Episodes

  • It’s the start of a new series, For The Love of Wonderful You! Spring is arriving and as the winter slumber fades away, many of us are likely plunging into a frantic pace of commitments and To Do lists. But we want to take a minute (or approximately 45-mins to an hour) to create a moment where we can punch the brakes a little. Let’s tell that inner taskmaster to relax; and instead, reflect on finding value in who we are in this moment, and how worthy we are just as we are. 
    Jen’s amazing conversation partner today is Amanda Doyle. Amanda is many amazing things but you may know her first and foremost as “Sister” on the We Can Do Hard Things Podcast with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach. She’s also part of the leadership team at Together Rising, the amazing non-profit that has raised over $50 million dollars and given it away to people all over the world who need it most. Amanda has been a longtime social justice advocate and she uses that knowledge to break down deep truths and complex social issues in all her conversations. Today, she reminds us that spending the energy to stay vulnerable in our relationships will always pay out.
    In this episode Jen and Amanda talk about:

    The struggle to be vulnerable and truly open up versus managing perceptions and staying in control in relationships

    How Amanda chose sobriety and the surprising clarity that emerged in her marriage, especially during the pandemic

    Jen’s journey to understanding herself and her avoidant tendencies in the aftermath of her divorce

    The profound impact of the "love letter" exercise guided by Liz Gilbert, where “Love's voice” urged Amanda to stop keeping score in life


    * * *
    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “A relationship has to have some equilibrium. The farther you go this way, the more the other person has to go the other way. What I have learned is that no one wants to be in those places.” - Amanda Doyle
    "What I have recently realized is that many people who either view themselves or are viewed in their relationships as control freaks; actually what they want the most is to not be in control of everything. They feel like they have to be in control of everything, because that is the way that they show their love is by taking care of things. But what they want more than anything else is for someone to step up and be like, 'I got this, I got you. You don't have to be in control of this.'" - Amanda Doyle
    “You are so fixated on the score of this life, but there is no score except the one in your head. You are exhausting yourself to death, trying to keep a score and figure out where you've won, and figure out where other people have disappointed you and slighted you and not met your expectations. But the score is fiction. We're not being scored." - Amanda Doyle
    “We think when we're giving up alcohol, we're giving up fun. And that's with good reason. It's like fully marketed--growing up, it's part of the narrative; anything that is fun also includes alcohol. But then I had the enormous blessing of being so close to Abby and Glennon's life and seeing that they were the most fun people with the most delightful, satisfying lives of anyone else I know. And none of that included alcohol." - Amanda Doyle

    Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle
    For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Glennon Doyle
    For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Abby Wambach
    For the Love Podcast Enneagram Threes Episode ft. Lisa Whelchel
    Untamed by Glennon Doyle
    We Can Do Hard Thing Episode ft. Liz Gilbert
    Letters From Love with Liz Gilbert (Substack)
    For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Sarah Bessey

    Guest’s Links:
    Together Rising Website
    Amanda’s Twitter
    Together Rising Facebook
    Together Rising Instagram

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube 

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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  • For this month’s book club pick, we are headed into 1970’s Montgomery, Alabama. Based on a true story, Take My Hand by Dolen Perkins-Valdez is an unflinching exploration of accountability and redemption through an era that was plagued with bias and coercion. The central character, Civil Townsend, is a complicated heroine fresh out of nursing school with a deep desire to make a difference in her Black community at the Montgomery Family Planning Clinic. During her first week on the job, Civil encounters two young girls who have their agency usurped by the current government authority which mandates that because they Black, poor, and disabled, the girls’ ability to have children should be curbed. Years later, Civil Townsend must reconcile her role and complicity in a story that must not be forgotten.What unfolds is a shocking and heartbreaking expose of how girls and women have had their agency taken away in ways that echo for generations. 

    Inspired by true events, Dolen recounts her research process and how she wanted to write “bruised characters” that evoke outrage and empathy. Jen and Dolen dive into Dolen’s history as a writer, the context of what was happening in 1973 when the case that this story is based broke into the public sphere, and all the themes of this book that make it impossible to put down. This is a story that must not be forgotten and Dolen writes it so you won’t ever forget.   
    * * *
    Guest’s Links:
    Dolen’s Website
    Dolen’s Facebook
    Dolen’s Twitter
    Dolen’s Instagram
    Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    Take My Hand by Dolen Perkins-Valdez
    Balm by Dolen Perkins-Valdez
    Wench by Dolen Perkins-Valdez
    Relp v. Weinberger Case
    Roe v. Wade Case
    Brotherless Night by V. V. Ganeshananthan
    Symphony of Secrets by Brendan Slocumb
    Happiness Falls by Angie Kim

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ 
    Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ 
    Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

    ï»żThe For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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  • We’re wrapping up our series featuring Black Trailblazers, and we couldn’t be more thrilled to have another guest who has broken barriers and basically created their own space as part of the national conversation, becoming the first black woman to anchor a cable primetime show. You may know her from her seat as a political analyst on MSNBC, or as the host of her own show, The ReidOut. It’s the amazing Joy Reid, everyone! Joy is a Harvard grad with a degree in visual and environmental studies and a concentration in documentary film. She also worked on the Florida branch of the Obama campaign. Her political writing prowess has landed her columns and articles everywhere; The New York Times, The New Republic, The Guardian, The Daily Beast, and The New Yorker, to name a few. PLUS she has a new book coming out that she gives us a special peek into; it’s the important and moving story of slain Civil rights pioneer Medgar Evers and his wife Myrlie, also an activist. It's not every day we get to talk to someone who brings the goods about so many profound topics—civil rights, the fight for reproductive rights, immigration issues, the sacrifice for equality—and she and Jen shy away from none of them here. Joy’s passion for calling out injustice and her unwavering belief that we all hold the keys to preserving our rights and our freedoms gives us a reason to believe that we all can be trailblazers toward sparking change in our world.* * *Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I'm very conscious of the fact that I'm the person that looks like the young black girls who come up to me, and it makes me feel very proud because I can represent. You really can only be what you can see.” - Joy Reid“The goal is when you get in the door, just pop it open. Get it open and let more people in. Diversity and equity and inclusion, they’ve become bad words. But they actually just mean we’re making America more what it was meant to be.” - Joy Reid“The immigrants who people are fighting hardest against are the people who are coming from Guatemala and El Salvador. They're also coming from China and Ukraine at this point. All they want to do is work. They are probably the hardest working people in America.” - Joy Reid“We keep trying to replace cheap labor. America could change that by paying people living wages. But Americans don't want to do that. We love the cheap labor because we love the cheap chicken sandwiches.” - Joy Reid“We have to save ourselves not just by voting for president, but by choosing the Senate in a different way, by choosing a different House of Representatives, by choosing different state legislatures, different governors. You need to start choosing not based on the party you're loyal to and the jersey you put on at age 18 when you became a Republican or a Democrat. You need to choose based on who's going to let you be free.” - Joy ReidJoy’s Links:The ReidOut - Joy’s show on MSNBCJoy Reid - InstagramJoy Reid - FacebookJoy Reid - X (Twitter)Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:The Man Who Sold America Trump And The Unraveling of The American Story - book by Joy ReidMedgar and Myrlie: Medgar Evers and the Love Story That Wakened America - book by Joy ReidT.R.M. Howard - Black Physician Who Created a System of Affordable Health CareLegislation in Georgia Regarding a Six Week Abortion BanMeet the Press News ShowGwen Ifill - American JournalistMedgar & Myrlie Evers - Civil Rights PioneersQueen & Slim - FilmManning Marable - Professor African American Studies/Columbia UniversityEmmitt Till’s Photo in Jet MagazineSharon McMahon InstagramConnect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • In this week’s episode in our Black Trailblazer’s series, Jen may have leveraged her connections, and we couldn’t be more thrilled that she did. We’re excited to have a wonderful sit down with the amazing Jerrie Merritt (who just happens to be Jen’s boyfriend Tyler’s mother–and a Black trailblazer in every sense of the word). In addition to being Tyler’s mom, Jerrie’s currently the Senior VP of Community Development at the Bank of Nevada in Las Vegas. Her banking career spans 40 plus years, where her job now is discerning funding for community development projects in the city of Las Vegas (as she puts it; “I’m the only person at the bank who’s actually giving money away!”). She’s been the board president of the Rape Crisis Center, The Urban Financial Services Coalition, and the Chamber of Commerce in Las Vegas. She even recently got to work with the NFL when the Super Bowl took place in Las Vegas to lead the dispersion of funds they made available to 14 worthy organizations, which she chose. In 2021, Jerrie received an actual Trailblazer Award, presented by the National Coalition of 100 Black Women from the Las Vegas Chapter. Jerrie takes us back to where it all began; in a tiny town called Eutaw, Alabama, where Jerrie didn’t see much modeled to her in the way of dreaming of who she could be, but through generosity of spirit and a willingness to take a chance, she started blazing her trail. It wasn’t without its challenges, coming up during a time where women–especially black women–were often shunned in business and leadership settings. Despite this, Jerrie paved a way, and in turn is paving a way for those coming up behind her. Her infectious courage, intertwined with a humility that hits you right in the feels—will incite a fire with all of us to leave our own indelible mark on this wild, beautiful world.
    * * *
    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “Always pursue your dreams because there is nothing that you as a woman, and especially as a black woman, cannot accomplish if you work at it.” - Jerrie Merritt
    “I'm blessed. I can't think of one thing that I have done in my career to get me here today that I had no control over. I always worked at trying to make sure that I was giving back [to the community] and to make sure that I made a difference, no matter what it was. From being a teller to being a regional president of a bank, I always wanted to do my best.” - Jerrie Merritt
    “My mom was a teenager when I was born. So I was raised between my mother's mother and my father's mother. Those two women gave me a foundation that made me who I am today.”
    “Now that I look back, I think I was so driven. I think that I didn’t know anything better than to expect that I deserved; what I saw everyone else have. I think if I took a moment and thought about it. I probably would not be here today. I think back to my mother and my grandmothers who always talked about, 'You can do better, you can do better.' That's what I always heard so I always knew that I could do better.” - Jerrie Merritt
    “I went into community development from actually being a regional president. I was only [at the company] six months before I realized that this was something I enjoyed. That was because I was the only person in the bank that was giving away money.” - Jerrie Merritt
    “When I enjoy what I do as much as I do, and at the same time I'm giving back in areas that I probably would give back to even if I didn't get paid to do it--that's how I got here.” - Jerrie Merritt

    Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    National Coalition of 100 Black Women, Vegas Chapter
    I Always Wanted to Be Somebody by Altea Gibson
    NFL Grant Programs

    Guest’s Links:
    Jerrie’s Website
    Jerrie’s Facebook

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube 

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • The world is on fire, and finding unexpected pathways that make sense of the world are hard won these days. And the people we look to, whether it’s through our socials, or the books we read, or even the news shows we watch, can do a lot to help ease us into whatever new madness faces us each morning.
    One of the people so many of us look to each day does an amazing job of just that; bringing grace, compassion and humor to her reporting each morning as part of the ‘Today’ Show. We’ve got Savannah Guthrie on the pod in this special bonus episode! Savannah’s as good and kind in person as you would think she is when watching her on the hosting couch for ‘Today.’ She and Jen discuss the unexpected path to her career in journalism–including taking a job at a station that closed two weeks after she started and her hard turn from journalism to go into law school. As she describes it, she ultimately “broke up” with the judge she was to start a clerkship with because she just couldn’t turn away from her dream of being a television journalist. Lucky for us!  
    From the reporting of incredibly heartbreaking stories (she sadly reveals she’s covered 10 school shootings in just one year) to bringing in levity (roller skating with Martha Stewart, anyone?) Savannah gives us the nitty gritty, decidedly unglamourous side of being a journalist, and the joys that sneak in all along the way. The deeper story is all contained in the release of her first book, “What God Mostly Does,” where she also shares a bigger picture look at her faith and convictions, and where she sees God show up all along the way.

    ***
    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “The 'Today' Show is an incredible institution. So to be a part of it for even one moment, I think we all kind of feel like momentary caretakers. The place is bigger than any individual. It's not just the people you see on TV. It's all the people behind the scenes.” - Savannah Guthrie

    “It's taken a long time to be comfortable in my own skin because when you're a Washington correspondent, it's so hardcore. And then you come to the 'Today' Show and you do real news interviews; you're interviewing the President or the Secretary of State or a grieving victim. It's real news. It's hard news. But then at 8:30, you might be roller skating with Martha Stewart on an elephant, you know?" - Savannah Guthrie

    “I never want to have thick skin, even though it hurts to not have thick skin. I want to have humanity. I want [the news] to touch me. But I'm not going to cry and carry on on air because I don't want to be a distraction. I'm supposed to be a professional, so it's just trying to thread that needle, it's just the deep resource of faith that has saved me time and time again in my private life and my professional life.” - Savannah Guthrie

    “I'm not writing [my book] from some mountain top where I figured it all out. I'm writing it from the depths. I'm writing it as the person who actually needs to read this book over and over again. Every day I have to pull myself out of the doldrums and remind myself; to keep going. No one's perfect.” - Savannah Guthrie

    ​​"God means something to a lot of people, and that is so exciting and heartening and beautiful. I hope this may spark a deeper conversation with a friend. Because when we really bond over those things, it's so meaningful; it's like our soul is just thirsting for that friendship and love." - Savannah Guthrie

    Resources:
    Mostly What God Does book by Savannah Guthrie
    Savannah’s Interview with Michael Jackson’s Doctor
    Savannah Reporting at Robb Elementary School after the Uvalde School Shooting
    Savannah Reporting the Departure of ‘Today’s” Matt Lauer
    ‘Today’ Show segment with Martha Stewart

    Guest Links:
    Instagram 
    Twitter
    Facebook

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • Women's sports are having a major moment right now, with basketball superstars like A'ja Wilson leading the charge. Considered one of the best WNBA players to ever grace the court, A'ja is using her towering influence to encourage not only young black girls, but all women who have felt the need to change who they are to fit in. A’ja fought to be herself every step of the way in her journey of becoming a G.O.A.T. in the WNBA. 
    In this uplifting conversation, A'ja Wilson opens up about the challenges she faced as a young black woman trying to be her authentic self. From an anecdote about confronting racism in 4th grade to the influential women who instilled self-love during her journey to the top, A'ja shares her playbook for empowerment with raw honesty. She discusses the motivation behind writing her new book "Dear Black Girls" and the importance of defining yourself instead of letting others do it for you.

    If you've ever felt the need to shrink yourself to fit in or been made to feel "other," A'ja's wisdom will inspire you to embrace all that makes you beautifully unique.
    * * *
    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “I think the biggest thing that is surprising to me is really how much work we put in. Other people see the end results as basic glory. They see that and they're like, 'Oh my God, they make it look flawless and just easy. But the most surprising thing is how many times we cry together, how many times we pray together, how many times we just come into the gym. It's like we don't have it, but we still find a way to dig it out.” - A’ja Wilson

    “I think the biggest thing I always like to say is (I even had it on my shoes); if you can see her you could be her.” - A’ja Wilson

    “The self-accountability that [my role models] instilled in me allows me to (instill) that into someone else. I can be that leader for my teammates and hold them accountable because I want you all to do the same for me” - A’ja Wilson

    “Young girls all the time are like, ‘What do I need to do to do this?’ I'm like, ‘Girl, just keep doing what you're doing. That's your path. I don't want you to think your path is going to look like mine.’ I think once you get past that, that's when that self-worth comes in. That's when you're like, ‘Okay, I'm good at where I am.’” - A’ja Wilson
    Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    Dear Black Girls: How to Be True to You
    Dawn Staley
    The Players’ Tribune
    Guest’s Links:
    A’ja’s Website
    A’ja’s Facebook
    A’ja’s Twitter
    A’ja’s Instagram

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube 

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • As we close out our For the Love of Facing Your Fears series, we're diving headfirst into a topic that we will all face at one point in our lives (hopefully later than sooner); our very own expiration dates. It’s one of humanity’s most universal yet daunting fears, and we’ve got a compassionate and experienced guide to walk us through the kinds of things we might wonder about, and the beautiful unexpected moments that can accompany our final days. Hadley Vlahos is a hospice nurse whose life experiences and work have provided her with profound insights into the final chapter of our lives. Hadley opens up about her personal journey through struggles and grief, her entry into nursing as a calling, and her perspectives on the beauty that can be found even in our final moments. Her book, "The In-Between: Unforgettable Encounters During Life's Final Moments," encapsulates powerful stories from the bedside of the dying, some of which she shares with us, including the tranquility of the in-between and the serendipitous moments bringing peace to those passing. With over 1.4 million followers captivated by her TikTok narratives, Hadley’s perspective takes the edge off the many worries we may have about the end-of-life process. Join us for a truly poignant exchange that affirms life's beauty—and its beautiful conclusion.
    * * *
    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “Most people think [death] is very sudden. There was a recent study that over 80% of what we're shown on TV is very violent and sudden. In reality, the way I compare it is to birth; just like how our bodies know how to give birth and they know how to grow a baby, the majority of time with death, our bodies do know how to die.” - Hadley Vlahos
    “For someone to say, ‘You know what, I'm going to I'm going to go home and I'm going to be with my family and I would like to remain comfortable.’ I think that there's a lot of power in that, and I don't see it as giving up at all. I see it as taking your fate into your own hands.” - Hadley Vlahos
    “I wish more people would just talk to each other about the end. Surprisingly, even though someone's in hospice, I still see a lot of hesitancy to talk about the end. When they can do that, I find that patients feel a lot more peace around the end and what is coming.” - Hadley Vlahos
    “What am I doing today that I would be excited to be telling my hospice nurse about one day? And that has given me an incredible drive and passion for life that I just totally didn't expect.” - Hadley Vlahos
    Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    The In-Between: Unforgettable encounters during life’s final moments by Hadley Vlahos
    Five Wishes
    Guest’s Links:
    Hadley’s Website
    Hadley’s Instagram
    Hadley’s Facebook
    Hadley’s Twitter
    Hadley’s TikTok
    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube
    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • Calling all book lovers, we’ve got another great entry in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club this month, and we’ve also got a good friend of Jen’s sitting in the author’s seat–none other than the amazing Kate Bowler. Kate walks us through her highly personal medical journey, as told through No Cure For Being Human and Other Truths. Kate shares the profound realization that her life depended on becoming an empowered participant in her healthcare rather than a passive recipient. As she waded through her stage 4 cancer diagnosis, the endless visits to the doctors, along with many tests and treatments, she reflected on how her willingness to be initially compliant toward the process led to a delayed choice of asserting herself toward receiving better care and choices toward her treatment. Kate and Jen also delve into the cultural fabric of American aggressive individualism, which preaches that achievements are solitary pursuits and any failure is a personal shortcoming. In a world where visible piety and the power of positive thinking are often conflated with divine approval, they dissect the harmful myths that set us up for inevitable disillusionment. With unguarded honesty, Kate sheds light on how the pressure to continuously climb the ladder of success can blind us to the presence of divine companionship in our darkest times.
    * * *
    Guest’s Links:
    Kate’s Website
    Kate’s Facebook
    Kate’s Twitter
    Kate’s Instagram
    Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    Bonus Series: Quarantine Queens and Kings ft. Kate Bowler
    Everything Happens with Kate Bowler
    Blessed: A History of The American Prosperity Gospel by Kate Bowler
    No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear)
    Focus on the Family
    Jen’s Evolving Faith Sermon
    Run Towards the Danger by Sarah Polley
    Women Talking
    Acceptance: A Memoir by Emi Nietfeld
    Tell Me Everything: A Memoir by Minka Kelly

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ 
    Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ 
    Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • We’ve got another empowering episode in our Facing Your Fears series, and boy, do we have a fear that hits close to home for a lot of us – confronting those tough conversations we'd rather dance around than dive into. If the thought of confrontation has you squirming in your seat, you’re in good company. But what if we flipped the script and viewed these moments of truth-telling as acts of honor, steps towards healing and improvement?
    Jen invites the insightful Dr. Rick Hanson, celebrated psychologist, acclaimed author, and speaker extraordinaire, to dissect our dread of difficult chats. Dr. Hanson is on a mission to transform confrontation into a finely honed skill that fosters lasting well-being and better relationships. His wisdom will not only challenge your perceptions but provide you with the practical tools to embrace these crucial conversations with confidence.
    Don't miss out on this transformative discussion that could redefine how you approach confrontation, making your connections healthier, and you, happier.
    * * *
    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “Research shows that relationships are made from interactions. The gradual weight of interactions, for better or worse, over time shapes the relationship, and interactions are built from little turn-taking back and forth.” - Dr. Rick Hanson
    “It's so important, these foundations to care for yourself deep down. What are your aims in your relationships, and can you build up your sense that you deserve people to treat you well? That's good. If you have choices and they don't treat you well, it's your right to shrink the size of the relationship.” - Dr. Rick Hanson
    “[When communicating with difficult people] know what you want. Then, as much as you can, try to boil it down to something you can ask for that's clear and specific if that's what you really want. Then second, ask for it. Find a way to say what you want.” - Dr. Rick Hanson
    “If you're going to have that conflict, get prepared; talk about it with some people. Get some advice. Write out keywords or sentences or phrases or just kind of work out a rough draft to clarify things.” - Dr. Rick Hanson“We don't have total control over the love that we receive. However, we do have control over the compassion, kindness, friendliness, respect, and love that we flow outward. So getting in touch with the heart is a neurologically, and biologically grounded way to help yourself feel less scared before you go into confrontation.” - Dr. Rick Hanson
    “Interactions often go sideways when they speed up. Simply, notice in your mind when you start accelerating and you start talking faster. You must deliberately slow down, sit back, and exhale.” - Dr. Rick Hanson
    Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    Mother Nurture by Dr. Rick Hanson
    Nonviolent Communication by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD and Deepak Chopra
    Making Great Relationships by Dr. Rick Hanson

    Guest’s Links:
    Dr. Hanson’s Website
    Dr. Hanson’s Facebook
    Dr. Hanson’s Twitter
    Dr. Hanson’s Instagram

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website 
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • As we continue our series on facing our fears, we introduce a fear that many of us may not talk about comfortably, but in reality, we are all facing; the fact that we are aging. In case this is something that moves you into a state of deep denial, or perhaps you are employing a world of efforts (including for-profit products and practices) to stave off the inevitable progression, or even if you are just taking it all in stride, we all are subject to what the world at large has to say about it and—mostly–it’s not positive. A pervasive ageist attitude infiltrates the media we consume, our own friend groups, and even what we tell ourselves consciously and subconsciously about aging. We come by it naturally, though–with deeply ingrained stereotypes and discriminatory practices that extend everywhere from the workplace to the bedroom. Our guest this week shares how she went from being an apprehensive boomer to becoming a pro-aging radical as she dismantles myths and debunks the portrayal of older people as societal burdens; with years of research under her belt, she dreams of an aging-friendly world. Ashton Applewhite is the author of “This Chair Rocks–A Manifesto Against Ageism,” and she makes it her life’s work to expose ageist behavior, and educate us all as to how we can stop giving aging a bad rap. Jen and Ashton take an eye-opening look at ageism as a form of bias as unacceptable as any other, and give us actionable steps to ignite “age pride,” keeping in mind that aging is an integral part of our life journey, not a condition to be cured or concealed. If you’re fretfully staring down the next decade of life with fear and denial, consider the possibility that being stressed about aging actually can cause the very things we fear about aging. Ashton sums it up like this; “If you learn about aging, you will be less afraid. That knowledge and information is going to confer all kinds of protection about aging as well as you possibly can.”
    * * *
    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    "Almost everything I thought I knew about what it was going to be like to be significantly older was way off base or flat out wrong, or not nuanced enough.There are plenty of legitimate reasons to worry about the years ahead, but our fears are so much out of proportion to reality. We never hear the other side of the story. I mean, how come no one actually wants to go back to their youth?" - Ashton Applewhite

    “When we blame everything on age, then that in itself becomes a hugely profitable industry; all the supplements, all this anti-aging, eternal life stuff--it does not work, and it's not good for you physically or psychologically.” - Ashton Applewhite

    “If younger women were friends with older women, they would see how coming into our own is a source of enormous power and satisfaction. If more of us were friends with younger women, we wouldn't have this envy.” - Ashton Applewhite

    “All prejudice operates to pit people against each other. And if we're squabbling, we're not going to challenge these larger forces.” - Ashton Applewhite

    “Aging is not something sad that old people do. Aging is something we embark on the day we are born and if you get the memo, you can avoid stepping on this hamster wheel of fear and denial.” - Ashton Applewhite

    Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    This Chair Rocks by Ashton Applewhite
    Let’s End Ageism - Ashton’s TED Talk
    Old School Anti-Ageism Clearing House
    Yo, Is This Ageist - Ashton’s Blog

    Guest’s Links:
    Ashton’s Website
    Ashton’s Facebook
    Ashton’s Twitter
    Ashton’s Instagram
    Ashton’s Blog
    Ashton’s LinkedIn

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • We all have things that scare us. And it’s not because we’re doing life wrong; fear, in and of itself, is a normal emotion. So then what do we do with it? That's really what this series, For the Love of Facing Your Fears, is all about. Today’s guest will be walking us through some strategies on facing our fears in a healthy way by showing us what habits mentally strong people employ in their lives. Amy Morin is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author and she's devoted her whole career to the exploration of what it means to be mentally strong. Her TEDx talk, “The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong” has been lauded as one of the most impactful TEDx videos to date. Amy’s personal journey of loss juxtaposes with Jen’s recent experience of starting over again after 26 years of marriage–and they both discuss how fear played into their lives during these periods of grief and loss. Amy gives actionable, easy to employ behaviors that can set us on the course toward conquering our fears–no matter how debilitating. 

    * * *

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:

    “It's so easy to get caught up in that idea of ‘I don't want my life to be different because I don't want to make it any worse and if it's going to be different, it's going to be hard to adapt to.’” - Amy Morin

    “Our fear meters in life are often super faulty. We think if something feels scary, we shouldn't do it and then we don't. I lived a lot of my life like that. Well, that's the perfect recipe for depression, because you live a really safe life and you don't go out there and figure out how exciting things can be and how much you're capable of doing.” - Amy Morin

    “When our fear runs really high, our intelligence runs really low. You want to balance that and take notice of how scared you feel right now? Fear will cause you to overestimate the likelihood that everything's going to go wrong. It will cause you to underestimate your own capabilities so you’ve got to raise your logic and balance out that fear a little bit.” - Amy Morin

    “Taking back your power is all about just stepping back and realizing these are my choices. This is my day, my life. How do I want to spend it? Do I need to set a boundary? Do I need to at least change my language so that I'm not saying other people are forcing me to do something, as opposed to just recognizing I don't want to do this, but I'm going to do it anyway?” - Amy Morin


    “Mentally strong people don't feel the world owes them anything.” - Amy Morin


    Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong - Amy Morin’s TEDx Talk
    13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do by Amy Morin (Article)
    13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do (Book)

    Guest’s Links:
    Amy’s Website
    Amy’s Facebook
    Amy’s Twitter
    Amy’s Instagram

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
    Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
    Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • Isn’t it fun to be part of the in-crowd? Where you can connect with people who are of like minds and spirits, where everyone seems to be headed in the same direction? But what if you start having nagging questions as an insider that don’t seem to get resolved, and even worse, are met with disdain or fear from other members of your group? This can be a scary place for so many of us. For the purposes of our conversation today–we’re talking about when it happens in religious spaces. For years, singer/songwriter Derek Webb was very much on the “inside” of what was happening in Christendom as a top selling, award winning Christian artist, songwriter and worship leader. It took a few disruptions to his own life that sent him down the road to evaluating his faith, his beliefs and how he wanted to move forward with the new information he’d gained. Now, decidedly an “outsider” who tries to still take up space in the Christian zeitgeist to potentially model a different way of living, Derek has gone on to record solo albums and also work with artists that aren’t typical to Christian music–like drag queen Flamy Grant—with whom, incidentally, he attended the Gospel Music Dove Awards in 2023 (and who also had a number one Christian song pop up on the charts), with the intention of making people who are Christian and LGBTQ+IA feel less alone. In this episode, Jen and Derek compare their journeys as “peaceful disruptors,” what it cost them and what they gained in the process

    * * *
    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “So now here I am, 20 years [after going solo] and I'm spoiled into thinking that I can write songs about things no one else is writing songs about, and that's kind of my thing now.” - Derek Webb

    “I'd been so obsessed on thinking about, obsessed on my language about God, that I forgot to apply it to the way I behave in the world, the way I treat other people, which is ethics. And I realized, 'Oh no, how did I miss that?' As I stand before you as the ringing symbol, the clanging gong when I've got all the right words and none of the love, none of the fruit.” - Derek Webb

    “I had to rebuild at almost 40, I had to rebuild a whole life and reckon with the fallout, at least my part of the responsibility of some real hurt. I caused a lot of people who I love to hurt, the people I love more than anybody in the world. And it humbled me.” - Derek Webb

    “Flamy Grant and Semler were not the first two queer artists to have number-one albums and singles on the Christian music charts. It has happened so many times over the years, but by people who are closeted and people who live in tremendous fear in that space because they know they will be immediately rejected, excluded, marginalized, out.” - Derek Webb

    Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    Caedmon’s Call 
    Aaron Tate’s Website 
    Second Baptist Church 
    She Must and Shall Go Free - Album by Derek Webb
    Essential Records
    Third Day 
    Jars Of Clay 
    Plumb 
    The Prayer of Jabez 
    Wedding Dress by Derek Webb 
    Grace Point Church 
    The Jesus Hypothesis 
    Boys Will Be Girls Music Video
    Grace Semler Baldridge
    Flamy Grant Instagram
    Drag Queen at Christian Music Awards Sparks Backlash (Newsweek Article)

    Guest’s Links:
    Derek’s Website - https://www.derekwebb.com/home
    Derek’s Facebook - http://facebook.com/derekwebb
    Derek’s Instagram - http://instagram.com/derekwebb
    Derek’s TikTok - http://tiktok.com/@derekwwebb
    Derek’s Twitter - http://twitter.com/derekwebb
    Derek’s YouTube - http://youtube.com/user/derekwebb
    Derek’s Patreon - http://patreon.com/derekwebb

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
    Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
    Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • Do you ever feel like you don’t have all the answers and information you need around your very own body? Are there beliefs or “facts” you might have learned that maybe aren’t actually centered around truth or science? Perhaps you’ve entered various seasons of your life as a female (menstruation, fertility, childbirth, hormone fluctuation, perimenopause, menopause) where you’ve felt like your concerns were dismissed or you weren’t given the tools, knowledge or treatment to help you navigate these season as well as you’d like. Whether you avidly seek knowledge about your body, or you’re bumping up against walls in what has been, historically, a lopsided research culture where male health has been more highly prioritized, we’ve got a guest today who is determined to correct that inequity with scienfitic and experiential information, research and active destigmatization. Dr. Jen Gunter is an obsetritican gynecologist and a bestselling author (The Vagina Bible, The Menopause Manifesto) who has made it her goal in life to “fix the internet” regarding information about women’s bodies and correcting the misinformation that runs rampant there; long held myths that cause fear, stress and even shame around our female phsyiology. Dr. Gunter debunks common misconceptions around our periods, our hymens (fyi, it’s not a “freshness” seal), synthetic hormones, menopause symptoms and more. Bottom line: you deserve to know about your body, and this conversation opens the door to finding true and accurate information that will help dismiss the fears you may have around all the seasons of your female health experience.  

    * * *

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “I think the average high schooler probably graduates knowing more about frog biology than human biology. No shade to animal physiology. It's super important. However, high school should also be teaching you more practical information as well as things to advance you academically.” - Dr. Jen Gunter

    “People deserve to know how their body works.” - Dr. Jen Gunter

    “If you don't have that foundation of the menstrual cycle and you don’t know how it all works, it's harder to understand what's going on with menopause” - Dr. Jen Gunter

    “Basically, menopause is puberty in reverse." - Dr. Jen Gunter

    “If you could only do one intervention for a healthy menopause, it would not be estrogen. It would be exercise. Exercise touches every domain of every single thing that's going to be on your bothersome list. Exercise improves sleep, exercise reduces dementia. Exercise reduces heart disease. The only thing that it doesn't help is hot flashes.” - Dr. Jen Gunter

    “Every single hormone that you get, whether it's a pharmaceutical estrogen or it's something from a compounding pharmacy, comes from the exact same plant. It’s all from the same source.” - Dr. Jen Gunter

    “You're more than your menstrual cycle. You're awesome whether you have estrogen or not. It has nothing to do with your awesomeness. It really doesn't.” - Dr. Jen Gunter



    Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    Guardian Article about Dr. Jen Gunter
    The Vagina Bible by Dr. Jen Gunter
    Menopause Manifesto by Dr. Jen Gunter
    Jensplaining - Dr. Jen Gunter’s Amazon Prime Series
    2020 NAMS Media Award from the North American Menopause Society Recipients
    “Why can’t we talk about periods” - Dr. Jen Gunters 2020 Ted Talk
    Body Stuff with Dr. Jen Gunter
    Blood: The Science, Medicine, and Mythology of Menstruation by Dr. Jen Gunter
    The Vajenda - Dr. Jen Gunter’s Substack Newsletter 
    The Preemie Primer: A Complete Guide for Parents of Premature Babies--from Birth through the Toddler Years and Beyond by Dr. Jen Gunter 
    Ensure Meal Replacement

    Guest’s Links:
    Dr. Gunter’s Website
    Dr. Gunter’s Twitter
    Dr. Gunter’s Facebook
    Dr. Gunter’s Instagram

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter 
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube 

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • How often do you stop and think about how well your sense of smell is working? Or how well you’re hearing? When was the last time you really thought about your vision and how it’s impacting the way you interact with the world? We’re grateful today for a friend of the show who’s returning to remind us that when we tune into our body and senses, we can start to shape our sensory world to best fit who we are. And when we are comfortable in that world, peace is more easily attained. Gretchen Rubin has been studying happiness and human nature for over a decade. Her book The Happiness Project spent more than two years on the New York Times bestseller list, and she's been featured in numerous media outlets, including The New York Times, Oprah's SuperSoul Sunday, and Good Morning America. Her latest book, Life in Five Senses, is a thought-provoking exploration of how we experience the world around us through sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. 
    * * *
    Thank you to our Sponsors!
    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “There's so much power in the Five Senses, and it's everything from evoking memories to increasing your productivity to feel.” - Gretchen Rubin
    “We can go through our bodies to get to our minds.” - Gretchen Rubin
    “It's this mindfulness, this getting back into our body; we start to tune into these things and then we start to be able to shape our sensory world to suit ourselves.” - Gretchen Rubin
    “You can turn to your senses and find new creative ways to tap into your senses to help you draw closer to other people.” - Gretchen Rubin 
    Guest’s Links:
    Website: https://gretchenrubin.com/
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gretchenrubin/
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GretchenRubin 
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/gretchenrubin 
    Gretchen on FTL Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/sg/podcast/small-steps-to-a-happier-life-gretchen-rubin/id1258388821?i=1000426816646
    Life in Five Senses book: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/life-in-five-senses-gretchen-rubin/1142221169
    Happiness Project book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-happiness-project/
    Better Than Before book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/better-than-before/
    Outer Order, Inner Calm book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/outer-order-inner-calm/
    The Four Tendencies book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-four-tendencies/
    Happier with Gretchen Rubin Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/happier-with-gretchen-rubin/id969519520
    Neglected Senses quiz: https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-five-senses-quiz/
    Therapy dough: https://www.healthline.com/health/diy-aromatherapy-playdough-for-stress
    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/ 
    Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ 
    Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
    Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • Wrapping up another amazing and somewhat wild year here on the For the Love Podcast. For this special episode, Jen is flying solo to share her thoughts on what 2023 meant to her, what pinnacles were met, what didn’t go so well, and the many things add to the gratefulness list. From celebrating long time friendships and new friendships, to milestones with her kids, to being in a relationship as a “girlfriend,” to going through perimenopause and becoming gluten free, Jen recounts the blessings and the challenges 2023 brought to the table. And she gives us a peek into the process of writing for her brand new book that you won’t want to miss. For those of you who are struggling to find things to be grateful about over the last year, we’re here for you too. If you’re sludging through the remainder of the year, digging out of it a spoonful of dirt at a time, we’re here to remind you to keep going. Everything you're doing, every teeny little moment holds within it grace or hope or strength or outright joy, and every single moment matters. And you, our listener, matter to us. On our gratitude lists, you are at the top–and we look forward to more good, hard, and worthwhile stories to share with you. Thank you for making this show a vibrant hub and a soft place to land for us all.


    * * *

    Thank you to our sponsors!

    Thought-Provoking Quotes
    “I'm just trying to figure out what it means to do good in the world and be a good neighbor and leave something of a loving legacy.” - Jen Hatmaker
    “The older we get, the more I think I am realizing that our adult friendships is a love story. It is a love story as important and true and profound as any romantic story or a marriage. It's just as precious.” - Jen Hatmaker
    “Guys, I know this is earth shattering, this is groundbreaking information I'm about to tell you, but apparently it is good for our bodies to move in any way— exercise and strength training and core work. Apparently that's good for us. Also, it's highly linked to the reduction of perimenopausal symptoms.” - Jen Hatmaker
    "I just feel proud that my life crumbled to such shreds, but it didn't break me. I still was smart and I was still here, I was still alive and I still had goodness. And the fact that I could travel alone and enjoy my own company and not be self-conscious just felt like a stake in the ground, like, 'okay, all right, I'm doing okay!' And I had it in me to survive this and to even recover." - Jen Hatmaker

    Resources Mentioned in This Episode
    Sarah Bessey’s Instagram
    Kristen Howerton’s Instagram
    Sarah Goodfellow’s Instagram
    Jamie Wright’s Instagram
    Tara Livesay’s Instagram
    For the Love Podcast: Season 44: Letters from MeCamp 2022
    Jen Hatmaker Cruise
    Ruth Bader Ginsburg: In Her Own Words
    Come As You Are: Revised and Updated: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life by Emily Nagoski
    The Jen Hatmaker Book Club
    For the Love Podcast Season 40: ELEPHANTS IN THE ROOM PART 5: UNDOING THE STIGMA OF MENOPAUSE WITH CHERYL BRIDGES JOHNS
    Tyler Merritt’s Instagram
    Dream Again Tour
    MeCourse

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
    Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
    Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

    The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • Focusing on all things related to peace this holiday season, we’re pleased to present a special bonus episode from The Meditative Story Podcast, featuring our very own Jen Hatmaker. In this episode, Ryan, host of the Meditative Story Podcast, guides the listener with meditative prompts and music while Jen tells a story from her days growing up in church where she witnessed concrete power dynamics play out between men, women, husbands and wives. Jen speaks to how doubtful she is that she’ll ever be allowed to have a true voice in the community she loves so much. As we follow her years-long journey into leadership, she shares the realization she finally came to; we can all be powerful in many ways, and not just in the ways we've been taught. Grab a little zen and reflection during these busy days—with Jen and this special episode from our friends at the Meditative Story Podcast. 

    Thank you to our sponsors!
    Storyworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/forthelove
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    Thought-Provoking Quotes:

    “There may be someone in your life who expresses themselves in ways that you feel you never could. Through clothes. Their vibe. What was it about them that excited you? What would it be to allow yourself a bit of their energy?” - Ryan from the Meditative Story Podcast
    “We all grow up with certain templates. Society or tradition gives us ideas about what we're capable of and how much power we are allowed to have. So we take our inner alliance and tell ourselves, well, that's just how it has to be. But when we dare to really take up space. When we learn from liberated, confident people in our lives, we find that we're capable of more than we ever knew.” - Jen Hatmaker
    “Esther [from the Bible] not just a heroine or a fairy tale princess in a castle. She's a real person. This stirs something inside me. Have I been seeing myself as only one dimensional? My heart is beating. There's a distant rattling in me. I feel that inner lion I've kept at bay my whole life. And I want to let that lion out. I want to lead. I want to take up space. I want to be a writer.” - Jen Hatmaker

    Guest’s Links:
    Meditative Story Podcast Website
    Instagram
    Facebook
    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
    Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
    Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
    Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

    For the Love is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

    To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • In our ongoing pursuit of peace at the end of the year, Jen sits down with Father James Martin, one of America's most beloved spiritual leaders and a New York Times bestselling author. Known for his thought-provoking books "The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything" and "Learning to Pray," Jen and Father Martin talk about the premises in Father Martin’s new book "Come Forth, the Promise of Jesus's Greatest Miracle," which tells the iconic story of the raising of biblical Lazarus from the dead in a way we guarantee you’ve never heard before. If you’ve been in therapy for any time at all, you might have been advised to let go of things that don’t serve you, and lo and behold, this ancient story of Jesus calling Lazarus from the tomb has wisdom and inspiration for today, and promises to leave you pondering on what you might leave behind in your own tomb for a new life.
    * * *

    Thought-Provoking Quotes

    “That's one of the reasons I write books to just say to people; being on a path is a human thing and you can read about it if you don't want to talk about it. Other people are going through it and have been through it way before you.” - Father James Martin

    “The Gospels should be disorienting. God wants to shake us up a little bit. And there's a great line from the Catholic activist and writer Dorothy Day that 'God comforts the afflicted but also afflicts the comfortable,' which I love, and it should be disorienting. It should shake us up. Jesus was pretty disorienting.” - Father James Martin

    "If you have difficulties with one or another way of interpreting the Gospels, you have to say, look-- Jesus constantly is with the poor. It's not ambiguous. 'Blessed are the poor.' I mean, you can't get any more blunt than that, but it's hard for us because it kind of challenges our status quo." - Father James Martin

    “Until we can let go of things that prevent us from loving God and getting closer to God, we won't be at peace as much as we could be.” - Father James Martin


    Resources Mentioned in This Episode
    The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything by Father James Martin
    Learning to Pray: A Guide for Everyone by Father James Martin
    Transgender People Can Be Baptized Catholic Reuters Article 
    Mary Karr  
    The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton
    Jesuits
    Six Jesuit Martyrs in El Salvador
    WWJD (Wiki)
    Augustine of Hippo
    Come Forth, the Promise of Jesus's Greatest Miracle by Father James Martin
    Guest’s Links
    Instagram
    Twitter 
    Facebook

    Connect with Jen!
    Jen’s website 
    Jen’s Instagram
    Jen’s Twitter 
    Jen’s Facebook
    Jen’s YouTube

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  • In our ongoing pursuit of peace during the holidays, we’re tackling something this week that we might forget others are facing during the holidays (or perhaps we are trying to trudge through ourselves); grief. Everyone's grief journey is unique, but during a season where “joy” is being pushed 24/7, our grief can feel like it’s 10 times its normal size as we struggle to “show up” in the ways we usually do during the holidays. Our guests this week are here to remind us of several important things, including; it’s okay to grieve during the holidays, and it's perfectly okay to take it slow, to pause, to rest. There's no "right" way to grieve. And that’s why we’re grateful to have some return visitors to the show, the hosts of the Good Mourning Podcast - Sal and Im. Sally Douglas and Imogene Carn met in 2019 after their mothers suddenly passed away just months apart. Because of their shared grief experience, they met in a grief group and decided to launch a podcast together. They know that grief is intense. It hits you physically, emotionally, spiritually. And even during the holidays, during what should be happy moments. The community they’ve created around the topic of grieving brings people together during what can be a really lonely time and reminds them, they’re not alone. There are others out there who know exactly what you're going through. And it's okay to reach out, to seek help, and to take care of your mental health.Sal and Im give us coping tools, show us how to establish boundaries when we’re grieving and also remind us; the pain does lessen over time. This is your journey, and you get to decide the pace. It's not a race. It's a process. So, take it one day at a time. You're doing just fine.* * *Thought-Provoking Quotes“The festive season is a time when there can be a lot of pressure to put on a brave face and to be happy and joyful. But if you are experiencing any type of loss, it's really hard, it can be really lonely and it can really amplify the things that you are missing. It's tough. I think just give yourself that permission to feel and know that you don't have to put on a brave face all the time.” - Sally Douglas“It's really important to honor wherever you're at and try not to judge yourself. If you feel like you want to slow down or you just want to sleep for an entire day, even if it's Christmas Day, honor that and just let yourself be wherever you are in that moment without judging yourself.” - Imogen Carn“We hear a lot from grievers in our community that the second year is harder than the first year. And that can take a lot of people by surprise because we anticipate that all the firsts are going to be harder, but it takes a long time to even process such a significant loss that's happened in your life.” - Imogen Carn“It's a tough job supporting someone you love who is in deep pain and I think often we just want to fix them and we can't. We offer up all these cliches and platitudes to try and make them feel better. If there's anything that you take away from this conversation, please try to avoid saying platitudes.” - Imogen Carn“I volunteer every Christmas morning at a lunch for people who are homeless. It's giving back, but it’s also something that's outside of you and your grief and it's a way to meet people. It's a way to connect, it's a sense of purpose that can be a really good thing to do if you are struggling. Maybe it's volunteering an hour of your time and you might be surprised at how that does help.” - Sally DouglasResources Mentioned in This Episode:For the Love Episode with Sal & Im Good Mourning by Sally Douglas and Imogen CarnThe Golden BachelorGuest’s Links:The Good Mourning PodcastSal & Im’s WebsiteSal & Im’s InstagramSal & Im’s YoutubeSal & Im’s FacebookConnect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • Are you one of those people that says “I’ll rest when I’m dead?” We can relate. As busy people–partners, parents, career drivers, caretakers and a host of other hats we wear, rest seems like an elusive and sometimes impossible task–especially during the holidays. To kick off our new series, For the Love of Peace, we’re here to tell you–you need and deserve rest. And lest you think rest is just getting 8 hours of sleep at night (wouldn’t we all love that), it’s more. We need emotional, creative, physical and mental rest, just to name a few. The stats are real; when we don’t rest we have increased cortisol levels, which then add to inflammation, which then add to every type of metabolic disorder that’s out there–from high blood pressure to cancer, to stroke, diabetes and more. It’s obviously important to figure out how to fix this rest deficit–but how? There is already a shortage of time for our overloaded to-do lists, not to mention being there for family, friends, work and exercise (if we even have time to fit that in). Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith has spent her career as an internal medicine physician, looking at the ways different kinds of rest are the little levers we can pull that renew our bodies, brains and souls. And good news–some of them only take 5 minutes to fit into our lives. When we put these rest practices into our lives, we avoid burnout, health issues and depression. Before you get to the end of seeing your own value to take care of yourself, consider Dr. Saundra’s advice and begin to respect the place that rest has in your life. By allowing it to sustain you, you’ll experience other areas of life much more joyfully.You Deserve Time To Rest with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith
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    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “When we put all of our buckets into sleep, we're in essence canceling out all of the other things I just mentioned because you can't get creative rest with your eyes closed in the bed, and you can't get emotional rest in the bed with your eyes closed. There are certain types of rest that you cannot hope to accomplish restoring with simply sleeping.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith
    “If you're someone who has a tendency to do excessive multitasking–you have 15 to 20 tabs open on your computer, you're jumping from one thing to the next, or you're in and out of your inbox all day long–multitasking has a tendency to train the brain not to recall things because why should it have to recall something if it can just open up another tab?” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith 
    “High levels of sensory input can lead to sensory overload syndrome. A lot of us don't recognize our body's response. It's just a natural response to sensory overload. It's no different than if you have a two-year-old and you take them to a birthday party, they're good the first hour, but then like an hour and a half later they're screaming their head off or they're banging their feet on the ground– they’re experiencing sensory overload.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith
    Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    Restorasis - https://www.restorasis.com/
    Sacred Rest; Recover Your Life, Renew Your Energy, Restore Your Sanity by Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith - https://amzn.to/46BqUU2
    Rest Quiz - https://www.restquiz.com/quiz/rest-quiz-test/
     
    Guest’s Links:
    Website - https://www.drdaltonsmith.com/
    Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drdaltonsmith
    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrSaundraDaltonSmith/
    Twitter - https://bit.ly/47RTySa
     
    Connect with Jen! Jen’s website
    Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter
    Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube

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  • We’re bringing a close to our series on therapy, and we couldn’t be happier to have Kelly Corrigan with us to have a candid conversation with Jen around their thoughts on therapy, including when it first entered their awareness, and now, in a more enlightened age, how the next generation has more access to therapeutic help. Even as recently as 20-30 years ago, therapy was not talked about a lot in public. For Jen and Kelly, they didn’t see it modeled from their parents, it wasn’t mentioned in their church circles, and only earth shattering situations seemed to require it. But as they look back, they realized there were people in their lives who were likely touched by a host of mental health issues–like panic attacks, depression, anxiety–and they usually suffered in silence while others wondered why they were so “moody” or “different.” Now that therapy is enjoying its day in the zeitgeist, we can all benefit from the openness around mental health that is evolving daily. Kelly’s a dear friend of Jen’s and has been on our show numerous times–winning the coveted title of most appearances on our pod! Besides offering wonderful conversation and amazing insight here, Kelly is the host of her own podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, and is the author of several amazing books including Tell Me More, Glitter and Glue, and The Middle Place. She also hosts a show called “Tell Me More” for NPR, and she and Jen discuss the value of the statement “tell me more” when relating to others about our deepest thoughts and feelings.
    * * *
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    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    "In suffering there's this mistaken idea that you are lonely in your suffering--that you're alone in that people don't know. All that reassurance when we say, 'Got that, yep. I had a thing.' It makes it undeniable that no one is uniquely afflicted, and to remove that from suffering is to lighten it." - Kelly Corrigan
    “The fact is that I am deeply attached to my people and their happiness. It matters to me above all else, and if the only way not to feel that is to detach, then I'm not signing up. This means that when I'm feeling worried, it means I'm crazy about you.” - Kelly Corrigan
     Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
    Tell Me More Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I’m Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-More-Stories-Learning/dp/0399588396/ 
    Glitter and Glue: A Memoir by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Glitter-Glue-Memoir-Kelly-Corrigan/dp/0345532856/ 
    The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan - https://bit.ly/49Gsxmt 
    For the Love of Conversations - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-43/ 
    Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan - https://www.pbs.org/show/tell-me-more-kelly-corrigan/
    Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast
    American Utopia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Utopia_(film)
    Guest’s Links:
    Kelly’s Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/
    Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en
    Kelly’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/corrigankelly?lang=en
    Kelly’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kellycorriganauthor/
    Connect with Jen! Jen’s website
    Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter
    Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube

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