United States

A weekly conversation with a non-fiction writer about how they got their start, how they work, and how they tell stories. Co-produced by Longform and The Atavist.


Episode 241: David Grann  

David Grann is a staff writer at The New Yorker. His new book is Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI.

“The more stories I reported over time, the more I just realized there are parts of the story I can’t always get to. You know, unless this is a reality show and there’s 18 cameras in every room, and people [talk] before they sleep, and maybe you have some mind-bug in their brain for their unconscious, there are just parts you’re just not gonna know. You get as close as you can. And so the struggle to me is to get as close as I can, to peel it back as close as I can, but understanding that there will be elements, there will be pieces, that will remain lingering doubts.”

Thanks to Stamps.com, Squarespace, and MailChimp for sponsoring this week's episode.

@DavidGrann davidgrann.com Grann on Longform [00:45] David Grann on the Longform Podcast [01:45] Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI (Doubleday • 2017) [14:15] Stoner [22:15] Scrivener [37:00] "The Yankee Comandante" (New Yorker • May 2012) [38:45] The Hill [43:15] "Trial By Fire" (New Yorker • Sep 2009) [1:03:45] Absalom, Absalom! (William Faulkner • Vintage • 1990) [1:03:45] "How William Faulkner Tackled Race—and Freed the South From Itself" (John Jeremiah Sullivan • New York Times Magazine • June 2012) [1:04:15] Austerlitz (W.G. Sebald • Modern Library • 2011)

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Episode 240: Alex Kotlowitz  

Alex Kotlowitz is a journalist whose work has appeared in print, radio, and film. He’s the author of three books, including There Are No Children Here: The Story of Two Boys Growing Up in the Other America.

“The truth of the matter is, given what we do, we’re always outsiders. If it’s not by race or class, it’s by gender, religion, politics. It’s just the nature of being a nonfiction writer—going into communities that, at some level, feel unfamiliar. If you’re writing about stuff you already know about, where’s the joy in that? Where’s the sense of discovery? Why bother?”

Thanks to MailChimp and MeUndies for sponsoring this week's episode.

alexkotlowitz.com Kotlowitz on Longform [00:00] "Episode 03: Nick Denton, founder of Gawker Media" (Stoner • Apr 2017) [01:30] There Are No Children Here: The Story of Two Boys Growing Up in the Other America (First Anchor Books • 1992) [01:45] The Other Side of the River: A Story of Two Towns, a Death, and America’s Dilemma (First Anchor Books • 1999) [01:45] The Interrupters [02:30] "The Trenchcoat Robbers" (New Yorker • Jul 2002) [05:00] Common Ground: A Turbulent Decade in the Lives of Three American Families (J. Anthony Lukas • First Vintage Books • 1986) [14:45] "487: Harper High School, Part One" (This American Life • Feb 2013) [14:45] "488: Harper High School, Part Two" (This American Life • Feb 2013) [24:45] "179: Cicero" (This American Life • Mar 2001) [31:30] In the Lake of the Woods (Tim O’Brien • First Mariner Books • 2006) [35:30] Never a City So Real: A Walk in Chicago (Crown Journeys • 2004) [45:15] Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith (Jon Krakauer • First Anchor Books • 2004)


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Episode 239: Brian Reed  

Brian Reed, a senior producer at This American Life, is the host of S-Town.

“It’s a story about the remarkableness of what could be called an unremarkable life.”

Thanks to MailChimp, Casper, and Squarespace for sponsoring this week's episode.

@brihreed Reed's This American Life archive [30:00] "Cops See It Differently" (This American Life • Feb 2015) [30:00] "Wake Up Now" (This American Life • Dec 2014) [45:45] Stoner (John Wiliams • Viking • 1965) [49:30] Photo of the S-Town planning room [47:15] The Known World: A Novel (Edward P. Jones • HarperCollins • 2003)

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Episode 238: Hrishikesh Hirway  

Hrishikesh Hirway is the host of Song Exploder.

“I love the idea that somebody would listen to an episode [of Song Exploder] and then the feeling that they would have afterwards is, ‘Now I want to make something.’ That’s the best possible reaction. Whether it’s music or not, just that idea: ‘I want to make something.’ Because that is the thing that I love most, getting that feeling.”

Thanks to MailChimp and MeUndies for sponsoring this week's episode.

@HrishiHirway [00:00] Stoner [01:45] BBC’s Classic Albums [02:30] "Episode 80: Bojack Horseman" (Song Exploder • Aug 2016) [02:30] "Episode 95: Moonlight" (Song Exploder • Jan 2017) [09:15] Genius [09:30] Who Sampled [18:00] 99% Invisible [19:15] "Episode 42: U2" (Song Exploder • Jun 2015) [22:30] The One AM Radio [23:00] Moors [26:30] City Soundtracks [28:15] The West Wing Weekly [33:30] "Episode 111: Louis CK Part 1" (WTF with Marc Maron • Oct 2010) [38:45] "Episode 84: Peter Bjorn and John" (Song Exploder • Sep 2016) [44:45] Francis and the Lights

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Episode 237: Sheelah Kolhatkar  

Sheelah Kolhatkar is a staff writer at The New Yorker and the author of Black Edge: Inside Information, Dirty Money, and the Quest to Bring Down the Most Wanted Man on Wall Street.

“Suddenly the financial crisis happened and all this stuff that had been hidden from view came out into the open. It was like, ‘Oh, this was actually all kind of a big façade.’ And there was all this fraud and stealing and manipulation and corruption, and all these other things going on underneath the whole shiny rock star surface. And that really also demonstrated to people how connected business stories, or anything to do with money, are to everything else going on. I mean, really almost everything that happens in our world, if you trace it back to its source, it’s money at the root of it.”

Thanks to MailChimp, Blue Apron, and Stamps.com for sponsoring this week's episode.

@sheelahk sheelahkolhatkar.com Kolhatkar on Longform [00:15] SAIC Application [00:30] Pregnant Pause [01:15] Missing Richard Simmons [04:00] Black Edge: Inside Information, Dirty Money, and the Quest to Bring Down the Most Wanted Man on Wall Street (Random House • 2017) [07:30] Kolhatkar’s Observer archive [09:15] "Suzy Wetlaufer Preparing To Be 'Neutron Jackie'" (Observer • Apr 2004) [15:00] "Hedge Funds Are for Suckers" (Bloomberg • Jul 2013) [17:45] Kolhatkar’s Time archive [18:00] "Poor Ruth" (New York • Jul 2009) [26:30] "When the Feds Went After the Hedge-Fund Legend Steven A. Cohen" (New Yorker • Jan 2017) [27:00] "Cheating, Incorporated" (Bloomberg • Feb 2011) [29:15] "The $40-Million Elbow" (Nick Paumgarten • New Yorker • Oct 2006) [35:15] "On the Trail of SAC Capital’s Steven Cohen" (Bloomberg • Jan 2013) [53:45] To Catch a Trader [58:15] "Trump’s Wolves of Wall Street" (New Yorker • Dec 2016) [59:45] "Juno Takes on Uber" (New Yorker • Oct 2016) [59:45] "Financiers Fight Over the American Dream" (New Yorker • Mar 2017)

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Episode 236: Al Baker  

Al Baker is a crime reporter at The New York Times, where he writes the series “Murder in the 4-0.”

“When there’s a murder in a public housing high rise, there’s a body on the floor. Jessica White in a playground, on a hot summer night. Her children saw it. Her body fell by a bench by a slide. You look up and there’s hundreds of windows, representing potentially thousands of eyes, looking down on that like a fishbowl. …They’re seeing it through the window and they can see that there’s a scarcity of response. And then they measure that against the police shooting that happened in February when there were three helicopters in the air and spotlights shining down on them all night and hundreds of officers with heavy armor going door to door to door to find out who shot a police officer. They can see the difference between a civilian death and an officer death.”

Thanks to MailChimp and Squarespace for sponsoring this week's episode.

@bakeal [02:15] Murder in the 4-0 [04:15] Baker’s Archive at New York Daily News [08:15] "The myth of the killer-cop ‘epidemic’" (Michael Walsh • New York Post • Jan 2016) [09:15] The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (Michelle Alexander • The New Press • 2012) [11:15] "A Bronx Precinct Where Killings Persist" (with Benjamin Mueller • New York Times • Feb 2016) [14:15] "From the archives: TWA Flight 800, flying with fear" (Newsday Staff Writers • Newsday • Jul 1996) [15:45] "A Bullet Misses Its Mark, and Then Takes a Fatal Detour" (with James C. McKinley Jr. • New York Times • Jan 2017) [21:15] "A Mother Is Shot Dead on a Playground, and a Sea of Witnesses Goes Silent" (with Benjamin Mueller • New York Times • Oct 2016) [22:45] "A Familiar Pattern in a Spouse’s Final Act" (with Benjamin Mueller & Ashley Southall • New York Times • Apr 2016) [22:45] "Quest for a New Life Ends in a Tangle of Gang Ties" (with James C. McKinley Jr. • New York Times • Aug 2016) [30:30] "Authorities Move to Charge 16 Officers After Widespread Ticket-Fixing" (with William K. Rashbaum • New York Times • Oct 2011) [36:15] Rukmini Callimachi on the Longform Podcast [37:30] Good Cop, Bad Cop: Joseph Trimboli vs Michael Dowd and the NY Police Department (Mike Mcalary • Pocket Books • 1996) [40:45] "A Cloak of Silence After a South Bronx Killing" (with Benjamin Mueller • New York Times • Mar 2016) [43:15] "Grandmother’s Killing Lays Bare a Dilemma in Child Welfare Work" (with James C. McKinley Jr. & Ashley Southall • New York Times • Nov 2016) [45:45] Random Family: Love, Drugs, Trouble, and Coming of Age in the Bronx (Adrian Nicole LeBlanc • Scribner • 2003) [47:30] "William Bratton, New York’s Influential Police Commissioner, Is Stepping Down" (with J. David Goodman • New York Times • Aug 2016) [47:30] "Ahmad Khan Rahami Is Arrested in Manhattan and New Jersey Bombings" (with Marc Santora, William K. Rashbaum, & Adam Goldman • New York Times • Sep 2016) [50:45] Seymour Hersh on the Longform Podcast [56:45] "Cops’ Favorite Target Thug, but Just Who Was the Guy?" (Michael Wilson • New York Times • Feb 2005)

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Episode 235: Caity Weaver  

Caity Weaver is a staff writer at GQ.

“I always try to remember: you don’t have to tell people what you’re not good at. You don’t have to remind them of what you’re not doing well or what your weak points are. Don’t apologize for things immediately. Always give a little less information than they need. Don’t overshare.”

Thanks to MailChimp for sponsoring this week's episode.

@caityweaver caity.info Weaver on Longform [02:30] "Kim Kardashian West Has a Few Things to Get Off Her Chest" (GQ • Jun 2016) [11:45] Weaver's Hairpin archive [13:00] Weaver's Gawker archive [13:00] A.J. Daulerio on the Longform Podcast [15:30] "New Jersey Children Forced to Shun Sad, Friendless Bear" (Gawker• Jun 2013) [16:30] "Justin Bieber Would Like to Reintroduce Himself" (GQ • Feb 2016) [18:00] "Larry David and Julia Louis-Dreyfus Are Furious" (GQ • Nov 2015) [25:15] "Gawker Slammed for Story Outing Condé Nast Exec" (Jessica Roay • New York • Jul 2015) [25:45] "Caity Weaver Takes the Gawker Buyout" (Jessica Roay • New York • Jul 2015)

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Episode 234: Matthew Cole  

Matthew Cole is an investigative reporter at The Intercept, where he recently published “The Crimes of Seal Team 6.”

“I’ve gotten very polite and very impolite versions of ‘go fuck yourself.’ I used to have a little sheet of paper where I wrote down those responses just as the vernacular that was given to me: ‘You’re a shitty reporter, and I don’t talk to shitty reporters.’ You know, I’ve had some very polite ones, [but] I’ve had people threaten me with their dogs. Some of it is absolutely cold.”

Thanks to Squarespace, Blue Apron, and MailChimp for sponsoring this week's episode.

@matthewacole matthewacole.com Cole on Longform [02:45] "The Crimes of Seal Team 6" (The Intercept • Jan 2017) [18:45] "SEAL Team 6: A Secret History of Quiet Killings and Blurred Lines" (Mark Mazzetti, Nicholas Kulish, Christopher Drew, Serge F. Kovaleski, Sean D. Naylor, and John Ismay • New York Times • Jun 2015) [21:00] "NBC Suspends Brian Williams for Six Months Over Iraq Helicopter Story" (Rory Carroll • Guardian • Feb 2015) [27:45] "How the NSA Plans to Infect ‘Millions’ of Computers With Malware" (Ryan Gallagher and Glenn Greenwald • The Intercept • Mar 2014) [35:15] "Adam Bruckner Was a Soccer Journeyman Searching For a Home. Along the Way, He Wound Up Solving a Murder" (ESPN Magazine • Jul 2012) [36:15] "Between Heaven and Hell" (ESPN Magazine • Jun 2006) [38:00] "Killing ourselves in Afghanistan" (Salon • Mar 2008) [39:45] "The Spy Who Said Too Much" (Steve Coll • New Yorker • Apr 2013) [45:30] "Report: Two CIA Black Site Prisons in Lithuania" (ABC News • Dec 2009) [47:45] "US Diplomat SMeared by ‘Sex Tape’" (ABC News • Sep 2009) [53:00] "Who Shot Bin Laden? A Tale of Two SEALs" (With Anna R. Schecter • NBC News • Nov 2014) [57:30] "‘American Sniper’ Chris Kyle Distorted His Military Record, Documents Show" (Intercept • May 2016)

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Episode 233: Alexis C. Madrigal  

Alexis C. Madrigal is an editor-at-large for Fusion, where he’s producing the upcoming podcast, Containers.

“Sometimes you think like, 'Man the media business is the worst. This is so hard.' When you spend time with all these other business people, you probably are going to say, ‘Capitalism is the worst. This is hard.’ Competition that’s linked to global things is so hard because global companies are locked in this incredible efficiency battle that just drives all of the slack out of the system. Like media, there’s no slack left, and I don’t know where things go after that.”

Thanks to MailChimp, Stamps.com, and Casper for sponsoring this week's episode.

@alexismadrigal alexismadrigal.com Madrigal on Longform [00:00] Longform Podcast Survey [03:00] Madrigal’s Archive at The Atlantic [03:45] Consumer Conspicuous [05:00] Ross Andersen on the Longform Podcast [05:30] "First-Gen T. Rex Was No Bigger Than You" (Wired • Sep 2009) [06:45] Powering the Dream: The History and Promise of Green Technology (Da Capo Press • 2011) [12:45] Nuzzel [15:30] "BuzzFeed editor-in-chief in year-end memo: ‘Fake news will become more sophisticated’ than ever in 2017" (Oliver Darcy • Business Insider • Dec 2016) [19:00] "The alpha dog that wouldn’t hunt: How Trump’s ludicrous ‘alpha male’ act is destroying him" (Matthew Rozsa • Salon • Oct 2016) [24:00] "How Google Builds Its Maps—and What It Means for the Future of Everything" (Atlantic • Sep 2012) [27:45] "A Fleet of One" (John McPhee • New Yorker • Feb 2003) [28:15] Uncommon Carriers (John McPhee • Farrar, Straus and Giroux • 2006) [29:15] Madrigal’s Archive at Fusion [29:15] Real Future [37:45] Slacker [46:00] "American Aqueduct: The Great California Water Saga" (Atlantic • Feb 2014) [48:45] Madrigal’s Archive at NPR

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Episode 232: Ana Marie Cox  

Ana Marie Cox is the senior political correspondent for MTV News, conducts the “Talk” interviews in The New York Times Magazine, and founded Wonkette.

“When people are sending me hate mail or threats, one defense I have against that is ‘you don’t know me.’ You know? That wasn’t something I always was able to say. As I’ve become a stronger person, it’s been easier for me to be like, ‘The person they’re attacking, it’s not me.’”

Thanks to MailChimp, Squarespace, and Blue Apron for sponsoring this week's episode.

@anamariecox anamariecox.com [00:30] Missing Richard Simmons [04:15] Cox’s Archive at Suck.com [10:00] "The Uses of Enchantment" (Suck • Jul 1997) [11:00] Cox’s Archive at Mother Jones [12:15] The Chicago Maroon [12:45] "Waterworld" (Suck • Sep 1996) [21:45] "Joe Buck Knows Why You Hate Him" (New York Times Magazine • Feb 2017) [25:30] Cox’s Archive at New York Times Magazine [25:30] Cox’s Archive at GQ [29:15] "What Bush Wants You to Do" (Wonkette • Apr 2004) [30:45] "The Lost Washingtonienne" (Wonkette • May 2004) [31:30] "Washingtonienne Speaks!! Wonkette Exclusive!! Must Credit Wonkette!! The Washingtonienne Interview!!" (Wonkette • May 2004) [33:00] "Face Value" (The Baffler • 2012) [36:15] "Wonkette Founder Cox: ‘If Hillary Wins, It’ll Be Because Black and Brown People Saved Us’" (YouTube • Sep 2016) [36:30] "Watch MTV News’ Ana Marie Cox’s Emotional Reaction to Latest Trump Sexual Assault Allegations" (Media Matters • Oct 2016) [39:45] "Fans Tweet About Mental Illness to Honor Carrie Fisher" (Ryan Burleson & Tara Parker-Pope • New York Times • Dec 2016) [42:15] "Exclusive: Ana Marie Cox Tells Breitbart News Sunday About Her Coming to Christ" (Robert Wilde • Breitbart • Mar 2015) [42:30] "Why I’m Coming Out as a Christian" (Ana Marie Cox • Daily Beast • Feb 2015) [48:00] Cox’s Archive at The Guardian [50:45] Roads & Kingdoms

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Episode 231: Brooke Gladstone  

Brooke Gladstone is the host of On the Media.

“I’ve learned so much about how easy it is to redefine reality in this era of billions of filter bubbles. How easy it is to cast doubt on what is undeniably true. And I think that that’s what frightens me the most. I actually think that’s what frightens most people the most. How do we make sure that we all live in the same world? Or do we?”

Thanks to MailChimp, Texture, and School of the Art Institute of Chicago for sponsoring this week's episode.

@OTMBrooke On the Media [01:00] Love and Ruin (W.W. Norton & Company • 2016) [01:15] Gladstone on the Longform Podcast [05:15] Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History [07:45] "Will the Supreme Court Stand Up to Trump?" (Linda Greenhouse • New York Times • Feb 2017) [13:00] "January Surprise" (On the Media • Jan 2017) [20:00] "Objectivity: What Is It Good For?" (On the Media • Feb 2017) [29:00] "How Trump Might Save the Media He So Despises" (On the Media • Jan 2017) [29:15] "Winter Is Coming: Prospects for the American Press Under Trump" (Jay Rosen • PressThink • Dec 2016) [40:00] "Busted: America’s Poverty Myths" (On the Media • 2016)

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Episode 230: Ezra Edelman  

Ezra Edelman is the director of O.J.: Made in America.

“When I say what I learned is that America is even more fucked up than I had previously thought, it’s that—the superficiality of it. How we are willingly seduced by these shiny people and these shiny things. And, again, when I looked at O.J.’s trajectory, that was an operating principle.”

Thanks to MailChimp, Squarespace, Casper, and Secrets, Crimes, & Audiotape for sponsoring this week's episode.

@ezraedelman [00:45] "Vanish" (Evan Ratliff • Wired • Nov 2009) [00:45] O.J.: Made in America [02:30] Magic & Bird: A Courtship of Rivals [10:30] The Straight Story [20:30] Tamara Rosenburg on IMDB [38:15] Caroline Waterlow on IMDB [39:15] Nina Krstic on IMDB [46:30] "What Football Does to the Brain" (Mike Orcutt • MIT Technology Review • Jan 2016) [52:15] "Most Black People Now Think O.J. Was Guilty" (Carl Bialik • FiveThirtyEight • Jun 2016)

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Episode 229: Alexey Kovalev  

Alexey Kovalev is a Moscow-based journalist and the author of the recent article, “A Message to My Doomed Colleagues in the American Media."

“It’s really disheartening to see how little it takes for people to start believing in something that directly contradicts the empirical facts that they are directly confronting. The Russian TV channel tells you that the pill is red, but the pill in front of you is blue. It completely alters the perception of reality. You don’t know what’s real anymore.”

Thanks to MailChimp and Penn State World Campus.

@Alexey_Kovalev noodleremover.news [00:15] "A message to my doomed colleagues in the American media" (Medium • Jan 2017) [02:45] RIA Novosti [06:00] RT [07:30] Kovalev’s Archive at The Guardian [11:45] "RT, Information War, and Billions of Views: Where do the numbers come from?" (Translated by Aric Toler • Stop Fake • Jan 2017) [12:00] Adrian Chen on the Longform Podcast [12:00] "The Troll Hunters" (Adrian Chen • MIT Technology Review • Dec 2014) [16:30] The Intelligence Report Assessing Russian Activities in the US Election [17:00] The Onion [21:15] "From Headline to Photograph, a Fake News Masterpiece" (Scott Shane • New York Times • Jan 2017) [28:30] Kovalev’s Archive at The Moscow Times [29:00] Kovalev’s Archive at Open Democracy [29:00] "How Fake Stories Reported in Russia’s News Media Regularly Fool Everyone" (Translated by Kevin Rothrock • Global Voices • Sep 2016)

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Episode 228: Jeff Sharlet  

Jeff Sharlet writes about politics and religion for Esquire, GQ, New York Times Magazine, and more.

“I like the stories with difficult people. I like the stories about people who are dismissed as monsters. I hate the term ‘monster.’ ‘Monster’ is a safe term for us, right? Trump’s a monster. Great, we don’t need to wrestle with, ‘Uh oh, he’s not a monster. He’s in this human family with us.’ I’m not normalizing him. I’m acknowledging the fact. Now, what’s wrong with us? If Trump is human, what’s wrong with you?”

Thanks to MailChimp, Squarespace, and Blue Apron for sponsoring this week's episode.

@JeffSharlet jeffsharlet.blogspot.com Sharlet on Longform [00:15] "David Fahrenthold: Investigating Trump" (Katie Couric • Katie Couric Show • Dec 2016) [00:30] "Edward Snowden: The Whistleblower" (Katie Couric • Katie Couric Show • Dec 2016) [07:00] Decât o Revistă [08:00] "Bullies in the Schoolyard" (Tablet • Dec 2016) [08:30] Killing the Buddha [08:45] Go Tell It on the Mountain (James Baldwin • Vintage • 2013) [09:00] The Apostle [10:30] Wisconsin Death Trip (Michael Lesy • University of New Mexico Press • 2000) [11:15] Pakn Treger [12:30] The Chronicle of Higher Education [13:30] Killing the Buddha: A Heretic’s Bible (with Peter Manseau • Free Press • 2004) [18:45] "Jesus plus nothing" (Harper’s • Mar 2003) [sub req’d] [18:45] The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power (Harper Perennial • 2009) [22:45] "Straight Man’s Burden" (Harper’s • Sep 2010) [27:30] "Ashcroft’s Ascent" (Jeffrey Toobin • New Yorker • Apr 2002) [28:00] John Ashcroft Sings “Let the Eagle Soar” (YouTube) [30:00] "The Runaway General" (Michael Hastings • Rolling Stone • Jun 2010) [30:45] "James Webb’s Never-Ending War" (Rolling Stone • Jun 2007) [31:45] "The Ministry of Fun" (Esquire • Aug 2016) [37:00] "Are You Man Enough for the Men’s Rights Movement?" (GQ • Feb 2014) [42:30] "Dubliners" (Virginia Quarterly Review • 2016) [45:30] C Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy (Little, Brown and Company • 2010) [46:30] "Donald Trump, American Preacher" (New York Times Magazine • Apr 2016) [51:45] "A&E Shelves a K.K.K. Documentary Series Over Cash Payments" (New York Times • Dec 2016)

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Episode 227: Jace Clayton  

Jace Clayton is a music writer and musician who records as DJ /rupture. His book is Uproot: Travels in 21st-Century Music and Digital Culture.

“What does it mean to be young and have some sound inside your head? Or to be in a scene that you want to broadcast to the world? That notion of the world is changing, who you’re broadcasting to is changing, all these different things—the tool sets. But there’s this very fundamental joy of music making. I was like, ‘Ok. Let’s find flashpoints where interesting things are happening and can be unpacked that shed different little spotlights on it, but do fall into this wider view of how we articulate what’s thrilling to be alive right now.’”

Thanks to MailChimp for sponsoring this week's episode.

@djrupture jaceclayton.com [04:15] Uproot: Travels in 21st-Century Music and Digital Culture (Farrar, Straus and Giroux • 2016) [05:00] Wax Poetic [05:30] "Slow Burn" (The Fader • Jul 2008) [06:00] "Past Masters" (The National • Mar 2009) [15:30] "Pitch Perfect" (Frieze • May 2009) [23:30] Mudd Up! [29:15] "Julius Eastman Memorial Dinner" (The Music Gallery • Oct 2014) [29:30] Julius Eastman’s Femenine [35:00] The Mudd Up! Radio Archive [37:45] Caroline Shaw [40:00] "Cairo: Something New" (The Fader • Oct 2012) [41:15] "Tribal Guarachero: Mexican Teens & Aztec History" (The Fader • Oct 2010) [42:15] Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game (Michael Lewis • W.W. Norton & Company • 2004) [44:45] Tigerbeat6

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Episode 226: Terry Gross  

Terry Gross is the host and co-executive producer of Fresh Air.

“Part of my philosophy of life is that you have to live with a certain amount of delusion. And part of the delusion I live with is that maybe, from experience, I’m getting a little bit better. But then the other part of me, the more overpowering part of me, is the pessimistic part that says, ‘It’s going to be downhill from here.’ I try not to judge myself too much because I’m so self-judgmental that I don’t want to over-judge and get into too much of ‘Am I better than I was yesterday, or not?’”

Thanks to MailChimp, Squarespace, and Blue Apron for sponsoring this week's episode.

Gross on Longform Fresh Air [26:30] "Hillary Clinton: The Fresh Air Interview" (Fresh Air • Jun 2014) [29:30] "Among the Hillary Haters" (Hanna Rosin • The Atlantic • Mar 2015) [43:53] "Our Mission and Vision" (NPR • 1971) [52:45] "Fresh Air 2: 2 Fresh 2 Furious" (YouTube) [56:16] All I Did Was Ask: Conversations with Writers, Actors, Musicians, and Artists (Hachette Books • 2005) [58:30] "’Fresh Air’ Host Terry Gross: I Always Think Listeners Are Disappointed When They Meet Me" (Jim Romenesko • Jim Romenesko Blog • May 2015) [59:15] "Terry Gross and the Art of Opening Up" (Susan Burton • New York Times Magazine • Oct 2015) [1:03:45] Morning Edition [1:04:00] WTF with Marc Maron [1:04:00] The Longest Shortest Time [1:04:15] "Episode #1: Peter Sagal Opens Up" (The Hilarious World of Depression • Dec 2016) [1:04:45] The Pub [1:05:00] This American Life [1:05:00] On the Media [1:05:00] How to Be Amazing with Michael Ian Black [1:13:00] "Maurice Sendak: On Life, Death and Children’s Lit" (Fresh Air • Sep 2011)

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Episode 225: Ta-Nehisi Coates  

Ta-Nehisi Coates is the author of Between the World and Me and a national correspondent for The Atlantic. His latest cover story is “My President Was Black."

“[People] have come to see me as somebody with answers, but I don’t actually have answers. I’ve never had answers. The questions are the enthralling thing for me. Not necessarily at the end of the thing getting somewhere that’s complete—it’s the asking and repeated asking. I don’t know how that happened, but I felt like after a while it got to the point where I was seen as having unique answers, and I just didn’t. I really, really didn’t.”

Thanks to MailChimp, Casper, and Audible for sponsoring this week's episode.

@tanehisicoates Coates on Longform [00:15] The 100th Episode of the Longform Podcast [00:45] "My President Was Black" (Atlantic • Dec 2016) [01:15] Longform’s Best of 2016 List [01:45] Shane Bauer on the Longform Podcast [02:00] "Prince of the Forty Thieves" (David Gauvey Herbert • Atavist • Dec 2016) [03:15] Coates’s First Appearance on the Longform Podcast [03:15] Coates’s Second Appearance on the Longform Podcast [03:15] Coates’s Third Appearance on the Longform Podcast [04:30] Black Panther: A Nation Under Our Feet (Marvel • 2016) [09:30] Between the World and Me (Spiegel & Grau • 2015) [09:45] "The Case for Reparations" (Atlantic • Jun 2014) [13:45] Coates’s Archive at Washington City Paper [16:45] "On Homecomings" (Atlantic • May 2016) [18:45] "The Black Family in the Age of Mass Incarceration" (Atlantic • Oct 2015) [20:45] "Fear of a Black President" (Atlantic • Sep 2012) [21:15] Jonathan Chait’s Archive at New York [30:30] "The Cosby Show" (Atlantic • Nov 2014) [35:15] Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance (Barack Obama • Three Rivers Press • 2004) [35:30] "‘The Filter…Is Powerful’: Obama on Race, Media, and What It Took to Win" (Atlantic • Dec 2016) [43:45] "Obama’s Full Remarks at Howard University Commencement Ceremony" (Politico Staff • Politico • May 2016) [50:30] Nate Silver on the Longform Podcast [51:30] "Other People’s Pathologies" (Atlantic • Mar 2014)

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Episode 224: Hua Hsu  

Hua Hsu writes for The New Yorker and is the author of A Floating Chinaman: Fantasy and Failure Across the Pacific.

“I remember, as a kid, my dad telling me that when he moved to the United States he subscribed to The New Yorker, and then he canceled it after a month because he had no idea what any of it was about. You know, at the time, it certainly wasn’t a magazine for a Chinese immigrant fresh off the boat—or off the plane, rather—in the early 70s. And I always think about that. I always think, ‘I want my dad to understand even though he’s not that interested in Dr.Dre.’ I still think, ‘I want him to be able to glean something from this.’”

Thanks to MailChimp, Texture, and Squarespace for sponsoring this week's episode.

@huahsu huascene.com Hsu on Longform [03:45] A Floating Chinaman: Fantasy and Failure Across the Pacific (Harvard University Press • 2016) [04:00] The Good Earth (Pearl S. Buck • Washington Square Press • 1931) [06:00] "Where’s the Beef?" (Slate • Jul 2007) [07:15] And China Has Hands (H.T. Tsiang • Ironweed Press • 2003) [09:00] "On the Road with Hannibal Buress, Comedy’s Most Respected Slacker" (The Fader • Apr 2015) [14:45] "The Remarkable Forgotten Life of H. T. Tsiang" (New Yorker • Jul 2016) [14:45] "Endless Endless: Kraftwek at MoMA" (Paris Review • May 2012) [26:15] "A God Dream" (New Yorker • Feb 2016) [26:45] Hsu’s Archive at Grantland [26:45] "All Hail the Chairmen: Jonathan Olivares’s ‘Taxonomy of Office Chairs’" (LA Review of Books • Apr 2012) [28:45] Pitchfork [28:45] Stereogum [29:45] "Reality Hunger" (New Yorker • Aug 2015)


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Episode 223: Carl Zimmer  

Carl Zimmer, a columnist for the New York Times and a national correspondent at STAT, writes about science.

“[Criticism] doesn’t change the truth. You know? Global warming is still happening. Vaccines still work. Evolution is still true. No matter what someone on Twitter or someone in an administration is going to say, it’s still true. So, we science writers have to still be letting people know about what science has discovered, what we with our minds have discovered about the world—to the best of our abilities. That’s our duty as science writers, and we can’t let these things scare us off.”

Thanks to MailChimp, Audible, and Squarespace for sponsoring this week's episode.

@carlzimmer carlzimmer.com Zimmer on Longform [01:00] Ross Andersen on the Longform Podcast [02:45] Zimmer’s column at the New York Times [02:45] Zimmer’s books [04:00] "The Rise of the Tick" (Outside • Apr 2013) [08:15] Parasite Rex: Inside the Bizarre World of Nature’s Most Dangerous Creatures (Simon & Schuster • 2000) [08:30] "A Sleeping Storm" (Discover • Aug 1998) [25:00] "How Scientists Stalked a Lethal Superbug—With the Killer’s Own DNA" (Wired • Jan 2013) [25:30] "Game of Genomes Episode 1: Man Inside the Hard Drive" (STAT • Jul 2016) [30:00] "How Fighter Pilots Stay Sharp" (Evan Ratliff • Men’s Journal • Dec 2013) [31:15] Zimmer’s Mosaic Archive [33:00] "King of the Cosmos" (Playboy • Jan 2012) [35:00] Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey [36:15] Star Talk [38:30] "Global Warming Alters Arctic Food Chain, Scientists Say, With Unforeseeable Results" (New York Times • Nov 2016) [40:00] "Special Report: Endless Summer—Living With the Greenhouse Effect" (Andrew C. Revkin • Discover • Oct 1988) [46:45] At the Water’s Edge: Fish with Fingers, Whales with Legs, and How Life Came Ashore but Then Went Back to Sea (Touchstone • 1999) [52:30] "The Girl Who Turned to Bone" (Atlantic • Jun 2013)

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Episode 222: Wesley Lowery  

Wesley Lowery is a national reporter at the Washington Post, where he worked on the Pulitzer-winning project, "Fatal Force." His new book is They Can’t Kill Us All: Ferguson, Baltimore, and a New Era in America’s Racial Justice Movement.

“I think that we decided at some point that either you are a journalist or you are an activist. And I identify as a journalist, to be clear, but one of the reasons I often don’t engage in that conversation—when someone throws that back at me I kind of deflect a little bit—is that I think there’s some real fallacy in there. I think that every journalist should be an activist for transparency, for accountability—certainly amongst our government, for first amendment rights. There are things that by our nature of what we do we should be extremely activist.”

Thanks to MailChimp, Harry’s, Casper, and School of the Arts Institute of Chicago for sponsoring this week's episode.

@WesleyLowery [03:15] Detroit Free Press [03:15] The Plain Dealer [03:15] North Jersey [03:15] Diversity Inc. [03:15] Black Enterprise [05:00] They Can’t Kill Us All: Ferguson, Baltimore, and a New Era in America’s Racial Justice Movement (Little, Brown and Company • 2016) [05:45] "Same-sex marriage is gaining momentum, but some advocates don’t want it on the ballot in Ohio" (Washington Post • Jun 2014) [06:00] "Senate votes to restore federal funding for extended unemployment benefits" (Washington Post • Apr 2014) [06:15] "Congressional Democrats to introduce new Voting Rights Act fix" (Washington Post • Jun 2015) [07:30] "Police use tear gas on crowd in Ferguson, Mo., protesting teen’s death" (Washington Post • Aug 2014) [10:45] "The story behind that Boston Marathon photo of runners carrying a competitor toward the finish" (Washington Post • Apr 2014) [10:45] "Aaron Hernandez indicted, accused of killing two men in 2012" (Washington Post • May 2014) [13:15] O.J.: Made in America [30:00] "Fatal Force" (Washington Post • 2015) [31:30] "The DC Investigates: Is WaPo’s Wesley Lowery Black?" (Betsy Rothstein • Daily Caller • Dec 2014) [40:15] "Police: Multiple witnesses say Antonio Martin pulled gun on officer" (Washington Post • Dec 2014)

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