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Have you ever wondered about the legal history of the war on drugs? Even if you havenât, we wonât mollycoddle you â this episodeâs a trip. Our guest on todayâs podcast is a scholar of constitutional law and information law known for really getting in the weeds and dunking what we think we know in an acid bath. Weâre delighted to have joining us today the radical David Pozen, Charles Keller Beekman Professor at Columbia Law School, here to talk about his far out new book, The Constitution of the War on Drugs.
In this episode, we dive into the law, politics, and history of drug legalization and criminalization in the United States. We begin by Pozen giving an impassioned plea for how the war on drugs implicates racial justice, equal protection, federalism, and cruel and unusual punishment. Next, Sam dunks on history. Throughout the episode, we discuss the political economy of drugs (New Yorkâs botched marijuana rollout) and generational divides (Clintonâs âI didnât inhaleâ). We end by contemplating the brain-bending, otherworldly potential of the First Amendment to protect heightened brain states. Pour yourself a Coke and enjoy.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
âSilver Blazeâ by Arthur Conan Doyle
âBeyond Carolene Productsâ by Bruce Ackerman
The American Disease: Origins Of Narcotic Control by David Musto
âThe Crisis in Teaching Constitutional Lawâ by Jesse Wegman
The Age of Addiction: How Bad Habits Became Big Business by David Courtwright
How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan
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Listeners, law professors have been having a bit of a crisis. Those poor souls have been asking: is international law real? (No comment.) What about constitutional law â that has to be real, right? The New York Times ran an op-ed this week where con law professors more or less said, âno, but weâll keep pretending as long as we can.â (As Calvin Trillin wrote in 1984, what if con law âreally wasnât the ideal place for a smart boy with a social conscience to go?â) Feeling down in the dumps, we brought on this weekâs guest, David Boies Professor of Law at NYU Daryl Levinson, to dispel disenchantment through a discussion of his new book, Law for Leviathan: Constitutional Law, International Law, and the State.
Levinson begins by assuring us that not only are international law and constitutional law both real, theyâre real in the same way â as sub-species of a law for states. Next, we clarify that the Levinsonian law for states is a functionalist account of law and place it in both the Anglo-American and continental European international law traditions. Finally, we talk about how each of international and constitutional law relate to democracy â and what happens when a class of economic leviathans grows powerful enough to challenge the state.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
The Company-State: Corporate Sovereignty and the Early Modern Foundations of the British Empire in India by Philip J. Stern
âPrivate Supreme Courtsâ by David Fontana and David Schleicher
âSeparation of Parties, Not Powersâ by Daryl Levinson and Richard Pildes
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Welcome back, devoted listeners, and say hello to season eight of Digging a Hole, where weâve got an extraordinarily stacked lineup just waiting in the wings. To make up for the cold, cold months where you had to get your legal theory fix from reading articles (boring) or attending faculty workshops (ugh), weâre kicking off the season with a mammoth episode about a mammoth book. Todayâs guest is the former dean and current Sterling Professor of Law at Yale Law School, and Co-Reporter for the American Law Institute, Robert Post, here to talk about Volume 10 of the Oliver Wendell Holmes Devise History of the Supreme Court of the United States (aka the official biography of SCOTUS), The Taft Court: Making Law for a Divided Nation, 1921 to 1930.
From the outset, Post sets the stage for his argument that the Taft Court and the 1920s are an important but underappreciated time in American legal history. We discuss how the Taft Court grows out of and evolves according to two social questions wrenching the nation â the First World War and Prohibition. Next, we talk about the different theories of sovereignty and democracy as represented by the different wings of the court, with Taft playing counterpoint to lionized jurists Brandeis and Holmes. Sam, angling for his dream job of author of Volume 14 of the Devise, peppers Post with questions about formalism, realism, and consequentialism. Weâre not kidding when we say thatâs only half the episode â but, listeners, the second half is a canât-miss if you care about Taft the master administrator, judicial politics, and the power of the Supreme Court. We hope you enjoy.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
A Muted Fury: Populists, Progressives, and Labor Unions Confront the Courts, 1890-1937 by William G. Ross
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Like George Santosâs tenure in Washington and Tim Scottâs rousing presidential campaign, all good things must come to an end, and so we wave goodbye to season seven of Digging a Hole. Our last guest of this season needs no introduction: according to our team of in-house scientists, if you stacked a penny for each citation heâs received, the tower of pennies would reach almost 1,000 feet high (which, frankly, is not as tall as our scientists expected but is taller than any other scholarâs penny tower). Thatâs right â our guest today is an author of a best-selling book about Star Wars, the former Administrator of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, and current Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard Law School: Cass Sunstein, here to talk about his new book, How to Interpret the Constitution.
We begin by laying out the thesis of the book: that we must have a theory of interpreting the Constitution that comes from outside the Constitution, and that we should choose the interpretive theory that makes our nation the best off. That simple? Sam and David donât think so, and we discuss what it means to make our nation better off, why we need to choose an interpretive theory in the first place, and how we might revise the thesis on a more institutional view. Next, we look at judicial politics and restraint through the specter that haunts our podcast, James Bradley Thayer. And finally, we get to the bottom of Sunsteinâs predictive judgments about the future of constitutional interpretation and American democracy.
See you next year.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
âBlasphemy and the Original Meaning of the First Amendmentâ âThe Forum of Principleâ by Ronald Dworkin âEfficiency vs. Welfare in Benefit-Cost Analysis: The Case of Government Fundingâ by Zachary Liscow and Cass Sunstein -
Itâs the last month of the year and soon (but not yet!), itâll be the last podcast of the season. We had a lot of people write in about our last episode and so this Christmas, on behalf of all of you, weâll ask Santa for more Digging a Hole. But before we leave out some milk and cookies, weâve still got some great episodes for you. Today, weâve got a pre-recorded episode that â can you believe it â couldnât be aired for contracts (?!) reasons. But the embargo has been lifted! And here on the pod to talk about no less than a prince of free trade is Jennifer Burns, Associate Professor of History at Stanford University, discussing her new book, Milton Friedman: The Last Conservative.
David and Sam start off by making Burns defend the subtitle of the book â was Friedman really the last conservative? Then we discuss the breadth of Friedmanâs life and the breadth of Burnsâs book, which travels the terrain of the intellectual history of economics to the study of Friedman as libertarian and television celebrity. We get deep into the debate between Keynesianism and monetarism â no math required, but make sure youâve done your macro readings. Sam wants to know if the book is too easy on Friedman, especially his involvement in Chile. David wants to know if Friedman surrounded himself by sycophants to duck debates. And amidst all of that, Burns makes the case for Friedman as an underappreciated economic thinker who might be right about charter schools. Yes, we know thatâs a lot. We hope you enjoy.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
âThe Mighty Wurlitzer Plays Onâ by Tim Barker -
Listeners â our apologies. Weâve given you interesting topic after interesting topic, distinguished guest after distinguished guest. But weâve strayed from the promise of the podcast, which is legal theory, and legal theory means arguing ad nauseam about whether weâre positivists or normativists. For a recent intervention in that debate, weâre delighted to bring you todayâs guest, William Baude, the Harry Kalven, Jr. Professor of Law and Faculty Director of the Constitutional Law Institute at the University of Chicago Law School and a member of the Presidential Commission on the Supreme Court of the United States, to discuss his 2023 Scalia Lecture at Harvard Law School, âBeyond Textualism?â.
We recommend you give the paper a skim before listening â Sam and David donât waste any time getting into it on this episode. David presses Baude on the relationship between textualism and democracy while Sam is skeptical that Baudeâs project is properly textualist at all. Next, we try to make sense of how the law-policy distinction maps onto the common law and the so-called general law past and present. Our tour continues to statutory interpretation before we get to the normativist-positivist debate (or: whatâs the difference between Will Baude and Adrian Vermeule?). We end by discussing Baudeâs recent foray into celebrity and whether the Constitution bars Donald Trump from running for president.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
A Matter of Interpretation by Antonin Scalia
âFinding Lawâ by Stephen Sachs
âGeneral Law and the Fourteenth Amendmentâ by Will Baude, Jud Campbell, and Stephen Sachs
Legalism by Judith Shklar
âThe âCommon-Goodâ Manifestoâ by Will Baude and Stephen Sachs
âThe Real Enemies of Democracyâ by Will Baude
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Squarely in the heart of the Trump administration, Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt published a book titled How Democracies Die which proved enormously popular. Celebrities read it. Obama read it. Most people you know probably pretended to have read it. Five years later, Levitsky and Ziblatt are back with a sequel of sorts, arguing that in the United States, democracy might never have been fully alive in the first place, strangled in the cradle by our very own constitution. To explain how their thinking has changed since How Democracies Die and discuss the new book, Tyranny of the Minority, weâre thrilled to have on todayâs podcast Daniel Ziblatt, Eaton Professor of Government at Harvard University and director of the Transformations of Democracy group at Berlin's Social Science Center.
In this episode, we poke around into all of the different ways the United States privileges minoritarian politics. Ziblatt explains that a major contribution of Tyranny of the Minority is showing how regular politics interact with our constitutionâs minoritarianism to create a particularly potent anti-democratic danger for the United States. We discuss the legislative advantage minorities have in the U.S. thanks to our love of holding onto grand old traditions like the filibuster and what that means for statutory interpretation. Democratic backsliding, the advantages of party politics, papal smoke and mirrorsâitâs all in there. We hope you enjoy.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
How Democracies Die by Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt
Democratic Justice: Felix Frankfurter, the Supreme Court, and the Making of the Liberal Establishment by Brad Snyder
âInside or Outside the System?â by Eric Posner and Adrian Vermuele
After Misogyny: How the Law Fails Women and What to Do about It by Julie Suk
The Anti-Oligarchy Constitution: Reconstructing the Economic Foundations of American Democracy by Joseph Fishkin and William Forbath
âThe Insulation of Local Governance from Black Electoral Power: Northern Cities and the Great Migrationâ by Jacob Grumbach, Robert Mickey, and Daniel Ziblatt
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As the Supreme Court moves forward with its administrative state agenda, we thought weâd get in on the action and make sure we understand what exactly that agenda even is. Lucky for us, weâve got some friends who can shed light on that matter. On todayâs episode, weâre joined by Emma Kaufman, Professor of Law at New York University Law School, to discuss her paper, co-authored with previous pod guest Adam Cox, âThe Adjudicative State.â
In this episode, we talk about the administrative state as a neglected site of adjudication and agency adjudication as a neglected site of administration. First, Professor Kaufman explains how her past research on immigration helped her identify and break through these blind spots. Next, we talk about how best to achieve equal justice under the law. Should we follow the legal academy, and half the op-eds in the New York Times, and leave politics out of courts? Or should we politicize justice entirely? (It turns out politicizing administration is complicated anyway!) Finally, Professor Kaufman leaves us with a bit of a cliff-hanger â stay tuned for her history of private prosecution and tune in to find out how it related to the rest of the topics on todayâs pod.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
â1930s Redux: The Administrative State Under Siegeâ by Gillian Metzger
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After a long summer vacation, weâre thrilled to be back for season seven of Digging a Hole! Just a couple of weeks ago we were baking; now weâre surviving storm after storm, quivering and quaking. Climate change, huh? Here on the pod to discuss their forthcoming paper on how environmental law can help get us out of our existential crisis, âThe Greens' Dilemma: Building Tomorrow's Climate Infrastructure Todayâ are J.B. Ruhl, the David Daniels Allen Distinguished Chair in Law at Vanderbilt Law School, and Jim Salzman, the Donald Bren Distinguished Professor of Environmental Law at the UCLA School of Law.
What is the Greensâ Dilemma â and is it even a dilemma exactly? Sam and David have their doubts, but Professors Ruhl and Salzman lay out what they think the dilemma that environmentalists face is, why itâs a dilemma, and their proposed solution to it. Professors Ruhl and Salzman discuss coalition building for green infrastructure and why they might be able to get both progressives and conservatives on board. Is a rapid transition to clean energy and negative emissions compatible with environmental justice (EJ)? Our guests answer with an emphatic yes but ask you, our argumentative listeners, to engage and disagree.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
âSamuel Moyn Canât Stop Blaming Trumpism on Liberalsâ by Jonathan Chait
Mine!: How the Hidden Rules of Ownership Control Our Lives by Michael Heller and Jim Salzman
âWhat Happens When the Green New Deal Meets the Old Green Laws?â by J.B. Ruhl and Jim Salzman
Public Citizens: The Attack on Big Government and the Remaking of American Liberalism by Paul Sabin
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As Punxsutawney Phil to winter are we to summer; and today, we celebrate a very special end-of-season episode. Sam is joined by guest co-host Noah Rosenblum, Assistant Professor of Law at New York University School of Law, to discuss work by our very own David Schleicher. Davidâs new book, In a Bad State: Responding to State and Local Budget Crises, which is both a romp through the American history of state and local debt as well as a mirror-for-princes for bankruptcy judges and administrators, all while standing at a parsimonious 171 pages, is out today.
David first introduces his concept of the fiscal trilemma: that when responding to state and local budget crises, the American federal government must choose between bailing out state local and governments, imposing austerity measures, or letting them default. This framework opens up a wide-ranging conversation from infrastructure financing, where we discuss the Erie Canal and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, to the value-added tax, where David argues that the European tax system is a third way between AEI and Brookings. Oh, and because weâre a legal theory podcast, thereâs lots of discussion of history, the nineteenth- and twentieth-century Supreme Court as a bunch of political hacks, and how the Great Recession and COVID have changed the political and legal landscape of public finance. Listen to this pod, buy Davidâs book, have a wonderful summer, and weâll see you back in the fall.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
Why Cities Lose: The Deep Roots of the Urban-Rural Political Divide by Jonathan Rodden
âThe Dilemma of Odious Debtsâ by Mitu Gulati, Lee C. Buchheit, and Robert. B. Thompson
Courthouse Architecture, Design and Social Justice edited by Kristy Duncanson and Emma Henderson
The Prince by NiccolĂČ Machiavelli
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The sun is shining, the flowers are blooming, and Davidâs back on the pod. More importantly, weâre thrilled this week to be joined by Julie Suk, Professor of Law at Fordham University School of Law in New York City, to discuss her new book After Misogyny: How the Law Fails Women and What to Do about It. After Misogyny, like much of Professor Sukâs scholarship, including her first book, is impressively interdisciplinary, centering women and gender in the legal, historical, sociological, and political stories of liberal constitutionalism.
After Sam lays out all of the different fields that After Misogyny contributes to, ranging from feminist legal theory to comparative constitutionalism, Professor Suk explains her focus on the structural and legal aspects of misogyny. We discuss Professor Sukâs appropriation of the term âunjust enrichmentâ from private law, and how it explains what, on her view, is wrong with misogyny. Come with us on a journey through Prohibition and the fight for the Equal Rights Amendment in America and cross the pond to Sweden, Ireland, and France. We round out our wide-ranging conversation discussing the limits, but also the necessity, of legal and constitutional approaches to social problems. All this and more on this weekâs pod â take a listen and find out.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny by Kate Manne
The War on Alcohol by Lisa McGirr
Last Call: The Rise and Fall of Prohibition by Daniel Okrent
Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do about It by Richard Reeves
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This episode, we swap out one legend of legal theory for another. Goodbye David, hello to our guest â the one and only Duncan Kennedy! As part of a course heâs teaching at Yale Law School, Foundations of American Legal Thought, Sam interviewed Professor Kennedy in front of a live audience on March 8, 2023. Professor Kennedy, the Carter Professor of General Jurisprudence, Emeritus, at Harvard Law School, is a legal and social theorist and one of the founding members of the Critical Legal Studies movement.
We learn about Professor Kennedyâs experience as a student at Yale Law School (three cheers for insider baseball) and his experience with so-called generational revolt. Next, we turn to his academic accomplishments: Professor Kennedy discusses some of his early articles, which were instrumental in the origins of the so-called Critical Legal Studies movement. Finally, we conclude the conversation with a discussion of the Law and Political Economy movement. Many of our listeners might be familiar with LPE, and might even have wondered what the CLS vanguard have to say about it. Give this pod a listen to find out.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
The Transformation of American Law, 1780-1860 by Morton Horwitz
âLegal Formalityâ by Duncan Kennedy
The Rise and Fall of Classical Legal Thought by Duncan Kennedy
âForm and Substance in Private Law Adjudicationâ by Duncan Kennedy
Social Thought in America: The Revolt Against Formalism by Morton White
âThe Structure of Blackstoneâs Commentariesâ by Duncan Kennedy
ââ In Defense of Rent Control and Rent Capsâ â by Duncan Kennedy
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This week, weâre joined by dual-wielding complex and aggregate litigation and law of democracy scholar Samuel Issacharoff to discuss his new book Democracy Unmoored: Populism and the Corruption of Popular Sovereignty. Sam Issacharoff, the Bonnie and Richard Reiss Professor of Constitutional Law at NYU Law and one of our leading democratic theorists, has written extensively on the role of courts in strengthening and protecting democracy and the democratic process.
Sam and David begin the podcast by poking the bear â isnât populism a little passe? Professor Issacharoff doesnât back down, pointing to his Argentine background and global focus, as well as his institutional expertise, as offering a new perspective on the conversation. Professor Issacharoff then talks economics and inequality before defending, championing, and even glamorizing (?!) political parties. This is a legal theory podcast, so we turn to courts and his theory of judicial intercession, but itâs also our legal theory podcast, so we learn some theology lessons along the way. We end the way we started, with Sam being a little cheeky and Sam Issacharoff demonstrating the timeliness of his book.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
âWould You Date a Podcast Bro?â by Gina Cherelus Fragile Democracies: Contested Power in the Era of Constitutional Courts by Sam Issacharoff The Narrow Corridor: States, Societies, and the Fate of Liberty by Daron Acemoglu and James A. Robinson âRevenge of the Centrist Dadsâ by Janan Ganesh -
Another episode, another student of David and Samâs on the podcast. Except this time, we have a current student instead of a former one! In this episode, a joint Lillian Goldman Law Library book talk-Digging a Hole production that took place in front of a live audience on January 23, 2023, we interview Yale Law student Jake Mazeitis and Wick Cary Associate Professor at the University of Oklahoma Andrew Porwancher on their book The Prophet of Harvard Law: James Bradley Thayer and His Legal Legacy.
We begin by discussing just who exactly James Bradley Thayer was and his contributions to the structure of American constitutional law. We dive into his intellectual and personal legacies, his litany of students who shaped American jurisprudence, and ruminate on the student-teacher relationship. Our guests develop an idea of what it means to be Thayerian, and how we all live with Thayerâs legacy â and even praise/accuse Sam of being a bona fide Thayerian. Finally, we discuss Thayerâs democratic motivations and the limits of his legal realism before turning it over to the audience for a few questions.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
âConstitutionality Of Legislation: The Precise Question for a Courtâ by James Bradley Thayer âThe Origin and Scope of the American Doctrine of Constitutional Lawâ by James Bradley Thayer âBecoming Brahmin: A Country Boy's Journey to Harvard Yardâ by Andrew Porwancher and Austin Coffey -
Happy new year and welcome to season six of Digging a Hole! Weâre kicking this season off with a bang as Sam welcomes one of his former students â Timothy Shenk! Tim Shenk is an Assistant Professor in History at George Washington University and a prolific public writer who you may have read in the New York Times, Jacobin, or Dissent. More importantly for us, Professor Shenk is the author of the recently published book Realigners: Partisan Hacks, Political Visionaries, and the Struggle to Rule American Democracy.
In this episode, we dive into Realigners. What is a realigner? Who is a realigner? Can we understand the development of American democracy without realigners? The answer to the last question, says Professor Shenk, is no. From Madison to Obama, DuBois to Trump, and especially FDR and the New Deal Coalition, we talk about American history and the history of its greatest political actors as the history of realigners and realignment. And along the way, we discuss what it means to do presentist history and if thereâs any hope for majority-making, self-government, and democracy in America.
This podcast is generously supported by Themis Bar Review.
Referenced Readings
Inventing the People by Edmund Morgan The American Political Tradition by Richard Hofstadter Fear Itself by Ira Katznelson âA Lost Manuscript Shows the Fire Barack Obama Couldnât Reveal on the Campaign Trailâ by Tim Shenk -
Itâs time for an election recap! Weâre joined by Greg Sargent, who covers elections for the Washington Post and who slides into Samâs DMs regularly. We recorded this episode on Friday, November 11th as election returns are still coming in, but itâs clear that the âred waveâ did not transpire. It looks like Democrats will hold the Senate and they have a small hope of retaining the House.
What lessons can we draw from this election (without just confirming our priors and takes)? Were any issues â abortion, inflation, democracy â most salient? Did candidates cover these issues (they certainly didnât run on legislation Congress passed!) and what messaging was relevant to voters? Was candidate quality a bigger element than normal? What's the deal with racial de-polarization? We discuss how to disentangle these factors and their effects on the election nationally, regionally, and in localities.
We also debate what this means for the future of politics and governing. As a starting point, Sam summarizes the argument of his recent article: âItâs time for the Democrats to move past Donald Trump.â Yes, his thesis relates to neoliberalism, and, yes, David disagrees with it (somehow by analogizing it with the SNL cowbell sketch).
We had a very fun discussion with lots of healthy disagreement over the current state of American politics and the future! Weâd love to hear your thoughts, too, sound off on Twitter while itâs still there!
Referenced Readings
âWhy Some States Went in Different Directions in Midterms,â by Nate Cohn âItâs Time for the Democrats to Move Past Donald Trump,â by Samuel Moyn âWhy the Red Wave Didnât Materialize,â by Sohrab Ahmari âResist, Persist, and Transform: The Emergence and Impact of Grassroots Resistance Groups Opposing the Trump Presidency,â by Leah Gose & Theda Skocpol -
In a matter dear to Sam and Daveâs livelihoods, we have a timely podcast to discuss Elon Muskâs Twitter takeover. There is no one better to get into the weeds of this issue than Kate Klonick. Kate is an Associate Professor of Law at St. Johnâs University Law School and a Visiting School at Harvard Universityâs Rebooting Social Media Initiative. She is a leading expert on social media companies, content moderation, and the private governance of online speech.
If you want to understand why Elon Musk bought Twitter and the likely implications, youâve come to the right post. David (Samâs away) begins by asking the obvious â why is Elon doing this and what is his plan? Is he a tech genius or is this a completely irrational pet project? A lot has also been said about Twitterâs content moderation policy and Elonâs purported issues with it. Kate explains to us how Twitterâs policies are unique from those of other social media companies. She also delves into the consequences of Elon messing with these policies and, potentially, laying off much of Twitterâs staff that works on content moderation (right before an election!).
The short- and long-term consequences of this takeover will be felt throughout society, so come learn more!
Referenced Readings
âElon Muskâs Management Style Is a Threat to Global Democracy,â by Kate Klonick âElon Musk, Plus a Circle of Confidants, Tightens Control Over Twitter,â by Mike Isaac, Ryan Mac, & Kate Conger âTwitter, Once a Threat to Titans, Now Belongs to One,â by Kevin Roose âElon Musk is Busy With Twitter,â by Matt Levine âInside the Making of Facebookâs Supreme Court,â by Kate Klonick âImplications of Revenue Models and Technology for Content Moderation Strategies,â by Yi Liu, Pinar Yildirim, & Z. John Zhang -
This week we have Jacob Grumbach on the pod! Jake is an Associate Professor of Political Science at the University of Washington and the producer of fantastic Twitter content @JakeMGrumbach. His new book Laboratories against Democracy discusses the causes and consequences of the nationalization of state politics.
To begin, Jake walks us through the three consequences. First, national partisan and activist groups have nationalized state politics and transformed state governments. Second, this has made policy more varied across states depending on which political party has control in a state. Third, national groups have used state government to suppress the vote, gerrymander, and erode the foundations of democracy. We also dive into the formation and implications of Jakeâs State Democracy Index.
Going beyond the book, we discuss some of our favorite topics. Sam asks for the comparative angle â is nationalization occurring across federal systems worldwide and is nationalization inevitable? David asks about progressive federalism and if state politics is a viable path for liberals seeking national reform. Lastly, we dive into potential solutions to the negative consequences of nationalization of state politics. Should we just abolish states?
This is a really fun episode and we think you'll enjoy it as much as we did!
Referenced Readings
Laboratories against Democracy, by Jacob Grumbach âLaboratories of Democratic Backsliding,â by Jacob Grumbach âPolicy Preferences and Policy Change: Dynamic Responsiveness in the American States, 1936-2014,â by Devin Caughey and Christopher Warshaw âItâs No Longer the Economy, Stupid: Selective Perception and Attribution of Economic Outcomes,â by Sean Freeder The Increasingly United States, by Daniel J. Hopkins Accountability in American Legislatures, by Steven Rodgers âThe Political Economies of Red States,â by Jacob Grumbach, Jacob Hacker, and Paul Pierson âWhy Has Regional Income Convergence in the U.S. Declined?,â by Peter Ganong and Daniel W. Shoag -
Professor Gary Gerstle enters the arena to join our ongoing debate about neoliberalism. Gary, a leading historian of the United States, is the Paul Mellon Professor of American History Emeritus and Paul Mellon Director of Research in American History at the University of Cambridge. On todayâs episode, we discuss his brilliant new book The Rise and Fall of the Neoliberal Order: America and the World in the Free Market Era.
To begin, Gary defines a political order and discusses what happened in the shift from the New Deal political order to the recent neoliberal order. We then debate capitalismâs role in political orders â whether itâs something outside of a political order or rather the source of political order.
After establishing this framing, we analyze, as we often do, modern neoliberalism. David questions if there even was a neoliberal political order, given that recent decades were also marked by increases of government regulation in some areas, such as land use. If there a neoliberal political order, will we look back on it as good, as there have not been world wars and global poverty has fallen? Gary and Sam address Davidâs concerns, and talk about how it was taboo to even use the term neoliberal to describe the political moment until a few years ago.
Throughout our discussion, we situate this book against other scholars and existing theories (see the lengthy reading list)! This is a fascinating topic and we know youâll enjoy hearing about Garyâs latest scholarship.
Referenced Readings
The Rise and Fall of the Neoliberal Order: America and the World in the Free Market Era, by Gary Gerstle Liberty and Coercion: The Paradox of American Government from the Founding to the Present, by Gary Gerstle âThe Rise and Fall(?) of Americaâs Neoliberal Order,â by Gary Gerstle âHow âNeoliberalismâ Became the Leftâs Favorite Insult of Liberals,â by Jonathan Chait âThe Uses and Abuses of Neoliberalism,â by Daniel Rodgers Public Citizens: The Attack on Big Government and the Remaking of American Liberalism, by Paul Sabin The Triumph of Broken Promises: The End of the Cold War and the Rise of Neoliberalism, by Fritz Bartel Family Values: Between Neoliberalism and the New Social Conservatism, by Melinda Cooper The End of History and the Last Man, by Francis Fukuyama âRegulation and the Collapse of the New Deal Order, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Market,â by Reuel Schiller -
Another podcast, another Metropolitan movie reference. This time we are joined by our colleague and friend, Taisu Zhang, Professor of Law at Yale Law School. We give you a sneak peak of Professor Zhangâs new book The Ideological Foundations of Qing Taxation: Belief Systems, Politics, and Institutions, which comes out in November. Taisu starts by explaining why understanding the Qing dynasty is a prerequisite to understanding the modern era of Chinese history and modern Chinese politics. We then debate theories of the Great Divergence, or why many countries in the Western world emerged as the most powerful economies in the 19th and 20th centuries while Qing China, Mughal India, and others failed to launch. Taisu argues that the absence of the Chinese fiscal state and agricultural taxes led to a military and economic decline because of a lack of state investment. He also argues that the Qing dynasty was wrong to assume that agricultural taxes would lead to rebellion, pointing to similar taxation elsewhere in the world.
As we love to do here at Digging a Hole, we also took a step back to think about broader methodological and institutional questions. First, Sam and Taisu discuss humanist and social science approaches to history and causal arguments. Taisu intentionally makes his work structured, clear, and empirically falsifiable, putting it against most causal theories of Chinese fiscal decline, which are done by economists. Second, David jumps in to ask whether the broader question here is about institutions. Can divergence be explained by excessive centralization in the Qing government or the role of underdeveloped financial markets? In addition, we delve in constitutional questions and interrogate whether Qing China had a constitutional system and the role that system played.
Referenced Readings
The Ideological Foundations of Qing Taxation: Belief Systems, Politics, and Institutions, by Taisu Zhang The Laws and Economics of Confucianism: Kinship and Property in Pre-Industrial China and England, by Taisu Zhang - Mehr anzeigen
