Episodios

  • Understanding and making sense of our emotions is absolutely essential to living well. We have parts of our brain that are responsible for making sense of our emotions. We also have parts of our brain dedicated to mapping the emotional state of those around us. Sometimes couples come to me for coaching because they don't feel emotionally connected to their spouse. There are a myriad of reasons why they're struggling in this area.

    So I invited Dr. Glen hill, a marriage therapist, and his wife, Phyllis, onto this podcast to talk about their story and about the role of emotional connection in marriages. One thing I learned is when we use the word connection, we mean it in like, "We're not connected," in a negative connotation.

    But the reality is, we are often connected, whether we like it or not. Sometimes we like the way we're connected or sometimes we don't like the way we're adversarially connected and fighting a lot. So learning to understand the difference between connection you like and and connection you don't like is an important step forward in learning how to communicate emotionally with your spouse a whole lot better .

    In fact, in this episode, Glenn and Phyllis are so vulnerable and they share a practice about how they relate to each other emotionally. My wife and I have been doing this practice daily for about eight months now, sp I can personally vouch for this. I encourage couples like coach to try this practice as well!

    Get the Free Core Emotions Wheel referenced in the episode here.

    If you've enjoyed this episode, you might like these resources:

    Intimately Us App

    Couples Retreat in St. George, UT, October 10-13

    Our brand new, signature Get Your Marriage On Program!

  • I'm humbled that you'd trust me with your most urgent and private questions--I receive anonymous questions every day through our website. We address a handful of these questions today and I'll plan another Q &A episode in a few weeks. Sometimes I'll combine a few related questions together to address things more efficiently. (Go to our website to submit your questions.)

    As I address these questions today, I hope you see a common thread in everything I share. It's my belief that really good sex and intimacy doesn't come easily because everything of value in life takes consistent effort.

    Building an intimate marriage isn't supposed to be an overnight task. I want to invite you to think of it in this way: the obstacles you experienced in intimacy in your relationship is God's way of calling you to step in and grow up a little more in yourself and in your relationship with your spouse. Think of it as an invitation to learn how to take more personal responsibility, to learn to speak up, to learn, to be more humble, to be more honest, to be more patient, to be more kind, to be more compassionate, and to cherish your spouse more deeply than ever. Building a rewarding intimate marriage is indeed spiritual work.

    I also believe sex is very core to who we are as an individual. Sex is so very personal. As a marriage coach, I solve sexual issues in the marriage first (with lots of compassion, by the way). These are delicate and real feelings, but if a couple can get the courage to address and work through their sexual difficulties first everything else in their marriage becomes a lot easier.

    Whether it be finances, parenting in-laws, faith matters, or what direction the toilet paper roll should be loaded on the dispenser. I'm very grateful you've joined us today! Get ready to dive into these wonderful questions!

    If you've enjoyed this episode, you might like these resources:

    Intimately Us App

    Couples Retreat in St. George, UT, October 10-13

    Our brand new, signature Get Your Marriage On Program!

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  • Picture this. The journey of building an intimate marriage is much like a road trip through winding paths and scenic routes. Sometimes there's traffic jams. Sometimes there are stretches of long, boring highways or lonely, dark nighttime drives. Sometimes there are flat tires and detours. And then there are beautiful vistas, new destinations at thrilling speeds, and awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping scenes that move you in a profound way, leaving you forever changed.

    My guest today is Dr. Julie Slattery of Authentic Intimacy. She's a psychotherapist that helps Christian women embrace their sexuality. You'll get to hear Dr. Slattery open up about her own adventures and misadventures in marriage. Everything from those awkward honeymoon moments to the deeper challenges of connecting on all levels. She reminds me that while these bumps in the road are common, they're also prime opportunities for growth, not just individually, but together with our spouses.

    If you find the important and meaningful work of building an intimate marriage isn't as easy as you think it would have been, don't fret. You're not alone in this. In fact, every couple, even us, faces their own set of challenges behind closed doors. And that's okay. These hurdles don't have to define your relationship. It's about how we overcome these challenges that matters. As I think about my own moments of growth and building an intimate marriage with my wife, Emily, many of these moments were born out of my stumbling blocks that have turned into stepping stones for me.

    You'll love hearing about Dr. Julie Slattery's four pillars for a rock solid intimate relationship and stay to the end to hear her black belt sex tip too.

    ***

    We just launched our new signature Get Your Marriage On Program! The program not only offers extensive instruction, but it's coupled with lifetime coaching and community! Learn more about it on our website!

    We have two retreat options coming up:

    Virtual Retreat: July 12-14. Enjoy from the comfort of your home or hotel. More details coming. In person Retreat: October 10-13 in St. George, UT. Get all the details on our website and register now!

    As always, make sure you're enjoying our free app, Intimately Us. And join us over on Instagram or Facebook @getyourmarriageon.

  • I feel called to this important work that I do in Get Your Marriage On! It is extremely important and meaningful work to me. The changes I've experienced in my own marriage were too good to keep to myself, and I wanted to share it with others. In some ways, I feel like I'm a missionary again--sharing the good news of the gospel to others. In fact, I strongly believe that there are many parallels between sexual development and spiritual development, and I'm not alone in sharing that opinion.

    Today, I invited Amy, Greg and Tammy, who are my colleagues and coaches in my programs and also at my retreats, to have a conversation about the most recent retreat as well as our new program. I want you to listen to the passion and empathy behind their voices. These are people that deeply care about you, your happiness in your marriage, and providing every tool possible to help you get your marriage on.

    ***

    We just launch a BRAND NEW PROGRAM today! I hope you'll check it out and take the next leap to take your marriage to the next level!

    Also, as you'll hear in the episode, we had such a great time at the retreat a couple weeks ago, we've decided to make it happen again this year! Mark your calendars for October 10-13, and register today on our website!

  • I believe sex is a very powerful language. Just think an immense amount of information is communicated between two people in any sexual interaction.

    Last year, my wife and I read the book Replenish, by Tammy Hill. Among other things, this book describes a practice called orgasmic meditation.

    We went away for a weekend last fall and decided to give it a try. It was amazing for us because it made sex so much more about a meaningful connection and communication between us, rather than just rushing to orgasm.

    We liked the orgasmic meditation practice so much that it's become a regular routine in our marriage bed for several months.

    Now I wanted to do a podcast episode about it and Tammy Hill, who is a marriage and family therapist and a sex therapist and author of the book I just mentioned, kindly agreed to come on my podcast as a guest. This is a real treat for me to have her here and to share her immense wisdom with me.

    We talk about the principles behind slow sex, or orgasmic mediation, how to do it, and why you want to try it out!

  • Can you relate? Growing up in a good, Christian family, you conversations about sex were mostly about biological reproduction or God's word on chastity.

    Perhaps those conversations served you well as a teenager, but after married, you're left with a lot of questions and maybe even painful experiences as the realities of sex and marriage didn't fit with what you thought it would be.

    I used to think sexuality and spirituality were incompatible.

    However, after digging into our own Christian theology, I came to understand that it supports embodiment, sensuality, and sexuality in a very positive way. I look around and I see a God who is powerful, creative, passionate, and very personal. Of all the religions, I think ours ought to be the most sex positive.

    Even if you're not a Christian, there's no denying that some of the most meaningful experiences we can have is being loved and desired deeply by another person and experiencing a special kind of pleasure. And this experience is spiritual and transcendent.

    My guest today is Francie Winslow, a friend and the fellow podcaster. And here's some of what we talk about:

    Francie's story of sexual healing and growth How frequency of sexual experiences doesn't automatically translate to quality of sexual experiences How sex fits with spirituality Connected to the deeper meaning of sensuality to God's design for us Advice on creating margin in your lifestyle, so you have time and energy leftover to invest in your marriage relationship Francie's black belt sex tip at the end, which my wife and I have tried it out since the time we recorded this episode. We had such a great time doing it, we're definitely going to make it a regular part of what we do!

    Find out more!

    You can also find this episode on our YouTube channel!

    You may also be interested in following us on Instagram or downloading our free app, Intimately Us!

  • For anyone listening that wishes intimacy was less conflict and more connection, this episode is for you!

    I messed up

    Two weeks ago, I released a podcast episode about dead bedrooms. I read an email from a man who is in a lot of pain around his relationship. So I addressed areas where I could see that he could work on in his relationship, but unfortunately, that episode lacked compassion and I was wrong. So I want another chance to do it again properly this time.

    I've been there before

    I've been there before, to an extent, where the quality of the intimate relationship isn't what you hope it could be. It can be extremely frustrating, lonely, and even hopeless at times when you feel like you're stuck in a relationship where everything else seems to be going well, except when it comes to sex.

    For the spouse with the higher desire, he or she feels rejected and hurt. For the lower desire spouse, he or she feels confused and overwhelmed.

    Good sex is important for a thriving marriage

    As I've stated before, I believe good sex is healthy for a thriving growing marriage relationship. Sex can be replenishing for the relationship. It can be bonding has many health benefits and breeds life into an otherwise mundane partnership.

    However, according to Justin Lee Miller PhD, he's a sex researcher he says about one in seven americans are in relationships with little to no sex. There are probably as many reasons as there are couples for why they've developed that pattern of intimacy avoidance in their marriages. It's hard to make generalizations in this area.

    But I am on a mission to eliminate poverty and bedrooms everywhere. I want to help couples overcome their challenges that inhibit them from fully giving generously and fully receiving the goodness that an intimate marriage can provide.

    I received many emails from people who are confused and struggling in their marriage and I'm grateful for your emails and your messages. With their permission. I want to share another email today. The names and other identifying details have changed, but their story is a real story.

    My co-host, Amy Langford, has been a guest on my podcast before (see episode number 101). She's a very talented marriage and intimacy coach, and works with me in my Next Level Program and teaches and coaches alongside me at our marriage retreats!

  • Today we get to talk about some really exciting topics as we answer your questions from the anonymous question form on our website:

    How to deal with sex and intimacy while you're pregnant and postpartum. What to do when you're hesitant about taking sexy photos or nude photos of each other. What to do when you have a spouse as obsessed with swinging and you disagree with it. What to do when a masturbation habit is interfering with intimacy and pleasure for the couple.

    I really appreciate your willing to open your heart and trust me with some of the difficulties that you're facing when it comes to sex and intimacy in your marriage. I hope you find something helpful in our discussion today.

    I love and care about you. I think about you're constantly and that prepare these podcasts episodes with you in mind.

    If there other future topics that you would like me to address, please reach out to me. And if you want to submit an anonymous question, you can do so on our website. I love to hear what's on your mind and how I can help you in your marriage. That's what I love to do.

    Looking for more?

    I have something big in the works: a brand new program! It's a way to bring much of what happens at the retreat to a more accessible, self-paced format. So stay tuned for that.

    Follow us on Instagram @getyourmarriageon.com

    Get all our apps and resources on our website: getyourmarriageon.com

  • I'm excited to answer some anonymous questions I have received from listeners.

    Some topics we cover include the following:

    Learning to dirty talk and flirt more How to deal with undesireable sexual side effects from medications Self-Soothing Overcoming gridlock The use of bondage in a marriage bed When grief affects sexuality Masturbation and more!

    If you would like to submit an anonymous question for me to answer on the podcast, on Instagram, or in an email, you can do so on our website.

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    We have an exciting new program coming up at the end of March! Watch your email newsletter for more information!

  • We recently hit a major milestone with this podcast: 1 million downloads! Thank you for your support!

    Let's be honest here. Initiating sex is not easy at all. We want the other person to take charge and initiate, right? We worry, how are we going to be received? There's also so much of ourselves wrapped up in what it means to initiate, or not initiate, sex. And past experiences tend to influence our reluctance to initiate as well. Yet, the reality is if one of you doesn't initiate sex, sex is never going to happen in your relationship.

    So why is initiating sex so hard? What are some common reasons why people, me included, struggle to initiate sex sometimes? How do we get better at this very intimate act of bidding for sexual connection?

    I've been pondering these questions lately, and I'm grateful to meet up with James Christiansen, a licensed marriage and family therapist from Roseville, California. You'll quickly find out that he has a brilliant sharp mind and quickly cuts right to the heart of the matter.

    And this episode, we're going to talk about what's at the heart of initiating sex, because it gets a lot deeper than what you're probably thinking. And by the end of this episode, hopefully you'll take more courageous action to cherish your spouse more than before.

    Links referenced in the episode:

    ⬇️ Download the Intimately Us and get in on the Sextimacy Challenge before it's over!

    🌟 Get info on the DIY Boudoir Date Night Box

    🙋 Snag the last spot at our couples retreat coming up in just 5 weeks!

  • Do you wish you could have more powerful, more pleasurable orgasms? Or to not need to cross your legs when you sneeze? Or jump on the trampoline like you used to before kids?

    Studies show only about 30% of women have an orgasm from penetration. But perhaps that number could be higher if your pelvic floor (the muscles in and around your vagina) were in better condition.

    Research also shows that the stronger and healthier your pelvic floor muscles are, the more pleasure you’ll find from orgasms (the orgasm is the most powerful pelvic floor contraction possible!), and no pain from intercourse too!

    Our special guest Pauli Hannan is a Pelvic Floor Physical Therapist that specializes in helping women have a better life with a healthier pelvic floor.

    She’s created No Kegel University, where she debunks the idea that you need to do more Kegel exercises or buy vaginal ben-wa balls to strengthen your pelvic floor.

    This episode is an abridged version of a live 90-minute workshop, and you can watch the full replay on our website.

    Although this content is directed towards women, men are invited to learn along. After all, men have pelvic floors that need strengthening too!

  • Today I want to talk about embracing your eroticism. This is a beautiful part of being human; your eroticism is going to be unique to you just as your fingerprints are unique to you!

    In this episode, we're going to address the following common questions:

    What is eroticism? Why is eroticism such an important part of a thriving marriage? Why are most people afraid of it? How do you figure out what your eroticism is? How do you figure out what gets you going? How do you cultivate more of this goodness in your life?

    And, we also give you some fun "would you rather" questions you can use as a spring board to understand your own and your spouse's erotic interests.

    ---

    Resources we mentioned in the episode:

    DIY Boudoir Date Night Box: We've teamed up with EveryLove Intimates to bring you this kit that brings the magic of a professional boudoir photoshoot right to the comfort of your home!

    Couples Retreat (only 3 spots left!)

    Picture this: sunny days, red rock landscapes, and outdoor adventures, coupled with a perfect balance of powerful instruction on sex and intimacy, personalized expert coaching, relaxed downtime (wink wink), in a supportive environment. So why not register today before someone else takes your spot? Come join us in March!

    Just Between Us app: This app is linked directly to your spouse and it encrypts everything so you never have to worry about your intimate photos or conversations accidentally going to someone unintended!

  • DIY or professionally done, boudoir photography has the potential to empower women and open their minds and hearts to their own inherent beauty, as well as add an extra spark and intimacy to a marriage.

    I discuss this and more with my guest today, Sierra Beltran, an experienced photographer from Arizona. In this podcast episode, we talk about the following in our deep dive on boudoir photography:

    How it can benefit you and your marriage What to expect What common objections there are to having boudoir photos done Concerns about faith and nudity Ways to feel more confident in your photos How to do your own boudoir photography at home with a lot of fantastic DIY tips from a professional

    If you're interested in DIY boudoir photography at home, I have two fantastic resources for you!

    EveryLove Intimated DIY Boudoir Photography Date Night Box. We have partnered with EveryLove Intimates, one of our favorite lingerie and date night box brands to create a DIY Photo box. This box comes with everything you need for a memorable at-home boudoir experience and date night. My wife and I recently did the DIY session with the items in this box, and it has definitely easily become one of our top 10, most memorable date nights. Just Between Us App. If you want to share your photos with your spouse, you can do it safely on this app. It encrypts everything so you never have to worry about your intimate photos or conversations accidentally going to someone unintended. Also, there's a feature where you can take photos now and send them later.
  • Sex can be hard for couples for many reasons. And if you feel like it's hard for you right now, you're not alone. Sex is so highly personal and it's a very anxious behavior, yet it's also at the core of who we are. So it's like this dichotomy: we want to be close to another person, yet, in order to get there, we have to overcome a lot of nervousness and anxiety in order to enjoy that. And by the way, sex is so much more than just two bodies bumping into each other; our minds and our spirits are highly involved in sex as well.

    Humans are the only species on earth capable of making meaning in sex. Dogs don't have sex and think, "Oh, he really loves me." Or, "She was really into that." Dogs and other animals don't do that. It's a very human thing to find meaning in sex. And, that's a double-edged sword for a lot of people.

    The anxiety in sex make sex a horrible experience or a difficult experience to enjoy for some people. But the flip side of that is the transcendent capacity for deep connection that can come through sex. It is one of the most unique human and wonderful things about being a person.

    So in this episode, we dive deep into why sex can be hard for couples. Understanding our hangups and why we have them is the first step to overcoming them!

    --

    Valentine's Day is coming up, and that means so is our 14-Day Sextimacy Challenge! Watch the Intimately Us app for more details!

    Our free workshop coming up on January 19 will be all about increasing pelvic floor health. Strong pelvic floors benefit us in so many ways. I hope you'll join us! Details will be hitting your inbox soon.

    The life-changing Get Your Marriage On! couples retreat is coming up just around the corner. There are only a couple weeks left to sign up before registrations are closed! Grab your spot today!

  • Who in your relationship has more of a say in general, who in your relationship organizes themselves around the other more? Are there any unaddressed resentments that you deal with in your relationship right now, do some things feel just one sided in your marriage? Couples that thrive have a shared sense of power in the relationship power in this context is defined as note shared power shared influence.

    One person can receive the influence from the other. The moment we start creating hierarchies in our relationship. Meaning one person is more important than the other, or the general order of things goes like, no, God husband, wife, for example. When we create these hierarchies in our relationship, we set ourselves up for power struggles and this often undermines sexual desire and intimacy in the marriage. I work with couples that want to grow their sexual relationship.

    And that's one of the purposes of this podcast. The reality is you grow the sexual relationship by strengthening the marriage and upgrading the relationship dynamic. One way to quickly improve your sex life is by paying close attention to the power dynamics at play in a relationship. And some of them might be invisible to you or very covert. My guest today is Bonnie Young.

    She's a licensed marriage and family therapist licensed in Utah in Washington state. She's also currently working on her PhD.

    She's super smart, caring. And as you'll get to know, very experienced in this topic we're going to talk about today.

    She's also a mom of two, almost three children and runs a mental health clinic with almost a dozen therapists working for her in two states in her spare time.

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    Ready to level up your marriage this year? Check out our romantic and life-changing marriage retreat coming up this March!

    ---

    For more fun, connection, and intimacy daily, download our free app: Intimately Us

  • Five years ago, around the campfire with friends, one man told me about this amazing trip he and his wife made to Thailand where they camped out on the beach in this pristine tropical bay. And another friend told me about his trip to the Dominican Republic at is all inclusive resort, just he and his wife. And another guy talked about this cruise, he and his wife went on and all these fun and exciting trips with just their wives.

    And I was so, feeling sorry for myself. I had extreme case of FOMO. I wanted to get away with my wife, but I just felt like I couldn't because of the circumstances in my life.

    Long story short, we finally made that trip happen. We had so much fun and we just really needed this time together, this time away. And that experience of getting away just the two of us really nourished our relationship and boosted us like nothing else. So since that time we've gone at least on one weekend away together every three months, about four times a year, and it's become something we really look forward to doing in our marriage.

    And it's become a staple for helping our relationship thrive.

    In this episode, you get to hear a little bit more about this vacation my wife and I finally went on, but you also hear from a Romance Consultant, Joise McEwen, about how to plan your own romantic getaway, how to make vacation sex successful, and hopefully gain inspiration to make a getaway a goal for your marriage.

    ---

    If you want to take you getaway up a level, check out our couples retreat coming up in March! Get all the details at getyourmarriageon.com/couples-retreat/.

    And if you're looking for ways to add fun and spice to the bedroom on the regular, on vacation or not, check out the Intimately Us app!

  • For a lot of couples, Christmastime is a really stressful time of the year. There's a lot of end of year projects for work and school; there's also gift shopping and preparations for guests and meals and Christmas cards and dinners and parties, and the list just keeps going on and on and on.

    And if you have children, it just multiplies the complexity by every child that you have in your home.

    But Christmastime can also be a very special, sexy time of year. Think about it. Think of all the romantic, Christmas-themed movies that we love. Think about the time you get a snuggle by a fire. Think about the fun that you can have with your spouse when the world kind of slows down for a little bit. It can become a very sexy time.

    In fact, a friend pointed out to me that, in the United States at least, we have the highest birth rate at the end of August, early September. I didn't believe him. So I double checked it. And it's true! In the United States, we have the most births in late August, early September. Which means most people are being conceived around Christmas time.

    And I want this to be a very sexy time for you too! So I'm going to offer you 12 sexy Christmastime tips in this episode!

    Helpful links:

    Intimately Us

    Get Your Marriage On! Couples Retreat

    Tammy Hill's book, Replenish

  • There's something magical about setting aside three to four days away with your spouse, where you can relax and have fun and enjoy working on aspects of your relationship that are going to give you a big boost and forward momentum.

    And our Get Your Marriage On! retreat next March could be just the thing to help renew and revitalize your marriage like it did for the past attendees you'll hear from in this episode.

    Find out more about what is included, what the retreat is like, and most importantly, the results for the couples who have come in the past. (Hint: they were transformative!)

    I hope you'll join us in March 2024 for this life-changing experience! Get all the details here: https://getyourmarriageon.com/couples-retreat/

  • Picture this: It's a typical day. You're lying in bed. Snoozing your alarm clock for the third time, your resolve to get to the gym weakening. You were interrupted again last night from a child that needed you. And as you awake the demands of the day, press on you. Lists appear in your mind what shopping needs to be done, which child has which appointment, the field trip that you volunteered to go on, the assignment at church you agreed to do, and so on and so on.

    You get out of bed already tired to go about your morning routine. But today, a genie appears and grants you a special wish for one day. You can do what you want to do. What would you decide? What would you do?

    Have you lost yourself?

    My friend and guest, Ariel Finlinson, years ago was in a situation where her husband and kids are going to be out of town for a few days.

    And she had an entire weekend to herself. She had no idea what she'd do with her time. That's the day she realized that she had somehow lost herself in motherhood. She had lost touch of herself, lost the relationship with herself in her busy and noble life of mothering.

    As you know, this podcast is dedicated to helping Christian couples get out of a rut in their sex life. Today's topic isn't sexy, per se, but it's really important and ties into developing a stronger sex life. The relationship with ourselves is crucial to our relationship with others. You can't give from an empty well, and you can't lift others to higher ground if you're not on higher ground yourself.

    Ariel recently received her master's degree in family life education. She's super fun, sharp. And the host at the Ladies Talking Love podcast.

    Today, we're going to talk about five ideas for mothers to reconnect with themselves in their life.

    Click here for Ariel's free download, "Find Yourself After Kids," that we mentioned in the episode.

    Take Care of Yourself and Your Relationship

    Something you can do to nourish yourself, get some rest, have fun and connect with your spouse in a deeper, profound way is to get away once in a while together.

    And there's no better way to do that than to attend our upcoming couples retreat in March. Registration is open and you won't want to miss it.

    During the retreat, we'll do a deep dive into your relationship and give you real practical tools to help you get out of a rut, do away with resentment and free yourself from the frustrations and limitations you currently face.

    You'll walk away from this retreat feeling rejuvenated with lots of hope in your relationship and just feeling great together again. And this retreat is also balanced with a lot of fun activities like ATVing in the desert or canyoneering near Zion national park. To make this an unforgettable weekend, sign up today!

  • Today is a Q &A episode. I get anonymous questions, which you can send me through my website, and I go through those regularly.

    And today we're going to address a few of the common questions that I'm getting in this podcast episode. Today, we're going to cover topics such as the following:

    How to get more comfortable with flirting, dirty talk wearing lingerie, etc, as a newlywed. How do you ask for things in bed? Premature ejaculation. A concern from a wife about how her husband has some excessive masturbation habits How do you talk about difficult things with their spouse when they tend to shut down and withdraw?

    Now I have a very special invitation for you.

    You're invited to join us for our next marriage retreat that we will have here in my hometown, St. George Utah. St. George is like a Mecca for outdoor living. It's got red rocks. It's in the desert. It's got world-renowned canyons, like the Zion National Park and Snow Canyon. We're going to spend some of that time outside ATVing in the desert or canyoneering out by the national parks.

    We'll also have this beautiful location that we've picked out. It's private. We've rented out the entire resort. And you get to have instruction with me and my team. We talk, we do a deep dive in your relationship, taking it apart, putting it back together and upgrading your marriage. Make this time in March, be the thing that would give you forward momentum in your relationship to build a strong you in 2024. We only have 20 spots for this.

    So the time to act is now you can register at, get your marriage on.com and click on couples retreat. And while you're there, look at some of that testimonials and videos of others that have attended the retreat. So you get an idea for what it's like.