The Glenn Show – Podcast

Episodes

Shep Melnick – The Crucible of Desegregation
15 Sep· The Glenn Show
0:00 Biden’s new DEI initiatives
7:59 The disparate uses of disparate impact
13:59 Shep’s new book, The Crucible of Desegregation: The Uncertain Search for Educational Equality
23:15 The problem with claims that education is resegregating
29:56 Are we heading back to the bussing debates of the 1970s?
35:52 Shep’s book, The Transformation of Title IX: Regulating Gender Equality in Education
44:20 Glenn’s “uncle” objects to analogies between trans people and African Americans
47:58 Shep: Banning Critical Race Theory is the wrong strategy
Recorded September 8, 2023
Links and Readings
Shep’s new book, The Crucible of Desegregation: The Uncertain Search for Educational Equality
Heather Mac Donald’s book, When Race Trumps Merit: How the Pursuit of Equity Sacrifices Excellence, Destroys Beauty, and Threatens Lives
Gary Orfield’s book, The Reconstruction of Southern Education: The Schools and the 1964 Civil Rights Act
James Fishkin’s book, Justice, Equal Opportunity, and the Family
Shep’s book, The Transformation of Title IX: Regulating Gender Equality in Education
John Skretny’s book, The Minority Rights Revolution
Robin DiAngelo’s book, White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism

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John McWhorter – Whose Election Narrative?
8 Sep· The Glenn Show
0:00 Can a white man tell Harriet Tubman’s story?
9:59 What the fall semester has in store for Glenn and John
17:25 How John makes the sausage at the New York Times
22:55 John: We now memorize rap lyrics instead of poetry
36:18 Is wokeness on the wane?
42:12 What John just doesn’t get about Carol Swain
51:46 A Democrat by any other name
56:50 John makes a wild prediction about Trump
Recorded August 31, 2023
Links and Readings
The Philadelphia Harriet Tubman statue
John’s NYT piece, “Two Languages Walk into a Bar”
John’s NYT piece, “How Hip-Hop Became America’s Poetry”
Oliver Anthony’s song, “Rich Men North of Richmond”
Jason Aldean’s song, “Try That in a Small Town”
Donald Trump’s mugshot
Sabrina Salvati’s YouTube channel
Carol Swain’s recent TGS episode
Carol Swain’s book, Black Faces, Black Interests: The Representation of African Americans in Congress
Dinesh D’Souza’s film, 2000 Mules
Carol Swain’s PragerU videos

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August 2023 Q&A
6 Sep· The Glenn Show
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Carol Swain – The Adversity of Diversity
1 Sep· The Glenn Show
0:00 Why Carol joined Black Voices for Trump
9:59 Why should black people support Trump?
16:31 Carol: Democrats stole the 2020 election
26:07 Does Trump face a credible assassination threat?
30:35 The redefinition of white supremacy
35:51 Deracializing the crime debate
39:58 Carol’s new book, The Adversity of Diversity: How Real Training Can Promote Healing in a Post-Affirmative Action World
50:55 Glenn: Affirmative action is one thing, DEI is another
1:04:54 Clarence Thomas v. Ketanji Brown Jackson
1:08:06 What affirmative action did right
Recorded August 26, 2023
Links and Readings
Carol and Mike Towle’s new book, The Adversity of Diversity: How Real Training Can Promote Healing in a Post-Affirmative Action World
Carol’s Godfather III Twitter (now X) post
Reuters story on Harrison Floyd
Jason Riley’s book, The Black Boom
Tucker Carlson’s debate night interview with Donald Trump
Carol’s book, The New White Nationalism in America: Its Challenge to Integration
Carol and Christopher J. Schorr’s book, Black Eye for America: How Critical Race Theory Is Burning Down the House

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John McWhorter – Sixteen Years of "The Black Guys"
25 Aug· The Glenn Show
0:00 A sixteen-year-long conversation
5:45 Race and socioeconomics on the cusp of the Obama Era
21:19 The myth of black poverty and deindustrialization
32:56 Glenn pulls rank
37:59 Why Glenn changed his mind about the Manhattan Institute
50:15 Is the think tank world any more “objective” than academia?
Recorded August 19, 2023
Links and Readings
Glenn and John’s first conversation from November 7, 2007
John’s book, Losing the Race: Self-Sabotage in Black America
John’s book, Winning the Race: Beyond the Crisis in Black America
Glenn’s book, The Anatomy of Racial Inequality
Martin Peretz’s memoir, The Controversialist: Arguments with Everyone, Left, Right, and Center
Jeffrey O.C. Ogbar’s book, Hip-Hop Revolution: The Culture and Politics of Rap
Charles Murray’s book, Losing Ground: American Social Policy, 1950-1980
Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein’s book, The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life

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Haim Shweky – An American-Israeli at the Ukrainian Front
18 Aug· The Glenn Show
0:00 Haim’s history with The Glenn Show
7:54 How Haim ended up fighting in Ukraine
17:42 The legionnaire’s lingua franca
27:55 Haim’s riposte to Cornel West on Ukraine
42:27 A pen in one hand and a gun in the other
47:56 Haim: Ukraine’s sovereignty and national identity must be respected
53:34 Is the two-state solution dead?
Recorded July 23, 2023
Links and Readings
Haim’s writing for this newsletter
Haim’s Substack, The Garland
Glenn’s recent conversation with Cornel West
Haim and Nikita Petrov’s exchange on the Ukraine War
Nikita’s Substack, Psychopolitica

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John McWhorter & Ian Buruma – The Spirit of Wokeness
11 Aug· The Glenn Show
0:00 The protestant ethic and the spirit of wokeness
10:47 Is comparing wokeness to religion a slander on religion?
21:08 Ian: Wokeness is a distraction from real political problems
28:02 How Ian experienced his own cancelation
41:31 America’s exportation of wokeness
45:45 Has wokeness aided and abetted Trump and Brexit?
52:54 John: Enslaved people did find ways to improve their own lives
Recorded August 7, 2023
Links and Readings
Ian’s Harper’s piece, “Doing the Work”
John’s book, Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America
Jian Ghomeshi’s 2018 NYRB piece, “Reflections from a Hashtag”
Tomiwa Owolade’s book, This is Not America: Why Black Lives in Britain Matter
David Brooks’s NYT oped, “What if We’re the Bad Guys Here?”
John’s NYT oped, “One Sentence Does Not Define a Curriculum”
The Florida Board of Education’s 2023 standards for social studies
Robert Cherry’s essay on slavery at this newsletter

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July 2023 Q&A
9 Aug· The Glenn Show
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Jay Caspian Kang – Affirmative Elitism
4 Aug· The Glenn Show
0:00 How Jay’s position on affirmative action changed
12:15 Jay: I can’t see the virtue in affirmative action as it’s practiced
20:07 Why did so many Asian students defend policies that discriminated against Asians?
25:35 The hidden cultural argument in the California Mathematics Framework
32:01 Is the “people of color coalition” coming apart?
34:55 Why so little outrage over the SCOTUS affirmative action decision?
42:26 When students internalize artificial trauma narratives
49:06 America can’t economically decouple itself from China. Will anti-China rhetoric wane?
55:49 What will and won’t change in the wake of Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard
1:05:29 Isn’t there some value to diversity in education?
Recorded July 24, 2023
Links and Readings
Jay’s New Yorker piece, “Why the Champions of Affirmative Action Had to Leave Asian Americans Behind”
Jay’s book, The Loneliest Americans
Jay’s podcast with E. Tammy Kim, Time to Say Goodbye
Jay’s 2019 New York Times Magazine piece, “Where Does Affirmative Action Leave Asian-Americans?”
Jennifer Lee and Min Zhou’s book, The Asian American Achievement Paradox
Natasha Warikoo’s book, Race at the Top: Asian Americans and Whites in Pursuit of the American Dream in Suburban Schools
The California Mathematics Framework
Roland Fryer’s NYT piece, “How to Fix College Admissions Now”

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John McWhorter and Peter Arcidiacono – The Economics of SFFA v. Harvard
28 Jul· The Glenn Show
0:00 Peter’s role in the Supreme Court affirmative action case
8:57 Are legacy admissions affirmative action by another name?
19:17 Why Peter got interested in affirmative action
24:20 Glenn was for affirmative action before he was against it
30:33 Peter: Universities are not honest about admissions
34:20 The brilliance of Roland Fryer
51:17 Campus diversity after affirmative action
Recorded July 22, 2023
Links and Readings
Glenn’s 2020 conversation with Peter
Peter’s paper, “What happens after enrollment? An analysis of the time path of racial differences in GPA and major choice”
Mary Sue Coleman on the steps of the Supreme Court
John’s book, Losing the Race: Self-Sabotage in Black America
Roland Fryer’s paper, “An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force”
Federico Echenique and Roland Fryer’s paper, “A Measure of Segregation Based on Social Interactions”
David Austen-Smith and Roland Fryer’s paper, “The Economics of ‘Acting White’”

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Matt Johnson – The Lessons of Christopher Hitchens
21 Jul· The Glenn Show
0:00 How Matt first encountered Christopher Hitchens
6:07 Matt’s new book, How Hitchens Can Save the Left: Rediscovering Fearless Liberalism in an Age of Counter-Enlightenment
8:00 Why Matt thinks Cornel West’s Vietnam-Afghanistan analogy is flawed
14:21 What’s worth preserving in the left-liberal tradition?
21:38 Matt: Identity politics is a “toxin”
27:20 Was affirmative action ever necessary?
35:29 Matt: I wish the left would rediscover Hitchens’s universalism
45:04 Hitchens’s “fearless liberalism”
Recorded July 6, 2023
Links and Readings
Matt’s new book, How Hitchens Can Save the Left: Rediscovering Fearless Liberalism in an Age of Counter-Enlightenment
Hitchens’s NYRB review of Douglas Murray’s Bosie: A Biography of Lord Alfred Douglas
Hitchens’s book, Why Orwell Matters
George Orwell’s book, Keep The Aspidistra Flying
Glenn’s recent conversation with Cornel West
Matt’s Quilette essay on John Mearsheimer
Matt’s Quillette essay on Bayard Rustin
Jonathan Eig’s King: A Life
Nathan Glazer’s book, Affirmative Discrimination: Ethnic Inequality and Public Policy
Roland Fryer’s NYT oped, “How to Fix College Admissions Now”
Glenn’s debate with Hitchens
Ta-Nehisi Coates’s Atlantic essay, “The Case for Reparations”
Bayard Rustin’s 1965 Commentary essay, “From Protest to Politics: The Future of the Civil Rights Movement”
Norman Finkelstein’s book, I’ll Burn That Bridge When I Come to It!: Heretical Thoughts on Identity Politics, Cancel Culture, and Academic Freedom
Glenn’s conversation with Norman Finkelstein

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John McWhorter – The End of Race-Based Affirmative Action
14 Jul· The Glenn Show
0:00 John: Let’s be honest about what “taking race into account” means in affirmative action
10:09 Glenn: How can anyone argue that race-based affirmative action doesn’t violate the 14th Amendment?
19:29 Why are we so focused on elite institutions?
24:32 John: The University of California works just fine without “racial preferences”
30:28 “You’re pulling the ladder up behind you” is an invalid critique
35:00 John: The fact that racism exists does not justify changing standards
44:04 Why Roland Fryer thinks we should put our money where our mouth is on race and education
51:04 Will the post-Students for Fair Admissions future turn into a “Hardship Olympics”?
Recorded July 8, 2023
Links and Readings
Zachary Bleemer’s paper, “Affirmative Action, Mismatch, and Economic Mobility after California’s Proposition 209”
Zachary Bleemer’s paper, “Affirmative Action and Its Race-Neutral Alternatives”
The Supreme Court opinions in Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard
John’s book, Losing the Race: Self-Sabotage in Black America
John’s NYT piece, “On Race and Academia”
Roland Fryer’s NYT oped, “How to Fix College Admissions Now”

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June 2023 Q&A
12 Jul· The Glenn Show
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Jay Bhattacharya – Rewriting the COVID Narrative
7 Jul· The Glenn Show
0:00 The problem with scientific consensus
6:36 Why Jay and his colleagues were branded “fringe epidemiologists”
15:52 Jay: We need to engage with everyone—even those with mistaken beliefs
25:55 Persuading science skeptics
36:04 How do we stop COVID overreach from happening again?
46:38 Jay: Gain-of-function research is impossible to do safely
55:03 Are some ideas too dangerous to test?
59:30 Jay: Fauci’s blunder was so catastrophic that only history can judge him
Recorded June 23, 2023
Links and Readings
Rav Arora and Jay’s newsletter, The Illusion of Consensus
Doris Kearns Goodwin’s book, Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln
The Great Barrington Declaration
Steve Koonin’s book, Unsettled: What Climate Science Asks Us, What It Doesn’t, and Why It Matters
Steve Koonin’s TGS appearance
Tjalling Koopman’s, Three Essays on the State of Economic Science
Emily Oster’s Atlantic piece, “Let’s Declare a Pandemic Amnesty”
The Norfolk Group Document
Glenn’s paper, “Self-Censorship in Public Discourse: A Theory of ‘Political Correctness’ and Related Phenomena”
Richard Feynman demonstrates flaws in Challenger’s O-rings
Roger Shattuck’s book, Forbidden Knowledge: From Prometheus to Pornography

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Cornel West – The Presidential Aspirations of Cornel West
30 Jun· The Glenn Show
0:00 Why Cornel is running for president
10:45 How Cornel links American militarism abroad and inequality at home
15:15 Cornel’s pitch to skeptical right-of-center voters
20:30 Is there tension between Cornel’s commitment to stopping climate change and his commitment to helping the working class?
33:50 The moral potential and pitfalls of capitalism
37:34 Might Cornel inadvertently hand the election to the Republicans?
41:44 Cornel: Tim Scott and Clarence Thomas are wrong, but they’re sincere
46:06 Why Cornel thinks the US is partially culpable for the Ukraine War
52:04 Should Palestinians recognize the legitimacy of the State of Israel?
1:00:23 Cornel’s ideas about the US border
Recorded on June 16, 2023
Links and Readings
Cornel’s campaign website
Cornel’s TGS appearance with Teodros Kiros
Glenn and Richard Wolff debate capitalism and socialism
Cornel and Robert George on PBS’s Firing Line
Steve Koonin’s TGS appearance
Ernesto Cortes’s TGS appearance
Benjamin Schwartz and Christopher Layne’s Harper’s essay, “Why Are We in Ukraine?”

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Sally Satel – The Ethics of Selling a Kidney (Bonus Episode)
25 Jun· The Glenn Show
The following bonus episode was previously available only to paying Substack subscribers. We’re now releasing it to the public.
0:00 Identitarianism in the medical profession
5:13 The (exaggerated) psychiatric toll of Covid
7:31 Why were psychiatrists publicly diagnosing Trump?
12:29 Sally’s quest for a kidney donor
23:30 How the kidney donation system works and why it doesn’t
29:30 The ethics of selling a kidney
34:42 Can we put a price on the human body?
43:44 Would paying donors exploit the poor?
48:17 Is paid kidney donation a political possibility?
53:12 The roadblocks facing paid kidney donation
Links and Readings
Sally’s book, P.C., M.D.: How Political Correctness Is Corrupting Medicine
Christina Hoff Sommers and Sally’s book, One Nation Under Therapy: How the Helping Culture is Eroding Self-Reliance
Peter Kramer and Sally’s 2017 NYT op-ed, “Who Decides Whether Trump Is Unfit to Govern?”
matchingdonors.com
Leon Kass’s book, Life, Liberty, and the Defense of Dignity: The Challenge for Bioethics
Glenn’s conversation with Michael Sandel
Michael Novak’s defense of paid kidney donation in First Things
Sally’s book, When Altruism Isn’t Enough: The Case for Compensating Kidney Donors
Sally’s New York Times Magazine piece, “Desperately Seeking a Kidney”
Sally’s website

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John McWhorter & Jonathan Rieder – Canceling "Culture in America"
23 Jun· The Glenn Show
0:00 Why Jonathan’s course “Culture in America” got canceled
9:07 The fragility of liberal arts education
17:24 Managing “CRT zealots” in the classroom
27:44 Is there a future for free inquiry?
35:03 John: Black middle-class students don’t need affirmative action
44:57 Is diversity the problem, or is it elitism?
52:35 The virtues (and virtue signaling) of Randall Kennedy
Recorded June 17, 2023
Links and Readings
Alex Morey and Nadine Strossen’s FIRE article about Jonathan, “Who’s Allowed to Teach ‘Culture in America’?”
Barnard’s Center for Engaged Pedagogy
John’s book, Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America
Robin DiAngelo’s book, White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism
Cornell Belcher’s book, A Black Man in the White House: Barack Obama and the Triggering of America’s Racial-Aversion Crisis
Richard Rothstein’s Atlantic piece, “The Problem with Wealth-Based Affirmative Action”
John’s guest post, “Racial Preferences May End, but the Fight Will Continue”
Derrick Bell’s book, Faces at the Bottom of the Well: The Permanence of Racism
Glenn’s City Journal essay, “Affirmative Distraction”
Randall Kennedy NYT guest essay, “The Truth Is, Many Americans Just Don’t Want Black People to Get Ahead”
Randall Kennedy’s Atlantic essay, “My Race Problem”
Randall Kennedy’s book, For Discrimination: Race, Affirmative Action, and the Law
Randall Kennedy’s book, Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word
John McWhorter and Randall Kennedy on The Glenn Show
John’s 2008 Bloggingheads conversation with Randall Kennedy

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Robert Cherry – The State of the Black Family
16 Jun· The Glenn Show
0:00 Bob’s new book, The State of the Black Family: Sixty Years of Tragedies and Failures—and New Initiatives Offering Hope
7:02 Bob: “Liberals have given up” on changing black family dynamics
15:02 Two-parent families are preferable, but single-parent families need help
22:01 Do children help women organize their lives more effectively than men?
29:14 Is community college helping or hurting young black men?
38:38 How Bob thinks police and communities should deter violence
45:42 Work requirements with a human face
56:04 The moderate’s dilemma
Recorded May 4, 2023
Links and Readings
Bob’s new book, The State of the Black Family: Sixty Years of Tragedies and Failures—and New Initiatives Offering Hope
Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report, The Negro Family: The Case for National Action
Herbert Gutman’s book, The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom, 1750-1925
Lawrence Mead’s book, Beyond Entitlement: The Social Obligations of Citizenship
Lawrence Mead on TGS

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John McWhorter – How Should We Memorialize the Past?
9 Jun· The Glenn Show
0:00 Inside the mind of a crack columnist
4:19 The blowback from Norman Finkelstein’s TGS appearance
15:27 Is it enough to be a “happy warrior” for your cause?
28:45 How did MLK become MLK?
37:37 What’s in a name when that name is “Woodrow Wilson”?
49:10 Glenn: “Clarence Thomas’s name should be on public school buildings”
Recorded May 30, 2023
Links and Readings
John’s NYT archive
Norman Finkelstein on TGS
Norman Finkelstein’s book, I’ll Burn That Bridge When I Come to It: Heretical Thoughts on Identity Politics, Cancel Culture, and Academic Freedom
Jonathan Eig’s new biography of Martin Luther King, King: A Life
Jonathan Eig’s biography of Muhammad Ali, Ali: A Life
Charles Johnson’s novel, Middle Passage
Charles Johnson’s novel, Dreamer
Reza Aslan’s new book, An American Martyr in Persia: The Epic Life and Tragic Death of Howard Baskerville
PBS’s Frontline documentary, Clarence and Ginni

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Charles Love & Donique Rolle – Teaching Black History without CRT
2 Jun· The Glenn Show
0:00 Charles’s argument for emphasizing education over systemic racism
5:21 Donique: Teaching African American history doesn’t require critical race theory
15:36 Charles: We are the 97%!
18:48 How Donique balances oppression and triumph in black history
24:02 What does Florida’s Stop WOKE Act actually say?
33:30 What’s wrong with integrating LGBT history and black history?
44:19 Sexuality’s ever-shifting Overton window
49:40 Why Donique, a public school teacher, advocates for homeschooling
54:30 Expanding the canon of historic black figures
Recorded April 10, 2023
Links and Readings
Charles’s podcast, Cut the Bull
Seeking Educational Excellence
The Woodson Center’s 1776 Unites project
Putting the Pieces Together
Ian Rowe’s book, Agency: The Four Point Plan (F.R.E.E.) for ALL Children to Overcome the Victimhood Narrative and Discover Their Pathway to Power

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Show more

Episodes

Shep Melnick – The Crucible of Desegregation

John McWhorter – Whose Election Narrative?

August 2023 Q&A

Carol Swain – The Adversity of Diversity

John McWhorter – Sixteen Years of "The Black Guys"

Haim Shweky – An American-Israeli at the Ukrainian Front

John McWhorter & Ian Buruma – The Spirit of Wokeness

July 2023 Q&A

Jay Caspian Kang – Affirmative Elitism

John McWhorter and Peter Arcidiacono – The Economics of SFFA v. Harvard

Matt Johnson – The Lessons of Christopher Hitchens

John McWhorter – The End of Race-Based Affirmative Action

June 2023 Q&A

Jay Bhattacharya – Rewriting the COVID Narrative

Cornel West – The Presidential Aspirations of Cornel West

Sally Satel – The Ethics of Selling a Kidney (Bonus Episode)

John McWhorter & Jonathan Rieder – Canceling "Culture in America"

Robert Cherry – The State of the Black Family

John McWhorter – How Should We Memorialize the Past?

Charles Love & Donique Rolle – Teaching Black History without CRT