Episodes
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Former Turner President David Levy joins Su-Ann Heng and Jerry Foltz to commemorate the 6-year anniversary of The Match: Tiger vs. Phil. Levy takes us behind the scenes of how the groundbreaking event came together, revealing the contract negotiations, broadcast strategies, and even some funny stories about Tiger and Phil. He also recounts the infamous streaming fiasco that unfolded on the day of the event.
In this episode, Levy shares his expert insights on the rapidly evolving sports media landscape, including the challenges and opportunities in sports TV rights fees. We also explore the growing influence of women’s sports and the transformative impact of stars like Nelly Korda and Caitlin Clark. A must-listen for anyone passionate about the intersection of sports and media!
0:00 - Intro
01:10 - Sergio Reapplied for DP World Tour
04:18 - Mike Tyson vs. Jake Paul
06:15 - Hong Kong Open
07:10 - Ripper Boys Dominate in Australia
08:39 - Burmester Wins in South Africa
09:36 - Rory Wins DP World Tour Championship
16:14 - Nelly Korda Wins the Annika
20:12 - Rafael Campos Wins Bermuda Championship
23:32 - David Levy Joins the Show
24:14 - Destination Appointment Viewing
28:31 - Caitlin Clark's Effect On Women's Sports
34:42 - 6-Year Anniversary of The Match
49:34 - Future of Sports TV Rights Fees
55:04 - Keys to Success in Sports Television
1:01:09 - Reacting to David Levy Conversation
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David Feherty joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng for an in-depth conversation, covering everything from entertaining the troops to his advocacy for suicide prevention to his most memorable experiences on the golf course. Feherty shares advice for young people facing struggles, offers insights on the unity between LIV Golf and the PGA Tour, and dishes out Ryder Cup predictions alongside a bold take on Joaquin Niemann. We also get a behind-the-scenes glimpse of David’s storied career, including his experiences with Seve Ballesteros and a hilarious caddy story. And, of course, he talks about his decision to join the LIV Golf broadcast team and his shiny new truck. Packed with wit, wisdom, and plenty of laughs, this episode is a must-listen for golf enthusiasts and casual fans alike. Tune in now for the stories, insights, and fun only David Feherty can deliver!
0:00 - Intro
03:21 - Tyrrell Hatton Finishes 2nd in Abu Dhabi
04:15 - LIV Golfers Playing DP World Tour Event in Dubai
06:06 - Adrian Meronk Feature Article
08:17 - Cam Smith and Lucas Herbert Playing In Australia
08:33 - Big Names Playing Hong Kong Open
11:42 - Austin Eckroat Wins in Cabo
12:29 - Bernhard Langer Wins at 67 Years Old
15:23 - Mean Tweets: FTH Edition
22:08 - David Feherty Joins the Show
25:47 - David Feherty's Charity Work with Veterans
34:19 - Best Advice for Struggling Young People
37:13 - David Feherty's New Truck
39:32 - Decision to Join the LIV Golf Broadcast Team
42:40 - First LIV Golf Event Broadcast Experience
45:10 - Joaquin Niemann Prediction
46:41 - Ryder Cup Speculations
48:50 - Unity Between LIV Golf and PGA Tour
51:27 - Feherty’s Experience with Seve Ballesteros
53:51 - Feherty’s Caddie, Rodney Wooler
58:11 - Best Advice Feherty Has Ever Received
1:01:36 - Reacting to David Feherty Conversation
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Missing episodes?
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This episode of Fairway to Heaven is brimming with excitement! We start with highlights from the International Series and Richard T. Lee’s commanding win at the 2024 BNI Indonesian Masters. Bubba Watson amazes with a hole-in-one that leads to an inspiring donation, while Charley Hull takes the crown in Riyadh, ending her 2-year drought without a win. Cam Smith battles to a tied third at the Queensland PGA, and we break down what a potential game-changing PIF investment in the PGA Tour might look like. Wrapping up, Jerry and Su-Ann discuss potential free agent moves in the LIV Golf offseason, and where some of golf’s biggest stars might end up. Tune in for all the action and insights!
0:00 - Intro
02:55 - The International Series
05:04 - Richard T. Lee Wins 2024 BNI Indonesian Masters
09:36 - Bubba Watson Gets Hole-in-One, Donates House
15:16 - Charley Hull Wins in Riyadh
19:11 - Cam Smith tied for 3rd in Queensland PGA
23:20 - PIF Investment in PGA Tour
41:43 - Out of Bounds: Dodgers Win
43:11 - Team Trade Speculations
1:01:48 - Final Thoughts -
In this episode, we dive into the latest buzz in the golf world, including the singular LIV Golf spot up for grabs in the LIV Promotions Event, recent updates from the International Series, Tom Kim's unforgettable locker room incident and a look at the next year's event hosted in India.
Later, Jeff Bullock from The Ultimate Golf Rankings joins Jerry and Su-Ann to discuss The Universal Golf Rankings, a cutting-edge platform for the world of professional golf and junior golf rankings. Jeff breaks down how TUGR's data-driven approach brings efficiency and monetization potential to junior golf and the betting scene. This is one for the golf fanatics—whether you’re keeping score or placing bets, we’ve got you covered.
Tune in for an episode packed with updates, insights, and all the big names in golf!
0:00 - Intro
02:14 - LIV Promotions Event
07:23 - International Series Updates
08:51 - Tom Kim's Locker Room Incident
10:51 - The International Series: First Event in India
15:16 - Rank the Golfer
18:16 - Jeff Bullock Joins the Show
19:38 - TUGR: A Quick Rundown
21:28 - An Unbiased Ranking System
35:07 - Using TUGR for Exemption Criteria
36:56 - Junior Golf Rankings
40:17 - Monetization Strategy
41:30 - Using TUGR for College Recruitment
44:46 - TUGR and Betting Companies
50:13 - Reacting to Jeff Bullock Conversation
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On this week’s Fairway to Heaven, Jerry and Su-Ann cover all the latest happenings in the world of LIV Golf. We kick off with team speculations, including Eugenio Chacarra’s release from Fireballs GC, Cleeks GC potential rebrand and what might happen for players in the open zone. Jerry and Su-Ann discuss the latest in the world of Ripper GC, the excitement surrounding the International Series, and what’s to come with the LIV Golf promotions event.
0:00 - Intro
03:05 - LIV Golf Team Speculations
04:30 - Eugenio Lopez-Chacarra Released by Fireballs GC
07:01 - Cleeks GC Full Rebrand
09:30 - Wildcards and Underdogs
14:42 - Cam Smith Interview with The Herald Sun
20:53 - The Ripper Boys
23:16 - The International Series
29:32 - LIV Golf Promotions
32:16 - Vincent Brothers Working on LIV Golf Return
35:48 - Fairway to Heaven: Origins
36:36 - Bubba Watson in BNI Indonesia Masters 2024
42:08 - Outro
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Thomas Pieters joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to dive deep into his journey from college golf to the professional circuit, touching on his experiences at the 2016 Ryder Cup, his thrilling adventures racing Volkswagen buggies, and his future with the RangeGoats GC. Discover the challenges he faced over the past two years, his decision to join LIV Golf, and how he’s working to change the perception of golf, especially in Belgium. We explore his relationship with caddie Adam Marrow, the role models who inspire him, and what it’s like representing Belgium on the Olympic stage. Plus, get insights into his goals for the coming year, learn about the most famous Belgian golfer in history, and find out one surprising fact about Thomas that you probably didn’t know! Tune in for an inspiring conversation filled with adrenaline, personal anecdotes, and a fresh take on the game of golf!
0:00 - Intro
06:19 - PGA vs. LIV Golf Match
08:06 - Tyrell Hatton wins Alfred Dunhill Links Championship
09:31 - Matt McCarty wins Black Desert Championship
12:34 - Thomas Pieters Joins the Show
13:29 - Racing Volkswagen Buggies
20:30 - Future with RangeGoats GC
21:50 - 2016 Ryder Cup at Hazeltine
24:31 - Adrenaline Junkie
27:47 - How Popular is Golf in Belgium?
28:54 - Wamp App
32:39 - Changing the Perception of Golf
35:55 - Caddy Clubhouse
40:19 - Relationship with Caddie Adam Marrow
43:02 - Struggles Past 2 Years
46:46 - Why did Thomas Pieters Join LIV Golf?
51:12 - From College to Pro Career
57:01 - The Hardest Challenge to Overcome
58:19 - The Most Famous Belgian Golfer in History
1:00:05 - Thomas Pieters' Role Models
1:02:08 - Representing Belgium at the Olympics
1:05:10 - A Great Tennis Player
1:08:38 - Goals for Next Year
1:11:14 - One Thing We Don't Know About Thomas Pieters
1:13:04 - Reacting to Thomas Pieters Conversation
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Join us for a special episode of Fairway to Heaven where we celebrate a year of unforgettable conversations, laughter, and insights! In this compilation, we’ve gathered the most memorable clips from our favorite guests and topics, showcasing the heart and soul of our show. From hilarious anecdotes to profound revelations, this episode is a journey through our top moments that left a lasting impact. Whether you’re a long-time listener or new to the podcast, get ready to relive the highlights that made us laugh, think, and feel. Tune in and experience the magic that has shaped our year together!
0:00 - Intro
01:13 - Jon Rahm
01:32 - Bryson DeChambeau
05:34 - Phil Mickelson
11:25 - Anthony Kim
18:48 - Cam Smith
20:01 - Louis Oosthuizen
22:44 - Dean Burmester
24:08 - Bubba Watson
30:29 - Sergio Garcia
31:10 - Lee Westwood
32:33 - Richard Bland
36:13 - Matthew Wolff
40:43 - Talor Gooch
43:23 - Henrik Stenson and Ian Poulter
45:21 - Graeme McDowell
48:21 - Abe Ancer
49:51 - Caleb Surratt
51:22 - Marc Leishman
51:49 - Darius Butler
53:34 - Martin Kaymer
54:59 - Harold Varner III
56:15 - Peter Uihlein
57:45 - Charles Howell III
59:13 - Carlos Ortiz
1:00:23 - Kevin Na
1:01:15 - Eugenio Chacarra
1:02:40 - Anirban Lahiri
1:04:13 - Outro
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Brendan Steele joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to discuss the role his close relationship with Phil Mickelson played in him joining LIV Golf. This year’s LIV Golf Adelaide Champion chats about what that win meant to him, being the proud owner of LIV Golf’s first albatross, and his favorite part of playing on LIV Golf. Steele also talks about his love of tequila and Linkin Park.
0:00 - Intro
07:33 - President's Cup Recap
12:03 - Brendan Steele Joins the Show
13:13 - Brendan Steele's Love of Tequila
17:18 - Winning LIV Golf Adelaide
23:14 - HyFlyers Beat Torque
27:44 - Relationship with Phil Mickelson
31:31 - Favorite Part of LIV Golf
33:41 - Growing Up without Golf
42:03 - PGA Tour Success
45:15 - Joining LIV Golf
50:46 - Fairway to Love
56:37 - First LIV Golf Albatross
59:06 - Brendan Steele's Legacy
1:01:00 - A Bad Day for Brendan Steele
1:06:04 - Brendan Steele's Music Taste
1:09:53 - Reacting to Brendan Steele Conversation
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Andy Ogletree joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to discuss his season with HyFlyers GC and give us the scoop on where he’ll be playing next year on LIV Golf. The 2019 U.S. Amateur Champion tells all about his experience in the LIV Golf Team Championship, playing in The Masters with Tiger Woods, and what Phil Mickelson is cheffing up for dinner. Ogletree also tells us about his offseason wrist surgery and goals for next season.
0:00 - Intro
03:28 - LIV Golf Team Championship Recap
13:20 - Relegated Players
15:01 - LIV Golf Off-Season
18:30 - Andy Ogletree Joins the Show
20:53 - LIV Golf Team Championship Experience
24:15 - Phil's Faith in Andy Ogletree
27:29 - Offseason Wrist Surgery
33:30 - HyFlyers GC Training Camp
35:43 - Ogletree Family Supermarket
38:04 - 2019 U.S. Amateur Champion
41:28 - Playing with Tiger at the Masters
49:05 - Playing at the Top Level
52:20 - The Pressure of Playing Team Golf
1:01:46 - Enjoying Singaporean Cuisine
1:04:43 - Playing Golf Growing Up
1:07:04 - Quick Fire Questions
1:13:29 - Andy Ogletree's Goals
1:16:07 - Reacting to Andy Ogletree Conversation
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Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng round up the LIV Golf individual season, recapping all the drama from last week’s event in Chicago. The Fairway to Heaven duo discuss Jon Rahm’s dominant season on LIV Golf, Joaquin Niemann falling just short, and the success of Legion XIII as a whole. The hosts also breakdown all the movement, or lack thereof, in the Lock Zone, Drop Zone, and Relegation Zone.
0:00 - Intro
01:20 - Jon Rahm Wins LIV Golf Individual Championship
06:12 - Lock Zone Situation
07:40 - Bubba Watson Relegated
11:32 - The Show Goes On
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Lucas Herbert joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to take us through his personal experience with LIV Golf and the importance of the team aspect in the league. The youngest member of Ripper GC reflects on his time off from golf, his memorable wins, including the Bermuda Championship in 2021 and Ripper GC's victory in LIV Golf Adelaide. In addition, Lucas shares his passion for data in golf, his love for music, and the evolution of his career. Jerry and Su-Ann also delve into his legacy and the impact he hopes to leave on the sport. Don’t miss this episode as we react to Lucas Herbert’s candid conversation and gain insights into the world of LIV Golf.
0:00 - Intro
01:14 - Rahm vs. Niemann
02:21 - Bubble Boys in the Lock Zone
03:33 - FTH Picks for LIV Golf Chicago
06:23 - Lucas Herbert Joins the Show
06:49 - Ripper GC vs Stinger GC
09:32 - Lucas Herbert's Decision to Join LIV Golf
12:07 - Lucas Herbert's LIV Golf Experience
17:30 - The Team Aspect of LIV Golf
20:03 - Lucas Herbert's Time Off From Golf
24:51 - On Winning Bermuda Championship in 2021
24:51 - Ripper GC Win in LIV Golf Adelaide
33:00 - Lucas Herbert The Data Freak
38:01 - Lucas Herbert's Love for Music
43:53 - Fairway to Love
47:34 - Lucas Herbert's Legacy
50:43 - Reacting to Lucas Herbert Conversation
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Bubba Watson is back for part 2 of his sit down with Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to talk us through the stories of adopting Caleb and Dakota. The RangeGoats GC captain gives us the inside scoop on the process behind his winning shot at The Masters in 2012, how his rapping career took off, and the legacy he hopes to leave behind.
0:00 - Intro
01:29 - The Bubba Watson Episode, Part 2
05:41 - Bubba's Miraculous 2012 Masters Shot on 10
10:33 - Adopting Dakota Watson
15:13 - 2016 Ryder Cup
19:19 - Interview with Kay Cockerill
23:00 - The Golf Boys
25:08 - Bubba Watson's Rap Career
28:03 - Convoy of Hope
36:50 - Bubba Watson's Legacy
40:43 - Reacting to Bubba Watson Conversation
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Bubba Watson joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng for Part 1 of his interview on Fairway to Heaven. In this episode, the captain of RangeGoats GC talks about the important things in life outside of golf, the future of his franchise, and what it’s like owning a Minor League Baseball team. The 2-time Masters Champion also talks about what it will take to win again. Stay tuned for part 2 next week!
0:00 - Intro
02:42 - Solheim Cup Teams Announced
06:55 - Keegan Bradley's Big Win
15:53 - Jinichiro Kozuma Wins Japan Golf Tour Event
18:26 - Bubba Watson Joins the Show
21:10 - The Future of Rangegoats GC
23:20 - Bubba Watson's Priorities
26:02 - Lessons from Blue Wahoos
30:01 - The State of Bubba Watson's Game
32:31 - Rangegoats Team Dynamic
41:49 - Bubba Watson's Turning Point
52:20 - Bubba Watson Loves the LPGA Tour
56:07 - "It's Just Golf!"
01:01:30 - A Retrospective on Bubba Watson's Career
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Jason Kokrak joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to discuss his excellent performance at LIV Golf Greenbrier. Kokrak discusses his recent good form helping him back into the Lock Zone, his main reasons behind joining LIV Golf, and the team dynamics on Smash GC. The 3-time PGA Tour winner also talks about the potential for offseason trades around the league and his love for bourbon.
01:44 - LIV Golf Greenbrier Recap
13:50 - Jason Kokrak Joins the Show
16:57 - Jason Kokrak in the Lock Zone
21:28 - Success at Every Level
22:43 - On Brooks Koepka and Smash GC
25:14 - Has LIV Golf lived up to expectations?
27:36 - On the Decision to Join LIV Golf
31:46 - Walking Off the PGA Tour
34:05 - Jason Kokrak's Fighting Spirit
36:13 - Working with David "D-Rob" Robinson
41:43 - Qualifying for the Majors
44:45 - Smash GC Going for the Team Title
49:33 - Jason Kokrak: Bourbon Connoisseur
55:16 - Smash GC's Drink of Choice
1:00:09 - PED Testing
1:01:39 - Predictions on Final 2 Events
1:05:22 - Opinions on League Competitive Structure
1:09:58 - The Mistaken Canadian
1:12:22 - Where do you see yourself in 10 years?
1:15:00 - Reacting to Jason Kokrak Conversation
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Scott and Kieran Vincent join Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to discuss what it took for each of them individually to make the LIV Golf League. The Vincent Brothers talk about watching each other succeed, the sibling rivalry growing up, and what it’ll take for each of them to remain on LIV Golf next season. Scott and Kieran also chat about the difference in team dynamics between Legion XIII and Iron Heads GC.
0:00 - Intro
01:16 - Happy Birthday Jerry Foltz!
01:39 - LIV Golf Greenbrier Preview
04:38 - Begin Again Foundation Gala & Golf Event
07:00 - 2024 Olympics Recap
11:55 - Scott & Kieran Vincent Join the Show
14:21 - Kieran Vincent's LIV Golf Experience
17:10 - Growing Up in Zimbabwe
19:35 - Sibling Rivalry
20:56 - Scott Supporting Kieran's Early Career
25:34 - Qualifying for LIV Golf
28:15 - Scott Vincent's Kids
30:58 - Scott Vincent's Career
34:42 - Scott & Kieran's Mom
37:33 - Scott & Kieran's LIV Golf Season
42:02 - Perspectives on Life and Golf
45:15 - Scott Vincent: The Original Success Story
46:20 - A Difference in Dynamics
48:55 - Who's the Funniest Guy on your Team?
50:41 - Quick 5
53:14 - Reacting to Vincent Brothers Conversation
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Lee Westwood joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to talk about his proudest achievements in golf, including co-captaining Majesticks GC, knocking off Tiger Woods to become World #1, and winning 7 Ryder Cups. Westwood talks about his newfound fitness program that’s helped him gain 10 yards, his legacy, and the role he plays in his son’s golf game. As an inaugural member of LIV Golf, Lee talks about his love for the team aspect of LIV Golf and what the Majesticks mean to him.
0:00 - Intro
02:21 - Thoughts on Paris Olympics
14:42 - Lee Westwood Joins the Show
19:43 - Taking Fitness Seriously
22:11 - Lee Westwood's Proudest Achievements
26:05 - Buying Into the Team Concept of Golf
27:53 - Where Do You See Yourself in 10 Years?
41:05 - Advice for Samuel Westwood
46:14 - Instilling Self-Belief
47:51 - Lee Westwood's Main Motivation
51:48 - Thoughts on Strength of Field
55:51 - Reaction to European Tour Criticism
1:04:07 - Role on Majesticks GC
1:04:52 - Lee Westwood's Legacy
1:06:26 - Reacting to Lee Westwood Conversation
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John Catlin joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to talk about his recent success on LIV Golf. Catlin chats about his electric hole-in-one at JCB in the UK, thriving on the Asian Tour and the International Series, and what it will take to become a full time LIV Golfer. As always, Su-Ann gets the juicy details on Catlin’s life off the golf course and what it was like for John living in Thailand.
00:00:00 - Intro
00:02:30 - LIV Golf UK Recap
00:13:53 - 7 LIV Golfers at the Olympics
00:14:54 - John Catlin Joins the Show
00:15:26 - Hole-in-one at JCB
00:18:38 - Early Golf Career
00:20:03 - Success on the Asian Tour
00:24:28 - From Sacramento to Hua Hin
00:25:52 - On Coach Noah Montgomery
00:29:25 - Relationship with Bryson
00:33:39 - Tackling the International Series Season
00:37:24 - John Catlin Believes in Himself
00:49:17 - What Makes John Catlin Different
00:58:13 - Fairway to Love
01:04:32 - Where Do You See Yourself in 10 Years
01:06:01 - Reacting to John Catlin Conversation
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Anthony Kim joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to talk about his comeback to golf after 12 years away from the game. Kim talks about returning to professional golf for his wife and daughter, enjoying the grind of getting back to his best, and the daily struggle of sobriety. Also, AK tells stories of falling asleep on the course at PGA Tour events and trying to catch up with all the latest equipment.
00:00:00 - Intro
00:02:46 - LIV Golf UK Preview
00:06:10 - Open Championship Recap
00:09:30 - LIV X Hole-In-One $100k Giveaway
00:12:18 - Anthony Kim Joins the Show
00:14:42 - Favorite LIV Golf Location
00:15:36 - Feelings About Golf Game
00:21:02 - Falling in Love with the Game
00:26:32 - Girl Dad
00:29:18 - Anthony’s Thoughts About Anthony
00:33:22 - Why Come Back to Golf?
00:42:39 - Anthony Kim Merchandise
00:50:23 - Life Being Sober
00:51:53 - Joining LIV Golf
01:07:16 - Being Grateful
01:11:30 - Anthony Kim’s Legacy
01:13:27 - Reacting to Anthony Kim Conversation
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Martin Kaymer joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to discuss the recent successes of Cleeks GC, including Blandemonium’s Major wins. The captain of Cleeks GC recalls the mayhem of Miracle at Medinah, the juxtaposition of winning one of his two Majors in a playoff and the other by 8 strokes, and the learning how to hit a draw in order to compete at The Masters. Kaymer also shares his experience playing with Bernhard Langer one final time on the DP World Tour and what he’s learned on the golf course in 20 years as a professional.
00:00:00 - Intro
00:04:34 - LIV Golf Andalucía Recap
00:12:57 - LIV X Hole-In-One $100K Giveaway
00:17:03 - Open Championship Preview
00:19:10 - Martin Kaymer Joins the Show
00:25:31 - Celebrating Richard Bland’s Success
00:33:06 - Regaining Confidence
00:39:45 - Miracle at Medinah
00:43:52 - Which Major Win was Harder?
00:48:00 - Changing From a Fade to a Draw
00:51:43 - Bernhard Langer’s DP World Tour Farewell
00:59:15 - Partnership with Caddie Wee Man
01:05:18 - German Food and Drink
01:07:37 - Fairway to Love
01:12:10 - What Have You Learned in 20 Years of Pro Golf?
01:15:37 - Reacting to Martin Kaymer Conversation
01:19:50 - Open Championship Picks
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Eugenio Chacarra joins Jerry Foltz and Su-Ann Heng to discuss life on Fireballs GC learning from one of his role models, Sergio Garcia. The Oklahoma State Cowboy talks about his decision to join LIV Golf, earning his degree after turning pro, and dreams of making a European Ryder Cup team. Chacarra gives us the inside scoop on his sibling rivalry with his sister Carolina, who plays for Wake Forest’s Golf Team, and the incredible concentration and resiliency it took to beat Matt Jones in a 10 hole playoff at the St. Andrews Bay Championship.
00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:20 - LIV Golf Andalucía Preview
00:04:52 - Keegan Bradley Named Ryder Cup Captain
00:08:00 - Eugenio Chacarra Joins the Show
00:11:41 - Learning From Sergio
00:18:45 - Chacarra vs. Jones 10 Hole Playoff
00:21:07 - Joining LIV Golf
00:24:27 - Striving for Ryder Cup
00:25:27 - Sibling Rivalry
00:29:17 - Studying After 1st Pro Win
00:31:19 - Transferring to Oklahoma State
00:34:47 - Being Resilient
00:38:30 - Beauty of Real Club Valderrama
00:40:27 - Finding Balance in Life
00:44:20 - Where Do You See Yourself in 5 Years?
00:46:03 - Reacting to Eugenio Chacarra Conversation
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