Episodes
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Making a change in our lives can feel like a big, all encompassing thing; and sometimes we avoid change because of that very notion. But here’s some good news: making meaningful change in our lives actually starts with one small choice at a time, and it doesn’t have to be overwhelming or hard. This week, we’ve got the inside scoop on how to form habits that you actually want to stick with and someone who is going to let us in on the simple secrets to real and lasting change. James Clear is the bestselling author of “Atomic Habits.” His approach to building sustainable habits has resonated with millions, helping people make positive changes and reach their full potential.
In this conversation, James shares personal stories and scientific principles to empower journeys of growth and transformation. Jen even shares her personal experience of choosing one small habit to do each day in the wake of her seismic divorce and how that choice radically affected the trajectory of her recovery.
Jen and James explore:
How to embrace a 1% improvement mindset - small, incremental changes compound over time and lead to meaningful results.
The willingness to try different approaches and habits until you find what works for you
Why we’ll be set up for success in the long run by having a toolbox of different strategies instead of adhering to specific “must-have” habits
The importance of focusing on your identity and becoming the type of person you want to be, rather than just setting goals.
No matter where you are in life —you have it within you to make meaningful and practical changes in your life.
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Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“There was a time in my life when I was forced to start small. So I was trying to find little wins; just something I could look at and be like 'Today was a good day.' I think that mindset ended up really helping me in later life." - James Clear
"The whole world is going to emphasize your position and where you are. What I'm trying to emphasize is, "Are you getting 1% better? 1% worse? Is the arrow pointing up to the right, even if it's just a little bit? Or have you flatlined?" Because if you're on a good trajectory, all you need is time. All you need is patience. Time will magnify whatever you feed it." - James Clear
“There is no one way to build better habits. There are many ways. My job is not to tell you how to do it. My job is to lay all the tools out on the table, rather than trying to tell you this is the way to build habits.” - James Clear
“It's very easy, once you're listening to a conversation about habits or thinking about your own habits, to bite off more than you can chew, or start getting pulled in ten directions and be like; 'I'm going to change all ten of these things.' I think one good thing to remind yourself of is this energy will naturally extend into other areas of your life. So maybe take just one of those ten things and try to really master that.” - James Clear
"There's this common advice that if something doesn't work, you should try, try, try again and I think the better advice is if something doesn't work, you should try, try, try differently." - James Clear
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Atomic Habits by James Clear: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits
James Clear’s 3-2-1 Newsletter - https://jamesclear.com/3-2-1
Guest’s Links:
James Clear’s Website - https://jamesclear.com/
James Clear’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesclear/
James Clear’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JamesClear
James Clear’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jamesclear/
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
Hey, book lovers! Weâve got something a little different straight coming to you from the Jen Hatmaker Book Club this month, and if you havenât been a part of the conversation, we invite you to join us and all our fellow book nerds over at JenHatmakerBookClub.com. Weâre sharing our March selection, with you, our dear listeners, and we hope it will inspire you and have you thinking a little differently about the lies we tell ourselves as women and how we can get to that next right thing for our lives. Weâve got the fabulous Jamie Kern Lima, the author of a new book called âWorthy.â If you donât already know about Jamie, sheâs the founder of IT Cosmetics and the author of another book, âBelieve It,â which told the story of how she founded IT in her living room and how IT went on to be the largest luxury makeup brand in the country. But if that wasnât enough, she eventually sold the company to makeup giant LâOreal, making her the first female CEO of a LâOreal brand in the companyâs history. But her story is much more than a rags to riches adventure, which she continues in âWorthyâ--itâs about how she overcame a fear of failure, the paralyzation of never feeling like she was enough, and a litany of rejection she faced through all phases of her career.âWorthy,â contains key lessons Jamieâs learned toward reversing lies weâve been told and claiming new truths for ourselves, including:Why self love is important (and not selfish) and mirrors how deeply we can relate to and love others You can never achieve enough to feel like you are enough; that comes with believing in yourself innately as who you areYour past mistakes do not define your present worth or determine your futureAs Jamie says, the moment we learn to believe we are worthy is the moment unhealthy relationships fall away, ideas are birthed, and art is shared with the world. She invites us to step into the freedom that happens when we embrace who we truly are and believe we are worthy of the good things that come our way.* * *Thought-Provoking Quotes:âIf we don't think we're worthy of something, we will either stay stuck, find a way to sabotage it, orâthe best case isâweâll go for it and achieve it. But we'll still feel unfulfilled and still feel like we're not enough in the process. â - Jamie Kern LimaâIf you are someone that prides yourself in being selfless and being a giver, and you can't think about doing this for yourself, the greatest gift you can give people is to learn to love yourself, and to learn to believe you are worthy. Because the depth of love that you have for yourself will expand the depth of love you now have for them.â - Jamie Kern LimaâI do not care how many past mistakes, failures, or things that you feel are shameful or regrettable incidents [you have had]. None of them define your worth.â - Jamie Kern LimaâI believe your intuition is never wrong. I believe it either leads you to the next right step or the next right lesson. I have peace and trust in that.â - Jamie Kern LimaâThe moment a person learns to believe she is worthy, that is the moment unhealthy relationships end or unhealthy friendships end or ideas are birthed or hands are raised and art is shared with the world.â - Jamie Kern LimaGuestâs Links:Jamieâs WebsiteJamieâs InstagramJamieâs FacebookJamieâs TwitterJamieâs YouTubeBooks & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:Believe It by Jamie Kern LimaFor the Love Podcast Episode ft. Jamie Kern LimaWorthy by Jamie Kern LimaFor the Love Episode ft. Daniel PinkFeeding America (Food Bank Charity)âThe Life You Wantâ Class (Taught by guest teacher Jamie Kern Lima)Connect with Jen!Jenâs website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jenâs Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJenâs Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jenâs Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJenâs YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Continuing in our series of Embracing Change, Jen talks with an elite athlete who found their life caving in, leaving themselves with no other choice than to flow with the transitions. In this candid conversation, Jen and Olympic figure skater Gracie Gold delve into Gracie's battles with mental health, disordered eating, and the intense pressures of elite athletics.
Gracie’s story speaks to immense strength - navigating the insidious grip of an eating disorder that spanned longer than many of her close relationships. Gracie recounts how the illusion of control through restrictive eating eventually triggered a "nuclear meltdown," forcing her to confront the compounding traumas.
Jen and Gracie explore:
The toxic underbelly of perfectionism glorified in figure skating and its ties to disordered eating
Society's tendency to stigmatize mental illness that doesn't fit a textbook definition
The arduous, perpetual work of managing an eating disorder
Reclaiming authenticity after realizing her projected "ice princess" persona was unsustainable
With refreshing candor, Gracie shares how curiosity and embracing life's small joys enabled her to begin reconstructing an integrated identity beyond skating's rigid expectations. Her courage to openly discuss such profound struggles is a beacon of hope for anyone confronting their inner critic.
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Thought-Provoking Quotes:
"In most industries, to be a woman in this world, typically and historically, you were rewarded if you were smaller." - Gracie Gold
"Instead of feeling anxious that I don't have a plan and I don't have an exact to-do list with everything on it checked off — instead of finding anxiety in that, I try to find freedom." - Gracie Gold
"[I'm] continuing to put one foot in front of the other and being okay with not knowing where I'm going and that the universe will bring me where I'm meant to go." - Gracie Gold
“I just thought I could push through [depression]--very type A. I just thought 'Oh I can push through, if I just work harder, or be better, then it'll go away.' Which it didn't.” - Gracie Gold
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
2014 U.S. Olympic Figure Skating Team (Gracie’s team won a bronze medal) - https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/sochi-2014/athletes
Outofshapeworthlessloser: A Memoir of Figure Skating, F*cking Up, and Figuring It Out - https://www.amazon.com/Outofshapeworthlessloser-Memoir-Figure-Skating-Figuring-ebook/dp/B0C4J8MLF6
Top Ten Female Figure Skaters of All Time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_scores_in_figure_skating
Guest’s Links:
Gracie’s Website - https://graciegold.figureskatersonline.com/
Gracie’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GracieGold
Gracie’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/GraceEGold
Gracie’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/graciegold95
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
Our new series of Embracing Change is a deep examination of all the different ways change shows up in our lives and all the ways we can respond to it. As Jen says in this interview, our guest today went through a “chosen change.” Hers was a transformation that felt inevitable after all the small, incremental posture changes made her ready for the leap to follow — a leap toward more sanity, more love, and more joy.
Joy Sullivan is a poet and community builder. Her new book “Instructions for Traveling West” is “for anyone flinging themselves into fresh starts.” She received a Masters in poetry from Miami University and has served as the poet-in-residence for the Wexner Center for the Arts. She joins the podcast today sharing her story of walking into the unknown. Through her unique viewpoint as a poet, she unlocks potent ways for us to trust our intuition and stay curious about what is scaring us.
Jen and Joy touch on:
The importance of embracing loneliness and stillness as opportunities for self-discovery and hearing one's true inner voice and callings.
stories from Joy’s life that served as lessons for her to love herself more deeply
Reclaiming selfhood by rupturing constrictive cultural and religious narratives, especially around womanhood and female identity
For anyone feeling the tug to upend the inertia of their life and lean into evolution, this conversation is an inspiring guide for following one's deepest callings into new horizons.
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Thought-Provoking Quotes:
"I started driving west and I spent six weeks hiking in Sedona, being in the beautiful desert. During that time, I really had this sense of awakening and the sense of rupturing. It was that question like, ‘Am I doing work that matters?’ And I was so awake to my life again in that intense way that loneliness just pricks us alive. And I really began to grapple. I just looked at every aspect of my life and said, ‘Could there be more?’" - Joy Sullivan
“I don't think it matters where you go, but to be able to give yourself an opportunity to really reinvent, that's the good stuff.” - Joy Sullivan
"I didn't have the life that I sort of felt like I always should have had based on what a woman was supposed to get — a husband, kids, the stability of the white picket fence, etc. And what's been interesting is when I sort of recreated or fractured some of those stories culturally and religiously that I had been given, my life just expanded into possibility because it had never occurred to me that a woman could be really, really happy if she didn't choose those things." - Joy Sullivan
“Poetry is the only place that can hold the unsayable. It's the only space we have that holds that which cannot be spoken in any other art form. All the ache, all the beauty, all the impossibility of being alive; that's what poems are for.” - Joy Sullivan
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Sustenance (A Community of Poets and Writers founded by Joy Sullivan) - https://joysullivanpoet.com/sustenance
Necessary Salt (Joy Sullivan’s Substack Blog) - https://joysullivan.substack.com/
Instructions For Traveling West by Joy Sullivan (A book of poems coming April 9, 2024) - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/734503/instructions-for-traveling-west-by-joy-sullivan/
Guest’s Links:
Joy’s Website - https://joysullivanpoet.com/
Joy’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/Joy_E_Sullivan
Joy’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/joysullivanpoet/
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
We’re finishing up our For the Love of Wonderful You series intentionally with a deep breath and a gentle word of encouragement. In this episode, even though we are talking about trauma, critical inner voices, and the arduous process of grief, Jen and her guest unwind these topics in the most gentle and loving way.
Kobe Campbell is an award-winning therapist who specializes in helping people process grief and trauma in a way that unearths true empowerment. Hidden beneath the clamor of everyday life, the voices of our inner critic lie in wait to echo our grief. These voices, though silent to others, can roar deafeningly within us — shaping our perceptions, beliefs, and actions. Kobe’s suggestions of journal “prompts” help guide our own trauma excavation process, and her gentle but challenging questions further that sometimes painful work, while steering us toward self compassion.
Jen and Kobe touch on:
The understanding that grief can take a lot of time to process; which can ultimately lead to wisdom and true empowerment
A working definition of trauma and that trauma is highly personal and contextual
How we can feel brave enough to examine the inner critical voice and discern where it’s coming from
Acknowledging the cultural pressure to live at an unsustainable pace that doesn’t allow space or time to heal
If you ever needed permission to grieve or drop the unrelenting pace of your life, then this is the invitation.
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Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“I love to tell people that trauma is not what happened to you. It's about how it affected you. And those effects can live in our present, even if the moment is in the past. I help people parse through that in creative ways with poems, quick words, and thoughts from my kitchen right after I'm done with the session.” - Kobe Campbell
“I think that many of us have not been given the space to grieve long enough to know what genuine and internal empowerment feels like, and we keep trying to give ourselves that empowerment from the outside. We keep trying to grasp motivation from somewhere.” - Kobe Campbell
"Trauma can be acute, meaning it can be a moment, or trauma can be chronic, meaning it could be several moments over time. And I like to give the example that trauma can be a boulder or it could be pebbles. But the reality is–it doesn't matter. There is no big 'T' trauma and little 't' trauma because, at the end of the day, all those pebbles amass to the size of a boulder anyway. It's just being accumulated over time." - Kobe Campbell
"The person who holds the wound holds the wisdom. If we lock away that version of us that is deeply wounded and wants to cry for three months, then we're also locking away the wisdom of those situations that we need for our present." - Kobe Campbell
"My humanity is good. God created it good. And if I believed that I was good for just existing as I am, how would I treat myself?" - Kobe Campbell
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Why Am I Like This? How to Break Cycles, Heal From Trauma, and Restore Your Faith by Kobe Campbell
Journal Prompt on Kobe’s Instagram
Brain Neuro Coupling
I Feel Like Woman by Shania Twain on Spotify
Minaa B. Website (Therapist and Colleague of Kobe’s)
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Michell C. Clark Instagram
Guest’s Links:
Kobe’s Website
Kobe’s Facebook
Kobe’s Twitter
Kobe’s Instagram
Kobe’s TikTok
Kobe’s YouTube
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
We’ve got someone on the show this week who makes it her business to show us exactly how wonderful we as women are–just as we are! She is the queen of keeping it real, a hilariously honest actress, standup comedian, and the Instagram star who has become our go-to for a belly laugh when the world's expectations just seem a tad too polished–it’s Celeste Barber!
If you haven’t seen Celeste on her Instagram account, get on over there and join the nearly 10 million people who are clamoring for her content each week (and if you have any doubt, she won the “Funniest Lady on Instagram Award” back in 2017). She’s also a successful standup comedian who sold out three seasons of her “Challenge Accepted” Tour in the US, and has a Netflix Special (“Fine, Thanks”) and a dramatic comedy series that we just love called “Wellmania.”
Jen and Celeste get into it about:
The riotous juggle Celeste manages by shining a light on the quirks of the beauty industry, all while paving her own extraordinary path.
Celeste opens up about the nuanced battles of being valued for her sharp mind and quicker wit in a scene often unforgiving to women.
Celeste and Jen share about the beautiful chaos of balancing a career with being a superhero mom (or at least trying to be).
This episode is more than just laughs (though, swear, you'll have plenty); it's a pat on the back for every one of us out here, doing the thing, being utterly magnificent in our complexity. Here’s to celebrating the splendid and wonderful you!
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Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“I would like to live one day without anxiety. I would also like to be a Janet Jackson backup dancer. That's all I ask for.” - Celeste Barber
“I take my hat off to women in general, just always and forever.
"The mothers who work in the day and then go home and be excellent mothers at night, and they go back to work in the day and they come home and they're excellent mothers. How do they do that?” - Celeste Barber
“With women, [being] funny or smart or boundary-pushing is fine as an idea, but [we're asked] 'can you be safe and pretty because that's just easier for us.' And so shifting that lens, the thing is, we're multifaceted. There are so many different types of things to celebrate within women." - Celeste Barber
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Celeste Barber: Challenge Accepted (Celeste’s 2019 Comedy Special)
Celeste Barber: Fine, Thanks (Celeste’s 2023 Comedy Special)
All Saints (Medical Drama that got Celeste her start)
Wellmania (2023 Netflix Series Starring Celeste)
Celeste Barber: Backup Dancer Tour
Celeste Barber and Tom Ford Collab
Celeste will be in Dallas June 10th at the Majestic Theatre, in Austin June 13th at the Paramount Theatre, and in Houston June 14th at 713 Music Hall
Guest’s Links:
Celeste’s Website
Celeste’s Instagram
Celeste’s Facebook
Celeste’s Twitter
Celeste’s YouTube Channel
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Visit Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
Here’s a little bonus for all our listeners this week–a preview from one of our fellow Audcacy Network podcasts, We Can Do Hard Things! Life is freaking hard. We are all doing hard things every single day – things like loving and losing; caring for children and parents; forging and ending friendships; battling addiction, illness, and loneliness; struggling in our jobs, our marriages, and our divorces; setting boundaries; and fighting for equality, purpose, freedom, joy, and peace. On We Can Do Hard Things, Glennon Doyle, author of UNTAMED; her wife Abby Wambach; and her sister Amanda Doyle do the only thing they’ve found that has ever made life easier: Drop the fake and talk honestly about the hard things including sex, gender, parenting, blended families, bodies, anxiety, addiction, justice, boundaries, fun, quitting, overwhelm . . . all of it. We laugh and cry and help each other carry the hard so we can all live a little bit lighter and braver, free-er, less alone.
Enjoy this special excerpt from We Can Do Hard Things!
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Connect with Our Friends!
We Can Do Hard Things Podcast
Nadia Bolz-Weber
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
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It’s the start of a new series, For The Love of Wonderful You! Spring is arriving and as the winter slumber fades away, many of us are likely plunging into a frantic pace of commitments and To Do lists. But we want to take a minute (or approximately 45-mins to an hour) to create a moment where we can punch the brakes a little. Let’s tell that inner taskmaster to relax; and instead, reflect on finding value in who we are in this moment, and how worthy we are just as we are.
Jen’s amazing conversation partner today is Amanda Doyle. Amanda is many amazing things but you may know her first and foremost as “Sister” on the We Can Do Hard Things Podcast with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach. She’s also part of the leadership team at Together Rising, the amazing non-profit that has raised over $50 million dollars and given it away to people all over the world who need it most. Amanda has been a longtime social justice advocate and she uses that knowledge to break down deep truths and complex social issues in all her conversations. Today, she reminds us that spending the energy to stay vulnerable in our relationships will always pay out.
In this episode Jen and Amanda talk about:
The struggle to be vulnerable and truly open up versus managing perceptions and staying in control in relationships
How Amanda chose sobriety and the surprising clarity that emerged in her marriage, especially during the pandemic
Jen’s journey to understanding herself and her avoidant tendencies in the aftermath of her divorce
The profound impact of the "love letter" exercise guided by Liz Gilbert, where “Love's voice” urged Amanda to stop keeping score in life
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Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“A relationship has to have some equilibrium. The farther you go this way, the more the other person has to go the other way. What I have learned is that no one wants to be in those places.” - Amanda Doyle
"What I have recently realized is that many people who either view themselves or are viewed in their relationships as control freaks; actually what they want the most is to not be in control of everything. They feel like they have to be in control of everything, because that is the way that they show their love is by taking care of things. But what they want more than anything else is for someone to step up and be like, 'I got this, I got you. You don't have to be in control of this.'" - Amanda Doyle
“You are so fixated on the score of this life, but there is no score except the one in your head. You are exhausting yourself to death, trying to keep a score and figure out where you've won, and figure out where other people have disappointed you and slighted you and not met your expectations. But the score is fiction. We're not being scored." - Amanda Doyle
“We think when we're giving up alcohol, we're giving up fun. And that's with good reason. It's like fully marketed--growing up, it's part of the narrative; anything that is fun also includes alcohol. But then I had the enormous blessing of being so close to Abby and Glennon's life and seeing that they were the most fun people with the most delightful, satisfying lives of anyone else I know. And none of that included alcohol." - Amanda Doyle
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle
For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Glennon Doyle
For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Abby Wambach
For the Love Podcast Enneagram Threes Episode ft. Lisa Whelchel
Untamed by Glennon Doyle
We Can Do Hard Thing Episode ft. Liz Gilbert
Letters From Love with Liz Gilbert (Substack)
For the Love Podcast Episode ft. Sarah Bessey
Guest’s Links:
Together Rising Website
Amanda’s Twitter
Together Rising Facebook
Together Rising Instagram
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
For this month’s book club pick, we are headed into 1970’s Montgomery, Alabama. Based on a true story, Take My Hand by Dolen Perkins-Valdez is an unflinching exploration of accountability and redemption through an era that was plagued with bias and coercion. The central character, Civil Townsend, is a complicated heroine fresh out of nursing school with a deep desire to make a difference in her Black community at the Montgomery Family Planning Clinic. During her first week on the job, Civil encounters two young girls who have their agency usurped by the current government authority which mandates that because they Black, poor, and disabled, the girls’ ability to have children should be curbed. Years later, Civil Townsend must reconcile her role and complicity in a story that must not be forgotten.What unfolds is a shocking and heartbreaking expose of how girls and women have had their agency taken away in ways that echo for generations.
Inspired by true events, Dolen recounts her research process and how she wanted to write “bruised characters” that evoke outrage and empathy. Jen and Dolen dive into Dolen’s history as a writer, the context of what was happening in 1973 when the case that this story is based broke into the public sphere, and all the themes of this book that make it impossible to put down. This is a story that must not be forgotten and Dolen writes it so you won’t ever forget.
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Guest’s Links:
Dolen’s Website
Dolen’s Facebook
Dolen’s Twitter
Dolen’s Instagram
Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Take My Hand by Dolen Perkins-Valdez
Balm by Dolen Perkins-Valdez
Wench by Dolen Perkins-Valdez
Relp v. Weinberger Case
Roe v. Wade Case
Brotherless Night by V. V. Ganeshananthan
Symphony of Secrets by Brendan Slocumb
Happiness Falls by Angie Kim
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
ï»żThe For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
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Weâre wrapping up our series featuring Black Trailblazers, and we couldnât be more thrilled to have another guest who has broken barriers and basically created their own space as part of the national conversation, becoming the first black woman to anchor a cable primetime show. You may know her from her seat as a political analyst on MSNBC, or as the host of her own show, The ReidOut. Itâs the amazing Joy Reid, everyone! Joy is a Harvard grad with a degree in visual and environmental studies and a concentration in documentary film. She also worked on the Florida branch of the Obama campaign. Her political writing prowess has landed her columns and articles everywhere; The New York Times, The New Republic, The Guardian, The Daily Beast, and The New Yorker, to name a few. PLUS she has a new book coming out that she gives us a special peek into; itâs the important and moving story of slain Civil rights pioneer Medgar Evers and his wife Myrlie, also an activist. It's not every day we get to talk to someone who brings the goods about so many profound topicsâcivil rights, the fight for reproductive rights, immigration issues, the sacrifice for equalityâand she and Jen shy away from none of them here. Joyâs passion for calling out injustice and her unwavering belief that we all hold the keys to preserving our rights and our freedoms gives us a reason to believe that we all can be trailblazers toward sparking change in our world.* * *Thought-Provoking Quotes:âI'm very conscious of the fact that I'm the person that looks like the young black girls who come up to me, and it makes me feel very proud because I can represent. You really can only be what you can see.â - Joy ReidâThe goal is when you get in the door, just pop it open. Get it open and let more people in. Diversity and equity and inclusion, theyâve become bad words. But they actually just mean weâre making America more what it was meant to be.â - Joy ReidâThe immigrants who people are fighting hardest against are the people who are coming from Guatemala and El Salvador. They're also coming from China and Ukraine at this point. All they want to do is work. They are probably the hardest working people in America.â - Joy ReidâWe keep trying to replace cheap labor. America could change that by paying people living wages. But Americans don't want to do that. We love the cheap labor because we love the cheap chicken sandwiches.â - Joy ReidâWe have to save ourselves not just by voting for president, but by choosing the Senate in a different way, by choosing a different House of Representatives, by choosing different state legislatures, different governors. You need to start choosing not based on the party you're loyal to and the jersey you put on at age 18 when you became a Republican or a Democrat. You need to choose based on who's going to let you be free.â - Joy ReidJoyâs Links:The ReidOut - Joyâs show on MSNBCJoy Reid - InstagramJoy Reid - FacebookJoy Reid - X (Twitter)Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:The Man Who Sold America Trump And The Unraveling of The American Story - book by Joy ReidMedgar and Myrlie: Medgar Evers and the Love Story That Wakened America - book by Joy ReidT.R.M. Howard - Black Physician Who Created a System of Affordable Health CareLegislation in Georgia Regarding a Six Week Abortion BanMeet the Press News ShowGwen Ifill - American JournalistMedgar & Myrlie Evers - Civil Rights PioneersQueen & Slim - FilmManning Marable - Professor African American Studies/Columbia UniversityEmmitt Tillâs Photo in Jet MagazineSharon McMahon InstagramConnect with Jen!Jenâs websiteJenâs InstagramJenâs TwitterJenâs FacebookJenâs YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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In this week’s episode in our Black Trailblazer’s series, Jen may have leveraged her connections, and we couldn’t be more thrilled that she did. We’re excited to have a wonderful sit down with the amazing Jerrie Merritt (who just happens to be Jen’s boyfriend Tyler’s mother–and a Black trailblazer in every sense of the word). In addition to being Tyler’s mom, Jerrie’s currently the Senior VP of Community Development at the Bank of Nevada in Las Vegas. Her banking career spans 40 plus years, where her job now is discerning funding for community development projects in the city of Las Vegas (as she puts it; “I’m the only person at the bank who’s actually giving money away!”). She’s been the board president of the Rape Crisis Center, The Urban Financial Services Coalition, and the Chamber of Commerce in Las Vegas. She even recently got to work with the NFL when the Super Bowl took place in Las Vegas to lead the dispersion of funds they made available to 14 worthy organizations, which she chose. In 2021, Jerrie received an actual Trailblazer Award, presented by the National Coalition of 100 Black Women from the Las Vegas Chapter. Jerrie takes us back to where it all began; in a tiny town called Eutaw, Alabama, where Jerrie didn’t see much modeled to her in the way of dreaming of who she could be, but through generosity of spirit and a willingness to take a chance, she started blazing her trail. It wasn’t without its challenges, coming up during a time where women–especially black women–were often shunned in business and leadership settings. Despite this, Jerrie paved a way, and in turn is paving a way for those coming up behind her. Her infectious courage, intertwined with a humility that hits you right in the feels—will incite a fire with all of us to leave our own indelible mark on this wild, beautiful world.
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“Always pursue your dreams because there is nothing that you as a woman, and especially as a black woman, cannot accomplish if you work at it.” - Jerrie Merritt
“I'm blessed. I can't think of one thing that I have done in my career to get me here today that I had no control over. I always worked at trying to make sure that I was giving back [to the community] and to make sure that I made a difference, no matter what it was. From being a teller to being a regional president of a bank, I always wanted to do my best.” - Jerrie Merritt
“My mom was a teenager when I was born. So I was raised between my mother's mother and my father's mother. Those two women gave me a foundation that made me who I am today.”
“Now that I look back, I think I was so driven. I think that I didn’t know anything better than to expect that I deserved; what I saw everyone else have. I think if I took a moment and thought about it. I probably would not be here today. I think back to my mother and my grandmothers who always talked about, 'You can do better, you can do better.' That's what I always heard so I always knew that I could do better.” - Jerrie Merritt
“I went into community development from actually being a regional president. I was only [at the company] six months before I realized that this was something I enjoyed. That was because I was the only person in the bank that was giving away money.” - Jerrie Merritt
“When I enjoy what I do as much as I do, and at the same time I'm giving back in areas that I probably would give back to even if I didn't get paid to do it--that's how I got here.” - Jerrie Merritt
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
National Coalition of 100 Black Women, Vegas Chapter
I Always Wanted to Be Somebody by Altea Gibson
NFL Grant Programs
Guest’s Links:
Jerrie’s Website
Jerrie’s Facebook
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
The world is on fire, and finding unexpected pathways that make sense of the world are hard won these days. And the people we look to, whether it’s through our socials, or the books we read, or even the news shows we watch, can do a lot to help ease us into whatever new madness faces us each morning.
One of the people so many of us look to each day does an amazing job of just that; bringing grace, compassion and humor to her reporting each morning as part of the ‘Today’ Show. We’ve got Savannah Guthrie on the pod in this special bonus episode! Savannah’s as good and kind in person as you would think she is when watching her on the hosting couch for ‘Today.’ She and Jen discuss the unexpected path to her career in journalism–including taking a job at a station that closed two weeks after she started and her hard turn from journalism to go into law school. As she describes it, she ultimately “broke up” with the judge she was to start a clerkship with because she just couldn’t turn away from her dream of being a television journalist. Lucky for us!
From the reporting of incredibly heartbreaking stories (she sadly reveals she’s covered 10 school shootings in just one year) to bringing in levity (roller skating with Martha Stewart, anyone?) Savannah gives us the nitty gritty, decidedly unglamourous side of being a journalist, and the joys that sneak in all along the way. The deeper story is all contained in the release of her first book, “What God Mostly Does,” where she also shares a bigger picture look at her faith and convictions, and where she sees God show up all along the way.
***
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“The 'Today' Show is an incredible institution. So to be a part of it for even one moment, I think we all kind of feel like momentary caretakers. The place is bigger than any individual. It's not just the people you see on TV. It's all the people behind the scenes.” - Savannah Guthrie
“It's taken a long time to be comfortable in my own skin because when you're a Washington correspondent, it's so hardcore. And then you come to the 'Today' Show and you do real news interviews; you're interviewing the President or the Secretary of State or a grieving victim. It's real news. It's hard news. But then at 8:30, you might be roller skating with Martha Stewart on an elephant, you know?" - Savannah Guthrie
“I never want to have thick skin, even though it hurts to not have thick skin. I want to have humanity. I want [the news] to touch me. But I'm not going to cry and carry on on air because I don't want to be a distraction. I'm supposed to be a professional, so it's just trying to thread that needle, it's just the deep resource of faith that has saved me time and time again in my private life and my professional life.” - Savannah Guthrie
“I'm not writing [my book] from some mountain top where I figured it all out. I'm writing it from the depths. I'm writing it as the person who actually needs to read this book over and over again. Every day I have to pull myself out of the doldrums and remind myself; to keep going. No one's perfect.” - Savannah Guthrie
ââ"God means something to a lot of people, and that is so exciting and heartening and beautiful. I hope this may spark a deeper conversation with a friend. Because when we really bond over those things, it's so meaningful; it's like our soul is just thirsting for that friendship and love." - Savannah Guthrie
Resources:
Mostly What God Does book by Savannah Guthrie
Savannah’s Interview with Michael Jackson’s Doctor
Savannah Reporting at Robb Elementary School after the Uvalde School Shooting
Savannah Reporting the Departure of ‘Today’s” Matt Lauer
‘Today’ Show segment with Martha Stewart
Guest Links:
Instagram
Twitter
Facebook
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
Women's sports are having a major moment right now, with basketball superstars like A'ja Wilson leading the charge. Considered one of the best WNBA players to ever grace the court, A'ja is using her towering influence to encourage not only young black girls, but all women who have felt the need to change who they are to fit in. A’ja fought to be herself every step of the way in her journey of becoming a G.O.A.T. in the WNBA.
In this uplifting conversation, A'ja Wilson opens up about the challenges she faced as a young black woman trying to be her authentic self. From an anecdote about confronting racism in 4th grade to the influential women who instilled self-love during her journey to the top, A'ja shares her playbook for empowerment with raw honesty. She discusses the motivation behind writing her new book "Dear Black Girls" and the importance of defining yourself instead of letting others do it for you.
If you've ever felt the need to shrink yourself to fit in or been made to feel "other," A'ja's wisdom will inspire you to embrace all that makes you beautifully unique.
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“I think the biggest thing that is surprising to me is really how much work we put in. Other people see the end results as basic glory. They see that and they're like, 'Oh my God, they make it look flawless and just easy. But the most surprising thing is how many times we cry together, how many times we pray together, how many times we just come into the gym. It's like we don't have it, but we still find a way to dig it out.” - A’ja Wilson
“I think the biggest thing I always like to say is (I even had it on my shoes); if you can see her you could be her.” - A’ja Wilson
“The self-accountability that [my role models] instilled in me allows me to (instill) that into someone else. I can be that leader for my teammates and hold them accountable because I want you all to do the same for me” - A’ja Wilson
“Young girls all the time are like, ‘What do I need to do to do this?’ I'm like, ‘Girl, just keep doing what you're doing. That's your path. I don't want you to think your path is going to look like mine.’ I think once you get past that, that's when that self-worth comes in. That's when you're like, ‘Okay, I'm good at where I am.’” - A’ja Wilson
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Dear Black Girls: How to Be True to You
Dawn Staley
The Players’ Tribune
Guest’s Links:
A’ja’s Website
A’ja’s Facebook
A’ja’s Twitter
A’ja’s Instagram
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
As we close out our For the Love of Facing Your Fears series, we're diving headfirst into a topic that we will all face at one point in our lives (hopefully later than sooner); our very own expiration dates. It’s one of humanity’s most universal yet daunting fears, and we’ve got a compassionate and experienced guide to walk us through the kinds of things we might wonder about, and the beautiful unexpected moments that can accompany our final days. Hadley Vlahos is a hospice nurse whose life experiences and work have provided her with profound insights into the final chapter of our lives. Hadley opens up about her personal journey through struggles and grief, her entry into nursing as a calling, and her perspectives on the beauty that can be found even in our final moments. Her book, "The In-Between: Unforgettable Encounters During Life's Final Moments," encapsulates powerful stories from the bedside of the dying, some of which she shares with us, including the tranquility of the in-between and the serendipitous moments bringing peace to those passing. With over 1.4 million followers captivated by her TikTok narratives, Hadley’s perspective takes the edge off the many worries we may have about the end-of-life process. Join us for a truly poignant exchange that affirms life's beauty—and its beautiful conclusion.
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“Most people think [death] is very sudden. There was a recent study that over 80% of what we're shown on TV is very violent and sudden. In reality, the way I compare it is to birth; just like how our bodies know how to give birth and they know how to grow a baby, the majority of time with death, our bodies do know how to die.” - Hadley Vlahos
“For someone to say, ‘You know what, I'm going to I'm going to go home and I'm going to be with my family and I would like to remain comfortable.’ I think that there's a lot of power in that, and I don't see it as giving up at all. I see it as taking your fate into your own hands.” - Hadley Vlahos
“I wish more people would just talk to each other about the end. Surprisingly, even though someone's in hospice, I still see a lot of hesitancy to talk about the end. When they can do that, I find that patients feel a lot more peace around the end and what is coming.” - Hadley Vlahos
“What am I doing today that I would be excited to be telling my hospice nurse about one day? And that has given me an incredible drive and passion for life that I just totally didn't expect.” - Hadley Vlahos
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
The In-Between: Unforgettable encounters during life’s final moments by Hadley Vlahos
Five Wishes
Guest’s Links:
Hadley’s Website
Hadley’s Instagram
Hadley’s Facebook
Hadley’s Twitter
Hadley’s TikTok
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
Calling all book lovers, we’ve got another great entry in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club this month, and we’ve also got a good friend of Jen’s sitting in the author’s seat–none other than the amazing Kate Bowler. Kate walks us through her highly personal medical journey, as told through No Cure For Being Human and Other Truths. Kate shares the profound realization that her life depended on becoming an empowered participant in her healthcare rather than a passive recipient. As she waded through her stage 4 cancer diagnosis, the endless visits to the doctors, along with many tests and treatments, she reflected on how her willingness to be initially compliant toward the process led to a delayed choice of asserting herself toward receiving better care and choices toward her treatment. Kate and Jen also delve into the cultural fabric of American aggressive individualism, which preaches that achievements are solitary pursuits and any failure is a personal shortcoming. In a world where visible piety and the power of positive thinking are often conflated with divine approval, they dissect the harmful myths that set us up for inevitable disillusionment. With unguarded honesty, Kate sheds light on how the pressure to continuously climb the ladder of success can blind us to the presence of divine companionship in our darkest times.
* * *
Guest’s Links:
Kate’s Website
Kate’s Facebook
Kate’s Twitter
Kate’s Instagram
Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Bonus Series: Quarantine Queens and Kings ft. Kate Bowler
Everything Happens with Kate Bowler
Blessed: A History of The American Prosperity Gospel by Kate Bowler
No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear)
Focus on the Family
Jen’s Evolving Faith Sermon
Run Towards the Danger by Sarah Polley
Women Talking
Acceptance: A Memoir by Emi Nietfeld
Tell Me Everything: A Memoir by Minka Kelly
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
We’ve got another empowering episode in our Facing Your Fears series, and boy, do we have a fear that hits close to home for a lot of us – confronting those tough conversations we'd rather dance around than dive into. If the thought of confrontation has you squirming in your seat, you’re in good company. But what if we flipped the script and viewed these moments of truth-telling as acts of honor, steps towards healing and improvement?
Jen invites the insightful Dr. Rick Hanson, celebrated psychologist, acclaimed author, and speaker extraordinaire, to dissect our dread of difficult chats. Dr. Hanson is on a mission to transform confrontation into a finely honed skill that fosters lasting well-being and better relationships. His wisdom will not only challenge your perceptions but provide you with the practical tools to embrace these crucial conversations with confidence.
Don't miss out on this transformative discussion that could redefine how you approach confrontation, making your connections healthier, and you, happier.
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“Research shows that relationships are made from interactions. The gradual weight of interactions, for better or worse, over time shapes the relationship, and interactions are built from little turn-taking back and forth.” - Dr. Rick Hanson
“It's so important, these foundations to care for yourself deep down. What are your aims in your relationships, and can you build up your sense that you deserve people to treat you well? That's good. If you have choices and they don't treat you well, it's your right to shrink the size of the relationship.” - Dr. Rick Hanson
“[When communicating with difficult people] know what you want. Then, as much as you can, try to boil it down to something you can ask for that's clear and specific if that's what you really want. Then second, ask for it. Find a way to say what you want.” - Dr. Rick Hanson
“If you're going to have that conflict, get prepared; talk about it with some people. Get some advice. Write out keywords or sentences or phrases or just kind of work out a rough draft to clarify things.” - Dr. Rick Hanson“We don't have total control over the love that we receive. However, we do have control over the compassion, kindness, friendliness, respect, and love that we flow outward. So getting in touch with the heart is a neurologically, and biologically grounded way to help yourself feel less scared before you go into confrontation.” - Dr. Rick Hanson
“Interactions often go sideways when they speed up. Simply, notice in your mind when you start accelerating and you start talking faster. You must deliberately slow down, sit back, and exhale.” - Dr. Rick Hanson
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Mother Nurture by Dr. Rick Hanson
Nonviolent Communication by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD and Deepak Chopra
Making Great Relationships by Dr. Rick Hanson
Guest’s Links:
Dr. Hanson’s Website
Dr. Hanson’s Facebook
Dr. Hanson’s Twitter
Dr. Hanson’s Instagram
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
As we continue our series on facing our fears, we introduce a fear that many of us may not talk about comfortably, but in reality, we are all facing; the fact that we are aging. In case this is something that moves you into a state of deep denial, or perhaps you are employing a world of efforts (including for-profit products and practices) to stave off the inevitable progression, or even if you are just taking it all in stride, we all are subject to what the world at large has to say about it and—mostly–it’s not positive. A pervasive ageist attitude infiltrates the media we consume, our own friend groups, and even what we tell ourselves consciously and subconsciously about aging. We come by it naturally, though–with deeply ingrained stereotypes and discriminatory practices that extend everywhere from the workplace to the bedroom. Our guest this week shares how she went from being an apprehensive boomer to becoming a pro-aging radical as she dismantles myths and debunks the portrayal of older people as societal burdens; with years of research under her belt, she dreams of an aging-friendly world. Ashton Applewhite is the author of “This Chair Rocks–A Manifesto Against Ageism,” and she makes it her life’s work to expose ageist behavior, and educate us all as to how we can stop giving aging a bad rap. Jen and Ashton take an eye-opening look at ageism as a form of bias as unacceptable as any other, and give us actionable steps to ignite “age pride,” keeping in mind that aging is an integral part of our life journey, not a condition to be cured or concealed. If you’re fretfully staring down the next decade of life with fear and denial, consider the possibility that being stressed about aging actually can cause the very things we fear about aging. Ashton sums it up like this; “If you learn about aging, you will be less afraid. That knowledge and information is going to confer all kinds of protection about aging as well as you possibly can.”
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
"Almost everything I thought I knew about what it was going to be like to be significantly older was way off base or flat out wrong, or not nuanced enough.There are plenty of legitimate reasons to worry about the years ahead, but our fears are so much out of proportion to reality. We never hear the other side of the story. I mean, how come no one actually wants to go back to their youth?" - Ashton Applewhite
“When we blame everything on age, then that in itself becomes a hugely profitable industry; all the supplements, all this anti-aging, eternal life stuff--it does not work, and it's not good for you physically or psychologically.” - Ashton Applewhite
“If younger women were friends with older women, they would see how coming into our own is a source of enormous power and satisfaction. If more of us were friends with younger women, we wouldn't have this envy.” - Ashton Applewhite
“All prejudice operates to pit people against each other. And if we're squabbling, we're not going to challenge these larger forces.” - Ashton Applewhite
“Aging is not something sad that old people do. Aging is something we embark on the day we are born and if you get the memo, you can avoid stepping on this hamster wheel of fear and denial.” - Ashton Applewhite
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
This Chair Rocks by Ashton Applewhite
Let’s End Ageism - Ashton’s TED Talk
Old School Anti-Ageism Clearing House
Yo, Is This Ageist - Ashton’s Blog
Guest’s Links:
Ashton’s Website
Ashton’s Facebook
Ashton’s Twitter
Ashton’s Instagram
Ashton’s Blog
Ashton’s LinkedIn
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
We all have things that scare us. And it’s not because we’re doing life wrong; fear, in and of itself, is a normal emotion. So then what do we do with it? That's really what this series, For the Love of Facing Your Fears, is all about. Today’s guest will be walking us through some strategies on facing our fears in a healthy way by showing us what habits mentally strong people employ in their lives. Amy Morin is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author and she's devoted her whole career to the exploration of what it means to be mentally strong. Her TEDx talk, “The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong” has been lauded as one of the most impactful TEDx videos to date. Amy’s personal journey of loss juxtaposes with Jen’s recent experience of starting over again after 26 years of marriage–and they both discuss how fear played into their lives during these periods of grief and loss. Amy gives actionable, easy to employ behaviors that can set us on the course toward conquering our fears–no matter how debilitating.
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“It's so easy to get caught up in that idea of ‘I don't want my life to be different because I don't want to make it any worse and if it's going to be different, it's going to be hard to adapt to.’” - Amy Morin
“Our fear meters in life are often super faulty. We think if something feels scary, we shouldn't do it and then we don't. I lived a lot of my life like that. Well, that's the perfect recipe for depression, because you live a really safe life and you don't go out there and figure out how exciting things can be and how much you're capable of doing.” - Amy Morin
“When our fear runs really high, our intelligence runs really low. You want to balance that and take notice of how scared you feel right now? Fear will cause you to overestimate the likelihood that everything's going to go wrong. It will cause you to underestimate your own capabilities so you’ve got to raise your logic and balance out that fear a little bit.” - Amy Morin
“Taking back your power is all about just stepping back and realizing these are my choices. This is my day, my life. How do I want to spend it? Do I need to set a boundary? Do I need to at least change my language so that I'm not saying other people are forcing me to do something, as opposed to just recognizing I don't want to do this, but I'm going to do it anyway?” - Amy Morin
“Mentally strong people don't feel the world owes them anything.” - Amy Morin
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong - Amy Morin’s TEDx Talk
13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do by Amy Morin (Article)
13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do (Book)
Guest’s Links:
Amy’s Website
Amy’s Facebook
Amy’s Twitter
Amy’s Instagram
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
Isn’t it fun to be part of the in-crowd? Where you can connect with people who are of like minds and spirits, where everyone seems to be headed in the same direction? But what if you start having nagging questions as an insider that don’t seem to get resolved, and even worse, are met with disdain or fear from other members of your group? This can be a scary place for so many of us. For the purposes of our conversation today–we’re talking about when it happens in religious spaces. For years, singer/songwriter Derek Webb was very much on the “inside” of what was happening in Christendom as a top selling, award winning Christian artist, songwriter and worship leader. It took a few disruptions to his own life that sent him down the road to evaluating his faith, his beliefs and how he wanted to move forward with the new information he’d gained. Now, decidedly an “outsider” who tries to still take up space in the Christian zeitgeist to potentially model a different way of living, Derek has gone on to record solo albums and also work with artists that aren’t typical to Christian music–like drag queen Flamy Grant—with whom, incidentally, he attended the Gospel Music Dove Awards in 2023 (and who also had a number one Christian song pop up on the charts), with the intention of making people who are Christian and LGBTQ+IA feel less alone. In this episode, Jen and Derek compare their journeys as “peaceful disruptors,” what it cost them and what they gained in the process
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“So now here I am, 20 years [after going solo] and I'm spoiled into thinking that I can write songs about things no one else is writing songs about, and that's kind of my thing now.” - Derek Webb
“I'd been so obsessed on thinking about, obsessed on my language about God, that I forgot to apply it to the way I behave in the world, the way I treat other people, which is ethics. And I realized, 'Oh no, how did I miss that?' As I stand before you as the ringing symbol, the clanging gong when I've got all the right words and none of the love, none of the fruit.” - Derek Webb
“I had to rebuild at almost 40, I had to rebuild a whole life and reckon with the fallout, at least my part of the responsibility of some real hurt. I caused a lot of people who I love to hurt, the people I love more than anybody in the world. And it humbled me.” - Derek Webb
“Flamy Grant and Semler were not the first two queer artists to have number-one albums and singles on the Christian music charts. It has happened so many times over the years, but by people who are closeted and people who live in tremendous fear in that space because they know they will be immediately rejected, excluded, marginalized, out.” - Derek Webb
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Caedmon’s Call
Aaron Tate’s Website
Second Baptist Church
She Must and Shall Go Free - Album by Derek Webb
Essential Records
Third Day
Jars Of Clay
Plumb
The Prayer of Jabez
Wedding Dress by Derek Webb
Grace Point Church
The Jesus Hypothesis
Boys Will Be Girls Music Video
Grace Semler Baldridge
Flamy Grant Instagram
Drag Queen at Christian Music Awards Sparks Backlash (Newsweek Article)
Guest’s Links:
Derek’s Website - https://www.derekwebb.com/home
Derek’s Facebook - http://facebook.com/derekwebb
Derek’s Instagram - http://instagram.com/derekwebb
Derek’s TikTok - http://tiktok.com/@derekwwebb
Derek’s Twitter - http://twitter.com/derekwebb
Derek’s YouTube - http://youtube.com/user/derekwebb
Derek’s Patreon - http://patreon.com/derekwebb
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices -
Do you ever feel like you don’t have all the answers and information you need around your very own body? Are there beliefs or “facts” you might have learned that maybe aren’t actually centered around truth or science? Perhaps you’ve entered various seasons of your life as a female (menstruation, fertility, childbirth, hormone fluctuation, perimenopause, menopause) where you’ve felt like your concerns were dismissed or you weren’t given the tools, knowledge or treatment to help you navigate these season as well as you’d like. Whether you avidly seek knowledge about your body, or you’re bumping up against walls in what has been, historically, a lopsided research culture where male health has been more highly prioritized, we’ve got a guest today who is determined to correct that inequity with scienfitic and experiential information, research and active destigmatization. Dr. Jen Gunter is an obsetritican gynecologist and a bestselling author (The Vagina Bible, The Menopause Manifesto) who has made it her goal in life to “fix the internet” regarding information about women’s bodies and correcting the misinformation that runs rampant there; long held myths that cause fear, stress and even shame around our female phsyiology. Dr. Gunter debunks common misconceptions around our periods, our hymens (fyi, it’s not a “freshness” seal), synthetic hormones, menopause symptoms and more. Bottom line: you deserve to know about your body, and this conversation opens the door to finding true and accurate information that will help dismiss the fears you may have around all the seasons of your female health experience.
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“I think the average high schooler probably graduates knowing more about frog biology than human biology. No shade to animal physiology. It's super important. However, high school should also be teaching you more practical information as well as things to advance you academically.” - Dr. Jen Gunter
“People deserve to know how their body works.” - Dr. Jen Gunter
“If you don't have that foundation of the menstrual cycle and you don’t know how it all works, it's harder to understand what's going on with menopause” - Dr. Jen Gunter
“Basically, menopause is puberty in reverse." - Dr. Jen Gunter
“If you could only do one intervention for a healthy menopause, it would not be estrogen. It would be exercise. Exercise touches every domain of every single thing that's going to be on your bothersome list. Exercise improves sleep, exercise reduces dementia. Exercise reduces heart disease. The only thing that it doesn't help is hot flashes.” - Dr. Jen Gunter
“Every single hormone that you get, whether it's a pharmaceutical estrogen or it's something from a compounding pharmacy, comes from the exact same plant. It’s all from the same source.” - Dr. Jen Gunter
“You're more than your menstrual cycle. You're awesome whether you have estrogen or not. It has nothing to do with your awesomeness. It really doesn't.” - Dr. Jen Gunter
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Guardian Article about Dr. Jen Gunter
The Vagina Bible by Dr. Jen Gunter
Menopause Manifesto by Dr. Jen Gunter
Jensplaining - Dr. Jen Gunter’s Amazon Prime Series
2020 NAMS Media Award from the North American Menopause Society Recipients
“Why can’t we talk about periods” - Dr. Jen Gunters 2020 Ted Talk
Body Stuff with Dr. Jen Gunter
Blood: The Science, Medicine, and Mythology of Menstruation by Dr. Jen Gunter
The Vajenda - Dr. Jen Gunter’s Substack Newsletter
The Preemie Primer: A Complete Guide for Parents of Premature Babies--from Birth through the Toddler Years and Beyond by Dr. Jen Gunter
Ensure Meal Replacement
Guest’s Links:
Dr. Gunter’s Website
Dr. Gunter’s Twitter
Dr. Gunter’s Facebook
Dr. Gunter’s Instagram
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website
Jen’s Instagram
Jen’s Twitter
Jen’s Facebook
Jen’s YouTube
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices - Show more
