• Welcome back to another enlightening episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast! This week, we dive deep into a topic that resonates with so many of us: bone health. We often think we’re doing enough by following generic health programs, but what if those programs fall short when it comes to bone health? What if there’s a better way to ensure stronger, healthier bones?

    🎙️ Episode Highlights:

    In this episode, we are thrilled to welcome Kevin Ellis, famously known as Bone Coach™, into our midst. Kevin is not just any health coach; he's a Forbes-featured certified integrative nutrition health coach, podcaster, YouTuber, bone health advocate, and the founder of BoneCoach.com. With his unique 3-step process and world-class coaching program, the Stronger Bones Solution™, Kevin has transformed the lives of thousands across the globe.

    Key Points Discussed:The Reality of Osteoporosis and Osteopenia: Understanding why traditional programs might not be enough.Kevin's Unique 3-Step Process: Learn about the innovative Stronger Bones Solution™ that has helped individuals in over 1500+ cities worldwide.Personal Stories and Success: Hear inspiring stories from people who have regained confidence in their bone health journey.A Vision for the Future: Kevin's mission isn't just about the present. Discover how he plans to help future generations prevent osteoporosis and lead long, active lives.

    Kevin's approach is both inspiring and informative, providing actionable insights and practical steps that you can start implementing today. His dedication goes beyond just addressing current issues; it's about paving the way for a healthier future for our children and grandchildren.

    🦴 Who Should Listen?

    This episode is a must-listen for midlife women who are looking to take control of their bone health. Whether you’ve been diagnosed with osteopenia or osteoporosis or simply want to ensure your bones stay strong and healthy, this episode offers invaluable advice and guidance.


    Bone health is more than just a medical concern; it's a critical component of living an active and fulfilling life. Kevin Ellis’s expertise and passion shine through in this episode, offering you not just hope but a practical roadmap to stronger, healthier bones. Let’s embark on this journey together and make bone health a priority!

    Don’t forget to subscribe to The Hormone Prescription Podcast and leave us a review. We love hearing your thoughts and experiences. Until next time, stay healthy and stay strong!


    By engaging with this episode, you’re not just taking steps toward better bone health; you’re joining a global movement dedicated to a healthier, more active future. Listen now and be inspired!


    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

    You don't have to know where each step is placed day one. You just have to know where you want your path to lead. Kevin Ellis, stay tuned for the Bone Coach who will share his groundbreaking program with you to make sure that your bones stay strong and vital as you age.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:19):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYNI had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (01:13):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me today. As we talk with Kevin Ellis, also known as The Bone Coach, Kevin has a unique three step process and coaching program called Stronger Bone Solution. He's gonna share with you, he's gonna share so much. He really has a great way of articulating the importance of bone health. We're gonna talk about diagnostics. How do you know if you have an issue with this? What are the correct diagnostic tools you should be undergoing? You're probably not getting this information in your regular doctor's office. I even share a story about one of my clients who had a kind of interesting experience with her primary care doctor around that. So we're gonna dive into that. And you know, bone health is super important. It's kind of one of the most silent diseases because most of us start losing bone mass around the age of 30 unless we're doing something to prevent bone loss.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (02:16):

    And most of us are not. And it accelerates more in women than men, which is super unfair. But it's just a reality for various reasons that we're gonna touch upon. Also related to your hormones as we go through midlife. So if you're not doing diagnostics around this and you're not paying attention and being proactive, I promise you this is happening to you. As you're sitting there listening to my voice, whether you're driving your car or gardening or doing the dishes, you are losing bone mass if you're not doing something to prevent bone mass loss if you're over 30. It's just a fact. And so the only way that you really will know this is a problem if you don't do anything about it, is you might fall when you're older and have a fracture, which can be devastating because a third of women who fall and have a hip fracture because they have osteoporosis, will die from it.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:20):

    Yes, die. It's one of the leasing causes of death in older women, a third of us who that happens to will become incapacitated, where we can no longer live independently. That means you have to move out of where you've lived your whole life maybe, and into a facility where you have assisted care all the time and you lose your freedom <laugh> and you lose lots of things that come along with that, that change. So I know we talk about it really in this kind of detached, often the future way, like we're not talking about you, but yes, we are talking about you. So this is a vital episode for everyone to listen to. Even if you're a guy, there are men who listen to my show too. Hi guys. And I love that because you help the women in your life and this is you, you need to listen.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (04:09):

    But we're gonna talk about how you can know this is an issue for you earlier. And then most importantly, what do you do about it? Kevin has some great resources for you. He explains things in plain English in a down to earth way just like I do. So I think you're really gonna love our discussion. I'll tell you a little bit more about him and then we'll get started. Kevin Ellis is better known as the Bone Coach. He is a Forbes featured integrative health coach podcaster and is the founder of Bone coach.com. Through a unique three-step process and the world class coaching program called Stronger Bone Solution, he and this team have helped thousands of people with osteopenia and osteoporosis in over 1500 cities around the world get confident in their stronger bones plan. His mission is to help millions of people with osteoporosis build stronger bones and to help our children and grandchildren create a strong and healthy foundation so they can lead long active lives. Please help me welcome Kevin to the show.

    Kevin Ellis (05:11):

    Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to this. It's gonna be a great conversation.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (05:15):

    It is. I have been waiting to have you on the show for a couple years. You are super busy because you have a su super successful program in helping people reverse their bone density and improve it whether they have osteoporosis, osteopenia. And so I'm really glad to have you on the show and share you with my audience. Some of my listeners may know, 'cause I talk about <laugh>, I'm an open book when it comes to my health and my family's health, and my mom has the worst osteoporosis I've ever seen. No surprise that she also has Alzheimer's, right? 'cause The two are connected and connected also with hormone imbalance. She was in hormonal poverty for three decades without treatment. So I think it it's great to launch into this talk really with you telling everyone why you're so passionate about the work that you do.

    Kevin Ellis (06:10):

    Yeah. 'cause usually when you're thinking about bone health or you're thinking about osteopenia or osteoporosis or stronger bones, you're not typically thinking about the younger male, right? You're, you're typically thinking about somebody later in life. Maybe it's maybe just like you said a mother or a grandmother or an aunt or a friend or someone like that who's experienced the effects of maybe fractures or osteoporosis and how you saw that, how that impacted their quality of life in their later years. So it's usually not the younger male that's passionate about this or talking about this, but for me, my journey really started a long time ago. And like a lot of us in the health space, my journey started through my own health issues and challenges. So when I came outta the Marine Corps, I had a lot of different health issues, high stress, poor sleep, chronic digestive distress, couldn't figure out what was going on.

    Kevin Ellis (06:54):

    My energy was almost non-existent. Some days I could barely even get out of bed. And then I was diagnosed with celiac disease. And for those who are not familiar, celiac disease is an autoimmune condition where when you ingest gluten, the tiny little nutrient absorption centers inside your small intestine, they're called vii. And I, I like to call 'em roots in your soil. And my roots were becoming damaged and they were becoming blunted and they couldn't do their job. And my body still needed these important nutrients to execute its daily functions, specifically calcium, because calcium is the primary mineral constituent of your bones. But you also need it for muscle contractions, for nerve impulses, for a, a variety of other things. So I wasn't absorbing these important nutrients and my body was going to the largest reserve of minerals I had, which were my bones and pulling from there.

    Kevin Ellis (07:40):

    So celiac disease led to bone loss and a subsequent diagnosis of osteoporosis. And this was right around 30 years old. And for anyone to get that diagnosis at any point, it can be scary. And you know, for me at a young age, I still was trying to make sense of it all. And there was fear was a very strong impetus and driver for me and also wanting to be there for my kids in the future because I lost my father when I was two months old. And all I ever wanted was to have that person in my life. And I didn't wanna leave my kids in a position where, you know, they didn't have me there too. So I had a pretty strong reason to make improvements and I put this plan together, I did the research, consulted with people, and I ended up turning this, this health journey into a passion. And I became a coach and I built out a program and grew that community to a couple hundred thousand people. And we've got over 10,000 people that have come through these stronger bones programs now. So it's, it's just really a passion of mine through personal experience, but also just seeing the lives of people we've changed and transformed and how they get to live their most best lives that you know in the future. So

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (08:43):

    Yeah, I love hear hearing how people came to do what they do, that they love, that they're passionate about those. So thank you for sharing that. And I think that a lot of women listening right now don't think that we're talking to them because osteopenia, osteoporosis, bone loss really has no symptoms until you are at the point where you start getting fractures, right? It might be spinal compression fractures or you could fall when you're older and and break something. But I find that this is so <laugh> under-discussed in the medical community. And I actually recently had a patient who shared with me that she went and got a bone density. 'cause I advised everyone to get a bone density and based on certain parameters, which we can talk about. And she definitely qualified as needing one. And she went and got it and she had osteoporosis and she took it to her primary care doctor who basically scolded her and yelled at her for getting a bone density.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (09:50):

    I don't know if you've come across situations like that, but increasingly I'm having patients come to me where their doctors are getting angry at them for getting screening tests that they really needed, that their doctor didn't recommend bone density being one of them because, you know, his whole attitude was, well now you have osteoporosis, what are I gonna do about that? Because he didn't know what to do. So this is why I love what you do because doctors really don't have an answer. And the fact I was so angry after she told me that, that her doctor got mad at her. So can we talk a little bit about what is appropriate screening? Who should be getting screening? What screening should they be getting? Because I think a lot of the women listening have never had the proper screening and don't even know that they need it and they don't know that we're talking to them.

    Kevin Ellis (10:36):

    Yeah, this is, this is so important. I'm glad we're talking about this because number one, you as the patient have the right to be the educated and empowered advocate for you. You have the right to ask for tests. You have the right to get those tests done and to see where you're at and get some objective baseline markers and monitor those changes. You as the patient you should be asking for that. That's how you take care of yourself long term. Because a lot of times what happens when I see people, a lot of people, they want to prevent future fractures. They may not already be at that point, but some people I've seen, they've already fractured a lot of times, 5, 10, 15 times, even some. So we want to prevent that from happening. So how do you do that? Well, first let's understand that every single person has bones in their body.

    Kevin Ellis (11:18):

    Your bone health is important and you're putting on 90% of your bone mass by the time you turn age 18. And by the time you turn 30, the remaining 10% approximately is gonna fill in. And that's what we call peak bone mass or what I call a full bucket, right? So if when you were younger, you had poor diet nutrition, you drank a bunch of sugary soft drinks, you ate a bunch of candy, you weren't getting enough calcium, vitamin D, magnesium K two, you weren't getting enough protein in your diet. Or if you're listening to this and you've got kids or grandkids, think through that lens too. Not just what you went through, but what maybe your kids are going through right now. If we led a sedentary lifestyle, if we weren't out playing sports or being active or moving our bodies and our bones in these short, sharp, dynamic movements to help stimulate good healthy bone growth from a young age or doing gymnastics, right?

    Kevin Ellis (12:10):

    Get those kids in gymnastics if, if possible because gymnasts have some of the best bone density out there. And then if we had an eating disorder when we were younger, if we took certain medications like glucocorticoids or if we smoked or drank excessively, all of those things could have prevented you from reaching peak bone masses starting with that full bucket. So it's good to understand how, how your bones are being built over time. And it's good to also know, hey there, there are probably some contributors I had in my youth. What are the things I can do now to understand where I'm at and what I need to do to move forward? So I like to see people getting these objective markers and baselines early in your thirties to forties, right? If you get a baseline right around the time you, you achieve peak bone mass, 30 years old, then you can monitor those changes over time.

    Kevin Ellis (12:57):

    And that's a great place to start. If you're already past 30 and you haven't had a bone density scan yet, you can get one. If you can't go to your doctor and get one, go to an external radiology group and get one. If you have any chronic digestive issues, especially if you have celiac disease, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, any, any of those absorption conditions, you have a reason to go to your doctor and say, Hey, I believe this is contributing to bone loss and I'd like to dig a little bit further. Can we get this test? And that's how you go about having those conversations. Or you can even just say, Hey look, I, I'm not saying no to your recommendations, I'm just saying can you help me get a little bit more data to make the best decision to move forward? Right? So if you just have that kind of dialogue instead of shutting your physicians down, that may lead to MM-hmm <affirmative> better results.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (13:42):

    And then what kind of bone density should they be asking for? Because they're not all bone density testing is created equal <laugh>.

    Kevin Ellis (13:50):

    That's right. Yeah. So we would look for a DEXA scan, dual energy x-ray absor geometry, it's painless test, kind of like an X-ray, but very low levels of radiation. You lay down on the machine, it does a scan and it tells you your bone mineral density and then it generates a score. And that score is, if it's plus one or minus one, you're gonna be told that's normal and healthy. If it's minus one to minus 2.5, you're gonna be told that's osteopenia. We would call that low bone mass. And that's like a precursor to osteoporosis and minus 2.5 or lower. So minus 2.6, minus 2.7, so on and so forth. That's considered osteoporosis. And the greater the negative number becomes the more severe the osteoporosis. Now important note, bone density is only part of the picture. It's an important part, but it's only part of the picture.

    Kevin Ellis (14:37):

    So if we wanna really understand stronger bones, you have to know that bone density is the actual mineral content of the bone. Bone quality is the structural integrity of the bone, the micro architecture, how the bone is organized. Those two things combine to create bone strength. So a lot of times you only have part of the picture if you're just getting a bone density scan. So how do I get the bone quality part? Well, there's an add-on software to the DEXA scan that you can get. It's called TBS trabecular bone score. You can call a facility ahead of time, ask 'em if they have the capability and then just confirm with the technician before you start your scan, just say, Hey, do you have the TBS? 'cause It's, it's, you're gonna be able to get all that data just in that one scan, which can be great.

    Kevin Ellis (15:20):

    So you have bone density, bone quality, there's another technology out there that is, it's more prevalent in Europe, it's making its way more into the US now it's called rems, radiofrequency echo graphic multis spectometry technology. And it's found in a device called echo light. And this looks at the, it's an ultrasound technology that looks at your bone density, your bone quality and gives you a five-year fragility score, like a predictor of fracture basically. And that can also be another tool that you use. And the the last set of tools that I would encourage people to look at are when you get these tests, these, these markers of bone density and bone quality, you have to understand that if you only have one, you don't know if you're actively losing bone right now, present day as we speak. So what are the things that we can look at to understand what's going on right now in our bones?

    Kevin Ellis (16:12):

    Well, we'll look at bone turnover markers and bone turnover markers. Look at the activity level of cells that are building up and breaking down your bone and let's if the, the bone turnover markers, we're gonna talk about bone resorption. The most sensitive marker for bone resorption is serum CTX. And that is a CT low peptide test. And that looks at the activity level of cells that are breaking down bone. So if that activity level is elevated or even really high, that can be an indicator of active bone loss and a root cause issue that needs to be explored and addressed. And if we have, if we're looking at bone resorption, we also wanna look at bone formation. So the most sensitive marker for bone formation is called P one and P, that's pro collagen type one and terminal propeptide. And this looks at the activity level cells that are building up that bone. So you wanna look at, you wanna look at those two things at the same time. So those are some markers. I love that. And where you're at.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (17:08):

    Comprehensive answer. Thank you so much. So everybody listening, we're gonna give some, Kevin has some great resources for you to get further information. So don't freak out about what are all the, this lingo you're hearing about. He's got more resources to really support you in your bone journey, whether you've got great bone mass or you're already losing bone mass because bone mass is something you have to promote. Just like you don't clean your house one time and it stays clean, you have to clean it periodically. So it's something you need to work on. So let's dive into talking about the connection between bone health and hormones because I don't think a lot of women get that there's a connection and particularly women at midlife don't realize that they're being robbed in the middle of the night while they're sleeping a bone mass and it has something to do with their hormones. Can we talk a little bit about that?

    Kevin Ellis (18:05):

    We most certainly can. So there are different types. There's absolutely a hormone connection, there's a major hormone connection to osteoporosis and bone loss and stronger bones. So let's start with, there are different types of osteoporosis. There is primary osteoporosis that is typically related to a decrease in estrogen. In post-menopausal women. Estrogen has a protective effect on bone as estrogen levels decrease as they do during menopause or even before menopause. That can cause an increase in the activity level of cells that break down bone. And when that activity level elevated and really high, that's gonna cause more bone loss, right? And over time, even in the five years right around that transition, some women can lose up to 20% of their bone mass in that, in that period of time. And that's pretty significant, right? So we have to be aware of that, that major hormonal change that's happening and even take some proactive steps to, to do that.

    Kevin Ellis (18:59):

    And I know Dr. Karen, you, you talk about this all the time, but in terms of other causes of osteoporosis, there's secondary osteoporosis and that is where it occurs as a result of behaviors, disorders, diseases, conditions, and medications. So there can be different reasons for that bone loss that's taking place. Hormones can absolutely play a role, especially estrogen. And then if we're talking about bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, if that is part of your plan, you know, and it's different for every single person, and I know you talk about this quite a bit, but estrogen can help with the prevention of bone loss, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA can help with supporting the bone building side of things too. So there, there are things that you can do from a hormonal perspective and that again, it varies for every single person. You gotta work with a practitioner to help you figure out what's right for you. But just know those can be some tools to help support you as you start moving in the right direction or even preventing some of that loss from happening.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (19:52):

    I just wanna make the point for everybody listening that there really is no current recommendation on use of sex hormones or what I like to call flex hormones because they have flexible functions. It's not just about sex. For the prevention of bone loss, really there isn't. So when you're talking to your doctor about hormones, you're probably not gonna get some of the information that we're sharing with you today about the fact that it does help prevent bone loss. So it's something that you're going to have to bring up. And the fact that flex hormone therapy or getting to a state of what I call hormonal prosperity actually helps you to build bone. There is a recommendation using estrogen in particular to reverse or treat osteoporosis. It's not considered a first line therapy though, which we might get into talking about medications and they don't talk about the use of other bone building agents like testosterone is super important for women too. So I, I'd love to just give that caveat because a lot of times people will hear something on the show and then they go running to their doctor and say, well I heard Kevin talking about this, Karen talking about that, and, and they just get poo-pooed and then they get really confused because they're kind of being gaslit but don't realize it <laugh>. Yeah. So that's why I like to, to tell them what to expect when you bring this information you're super excited about to your, your doctor

    Kevin Ellis (21:24):

    And, and you have to realize too, and it's just, you kind of just touched on medication. But you have to realize too that when you go into the conventional medical model and you're having these conversations, just know that the standard recommendation that will be provided for you is take some calcium, take some vitamin D, go for a walk, don't lift anything heavy over, you know, very small amounts of weight and here's this medication, take it. And we'll see you in two years for your next bone density scan. I would bet if anyone has already had this conversation with their doctor, 95% of you're like nodding your head. Yeah, that's exactly what I heard. Right? There is so much more to bone health than that. There are so many other pieces and let's even, I'd love to just touch on the medication because that that conversation is gonna come up.

    Kevin Ellis (22:13):

    So if you're okay with that. Sure. Briefly, I, I would, I'm not anti-medication. I have seen a lot of situations where it's necessary in lifesaving for some people, but I am pro do everything you possibly can naturally first before considering that as an option. Because when it comes to these bone medications, they have a dramatic effect on bone physiology. It's not like taking an aspirin. And there are different categories of these drugs. There are anti-resorptive medications and there are anabolic medications. Anti-Resorptive medications are designed to slow down the activity level of cells that are breaking down bone. Can they do that? Of course they can, but there are risks and side effects that come with their use. So for antiresorptives, this would be broken down into bisphosphonates and rank lain inhibitors. Bisphosphonates, you've probably heard of some of these before would be your Fosamax, your bon niva, your reclass, those kind of drugs, those are bisphosphonates and your rank lain inhibitors are like Prolia.

    Kevin Ellis (23:11):

    Okay? So bisphosphonates, the safety and efficacy of these drugs, not really well known beyond five years. And as you and I are going about our daily lives, doing our daily activities, exercising, doing chores around the house, we're starting to get these tiny little micro cracks, micro fractures in our bones. That's normal, right? For every single person. That's normal. And then what happens is you have cells within the bone called osteocytes, they're like orchestrators of this bone remodeling process. They sense that damage and they send out a signal and say, Hey, we need to become stronger. And that signal is picked up by other cells and these cells called osteoclast, they come in and they, they scoop out that damaged bone and right behind it, it's a coupled process. You have these other cells called osteoblasts that come in and build stronger, healthier new bone. That is a normal remodeling process that happens throughout our lives.

    Kevin Ellis (24:03):

    When you're taking some of these medications, especially longer term, multiple years, you can actually slow down that activity level too much to where you start to accumulate that old worn damage weakened bone over time. So even if you're taking one of these longer term and you're seeing improvements or you're seeing stability in your bone density scan, that quality, that structural integrity, it may not be there, right? So you may not actually have stronger bones, your bones may end up being weaker, just, it just depends. So you have to be aware of these things before you jump into them. And then other certain medications like Prolia, you can't just take that medication and then stop taking it because you'll have what's called a rebound effect. And that can increase the risk of ver vertebral fractures. So again, most people don't get that education in a 15 minute conversation before they just jump into taking a medication.

    Kevin Ellis (24:54):

    And then the other category of drugs are called anabolics. And those drugs are designed to build bone, build better quality bone and build it faster. Can they do that? Yes. Are there risks and side effects and implications of use? Of course. So you can only take 'em for a certain period of time and once you take them you have to follow it with another medication just to not lose the bone you gained. So the reason I tell people this is ask questions. It's okay to pause, to take a deep breath to make those decisions and to, to just make the most educated, empowered decision you can.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (25:26):

    Yeah, super important to know about the medications, be an informed consumer, know what your options are because a lot of times you're not gonna get all the information when you're talking to your doctor. You're just gonna get a prescription here, take this. But what I love about what you do and the resource that you have for everybody is that you really help them to understand, like I I always say I'm not the type of physician who's just gonna tell you do what I say because I'm the expert. I'm gonna educate you about how your body works and help you make the best choice for yourself and you do the same. And that's what I love about the work you do. I think gone are the days when we can just abdicate control of our health to our healthcare provider and assume they have our best interests at heart.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (26:09):

    We really have to become the CEOs of our own health and have a working knowledge of how our body works. Otherwise, we're gonna kind of get to the later in the finish line and be upset like a woman I talked to recently who's in her eighties and having all these consequences of hormonal poverty and she's really angry and saying, why didn't anyone tell me? Why Didn't anyone tell me what I was signing up for <laugh> when I didn't, when I went into hormonal poverty at menopause and nobody helped me to get out. I, I think something else that's really important. I know we only have so much time to talk today and that's why I love that you have this extra class everyone can attend, which we'll give you details on later, is exercise. I was talking with a client just a couple hours ago about exercise and when most women at midlife hear the word exercise, they think aerobics and <laugh>, they don't think about weight-bearing exercise or if we hear weight-bearing exercise, we don't necessarily think you're talking about weights.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (27:14):

    This woman was actually kind of interesting won't give details on her name or anything, so it's confidential, but the situation I think is very common. I hear this a lot. She didn't wanna lift weights 'cause she didn't wanna bulk up like a man. Also, she was noticing when she was doing certain exercises like squats or arm ex upper arm exercises that she was having discomfort so she stopped doing them. So I know that's a lot of information in there, but basically let's talk about what kind of exercise do you do need to do for your bones?

    Kevin Ellis (27:47):

    Yeah, exercise is so important. You can be eating all the right foods, which most of the time people think they're eating. I hear this all the time. People are, I feel like I'm eating healthy, I feel like I'm exercising and I still have this condition. Why is this? Well, you have to provide the proper stimulus that your bones need to become stronger and your bones need a couple different types of stimuli. You need impact and you need muscle pulling on bone. So when the muscle pulls on bone, there's this mechanical signal that sends a chemical signal to tell the bones to become stronger. Most people, like I said, when they get diagnosed, they're told, Hey, do some walking. Don't lift anything heavy and just kind of avoid anything that could potentially cause a fall or fracture. Do.Dot that could actually be some of the worst advice that people get is to not put any stimulus on those bones.

    Kevin Ellis (28:33):

    And the reason I say that is you have to have weight-bearing exercise and you have to have resistance training and muscle strengthening. So what is weight-bearing exercise weight-bearing exercise is anything where your body and your bones are working against gravity to keep you upright. There are things you're doing on your feet and they're placing a good healthy stress on those bones. So that would be, you're walking, you're jogging, you're hiking, you're gardening, you're playing pickleball, you're running around with the kids and the grandkids out in the yard. All those things are considered weight-bearing exercise. It also would be yoga, Pilates, tai chi, qigong, dancing, even All those things are weight-bearing exercise. If you are doing those things, keep doing 'em and you can incorporate this into your plan. Okay? You have to also be aware of non-weightbearing exercise. And this is where your body and your bones are not working against gravity to keep you upright and they are not placing good healthy stress on your bones.

    Kevin Ellis (29:27):

    And if one of these activities is your primary form of exercise and the only thing you incorporate, you need to do more, right? So if you're doing swimming or cycling, especially swimming, you need to be aware of this. And swimming specifically, it's not that if you do it and it makes you happy and it brings you joy and you're, you just love getting in the pool and swimming around, that's great. You can keep doing this, but don't get in the pool five days a week, swim a couple laps, get out and say, I did my exercise. 'cause You didn't, you have to provide the stimulus that your bones need. And that would be this next form of exercise, which is muscle strengthening and resistance training exercise. And this is where you're bringing in, maybe it's the barbells, the dumbbells, the the resistance bands, the machines at the gym, if that's where your comfort level is at and you're starting to incorporate some, some really good movements that can be helpful.

    Kevin Ellis (30:23):

    Now, if you are new to weightlifting or resistance training or muscle strengthening exercise, don't be intimidated by some of the things I'm gonna share because you don't have to start at the highest, most intense level. That's not where we recommend people start. We want you to start at a weight that you're comfortable with, that we can look at your body mechanics that we can get you doing things with good form and slowly build up that intensity from there to where you just know how to do it and you're comfortable, right? So that's where we're doing things like squats or this is, it sounds scary, but it's actually not that scary. Dead lifts, right? Overhead presses. And there are other exercises that we can incorporate there too, but those are some great foundational movements that we can incorporate and we want to build up that intensity. Five to 10 repetition range can be a great, a great range to be in, but you gotta have good form, right? So again, you don't have to start at the most intense place day one. You just gotta slowly build up from there.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (31:18):

    Yeah, I, I'm so glad that we're talking about this because I do think that just a lot of women miss it. We really do need the weights, the weightbearing activities and working with weights and it's something that a lot of women aren't familiar with, so they shy away from it. And I just thought it was interesting. The woman earlier said that she started having discomfort and so she just stopped doing it and she just wrote that off, I don't need to do that. It hurts <laugh>. Yeah. So it gave us the opportunity to have a, a conversation about, well, no, it's just like when, when something hurts in your body, you've gotta investigate why. Same with lifting weights. If you're having pain, you probably need to look into why.

    Kevin Ellis (31:57):

    Exactly. And, and just to give you an example, every single person is different. They're at different fitness and activity levels. They have different conditions, they have different pain in their body. So we actually teach people how to modify things to address this. I know we're gonna share this resource here in a little bit, but we'll teach people how to, you know, if they've got pain in any area, any area of their body, their neck, their shoulders, their back, their hips, their knees, their feet, and they're worried about their bones. We teach modifications, adjustments and tweaks to where you can actually provide the stimulus that you need. Or if people have specific conditions that they're trying to navigate, stenosis, scoliosis, spondylothesis, osteoarthritis, degenerative disc, or you've already had a fracture, we will teach modifications, adjustments, and tweaks to make sure you know how to, how to do those things safely and still provide stimulus that you need. So yeah, a lot of times pain, it can either prevent people from taking action altogether or it can compromise their body mechanics and put them at greater risk of injury. So we just wanna make sure they're doing the right things and they've got the right form as they get into these movements.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (33:00):

    Two questions I definitely wanna ask you before we wrap up. And number one is, I know some women are probably thinking, so I'm getting thin bones, it's not that big a deal. But what they don't understand are the consequences they're signing up for or the potential consequences of having thin bones. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I I, more than anything from this episode, I want everyone to really get the message. You need a, you need to check your bone density now it's vital and you need to do something about it if it's not optimal. So what kind of consequences are we talking about?

    Kevin Ellis (33:38):

    Yeah, I'm, well, a lot of times the biggest concern is, is fracture, right? So if you have seen anybody later in life, whether it's a mother or grandmother or something like that, I used to work at a retirement home when I was, when I was a lot younger and that was one of the first jobs I had. And I always talk about how that had a dramatic impact on my life because I saw people in their final years and what they looked like and what their quality of life was like, and whether they were hunched over kind of making their way to the dining hall or they, they were just upright chatting, having fun with their friends. And that had a really big impact on me. And the biggest concern that I see people when they come to us is they're concerned about fracture. Because when we have fractures that that's gonna dramatically impact your life, they can be life changing, they can be debilitating six months after a hip fracture, you've only got about 15% of patients can walk across a room unaided every year.

    Kevin Ellis (34:26):

    We've got about 300,000 hip fracture patients. A quarter of people end up in nursing homes, half of them never regain their previous function. So it's, it's not to, not to scare people because just because you have low bone density doesn't mean you're gonna fracture, right? There are preventative things you can do to build stronger bone to prevent that from even being your fate. A fracture is a possibility and it does happen. So we need to do everything we possibly can to preserve and strengthen this structure that's gonna carry you to an active future. And that's a big part of what we focus on.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (34:55):

    Right. And then the other thing I wanted to talk about, we talked about the sex or flex hormones when it comes to bone density, but we didn't touch on cortisol, the stress hormone, which also gets to gut health and bone. And I don't think that a lot of people are a aware of the connection between other hormones like cortisol, which relates to gut health and bone health. Can you talk a little bit about that briefly?

    Kevin Ellis (35:21):

    Yeah, I certainly can. So there's a major connection, let's even start with the gut health piece too. 'cause Yes, of course stress hormone cortisol that can impact your gut health can increase the, can increase intestinal permeability, leaky gut. But with gut health, there are a couple ways that this can affect your bones. So the first way is kind of what I talked about with celiac disease, the absorption of nutrients and having challenges with, with that, that can cause your body to pull minerals in from the bones and that can, that can lead to bone loss if you have issues with absorption. The other issue when it comes to gut health and bone health is that your bones are living tissue. They're not just these static structures that hold you up right and carry you through life. They do that and they do a really good job of it.

    Kevin Ellis (36:04):

    But inside your bones you have something called bone marrow. And bone marrow is a soft spongy material. It produces 95% of the blood cells in your body. So if you need help with preventing bleeding and clotting, that's where platelets are gonna come in. If you need help with carrying oxygen to the body's tissues, carrying carbon dioxide away from the tissues back to the lungs, red blood cells are gonna help with that. But if you need help with fighting infections, healing wounds, anything related to the immune system, that's where white blood cells come in. Well, the cells that break down bone are a form of white blood cell. So anything that is stimulating the immune system is speaking in the same language as the cells that break down bone. Where does 70% of your immune system reside in your gut? So if you have digestive issues, especially chronic and long term, it's not just a matter of am I absorbing my nutrients, it's am I stimulating that immune system speaking in the same language as the cells that break down bone and leading to more bone loss.

    Kevin Ellis (37:01):

    So resolution of those digestive issues is incredibly important. And then if we shift to, if we're talking about the impact of chronic stress and high cortisol on our bones specifically, there are a couple, a couple ways that this can affect our bones. Number one, it can reduce progesterone production and we need progesterone to support healthy bones. The other way is that it actually reduces the ability of the os osteoblasts, the cells that build bone, it reduces their ability to build that bone. And the other thing that we need to be concerned about is high glucocorticoids, these natural steroid hormones, they kill osteocytes, osteocytes are these orchestrators of the bone remodeling process. So we need all of these things to function in a, in a good way. And when we have high stress, elevated cortisol levels or we have cortisol dysregulation, even that can be an issue that comes up.

    Kevin Ellis (37:55):

    So just be aware that if you have stress in your life, and it may not be, I know we always, we talk about the lion always, but you know, the lion is, is probably not gonna be the, the main stressor in your life. The, it's probably gonna be the, the financial conflict, the family challenges, the keeping up with the perfect lives of the Jones is on social media. Those kinds of things can contribute to and drive that stress response. And you just have to be aware of that and you just need to cultivate a healthy practice around dealing with that stress. And I think if you do that, you you'll be in a really good place at least to start. Yeah,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:31):

    For sure. And I love this quote you shared with me before we, we started recording, I have to share with everyone, you don't have to know where each step is placed day one, you just have to know where you want your path to lead. You have certainly given everyone a step for day one when it comes to their bone health journey and let's tell them where it leads. We'll <laugh> we'll have link links in the show notes, but Kevin, tell everyone where they can connect with you online and about this great resource that you have for them to help them continue on their journey. And we'll have the link in the show notes.

    Kevin Ellis (39:07):

    Absolutely. So you can always find [email protected]. We got a lot of free resources, stronger bones programs, all that stuff there. And you can always find me on all the social channels too. At Bone Coach or at Bone Coach Kevin, go to Instagram, go to the podcast. Go go. Any of those places you'll find us there. But the best resource I would suggest your audience starts with is if we could leave this in the show notes we kind of talked about, this is my free Stronger Bones Masterclass, comes with a free bone healthy recipes guide. But this masterclass is gonna take anybody who wants to improve their bones, is concerned about their bone health or just wants to have an active future and you want to take care of that structure that's gonna get you there, sign up for this masterclass. It's gonna walk you through step by step. Everything you need to do, it's gonna just gonna walk you through the process we take. We take our clients through step by step by step. It's gonna help you uncover missing pieces in your plan. It's gonna help you get on the right path for stronger bones. And that's the Stronger Bones Masterclass. We'll leave that in the show notes. So check that out, sign up for that. And that's the best resource to get started. Awesome.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (40:07):

    Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing this really very important information, Kevin. I really appreciate it. Thanks

    Kevin Ellis (40:14):

    So much Dr. Ki,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (40:15):

    And thank you for joining me for another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. I know you are inspired to lift up the hood of your bone car and take a look at your bones and see what's going in there. If you haven't had proper testing, please, please, please go and get it and then take action. This is vital. So I look forward to hearing about your bone health journey on social media. You can reach out to me on Instagram or Facebook and share your stories and your progress and what you're learning and we'll have another wonderful

    Speaker 2 (40:48):

    Episode for you

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (40:49):

    Next week. Until then, peace, love, and hormones y'all.

    Speaker 2 (40:54):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormone and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

    ► Get access to Kevin Ellis's Stronger Bones Masterclass: Discover The 3-Step Blueprint Osteoporosis "Thrivers" Use To Help Build Strong Bones So They Can Stop Fearing Fracture & Lead Active Lives plus Get a Free Recipe Guide! - CLICK HERE.

    ► Are you tired of feeling like you're losing control at midlife? Weight gain, low energy, and a decrease in sex drive are all too common. But it doesn't have to be that way.

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  • Welcome to another inspiring episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast! This week, we dive into the captivating journey of Christine, a remarkable woman who transformed her life from the depths of hormonal poverty and metabolic chaos to a thriving midlife success story.

    Episode HighlightsChristine's Personal Journey: Listen as Christine candidly shares her struggles with hormonal imbalance and metabolic mayhem, painting a vivid picture of her life before finding hope and healing.Turning Points: Discover the pivotal moments that changed the trajectory of Christine’s health journey, leading her from hopelessness to empowerment.Overcoming Obstacles: Gain insight into the strategies Christine employed to combat metabolic mayhem and rise above her challenges.Benefits of Working with The Host: Hear firsthand about the transformative benefits Christine experienced through her work with our host, including practical advice and tailored strategies that made all the difference.Inspiration for Midlife Women: Learn how Christine’s story can inspire you to take control of your hormonal health and find success in midlife.Christine’s Story: From Hopelessness to Triumph

    In this episode, we delve into Christine’s personal account of facing seemingly insurmountable hormonal struggles. Like many women at midlife, she found herself navigating the confusing and often discouraging world of metabolic issues and hormonal imbalances. But Christine's story doesn't end there. Through perseverance and expert guidance, she discovered a path to reclaim her health and vitality.

    Christine shared invaluable practical advice and strategies for women dealing with similar challenges. Whether it's dietary adjustments, lifestyle changes, or understanding the nuances of hormonal balance, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you on your journey.

    Christine provides an insider's view of what it's like to work with our podcast host. She breaks down the process at a granular level, explaining the philosophy behind the approach and why it works when other methods might fail. If you've ever felt overwhelmed by the information overload on Dr. Google, Christine's story will resonate deeply. She highlights how the expert knowledge and personalized care she received made all the difference.

    Christine's journey is a testament to the power of resilience and expert guidance. Her transformation from hopelessness to success is not just a story—it's a beacon of hope for every woman at midlife feeling demoralized by hormonal and metabolic struggles.

    Don't miss out on this inspiring episode! Tune in now to hear Christine's incredible journey and join our Hormone Balance Bliss Challenge today. Together, let's embark on a path to reclaiming our health and vitality.


    Stay tuned and stay inspired, and remember: you don’t have to figure it all out on your own. With the right support and knowledge, you too can achieve hormonal balance and midlife success.

    Happy listening!


    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

    Thank you so much, Dr. Karen. I truly, I cannot thank you enough. You have not only transformed my life, but you have saved my life in so many different ways and given me a life that I want to have.

    Speaker 2 (00:15):

    That's what Christine a had to say about working with me. Stay tuned for more details about her experience.

    Speaker 3 (00:23):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYN, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results, and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kieran Dunton. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Speaker 2 (01:16):

    Hi everybody. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kieran. I'm so glad that you're here because you're gonna get to hear a client, Christine, share her experience of working with me. We've got the Hormone Bliss Challenge launching this week on May 23rd. I only do it live a couple times a year. So you definitely don't wanna miss this, especially if you've thought about working with me and you've been wondering what's it like, what am I gonna get out of it? And really wanna understand my philosophy and how I've gone about helping thousands of women's women get out of midlife metabolic mayhem and hormonal poverty and into hormonal prosperity. Because if you're a woman over 40, most likely, you are experiencing many of these 60 plus symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem to varying degrees. And it's interfering with you living your life the way that you want to, frankly, the way that you deserve to.

    Speaker 2 (02:19):

    You deserve to be healthy, vital, alive at every single age. There's no reason really, that you shouldn't feel as good as at 80 as you did at 20. And if you think that's laughable, then you don't know what I know, and you need to definitely come because I'm gonna teach you how to do that and this program. So Christine is a client who has worked with me, and she can give you the insider's view of what that's like, what benefits she's gotten from it, and help you understand a little bit more about the nuts and boats at a granular level that are involved with the philosophy that I share and why it gets results when other things don't. I know you might be feeling a little demoralized because if you're like most women at midlife, you've been going down the Dr. Google route and trying to figure it out by yourself, which I don't doubt that you could given enough time and energy to try to figure it out, but it might take you the 30 years that I've spent as a board certified OB GYN, completing my fellowship in anti-aging, metabolic and functional medicine, treating thousands of patients to have the knowledge and expertise.

    Speaker 2 (03:32):

    So, hit the easy button button and listen to the episode and you'll find out how you can get on the fast train to where you wanna go with your health and your life. Please help and help me welcome Christine to the show. So how are you doing?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:48):

    I am feeling so much better. My mood is stabilized. I am like, I am not girl. All the time. I am. I have enough energy that I'm actually starting to, I'm working out now in the mornings when I get up, I'm sleeping better at night. It is, yeah, it is <laugh> like it's, it's like I'm getting to a whole new me and I love it. It's a great journey and I cannot thank you enough, honestly.

    Speaker 2 (04:14):

    Oh, my pleasure.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (04:16):

    It's great.

    Speaker 2 (04:16):

    What kinds of problems were you dealing with that made you seek out help outside of mainstream medicine? What kind of health problems?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (04:25):

    I was experiencing a lot of feeling very tired, feeling beyond tired, lethargic, low energy, not feeling like myself, feeling very angry and on edge all the time. My hair was thinning. I was putting on weight, excessive body hair, facial hair, and feeling very frustrated, quite honestly, through mainstream medicine. I went to a, I had listened to one of your podcasts and I thought I had all this great information, and I went to my gynecologist who came recommended that dealt with women in menopause, was her specialty. And I shared all of this information with her, and she sat there and looked at me and she said, well, you're in your fifties and you have a 6-year-old child. You're you, it's not, you're depressed. You need an antidepressant, and I could, I can run your hormones and I can tell you you're low on estrogen and that doesn't mean anything. You need an antidepressant. And I walked out of there, literally sat in my car and cried, and I listened to another one of your podcasts and had this wonderful opportunity to begin working with you. And everything literally started changing my life around for me working with you.

    Speaker 2 (05:35):

    Awesome. Oh, thank you. So what have been the most surprising things that you've learned? I'm sorry that you dealt with that at your doctors. Unfortunately, your experience of basically what I call gaslighting is not uncommon, and some women listening probably have experienced that. What has been the most eyeopening to you in the things that you've learned since you've been working in the program?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (06:01):

    I think so much everything, honestly, that I have been learning and continue to learn from you. It is, you are this fellowship trained gynecologist who has this wealth of medical knowledge behind you, and you also embrace different medicines from around the world and those philosophies, and you bring them all together and you put the science behind them for what used to be for areas that used to be considered, oh, this is different. Or it's not real because it's, it hasn't been vetted by us medical standards and we can't con you confirm it. And now so much of that we're seeing is being confirmed of, of different types of medicines and, and different approaches that have been for so long. And being able to combine those and really looking at your whole self, not just a piece of you. And you look at the whole woman and every aspect from the medical to the mental to the spiritual, and how do we bring that together and use that to be able to build what it is that women need, quite frankly. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> all women. It's not something that should be overlooked. And I think many times it has been overlooked in modern medicine, especially when it comes to women. The focus that you have brought to it and the work that you do and that you bring the science behind it, I think just brings, brings it to a new level for many people.

    Speaker 2 (07:25):

    Yeah. Thank you. And I remember meeting you the first time and you've come a long way. And can you share about what's changed for you?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (07:34):

    Oh my gosh, everything. I am hitting 55 this summer, and I have a 6-year-old by choice. He was a little medical miracle, and I had always been in really good shape and in really active. And after his birth, like I just started noticing like my energy levels going down. My weight was heavier after birth than be when I was pregnant with my son. And just noticing going, wow, what's going on with me? And like, okay, it's menopause and how do I do and what do I do with this? And just feeling myself, just continuing to go down, becoming more lethargic, becoming more on edge with everything. And after having had the opportunity to work with you and learning from you and following, I have energy again. I'm to the point now where I'm up in the mornings and I'm working out and I'm giving myself that time and that space to be able to not feel guilty about carving out time and making myself a priority, which I think a lot of us forget or feel guilty about if we try to make ourselves a priority because we have to be mom.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (08:36):

    We have to be the best at our, our work, and we have to be there for everyone else. And if we take time for ourselves, we feel guilty about it, or that's too selfish. And having learned that, no, it's not selfish, it's a necessity. We have to take care of ourselves and grant ourselves that time. And, and that has truly brought such incredible balance back. My, my children have commented <laugh> about and my 6-year-old mommy, like, I love that you're playing with me more. And, and we're doing more things outside. My daughter's like, yeah, you're not so angry all the time. And she's a teenager, so that says something. Yeah, just saying that says a lot for a 14-year-old to say, wow. And that has just been a huge gift. And even my husband has been very, again, you're back to a more pleasant person than I've seen in a really long time. And we now have time to go out and to do things and to have time together, which is huge. We have not had that in a really long time.

    Speaker 2 (09:34):

    Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. It's lovely to hear you talk about that because one of the biggest areas that suffers for us when our health suffers is our relationships. And I think that as women, we can really almost be in denial about that truth because people, to be honest, they don't wanna be honest with us and they don't wanna hurt our feelings and say, you know what? You're not showing up as the woman I married or <laugh>. I'm a teenage girl and I don't even wanna be my around my own mom. Right? So they don't say anything and we think that nobody really notices, but I promise you, isn't it like the elephant in the room and then when you get better, everyone says, oh my gosh, you're you're doing so much better. I love this. And so I like that you highlighted that because I think that, I don't know, it was true for me. And it sounds like it was for you too, that I was in total denial about how I wasn't showing up in my relationships. Like I really would have liked to, and nobody, people were too polite in my life to call me out on it. I wasn't showing up as the best doctor that I could have been when I, my health was tank. I wasn't showing up as the best anything. Don't you think that's true?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (10:46):

    A hundred percent agreed. And, and what's really bad is my husband did call me out on it a few times and I lashed out at him. I'm like, what are you talking about? Just, I have all this work and the long hours at work and I, we have two children and we're doing all these things and I had every excuse under the sun as to why it wasn't me per se, because I couldn't, or I wasn't willing at that point to really just stop and take a breath and say, Hey, what's going on with you? Because that meant that if I had to deal with me and take time for myself, then I, in my mind at that point, then I couldn't be there and do what I needed to do for everyone else. And that was being selfish until I met you. <Laugh>. <laugh>

    Speaker 2 (11:28):


    Speaker 2 (11:29):

    Yeah. And you mentioned earlier about taking time for yourself. So doing this type of work, it is a time commitment. It's a financial commitment. And I find that's a, a lot of, there are a few reasons why women don't do this, because clearly we're not getting the answers we need at our mainstream doctor's offices. I don't think anyone would argue about that. But then the next is, oh, it's gonna gonna take too much time. Oh, it's gonna take too much money. And then there's the, I don't trust myself to do it. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So those are kind of the things that keep women stuck. And I made a pact with the universe when I discovered this. I said, I'm gonna use it on myself and then if it works, I'm gonna spend the rest of my life helping other women with this information. And it's not just menopause. 2 million of us go into menopause each year. In the United States alone, there are 50 million of us in menopause, but it's the perimenopause, it's the PCOS, it's all the hormone things. We've had women in our programs in their twenties. So what really tipped your hand that you said, this is the thing for me to get where I wanna be. I'm willing to invest the time, willing to invest the money, and I trust myself and I deserve it. What made you make all those decisions?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (12:45):

    Honestly, when I left the gynecologist's office and I saw it in my car and I felt so deflated because I had listened to a series of your podcasts and I went in armed with all this information, I went, this is it. I've got it. And this is this gynecologist who she specializes with women in menopause or perimenopause. I'm like, yes, this is awesome. And being told I was depressing, made an antidepressant, and here's a script <laugh>, I was like, thank you. No, thank you. I said, something has to change because this is not me. I don't want to live like this any longer and I have to figure some things out. Having the support of my husband was huge and tremendous. It was, yeah, you, you need to, he was a hundred percent, yes, you need to figure it out and do what you need to do.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (13:32):

    And in terms of investing in myself, I didn't at first see it as investing in myself. I saw it a need to fix myself, for myself to be there for others. And that's where I was when I started with you, Dr. Karen. And you know, in terms of the investment and the money, when you look at the numbers and you crunch it and you crunch the numbers, what you are investing in yourself over the course of a year is less than what we do so much with so many other things going out for dinner. And I'm not saying we shouldn't do those things. We absolutely should. But when you look at what we spend on going out for dinner, going to get a massage, going to the gym, whatever other things we do, when we, you break that cost down, it is a minimal investment.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (14:18):

    And honestly, for what you, what the services that you offer for being able to make it affordable, if you break it out over what it costs over the cost of a year, mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And then with the gains and learning about that, it's, you are worth the investment in yourself. You are worth that time and the balance and being able to find and, and discover, it's not even about rediscovering yourself. It's about discovering who you are at this point in time and where you want to go with yourself and that work, the work that you do and that you, the journey you help so many women on is you honestly taking four or five different disciplines and bringing them into one, if not more than, and you're giving all of this to us to be able to do. And when you break that down over the cost of a year or cost of a lifetime, it's that <laugh>, the financial piece is not, it is not this astronomical amount that is out of reach for women. It really isn't.

    Speaker 2 (15:23):

    Yeah. And I'm so excited. So you talk about, to take you where you wanna go, so what do you envision for your future? You've got the 6-year-old, the 14-year-old. What do you envision?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (15:36):

    Honestly, I am, that is where I'm working through right now. Right? I had a whole vision for myself back in my forties. I made a deal with myself that I was gonna go back and, and work on my doctorate. And I was like, oh, I'm never getting pregnant. It's not help happening. Working with modern medicine. I was like, it's just not happening. So I went back and I was like, okay. I got accepted into a doctoral program and then I found out I was pregnant and I was like, oh, did it all, did both. And started a new job. And in the process of that and said, okay, my goal was I was going to retire at 56 and be able just to enjoy. And now I have a 6-year-old and a 14-year-old. So it's a little different. So for me right now, it's really figuring out I want to do next how I want to evolve everything I've done and worked for and, and what is that next piece?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (16:22):

    Not sure yet. And I'm exploring a lot of different avenues and just doing a lot of learning in some different ways and areas to see what it is that I want to continue to do because I'm not ready anymore. Two years ago or a year ago, I was like, oh my gosh, how am I gonna do this? I just wanna be able to retire and just sleep in the mornings and not do anything. And now I have this energy and I'm going, yes. Like what was I thinking? <Laugh>, what is the next step? What do I want to do? And how do I do that? And that's really what I'm focusing on right now.

    Speaker 2 (16:55):

    Yeah. And I love to hear you say this because I remember where you were and if I had said that to you a while ago, you would've just probably gotten very upset. What do you mean <laugh>? <Laugh>, when our health suffers, the, the, the biggest question, and the Bri biggest problem we have is like, how can I fix myself? How can I survive this? We're not, we let go of our dreams. And I know there's somebody listening right now who's identifying nodding her head saying, oh yeah, I remember I used to have dreams, but I don't even have them anymore. Because today my dream is like, how am I gonna make it through the day without two double espressos and then sleep the whole night? And how am I gonna keep my marriage alive when I don't ever wanna have sex? And how am I going to, you fill in the blank. And I love that the questions have changed for you and they've become expansive instead of contracting, they're expansive. Like, oh, and you have, now I see this and here the energy and vitality to basically do whatever you want, which is awesome.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (18:01):

    Thank you for that. And it's honestly, I would not be here right now if it weren't for you. Oh,

    Speaker 2 (18:06):

    That is so sweet.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (18:08):

    It's the truth. It's the truth. There are so many in all fields that don't truly hear what is being said, let alone listen, but truly hear and have the know and the level of expertise that you do in so many different areas. And the fact that you're also willing to continue on a growth journey professionally, that you're, that you continue to learn and you want to grow. That is incredible. And not many people, quite frankly, in the medical field at this point in their careers, are willing to do that. And that is a huge testament to you.

    Speaker 2 (18:47):

    Oh, thank you. Yeah. That I do have this lifelong learner in me that's always evolving. And I started my woman shaman training. I'd love to tell you about that. I'm wondering what you would share with a woman who's listening who maybe she's thought about working with me. Believe it or not, there are women, they see me and they hear and they're like, oh my gosh, I need what you have. But there are all these buts that get in the way. Yeah. One woman is coming to my mind who I've actually known personally for, gosh, probably 10 years. And she struggled with her weight and her energy and her health and all these things. And it's like she comes around and she's like, okay, I can't take it anymore. This is the last straw of my health. I'm gonna do the thing. And then she always, her butt gets so big, she doesn't do anything.

    Speaker 2 (19:35):

    And I'm not talking about her BUT, but her butt, her excuses. And I think the last time I talked with her, she now has fatty liver and pre-diabetes and all kinds of things. And so my job is to help people to reverse these things. And I know what path she's headed down because there is this point of no return. You get down with chronic disease where once you start having anatomic problems, then it becomes very hard to reverse. So anyway, all that to say, what do you say to that woman whose health is really not serving her in being able to live as who she authentically is in this life and express herself? Who's toying with, oh, I know Dr. Kirin can help me, but <laugh> dealing with her buts. And what would you say to her?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (20:24):

    I would say there are always a million reasons why not to do something. And you only need the one reason, and that is yourself. And to give yourself the space and grace to take that risk. Because it is very scary to embark on a journey that can change you and help transform you and to help you become the person you want to be. And it's very easy to stay in a path or on a path that is very comfortable because you know where that's headed and you don't wanna head there, but you think that this is it. And I would just say to take that risk on yourself and and to take that chance and just to engage once with you and not look at a whole program or what the work is that I have to do or should do, just walk in and work with you and then go from there for the next part piece and one step at a time and not look at the overwhelming, this is where I wanna be and how am I gonna do that? That's so much work and it's so difficult. And it all these reasons and all those buts, why not? The one reason why is for you yourself

    Speaker 2 (21:30):

    Because you deserve it. We all do. Really, as you're talking, I'm thinking it's like if you go into first grade and you start obsessing about, oh my gosh, I've gotta make it through eighth grade, then, then I've gotta go through nine through 12 in high school and then I gotta go to college. And you just go, forget it. It's too long. It's too hard. I can't do, right. It's, we wouldn't do that. So you just look at the next step. And we've got the Hormone bliss challenge launching I think this week. And that gives people a real taste of seven days of working with me live one-on-one to see what it's like, and mostly have the ahas that a lot of people don't get. Because I think that, and I'm just wondering for you, is this true A lot of women, although you get that your mainstream HMO $30 copay doctor isn't giving you the whole truth and they're just giving you pill for every ill or a surgery for every symptom.

    Speaker 2 (22:21):

    Okay, we get it. We're not served there. But then there's so much online and social media, blogs, podcasts, and we're inundated with information. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. And if you're struggling, if you're a woman at midlife, you're probably struggling with some aspect of your health. It's just a fact. You're consuming all this information so you think you know the answers, but you don't even realize what you dunno. And so I'm just wondering, 'cause it sounds like it's, you were listening to podcasts and doing all these things that what we're really, you might have already answered this, it sounds like that the ahas were that you need to do all the things. You can't just do one thing. But I don't wanna put words in your mouth. What were the real ahas once you got down to the granular level, nitty gritty, okay, these are the steps you need to take. What were the ahas for you? What was most surprising? I

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (23:14):

    Think the aha. There were so many along the there are, and I can't say there were, there are so many along this journey for me, the first, excuse me, the first aha was, again, as I said before, it is you have these expertises in so many different, and I'm saying four or five, and I know it's way more than that. And I'm, I apologize for underestimating that when you are out there and you are listening to different podcasts and you are researching and you are trying to bring all these pieces together, it was from the first podcast <inaudible>. I literally, I had stumbled upon it. It wasn't something I was actively looking for. I was like, oh, let me just give this a try and hearing your story. And I'm sitting there going, yes, that's me. Yes, that's me. And I'm literally checking off almost every single box that you were talking about, and you were so open and honest about your experiences and your journeys.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (24:09):

    That immediately caught me. And I was like, okay, here is a doctor who is willing to put herself out there. Let me see what is the next piece. And then listening to the next part of your podcast and, and you talk about everything. And I'm going, okay, we've heard so many and we've learned, and I grew up with parents who immigrated to this country. So different alternative medicines were this thing for us growing up. And it was like, oh, there were those freaky kids. You know, using these herbal type things, what's up with you? You know, so you hide all those things and you kind of push them to the side. And here you are talking about all these different approaches in, in different combinations. And that was like, that was my first aha. Like, oh my goodness, I can unpack some of this.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (24:54):

    And here is someone who is an expert in all these different areas. And then it just continued to grow from there. You treat the whole woman. It is not, piece of it is the whole woman. And again, and with our medicine that is such a compartmentalized, we have specialists, everything or people who generalize, but no one who's an expert in. So all the different parts, to be able to look at us as a whole woman and knowing how everything is connected. And again, for me that aha, oh yeah, remember this. And wow, here is someone who can only is not only speaking to that, but is teaching me and helping me understand how all these different parts are connected and how that will help me become the person I want to evolve into in a healthy manner without taking shortcuts, without looking for a fast fix, without, why isn't this working? And being able to do it in a positive manner that will help me continue to build and grow a healthy version of myself that I want to become

    Speaker 2 (26:03):

    So beautifully said. I guess I was blessed to be in a female body. So I have walked the walk of all of my clients. 'cause I've been in this body for many years, and then really blessed to have had the health challenges that I've had because they've exemplified that midlife metabolic mayhem that I help women with. So I uniquely, I'm intimate with the pain of it and also the pathway out because as a board certified ob, GYN, it wasn't, those tools weren't that, wasn't it? <Laugh>. And so I have sought out tools for to heal myself and then use them with other women and they actually do work. You just gotta pick 'em up and use them. Right? <laugh>, yes, <laugh>. Absolutely. Right. Well, thank you so much Christine, for sharing your experience. It's so great to connect with you. It's been wonderful working with you and with our health. There's always more to unfold and improve. It's a never ending journey. And I look forward to the future improvements you're gonna make, grateful for the ones you've already made and what you're gonna do, how you're gonna spend that extra energy and vitality and joy that you're creating. Thank

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (27:17):

    You so much, Dr. Kieran. I truly, I cannot thank you enough. You have not only transformed my life, but you have saved my life in so many different ways and given me a life that I want to have. Thank you. Thank you. Oh,

    Speaker 2 (27:34):

    So grateful to have been a part of your life and your journey. Christine. Thank you. You're

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (27:38):

    Stuck with me. I'm not going anywhere. <Laugh>

    Speaker 2 (27:40):

    <Laugh>. I know. I feel the same way. So thank you so much. Thanks for doing this. I so much appreciate it and I'll talk to you soon.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (27:50):

    All right. My pleasure. Okay, have a great night. Thanks,

    Speaker 2 (27:52):

    You too. Bye. Thank you so much for joining me and Christine today and for listening to her experience, and hopefully you've gotten insight into what's possible for your health and your life going forward when you decide to say yes to yourself. We'll have the link in the show notes to the Hormone List Challenge if you would like to join us starting May 23rd to find out how we can help you transform your health and your life to where you want it to be, how you can get out of midlife metabolic mayhem caused by hormonal poverty and into hormonal prosperity. Look forward to seeing you live in the challenge starting on Thursday, if that can serve you well. And until next week, we'll be back with another episode. Peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

    Speaker 3 (28:42):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormone and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

    ► Are you tired of feeling like you're losing control at midlife? Weight gain, low energy, and a decrease in sex drive are all too common. But it doesn't have to be that way.

    With our Hormone Balance Bliss Challenge, you can reclaim your youth and feel as amazing as you did in college. Our proven system is designed specifically for women at midlife who want to balance their hormones, reset their metabolism, and start seeing real results.

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  • 🌟 Lori's Leap from Hormonal Poverty to Prosperity 🌟

    Welcome to the latest episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, where we illuminate the path from struggle to vitality for women at midlife and beyond. Today, we bring you the truly inspirational story of Lori, a midlife warrior who turned her years of metabolic mayhem and hormonal havoc into a narrative of hope, health, and hormone harmony.

    The Struggle Is Real

    Lori’s saga began like that of many women stepping into midlife. Struggling with symptoms of Midlife Metabolic Mayhem, her days were colored with exhaustion, imbalance, and a silent cry for relief. Despite Lori’s dogged determination to find a solution—traversing through the maze of advice, medications, and regimens—the elusive answer to her woes seemed just out of reach.

    The Turning of the Tide

    The game-changer for Lori was her serendipitous encounter with the Hormone Balance Bliss Challenge. Like many, she approached it with a mix of skepticism and desperation. Yet, what unfolded over the course of the challenge was nothing short of miraculous.

    Bloom into Balance

    Not only did Lori achieve that long-sought hormonal equilibrium, but her entire well-being blossomed. Energy returned, clarity replaced confusion, and a renewed zest for life emerged. It’s not just a story of hormonal balance; it’s about rediscovering the fullness of life at midlife.

    Key Takeaways and Inspirational NuggetsPersistence Pays Off: Lori’s testament to never giving up, even when the night seems darkest, speaks volumes. Your answer might just be around the corner.The Power of Personalized Solutions: Lori’s experience underscores the value of tailored approaches in navigating midlife transitions.Hormone Balance Bliss Challenge: This beacon of hope stands as a testament to the power of targeted, supportive strategies in reclaiming one’s health.An Invitation to Share and Support

    Inspired by Lori’s story? You’re not alone. We invite you to share your stories, struggles, and successes. Because when one woman blooms, she lights a path for all. Whether you’re deep in the throes of your own hormonal poverty or have found your version of prosperity, your story holds power.

    Embark on Your Journey

    Midlife mayhem doesn’t define you. If Lori’s story has ignited a spark within you, perhaps it’s time to explore what the Hormone Balance Bliss Challenge can do for you.

    Remember, it’s not just about surviving; it’s about thriving. And you don’t have to do it alone. Visit us for more information on how you can start your personalized path towards hormone prosperity.

    Thank you for tuning in to The Hormone Prescription Podcast. Until next time, may you find your balance, your bliss, and your unique prescription to hormone prosperity.

    To connect, learn, or find support, reach out. Your story is just beginning.

    Dr. Kyrin (00:00):

    Lori says about the hormone bliss challenge. I'm just so thankful it has changed my life. Stay tuned to hear a little bit about her story and her journey with the Hormone Bliss Challenge, which is coming up starting May 23rd.

    Dr. Kyrin (00:15):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Dr. Kyrin (01:09):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me today as we talk with one of my clients, Lori, who is a woman at Midlife who was really struggling with her health. Maybe you can relate those 60 plus symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem. She had been just so many different providers. I tried so many different programs and treatments and therapies. She says shares in the episode about the symptoms that were just accumulating, kind of like ants and really had gotten to a very hopeless and helpless place trying to search for answers online 'cause her doctors weren't helping her and trying these different. So-Called one-Shot Wonders She'll Share. You'll get to hear all the details of her journey and how she finally found success when she joined our Hormone Bliss challenge, which is launching again on May 23rd.

    Dr. Kyrin (02:06):

    I only do it live a couple times a year, so you're definitely gonna wanna join us if Lori's experience speaks to you. If you're a woman at midlife who really feels lost and hopeless to correct your weight, your energy <laugh>, your sex drive, your hair loss, your male pattern, hair growth, right, getting a mustache, your memory problems, your concentration problems, your mood problems, irritability, depression, anxiety, the list of symptoms that women start experiencing, usually by the time they hit 40, definitely by the time they hit 50, and sometimes even in their thirties and twenties, is long. The symptoms of midlife, metabolic mayhem is what I call it. And it's not just about your sex hormones. You might be surprised to learn that it's about so much more and we touch on more about what it's about in this episode. So I hope you'll enjoy listening to Lori's story because this could be your story going from feeling lost and confused and hopeless to being successful and hopeful and knowing that you too have received all the tools that you need to get out of midlife metabolic mayhem and to experience the vitality and joy that you deserve.

    Dr. Kyrin (03:28):

    So without further ado, let's welcome Lori to the show. And Lori, start by telling us a little bit about what you were struggling with that brought you to the challenge.

    Lori (03:41):

    I have always, it feels like always had symptoms from fatigue. I didn't have the weight gain until recently, late fifties before I started the weight gain. But I've had the insomnia at times. I've had the fatigue during the day. Lots of times I would drive an hour and I'd have to pull over and take a nap, just fatigue. But thinking a lot of times that it was being a mom working full time, just being busy all the time. And then you get to the stage where, okay, now I'm retired, now my kids are gone and I'm still having those symptoms. And then you blame it on allergies. But I had some issues that I had to go to my gynecologist and have checkups every sometimes six months. And I love her. She's fantastic. But she even admits I don't know anything about hormones. And I knew that was part of the key.

    Lori (04:45):

    I thought it was the whole key because it seems like friends of mine who have, once you have one symptom, like you don't just have one, you have them all <laugh>. And so all of my, the ones that have migraines, we also have this and we also have that and like, what is it? And so I had tried many things. I've researched many things, avid reader, always trying new things. But I think until I participated in the hormone challenge and you explained the why behind a lot of things, I thought I knew the why, but really digging in and getting the why and you have such a fabulous way of not overwhelming and making it so technical that that we don't understand and it just goes over our head. You give analogies and make it in a way that even I can understand that has no science background.

    Lori (05:40):

    Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And those things have been sticking with me. And I think the other big part was I am more of a type A just do it, cross it off your list, done that and understanding all of the energetics about it, the why, the connecting, the how does our experiences in life, either our stress, our past stress, our current stress, how we handle things that how of, how all of that affects our health as well. And of course there's a connection. You always hear stress causes, but those were things for people that are older. And then now you're older <laugh> and you're like, okay, this is gonna be me, this is me. And the symptoms just keep, seem to keep adding. And I so appreciate understanding that why and working with it. And I think one of the biggest things too is you can change.

    Lori (06:41):

    I think a lot of it felt like, well that stress that's external, there's nothing I can do about it, but I can. And you've given me so many ways to change and deal with it and to feel empowered that I can, it's not about taking a pill. It is about lifestyle changes and how impactful those are, as well as maybe supplements and hormones and things that will help along the way. But deep breathing, some of the evening relaxation audios, those have helped so much. And I've, I'm still a list person and I'm probably always gonna be a list person, but I don't let the list drive me like it used to. I used to almost be in a panic until I could start working on my to-do list. And I'm really trying to enjoy life more and I know that it's helping my health as well. So I am. That's awesome. I am so thankful that I started this journey with you and I'm trying to, I think I had done a summit years ago with you, and so I just really connected with you and your way of teaching and sharing and empowering. And so I've always followed you and all of a sudden one day I saw the Hormone Bliss Challenge and I said, I have got to do that. So I'm just so thankful that I have, it's changed my life.

    Dr. Kyrin (08:12):

    Yeah. I'm so thankful that you have two because I think a lot of women you mentioned earlier, it's not just one symptom, it's many. And I always say they're like ants. If you see one an at a picnic, there's never just one <laugh>. There's a hundred. And it's like those symptoms, 60 plus symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem, like I call it that women over 40, sometimes even younger, can start experiencing. And I find I come across so many women who I really appreciate you coming on the podcast to talk about this because so many women are online looking for answers and there's so much that they don't understand that they don't even know. They don't know. And then it makes hard for people to recognize a solution that works when it drops right in front of them and they're likely to poo poo it. Because fortunately, or unfortunately, well I'll say unfortunately, doctors, OBGYNs, internist, family practice docs, brilliant, dedicated, caring, loving people, however they're put through training that into corporate medicine that basically takes them through training on a pill for every ill a surgery for every symptom.

    Dr. Kyrin (09:28):

    And it's not really about healing the cause of these problems. That's what most of us are getting at our doctor's offices, including me when I went through my forties. And that means there are a lot of people online teaching about women's hormones. Unfortunately, a lot of these people actually don't have the depth and breadth of experience to give a comprehensive solution. So there are a lot of people who say, oh, essential oils, that's the solution for your midlife hormone problems. There are a lot of people who say, oh, you just need this one supplement and this is gonna fix it for you. Oh, you just need to follow this one diet. And are those tools useful? Yes. However, I think that when women don't know even what they don't know and they don't know what they're looking for and they see someone says, I have the answer, they oftentimes fall in the trap that a lot of us fall into is trying that solution and then it, it doesn't work.

    Dr. Kyrin (10:29):

    And they conclude there is no answer. Right. And that's why I've done the summits that I've done and I think the last one we did, we had a hundred experts on the Stop the Menopause Men Summit, most of whom are board certified medical doctors or other credentialed healthcare practitioners who have the comprehensive information and solution. And that's really what I offer. I've been accused of, Karen, you, you tell people they have to do all the things. And I say, yes, if you wanna feel great in your fifties, sixties, eighties and be as healthy as you can, increase your vitality span, your longevity, your libido, your weight, all those things you really do need to do all the things. If you leave any one thing out, you're never gonna achieve what's possible for you. And I know this is a long commentary on what you said, but you really inspired me. So I'm so grateful to you to come and talk about your experience because I think that women can, sometimes they're inundated with information in their social media and email about balance your hormones this way. And they don't recognize an authentic solution that works when it comes across their path. And so I appreciate you coming and sharing your experience. 'cause You had tried a lot of different things, hadn't you? Over many years. Yes,

    Lori (11:48):

    A lot. And I think that was specifically one thing I remember you saying is that it rarely is this comprehensive. I still get probably five emails a day on this solution, that solution, and they sound good. And you try and then like you said, it doesn't work or maybe it doesn't work right away. And so then I stop because I don't have that follow through with somebody that can help me say, Nope, you just need a little more time. Or this is another thing, this is another piece to the puzzle. I think I thought too that it was a couple of puzzle pieces and really it's a multitude of puzzle pieces and that's the good thing. And the bad thing, <laugh>, the bad thing is it can start to feel overwhelming sometimes, but that it is important. It isn't gonna be that one or two things that fixes you.

    Lori (12:43):

    Especially like you said, things that have built up for 30 years. Like it's not just gonna course correct immediately that it takes a while to turn the ship around. And I just so appreciate that expertise that you have in so many areas across the whole body, the whole mind, the whole spiritual aspect because it is all of that. And I have never found any wedding over the past 30, 40 years that can be that conduit together, that knows that can share all of it and guide me in all of the pieces instead of like this piecemeal stuff. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> that I've forever. So I'm just, yeah, I'm just so thankful.

    Dr. Kyrin (13:24):

    Yeah, we learned through our pain, right? And so it's my weight struggles, my health struggles, my spiritual struggles, all the things that I've had to learn in my path, most of which I learned was not in medical school or even in my residency. Sure, that was the nuts and bolts of it. But working with thousands of women over the past 30 years and my own health, I always say that people shouldn't listen to me because I'm a board certified MD or in fellowship trained in anti-aging, metabolic and functional medicine. But why you really shouldn't listen to me is because I've been where you have been. And I reversed all those problems and navigate, continue to navigate my health journey in positive ways. What are some of the most surprising things that you learned in the challenge that you just would've never not even known, that you didn't know or never guessed would be a part of reversing midlife, metabolic mayhem, preventing disease, increasing longevity? What are the surprising things?

    Lori (14:24):

    I think one of the biggest things, one I've already mentioned that it is way more than a few pieces. Like it's so complex, it's more complex than I ever imagined, and yet I knew it wasn't easy. So that's been a big piece. The other piece, I always knew eating was important. I thought I was a good eater. I don't snack, I don't eat like candy and a lot of junk food. But really the difference that being careful with foods particularly that cause inflammation. And I didn't understand the inflammation part and how that damages cells, which just sets off this chain reaction of pieces. And it was, even as I got into it was a little harder for me to accept, again, thinking that I ate pretty healthy. But that has really made such a huge difference in how I feel mental health as well as health.

    Lori (15:24):

    And that's probably one of the biggest pieces. And then I think just how I get in my own way of, even though I have wanted to be healthy for a very long time, like where have I put the roadblocks in? Where have I refused to make changes? And just having that support. It's great for somebody to tell you, oh, this is bad for you, don't eat this. But I think having that support along the way is what's really sort of proven to myself, how valuable that piece is. And we don't get that with mainstream medicine. You go to appointment and then like, do we need a follow up? And even if you have a follow up, they're not talking about these important pieces, it's just what's the next test? What's, how's the pill affecting you and how important those other pieces are. The pills aren't even going to work very well if you still, if it's just covering up the surface and you don't get covering up the symptom and not really getting down at the root cause of what is causing this. Yes.

    Dr. Kyrin (16:25):

    But something you said made me think this idea that there's one right diet for everyone, it just popped in my head. It's like saying that there's one right kind of music that we should all listen to. We should all listen to acid rock music. That's the right kind of, well, anyone would say that's insane. People have different preferences. Well, just like you emotionally and mentally have different preferences. Your body has different preferences and needs and so diet needs to be very customized. And I think that a lot of people are surprised to find out that it's not only about calories when it comes to diet. We talk about that in the challenge. There are other issues related to the foods you eat that most people are not aware of. And how was it doing the challenge with seven days on Zoom with other women, A lot of women are very hesitant to talk about their health in a public format like that.

    Dr. Kyrin (17:20):

    And it's funny, when I first started doing group programs in my office, gosh, over 10 years ago, what I realized is in doing this work, women need support, but not just support from me. They need support from each other. And so that's why I started doing groups in my office and then I said, well, I'm not gonna be able to reach all the women who need this help in my office. So I started offering online programs in groups and invariably women are very hesitant to do something online, to do something in a group. Now with the pandemic, I think that's changed. But how was that for you? Were you hesitant to do that? And what was your experience like?

    Lori (17:54):

    I'm pretty open and I'm pretty open about my symptoms and sharing with people. And because I, I'm amazed at how people can, I had that I feel that way or I tried this and I've always known how helpful that is to share your story with people because I learned so much. So I wasn't quite, I do a lot of work on Zoom for work too, so I wasn't initially worried about that. But then when you do start talking about some of these things, you're, hmm, I do. I really wanna share that to a group. But the group was, so everybody's going through the same thing and it was beautiful to hear some, someone would share something and I would be like, I didn't even know I had that symptom, or I had never thought of that being connected to all of this. Because that's another thing that I learned.

    Lori (18:46):

    It's like you can have the most remote little symptom and be like, yep, that is because da da da. And it's all connected in like those ants. It's not just a thousand ants around. They're all from the same colony and they all feed off of each other. So I learned so much from other people and you do get to the point where you're just like, if I wanna be better, I just need to be open and I need to be able to share. So when you think about all the programs that really help people, like whether it's Alcoholics Anonymous or whatever, you need that follow up. You need that support. You need to be with other people that are going through the same things. So I just found that I was able to make better connections because I was working with other people.

    Dr. Kyrin (19:30):

    Yeah, I find that the power of the group, and it's been documented in many white papers and studies over the past decade. I even had a gentleman on my podcast who really does a lot of work with this around the power of the group in increasing healthcare outcomes. And so a lot of programs are using group models now for improvement for diabetes outcomes and all kinds of chronic health problems. So it's not just with me, but I find a lot of people haven't been exposed to it yet. So it can seem a little daunting. And it's funny though, in the courses we've created over the past few years, we, I find that's one of people's favorite aspects of the program is the group. And people have literally found their BFF in my programs, which is really nice and special. So the challenge, I think it sounds like it was pretty eye-opening for you about a lot of things and then you chose to go on and start working with me in my other programs. What really tipped your mind and to making the decision to commit to yourself in that way?

    Lori (20:38):

    A couple of things. One was the challenge. After the seven days, I was like, oh my gosh, I can't do anything for seven days and make this huge commitment for seven days. And, and then what I did, I found that was the thing I was looking most forward to every day. And I learned so much in seven days that I was like, I can't stop for one thing. I, there's so much more I need to learn. It's that whole, are you consciously incompetent? And I really felt like I was at the point that I needed some guidance specific to me because where I live in rural Iowa, there, there aren't not people like you that I can like just go pick up with. There's just no support like that. And so I felt that, that I needed, that. I had just been recently diagnosed with testing positive for autoimmune disease.

    Lori (21:32):

    Didn't know what that really meant. Didn't really want to go to the medical field on that 'cause they'll just give you a pill. And I knew that wasn't the answer. I didn't realize it was all related to the hormones and the gut. And that was a surprise for me. And when I found that out, I was like, I have to do this. I am going down the fork in the road is to the left. That's not a good place and I need to go to the right and I don't have that kind of expertise here. And I knew you did. And so you've gotta go with the sure thing. I've spent 30 years trying this and trying that and going here and one thing here. And I just needed to do that. And another thing that you've shared is that we wanna just go to the doctor, get surgery, get a pill, go home.

    Lori (22:19):

    And I realized that I really had bought into that too. And that not only do I not have, even if it was true, I don't have that option around here, but we do deserve to be healthy. And I have a new grand baby, my first, and I wanna be healthy. I wanna get on the ground and play with her for years. I don't wanna be where I can't take care of her or play with her. And that really was the tipping point for me is I have done for a lot of people, done a lot of work over the years and now it's, I really need to take care of myself and so that I can be there for my family and not just even physically be there, but to be my full self there to be a happy self and not just a person that's in pain and suffering. Yeah. And that it is gonna take time. It is going to take time out of our day. It's gonna take some money, but why have those things if it's not in a healthy, happy way?

    Dr. Kyrin (23:24):

    Yes. And I'm just thinking as you're talking, remember you sharing and the program and the challenge, and I remember all the women's shares and we have the, the daily worksheets that people submit, which I love reading because I really get to see what people women are struggling with. And it breaks my heart because when I read it, it I see, I know how unnecessary the health suffering is and I know the severity of suffering that it causes. And then something that I ask women to reflect on is if your health challenges continue, all those little ants that are creeping up every day, where are you? What's your life gonna look like in another year, five years, 10 years? What dreams are you going to have to give up on? And so I'm just wondering, if you were still out there looking for answers and trying one-shot solutions that don't work, what would you be afraid are the dreams you would basically have to give up on?

    Lori (24:23):

    I think for me, I have a lot of like aches and pains, muscle. And so just being is sometimes difficult and painful and you just, all you can do is focus on the pain and I don't wanna be that way. A, you don't wanna be in pain and B, it just ruins everything. And so even, you know, the times I'm with my granddaughter and the times I'm with my family, that is everything to me is just like, it's never completely happy because you're just in all this pain. That was the biggest thing that I wanted to get past is I wanted to just really enjoy my retirement. I've worked hard to get here. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and I wanted it and not suffer through it.

    Dr. Kyrin (25:06):

    Right. And yeah, you have the grand baby and your husband. I, I, he is, I love working with women because you teach a woman about her health and then she teaches everyone she loves and that's in her circle. And everybody's health improves. Thank you so much, Laurie, for coming and just sharing your experience. I think it's really valuable for other women to hear women like you who have gone through this experience, sharing your experience so that they can judge, is this something that could help me? And they can see, wow, is she suffering, like I'm suffering? And what benefit has she gotten? And help them make a decision about if the hormone was challenge could be something that could be helpful for them. Any last words you'd like to share with any woman who's considering going to the challenge? Not quite sure, and that's on the fence. What would you tell her?

    Lori (26:05):

    Well, I think the main thing for me is I've spent a lot of time researching, a lot of time going to doctors, a lot of money on a variety of, whether it's supplements or appointments or tests, and then it always goes away. And you, I never really saw huge benefits and I already see huge benefits in this short amount of time and it will stay with me forever because you teach us how to take care of ourselves. It's not, it's something that I will take with me forever, even though I still have a lot to learn and I am just so thankful. And for someone who has tried and tried to find answers, this finally is an answer and I just can't thank you enough. And I would tell anyone, please do it. If you have any of these symptoms and you want to get better, it is the answer that I've been looking for. And also, I had a doctor appointment this morning and I've lost seven pounds, so, woo. Yes. And I only wanted to lose about 10 or 12, so I'm pretty close to being there, so I'm super excited about that too.

    Dr. Kyrin (27:20):

    That's amazing. I am so grateful to have the opportunity to work with you and I so appreciate you sharing your experience on the show. I know there are women out there you're helping right now who are feeling hopeless and lost and don't know where to turn, and they've made so many bad mistakes and wasted so much time and so much money that they're afraid of making another one. And they're just paralyzed with fear, honestly. And so I know you've helped some women today get unstuck and take action on their own behalf. Thank you so much, Lori.

    Lori (27:56):

    Thank you. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye-Bye.

    Dr. Kyrin (28:00):

    And thanks for joining us for another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Hopefully you've gotten some hope here today. Hopefully you've gotten some answers and your understanding that you really need to address all the things. And then I'm gonna teach you about all the things you need to do during the Hormone Blist challenge that starts live on May 23rd. Seven simple days where we go live on Zoom. You'll have one-on-one interaction with me and other women struggling with the same things. And you'll learn the exact steps that I took to get out of midlife metabolic mayhem and to stay out of it for over a decade now and the exact steps that I've taken thousands of other women through. So if that could be of service to you, please use the link in the show notes to find out more and to join us. I look forward to seeing you there. Until next week, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

    Dr. Kyrin (28:56):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormone and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

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  • In this enlightening and empowering episode, we're joined by the inspirational Michelle Saudan, a beacon of light in the world of healing arts and the founder of Amanzi Wellbeing. Michelle’s dedication to transforming lives through trauma-informed approaches, coupled with her mastery in sound healing, breathwork, movement, bodywork, and meditation, brings us a conversation that's both healing and revolutionary.

    Episode Highlights:

    Michelle opens her heart about her personal and professional voyage into the realms of healing arts. With her story, she illuminates the path for those of us seeking a deeper understanding of our holistic health.The spotlight of our discussion shines brightly on the topic of stored trauma—how it's often the unseen force disrupting women's health, especially during the pivotal stage of midlife. From hormonal imbalances to a spectrum of other health concerns, Michelle sheds light on the shadows cast by unaddressed trauma.Have you heard of trauma-informed approaches but find yourself mystified by what they entail? Michelle demystifies this term, explaining how such strategies foster a safe environment for healing and liberation from the chains of past hurts.Seeking practical wisdom? This episode is laden with tangible tips and strategies. Discover how integrating sound healing, purposeful breathwork, mindful movement, and meditation into your daily life can act as pillars supporting your health and healing voyage.We wrap up our conversation with a surge of hope and a call to empowerment. Michelle reminds us that it's within our power to nurture our health, rewrite our stories, and step into a life marked by balance and vitality.

    About Michelle Saudan:

    Michelle Saudan embodies the essence of holistic healing. Through her groundbreaking work with Amanzi Wellbeing, she has dedicated over a decade to enriching the lives of individuals, especially women navigating the complexities of midlife. Her approach is one that intertwines the physical, mental, and spiritual dimensions, offering a roadmap to those eager to heal from trauma and lead a life filled with joy and well-being. Michelle's commitment goes beyond individual healing—she is passionate about fostering community healing, notably through her trauma-informed wellness retreats that spotlight Africa's unique wellness treasures.

    In Conclusion:

    Dive deep with us into this life-affirming episode as Michelle Saudan helps us uncover the profound impact of stored trauma on our health and guides us through the pathways of healing. Remember, the power to transform our health narratives is within our grasp, and with the right tools and wisdom, we can emerge stronger, healthier, and more vibrant.

    Ready to start your healing journey? Join us on The Hormone Prescription Podcast and take the first step towards not just surviving, but thriving. Because your health isn't just about hormones—it's about heart, healing, and harnessing your power.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

    G Mate is quoted as saying trauma is not what happens to you, but what happens inside you. Trauma affects all of us, and it affects our health. If it stays untended, we'll never achieve the brilliant health that's possible for us at midlife and beyond. Stay tuned as Michelle Sudan shares with you, how to use Compassionate Inquiry and other modalities to help ease the trauma that's hurting your health.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:27):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYN, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunton. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (01:20):

    Hi everybody, and welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thanks so much for joining me today as we talk with Michelle Sudan, a beautiful woman I met in Dubai who's going to talk to us about healing the trauma that binds you, that's hurting your health. Whether you know it or not, the majority of us pro, probably pretty much all of us have little T traumas throughout our life. I know we've talked on the podcast and during the Stop the Menopause Madness summits some about this, but we haven't really tackled it in a big way. How do you start to address this in a tolerable way that's compassionate and really helps you to understand how these little overwhelming situations in your childhood and life have affected your health and are affecting your health to this day. So we're gonna talk with Michelle about that.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (02:18):

    I met her when I was in Dubai. She's from Zimbabwe. She talks a little bit about her story, which is beautiful, as with many of the healers I met in Dubai. She has a multifaceted skill set and is just a gifted human being. And really I think it's her presence that's more healing than anything. You'll see what I mean when you hear her talk. I think she has a healing frequency that just heals people who are in conversation with her or listening to her. That's been my experience with her and I just had to have her on the show. I had some beautiful experiences with her when I was in Dubai. Looking forward to having more. I think you will love this conversation as we really talk about healing the trauma that's binding you that you might not even be aware of, maybe you are, and how to go about doing that. So I'll tell you a little bit about her and then we'll get started. Michelle Sudan is the founder of AM Manzi Wellbeing and a practitioner of healing arts. She's deeply committed to the transformative powers of trauma-informed approaches, found healing, breath movement, body work, and meditation. She's devoted to supporting and holding space for the healing and wellbeing of our global community via trauma-informed wellness retreats with a focus on expanding awareness of Africa's unique wellness assets. Please help me welcome Michelle Sudan to the show.

    Michelle Saudan (03:45):

    Thank you, Karen. I'm so happy to be here. It's an honor. Love you energy, and just happy to share.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:52):

    Mutual. I'm so glad that our past crossed when I was in Dubai and really your energy just spoke to me. You have such a calming presence. There's so much talk about trauma and trauma informed therapy. I think the world is really waking up to how we've collectively been traumatized and how it's affecting our health. I know that's been a part of my journey these past 10 years, and you just had a presence and a way of speaking about these issues that was extremely non-threatening and inclusive and compassionate. And I saw people opening up in response to what you shared in a way I hadn't seen before, and I very much appreciated that. I know I participated in inner child healing meditation that you offered at Eva experience in Dubai that was just beautiful and so many other interactions. I so enjoyed hearing you talk about your grandmother and how she would speak to you and speak to just the culture that you come from, the continent that you come from.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (05:15):

    It's steeped in you <laugh> in such a beautiful way. And so I was very excited to share you with my community because I think here in the US we women have been traumatized in ways that we don't even realize. And that was a big thing that happened for me in my year and a half travel outside the US was just seeing that, okay, yes, people have trauma pretty much everywhere, but it's very different in the ways in which, and the support systems and cultural differences in other areas that allow people to have a resiliency that I don't necessarily see here in the us. I mean, first off, the fact that it's talked about openly and collectively and discussed is so foreign to my US experience, particularly in the medical field where this really hasn't so much made it into the mainstream. It is starting to show that people are kind of left with not identifying, oh, this is talking to me, not aware particularly as a woman at midlife struggling with hormonal and other health issues. Oh, this is a part of my hormonal healing. Oh, what tools could I use? So you're left with a lot of women googling on doctor go, trying to find answers, maybe finding some answers, but really not a holistic, nurturing, supportive collective approach. So I'm wondering if you can start by talking a little bit about what brought you to trauma work and trauma healing. Hmm.

    Michelle Saudan (07:10):

    It's a lovely question. Thank you. Well, Kirin, I started my career as a bodyworker 14, now 14 years ago. And it came up to a point where a lot of my repeat clients would book sessions just to talk. I remember the first client, like it was yesterday, who booked a 90 minutes deep tissue massage. And he sat down and I said, well, you know, it is not first time he knows the protocol, you know, put the bath lay down. But he just sat and he said, no, Michelle, from today onwards, we'll do 15 minutes massage. 75 minutes we are going to talk. It started, and I was so confused because at that time, you know, 22 years old, I, I didn't know that there were such modalities like coaching and counseling and therapy. It doesn't exist in my part of the world in Zimbabwe where I came from.

    Michelle Saudan (08:09):

    So I started researching and, you know, came upon all these beautiful modalities and discovered that this was something I could, you know, serve my clients with. And then, then it was the topics that they brought as well, you know, topics such as suicide or harmful habits or, you know, depression, anxiety, which I did not know of, but they just opened up. And so I took it as my responsibility and also curiosity to find out more about these deeply rooted concerns that they were speaking to, and so that I could meet them at least halfway. And then that's how it started and it's been a roll on effect. And I remember watching a documentary called The Wisdom of Trauma by who is now one of my teachers, Dr. Gbo Mate, and his approached Compassionate Inquiry. And when I watched that, I just resonated with his teachings and everything that he spoke to in the world of trauma. And I decided to dive deep into somatic somatic healing when it comes to trauma informed practices and just an overall overarching theme when it comes to looking at trauma. And that's, yeah, that, that's the way it's taken me today. The nutshell.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (09:31):

    I love that because for so many reasons, the first, well one relates to this quote that you shared with me before we started recording, that I love by a h Almaas, only when compassion is present will people allow themselves to see the truth. I think that's something that I feel from you is from truth, but also peace, truth, inside peace. But the truth to me is peace. And that this man, bless him, <laugh>, he saw the truth of who you were and he didn't believe, oh, she's just a massage therapist. And he saw that truth in the compassion that you offered him, that came through your hands because you weren't counseling him. And he called that out in you. So he loved and respected himself enough to say, oh no, I see who this woman is. And he also saw what he needed. And then to basically stand for that truth, this is what I need.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (10:34):

    And so it, it's so beautiful. I do believe that we each have a unique purpose on this planet and a reason for being here. And that part of our health problems are the fact that we haven't recognized or allowed ourselves to know that truth. And particularly in America, we've tried to decide with our minds, oh, what's a good career? How can I make a good living and, and have quote unquote security with a good pension plan and 401k and a home and a car, and all this with our minds. And we haven't listened to our souls to allow us to be called forth from us what our true purpose and calling is. And so I love that story because it says to me, you were attuned and you were listening to what is the universe telling me that I'm here for what I'm good at? And he called that out in you. I just think it's so beautiful. Does that make sense?

    Michelle Saudan (11:40):

    It does. It's, it's similar to, you know, when you, when you reflect on the quote, what's so beautiful about it, Karen, is that if, if I came to you and I was pouring my soul and bearing everything that I needed help with, I'm gonna seize to see everything and see things as they are and be willing to accept them and see the truth. And not just the story, but the underlying truth of what's really happening to me. For me, if there is judgment, if I'm being seen to be that which is not right in my life, if I'm being seen through a lens of compassion, then I'm gonna be willing to see all the parts of me, the good and the bad. You know, the comfortable and the uncomfortable. So that truth, seeing the truth of what really is present, seeing the truth of the pain that's underneath, you know, whatever addiction, you know, if there's, because underneath the anger that I hold within my body, within my soma, I'm gonna be willing to see it all and listen to it being mirrored back to me when there's compassion present and I'm willing and I'm ready to open that Pandora's box.

    Michelle Saudan (12:53):

    'Cause when we open that box of healing, so much comes out that sometimes even shocks us. But if there's a compassionate witness or there's that sense of compassion within, then I'm, I'm not gonna be afraid. I'm just gonna be willing to open up that box load, I know what's inside, but I'm gonna be okay with it. 'cause The person in front of me is just mirroring that it's okay. And I think that really embodies what that quote stands for. And thank you for, for reflecting it back. I think it's so important.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (13:27):

    Yes. And something that has been really a part of my journey was initially I said, well, I want to work with women and help them with their health. So what's the biggest toolbox, most powerful toolbox I can get to access to help women? And so I said, oh, I'll get my medical doctorate. So I went to medical school and then I practiced that for many years. And then I saw that so many women, despite all the prescriptions I gave them and surgeries, I did hysterectomies, things like that, people were still suffering, particularly at midlife, including myself. And I said, well, we're missing something. Something's not right here. And then I discovered something called functional medicine. So that looked at the physiologic, biochemical causes of disease. So I studied that and that helped me transform my health and the women I was working with. But then after a while I started saying, wait a minute, yes, this works but not for everybody and why is that we're missing something.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (14:31):

    And then kind of went on my own healing journey and realized that the things that you help people with is what I was missing. And now I've realized, well this affects all of us, but very much in the US we have this mindset of, if I'm able to have a family and work at my job and be a productive member of society, this doesn't apply to me. Like there's very much this culture of don't talk, don't trust, don't feel like feelings are the enemy <laugh>. And I find in working with women with their health, feelings are everything. And that's really what stops us from doing the things that could help us with our physical health is the feelings that we don't feel, the traumatic history that we don't acknowledge, that we don't talk about. But people spend so much time and energy not talking about it and pretending that everything's okay.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (15:39):

    Put some lipstick on, do your hair, you know, what's that song? I got my hair done, dah, dah, everything's fine. Like that to me says American culture. And so a lot of what I spend time with women doing is trying to help them see that no, everything's not fine 'cause you got your hair done and your nails done. And that really avoids talking about the things that are underneath what's causing you to not follow the diet. You know, you should follow, you know, eating things that I say are not in your best interest. <Laugh> doing things that are not in your best interest and your energy provides kind of, I've seen people open up in a way that, well, and I, I must say that in the Middle East where I encountered you in general, people are more open to being aware of these things.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (16:36):

    I'm talking about it. And I was amazed to arrive there and find this huge conversation going on in the kind of public that isn't going on in the US particularly. Also, I saw that in South Africa about apartheid and it's very public. And people say to you right away, oh yeah, we talk about this. We have to heal from this as a country. So can you talk a little bit about how people come to realize that this is them? And I'll say one more thing. I know I've said a lot at the retreat that you gave her a treat and you had kind of a conversation with everyone that to my mind was about codependency. But you never said that word <laugh>. And you had people open up in a way that was so beautiful having this conversation in such a gentle way that women were realizing, oh yeah, this is me, but you never came at it. We come from a, in the US from a very top down perspective, oh, this is what the issue is and you need to da, and then people shut down. And no, that's not me. I'm not codependent. Can you talk a little bit about that? That's

    Michelle Saudan (17:46):

    A great question. It's like when you talk to a child, we have to realize that when people go through trauma, you know, like we all have gone through our own stuff, is that it causes us to put walls up and to protect and defend. That's a normal primal state of being when we're, you know, subjected to external forces that are, are not right, that are not safe for our being. So that when people are trying to heal, the last thing you want to do is, like you said, come from the mind because that's not gonna help anyone. It's what got them there. That's not what's gonna take them out. We need to come from the bottom, you know, and but come right from the heart center, that's what's gonna take them out. So in order to work with, with the trauma or to work with any of these circumstances that got people into the limiting states that they're in, then we can't be pointing fingers, for lack of a better word, it's gotta be different.

    Michelle Saudan (18:51):

    So that defenses are lowered and then we can work, then we have an open field. We don't have, we are not dealing with an army. You know, we are dealing with a peacemaking operation here that's ready to, to make amends and to see how we can fix things. And with regard to people talking about things you had said, you know, in South Africa, you know, people speak South Africa a little bit differently. That, and I love the movement and the energy, you know, that's building up. I can't say the same thing for other parts of Africa. I'm from Zimbabwe and Zimbabweans and South Africans, even though we share the same border is very different. Zimbabweans are still very much, we are very held back. I think we are 10 steps behind, for so many reasons. There's that fear, you know, that we can't speak, you know, after having, without bringing politics into this conversation.

    Michelle Saudan (19:51):

    But, you know, that has largely played a role, you know, lack of freedom of speech. It was never, never present from the time we won independence. But the South Africans had amazing leadership. Look at Nelson Mandela. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, that, you know, for them to rely on. But for us, we can't say the same. So it's, we are still stuck in that time zone where people are not so open, at least not yet. And I hope to be one of the people with other sisters and brothers to change that narrative, not just for Zimbabwe, but for the continent as its own. 'cause It's time for us to heal, not just as a country, but just as a people regardless of where we come from. Mm-Hmm.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (20:36):

    Yes. And so is your approach something that you came by more innately from your origins and your ancestors? Or is it something that you learned?

    Michelle Saudan (20:49):

    It is something I would say I learned largely because I grew up in a community where we did not speak and you just had to go and do your job. Just if you had a roof and you had something to eat, whether it was once a day, you, you, you were better off. You just go and you continue because things could be worse. That was the mantra in our homestead. So, but then something happened and I have to thank them. I, I got a youth exchange scholarship at 16 and I went for the first time to the USA and it was such a huge culture shock because we were taught to be quiet, respect the teachers <laugh>. And if we had an opinion, we kept it to ourselves. And when I went to a public school in Santa Barbara, it was very opposite.

    Michelle Saudan (21:48):

    Children spoke their minds. And so it, it really awoke something in me. I said, wow, you know, I mean, if we had a bit more respect, yes we can do it with some respect, but I loved how the children were just open, you know, they spoke the family. I stayed with them. The girls spoke about, you know, their emotions, how they were feeling openly with the parents. And that wasn't something I grew up with. So when I went back to Africa, it ignited something in me and I said, well, you know, I'd like that to be different, you know, 'cause it was nice, you know, we learned, we spoke our truth. Nothing was held and they were still together even though they spoke opinions. So it was a reflection. And then it was also something I learned because I traveled to so many countries in my time and then said, no, well, I've been extracted from what I've known for so long. I think this is where we are missing. We are missing something here as a people, as a culture. And this is hindering us in so many ways, economically, mentally, physically, socially, emotionally. And this is one of the major missing links, at least from the country I know of. I can't speak to others in the world, but from what I know from experience. So to a long-winded answer to your question, yes, it was learned.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (23:19):

    And so what was the evolution? Because yes, there are, people do speak their minds and opinions in the US and there's this whole reservoir of pain that isn't discussed, the feelings underneath. I'm wondering, coming from what you described in your cultural background and then the kind of eye-opening experience in the US, what was the evolution that allowed you to really have this deep presence and ability to sit with people in their pain and feelings? How did that evolve and how did you learn that? Hmm.

    Michelle Saudan (23:58):

    Yeah. Sitting with the deep pain comes from having gone through a lot of deep pain and adversity yourself. So I've gone through my own deep adversities, not just as an individual, but with my family is a lot of pain we've gone through as a collective. And I think watching when that's being mirrored to you as a child growing up. And you can see maybe we were not able to speak about the emotions, but the physical presence of holding space for people was always there is always part of the culture. You sit, there's no words being said, but we sit with the person and we know what's going on, but we sit and we grieve, we hold that space. So seeing that, but also having felt my family hold me and very much the same way and do the same for them is something you could sit with anything.

    Michelle Saudan (25:00):

    You know, people came with so many things and my grandmother was a, a nurse by night, but she did traditional African healing in the community, you know, and people were always coming to the home with different things and just sitting, you know, we could, they could be laughing and talking, but you see there was some pain and there'd just be silence, you know, or the body posture, you know, with the rounded shoulders and the heads down and the hands together under the chin as though you really, you know, I I I hear you, I resonate with you. So seeing that it's just been able to, to help me as well, to be able to sit with other people. It's like, no pain is, it is too big for me to be with you. I might not have all the answers to, or, you know, support to help you unpack it, but sitting with you that I can do no matter what. It's,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (25:58):

    That's so beautiful. Just being present with it. And, you know, my experience in the US is that we can't sit with, with uncomfortability. We gotta turn the TV on, eat that, you know, sweet compulsive avoidance of being present to discomfort, hence all the compulsive ways that we medicate our pain that then affect our health. You know, rates of diabetes, <laugh> and pre-diabetes are soaring in the US over consumption of sugar, but also caused by stress, which affects how we process sugar, right? It affects our cortisol stress hormone. And it's interesting to me, a big part of what I help women with is the menopause transition. And it's a huge problem in the US but in other cultures it's not as much. And it's partly because of our lifestyle and the things that we reach for and the stress levels that we have. But it's very hard to get people to see this because in a capitalist culture, people profit off of our poor health and our compulsions. And it's such a part of the culture that we're taught when we're literal, oh, you fell and skinned your knee, have a cookie that'll make you feel better. How would you help someone compassionately lean into looking at the ways that they compulsively avoid their pain and feeling their feelings? Hmm.

    Michelle Saudan (27:31):

    Yeah. The first one, and I always use this word, is first compassion for yourself where there's no judgment. 'cause What leads us into the, the habits is then now the, you know, finding ways to cope with how bad we feel about ourselves, right? Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. So it's okay, you know. So first I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll share an acronym that I share with many of my clients and something I use myself. So it's raining. So r stands for just recognize, just recognize what's going on for you. Okay? There's anger within me, there's guilt, or there's shame, or there's deep sadness. So there's grief. Just recognize what's there. And then the next thing is a, is allow, can you allow it to be there? You know, can, can the sadness be there without you trying to change it or whatever it is. And then I am in choir, just get curious, okay, what's really happening for me?

    Michelle Saudan (28:31):

    You know? And this creates space, you know, it gives you really a lot of space between the stimulus and you know, your reaction or your response. So get curious, okay, well what's happening? You know, what's triggered that? What's brought this on? And then the last part is to nurture yourself. So by the time you get curious and you say, oh, okay, well it was something someone said, okay, that triggered this belief. You know, there's this, there's something, 'cause this is, this is a pattern. Now there's space. You're becoming more conscious. And as Carl Young says, it's, it's until we make the unconscious conscious, it'll drive our lives and we'll call it fate. So here you are being conscious now, you know, by just doing this, you know, recognizing can you allow it to be with no judgment? Can the grief be there without me saying, oh, enough now, or have grieved for too long, I've been too sad, I've been crying for too long, or I haven't cried enough.

    Michelle Saudan (29:34):

    You know, can there be no evaluation on, on, you know, what's present for us? And then we get curious. And then the last part is nurture. Okay, what do you really need besides the cookie, you know, or the ice cream tub, is it a hug? Do I need to talk to someone? What's underlying? Because if it's, if it's a habit that doesn't serve you, it's okay, but let's look at what it's giving you. So when we look at a cookie, what are we getting? You know, we get dopamine, right? We circuits are wiring and firing. So from that, eating that satisfaction from the sugar. So what is that equivalent to? It's equivalent to a hug, quality touch. Yeah. So can I try that instead? And then it doesn't hurt me internally. So that's how the framework I use, it seems like a long little, long checklist. But when it's more conscious, it's just the way of being as opposed to, to doing. I

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (30:32):

    Love that. So rain, recognize our recognize a allow, I was

    Michelle Saudan (30:39):

    In choir, so this was curiosity. And then n was is nurture,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (30:46):

    Right? And that quote from Carl Young, until we make the unconscious conscious, it will drive our lives and we will call it fate. And so many of the women I work with really have the mindset and attitude that my life is the way it is. I only have this health problem, this hormonal problem. Most of the women who come to me. And I just want you to tell me what supplements I need to take, diet to eat, exercise to do, to get rid of these symptoms. And not really seeing how unconscious patterns are playing a role in their health problems. And for so many of us, it is, I know for me, you know, unconscious patterns of this belief of I wouldn't be doing a good job as a doctor if I wasn't bleeding myself in my giving, right? I had to suffer in my giving.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (31:41):

    And then that caused me to overwork and overdue, which then affected my wellbeing and health. But it was such a compulsive, unconscious belief. And now I've kind of transformed that. 'cause I recognized it and it wasn't serving me. So I guess I kind of did this <laugh> rain. I inquired this is serving me, oh, it's hurting me. And then I didn't, couldn't show up my best self and then started to nurture myself and say, no, I, you know, I can only really help other women to nurture themselves when I nurture myself. And so I stopped doing that. And I find that a lot of the women I work with have that similar belief. They give till it hurts. What thoughts would you share about that?

    Michelle Saudan (32:32):

    My grandmother always used to refer to this. I don't remember the passage, but it was from the Bible and it was about my cup runneth over. And she always used to say, you know, I'm, I'm a nurse, but at the end of the day, you know, my cup has to be four and the extra is what I give you children's, what I give my patients. And that was always something she spoke. And we didn't understand what it meant as an adult, I do now, but when we are giving so much and get into something where we spoke lightly saying compassion fatigue, you know, is giving so much that there is an underlying belief. And that's something that is very old. So it's something we have to look at, you know, within ourselves. It's like, okay, where, where is this coming from?

    Michelle Saudan (33:27):

    Because it's okay to give, you know, we're all in this line of service. But when it's, there's an, an agenda because it's a, it's attached to something that, that doesn't serve us where we de be depleting ourselves. So there's some work for us to do. 'cause It shouldn't be that way where when it's, when it comes out that way, there's, there's something where it started is so, so my question would be, where did you learn that you had to give so much of yourself that, or you depended or you placed your value on how much you know you gave. So something you learned. So it's, where did you learn that? And can we look at it from a nonjudgmental lens and see what's happening?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (34:15):

    So yes, the compassionate inquiry, and I know that you work with Gabor mate and I wanna share a couple quotes that you also shared with me. One from Gabor, which is, trauma is not what happens to you, but what happens inside you and the other from Tara Brock, whom I love the deepest transformations in our lives come down to something very simple. We learn to respond, not react to what is going on inside us. And very much what I hear you talking about is first becoming aware that something's happening. I think this used to be me and, and so many women I work with, we're not, we don't even, we're not, we don't even recognize these internal thought and feeling processes that are happening. And then we try to shut them down because we don't wanna go there. So we don't allow it. And then we're certainly not inquiring <laugh> because I just need to put my lipstick on and keep it moving. And then we don't really know how to nurture ourselves 'cause we're not in touch with what we're needing and what we're wanting. But this idea of slowing it all down and learning to respond and not knee-jerk reaction, how would you help a woman to start to slow down and to start to respond and not react and really turn towards herself in this way?

    Michelle Saudan (35:47):

    It's, I think cultivating or having a practice of your own, you know, a mindfulness practice. And what I mean by that, Karen is not, not everyone needs to light a candle and burn incense and have a meditation cushion. You know, it, it, it can sound like making your own pot shrimp soup on a Sunday. And, and that's your moment and taking all the time. If whatever takes you out from the busyness, you know, of your external and really brings you in, then find that and use it as an anchor. If you love trimming your roses, let that be that moment where you say, okay, I'm gonna try and be as present as I can consciously and use this moment to, to really, I'm trimming the roses, but there's also, it gives me space and time just to be with myself, to slow down, you know, walking your dog, brushing your dog or your horses, just whatever it is, just find something that really anchors you.

    Michelle Saudan (36:51):

    We all have it, but maybe we just haven't consciously realized that, hey, that is my thing, you know, but you just unconsciously drawn to it, but you just didn't know that that is your, you know, your, your silver, your golden key to presence. So finding any practices that really bring you into the present moment to really slow down and anchor you can really make a difference. Because it's in those spare moments where you actually think, you know, well no, that didn't go well. What, what's wrong? You start questioning and give you space to contemplate if you are also ready to go there. Sometimes we can have all the space, but if we are not ready to go there, then all we'll have is just space. But, you know, so I hope that that helps. But just finding one's own way of taking that moment. But like you said, self-awareness is just do I realize that something's wrong and or something needs to be changed? Not wrong, I'll, I'll take back that word, but just something that needs to be changed. And if you just have that realization that no, something needs to change, then you have presence, voila, the rest will unfold.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:10):

    Yes, presence and awareness. And it leads me to a question that really has been reframed for me recently, and that is, what is self-love to you? How would you describe that to someone? Because we hear so much, oh, love yourself, love yourself. But really what does that mean on an everyday basis? What does it look like? What does it feel like? What, how do you do that?

    Michelle Saudan (38:35):

    Yeah. self-love. I, I think for me when I have a balance between authenticity and attachment, it means that I'm not stretching myself too thin to save the relationships around me. I'm not, I'm not putting myself on a spit as a sacrifice for the relationships I have. There is an element of me nourishing those relationships, but there's also a balance of me nourishing myself in equilibrium that for me, daily, because I'm in a relationship daily as all of us are, it's a very big thing because your relationships really test you. You know, <laugh> as my young aunt made a joke. She said, well, if you want to get to know your crazy, have relationships or go live on an island, <laugh>,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:30):

    You <laugh>.

    Michelle Saudan (39:32):

    So it's so self-love is, in what ways are you choosing you even in the daily mundane things? I think it goes beyond, you know, spoiling yourself with a beautiful breakfast and a spa day or meditation treat at a center. But it's just how are you choosing you every day and how are you holding yourself accountable? 'cause It's also gotta be self-Love is also that element of allowing yourself to see your own growing edge, because then there's evolution, you know, that is also self-love. Not just in the ways we give space for, for ourselves, but it's also in recognizing, no, you know, this is where I contributed to this conflict or, you know, I, I wasn't my best here. You know, I could have done better, I could have responded better. That I feel, oh, I believe is also self-love because you are so self-aware and you are growing. So where are you catching yourself to be accountable and responsible for actions that may not have served or hurt somebody else's? Also, self-love, if it makes sense.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (40:44):

    Yes. I love that. Balancing authenticity and attachment and how you are choosing you every day and holding and holding yourself accountable. So it's kind of like a responsibility to yourself and to others. And how do you hold both of these gently in both hands together? <Laugh>, that's kind of what I heard. You have a beautiful retreat coming up that I would really like to go to. So I'm gonna see if the universe would like me to go. So I'm setting that intention 'cause it would be my 60th birthday, and I've been wondering what do I want to do for my 60th birthday? And then I saw the retreat you have and I said, oh my gosh, what I love, love that. And I try to live my life by what would I love to have happen? Because in this life I only get one <laugh>. So I try to be guided by that. But do you wanna tell everybody about it in case they might be interested? We'll also have a link to your website that has the details, but tell everyone about it.

    Michelle Saudan (41:50):

    Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. Thank you, Karen. Here, this retreat is called the Ancient Walks of Wisdom. And the intention was to, to really hone in on the holistic, forgotten languages of healing on the continent of Africa. But some of the oldest tribes such as the Himba and the Sam, who we know as the, you know, being the guardians of nature, they only take what they need. You know, they move from different ends of their lands with only what they can carry. But when, if I were to move, I speak to myself, I need a whole moving truck. I cannot carry everything in my hands. And it's a reminder for me, and I hope that it would be a reminder for those that come is that we forget to live lightly and not just externally, but internally. And this was the intention. And just to really look at how they live in unison and community with their children.

    Michelle Saudan (42:51):

    For example, one of the tribes we will visit is a Himba tribe. And the woman does not put the child on the ground unless he wants to, to walk and run. But she, he, this baby is latched with the mom 24 hours, you know? And eye contact and holding is something that we've lost in modern society. So this was just for us to come back. We are teaching this, we are learning this now by reeducating with modern studies and trauma, somatic healing. But when we look at it is something we already did in all our tribes, wherever we come from. So this is just to reconnect us, what has always been, but we've just forgotten. And this is what this retreat will embody. And I have one for local women. 'cause One thing I realized was that some of the retreats I was doing, which I canceled most of, was I didn't see my grandmother in who I was trying to represent.

    Michelle Saudan (43:56):

    I didn't see my mom or my great-grandmother, and they would have never afforded some of the retreats. And I said, well, I think I need to, to change this. And it gives me so much passion to now do some really low income retreats for just most women. So I'd like most women to be able to come and connect, like what we did at her retreat. I'd like everyone to be able to come because trauma and mental health is how it's seen right now in, in, in Africa is if you've, you know, in a mental health hospital, then that's when you need it. But if you don't do it again, put on the lipstick like you said and carry on. So I'd like to open that up. 'cause Our ancient elders, they did all of this, so they just didn't call it a retreat, but there was that support. So I'd like to bring that back in a way that suits us in the day and age we are living right now. So that's what I have upcoming and I'm really excited to share it and hopefully maybe I will come closer to you in the states and we can do some for, you know, for everyone's. I believe everyone should be able to have this at their fingertips.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (45:13):

    Oh, that sounds beautiful and I love your consideration for, for inclusivity at all economic levels. It's something that I struggle with in what I offer because to provide the type of services is rather expensive, and that means that some women are left out. And one of the ways that I can be more inclusive is by providing this podcast free. So I love having guests who come on and really I offer as you have this depth and perspective that they're not encountering every day and, and information and inspiration that they can use for healing. I mean, you sharing the rain technique, I invite everyone who's listening to start using that and just maybe keep it in your mind and the next time something happens that is disturbing or troubling or keeps coming to your mind, maybe just spend some time using that rain process of cognize, recognizing, allowing, inquiring and nurturing. That's a place to start. And I invite everyone listening also to look at, at Michelle's website and the offerings that she has, we'll have the link in the show notes that you can click. I thank you so much for just being who you are and for sharing yourself with us and the world. I think you've been a healing presence for me, and I know everyone listening to this show feels that as well.

    Michelle Saudan (46:50):

    Oh, thank you, Karen. It's been a joy. Thank you so much. Love to everyone listening and if anything, just remember it didn't start with you. I think we can love ourselves to healing by remembering just that. And yeah, I look forward to seeing you, Karen. If not at the retreat, I see you in Dubai or somewhere where God aligns us. But thank you too for the work you're doing.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (47:15):

    Thank you. And you know that what you just said, it didn't start with you. That's a whole other conversation, <laugh>, that we can have. So maybe we'll have that at another date. If you're listening and that intrigues you and you would like us to talk about that, please reach out to me and let me know and we'll see if Michelle might allow us to make that happen. Thank you so much for joining me today. Look forward to hearing your experiences with the rain process, which is really a beautiful process that Michelle has shared with us. Thank you so much. I will see you next week in another episode. Until then, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (47:54):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

    ► Know more about Michelle Saudan's offerings in the transformative powers of sound, breath, movement, bodywork and meditation. CLICK HERE.

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  • Welcome to the latest episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, where empowerment at midlife isn't just a dream—it's your reality! In this enriching episode, we're thrilled to bring you insights from the esteemed Dr. William Li.

    Dr. Li isn't just any guest; he's a life-changing force in the world of medicine. From the prestigious stages of TED Talks to the informative panels of top news programs, Dr. Li has become the voice that's reshaping our understanding of health. His revolutionary insights have contributed to more than 40 medical treatments for diseases making waves in the waters of wellness.

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    Burn fat without starving yourselfHeal your metabolism for goodUse food scientifically proven to fuel longevity

    Dr. Li's message is tailored not just for the health-conscious but for anyone who's yearning for control over their body's destiny. And for midlife women, this might just be the Hormone Prescription you've been waiting for.

    Prepare yourself for a conversation that's loaded with practical advice, backed by rigorous science, and imbued with a dash of culinary magic. Are you ready to transform your midlife experience? Then grab a comfy spot, tune in, and get ready to Eat to Beat Disease!


    Featured in This Episode:

    Why your kitchen holds the key to disease preventionDr. Li's groundbreaking research that's revolutionizing the medical communityStrategies to nourish your body at the cellular level for lasting healthA peek into Dr. Li’s latest literary masterpiece

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

    Natural forces within us are the true healers of disease. Hippocrates, stay tuned and find out your most powerful tool when it comes to mastering your metabolism at midlife with Dr. William Li.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:15):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYN, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (01:08):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me as we dive in with Dr. William Li to talk about eating to Beat disease. Eat to Beat Disease is the name of his New York Times bestselling book on the new Science of How Your Body Can Heal Itself. He also has another book, Eat to Beat Your Diet, burn fat, heal your Metabolism, and live longer. Needless to say, he is an expert when it comes to what to eat, how to eat when it comes to improving your health, and he is super passionate about food. He loves to cook like I do. So we had a really great conversation I think you're going to enjoy. He is gonna talk a little bit about the quote from Hippocrates that I shared with you in the teaser, and also another one from Bruce Li and another one about what discovery actually consists of and how it can help you when it comes to creating great health.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (02:14):

    I'll tell you a little bit about Dr. Li and then we'll get started. Dr. William Li is a medical doctor and internationally renowned physician scientists and author of the New York Times bestseller Eat to Beat Disease. His groundbreaking research has led to the development of more than 40 new medical treatments that impact care for more than 70 diseases, including diabetes, blindness, heart disease, and obesity. His TED Talk, can we eat to starve? Cancer has garnered more than 11 million views. Dr. Li has appeared on Good Morning America, C-N-N-C-N-B-C, Rachel Ray, and live with Kelly and Ryan. He's been featured in USA Today Time Magazine, the Atlantic O Magazine and more. He is president and medical director of the Angiogenesis Foundation and he's leading global initiatives on food as medicine. And he has a new book, New York Times bestseller, Eat to Beat Your Diet about burning fat, healing your Metabolism of living longer. And it was released in March of 2023. This is a super fan girl moment for me because Dr. William Li is amazing, personable, and passionate. I think you're gonna love him as much as I do. Please help me welcome Dr. William Li to the show.

    Dr. William Li (03:29):

    Well, thank you very much Dr. Dun, it's a real pleasure. Yes, it's

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:32):

    A pleasure to have you here. I heard you speak at a conference a few years ago and I thought to myself, oh, I wanna have him on the podcast. That would be amazing. And you're very in demand. So I think it took me this long to <laugh> be able to get you on the show, but I'm super honored to have you here. Your books have transformed so many people's lives and really helped to move forward people's level of understanding about their diet, what they're putting in their mouths and their health, the outcomes they're getting. So I'm very curious, as a traditionally trained physician trained, how did you come to become so passionate and knowledgeable about eating to beat disease?

    Dr. William Li (04:21):

    Well, you know, those of us who trained in traditional medicine know how little nutrition actually is taught in medical school or during training, and that's certainly true in my own education. I had some secret sauce that I brought into the equation before I went to med school. I studied biochemistry in college and afterwards I took a gap year. And during my gap year before going to medical school, I traveled to the Mediterranean. I lived in Italy and I lived in Greece. And my interest all the way back then was in studying the interconnections between diet, culture and health. And what really interested me, and this is again, long before I went to med school, I was curious about how these cultures in Italy and Greece developed their food traditions and the seasonal eating that they did using whole plant-based foods, primarily long before these terms became popular and how much it meant to them culturally.

    Dr. William Li (05:26):

    In other words, people are eating, the children are eating what the parents are eating, who cooked what the Nonas or the grandmas are eating. And they passed these traditions and recipes down and it's been going on for hundreds of years. And, and that was really interesting to me because of my own background being Asian American. I grew up with cultural legacies that came from my own family and we saw lots of things mixing together, but I was always very curious about that link. And of course, being in the Mediterranean, I got to see people viewing food not outta fear, which is what we so often encounter. Oh, I don't know what I should eat. Should I be afraid of saturated fat? Should I be fearing dairy? Should I be fearing soy? I saw something completely different. And what I saw was people approaching food with joy.

    Dr. William Li (06:16):

    When people in the Mediterranean sat down for a meal, they usually sat down with company. And when they were, and the conversation they had inevitably when they were eating together was about the food that was placed in front of them and its tastes and the seasonality and how their mothers prepared or how their spouses would prepare the foods at home. And it made me realize as I then, you know, later went to medical school by contrast, how absent the idea of food and health in our culture and American culture was, and so I could never forget that. And as I memorized bugs and drugs, as you know, from medical training, my, you know, my, and as I observed all the terrible, crappy food and lifestyle, the diet, lifestyle of the medical student and the resident was just so terrible. I started to realize that there clearly was a missing piece of what modern doctors are trained on.

    Dr. William Li (07:17):

    And I think that the tide is changing a little bit, but here, hear me out for a second. What was missing was really the toolbox of the medical community. Before 1930, we had no antibiotics, we had no fancy drugs. You know, doctors going back in the beginning of the 19 hundreds and going back thousands of years really only had what was in the natural world and food and lifestyle as our only tools. And somehow in those last, you know, let's say 90 years, a hundred years or so, we lost sight of the fact that food is a tool in our toolbox. And so we have, we're training doctors to practice with inventions, medications surgery and radiation and all this other kind of stuff. And we've forgotten our roots and the roots of the food being a tool in the toolbox is so important because we now have the science.

    Dr. William Li (08:13):

    And I'm a scientist, I'm an internal medicine doctor trained for, for, you know, young and old men and women, healthy and sick. And I realized the huge wonderful opportunity was for people who had the scientific knowledge like me to dive, to do the deep dive, kind of like the, I could dive into the mosh pit of food using the same scientific rigor that we use for drug development to try to understand why foods are good for us, we know they taste good, now we have a better understanding of why they're actually beneficial as well. So I'm all about what foods to add and the new knowledge coming out of that rather than what foods to avoid. Although obviously there are some foods that one should avoid as well. Yes,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (08:55):

    Thank you so much for sharing that. You know, as you were speaking, a couple things came to mind. I recently watched a British series that I think took place in the 1800s. And whenever somebody felt ill, they gave them bone broth. They didn't call it bone broth, but they called it broth. Yeah. And so exactly what you're saying is something that I've observed and, you know, chicken soup, where does that come from? It's broth. Well, it's bone broth and then what you shared about traveling to Italy. And I have the pleasure of traveling to France with Walter Willette from Harvard. I think he's the author of, is it The French

    Dr. William Li (09:34):

    Paradigm? Yeah, I know Walter. Yes. Very good.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (09:36):

    Yeah. And to study why they don't have the, the cardiac and other diseases that we have based on their diet. And so that was really fascinating. So you just said that picking your food from a joyful place versus a fearful place, which I love. And really focusing on what foods to add. So what has been most surprising to you in the research that you've done in terms of what foods to add?

    Dr. William Li (10:05):

    Okay, so the wonderful thing about being a scientist is that we're always surprised because we're at, you know, as a scientist, most people think that researchers, scientists spend all their time getting together and dishing brainiac rocket science on each other. But in fact, that's not what real scientists do. When we get together with other scientists, we spend all of our time talking about questions that we don't know the answers to. And so we don't actually talk about what we know. We talk about what we don't know. And so for me, the opportunity to do research on food as medicine is a wonderful opportunity to continuously being surprised by what we're actually discovering. Give you some examples. All right. We know that berries are healthy, right? I mean, colorful berries eat the rainbow. I love strawberries, I love blueberries, I love blackberries. They're, they're good for us.

    Dr. William Li (10:58):

    They're anti-inflammatory. I think most people would actually know that. Okay, well, when I first dove into this food as medicine world, one of the things that I did with colleagues at the National US National Cancer Institute, this, my colleagues were actually doing drug discovery, trying to find new cancer drugs. And so in that process you have, as a researcher, you're not aware of what you're testing. So they call it blinded or masked. So you have no idea what you're testing to be objective. And you would throw these chemical powders or liquids into a test system to see if they would starve cancer by cutting off the blood supply. All right? That's what this project was all about. And what I did in a, what was considered daring back then, I decided to sneak about 20 different food extracts into the system. So maybe there were 50 drugs to test, and I snuck 20 extras.

    Dr. William Li (11:51):

    So there were 70 site things to test, and literally we were testing food versus drugs head to head in the same system for cancer discovery and drug development. Okay? Cancer drug treatment. I was so surprised to discover that strawberry extracts contain something called ACH acid. So you don't have to be a chemist, a chemist, but just know that people that are doing the research, we're beginning to figure out what these substances are. Allergic acid is a powerful anti-cancer substance because it cuts off the blood supply that's actually growing that could feed a cancer cell. And we validated and tested this head-to-head with cancer drugs. Okay? Now that was a big surprise. Fast forward to just a couple of weeks ago, I was surprised yet again that other researchers have been studying strawberries looking at the same types of substances, the IC acid. And now we know there's another group of compounds called pro anthocyanins.

    Dr. William Li (12:49):

    And guess what they've been shown to do in clinical studies. This is a study from the University of Cincinnati where they looked at about 30 men and 30 people with mild cognitive deficits. So not full on dementia, but heading in that direction. And they found that one cup worth of strawberries per day over the course of six weeks could improve memory and cognitive performance. Amazing. Now, and that's the same substance. So here it is, you know, strawberries have activity in the Cancer Drug Act along the lines of a cancer drug. Strawberries have activities and a clinical study along the lines of helping people who are having cognitive difficulties. If that's not foodist medicine, if that's not real research being conducted, I don't know what is. And these are the kinds of surprises that I literally get out of bed, right? Roll out of bed, and I've got like one foot in the past, you know, the same stuff that you and I trained on Dr.

    Dr. William Li (13:49):

    Dunson, you know, the bugs and drugs as I call them. Okay? Right. And, and, and the other foot in the future, because this is what we're discovering how the mother nature's pharmacy, pharmacy with the f not a pH, the mother's nature's pharmacy, is more incredible than we ever imagined. And so this is why I think I'm surprised by tea. Green tea is good for you, but so is a super fermented tea called P or tea. Guess what? P or tea is even a probiotic tea that improves metabolism studied in human trials. Amazing. And so every day I am surprised by something and it makes me smile. And it makes me happy to realize that we are able to lean into the foods that we should be adding to our system and learning more about that and not just vilifying foods, which has been really kind of like the cave we've crawled outta.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (14:44):

    Yes. You know, you mentioned poo or tea and I call it dirt tea <laugh> because it has a different taste, so you have to get used to it. But because of the health benefits, I remember when I first tried it, I didn't care for it, but I said, I'm gonna learn to like it because it's good for me. And now I love it. So I think that what are a lot of people's objections to eating in ways that are healthy? You know, I don't know anybody listening when's the last time they ate a fresh strawberry or a fresh green green or had something like a poo or tea. But people say it's expensive. They say it's time consuming. It's not convenient. They say it doesn't taste good. So how do you, you've done this beautiful research and really shown that these foods can help and bring them into your diet. These other foods maybe you wanna eat less of, but the practicalities of those cost in terms of time, financial expense, and then also the dislike. How do you help people get past those?

    Dr. William Li (15:55):

    Sure. Okay. So I wrote two books that became New York Times Best Sellers. Yeah. Eat to Beat Disease and Eat to Beat Your Diet. And one of the things that I did as I wrote each book is I created tables and charts of foods that have been scientifically and clinically shown to be beneficial to help boost your body's health defenses. These foods make you healthier, okay? And the evidence and the science proves it. Okay? So, but I took all the, I did all the heavy lifting for my readers. And so the tables and charts are there. What I tell people to do is if you take, if you crap go of my books and you just take a photograph, screenshot of the tables and charts, and please take a sharpie or pencil or, or whatever you're writing with highlighter and circle the foods among those 300 that you already like, you know, maybe some people don't like green beans or Brussels sprouts, but maybe they like peaches or maybe like berries.

    Dr. William Li (16:51):

    You know, if you start circling these things, I always say I have not found anybody over the last four years. I've been challenged that couldn't find something, some foods, in some cases, many foods, but they're circling like crazy. And I said, guess what? You have just won the lottery, the food and health lottery because you've circled the foods that are already good for you and you like them. You've said that you like them. So if you start eating healthy foods that you already like, you are way ahead of the game. 'cause You're, you already like the foods that are good for you, start with that. Go to the grocery store. And, and so that's one way of actually addressing the like versus dislike. I'm starting with you and I'm trying to find out in a very personal way, what are your taste preferences? Everyone's different. Everyone's got their comfort foods.

    Dr. William Li (17:35):

    Everyone, you know, everyone can remember something that mom cooked when we were kids that we actually really resonate with. That's cool because you're almost certainly going to find something good, and you're gonna find something that's healthy. Now, that's one thing. What about the cost? Look, there was once this idea that you have to eat organic and you have to eat local and you have to eat fancy stuff. Turns out that the research is showing that the dirt cheap stuff, not just dirt tea, but dirt cheap foods is actually good for you. Yeah. Nuts and seeds, you know, walnuts, pecans, almonds, all those kinds of things you can buy in bulk. You know, go to one of those big discount stores and buy them in bulk. Great for our gut health, which then improves our metabolism, helps our fat hormones, helps all kinds of other aspects in our lives. Lowers cholesterol. It doesn't have to be expensive.

    Dr. William Li (18:26):

    One of the least expensive things I can think of that I actually like and I, and I put into my own shopping cart is not fancy pants at all. I love navy beans. All right, Navy beans. You go to the middle aisle and you just get a can of this stuff. They're pretty inexpensive. Navy beans have lignins, they've got great soluble fiber. They eat super fast, super cheap, crack a pan, the crack thing over there, rinse 'em out. Okay? I rinse all that cloudy stuff away from it. All right? Stick 'em in a pot. Heat 'em up, throw some inexpensive herbs that you can get outta your pantry to light it up a little bit. And you got yourself a gut healthy meal that's good for your gut microbiome, shown by evidence that it's not only inexpensive, it actually works to improve your metabolic health.

    Dr. William Li (19:16):

    So I think that, you know, if you take a look at healthy food, it's not only for the 1%. I think in fact the elemental foods, the things that used to be widely available to everyone are, can actually be really, really healthy, including dried foods, which tend to be healthy. You can store them longer, you can buy them in bulk. And that's totally fun. Here's something a lot of people don't realize. I know that it's true that eating mostly vegetarian, all vegetarian, you don't have to be vegan, but a mostly vegetarian diet is gonna be healthier for you. But if you eat seafood, okay, you don't have to go to the fancy fish market to buy expensive line cuts, whatever. Okay? If you go to the middle of the grocery store and you just carefully look for little tins of fish, I'm not talking about cat food.

    Dr. William Li (20:06):

    Don't go, don't go to the pet food section <laugh>, okay? I used to think canned tuna was cat food because it smelled exactly like what we'd feed a cat. But there is a, in the Mediterranean, there's a long history of tinned foods, tinned sardines, tinned mackerel, tin tuna. They put a little extra virgin olive oil and they added some spices and herbs. They might put some like piquillo peppers or something in, you can find these in a grocery store and they're not expensive. You can buy a big pack of them, you can put 'em in a pantry. And man, do they make a tasty Omega-3 healthy oil final. Not only the Omega-3 fats, but also olive oil when they're cooked with that, you can just put that with a piece of crusty sourdough bread and have some raw carrots and you put yourself a real snack.

    Dr. William Li (20:53):

    And you know, wherever the girls, the girls dinner or the girls meal, like they talk about something like that, can be inexpensive and incredibly tasty and healthy for you as well. So I always tell people, don't let price be the obstacle. There's lots of things that are inexpensive that anyone can actually afford. Okay? And then the other issue about convenience, all right? I think that if you look on the internet today, you pick an ingredient, beans, kale, tomatoes, what have you, nuts, tree nuts. And if you want to actually find something, a simple way to do it, you don't need to bust open that old yellowed thick book that your mom used to keep around as a cookbook, right? <Laugh> passed around for generation, you, you know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah. All you gotta do is to go on a Google type ingredient, you know, collars or kale and type a recipe and type simple, how about 15 minutes, alright?

    Dr. William Li (21:48):

    20 minutes and hit search and type, click on the video and watch somebody show you how to do it. All right? It's easy to do. And so I think that we should, and by the way, there, I, I have to tell you, as somebody who enjoys cooking, I'm not only a scientist and a doctor, I actually love cooking. But to me it's joyful. It's relaxing. I get some time by myself, I'm creating something. Listen, if that actually fits your personality as well, there's nothing better than knowing that you're eating and feeding your loved ones, then your friends and family as something that you put together. And you know everything that you put into it, and you can make those decisions for other people and it tastes great. So again, I hear you point out the exact same things that lots of people talk about as obstacles to healthy eating. And from my perspective, they're not really obstacles at all. You just have to look at them in a different way.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (22:41):

    I love that answer and I wholeheartedly agree. I was blessed to be raised by a mother who actually was a trained chef. She trained with Anne-Marie Colman at the Natural Gourmet Cookery School in New York. And Anne-Marie was one of the pioneers in teaching people how to cook mostly. I don't think she dealt with meat at all, actually. It was vegetarian, healthy, tasty meals. So I learned at a young age how to cook healthy food. Of course, I went off to medical school and I came back and told my mother, ' we heal with steel mother <laugh>. 'cause I thought I knew better. It wasn't until I had my own health challenges that I went back to her and then really started to pay attention to how she cook healthy food that is delicious with healthy ingredients and, and really learns how to do it in an efficient, cost effective manner. Yeah. So I think it's something, it's a skill that anyone can learn. And abso you described beautifully.

    Dr. William Li (23:42):

    Absolutely. And you know, listen, if you know how to change a tire in your car or put in or change your oil in your engine, if you know how to fix the gutter or the, or, or the, the drain sink, if you know how to plunge a toilet, you can actually, you're, you're smart enough to know how to actually cook something tasty. And I like them. I I love the idea. I don't know, I, I don't know if you're saying healing with steel, it refers to cookware, but like, you know, but oh, <laugh>. But, that's another way to think about it. You know, like, look, you don't have to go to the hospital and sit in the waiting room, you know, to be called by the nurse. I think that there are, look, I'm, I, we're both doctors and so I'm quite confident that we're on the same page.

    Dr. William Li (24:26):

    There are medical issues that you must go to your doctor for and communicate with your doctor for, and that only your doctor can really solve for you because it's not something you can really tackle at home. But on the other hand, healthcare, and I think you'll agree with me as well, it doesn't happen in the doctor's office or the hospital. Healthcare is what we, what people deliver for themselves between visits to the doctor's office, between visits to the ER, to the hospital or the infusion clinic or wherever you're going. You care for yourself. We do medical interventions, you know, in a doctor's office, we can do assessments, but the care for your health is what we do for, to all of ourselves at home. And, and food is just, you know, one of the several important things, because obviously we can't just think about this over simply.

    Dr. William Li (25:14):

    I mean, you've got exercise, you've got stress management, you've got sLip socialization, all things that are part of self-care. And, and look, everybody out there is in the world now, you know, in this new era of self-care, right? Where we know not to overwork ourselves, we know not to overload ourselves at work. Self-Care is really sort of a new era where we are taking responsibility for the amount of stress that that either we put in ourselves or other people, people put in ourselves. I think nutrition and eating well, and importantly, eating the things that you like that are healthy, all right? It's gotta taste good. That's how our, and it's just another thing to really think about and cultivate for yourself.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (25:59):

    Yes, I am saying that 2024 is the new self-love and self-care. It's like the next level. It's time to bump it up a notch and really make self-love an action word. It's a verb. And really meeting your needs and your wants and your desires to a high level, including your diet. I do know that a lot of women listening are dealing with what I call midlife metabolic mayhem. The 60 plus symptoms that women start experiencing over 40, the top two being fatigue and weight gain. So they're gonna wanna hear something from you about your second book, eat to beat your diet, how you heal your metabolism, burn fat, and live longer. So can you talk a little bit about the challenges for all of us, but maybe particularly for women over 40 with their metabolism and what's happening there and how they can work with their diet to assist them?

    Dr. William Li (26:58):

    Yeah, well listen you know, if you're a woman in your, in a, in the middle of your life and you're struggling with the actual issues or the questions about weight gain, weight management, fatigue, you know, all the things that, well, I think most people recognize, dread and maybe even accept that they're gonna have to contend with as they get into their forties and fifties and, and later in their lives. I have some good news. First of all, my book, Eat to Beat Your Diet, is not a diet book. That's a trick title. It's an anti-D diet book. I wrote a book about how you don't need to go on these intense, crazy diets that might actually help you lose a few pounds or maybe even more than a few pounds, but you can't stick to them. But how you can instead use the latest thinking about human metabolism, about body fat and the connections to our hormones or to our energy levels, to our ability to live rich, fulfilling lives in a way that we didn't recognize before.

    Dr. William Li (28:01):

    And let me explain this in a way that I think people can understand. All of us probably do something pretty similar, right? You get up in the morning, roll out of bed, take a shower, come out of the shower, and you're drying off and you probably got a mirror in the bathroom and out of the corner of your eye, you probably see on your naked body a lump or a bump that you are not happy with. It doesn't matter if you're a big person or a small body person. We all see this stuff, right? And then what's the thing you do? You go cur you curse. Like, ugh, I don't wanna see that. Then the next thing you do is what? Step on the bathroom scale. And that number that comes up isn't the one that you are hoping for you to curse again, all right?

    Dr. William Li (28:38):

    First thing in the morning, you've cursed yourself twice, right? And if this sounds like a familiar story, and I'm exaggerating a little bit, but I think most people resonate with it. 'cause I do the same thing. I used to do the same thing. We kind of associate our weight with our health. We associate body fat with something very negative. And we always talk about negativity and body fat. Look, we're, so, it's maybe part of our human nature. I don't care if you're a vegan or not, but if you actually go to a grocery store and you're wheeling, you're pushing your cart around and you're gonna be pushing it by the meat section, a butcher section, and you see that gigantic t-bone steak that's got like a thick rind of white fat around it. I don't care if you're like a, if you're, if you're like the, the biggest meat eater in town, everyone goes, Ugh, I hope nobody eats that.

    Dr. William Li (29:25):

    Right? So we're conditioned to think about body fat and the word fat in very negative ways. But what I wanna tell people in their middle age is that we don't always think about it, we don't always think about fat negatively. There's one situation I can tell you, everyone sees fat and smiles and you know what that circumstance is? That's when we see a baby or we see a pudgy baby. Mm-Hmm, you know, newborn, 1-year-old, big fat cheeks, double chin, rollie, polly tummy, <laugh>, you know, big fat arms and legs. You're smiling right now, right? I'm, I'm not smiling saying it, right? We, that's one situation in which fat makes us feel happy. So think about what that means. Somewhere in our brain, we recognize that body fat is actually a good thing. In fact, if you saw a baby that was long and thin, like a fashion model, like a runway model with thin thighs and thin arms, like, like sharp chiseled cheekbones, <laugh>, you'd be freaked out.

    Dr. William Li (30:22):

    You'd be freaked out, right? You go, you would, you would, you would run the other way. You would say, there is something seriously wrong with that baby, and you'd be completely right. Okay? So to understand body fat and metabolism and hormones in middle age, it's really helpful to do, to go, go way back and realize what body fat does for us when we're younger. Now, a lot of people don't know this, but our body fat and our hormones are really tightly interconnected. And our body fat and our health meaning good health, beneficial health, are tight, tightly, tightly tied together. All right? Now I gotta explain this. Most people don't know this, but if you go back, Dr. Duston back to med school, you remember we were sitting in embryology class and they were teaching us about how humans from dad sperm meets, meets mom egg, mom's egg and AEB of cells.

    Dr. William Li (31:13):

    And we had to memorize all the things that actually happened. Well, when the organs form, all right, one of the first organs that form are blood vessels. And that makes sense because every organ's gonna need blood flow to remain alive. The next tissue that really forms are nerves. 'cause That's the electrical system of the house of your body. And we all need electrical wires to power up our organs. All right? A third tissue organ that forms is body fat. Body fat is one of the early first organs that form. And by the way, at this point in our lives, we don't have waste lines. We don't actually have chins yet. We're still kind of forming our overall shape as humans. And you know where the body fat forms is as a ring around blood vessels. So when body fat starts forming, it forms as a cushion around our blood vessels.

    Dr. William Li (32:07):

    And you go, why would that be? Why is body fat forming on blood vessels? Well, it turns out, and we now know this, that our body fat, which is sometimes called adipocytes, adipocytes, adipose tissue, so we know, call fat tissue, these adipocytes the cells of fat around are living around blood vessels because each of these fat cells, adipocytes, are actually fuel tanks for the energy that we need to run our body. And where does the fuel get loaded? Into the fuel tank from our blood vessels? Because the food that we eat goes into the fuel, goes into the blood vessel, and the blood vessel loads them into the storage tank, which is our fat cells. And that's why fat starts forming around the blood vessel. So all around our blood vessels, all throughout our body, there's fat that actually starts forming. Now obviously the fat forms elsewhere as well, but it shows you just how important body fat is.

    Dr. William Li (32:58):

    Now, later in life, as we develop as teenagers, I mean, look, little boys and girls, five year olds, seven year olds, pretty much they look all the same, right? They're, they, they have the same body type, but later during adolescence, puberty, hips form, breast form, chests form, you know, facial features start reforming as well. That's where the future adult us begins. We start to look like the future adult who we're gonna be. And our body composition changes and fat starts moving in different places to where it needs to go. And we've got three kinds of fat that form, all right? And I'm telling you this because people who are middle age need to understand fat didn't form because you had too much to eat over Thanksgiving dinner, okay? Or that you went to that restaurant and you had, you know, you had too much on your plate.

    Dr. William Li (33:43):

    This is actually fat that is healthy fat. I'm talking about three types of fat that form, even when we're young teenagers and into young adults, you know, kind of the best shape of our lives. We've got subcutaneous fat that's under the skin sub under cutaneous skin fat. That's kinda like a wetsuit that protects us, that's healthy, helps to shape us. Then you've got visceral fat, which is gut fat, visceral meaning gut packed inside the tube of our body. So if you think about it, you could have a thin tube or you could have a big tube. People with large bodies have big tubes, but even people who are thin, who are thin, have thin tubes. And when, and the visceral fat can, it grows inside the middle of the tube of the body, you can't see in the mirror. All right?

    Dr. William Li (34:28):

    It's not the muffin top, it's not the double chin. It doesn't wobble under your arm. It's deep inside your gut. All right? And you need some of that. And then there's brown fat. And this is something that I think is really interesting is that brown fat, which we used to only think was in animals and babies, is a thin layer of fat. We're not talking about wiggly jiggly wobbly fat. That's not under your arms. Brown fat is quite different. It's paper thin, wafer thin, and it's pressed not close to the skin, but close to the bone deep in our tissues. We got some of it behind our breast bone. We got some of it around our neck. We got some of it a little bit in our belly, some of it behind between our shoulder blades. Brown fat is like an engine, like the stove top in your kitchen that uses gas.

    Dr. William Li (35:16):

    You want to blow some water. What do you do? You turn the crank, it goes click, click, click, click whoosh, you get the flame going on. That's what brown fat does. Brown fat metabolically whooshes fires up to create heat, right? For our body, and it draws that energy from our white fat, starting with a visceral fat, which so that you, so we, our fat controls fat. Now what happens? And there's all kinds of hormones that a fat is normally producing. This fat, healthy fat produces at least 15 different kinds of hormones. Adiponectin is one, is one that even helps our body absorb insulin and, and helps us release insulin and draw in our glucose so we have energy. So I'm bringing this up because people complain about not having enough energy. All adiponectin gives us our energy because it takes the food that we're eating and stores that energy into our fat cells.

    Dr. William Li (36:09):

    All right? And then we burn off that fat cell when we move around, and that's what gives us energy in our brain, in our muscles, everything. Okay? Now what happens is that if you actually overload the body's fat stores, if you overeat, you put too much fuel in your body, your body, like unlike a car where if you put too much fuel and it just splashes right out of the fuel tank, what does it do? Run down the side of your car, around the tires, and pool around your shoes. Now you're standing in a dangerous, toxic, flammable mess, right? In a gas station in your body, if we actually overload fuel, okay? By overeating, we just make more fuel tanks, those fuel tanks being fat cells. And so we, the more we eat, the more fuel we store, the more fuel we store, the more fuel tanks we need, the more body fat we need to make.

    Dr. William Li (36:54):

    And that's really why over consumption of food, good or bad actually will lead to more body fat being created. And the body fat that gets created, you can see it in the mirror, okay? Those are the lumpy, bumpy things, or they can actually grow in the center of your body around visceral fat. This is the fat that wraps around all your organs, because when you overeat and you have too much fuel and you've got too much fat wrapped on your organs, that fat becomes starved of oxygen. It becomes inflamed. It's like a forest fire that gets ignited inside your belly, you can't even see it. It's steep inside. And that inflammation rushes out throughout your body. And what it, one thing it does is it inflames fat upsets the, it derails the hormones like the fat hormones, like adipokines adiponectin. When that hormone gets derailed, you can't use it, you can't absorb your fuel.

    Dr. William Li (37:48):

    Well, and guess what? Now even though you have, you're loaded with a lot of fuel, you're not using a lot of fuel, you are tired, you're fatigued. So gaining too much weight leads to fatigue, inflammation accompanies it. All right? So overeating is one of these things that we need to really be careful about. Now, the other thing that happens in middle age, people go, oh, my metabolism's gonna slow down. There's something I can do about it. It's my fate, right? And indeed, people's bodies change. Women and men, but especially women, I think they notice it a lot more when your body shape changes, when you hit your mid forties and into your fifties you know, I don't know what I can do and I'm looking just like my mom did. All right? So the fact of the matter, it used to say, I've gained too much weight because my metabolism has slowed down.

    Dr. William Li (38:31):

    Nothing I can do about it. Right? Wrong. We used to think slow metabolism causes excess body fat, but in fact, it's the other way around. Too much body fat slows down your metabolism. And we know this from a seminal research study that was conducted just in 2021, published in the Journal of Science, one of the most credible journals in the world, where they found that all humans only undergo four phases of metabolism in their life and in the middle phase of metabolism. All right? So when you're born, everyone's born with the same metabolism. One year old, it shoots straight up from one 8-year-old to 20 years old. Your metabolism comes down to adult level. And then from 20 to 60, this is exactly where middle age occurs. 40, 45, 50, 55. Human metabolism is designed to be rock stable. It is not hardwired to go down. We are not programmed from birth to have a slow metabolism.

    Dr. William Li (39:28):

    We hit our middle age. And so anybody listening to this, you gotta realize everything that we thought has just been the story has been changed because we now realize that we are, our bodies are hardwired. It's our birthright to have a normal stable metabolism in middle age only at age 60, 60 to 90 slows down a little bit, okay? But not huge. It slows down a little bit. Now, what happens is that if you gain extra body fat, if you have extra fuel consumed, all right, and you're not moving, and that extra fat causes the inflammation disrupts the hormones, the fat hormones we're talking about here, you know, dip, pectin, ghrelin, I mean, these are all kinds of lectin. These are all hormones that are affected by, that are needed and healthy for us when we have the right amount of body fat and energy.

    Dr. William Li (40:14):

    But when we have too much of it, not only does that slow down our metabolism, but the excess inflammatory fat derails our hormones. When you derail these hormones, it's literally taking a train, okay? And just chucking it off the rails. Now it all, all heck breaks loose. And now you don't know if you're hungry or not hungry. Well, maybe I'll just eat some more. No, you know, you're eating more food now, you're eating more fuel. It's making everything worse. And then it, and the excess body fat slows down your metabolism. So the explanation for people who are middle reaching, middle age to say, I'm fatigued. I'm gaining weight. I don't know what to do, I don't think I have a choice. One of the things that modern research is showing us is that number one, you can actually try to restore your body's metabolic setpoint.

    Dr. William Li (41:01):

    It might take time to do it, but one thing to do is actually to burn down excess body fat. And to do that, you want to eat less e even intermittently fast and be a good way of doing it. Second, you wanna eat good quality food. 'cause You don't wanna be eating food that's just gonna blow up that inflammatory fat. You wanna eat good quality food, less of it, stay away from the ultra processed stuff, the added sugars, the added, you know, carbs. Then what you wanna do is exercise. You wanna stay physically active. You know, a body in motion stays in motion as the old law of thermodynamics or physics. And so you wanna actually stay in motion walking exercising. You don't need a trainer. You just need to stay active. You're gonna be burning down some of that extra fuel. You need good quality sLip because our metabolism burns down extra fuel when we're in REM sLip. Good quality sLip. All right? Now, why, by the way, why is all this not happening to us? Why is it so difficult to do this when we are in our mid forties, for women watching this? Think about it, how complicated our lives are at middle age when you are 20. You know, you might be struggling with various things, ideas, but you might have seen something like a mountain, but really a mold hill compared to what you're dealing with in your 40 bucks, all right? Yes.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (42:15):


    Dr. William Li (42:16):

    Okay. So back then you were working out, you were looking good, you were fitting into whatever clothes you wanted, and you had plenty of energy and you know, you could do whatever you wanted and you didn't seem to gain weight, but you're active, all right? Now, fast forward the decades, and now you're in your mid forties. We got so much going on, all right? And I'm just trying to talk to people like, you know, who are listening, like, like real people, right? I mean, look, you got your spouse to worry about. You got stressors with your family life. You got your kids to worry about, you got your mortgage, you got your job to worry about, your boss worried. You get your car payments. And then, oh, by the way, if you follow anything in the news, we're worried about the election, worried about the war, worried about, you know, what kind of sickness is going on.

    Dr. William Li (42:58):

    Look, there's a lot of stressors going on, okay? And those stressors make it really hard for us to focus on making good decisions about the food. We choose quality food. Those distractions make it very difficult to eat smaller quantities, smaller portions. In fact, they're so distressed, so stressed out, we eat a lot. Those distractions make it hard to exercise and stay active. Those stresses prevent us from getting good quality sLip, which interferes with metabolism. So it's not that our fate is hardwired in our body, and when you hit 45, that's it, baby, you're screwed. No, the reality is that we got a lot going on. So we have to sort of tease apart some of the things that are gone and start to just calm down a little bit and make the, some of the good decisions, starting one by one that can help our body reset to the metabolism, to the fat, to the hormonal interactions that our body needs to give us energy, to give us the shape that we want to have, and to be able to allow us to live and thrive as we get older.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (44:01):

    Yes, thank you for that very comprehensive, detailed explanation. I think everybody probably got a lot out of that. And really the way you're describing it is that the communication has completely gone offline because of your current metabolic condition. And there are things that you can do to restore proper communication, right? I always say hormones are the communicators and you can get them reestablished. I loved inter, I love intermittent fasting and exercise and many of the other things that you've shared. Thank you so much for sharing this wisdom with everyone. You make it sound very approachable and doable by almost anyone, which it is. And so I love that. We'll definitely have links to your books in the show notes. You have a wonderful Dr. Li's Friday five handout, which we'll have a link to in the show notes. You wanna tell them a little bit about that and where else they can find you online?

    Dr. William Li (44:59):

    Yeah. Well, listen, my mission is to get good information about people's bodies and how food interacts with them in a joyful way. That's my mission, is to really impact as many lives as possible. So I have a website, Dr DR William Li l i.com. Please come to visit my website, take a look at the information that's on it. My books Eat to Beat Disease. You can buy them anywhere books are sold. You can order them online very, very easily. I do courses, I have online courses you can find on my website. I run them every month. And this is a deep dive into your body and the foods that can activate your body in ways that are delicious and effective so that you don't have to fear your food. You can love your food and love your health at the same time. And I'm, and I put out newsletters.

    Dr. William Li (45:44):

    These are free newsletters that you, or just contain facts and information. And you know, I'm inundated with information all the time. I just wanna get, I wanna do the heavy lifting for the public. For you guys who are listening, I'll, I'll try to, you know, bury the stuff that's BS and I'll try to surface the stuff that's really useful that you should know. The difference between medical research involving drug development and biotech and pharmaceuticals is that, you know, even if you hear about that stuff, you can't do anything about it. Most of the people in the public, but if you, for food is medicine research, when there's something important there is immediacy. I told you that eating, you might be surprised. Soy foods, like at a Mame or tofu can lower the risk of breast cancer, or tomatoes can lower the risk of prostate cancer if you're a man. Hey, guess what? That is something that after you hear that you can make a decision right away lickety split to add something good to your health. And so please know, I welcome people to my community. I've been teaching these online courses. We've got thousands of people from more than 80 countries that have taken my course. And so I, I just love the idea of trying to create as much impact as possible. And thank you for having me on. Well, thank

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (46:58):

    Thank you for being here, and thank you for listening to another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. I know you have loved today's episode. I know you're gonna add strawberries to your diet. I know you're gonna add tomatoes. I know you're gonna look at Dr. Li's books and read them and get some powerful information. Maybe join one of his courses. And really, your most powerful tool when it comes to your health and your hormones is the food that you put in your mouth. I cannot say that you literally are what you eat. Your hormones are what you eat, you are what you eat. So this is the most powerful tool that you have at your disposal to make powerful changes in your health for this year. Like I said, 2024 is the year of self-love. So do it right, make it an action. It is a verb. Take the actions that will get you where you want to be. Thanks so much for joining us, and until next week, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (48:00):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

    ► Get Dr. Li's Friday 5! Top science-backed recommendations, including healing foods, studies, podcasts, supplements, and more. Sign up now to get this FREE newsletter weekly. CLICK HERE.

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  • Welcome to another empowering episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, where we explore the intricate dance of hormones and health, specifically crafted for the vibrant midlife woman.

    Today, we're honored to have the remarkable Dr. Akil Palanisamy, join us to unravel the mysteries of autoimmunity and health dysfunction through the lens of integrative and Ayurvedic medicine. Get cozy and ready to be inspired by a Harvard-educated expert who takes a deeply compassionate and holistic approach to healing.

    Episode Highlights:

    Introduction to Dr. Akil Palanisamy: Discover the fascinating path that led Dr. Aki, a Harvard grad and a mind-body medicine-certified physician, to the forefront of integrative health.The TIGER Protocol Explained: Learn about the groundbreaking TIGER Protocol that Dr. Aki has pioneered, offering hope and healing to those suffering from autoimmune disorders.Integrative Medicine and Ayurveda: Delve into a unique conversation on blending modern medical practices with ancient Ayurvedic wisdom.Real-life Success Stories: Hear uplifting stories of resilience and recovery, showcasing the transformational impact of Dr. Aki's approach.Practical Tips for Midlife Wellness: Arm yourself with actionable advice and wellness strategies tailored for the midlife transition, ensuring you live your healthiest, most hormonal-balanced life.

    Inspirational Takeaway:

    Dr. Akil's expertise isn't just in his impressive credentials; it lies in his ability to see the patient as a whole. His methods are a testament to the power of integrative medicine - providing a beacon of light for anyone navigating the murky waters of hormonal health and autoimmunity.

    Tune in now to begin your own healing odyssey with the wisdom and warmth of Dr. Akil guiding the way. This episode is not just about listening; it's about awakening to the possibilities of true health renewal.

    Listen, Learn, and Thrive:

    Your body's plea for harmony between your hormones and health has been heard. Dr. Akil's knowledge and the TIGER Protocol could be the key to unlocking your body's fullest potential.

    Don't miss this life-altering conversation. Tune in, tap into your innate healing power, and take charge of your well-being. Your miraculous body awaits.

    Subscribe and Listen Now!

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

    There is no greater thing you can do with your life and your work than follow your passions in a way that serves the world. And you, Dr. Akil , stay tuned to find out how to reverse the root causes of your autoimmunity and health concerns so that you too can follow your passion.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:20):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYNI had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results, and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dundton. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (01:14):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive into the topic of autoimmunity with Dr. Akil, who is a very accomplished physician who had his own healing journey during medical school that led him to a root cause resolution approach. He focuses on autoimmunity and helping people reverse it naturally. You're gonna hear some of his case studies of how he helped someone reverse Hashimoto thyroiditis, probably the most common autoimmune disease that disproportionately affects women as opposed to men and causes a lot of suffering, and how he helped her transform to not having Hashimoto's. Yes, it's possible despite what you might have heard, and you're going to hear just lots about what are the steps you need to take from his tiger protocol that he's developed. It applies to everyone, not just those of you with autoimmunity.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (02:14):

    So I hope you will give a listen and take notes and check out his book. We've got a link to get a per an excerpt from it in the show notes and talk a little bit about this quote that I shared with you at the beginning about living your passion. He shares what that means to him and how that informs his daily life and activities that I think you'll really love. So I'll tell you a little bit about him and then we'll get started. After working with patients in his two decades of practice, Harvard trained Dr. Aki Palani me was inspired to develop the tiger T-I-G-E-R protocol, an integrative treatment approach. Combining his work as a functional medicine practitioner with his training in Ayurvedic medicine, he has since used his simple protocol to successfully treat thousands of patients with autoimmune diseases. The protocol works to address the root cause of your autoimmunity instead of just treating the symptoms by suppressing your immune system. And that's what mainstream medicine does. It's a revolutionary transformative approach that can help you transform your health and your life as well. Please help me welcome Dr. Akil to the show.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (03:26):

    Thank you so much Dr. Dunston, for having me on.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:29):

    So excited to talk with you about the tiger protocol. I always like to start because people love to hear how traditionally trained doctors like you and me. Yes. Arrived, became enlightened and <laugh> became enlightened, saw the truth, the angels sang, we saw a better way. We really started people healing and doing things like reversing autoimmune disease. And so could you share a little bit about your journey from traditional mainstream medicine to a more root cause approach?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (04:03):

    Yeah. It actually began in medical school for me when I developed a mystery illness during my second year of medical school. You know, I was actually very conventionally thinking, very conventionally trained, didn't have a real awareness of integrative medicine, but I had kind of this mystery illness with chronic pain and fatigue, and it, it was so bad that I couldn't sit up in a chair and I had to actually take a year off for medical school to try to recover. And it was that time that I started exploring integrative medicine and complementary therapies, and that was the first thing that really helped me after a few years of conventional medicine. So that helped me during my year off to return to really optimal health. And I realized that I needed to learn this stuff so I could help my future patients with it.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (04:52):

    And so could you share a little bit about what you went through with that mystery illness and what you discovered Yes. That it was causing it?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (05:02):

    Yeah. So the symptoms were, you know, started with fatigue and then I developed a lot of musculoskeletal issues like neck pain, back pain. You know, I couldn't sit up in a chair, and so I couldn't attend class, and I was doing all the conventional treatment, you know, physical therapy, anti-inflammatories and so forth. But it was only when I saw an Ayurvedic doctor, which is Ayurveda as a traditional medicine from India, that she told me I have a specific imbalance of a dosha, which is one of the Ayurvedic principles. And that actually tied together all my symptoms that I was having. Whereas in Western medicine, there was no diagnosis and never was, because there's no clear diagnosis that ties together all those symptoms. But when she started treating me with an auric diet and, you know, lifestyle and spices and herbs and a whole program, you know, lifestyle program as well, then that was the beginning of recovering my health.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (06:02):

    Wow. I mean, I'm sorry that you went through that and it, you know, I I always say pain becomes your purpose, and it's only through pain, unfortunately, sometimes that we learn the truth if we're willing to lean into it and not just snuff it out. I always say that Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> yes. Symptoms that our body has is, you know, she's this beautiful vehicle that we have. She only has so many ways that she can let you know what she's needing and wanting and what's out of balance. And she's always talking to us. So a headache is not, she's not saying I need Tylenol, is that's not what a headache means. And <laugh>, you know, if your tummy gets upset every time you eat, it's not, oh, I need something to stop my gut from being able to contract like an antispasmodic. And so right, everybody listening, I really encourage you to start learning the language of your body and understand what she's saying to you so you can get to the root cause and get out of the leaves and branches of the tree and stop medicating with drugs and surgery. So thank you so much for sharing that. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. So I, let's dive into your book on the Tiger protocol you've developed. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, a very specific detailed root cause protocol to help people with autoimmune disease. Was autoimmunity at all a part of the illness that you were suffering from?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (07:29):

    No, fortunately but you know, over the years, in the past 25 years I've been practicing, I've just started seeing more and more autoimmune patients and wondering, you know, why there is such an increase in autoimmune disease. So it's really just organically through my own practice, I started seeing more and more autoimmune patients.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (07:51):

    So is the tiger protocol developed with, from you working with them and really seeing what was specific to their needs and situations that needed to be addressed in order for healing to occur?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (08:03):

    Yes, exactly. And, you know, with these same five root causes, the more I researched, the more I found that it, they're actually driving most of our modern chronic diseases, you know, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, which is still the biggest killer of, of most men and women, obesity and also disrupting hormones. Because I, in my practice, I do work a lot with female hormones in, in women. And so I found that, you know, these five root causes not only affect autoimmunity, but all these other chronic conditions and hormones especially.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (08:36):

    Right. And I would love it if you could comment on the fact that women suffer with autoimmune immune disease way more than men. We are disproportionately represented with autoimmune disease. And why do you think that is?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (08:50):

    Yeah, I think it's probably several reasons. So, you know, as we're going to go through the tiger protocol, we can see that toxins affect women more than men because of, for example, xenoestrogens, which we can get into. Same thing with the, with the gut. You know, a lot of the gut bacteria have a big effect on estrogen, which we can discuss. And that, you know, the key role there. And then with stress the, the R part, you know, rest and managing stress, I think that is also very fundamental in terms of its effect on multiple hormones. And I think, you know, we need more research to confirm this, but I think that because women are more complex in terms of their hormone chemistry, that more of these factors in our modern life are attacking and disrupting more and more of their hormones than in men. And I think that's one of the reasons autoimmunity is more common in women.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (09:48):

    Yeah, I would agree. I really think it boils down to, down to hormones, <laugh>, and that's foundationally what makes a woman different from a man. And so that's what puts us at risk for so many of these problems. So let's jump into the tiger protocol. I know that each letter stands for an issue that needs to be addressed. So if you just wanna start at the beginning, we can dive right into it. And I wanna just tell everybody listening, don't discount what we're gonna talk about and say, I don't have an autoimmune problem, this, they're not talking to me. Everything that Dr. Akil is talking about and details in his book, actually is an issue that every woman at midlife, early life, later life, needs to address to address the root causes of any dysfunction that she is suffering from. These are really the root causes of all health problems.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (10:46):

    Whatever your diagnosis, whatever your symptoms. So if you think about your health like a tree, the symptoms and diagnoses you may have are up in the leaves and branches, and that's where mainstream medicine works. You go to the gastroenterologist for a gut problem, and you might get a drug or surgery for that problem. You go to the gynecologist for a female period problem, and you might get a drug or surgery for that problem. But where we're dealing with is we're going down the trunk of the tree into the roots of the tree in the dirt, and dealing with the root causes of all your leaf and branch problems. So everything we're gonna talk about applies to everyone. So I just wanna give that caveat. So without further ado, let's dive into the tea in tiger.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (11:32):

    Yes, sounds good. Yeah. So the tea stands for toxins, which are environmental toxins that are present in our food, water, air, you know, that all of us are exposed to. And when I was researching toxins, I found a class of toxins called obesogens, which are known to promote obesity. So these are things that disrupt our metabolic signaling, you know, the intricate hormones like leptin and ghrelin that regulate appetite and satiety. So many of these toxins the broader category is called EDCs or endocrine disrupting compounds. So they disrupt our endocrine system, which is the hormone system that we've been, we've been talking about. So for my women who are really struggling to lose weight I feel like that's one of the missing pieces of the puzzle is addressing these obesogens, you know, helping clear out those toxins that are promoting obesity.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (12:26):

    So that's, I think, a really key factor. Also, in toxins, there are ens. So these are toxins that promote insulin resistance and raise your blood sugar, again, a key cause of our diabetes epidemic. It's not just obesity. There's also a key factor of toxins that are disrupting your insulin and disrupting your blood sugar regulation. And we have to really address those as well. And then specifically for women, I talked about xenoestrogens. So these are compounds in our, you know, fragrances, pesticides, other chemicals. We put our body widely present in plastics, for example. And these are artificially created compounds that mimic estrogen. And so they're absorbed by the body. They disrupt the estrogen signaling and lead to, you know, a host of issues. So I, and of course, autoimmunity, which is the fastest growing category of disease, is included as well. That's what I focus on. But in my research, I found these toxins affect so many other key conditions like obesity, diabetes, heart disease, as well as just general inflammation in the body. So that's why I believe that's why I put the T first. 'cause I think toxins are really fundamental and maybe the first thing to be addressed.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (13:47):

    Yeah, I totally agree. And, you know, I just wanna tell a little personal anecdote. So I really, uhhuh, the biggest thing I think people can do in this area to start reducing their toxic load is to stop using artificial petrochemical fragrances all over your body and in your house. Just stop <laugh>. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. Yes. And really there isn't an awareness of the dangers of these artificially scented products in the environment. So I, every, a lot of people know I've been traveling for 18 months globally, and I've had a lot of experiences where I go into new homes and stay in new homes. And there are plugins and scented candles and sprays and all the things that people use 'cause they like the way it smells. They use it on their dryer sheets with their towels and the sheets smell like perfume. And my body.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (14:40):

    I say that I'm a human chemical detector because of various circumstances I've encountered throughout my life where I was actually made sick by a building. Now I'm a human chemical detector. So I walk in and before I even smell it, my body tells me that it's there. Mm. And so I've had the opportunity to talk with people about, and try to educate them about the dangers of these, they're carcinogenic as well as contributing to health problems. And it's interesting how many people are very resistant to this information, not knowledgeable. And I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on that, or, and I know you've got way more details in the book, but what would you say is the number one thing that people can do to start reducing their toxic load?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (15:24):

    Yes, I think that it, you know, it always starts with diet because I believe food is really fundamental. So I think, you know, trying to choose organic, so you're limiting the pesticide exposure. And then you don't have to have everything organic. You know, you can go with the environmental working group, which publishes a list called the Dirty Dozen, which is the 12 fruits and vegetables that are highest in pesticide, where you should try to get organic. And then they also publish the clean 15, which is the 15 that are pretty low and can be non-organic if possible. So I think that's a great way to start. And then to boost the detox pathways, I really like the cruciferous vegetables, all the, you know, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, those are, are very powerful. And then I think sweating like a sauna or steam room is really underutilized because there is very good research on sweating and how it excretes toxins through the skin, which is a really great way to, to help detox and keep the toxic level low.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (16:26):

    Yes. Those are great suggestions. And how does this relate to hormones? 'cause We always try to tie everything to hormones.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (16:34):

    Yes. So mainly in that, you know, all of these things that we've been talking about as toxins, like the endocrine disrupting compounds, the obesogens, the ens Z estrogens, all of them are disrupting this delicate balance that in women is critical, you know, because I always tell women it's like a symphony, you know, with all the female hormones that every piece is critical. And there's many different components that have to be in sync to, to make the perfect music, you know, the optimal health. And all of these toxins are disrupting that symphony. So that's why it's so important to address, you know, reducing the exposure and also boosting things to detoxify so you can have a, you know, better symphony and better music in the end.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (17:18):

    Right? Yeah. A lot of these toxins actually stimulate those hormone receptors in negative ways. They sit right on the receptor and really confuse your body. Yes. So super important. So that's the T in tiger. And then what is the, I,

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (17:33):

    So I refer to infections, and this is a broad category. There's many different types like a bacterial, viral, fungal and, and so forth. And there's many ways that infections disrupt hormones. One of the ways is by causing elevated cortisol, which is one of the stress hormones because of infection. I'm not talking about acute infection things like, you know, flu or you're down with a cold and you, you're really sick. I'm talking more about low grade chronic infections, which can be detected by an integrative medicine doctor. And those can slowly cause stress on the body. And any stress on the body raises cortisol. And that has a variety of negative effects, which we can talk about when we talk about stress, which also raises cortisol. But I think that, yeah, infections can really disrupt the hormones by raising cortisol. And then, for example, another example would be candida, the yeast overgrowth. So candida often is an issue that is, you know, overgrown and surprisingly has really negative effects on hormone balance. When you have the overgrowth of candida, it actually breaks down progesterone and contributes to estrogen dominance. This is, you know, air emerging research. But a lot of these infections are starting to be studied for their negative effect on hormones.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (19:03):

    Yeah. So these chronic infections like candida, Epstein Barr virus Yes. Just dysbiosis in the gut where you don't have enough healthy bacteria and it's kind of skewed towards some of these less healthy ones. I, I think it's important 'cause some people listening are gonna say, great, I get it, Dr. Akil , I need to address toxins, infections, and all the other things we're gonna talk about. And they're gonna run to their $30 HMO copay doctor. And they're gonna say, right, well, I've heard Dr. Akil on Dr. Kieran's podcast, and I want you to check me for these infections that are contributing to my autoimmune disease and MIT toxins, and I want you to help me with that. And what's gonna happen, <laugh>.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (19:45):

    Yes. Yeah, no, exactly. I think it's you know, it's variable in terms of how much a typical conventional doctor will do or, or test. But I think that the good thing is what I focus on is really teaching people tools they can use at home on their own with, you know, diet and, and lifestyle. And, and with the topic of infections, my focus in the book is teaching people how to make your body inhospitable to infections, because then you can actually let your immune system work better to take care of whatever's there. So you don't have to do, you know, all of these tests. So there are ways to focus more on the terrain, the inner environment of the body to make it less hospitable to infections. And I think that's more of a root cause approach.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (20:32):

    Yeah, I agree. But I just don't want anyone listening to think that the average doctor with the education that we initially had is gonna be able to help them. So this is where your book comes into play. So yes, in, you know, I know this might be really inappropriate, but I met a woman when I was traveling and her name was Candida, and it just stuck in my head. 'cause When I met her, I thought, I wonder if she's had problems with having that name. Because I think of one thing when I hear candida and it's chronic infection, <laugh>. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> that actually, and you know, the, as a gynecologist, what would we do if someone said that they thought they had a yeast infection? We do a wet mount and look for yeast or candida in the vagina. But I always like to say to people that if you have chronic candida, it might not be on, I say it lives in your gut and it goes on vacation in your vagina. So, right. You know, if you get chronic candida infections, that means you've got a reservoir in your gut of where it's really living that's chronic. So that's what you gotta look at. Alright, so that's the T and then the I and tiger. And then how, what do we get with the G?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (21:42):

    Yeah, the gut is really critical. And the microbiome refers to all of the 40 trillion bacteria in the gut that have a really big effect on every organ system in the body. Pretty much if you name a, a part of the body, it's affected by the gut and the hormones are, are no exceptions. So I'll just pick three to focus on in terms of hormones and good gut. So first is the thyroid. So the very important gland that regulates your metabolism energy and so forth. And one of the key ways that the thyroid hormone in the body works is there's a conversion that needs to occur from what's called T four to T three, basically some of the, the active hormones. And about a quarter of that conversion happens in the gut microbiome. So if you're not having a good balance of bacteria, then your production of the active thyroid hormone is really gonna be limited.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (22:35):

    And that's a, that's gonna affect energy and weight and all of these things. So that is number one, the thyroid. Number two is melatonin. So we know this is important for sleep. And melatonin is produced from one of the precursors called serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter or a signaling compound. And actually about 80% of the body's serotonin is made in the gut, which then gets processed, you know, into melatonin and so forth. So all of these neurotransmitters which affect the brain, a lot of them are made in the gut. And that's what we call the gut brain axis. And then finally, I'll mention estrogen because there's a huge role of the gut bacteria, what's called the estrobolome, which are the bacteria that process and metabolize estrogens. And one of the key things, it's a little bit technical, but just bear with me here. It's called beta glucuronidase.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (23:30):

    So this is an enzyme that your gut bacteria have. And with, you know, with estrogen, it has to be just the optimal level, not too much or not too little. And the body has a system called estrogen recycling to kind of regulate that, which goes through the gut. And the beta glucuronidase, which is in certain bacteria, actually disrupts that. So the beta glucuronidase is an enzyme that de conjugates estrogen that is in the gut that's marked for excretion, you know, supposed to be flushed out of the body through the, the poop, and it allows it to be reabsorbed into the circulation. And then you can get, you know, estrogen dominance or too much estrogen. And that balance of recycling estrogen is disrupted by the gut bacteria. So again, if you have the, you know, imbalance of gut bacteria, it's going to be affecting not just estrogen balance, but your thyroid, your, you know, melatonin, you so many, so many things. So I think the gut is really foundational.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (24:30):

    Yes. So what do you say to someone listening who says, I don't have a gut problem, and they immediately shut down? Yes. And don't, I'm not gonna listen to this. My gut is like, works like magic. I poop every day. It's quiet. I don't have any symptoms. I don't have a gut problem. So then you say, improve your gut health. And what do you say to that woman who tells you, no, I, I don't need to look at that. I don't have a gut problem.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (24:56):

    Yes. And a lot of women I see in my practice are in that category. You know, fortunately they don't have GI symptoms, generally have good gut health and don't really expect to have any GI imbalances. But I always test their microbiome. You know, I always look in there and pretty much most of the time we find imbalances. And, and often, you know, the body is very resilient, so it's able to adapt and overcome a lot of imbalances and, you know, prevent you from feeling bad. But it doesn't mean those imbalances aren't there. And so what I found in my experience, when we start looking, there are imbalances, for example, in the, you know, the bacteria or the beta glucuronidase or some of those things. So that's why it's key, even if you are healthy without GI symptoms, to really focus on trying to boost your gut bacteria and really make sure they're optimal.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (25:48):

    So I love how you said that you test everyone, right? And I do too. I say, even if you don't think you have a gut problem, you need a functional stool test, food sensitivity, testing, et cetera. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So can you talk about the importance of testing for hormones, for gut health, for mitochondrial function, for all the things that you think it's important for?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (26:10):

    There is a way, like for my patients who cannot afford functional medicine stool testing, there is a way through a regular lab to get an indirect measurement of the microbiome. So I do order this a lot. It's called a stool pH test. And it can be done through any traditional lab, you know, LabCorp quest, any lab in the us. And what a stool pH tells you is that it's an indirect marker of your gut microbiome, because the main determinant of that is your gut bacteria and specifically certain metabolites they produce called the short chain fatty acids. So if they're producing the right compounds, your pH will be really good. And that is a great way to gauge, you know, indirectly how the microbiome is doing. And then all of the things that I talk about in the book, like the prebiotic foods, fermented foods, certain specific types of fiber, all of those things can improve the stool pH.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (27:07):

    And then also the stool pH is a key factor for your immune health for reducing infections. You know, for example, candida can only overgrow if your pH is out of balance in the stool, in the gut. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. And same with a lot of bad bacteria. That's one of the ways your body keeps those bad bugs in check is by keeping the pH in a really optimal range. So that's a great way to test. And so I think for pa patients who don't have access to a functional doctor, that is something you can get through a regular lab. It's a standard test.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (27:38):

    Okay. Awesome. Love that. And let's go through E and R and then as we do, I would love it if you could just incorporate any examples of patients that you have worked with who maybe were suffering with the E or the R in particular. Yeah. And kind of what their journey was like to healing, but yeah, please proceed.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (27:59):

    So of course it is a big topic in terms of eating right and, you know, the diet. And so in general, yeah, I'm recommending a plant forward diet with plenty of, you know, whole foods. And so let me discuss three things which I think are negative in terms of their effect on hormones. Number one being sugar. So, so, you know, we all know that processed white sugar is inflammatory and has a really negative effect on the immune system as well as some of the metabolic hormones. And, you know, yes, occasionally like dark, dark chocolate, an occasional treat I think is fine. But in the long run, trying to cut back on sugar, I think, is really beneficial. So mainly because inflammation is at the root of all of our modern diseases and sugar has been linked to increasing inflammation in the body.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (28:49):

    And then second, I think they are processed foods. So a lot of the heavily processed and ultra processed foods that are present in our food supply right now, I think they, a lot of them have ingredients that are known to be disruptive, like preservatives, emulsifiers, artificial flavors or sweeteners. And so I think that's a category as well to, to really be mindful about. And then third, I wanted to mention dairy products because not everyone is sensitive to dairy. I think that it's important to test it out, maybe eliminate it for some time and then reintroduce, see if you notice a change. And so for women who do not have a sensitivity or allergy to dairy, this might be surprising, but from the hormone perspective, it's actually better to have full fat dairy rather than low fat. Because there was actually a study from Harvard where they looked at 18,000 women and their dairy intake pertaining to fertility.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (29:48):

    And they found that those women who had more low fat dairy products actually had worsened fertility and were more at risk for infertility. And in that case, also having full fat dairy, like normal un unprocessed dairy was associated with better fertility. And so in that study, they recommended women trying to conceive, you know, not have low fat dairy because it's actually potentially negative. And that goes back to processed foods because, you know, dairy as a whole, food does have that fat and has to go through a lot of processing to make it low fat and, you know, skim milk and all that. So if a woman tolerates dairy, I do recommend going with the whole fat and just in moderation, but avoid the low fat dairy. So yeah, those are just some, some examples. But, you know, there's so much we could talk about in terms of yes, p food, of course. Yeah.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (30:39):

    I love that study. I wasn't aware of that. And I would just encourage everyone, fat is your friend, right? All your cells are coated in fat. Your brain is fat. You need fat. And, and a lot of us in the eighties were really trained that fat was our enemy. And fat is not. It's your friend. Sugar is your enemy, but fat is

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (30:57):

    Your friend. <Laugh>. Yes, yes. Yep.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (31:00):

    And then how about the R in tiger?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (31:02):

    Yes. So the R refers to rest, which encompasses sleep, and also managing stress. And stress has so many effects on hormones. So one, one of the main ways is through cortisol, which is one of the stress hormones and chronic stress, like many of us deal with that, you know, very full busy lives. But if it's out of control it causes high levels of cortisol chronically, and that disrupts a number of the other hormones. So that will cause, for example, testosterone to drop. And even women need some testosterone, you know, for normal function also, then it disrupts the thyroid. So then you start seeing thyroid hormone dysregulated, and then chronic stress can also lower estrogen and progesterone levels. So it just is something that affects almost every hormone. And you know, of course stress disrupts blood sugar regulation as well. So insulin is another hormone.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (32:00):

    So I think it's very important. Sometimes, you know, my patients, their eyes glaze over when I talk about stress. 'cause We've all heard so much about it. But I, I tell people to think, focus on something you enjoy, whether it be going out in nature or doing some yoga or Pilates or prayer or, you know, it doesn't have to be meditating for an hour every day, but finding something that you enjoy, that you're willing to do regularly is, is the key thing. And there's a lot of different ways to accomplish that. So. Great.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (32:29):

    So there we are at the Tiger Protocol, and I would love it if you could share some stories of people you've worked with, maybe the autoimmune diseases, Hashimoto's Lupus Yes. Multiple sclerosis and what their journey has been like through this protocol.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (32:45):

    Oh, sure. Yeah. So a case comes to mind of a nurse at our local hospital. She was in her forties and dealing with Hashimoto's and thyroid condition. And a lot of the common symptoms of Hashimoto's are fatigue, weight gain, and hair loss. And then, you know, with autoimmune diseases in general, they do develop slowly. So there's a key window where integrative or preventative strategies can really help. And she was in that case where her thyroid hormone levels like TSH were just going slightly high, but not at a level like greater than 10, where her doctor was gonna put her on medication, but it was abnormal. And so her doctor told her her thyroid levels don't qualify for a medication, so there was nothing he could do. And then he said, you know, your immune system is going to destroy your thyroid, and then at that point, come back and I'll prescribe you the medication.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (33:42):

    And, you know, that didn't really sit well with my <laugh>, my patient who was used to being very proactive. So she came to our, you know, integrated medicine clinic, and she didn't want to just wait for her thyroid to fail and then get medication, you know, she wanted to do something more proactive. And in her case, we did some testing. We found that she did have IBS or irritable bowel syndrome, which had not really been addressed. And when we did some stool testing, we found she had this condition called the leaky gut, which is increased intestinal permeability, and that's a key factor in autoimmune diseases. She also had bacterial overgrowth, what we call dysbiosis. And so I put her on a gut healing program with a lot of fermented foods, bone broth, and prebiotic foods, which feed the good bacteria. And then we looked at her hormones.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (34:35):

    So commonly, like in thyroid conditions, the adrenal hormones are affected because there's a close link between the thyroid and the adrenal. And so I used certain herbs like ashwagandha, which is a, ashwagandha is a common urban Ayurveda, and used a lot to support the thyroid and adrenal. And then she started noticing some of her symptoms improving, like her fatigue, the hair loss, the IBS, you know, those, it took about, you know, three or four months because integrated medicine worked slowly, but some of those symptoms that were really bothering her had been resolved. And then after working together for about more, you know, six to seven months, we retested those Hashimoto's antibodies, the thyroid antibodies, and found they had come down into normal. So she no longer had Hashimoto's, you know, autoimmune disease. Yeah. So that was one example where, you know, just taking steps to address the root causes can, in some cases reverse the autoimmune disease and at least improve the symptoms. You know, even if it's not possible to cure the condition, people can feel normal and, you know, have a good quality of life.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (35:48):

    I, I think it's so important to highlight what you just said and the example you just gave, because people are really given this kind of death sentence by a lot of doctors because, and, and they're just telling their experience and what they've been taught that Hashimoto's, once you have it, you're always gonna have it. It's gonna destroy the thyroid. There's nothing we can do. And it's not, it's just because they don't know what's possible. But every day I see people go from very high Hashimoto's antibodies to no antibodies, right? Every day I see people go from having diabetes type two and go to not having diabetes and having optimal insulin and glucose control. And probably you do too. So I want everyone to hear that diseases can be reversed. And you didn't hear him mention any drugs in there, right. <Laugh>.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (36:45):

    Right. So

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (36:46):

    Just naturally it can happen. So thank you for that. I, I want to highlight this quote you shared with me that I love, because I think you really exemplify it. And to me, I love helping women get healthy because I want them to feel better. Yes. And function better, but I always say I'm kind of sneaky because I really want them to live their passion in life, whatever that is. Yes. And you really can't live your passion if you don't feel good. So the quote is, there is no greater thing you can do with your life and your work than follow your passions in a way that serves the world. And you, and I'm just wondering, is that a quote from you or somebody who you admire?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (37:29):

    No, I had, you know, written it down during my medical school years, you know, when I was dealing with that illness, and I was going through a lot of depression and really despair. So because I was, you know, it was my dream to become a doctor, and here I was to stop my training. And so I really had to seek out inspiration. And I don't remember where I found that quote, but that is in my journal that I've kept for many years. And yeah, that was a key part of how I think now.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (37:56):

    I love that. And how does that, what does that look like in your daily life? How does that change what you do? Or how you do what you do? What does that look like?

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (38:06):

    Yeah, I think for me, you know, really like teaching is my passion. And I think a lot of medicine, as you know, is really teaching and, you know, sharing with our patients. But I really wanted to do more teaching. So you know, this with my second book, the Tiger Protocol, you know, getting out there, being on podcasts such as this one and, and talking to patients. I also have started doing these group visits, shared medical appointments where I also do a lot of teaching. So that for me is really something I get excited about.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:35):

    Yes. And I can't remember if it's the word physician or doctor. One of those words means teacher, and it really is <laugh>.

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (38:44):

    Yes, exactly. Doctor, I think. Yeah, yeah,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:46):

    Yeah. What we, what we are. And so I love that you are living your passion of teaching and helping others. It's my passion too. So from one person who's passionate about helping people see the truth about their health and learn the truth, and find the path towards health and wholeness and a passionate life to another, I thank you so much for joining me on the show today. I think you've offered such valuable information, and I know inspiration as well to a lot of women who are feeling hopeless, and I know they've learned something that they can implement today. I'm gonna encourage them to check out your book. I know you have a free excerpt, what we're gonna have a link in the show notes to, but tell them all the places they can connect with you online, where can they find you, and what resources you have available

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (39:37):

    Through my website, dr Akil .com. And then I am pretty active on some social media channels like Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok, as at Dr. Akil on all three of those. So,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:50):

    Great. Thank you so much for joining me today, Dr. Akil .

    Dr. Akil Palanisamy (39:54):

    Thank you so much, Dr. Dunston. I enjoyed our conversation today,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:57):

    And thank you for joining me for another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kieran. I know that you have learned something that you can put into effect in your life today. Don't wait to start moving towards greater health and wholeness for yourself. I look forward to hearing about it on social media so that you can start feeling better and then move towards living what you're passionate about in your life. Thanks so much for joining me, and I'll see you next week. Until then, peace, love, and

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (40:29):

    Hormones, y'all. Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

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  • Welcome to The Hormone Prescription Podcast, the heart-to-heart space where we unravel the tapestry of women's health! 💜 In our latest enlightening episode titled "Why Minerals are Vital to Hormonal Prosperity," we are joined by the incredibly knowledgeable Kaely McDevitt, a Registered Dietitian dedicating her life to the well-being of women.

    Key Points Discussed:

    The Mineral-Hormone Connection: Discover how minerals are the unsung heroes in the choir of hormones. 🎼 They conduct the symphony that determines your energy, fertility, and overall hormonal balance.Reclaiming Your Energy: Learn about the specific minerals that can turn the tides on fatigue and give you back your zest for life. ✨Optimizing Fertility: Kaely shares her expertise on how strategic nutrition can support reproductive health and make the dream of parenthood achievable for many. 👶Conquering Hormone Symptoms: Find out which key players in your diet can help you take control of hormone-related symptoms from PMS to menopause. 🛑Personalized Nutrition Strategies: Take a deep dove into the world of tailored nutrition and how personalization leads to health transformation.Building Health with Connection: Kaely emphasizes the importance of connecting with self, nature, and community on the road to hormonal health. 🌿

    About Kaely McDevitt:

    Kaely McDevitt is not just any dietitian; she's a trailblazer in the realm of women's health, armed with a passion for natural wellness and a deep understanding that there's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to health. 🌱 Through her virtual practice, she and her team have cultivated an oasis where women can find answers, hope, and a path to reclaim their energy and vitality.

    Why You Shouldn't Miss This Episode:

    Take command of your hormonal health by tuning into this episode. Whether you're someone battling with hormonal imbalances, searching for fertility support, or simply thirsty for knowledge on women's health nutrition, this conversation with Kaely will be a beacon of insight and inspiration. 🌟

    Step into a world where minerals and hormones dance in harmony, where personalized nutrition is the key to unlocking the mysteries of your body, and where healing comes with an empowering sense of community. This isn't just about health; it's about thriving in every sense of the word!

    Listen Now!

    Find your sweet spot in the world of health and hormones by listening to this must-hear conversation with Kaely McDevitt. Tap into the wisdom, comfort, and practical guidance that will propel you towards hormonal prosperity.

    Pour a cup of tea, find a cozy corner, and hit play! 🎧 Listen now and infuse your life with the balance and vitality it deserves.

    Sharing is caring! If this episode sparked a light in you, spread the love by sharing it with your friends, family, and community — because every woman deserves to sing a hormonal harmony. 🗣️💕

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

    You have to participate relentlessly in the manifestation of your own blessings. Elizabeth Gilbert, stay tuned as Kaely McDevitt tells you why minerals are vital to hormonal prosperity and the manifestation of your own blessing.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:18):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYN I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (01:11):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive in with Kaely McDevitt, who's a registered dietician into minerals. And I know there's the alphabet soup nutrients and it can be hard to keep track of them. And you're like ki Now you're gonna get into the real nitty gritty. Yep. We're gonna get into the nitty gritty, but she's gonna make it super simple because is hormonal balance and hormonal prosperity necessary? Absolutely. But if you don't have the right co-factors for those hormones to be able to get into the cell first, to get to the cell, then to get into the cell, then to be used by the cell, then it's kind of pointless to try to get to hormonal prosperity. So you've got to address your mineral repletion. There are some essential ones that you need to really pay attention to and why.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (02:14):

    We're gonna talk about why it's best to get from your food and supplements, which ones are most important, first, second, and next. Where are the pitfalls when it comes to balancing and repleting your minerals? And we're gonna talk about this amazing quote from one of my favorite authors, Elizabeth Gilbert and one from Fitch, not Han, that will help you in your life. Kaely's gonna share part of her journey from poor health to vitality and really serving and her purpose in this lifetime because isn't that what we all want after all? Yeah, I know you want that. You sure do and you deserve it. So I'll tell you a little bit about her and then we'll get started. So Kaely is a registered dietician, as I said, specializing in nutrition for women's health. And she owns a virtual private practice where she and her team help their clients reclaim their energy, optimize fertility and overcome hormone symptoms through personalize nutrition. Having experienced the pitfalls of a conventional approach to women's health firsthand. I know a lot of you can relate, I can relate. Can relate. Kaely is passionate about empowering women to build health from a place of connection to self, to nature and to community. Please help me welcome Kaely to the show.

    Kaely McDevitt (03:30):

    Thank you so much for having me.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:31):

    I love talking about nutrition because as a traditionally trained mainstream doctor, originally I got no education in nutrition. And even though I'm now fellowship trained in anti-aging, metabolic functional medicine, I find that nothing replaces the depth with which a nutritionist or dietician can go into each specific nutrient, can go into the foods and where you find that and really has a depth and breadth of knowledge that I probably will never have in my lifetime. So thank you for being here and sharing that with our audience.

    Kaely McDevitt (04:09):

    Yeah, my pleasure. <Laugh>.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (04:11):

    So when it comes to a woman's health, right, so from Menarchy when she first gets her period to motherhood when she's pregnant to perimenopause, usually by 35 40, the menopause average age of 51, there are a lot of hormonal transitions that women go through. We talk a lot on the podcast about that. So I think women are pretty familiar with what's happening at these different stages as they go into hormonal poverty, as I call it. Hmm. But we don't talk a lot about how minerals are changing and how they might be the key to any transition. So I'm wondering if you can start just by sharing with everyone from your perspective, 'cause you have a unique RD perspective. Is that something that you were taught in your training about these changes through the transitions for women's health or is that something you came to a realization about on your own in practice? How did this arise for you?

    Kaely McDevitt (05:14):

    Yeah, it came about on my own kind of out of personal necessity. And I think, you know, your personal story to the work you do now is, is pretty similar to mine in that I finished about seven years of higher education in the health space and didn't feel like I really learned anything about women's health in in particular and how hormones work, how they operate, how they impact things like metabolism and nutrient utilization. And you know, I initially went into this field thinking I would work in sports nutrition and as luck would have it, I was dealing with a whole bunch of hormone health symptoms while I was in school getting my credentials. And so I was spending all my free time trying to learn this women's health stuff that really wasn't part of our curriculum. So you know, at the end of all the schooling, I had an RD behind my name but really felt horrible health-wise.

    Kaely McDevitt (06:01):

    And I was like avidly applying <laugh>, the nutrition stuff I was learning. So I would say the realization for how we need to customize nutrition for women specifically and how that might change over different seasons of life really came after and it was personal necessity. First it was like creating this life raft to get myself out of hormone chaos. And then when I got there I looked around and was like, huh, I think a lot of other women are hungry for this kind of info and they don't want this like one size fits all recommendation for things. And so once you start digging into that and working with clients to kind of across the lifespan, you start to see some pretty clear patterns of things that get depleted at different times and how we might make for smoother life transitions.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (06:42):

    Yes, personal necessity is really I think the driver of everything important that we accomplished in life, right? Pain becomes our purpose. So I love that you're really focusing on nutrition around hormones and helping women with it. 'cause What you put, you are really what you put in your mouth. And I know we say that all the time, you are what you eat, but I think we don't really get it. And I, I've seen this meme on the internet where it's a person that's literally made out of food <laugh>, right? So their shoulders broccoli and their right eye is cauliflower and their left eye is pork and you know, <laugh> and so when you look in the mirror and you see your flesh and bones and skin really think about it's that it's, it's what you ate for dinner last night. It's what you ate for breakfast this morning or didn't eat I should say. So how would a woman know she is, you know, we generally talk to women who are over 40, so they're possibly in the perimenopause transition, maybe they're having PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome, maybe fibroids, endometriosis, some of these estrogen dominant conditions. How should she suspect that she might have a mineral imbalance? What would you say to her?

    Kaely McDevitt (07:56):

    Yeah, so I think minerals don't get the airtime that they deserve. I feel like we talk about vitamins a lot more and that was definitely the avenue of investigation I was interested in. First minerals kind of came around after the fact when we were trying to figure out why the heck certain clients weren't getting better as fast as others. And so minerals like kind of in as simplistic of a term as possible, they're really just enzyme co-factors in the body, meaning that they kick off reactions. And so these reactions can be things like producing energy or a TP in the cells. So our metabolism and energy production, it could be part of making healthy red blood cells so we can carry oxygen around. They are how we get nutrients and hormones into the cell. So actually the way your hormones interact with their target tissue is dependent on enough minerals being there at the cellular level, they're necessary for digestion and absorption.

    Kaely McDevitt (08:46):

    And so really the point that I'm making is minerals impact everything and if we are deficient or imbalanced in minerals, some of the classic symptoms would be fatigue, brain fog, kinda your list of hypothyroid, constellation symptoms that might be cold, hands and feet, brittle hair and nails or maybe some hair fall slow wound healing, a lot of digestive complaints secondary to not making enough digestive juices. So things like bloating, food, kind of sitting on comfortably constipation or just sluggish transit. And we typically see women peeing all the time when they're minerally deficient because we don't have the minerals to actually hold hydration in the cells. So you might feel like you're drinking water constantly and just peeing constantly or maybe waking in the night to pee. So those would be a couple of the first clues that we'd be looking at. Right.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (09:32):

    So many of the symptoms that we experienced, but I love how you explain that really minerals are the co-factors that make everything else work. So we might be looking at your hormones, looking at your vitamins, looking at your fats, looking at your macronutrients, but we might not be looking at your minerals. I know this was really brought to my attention by an acupuncturist I worked with years ago and she had me take some liquid mins, trace minerals and all kinds of other minerals and really we started looking at it and I saw how much better everything else worked. That was my real life experience. Let's kind of talk about what are the biggest nutrients that women are deficient in that they might want to look at?

    Kaely McDevitt (10:15):

    Yeah, so we do a lot of mineral testing on our clients. It's actually the only test we automatically do for everybody because for all the reasons we've discussed, minerals impact everything. It's kind of like our grassroots approach for getting things to work really well. And a common pattern that we see, especially women in their forties, maybe getting into that perimenopause territory, is depletion in our foundational minerals. And so foundational minerals would be calcium, magnesium, sodium, and potassium depending on who you're learning to interpret mineral testing from. Those can be considered foundational or kind of tier one minerals because they dictate really what happens with the rest of our trace minerals. So they influence the state of the nervous system and our buffering capacity with stress, they influence thyroid uptake at the cellular level. They influence digestion in our adrenal health too. And so if we think about what is happening in life in our forties and fifties and we've had decades probably of a lot of stress, we've had decades probably of some pretty poor nutrition advice.

    Kaely McDevitt (11:18):

    I think most of us grew up with a lot of like be skinny at all costs, 1200 calorie diets on all the tabloids at the grocery store, checkouts maybe we've been through a couple of pregnancies, maybe we've breastfed babies and there's just so much mineral loss that happens from all of those different types of stressors that if we haven't been intentional about it, we're gonna hit that point of those things being really depleted. And that's the most common pattern we see in that season of life is just very low minerals versus them being really imbalanced, which is a different flavor of of mineral issue.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (11:51):

    Okay. And I know people are gonna, I in and ask us what tests <laugh>, what tests yeah. Are available to check minerals, maybe the one you do, maybe there are others. What would, what are the TE names of the test?

    Kaely McDevitt (12:01):

    Yeah, so we run an HTMA, which stands for hair tissue mineral analysis. So it's actually a hair sample that's looking at mineral status because hair is telling us what's happening in the tissue level and it's giving us about a three month picture of mineral status. Whereas blood work to look at things like sodium, potassium is telling us what's in transit and it is going to be transiently impacted by things like hydration food or supplement intake. So we just get a longer term picture from a hair sample and there are many different labs in the US that run HTMA tests. We use trace elements specifically, but there are several that do it.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (12:39):

    So my question would be, for instance, when we look at heavy metal levels in people, there are many different tests. You can get a blood test, you can get a urine test, you can get a stool test. So urine and stool to look at how much is is excreted blood, how much is in the blood. And you can get a hair test, which some professionals like because they say it's a three month excretion average. But the problem is that heavy metals are not floating around in your circulation. So a blood test is pretty inaccurate and because they're not floating around in your circulation, they're not being excreted through your stool or your urine readily nor are they being secreted in your hair. And so really you have to do these provocation tests where you give them medicine to bring them out. So how accurate is hair analysis when it comes to looking at kind of the steady state mineral levels that are in your systems and in your cells on a day-to-day basis?

    Kaely McDevitt (13:36):

    Yeah, I think it's a really great tool for assessing mineral status, but the testing procedures of the lab really matter. So this was one of the more recent tests that we decided to bring on the practice a couple of years ago because I kind of had a bad taste in my mouth about HTMA testing, validity and accuracy. I think I read some studies back when I was in school that kept this perception there. And so what was important to me is that we found a lab that used mass spectroscopy, which is the gold standard for assessing mineral analysis. It's also what the EPA uses to look at like heavy metal toxicity from a chemical spill in an area. So it's their gold standard test method for it. And then I also wanted to find a lab that did not wash the hair sample before they process it because that could influence and skew the results.

    Kaely McDevitt (14:21):

    So we found that in trace elements, they do a ton of, I forget the term of this for like their quality assurance, but they'll take, oh, a split sample report to make sure that their test is accurate and we're getting the same result for the same person run at the same time. And they do a lot of kinda independent measures for quality assurance, but all tests have their limits. No test is gospel is what we talk about with our clients. It's a tool, it's a guide, it's a way to learn more about you and your physiology. But with things like minerals and with metals, we often find that when we do a retest four to months later, things have shifted quite a bit because minerals are defense against heavy metal accumulation. So as we start to restore mineral status, we start to shift, we almost provoke metal movement. So we'll often see more heavy metals in the hair on a retest because we started to move their foundational mineral status. So I think it's been an extremely reliable and valuable tool in practice. But it's always important with lab testing to keep in mind that this isn't the only story. We have to use this in context with you, your symptoms, your life past data that we have. And we typically can't just run something once and call it a day.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (15:29):

    Yeah, I think helping people to understand the limits, the value and the limits of lab testing and each lab test has its own value and limits. And because we are living systems in a living in environment that's constantly changing, we are constantly changing internally. Our external environment is constantly changing. It's not like setting the thermostat in your house, heat at this temperature, cool at this temperature and set it and forget it. And that's why I always say repeat testing is necessary. Looking at your story as you said, your symptomatology, what's going on, where have you been, where have you been traveling? Yeah, what's your diet been like? What's your stress level like? Just all of the different inputs. So you start at, start with testing. So calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium, foundational or tier one minerals you might look at first and then mm-Hmm <affirmative>. What are some, I mean I know magnesium is huge for women, you know it's used in what, over 450 processes. Do you wanna talk a little bit more about these individually?

    Kaely McDevitt (16:36):

    Sure, yeah I think, I think magnesium gets good attention now, which is awesome because it does so much for us. I'm very rarely recommending something to like the general population at large, but magnesium is one of the few things I would feel really comfortable doing. So because most of us are deficient, whether it's from the stressors and life seasons that we discussed or the fact that it's really hard to get enough minerals from food today thanks to the fact that the soil mineral content is so depleted versus even 50 or a hundred years ago. So sodium and potassium are really good starting points, especially if you resonated with that kind of low energy, almost hypothyroid picture of symptoms because sodium and potassium are our more energizing foundational minerals. These keep things in solution. These help get hormones and other nutrients into the cell. They help us make digestive juices.

    Kaely McDevitt (17:27):

    So when we think about sodium, which I think if I had told my like young dietician student self that one day I'd be recommending more salt to my clients, I would've never believed it. But I, we really, really need a good quality nutrient rich salt in our diet to function optimally. And I know we're coming off of a couple decades of being really salt fearing, but there's a big difference between very refined processed table salt and unrefined mineral rich. And the difference is that it hasn't been stripped of additional trace minerals and I think it's probably not new to your audience that things exist in nature typically in the form that they belong in the body. Meaning we don't just find an isolated sodium molecule somewhere. We find sodium with the abundant trace minerals in actual salt. So actually just adding like a pinch of a good mineral rich salt to water first thing in the morning or making sure we salt our meals can make a big difference with digestion and energy levels.

    Kaely McDevitt (18:25):

    I know for me that was a pretty quick win that I felt personally and we see that play out with our clients. Potassium is another one again that's commonly very low and especially if you resonate with the hypothyroid stuff, potassium is actually how we get that active T three into the cells. And if we came from the low carb kind of fruit and potato fearing diet dogma, then we probably haven't been getting a lot of potassium because fruits root vegetables, those would be our biggest potassium powerhouses in our diet. So we'd be looking for ways to bring those in with each meal. You can of course use mineral and electrolyte powders to accomplish this too. But again, those like whole food forms are gonna come with a bunch of things that science hasn't even yet. Understood. Calcium is very good. Yeah. Oh go ahead. Well

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (19:10):

    I wanna, before you go on to calcium, I just wanna mention with the the sodium and potassium. You know, it was interesting, I just am back from traveling kind of to 13 different or 14 different countries in the past year and a half and it's, it's amazing in some of the countries I was in in Africa, middle East, they in commercially prepared foods, they don't put any salt because they really have taken the salt as the villain dogma to the N degree. So they're like, it's a public health problem. We're not putting salt in restaurant food. A lot of places limit the amount of salt that's put in the food. And it's so interesting because yeah we need, we so need the salt. And so I had a lot of conversations with people about yes, maybe stricted salts, sodium chloride is not great but that sea salt, that pink chimay and sea salt with all the rich nutrients, right? It's got color in it which tells you and usually the colors very vary. So right there that tells you different colors, different minerals is so vital for your health and at any functional medicine conference you'll see all the doctors like fighting over the salt shake <laugh>.

    Kaely McDevitt (20:24):

    Yeah, it's true. So they bring those tiny ones in their purses sometimes <laugh>,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (20:29):

    Yes. Right, because we know, you know, you got to have the peak salt and lots of it. So anyway, I just wanted to to add that that's it for everyone but go ahead with calcium.

    Kaely McDevitt (20:39):

    Yeah, I'm glad you added that. The salt, the salt thing just needs to get out for sure. But the cool thing about minerals in particular is that you can do a lot of experimentation with this easily with things that are in your house and feel the difference in your body in a pretty short period of time. Which is why it became so fun to focus on minerals because in the world of hormone health, as you know, things typically don't resolve overnight. We usually need like 90 days of an intervention before we have huge shifts in in cycle related symptoms. But minerals you can feel that change pretty quickly. So if you're listening and you're curious, I would just dabble a little bit in what we're talking about and note how that feels. So we hit sodium and potassium calcium. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I think gets a decent amount of airtime just primarily about like bone health, especially for women.

    Kaely McDevitt (21:27):

    But it does a couple other cool things for us too. So it is very calming to the nervous system. So when we lack calcium we tend to hang out in that sympathetic fight or flight state more often and struggle to get out of it. So that might feel like poor sleep racing thoughts or minds just feeling really amped up and kind of anxious and that state further depletes minerals. So calcium is one of the ways we break that cycle and actually create some flexibility in the nervous system to go back to that parasympathetic or rest and digest state. So much like sodium, I love calcium from food forms the best more than a calcium supplement. 'cause Again we've got co-factors that we don't even yet fully understand and probably never will in science that really help with the way that we move and use calcium in the body.

    Kaely McDevitt (22:13):

    That it goes where it belongs in the bones and teeth and stays out of things like circulation and soft tissue. And then magnesium is the other piece of that kind of soothing mineral puzzle. So we've got sodium and potassium being more energizing calcium and magnesium being more soothing and calming to the nervous system like you already mentioned. I mean magnesium's involved in literally hundreds of reactions in the body. We actually can't even recognize an A TP molecule without magnesium attached to it. So the energy conundrum is a big magnesium situation. Most cycle related symptoms improve with some supportive magnesium. So I'd be thinking about potentially a magnesium supplement because as much as I love food as our first line of defense, it's really difficult to get a therapeutic dose of magnesium through the diet. We could do Epsom salt baths if you don't have time for a full bath, you can do an Epsom salt foot soak, which is like a nice hack I like to do in a busy workday and still absorb that transdermally. There are a lot of topical magnesium sprays and lotions that you can leverage too. I think this is the mineral that when we're on vacation, especially if you're in the ocean and you just like feel so good and you sleep like a baby, it's probably 'cause of that

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (23:21):

    <Laugh>, yes sunshine, sand, you know, the ionized air and the salt in the water, it's the best. So you know, this is where I think people get a little intimidated by minerals because one, there are so many two, there's so many forms of each different type three, how do there now people are wondering, well how do I get this Kaely, how much do I need and how much, how do I get it into my body? Right? A lot of us want the convenience of prepared foods we don't wanna cook. I was amazed particularly in Dubai and the UAE and in England, how the proportion of prepared foods in the grocery store compared to America where it's more you have to put it together and cook. I was astounded in London, it was, I'd say three quarters of supermarket was all already prepared foods and similar in Dubai. So there's the idea of convenience. So I know that's a lot of topics I'm throwing at you, but there are several different types. Let's take magnesium for instance. So you said mentioned take a supplement, magnesium citrate, magnesium chiate, magnesium malate, magnesium three innate, you know, how do people even begin to know what to do

    Kaely McDevitt (24:40):

    Here? I know, I really empathize with this. There's just, there are too many options for things <laugh> these days, which is a blessing and a curse and we get kind of stuck in the middle In my experience best tolerance and absorption and price has come from magnesium glycinate really well absorbed, generally well tolerated, does not have the bowel loosening impact that like a magnesium oxide or citrate would have because it is better absorbed. Three and eight is another good form as well that I think is generally well tolerated. It tends to be a little bit more expensive than glycinate and I'm a big fan of like the lowest effective dose of things. I don't need to get the creme de la creme if the second step down does the same work for me. So I think that's a pretty good one to start with to trial that I find most people tolerate well if you are totally brand new to minerals, you've never taken a magnesium supplement before, then I would actually even start more simply than that and do like an Epsom salt bath or foot soak or a topical spray or lotion because we're getting to bypass the digestive tract when we do a skin transdermal delivery of magnesium so we can avoid any potential bowel disturbances.

    Kaely McDevitt (25:47):

    It tends to be a little bit more gentle than a supplemental form. And I would also say too that everything works best in tandem. So I wouldn't get hyper-focused on just magnesium. I would also be bringing in, you know, a little good pinch of salt in your day and your water on your food. And then just keeping in mind those potassium rich foods. And this is the main reason why we like to start with those foundational minerals, those first four before we get any further on in somebody's report because it does get so overwhelming so quickly. And if we can hone in on those first four, everything else tends to fall into place. It becomes much easier to address some of those secondary and tertiary minerals. But we always start with those first four for about a month first get some, you know, good momentum going, some quick wins in terms of symptom changes and then we can get more complex from there.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (26:35):

    Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And as you were speaking when I was traveling one store I went to for Epsom salts also had pink Himalayan salt in a big bag for a bath soak and they had did sea salt and so I got one bag of each including the Epsom salts and I really tried to notice what was the difference I felt after taking a bath with each of these and by far I felt the best with the pink Himalayan salt and I think it's because of all these, the panel of contents of minerals, the panel of of minerals that were in there. Totally. And then where would you go next from the foundational minerals?

    Kaely McDevitt (27:14):

    Yeah, so I would spend about a month kind of playing around with that, bringing some of those foods into your diet, noticing how you feel. And then when we look at HTMA testing some of the next kind of orders of operation I guess if we're using a math term for what we would address next. We love to look at what's happening with copper and its relationship with iron and zinc, particularly for women. So copper is a really big deal for the way that we handle and move iron around the body. That's a goldilock situation as most things are. We want enough but not too much. We want enough so we can make really healthy red blood cells that carry oxygen well. And copper's also big for our connective tissue so our collagen cross linking and so healthy skin, hair and nails And then if you've been pregnant or had babies, we pass a lot of copper on to babies during the third trimester.

    Kaely McDevitt (28:04):

    It's big for developing new vasculature and healthy connective tissue for baby as well. So we do see abnormalities in copper quite a bit in women to add a layer of complication to that. Things like birth control, particularly copper IUDs can start to skew that copper balance with zinc and iron. So we would look at that next mm-Hmm <affirmative> and that varies so much from person to person. I'm not seeing like a flat, everybody in this season of life is deficient or everybody in this season of life has excessive amounts. But we would be looking at that and workshopping that accordingly. Meaning we'd look at the diet to make sure that there were good copper and zinc rich food sources. We'd make sure that we had enough co-factors to help the way that we balance and move things like copper and iron. So things like vitamin C and vitamin A come into play with that conversation and then just making sure that they can move and access iron well and that it's not being stored in tissues. Those would be our next three that we'd look at.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (28:59):

    Right. And I do just wanna reiterate the copper and iron are both kind of these Goldilocks minerals. You do not want too much. So if you're kind of, oh, if it's good for me more is better. Do not do that with your iron and your copper <laugh> because you can totally overload yourself. And then these are heavy metal, they become heavy metal toxic in your body and I've seen that with both of these minerals. So don't do that. So test, I'm always like test don't guess. Yes, test don't guess. Yeah. Amen. And so amen. It's true here, right?

    Kaely McDevitt (29:35):

    Amen. Yeah, especially with those. Yeah. Which is why I don't like to give out any recommendations related to copper and iron for someone to try. 'cause I just don't know enough about you or what your testing results look like or history to make a safe recommendation there. But that would be the next area of investigation for sure.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (29:50):

    Right. And what you will see is that a lot of the over counter, you can buy copper and iron separately, but a lot of the multi women's vitamins that are over the counter will not include iron and copper specifically because of the potential to over overlap load for nutritional supplements tend to be a very litigious area so they just steer clear of it. But this is where some of the higher level prescriber prescribed are available nutraceuticals that you can only get through a healthcare practitioner have versions. Usually for women they'll have a multivitamin mineral with copper and without copper with iron, without iron because they're assuming that you're getting tested in, you're being appropriately followed and counseled. That's how delicate it is with these. And what are your thoughts about, you mentioned earlier you prefer people to get these minerals from their diet, from food dietary sources rather than supplements. Can you explain why that is and how successful people should expect to be with manipulation of their diet? To increase their mineral status? Yeah. Versus taking supplements. Mm-Hmm.

    Kaely McDevitt (31:03):

    <Affirmative>. Yeah, it's tough like we talked about with the way that the soil and therefore our food supply is different in terms of nutritional value today it takes a very concerted effort to do this through the diet and I've yet to be able to be completely void of, of supplementation to really accomplish this. But I do think it's important that we start with food because food is brilliantly designed by nature to have minerals and vitamins in ratios that really support utilization and absorption. So for example, with our kind of like copper conversation, the relationship between copper and zinc is a really important one in the body. And foods that have copper always come with a little bit of zinc and vice versa. So we've got good checks and balances in place with food where we're not likely to overdo something. And we have a whole bunch of non-identified by science factors in whole foods that I think really benefit the whole human being.

    Kaely McDevitt (31:56):

    A lot of our antioxidants and polyphenols and things that are not nutritive but do influence the health of the of the host. So I think looking at, again, bringing in some good fresh fruits and vegetables as mineral rich powerhouses, good broths, whether it's a bone broth or a vegetable broth is a great mineral rich food to bring in those good quality unrefined salts are great to bring in quality dairy if you to tolerate that for some of the calcium, those things would be great foundational elements to build that diet. And then we can supplement beyond there if there are gaps to fill based on your testing, your stressors, your story. But I think we're remiss if we wanna take, you know, three handfuls of capsules every morning and then not have to care about the food that we eat. It just doesn't play out the same <laugh>.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (32:44):

    Yeah. And you know there's something that food has that by the time they crunch down these nutrients into a vitamin capsule for you that's the prana or the chi, the life force in the plant. And like you mentioned earlier, everything exists in nature in a form with a life force that's meant to nourish us. So what are we doing if we're only taking supplements and we're only, we're not eating food. So just to learn story. So someone who I respect very much in the business world who I was working with and he had a bit of a weight problem and I hadn't seen him for a while and then all of a sudden I saw him and he's telling me that he's gone to this diet that he, and he's looking great, right? Really tram lowered his body fat, muscular. So I asked him, what are you doing? He said, oh I changed my diet. So he's using making protein powder pancakes in the morning and having like, you know, artificial sweetener syrup for breakfast and he's basically not eating real food all day long but he's cutting his calories and he's like, I feel great. And inside I'm like, that's not gonna last for an hour. <Laugh>. No this is not getting that. So talk, talk about those intangibles and food and real food that are so important.

    Kaely McDevitt (34:02):

    Yeah, I think there's so much more to nourishment than just like the actual food and the composition of it. Like carbs, proteins and fats. We get real focused on the composition of food in the weight loss space and miss the nourishment that comes from eating something that you enjoy that you took time to prepare, that you put love and intention into as you prepared it. Or maybe put love and intention or gratitude into it right before you consumed it. Maybe this is a family recipe, this is something that's culturally relevant to you. There's so much more nourishment we get from that than something that's been packaged, processed, manipulated, and is so far removed from that initial version of the food. A good example of that would be like a whole apple being as close to it as it exists in nature as possible versus apple sauce, apple flavored candy, you know, at the far end where we've gotten really far removed.

    Kaely McDevitt (34:55):

    So we just get more nutrition on the closer to the natural form as possible. And when we contrast that with really processed foods, which they normally have to go back in and add some nutrients to make it comparable, the form is different. So we have synthetic lab produced vitamins and minerals in fortified foods and a lot of supplements. There are some great supplements out there that are not synthetic forms, which would be a helpful thing to look at. But what exists in nature is the form that your body is most easily recognizing, most easily absorbing and using. So there's a big difference between like the vitamin C that you get from eating a whole orange or grapefruit than the like refined ascorbic acid you might get in a vitamin C drop very different functions and they come with, you know, that full spectrum of polyphenols and antioxidants in the food form versus that kind of refined extracted supplement.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (35:45):

    Right. Thank you so much for, for sharing that. So copper, iron, zinc, co-factors, vitamin C, vitamin A, what would we work on next?

    Kaely McDevitt (35:56):

    Yeah, so there's a mineral that's kind of further down our chart called boron that does not ever really get talked about. It's not like this fun sexy nutrient that you're gonna see a lot of posts about, but boron <laugh> really helps with the way that we retain potassium and magnesium. So potassium and magnesium are supposed to mostly be inside the cell and they dip outside of the cell during seasons of stress. So that's one of the first cellular changes when we see stress hormones enter the system is magnesium and potassium leave the cell. That's why we can sometimes see them actually shoot up on a hair test if we catch this acute stress picture. But anywho, boron helps with the retention of potassium and magnesium, which is a big way to bolster our tolerance or resilience to stress. We talk a lot about stress and burnout with our clients and I know that in and of itself can become overwhelming because we can't like quit our jobs, leave our families and typically can't just take a sabbatical tomorrow if we need it.

    Kaely McDevitt (36:56):

    And so the goal is not this stress-free life where we have just a whole day of meditation and yoga unless of course that's an option for you, which is amazing. But our goal is to build that resilience and retaining our potassium and magnesium is a big part of that and boron is a piece of that puzzle. It does have some function with the iron copper balance too and even the way that we make sure that calcium stays in the bones and teeth. So it is a kinda an unsung hero in the mineral world that we definitely look at with our clients on testing and can provide support if needed. A couple easy ways to provide some boron support if you wanna go food, we're actually looking at prunes and prune juice being a good boron source. Yay. Which is funny. <Laugh> easy, right? If we wanna supplement form that can come from you know, drops or capsules.

    Kaely McDevitt (37:42):

    It's usually just like a plain boron supplement or like you mentioned a trace minerals dropper. A lot of the trace mineral formulations that are out there have boron in the mix because it is the full constellation of macro minerals and trace minerals. So there's easy ways to do that. Then a lot of the like mineral baths, so we talked about Epsom salts, we talked about Himalayan pink salt being in the bath. You can even put like food grade borax that we would use as like a cleaning aid into a bath and actually get boron from that absorbed through the skin. So there's a couple of different options for some boron support

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:17):

    Now I have never heard that. What food grade Bax. MM-Hmm <affirmative> and put it in your bath. Where do you even get that

    Kaely McDevitt (38:25):

    On Amazon? So it's usually a cleaning supply, right? It's what people add to their laundry to <laugh> boost the effectiveness of their detergent. But you can absorb that in a bath. And so we've experimented with this a lot because we do so much HTMA testing with our clients and we've had some clients that really struggle to move the needle with the potassium and magnesium stuff. We'll do retest and it's just not budging. And so we started bringing in where we sprinkle in a little bit of borax in a foot bath or as part of like their bigger mineral detox full bath and they sleep amazing that night and then their mineral retest actually look better. So it has stuck with me it as like a very low cost mineral added <laugh>.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:03):

    I'm gonna have to try that and I will get back to you on what <laugh> please do. <Laugh>. I never heard of that. That's amazing. Yeah, there are many, many minerals we can't possibly go through all of them during this this show and teach you about all of them. You all obviously hear that Kaelyn knows what she's talking about. I love that you test and don't guess I, I'm such an advocate for that with everything. But I do wanna touch on, you talked a little bit about burnout and it's the beginning of the year. A lot of people are like, oh my gosh, January of a new year I didn't do all the things I wanted to do last year and now I have new things I wanna do and how am I possibly gonna get them done? Especially because my hormones are out of whack.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:47):

    I don't feel good, I don't have good energy. You shared this quote with me before we started recording from some bylaw of Elizabeth Gilbert that is you have to participate relentlessly in the manifestation of your own blessings. Which that's, I I love so many quotes of her. She just has a beautiful facility with crafting <laugh> sentences and paragraphs and storytelling stories and I think that this speaks to kind of the the burnout issue. So can you talk a little bit about, I know it's a lot I'm asking you to do, but this quote and how it relates to burnout and where we are kind of at a new year, 2024 and there's a lot going on on this planet, right? There's, I think I heard in one news story and you may not hear about this every day, there are a hundred wars going on on our planet right now and we're in this kind of insanity where we're overwrought with technology and now here comes AI and you guys listen and you know, you know the stressors that you've got. I'm not gonna stress you out by listing them <laugh>, but where does a woman even begin and how does she begin to deal with her transitions and prevent or reverse her burnout and manifest her own blessings? Yeah,

    Kaely McDevitt (41:07):

    I'm glad you brought this up because I think this is like, this is the root I think of most hormone health issues is this like chronic state of stress and then on the other end of that being burnout. And it's tough because we're living in a time where we have access to limitless information and exposure to everything that's happening around the world. And we also have like pretty extreme pressures on our personal and professional lives and maybe there's families in the mix with that too. There's just a lot on the plate and I think we also tend to get almost addicted to the way stress hormones feel in the system. It starts to become a bit of our personality and I'm like fully calling myself out a few years ago with this, but we love the feeling of being that like yes person, we just say yes, we take it all on.

    Kaely McDevitt (41:53):

    We are the one that shows up for everybody we do the most and our own cup is left on the back burner and it's very, very empty. So a way that we like to talk about this with our clients and I think what ties us back to that quote is you have to decide for yourself what that vision of your life looks like. And in order to let go of the stress and burnout picture, there's often a like renewing your identity or letting go of things that don't fit anymore. So what I mean by that is if we want to not live in this burnout state, we have to figure out who we are. If we're not the person that says yes to everybody and no to ourselves, who are we in that room? If we're not the people pleaser that derives our worth from what we do for others only And that's a pretty uncomfortable piece of work.

    Kaely McDevitt (42:37):

    But I think it's the only way out of this because like she said in that quote, you know you have to relentlessly participate in creating that vision for your manifestation. So what do you want life to look like? How do you wanna feel in your body? How do you wanna show up in the room? And I don't think we have enough examples of women that are really grounded in who they are that aren't burning the candles at both ends that know their worth comes from who they are, not just what they do. And I think if more of us awake to that vision and really resonate with that being the image, we can start to rearrange our life and our priorities and even our personality to support it so that we don't burn through our minerals like a mad woman every single day and have to play catch up so that our sex hormones can actually thrive because we're not in an environment of stress hormones all the time. And so that when we do go through perimenopause and into menopause, it's not such a rocky road because our adrenals aren't just burnt out and in the gutter already. So I think I maybe created more questions than answering any, but I think it's just this big conversation of who am I if I'm not burnt out? Who like who is that person? But

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (43:39):

    It's such an important conversation to have because so many women are suffering with hormone problems, they're also suffering with micronutrient deficiencies, whether it's mineral, vitamin, other nutrients and they're running around looking for answers. I just need my estrogen fixed, I just need my magnesium fixed. But like you said at the beginning, this gets to the root. The root is that we're running around trying to live and create our worth by everyone else's expectations being the best. And you know the epidemic of <laugh> busyness, particularly in some of the countries that I visited, it's in the nth degree, it's really at an insane level. And what was so beautiful is is visiting some of the less developed countries where it's more of a simple existence. Connection is way bigger. You would see people walking to work together in groups of women or groups of men and talking, you know, in groups and you know, everybody wasn't on their phone.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (44:43):

    Oh my gosh, in every country I've been to that's considered a progressive country. Nobody's looking at each other, nobody's talking. Everyone's got their face in their phone and they're doing, doing, doing. And so I think having these larger questions, which we're gonna be having more of on the podcast this year, I would love to have you on 'cause it sounds like you've grappled with some of this really talking about like this quote you shared from Fitch, not Han, which I love The miracle is to walk on the green earth telling deeply in the present moment, right? Are we doing that <laugh>? And that really gets to, to the crux of the issue. So before we wrap up, do you wanna talk a little bit about how you're, you've changed your life and your way of being in the world to dwell deeply in the present moment?

    Kaely McDevitt (45:33):

    Sure. And I wanna be clear that this is an ongoing and ever evolving practice. <Laugh>. I don't think you <laugh>, I don't think you just like arrive there and that's, that's the end of the work. But as a business owner and working in like the health field that I know you can relate to, it's really easy to feel like your worth comes from what you give to everyone around you. And that the more you do, the better things get in your life. And I was basically just burning myself out trying to do work that I ultimately love. So I had to reevaluate that because when I do my own tests I was getting called out left and right about things being out of whack because I wasn't living in an alignment with what it takes to have balanced hormones and balanced minerals. So I had to really consider the pace and how I structured my days and create opportunities to really focus on being present and being outside and off of screens and just being instead of focusing on the doing so much.

    Kaely McDevitt (46:27):

    So having a morning where I don't check my emails or social media for like the first hour of the day. Totally life changing for me because I get to pour into myself before I let my energy go out into the world getting outside. We have chickens, which was a really fun thing for me 'cause I have to go out there in the morning and do stuff with them. So get to be out there. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> seeing the sun and trying to do that in the middle of the workday made a big difference. And I think at the end of the day, one of the like thought processes that changed it so much for me was remembering like you're the main character of your life. Like you gotta make decisions as the main character, not the support role. We're always doing things for other people and for whatever reason I wanted to share that 'cause it really made things click with me where I was not choosing things as like main character of my life. I was letting circumstances kind of steamroll me, but you steer this ship, you create this vision, this manifestation that you're working towards. So what do you want it to look like and how can you own the responsibility for when it doesn't look that way? So mostly just called myself out a lot and <laugh> and continually work on that each day. <Laugh>.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (47:33):

    Yeah, I think it is a work in progress for everyone, but I find that as women share more about this and talk about strategies they find things they've done, how they do it and make it work for them, it gives permission for others to do, do things that are off the beaten path and and create their own map to their own sanity. The manifestation of their own blessings, their own ideal health. And so thank you much so much for sharing the path that you're forging and how you're helping other women. I think it's been a great value. And please share with everyone where they can connect with you online.

    Kaely McDevitt (48:12):

    Sure, yeah, you can find me mostly on Instagram. I don't have the bandwidth for multiple social media platforms, so I'm on social media and it's just at Kaely Rd on Instagram. My website is the same. So you'll find more education like the stuff we discussed and then ways that we can help if, if you need help on that

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (48:30):

    Journey. Thank you so much Kaely. Thanks for being here. Thank you for listening to another episode of The Hormone Prescription. I hope you are inspired to work on manifesting your own blessing, starting with your minerals 'cause that will help your hormones. Reach out to me on social media and let me know what you're doing and how it's working out. I'm gonna try that thing we talked about <laugh>, I'll let you know on social media how that works out and I hope to see you again next week for another episode. Until then, peace, love, and hormones y'all.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (49:00):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormone and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

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  • Welcome to another empowering episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, designed specifically with you, the midlife woman, in mind. 🎙️

    This week, we're tackling a topic that resonates deeply with so many of us – "Hormone Poverty And Your Brain, Vagina, Libido - How To Fix It Now". And we couldn't ask for a better guide on this journey than our esteemed guest, Dr. Cathleen Brown. 👩‍⚕️

    Meet Our Guest

    Dr. Cathleen Brown is not only a board-certified obstetrician and gynecologist with an exemplary background rooted in the Philadelphia suburbs, but she's also a decorated former Army physician with a heart for mentorship and a passion for holistic women’s health. 🏥🇺🇸

    Her career, spanning over two decades, paints a picture of dedication - from guiding future medical practitioners to addressing the intimate concerns of women transitioning through menopause. ✨

    In This Episode

    Discover: What "Hormone Poverty" means for your brain health, vaginal vitality, and libido. 🧠💕Learn: The profound impact hormones have on our bodies and the nuanced interplay between them and our well-being.Explore: Dr. Brown's insightful advice on hormone replacement therapy and how it can revitalise your life during and after the menopausal transition.Hear: Candid, real-life stories from Dr. Brown's extensive experience that illuminate the path to a healthier, more vibrant you.Get Inspired: To take control of your health and explore the options available to combat the symptoms of hormone imbalance. 💪

    Dr. Brown also shares her personal interests in traveling, gardening, and the joys of motherhood, connecting with us on more than just a professional level. 🌿✈️

    Actionable Takeaways

    Empower yourself with knowledge about your body's hormonal dynamics.Don't hesitate to seek help; quality hormone replacement therapy might just be the key you need.Remember that your concerns are valid, and your health matters - always.

    Keep shining, lifelong learners, and remember - your body's changes are not just a medical matter; they're a pivotal part of your story. Join us as we learn from Dr. Brown how to rewrite the narrative on hormone health and reclaim our vibrancy.

    Until next time, keep nurturing your body, cultivating your mind, and inspiring your spirit! 🌟

    If you found value in today's conversation, please consider leaving us a review or rating on your preferred podcast platform. Every bit of support helps us reach and empower more women just like you.

    Stay connected with us on social media and join the movement of women who choose to live their best lives – hormonally balanced and brimming with energy. 🌷

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

    The founder of my alma mater, Thomas Jefferson Medical College, said that knowledge is power. We're gonna empower you with some foundational knowledge about bioidentical hormone therapy and why it's absolutely necessary and how to do it right in this episode with two board certified OBGYNs. Stay tuned.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:23):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kieran Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (01:17):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive into one of my favorite topics, natural hormone therapy, hormonal poverty, hormonal prosperity, midlife, metabolic mayhem. You know, all the things I love talking about. The things that I presented in my TED Talk. If you haven't checked that out, it's on my YouTube channel. You'll wanna see that. Super important because hormonal poverty that's programmed for us women as we go to 35 and 40 and beyond, can cause myriad symptoms. I like to call midlife metabolic mayhem contributes to disease, including dementia and heart disease, the number one killer of women over 50 and others, and it shortens your lifespan. So you might wanna listen up today. My guest is also a board certified O-B-G-Y-N. Who gets it when it comes to natural hormone therapy and the necessity for it.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (02:14):

    Now, if you know me well enough, you know, I'm fellowship trained in anti-aging, metabolic and functional medicine as well. I had my own healing journey that included the two prescriptions you need for hormonal prosperity. One written for maybe sex hormones, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and the other is not a written prescription, but a lifestyle prescription. So I've really gone into even additional training further than Dr. Ka, but she gets it when it comes to bioidenticals. We do differ when it comes to what you should do for an evaluation before they're prescribed, what should be prescribed, et cetera, et cetera. So I think you'll find this interesting because she and I are on different pages when it comes to certain aspects of bioidentical hormones. But as you know, I'm not the kind of doctor who says, do this because I say it's right. I like you to educate yourself.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:09):

    We present the education and then you make your own decision. So is testing necessary? Hmm. You'll have to listen. Is testosterone necessary? Hmm. You'll have to listen and so much more. So I think you'll enjoy it. And I'll tell you a little about Dr. Kat. She lived near where I went to college. I went to Bryn Mawr College. She lives in the Philly suburbs where Bryn MA is. And I went to Jefferson in Philly. She went to one of the other medical schools in Philly. I think there are five or six. It might be the highest concentration of medical schools, actually, in any city in the country. So it's a very medical education focused in Philadelphia. Anyway, Dr. Kathleen Brown, she's board certified. I'm gonna try and make this a little shorter 'cause it's really long. But she's Philadelphia trained at Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine. She was in the military, actually, where my cousin was in, in medical administration at Tripler in Hawaii, which is a very beautiful place. She's worked in North Carolina doing general OB GYN and she is an OB hospitalist now also in Philadelphia. And she works with a company called One Nona prescribing Bioidentical Hormones virtually. So you'll get to hear about that as well. So please help me welcome Dr. Kat Brown to the show.

    Dr. Cat Brown (04:40):

    Well, thank you so much Dr. Kyrin Dunston. It's very nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (04:44):

    Yeah, I'm always excited to talk to another ob, GYN who gets it when it comes to what I call hormonal poverty of menopause, but also perimenopause that women are programmed to go into. And you totally get it. So you guys are gonna get a treat today 'cause you're gonna get two ob gyn board certified OBGYNs who get it and really understand and speak hormone, who are just kind of talking about what's important that you need to know now. So this is really a privy conversation I think you're gonna enjoy. So I always think it's fascinating for everyone to share with my guest to share, you know, you were trained like I was a traditional straight shooter, O-B-G-Y-N, pharmaceutical prescriptions and surgeries to quote unquote fix everything. And here we are in our careers later down the line, and we both realized that maybe we didn't get the whole truth in what we were thinking. So what was that path like for you?

    Dr. Cat Brown (05:48):

    Isn't that the truth? I mean, it's, I remember in residency being told like, oh, just memorize these hormones and just, you know, give everyone Premarin if they need to. And you're probably not gonna need this because you're not gonna prescribe hormones. I, I remember attending telling me that, you know, because of the WHI study that, you know, this was something we learned for the test, but you were never actually gonna use in real, real time practice. And for me, that changed when patients started coming to me with issues. But also when I started going through my own journey into this part of midlife too, and realizing that really the things that we were taught and the things that we were doing in practice were just not good enough. You know, it just seemed like not enough emphasis and time was put into women's health and midlife.

    Dr. Cat Brown (06:36):

    And then I felt, of course, you know, like many people do, like you feel gypped, right? You feel like the information is inadequate. And I also felt like, just like the same as, you know, our nutrition information and, and education that we got as physicians. And I think maybe I got an hour in medical school talking about nutrition and I, thinking back, you know, to medical school and residency, how much time was actually spent on perimenopause and menopause. It was grossly inadequate, you know? So I feel like at this point in my career, I've had to do a lot of introspection, but also a lot of research on my own and a lot of education on my own in order to help myself as well as help my patients.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (07:15):

    It's so true. I mean, you know, I have that same cut and dry education training and, and I practiced that for many years because I hadn't experienced those changes yet, which is wholly inadequate to really address the symptomatology that women have as they go into hormonal poverty. And then when I started going through it, I was like, holy, what is happening? <Laugh>?

    Dr. Cat Brown (07:39):


    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (07:40):

    And then realized that the solutions that we had as sports certified OB GYNs didn't really work. And so here I was at 243 pounds where I had no energy and slept all the time, and my hair was falling out. I had no sex drive. My gut was a wreck. I, you know, my digestion, I mean, I was, I was just a mess. I had chronic pain, fibromyalgia, and then I kind of saw the light and <laugh> and then figured it out. And so now, you know, I made a promise that I would spend the rest of my life teaching other women about this. So if you're listening, you're getting the insider's view of where OBGYNs go when they learn the truth. Because if you're going to your regular ob gyn right about now, you're not getting the whole story. You're not getting the whole truth, you're not getting everything that's available to you. And I'm not saying it's their fault, it's just how they were trained and they don't know any better, just like it used to be true for Dr. Kat and for me. But you wanna go to someone who's been through hell and back and, you know, has seen the light.

    Dr. Cat Brown (08:45):

    Isn't that the truth? Seen the light, for sure. <Laugh>,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (08:49):

    What do you think is super important? I'm a huge proponent. One of my complaints about traditional OB GYN is that their standard of care for testing everything in mainstream medicine. Test your blood pressure test, your weight test, potassium test, your total cholesterol test, you know, your rectal blood for, you know, for blood. All these things we test. And then when it comes to women's hormones, we go board certified OBGYNs, throw their hands up and go, there's no standard of care for testing. We don't test. They're all over the place. We don't know. I mean, just anyone listening to that can go, that's kind of insane. What do you make of all that? You know,

    Dr. Cat Brown (09:29):

    It's one of those things that I feel like not enough attention has been placed on it, but I think just even, even talking to a patient, just even simply getting a good quality interview of a patient and talking about their symptom profile, like, we can tell right away when someone tells me that, you know, they're not getting as lubricated as they used to, or their joints are hurting, or, you know, they're experiencing vaginal dryness, their skin is different. Like, in my mind right away, I can start to think about, okay, what's happening in their hormonal environment, in their body? You know? And I think that frankly, like a lot of the time you go to a traditional OB, GYN, you go to those visits, there's just not enough time for them to even have the conversation. Half the time you don't even really get to, to talk to your doc.

    Dr. Cat Brown (10:11):

    You might give your history and your symptoms to their ma or to their nurse, but they come in and it's like they focus on the exam and that quick in it, that quick interaction and then you're done. So I think that it's just a matter of time and having a real quality conversation. You know, I don't think that, you know, right now, like we, I can't rely on a lot of the lab tests that patients bring to me because I have no idea what the lab's doing and, and when they're drawing the labs and that kind of thing. And so there's just so much variability. There's not enough consistency for me to really look at the lab values and really value them. So for me, in my practice, I end up using the patient's history and their symptom profile and their symptom log gives me so much more information than I could, could otherwise.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (10:55):

    Yeah, I mean, certainly I hope you would agree blood work is not accurate for steroid hormones that are not water soluble. So I typically rely on the Dutch test, the dried urine hormone, which is really accurate. I know there's some others that have used it, but I just think it's kind of crazy. I would never have a patient come in and, you know, talk to them and get their symptoms and then go, you know what? It sounds like your low potassium, I'm gonna give you some potassium because you have symptoms of low potassium without checking their potassium. So I just, when I learned about accurate sex hormone testing for estradiol s trial, estro progesterone testosterone, and learned how to read it on myself, because of course I had done blood tests that all came back, quote unquote normal 'cause the range is ginormous on blood. And then I did it, and it actually gave me in four colors where I was and Oh, this is why you have the symptoms.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (11:54):

    And then over the years, as I've seen thousands of these tests, really seeing how each woman has a unique picture, right? It's not one size fits all. People have their unique flavor of what they're high on and how high, what they're low on, and how low what their estrogen phase one and two detox looks like. So I just find testing invaluable for women instead of just, like I say in medicine, there's, there's nothing that we don't test. That was a big wake up call for me. And now I see the real injustice. I don't know if you've looked into the history of gynecology, the profession of gynecology, like under the American Board of Specialties, how it started? Yeah. And kind of how it's evolved. I mean, what were your thoughts on that? I was pretty horrified when I learned some of the details about how that specialty evolved.

    Dr. Cat Brown (12:46):

    It was just the sense of embarrassment and like the feeling of just feeling appalled as how especially gynecologic surgery evolved and learning how so much of our field has so many roots in systemic racism is just crazy, you know? And some of the information about Marian Sims and coming out about some of the things that he did and how he experimented on his slaves to, in order to get the information, you know, for surgical advancement especially, you know, that's something that came to light, I think more in the last few years, especially since Black Lives Matter, you know, and ACOG has done some memorial lectures in in response to that. But that was probably one of the biggest things that I was just thrown back by because I don't remember hearing anything about that at all throughout my training, you know? And so to learn that, and, you know, even to move forward and, and, and hear about, you know, the Henrietta Lacks situation too, and how, how she was experimented on, but not really fully treated. And, and we still use ourselves to this day, you know, to study chemotherapies for ovarian cancer. It's insane. That was one of the biggest eye-opening moments for me as a gynecologist. I, I would say.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (14:02):

    Yeah, I agree. So, you know, for everyone listening, if you haven't heard about this, basically the profession has been developed with a kind of unethical medical and surgical use of people of color and women without consent to do research on. And some of it is very unethical, not the way we do research now, which, you know, people could argue maybe there's some problems with the ethical nature now, but it's way better than it used to be. And it really was started as a surgical specialty more than anything. And so then you have people who are surgeons who they weren't really ever intending to address women's hormones that that wasn't the intention. So you have to look at the lens at which people are viewing a problem that they're dealing with. So here you have men, you have white men who are looking at women's health through a surgical lens and really what their intention is and how they view women in general.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (15:09):

    And so it's just really clouded. And, you know, maybe I'll have to have someone come on the podcast who's a historian, sociologist, who can really break it down for everyone. But I too was embarrassed when I learned all the details. I really got a good understanding of why we're stuck with our present mainstream gynecology system of care that we have and why we know everybody's so myopic and won't move out of it and won't really see the problem because they can't. So make that discussion a larger discussion to have another time. But thank you for sharing your thoughts on that. In terms of the importance of natural hormone therapy and, and the difference between what you would get at your doctor's office, traditional mainstream doctor's office, or what you might get from a physician like us who is trained in bioidenticals, what would you say is the importance? 'cause I get a lot of questions from women. What are bioidentical hormones? Can my regular doctor prescribe that? Why not? What's the difference? So what would you explain to them?

    Dr. Cat Brown (16:13):

    Yeah, I mean, I think that my biggest, easiest way to discuss this, with regard to this, is really to talk about Premarin, right? Which is probably the most common hormone replacement that can be prescribed by most physicians, whether it be the topical vaginal Premarin, or whether it be the oral pills. I like to tell patients the story of Premarin, and I like to tell them what the origin of the name of it is, you know? 'cause When you break it down, I mean, Premarin really means pregnant mare's urine. And so, you know, fundamentally just the main difference from the traditional pharmaceuticals, especially given for hormone therapy compared to bioidentical, is that most traditional pharmaceuticals are not hormones that exist naturally in our bodies. Especially when you think about Premarin being the pregnant mare's urine. It's coming from the urine of pregnant horses.

    Dr. Cat Brown (17:04):

    And, and these have, you know, when you look at the label, I remember as a medical student even looking at it saying conjugated equine estrogens, why equine? You know? And when you finally learn like this is the, a jumbling of horse hormones that's put together, and it's almost like we're collecting as many estrogens, estrogens as we can, putting them into a pill and throwing them at a patient hoping that one will take, you know, but there's so many other compounds in those medications that aren't even biologically active and human beings that, you know, just really can't. So it can't be optimal for a patient, right? Because we're giving them horse hormones when really they need human hormones that are similar to what their body is making. And so that difference, you know, when we talk about bioidentical, it's, it's really hormones that are the same as what your body would normally make on its own, but it's incapable of continuing to create on its own and the levels that we need it, you know? And so patients are always shocked and they say, well, how could they do that? How could they be giving me horse estrogen? But we've been doing it for years, you know?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (18:06):

    Right. But the body thing that a lot of people are amazed to learn is that why, why is the next question? Oh. Because they can't get a patent on a naturally occurring substance. Yeah. So they could have created exactly what you had in your body, which would've been best for you. Right. So if you're low on potassium, what do we do? We create potassium. Exactly. It's what you have. And then give that to you. So it would be best for you. Anyone can understand that. But no, we can't get a patent on it, meaning we can't make money on it even though it's best for women. Right. So that's why we're gonna go get it from horses. So it's a whole capitalist capitalistic view. Yeah. Capitalism drives so much of our health problems and we don't even realize it <laugh>. Well,

    Dr. Cat Brown (18:53):

    And that's such a bigger conversation. I mean, we could get into that whole conversation about how, you know, so much of wellness and health is driven by big pharma and because they can't make money on naturally occurring things or even supplements, you know, that there's just no money or research put into that. And so they create these synthetic compounds to make new medications. And it's, it's all this big money making scheme. And pharma just keeps getting richer and richer. Whereas, you know, the medications aren't as readily available to patients. It's sad, but true <laugh>. But it extends into the women's health arena too, when it comes to not only hormones, but even birth controls. You know, that big pharma kind of rules everything. And as soon as it's something is old enough that it gets to generic and it gets more affordable for a patient, they just tweak some little thing about the medication, the color of the pill, or how many days it can last or what the package looks like, just so they can get another patent to be able to continue charging ungodly amounts for brand new medication. It's crazy, right?

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (19:57):

    So Yes, it is. And so you talked a little bit about Premarin. So yes, mainstream pharmaceuticals, Premarin Provera, which wasn't progesterone, it was hydroxyprogesterone acetate. So how are these hormones, why are they important for our brain health? I think that's something that not many people don't hear enough about. Yeah.

    Dr. Cat Brown (20:17):

    I think the best way to describe it to patients is that estrogen has such a beneficial effect on every tissue of our body. You know, as, as female human beings, estrogen is pervasive in every tissue and even at the cellular level. And so with, without it, the junctions, especially in our brain, like our, our neurons, our neurotransmitters, things just can't function as well as they can unless there's estrogen in that environment to help those tissues act their best and, and help those connections. So I think, you know, the same is, goes through, you know, joint discomfort. And, you know, even with the cardioprotective aspect of estrogen, there's so many good things that it does through every tissue in our body that when you start removing estrogen, those areas just can't function as well as they want to. That's how I kind of describe it to patients to kind of get it to a simpler level.

    Dr. Cat Brown (21:11):

    But, you know, we, we see the research coming out that, you know, for patients that don't use hormone therapy, their cognitive decline is so much more rapid. Those changes are so much more noticeable in patients that aren't on hormone replacement. You know? And I think it's something that we're gonna see more and more of, especially as we in general, as patients and as consumers, are more demanding of treatment. I think we're gonna start to see a change in that, in, in that climate, you know, as far as watching patients, you know, combat that cognitive decline. And, and you know, especially when it comes to dementia, the onset of that, I think that that's important.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (21:48):

    The other thing that I found crazy, did you find this crazy too? When I learned about proper bioidentical hormone treatment used to be, and I think it's still this way, that mainstream doctors are taught that women who don't have a uterus don't need progesterone. Because the only reason you need progesterone is to prevent the uterus from creating cancer in response to estrogen. When I discovered, when I did my fellowship in anti-aging, metabolic and functional medicine, you know, I learned, well, oh, you know what, what about the breast counteracting the effects of estrogen in the breast? And then also the neuroprotective effects of progesterone where it's actually used in traumatic brain injury patients and stroke patients to help preserve brain tissue. And all the tissues, all the cells have response to progesterone. So can you talk a little bit about that? 'cause I know there are women listening who are saying, well, I'm only on estrogen, I don't have progesterone, and they're not really aware that they need that to balance it out. Mm-Hmm.

    Dr. Cat Brown (22:48):

    <Affirmative>. But I think it's a, you know, it's something unique to each patient. You know, I have that conversation with my patients, you know, and, and typically I have patients that, you know, that come to me with a history of a hysterectomy, maybe on estrogen only. And we have that conversation. I mean, I think that, I don't necessarily prescribe, personally, I don't necessarily prescribe progesterone for every single patient that has had a hysterectomy. It's a, it's, you know, I make it a shared decision making process with my patients. And we talk about the risks and the benefits, and it's one of those things that I have some patients that really do want it. And so we add progesterone, but it's not something that I've made universal for each patient, you know? And I think that, so a lot of my patients want as minimal amount of medications as possible. And so it's mm-Hmm, <affirmative> it's one of those things that we have the conversation about. But I absolutely have patients that feel like they function better with both hormones, with the estrogen and the progesterone. And so we do that when they want that and they need that.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (23:46):

    Yeah. I mean, I guess that's different when you're just treating based on symptoms. Like, oh, you have this symptom, I think you need that, and you have this symptom, I think, versus a test, you know, I guess it's a different viewpoint where you see the hormones as these are necessary components for optimal functioning. 'cause You have progesterone receptors in all your cells and tissues, including your brain. So I guess it's a different way of looking at it. How about the importance of testosterone? Yeah. I

    Dr. Cat Brown (24:14):


    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (24:14):

    About that.

    Dr. Cat Brown (24:15):

    Sure. I don't think a lot of women realize that we also have testosterone in our system. You know, a lot of women just focus on their female hormones, but they don't realize that, you know, testosterone really drives our metabolism. It sometimes drives our energy level, helps to combat fatigue, but it really is one of the biggest drivers of our libido and sex drive too. And for us, especially trying to combat osteopenia, osteoporosis, as we age and trying to maintain our bone health and our, our strength and our muscle health, we don't, we don't realize how much testosterone is integral for that as well. And really muscle maintenance, maintaining our strength, I think it's important. And so that's something that, I think is, is something really important for patients to take into account too. And, you know, testosterone, it's, it's one of those things that we have some limitations because testosterone in, in the medical community, and especially in the bodybuilding community, especially for men, it's been so abused and misused.

    Dr. Cat Brown (25:15):

    And I come from a military background, you know, I was an army doctor for much of my career for 12 years. And we had a huge issue with male soldiers coming in because their wives couldn't get pregnant. And they had been taking so much high dose testosterone just for performance enhancing to make them faster, to make them better soldiers, make them run better, and be able to lift more. But then as a pro, as a result, their body wasn't creating its own endogenous testosterone. And so, you know, now as a result of all those abuses, testosterone is considered a controlled substance because with high doses, it can cause more harm than good. So for women, you know, we have to be cognizant of that. But I think that we don't realize that, you know, many pro providers out there don't realize, physicians don't realize that you can safely replenish a woman's testosterone.

    Dr. Cat Brown (26:05):

    You have to be very careful because our therapeutic range for testosterone is a little bit more narrow than it is for a man. We don't wanna, you know, it's, it's like walking a fine line. We wanna replace testosterone, but we don't want to masculinize our female patients either. We don't wanna cause those masculinizing side effects that women can get if they get too much of it. You know, like the male pattern baldness or facial hair growth. You know, most often I see patients come, you know, with changes in their skin and, and more acne develop, you know, as a result of testosterone. So we have to be astute to really fine tuning, like what we're giving patients when it comes to testosterone supplementation,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (26:43):

    Our narrower range for women. And that's why I think testing is so vital. And again, you know, here it's where politics and money, politics and money really rule women's health when it comes to our healthcare. We saw that in terms of Premarin, but also with testosterone, where it's considered a controlled substance because of the abuse by male bodybuilders. To my knowledge. I don't know that female bodybuilders have abused it, but that's possible. But testosterone is just as essential for women as men, right? For our muscle mass, our bone density, osteoporosis, and fractures due to osteoporosis, one of the biggest causes of death and disability of women over 50. It's important for our neurochemistry, our dopamine, our get up and go drive neurotransmitter for our mental clarity, functioning feelings of wellbeing. A lot of people think, assume it's only about libido, doctors and patients alike. And it's about so much more than that. So much

    Dr. Cat Brown (27:45):


    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (27:45):

    Yeah. So I think it's essential. And then, you know, it's also not only a controlled substance, but because of a 17-year-old boy, Ryan Haight, who was able to obtain a controlled substance from another state through telemedicine, it's also very difficult to obtain it through telemedicine. So because of teenage boys and bodybuilders, women's access to this important hormone is limited, and most doctors won't even prescribe it for women. They, I've found a lot of patients come to me and they say that, oh, my doctor told me that I don't need it, and they won't prescribe it. And let's talk a little bit about libido before we wrap up, because that's something, you know, I'm recently back from traveling the globe where one of the things I was really looking at is what is women's healthcare like in other countries and other continents, particularly around menopause.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (28:43):

    And everywhere I went, women over 40 were grabbing me when they heard what I did and sidelining me to tell me they had the same problems as women in the us. And I was really startled to learn that it's global, but I guess I shouldn't be, because as America goes, so goes everywhere else. But women really, this lack of sex drive is a problem globally. Women don't have one. I mean, it's a problem for men too, but a lot of women don't have a libido. They think that that's normal for their age, that they shouldn't have a libido. They don't talk to their doctors about it because they're ashamed and stigmatized. So can you talk a little bit about that?

    Dr. Cat Brown (29:27):

    I think that not enough emphasis has been placed on it, but I also think like, it's so much a, it's a bigger, like, more deeply rooted issue, I think in our, our culture as a society, not just in, in healthcare. But I feel like, you know, there's this double standard, right? You know, that I think it kind of stems back to like that purity culture too. Like, like, you know, women aren't supposed to be sexual beings. Like we're, you know, there's this kind of underlying theme that like everyone wants us to be good and to be well behaved. And so, you know, there's not enough emphasis placed on it. And then meanwhile, you see so much in the media and on the news about women or men's health, you know, and, and we've spent so much time and energy researching erectile dysfunction, <laugh>, and helping men with their situation.

    Dr. Cat Brown (30:12):

    But then we're not helping their partners, especially if they're in a heterosexual relationship. You know, we're, we're helping men get a hard on, but we're not helping their wives be able to be receptive or even interested in having sex at all. It really is back to like women just being treated kind of like second class citizens and not enough emphasis placed on us. I think it's that very misogynistic view of the world, and it kind of is pervasive in healthcare too. I think that not enough importance has been placed on women's health and, and that this is so, so evident when it comes to libido and, and women's sexual health. And I don't even think I knew until getting into taking care of women and perimenopause, menopause and menopause, that there even was like a society for sexual wellness. Like, I just, I just found out about ishish, you know, probably in the last five years, you know, which does extra training for physicians and providers. And as far as their sexual wellness, you know, that wasn't even something that was even discussed when I was being trained to become an ob GYN. And what a shame, because, you know, we're supposed to be the experts when it comes to female genitalia, female organs, reproductive health. But then that part of reproductive health, which is, which is so important and it's such a important part of life and a part of our health, it's not even really discussed, you know, you know, it's

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (31:37):

    So true. And as, as you're talking, I'm thinking if I had to do it over, I literally would specialize in female sexuality because I think it is the most underserved area of obstetrics and gynecology. And so I was thinking, why don't we have fellowships in female sexuality that would be something, you know, just for women to understand. And I think it does come from the religious perspective that most people have of puritanical views, but I think we're growing out of it. You know, I've been watching this show on Netflix called Dating on the Spectrum, which I love. It's so heartwarming,

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (32:17):

    So beautiful. Yeah. And what I love especially is seeing how the younger generation, most of these people are in their twenties, a few are in their thirties, they're open about sexuality and talking about sexuality. And I think that along with that open discussion comes an understanding, hopefully it does for them. I mean, they don't talk about it in this show about the importance of healthy sex for your overall health, vitality, wellbeing, and longevity. Yes, yes. And I think it's really time, you know, it's not too late for women over 40. It's not too late for women over 50, 60, 70. I don't care if you're in age. I think

    Dr. Cat Brown (32:57):

    It's never, it's never too late

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (33:00):

    <Laugh>. It's never too late to have some good sex and get the health benefits. What are some of the health benefits of having regular good sex where you have orgasms? What are some of the health benefits for those who might not be aware?

    Dr. Cat Brown (33:16):

    Well, I think that overall, I mean, what I see is like, you know, a woman's immune system is much stronger when she has regular sex that it's pleasureful. I mean, not only that, but just opening up those pleasure centers in the brain as well. You know, it's fundamental, and when a woman allows themself to really enjoy sex and really puts importance on, on physical pleasure in that way, it gives them so many health benefits and just invigorates their life and invigorates their health too. I mean, women that tend to do that more, are more in touch with their bodies and tend to take better care of themselves than women who don't just, you know, comparing apples to oranges. But I think that not only that, but you know, the old, old saying that like, if you don't use it, you'll lose it, <laugh>. So the more we bring arousal to our female genitalia, the more healthy that tissue becomes, you know, whether it's through masturbation or whether it's through sex with someone else. The more that you use those tissues, the more healthy those tissues become, the more blood flow that they get, the more hormone rich the environment that those tissues get, the more they're, they're used in that way.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (34:29):

    Right. And then it improves your cortisol stress hormone profile. Yes. You know, I call queen cortisol and your overall health is really governed by cortisol. Yes. You know, it was interesting. A, a woman I did a consultation with last week, she had had the BRCA gene, and this is anonymous that I'm talking about this, I won't mention her name. She had had double mastectomy, bilateral ovary removal with a hysterectomy, all kinds of consequences from that. And her main concern was, I have no sex drive. Can you give me a magic pill to fix that? What would you say to a woman who's kind of in that predicament? 'cause I know she's not alone.

    Dr. Cat Brown (35:10):

    Yeah. I think that one of the biggest things is setting expectations. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, and, and there is no one magic pill. I think that fundamentally, as women, our sexuality is so much bigger than that. It's not just a matter of turning a hormone on or off. Our largest sex organ. And the most important sex organ that we have is our brain <laugh>. And so much of our sexuality is emotional and mental, because unlike men, we're wired differently. We have to be in the right mindset. We have to have the self-confidence, self-motivation to even be, allow ourselves to feel romantic or sexual and something that they have to work on and have to really put the effort into cultivating that. It's, it's not just a, a matter of having a magic pill, but sometimes I think as for us as physicians, just opening up that conversation with a patient can be empowering for them just to be able to start having the conversation and just using the language and talking about it gets their mind starting to think about, well, like what can I do to start reframing?

    Dr. Cat Brown (36:18):

    I think that sometimes having those surgeries, you know, having, going through hysterectomy, going through a mastectomy, dealing with either cancer risk or cancer surgery, then puts a woman in a completely different mindset. And they have a hard time thinking about themselves as sexual beings anymore. You know, and a lot of women, there's a, you know, the self-stigma that they place on themselves that, you know, having certain female organs removed changes who they are as women. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it really doesn't. And so we have to help them empower themselves to kind of change that view as well. But, but you have to put the work in, it has to come from multiple angles. I think, you know, we can help with the hormone aspect of it, but then they also have to do the work of that mental mind shift about it too.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (37:04):

    Yes. So true. And, you know, you had given me some great quotes to share before we started. I wanna wrap up and add this one. 'cause It's, I think it's attributed to several PE people, but one of them happens to be Thomas Jefferson, where I went to school at Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia. Knowledge is power. So hopefully you've learned something today, listening that you can use to empower yourself when it comes to hormonal poverty, getting out of it and getting to hormonal prosperity, to experience the vitality that you deserve. Dr. Kat, thank you so much for joining me. Where can people connect with you online and find out more about what you do?

    Dr. Cat Brown (37:46):

    Sure. I have an Instagram account at Dr. Cat obgyn and I do hormonal therapy for patients through Wyn oda, which is by wino.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, although I haven't done much with that profile lately, but <laugh>, I have to do a little bit more. But that's primarily where you can find me.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:03):

    Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and for your path in women's health that hopefully is empowering lots of women. Thank you so much.

    Dr. Cat Brown (38:14):

    Well, thank you so much for having me. It was a great conversation.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:16):

    And thank you for joining me for another episode of The Hormone Prescription. Hopefully you've gotten some different perspectives when it comes to natural or biologically identical hormones. Today. We've talked about testing. There are different opinions as you can see between me and Dr. Kat on whether testing is necessary and accessibility to testosterone and how important that is, and more so. I really think it's important that you take this as a note to educate yourself and make informed decisions that are right for your health. Like the founding father of my alma mater, Thomas Jefferson says, knowledge is power. Hopefully you've gotten some knowledge today that can empower you to make the right choices for yourself so you can move out of midlife metabolic mayhem, prevent disease, increase your lifespan, and get to hormonal prosperity and live the vitality that you deserve. I look forward to hearing about the changes you're making. Reach out to me on social media, so on social media. On social media, and let me know until next week, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

    Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:25):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

    ► Get Dr. Cat Brown's Guide to HRT. It’s a crucial resource for those wanting to understand Hormone Replacement Therapy - CLICK HERE.

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  • Welcome to another empowering episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, the go-to audio haven for midlife women seeking wellness and balance in a demanding world. Today's episode is a deep-dive into an often-overlooked culprit behind disease and chronic pain - our complex brains under the burden of deep stress.

    In This Episode: Join us as we explore with Dr. David Clarke, the profound ways in which deep-seated psychological stress can manifest as physical symptoms. Dr. Clarke, an accomplished physician certified in Internal Medicine and Gastroenterology, shines a light on the intricate link between deep stress, our brain's response, and how this connection may be keeping you from enjoying a life free of pain.

    For years, Dr. Clarke has dedicated his expertise to advancing awareness, diagnosis, and treatment of stress-related and brain-generated medical conditions, striving to quell the chronic pain epidemic. As President of the Psychophysiologic Disorders Association (PPDA), he is at the forefront of transforming lives through education and support.

    Key Takeaways:

    Uncover why your unexplained aches might be rooted in emotional trauma or long-buried stress.Learn about the crucial role of psychophysiologic disorders in chronic pain syndromes.Discover practical tips on identifying stress-induced pain and how to address it effectively.Gain insights into Dr. Clarke's holistic approach that goes beyond medications to heal the mind-body connection.

    Professional Insight:

    Armed with an MD from the University of Connecticut School of Medicine and a wealth of clinical experience, Dr. Clarke's professional insights are a beacon of hope for those battling unseen stress-induced health struggles.

    A Message to Our Listeners:

    Dear listener, if you've been searching for answers to the mystery of your unresolved pain, this episode could be the key. Dr. Clarke's expertise offers not just knowledge, but also the compassion and understanding so vital during the healing process.


    Join the Conversation:

    We welcome you to share your thoughts and breakthrough moments from this episode on our social media channels. Use the hashtag #HormonePrescriptionPodcast to join the growing community of women empowering themselves through knowledge and shared experiences.

    Remember, wellness is not just about hormones. It's also about the mind and its powerful impact on our bodies. Tune in, tap into newfound wisdom, and transform your life one episode at a time.

    Until next time, stay inspired, say goodbye to chronic pain, and hello to a vibrant you!

    Dr. Kyrin (00:00):

    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer, stay tuned to find out about something that is self-evident to some of us practitioners, but your doctor might not be aware that could be hurting your health and your hormones.

    Dr. Kyrin (00:24):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Dr. Kyrin (01:17):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive in with Dr. David Clark into a discussion about deep stress and your brain causing chronic disease, chronic pain, hurting your hormones and lots more. This really is self-evident to a lot of physicians like me and Dr. Clark, but most physicians haven't gotten the memo when they went through med school and training. They didn't get the memo on this. They weren't trained in this. So they're probably not aware if you're going to a typical managed care physician. They also don't necessarily have the time to spend with you to discern if these issues could be contributing to your health problem. So I think this is a super important topic. I'm glad you're here to hear it. Dr. Clark has deep knowledge and experience in treating patients, in research, in teaching medical students and residents about these issues, and it really can benefit your health and your hormones.

    Dr. Kyrin (02:29):

    So I'll tell you a little bit about him and then we'll get started. So he's a board certified internal medicine specialist and gastroenterologist, and he is the founder of the Psychophysiologic Disorders Association, PPDA. He's got some resources to share with you. His website is end chronic pain org. And he's very modest because in his bio that he shared with me before we started, and then I did my research online, I found all the books that he has authored and co-authored and all the resources that he has for you. So he's the author or co-author of Psychophysiologic Disorders. He is an author of a diagnostic guide for Psychophysiologic disorders, that's for practitioners. He is the author of, they Can't Find Anything Wrong, Seven Keys to Understanding Treating and Healing Stress Illness. But none of this was in his bio <laugh>. So he's, he's very modest, but like I said, he has deep knowledge and the time has really come that all doctors should know about the effect of ACEs and deep stress on their patient's health, but they just don't. So it's your turn. You've gotta take responsibility for your health to educate yourself about this and to put it into practice, to use your, in your health to move it towards the best it can be because you only get one life and you deserve to have the best health and best life and best vitality possible. So that's Dr. David Clark. Please help me welcome him to the show.

    Dr. David (04:15):

    Great to be with you. Thank you.

    Dr. Kyrin (04:16):

    Yes. I know we're talking about your favorite topic today and hopefully we'll tie it into my favorite topic, which is hormones. And hormones and pain, chronic pain are interrelated. If you're listening and you're not sure why you're scratching your head saying, Dr. Karen, I don't understand that. Hopefully it'll make more sense for you at the end of the episode. But first I wanna dive in . You are certified in internal medicine and gastroenterology, but you have this passion for psychophysiologic disorders. If you're not sure what that is and you're listening, just stay tuned. We'll, we'll, we'll define that for you. And most doctors certified in internal medicine, practicing everyday internal medicine and gastroenterology really don't have an interest in this, they may not have knowledge or awareness of what you specialize in. I know that you do educate practitioners, which is wonderful because we need to have more awareness. How did you become aware that this was a huge blind spot for US physicians when it comes to treating patients and become so passionate about it?

    Dr. David (05:28):

    Well, like you, I was very traditionally trained. I mean, I went through four years of medical school and three years of internal medicine residency entirely. Traditionally, things were going well for me in terms of my training, but all of a sudden I encountered a patient. I didn't know the first thing about how to diagnose or treat this was in the eighth year, you know, when I was a first year as a gastroenterology fellow. And this patient had been ill for two years, with very severe physical symptoms, actually referred to UCLA where I was in training from another university because they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her. We did a very specialized test on the electromechanical properties of the intestine to try to figure out what her problem was. And we were my department chair and I, we were convinced that that test was gonna be abnormal because no other explanation was possible as far as we were concerned.

    Dr. David (06:21):

    And so when that test was normal, two we're just at a loss and we had to essentially tell the patient there was nothing more we could do for her. But in her exit interview, I asked her about stress a few more times, and she began telling me she'd been sexually abused as a girl and not just once or twice, but hundreds of times. And this obviously was a huge piece of history from her background that I didn't think could possibly be connected to why she was physically ill 25 years later. But it definitely stood out and I was aware that there was a psychiatrist in our institution who had an interest in these mind to body connections. And I thought, well, maybe we can help this patient live with her condition a little more successfully if she talks to this psychiatrist. So I arranged an appointment, forgot all about her, and then I ran into the psychiatrist in an elevator a few months later and said, you know, whatever happened to that patient that I referred to you?

    Dr. David (07:19):

    And she said, oh, I haven't seen her in a few weeks now, Dave she's fine. She's, you know, no longer needs any medical care. All of her symptoms have completely resolved. And this happened just with a few months of counseling. And at that point, that just blew my mind that you could alleviate a serious physical condition just by talking to somebody. So I thought, okay, you know, if I'm gonna be a complete doctor, I should learn a little bit about how to do this. It might come in handy for a few patients every year when I get into practice. So I prevailed on Dr. Kaplan to give me a framework for how she thought about these things. And then when I did get into practice, I started using this framework whenever I couldn't find a disease or an injury that would explain the patient's symptoms and patient after patient had these deep psychosocial stresses that were going on that were connected to their illness, if you could identify them, if you could treat them, the patient's physical symptoms would improve. And unfortunately, in Portland, Oregon where I was in practice, there were no other Dr. Kaplan's there. So I ended up doing a lot of this work myself, and today we're 7,000 plus patients later than I've been doing this with. And I've been teaching other doctors how to do this because you can, it's readily possible to learn how to do this, and it just transforms your practice. This was one third of my patients for decades.

    Dr. Kyrin (08:47):

    Right. Well, thank you for sharing that. I, I think it's always fascinating how, why people do what they do, why they're so passionate about it, particularly when it comes to physicians who have gone off the beaten path, the mainstream of medicine where most gastro neurologists are just typically prescribing drugs and surgery, and nobody's asking about people's adverse childhood experiences, deep stress, et cetera. So hopefully that gives everybody an idea of the question of why this is important. Maybe there's somebody listening who's been struggling with undiagnosed medical illness. What are some of the statistics on undiagnosed medical illness and why is this such a huge problem?

    Dr. David (09:31):

    Yeah, we're talking here about people who go to the doctor for their pain or illness and no disease or injury is found to explain it. Or if the doctor thinks, well, maybe this issue could be explaining your illness, but you're not improving in the way the doctor expects, and that's the time we want to bring in a look at psychosocial stresses, either from the past or the present or both that could be contributing. And it turns out that when you look at the research, it's about 40% of people that go to a primary care physician or about 20% of the adult population in general. So this is 80% larger than the diabetic population, for example. And yet, unfortunately, it's not been part of traditional training. It's kind of like the medical clinicians are saying, well, this is a a psychological problem. This is really not in our ballpark. And the mental health professionals are saying, well, these patients have physical symptoms, they've got real pain, they've got irritable bowel or fibromyalgia or migraines or pelvic pain or genital pain or joint or back pain. And that's not really a mental health problem. So we don't deal with this either. And these patients fall into a giant blind spot in this system. It's 50 million people in the United States alone.

    Dr. Kyrin (10:50):

    So how would somebody who's listening know if they have a chronic illness that remains undiagnosed or chronic pain? You talk about stress related brain generated symptoms versus traditional pain and disease. How does someone even begin to sort out, is this me? Could this be affecting me?

    Dr. David (11:10):

    Yeah, it certainly starts with having a medical evaluation to make sure there's no organ disease or injury that's responsible. And then after that, we're looking into whether there could be a psychosocial stress behind this. And there are three main categories for that. There could be stress in your life at the moment, especially if it's chronologically linked to when and where your symptoms began or when and where your symptoms flare up. The second major issue is to make sure you don't have a mental health condition that hasn't been diagnosed. A lot of people with depression, anxiety, or post-trauma stress don't fully recognize that their symptoms are linked to that depression. Those mental health conditions can be subtle in many people and not so obvious as to have you running straight to a mental health professional. And then finally, the biggest shock of my medical education was finding out that stress when you were a child, could make you ill as an adult.

    Dr. David (12:09):

    The question that I like to ask my patients here is, imagine you were a butterfly on the wall of your childhood home and you were observing a child you care about growing up in the same home that you grew up in and you can't do anything. You're just watching that kid try to cope. Would it make you sad or angry to watch that child either your own or another one you have a connection to make you sad or angry to watch that kid trying to cope in that environment. And if it would, then there's a probability that there's a level of stress that went on back then it can still be impacting you today, including in the form of physical symptoms.

    Dr. Kyrin (12:47):

    So I wanna ask you a couple of questions about what you just shared. So you said they need to make sure they don't have any type of organ disease or a mental health diagnosis, but in reality you can have organ disease functional like a Crohn's or ulcerative colitis with an actual organ problem, and you still could be related to stress and brain issues. Correct?

    Dr. David (13:12):

    Well, you can have a combination of impact on your body from stress, from brain generated symptoms and a biomedical condition like Crohn's disease at the same time. And that's, that can be a really confusing situation for a physician. If you've got a flare up of symptoms, you need to then sort out, is it the inflammatory bowel disease is flaring up or is it the irritable bowel syndrome that's more directly connected to stress that's flaring up. And sometimes you have to do more diagnostic tests to see if the inflammation is more active, or you can evaluate the patient and see if there's a stress that has come up in their life that has triggered the flare up in the symptoms. So yeah, there can be people who have both of these conditions at the same time. Right.

    Dr. Kyrin (14:01):

    And same, I guess with the mental health diagnosis. And you talk about adverse childhood experiences, which we've talked a bit about on the podcast, but I think it bears repeating. And you mentioned a term though I had not heard called deep stress. So can you talk about what is deep stress and maybe talk to everyone about how they would know if they qualified to have adverse childhood experiences or not? I know you gave a great example there. If you look back at your childhood, would you think, wow, that was really a lot to handle, but what is deep stress?

    Dr. David (14:36):

    I use the term deep stress to mean stresses that people don't fully recognize they have. So they're kind of deeply buried stresses that may be affecting a person today, but they're not fully recognizing the magnitude of that stress. One of my patients, for example, was put into my hospital because of an attack of severe vomiting and extreme dizziness. And when I went to see her for consultation, she said something to me, I've never heard from any other patient, which was, thank you for coming, doctor, but don't waste your time with me. You'd be better off seeing your other patients. And when I asked her why it turned out she had good reason to say that she had been hospitalized at a major university in her hometown 60 times over the previous 15 years with no diagnosis. She had seen a dozen different specialists, she had seen a psychiatrist and none of them could find anything wrong with her.

    Dr. David (15:31):

    But it turned out that she had a major stress in her life, which turned out to be that her mother had verbally and emotionally abused her, starting when she was three or four years old and continuing on to the present day. She was 50 years old at the time, her mother was in her seventies and was still doing this to her. So it also turned out that, and this was the, the real key to her diagnosis. But although most of her attacks of illness, which she had between six and 10 times a year, took place in and around her home community, she would always get an attack whenever she passed through a little town, about 45 minutes from where she lived. But it turned out the only time she ever went through that little town was when she was on her way to visit her mother, who lived several hours further down the road.

    Dr. David (16:21):

    So she's driving to visit her mom, the emotional tension in that relationship is building and building and building. And by the time she gets to this little town, her husband's gotta pull a car over and she's throwing up all over the guardrail. So I pointed out to her that the only time she got sick was when she was on her way to visit her mother. She could drive 45 minutes in any other direction and she'd be fine. She could drive an hour and 45 minutes in any other direction and she wouldn't have any problem. So that finally made clear to her what this deep stress was that she hadn't previously recognized. And as soon in her case, just bringing that into conscious awareness was enough to alleviate her illness. She went home from the hospital the next day and she called me a year later, say, she'd gone through the entire year with no episodes. Now I wish I could cure everybody that quickly, but it's a really good example of deep stress and the impact it can have when you finally see what's going on.

    Dr. Kyrin (17:22):

    Right. And so what you're describing though, in terms of the physician interaction really requires a level of attention and curiosity and a level of time commitment to really sort through these issues with people that most physicians are not allotted by the current managed care system that we have. And we're not trained in that. So I know that you have so many resources, books you've authored and training programs for practitioners. I don't know that the medical curriculum has changed since I went through medical school. Are you, or residency, but how do you suspect that we're going to actually get physicians, the education and training and give them the time to be able to sort through these issues with patients?

    Dr. David (18:13):

    Yeah, once you see these issues, you sort of can't unsee them. And it's true that the, you know, medical office visits these days are very short. But as I tell my audiences of physicians when I'm teaching, you don't have to gather all this information in one visit. You can get the information you need about stresses passed and present a little at a time, because these are patients that tend to keep coming back to your office because they don't get better with the traditional approaches. So you gather this information over time, and the physicians I've taught to do this they absolutely love it. It transforms their practice. So one of them mm-hmm, <affirmative>, a family doctor, took me aside at a conference and said, these concepts have put the joy back into my work because all of a sudden you've got 40% of the people who are coming through the door to see you.

    Dr. David (19:04):

    That used to be a headbanging frustrating because you didn't know what to do for them. Now all of a sudden you have a positive approach that you can take that actually makes people better. Not necessarily in one hour conversation like with the last patient, but definitely over time people can see they're on a pathway toward improving their use of healthcare resources goes way down. You know, you asked about, you know, what patients can do to assess themselves. I should have mentioned we've got a self-assessment quiz on my nonprofits website. It's at end chronic pain.org. There's a 12 item self-assessment quiz. And it's set up so that the more questions to which you answer yes, the more likely it is that you have one of these psychophysiologic disorders. A combination of psychology and physiology. And that's a way that your listeners can find out or at least get more information about whether this might apply to them.

    Dr. Kyrin (20:01):

    Yes. Something else you said though, that this woman had been emotionally abused by her mother in my experience. So this applies to a great quote that you shared with me from Schauer before we started that I wanna share with everyone. All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. And I love that because I, I don't know which stage we're in with the topics that you're talking about where deep stress, adverse childhood experience, and we're probably in the, maybe it's a little ridiculed by a lot of people. That's not an issue. And in my experience, and in a lot of the women that I work with, thousands of women, if you say, were you emotionally abused? Were you sexually abused? Did you have abuse? Did you have neglect as a child?

    Dr. Kyrin (20:51):

    I find that a majority of people who grew up in fairly cohesive, what I would call seemingly functional families, have no awareness actually, that they were emotionally abused, but they were, and maybe they have no memory of sexual abuse, but they were. And so I do find when I encounter patients, 'cause this is something I'm attuned to, and there are certain issues going on that have no medical explanation, and I approached these subjects, their answer is, oh no, I, my family was fine. I didn't have any problems. But if you ask more pointed questions to get to specific statements that people may have made or how people were available to them or not emotionally really in the terms of the emotional arena, people have a huge amount of denial is what I'm gonna say.

    Dr. David (21:42):

    You're right.

    Dr. Kyrin (21:44):

    So how do you, we've been socialized in America and most developed countries to believe that our body is a machine and it's a mechanical machine. When there's a problem, well, we go to the doctor to get a diagnosis, just like we take our car to the mechanic and then they figure out what's wrong and they give us a pill or they do a surgery and they fix us. And nowhere in my training or any, I just did my board recertification this year, we have to do it every year. And none of the articles on women's health had anything to do with what you and I are talking about when you and I both know that the issues we're talking about have deep consequences in terms of health for women in terms of their fertility and their menstrual regularity, their menopause, et cetera. So how do you get people out of denial and to really realize that this is a part of the problem and realize that what they did experience, although it might not have been horrific, like you see in some TV shows and movies, actually was neglectful and was an adverse childhood experience. And was Dr. Deep stress

    Dr. David (22:49):

    Wow, a lot to unpack there. Yes, with the Schopenhauer quote, I mean, it depends on, you know, who you talk to. But the acceptance now is really coming on. I mean, there, I'm teaching in my medical school, I'm teaching in graduate schools, and there are medical schools in Europe that are teaching this now. One of two of them are actually using my first book called They can't find anything wrong as a teaching tool, especially for their family doctors. So the acceptance is really growing. It, it's, we need more for acceptance than just me telling stories about my patients. And we have that. Now in 2024, there are half a dozen randomized controlled trials that show the value of what I call pain relief psychology or what another researcher is called, pain recovery psychology, that have compared it with a variety of placebo control groups and the, the power of the outcomes, the effect size, which is the, the statistical term is enormous for when you compare it in terms of the outcomes.

    Dr. David (23:55):

    One of the studies called the Boulder Back Pain Study, for example, they had people with 10 years of back pain. Their average pain scores were four out of 10. And with just one month of pain relief psychology, their average pain scores dropped from four to one. And this is after a decade, these people had been suffering. And, one month it just plummets. It's extraordinary to see the graph. It was published in the JAMA Psychiatry Journal of the American Medical Association. And the benefits were enormous. And we got similar results at Harvard, at the West Los Angeles VA Hospital where they worked with a very tough group of older male veterans, 5% of whom got better with cognitive behavioral therapy, which is the usual kind of psychotherapy that you get in the us. But with the new pain relief psychology, 42% achieved their pain goal.

    Dr. David (24:51):

    I mean, it was eight times as much. It's just extraordinary to see that kind of impact just from talking to people in a different way. So coming onto your question about how do we make people aware that their childhood experience was maybe not quite so good as they thought, because you know, after all, none of us has a parallel life we can compare ourselves with. If you grow up in a difficult environment, you may not necessarily appreciate how difficult it was. So this brings me back to that same idea of, you know, imagine a child that you care about growing up in the same household you did, dealing with everything you had to deal with, and you are just watching it as a passive observer. How are you feeling when you're watching that kid you care about try to cope? One of my patients was a, you know, person known to the public whom I was talking about this with.

    Dr. David (25:47):

    And she said, no, my childhood was really not that bad. Other people have been through much worse than I have. It turned out her parents fought with each other almost every day. Not physically, but verbally and emotionally, and she was an only child. So she took on the role of peacemaker and then her parents got divorced when she was age eight, which you would think would, you know, be a partial solution to her problem. But unfortunately, they kept living in the same house. They slept in several bedrooms, but you know, they still were fighting with each other. So from her perspective, it didn't do her any good at all. And she's telling me, no, this really wasn't so bad. So I said, okay, you have this beloved niece, a four or five, 6-year-old girl. You love this girl. You take her on with you on weekends and do fun things with her.

    Dr. David (26:32):

    You're just devoted to this little girl. Imagine her, your niece in that household, and you can only watch, you're watching your niece try to cope with your parents. What is that gonna be like for you? And she just stared at me. She was, you know, somebody who was very verbal, could carry on her end of a conversation all day long that just brought her to a halt. And she went on for a couple of minutes just pondering that idea. And then at the end she said, you know, after a week of watching that I would shoot myself. And that was the first time she had truly recognized just how difficult it really was. And that was the start of her treatment, which was successful. She had half a dozen different symptoms in her body for the last 20 years, and within a matter of months they were gone.

    Dr. Kyrin (27:21):

    I love that question. I think it's beautiful. I actually went through and took your quiz before we did the interview because I wanted to see what the questions were. And that question is on there. And I think that helps someone step out, I think people are very worried about blaming their parents and they don't wanna do that. And so that hence the denial. Most of us really appreciate all that our parents have done for us. And you know, even if there were difficulties, but when you step out as an observer and say, well, yeah, if there were a child like you, your patient said, I, I would shoot myself then, you know, and there really is no one to blame because they're only doing what they were taught by their parents and their parents and their parents and their parents.

    Dr. David (28:03):

    So they do the best they can.

    Dr. Kyrin (28:05):

    They do the best they can. So thank you for explaining that. And so people can also identify what are some of the most common symptoms that we're talking about?

    Dr. David (28:16):

    Yeah, I'm glad you asked 'cause we hadn't mentioned that it's literally head to toe. You can have pain symptoms and non-pain symptoms. So migraines ring in the ears, difficulty swallowing, visual disturbances, pseudo seizures, pain in the temporomandibular joint of the jaw. Neck pain, low back pain is a big one. Approximately 88% of low back pain is psychophysiologic in nature according to a recent study. Chest pain, abdominal pain, pelvic genital joint, difficulty breathing, unexplained cough, irritable bowel syndrome, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel can cause diarrhea, constipation, nausea, vomiting, bloating, indigestion, numbness and tingling in the extremities. The, the only common denominator is that people tend to have more than one symptom at a time. The more symptoms you have, the more likely it is a psychophysiologic cause is what's going on. And there's lots more that I haven't even thought to mention. Functional neurological disorder is another one. A lot of people with hypermobility disorder like Aler Danlos get all kinds of symptoms attributed to Aler Danlos that probably are not from the Aler Danlos. They're actually from psychophysiologic disorder.

    Dr. Kyrin (29:37):

    And so how are these symptoms triggered and why is understanding this so important to treatment?

    Dr. David (29:44):

    Well, the symptoms can be triggered by a particular stress that this happens most often in my patients with post-trauma, that they've been through some kind of terrifying or horrifying event. And then, the symptoms begin soon thereafter, or it could be the trauma was quite a number of years in the past, but some triggering event has happened that leads to the development of the symptoms. But sometimes the symptoms can just appear for seemingly no reason as part of the recovery process from adverse childhood experiences. For example, my very first patient, she was averaging one bowel movement per month despite taking four different laxatives at double the usual doses. And it just started when she was 35. She was the one who had been sexually abused hundreds of times. Nobody had touched her against her will for close to 25 years. But the illness just began in midlife.

    Dr. David (30:40):

    And why is that? Well, it turns out that there's a recovery process from childhood adversity, and at some point people reached a level where a lot of the buried emotions begin to come knocking on the door. She had a tremendous amount of outrage about how she'd been treated as a girl, but it had been repressed. In order to survive her childhood, she had to repress it. But in the middle of her thirties, it was finally time for her to confront this and deal with it. But the anger couldn't find a way into her conscious awareness. So instead it manifested in her body. And the psychiatrist, Dr. Kaplan helped her to recognize how much anger she had begun to talk about, putting it into words. And the more you can put repressed emotions into words, the less they have to express themselves via the body. And these can be not just anger, but I've had patients with fear, shame, guilt, grief, that we're responsible instead of anger.

    Dr. Kyrin (31:39):

    Yeah, I love that. I really think that the body is our subconscious mind and it will out picture anything that we don't acknowledge or feel, feel, feel consciously. Absolutely. And so, right, if we deny it, then our body has to express it. And that's probably an illness or pain. But when we acknowledge it and feel it and process it, then the body says, oh, thank you for doing your job so that I don't have to bring it to your attention. And I really see all dis-ease in the body as a signal. Yes, there could be some biochemical or anatomic problem if it's progressed, but it's really stemming from a lot of these emotional and psychological issues. And you talk about the effectiveness of what you call pain relief psychology for alleviating deep stress. And it consists of personality traits, triggers, and unrecognized emotions from ACEs. Can you talk a little bit more about what pain relief psychology is?

    Dr. David (32:40):

    Yeah, you bet. What it's all about is uncovering the stresses that a person has in their life, whether they are in the present day. I mean, a very simple example was a patient of mine who only got his pain when he was driving to work. When he was driving home from work, he was fine on the weekends when he was not at work, he was fine too <laugh>. So we kind of focused on, all right, what's going on at work? And, you know, that was a huge stress going on. So that was a very simple example. But more complicated is we're, we're trying to look at the long-term consequences of ACEs and the repressed emotions is a big one there. But we can also look at personality traits. Many people who've been through ACEs cope with those issues by developing certain personality traits. Their self-esteem, for one, is likely to be harmed and likely to be much lower than it deserves to be.

    Dr. David (33:30):

    Kids trying to cope with adversity oftentimes become very detail oriented, perfectionists. They tend not to be very assertive. They tend to focus on the needs of other people to the exclusion of putting themselves on the list of people. They take care of a whole long list of these personality traits that can be very stressful. But when you find out how you develop those personality traits, where they came from, who taught you these things about yourself that are not true, like, you know, you're a second rate or unworthy human being, and how did they teach those things to you? And we can understand that better. And that facilitates making changes in those personality traits, which then leads to a reduction in stress level. And then finally, I like to pay attention to triggers in someone's life. These are people, situations or events that are in some way linked to the past and are therefore very emotionally triggering.

    Dr. David (34:26):

    And the, the most common of those by far is that there's an ace perpetrator, you know, one of your parents usually that's still in your life today and is still mistreating you in some way. And that can lead to reactions in the body. One of my more dramatic examples of that is a patient who was hospitalized for a total of 51 days for her symptoms over a nine month period of time. And none of the many people who evaluated her asked her if anything stressful had happened right before she became ill. And it turned out that yes, something stressful had happened, which was that her father had a stroke and he was calling upon her for support. 3, 4, 5 days a week she'd be in his house helping him out. And this was a huge problem for her because she'd been avoiding her father for most of her adult life.

    Dr. David (35:18):

    And when I asked her why, she told me this story that nobody else had heard up to that point, which was that when she was six years old and her little brother was four, mom and dad had gone off to Las Vegas for a long weekend and she was staying with aunt and uncle on the Sunday that mom and dad were due to come back. They called up the aunt and uncle and they said, we're getting a divorce and we're not coming back. And that was the last she saw of her parents for the next 20 years. So there was, you know, enormous emotional tension in that relationship. Vinny has a stroke and she feels obligated as the daughter to go and help him out. But when she does that, and only is it difficult to be in his presence, as you might imagine, he's critical. If she doesn't do things exactly the way he wants her to, you know, you'd think he'd be grateful, but instead he doesn't hesitate to criticize her, which just twists the knife a little more. And not too surprising that she became physically ill in this situation, but nobody else had thought to delve into the possibility that her brain might be causing these symptoms, which are, if I haven't pointed it out yet, they're absolutely as real as symptoms from any other cause.

    Dr. Kyrin (36:30):

    You know, I love the examples you're giving. I think everyone's getting a really good idea. Wow, this could be me. My parents were divorced. I had just situations that are very adversarial and negative in our lives, but I think there's not a lot, a lot of acknowledgement about the emotional impact and now everybody's learning the physical impact. It was so interesting. I was recently traveling and I was in Dubai and I was having a problem with my right shoulder and arm, and I went to a physiotherapist and he did a bunch of manipulations, which really helped. And I started talking to him about emotions related to the different muscles and right arm, and it relates to the father's representation and all these things that I've studied over the years. And he said, what are you talking about <laugh>? He said he didn't know what I was talking about.

    Dr. Kyrin (37:21):

    And I said, well, you know, emotions can be stored in the body in different parts of the body or associated with different emotions. And he didn't, wasn't aware of this. But like you say, once you see it, you can't unsee it. So if you're listening to this, you're now having information that maybe your practitioners aren't aware of that you are going to be aware of, and you can start looking at your life. Wow, when do I get those migraines? Oh, let me see. It's about a couple days before this, such and such family members come to visit every time. And do I get stomach aches on the way to work? And there's some periodicity or relatedness to how you're living your life and the symptoms you're having. And when you start to sort that out, you can't unsee it. So how would someone get started? They can take your quiz. It might be possible that their practitioner is not versed in this. So how do you suggest that people get started having a proper assessment of pain relief psychology or I would say disease relief psychology? How do they go about doing this?

    Dr. David (38:29):

    Great place to start is with your physician to make sure that there's not a biomedical cause that you don't have an organ disease or an injury that could, the doctor thinks maybe there's a connection there, but you're not improving in the way that they expect. That would be another time to look and see if this psychophysiologic process could be contributing to your condition. And that 12 item quiz is a great place to start because it's got a lot of educational elements in it that can show you how some of these ideas might apply to you. And if they do, then we've got a lot of resources on the website that people can, it's end chronic pain.org that can help people delve into this more. There's a course on, there's several courses on there. Some of them are video, some of them are primarily text that can give you more information because information is the treatment here.

    Dr. David (39:23):

    The more you understand how this works, the more you understand how it applies to you, the more that you can do things to lead to improvement. This one of the techniques might be if you had an ace perpetrator in your life as a kid, writing a letter to that person. It's very challenging, as you pointed out earlier, to recognize that you might have some negative emotions towards someone that you also care about. And sorting that out, writing a letter to put those thoughts and feelings in there, both good and bad, not not to mail the letter just as an exercise, to write it as a way to take emotions and thoughts and feelings and put them into words that are written down that can pull ideas out of your head that you didn't necessarily know were there. And the more that you're able to do that, the less those things need to express themselves via the body.

    Dr. David (40:16):

    That's one of the techniques. There are apps for this that are very evidence-based, that one of them is called curable, that I recommend to patients. There are self-help books about this. We've got textbooks for healthcare professionals, but even the textbooks are written without jargon because we wanted the medical clinicians to be able to read the psychological material and vice versa. And one of the benefits of that is that if you're a science oriented reader, you can read one of these textbooks and get a lot out of it. I, I know psychophysiologic relief therapists who are prescribing even textbooks to their patients.

    Dr. Kyrin (40:56):

    Oh, I love that. Yeah. So definitely go to the website, we'll have the link in the show notes and take the quiz and start to investigate this. I mean, honestly, I think if you have any chronic condition, you could benefit from this. Definitely get a proper evaluation from your regular doctor. You might wanna also consider a functional approach, which I am particularly passionate about, and we often are able to fix and find root causes that mainstream medicine isn't able to address. But this even in a, from a functional perspective, is something that I think everybody should look into. I would be remiss if I didn't mention how this ties into hormones. And so briefly, because we're running out of time, I'm just gonna say that it ties in most likely to your cortisol stress hormone. 'cause We're talking about deep stress, we're talking about adverse childhood experiences, and this is going to deal with your HPA axis, hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis, which relates to your cortisol. So if you were wondering, Hey, Dr. Karen, are you gonna tie this into hormones? There we did it. Bam, <laugh> <laugh>,

    Dr. David (42:04):

    Yeah, it's an additional source of stress on top of everything else. Yeah.

    Dr. Kyrin (42:08):

    Yeah. So Dr. Clark, any parting words before we wrap up?

    Dr. David (42:13):

    You know, I'll just say the bottom line here is that the brain can generate symptoms in the body, and these symptoms are every bit as real and can be every bit as severe as symptoms from any other cause. So if you're looking for the body's defects as an explanation for the symptoms and you're not finding it, then think about whether the brain could be generating these symptoms. You know, a a classic example is phantom limb pain where somebody's had an amputation and yet they feel pain at the site where the limb is, you know, no longer exists. That pain is being generated in the brain and it is very powerful. I mean, it has put some of my patients in the hospital, one of my patients was a 17-year-old who I was asked to see on their 70th day in the hospital.

    Dr. David (43:02):

    They were getting 10 milligrams of morphine an hour. You know, for a kid this size, five or 10 milligrams would be enough to treat the pain of a fractured leg for your patient's. Not familiar with morphine doses. This patient was getting 10 milligrams every hour. That was when we found the stress, we treated it successfully, and the patient was off of the hospital in a week and off of all opioids in 30 days. So just being aware that the brain can do this and the brain does this because of stress, which may be deep stress, it may be stress you don't fully recognize, it may be stress from far in the past. So start looking for those things. Use the quiz to help you find what those things might be. And then finally, effective treatment is available. We've got half a dozen randomized controlled trials now published in very rigorous journals that show dramatic benefits when these underlying issues are brought into the open and dealt with successfully. Yes.

    Dr. Kyrin (44:00):

    And when you go take the quiz, when you get your results in your email, there's a resource page that Dr. Clark has with all kinds of books and just a plethora of resources. So you'll have lots there to help you on your way. Thank you so much, Dr. Clark, for joining me today.

    Dr. David (44:19):

    Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure speaking with you.

    Dr. Kyrin (44:22):

    And I'll just wrap up by sharing another quote that you shared with me before we started recording. I'll leave everyone with this because I think it really gets to the heart of what we're talking about. And it is from Rita Cheren, who's also a doctor, and it is the work of medicine. Inconsiderable part rests on the doctor's ability to listen to the stories that patients tell, to make sense of those often chaotic narratives of illness, to inspect and evaluate the listener's response to the story told to understand what these narratives mean and to be moved by them. I hope that you are inspired to look at your own possible deep stress and adverse childhood experiences and how it might be impacting your health to take the quiz, to educate yourself. I really think that this is the next frontier that in the future at some date will be self-evident.

    Dr. Kyrin (45:19):

    That of course, doctors need to be addressing this with their patients. But as long as you are here and you know about it, you can use this information to take action on your own behalf. You don't have to wait for your doctors to catch up. You can get the help that's available to you now. So something to think about. Look forward to hearing your thoughts. Reach out to me on social media and let me know what your thoughts are about this and how it's helped you. I'll see you again next week. Thanks so much for joining me. Until then, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

    Dr. Kyrin (45:54):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

    ► 12 item Self Assessment Questionnaire for brain-generated pain or illness by Dr. David Clarke.

    This 12-item questionnaire is designed to improve understanding of your pain or illness. The more questions to which you answer ‘Yes’, the more likely it is that a brain-to-body disorder (a Psychophysiologic Disorder or PPD) is contributing significantly to your condition. For any concerns raised by these questions, we recommend discussion with a medical or mental health professional.

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  • In this pivotal episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, your host unlocks the secret link between spinal health and hormonal balance with none other than the spine whisperer himself, Dr. Ryan Wohlfert.

    Dr. Wohlfert isn't just any expert; he's a titan in the realm of spinal wellness—a Certified Mindset Specialist, Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician, and a master in the esteemed art of Chiropractic BioPhysics®. With over 23 years of transforming lives through education and renowned clinical practice, he returns to the podcast with an invigorating discussion on Essential Spinal Hygiene for Your Hormonal Function & Vitality.

    Key Insights From This Episode:

    The Spine-Hormone Connection: Dr. Ryan unravels how the spine directly influences our hormonal symphony and why maintaining spinal integrity can sing health into our lives.A Lifetime of Vitality: Discover Dr. Ryan's spinal correction protocol, a groundbreaking approach that has helped alleviate chronic pain and fend off dysfunction and disease for thousands.Beyond Manipulation: Learn how specific spinal care goes a step further than traditional chiropractic work, empowering not just relief, but a total revival of energy and endurance.The Pillars of Pain-Free Living: Dr. Ryan shares his wisdom on how simple, daily spinal hygiene practices can liberate you from the grips of medication and pave the way for a lifetime of vibrant, pain-free living.Mindset Matters: Embark on a mindset makeover that aligns your spinal health goals with success, as Dr. Wohlfert elaborates on how mental fortitude underpins physical wellbeing.

    Dr. Ryan's Mantra for Listeners: "Your spine is the conduit of life energy. Nourish it, and it will nourish every cell in your body. Neglect it, and wellness will elude you. It's that simple, and it's that miraculous."

    Stay tuned as Dr. Ryan leads us through the intricacies of spinal hygiene and its paramount role in nurturing our hormonal health—not just for today, but for a future brimming with vitality.

    And remember, your pathway to hormone harmony might just begin with a healthy spine.

    Speaker 1 (00:00):

    You don't have to do anything except deal with the consequences of your choices. Dr. Ryan Wohlfert, stay tuned to find out what you're not doing for your spine that could be affecting your hormones and your health.

    Speaker 2 (00:14):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Speaker 1 (01:08):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive in with Dr. Ryan Wohlfert to talk about the spine and spinal hygiene. I know you're thinking my spine takes care of itself. I don't need to do anything for it. You need to think again, <laugh>, you really do. Your spine needs TLC. It is your backbone. It houses what your central nervous system, your brain, brings to the rest of your body. And a lot of us, many of us may have problems with it in our lifetime, overt or surreptitious, but it can cause problems in the long run if you're not doing some simple things like you brush your teeth every day and floss, right? There are things you need to do for your spine, but you know, it's pretty obvious when you have a tooth problem because you get a toothache or your teeth turn yellow or you get bad breath or right.

    Speaker 1 (02:03):

    It's pretty obvious, but you're probably not gonna have the obvious signs from your spine until a problem is down the line and has become more severe. And there's some simple things you can do for your spine, just like brushing your teeth and flossing that you can do for your spine and why that's super important. So, Dr. Ryan's gonna dive in with us on that topic. He has some great quotes, <laugh>, like the one that I shared with you in the beginning, and he really has a deep knowledge of this subject and can speak about it in a really down to earth, practical way. I think you're gonna enjoy it. So without further ado, I will tell you a little about Dr. Ryan and then we'll get started. So, he's a certified mindset specialist. Love that. He is a certified chiropractic sports physician and certified chiropractic biophysics physician. He uses a specific spinal correction protocol to help patients resolve chronic pain and avoid dysfunction and disease. Yes. So he has over 23 years of education and clinical experience. He's worked with thousands of people to improve their spine energy longevity, eliminate dependence on medication, and make simple healthy pain-free living possible. Please help me welcome Dr. Ryan Wolfert to the

    Speaker 3 (03:21):

    show. Thanks for having me, doc. I appreciate you, you reaching out and us getting able to talk.

    Speaker 1 (03:27):

    Yeah, I think that this is such an important topic because it's very neglected, I'll say in the functional medicine space, even though we cover a lot of things, we don't cover the bioenergetics of the body, which I think is super important. And we really don't cover the structural aspects which are super important. And part of your metabolic homeostasis, right, from a, from your bones and your muscles, they're very highly metabolically active tissues. And this all ties into the bones and the musculoskeletal system into the spine, which is kind of ground zero, I'll call it, for your overall musculoskeletal balance. So I think it's super important, and that's why everybody listening needs to listen up and pay attention to this. Don't just say, oh, I don't have any spine problems, <laugh>. Right? And if you're saying that you might, you're likely to have a very high possibility of that in your life. And this contributes to your overall metabolic and hormonal health, believe it or not. And we're gonna get into that a little more. So welcome and I, I would say Dr. Ryan, you're a chiropractor by training, right? Correct. And so what makes you focus more on the spine than anything else? How did you come in your chiropractic career to believe that that's really the linchpin?

    Speaker 3 (04:56):

    I love that. And I love what you said right at the beginning too, how, you know, especially in functional medicine, the mechanical aspects of things and structural aspects do get pushed to the background because we're, nutrition is important obviously, but the mechanics of how your body uses that nutrition is also important. And with the spine, my whole journey with the spine started when I was a kid, when I was 13 years old and I had my first migraine headache, and I'm already jumping the gun there. But again, I had these episodes and I would have headaches and I would have colds, and I would have infections and I would've bronchitis and all these things, but I was still an active kid, you know, playing all these sports with my brothers in the backyard and, and eating homemade food that my mom would make.

    Speaker 3 (05:49):

    But one time, or I shouldn't say one time, the first time I remember was sitting in class and all of a sudden I couldn't see outta my right eye. The right side of my body went numb like this, I shouldn't say numb, but a tingly feeling in my hand and down my leg. And just seeing spots, you know how you look at the sun and you get that sun spot or a light? Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. But I couldn't see out of my eye. And then the craziest thing, and probably the scariest thing happened about 20 to 30 minutes after those symptoms started is I couldn't talk. Like I would just, I could have thoughts, but the words weren't coming out. And this was all, I was in class. I was, oh my gosh, asking questions and I didn't know what it was. But then after those symptoms, about a half hour, that's when I got my first migraine headache, like just this debilitating headache.

    Speaker 3 (06:43):

    I didn't, like I said, like I said, I thought it was just a headache, just a really bad one. So I went home, slept, and probably took some Tylenol and some ibuprofen that my mom gave me. I don't know, I can't remember. So it went away after a day or two, and then I was again sitting in class and it happened again the next week. So a week later it happened again. I knew what was gonna happen or after, like those first symptoms, the tingling, the sun, like the spots that I couldn't see went down to the school office and asked the secretary, I asked her, you know, I, I'm gonna have a bad headache. Do you have any Tylenol that I can take? And so what she said actually changed the course of my life. She said, I can't give you that, but what it sounds like, it sounds like you got a pinched nerve and you need to go see my chiropractor <laugh>.

    Speaker 3 (07:35):

    So again, I was 10 years old, in the eighth grade. I was like, whatever. It's not like I could take myself, but she called my mom to come pick me up. And she told my mom when she came to pick me up, the same thing she told me. So then we went to the chiropractic office of her chiropractor. He took x-rays, showed me my spine was crooked, which was, I still remember that, again, I'm just giving you a summary version of it. But it was all very thorough. And I remember us sitting in the room, he showed my mom and myself the x-rays and said, look right there, it's on crooked. So then I got my first adjustment, and it was like fireworks went up. It was just, wow. Just, he said, feel your face. And all the circulation I could feel, my face was like beet red and was warm because the circulation was coming back.

    Speaker 3 (08:23):

    And so that was my first experience and it, it, it wasn't right then that I said, oh man, I'm gonna be a chiropractor. But it gave me the taste of it. And ever since then I've been, I've been going, but along the way, it wasn't until probably my, my junior, up until my junior year of high school, I was gonna be an engineer, a mechanical engineer. That's what my focus was. But then going into my senior year, somebody told me about kinesiology. Like, whoa, that sound, what's that? The study of human movement, the study of movement, musculoskeletal system, how the body works with that. So I I went into that major and while I was there, that's kinda like a stepping stone to either pre-med, athletic training, physical therapy, occupational therapy. But while I was at University of Michigan my freshman year, I was like, you know what I, I know the power of chiropractic and how the spine works.

    Speaker 3 (09:16):

    So that's where my focus led and it's been great along the way. Obviously I've learned a lot. You probably know as well as anybody the, your education and ex it starts after you get outta school. That's basically because after the last, you know, I've been a chiropractor for over 23 years, and the last 15 of it has been in this corrective form, which we'll talk a lot about today and the research behind that and how this actual structure, 'cause you know, there's chiropractic that, again, the adjustments are great, but if you're trying to fix the structure and posture and the, the normal curves of the spine and the positioning of the spine because of how the ligaments and muscles and nerves all intertwine, the adjustment is great for a jumpstart. But if you want to correct the actual positioning and structure and alignment of it, then you have to create a sustained load onto it.

    Speaker 3 (10:13):

    Similar to how braces correct the structure of teeth. Just like we can't push on our teeth one time a week or one time even a day, and it will correct the structure of them. There needs to be a sustained load to do that. And that's again, what we focus on. And by correcting those curves and the structure and the normal positioning of the spine, that takes the stress off of the nerves, off of the musculoskeletal system. So like how you mentioned ground zero is the spine. I, you know, I like to say it's the foundation of our strength and our function, because if that's off, then it puts excess wear and tear on the rest of the system.

    Speaker 1 (10:54):

    Right. So you said so much in there that's so rich, thank you for that. Before we dive into ground zero, I, I just have to point out a few things that you mentioned. So you said you were gonna go into mechanical engineering, which is interesting because you kind of are a mechanical engineer just of humans, not machines. And it gets to something else that you mentioned. It's interesting how many of us, I want everyone listening to think back, how many times did you go to the school nurse in your educational career with an ache, a bump, a pain for us ladies, a lot of times it's menstrual problems. And did they just give you a Tylenol or a Motrin, right, for your cramps, for your headache? They just gave you the pill. But it's fascinating to me that you are now in the pro profession and path that you're on and that this woman said something completely different.

    Speaker 1 (11:49):

    And out of the blue from 99.9% of the school nurses globally, that actually planted seeds that impacted the course of your life. Or rather, maybe she was one of your guides along that path, kind of planted by the divine, the universe, whatever you like to call it, to guide you on your path. And, and why I think this is so important. So why I'm so passionate about what I do is yes, do I want people, women, particularly women over 40, but all women to be as healthy as possible, vital and alive and feel great in their bodies? Yes. But it's so that you can live your purpose, live your passion. And a lot of women, they're so stuck in their health problems that they've even stopped dreaming about that passion. They've stopped listening to that internal voice that's guiding them. They're like, I just, Karen, I get it, but I just wanna feel better.

    Speaker 1 (12:47):

    But what I find is when I work with you to get you feeling better, then you're like, okay, now I wanna get back on my path and my purpose, what I think Dr. Ryan shared there was so key because all along your life you've been getting these seeds planted, these walk in angels who say things to you that are so out of the blue, like instead of here's the Tylenol, you've got a pinched nerve and you need to go to the chiropractor. And a lot of times we discount those and we think, oh, this is happening to everyone. I know I've done that. Oh, this happens to everyone. But now looking back, you know, I was in the nurse's office with period problems <laugh> from the time I first got my period, right. Not realizing that that was guiding me on my path to women's health. So I just wanna highlight that. Thank you for sharing that very beautiful story because people listen, they're also looking to feel better, but they're also looking for their purpose once they feel better. So I think it's beautiful and, and anything you wanna add about that, please feel free to. But welcome to drive into Ground zero, whatever you feel called.

    Speaker 3 (13:55):

    I love that you brought that piece into it because I got the chills. You just say that, you know, the divine and God just leading me in that direction and you're not really, you don't know it, you know, until, until you know it, until again, I was going through my journey and you mentioned the mechanical engineering part of it. You're right, essentially that's what we're re-engineering, we're restructuring the body. It's interesting because this technique that we use, it's called CBP chiropractic biophysics, which you mentioned in the intro. It's it, the, the person who developed it, he you know, is a doctor of chiropractic, but he's also, he had a, a master's in engineering and a master's in in math. So he understood the relationship between that of the body and the mechanics and how that affects the overall health of the, because he has such a deep understanding of it.

    Speaker 1 (14:53):

    I have not heard of the term chiropractic biophysics. I'm gonna have to look it up. But is this related to, so I went to a chiropractor several years ago who was unlike any chiropractor I had been to before, and I've been to many of them. And he was the one who really introduced me to this whole concept that if there's a torque in your structural mechanics, meaning your spine, and it's kind of twisted and off kilter and things aren't aligned properly, that it alters the way blood flows through all of your blood vessels. It alters the ability of cells to take up nutrients and distribute nutrients that everything is affected. And he's like, think of, if you kind of take a city and you twist it a little, like take Manhattan, which kind of looks like a person and you twist it a little, well then Broadway isn't gonna, the traffic's not gonna flow smoothly along Broadway like it's supposed to. And then, you know, the UPS guy isn't gonna be able to deliver the packages properly 'cause there's gonna be traffic jams at certain places. So think of your blood vessels getting torqued and then calcium can't be delivered and then potassium and blood glucose can't be distributed properly. Is that what you're talking about? Or is it, am I totally off base?

    Speaker 3 (16:12):

    No, that's a great analogy. The flow of information, the flow of communication gets interrupted because, and that's a big reason why the spine is ground zero, why it's the foundation. And I think it's one of, I think it's the main reason why it's so important is because it houses the nervous system, the spinal cord and the nerve roots. So if you torque that as well as, again, it, it will alter the circulation like you had mentioned. And that's actually been shown through at least one study in, called in brain circulation journal, showing how the curve of the neck, which we haven't even gotten in the structure yet and what the normal structure is. But you should have this normal side curve of the neck and when you lose that, it alters the vertebral artery chemodynamics of that. So it's not delivering the oxygen, not delivering the blood to the brain, and then you can't get rid of the waste either.

    Speaker 3 (17:04):

    But no, that's very similar and like that torque that you mentioned, if there's some sort of mm-hmm, <affirmative> interference like that, and it's not allowing the communication just downriver down the highway. Like I love that analogy. Now the UPS driver can, you know, deliver the package. That's how our organs and organ systems can be affected by the spine not being in the correct alignment because it, you know, at the end of that highway route of that UPS driver is somebody's house. Well, at the end of these nerve roots and or the spinal cord, nerve roots to nerves at the end of those are your organs as well as your muscles and cells and all these tissues that they have to have this communication back and forth. Where if they don't, now the body, the brain's gonna try to figure things out on its own.

    Speaker 3 (17:55):

    And here is, I call it a perfect design, but somebody might call it a cruel joke. <Laugh>, your body, your body can handle a certain amount of dysfunction before it gives you symptoms, right? Right. If you felt a symptom every time you did something stressful to the body and that symptom didn't go away, you, your body, you wouldn't be able to function. So we need that nice communication in order for the brain to make decisions on what the body and the organs and the cells and tissue should be doing, including absorbing nutrients, including having your body heal and, and making the correct amount of hormones for, for, for, for your body.

    Speaker 1 (18:32):

    Right? And yes, so hopefully everybody listening, you're getting the picture right? And so this chiropractor was explaining to me like you're explaining like if you can do all the functional type of treatments you want, take all the supplements, change your diet, but if your skeletal system is wonky, which you proceeded to show me how mine looked wonky, you're not getting the proper delivery of nutrients, balance of hormones, excretion of waste. And isn't this happening to all of us just from gravity and living? We're all losing our C curve with us sitting and crouching over computers all day long. And kinda what are the situations that we're dealing with in everyday life that are causing us to have difficulties, whether we know it or not. Like you said, we might not have symptoms and we might think we're fine <laugh>, so please enlighten

    Speaker 3 (19:27):

    Us. I got you led right into it. Beautiful. Because yeah, with the world that we're living in today, just going at a global level, you know, six in 10 US adults have at least one chronic condition. What does it have to do with the spine? Well, if you look at our world, almost 70% of us are in the distorted spinal posture that go forward hunched over prolonged flexed posture that leads to chronic issues and including chronic pain and disability fatigue, accelerated aging and arthritis, anxiety and mood problems, and increased medication use, which is a big you know, that's one of the things that I never wanna be on any medications, and this is, and I never will because I already put that in my mindset. And yes, it even impacts our hormones and our metabolic system. So what's even more, which I think is the most interesting part of what people don't know about the spine, is that multiple studies show that this spinal posture, you know, losing the C curve, as you mentioned, that hyper kyphosis of the mid back, that slump hunchback posture Mm-hmm <affirmative> that significantly increases the risk of death from heart disease, pulmonary issues, and all causes, which is surprising to a lot of people until we explain it, is think about it, if we're in that hunchback posture where our, the stress is on the nerves going to the heart, going to the lungs, going to the, the gut.

    Speaker 3 (20:56):

    Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> not only nerve stress, but just mechanically, if we're in that hunch position, well now again, we're putting increased mechanical stress on the heart to work the lungs. We can't, you know, get, you know, air into our lungs because there's not even enough space for that. So these, you already mentioned a few, you know, our phones, you know, sitting at a computer on the couch looking down, you know, propped up in our lazboy, driving, you know, even lying down, sleeping either on the couch or in bed or propping up ourselves up on pillows. But yeah, the major one is the phones being on our, our technology, which it's nice and I know that's not going away. So we better know how to counteract that stress with exercises, with adjusting our lifestyle with specific forms of, of traction we call it. Especially if you are already caught in that position where you have arthritis, where you have chronic back pain, where you have, you know, low energy, that's a big one because your body is fighting day after day just against gravity to stand up.

    Speaker 3 (22:03):

    And I'm saying a lot here, but I like to put images in, in people's heads and give analogies. If, if you are a, a, a parent or a grandparent and you, there's a, you know, when you had your babies and they were 10 pounds, 15 pounds as there were, you know, hopefully not 15 pounds when they were born, that'd be a, a pretty big baby. But if you took that 15 pound weight or 20 pound person, or even if you don't have a baby around or can't think back to that, just get a dumbbell or aa weight plate or something, 15 pounds and hold it at arms length away from your body. So that's like having this hunched posture where your head's forward and collapsing down is if you have a weight that's 15 to 20 pounds out away from you, do you see how your muscles, your spine, your joints are gonna be on overload, trying just to hold you up against gravity. And now we add things onto it to make it even tougher. So if we retrain our posture and spine using specific techniques to take that stress off of it, bring that weight closer to the body, now we're decreasing the stress, yes, on the spine, but also the spinal cord we're decreasing. And by that we're also decreasing stress on your organs, on your metabolism, on your entire cell tissue system, anywhere that these nerves go. Right? So that's how that works.

    Speaker 1 (23:28):

    Yeah, I love how you detailed that. It's, it's funny, I became a nomad about a year and a half ago. I've traveled all over the world and I don't know, somehow I thought in America, maybe we were in a bubble that we're all on our phones all day long. Everywhere. But no, everywhere I go, <laugh>, <laugh>, all, all over Africa, the Middle East, and now I'm in London, everybody's on their phone all the time in that hunched over position. And you listen, you know, you do it too. So I love this quote you shared with me before we started. You don't have to do anything except deal with the consequences of your choices. Your choices. So why I love that so much is that a lot of times we're not aware of the consequences of our choices. What are the consequences of being hunched over on our phone all day or our computer every day?

    Speaker 1 (24:19):

    And you're really highlighting that for us. You're waking us up to, oh, this is something I need to pay attention to. Whether or not I'm having a spine problem or a pain problem. It's something I need to pay attention to. And I know you've got solutions, <laugh>. So we're gonna dive into that. But before we do that, how would somebody know if this is like, you need to drop everything and take care of this now position, or this applies to everyone, including me, and I need to start integrating some things into my daily life. What are some symptoms people might have to know where they fall on this continuum of needing acute attention or care versus, oh, this is a chronic problem and I do need to pay attention to it. Like fixing your diet. How do they know?

    Speaker 3 (25:07):

    An acute problem would be like any types of acute injuries, especially if you had like sciatica, shooting pain, debilitating pain, like with me when I was, when I had my migraines, that was a sign to me and that was well sign to our school secretary to tell us that, to, to tell me that any type of intense pain would be a, alright, you need to get this checked out. Which again, pain is a great motivator. So that's kind of a simple way to know if you have more on that lower spectrum, but still low energy and fatigue is another big one because your body's wasting so many resources. If your body is in this, your spine is in this distorted, abnormal, weakened position. So those are the two big main ones. Chronic pain in different areas of your body, especially spine and the nerves, disc problems arm, if we're talking may with a neck stiffness, achiness, where again you see a progression of not able to turn your head side to side, tilt it pain, shooting down the arm, numbness, tingling in your hands.

    Speaker 3 (26:17):

    Those are all signs of, okay, acute, get these checked out. Now if and hopefully that answered the question with that. If you are, and I'm glad you asked this, because if you don't have these acute symptoms, how can you test yourself to see what your spinal posture is like? And I love that. 'cause That's the, basically that's the first step is how do you assess to make sure that my ears over my shoulders, over my hip is over my ankle? 'cause That's the normal posture. We're looking at you straight ahead. We wanna make sure that if we have a, a straight line or a plumb line dropped down from the ceiling, we want your pelvis under the middle of your chest, under your, you know, middle of your head, like right between your, your eyes. Any deviation from those, again, you can, we call it, you do a selfie test where you take a, you got your phone, right?

    Speaker 3 (27:08):

    And you can try to take a selfie, you set it up somewhere and take a picture of yourself. Just get in a comfortable standing position looking straight at it, take a picture. And then also you could from the side especially, and you wanna make sure that you're going from the ground up, that your ankle is right on top of your, the outside of your hip, and then your shoulder and ear are all lined up. So that's one easy way. You can also look in the mirror for the front one. It's a little bit harder to do with the, the side, you know, a side picture of your body. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. Now another good one is the wall test because the most common postural distortion is that, you know, the hunchback, right? So you can stand up against a wall, your back is against a wall.

    Speaker 3 (27:51):

    Your feet are about two to four inches away from the wall. The back of your, your heels, your hips, your mid back. Your head should touch the wall. If you can't get your head to touch the wall comfortably, again, more than likely you're, there's arthritis. That's the hunchback, it's the degeneration of the disc. It's the common problem with osteoporosis because if they get weak spinal bones and fracture, not, they don't even need acute fractures, but these chronic fractures on the front, it, makes it hard for you to get in that aligned position. So that's another wall test. You can also do it lying down. Now if you, if you're lying down on your back and your head, it's uncomfortable to have your head on the floor or it can't even get in that position. I would call that more of an acute case where you need to get that checked out because you're stuck there. The restrictions that ligaments have gotten so fibrotic and so worn out and they're tight, that it can't do it. Like the muscles by themselves are not gonna allow you to do that. So just postural exercises and exercise by itself won't allow you to get back in the healthy position. Mm-Hmm,

    Speaker 1 (29:11):

    <Affirmative>. Okay. Does that make sense, yeah. Yeah. Those are some great tips on things to do the wall test or lay on the floor doing the selfie. Or even if you could get someone to take a photo of you from the side or the front and kind of look at this alignment. You know, I have found that some of these skews in your posture are so subtle that I can't necessarily tell them. But then I go to the chiropractor and they're like, duh, <laugh>, don't you see this? You know how your left hip is slightly higher than your Right, right? And, you know, they look at leg length and they're like, oh, this foot is a centimeter longer than the other leg. And they can really see it. Like, you guys have this very acute vision. And so I like that you're really,

    Speaker 3 (29:56):

    It's just like, you're just like, you're trained in what you do that I wouldn't be able to see, just like the, the listener, they're, they're trained in what they do. Like that whole purpose thing that you mentioned at the beginning, that purpose is what your skill is in, in developing that skill. Because I know I'll be adjusting to somebody in my brick and mortar clinic and I will like to start working on them. And they're like, I, how did you know that was there? It's just, you know, after 20 some years of doing it, you get a feel for it based on the symptoms they're telling me or their posture or what it is. Same thing again, in your profession. Yeah,

    Speaker 1 (30:34):

    Yeah. You just know. And everybody listening, I love this other quote you shared Dr. Ryan, don't complain about the results you didn't get from the work. You didn't do <laugh>. So if you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you Dr. Kyrin and Dr. Ryan, I know I should be tense paying attention to my spine, but I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna lie on the floor. I'm not gonna go against, well I'm not gonna do this selfie. Well then don't complain. 5, 10, 20 years down the line, <laugh>, when you didn't do the work. Like, these are simple things y'all you can do tonight when you're at home or you know, wherever you are. Just stop, drop and do it really quickly to see if, if it applies to you, what are some things that we need to be doing. You know, I think a lot of us got the memo on aerobic exercise. Hopefully more women, if you're listening, have got the memo about the weight bearing exercise resistance training, essential for us women, almost more important than the aerobic exercise. But so many women don't do it. Shy away from it. It's super important. But what things do we need to be doing for exercise for our spine to preserve it, to reverse or counteract some of these kyphotic positions we're in all day long? Well, what do we need to be doing?

    Speaker 3 (31:49):

    Beautiful. I love that because that exercise is part of it. I've said the words a little bit at the be, you know, as we've gone through this, but as a simple little acronym, think of eat EAT, that is the protocol of chiropractic biophysics. So EAT stands for exercise adjustment and traction. And I'll go quickly through each of those because when you hear, like, I'll just touch on for a second, adjust you think, okay. Adjustment of the spine. But I'll, I'll show you how adjusting your lifestyle also is under that adjusted part of it. But let's start with exercise. You mentioned great ones, general exercise that you just mentioned. Beautiful. Not even gonna talk about that. But now there's general spinal exercises that you can do. And I know they'll have access to the spinal hygiene mini class. And this is part of that, but I'll go over it here. It's just like we take care of our teeth and brush our teeth every day, or at least what we're supposed to.

    Speaker 3 (32:48):

    We wanna take care of our spine every day. And it doesn't have to take long. Very simply taking your spine through all of its ranges of motion at least once a day, maybe even twice a day. So what are the ranges of motion? So side to side, bending side to side. I know people can't see me, but as I'm doing it, <laugh> I have to do the actions as I do it. So your trunk and then also your head and neck, the rotation, just taking it, rotating it side to side. And you can either hold at the pain-free end range of motion for 10 seconds, or you can do five to 10 reps in each direction with these. If you have, I'll put the caveat right now, or the disclaimer, if you have osteoporosis or fractures, you want to be careful with the twisting and with these exercises, that's why it's always gentle, it's always controlled.

    Speaker 3 (33:38):

    So we have the side to side, we have the rotation. Now we want to flex. Although we are in this prolonged flexed posture for a lot of, you know, most of our day, we still wanna be able to do that motion. We just don't wanna be in that chronically flexed position. So flexing down, like either doing like a, and then also extending back. So the cat cow, a lot of people are familiar with that exercise or on your hands and knees where you're rounding your back, taking your chin towards your chest and then arching it up, squeezing the shoulder blades, dropping the pelvis down, but you're flexing the spine and extending rounding and then flattening going towards their, I don't like to say extreme, but their, their final range of motion under control gently and pain free. So that's called spinal hygiene. And just like I said, taking two minutes outta your day to do that. Yeah,

    Speaker 1 (34:32):

    I love that. And you could even do it while you're brushing your teeth. You know that great book Tiny Habits where one of his main tips was to link a new habit to something else that you already do. So if you're already religious about your teeth, brushing, flossing, all the things and the evening, then you could just tack on spinal hygiene to your dental hygiene right after. So it makes it super easy. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

    Speaker 3 (34:57):

    That's okay. And there are more sp if, if you find during the assessment or if you ever get your spine checked from a doctor that specializes in, especially this corrective technique and like you said, Dr. Karen, we're good at seeing things that other people can't either through x-rays or through this postural analysis. But if you find during your assessment, your self-assessment, that your posture stinks, for lack of a better word, that it's, it's not aligned, your head's in front of your shoulders, your kyphotic or your, you know, your body side to side, one shoulder lower than the other, your head's tipped. There are specific postural exercises, spinal exercises that we would recommend based on your specific needs in the opposite direction to counteract that postural distortion. So unlike exercise, generally, you know, general exercise, we wanna do it bilaterally or if we go in one direction, we wanna do it on the other side of the body.

    Speaker 3 (35:55):

    Specific. Postural and spinal exercises are different because you have to counteract the position it's already in. So if I'm hunched over, heads forward, we don't wanna do a prolonged exercise where we're doing that, but we're doing an exercise where we're bringing the shoulder blades back, taking the head back, called the full spine exercise breathing. And it's not just a stretch, but it's retraining. Holding that position for five to 10 seconds, starting off at three sets of 10 reps and working your way up to even like 5, 6, 7 sets of 10 reps every day because we have to retrain it. Now you could do that type of exercise if you are at a computer, if you're hunched over, if you're on the couch for 20 to 30 minutes. And it's always good to have a timer on. So, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, another little tip, a timer on at 20 or 30 minutes. So you get up and just do this exercise for like 30 seconds where you're shoulders squeezing your shoulder blades back, taking your head back. That actually helps to increase circulation. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, which you'll feel. So that's the exercise part of it now.

    Speaker 1 (37:00):

    Yeah. Well I wanna add in there. Yeah, I just wanna put a plug for yoga. 'cause I always say that the triad is aerobic weight bearing and stretching because the constriction of your joints where the connective tissue starts hardening and getting tighter happens very gradually that you don't even notice it. And then before long, you know, you're having trouble reaching over your head or you can't touch your toes or whatever. And so yoga takes you generally through a lot of these stretches. So I wanna put a plugin for that, but please proceed.

    Speaker 3 (37:32):

    No, those are exactly the three cardio weight bearing resistance type training and flexibility ability. Absolutely. And it's funny because we'll get into the, with the traction part, eat, we'll talk about that. You said it perfectly. The connective tissues get tense, they get tight and you don't even know what's happening. And, and how do you correct that? So it is an adjustment. So adjusting the spine, which chiropractors are known for, but like I said in the beginning, it's not gonna correct the structure long term. It's gonna give you a jumpstart to a dead battery like I did with my daughter's car this morning. It's going to again give you, get the nerves working again and functioning, but also adjust talks about lifestyle, how you sit, how you stand, how you bend, lift, sleep, how you carry things. Think about your day and the postures that you're in and how you can improve on the postures that you're using.

    Speaker 3 (38:27):

    The biggest one, which we've mentioned multiple times, is on your phone, on your smartphone. I'm not sure how your phone being down in your lap or your tablet or your, well it's called a laptop. So I guess that's why, how that became the normal positioning to look at your phone. But it's very simple how to correct that, how to adjust the positioning of that. If you're sitting down, make sure your butt is up against the back of the chair of the couch, whatever it is, prop pillows behind you to keep you more upright. And then you can also put pillows or blankets or something on your lap. Rest your elbows on those blankets or pillows on your lap. Bend your elbows in arms to about 90 degrees or more and bring your phone towards, you know, more in front of your face. Definitely in front of, more like the chest area.

    Speaker 3 (39:20):

    Chest level, not down in your lap. And, have that be the normal position. Have, you know, let's make it so when we see somebody in the flex position looking down at their phone, you know, walking around or standing there waiting for something or at the airport waiting, that, that becomes like the abnormal where it's like, man, that doesn't look very good. Let's, let's lift it up so you can do this. Not just when you're sitting, but when you're standing too. Check your posture with that. So that's the, I will say another lifestyle adjustment. How you bend. It's not all about squatting, but it's more of a, in weightlifting terms, like a deadlift or a hip hint, you want to hinge at the hips when you're, you're bending because we're not always gonna be in a, I wanna say position to squat, but we're not always gonna be squatting. So we need to learn how to use our hips to bend. And I'll give a plug to a great technique called foundation training. It teaches you how to use your hips using this hip pinch. And I explained it in one of my, one of my handouts. But yes, how you hold your phone and how you bend are two huge things that you can adjust in your lifestyle.

    Speaker 1 (40:31):

    Awesome. Those are super important. We are running out of time, but before we wrap up, and I know you've got some great resources for everyone we wanna share, you mentioned osteoporosis or osteo products, spinal fractures, which are horrific. We don't want anyone here to have those. They're very silent, but they're also very painful and they're devastating because they do decrease your lung capacity. So your ability to breathe and, and oxygenate your tissues and have so many consequences. Can you just talk a little bit about osteoporosis? I can't tell you how many women I come across who have not had osteoporosis screening and they are well beyond the age at which they qualify for that or the medical risk factors that should qualify them and their doctors aren't talking to them about it. So I'm wondering if you could just put a plug in for women to get osteoporosis screening, what that should consist of, who should be getting it and how important it's, well,

    Speaker 3 (41:30):

    I don't know, like, you know, that's not in my area. I just see a lot of it because of the spine that I, you know, the, the 'cause I've been on the spinal health and because we have to make sure with that, I mean obviously Kevin Ellis is really good at explaining that Margie Bissinger because they deal more with osteoporosis. So look them up obviously. And you are even very well versed in what, when people should be getting checked because as they go through life changes and hormonal changes that affects the bones, that affects the, the, the strength and the density and the mineralization of the bones. But also what I, I like to point out too is I'm gonna take it back to the spine. Osteoporosis will affect the spine, it will affect your posture and that hyper kyphosis, especially if it's weak. So if we're weakening the bones, if we're weakening the bones of the spine, it's gonna cause these micro fractures, it's gonna cause degenerated disc because now there's increased stress on that, it's gonna cause that hunchback.

    Speaker 3 (42:30):

    So if you're, you know, per menopausal postmenopausal, they need to get that checked. But even more I think it is important to learn these things that you're teaching through nutrition, through detox, through posture, through sleep, all these healthy living practices to help prevent it. Yes, I know it's, it's a big, big story right now. And I think another big reason why osteoporosis is so profound and rampant now is the medications that people are taking. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> the side effects of these. And there's patients who I've talked to that have been on, they were on 20 years of, of prednisone and it's a steroid which weakens the bones 20 years. And those are obviously acute, special, hopefully they're special cases and not the norm because that is just gonna make your bones trash if you have been on medications, that's a, a good benchmark there is, if you've been on medications for a long period of time, it doesn't have to be steroids, it doesn't have to be prednisone.

    Speaker 3 (43:31):

    Make sure you get your bones checked because of the side effects caused not just the bones but your gut health, which affects how your body can absorb these nutrients. That's for osteoporosis. And I just wanna plug one time here, not a, not a plug, but because the most unique part of this whole eat protocol is the T part is the traction. We have to make sure we are addressing that and possibly using some form of traction similar to how braces are put on teeth to correct the structure. We have to put the spine in a position for a certain period of time, hold it there so the ligaments can reform. Alright? And we can use different towels, different techniques of the guy explain it in the spinal hygiene mini class that they'll have access to. Yes,

    Speaker 1 (44:16):

    There's so much to talk about it. I know we can't get it all in one show, but we will give them a link which will be in the show notes to share with everyone. And, and I do wanna reiterate, yes, Margie is great about osteoporosis. She's been on the show. So if you miss that episode, go back and listen. If you are a woman over 50, you absolutely should have a dual femur, dual hip DEXA scan to check for osteoporosis. And if you're at increased risk, 'cause you've been on medications like chronic prednisone, there's a whole list of medications that will increase your risk, family history, et cetera, then you wanna get a bone density. So thank you Dr. Ryan for joining us for this essential information to highlight things that we need to be aware of so that we can have great vitality and have an increase in our vitality span, not just our longevity, but how vital and alive we are in those extra years that we're gonna live. Because we do all the things and tell everyone about the spinal hygiene mini class that you have for them. We'll have the link in the show notes and where they can connect with you online.

    Speaker 3 (45:20):

    Yeah, I mean the spinal hygiene mini class, it's a simple one pager that shows you like what are the like four simple steps you can do to hydrate your body and spine to exercise at which we, we went over here how to, I went into more like how to adjust your lifestyle and went into examples of how to do that and then also the traction part of it, how to use towels, how to use household house, things they have around the house to use your advantage to help correct and support your spine. And then you can always go to dr wolfer.com, D-R-W-O-H-L-F as in Frank, ER t.com and that's where you can find me.

    Speaker 1 (46:05):

    Awesome. Well, I hope everyone will check Dr. Ryan in those places. Download the guide, add spinal hygiene to some other habit that you're already doing. It just takes a few minutes and enjoys the benefits of improved spinal function, which means improved hormonal balance, improved overall health. Thank you so much for joining me today, Dr. Ryan.

    Speaker 3 (46:28):

    Thank you.

    Speaker 1 (46:29):

    And thank you for joining us for another episode of the Hormone Prescription. This really is essential information that I don't know, honestly. Is your doctor telling you to take care of your spinal hygiene? I don't think so. So <laugh>, you need to know about this, so I'm glad you're here. One last quote that Dr. Ryan shared with me before we started recording. I'll leave you with for when the one great scorer comes to Mark against your name. He writes, not that you won or lost, but how you played the game. That's from Grant Lynn Rice. So how will you play the game with the information that you get? What do you do with it? Do you want to know and keep it moving? Or do you go, nice to know. I'm gonna see how I can implement this in my life. I look forward to hearing what you do with this information on social media. So reach out to me on Instagram or Facebook at Kyrin Dunston md. Hope you have a great week. I'll see you again next week. Until then, peace, love, and hormones y'all. Thank you so much for

    Speaker 2 (47:28):

    Listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

    ► Get Dr. Ryan Wohlfert's 1-Page Spinal Hygiene MiniClass: Learn Simple Solutions to Hydrate, Move & Support Your Spine, Maintain Healthy Postures, and Live a Pain-Free, Active Life:

    CLICK HERE https://drwohlfert.com/spinalhygiene/

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  • In this enlightening episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, Dr. Kyrin Dunston opens a heartfelt discussion about understanding and embodying self-love in the year 2024.

    If you're a midlife woman navigating the often tumultuous waves of hormonal change, sit back and tune in to a conversation that dives into the essence of caring deeply for oneself. It's more than skin-deep - it's a five-sensory journey towards being symptom free and realizing your full potential.

    Main Topics Discussed:

    Vision of Being Symptom Free: Dr. Kyrin encourages us to craft a vivid, multi-sensory vision of wellness. Imagine a life where every day sings with vitality.Finding Your 'Why': It isn't just about wanting to improve certain aspects of our health; it's about digging deep and finding the real reasons driving our pursuit of well-being.Navigating Relationships: Learn how intimate connections factor into self-love, and why nourishing these relationships - especially with ourselves - is crucial.Harnessing Universal Forces: This episode reveals how to tap into the universal force for miraculous results, guiding listeners from hormonal poverty to prosperity.Decision as the First Step: Drawing inspiration from JP Morgan's wise words, Dr. Kyrin explores the power of decision-making in initiating transformation.

    In an extraordinary moment, a listener shares her personal story in a mini coaching session with Dr. Kyrin - a testament to the power of vulnerability and clarity in the journey towards true self-love and hormonal balance.

    Remember, the choice to improve your life is in your hands, and as JP Morgan stated, "The first step to getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are." Make that bold decision today!

    🎧 Listen to the full episode for a deeper dive into self-love and what it truly means to live a fulfilled life in the heart of midlife. Discover how to chart your course out of midlife metabolic mayhem and step into a world where hormone prosperity is your new normal.

    "Don't linger in the shadows of hormonal confusion. Let's illuminate the path to a vibrant, symptom-free life together. Your journey to hormone bliss awaits!"

    Speaker 1 (00:00):

    There's a force in the universe, which if we permit it will flow through us and produce miraculous results. Mahatma Gandhi, find out how to produce miraculous results with your hormones and your health in your life. Now stay tuned.

    Speaker 2 (00:16):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Speaker 1 (01:10):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we talk about how to produce miraculous results in your life with your hormones and your health so that you can get on with the business of living and live joyfully and produce miraculous results in your life. In the last episode, I started with the teaser with a quote from JP Morgan about the first step to getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are. And then I totally forgot that that's what I started with and never came back to that we started about talking about shrinking the size of your butt if you wanna reach your goals. So I'm gonna revisit this quote from JP Morgan because if you take no action and you don't change anything, guess what? Nothing changes. And in this solo series I've been talking about how do you change and go from hormonal poverty and the symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem to hormonal prosperity, getting into your genes off the couch and back into life?

    Speaker 1 (02:14):

    Because if you're, listen, listening to my show on a regular basis, I'm guessing that you're struggling with some aspect of your health and that you think or know it's related to your hormones, your midlife metabolism, and that you're tired of being sick and tired of that. You want something different and better for your life. I don't know, just, just an inkling that that's why you're here and you're hoping you're gonna learn something that you can use. Maybe you're searching Dr. Google, you're listening to my pod podcast, lots of other podcasts, reading blogs, and you're trying to find answers. You know, I was talking with the women in my Hormone bliss challenge last night during our live class on Zoom about where did we women get this idea that we have to fix our health problems ourself, because it's kind of insane. I mean, I know we're in this age of information, right?

    Speaker 1 (03:06):

    That's the age we're in. We can have a million Google hits on our question. Like when I got back from my 18 months of travel, I went to pick my car up from storage and it was filled with water. And what was the first thing I did was I googled my make and model. Why is my car filled with water <laugh>? Because I'm like, I have to figure this out myself. So I think because we're in the age of information and you can figure so many things out for yourself, that we've really now been trained that we go to Google first before or whatever your browser tool is to search for the answer. And there are lots of things we can solve for ourselves. Like I Googled this morning, why is my Gmail running slow <laugh>, right? So I get answers and then I can fix it.

    Speaker 1 (03:58):

    And then I immediately found it on YouTube telling me why my make and model of car might have water in it. And I also immediately knew I cannot do this myself. I need an expert. And so I found an expert local mechanic and took it to him and he looked at it and fixed it and addressed it. But why, when it comes to our our health, do we women have this idea that we need to fix it ourselves? And so the women in the challenge, what started me on this, on their homework, I was reviewing and they were detailing all the hours, time, money, energy, the, and attention they had spent on trying to fix their health problems themselves. And so we had got into this really rich discussion about why do we think that? And it was really around because there's so much information out there because a lot of health coaches put them cells out as hormone experts.

    Speaker 1 (04:49):

    So the, the number, sheer number of experts sharing information on the quote unquote experts sharing information on the internet is huge. And there's so much information and a lot of people make it sound like, oh yeah, you can do this yourself and or I can help you. And you don't need someone with those credentials that might be more expensive, more time consuming, more costly. And the consequence is that these women, after years and years of trying feel frustrated, disillusioned, hopeless, maybe you can identify because they haven't gotten the results 'cause they've been trying to fix it themselves or with the help of people who really weren't qualified. So yes, this quote, the first step of get to getting somewhere is to decide you're not gonna stay where you are. I decided I wasn't gonna stay with a car filled with water. I knew I wasn't the one to fix it.

    Speaker 1 (05:38):

    So I took it to a mechanic and they fixed it. You've got to decide you were sick and tired of being sick and tired of being sick and tired of being sick and tired. And that you're going to take the steps. And if you want the results that you are seeking, you need to find a qualified expert who can help you, who has a proven track record of being able to fix the problem that you have and not discount yourself and your value and your worth, and go to people who really can't help you. And then you get to this quote that I shared with you at the beginning of this episode. There is a force in the universe which if we permit it will flow through us and produce miraculous results. That is from the Hot Ma Gandhi. And there really is. So in in the hormonal challenge that we're going through now with some beautiful women experiencing some beautiful results and insights, I talk about the fact that everything is created twice.

    Speaker 1 (06:32):

    And maybe you've never thought about that. Have you ever thought about the fact that everything is created twice? When I say that to people initially, they usually say, what do you mean? So let's see, my cell phone is sitting in front of me, I'm picking it up on the counter. Somebody had to come up with a concept of a cell phone right Back when we only had rotary phones. You remember those rotary phones? Remember <laugh>? And then we got the push button phones. So we had the rotary phones in our house. The only place you could talk on the phone was in your house. And if you're lucky, maybe you had two phones, right? So in my house, we had one in the kitchen, and then later on my mother got one in her room. So two phones, I couldn't walk in the park and talk on the phone.

    Speaker 1 (07:14):

    I certainly couldn't answer my email. There was no email at that time from the park, right? Somebody had to come up with this concept and believe that it was possible to make it and then design it and get all the people in line to create it. And now look, our whole world is transformed because we basically have a personal computer in our pocket that has the processing capacity. I remember when I was in high school, I went to a specialized science high school. I was selected to do a computer programming course at NYU. And so I actually got to take a computer, computer programming course when I was in high school, the computers that we worked with were as big as an entire room, probably 40 by 60 feet, y'all. It was huge. And we had to to program on these punch cards that we would punch these little divots and cards kind of like some voter cards are.

    Speaker 1 (08:08):

    And then we would have to stack them all up and put them in a processor in the computer that would select these cards sequentially and integrate them into the system. I mean, it was insane what we had to go through. And now the phone that I carry around in my pocket has processing capacity that far exceeds that. That huge ginormous computer. Somebody had to come up with this. And think of it, everything is created twice your health. Likewise, everything in nature is created twice. So first, all the plants and animals that you see were created in the mind of whatever your belief system is, God, nature, the universe, some power greater than me is all I know thought this up and created it. Your health is created the same way. So you have to have a vision for what your health is going to look like.

    Speaker 1 (08:58):

    And that's something I have everyone do in all my programs. A vision of being symptom free. What does it look like? What do you experience every day? What do you hear people saying to you about you? What do you smell? What do you hear? What do you see? What do you feel? So it has to be five sensory, and that's what informs that force in the universe that if we permit it will flow through us to produce miraculous results. But more than anything, we've gotta have a why. And so that's another thing I was really going into detail about yesterday. It's not necessarily knowing what you want for your health, because if you stop any woman in the street and you ask her, what do you want to change for your health? She can tell you, I wanna lose 30 pounds. I'd like my vision to be better so I don't have to use reading glasses.

    Speaker 1 (09:47):

    I'd like a better sex drive because I'd like to be more intimate and connected to my partner. I'd like my hair to start growing thicker because I'm losing hair and it's thinning. She can run that down. Is she gonna accomplish that goal? No. Why? Because what really matters is why she wants the things she wants. That's what determines what we will succeed with in our lives of any goals that we have. Because you asked that woman that she just told you and she walks, continues walking down the street going about her day. Is she gonna accomplish those goals? No, because they have no meaning. And we haven't gotten to the why she wants it. Now, if you tell her why, which is what I find with a lot of women, if you ask them, why do you want that? And they just tell you, oh, 'cause I'd like to fit in my jeans.

    Speaker 1 (10:35):

    Oh, because I just, you know, felt better when I had better sex and energy. That's not really getting to the why. So that's what we were talking about last night. And one woman volunteered to kind of do a little mini coaching on the spot with me. She was agreed to be very vulnerable, which I appreciate. And we really dug deep into why is it important for her to have a better sex drive? And when she knew she got to the why is when we got to the tiers, that's when you know you've gotten to your why, because she and her partner are kind of living as roommates, disconnected, not being seen, not being heard, not being connected, not having that connection, that healthy sexual intimacy affords you in a relationship that they used to have. And she got into an intimate relationship because she wanted that high level of being seen, being truly seen, being truly known, being truly connected and witnessed in this lifetime.

    Speaker 1 (11:33):

    And she said, he'll never leave me. I know that, but I don't wanna live an unfulfilled relationship in my life and not experience what's truly possible for me. And I know that healthy sexual intimacy is part of that. And she started crying because she got in touch with the fact that if she doesn't do something, she might never experience what's possible for her and her relationship that's getting to your why. So in order to harness the force in the universe that will flow through you and produce miraculous results, get you from hormonal poverty and out of midlife metabolic mayhem into hormonal prosperity, you've gotta get really honest with yourself. Not only about the what you want, but why you want it without it. Like I shared with you that Dr. Carrie Jones said, if you wanna reach your goals, you must shrink the size of your butt.

    Speaker 1 (12:23):

    Your butt will be so big and you'll have so many reasons why you can't. I don't know the time, I don't know the money, I don't know the bandwidth, it doesn't matter. I'll deal with it later. My partner really doesn't care 'cause they're not talking about it. All the things. And I'm talking about all the symptoms of midlife, metabolic mayhem, 60 plus symptoms. You know what I'm talking about? Overweight, tired, hair loss, digestive issues, mood problems, memory problems, skin problems, headaches, migraines. You know the list. You're not going to get out of it. Don't be like the doctor friend of mine who was a general surgeon at the hospital when I practiced regular OB, GYN, who I used to see all the time. And then when I stopped going to the hospital, 'cause I started really helping women get healthy and stay away from the hospital.

    Speaker 1 (13:12):

    I didn't see her for years. And then the health food store would I regularly frequented to get supplements and healthy food and interact with people. I one day saw her in there after years and I said, what are you doing here? I've never seen you in here. She said, oh, I was diagnosed with colon cancer and I had a colectomy and I'm undergoing, I can't remember if it was chemo, radiation or both. And now I'm here looking for supplements that can help me. Don't be like her. I thought it was so sad. I, I of course you know, said, I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with that and I'm glad that you're here. But my thought after leaving and seeing her was, what if she had been in this health food store 20 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago, looking for things about how she could balance her hormones and lead to optimal health and wellbeing and hormone balance and hormone prosperity so that she could prevent things like cancers that one and two of us will get in our lifetime.

    Speaker 1 (14:06):

    But the data's clear that we have a reduced risk risk if we're in hormonal prosperity of getting cancer. What if she had taken the time, money, energy to take care of this and been proactive earlier because I know she was having symptoms 'cause she used to share with me that she was tired and not feeling like herself and I could see that she was overweight. What if she had taken care of it? Then maybe she wouldn't have had to have colon cancer. I don't know. I don't want that to be you. I don't want that to be you. So I really would love you to take the hormone poverty quiz. If you haven't already done that, join me for the Hormone Bliss Challenge so you can learn the steps that you need to take to get from hormonal poverty to hormone prosperity so that you can reverse the symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem and enjoy your life and feel great and produce miraculous results.

    Speaker 1 (14:59):

    The first step to getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are. JP Morgan said it, and it's the truth. No decision, no results. Decision comes from the root de sre, which is Latin to cut away from. To make a decision means you take a stand for your life and you cut away from all other possibilities and you say, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get out of hormonal poverty and get to hormonal prosperity. You make a decision de re and you cut away from all other possibilities and then you go in the direction of your dreams. And there's another quote about when you take steps in the direction of your dreams that the universe conspires to make them happen. So I hope you will harness the power of that. You can do that in many ways. I will help you.

    Speaker 1 (15:49):

    I'm here for you. You can join our Hormone Bliss challenge the next time it launches. Go to Hormone Bliss Challenge and get on the waiting list so you'll be the first to be notified when it opens again in this month of self-love, we have a 20% joiners fee going on, 20% off the joiners fee going on for her hormone club. You'll hear the coupon code in one of the ads running during the podcast. Go to her hormone club.com and use that coping coupon code, coupon code to join as a member and get a prescription for bioidentical hormones throughout the US from the comfort of your own home and have hormones mailed to you. Our board certified doctors who are specialists in bioidentical hormones will consult with you, do the testing and get you the prescription that you need to get out out of hormonal poverty.

    Speaker 1 (16:39):

    So the question to you is, are you gonna make 2024 the year that you take a stand for yourself and you take action? Or are you gonna make this another year that you don't pay attention to yourself? The choice is up to you. I can offer the tools, but it's up to you if you wanna pick them up and use them to transform your life. I'd be happy to. I hope you will join me and hope you've enjoyed this episode and you've been inspired to take action. 'cause That's what it was all about. Until next week and next episode, peace, love, and Hormones,

    Speaker 2 (17:14):

    Y'all. Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormone and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

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  • Welcome to "The Hormone Prescription Podcast," where we navigate the tumultuous waves of midlife with grace, humor, and a lot of knowledge. In this episode, "How To Get To Hormonal Prosperity And Bliss," our host, Dr. Kyrin Dunston, takes us on an insightful journey out of hormonal poverty and into a realm of wellbeing and joy.

    🌟 Key Takeaways:2 million women a year in the United States enter menopause, joining the 50 million already experiencing it. This isn't a niche; it's a significant portion of our population that's often overlooked by mainstream medicine.Personal Journey of Transformation: Dr. Kyrin shares her compelling transformation from weighing 243 pounds and battling numerous health issues, to discovering a new path of health and vitality. This personal revolution fuels her dedication to helping women navigate menopause with more support and less suffering.Listen to the Whispers: Through touching stories and eye-opening insights, Dr. Kyrin emphasizes the importance of paying attention to our bodies' subtle signals before they turn into insurmountable health problems.Hormone Bliss Challenge: Dr. Kyrin discusses the ongoing Hormone Bliss challenge, a space where women share their vulnerabilities and learn to transition from enduring to thriving. Their stories resonate with a powerful message: You're not alone.📚 Episode Highlights:The Underserved Majority: Dr. Dunston sheds light on the vast number of women in menopause who are navigating this stage with insufficient guidance from the healthcare system they trust.A Turning Point: Reflecting on her health crisis, Dr. Kyrin underlines the moment of realization that led her to seek and advocate for better solutions, embodying Maya Angelou's philosophy, "When you know better, you do better."The Power of Vulnerability: By sharing honest stories from participants in the Hormone Bliss challenge, Dr. Kyrin reveals the hidden struggles many women face, masked by a smile and a "put-together" appearance.💡 Inspirational Insights:Don't Wait for the Boulder: Dr. Kyrin wisely notes that waiting for a severe diagnosis to take action is like waiting for a boulder to hit you. Heeding the "whispers" early on can prevent much suffering and lead to a more fulfilling life.Mistakes as Lessons: Highlighting the importance of learning from past attempts at healing, Dr. Kyrin encourages listeners to view mistakes as stepping stones rather than stumbling blocks.🌺 Join the Journey:

    Are you ready to step into hormonal prosperity and bliss? Whether you're tiptoeing in hesitancy or ready to leap into action, this episode serves as a lighthouse, guiding you to safer shores where your well-being is the priority.

    Don't continue to silently suffer or navigate this alone. Dr. Kyrin Dunston's expertise and compassionate approach offer a beacon of hope and practical steps forward.

    Dive into this episode filled with not just expert advice but heartwarming empathy and actionable strategies that could change the trajectory of your health journey. Say yes to the vibrant life awaiting you beyond hormonal poverty.

    Speaker 1 (00:00):

    The first step to getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are. JP Morgan, find out how to get out of hormonal poverty and midlife metabolic mayhem by getting to hormone bliss in this episode. Up next.

    Speaker 2 (00:16):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Speaker 1 (01:10):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me as we dive more into healing, hormonal poverty, healing, midlife metabolic mayhem, and getting to hormonal prosperity so that you can get back into your genes off the couch and back into life. Do you wanna do that? Yeah, sounds good. I know you do. So that's why I am recording this second episode in this series of three solo episodes for you. I know I usually have a guess, but I thought we would switch it up a little. 'cause I know many of you have reached out. You're looking for help and guidance. So I wanted to kind of give you the concrete, concrete steps you need to take to get out of hormonal poverty. Not sure if that's you. Definitely take my hor poverty quiz. We'll have a link in the show notes so you can kind of get an idea.

    Speaker 1 (02:02):

    Hmm, am I in a, could I be in hormonal poverty? Could that be the cause of my symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem? For those of you who aren't familiar with that, that's the 60 or plus symptoms that you can have from hormonal poverty. And hormonal poverty doesn't just mean menopause, it can start in perimenopause. It can be in your twenties and your thirties. You can have it at any age, but just like financial poverty is when you don't have the financial resources to meet your living needs. Hormonal poverty is when you don't have the hormonal resources to meet your body's needs because every cell, every system in the body depends on your hormones, your seven main metabolic hormones to function properly. So yes, it's your female hormones, estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone, but also your other metabolic drivers, insulin, thyroid, cortisol, and DHEA. Those are the seven hormones we're talking about.

    Speaker 1 (02:55):

    So last time I talked to you about really what is the problem, so I just wanna rephrase that. We talked about the planned obsolescence of your ovaries starting at age 35 where you're only born with so many eggs and it's your eggs that mainly make your main female hormones, estrogen, progesterone, and half of your testosterone. And you start getting a lower number of eggs. And these eggs in your ovaries are not very high functioning by the time you reach 35. Yep, 35. And it's kind of downhill from there until most women, average age of 51, have no more eggs. And that's called menopause. So that means hormonal production of estrogen, progesterone, and half of your testosterone ceases at that age. So most women in menopause are definitely in hormonal poverty, but it usually starts around the age of 35 if not sooner. So this affects most of us and if we live long enough, it will affect all of us.

    Speaker 1 (03:58):

    2 million women a year in the United States go into menopause and we have 50 million women in menopause currently in the United States. So we're not talking about a small number of people and we're really underserved by the mainstream medical establishment because of the training and the way it's developed that I participated in for several decades until I knew better. And like Maya Angelou says, when you know better, you do better. So now I know better, so I do better, but I know you're not getting the answers that you want and need in your regular doctor's office. It's not their fault. They're good people and they care. They're just doing what they were trained to do. Like I used to do that. I was trained, but then when my own health suffered and I weighed 243 pounds and had myriad health problems like chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia and hair loss, no sex drive, gastritis, depression, anxiety, then I found a new path.

    Speaker 1 (04:55):

    And that's what I work with women on because I pledge to spend the rest of my life teaching other women about this and guiding them towards health and wholeness if it worked. And I used it and it worked for sure. And that was almost 15 years ago. Now we talked, we had some quotes from some of my podcasts, former podcast guests. I love this one from Jen Simmons. There is no greater perspective than when you lose your health, right? But should we really need to have a bolder drop into our lives and get a cancer diagnosis or an autoimmune diagnosis in order to stop and pay attention and take care of our health? I really hope not. Why? If we listen to the whispers, we don't have to get boulders. 'cause I find that the universe will, when you don't listen to the whispers, will just up its ante and start throwing pebbles, then rocks and then you'll get a bolt dropped into your life.

    Speaker 1 (05:47):

    And that's the cancer diagnosis or the autoimmune diagnosis or the dementia diagnosis that you really never wanted. So better to pay attention now and do something about it. So what are the steps you need to take to get to hormonal prosperity and bliss? Well, I invited some of you, well all of you actually who are on my email list to join me for the Hormone Bliss challenge that is currently ongoing. We've got a bunch of women in there who are really suffering. I was reading through their worksheet ex homework exercises last night and it really touched my heart to see when people get a private audience with me, how honest and open and vulnerable they are about what they're really dealing with. I know you put lipstick on and you comb your hair and you put a smile on your face and you go out every day and you put your bests face forward and you're trying to show and look like you're really doing okay.

    Speaker 1 (06:43):

    But I also know that you're suffering inside. Maybe some of you don't even realize how much you're suffering because it happens so slowly over such a long period of time that you don't even realize the things that are wrong that you're not paying attention to anymore. Or the degree to which they're wrong. So you know, how do you boil a frog in hot water? You just turn the heat up slowly and that it doesn't even realize that it's getting boiled and it doesn't have time to jump out because it happened so slowly where if you tried to drop it into boiling water, it would jump out. So if, if I took you from when you were optimally healthy to where you are now and dropped you in there, you'd probably start screaming and go, I can't live this. Alright. But because it's happened so slowly over so many years or maybe even decades, you don't even really realize it.

    Speaker 1 (07:33):

    So reading the homework assignments, I really saw that the pain that people are in, the things that they've tried that haven't worked, how many doctors they've been to, how many programs they've tried, how all the programs you've tried, all the providers you've been to, all the supplements you've tried, testing you've done, it's exhausting, right? So much time and energy and money wasted and not really a lot of results. And some, a lot of them said in their homework that they wish they had gone to someone who actually had the credentials and experience to help 'em. They were just trying to save money by going to people who are less costly. And the results they got actually showed that these people didn't have the expertise to help them. And it really, it hurts my heart because it's just amazing sometimes that we don't value our health as our number one value and we don't spend our time, money, and attention there and then we suffer.

    Speaker 1 (08:30):

    And then usually when it's too late, then we are willing to stop and spend the time, attention, money, and invest in our health. So I really saw that in the homework and it wore my heart. So we got a lot of people in the hormone list challenge and a lot of them are gonna go on to our midlife metabolism rescue program and get that hands-on help. So that's what I wanted to talk to you about. What are those steps? I take you through those steps in the Hormone Bliss Challenge. This is the first one we've run in over a year and I'm not sure when the next one will be, but I certainly hope you will get on the waiting list. So you can be one of the first to know when we run it. Again, you can go to hormone bliss challenge.com and sign up for the waiting list.

    Speaker 1 (09:14):

    So you'll be the first to be notified because we do limit membership in that program when we do launch it. So I will teach you the actual steps that you need to go through in that program. A lot of people have significant change just in seven days with the transformative steps that I offer. And I love, I wanna share some quotes from some of my former podcast members. And this one is from Deb Matthew. Eventually people will learn that mistakes are meant for learning, not repeating from Dr. Deb Matthew in North Carolina. One of my good friends who does work similar to what I do. You can see her episode in the podcast, archives, mistakes Over Learning, not repeating. If you've tried something over and over again, you've tried changing your diet, you've tried eliminating gluten and that didn't help. You've tried an X supplement and that didn't help.

    Speaker 1 (10:09):

    And you've tried one-shot Wonders and you've tried working with So-called health coaches who didn't have the credentials or experience to help you. Don't repeat it. If it doesn't work, just stop. Right? Mistakes are meant for learning, not repeating. And she has this other quote that's a corollary to that you can't make the same mistake twice the second time. It's not a mistake, it's a choice. So, you know, one thing that's helped me in my life is asking myself, if I have repeated a so-called mistake, why did I make that choice to repeat that mistake? And I'm not perfect y'all. I make mistakes all the time, right? None of us is perfect, we're human. So we're living this human journey. And I do believe that it's all about learning how to be a better human, how to be a better us. I do believe we're each unique in the gifts and struggles that we are faced with in this lifetime.

    Speaker 1 (11:03):

    And I believe that our goal is to work through our struggles so that we can turn them into gifts so that we can show others the way. So I went to medical school to get the biggest toolbox so that I could help women with their health. And then when I got there, did I help a lot of women? Yes, I delivered a lot of babies. I did a lot of pap smears and helped a lot of women. But when my own health suffered and I saw that my patient's health was suffering at midlife and I saw, hmm, this isn't working right. Did I make a mistake going to medical school? No. Did I keep doing what I had been doing that wasn't helping me and helping my patients? No. I stopped and made another choice. And that choice was to find the answers and keep digging.

    Speaker 1 (11:47):

    And I found the answers of root cause resolution medicine. So I went and got trained and it transformed my health and then helped other women to transform their health. And so this is really the journey I've been on and I want to give a call to you to stop making choices, to make the same mistakes and make different choices for yourself so that you can get different outcomes. And it might start with doing the hormone boost challenge. It might start with reaching out 'cause you wanna consult with me, we're now doing that. Or maybe you, you're like, I know that I have sex hormone poverty or flex hormone poverty as I call it, and coined the phrase in my TEDx talk a couple years ago. And I wanna get out of hormonal poverty and I want a prescription for natural bioidentical medicines from the comfort of my own home via Zoom consulting with a physician and the hormones mailed to my inbox.

    Speaker 1 (12:40):

    So we're offering a sale that we've never offered before and won't offer again on her hormone club membership. 20% off, we've never done that. Won't do it again, but it's for this month of self-love. So if you know that's you and you're ready to get started, you can go to listen to the ads on this commercial that are running while the sale's running this month and go to her hormone club.com and use that coupon code to enter and join us and start working at least on your sex hormones in the Hormone Bliss Challenge. We help you not only with your sex hormones, but your other main metabolic drivers that I mentioned. So my other podcast guest, Dr. Carrie Jones, said, if you want to reach your goals, you must shrink the size of your butt. And that's not your BUTT in your jeans, that's your BUT.

    Speaker 1 (13:34):

    That means your excuses. And I know you've got every excuse why your health is not your, not your number one priority. I don't have the time. I don't know the money, I don't have the bandwidth. It's not that important. I'll take care of it when X happens, when I retire, when the kids leave and go to college, right? It's not that big an issue. My partner really doesn't care if we have sexual intimacy. They don't ever mention it anymore. If you're saying that to yourself, you're lying to yourself. So we've all got our butts. Some of our butts are bigger than others, pun intended. But you gotta shrink the size of your butt if you wanna reach your goals. So in order to get from hormonal prosperity and out of midlife metabolic mayhem and get to hormonal prosperity, get your genes off the couch and back into life, shrink the size of your butt.

    Speaker 1 (14:24):

    Join us for the challenge. Join us at our hormone club. Join us for one of my other many programs that are designed to transform your health, transform your life so that you can finally find the answers that you've been seeking. I look for you there and really enjoy working with you personally and helping you to transform your health in your life. Thank you so much for joining me in this show. I will see you next week for another one or maybe in a couple days 'cause I think I gotta be a week or two behind there with the podcast. So we're catching up and please reach out and join me 'cause you need help now, not later. And till next week, peace, love, and hormones y'all.

    Speaker 2 (15:11):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

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    Remember, "The first step to getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are." Your journey to hormonal prosperity and bliss begins with this empowering episode.

  • Is your relationship navigating the choppy waters of midlife? Then you are not alone. In this week's deep dive on "The Hormone Prescription Podcast," we unpack the conversations you need to have but might be dreading. This episode, we tackle erectile dysfunction (ED) head-on with the formidable Dr. Elliot Justin. Let's not skirt around the issue—the man in your life's ED affects both of you deeply. It's essential to address it not just for his well-being, but for yours and your relationship's health.

    Dr. Justin strides into the studio with an awe-inspiring list of credentials: urologist, innovative thinker, and couples' counselor extraordinaire, renowned for bringing new perspectives to midlife challenges. Today, he shares the collective wisdom garnered from years at the forefront of men's health and intimate relationships.

    Midlife can feel like a carnival of changes and curveballs. But when the elephant in the room is ED, that jovial atmosphere quickly transforms into a solo tightrope walk. Dr. Justin encourages us to transform this walk into a joint tightrope act, one that strengthens your bond and navigates the complexities of progesterone to performance.

    About Dr. Elliot Justin:

    ELLIOT JUSTIN, MD, FACEP, is the CEO and Founder of FirmTech, the first sex tech company dedicated to improving men’s erectile fitness. He has a background in Emergency Medicine and healthcare technology consulting. Dr. Justin is also a serial healthcare entrepreneur, having founded and sold Pegasus Emergency Group and Swift MD. He has provided guidance to various services, telemedicine, and tech startups. Dr. Justin pursued Slavic Studies at Harvard University and studied medicine at Boston University. Happily married for 35 years, and father of three children, Elliot and Ann live in Montana with three energetic mares and a flock of chickens

    So, what can you expect to uncover in this eye-opening chat?

    Insights You Can’t Afford to Ignore: Understand just how much ED can influence your daily life, and how to navigate these changes with grace.The Expert’s Plan for Partnership: Dr. Justin’s wealth of knowledge and experience is distilled into practical strategies to face the ED challenge as a team.Innovative Approaches to Speak Up and Heal: Discover modern ways to approach ED—no more outdated stigmas, only up-to-date solutions.Communication is Key to Connection: Learn the importance of open and honest conversation, and some powerful dialogue strategies for building bridges.Success Stories that Give Hope: Real-life experiences and victories will inspire you on your own journey through midlife.

    This episode bears all, from tender anecdotes to strategic wisdom, and catapults us into a space where ED isn't just a problem to overcome, but a journey to undertake together.

    So gather your wits and your earbuds—this one’s going to shake up the midlife conversation in all the best ways. Tune into "The Hormone Prescription Podcast" now. And remember, don't just listen—subscribe, review, and transform the narrative of midlife with us.

    Speaker 1 (00:00):

    “What goes up does not have to come down until you're ready.” Dr. Elliot. Justin, stay tuned to find out why your partner's ED is essential to address and how.

    Speaker 2 (00:12):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones in our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Speaker 1 (01:05):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive into the topic of erectile dysfunction for men. You know, it's kind of interesting that, you know, we women actually get erections of our clitoris. It's really a mini penis and most women aren't aware of that. And if you are not getting erections, that's something that needs to be addressed. I think we dive into this in this episode. In the interview we talk a little bit about this. He calls it something else for women, but for men and women, it really can be a sign of larger health issues, particularly related to your cardiac function, to your heart that can be lethal. So it's something you need to pay attention to. A lot of guys don't talk to their doctors about this issue because they're embarrassed and really, yeah, those days are over.

    Speaker 1 (02:02):

    You need to start talking to your doctors about your sex. You just do. It's imperative. Your sex is not separate from <laugh>. Your total function, your liver function, your hormone function, your brain function, your gastrointestinal digestive function, your heart cardiac function, your sex is an essential part of your body, of who you are, how you function, your vitality. We get into that in this episode. Dr. Justin is on the same page with me. So if your doctor is ignoring your sexuality and not talking to you about it, it's time that you brought it up and demand to have it addressed and also for your partner. But I know that we women sometimes play that role for the men in our lives to be the one to help them get over themselves and talk about this with their doctor. So we're gonna talk about how to do that in this episode and more.

    Speaker 1 (02:57):

    Dr. Justin is not only a physician who's treated many, many patients, but he's a researcher, he's a developer, and he, like me, is always thinking about how we can serve people better? How can we help them live healthier, happier, longer lives? So I think you're gonna love Dr. Justin as much as I love talking to him. Just note, this is an explicit interview. So we do say some words that you might not want your kiddos to hear. So if you don't want them to hear it, you might wanna switch to a different episode and listen to this when you are in privacy. Just a note and I'll tell you a little about Dr. Justin. Then we'll get started. So, Dr. Elliot, Justin is a medical doctor fellow and CEO of the founder of Firm Tech. It's the first sex tech company dedicated to improving men's erectile fist fitness. Most sex companies are just sex toy companies, but this is a tech company to improve erectile fitness. He has a background in emergency med and healthcare technology consulting, and he is a serial healthcare entrepreneur, like I said, always developing things to help people live better lives. And he founded and sold multiple companies and provided guidance to various services. And he's just an all around badass who loves helping people. So I think you're gonna enjoy this episode. Without further ado, please help me welcome Dr. Elliot Justin to the show.

    Speaker 3 (04:31):

    Thanks. I welcome the opportunity to speak.

    Speaker 1 (04:32):

    Yeah. I'm really excited to have you on because you and I both know that men are not talking to their doctors about their erectile difficulties, their sexual difficulties, or low libido, all the problems they're having in the bedroom. We know that they, there are women, female partners are aware, and therefore we're really the ones that need the information. So if you're a woman listening, listen up, because really, I always say that erectile dysfunction could save a man's life, and we're gonna talk about that and you're probably scratching your head going, how could that save a man's life? But I wanna start by, I could explain that, know you have a background. Yeah, we'll get to that. You have a background in emergency medicine and healthcare technology. So what got you interested in diving deeper into the subject of men's sexuality and erectile dysfunction and men's sexual health?

    Speaker 3 (05:34):

    Well, my background, I'm an emergency medicine physician, and since 2015, my, I've been doing medical technology. That's how I got to this as an emergency medicine doctor, I can assure you that's short of a heart attack or a stroke. There are a few emergencies I could concern a man as much as a lip dick. So this is something that's of, of, you know, of vital importance to men, both their self-esteem and their health. I got involved in this. I was actually working on a very complicated catheter to regulate blood pressure after a stroke. A urologist heard what I was doing and said, I see you've done some research with neuromodulation of erectile function, which I had a neuromodulation for. We mean placing electrodes by a nerve and nerves. The paradigm for that is cardiac pacemaker that controls your heart, your heart, even have to even after you're dead.

    Speaker 3 (06:17):

    My thought was if we can control sexuality, the impact on, on, on an aging population would be enormous. I will say that project failed. I tried to neuromodulation the cous nerve, which everyone's favorite nerve no has heard about. Suppose the nerve that's responsible produce orgasms in men or women. We try it out on, on some, on some sheep. And actually, and on myself. We, we to no effect. I actually don't think that we know how orgasms are produced. It's very complicated. Well, oddly, even more complicated than, than the heart. So this urologist came to me about in 2015 and said, I wanna count the number nocturnal erection, not two, excuse me, came me three years ago, 2020, and said, I wanna count the number of nocturnal erections that are leading indicator of mass cardiovascular health. And I said, really? I know, I know anything about it.

    Speaker 3 (07:03):

    I, you know, I mean, everyone knows about morning wood. We poke up partners where it, we made, we laugh about it. But a healthy man has three to five nocturnal erections per night. And if that number goes down, it's a sign of an impending heart attack or stroke. So it's not just an association. Blood take, taking a blood high blood pressure is associated with stroke and heart attack. Declined number of nocturnal reactions is actually a leading indicator. It's predictive. So that I thought, gee, that could be enormous as an emergency medicine doctor. But a, that's another vital sign and a vital sign that would be much more compelling to men probably than any other than the other, other vital signs. And we live in this age of healthcare wearables for pretty much everything except for sex. And what do men, frankly, women care more about?

    Speaker 3 (07:43):

    How many steps they took yesterday or their calorie count or this or this or, or their sexual health. And that's, you know, that's a, that's a rhetoric, rhetoric question for most people. So the numbers are enormous, as you indicated earlier. I mean, 50% of men by age 50 have erectile dysfunction. It's even higher for women. And why is it higher for women? Because postmenopausal women lose their hormonal protection against heart disease. So postmenopausal women have all the same problems that men deal with. Diabetes, high blood pressure, atherosclerosis, auto attacks, et cetera. But premenopausal women take SSR antidepressants and they take hormones all which have, both of which have a significant impact upon their sexual performance as a health. So with d with data, we give people data. We can now transform the quality of, of, of, of health, of healthcare. We can transform how things are managed.

    Speaker 3 (08:35):

    'Cause There's a cliche, if you can track it, you can hack it. So right now, when it comes to sexual health, doctors just really just have opinions. If I go, I'm 70 years old. If I went to a urologist or a sexologist right now and said, I like where my, where my sexual health is right now. I can perform every day. My wife and I are happy, but I wanna keep it there. What can ha what can you tell me? Or I told him, you know, I'm having, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm struggling getting erections. They can wave an ultrasound over my, over my penis in the office, but I'm not getting aroused. I'm not finding out what I really wanna know, which is what's happening when I'm trying to, trying to perform. So if we can give people data, they can then measure the impact of diseases, medications, diet, self effects, all these claims that are made and see what works for them.

    Speaker 1 (09:18):

    Yeah. You know, you, you've made so many great points in that. I just wanna go back and highlight a couple of them. Sure. So number one is that most women don't realize that erectile dysfunction is a problem for women. Women, yes. We get erections, ladies, right? 'cause Our clitoris is a small penis and they do get erect with sexual arousal. And that we women just write off that we're not getting aroused. We don't have orgasms as, oh, it's only a pleasure problem. But it's not just like for men, like you said, it's a leading indicator for cardiac disease. It is a leading indicator for cardiac disease and hormonal poverty for you ladies. So I just wanna highlight that because I think that's essential. But now I wanna go back. So this is great. Okay. That you, you really saw that there was a need for this. And you probably recognize men aren't gonna go to the doctor for this. They're not gonna talk about it. And so you started looking at ways that they could actually measure this themselves, right?

    Speaker 3 (10:22):

    Correct. Well, the doctors are really ignorant about this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I'll, I'll give you two examples in, I was approached by Dr. Hot Hotel and professor of urology at University of Utah to count the nerve nocturnal erections. And he wanted to embed sensors into a device like a condom ring that had six mm-Hmm. But it would have six times the elasticity of the condom ring. And I looked at this device and said, well, that's not gonna work because condom rings break. So have he been a urologist unaware of the fact that this piece of common technology is actually vulnerable to breaking also condom rings can rotate, which means, which means, means you have rotational artifact. And my thought to hit the response was, well, let's do better than that. Let's try to do more than just count the number in external erections. Let's try to figure out the health of all erections. So my thought was to embed sensors into an advanced form of an erection ring or cochran instead of colloquially known as this doctor, I've never used the cockran. Now I have yet to find, well, here's a joke we have at medical, at medical congresses. I'll ask you, how do you tell the difference between a straight doctor and a gay doctor? You ask one question, Rin,

    Speaker 1 (11:27):

    Have you used a coching? Is that the question? <Laugh>? That's

    Speaker 3 (11:30):

    The question you got. How have you used a coching? You got, and the answer is, and, and a straight doctor's like nine is like never. 'cause They just, whether it's male pride or I don't, you know, straight doctors treat rings like a Suman kryptonite. I don't need that. Gay doctors will be like, yeah, like last night you got a better one. So gay straight doctors aren't open to the really, what should be the, the first line of therapy for man who has dysfunction? Then you have, there's no, there's no sense from these doctors about what is, what is normal sexual behavior. The scoring systems that are used by urologists, by sexologists to evaluate men or women for that matter, are focused on penetrative sex. There's the shim score, the atom, the eye, you're probably familiar with these. They don't reflect what people are actually doing.

    Speaker 3 (12:14):

    Mo most se most, most sex between, between partners over the age of 40. Penetration is just a part of it. It's not the focus, it's not the endpoint. And these studies, like something out of the 1950s or 60, are focused on that as an endpoint. Then urologists think, okay, the first line of therapy is to give a PD five medication with Viagra, Ali, p and d, you know, the, the top ones. But those medications put more blood into the penis, but they don't keep it there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> most men's problem is not getting it up. Most men's problem is losing an erection. That could happen for a whole variety of reasons from anxiety, diabetes, hypertension, alcohol, drugs. And then the most common one that urologists don't think about because all men get it, all women get it too, which is venous leak syndrome.

    Speaker 3 (12:57):

    Urologists are sure are surgery oriented. The pill doesn't work. They wanna put an implants into a penis or, or do some sort of surgical procedure. So venous leak syndrome is something that we can be born with. Very, very few men have it where you get blood, the penis, but it leaks out because the muscles that control the veins to hold the blood of the penis aren't, aren't very strong. Venous leak syndrome is something we all experience as we get older. I don't know how old you are. I'm 70. If I sit on a plane for five or six hours, my socks will start to pinch. My wedding band will, my finger will be hard, hard to take off my finger because I have venous link. 'cause As I get older, the, the muscles and my small veins don't pump blood back to my heart as effectively.

    Speaker 3 (13:32):

    It's the same thing for the penis. As we get older, our, our our, the smooth muscles weaken in our penis. We get an erection and we lose it. Now, that loss could be accelerated by anxiety or it can be the very cause of anxiety or, or caused by medications. Our research shows the big cocktails are SR antidepressants and anti antihypertensive and or in combination. But the solution is a plumbing solution. The P five medications put more blood in the penis. A properly used Cochran holds the blood in the penis, allowing a man to sustain erection for more, for a more satisfactory time period. Coing should be mainstreamed. I look at vibrators in my lifetime. My mother's vibrator was in a bottom dress drawer of a supply closet. Just thought we'd never find it. <Laugh>. We didn't know what it was.

    Speaker 3 (14:15):

    We found it. You know, I don't, my wife probably owns seven or eight. My daughter takes 'em on dates. They've been mainstreamed. It's no longer considered to be shameful for women to use a vibrator. Most women, I think in the latest report there were 60 women, 60 million women in the United States own more than one. What do men have? Well, they have these monstrous things called strokers. Like somebody could beat something to death with, they don't have anything, but, but they do have rings. But cochlea have been made the wrong way for many years. Can I, may I explain? Yeah. So I want to come up with a ring that could be worn overnight. Well, this cause I want to count data. I want to count these nocturnal erections. I also want to come up with a ring that could be worn comfortably during sex with sensors inside of it in order to record the duration of the firmness.

    Speaker 3 (14:56):

    Every erection. So we get baseline data on man's sexual health. But ings have been made for 150 years out of tight silicone rings. You have to have an erection before you put them on. 'cause They choke off the blood supply. It's like a NOIs on of penis. I mean, it's like some design by a hangman. I mean, so I thought, let's make coch rings out of a soft elastomer. So these are, I dunno if on camera right now, but these, these, our rings are unique. They're, they're made out of a, out of a soft elastomer. So they're comfortable with us. Silicone makes us adapt to them. I also wanted the ring to be safe, easy on, easy off. Many men are overweight. They, they, they can't, they can't even see their penis. Men who they're, they're anxious. These things need to be made very, very easy for them.

    Speaker 3 (15:35):

    I would suspect that about half the se heterosexual sex in the world starts when a man is scratching his wife's back. When she takes a bra off at night. Women don't like bras in their back because they're silicone in the back. It's itchy to the skin. I was looking at my wife's bra on the ground and I thought, oh, a hook. Women don't put on bras over their heads. A bras is a ring that opens and closes with a hook. Let's make an erection ring with a hook. So it's easy on, easy off. And then let's also design a ring. But that man can put on when he is flacid. So we can put on discreetly, put on hours before second. It could be worn for hours. So it doesn't block the arterial flow. It only constrains the return. And then let's also try to design a ring that will make a man's pleasure more intense.

    Speaker 3 (16:19):

    It's not a vibrator. The way we do that with a man is we draw out the. So we tested a ring on a group of men between the ages of 27 and 70. The goal is that if we put the right, we want to increase the ejaculatory phase by 50%. So with this ring, my ejaculatory phase goes from four seconds to seven seconds. That's a significantly more powerful orgasm. I think it's good as a vibrator, but it's, if it's for an instantly more powerful orgasm. But more importantly now, by putting sensors into it, we, we have a ring that's comfortably worn overnight to count nocturnal erections, which are leading the indicator mass. Cardiovascular health and wandering sex. The ring can measure the duration of firmness of erections. So now men can measure the impact of everything from medications, diseases, supplements, diets, relationships. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> on sexual performance and say what works, what doesn't work.

    Speaker 1 (17:07):

    So I wanna ask you, because you mentioned this before we started recording, and then we touched a little bit on it just then that vibrators are mainstream for women. I mean, there are all kinds you can get like, what did I see online? It was like a superhero shaped vibrator. And I mean, they got everything. So sex toys for women are really mainstream, but not for men unless they're gay men. Why do you think that is?

    Speaker 3 (17:34):

    Well, I think there's several reasons. I think women, one, represent a much larger market. Women do women make what? Like 80% of the purchases overall in the United States or, I, I I think that might, I think it might be worldwide women purchase. If you exclude condoms, women purchase the majority of the sex toys. So when people look at numbers in, in the sex toy area, they say, oh, well men buy more. Well, not, that's not that. Once you exclude condoms, then it's, you know, then it's women. I think women are more open-minded rep represent a larger market. I also think the vibrators have been so enormously successful. No one else has figured out something equivalent for, you know, for men. I think for gay men, it's different. They're really, really focused on, on sexual pleasure and much less inhibited. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And also anal sex requires a harder penis. It's harder to penetrate the anal sphincter than it is to penetrate a vagina. So a ring becomes, you know, it's almost a necessary tool.

    Speaker 1 (18:28):

    Okay. You, you made a comment though before we were recording. There's something about you, the way you said it was pretty comical because you said if a woman brings sex toys into the bedroom, so can you share that, that no problem. Yeah, sure. But if a man, then what happens? Yeah.

    Speaker 3 (18:44):

    When managers introduce sex toys, the industry surveys say they get used one or two times and then they get thrown out. If a woman introduces a sex toy, it, it gets used for as long and as often as she wants, wants it to be used. But, that also inhibits men from buying sex toys as well too, because they're not gonna get used. I also, I don't think any effort has really been made by the industry to make sex, make conquering sexy. But, but I, but the data shows this, this is a really important 'cause and there's, we, we've had an internal study to this effect. And there's gonna be big paper, two pi papers, spout rings at the American Neurology Association and Congress coming up, coming up in in May one is going, is going to show that if a man wants to have a longer lasting erection, a ring is more, more effective than a PD five medication.

    Speaker 3 (19:27):

    Well, big pharma's not gonna like that. And the heterosexual doctors have frankly been, they should have caught on this a long time ago. And if we're using rings, they would realize it. But a ring to dil in our internal data will keep, we were looking at D 2 cent data. So no one has studied D two ence. D two s is the time it takes for an erection to go down. We didn't measure time to go up because there's so many variables involved in that. Are you with a partner? Are you masturbating just by watching porn? You're drinking? We are just interested in the time it takes for erection to go down. 'cause That would be a measure of how much blood is held in the penis. So the ring alone, dala fill alone sustains an erection on the average of two, two to three minutes afterwards. The ring is about four and a half minutes long. And a ring plus the film is about five and a half minutes. So that those are men without Ed. So the takeaway message really is for all men would be, if you want to have a longer lasting, harder erection, put a ring on it and take a pill. Also, if you're a man who suffers prematurely and you want to keep thrusting afterwards comfortably, not uncomfortably, put a ring on it, take a pill. Mm-Hmm,

    Speaker 1 (20:30):

    <Affirmative>, you made the comment several times, and I don't wanna bypass it because I think it's worth talking about. 'cause I know somebody listening is wondering why are doctors so phobic about talking about sex? You know, sexual function is a leading indicator of your overall health and vitality. So looking at a male man or woman's sexual functioning, I think is vital to their overall health assessment. And if there's any difficulty there, it's essential to evaluate it because it corresponds to cortisol stress hormone levels, and there are other sex hormone levels and vascular function, cardiac function, but also as a preventative practice, just like drinking enough water, just like enough aerobic exercise, weight bearing exercise, sex, regular, active, pleasurable sex is vital in promoting vitality. So what are we missing? Because I know women are listening, why isn't my doctor talking to me about this? Why isn't my doctor talking to my partner about this? What is the problem with doctors here?

    Speaker 3 (21:41):

    I have so angry about this issue because we physicians are doing our patients a horrific disservice. I'm seven years old, I'm a doctor. Doctor should feel comfortable talking to me. I've never had a doctor warn me about the sexual side effects of medication. I've never had a doctor ask me about my marriage. Did not ask those questions. Is stupid. It's insensitive. Now. One reason is there are no boxes to check for those things. There's no way of making money addressing those things that they should. And, and, and it actually applies to urologists as well too. They often don't take complete sex stories with people, but just, Hey, here's a PD five medication. We'll do an ultrasound. You're not working. You need an implant. You're not helping a person that way. I completely agree with you. Studies show that if someone has sex every day, their cortisol levels significantly improve.

    Speaker 3 (22:27):

    If men were in control study, big study was done. Whales, I think of Scotland. If men have men with equivalent cardiovascular disease at age 70 start having sex twice a week, their risk of cardiac arrest goes down 50% over the next five years. The benefits are enormous. And we should be recommending to people to have more sex. We doctors make recommendations about diet, about exercise, about sleep, and we don't speak about sex. And if we do speak about it, we are embarrassed. We have, believe me, people wanna talk about it. My, my last year of emergency medicine clinical practice, I said, you know what, I'm just going to do what I was trained to do in medical school. I'm gonna add a sexual history to pretty much all my exams. Well, it turned out even people came in with an ankle sprain. Wanna talk about both? A lot of 'em just wanna talk about their sex lives and they don't wanna talk about this spouse who wants to tell you all about it.

    Speaker 3 (23:15):

    So people, men and women are hungry for this information. And they're, to your point, and I would like to bring it up, Dr. Dustin, we doctors are doing them a tremendous disservice. But I don't know if doctors, mostly doctors are even capable of discussing it because they're kind of, they're relative as, as, as a group. They're relatively pr and conservative in conservative sort. An old, an old fashioned kind of, you know, you know, meaning about sex. Before I got involved in this field, I never, I never went to sexual congresses of urology or society of sexual methodology, which is no one's talk. There's very little talk about pleasure. All the focus is on surgery and pills. And it's not focused on what most con what concerns most people, which is how do I maintain my sexual health if I, if I'm poor sexual health, how, what can I do to reverse it? It's, you know, the, the focus of the doctors is, is on things, I'll be blunt things that make them money. Yeah,

    Speaker 1 (24:06):

    That's unfortunate. And really sex has been relegated to the closet for everyone. And it's such a vital part of health prevention, of promotion, of vitality, prevention of disease. I would be remiss if I didn't ask about, you mentioned some causes and contributors to erectile dysfunction, sexual dysfunction in men. If we didn't talk about porn, because that's epidemic among men in the United States all over the world, globally, how does that affect, and I know there's some women listening who are like, my husband watches porn. Is that part of the problem? Well,

    Speaker 3 (24:42):

    I'm, I'm, I'm ambivalent about porn because for a lot of men it is an escape to a world where they, where they, where in fantasy they, they get what they want and the things that they're not getting from their partners, male or female partners. For some people porn is beneficial. And so are we gonna ban porn because it's also harmful to some people. I wish that people could discuss porn with their partners. That's really where the where it comes in porn becomes. It can become a window into finding out what someone else's fantasies are. And most people, too many people don't have sex regularly. They, so before I talk about, talk about porn, because I'm, I I'm gonna get, I'll get you the mail, the major male complaint about porn in a moment. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> men, too many people stop making love. Hmm. That's, they need to plan for pleasure.

    Speaker 3 (25:23):

    I mean, I, it it, I bring this up with guys at the gym or women, women too, which is like, Hey, you these, because they know what, they know what I'm doing. You, you let me know your love life is not satisfactory. How many hours do you spend working out a week? It'd be like, oh, 10, 14 hours. And I'll say, if you could just take two hours of that away and put that into your relationship, and they look at me like, men and women look at me like I'm nuts. Well, it's that, that that can't be done. I said, yeah, it can be done and should be done with planning. You know, a good love making is no more spontaneous than a good exercise session or, or a great meal meal. I don't just up a great meal

    Speaker 1 (25:57):

    Meal or a great vacation. I

    Speaker 3 (25:58):

    Don't, I don't go there, I don't, I don't know the refrigerator and say, Hey, what, what are the leftovers? Let's have leftovers again, <laugh>. And that's what, and that's, let's have rotisserie chicken for the third night in a row. And that's the problem with a lot of people sex <laugh>. They, they, they get bored with what they're doing with their partners and they don't talk about it.

    Speaker 1 (26:15):

    That analogy. But I love it. It's great. It's so true. You know, and, and I recently, I've really been diving the past six or so months into sacred sexuality and womb wisdom and the whole, you know, three types of orgasms or more, actually five, that women can have. And in diving into this, I've read a lot where the biggest problem for most women regarding sex and why they don't wanna have it, is because their men don't know how to properly work the machinery, how to please them, the different types of orgasms, what's required to get their motors going. And for them to become satisfied and actually to make love. They know how to wham bam, thank you man, kind of ma'am have sex, but they don't know how to make love. And so I'm wondering, where do guys supposed to learn this? Where

    Speaker 3 (27:06):

    Are women supposed to learn? I mean, you, you, because men have all the same complaints about women, men my age and men younger. It's like, oh, she's all, you know, she's, she, she thinks she tugs on my, my penis. Like, like, like, like an arm a machine or, you know, so people, this, this issue cuts both ways. Okay? And this is where people, people need to, people need to, my opinion, they, they need to, to communicate better about what they want. I mean, I, I'll get back to, I'll get back to, to my food analogy. Mm-Hmm. My wife is in the room right now. I don't know what she wants for dinner. And I could eat, you know, I, you know, so I, if, if I want, if I want to, if I wanna really make her happy with, for dinner tonight, I should explore what her, her ideas are.

    Speaker 3 (27:45):

    I think when it comes to sex, people kind of settle into both parties. I go down on her, she comes and then I penetrate her. That's kind of pretty, pretty standard and pretty boring sex that goes, that goes on for most people. This, they would, they would communicate. And that's what, that's, that's where I think porn can be valuable. People watch, if people explore porn together, they will expl expand their vocabulary for love, you know, for, you know, for love making. Also, there are a lot of guys for porn, porn is an outlet for them. The way shopping is for women and people like to say that, that porn built the web, but porn might have built the web originally. But shopping sustains the web, women do 85 to 90% of shopping online. Women have done studies showing that women get the same dopamine hits in their brain that men do from shopping, that men do from Washington porn. So gone to the point of Congress as people like to blame the other sex, but they need to, you know, examine what they're doing. And then they, then they need, they, they need to communicate better about what, about what their mutual needs are and be more. Right. Not saying nothing.

    Speaker 1 (28:45):

    That's fascinating information about shopping. I didn't know that's the case. So you're kind of equating the two.

    Speaker 3 (28:51):

    If women think it's ridiculous that a man wants to look at eight, eight bodies online, a guy might also think it's ridiculous that the woman needs to look at 25 shoes online. It's, it's, it's <laugh>. You know, it's, I mean, but meanwhile to your, you know, Dr. Doc, Dustin, to your point, they could be making love. They could be. They could be. And that's the problem. They're not talking, they're not not playing for pleasure. They're not communicating. In addition to which there are other problems, which circle back to which we, people are taking a lot of medications to interfere with their sexual performance with, you know, half the adult population being diabetic, hypertensive 20, 25% taking anti antis antidepressants. All these drugs have, have, and these diseases have significant impact upon, upon their sexual performance. And people. And the doctors don't do a good job about wanting people to know about the sexual side effects.

    Speaker 3 (29:37):

    So with data, about how long they last, how firm they can get, we have, we're starting to get some data about women with the, the, the trial protocol. We can, they, people can then say, you know what? My doctor prescribed 300 milligrams of whatever antidepressant, but I noticed that around 150 milligrams my erection starts to soften or I can't. So people, I mean of course we, we, we recommend to everyone if they don't make changes, but with their medications before, let's discuss it with healthcare providers. But I know people are doing it because the healthcare providers don't know about them, don't know about these issues and don't prioritize. You know, they, as you said, you said earlier, the least priority for most doctors is someone's sexual performance. But if someone's taking Sri SRI antidepressant and lisinopril for their blood pressure and they can't get it up, but they can't, you're not making, you're not helping, you're not helping the depressions very much and you're not helping their their partner either.

    Speaker 1 (30:29):

    Right? Sex is a natural antidepressant. So <laugh>, if you fix the sex, you probably wouldn't need the medication. So there's a woman listening now and she's really paying attention because she's thinking, wow, we don't have sex. We become like roommates. Either one of us could take it or leave it. Maybe she hasn't gotten out of hormonal poverty. So that's part of her issue. And if that's you, you definitely wanna listen up. 'cause <Laugh>, we are gonna run a special at her hormone club this winter if you wanna join us. But she knows her partner, she's observed that he's having some difficulties, whether obtaining an erection, maintaining having short or premature. How do you suggest that she approach this and talk to him? Because I've heard complaints from women before that when they've tried to bro this subject with their partners, that it has not been met with openness. So as a man, what would you say? How do we approach this with our partners?

    Speaker 3 (31:30):

    That's a great question. Hopefully you have some background information on the guy, because someone, it depends upon the person's age, but if, if it's, if it's a man over 45 or 50 it's the, the likelihood of that person having a physiological problem increases. So you really need to know what someone's blood pressure is, what their blood sugar, hemoglobin A1C is and the blood sugar, what their testosterone level is. There are, there are tests and then there are medications. I, you know, with, I've been impressed with the work that I've done over the last year, speaking to our patients, how many men could be helped just by, just in their medications and 'cause they're often taking multiple medications that that, that often a combination with alcohol are, are affecting their sexual performance. So you need to find out about the base, these, these baseline health factors.

    Speaker 3 (32:16):

    Another issue is these are all hard, such such just discussed, which is if a man can get it up with pornography and if a man is having erections at night when he's sleeping, he should be able to get up with his partner. And if he's not getting up with, with his partner, there's some issue in the relationship more, far more likely not some anxiety producing issue that's built up over the over built up over the years that need that, that needs to be addressed. Addressed. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> between the two of them or, or addressed with, with, with the benefit of, of therapy. That's where ring comes in handy because a lot of those men get, they can get up and then they lo then they lose the erection and then they avoid sex because they, they, they feel I've got it up with her, but I've lost it. It hasn't worked out. That's where ring ring comes with confidence build up because a male erection things very differently than a male without erection. And, and Cochran will keep the blood in the penis even if people are having an argument of some erection.

    Speaker 1 (33:05):

    Is the way for her to approach it with him to maybe say, honey, I have some concerns I'd like to talk to you about. Can we set aside some time this weekend and then secure a time and then just couch it as a health concern and say, you know, I've noticed a, B, C when we are making love and I'm concerned because I heard Dr. Justin talking on <laugh> Dr. Kirin show that this could have indications, meaning that you're at increased risk for heart disease, heart attack and early death, or any of the other things we've talked about. Or that the medications you're on might need to be adjusted. And I'm really wondering if we might be able to go to your doctor or if you could make an appointment with your doctor. Does that sound like a reasonable approach?

    Speaker 3 (33:52):

    Yeah, definitely.

    Speaker 1 (33:53):

    It's non-threatening. Uhhuh <affirmative>.

    Speaker 3 (33:55):

    Absolutely. And it does have to be approached as a partner issue. I mean, men often need the support of their partners just to comply with their medicines. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, I mean women are much more likely to comply with their, with it, with their medicines. Also, I think people need to think about what happens when they try to have sex. And his significance, if a man never gets an erection, doesn't have a a morning erection, this is where a device that can count the overnight that could be worn overnight comes in handy. I'll take it at both extremes. If a man, if a, if a man has a tech ring that can count, he wears overnight and he has nocturnal erections three or more, that man's sexual health is good enough to have to have sex. So that indicates that the issue is not medication related, disease related.

    Speaker 3 (34:36):

    The issue is probably is partnership related at the other extreme, the other extreme, and this happens, we, we, if a man has two or less nocturnal erections or those not, and those erections are, are either weak or not, they just don't occur that partner is getting risk fatigue or jaw fatigue for nothing. 'cause It ain't gonna happen. That man has a significant erectile problem that man needs to, to your point, that man needs to see a urologist and a cardiologist because he has a cardiovascular, cardio urological problem of, of profound significance and he needs help. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So, and that's what, that's, that's where the data really comes in handy. 'cause The data ought to assess what's going on. So it could be, Hey honey, I noticed that, you know, the last six months have been really bad, you know, been difficult for you in, in bed and you start taking medication X just around the same time. Maybe the medication is the problem and maybe we can, with data, we can test whether that is the

    Speaker 1 (35:30):

    Issue. Right. And so the device that you developed actually they can wear overnight and it gives data in the privacy of their own home. Is that correct?

    Speaker 3 (35:39):

    That's correct. It can be one during sex as well too.

    Speaker 1 (35:41):

    Okay. And so how often do they have to use it to get enough data for how long a week takes a month? It

    Speaker 3 (35:48):

    Takes about up to about four uses for the sensors to calibrate the, to the individual's body. 'cause People's, you know, penises vary and, and how firm they get, they vary and, and you know, just variability. Variability in how long, how, how long people last. So I use it the way I use blood pressure. I take my blood pressure once a week. I take my, I measure my sexual health once a week. Oh,

    Speaker 1 (36:10):

    Okay. And then you kind of can follow it over time.

    Speaker 3 (36:13):

    Yeah, we have, we have men who use it every day and we have men who use it frequently. I mean it's been really valuable. There's a whole other issue here too, which can discuss prostate disease, which is, is another issue that prostate disease can, erectile dysfunction can mean a warning sign of prostate disease. So if a man Oh mm-Hmm

    Speaker 1 (36:27):

    <Affirmative> Yeah. We even

    Speaker 3 (36:28):

    Talk that, I'm sorry, sorry I It's okay. So Right, if a man develops is starting to develop erectile dysfunction that man does need, you know, especially an older man, not, you know, old man over the age of 45, 50, that man needs, needs a a ur urology exam as well too.

    Speaker 1 (36:42):

    And men should be getting a rectal prostate exam annually. Correct.

    Speaker 3 (36:47):

    Annually. At least every two, every every two or three years. And if there's a family history, it should, it might need to be done more frequently. Right. I mean the PSA test remains controversial. I think it's a good idea. There might be some false positives, but, you know, why take a chance?

    Speaker 1 (37:00):

    Well what's the current age at which they should be getting that and is it annual?

    Speaker 3 (37:03):

    It's annual, I think it's 55. I I have to look. The indications change so frequently I have to look it up.

    Speaker 1 (37:09):

    Same for women <laugh>. Yeah. So yeah, make sure that your partner is getting the PSA prostate specific antigen and a rectal prostate exam at whatever the current recommendations are. They should be getting that Women you need to be getting your rectal every year <laugh>. They also need the rectal for screening for blood as well. Oh my gosh. This is such good information. And I think you've helped save some men, some women, and some marriages and couplings today because it's vital. Lemme

    Speaker 3 (37:41):

    Talk about that. 'cause We've had two men who had significantly declining nocturnal erections who went to their doctors and, and, and went to cardiology, actually got a cardiology workup and they, and they got catheterized and they got treated. They would've, they could've gone to have a heart, have a heart attack or something more, more disastrous. So the data, the data's fun, but the data's also really, really valuable. Yes.

    Speaker 1 (38:01):

    Very valuable when it comes to health. So ladies, don't ignore it. If your partner is suffering with any of these conditions, take steps to assess what's going on and get it addressed. Because it could be a sign of deeper health issues that could be life threatening, number one. But number two, a great sex life is really an important part of your, not only your physical vitality, but your emotional wellness and your connection to your partner and to the world at large. So thank you so much Dr. Justin for coming on and sharing this wonderful information. You've got some information to share with everyone about where they can find out more about you. We'll have the links in the show notes, they can find out more about your device and about how you are helping men.

    Speaker 3 (38:54):

    Yeah. If I could just add just one other thing, Dr. Dunston, which is that Sure. We're working, we're working on similar technology for women. So we've retested on, on, on, on 38 women and it's, it's our goal by early 25 2025 to deliver data for women that will also allow them to hack their sex, their sexual health in order to have a long, a longer lifetime of, of love making.

    Speaker 1 (39:13):

    Okay. You gotta give us a sneak peek in like one to two minutes <laugh>. Sure. So we can know about that.

    Speaker 3 (39:19):

    Uhhuh we are measuring, it's all about blood flow in men and women. So just as, as the male device firmness is a marker of blood flow in a female device. I don't call it so much erection, but I call it arousal. We are measuring blood flow in the CLS overnight. Women have nocturnal chlor arousal and we are measuring that as a leading indicator of their cardiovascular and cardiometabolic health. And in one during sex, we are measuring their chlor arousal as well. So women can then measure the impact of diseases, diets, supplements, creams, all the, all, all things that that which claims are made for, for their sexual health and see what works best for them.

    Speaker 1 (39:54):

    That's amazing. Thank you for that. Do keep me updated on that <laugh>. I will. So yeah, tell everyone where they can find out more.

    Speaker 3 (40:01):

    Sure. You can find us at my firm tech M-Y-F-I-R-M-T-E-C h.com and you can find me directly at elliot E-L-L-I-O [email protected]. And thank you much so much, doc Dustin, for this opportunity.

    Speaker 1 (40:15):

    Yeah, thank you so much for coming on. I think this has been such valuable information. We will have that link in the show notes and you can go there to click and find out more and stay updated. I'm gonna stay updated on what's coming down the line for women and I'll certainly let you know. So thank you again for joining us for another episode of the Hormone Prescription. I know you are inspired to create a better sex life for yourself and your partner for all its wellness and vitality benefits. I look forward to hearing from you on social media more about this. Have a great week and until next week, peace, love, and hormones y'all.

    Speaker 2 (40:55):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

    ► Learn more about Dr. Justin's works on erectile fitness - CLICK HERE.

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  • Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast. Today, your favorite host, Dr. Kyrin Dunston, delves into a topic that's a game-changer - "Healing Hormonal Poverty - Finding Your Way Out of Midlife Metabolic Mayhem."

    Ever heard of 'Hormonal Poverty'? You might be wondering, what on earth is that? Well, let's draw a parallel here. You know financial poverty, right? It's when you lack the resources to meet your daily needs. Similarly, when your body lacks the hormonal resources to meet its needs, you're in a state of Hormonal Poverty.

    Every cell, every system in your body relies on these hormonal messengers for information on how to function. And when these hormones are out of sync, you're not just battling sluggishness or weight gain, you're at risk of serious health issues like dementia, Alzheimer's, breast cancer, osteoporosis, and heart disease. Scary, isn't it? But hey, don't panic! Dr. Dunston is here to guide us through this hormonal maze.

    What's the opposite of Hormonal Poverty? It's Hormonal Prosperity! It's that blissful state where your hormones are in harmony, leading to an energetic, vibrant, and healthy you. Imagine feeling sexy, confident, and revitalized again... That's the power of Hormonal Prosperity!

    In this episode, Dr. Dunston shares her personal journey from hormonal poverty to prosperity. She lost 100 lbs by mastering her hormones and she's on a mission to empower you with the knowledge and tools to do the same.

    Dr. Dunston sheds light on the seven main metabolic hormones that are crucial for our survival and vitality. Understanding these hormones is your first step towards healing hormonal poverty.

    This episode isn't just informative, it's transformative! It's time to take control of your health, ladies. Let's bid adieu to midlife metabolic mayhem and embrace hormonal prosperity!

    Ready for this journey of healing and transformation? Tune in now to this episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast. Let's heal hormonal poverty together and step into a life of vibrant health and hormonal prosperity!

    Remember, you're not alone in this journey. We're all in this together, learning, growing, and supporting each other. So, let's dive in and start healing!

    Dr. Kyrin (00:08):

    This is the episode for January 25th, healing Hormonal Poverty, finding Your Way Out of Midlife Metabolic Mayhem. Here we go. Oh, let's see a teaser. Here we go. “There is no greater perspective than when you lose your health.” Dr. Jen Simmons. Stay tuned to find Your Way out of Hormonal Poverty and Midlife Metabolic Mayhem. And this is the intro and episode. Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription with me. Dr. Kyrin, thank you so much for joining me today as we dive into talking about healing hormonal poverty and finding your way out of midlife metabolic mayhem. Hopefully no need for an introduction, but if this is your first time listening to me, I'll, I'll give a little intro on myself if you're not familiar. I'm Dr. Kyrin Dunston, the 30 years veteran board certified OB GYN Fellowship, trained in anti-aging, metabolic and functional medicine.

    Dr. Kyrin (01:18):

    I'm also shamanically trained in the UTI Mesa tradition from Peru. I'm also a life certified life coach and a bunch of other things because I've spent my life helping women heal. And I learned by doing, I've learned by healing my own body, mind, spirit, soul, so that I can show the way to women like you. Maybe you're over 40 at this point, maybe you're not. Wherever you are on the life age spectrum, there's something here that can help you. And what we're gonna talk about today is healing. Hormonal poverty. Hormonal poverty. You say, what's that? Good question. Well, you're familiar with financial poverty. When you don't have enough money to meet your living expenses, you're considered to be in financial poverty. Well, when you don't have enough hormonal prosperity to meet your body's needs, you're living in hormonal poverty. All cells, all systems in your body depend on hormones which are chemical messengers in your body for information. They need these hormones for information on how to function. Your nervous system gives a lot of information on how to function, but not when it comes to your metabolism. That's the purvey of your hormones. They're what regulate your metabolism. And every woman knows what your metabolism is. It's how your body takes calories or energy in and converts it into,

    Dr. Kyrin (02:58):

    Into energy. And you know, when you don't turn calories from food or fat into energy, you are tired and you gain weight. So those are the two hallmark symptoms of a low metabolism and they might be your two biggest symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem. What's midlife metabolic mayhem? You say? Great question. It's the 60 or so plus symptoms that women experience sometimes earlier than 40, but definitely over 40. By the time we are 50, about 60 to 70% of us are overweight or obese and we're tired. But we also have myriad other symptoms. We can have brain fog, memory lapses, depression, or dysthymia not feeling like ourselves, lack of lust and joy for life. We can have somatic symptoms in our gastrointestinal tract, right? Our digestion can go wonky. We don't poop properly When we eat something, it might upset your stomach and we have no idea why.

    Dr. Kyrin (04:07):

    Maybe we're having migraine headaches or muscular tension headaches and we don't know why. Maybe we've developed arthritis aches and pains, myalgias. Every system in the body is affected and there are over 60 plus symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem. And this is due to our programmed obsolescence of our hormones. Yep. We ladies are programmed for our ovaries to go offline. Starting about the age of 35. They start declining and then by the time we're 51, the majority of us will go into what's called menopause. So you could be in the perimenopause, pre menopause, whatever you call it. What really matters is how much hormone do you have? We're talking estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone. Those are the three main sex hormones for women. Yep. We women have testosterone too. And it's super important, just like men have all those three hormones too. They just have more testosterone and we have more estrogen, but they're essential for us to function properly.

    Dr. Kyrin (05:13):

    And when we don't have them, we're living in a state of hormonal poverty. And midlife metabolic mayhem can ensue, but not only that disease can ensue. So rates of dementia and Alzheimer's are increased in women in hormonal poverty, breast cancer, osteoporosis, cardiac heart disease, and heart attack. The number one killer of women over 50. So it's essential to identify if you're in hormonal poverty with testing, we test don't guess. And to get out of hormonal poverty, you might not need a prescription. Right? That's why I do what I do because you need education to figure out, well, what do I need to look for? Because unfortunately, I was just a regular board certified OB GYN for many years, and hormonal testing is not standard of care and it's considered not a viable option in mainstream medicine. Don't believe me. Go ask your doctor to test your hormones.

    Dr. Kyrin (06:18):

    Now, if they do, they're probably gonna do a blood test, which is not the right way to test hormones. And I'm gonna tell you why in my upcoming course, the Hormone Bliss Challenge. I'm gonna tell you that and a lot of other things that you need to know about the steps to get out of hormonal poverty and into hormonal prosperity because it's more than I can tell you in one short podcast. So it'll be a quick 70 day challenge. We'll meet for 30, 30 minutes each day. We'll be live on Zoom. You can meet with me, ask me questions directly and interact with the other participants. People love this course. And you will then have the ABC's one, two threes of, yeah, Dr. Karen, you can identify yeah, I'm in mid midlife metabolic mayhem. Yeah. I'm having these pre diseases or diseases are on my way to having them.

    Dr. Kyrin (07:14):

    Yeah. I don't wanna have my longevity cut short because of hormonal poverty. Show me the way and I'm gonna show you the way and the exact steps that I took and the exact steps that thousands of women I've worked with have taken to get out of hormonal poverty in the Hormone Blis challenge. And it starts on February 8th, right before Valentine's. So Valentine's February is the month of self-love. I say 2024 is the year of self-love. I've got another episode in the podcast coming up for you in a couple weeks about what self-love means and looks like in 2024. 'cause It's not your self-love of 2020 to 2023. It's a whole different ballpark of lava. Don't know what lava is. Come join me for that episode and I will tell you it's a different way of living in the world. So for this month of love, you're gonna love yourself.

    Dr. Kyrin (08:13):

    Taking action and joining me for the challenge will be the first step. So we're gonna help you identify if you're in midlife metabolic mayhem and the exact steps to get out, why the blood testing your Dr. May offer you is not correct and what is the right testing to get. And because you wanna test, don't guess. And if you do need treatment, there are two things you need. So why do I call this podcast The hormone prescription? I call it that because there are two prescriptions you need for hormonal prosperity. One might be a written prescription for estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone. Don't forget that one. It's essential.

    Dr. Kyrin (08:55):

    That's one prescription. The other prescription is the life prescription. And we talk a lot about that on the podcast here. It's your diet, it's your exercise, it's your mental diet, emotional diet, what you're taking in externally. Supplements you might be taking or not taking, activities you might participate in or not participating in, sex you might be participating with or not participating with. It's everything else in your life besides the first prescription. So the podcast is the hormone prescription and it's about all of that. So I'm gonna be teaching you about the exact steps you need to get a prescription if you need one, and the exact steps you need to get the life prescription that you need to get out of hormonal poverty and get into hormonal prosperity. So one of my former guests, Dr. Jen Simmons on the podcast, talked about women's health and breast health and hormones, and she had some great quotes.

    Dr. Kyrin (09:54):

    I shared one in the teaser. There is no greater perspective than when you lose your health. If you think, oh, I'm gonna deal with this next year. Oh, when I retire, I'm gonna deal with this. Oh, it's not that bad. Oh, I'm just gonna go to my HMO doctor to deal with this. You're sorely mistaken. There really is no greater perspective than when you lose your health. I recently came back from a year and a half trip traveling across the globe to Africa, the Middle East, Europe, and everywhere I went, people asked me what I did. And I talked to them about, I help women get out of hormonal poverty into hormonal prosperity. And of course, <laugh>, a lot of them were women over 35, 40. Oh my gosh, I need what you do because here are the symptoms I'm dealing with. And they would list, like, the one that comes to mind is the dental hygienist I saw when I was in London a couple weeks ago.

    Dr. Kyrin (10:48):

    She immediately said, oh my gosh, my periods have been crazy. They're super painful. They're very irregular. I have no sex drive. She whispers to me, which is very common because most women don't talk to their doctors about that. But she felt comfortable. I get these headaches, my hair is falling out, I can't remember anything. And my doctor told me, you must be depressed. And he gave me an antidepressant. Can you relate to that? She said, I'm not depressed. Why did he gimme an antidepressant? This is happening globally, y'all. It's not just in America. We're being gaslit and told that we don't have the hormonal poverty that we have. And that's just 'cause mainstream medicine doesn't recognize it. That's a whole other topic we'll get into in the Hormone bliss challenge. And so she needs help. So she's like, can I, can you help me?

    Dr. Kyrin (11:39):

    And yes, I help women globally. You can be anywhere in the world and participate in this seven day challenge. And in my coaching programs, we help you get the testing you need, the prescriptions that you need if you need them and the life prescriptions that you need so you're not alone. All right, I got to jump off. So yes, there's no greater perspective than when you lose your health. She's losing her health. Sometimes people wait when it's just symptomatic until they get a breast cancer diagnosis or they get an Alzheimer's diagnosis and then it's kind of too late. So you need to do something sooner rather than later. Dr. Jen also shared this quote, the only person who can heal you is you, your doctor, is don't wait for your doctor to go get fellowship training and do all the training that I've done to get this information until wake up to the truth.

    Dr. Kyrin (12:32):

    You'll be well gone from this planet if you wait that long. 'cause It takes sometimes 30 years for cutting edge science to find its way into mainstream medicine. And you don't have that kind of time. So you can learn from <laugh> my, my path and my mistakes. Dr. Jen also shared this quote I love, not only was I on the right, not on the right path for myself, but I wasn't on the right path for my patients because she too has a story just like me of having ill health using mainstream medicine, not knowing she was in hormonal poverty. Finding, seeing the light, finding the right way, and getting on the right path so you don't have to wait. Learn from other doctors, other female doctors, I will say, because we've hit the wall and we know the way. And this is gonna help you get out of hormonal poverty into a hormonal problem.

    Dr. Kyrin (13:35):

    A friend of mine said this to me yesterday and I just loved it. She said she saw a meme online that said, most people are waiting and looking for the light at the end of the tunnel end. But in the meantime, I'm gonna light this up, <laugh>. So I thought that was great because she's not waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel. She's gonna create her own light. And the hormonal challenge is gonna help you create the light that's gonna light your path from hormonal poverty to hormonal prosperity. So I hope you join me. Go to hormone bliss challenge.com. H-O-R-M-O-N-E-B-L-I-S-S-C-H-A-L-L-E-N-G-E, <laugh> hormone bliss challenge.com to find out more and sign up. It starts February 8th. It's a small investment of time for a big return on your small investment. This has transformed women's lives. You'll see our test test some of our testimonials on that page when you go there. And we look forward to meeting with you, seeing you there, helping to support you, nurture you, and help you to help yourself and give yourself the lava and self-love that you deserve in 2024 in February, the month of love. Hope to see you there.

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  • Ready to learn the secret to staying out of the nursing home and living your best life at midlife? It's easier than you think, and our guest expert on today's episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast is here to tell you how! We were thrilled to have Amy Wilson, a Board Certified Geriatric Pharmacist, certified fitness professional, and certified nutrition coach on the show to share her wisdom, insights, and real-life tips for conquering midlife challenges. She is dedicated to helping people optimize their health and wellness in midlife, which can be the key to staying active and independent as we age. In this episode, we dive deep into navigating individual barriers while navigating through the journey of midlife health and wellness. Amy shares her proven techniques for finding the balance we all crave in midlife.

    Amy passionately reveals her top strategies for successful weight loss, regaining good health, and keeping yourself out of the nursing home, emphasizing that it all starts with one important factor: "Optimizing your starting line at midlife." Here are some of the powerful takeaways from today's episode: 1. Importance of Individualized Approach: Amy stresses the importance of understanding that every person is unique and requires a tailored approach to their fitness, nutrition, and self-care journey. 2. Nutrition & Fitness Balance: Exploiting simple everyday dietary changes and incorporating regular exercise routines can make a massive impact on the quality of life. 3. Mindfulness & Emotional Well-being: In addition to maintaining physical health, Amy emphasizes the importance of nurturing mental and emotional wellbeing. This includes staying connected with friends, family, and hobbies that bring joy to our lives. 4. Learning from Real-Life Stories & Scenarios: Amy shares inspiring stories of her clients who have successfully overcome midlife challenges, regained their health, and lived a happier, more fulfilling life. These tales will not only resonate with you but also motivate you to take the first step towards a vibrant life. Grab a cup of tea or your favorite beverage, find a comfortable spot, and soak up everything Amy has to offer in this episode. You'll come away feeling inspired and ready to embrace a healthy, balanced, and fabulous midlife!

    Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review The Hormone Prescription Podcast, and as always, we're grateful for your support. See you on the next episode!

    Speaker 1 (00:00):

    Today I do what others won't. So tomorrow I can do what others can't. Amy Wilson, what do you need to do today so that you can do the things that you wanna do tomorrow? Stay tuned and find out.

    Speaker 2 (00:15):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife. If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Speaker 1 (01:09):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive into talking about staying out of the nursing home. I know that's not a topic that you might pick to listen to or talk about, but you know what? If you don't pay attention to the things that are gonna keep you out of the nursing home now, then 5, 10, 20, 30 years down the line, you might end up there. And it's really a place of last resort that you don't want to end up in because people don't go there to get better and go home. They go there when the end of the line is in view and there's nothing else that can be done from them. And these days you're gonna hear from Amy. She's gonna talk to you about how 40 and 50 and younger year olds are ending up in nursing homes for things that are fully preventable and treatable if they had done the things that we're gonna talk about today.

    Speaker 1 (02:04):

    Do I have your attention now? Yes, I think so. So she's gonna talk to you about doing the things that others won't do. For whatever reason, they don't want to, they don't think it's necessary. They don't think they have a problem. They think it's not gonna happen to me for whatever reason. They're not doing the things. What are the things you need to do so that tomorrow you can do what others can't? Meaning you won't end up in a nursing home, you'll be able to travel the world, go dancing, do all the things that you love to do that I love to do, right? You wanna stay healthy, vital, alive, having fun and enjoying your life. And there's some things that you need to pay attention to that you might not be paying attention to. So we're gonna dive into that. We're gonna talk about your purpose.

    Speaker 1 (02:48):

    We're gonna talk about why you need to eat more <laugh>. Yes, eat more. I said we're gonna be talking about that. We're gonna talk about Ozempic and some of the other weight loss drugs. So lots in this episode to share with you. I'll tell you a little bit about Amy and we will get started. So Amy Wilson is a board certified geriatric pharmacist. So she knows nursing homes, a certified fit fitness professional, and a certified nutrition coach with over 30 years of experience whose mission is to empower and equip her clients to take charge of their health and find balance in their lives so that they can navigate through individual barriers and finally be successful in their efforts to lose weight and regain health. At midlife. She's gonna talk to you about optimizing the starting line instead of worrying about the finish line. What does that even mean? So please help me welcome Amy to the show.

    Speaker 3 (03:46):

    Thank you for having me. I'm I've, this is my favorite kind of a conversation to have.

    Speaker 1 (03:50):

    Yes, mine too. Anything that helps women, particularly women over 40, get the health that they're wanting and improve their lives is right up my alley. And I love the conversation we started having just before we hit record. When I said kind of what is your main differential that you offer women and share what you said. 'cause I think it's really powerful

    Speaker 3 (04:15):

    Main difference is that I am not skinny. I think chasing skinny is something that we need to stop. And I know that may sound crazy because we live in a society where we think that being skinny means happiness. Being skinny means being successful, but that's not the case. What I am hoping to help people, especially women over 40, is to realize that skinny is not the end all be all. What we need to be chasing is health. What we need to be chasing is strength and balance. I'm a board certified geriatric pharmacist. I work in nursing homes. That is my, I would say my main goal is to make sure that you don't end up in one of those. Where are you gonna be in 20, 30, 40 years if you're chasing skinny? More than likely, it's very possible you may end up in one of those because of a bone fracture, because of osteoporosis. But if you start looking at health and healing from the inside out and start looking at strength and balance, then the sky's the limit. And hopefully your future self is saying, thank you very much for putting me in this amazing position where I can still live my life independently.

    Speaker 1 (05:24):

    Amen to that. Yeah, I loved you, keeping you out of my nursing home. That's it. And really, you know, we don't spend our lives thinking about that. We're very mortality-phobic in the Western culture where we don't talk about death. We actually act like it's something that's not gonna happen to us. And we don't like to have end of life discussions and we don't like to have nursing home discussions. But a large majority of us are gonna end up there. And a lot of us are gonna end up there for exactly the reasons that you've said because we've lost bone mass, which means that we've most likely lost muscle mass. And if we're chasing skinny our whole lives, we're probably not helping our bones. We're probably not helping our muscle mass. It's notorious that we don't get adequate protein intake. And so we're actually buying a ticket to the nursing home and I don't wanna be there. I know most of you don't wanna be there. So I think it's time we have a real discussion and get honest and have a mortality discussion and really start talking about what we're talking about when we talk about health for women over 40. It's not only our longevity, but it's our vitality span. So how did you, as a geriatric pharmacist, Amy, become interested in this? What makes you so passionate about it?

    Speaker 3 (06:46):

    Well, it's kind of like my story starts when I was 16 years old and started yo-yo dieting and then went to pharmacy school and became a fitness instructor while I was going through pharmacy school. So I've been in the fitness and nutrition realm as well as the pharmacy realm for quite a while. But there was a huge disconnect because of wanting to be skinny, wanting to help clients lose X amount of weight, and then seeing them turn around and put it back on again. Or seeing them just feeling frustrated that their bodies weren't doing what they wanted to do. Or especially when you get 40, 45, 50, everything that you used to do stopped working. Well guess what? Same here. That happened to me. And you know, with hormones, things change. And what happened was, honestly, all the yo-yo dieting I did for years decreased in muscle mass, affected my metabolism, affected my hormones, and I had to do something that was different. And while I was starting researching and looking at different programs for me to try, I was also seeing this increase in younger patients coming into my nursing homes. And by younger I mean forties and fifties,

    Speaker 1 (08:02):


    Speaker 3 (08:03):

    That shouldn't be happening. It shouldn't be. And 10 years ago it was all eighties, nineties and one hundred. It's, it's, you know, the end of life. It's no longer live by yourself. Well now we're no longer can live by yourself In forties and fifties. We are getting lifestyle diseases of diabetes, hypertension, strokes, certain cancers that are caused by lifestyle. And that is scary and it's also preventable. And so I saw this as, you know, not only can I help perimenopause and menopausal women, but I have to also educate on what we're doing and what we're not doing when we eat ultra processed foods, what we're causing disease states. And then also having women understand that we have to stop chasing skinny and we need to start focusing on the health aspect. We need to start focusing on the strength aspect because that is gonna decrease our chronic inflammation that is gonna help our hormones, that is going to help us be independent for years down the line.

    Speaker 3 (09:13):

    And that's, I think that's what everybody wants. Nobody thinks about, oh, I'm gonna end up in a nursing home. Nobody thinks that I'm gonna be in assisted living. We all see ourselves going until our last breath. But we don't realize that a lot of things that we do, we set ourselves up for. You don't go to the doctor's office and it's like, oh by the way, you just got diabetes or you just got blood pressure, high blood pressure that has been coming for years. Your body's been telling you and sending you signs. We just choose to ignore it because we think we're busy or it has to do with stress or it's, you know, I have this going on so that's why I'm not sleeping. When we start listening to those signals that our body is sending us, we can start kind of dialing back what we need to do. And when I saw this big disconnect and when I saw the increase in my nursing homes, then putting two and two together with what was going on with me, it was kind of like this trifecta. I'm a fitness instructor, I'm a nutrition coach, I'm a pharmacist. Okay, let's put all these things together and help people move forward, help people learn how to balance, help people learn to get strength and to eat and quit starving so that their future self can thank them.

    Speaker 1 (10:23):

    Yes. And I'm just wondering, as you're working in these facilities and you're seeing younger women come in, what kind of the patterns that you were noticing that were different in their lifestyle, in their genetic background, in their history? Were you noticing particular patterns that you found that you could work with them on? Or was it kind of too late for them? Or what was the situation there?

    Speaker 3 (10:53):

    Fortunately, once you're in the nursing home, it is too late. It is just the way our healthcare system is. We are not a preventative healthcare system. But I'll look at their history and physical and I'll look at their discharge summary and I will look at what's been going on in their lives. And a lot of it is uncontrolled type two diabetes started as pre-diabetes to type two diabetes. A lot of it's being sedentary, not moving and doing, you know, they don't say in the history and physical what they've been eating, but you can kind of summarize by what's going on. It's been ultra processed food, it's been fast food, it's, they haven't been walking or working out. They've lived a sedentary lifestyle causing chronic inflammation. And then something happens where they can no longer take care of themselves. And now they're in a facility that is pretty much just taking care of you. It's not there to help you get better, get stronger to go back out in the community. Rehab will do that, but they can only do so much with the time that they're allowed. And a lot of it's not changing the behavior, it's not changing the food that they're eating or putting them on a certain exercise program. It's just to get them good enough so that they can go home.

    Speaker 1 (12:10):

    Right. And you know, isn't it interesting? Well, it's sad actually that in 2024 we don't have dietary history as part of the intake, even though we know the extreme impact that diet has on life. But like you say, people are going there to be taken care of, they're not going there to get better. So I love it you took that and you said, oh no, this can't be, we need to keep people out of the nursing home. What do we need to do? So, and I'm just curious, as a certified nutrition coach, what was your evolution? Did, were you a pharmacist first and then became a nutrition coach and then fitness trainer? What was the evolution for you of your path?

    Speaker 3 (12:59):

    So I started teaching when I was 17, teaching fitness classes. So back in the days of leg warmers, big hair, all that kind of high, low and high, low gene Fonda days. And I am a diagnosed exercise addict. I used to try to out-train a bad diet, but in the eighties we didn't know it was a bad diet. In the eighties everything was low fat, it was all replaced with sugar, which we didn't realize at that time was gonna set us up for our diabetes journey. And I didn't even think about it. I would just feel guilty for eating something. I would go work out and then I would also personal train and I would personal train and work out with my clients. I blew my back out and it wasn't a good thing. I blew it out. I had to have surgery.

    Speaker 3 (13:43):

    You think that would've taught my lesson, but it didn't. And I was right back after surgery doing everything I was doing before, because we really have come a long way in nutrition in the last five to 10 years. Back then it was still how much you work out, how little you eat. And that was the key to keeping your weight off. We now know that doesn't work. We now know there's, there's reasons why it doesn't work. So in my thirties, I was looking for different nutrition programs. 'cause As a pharmacist, as a fitness coach, people come up to you and ask all the time about diet, about nutrition, about supplements. So I have several certifications under my belt, but they were still calories and calories out. What you and how much you work out coming into my forties perimenopause hits and the inches are crazy.

    Speaker 3 (14:36):

    And I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm teaching all the time. I'm working out. I'm not eating. I tried keto, I tried the latest and greatest because I am just like everybody who's listening to this podcast, I want a fix. I want it quick and I want it now. And I will try anything that looks like it might work. We're, none of us are immune to that. We all see it, we all see the shiny object. We're like, oh, maybe this will help me. And after trying all those and it would work for a hot minute and then not, it was watching a couple other friends who were instructors do a program that was called The Fast Weight of Fat Loss. And I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna try it. I threw a Hail Mary pass, tried it, didn't think it would work, it did.

    Speaker 3 (15:18):

    It was taking science, it was eating for what my body needed and which was a lot more than I thought. And was also really focusing on bloating that muscle. And then once I did that, it was amazing at what, how my body responded. I was pre-diabetic because thanks dad, that came through my genetics. But it was also pre-diabetes coming with the decrease in estrogen. My cholesterol was higher, my thyroid wasn't doing well. And then when I started eating and I started working out less lifting, all of those things started just to fall in place. A1C went down, my thyroid went back to normal, cholesterol was back. So it was kind of crazy. And I knew for me that if I was this way, there were a lot of other women that needed help, who were throwing their hands up in the air and saying, this is not fair.

    Speaker 3 (16:14):

    Why is this happening to me? And trying everything out there only to get frustrated. And when I switched in my head with health and strength and stopped chasing skinny, it was the light bulb. It was, okay, this is what we are meant to be. This is how we're supposed to be treating our bodies. Our bodies are one big chemical reaction and we need to be giving it the right fuel, the right chemicals in order for it to do its thing. Instead of relying on the latest, greatest shake or packets of food, we need to understand that it's science. There are reasons why we need to eat certain foods. There are reasons why ultra processed foods do not help us. And I think honestly, when I started putting two to two together and getting rid of that disconnect of what food does to your body and understanding what food can do, that was the aha moment. And I get that with all my clients now too. It's like when they get that aha moment and realize that, oh wait, there really is a correlation to what I put in my body and how I feel and how I'm sleeping and how much energy I have and losing inflammation. And when you get that, you don't wanna let go of it. Yeah.

    Speaker 1 (17:29):

    And you know, I think it's so important to talk about what food is. I think most people are trained to think about food in terms of calories. It's just caloric energy when it's so much more. It's information. There's the energy information that comes with food, there's the nutritional information that comes with food. And then when there is non-food stuff in food, there's the chemical information. And so there's so many aspects to food. There's the allergic component that maybe an IgE allergy or there may be a sensitivity and there is intolerance, particularly when it comes to dairy. So there's so many considerations for the food that you put into your body. I think most people really need to expand their understanding of what food is. It's just like education. When your kids go to school, they don't just learn one subject. It's not just one subject that they learn.

    Speaker 1 (18:30):

    There's so many. And so food is equally as complex. I think that this would be a great time, since you are mentioning weight loss, it is the beginning of a new year. A lot of people didn't meet their weight or health goals last year and now they're on the resolution and they're like, I know I hear you Amy, but I'm just gonna go get that medication that my friend took where she lost a ton of weight and then I'll deal with doing it. Right. Do you wanna talk a little bit about some of these medications like ozempic that are available that some people are getting amazing weight loss results with?

    Speaker 3 (19:05):

    If you haven't heard of these medications, they're called GLP one glucagon. Like Peptide one, Ozempic, wegovy, Monro. And there's several others that are gonna be coming out pretty soon. And first of all, if you're on them, and this is not to beat you up and say, oh my gosh, I can't believe you're doing this, this, I'm gonna give you the pros and cons and then if you're on them, what you need to also be doing in conjunction with those medications. The problem with those medications are some of the how it works or the side effects and how it works is that it slows down your GI tract. So it will slow down gastric emptying, which causes you to feel full. And I know every female is going, oh my god, it's about time. I want something that's gonna help me feel full. I want something that does that.

    Speaker 3 (19:49):

    Yes and no. If you feel like you're a bottomless pet, if you feel like all you do is crave sugar, I'm going to challenge you with the fact that you're probably not eating enough and you're probably not eating enough protein either. We can actually work with our own hormone, the GLP one by what we intake and food-wise. But what the medication does will slow down gastric emptying. It will also help with insulin and insulin sensitivity and insulin resistance. Those are great. But the side effects are that it can cause something called gastroparesis, which is a total shutdown of your GI tract. Unfortunately, it's not reversible. It's something that you'll have to live with for the rest of your life. And if you know anybody with gastroparesis, it is not a pretty disease state at all. And the other thing that it does, because you're not hungry, you are not eating, your body, like I said, is a chemical reaction.

    Speaker 3 (20:45):

    It needs fuel. If you are not giving your body fuel, your body's pretty smart number one goal is survival. And it's gonna take amino acids from your muscles. It's gonna take minerals from your bones. So what we're gonna be seeing probably in about, I wanna say three to five years of something I call old lady syndrome, we're gonna see those people who should not have it yet in a disease state of osteopenia, osteoporosis, sarcopenia, which is muscle wasting. We're gonna see all these later on age-related diseases because of not intaking the proper fuel. And that's scary. And it's all because of chasing skinny. So if you are looking at taking something, maybe you have a high A1C, which is diabetes, pre-diabetes, maybe your doctor says this is what we need to put you on. If that's the case, then please, please, please work with somebody to make sure that you're getting adequate protein to make sure that you are building muscle and that you are getting your vibes and minerals.

    Speaker 3 (21:46):

    Because the last thing we want is for your body to take away from your muscles and your bones. And that's what we really need to focus on with these medications. If we can do it without the medication, perfect. If you're gonna go on the medication, please be aware of the side effects because a lot of people go in and say, oh you know what, it won't happen to me. I'm not gonna be that person. You have to be prepared to be that person that it happens to. And then also understand that, you know what, maybe I can try one more thing before I go on this medication. One more thing, I never tried really eating. I've always starved. I never really tried weightlifting to get some muscle mass. Maybe if I just try this one more thing, that would be my ticket to where I wanna go health-wise and not have an injection that pretty much I will have to be on for the rest of my life.

    Speaker 1 (22:37):

    Yeah, I think those are all super important points. And I've honestly never seen a person who said they had tried, quote unquote tried everything to lose weight and said they couldn't lose weight. I've even had people say, I haven't been able to lose a pound in 20 years when they address the underlying causes, the hormone imbalance, the gut dysfunction, the toxicity, all the things that weren't able to lose the weight. And so I've, I, that's why I don't know much about these medications is because I don't use them. 'cause They're really, I don't find that they're necessary. And like you say, they have potentially short and long, long-term negative consequences and you really do have to be prepared to be that person who got that side effect from that drug. So I know that you take a much more holistic approach to, it sounds like that's not your first line either.

    Speaker 3 (23:30):

    To me it's almost, I would say the last line and you know, I had, I was talking to someone yesterday. Well what about people with diabetes? Absolutely there are purposes for medication. I would say I'm a pharmacist who prefers that you try something else before medication or that we try to get you off of medication. All medications have side effects. I don't care what medication, all supplements will have side effects too. So I'll get somebody I like, but it's natural. Yeah. So is Deion that is used for your heart. That's all natural too. It's a flower, it's a plant. And there's still side effects with that. And to understand that the one thing that doesn't really have side effects for most people, unless you have an allergic reaction, is nutrition and weightlifting. The side effects are positive, they're not negative. And so if we can kind of get back to realizing that Mother Earth has pretty much provided us everything that we need that we don't need pharmaceuticals, they're there.

    Speaker 3 (24:26):

    Pharmaceuticals are great for treatments but not necessarily cures most of the time. And you know, who wants to be someone in my nursing home who's taking 30 medications? Because when you start with one medication, you're gonna take another medication and then there's a side effect. So there's another medication. Nobody starts out wanting to take a pill for this. It just happens. And then there's another pill. So if we can stop that whole cascade in the first place and yeah. Does it take a little bit more work? Absolutely. I'm not telling everybody this is, this is rainbows and unicorns. It takes behavioral change. It takes work to learn how to eat for what your body needs. It takes work to learn how to prepare food again instead of going through a drive-through. But is it possible and is it the best and possibly the right thing to do? Absolutely.

    Speaker 1 (25:16):

    You know, I had this visual come to mind when you were talking about going on medications, but really the, the first medicine for the body is food and movement are the first two medicines. And it's kind of like, you know, we say, oh but there it's natural, but cyanides are natural and can kill you. Right. It's just natural. Doesn't mean it's good for you. I don't know why, but transportation popped into my mind. Airplanes. So taking a drug for everything is kind of like taking an airplane everywhere. You still need to know how to walk <laugh>. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Yes And yes how to ride a bike. And it's like, just because we invented airplanes and, and air travel doesn't mean we throw out everything else. But really with our mainstream medical culture, that's what has happened. I mean, like you said on your intake at the nursing home, they don't even ask about diet when that is the foundation of health. So great. We talked about those medications. Now we've touched on muscle mass and bone mass. Let's talk a little bit about why those are so important. 'cause I know some people might have heard and gotten the memo about how important muscle mass maintenance and bone mass maintenance are for longevity and vitality span. But some people are not aware. So what would you tell them? The biggest,

    Speaker 3 (26:36):

    Or I would say used to be the biggest reason that somebody would go into a nursing home was a fall or a break. And that is directly correlated with muscle mass. It's directly correlated with bones. And we don't think about those kinds of things. And we think that sometimes when, oh, I'm in my fifties, I'm in my sixties, I'm in retirement and all I wanna do is just sit around, I'm going to challenge you. It's like, I don't think that's what we want. I think we wanna live, I think we wanna be active and to be active, we need our bones healthy, we need them strong. And to be active, we need muscle. We need muscle to be able to get out of a chair every day. We need muscles to pick up our dogs and our grandkids. We need muscle to be able to take the groceries inside.

    Speaker 3 (27:24):

    And hey, if we're gonna get on that plane, I want to be able to go over that overhead bin and put my luggage there. Everything that we do, everything that we do on a daily basis requires us to have a strong skeletal system and a strong muscular system. And if we let that go, everything else goes downhill. Everything does. We no longer can lift, we no longer can get out of a chair. We no longer can maybe lift our head up because we have osteoporosis and we have all these bone fractures in our cervical area. I don't think anybody wants that. That's not living. And if we can do the best by fueling our body, by strengthening our bones and strengthening our muscles, honestly that's the fountain of youth. Keeping your muscle mass. Keeping your bone mass is the fountain of youth. And I think that is, at least for me, that's the ticket that is not a pill, not the fountain of youth per se. Going and drinking the water, that's something that I can do on a daily basis is to help my bone strength and my muscle mass so that in the future I'm able to thrive. And I think most people want that. They just don't realize it unfortunately until it's too late. When we're in our forties, in our fifties, in our sixties, whatever age you are right now, it's not too late. And now is the time to start training for your future self.

    Speaker 1 (28:50):

    Yeah. And I think it's super important to realize that these changes and the downgrade of our musculoskeletal system happens so slowly and gradually over time that it's almost imperceptible. And you can write off these changes as being normal and think that you are not on that downward slope again, you're not the one who's gonna get the side effects from the medication. You are not the one that Amy and I are talking about. But this was a real reality check for me, <laugh>, when I heard of the squat test and how you basically stand straight up and then you want to lower yourself into a cross-legged position without using your arms, y'all arms. And then from the squat leg position, you want to get back up off the floor into a standing position without using your arms. If you can't do that, descent has already begun. And that was a real wake up call when I heard somebody describe that. And every woman in the room kind of looked at her neighbor and said, I can't do that. You know, look at kids, they do it effortlessly. So what are some other signs that you would tell people to look for to know that they need to pay attention and they need to start paying attention now?

    Speaker 3 (30:11):

    Energy levels. How are you sleeping if you're not sleeping well, if your energies are constantly crashing and you need coffee to get you through the day. If you're constantly grabbing for the sugar because you're hungry or you just want to have that sugar craving. And what does that do? That shows that you're not fueling your body enough. That shows that you might have some hormonal imbalances that you need to get checked out. And the other thing is, you know, do you feel weak? Is it hard for you to park way out of the grocery store and walk in? Do you find the closest parking space? Or are you someone who just can't carry anything and you're like, oh, you know, it's just 'cause I'm tired and looking for those little things that are adding up now or that are kind of giving you a wake up call that, hey, I need to really listen to my body and start taking care of it and start training to get better. Yeah,

    Speaker 1 (31:09):

    Those are super important things to look at. And I know we're busy, we lead busy lives, we're doing a million things and we're like, oh, I just feel a little tired. And it happens so gradually that we don't even realize it. And so I say pay attention sooner rather than later. And do you wanna talk a little bit about protein intake and weight lifting and maintenance of muscle mass?

    Speaker 3 (31:35):

    Yeah, so the one thing that we are great at is not getting enough protein. We really, especially females, we are, we do not get enough protein. And as we age, we actually need more protein. And sometimes that's difficult. There are easier ways to find protein. You can go to the grocery store and there's, there can be like a chicken breast or get some Turkey bone broth. It's a great way to get protein. You don't have to rely on the shakes. And sometimes those bars are just like a candy bar. They're not, they're not good for you. You need protein and you need protein in order to keep your muscle and in order to build your muscle. And I think a lot of times I will get, especially some older women will be like, Ugh, but I don't wanna bulk up. I don't wanna look big.

    Speaker 3 (32:24):

    And I'm going to tell you you're not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen unless you have some pharmaceutical, pharmaceutical help that then, then possibly you might get bulky. But for most of us, that is not possible with lifting three days a week with increasing how much weight. And I'm not talking about your three to five pounds. That might be somewhere that you start out with three to five pound dumbbells. But if you start lifting 15, 20, 25 pound dumbbells, you will not get bulky. What will happen, especially if you're fueling your body, is that you will actually change your body shape to the way that you want it to be. It will be shapely, it will be, I hate saying thinner, but it's going to be more compact. So you're gonna lose inches because we are going to increase your muscle. And then if you're fueling yourself properly, you'll start burning fat. And that's, I think what most women want is that they have this idea of what they wanna look like and they think they have to do it by starving when it actually is the exact opposite. That if you start fueling your body with carbohydrates, with fat, with protein, and you do a simple workout routine for 30 minutes, not hours, that is gonna get you well on the path that you wanna go. Yes.

    Speaker 1 (33:49):

    So important. Eat more, exercise more, way less, feel better, be healthier. Do you wanna give any guidelines? What guidelines do you like to offer for people for their protein intake in terms of numbers or you know, palm of the hand size, how many times a day? What do you usually recommend? So

    Speaker 3 (34:09):

    Usually, you know, palm size is usually a serving size, so anywhere between 20 to 30 grams of protein per meal. So right around anywhere between 80 to 100 grams per day. And it just depends on who I'm coaching. And some of my clients, some of my clients take way more than that. But it also depends on their activity level. But that's just a good starting point. You'll see people that say, oh, you only need 30, 40 grams per day. Honestly 80 80 to 100 is where we need to be A midlife.

    Speaker 1 (34:44):

    Yes. I second that. Amen. <laugh>. And then, you know, at the beginning of the year, people going back to the gym, it can be intimidating to go to some gyms and you see all these big muscle guys working out and it smells like a man's locker room <laugh>. So what you suggest for a woman who really has no experience with weights, it's foreign to her, that whole gym scene is foreign. Maybe she hasn't stepped foot in a gym since grade school. What do you suggest? How does she get started? If

    Speaker 3 (35:18):

    The gym scene isn't for you, so let's invest in some bands. Let's invest in some dumbbells. You can do a program at home. I work out for the most part at home. My program has daily workouts that we use. I do it at home. I go to the gym once a week when I teach and I'm in and I'm out because I don't like the gym atmosphere anymore. It's changed since covid. And if you're like, okay, I just, I can't get the energy just to go to the gym, I don't wanna deal with traffic, I don't wanna deal with people, but can you get the energy to go stand up and go to maybe a different room and 30 minutes is all you have to do? And I, and someone says, but I haven't worked out, just try five minutes tomorrow, do six minutes the next day, seven minutes.

    Speaker 3 (36:08):

    You will be surprised how quickly you will get in shape. And what I always get is like, but I'm not in shape enough to work out. You gotta start somewhere. You have to start somewhere and be okay. Being a beginner, we are so worried about being perfectionists all the time. We gotta do this perfectly. We gotta do this perfectly. How about progress? How about a little bit better every single day? And I know it's the new year, I know when someone starts a program, it's like, I'm going to clean out my closet, I'm gonna clean out my pantries, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna get up at 4:30 AM. Do what you know you can do and then build upon that. Don't think you have to go all in 120%. Do what you can do today and build upon it tomorrow. And that will set you up for success.

    Speaker 1 (36:58):

    I noticed something in the materials you submitted before we did the interview. I'm wondering if you can explain what this means. I like what it says, but I'm not sure entirely what it means. Optimize the starting line instead of worrying about the finish line. What does that mean?

    Speaker 3 (37:13):

    That is one of my favorite books, James. Clear Atomic Habits. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And he kind of says, all right, we look at the finish line, maybe it's the spring and you're going on vacation to a cruise and you're like, oh, I wanna buy this outfit and this outfit and this outfit and I need to be this weight by this time so I can wear this bathing suit or get back into this close. So we're looking at the finish line, we're not looking at what we need to do to get there. So if we can optimize the starting line, maybe it's getting our new pair of shoes and, 'cause we have, we, we don't have a decent pair of walking shoes. Maybe it's getting dumbbells so that we have something to lift. Maybe it's getting some resistance bands, it's getting everything you need to get to the finish line, but you gotta have a starting point first.

    Speaker 1 (38:09):

    I like that. Focus on what you can do now instead of, oh, I gotta get to this, this point. Because sometimes it can feel like climbing Mount Everest and, but I can go get some dumbbells. I can pull my sneakers out of the back of the closet. I can put out my workout clothes before I go to bed and set my alarm, you know, 10 minutes earlier so I can go in the living room and I don't know, I like sweating to the oldies, something like that. Yeah, yeah. Great. I love that. And you also have this other information that I like and I'm wondering if you can explain. So I was put here on this earth on purpose for a purpose. I love that. What does that mean to

    Speaker 3 (38:53):

    You? Yeah, we struggle sometimes. I think all of us struggle. We struggle. What's our calling? What do we need to do? Whether it's our job, whether it's our family, whether it's our career and we question everything. And that grounds me. I was put here on purpose for a purpose. And when sometimes I feel like maybe I'm not doing what I should be doing, maybe I'm not helping enough people. And I, one of my clients who's lost 130 pounds posted something yesterday and I was almost in tears. And those things ground me. It's like, you know what? That's my purpose. That's my calling. So I was put here on purpose for a purpose. And I think we all know our calling, we all know our purpose. Sometimes we don't think it's big enough or it's, we think it's just too small. But realize every single thing that you do that is your calling, that is your purpose, is huge and makes an impact.

    Speaker 1 (39:43):

    It's so true, Amy, and I think that sometimes our purpose is so integral to who we are, that we almost do it effortlessly and then we think it, our purpose has to be hard. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. It has to be some hard journey or degree or something that we accomplish or somebody gives to us. But it's really a part of who we are. And really, I think one of the aspects of health that I love to help women see is their uniqueness. And so understanding their personality from all its aspects, whether it's learning about the Myers-Briggs and human design and their astrology and so on and so on. And really what makes them uniquely them so that they can be on purpose. And sometimes I find that like Bill, not Bill Gates <laugh>, not Bill Gates, the Apple guy, <laugh>, I see Jobs <laugh>, he says, you know, the dots can only be connected going backwards.

    Speaker 1 (40:47):

    And I recently had an experience, you know, anyone who knows me knows I've been through many transformations in my life professionally and personally. And every time I'm kind of like, okay, what's happening now with this transition? I thought I was on purpose. And I had an experience just last week where I woke up to this even larger purpose <laugh>. And it's like I had to wait 59 years to get that. I couldn't know it at nine, I couldn't know it at 1929. Right. So it's ever unfolding. And if you just keep following the dots or the breadcrumbs as they're laid out. And I do believe that if you're listening to this podcast, this is one of your breadcrumbs. You're here for a reason. You're hearing this for a reason. You're being called to pay attention to your longevity, your vitality. You're being called to pay attention to the fact that we're talking about staying out of a nursing home. <Laugh> or your attention is being awakened because this is a part of you fulfilling your purpose. 'cause You're not gonna fulfill your purpose if you're not healthy. Oh, right.

    Speaker 3 (41:56):

    So true. Oh yeah. Abs, I, I may have to use that. I love that. That is so true. So true.

    Speaker 1 (42:02):

    Yeah. And I love this other thing you said today I do what others won't. So tomorrow I can do what others can't. Talk a little bit about that.

    Speaker 3 (42:12):

    Well, I mean, let's look at my nursing homes. Yeah. We don't think about what can happen to us in the future, we don't think about what we should be doing now. We think when we get that diagnosis or something happens is I wish I could have, although I would've should've. Things come to mind. I'm choosing not to have those. So today I do what others won't. So tomorrow I will do what others can't. I suck it up. I sometimes say embrace the suck, suck it up, and I do my lifting workout on a day. I don't feel like it. I get my nutrition on a day where it's rough. I'm busy and there's meetings after meetings or a podcast or client calls. I make sure that I take care of myself first because I can't give to others if I am not taking care of myself.

    Speaker 3 (43:04):

    And I think as women, we tend to do the opposite. We give, give, give, give. And we think that's what we should be doing and not taking care of ourselves. I take care of myself first so that I can take care of everybody else so that I'm able to coach, be able to be a great, a pharmacist, a fitness instructor, and then in 20, 30 years when there's others my age who maybe can't stand, maybe are in a nursing home, planning on being in Costa Rica on a beach somewhere. So <laugh>, I mean, I'm planning on being 80, 90 years old and power walking and enjoying life and not being in a chair watching it go by.

    Speaker 1 (43:50):

    Yeah. So I think that's a great call to everybody to pay attention. I think it's a great place to end. You have an amazing five day blueprint, five day fat loss blueprint. We're gonna have a link in the show notes. Do you wanna tell them a little bit about what they're gonna find there and also all the places they can then connect with you online? Sure.

    Speaker 3 (44:09):

    The best places I'll give you two. One is my website, amy k wilson.com. And then I'm known as the nutrition coach pharmacist on Instagram. So on my website, amy k wilson.com or Instagram, the nutrition coach pharmacist. So what I am giving you is a five day blueprint that has lots of recipes and also has two more recipes on there. One is my favorite chili recipe. So if you like chili and if you like Wendy's chili, the rumor is that this recipe was taken by Dave Thomas who made it the Wendy's chili recipe. However, this one is easy, this one is healthy and it can be made in the crockpot, Instapot, or stove. And I love things that are easy and nutritious at the same time. I will say on the five day blueprint, just look at it. Just think about maybe taking one day and multiplying those meals by two. So that way you have two days and then there's like 15 different recipes, I think. So that makes it how many days we multiply that too. That's a whole month worth of stuff. So I hope that helps people, maybe get you on the road, get you started. Because sometimes when you listen to these things you're like, well, how do I start? What are you talking about? How do I, what do I do? This will give you some ideas on how to get started.

    Speaker 1 (45:26):

    Yeah, I love that. And thank you for that. And I would just add, I love making multiple servings of one recipe and then freezing in single serve containers. So when you are busy, you can just grab it and defrost it and you've got a healthy meal and you don't have to go without. So amazing. And I wanna thank you so much for coming on the show, Amy. I have to say, you know, of all my colleagues in medicine, some of the most beleaguered colleagues are the ones who do work in nursing homes because it's kind of a rock and a hard place position there. It's too late for them to really transform anyone and bring them back to the health that they could have had. And so they kind of become despondent and hopeless, those colleagues. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. But you have taken that pain and you are out doing something about it, helping people to stay out of your nursing home. So I say, yay, you and thank you <laugh>, thanks so much for joining me today.

    Speaker 3 (46:25):

    This was awesome. Thank you so much.

    Speaker 1 (46:27):

    And thank you all for joining me for another episode of The Hormone Prescription. I know you're inspired, I know you're gonna go download that blueprint. I know you're gonna make that chili and I wanna know how good it is. I love a good bowl of chili, so tell me about it on social media. Look forward to hearing about your results and look forward to hearing about all the insights that you had and how inspired you are for an amazing 2024 and beyond. Until next week when we'll have another episode, I'll see you then. Peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

    Speaker 2 (47:04):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

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  • Welcome to another episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, where we explore the world of hormonal health and natural healing for midlife women. Today's guest is the incredibly knowledgeable Dr. Bradley Nelson, creator of The Emotion Code and The Body Code. He's here to teach us how to use these powerful healing systems to clear energy blocks affecting our hormones and embrace the healing process. Dr. Nelson is an expert in identifying and releasing energy blockages that can lead to hormonal imbalances and various chronic conditions. Throughout our conversation, he explains how our bodies are intricately connected to our emotions and how we can unlock our body's ability to heal by addressing these energy disturbances. In this enlightening episode, you can expect to hear:- The foundational principles behind The Emotion Code and The Body Code- The link between emotions and hormones in your body- How energy blockages affect your hormonal health- Real-life stories of women who experienced transformative healing through Dr. Nelson's techniques- Practical tools and advice for clearing and rebalancing your energy at home If you're a midlife woman dealing with hormonal imbalances or seeking to explore natural methods of healing, this episode is a must-listen. Dr. Nelson's expertise and personal insights will inspire you to take charge of your healing journey and tap into your body's innate wisdom. Thank you for joining us today at The Hormone Prescription Podcast, and we'll see you in the next episode!

    Speaker 1 (00:00):

    Albert Einstein said, everything is energy and that is all there is to it. Match the frequency of the reality you want, and you cannot help but get that reality. It can be no other way. This is not philosophy. This is physics. Stay tuned to find out how energy applies to your health and is an essential part of healing your emotions and your physical health and your hormones.

    Speaker 2 (00:27):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Speaker 1 (01:20):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription. I'm Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive in to talking with Dr. Bradley Nelson about the emotion code. I am so very honored to have Dr. Nelson on this show. I have been a fan of his for years. Read his book several years ago and know his work is profound and deep and really helps people achieve not only the emotional balance, but the hormonal balance and the physical vitality that they're seeking. It really is the missing link when it comes to health. And we're gonna talk about why in this episode, how these structures that monitor and maintain your hormones, your nervous system, your emotions, why they're so intertwined. And you may have noticed this in ways that might not be obvious to you, but we're gonna talk about some of them and we're gonna talk about why they're so intertwined.

    Speaker 1 (02:22):

    So if you're trying to aim for vitality, physical vitality and longevity, you're trying to aim for hormonal prosperity and longevity, and you want emotional balance, then this is the episode for you. 'cause Dr. Bradley Nelson has a very unique approach that was ahead of its time when it was introduced. We're gonna talk about this quote from Albert Einstein about why everything is energy. What does that mean for your health? Because I know you're not hearing that at your HMO doctor's office. You don't go for your checkup and they say, did you know that you are energy? But you need to know this. 'cause If you're not addressing it, you're not gonna be able to experience the health that's possible for you. We're gonna talk about why energy medicine is the last great frontier in medicine. And another quote from Nicola Tesla. That's amazing. So I'm gonna tell you a little bit about Dr. Bradley and then we will get started.

    Speaker 1 (03:17):

    He has a very extensive biography, but every bit is worth reading and talking about. So I'm gonna get into it then we'll have him on the show. So he is a veteran holistic physician, Dr. Chiropractic, Dr. Bradley Nelson. He's one of the world's foremost experts on natural methods of achieving wellness. An international trainer and speaker and author of the bestselling book, the Emotion Code. He has a new book, the Body Code, unlocking the Body's Ability to Heal Itself. You definitely wanna check that up. He was raised in Montana and grew up on the back of a horse. And as a child, he suffered two life-threatening illnesses, both of which were healed, not by traditional western medicine, no surprise there, but by separate alternative methods that tap the power of energy. And these experiences were to shape his life going forward In college, he studied computer programming and decided to pursue business as a career.

    Speaker 1 (04:11):

    But after entering the MBA program at Brigham Young, he had an epiphany. He had asked God for guidance about his future, and one night he woke up and his mind was overflowing with thoughts of service to mankind and to humanity. Maybe you have that too, and if you do, you need to pay attention to it. And the feelings were absolutely overwhelming. His head was filled with thoughts of healing and helping the world. A voice that was crystal clear spoke to him saying, this is a sacred calling. So he entered, dropped outta MBA, entered life Chiropractic College West in California, and graduated with honors. He began practicing as a holistic chiropractic physician and saw a wide variety of patients, many of whom had seemingly incurable conditions that he remembered learning about the computer that is the brain, the supercomputer, and how amazing it would be to access the data that's stored there, to unlock keys to help these people who had seemingly incurable conditions to heal.

    Speaker 1 (05:10):

    And he started doing extensive study and disciplines such as ancient medical practices, psychology and quantum physics, as well as the guidance of his own spiritual practice. And he discovered that packets of unprocessed emotion were the basis of most conditions. Have you ever felt like, well, that feeling is in me and I always feel that same feeling and it never seems to change or go away regardless of circumstances. If you haven't realized that most people do feel that they regurgitate the same feelings over and over, they don't realize it. So look back and think the body is essentially energy and emotion is energy as well. When the energy of a negative emotion is trapped in the body in a packet, it impacts the body's self-healing system. And these trapped emotions are almost like tumors and can obstruct healing at their worst. They actually create disease and physical problems.

    Speaker 1 (06:02):

    So he designed a process using this knowledge and has helped thousands of people, he is trained thousands in how to do these processes as well, to release their trapped emotions, to harness the intrinsic genius of his patient's subconscious minds, to identify the trapped emotion in the subconscious and use the laws of energy and electromagnetic fields and employ the governing meridian to release them. If you're not sure what that is, don't worry. Stay tuned. We're gonna talk about it. And it's pretty sophisticated and subtle knowledge, but he's made it so simple that even a child can do it. And the process is called the emotion code. You remove emotional energies that have clustered in the body around the heart, interfering with one's ability to find love, vitality, and healing success. And we're gonna dive into what the heart wall is, where these packets are, how do you know if you have them, what do you do about it? And we're just gonna go all over the place with Dr. Brad because he is a wealth of knowledge. He's also gonna touch on his new book, the Body Code, and all the training that he has. He has a free gift for you that's gonna help elucidate some of this. So without further ado, please help me welcome Dr. Bradley Nelson to the show.

    Speaker 3 (07:18):

    Thank you for having me on Kier, and I really appreciate it. It's great to be here.

    Speaker 1 (07:22):

    I came across your work a few years ago and the book The Emotion Code, and it really has transformed my way of thinking about health and emotions and so many things. I think it's revolutionary and really can help so many women of every age, but particularly at midlife and beyond. That's really my focus. And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about, 'cause this concept of emotions being trapped, emotions are kind of a mystery to a lot of women. <Laugh>. They don't realize that their hormones and nervous system are intricately involved with their emotional state and regulation, or lack thereof. So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about your journey to discovering what you discovered that you present in the emotion code. And there's so many things I wanna ask you, and that's a jam packed question, but start wherever you would like.

    Speaker 3 (08:22):

    Okay, absolutely. Well, I practiced as a holistic physician for about 18 years, and I was really obsessed with getting to the underlying causes of my patient's problems. And I was seeing all kinds of patients of all ages and with all kinds of physical and mental and emotional issues. And I was studying things, ancient methods of healing and modern methods. And I was doing everything I could to learn everything I could about how to fix my patients. And, I was also prayerful. Before I'd work on a patient, I would, I would actually pray silently. You know, it was just a momentary pause. Really. Nobody ever knew that I was asking for help from up above for people. That's, but that was really interesting because over those 18 years, there were a number of occasions where information would suddenly just flood into me about what to do and how to help someone.

    Speaker 3 (09:14):

    And what I learned was that all of my patients, no matter how young or old they were, no matter what they were suffering from, no matter what their symptoms were, they all had one thing in common. And that was, they were all suffering from the effects of their emotional baggage. And let me explain how that works. 'cause It, it's, it's kind of a strange thing. We're not used to thinking about emotional baggage. I mean, we use that phrase, right, Kieran, we, we might say, well, you know, a gal, she's got a lot of emotional baggage and that guy's got a lot of emotional baggage. Well, we all have emotional baggage. But what we're now finally beginning to understand in the 21st century is what our emotional baggage is, number one. And number two, what that emotional baggage is actually doing to us. So let me explain.

    Speaker 3 (10:03):

    First of all, you have to understand that these bodies of ours, even though they seem solid and three dimensional, the reality of it is if you talk to a physicist, especially someone who is working with quantum physics, they will tell you, well, the body really is an energy field. I mean, if you, if you zoom in, for example, on your hand and you zoom in, magnify your hand with a big microscope, and you go past the level of the cells and pass the organelles and pass the molecules until you're eventually looking at a single individual atom, the molecules are made of atoms. We're made of atoms, right? But if you were to look at that atom and look inside that atom, you'd see there's really nothing there. It's just empty space. It's just energy. And you'd see that the next atom is a long distance away.

    Speaker 3 (10:49):

    And so really, these bodies of ours are made of atoms which are made really of nothing but pure energy. It's hard for us to wrap our minds around that, but that is the truth of our existence. And in fact, as strange as it is, it gets even stranger, some quantum physicists recently, I think, to make a point, to try to help the rest of us understand the true nature of our reality. They said that if you could remove all the empty space from everyone's body on earth, you could fit all 7.8 billion people in the world into a box the size of a sugar cube. Right? It's kind of mind blowing. But that's really the reality of who we are. And so, even though our bodies seem solid, they really are energy fields. Our body, you know, your body is, is a very complex energy field.

    Speaker 3 (11:33):

    But when you're feeling an emotion, what's going on is that every emotion has its own specific frequency and it's own vibration. And so if you're feeling an emotion of anger, that's a different frequency than sadness and so on. And if you're feeling that emotion and that emotion is very powerful, that energy, that vibration may become trapped in the body. There are two situations where this typically occurs. If the emotion's very powerful or if we make it very powerful, we choose to become really upset, which of course we've all done. Or if an emotion coming up for you and you decide you're gonna not allow that, and you just stuff that emotion and you bury it so that you can move on with your life, then that's unexpressed. And so we end up with these emotional energies trapped in our bodies. The first time that I saw this actually was a woman that thought she was having a heart attack, and she I'd seen her before, but it had been a few months.

    Speaker 3 (12:27):

    And one day she comes in, she's got numbness on the left side of her face, her left arm's totally numb. She's got crushing chest pain, difficulty breathing. I told my staff, look, we might need an ambulance. We were right next to a medical center, so I knew we could get one really quickly. So I brought her into a room and I started doing some testing. Now with the emotion code, what we do is we ask questions and we get answers from the body by using muscle testing. And so, so if you can imagine, I have her holding her arm out parallel to the floor, and I'm asking questions. And her subconscious mind is responding with strength for yes. Or weak for No, that makes sense.

    Speaker 1 (13:06):

    Yes. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. Okay, but applied kinesiology style.

    Speaker 3 (13:10):

    Yeah, yeah. Kinesthetic, yeah. Whatever you wanna call it. Anyway, so I'm asking questions, well, do you have a trapped emotion that's contributing to your symptoms? And the answer was yes. And then we have a chart of emotions in the emotion code that looks like this. And there are, that's legible or visible. There's 60 emotions on here. Yes. And,

    Speaker 1 (13:28):

    And actually Dr. Brad has a link we'll give you at the end of the show where you can go and view this and actually download it. So go ahead, <laugh>.

    Speaker 3 (13:36):

    Yeah. So anyway, so I asked, do you have a trapped emotion that's contributing to these symptoms? And the answer was, yes, very strong. And so I found very quickly the answer was the emotion was grief, and then we needed to know a little more. And so I tested a little more and found out that this had actually occurred. This emotional energy became trapped in her body three years before. And all of a sudden she breaks down crying. And she said, I can't believe that's affecting me. She said, I thought I dealt with all that. And I said, well, what happened to you? She said that three years before her husband had an affair and or was having an affair. And she found out about it and then confronted him with the evidence and the marriage blew up. And she was so betrayed. She was really in love with him, thought she was gonna be with him forever, right?

    Speaker 3 (14:22):

    And that was the end of that. And so they ended up getting a divorce, and then she spent a year in therapy dealing with it, and had even recently gotten remarried. So as far as she was concerned, that was just her ex and he betrayed her. And that was, she was trying to put it behind her. But as far as her body was concerned, that betrayal, that grief that was so powerful three years before was still there, still right there. And in fact, when I released that energy, and it just takes a few seconds, we just swipe down the middle of the back with a magnet or your hand, the feeling came back into her face and into her arm within about three seconds. And all of a sudden, the crushing chest pain, difficulty breathing, it was all just gone. And she left the office about 10 minutes later after joking with me and my staff.

    Speaker 3 (15:09):

    And then I remember sitting at my desk after she left, thinking, what in the world? What did I just witness? How is that possible? Now you think about your own life, right? You think about the things that you have been through, because we have all been through things. We've all been through things we'd rather not have gone through. You know, we've been through deaths in the family, we've been through breakups. A lot of us have been through divorces. We've had problems with our kids and injuries and accidents and all kinds of things. And so the emotions that we experience, sometimes those can stay with us. And what I found in practice that's just so unbelievable is that our emotional baggage is 90% of the time the reason for physical pain. It's the reason why people gain weight and can't lose it. It's one of the reasons, it's a reason behind every disease process that we've seen now in 35 years.

    Speaker 3 (16:04):

    Think about that. So if you've been diagnosed with a disease, I can guarantee you there is an emotional component to that disease process, and you can do everything else, right? But if you miss that component, then you might not get over the disease, because that's a piece of that puzzle. And of course, western medicine is still a number of years away from recognizing this. But, this is the reality. And so getting rid of that emotional baggage is one of the most amazing, one of the best things you can actually do for yourself, for your physical health, for your mental health and your emotional health.

    Speaker 1 (16:42):

    Yes. It's astounding to me. And so when you say the energy, the emotional baggage, it's almost like the emotions are energy in motion, and these, if these emotions aren't allowed to go through the cycle, that they go through and dissipate and be metabolized, that they stay there, almost like I envision these little packets, kind of quantum packets of energy that are sealed off from the rest of the system. Is that how you would explain it?

    Speaker 3 (17:13):

    Yeah, that's actually a really great way to explain it. I mean, there's an emotional process. I call it the emotional loop that we go through. When an emotion starts to be felt, if you think about what happens, first of all, some kind of stimulus occurs. Someone says something to you, or you see something, or you think something or hear something, an emotion starts to automatically come up for you. And most of the time we allow that emotion to come up and we, you know, maybe think the thoughts that go along with that emotion or feel the physical sensations with that. And then most of the time we allow that energy to kind of dissipate and go away. And so that emotional loop opens and we feel the emotion and we allow it to dissipate. And the loop closes on that experience, and that experience is over and ready for the next one.

    Speaker 3 (17:58):

    And we do this all the time, every day, right? But again, if that emotion is coming up and we decide, no, I'm not gonna go there, that's a bad emotion. I don't have time, whatever. And we stuff that emotion, then that energy that's been trying to express is suspended in the body in some way. And we don't really understand how this works. But the other, the other circumstances, if an emotion comes up and it's just so intense or so overpowering, you know, your parents die unexpectedly or suddenly, your husband asks you for a divorce or a child is hurt in a terrible accident or, you know, whatever. Sometimes the emotion is just so powerful, we can't really deal with it. And that energy becomes trapped in the body in that way too. Or sometimes an emotion comes up and we decide that we're going to empower that emotion and really go over the top by getting really upset.

    Speaker 3 (18:49):

    We've all done that too. And that can also amplify that energy. So that normal process, almost like breathing in the emotional feeling and then breathing it out, that gets stuck. And so the loop then stays open. And so we have an open loop for that emotional experience. And so the emotion code is just a way to find these open loops and close them. And, but it's, it's unbelievable. It's really unbelievable how powerful this is. And that's what's driving the success of this all over the world. You know, for example they just sent me this book in Vietnamese. I just got nice, this is, you know, this is Mandarin. I've got on the wall behind me. I've got all kinds of books from all over the world. We were just in Japan. This is a book in Japanese, you know, but it's going all over the world. And the reason why is because it's a very, very simple, easy method that anyone can use. So we certify people in this method. We've got people all over the world. We've certified over 12,000 people in the emotion code in 80 countries or so. But you can actually do this yourself as well. And so you can begin to heal your own emotional baggage. And, you know, if you think that you don't have emotional baggage, then I regret to inform you <laugh> that you do,

    Speaker 1 (20:02):

    Right? That would be a question I would ask you, because some people listening are gonna think, I don't have that. And you know, in my experience, <laugh>, the more education and training I've had in this field, and the more I've gotten my own energetic training and my own energetic path of healing, the more I realize that we really are emotion-phobic as a society. And I would say emotionally constipated. We don't know what to do with our emotions. We suppress them, we deny them, we <laugh>, we do anything but honor them and feel them. So the average person listening right now is thinking, oh, that's not me. I don't have that. So what would you say to her?

    Speaker 3 (20:45):

    Well, you know, I have met people in my life that have had a lot less trapped emotions. And those are the kind of people that are really unflappable, that are able to kind of maintain an even keel no matter what's going on in their lives. Even those people, and they're kind of rare, really especially in this culture in the US I think they're, they're prone to, to develop less trapped emotions. But, you know, even those people have emotional baggage. The average adult in our experience has probably around 300 separate emotional energies that have become trapped in their bodies. And so it's a process of learning how to release these. And then you can have someone help you to get rid of your emotional baggage, or you can do it yourself. It's easy enough that kids are doing it. In fact, let me share a story with you.

    Speaker 3 (21:37):

    Sure. We were, we were at an event sometime back and a woman told us this story. She said that she started reading the emotion code book, and she had the book on audio and started listening to it and reading it. And her son started reading it and listening to it. And he started practicing with his friends, and she thought she thought it was cute. And a couple days go by, or sorry, a couple weeks go by, and one day the phone rings, she answers the phone, and it's a woman calling her who identifies herself as the mother of one of her son's friends. And she said, listen, my son has had a severe phobia of water all of his life, and you know, you can have a phobia to anything. And she said, she said, it's really been very disruptive to our life and to his life, and we've tried everything.

    Speaker 3 (22:18):

    We've taken him to everybody we could think of for years, and nothing's ever touched this. She said, right now I'm at the community pool. And she said, my son is out playing in the water, the other boys, for the first time in his life, she said, your son did this. How is this even possible? What in the world is he doing? Well, those two boys are only 11 years old. That's how easy this can be. And yet how incredibly life-changing it can be because you see, our behaviors are largely governed by the emotional baggage that we've picked up during our life. Who knows what happened to him. Maybe he was stuck in the womb a little too long, you know, or maybe he had an experience where he thought he was gonna drown when he was a baby. And so I don't know what the emotion was, but you can develop trapped emotions in the womb as a baby.

    Speaker 3 (23:04):

    It's even possible. In fact, this is something that's not unusual at all. It's even possible for us to inherit emotional energy at conception from mom or dad that they might have gotten a conception from their mom or dad. And these can go back for many generations. And so it's so interesting because, you know, the reason right now that you might be having trouble finding love or maybe the reason why you're having a hard time making money, it might be because, you know, maybe your great-great-great grandfather was thrown into a poor house. Or maybe, maybe your ninth grade grandmother was jilted at the altar, and that energy's been passing down your line and it's in you now. It's really wild, but it's easy to find even these kinds of things and release them. So yeah, this work is so fun, and it's changing lives all over the world.

    Speaker 1 (23:51):

    It is. It's fascinating. And you know, as you're talking, and I'm realizing some people are thinking, well, this is a little woo woo for me, Kieran, and I'm, what I'm gonna say is, woo woo is the new must do. Science is validating and has validated all of these things that Dr. Bradley's talking about. So if you're not, if you didn't get the memo, you need to get on board the train because this is what's keeping you from the physical health that you want, the life that you want. It's what's keeping you from everything that you want. I'm wondering if you can talk maybe a little bit about the scientific research that has confirmed many of the connections between emotions and health, if you wanna touch on that. Sure.

    Speaker 3 (24:35):

    Well, let's first of all talk about inherited trapped emotions. Since we were just talking about that. One of the very first studies that started to shed some light on this, and that blew a lot of people's minds, was a study that was done, I think it was about 15 years ago, where they were studying mice. And what they would do is they would, they would subject mice to an electrical shock. And at the, and which sounds terrible, but it, I don't think it was too bad. But at the same time that they were giving them this electrical shock, they would blow the smell, the scent of cherry blossom into their cages. And so after doing that, a few times, the mice became conditioned to the smell of cherry blossom. And so then all they had to do, of course, was just blow that smell into their cage, and they'd have a fear reaction, right?

    Speaker 3 (25:22):

    Well, they found that the offspring of these mice had that same kind of fear reaction. So even though mice, several generations down the line, had never smelled cherry blossoms in their entire lives, when they would give them that scent to smell, they'd have a fear reaction. And they were trying to figure out, well, how in the world is this happening? How are these mice teaching their offspring to be aware and to be scared of cherry blossom scent? So what they did is they took sperm from these mice that had been sensitized. They took that sperm across the campus, an impregnated female mice that had never been shocked, and that had never smelled cherry blossom. And they found that the offspring of those female mice were also sensitized. And so scientists are trying to figure this out still to this day. I mean, they're looking at the DNA into the microscope and trying to figure out how in the world this is happening?

    Speaker 3 (26:18):

    But we know how it's happening. It's because of these energies. It's a quantum phenomenon. You see, it's trapped emotional energy. And so there have been books written about, for example, the offspring of the, the grandchildren, for example, of Holocaust survivors. And they find that their DNA is a little different and that they're more susceptible to disease and so on. They're very different from the normal population. And the only possible explanation is what the grandparents went through in the Holocaust and how they survived that. So anyway, there are lots of studies that have been done, an amazing study that was done on childhood trauma that found that if you experienced trauma as a child, if you were bullied or abused in some way, then the odds of you suffering from some major disease years down the road is greatly enhanced. And so there's lots and lots of studies that have been done.

    Speaker 3 (27:10):

    We did our own study actually with post-traumatic stress and depression, and found that within about three weeks using the emotion code, the people that were in our study reported improvement in their symptoms of about 36 to 37% within about three weeks. So if you're dealing with depression or PTSD, what we're finding is that emotional baggage is the underlying cause of these things. Depression, anxiety, phobias, panic attacks, PTSD, eating disorders, self-sabotage of all kinds. And of course, if we bring that back around to hormones, you might think that, well, hormones are a completely separate thing. But lemme tell you, emotional baggage is massively important in the regulation of your hormones and the production of your hormones. When you have emotional baggage, what it can do is it can really dramatically interfere with the production and the normal flow of a whole hormonal system.

    Speaker 3 (28:13):

    One of the things that I used to do when I was in practice, and since then too, although I don't practice anymore, because we, we mainly just teach people around the world, but I've worked a lot with women who could not conceive. And of course, you think about how important hormones are to conception and carrying a child. Well, the last, the last three women that I worked with over the last few years all ended up having triplets <laugh>, which I wasn't sure. I, you know, I wasn't sure if I should apologize or what, but <laugh>, you know, <laugh>. But yeah. But if you think about it, if you think about this, the, the hormone system in, in the female body, if you think about reproduction, what I used to tell my female patients is that the male re reproductive system is kind of like a tractor and somebody's wired the, the throttle open, and it's, there's no one on it.

    Speaker 3 (29:04):

    It's just chugging its way, you know, along the female reproductive system on the other hand is like a Formula One race car, and it's got all these different moving parts and components. And if everything is working well, then it can go 200 miles an hour and you can conceive and you can have a child and so on. But, but if there's anything that's not quite right, then things aren't gonna work. And so I've seen cases where I'm convinced one single trapped emotion was enough to stop the whole process. In fact, it's so interesting. We had a young woman who came to us a number of years ago who was suffering from Vaginismus. She'd been married about six months, and she told us that she'd been sexually abused as a child, but she was suffering from Vaginismus. So she and her husband had not been able to consummate their marriage. They had not been able to have sex, because of course, vaginismus is where the, the vaginal opening just tightens down, nothing's getting in there. And so we worked on her, released some trapped emotions, and her mother called us a couple of days later. She said, listen, she said, I just want you to know whatever you did worked, because she said everything's working, said her husband's coming home from, you know, he's coming home and spending lunch at, at home. Now they're trying to catch up.

    Speaker 1 (30:17):

    Oh, that's great. Yes, most women probably aren't aware. And I do just wanna tie that in a little more to what Dr. Bradley's saying is that your emotions are regulated primarily in your midbrain and the amygdala and your nervous system and your hormones are also regulated from the same area. So these brain structures that regulate emotions, your nervous system and your hormones are very interrelated and tightly controlled in that area. And imbalance in one is going to affect the other, particularly when it comes to negative emotions. It will affect your cortisol primarily. And then, you know, I call cortisol queen cortisol, she will be served <laugh> by any means necessary, and she's gonna take down your female hormones, your estrogen, your progesterone, your male hormone, testosterone, and really dysregulate the whole system in order for survival, which depends on cortisol. So I just wanted to give you all a little bit of a concrete reference point as to how important this is.

    Speaker 1 (31:27):

    And, and again, to anyone who's saying, oh, this is woo woo, I love this quote you shared from Albert Einstein that I wanna share with everyone. Everything is energy, and that is all there is to it match the frequency of the reality you want. And you cannot help but get that reality. It can be no other way. This is not philosophy, this is physics. Albert Einstein said it a long time ago, <laugh>, and now we're just starting to, to really understand what many ancient cultures have known for eons that, like Dr. Mayman, Oz says, energy medicine is the last great frontier in medicine, right?

    Speaker 3 (32:10):

    Yes. In fact, Einstein himself said, the medicine of the future will be the medicine of frequencies because he understood what our bodies really are. And it's so fascinating. In fact, Nicola Tesla, again, you know, one of the most brilliant people that ever lived said, if you wanna understand the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration. And so it's such an exciting time, really, Kieran, because we're really just now beginning to understand and put into practical use these ideas. And it's what I've been spending my whole career on, trying to understand this and trying to figure out how our bodies actually work. And so that's that's why I wrote the emotion code book, was because I saw what was happening with my own patients and what a, what a dramatic difference this was making for people in terms of their ability to get over disease processes and to be able to feel more love and to be able to have a happier life and get rid of all of these mental and emotional, physical issues. It's really unbelievable. I mean, 80% of the physical and, and mental emotional issues that we have are really because of our emotional baggage, the things we've gone through, or mm-hmm. <Affirmative> in many cases, the things our grandparents went through, or great-great-grandparents or whatever. So, the beauty of this is that it's simple and anybody can use it, and it's something that, again, even kids you know, can use. And, and so fun stuff. And

    Speaker 1 (33:42):

    How would somebody go about starting to address this? They hear what you're saying, they get it, they probably even know they have some emotional baggage. They've got some health issues, they're convinced. And how do they go about starting to work with this?

    Speaker 3 (33:59):

    We have a free gift for Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, all of you. And that is, you can go to our [email protected]. And if you go to emotion code gift.com, I'll go there really quick. Emotion code GIF t.com. And what we have there is something that we call the emotion code starter kit. So what you get is you get the first two chapters of the Emotion code book, and this is all free. You get the chart, and you also get a video series, it's called Intro to Energy Healing. We created this so that people can kind of get their feet wet and it doesn't cost anything. You can read the first couple of chapters of the book and see if you wanna read the rest of it. Of course, the book's available on Amazon and Audible and everywhere books are sold, you know, Barnes and Noble and so on. This will kind of give you more information about how this really works, and you'll learn how you can start to release this emotional baggage that you have. We all have it.

    Speaker 1 (34:54):

    So I'm curious if you've looked at any plant medicine psychedelics. I think they just submitted approval to the FDA for MDMA, for the indication, PTSD assisted psychotherapy, and there's a lot of research on psilocybin, and there's a big upswing in the use of plant medicines to help people heal emotionally. And one thing that I've always thought since reading your book was, but what about that you actually need to, emotions are a certain type of intelligence, and they have messages that need to be felt and honored. They, they're kind of gifts that give us information. And if you're using other techniques to change the energy of them, have they served their purpose? And are you doing some type of bypass, is my question. So I guess it's a two part question. One, if you're using energy techniques to clear these, are you bypassing their original intent? And is that wholly sufficient to heal them? And then my other question would be around kind of comparing and contrasting the use of these technologies that you've developed with psychedelics. Two part question.

    Speaker 3 (36:07):

    Okay. Well, first of all, first of all, yeah, you're absolutely right. When we experience an emotion, that emotion is coming up as a response to some kind of stimuli. And the emotion that we're feeling is the result of not only what's going on in that moment, but what's gone on in the past. And also the energy whatever emotional energy is trapped in the body, because remember, every emotion has its own particular frequency and its own particular vibration. And so if you're feeling an emotion of anger, that's a specific frequency different from grief and so on. So when that emotion is coming up for you, that is partly because of other energies that are trapped in the body. And one of the things that we find is that when you remove these trapped emotions, what happens is you're not as likely to experience that emotion anymore, or that feeling.

    Speaker 3 (36:56):

    To give you an example, I remember I had a patient that came in one day, we were working with her and found that she had a trapped emotion of resentment, and we traced it back to when she was 18 years old. And she said, oh, yeah, I know exactly what that's about. And she said, when I was in high school, I always resented this cheerleader. And she said, it's been 20 years now or so since I got outta high school. But she said, I don't, and she said, I don't even remember why I resented her, but she said, even now if I think about that girl, I can feel the resentment kind of swell up inside of me. And she said, I've always resented her, and I, I I still do. And so we released the trapped emotion of resentment from her, and a couple days later she came back in and she said, you know, last night I was with a friend and that girl's name came up.

    Speaker 3 (37:41):

    And for the first time, I didn't feel anything. I didn't feel that resentment. So if you think about it, what we're doing with the emotion code is we are, we're removing the emotional energies. And it's all really, in my opinion, it's really all about our learning. Because you see, most of us, most people believe that they're at the mercy of their emotions. That's, that there's really not anything they can do. The emotions that they experience are carrying them from one place to another. And, and they're, they're kind of a victim of that. But I think that what we are, what we're part of what we're here to learn is that we have control and we can choose our emotions for the most part, most of the time we can choose higher emotions. We can choose curiosity instead of anger. We can choose, you know, like for example, my wife and I have raised seven kids, and we would, that's one thing we would do when a child would do some stupid thing.

    Speaker 3 (38:40):

    We would look at each other and say, well, okay, I'm curious, how long do you think this child is gonna keep doing this kind of thing? Well, I don't know, honey, I'm curious too. What do you think? So we can choose higher emotions, and I think that that's a big reason why we're here, is to, to learn ultimately, really to choose unconditional love and total acceptance for people instead of these lower energies, these lower vibrations. So that's part of it. I think that as far as, so in other words, it's all for our learning. I think when we find emotional energy that's become trapped in the body, that's essentially like an open loop from abuse or divorce or whatever it might be. Ultimately, what does it do? Well, it's a burden that we have that we're carrying that's interfering with the pure expression, that is that energy field. That is what we are. So as we release those, that pure essence of who we are becomes more able to express. And we haven't actually even talked about the heart wall, but that's a whole nother thing.

    Speaker 1 (39:45):

    Let's talk about that

    Speaker 3 (39:46):

    <Laugh>. Okay.

    Speaker 1 (39:47):

    Do we have, can we talk about it in like eight minutes?

    Speaker 3 (39:51):

    I think we can, yeah. So yeah,

    Speaker 1 (39:53):

    That would be great.

    Speaker 3 (39:53):

    Okay. So when doctors first started doing heart transplants, it didn't take long before they noticed. People would come back in and they would report strange things like their taste in music or food or sports had totally changed, or they would've memories of being in places that they never in their life had ever visited. And there are books written about this. And in every case where these families were connected with the donor, or sorry, with the when these transplant recipients were connected with the, the families or the relatives of the heart donor, they would find out that, well, yes, our son's a baseball player, and now you'll love baseball. Maybe that's why, or, yeah, our daughter visited Rome every year. It was her favorite city in the world. Now you have memories of being in Rome, but you say you've never ever visited Rome.

    Speaker 3 (40:31):

    So the heart has something called cellular memory. The heart is the second brain we believe now of the ancients . The heart was the seed of the soul and the source of love and creativity and romance. And we've always kind of just thought that those ideas were just poetic license. But now we're beginning to realize that there's actually truth there. And in fact, they now know that there is something called the little brain in the heart that's, there's gray matter and white matter there. And the messages that are going between the brain and the heart are predominantly from the heart to the brain. And so we think now that the brain in your head is obeying the messages that are being sent by the brain in your heart, well, here's what happens when you feel like your heart is going to break. We've all felt that at one point or another, when that's going on and you're feeling that pressure on your chest, you're really deeply suffering.

    Speaker 3 (41:18):

    Someone's really hurting you, you're deep in grief or whatever it is, your heart's under assault at that point. And so the subconscious mind will gather emotional energies around the heart to protect the heart and those energies form into something that we call a heart wall. And a heart wall is an energy field that is surrounding the heart. And I never in my wildest dreams would've ever imagined this, but this is a real thing. And 93% of people have put up this wall. Now, when you have a heart wall, what happens is it makes it much more difficult for you to truly connect on a heart to heart level with other people. It makes it more difficult for you to find love, to stay in love. It makes it more difficult for you to manifest that perfect blueprint for your life that I believe lies within that heart of yours.

    Speaker 3 (42:07):

    'Cause I think the heart is really the seed of the subconscious. And what we find is that when that wall is taken down, people fall in love who never thought they would, people have creative ideas that start to flow spontaneously to them. All kinds of amazing things happen. And that's, that really truly is one of the big driving forces behind the success of this book all over the world, is that when people get those emotional energies removed from around their heart, all of a sudden they may feel peace for the first time in their life. They may be able to feel, I mean, these are things from people, from people who have told us these things that mm-hmm, <affirmative> for the first time. Sometimes they're able to feel experience, they're able to experience things like joy or love. It's the most important part of the emotion code. And, and in fact, it is a major, major cause. I will believe the single biggest underlying cause of depression, the worst cases of depression that I've seen in my career. People who were, who had to decide every day if they were gonna take their life and or live one more day by removing that wall around their heart. I've seen those people turn around it literally in a matter of days, completely. Really.

    Speaker 1 (43:13):

    So how might someone suspect that they have a heart wall?

    Speaker 3 (43:17):

    Well, if you can think back to a time in your life when you felt like your heart was going to break, if you bend through some heartbreaking things, like I said, 93% of people in our experience have put up a wall like this. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. And I mean, I've seen people who were celibate, who had sworn off ever having a relationship. I've seen them within a matter of weeks, find the right person and, and fall in love. I mean, it's unbelievable, really. But it's true.

    Speaker 1 (43:46):

    Yeah, I remember reading about it in the book and it makes sense to me. I do feel I've been having experiences lately. I share very openly about my experiences on the show. And I, but I haven't shared this, I haven't talked about it, but I've been having this kundalini experience, and that really starts at the base of the spine and then starts reaching up and going through the heart. And the rush of opening that I've experienced during some of these in the heart area is a different experience of the heart energy that I've ever had. And I imagine what you're talking about is kind of like that. It's this opening and freeing of, I see the heart kind of as a rose, and that the energy can flow more freely. And like you're saying, that there's gray matter and white matter in there, and it really is the brain. I know. We think this lob of fat that we carry around on our <laugh> in our heads is the king and queen of everything. But I don't think that's the case. I agree with you. It's probably more visceral and in our chest, like in our heart.

    Speaker 3 (44:56):

    Yeah. I believe that we really are designed to be heart-based beings. We're designed, I think, to live from our hearts. But somewhere along the line that we've gotten to this point where most people are living from their brain. They're trying to create their perfect life by using this analog computer. But the software for us, really, our pure essence lies within our hearts. And it's so fascinating because when that wall is taken down, the things that we see happening, there's lots of, I mean, we've got 10,000 plus maybe 20,000 testimonials now from people around the world about this kind of thing. And you can see some of those on our [email protected]. But it's the most amazing thing. And by the way, I didn't mention this, but one of the most beautiful things about the emotion code is that if you learn how to use it for people, you automatically know how to use it for animals as well. And it's phenomenally powerful for animals. You've got an animal that's got a physical or a behavioral issue, you can probably fix that in short order with the emotion code. I mean, it's, there's a whole chapter in both the emotion code book and the body code book about animals. And it's a great proof of this work because there's no placebo effect with animals. They're just animals. And yet we see that they have emotional baggage. And getting rid of that baggage can make an enormous difference for them too, if

    Speaker 1 (46:14):

    Have pets. Yes, there are so many applications, pets, you can treat your family. And I love that in the book. You really, you really can do this yourself. It's very easy to do and applicable. So we will have the link for the free gift in the show notes. But if you'd like to give that again, give all the places, share all the places that people could find out more and find you online, find the book. I so appreciate you coming on the show and sharing this brilliant technology that you have discovered, developed, I'm not sure which, but it's, it's very beautiful and very valuable. So thank you so much for sharing it.

    Speaker 3 (46:54):

    Well, thank you. And people can, can find [email protected]. That's our main website, discover healing.com. You can go to emotion code gift.com and get the first couple chapters of the book for free. My personal blog is Dr. Bradley nelson.com. It's D-R-B-R-E-D-L-E-Y-N-E-L-S-O n.com. And of course, we're all over the, you know, social media too. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter and so on.

    Speaker 1 (47:18):

    Great. Perfect. So I highly recommend that you go and look at the free gift, read the first couple chapters of the book. Like I said, the chart that Dr Bradley showed earlier is there, you can read that chart and you can get started working on your heart, well, your emotional baggage, which will help you with your hormones. Thank you again so much for joining me today for another episode of The Hormone Prescription. I look forward to seeing you on social media and hearing how you are applying the things that you've learned today and the results that you're experiencing. I'll see you next week for another episode. Until then, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

    Speaker 2 (48:02):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

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  • On this empowering episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, we are thrilled to introduce our special guest, Dr. Traci Potterf – a compassionate and relatable Functional Medicine Anxiety Detective, who has dedicated her life to helping others understand and overcome their anxiety through holistic approaches.

    Dr. Potterf's own personal journey with anxiety led her to discover the world of functional medicine, and she is now on a mission to share her story and expertise in order to help others struggling with the same issues. With a unique focus on "befriending your body and your life", Dr. Potterf delves into the topic of anxiety from a fresh, empathetic and inspiring perspective.

    In this captivating episode, we explore:

    - Identifying hidden causes of anxiety: Learn how Dr. Traci Potterf's own experience battling anxiety inspired her to specialize in functional medicine and searching for the root causes of this all-too-common condition.

    - Natural solutions for addressing anxiety: Dr. Traci Potterf shares her expertise on various holistic and natural approaches to overcoming anxiety, from nutrition and supplements to mindfulness practices, prioritizing self-care, and more.

    - Befriending your body and your life: Harness your inner self and learn to befriend your body and your life in order to take control of your anxiety and live a life full of happiness, balance, and health.

    Don't miss out on the opportunity to learn invaluable insights from an inspiring and approachable authority in the field of functional medicine. Dr. Traci Potterf’s quote from the episode could not be more poignant: "It's time to reclaim our power and take control of our anxiety."

    Take a step towards taking control of your anxiety – tune into this enlightening episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast and find your path to a healthier, more balanced life. Connect with Dr. Traci Potterf and embrace her unique perspective on overcoming anxiety today!

    Speaker 1 (00:00):

    I said to my body softly, I want to be your friend. It took a long breath and replied, I have been waiting my whole life for this Naira Wahid. Stay tuned to discover a unique holistic approach to befriending your anxiety and healing it.

    Speaker 2 (00:20):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYN, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Speaker 1 (01:13):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive into a holistic and global approach to addressing anxiety by befriending your body and your life. Sounds intriguing, doesn't it? If you're suffering with anxiety, I know it can be debilitating. I used to suffer with anxiety as well and found my way out. And my guest today, Dr. Tracy Potterf, really has a unique perspective on healing anxiety. We talked about it. Sure, it's all the things I like to talk about and we do cover those, but it's so much more and she really has a unique perspective based on her background, which I'll tell you a little bit about and we'll really dive into it. And this concept, like I shared in the teaser of befriending your body who has been waiting her whole life for you to turn her attention to her and to talk to her and to listen to her might be new to you, but it's really revolutionary and foundational when it comes to not only healing anxiety, but anything and everything that's plaguing you physically, mentally, and emotionally. So stay tuned to find out more. I will tell you a little bit about her and then we'll get started. Dr. Tracy Potter is a functional medicine anxiety detective who helps growth-minded people find and fix the hidden causes with natural solutions so they can live a limitless life at peace in their own skin. As a psychiatrist daughter, former medical anthropologist and recovered debilitating anxiety sufferer, she shares a unique way out of the mental health epidemic with the world. Please help me welcome Dr. Tracy Potterf to the show.

    Speaker 3 (03:13):

    Hey there. Thank you for letting me be a guest on your show.

    Speaker 1 (03:16):

    So excited to dive into this topic with you because you are the functional medicine anxiety detective and you have a really unique way of understanding and explaining what anxiety is, why we have it from an anthropological perspective that I think a lot of people miss. I think a lot of times we traditional mainstream doctors like I used to be, we're all about what's the diagnosis, what drug do I need to give? But even from a functional medicine perspective, we might look at some of the systems, but I think there are other issues at play that we might miss. You come from a family with a father, is it who was a psychiatrist, correct. So I'm sure you got a front row seat to a lot of dysfunction. <Laugh>, your former medical anthropologist. So talk about your conceptualization of anxiety.

    Speaker 3 (04:16):

    Thank you. So yeah, I learned this the hard way. I've had lots of anxiety back in the day and what I realized, and I can share more about the process, but what I realized is that anxiety is not just some genetic chemical imbalance or like some individual defect. It is a symptom. It's not a disorder and it's a natural response to an unnatural environment. And the problem is that we've normalized a culture that tries to override nature instead of working with the genius or intelligence of nature. And that's why branded is inner genius health because your inner genius is you are nature. We are nature. It's not somewhere outside of us, it's what we are and our cells, our human cells, our micro cells, our DNA, and when we work with and not against that internal intelligence, then it's amazing what we can heal. And when we live in ways that for our inner genius and make it really hard on our inner genius, then we end up with what we have, which is an epidemic of mental health issues and chronic illness issues. And then we think that's normal aging. We think it's normal. And I've heard you say this and I say it all the time, say the same thing. Just because it's common does not mean it's normal. Nature's not that cool.

    Speaker 1 (05:37):

    It's so true. I love that I had to write that down. Anxiety is a natural response to an unnatural environment. We think what's wrong with us that we're anxious, right? But the truth is it's what's wrong with society, <laugh>. It's making us anxious. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I think a lot of people hear that and they go, what is she talking about? Of course, if you have anxiety, there's something wrong with you. What does she mean?

    Speaker 3 (06:04):

    Yeah, yeah. It's true that if you have anxiety, something's wrong, but it doesn't mean you're inherently defective as a human being. And so it, I think of anxiety, I use and abuse this metaphor. I think of anxiety as a smoke alarm. Just like all symptoms, it's a smoke alarm. And if your, let's say your house is on fire, wish someone, let's say something's on fire and the smoke alarm goes off and you just take the battery out of the smoke alarm and that's analogous to just numbing the symptoms or trying to make the symptoms go away. But if you don't put out the fire, then your house is still gonna burn down. So anxiety is like a smoke alarm. It's your body telling you something's wrong and often your brain on fire. You have neuroinflammation, you have issues in your gut, your brain, hormonal issues often like infections, toxic exposures.

    Speaker 3 (06:49):

    And this, a lot of this goes back to, so you were asking specifically, what are we doing now? What do we normalize? That's unnatural. I think a lot of people have an intuitive sense of this, but let's get specific. So we're eating crap <laugh>, like we're eating things. We're putting chemicals in our bodies that don't belong and we're depriving our bodies of nutrients that we need, which starts in the soil by the way. Like we have depleted, poisoned soil. And if you don't have soil that's teeming with microbes and mycelium and insects and we demonize insects, insects are amazing, right? Let's kill 'em all. Let's kill all the microbes. Let's just sterilize everything. That's the greatest way to destroy our whole species. And so we, that's another thing is like this mentality of sterilization. Now I understand if you're in a hospital and you don't want <laugh> like staph infections to spread, that's one thing.

    Speaker 3 (07:37):

    But like in our daily lives we've become so germophobic, but we don't realize we're poisoning ourselves with all these weird chemicals, toxins. And we're not too phobic, we're just like, ew germs. But then some of us are concerned about toxic chemicals, but a lot of people are oblivious to these like perfumes and creams and cleaning products. I've taken an informal toll, like I've talked to a lot of people who've been cleaning houses for decades and almost all of them have had cancer and cleaning products. Also, I think we know just sitting on our butts a lot and not moving, not squatting, not being able to squat and get up and down off the floor. That's a big deal. Mouth breathing. We're not breathing through our noses, we're breathing through our mouth for a whole lot of reasons, having our heads forwarded so that we screw up our posture and then we have trouble breathing and it causes cardiovascular disease, like not moving in joyful, playful ways, not playing, becoming alienated and not getting enough physical healthy physical touch and being held where like lack of tribe or community.

    Speaker 3 (08:34):

    It just goes on and on. Our sleep is messed up, our sleep is whacked. And then our circadian rhythms, this is a big one. Like people are starting to be like, okay, diet and exercise, which I don't even like those words anymore 'cause diet sounds like die, but like how we're eating. And then movement, I like it more than exercise, I'll use exercise, but I really like movement. 'cause It sounds more like play and exploration. But we're messing up our circadian rhythms. We're staying up late at night on these electronic devices. We're eating late at night, we're doing all these things that confuse our bodies and a lot of weight loss resistance and leptin resistance is tied to both how we're eating not and our sleep weight cycles and a relationship to light and the kinds of light we're exposed to at different times of day in the time of day we're eating.

    Speaker 3 (09:19):

    So it just goes on and on. But the thing is, all the solutions to all this are actually fun things that feel good. So I came up with this concept I call healthy hedonism, which is, so hedonism is like the pursuit of pleasure, but often people, we have a culture that's normalized toxic, addictive pleasures, things that destroy us. They feel good for a few minutes and then they destroy us and are often depressants, which are often neurotoxins. They are things that cause inflammation of the brain and nervous system, which causes anxiety, depression, brain fog, fatigue, trouble sleeping, just goes on and on. It is also because our nervous systems get dysregulated, then it messes up our immune system. A lot of people don't realize our nervous system and our immune system share biological structures and are in lockstep with each other. So then you have, you get sick more often or you have an overactive immune system and you end up without immunity and it just goes on and on and on.

    Speaker 3 (10:09):

    But what I want people to understand is the solutions. You can eat delicious food, you can have really wonderful self-care rituals that make you feel even euphoric. There are ways to move your body that feel like clay and you can still be really fit. We don't understand. It's not either or. It's that you don't give up pleasure to be healthy. You use pleasure and things that align with your evolutionary biology as a doorway to healing your body, healing your mind. So to heal your mind and your body, you have to heal your life.

    Speaker 1 (10:38):

    I love that he called it? Healthy hedonism. Healthy

    Speaker 3 (10:42):

    Hedonism. So pursuit of pleasure but healthy pleasures. So we need to broaden our pleasure palette. Like we need to be, like if you were painting a rainbow with just black and white, you'd be pretty limited. If you have the whole rainbow of human experience, then that's when you're really lit up and that's when you really come back home to yourself.

    Speaker 1 (11:00):

    So you described a lot of the lifestyle situations and conditions we're living under that are contributing to our anxiety. I'm wondering what your thoughts are, what you'd like to share about just the way that our brains function and are structured compared to other animals. One of the things I've loved about traveling is I get to encounter unique healers all over the world. And there's a guy who comes to Dubai called Ner Levy, and he does this very unique healing modality called the Ner Levy method. And he did a beautiful introductory talk one night and with the audience participation where to his work where he talked about the way in which we're living and what the difference is. And he brought in a lot of the things that you're mentioning. We used to live more rurally and communities and just the contact that we had, physical and emotional, spiritual connection with others. But this whole concept of what do we have? Why don't zebras have anxiety?

    Speaker 3 (12:04):

    Yeah, that's that why, yeah, that book is genius,

    Speaker 1 (12:07):

    Uniquely human because we have something they don't have, which is imagination. And that a lot of the things that we are anxious about as we we're, we have anxiety over is because of our imagination.

    Speaker 3 (12:21):

    That's a really good point. Yeah, it's true. We make a lot of stuff up. Like a lot of the demons are the, a lot of the, the predators are in our head most of the time. And it's interesting because we sit around, we can so easily all of us sit around imagining all kinds of scenarios and making ourselves nervous or whatever. And then we're sitting there overlooking the fact that we are actively, most people, <laugh> and industrialized society are actively doing things to thwart our own wellbeing. So we're actually, it's interesting because like I hear people talk about anxiety, like it's just all thoughts or you could just change your thinking. You wouldn't have anxiety. And that's true for certain kinds of anxiety. But there are different kinds of anxiety. So if you have anxiety because you have low estrogen or low progesterone or both, then sitting around positive thinking, is it gonna fix that?

    Speaker 3 (13:11):

    Or if you have anxiety, as I went through, I had Lyme, I've been through Lyme disease, I've been through toxic mold, I've been through lead poisoning, all of those things cause severe anxiety and anxiety was the first symptom of what was, what something was off. So that's why I, I teach people if you wanna really resolve your anxiety, and a lot of people are like, I've tried everything that didn't work and they're not very open. And the thing is there, you have to address like three areas because if you just do one outta three or two out of three, you're not gonna get better. You're not gonna get rid of anxiety. And, and I'm sure you work with people in these same areas, which is of course there's a lifestyle I just talked about. And lifestyle is your daily thoughts and actions and your environment, your physical environment, your social environment.

    Speaker 3 (13:52):

    So that's big. It's not just diet and exercise. Then there's finding hidden health causes, hormonal issues, infections, environmental toxins, all kinds of things like that. Like just hidden help causes. And then the third pillar is your nervous system, like how your nervous system is wired and programmed. You can rewire things to neuroplasticity, you can rewire your nervous system to go from being over overwhelmed to a state of calm. And you can actually change the neurological structure of your brain through practices that actually feel good and don't take that much time. Yeah. But back to your point about our imagination, our neocortex or executive function that we have as humans, it's a blessing and a curse. It's a double-edged sword because we can create so much <laugh>, ama so much like just wonder and awe magic with our consciousness. But we also can really make ourselves miserable and each other miserable. We're still learning how to wield what we're,

    Speaker 1 (14:49):

    Yes, we're learning how to wield the sword of, of who we are, how do we work with it? So it helps us. Something you touched on a few things just sparked something in me. You were running down kind of the list of all the things you need to look at. If you have anxiety, and you have this in the notes, I have this in my notes from you for the show, why no one has ever tried anything. So I actually just got off a consultation with a woman who, and if you're listening and you listen regularly to the podcast, I'm talking to you <laugh>, because I swear that you're telling yourself that you've tried everything. And what I will tell you is if you are still suffering with X, Y, z, fill in the blank, anxiety, insomnia, whatever the symptom is, you have not tried everything.

    Speaker 1 (15:39):

    Right. And anxiety really highlights this, but so does every other symptom in this order because there's absolutely, there's always a reason why. And I, we've done, I've done it issues, I've done shows <laugh> about anxiety and I talk about doing all the things, but the woman I was talking to literally told me I've tried everything and I've given her suggestions before on stuff that she should do and she doesn't do it right. So it's like where, where we're in denial. So I'm talking to you if you're listening, so listen up, you haven't tried everything if you're still suffering. But what I think is so important is, go ahead. Go ahead Dr. Tracy.

    Speaker 3 (16:24):

    Oh, no, no. Oh no. I was just gonna say, if you think about it, we live in an infinite universe. There is no such thing as everything having been tried because there's no end in sight. You just think of it logically. That's the reality. And what you were saying that there's, it's your body's asking for something and that's something exists. Like you may not. So when people say, I've tried everything and it didn't work, what they mean is I've tried everything that the experts have told me or that I've read about or that I've thought of or which doesn't mean everything, it just means what you're familiar with. Or it means I've tried everything that I felt ready and willing to try <laugh>. But maybe there's some things that I just thought maybe I don't really need to do. Maybe they're not that important and I just

    Speaker 1 (17:06):

    Skipped over it or everything I was willing to spend the time and money on because that's what I find, right? A lot of people are like, yeah, no, I, I'd rather get, so yeah, she was telling me about some cosmetic procedure that she was having done, but she doesn't, didn't wanna invest in this thing anyway. Yeah. Back to anxiety. How do people need to expand their awareness and really tap into what you call their inner genius? What is their inner genius and why is it crucial to heal just about anything?

    Speaker 3 (17:36):

    Yeah. So your inner genius is the genius or intelligent in nature that runs all of existence. It makes the planet spin in their orbit that makes the flowers win and the bees buzz and makes every chemical process, it's the magic of nature. And nature has this tendency to strive toward balance or homeostasis where it's trying to correct itself. And symptoms or sensations, emotions are nature's way of talking to us and communicating and guiding us. It's your inner guide, your inner wisdom. And when we don't listen to that or we don't know how to listen, 'cause we haven't been taught to listen, we don't speak the language, then we feel maybe like our bodies have betrayed us or like we're defective or we feel angry. But here's the thing, like if you put your hand on a hot stove and your body didn't say, ouch, get that off, would that be a loyal body?

    Speaker 3 (18:28):

    If your brain's inflamed and you're damaging your gut and your intestines with the food you're eating and your body didn't make your tummy hurt or make you have brain fog or headaches or anxiety, then you wouldn't be being notified. That would be betrayal. If our bodies didn't tell us something's off, that would be betrayal. And so your inner genius is your best friend. It is infinitely intelligent and it's something you can tap into. And one of my favorite ways to tap into this is a meditation practice. And for those of you who are thinking, I'm so tired of hearing about meditation, I suck at meditation. That is a story. And you're, that's your imagination. That's imagination. That's not an objective reality because there are ways, maybe you've tried things that didn't work for you, but there are ways, like I teach people really concrete ways to meditate that gives your mind a job.

    Speaker 3 (19:19):

    And believe me, every one of us when we start meditating or if we skip meditation and then go back after a while, you're gonna have what they call the east monkey mind. You're gonna be like, your mind's gonna be all over the place. It's gonna be like <inaudible>, especially mine, but <laugh>, it's okay. That's normal. And here's the thing is that's what's going on inside of you all the time. You're just used to the background buzz. And when you sit and be with it and you're willing to get out of your comfort zone and just sit and unconditionally be with yourself on what arises, and you give yourself a way to breathe, you give yourself a way to focus your mind. Anyone can meditate and, and what ends up happening in your nervous system feels like magic. And so one of the things I I offered is free, I call it a brain trick meditation, and someone else called it a magic meditation because it really does feel pretty magical.

    Speaker 3 (20:07):

    There's something you can do with your attention and with your breath at the same time. That's so easy. Anyone can do it. And in 15 minutes you're a totally different person. So if you have physical pain, emotional pain, anxiety, and also I accidentally discovered through my clients who are doing this at bedtime, it helps people who are having trouble sleeping and people, you can memorize it, it's a technique you memorize pretty quickly. So then you just have it the rest of your life. You don't need the recording anymore. And my clients just spontaneously started, they would wake up in the middle of the night, couldn't go back to sleep, they would do this process and then they would con out, they couldn't even get through the whole thing and they'd be back asleep again. So it's actually, I like this, I like to say it's better than melatonin for sleep or any other sleep aid.

    Speaker 3 (20:47):

    So like, just what we're able to do with our consciousness, with our breath is amazing. And that puts you in a possibility that then allows you to tap into your inner genius to stop sabotaging yourself and to get out of your own way and open up to the infinite possibility of your life. And then when you learn to do that, then that helps you have more of the wherewithal for the, the self-care, the wherewithal for the the functional medicine part and that kind of part, that kind of like all the, so it gives, it opens up the doorway to help you be more open to all the pillars, like all the steps you need to do to fix the problem. And I really fully believe that when you go through a mental health crisis, physical health crisis, even if it's been going on your whole life, I've had clients who've had anxiety since they, they remember being babies or toddlers having anxiety. They never remember not having anxiety. So they think, oh, I must be inherently defective and it's not true. So I have people who, who've been anxious their whole lives and within just a few weeks or really weeks to maybe a few months, three months, something like that, their anxiety has gone from like an eight to 10 daily, two to four. And that's, that's your ingen.

    Speaker 1 (22:00):

    Yeah. That's amazing. So I'd love that you bring that up because it's really like the prep work you need to get in the right space where you are open to receive the help that you're needing and you can tap into that eness. I think that we all have an innate intuition about what speaks to us and what we should go towards and what we should go away from. But we've learned to dampen it down so much that we're always looking to quote unquote experts to tell us what should I do? Right? And we really lose that internal guidance. That was true for me too. It's funny because when I learned about functional medicine after I transformed my health and then started working with people and some, a lot of people got it and some people just couldn't pick up the tools. What I realized is that there was a step before that happened for me that is exactly what you're talking about, Tracy, where I was able to tap into that inner heterogeneous and tap into being open.

    Speaker 1 (22:59):

    Because the truth was that these tools had come across my path years before and I had dismissed them and discounted them because I wasn't tapped into that frequency. So I love that you've created this pre-step for people to start tapping into that inner genius. So I definitely wanna say to everyone listening, that would be step one and then the person who is really anxious and I can identify with that because as everybody knows, I shared this before, I was so anxious at one point in my life before I found a, a root cause approach where I was on five psychoactive medications for anxiety and depression. And it ended up being all the things I like to say, right? It was my hormones. Yeah, it was my toxicity, it was my gut health. It was, you name it, right? Nervous system. And so now I've untangled all that and I really don't have anxiety or depression and I'm not on any medications and haven't been for years.

    Speaker 1 (23:57):

    But for the person listening, they're like, okay, Dr. Tracy, I get it. Okay. I need to calm my mind. Oh, I really wanna say one other thing about what you say about people who say, I can't meditate. I'm so tired of hearing about meditation, right? Do we ever say that about sleep? I'm so tired of hearing about sleep, right? <Laugh>, I'm so tired of hearing about my diet and what I eat. Like this is just something that you're gonna have to accept and face that you need to be doing, that you need to quiet your mind to get to the health that you want. Mm-Hmm,

    Speaker 3 (24:29):

    <Affirmative>. And you don't have to stop thinking that's not the point. Like people think, oh, I'm supposed to, I have to sit in the lotus position and I have to stop my thoughts and I have to like, and if I don't experience some kind of merging with the universe right away, then like I did it wrong. And like that's all like that. Those are all myths about meditation. And I wanna talk about meditation. If you're not meditating, it's like you're missing one of your senses. You're not, you're operating at a very narrow spectrum. If you look at the full spectrum of light and or this full spectrum of color and you only knew about three colors and you didn't know about all the other colors, like there's an intrinsic pleasure and value in going into your in, I call it your inner verse, your inner space going into inner space.

    Speaker 3 (25:13):

    There's magic that happens there. There's it, it's amazing. It takes some time but not that long. It just takes consistency. Just like moving your body, just eating, just like sleep habits. Like it's just a habit. And it is, I really feel like if you go through a human life without ever developing meditation practice, you are missing out on a huge part of human possibility because there's like an inner world inside of us that makes us feel complete, that makes us feel whole. That makes us feel like you hear people mocking one with the universe, but feeling at one with the universe is really awesome. It feels amazing. So I just don't miss out on that. Don't like to do homework like you've gotta go meditate or else you're a bad girl or a bad boy. Most women here on this podcast, right?

    Speaker 3 (26:00):

    No, don't miss out on this inner party. Like it's like there's this amazing party and you're missing out on it inside of you. And your inner genius, yes. Is that consciousness and that consciousness drives your thoughts, your emotions, your awareness. But that consciousness drives all chemical processes. Your inner genius is also the chemical processes in your body. The inner geniusness is how microbes talk to each other and share genetic information. The inner genius is happening in the soil, it's happening in the plants, it's happening in the stars, it's happening in the sun, it's happening like that. The inner genius is happening. There's, for the inner genius, there's no differentiation between physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. 'cause It's all the same consciousness.

    Speaker 1 (26:41):

    Yes. And be patient with yourself. You didn't learn how to tie your shoes in one day, so it takes half.

    Speaker 3 (26:46):

    You did not.

    Speaker 1 (26:47):

    But yeah. So I have to, you gave me some beautiful quotes that I just have to pull all of them in before we end. So I've gotta start doing it now. You have this one from, do you say it, naira Wahe. And I said to my body, softly, I want to be your friend. I took a long breath and replied, I have been waiting my whole life for this. Oh my gosh, that gives me chill bumps. I've never heard that quote before. Tell me a little bit about this quote and what this means.

    Speaker 3 (27:18):

    At the end of the day, that's what our bodies want. That's what the pain is telling you. That's what the suffering is telling you. That's what belly fat is telling you. That's what the headaches, that's what everything is telling you. I wanna be your friend. I wanna take care of you. I want you to pay attention to me. I want you to love me. I want us to be on the same team. And we don't have a culture that teaches us to do that. And we have such a cliche culture. We usually look at TV shows and movies and advertisements. It's, I had a bad day, I need a drink. Let's like wine and chocolate is the only way to feel good. I'm not saying you can't ever enjoy wine and chocolate. I'm just saying that's so narrow compared to the vast. And so I just, yeah, we have to make friends with our, with our bodies, with our inner genius.

    Speaker 1 (28:01):

    I think for a lot of people, that's a really novel and radical concept because like you said, our culture is all about, oh, you're stressed, drink or do XY shop or whatever. But so for those people who are intrigued, how do they start to befriend their body?

    Speaker 3 (28:19):

    Well, one of the things I say, I think it's still on my website where you can get the brain to take meditation. I think it says unlock yourself healing superpowers. I don't know if I still have that on there, but it's, I feel like when you first start to have experiences where you have the ability to change, disrupt and change and transform a pattern in your body and you realize you have more control over your body than you realize, or you first start making changes to the quality of the food you're eating. Like here's the deal. You can still eat things you love whether it's hamburgers or pizza or curries or whatever, you just eat healthy versions of them and you balance your meals better. That's a whole other conversation. But if you're using quality ingredients and you balance the nutrients, there's kind of nothing within reason.

    Speaker 3 (29:03):

    There's very little you can't eat and still feel good afterwards. And like having, I think a lot of people don't have, we talk about boundaries these days, which I think is an important conversation. But what about boundaries around how you treat yourself? We talk, we have junk food, we have junk thoughts, junk beliefs, junk habits. And one thing I like to say about food is like when I give talks, sometimes I'll say, what is the most intimate thing we do with something outside of ourselves? And most people are thinking sex, right? Sex is incredibly intimate, but eating is more intimate because the molecules of the food become new. They become your body and become your thoughts, your feelings, your emotions, the perceptual lenses in which reality, right? And why wouldn't we have standards around that? And one of the things I just wanna gripe about is all the people saying restrictive diets.

    Speaker 3 (29:54):

    When people decide, Hey, I'm gonna take care of myself. I'm gonna stop poisoning myself and start nurturing myself and only eat like really yummy things that serve me. And other people are like, oh, you are on a restrictive diet. I'm like, no, I'm being liberated by my choices. This is freedom. There are so many hundreds of thousands of species of healthy edible things on this planet. And we are fixated on all this processed crap that's made from the same few in ingredients of natural ingredients and then thousands of chemicals. And we think we're being restricted when we decide to stop hurting ourselves. Like I got, if someone got out of an abusive relationship and said, I'm not gonna be in this abusive relationship anymore, will we tell that person, oh, you're really restricting your life by not letting this person abuse you. That doesn't make sense.

    Speaker 1 (30:38):

    And I think it goes right into this other quote you offered from Maya Angelou that I love. If you're always trying to be normal, you will never know how amazing you can be because I think that we try to fit in quote unquote normal. We wanna eat like everyone else and live like everyone else and have the same cars in the same fashion and all these things. And we spend so much time trying to be normal. But talking about how that affects your health is an example you just gave. Like the diet that's right for someone else might not be the right diet for you, but how you look at it, if you call it restrictive, it's different than this is the right diet prescription for me. So talk a little bit about that and how you can let go of being normal so you can know how amazing you're

    Speaker 3 (31:33):

    Yeah. Yeah. I love, yeah, I love that. I love <inaudible> period. But I love that quote. Yeah, so it's okay. It is so normal. We're tribal creatures. We evolved in tribes. We don't wanna get kicked out of the tribe and like, how are you gonna fit for yourself? How are you gonna get food? How are you gonna have a get sex and partnered and whatever like it, it's normal and understandable that we want to be part of a tribe, we wanna be in communities and we wanna fit in. I get that. I totally get it. That's nature. But what's not natural is now that we've normalized what we think is normal, goes completely against the very essence of what we are. And we, we, I heard, I think it's Gabor Mate said something about we have a culture, I forget what he said. That incentive our culture incentivizes us to betray ourselves, is what he was saying.

    Speaker 3 (32:23):

    Yeah. And so here's the deal. The way we make culture is by you and you and me and Dr. Kieran, like Dr. Dunston, like all of us are voting on culture. We all create it with our lifetime. We create it with how we spend money, we create it, it with what we consume. We create it with what we share. I don't mean getting on a soapbox and preaching at people and being righteous. That's obnoxious and that's not gonna create a connection. But when we all start as individuals and just lovingly making different choices, we model something different to other people and then those other people who are right on the edge of being like, I've been wanting to do that too. Suddenly it starts a domino effect. Like when I started changing my lifestyle, I tried preaching, didn't work, blow up in my face. That's why I say, don't do that.

    Speaker 3 (33:06):

    That was in my twenties. Didn't know better <laugh>. But what I've noticed now is like when I've had housemates or people that live in my home, I don't tell them how to eat or preach to them, but they watch what I do and then within months they've all lost weight and are feeling better and are eating differently. Because it was just modeled to them that we're like, we learn through mimicry, we learn through modeling by being willing to be different and to come back into alignment with how the ways we evolve to live, to start to work with. And not against your inner genius. You're coming home to yourself and you're letting yourselves come home. You're letting your consciousness come home and that feels so good and lights you up and puts you in a much deeper state of love and expansiveness. And then that's contagious.

    Speaker 3 (33:46):

    And then other people want that. And people who criticize it or don't get it, they're just not your people. They're not your tribe. They're a different tribe. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. And I just want people to understand. And here's another reframe for you guys. I think just on a primal level, we all have that little kid who doesn't wanna be left out at the birthday party or whatever, at school or dinner. And here's the deal, if you do what everyone else is doing in the main, in the mainstream, if you follow the mainstream, you're pretty much guaranteed to have chronic illness, to have mental health issues, to have cognitive decline, to become disabled, to be in diapers in your elder years, not be able have a walker be in a wheelchair, to be in lots of pain, to get autoimmunity, to get cancer, heart disease, to have your organs fail on you, to have like really invasive surgeries to like, you know this like that. If you wanna be included, that's what you're opting into. But what if being left out wasn't the worst thing in the world? What if you're being, instead of being left out, you're opting out of all these horrible things I just mentioned that we think are normal aging. What if you're opting out and by doing so you are setting an example that can help other people in your tribe do the same thing so that we can co-create a culture of nurture instead of a culture of torture. Yeah,

    Speaker 1 (35:04):

    I think that's something definitely important to ponder. And I think it's really the era that we're going into with this age of Aquarius coming, this myth of normal HaBO mates. And really our individuality and our uniqueness. And instead of top down, we're more communal and sharing and finding what's right for each one of us, which is going to vary greatly. But it can't happen if you don't have a relationship with your body and you're, you haven't befriended your body. One of the things that I love to teach women to do is to talk to their bodies. Talk to different folks. Yes,

    Speaker 3 (35:45):

    Me too. Oh my God, I love that.

    Speaker 1 (35:47):

    Yeah. Talk to their symptoms and ask what is the message that you have for me? Right? I always say that symptoms are the messengers, they're not the problem themselves. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, they're pointing to the problem. Right. But with every I Amen. Symptoms. Yeah. That we have, there's always a reason and a role that it's serving. But I love how you said earlier, Tracy, that it's usually multifactorial and there are often physical, biochemical, physiological correlates and there's usually a deeper meaning. So I think it's important to focus on all of these. And I know some of you are listening and thinking, Karen, you haven't gone into the microbiome in the gut as a cause of anxiety and you haven't. Okay. It's hear all those things. But no, I'm just saying people listen, <laugh>, we've done that on other podcasts so many times. Go listen to the other podcast.

    Speaker 1 (36:41):

    But I think that what Dr. Tracy offers is, yes, gut health. Yes. Liver detox. Yes. Heavy metals. Yes. Mold, yes. Line, yes. All the things you've gotta do, the hormones, all the things and check all the things. But she really offers, you really offer a unique perspective that I don't think all root cause practitioners offer. And that's what I want everyone to hear and get is this connection to yourself, to your soul, this connection to other people, your connection to nature and universe and expressing that is a part of healing all physical health problems, including anxiety. So talk a little bit about that if you would. Yeah,

    Speaker 3 (37:28):

    Like our consciousness changes our biology. I think there are a lot of people out there that are talking about scientists, doctors. It's come out of the realm of just flu, which is where it was relegated for so long. Yeah. Because if you look deeper than, say you look at gut health and Lyme disease and all that stuff, if you look levels deeper, what caused that? Right? And why can some people have certain kinds of worms and what we call parasites and viruses. And there are people who have Borrelia or tick-borne illnesses or people who have HIV. There are people who have all kinds of different pathogens in their bodies. So there've been studies where they'll test thousands of people who are so-called healthy. I don't know where they're getting these people seriously, because I don't think there are that many Americans who are healthy.

    Speaker 3 (38:13):

    But I guess people who don't have diagnosed conditions and think they're healthy, there's, I remember this study, I wish I could, I need to find it again. But they did this elaborate testing on thousands of people who weren't considered sick and found that these people tested positive for a lot of these different conditions, a lot of these different pathogens, these critters inside of them that we consider pathogens and they weren't sick. Because it's not just the presence of the pathogen that makes the disease, it's how your immune system dances with it, which is directly tied to how your nervous system dances with it. So if your nervous system is dysregulated, your immune system becomes hypervigilant, just like your nervous system. So I think of a lot of these mold sensitivity and just stuck in chronic Lyme and chronic gut issues and just goes on and on. Even hormone stuff. Yeah. Mass cell activation, all these things is, and oh, and autoimmunity, I think of them as immunological PTSD. So your nervous system has PTSD and your immune system has PTSD and they're stuck in a rutt together. And I don't know if I'm going off down a little bit of another angle, but

    Speaker 1 (39:18):

    No, I love it. I just think that's amazing. Immunological. P ts d Go on

    Speaker 3 (39:23):

    <Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, what ends up happening is a lot of this is in the nervous system. And so the thing is you can't just meditate and do nervous system work and not clean up the infections and not clean up your gut and not balance your hormones and, and not eat well and not take care of yourself and not get sleep. You can't just do one, A lot of people wanna just find a magic bullet, but we're trying to orchestrate, like you have a cellular symphony that you're trying to get to plain harmony and you can't focus only on one instrument and expect the whole symphony to sound amazing. And so there's a process like that's why I've created a proven process. And I know Dr. Dunton has proven processes that we take people through. So you have some support with this.

    Speaker 3 (40:06):

    'Cause It can be overwhelming. I'm really, I'm supposed to do all this stuff, like I have a life, I'm busy. And so getting help because we are tribal creatures, right? And so it's just really important to really work with our nervous systems and our connection to something deeper as to circle back to what you were saying, like when we are connected to something beyond ourselves, we open up realms of possibility that we couldn't have even imagined possible before. And when you open up to that possibility, then suddenly all these other parts of the puzzle start filling in as well. And that's why having a guide that can help you through a process, because a lot of people just wanna go to someone and give an, get an appointment and have them tell me what supplements to take. And maybe I'll cut out a few foods, which are all fine things.

    Speaker 3 (40:50):

    There's nothing wrong with that. But if you don't do the deeper work mentally, physically, emotionally, in terms of your self-care, your daily habits, your thoughts, actions, beliefs, if you don't go through, go on a journey. If you don't go on this inner pilgrimage, like your body's gonna still keep telling you something's wrong and then you're gonna think something's wrong with you or you're gonna be mad at your body or feel betrayed. But that's not what's really happening. What's really happening is that you need to go on this inner pilgrimage to move through the different layers to come into the version of yourself that is sitting inside of you. You're not, the idea of this isn't to become a better person, it's to polish your, you're a gem and to polish, get the mud off and polish the beauty of what is inside of you already that is not getting fully expressed.

    Speaker 1 (41:33):

    Yeah. I love it so beautifully said Tracy. And I think that the gift of chronic symptoms and chronic illness is that eventually it will force you into this inner path and this inner journey if you keep at it, unless you give up. And that inner path and inner journey really is what not only brings you to physical healing, but greater expression of yourself in this lifetime. So I know we are running short on time, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about the demonization of estrogen. One of my favorite topics. Yes.

    Speaker 3 (42:14):


    Speaker 1 (42:16):

    <Laugh> that it has caused so many millions is currently causing so many millions. Somebody reached out to me on social media the other day and said, Dr. Kieran, I've been on estrogen, I think she said for five years. And now I'm 55 and my doctor's telling me I have to stop it or I could get cancer or die from a heart attack. And this is a regular occurrence that people are told this and we can't stress it enough. So why don't we talk about that before we wind up.

    Speaker 3 (42:46):

    Oh, I love to. Let's get into it. So one of the first things I wanna say. My dad was a doctor. I grew up helping out in his office. I grew up in psychiatry and I can tell you doctors don't have time to delve into the research 'because they are so stinking busy. And there are certain people, practitioners who really stay abreast of research. I know Dr. Dunson does too, right? Do you like to be called Kieran? Dr. Kieran? Dr. Dunston.

    Speaker 1 (43:13):

    <Laugh>. I'll answer any Kirin is fine

    Speaker 3 (43:16):

    <Laugh>. Anyway, So I think people don't understand, doctors are human beings. And once you're taught something and it sticks in your brain and you haven't had the timer bandwidth to really like dive in and refute it or change your thinking, and then you also have these American medical Association or whatever country you're in, standards of practice that put a gun to your head that if you don't follow the formula, then you could get sued, you could lose your license, you could get in trouble. So it's really rough. So a doctor would have to feel extraordinarily well informed to go against the grain and have a really strong convention to take that risk. And once you do research this, you find out that there was never any evidence that estrogen causes cancer or heart disease or dementia. That has never happened, never existed. The Women's health initiative in two, 2002 that where they stopped the study because they said that there was increased risk with hormone replacement therapy.

    Speaker 3 (44:07):

    That was like, if you go dig into it, like instead of spending a lot of time, I'm sure you have lots of other episodes where you talk about it. And I'm sure like you can go read, there's this great book called Estrogen Matters that goes through step by step dismantling the whole thing. It doesn't take that long to read. You can also get it on audible. Estrogen matters. So one of the problems culturally is that we have a history of demonizing estrogen. And from a medical anthropology perspective, one of the things I've really looked at is history. Even if you look at the word hysterical comes from the Latin root for the word uterus. And like femininity in so many ways, like female hormones, female body parts have been pathologized like going back centuries. And we don't do that. Men are low on testosterone.

    Speaker 3 (44:53):

    We're not like, you're not allowed to have any, if people are low on thyroid, then we're not told you can't have any, if people are low on D three and that's a hormone, not a vitamin, we don't tell people you can't have any and it's gonna cause cancer and kill you. This whole idea that estrogen causes cancer, like estrogen cause cancer, then the people getting the most cancer would be really young women with high levels of estrogen, not older, middle aged women. It just makes no sense. If you look at the evidence there that that has never been shown and researched to, to exist. It doesn't exist. It's a, it's like literally one of the most damaging rumors that has ever made its way through medicine. So if you need estrogen, there are ways to get support. Now you I, in my, you can see what you say, what you think, but I don't think people, I think it's important not to take, if you can make your own hormone, then you don't wanna take so much that you impede your body's ability to make it own, make its own. But if you are really low on estrogen or progesterone and you're suffering, you need to take it. And I personally really am an advocate of bioidentical hormone replacement therapy as opposed to synthetic, especially progesterone progestin. It's not even the same molecule as progesterone. So I think it's really important for people to use really natural progesterone like the actual progesterone molecule and not progestin. I dunno, what do you think about that?

    Speaker 1 (46:14):

    Oh yes. Natural, absolutely. Bioidentical biologically identical. I mean, everybody listening knows we've got her hormone club if they need access to physicians who are experts in that board certified and licensed if they need access. But biologically identical if you need it, it's not appropriate for everyone, but Right. For the right. Yes.

    Speaker 3 (46:36):

    Yeah. And also, I do wanna say I am a huge supporter of bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. And it's important to know, if you look at the domino effect of like the cascade of hormones in the human body, so much of hormone production starts in parts of the brain that also create chemicals that make stress hormones. So when we are stressed out, and then of course, I know you guys know from following Dr. Kieran, that all these toxic chemicals in our environment, our liver, you know all this, like this is all causing hormonal havoc. So when our brains are dysregulated, hormones are happening in our brains, they're happening in our liver, they're happening in our microbiome, our microbiomes are managing hormones. A lot of people don't realize that. And so when we do all the parts to really take care of our nervous system to nur nurture and nourish ourselves to sleep and to rest, and to have a meditation practice that, that you can fit in your schedule in life and that works for you when you do all those things, a lot of your hormones will self-Correct. When you get the nasty chemicals out of your body, a lot of it will self-Correct. But whatever does not self-correct, through self-care and all these measures, then it's okay to take hormones. Please do. It's not worth being miserable just to say, I'm not taking this.

    Speaker 1 (47:53):

    Yeah, it's a whole other conversation because that's what my TEDx talk was about, the consequences of hormonal poverty. So even for people who don't have symptoms, they, you do need to educate yourself on the consequences of not having these hormones because it's more than just symptomatology, but it's more than we have

    Speaker 3 (48:13):

    To go into. Yeah. Yeah. It does increase all risk mortality. It does increase your risk of outcomes of diseases. Like basically, it's dangerous not to have your hormones balanced.

    Speaker 1 (48:23):

    And gosh, Tracy, we could talk about for so long, we could talk forever. <Laugh>, I really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your very deep perspective on anxiety that people aren't going to hear anywhere or most places. So I know you've got the simple brain trigger me for them. We will have the link to the show note in the show notes, but tell them all the places they can find and connect with you online.

    Speaker 3 (48:52):

    Absolutely. You're welcome to join my email list and get content there. You can follow me on Instagram, YouTube, or I'm on Facebook and LinkedIn. So just the usual social media channels. I'm really easy to stalk <laugh>, like my phone, my name is very unique. No one else has it. So if you can spell my name, you can find me.

    Speaker 1 (49:10):

    Awesome. Thank you Dr. Tracy Potter for coming on the show, <laugh>, and we very much appreciate it.

    Speaker 3 (49:18):

    Yeah, thank you. I've loved connecting with you. Thank

    Speaker 1 (49:20):

    You. And thank you for joining me for another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kieran. I hope you found today's episode inspiring, insightful, and you've probably heard some things that you've not heard before about your health. So I look forward to learning how you're gonna start befriending your body and going deeper and really start having a conversation with her because she's talking to you and she's waiting for you to talk to her. So start listening, reach out to me on social media and tell me all about it. Until next week, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

    Speaker 2 (50:02):

    Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

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  • Welcome to another episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast! In today's episode, our host [host name] is joined by the distinguished Dr. Jeffrey Gross, a board-certified neurological surgeon who specializes in anti-aging and regenerative medicine. Together, they explore the groundbreaking developments in stem cell technology and its role in improving health and combating disease. Dr. Gross starts by offering insights into how he discovered the immense potential of stem cells in the field of regenerative medicine. This led him to establish ReCELLebrate, a cutting-edge initiative focused on providing modern biochemical treatments and, where possible, avoiding surgical intervention. Dr. Gross takes us on a deep dive into the longevity and biohacking consultations he conducts at his ReCELLebrate clinics in California and Nevada. In addition to his work with stem cells, Dr. Gross also shares how his expertise extends to treating athletic injuries and performing spine procedures. Throughout the conversation, he delves into the nuances of these treatments and provides invaluable information on how stem cells can be an effective solution to many health problems. Reflecting on his background, Dr. Gross walks us through his fascinating journey in the field of medicine and how he became a leading expert in stem cells and regenerative medicine.

    Show Highlights:

    * How Dr. Jeffrey Gross discovered the impressive capabilities of stem cells in regenerative medicine.* The founding and goals of ReCELLebrate, Dr. Gross's innovative approach to employing biochemical treatments.* An inside look at Dr. Gross's ReCELLebrate clinics and the longevity and biohacking consultations offered.* Dr. Gross's expertise in addressing athletic injuries and spine procedures, and how it ties in with his work in regenerative medicine.* A glimpse into the captivating background and journey of Dr. Jeffrey Gross in the medical field. Join us in this enlightening conversation with Dr. Jeffrey Gross, and learn about the incredible possibilities that stem cells and regenerative medicine have to offer. Don't miss out on the wealth of knowledge this episode has to share, and be sure to subscribe to The Hormone Prescription Podcast for more enlightening discussions!

    [00:00:00] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Cade Hildreth, the founder of Bioinformant, a stem cell industry research firm, is quoted as saying, the regenerative medicine revolution is upon us. Like iron and steel to the industrial revolution, like the microchip to the tech revolution, stem cells will be the driving force of this next revolution.

    [00:00:20] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Stay tuned to find out how you can start using stem cells to transform your health, your life, and your longevity. So the big question is how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you're not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again.

    [00:00:45] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: As an OBGYN, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss and supercharged energy after 40 in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is [00:01:00] designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results.

    [00:01:04] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: And to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you're facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kieran Dunstan. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast. Hi everybody.

    [00:01:22] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive into the use of stem cells for regenerative and longevity medicine with Dr. Jeffrey Gross. This is really one of the most powerful and emerging aspects of health that is available to you now To create the health that you're wanting the healing that you're wanting that you might not be aware of Because it's not offered everywhere and usually not covered by insurance And your regular doctor's probably not going to talk to you about it But as I shared in the beginning the quote it [00:02:00] really is One of the most powerful tools that's going to transform medicine, just like our tech field has been transformed.

    [00:02:08] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: And there's another quote that I love that I'll share. The next age of medicine will revolve around stem cells, just like there was. the pre intranet age, there will soon be the pre stem cell age, and it will confuse the next generation to talk about it. So although now it seems a little way out and off the beaten path, it will probably become the standard of care at some point in the future.

    [00:02:32] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: So I know that if you're listening, you want to know everything that's available that could possibly help you create better health, live a longer and healthier life and increase your vitality span. So I know you're going to want to hear about extending your health and longevity using stem cells and regenerative medicine.

    [00:02:53] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: So I'll tell you a little bit. about Dr Jeffrey Gross and then we'll get started. Dr Gross is a board certified [00:03:00] neurological surgeon who identified the unique and powerful capacity of stem cells to help not only neurological problems but to regenerate many aspects of health affected by disease. He focuses on anti aging and regenerative medicine at his resellably Great clinics in California and Nevada.

    [00:03:17] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: So we're going to dive into this episode in not only neurologic applications, but arthritic joint applications, musculoskeletal and more. And we're going to talk about beauty applications too, which I know you're going to want to hear about. So please help me welcome Dr. Jeffrey Gross to the

    [00:03:35] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: show. Thank you so much.

    [00:03:36] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I'm Pleased to be here. It's an honor to join you today. Yes, I'm

    [00:03:39] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: super excited to have you on fellow physician who now has gone astray just like me and really found some things that can help people, which my audience really loves hearing about because they've done the HMO copay dr tango and [00:04:00] they know it doesn't work for them.

    [00:04:01] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: The number one question I get from people is why doesn't my doctor know what you know? Why doesn't my doctor offer me what you offer me? And they love to hear stories of doctors like you and me who were in the dark and found the light and what we know that can actually help them. So why don't we start there Dr.

    [00:04:22] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Jeff with your story from conventional medicine into what

    [00:04:27] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: you're doing now. Great. Thank you for the opportunity. Probably a bit like yours, I was trained to be a physician, many years of training, just like you, and came from professors who trained similarly 20 years earlier, who were trained by professors similarly 20 years earlier, and there's a, there's this sort of preservation of these traditional in the box thinking of medicine, and I haven't abandoned that, what I have done is expand on it, because probably like you as well, we're [00:05:00] scientists, And we explore and we ask questions and we want to know what's really happening and what we have to do our own homework on that sometimes.

    [00:05:08] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: So, I was practicing traditional spine neurosurgery. I was taking care of patients mostly with neck and back problems, injuries, disc issues, pinched nerves. A very, very busy practice and I noticed that patients were telling me something they were coming in and saying, Hey, doc, I've tried all the things you've recommended.

    [00:05:29] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I've tried therapy. I've tried time. I've tried prayer. I've tried supplements. I've tried anti inflammatories. I've even tried injections, but I'm still having problems. And we would talk, let's go over the surgical options. And they'd say, yeah, I'm just not quite ready. And I'd look at them and say, yeah, I think you're right.

    [00:05:46] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: You're not quite ready. You're not bad enough. And you're in that gap, that no man's land. And then they would say, Doc, what about lasers? And what about this? And what about stem cells? And you get hit enough time on the head with a rubber [00:06:00] mallet and that stem cell's stuck. And I finally said, you know what?

    [00:06:04] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Instead of going to the same old spine conferences every year And seeing, hearing the same old things reported, I'm going to go a different direction and I started going to different meetings and different educational conferences and got interested and retrained and now I've incorporated regenerative medicine and anti aging medicine and all these things into my practice to expand my tool base.

    [00:06:27] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Great, so You could learn from a pleasure perspective. I love that. So what happened when you went to your first stem cell conference? Take everyone through that. What really piqued your interest that you said, Wow, this is valid. And I need to know more about this because this could benefit my

    [00:06:45] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: patients. I was, I'm embarrassed to say that 32 years had passed since I had my undergraduate degree in biochemistry and I went to the meeting and it just reopened a lot that had happened in 32 years [00:07:00] that built on this really neat background in molecular biology and what we knew about cells and how they function together.

    [00:07:07] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And I was so busy going down this path of clinical medicine that I had missed. I never got a newsletter on all the updates in this and what we've learned. And so I was a little embarrassed and, but it was wonderful because it reopened that curiosity and that reason why I, I chose that as my undergraduate degree in the first place and all that had happened in stem cells and in exosomes and other regenerative biologics.

    [00:07:35] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And that had been applied clinically, meaning for patients. So it wasn't just on a lab bench. Yeah. So

    [00:07:41] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: let's get into stem cells. I think they're a mystery for a lot of people. And they're confused about what are the different types of stem cells, what can they be used for, what's FDA approved, what's not, what might they get in another country they won't get in [00:08:00] the U.

    [00:08:00] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: S., and also the benefits for longevity. And there are methods for stimulating your own stem cells. I recently learned about stem cells from endometrium and menstrual blood, which is really fascinating to me. But do you want to start there? Just kind of talking about what are stem cells?

    [00:08:19] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Sure. This is, we'll do a little stem cell one on one here.

    [00:08:22] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And this is, let's take it back. When we were embryos inside of our mothers, We are made up of a ball of cells, and those are all stem cells, and those stem cells are incredibly powerful. They start out omnipotent, meaning they can become anything, and they become further differentiated, and that's a biological word, meaning the cells start to work towards what they're going to end up being, and it's like a job assignment.

    [00:08:50] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: You go to the vocational office, you say, assign me a job and okay, you're going to be a liver cell and you over there, you're going to be part of the elbow. You get a job assignment. [00:09:00] As the fetus develops, these omnipotent cells become pluripotent. They have less opportunities, but they're still broad opportunities.

    [00:09:09] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And then they become a multipotent and they get all the way down to where they can only differentiate into certain types of tissues. And those are the vast majority of what's available clinically because they're safer. They can't go backwards in the lineage and create a whole new human or even something weird.

    [00:09:27] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: We don't want that. And you're coming from the OBGYN field, you've heard of teratomas, these very, very, very Germ cell based tumors and things that can, so we don't want to use those dangerous cells. We don't know how to control them yet. So when we use the word stem cells, we're talking about these, they just haven't made that final job assignment.

    [00:09:47] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Right. And these are typically from the mesenchymal or the mesoderm layer of the embryo. And meaning they form most of the connective tissues, most of the organs. And when you tap into [00:10:00] these stem cells, they can be very powerful. Now, as humans, we have stem cells in us. They are a bank of cells, a storehouse, if you will, of cells that our body is constantly tapping into.

    [00:10:11] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: We renew our skin constantly. We're making new skin cells. We renew our liver cells. And if we are injured or hurt somehow, those cells can be recruited to help repair us. Think about Doc, a three year old scrapes his knee on the sidewalk. And you bandage, you clean it up, put some Bactine on it, put a bandage on it, give them a kiss and send them on their way, right?

    [00:10:34] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Three days later, that bandaid comes off, but that scab is almost completely healed. But then you take, in comparison, a 70 year old who bangs her elbow, and there's a bruise for two and a half weeks. So why does the same person who healed so quickly at age three not heal the same at age 70? Why? Same genes.

    [00:10:55] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Same bank of stem cells. Of course, our stem cells lose steam with [00:11:00] age. They get exposed to what we learned in medical school is called vaguely inflammation, right? And inflammation is the accumulation of all this environmental damage, exposure to toxins, exposure to electromagnetic fields, what's in our diet, what's in our water, how we treated ourselves with stress or avoidance of stress.

    [00:11:22] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And I'm sure you've talked about this with others as it applies to hormonal function, right? We want to try to tend towards an anti inflammatory lifestyle. So in any way, our stem cells don't work as well to repair and regenerate us. And that can happen at different rates. So the whole basis of the stem cell biology as a treatment is to tap back into our own youthful ability to heal.

    [00:11:47] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Our cells have the blueprint and the molecules and the genes to do that. That's kind of the underlying basis.

    [00:11:53] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Okay. And regenerative treatment is defined as what, because that's [00:12:00] really what you specialize. In is regenerative treatment versus conventional medical approaches,

    [00:12:06] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: right? I suppose I still do a bit of both but Regenerative medicine is the new tool that i've had for about five years Which has really blossomed into many aspects of it And maybe this is a good part to answer your question about the fda So as you know, and many people don't fully understand the fda Is sort of the doctor's first amendment police and they decide based on their criteria what we can make claims about.

    [00:12:35] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And those claims usually deal with curing or treating a disease or condition. So for example, if a new medicine is being developed. They decide when we can say this medicine has been shown to, to help deal with diabetes or something like that. So, there has yet to be any real regenerative stem cell treatment that has been approved for claims.[00:13:00]

    [00:13:00] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: That doesn't mean it can't be done. The doctor and patient have a relationship and that's between them with proper informed consent. There are a couple things that are approved, but I don't know that I Consider them regenerative and that would be a bone marrow replacement for let's say, uh, leukemia. And this is why mothers might bank umbilical cord cells when they deliver a child.

    [00:13:24] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: That's traditionally been an approved treatment. Okay,

    [00:13:29] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: so you're saying no FDA approved claims made indications for the use of stem

    [00:13:36] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: cells? But let's be truly objective, since we're scientists. There have been no approvals or denials. So they have not said, we have approved, but we also have an unapproved.

    [00:13:47] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: It hasn't yet been decided. So the lack of approval does not mean that something is unapproved. And people don't fully, they tend to go only and hear the unapproved. That [00:14:00] doesn't mean, that just means they haven't been fully vetted these claims. You know, the proper full studies have not yet been okayed by the FDA.

    [00:14:09] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Okay, so can you talk about though what indications are generally agreed upon by experts in the regenerative medicine area as to what are appropriate uses that may not be FDA approved?

    [00:14:26] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: You should be a politician that was fantastically worded. For the purposes of doing this correctly, anything I give an opinion on today is not a treatment for an individual, and is not necessarily approved by the FDA, and is just worthy of discussion.

    [00:14:42] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And every individual is addressed. individually. So yes, there is wonderful scientific reporting, mostly from not in the United States. We have literature out of Europe. We have literature from Asia where they are ahead of us. And you think about this doc, [00:15:00] 15 to 20 years ago, professional athletes were leaving this country to get these treatments.

    [00:15:04] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And other people, but of notoriety, it would be the athletes. Now those athletes are staying in the country because it is available here in the U. S. The source of the biologics, the stem cells or the related biologic components are here produced by, ironically, FDA compliant labs. So, and these are typically from donors of C section births.

    [00:15:29] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Where the placenta, the amniotic fluid, the umbilical cord are preserved instead of thrown away and sent to labs where they're under clean and sterile conditions, tested and treated. The main uses start with musculoskeletal issues like joint problems. In fact, some of the best research comes out of France and these are protocols I follow for knee pain.

    [00:15:54] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And if I may just keep rambling on the, the, a study in France [00:16:00] just reported two years ago on the 15 year follow up. So that means they've been doing this for at least 17 years as a study and probably longer. And what they did is they took patients with end stage knee problems. Ready and recommended for knee replacement.

    [00:16:16] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: So these are conditions like bone on bone patients may have heard or arthritis is terms doctors use painful knee problems that need a knee replacement. Not everybody wants an open knee replacement. It has a role, but they took these patients said, wait, instead of having your recommended knee replacement, join our study.

    [00:16:36] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And in that study, they injected bone marrow derived stem cells from those patients. And we might circle back to that in a moment, but they took them from these patients, processed them, concentrated them, and injected them into two different areas in the knee. And over 15 years, one of the groups was significantly superior to the other group.

    [00:16:58] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And the group that [00:17:00] did well was in bone injected, so they injected the bone of the knee just above and below the cartilage. The cartilage injected group did okay initially. But then declined at each five year mark and it was over 80 percent of the bone injected group did not need that knee replacement.

    [00:17:17] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: They had been recommended 15 years earlier. In other words, those knees were saved. That's amazing. We follow that protocol and we do the bone work and you think about it. Your cartilage in your joints and in your discs of your spine is probably one of the least biologically active tissues. There are not a lot of cells.

    [00:17:37] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: It's sort of a collection of squishy proteins and collagen and we call this sort of the biological rubber of the body. The real activity, the part of your body that made that cartilage in the first place when you were a fetus was the growth plate bone marrow where you're most of your stem cells reside, your storehouse of stem cells.

    [00:17:58] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: So we follow that [00:18:00] protocol. So

    [00:18:00] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: with data like that, 80 percent did not need any replacement and they were bone on bone, which really that's the only standard of care treatment that we have to my knowledge. Why has the FDA not? Given an approval any

    [00:18:16] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: insight into that I'm going to go out on a limb here and say i'm sure there are political and economic pressures from Companies that make metallic knee implants.

    [00:18:26] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I am sure that the fda panels Uh that look at this. I have a very high threshold of studies in terms of number of participants And they love blinded and controlled studies, meaning blinded means the doctor doesn't know and the patient doesn't know if they're getting a placebo or not. And a controlled study means there's a placebo arm, but who would want to be that in that study that might get a placebo?

    [00:18:54] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: So it's going to be very hard to do a large population study with [00:19:00] placebo. So we are sort of at this. You know, difficult crossroads.

    [00:19:04] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Yeah, sometimes you have to follow your common sense. Anyone can tell you that the success rate of any cartilage naturally regrowing when you're bone on bone is probably zero.

    [00:19:19] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: So do we really need that control group? That's where I sometimes wonder when did we leave common sense by the wayside or the body of scientific Tiff acknowledge and experience that we have from decades of doing medicine the way we've been doing it. And so this is the place you can be very frank and honest.

    [00:19:39] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: So I throw Mainstream medicine under the bus on the regular because people just don't get it. They're scratching their heads Why don't I get these options at my hmo doctor's office? And so I really help them to understand that medicine is a business and that it has It's [00:20:00] its own motivations and doing lots of surgeries and procedures and prescribing lots of drugs is part of it.

    [00:20:07] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: And so if you want something different, then you've got to make different choices and look elsewhere, which I think is a great, I was going to ask you in a little bit, but I'm going to ask you now. The second question people ask me after why doesn't my doctor offer this is, Will my insurance pay for this?

    [00:20:24] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: So I think this is a good place to ask that.

    [00:20:27] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: You're absolutely right. There's a little bit of a conundrum. Because the FDA has not approved this for claims, your insurance has their hat to hang on that they, they will not approve this. However, there's something called PRP platelet rich plasma, which many people can get in their doctor's office, which is a taking your own blood and.

    [00:20:47] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: spinning it down in a centrifuge and pulling out the growth factors and the platelets and concentrating them and delivering them back to an area where there might be a strain or pain like a tennis elbow or a knee [00:21:00] ligament or something like that. And it is, it's rather simple. It is, it's sort of the lowest.

    [00:21:06] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Entry level regenerative medicine item and it is not approved for claims by the FDA But insurances are starting to pay for it because they're starting to see that it's less expensive than a surgical pathway So it might cost 500 to 1, 000 per session, typically people have two to three sessions. So, I think that's probably some good news in the long run towards insurance companies waking up and looking at the bigger picture and avoiding bigger open surgeries if possible.

    [00:21:40] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: There's always a role for the surgeries, I don't mean to say don't do surgery, I mean to say look at every option first, why not try a regenerative procedure because I can tell you. When I'm addressing a knee problem, it's usually two doses of biologics in the bone above and below the knee. [00:22:00] And we do that at a little injection facility with some sedation so no one has to feel the bone injection.

    [00:22:06] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: It doesn't take very long. Most of the work is done ahead of time. The targeting, the MRI, the testing. And We've got that down to where it's just under 10, 000 and I think that's a good price when you look at the lost work time, the downtime, the complications, the co pays you'd have just to have a knee replacement.

    [00:22:28] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Sure, the knee replacement might be less than 10, 000 out of pocket, but there's a cost of the pain and the recovery and the physical therapy and that kind of thing. So it's not cost prohibitive. For everyone. For some, I understand, but not for everyone.

    [00:22:43] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Yes, my mother had both knees replaced, and the pain she went through and just never had the same gait and walking ease, and if she could have avoided it at that time, I'm sure she would have in hindsight.[00:23:00]

    [00:23:00] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: So, let's get more specific, because I know people are wanting to know. So we've talked about knees. What other joint or musculoskeletal problems have stem cells been shown to help with? And then also maybe tie into there, you mentioned bone marrow as a source. What are the sources? Cause some people are saying, Oh my gosh, am I going to have to have my bone marrow removed to get stem cell treatment?

    [00:23:25] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: So where are these? Stem cells coming from? Are they autologous from the person? Are they from somebody else?

    [00:23:32] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: So let me work backwards. I'll start with that question and then work back to and expand on, on the types of things we can do beyond knees. Okay. So you can have bone marrow, harvested stem cells harvested from your own bone marrow, and even other sources like fat.

    [00:23:48] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I don't like the fat source. Because those cells are typically in an inflamed environment. And the whole theme here is to work against inflammation, which works to help our [00:24:00] body tissues function better and slow the aging process. I don't like to harvest, autologous is the word you used, and that means from yourself.

    [00:24:09] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I prefer the perinatal sources. These are again the donated, ethical, and FDA compliant labs that prepare these biologics. The biologics would be either stem cells or stem cell messengers, stem cell derived messengers. And these are the small particles that one cell uses to communicate with other cells in our body, wake up our own stem cells, activate them.

    [00:24:35] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And I have been able to keep the cost of procedures down with, I believe, at least as good efficacy, if not better in some areas. With the stem cell messengers and we call those exosomes or nanoparticles and they are basically a stem cell giving a message to other cells to behave in an anti [00:25:00] inflammatory, youthful, regenerative, restorative way and that's what we're, that's what we seek.

    [00:25:05] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Those come from basically what used to be medical trash. It's now medical treasure, and these are donated and screened individuals. Unless you're in a culture that preserves the placenta for the delicacy that it may be in some areas, this is You've probably delivered thousands of babies and thrown away the, all this great stuff.

    [00:25:30] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Am I

    [00:25:30] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: right? Yes. Who knew? You know, that HGTV show, isn't it called Trash to Treasure? But also I recently learned that in a lot of cultures, they actually bury the placenta to ground the energy body of the child into Mother Earth, which is a whole other conversation. So it's ethical to use it for medical procedures in the West, but in a lot of indigenous cultures, it probably wouldn't be so you [00:26:00] prefer the perinatal.

    [00:26:01] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: And it's not just for joint stem cells, not just for joints anymore. What are the other applications

    [00:26:09] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: that we get great results with joints? I would say joints. Joints are a wonderful and relatively successful application in our hands. And by joints, I'm including spine. We don't have the long term data on spine yet, like we do for knees.

    [00:26:26] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Knees were sort of an easy first study because there's so many people with knees and they're easy to inject in the knee area, right? It's down there. It's just asking for an injection. The spine is a little bit more interesting. You have to be cautious around nerves. And that's where I come in as a neurosurgeon, so I'm, I've been inside the spine thousands of times doing surgeries.

    [00:26:47] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I love doing fewer surgeries and more of these procedures. So we'll call that the musculoskeletal group. There are other things a little bit within the musculoskeletal group. One is there, there have been studies [00:27:00] showing improvement in bone density, which is very important in someone with declining hormone levels.

    [00:27:07] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Um, as, as you and your. Listeners must know the bone density is associated with longevity. The better your bone density, the better your longevity. And hormones are a big part of that. Weight bearing exercise is a big part of that. And other factors like certain supplements, vitamin D3, for example, and others.

    [00:27:25] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: So regenerative medicine can help support bone density. There are studies on that. The other longevity or I'm sorry

    [00:27:33] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: to interrupt you, but where What types of stem cells are used

    [00:27:37] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: and how are they administered? I have to look at the individual study, but you are correct. Most of the studies are either autologous harvested stem cells from that person, their donated stem cells from a perinatal source, or their donated stem cell messengers or exosomes from a perinatal source.

    [00:27:54] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Those are the three main applications that we call regenerative medicine. [00:28:00]

    [00:28:00] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: For bone density, how are those

    [00:28:01] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: administered? Oh, sorry. IV.

    [00:28:04] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Intravenously. Is anyone doing that in the United States? There

    [00:28:08] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: are a lot of us doing that. Okay.

    [00:28:10] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: And so. Because I think there are women listening who are going to want to know what would your criteria be for what degree of osteopenia or osteoporosis.

    [00:28:20] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I would say if there's any evidence for osteopenia and you want to get ahead of this and prevent this from going to full blown osteoporosis and you're already doing the traditional elements, weight bearing exercise, hormone optimization, things like this, the right supplements, it's something to look at.

    [00:28:38] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Osteoporosis. is associated with shortened longevity. So we want to get ahead of this. And the criteria would be making sure they've tried everything else first. Now if someone has a very focal area of osteopenia, maybe a hip issue, but the rest of their testing, because when they test for bone density, they test the hip, the spine, maybe the wrist, other areas.

    [00:28:59] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: [00:29:00] If we can focally treat by injection a spot area if needed. Yeah, but

    [00:29:06] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: I've seen thousands of bone densities on thousands of women and it's a rare person who has a spot problem. It's usually pretty global. And so how many treatments would they have of intravenous stem cells? Because I know there's some women listening who are thinking, Oh, I'm going to look into that.

    [00:29:22] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: So they probably want to know. We

    [00:29:24] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: probably do one treatment. And then monitor the bone density every six to 12 months and see what kind of length of benefit they got and what kind of benefit they got from it and use that as a guide. There's no signing up for, Oh, you'll need this every six or 12 months.

    [00:29:42] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: This is a individualized person and we guide it for that individual. So hopefully one treatment could give you. Months or years depending on how bad things are to start with how good your own status is your overall Inflammatory burden [00:30:00] and we can do blood tests to look at that in detail Because ultimately aging is an accumulation of this chronic inflammation and we need to not just give IV Regenerative biologics.

    [00:30:12] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: We need to look at every aspect of of what's causing root cause, right? What's causing inflammatory Yeah, let's

    [00:30:19] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: detour and talk about that because I talk about it a lot, but you can never talk about it enough. This is the rust. The inflammation is the rust that corrodes all your cells and degrades them.

    [00:30:32] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: And this is what causes premature aging, disease, death, everything. It is the enemy. So, it's vital. Every doc I know who works with stem cells, Requires that people reduce their inflammation if they're in a highly inflamed state But I think it would be important to hear your perspective on that

    [00:30:52] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I could not agree more and i've converged with you using the the word rust As you have so i'm [00:31:00] glad we've come together because you're right rust is oxidation And we are oxidizing and that's why antioxidants are good for us.

    [00:31:08] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: So We all are in a state of inflammation. That's during the day, during the light hours, we have neuro stress, we have physical stress, we have all these things and we have things in our food source and they cause our cells to react in a defensive manner and that defense is chronic inflammation. At night, we repair.

    [00:31:29] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: If we're sleeping and we're getting good sleep, restorative sleep, our bodies and our cells undergo a repair process. It's a DNA repair, all kinds of things. And we need to balance that by really understanding those and focusing on them. I think reducing exposure to inflammatory items is probably the easiest thing we can do.

    [00:31:50] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Eating a cleaner diet, for example, avoiding toxins in our environment to the extent we know they're there and we can, limiting electromagnetic [00:32:00] waves. Turning off the screens at night and the other things we can do to reduce inflammation are lifestyle changes, like making sure we exercise, eating in the light window and not eating in the dark window, intermittent eating, intermittent fasting.

    [00:32:14] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: We can even supercharge the reduced inflammation. By what's called hormesis. Hormesis as, as you may have, you and your audience may know, is a slight stress upon our cells to build resilience and to clear out the senescent zombie cells that are taking up space and resources. And that might come through exercise.

    [00:32:35] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: It might come through calorie restriction, maybe a fast for anywhere from 24 to 72 hours. It might come from hot sauna use or cold plunges. And these stimulate the body to release survival proteins, which help reduce inflammation. These are the kind of proteins we find in stem cells and stem cell messengers.

    [00:32:54] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: So ultimately, the regenerative medicine is sort of a hack or a biohack to slow [00:33:00] inflammation. And as it slows and reduces and reverses inflammation at the cellular level, it's reducing aging at the cellular level. And you see many ads on social media. That our product reduces inflammation at the cellular level.

    [00:33:14] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: That's how we're going to reduce our, slow our aging. We have to do it at the cellular level. And everybody

    [00:33:19] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: stay tuned because Dr. Jeff does have a gift for you at the end of the show that's gonna, uh, help some things that you can do to help reduce your inflammation so you don't want to miss that.

    [00:33:31] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Alright, let's jump back. We were going through the indications and treatments. We talked about knees, spine. We talked about osteoporosis, osteopenia, bone thinning. What other indications

    [00:33:44] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: are there? We've treated with IV many things. So we have patients who have come to us with declining kidney function and whether that's related to too much sugar in the life over your life and diabetic changes acquired type two [00:34:00] diabetes, whether it's related to high blood pressure that hasn't been adequately controlled or even other items.

    [00:34:06] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: What happens is the blood test called creatinine starts to go up because your kidneys can't remove that amount of protein from the body. And yeah, We have seen declining, improving creatinine levels in patients who showed progressive problems with the kidney function, who wanted to avoid dialysis. So we've had a couple patients specifically, and we've only had to do one IV on each of those.

    [00:34:31] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: patients where their creatinine is improved and we're just watching their blood test with the creatinine. And people come in and say, I've had so much other benefits from that. I think better, more clearly. I have more energy. I sleep more soundly. We get all these beneficial side effects from the IV.

    [00:34:49] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Just, I wanted to add something there.

    [00:34:50] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Just as you're talking, it makes perfect sense that I'm sitting here thinking, why don't we give them to everyone intravenously because just the three year old boy [00:35:00] who falls and scrapes his knee. All you have to do is protect it from infection and getting scraped again. And then the stem cells, the messages throughout the body say, send stem cells to this cut and fix it.

    [00:35:12] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: It tells what to do. And so that example you gave is beautiful about the kidneys and declining kidney function. You give the stem cells intravenously, they know where to go. And they know what to do and they know to fix the problem. So why aren't we giving it? Do some people just say, I want general longevity.

    [00:35:33] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: And I know you're going to talk a little bit about that. And I want to heal whatever's broken that I don't know about. And you just. Give them intravenous stem cells.

    [00:35:43] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I don't want to give the idea that stem cells fix everything, right? I think they try it. This is not a cure all, but we love to add it when we can as an alternative or an additional item to help repair or recover in medicine.

    [00:35:59] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: We call it [00:36:00] an adjunct therapy, right? So this is an add on treatment. For example, we see patients who are recovering from heart attack and we show improved cardiac. function from I. V. Regenerative biologics. We see patients recovering from stroke or have suffered what's called traumatic brain injury used to be called chronic concussive syndrome.

    [00:36:21] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And these people have lingering effects of brain injury, maybe from an accident or something. And we have shown some benefits there. And there are some studies published on this. Now it should be known that the stem cells do not readily cross the blood brain barrier when they're delivered IV. So the benefits we're actually seeing are more with the stem cell messengers, the stem cell derived exosomes I mentioned to you earlier because they are so small.

    [00:36:49] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Remember they're called nanoparticles for a reason. They're very small. They cross the blood brain barrier and stimulate the glial cells and that support our brain cells. [00:37:00] And you spoke earlier about other types of stem cells like endometrial base and things like this. There is wonderful work in more specialized types of stem cells.

    [00:37:08] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Right now, we do not use anything that's manipulated. So these are off the shelf, straight from the womb, tested, screened, and filtered. biologics, because the FDA is pretty clear that they don't want us using anything manipulated. Cells that have been conjured or cajoled into doing something very specific.

    [00:37:28] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: That is the next quantum leap in regenerative medicine, very specifically targeting stem cells and their messengers, engineered for a specific thing like helping to repair the islet cells in the pancreas in the case of type 2. It's for example, and again, most of these diseases of aging are diseases of inflammation and vice versa.

    [00:37:50] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Coronary artery clogging, atherosclerosis has an inflammatory component. Alzheimer's disease has an inflammatory component. If you look at [00:38:00] the tissue under a microscope, even type 2 diabetes, you look at the pancreas, it has an inflammatory component. We're really simply just reducing inflammatory exposure and effect.

    [00:38:12] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And that leads me to mention autoimmune, because this is where a lot of hormones get affected. And as your audience knows, autoimmune means the body is having a revved up attack on it, part of itself, for reasons unclear, but it's a hyper inflammation state. Let's list a few of those. Rheumatoid arthritis, Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

    [00:38:35] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: There are other autoimmune diseases and if you do inflammatory blood tests, you'll see the inflammation system is in high gear. We're not sure always why that is, but it is. Some infections are known for their hyper inflammation. Lyme's disease is one I know you've had guests on before about Lyme's disease.

    [00:38:55] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And another well known one that is known for inflammation is, [00:39:00] COVID 19. It's a very inflammatory virus, and a lot of these long COVID syndromes do have significant continued hyper inflammatory states involved. So we are seeing that these types of problems respond well to suppressing and controlling, we use the word immunomodulating, the inflammation system, where the regenerative biologics do work.

    [00:39:27] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: towards declining those problems and those symptoms.

    [00:39:31] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Okay, wow, such great information. I would be remiss if I didn't ask because I know people are wanting to know about vampire facelift and beauty applications. Would you like to talk about that?

    [00:39:45] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I would. This is probably a little bit on the more fun end of things we do.

    [00:39:50] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And most of the people we see have a problem and we want to help them with a problem. But we also have enjoyed helping people want to not only feel [00:40:00] better and be healthier, but feel better about looking better. So there are currently two cosmetic procedures that we have. One is, and as your audience knows, a vampire facial is PRP.

    [00:40:13] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And we talked about PRP earlier for joints, where you can draw your, uh, have your blood drawn from your own veins, spun in a centrifuge, and pull out the growth factors and the platelets, and inject them into the face. So it gives more growth factors to the face to help tighten the collagen. I like to skip over that and go to the high octane stuff and that's to use the wide draw of the blood.

    [00:40:37] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: When you change the oil in your car, you don't put the old oil back in it. So we use the stem cell biologics and micro inject the face. to stimulate the epidermal cells in dermal cells rather to stimulate, make more collagen, more elastin, get some tightening and youthful radiant glow because of the [00:41:00] improvement in the cells.

    [00:41:02] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I think you might notice this as an OB GYN in your pregnant patients. They, don't they often say, Oh, my skin is so good while they're pregnant because they're getting all these youthful growth factors from the womb circulating in the maternal bloodstream. They're getting a Yeah, they're getting a dose.

    [00:41:18] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Radiance is real. You can look at a pregnant woman and see that their hormones are really on point and their stem cells and how about hair

    [00:41:30] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: regrowth? You're also using it for that? That was the other one. And I am, I'm also a recipient of that. So we do the same thing. I've had, I had a bald spot and I've had three scalp injections and it's because of the lighting and things, you probably can't see it, but I'll do some social media posts with some befores and afters.

    [00:41:50] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And it's, I've been able to help people with thinning, thinning hair. You have to have follicles. You have to have some hair. I can't take a bald person and with the current. state of [00:42:00] things. Now, when we talk about the future of the going backwards in the lineage of stem cells, there are some things coming down the pike and I have some colleagues and friends working on that.

    [00:42:09] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: But right now this is for people who do have some follicles and I'm sure your audience knows when your hormones start to decline, that's And you have a longstanding inflammation, you, the follicles are sensitive, they, that's like when someone is stressed and they lose hair, it's because the inflammation in their body from the nerve is seen in the areas of symptom, where they become symptomatic, that might be psoriasis.

    [00:42:33] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: It's where they have dry skin, it might be in the scalp with the follicles, it might be in other areas. We have patients with dry eye syndrome who maybe have had LASIK procedures and we've injected, we talk about glands, we inject the meibomian glands in the eyelids. to help improve the glandular function and I've had some limited benefit there and we're still figuring out how to do that best.

    [00:42:57] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Okay.

    [00:42:58] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Before we wrap up, [00:43:00] we must talk about longevity and then I know you've got that gift for them that's going to help them to know some things that they can start doing now to help with anti aging. But what does the data look like and treatments to increase longevity with stem cells?

    [00:43:17] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: We don't have enough.

    [00:43:18] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: Long term data to answer that scientifically, but we do have something called biological age tests, and I think it'd be mentioned this, there are a few different kinds on the market, but basically it's a test that looks at either the markers in the bloodstream and or markers inside the cell bloodstream, of course, is outside the cell, and these markers are associated with certain age groups.

    [00:43:42] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: So we can do a blood test and estimate The biological age of someone as opposed to your calendar age, because I know at my last birthday, I turned 58, but I can do a biological age test and it has a different number and you can make lifestyle changes or do things in that [00:44:00] number adjust. You can affect your own rate of aging by taking your own anti aging journey and doing things about it.

    [00:44:07] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: And we have some studies that show improvement in the, in these biological age tests. With the use of IV regenerative biologics, so at least at the cellular level, which is where aging really does happen, there is scientific evidence to show reduced inflammatory markers and age related markers. And

    [00:44:28] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: I know people are wondering, what's that test and where can I get it?

    [00:44:32] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: It has to be ordered by a doctor like me, and I do a lot of Zoom consultations, so if anyone in your audience is listening, this is an additional holiday gift, is if they call and mention your name, I'll do an introductory Zoom or phone. I prefer zoom, but phone consultation and we can go over their aging status and see where they are and see if we can make some tweaks in many [00:45:00] different areas and talk about the biological age tests.

    [00:45:03] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: I'm happy to do that. But you have to mention your name and they heard us here.

    [00:45:08] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Okay. So Merry Christmas to you, listener, you can call Dr. Jeff's office mentioned you heard him on Dr. Kieran's podcast and you can get some one on one time with Dr. Jeff and find out more about your health. I think that's a great place to end.

    [00:45:30] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: It sounds this is such a wonderful topic. It's a Such I guess it's kind of the wild west of medicine, but I think it is the future of medicine in many ways. So I think it's very valuable information. Thank you so much for sharing it. You have this wonderful gift that you're giving everyone to help them understand some things that they can start doing now for their health.

    [00:45:56] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: We'll have the link in the show notes. Do you want to tell them about [00:46:00] what that is? And then also all the places they can

    [00:46:02] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: find you online. Thank you so much. Yes, if you go to the and I forget the word the young again method. com slash longevity There's a a free guide on some of the anti aging supplements You should start or if you're not already on and if you do schedule Some time to meet with me we can expand on that for you as well as customize it for the individual Please follow us at we celebrate is the name of the business.

    [00:46:28] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: R e c e f l e b r a t e That's our website. That's our Instagram. That's our TikTok. That's our YouTube. We have lots of fun stuff. Follow us and send me a comment on Instagram. If you're on Facebook, also send me a comment and say hi and introduce yourself. We like to meet new people all the time. Awesome.

    [00:46:48] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Thank you so much, Dr. Jeff, for your brave journey. It is always a brave journey for any physician to go off the beaten path [00:47:00] of What we're taught and to do something innovative and new and courageous. So thank you for saying yes to that because you're going to help a lot of people. I know you already are.

    [00:47:11] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: I really appreciate it. And I appreciate you sharing your journey and

    [00:47:14] Dr. Jeffrey Gross: expertise with us today. Thank you so much for having me. It was my pleasure and honor. And thank you for

    [00:47:20] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: joining me for another episode of the hormone prescription. Stem cells are super exciting and the indications are growing. Access is growing and availability.

    [00:47:35] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: So. I know you learned something that's going to inspire you today. I look forward to knowing what that is. Reach out to me on social media and let me know. And if you want to take Dr. Jeff up on his very generous holiday offer, please do so. We will have all the links in the show notes to his free gift and to how you can reach out to him and contact him.

    [00:47:58] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Until [00:48:00] next week, peace, love, and hormones, y'all. Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormone and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe.

    [00:48:22] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription. com where we have some free gifts for you. And you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you.

    [00:48:44] Dr. Kyrin Dunston: Talk to you soon.

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  • In our latest episode, "Simple Detox and Steps to Become Energetically Efficient," we are excited to have special guest Kristin Rowell, founder and CEO of Energetically Efficient, a wellness and nutrition company that helps high achieving individuals regain their energy and transform their lives. Kristin, a former business litigator, shares her journey of becoming a Functional Nutritional Therapy Practitioner and how she guides her clients to become positive, energetic, motivated, fit, and high-vibrational humans. During the episode, Kristin dives deep into the importance of detoxification and the significance of focusing on toxins in our food, water, air, and everyday products. As an expert in wellness and nutrition, she explains how clients can optimize their energy levels by understanding their unique physiology and biochemistry. This includes a detailed discussion on hormones, adrenals, and digestive health.

    Key takeaways from this episode include:

    - The significance of detoxification in our lives- How to identify and eliminate toxins around us- The essential role of hormones, adrenals, and digestive health in optimizing energy levels- Understanding our unique physiology and biochemistry for better overall health Get ready to learn some transformative simple detox tips and strategies for becoming energetically efficient with Kristin Rowell on The Hormone Prescription Podcast hosted by Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast for more insightful episodes and expert guests.

    Happy listening!

    Speaker 1 (00:00):

    “If you don't sacrifice for what you want, what you want becomes the sacrifice.” Jay Shetty, stay tuned. As a former business litigator turned functional, nutritional therapy practitioner, badass, Kristin Raul shares with you why you need to detox, how to do it, what human design can do for you, and how to get on your right path in life.

    Speaker 2 (00:26):

    So the big question is how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunton. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Speaker 1 (01:19):

    Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today. You are gonna love my guest today. She really is a powerhouse. Kristin Rowell, she's a former business litigator who followed her inner intuition. You're gonna hear how that unfolded into a new path in life where she actually helps women to create the health that they love. And she's very inspirational in terms of finding your authentic voice and getting on your right path in life. You're gonna hear her story, but let's start with detoxing and making it super simple. Sometimes we clinicians can make it super complicated and sometimes it takes someone who comes from a non-medical background who just wants to know, okay, that's great complicated information, but how do I do this practically for myself in everyday life to show us the way? And she really has created a really easy framework.

    Speaker 1 (02:24):

    You're gonna love what she has to say. It's super simple and super doable, and we're just gonna talk about why you need to do it, how to do it super simply, and you're gonna wanna do it. And then she's also very inspirational in terms of getting on your right path in life. Many women go into one path early on in their lives, whether it's motherhood or career, whatever it may look like. And then at midlife and beyond, we start feeling like there's something more that we wanna explore in terms of the gifts we have to offer in terms of what we wanna contribute to life in terms of what we wanna experience in life. And so it really is the time when we get to unpack those dreams, unpack our authentic selves, and figure out what is next for us. So I'll tell you a little bit about her and then we'll get started.

    Speaker 1 (03:22):

    Kristen Raul is a former business litigator, turned functional nutritional therapy practitioner, badass. She helps high achieving, stressed out professionals transform by losing weight, increasing their energy, and becoming more efficient as the founder and CEO of energetically efficient. The clients who hire Kristin are ready for transformational change and she works closely with them to guide them on their journey to becoming positive, energetic, motivated, fit, highly vibrational humans. She has served on boards, she's spoken all over the country. She has a long list of certifications and accomplishments. We talk about this in the episode and please help me welcome Kristin to the show.

    Speaker 3 (04:05):

    Thank you so much for having me.

    Speaker 4 (04:07):

    So you are a powerhouse, physically, mentally, emotionally. You're a former business litigator. Now you're a functional nutritional therapy practitioner. You have awards and competitions. There's so many topics that you could talk about to bless our women with today. And everybody should know that. Kristin and I were talking before the show <laugh> trying to decide how we gonna narrow this down? 'cause I wanna make it very specific and actionable for you. And one of my new passions is human design, which she's passionate about too. So I wanna get that in there. So I thought that we would really focus on nutritional detoxification 'cause we've talked a lot about detoxification, but we talk about a lot of supplements and you all know coffee enemas are like my favorite, but maybe you wanna know a more practical way, Dr. Kyrin, like, how can I do this and just tweak how I eat? And so why don't we just start there, but welcome. I'm so glad to have you here.

    Speaker 3 (05:09):

    Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. And I absolutely love not only human design, but also the topic of nutritional detoxification. And so I have been detoxifying my body nutritionally through just real food on and off, whether quarterly, twice a year or annually for over 20 years. So I have a tremendous amount of experience in it. And when I did my first detox, I was in my twenties. Here I am now at 47, and I really didn't know what I was doing. I didn't understand the importance of it other than this sounds like something that's an interesting challenge. And so I've iterated what I've done for detoxification over the years. And now I take myself quarterly, just once a quarter, I take myself through a two week cleanse. Okay? So it's not a bunch of supplements, it's not a juice fast, it's not cleansing in that way.

    Speaker 3 (06:00):

    It's really how do we eat the right foods? How do we consume the foods that contain the nutrients to support our body's phase one and phase two detoxification pathways? So that's really what it's all about. So for example, and I'm sure you know this, the sulfation pathway is part of your detox to phase two pathways. So in order to make sure you're supporting that particular pathway, we would need to eat foods that contain sulfur. So those would be our eggs, onion, garlic, our daikon radish, and those will enhance the sulfation pathway. So really when I go through this, and I'm happy to go down any avenue that we want to here, but when I take myself through this two week cleanse, and I do this of course with clients as well, it's about how do we get out all the things that detract our body from detox?

    Speaker 3 (06:47):

    How do we take those foods out of our system so that our body can do its natural detoxification, but it's always trying to do? And then how do we add in the foods that will support those pathways so that detoxification can be maximized? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And one other easy example is many people may not know that when you're pummeling your body with a phase two detox, which is very supportive for your liver, you are going through large quantities of glutathione. So it's really important to consume, for example, the amino acid cysteine, the amino acid methionine, some of these amino acids that we get from animal protein foods to actually help our body make more glutathione so that the detox can do its thing better. Yeah,

    Speaker 4 (07:28):

    This is great Kristen. So let's back up one step. And I know some people are saying, do I need to do a detox? Of course, if they're listening to me long enough, they know the answer to that <laugh>. But you know, when I practice regular gynecology, people would ask me all the time, do I need to do a detox? And what was I trained to say was, no, your liver takes care of it. And that's just, we have so much trash coming into us now. We have to be doing a detox. And I do recommend at least quarterly, and that's for maintenance. If you've never done a major full body all systems detox, you probably need to go to do a good three or six months. How does somebody know if they're toxic? And they need to do a

    Speaker 3 (08:12):

    Fantastic question? Because you're right, many at any level of education, for most people, this isn't something that you're taught would might be a good idea for you. So the kinds of signs and symptoms that I tell people to look for in terms of whether they need detoxification are many, but I'll just list a few of them. It would be if you're getting skin issues like acne or rashes on your body, it's if you have a hard time losing weight, if you notice that you have, let's say, and this is in more severe cases, swollen lymph nodes around your body where you actually can feel your lymph, that would be another thing. If you are someone who doesn't sweat that often, so you're not getting mm-hmm, <affirmative> detoxification out. So if you're not a sauna person, if you're not doing any sort of heated classes where you're really getting your sweat on, I assure you all of the toxins that you accumulate in your body are not coming out just through your urine and your feces because people's systems get so sluggish.

    Speaker 3 (09:05):

    If you are someone also who doesn't ever engage in or doesn't know anything about breath work, because breath is of course one of our other detoxification pathways. So if you're not sweating and you're not doing breath work, those things alone may make you a candidate for detoxification. If you also notice just other symptoms I say in the body and they can range from, I feel tired all the time and I don't have a lot of energy and I don't know why I am reaching for caffeine every day and I need caffeine all of the time just to function, that's a bad sign. If you're someone who is easily intoxicated from drinking wine or other alcohol, that's a sign that your liver is pretty stagnant. And that might mean you need to detox. So those are just some Dr. Kean and I'm guessing that there's others that you can just as well.

    Speaker 4 (09:48):

    All right. I'm thinking dark circles under your eyes, puffiness in your face, hands or feet. Yes. And, and basically if, if you're a human on the planet in 2023, you need to be detoxing. Everybody needs to be detoxing

    Speaker 3 (10:03):

    <Laugh>. I'm so glad you said that 'cause I completely agree with you. But you're right. It's also those dark circles under the eyes. Those things are huge signs as well. And a lot of people don't realize, okay, yes, our liver is our hardest working organ and it's performing over 500 functions in our body, but rarely do we ever stop and give it some love. I would say we need to give our liver some love. It is a, and most images that you will see of the human body, it is always painted in this bright red color. It is the color of love. It's, it does so much for us. And so it's so good to pause, I think quarterly and really be gentle with your liver. Take out, especially now. And and I practice this as well. I generally eat what I consider to be a well-formulated low carbohydrate lifestyle. So I am eating, you know, somewhere between 50 and as much as 200 grams of carbohydrates depending on the day. But of course, a standard American diet, most people are eating more than 300 carbohydrates. And so what people don't realize is just like your liver has to filter all of the toxins in your body, which means that plastic thing that you heated up food in the microwave. No, don't do that. That plastic water bottle that you drank out of, no thank you,

    Speaker 4 (11:12):

    No <laugh>,

    Speaker 3 (11:13):

    All of these plastic offenders. But that doesn't count the stuff we're breathing in. That doesn't count so many other toxins. All of this crappy lotion that I see people putting on their body, these offending soaps, other fragrances, every perfume you use, ladies, the makeup that we wear, all of these things put toxins into our body. And so all of those toxins have to be filtered through our liver. But so is all of the fat that we consume. So when I take clients through nutritional detoxification or when I do it for myself, I'm actually not recommending during that two week period that they're consuming something that's keto or that they're eating generally low carb. I want them to eat a lot of fiber. We add beans, we're doing cruciferous vegetables, which are supportive of detoxification. We're doing the dark leafy greens, which are supportive of detoxification. We're including a bunch of liver healing foods.

    Speaker 3 (12:05):

    And that might be artichokes, asparagus, celery, dandelion root tea, nutritional yeast, beets. All of these things are fantastic for your liver. So you're really saying to yourself each day, how can I get a bunch of these high quality detoxification supporting nutrient foods in my body each day? And how can I get out the noise, the processed sugar, the processed carbohydrates? Actually, I take out a diary for most people for a little bit of time. 'cause Dairy can be really offensive and obviously very inflammatory, even though I do love it. But I take that out for a period of time. And then we really just work to balance the body. And one of the best things I, and I know you know about nutritional detoxification, is it really helps to balance your hormones. It's fantastic for clearing excess estrogen in the body, which so many people are walking around with men and women. By the way, estrogen is not supplied to women, which I'm sure your listeners well know. So those, all of those reasons are why I think anyone who's living in a, as a human in 2023 could benefit from it.

    Speaker 4 (13:06):

    Thank you for bringing that up. If you are having estrogen dominance problems, and this is pretty much every perimenopausal woman, many women, so that's, if you're over 40, but many women over 20, I think that we should just say we're an estrogen nation. We're just swimming in estrogen. Most people, if you have period problems, fibroids, endometriosis if you're overweight, you have estrogen dominance. So you, one of the number one things you can do, Kristin, is exactly right, is do a detox and get your liver cleaned out because these estrogens are cleaned out through your liver, they're dumped into your gastrointestinal tract and they go out in your poop. So if you're not pooping, you need to be getting 20, 30, 40 grams of fiber a day at least to bind that estrogen and get it out. So thank you for bringing that up.

    Speaker 3 (13:56):

    Well, and thank you for bringing up the bowel movement piece of things, because I think so few people realize it's not just because you eat food, it's not a guarantee that it just seamlessly in the next day or two comes out the other end. A lot of the fecal matter and the toxicity in our body, you guys, if we're not having the really good healthy fats, if we're not hydrated, if we don't consume enough fiber, if we are super stressed out and we are always in a sympathetic state so that we can't have a bowel movement, and I have lots of clients like this, I'm sure you do as well. Yeah. In those circumstances now, these toxins that are trying to make their way through our intestinal tract can get stuck on the inside walls of our colon. And what happens over time, if they don't make their way out, is your colon, the large intestine will reabsorb that toxic material. So now there, it goes back into your bloodstream. And that may happen in more severe cases, but it really is a consequence of not consuming the fiber, having the healthy fats and hydrating enough to actually allow those toxins to make it all their way through the digestive system.

    Speaker 4 (14:59):

    I've been having this visual as we're having this conversation. I grew up in New York City and there was a time when the sanitation workers went on strike, right? So the trash, they put out the trash every day on the curb in New York, and then these big trash trucks come and they pick it up and they ship it off the island. But then they went on strike and the trash was piling up and oh my gosh, it was like this summer and it stunk. And I'm thinking, if you're not supporting your liver, then that's basically what's happening is the pi, the trash is piling up and it's stinking like Manhattan did when I was a kid. And the trash department, sanitation department went on strike. So we've talked about some. That's a good analogy.

    Speaker 3 (15:43):

    That's a great

    Speaker 4 (15:43):

    Analogy. And if you're not pooping, that's what's happening. Yes. Or it's, a lot of people would say, oh, I don't wanna drink water. We gotta talk about water, Kristen, they say, I don't like the taste of water. I don't drink water. And I'd say, well, not drinking enough water. 'cause You are 60 to 70% water and it helps to flush you out. It's like going to the bathroom all day in your toilet and never flushing <laugh>. And then they go, okay, Kyrin, I get it. I'll drink the water <laugh>.

    Speaker 3 (16:13):

    I love that. That's, I might steal that from you. It's so true. It's so true. And the other thing is with the hydration piece, and I know we can get to this, but ladies, if you want glowing, gorgeous, young looking skin, drink your water, it's so valuable in terms of hydrating your cells because it really provides the hydration that allows our skin to say, stay supple. So that's just one more reason that we wanna make sure we hydrate. Yeah.

    Speaker 4 (16:37):

    And just for everybody listening, if you didn't see Dana Cohen, we have a great two great interviews on the podcast about hydration and the specifics of it and types of water. And so you definitely wanna check that out, but you're absolutely right, Kristen. Alright, so what does your two week food detox regimen look like? I know everybody's gonna wanna low. No. 'cause You look amazing. You tell everyone all about all the IS fitness, bodybuilding competitions, you've won. So you're doing something right. So yeah, they're gonna wanna know about it, yeah. Yeah.

    Speaker 3 (17:11):

    I'm a professional bodybuilder and I'm a natural figure competitor. And I was Miss Natural Minnesota in 2018, which sounds so silly to even say, but it's in this fitness competition area. And I've also run 25 marathons. So I've, over the course of many years, really worked on dialing in my nutrition to optimally support, not just athletic performance, but because of what we do for a living in terms of it being very busy. And we work with busy professionals who work with women who are busy. It's also about cognitive function and having lasting energy throughout the day. So you're not having these blood sugar dips, you're actually able to sleep well and you're high functioning. So what my detoxification protocol looks like, just if people are like, oh my God, this is so overwhelming, where do I start? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. This is what I call my Cliff notes version of how to do it.

    Speaker 3 (17:55):

    So I'd say the hardest part for most people, and I'm just gonna get this out there, is I, when I detox and I tell everyone this, I really recommend that you take out the caffeine, the coffee, because caffeine really does interfere with your phase one detox pathways. And if you're gonna go on this venture to really detoxify, we gotta get the caffeine out. So I went through my detoxification just a couple weeks ago, and I had a bad headache for a couple days because I had been on coffee after being off of it for a year. I had been doing some traveling, and I was in a country where they had really good coffee. So anyways, I started drinking again. So for me, the crash was pretty hard, but once I got through those first two, three days, I was fine. It literally only takes a couple of days to break up with it.

    Speaker 3 (18:38):

    So no coffee, no sugar of any kind. I recommend that people don't do any packaged, even protein bars, even if it seems like the cleanest, healthiest protein bar. Let's just get all of that out. I'm just asking you to do it for two weeks. So also no dairy for certainly for a period of time. And then no refined grains of any kind. It's really a lot of vegetables, a few fruits and lean animal proteins, and then a lot of different supportive vegetables. So those are the nos. Those are like no caffeine, no sugar, no refined foods, no mold on your fruit is another one I forgot about. No protein bars, those kinds of things. And by the way, also no excess fat. So no bacon, no ribeyes, even those things, I'm not saying you're bad for you, but just not when you're cleansing. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>.

    Speaker 3 (19:23):

    So then, okay, what do we eat? If we're taking all that off the table, what actually do we consume? So I recommend that people do something in the cruciferous category every day. So that means broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, or Brussels sprouts. So anything in that category. 'cause Cruciferous is great to support detox. Also, something in the citrus category, orange, lemon, lime, dark leafy greens. So this could be everything from the new band dangled micro greens that I'm just loving, that I keep finding at Whole foods. I love microgreens, arugula, water crests, Swiss shard, mustard greens, parsley, all of those things that you don't normally incorporate every day. Those are another awesome category to add. And then the sulfur rich foods that I mentioned before, so this would be your eggs, onion, garlic, or even dican radish are rich in sulfur. Those are the top four that I think of.

    Speaker 3 (20:12):

    And then there's just a few more categories. It's the liver healing foods, colon cleansing foods, and then our lean proteins. And then we just go pretty light on the healthy fat. So in the liver healing category, it's some of those foods I mentioned before, which are artichoke, asparagus, beets, celery, nutritional yeast, dandelion root tea, even whey protein or other high quality proteins, pea proteins, powders that literally have very minimal ingredients like just the protein isolate and maybe some stevia or monk fruit. And then in the colon cleansing category. And this category really helps add to the fiber and get the stool out of your body. These are things like apples, carrots, hairs, organic ground, flaxseed, cilium husk, organic chia seeds. Those are excellent sources of fiber. And also beans. I forgot about the beans. I absolutely love using a half of cup of organic beans every day during the detox because it's the highest quality source of soluble fiber and soluble fiber when it emulsifies with that bile that's being produced by our liver, and it mixes with that soluble fiber, it can really help to pull toxins through our digestive tract and get it out of the body.

    Speaker 3 (21:22):

    And then last, but certainly not least, is the lean proteins and just a couple servings of healthy fat. I tell people to back off on the fat a fair amount just because we wanna give our liver a break. But the lean proteins, of course, can include the wild caught shrimp, the chicken breasts, the grass-fed ground beef. And if you're not doing animal protein, which I recommend that people do, if they can tolerate it, if they aren't doing that, then a high quality Tempe source or spirulina or something else to get amino acids in, or even do an amino acid supplement because amino acids are so great for detoxification and amino acids are so great for hormone health in general. Right. And I'm sure you and I could talk for hours about that topic, but I just, I love helping people understand. It's one of the reasons that for some people, if they practice a vegetarian or vegan diet for long enough and they don't supplement with enough amino acids, they will find that their serotonin levels dip very low and they feel depressive symptoms. It's just this isn't like an opinion. These are just facts of how the body works. And I'm sure you answer to that as well. Yeah,

    Speaker 4 (22:23):

    I mean, I think they've got, you really laid out the foods, eat these foods in various varieties for two weeks, and you've really done a great detox. If you're pooping and you're drinking and you're peeing and you're sleeping and getting sunshine and going outdoors and all the things, so maybe dive into the amino acids. So many of us women over 40, even under 40, we are amino acid deficient. We don't eat enough protein. We don't digest the protein that we're eating because we eat on the go. We eat standing up or we don't eat enough. So our digestive enzymes are down <laugh>. And then we don't extract the amino acids. And amino acids are the backbone of all your hormones. So if you're having hormonal poverty, hormonal deficiency, then that's one of the things you need to look at. It's also the backbone of all our neurotransmitters. So what amino acids would you suggest that they supplement with? How do they know?

    Speaker 3 (23:21):

    So for the amino acids that I recommend for supplementation, I mean, I take different amino acids for supplements that are particular brands. I take body health or key on aminos when I need them. But in terms of the overall amino acid profile, just for context, we of course have 20 amino amino acids, and nine of those are essential. So the others are non-essential. But of the nine essential amino acids, and I, I care about this topic a lot simply because I'm a professional bodybuilder. So I really care about what's the amino acid profile for helping me to build muscle, right? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And what we need to build muscle is we can't just have whatever amino acids without any intention around it. It really has to be those nine essential amino acids. So those include three branch chain amino acids, which are isoleucine, leucine, and valine.

    Speaker 3 (24:06):

    And we wanna have those inadequate amounts. We wanna specifically make sure that leucine is 2.5 grams or more combined with the other eight essential amino acids to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. So those would be in addition to the iso, leucine, leucine and veiling. Those are things like methionine. You'll find in a lot of these animal products that we eat cystine in the non-essential category, what you'll find more in collagen are amino acids like glycine. And that's great for hair, skin, and nails. But my primary recommendation when it comes to the amino acid profile of foods is you really can be brainless about it if you stick to animal proteins because animal proteins really contain that high quality benefit. And the other thing I tell people about amino acids is to think of it this way, let's put ourselves a hundred, 200, 300 years ago, and you've probably heard this term, most humans when they ate, they would eat something called a nose to tail way of eating.

    Speaker 3 (25:02):

    They would eat the entire animal. I'm sure everyone remembers, perhaps they had parents or grandparents or great-grandparents that ate things like liver and onions. We ate more organ meats back then. And now what we're so consumed with all the time is eating just muscle meat. We only eat the chicken breast. We don't eat chicken liver, we only eat lean steak like filet mignon. We don't eat beef, heart, or kidney. And so what that means is we're getting sort of an imbalanced amino acid profile in our bodies that's inconsistent with what nature intended. So the way to think about this in terms of supplementation is if you are someone who just eats the chicken breast and not the chicken liver or the filet mignon and not the beef, heart or kidney, then I really recommend that you do consume a high quality collagen supplement because collagen is a kin to those organ meats that we just aren't eating anymore.

    Speaker 3 (25:56):

    So I always say, if you're going to eat muscle meat, think of the muscle meat, like a whey protein shake. Muscle meat is very analogous to whey when it comes to the powders. And then the organ meats are very analogous to collagen when it comes to the powders. So oftentimes for my clients, if I'm running a meal plan for them and they wanna have a protein shake, I may ask them to combine whey or let's say it's pea if they can't consume whey protein with collagen so that they get that full comprehensive amino acid profile. Does that make sense?

    Speaker 4 (26:25):

    Yes. And that's great advice because you're so right. Most people don't eat organ meats. Of course. I love chicken liver.

    Speaker 3 (26:33):

    I do Joel

    Speaker 4 (26:34):

    Most. Yeah, most people don't. And so that's very sage advice. Thank you for offering that. I know that your time is limited, and I think that your path has been unique in that you were a litigator and now you help people transform their health. Yes. And you've done so many, I mean, marathons and competitions. So you obviously have a drive and you have a gift for transformation. I love this quote you shared with me before we started from Jay Shetty. If you don't sacrifice for what you want, what you want becomes the sacrifice. Yes. And I talked to so many women at midlife who really have put their lives on hold. They're not in jobs that they love anymore. Maybe their kids have grown up and left, but they don't know what's next for them. And you really have exemplified jumping from one lane, not only to another lane, but to a completely different highway. So can you talk a little bit about how that transformation took place that might inform somebody listening if you wanna weave human design in there? I won't be mad at you. 'cause I love human design, <laugh>, <laugh>.

    Speaker 3 (27:51):

    Yes. No, I love it. I will. I can do that for

    Speaker 4 (27:53):

    Sure. Yeah. And maybe that played a part in it. 'cause I know that was huge for me, a real inflection point. So yeah, I would, we would love to hear about that because I know you have to go in a few minutes.

    Speaker 3 (28:03):

    Oh sure. No problem. Thank you so much. So really as I think about my transition, I was someone who believed I was going to be a lawyer until I retired. I loved it. I thought try a lawyering was the best, most fun thing you could do. And there was nothing about it that I was not one of these female lawyers who got super burnt out, who wanted to leave, who was eye-rolling every day at her job. Now I certainly look forward to my work much more than I did then. So maybe I was doing a little, running a little bit of a program at the time. The very short version on why I left is that in the fall of 2017, after I got out of what I consider to be a fairly toxic relationship, I finally discovered and started practicing meditation. And meditation was really my answer to everything.

    Speaker 3 (28:46):

    And I know for many people when they hear that, they're like, oh, don't tell me I have to meditate. I can't meditate. It's so hard. My brain is going all the time and I'm thinking of the dishes and the laundry and my to-do list and everything. And I always say, that's because you're not good at it yet. You just need to practice. And like everything. I wasn't amazing at my job on the first day. I certainly wasn't an amazing lawyer on the first day, but I got really good at it because I was practicing. And that's really what's required for meditation. So when I tell you that I started meditating in 2017 and throughout the course of 2018 and into early 2019, it became these very obvious nudges from the universe about the fact that this was going to be my new path. I was like, wait a second, what?

    Speaker 3 (29:28):

    I'm gonna leave the practice of law? But it became very clear, there were little signs and synchronicities. Kieran, I was in a meeting with clients who were my clients as a lawyer. I was lawyering for them. And we'd get done talking about the case and details. And then one would say to me, say, Kristen, I know you're really fit and you do these comp. I really would love some help with losing weight. Do you think you could help me? So I was starting to notice, well, this is weird here. I've been practicing for 15, 16 years and that kind of thing had not happened before. But it's almost as though clients in this new practice, this new business, were starting to present themselves to me, which was really exciting. So every time I would be in meditation, I would get these little nudges or I would feel this pull.

    Speaker 3 (30:11):

    In fact, my business name, which is called energetically efficient, came to me during a meditation in 2018. And I thought, well, that's a cool name. I wonder what that's for. <Laugh> <laugh>. I just thought, okay, I'll write that down. Maybe I'll need it someday. But I wasn't aware of the fact that there was this bigger process in motion that was pushing me in a different direction. And so when I finally made the decision to leave in the summer of 2019, people often asked me, and they still do, was it scary? Were you scared? And I can honestly say this, that the answer is no. And it was because I was so confident that I was being guided in this new path. And I felt so confident that if I bet on myself, I can't go wrong, that it wasn't scary and it was just exciting.

    Speaker 3 (30:52):

    And building this business ever since has been so fun. And so to go to your human design point, this was something I'd probably heard about sometime several years ago, but you know how you don't ever absorb the information until you're ready, right? Yep. There'll be a lot of people listening to this that'll hear detox 10 times and they'll be like, yeah, maybe someday. And all of a sudden, they might listen to the episode again and be like, wow, I need to do that. So that was how human design was for me. And when I first looked at my human design chart, I went, wait, what? I'm a projector. 'cause That was surprising to me. And here, what projectors are here for is to make the world more efficient. I mean, my business is energetically efficient. How do you efficiently use your energy? I like all these light bulbs.

    Speaker 3 (31:36):

    And fireworks started going off in my brain because I couldn't believe how much I was already living my design. So now the big transition that I'm in with human design, and I'd be so curious for you as well, because I'm a six two splenic projector, is I've learned and I've finally accepted about myself that I am not someone who can go with meetings all day long, which is what I did for so much of my life. And I didn't realize I was working against my design. You know, I did it as a lawyer. Then I started this business and it had clients all day long from morning to night. And many times I'd feel exhausted at the end of the night. And so I'm really trying to lean into my design and create more space on my calendar for creativity and just having my programs and offerings be where people come to me instead of me being pushy and salesy. It works much better as a projector if you go with the strategy of being invited. So now I'm curious what you are. Yeah,

    Speaker 4 (32:29):

    And just I'll tell you, but for everyone listening, if you haven't heard me talking about human design, we've done, we've talked about it in a few podcast episodes now, and we're incorporating it to all, into all my programs. It's a a system of how your energy body works, right? No more are we seven centered chakra beings. We have nine energy centers. And you have a unique design that pretty much only you have based on the high degree of specificity and detail that's available. But in general, you have a type and an authority and a strategy for how you're supposed to be making decisions and living your life. And if you're living out of alignment with that, that can affect your hormones, it can affect every organ in your body, it can affect your health. Health. And I too was living as a generator go do.

    Speaker 4 (33:20):

    And I naturally, and meditation was a part of my story too. It's so funny when you were talking about <laugh> that people can't meditate 'because they it. It's a new skill. I had this picture of who of us, if our kid, we tried to teach 'em how to tie their shoe, and the first time they did, they went, I can't do it. I'll never tie my shoe <laugh>, right? We would go, well honey, you're just doing it for the first time. Be patient with yourself. Right? How many times did your child have to tie to tie their shoe until they got it right? Yes. So it's the same with meditation. And that was a part of my story. And then I intuitively, before I knew about human design, started doing it differently. And then of course somebody mentioned human design. And I'm like, yeah, I'll look into that.

    Speaker 4 (34:05):

    Never did until years later. And then found out I'm a five one projector, emotional projector. And it really was such validation and gave me permission to really lean into what I'm here for, which yes, to make the world more efficient and guide others. And so that's why we're doing what we're doing. And I want everyone to hear this because I know that some of you are struggling with the path that you're on in life and you're looking for answers and you're trying to figure it out with your mind. You can't figure out your soul's purpose with your mind. That's not what it's for. Correct. You need to follow your intuition. If human design sounds like it might resonate with you, do it. If you have tried meditating and you haven't gotten anywhere, try again. Try a different type of meditation. Follow your intuition. One of the women in my programs the other day during our group coaching call said, you know, I really couldn't do the meditation even focusing on a mantra.

    Speaker 4 (35:03):

    So I started singing the mantra out loud, and I can meditate when I do that. See? I said, brilliant. You're listening to yourself. You're listening to your soul. Yes. And so that's what this is all about. Like we're all on an energetic frequency. What's gonna work for you is gonna resonate with you. You hear Kristen talking about detox, you hear us talking about the sanitation department not flushing your toilet and something's, if it's called to you, you're gonna be going get your cruciferous vegetables and your amino acids and you're gonna do the deal. And if it's not resonating with you, then it's not for you. So I'm all about restoring that innate wisdom that we have in our bodies and our souls and our spirits. And so what's like, now that you're on this new path?

    Speaker 3 (35:49):

    It's been so fun. <Laugh>, I just love building a business. It's so I'm largely coaching one-on-one, I'm coaching group classes and masterminds, and then I'm speaking around the country at health conferences and other places as well. I mean, it's awesome for me that there are so many professionals, specifically lawyers for example, who really need to take control of their health and that haven't really prioritized it because they work too much. So that's been a treasure trove of clients for me in particular, simply because they know that I understand the demands of the profession. So that's been really rewarding. So I've just loved it. I get to do it from home, which is so fun. I always say, I started my business and then nine months later, the world shut down and a lot of people decided they need to finally get healthy. So the timing worked out really well, but I just love doing it. I love speaking, I love educating. I love showing people a more efficiently, energetic way to live, which is what we do as projectors.

    Speaker 4 (36:40):

    Yes. So I know you have to go. Let's leave everyone with a Zig Ziglar quote. You shared with me before we started, which I love. You don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great. So call to action everybody. What are you gonna start with? What are you feeling inspired to do after listening to us? There's something that's calling to you. Listen to that nudge and go do the thing. Kristen, please tell everyone where they can find out more about you online and interact with you.

    Speaker 3 (37:13):

    Thank you so much. So my website is energetically efficient, and then I'm most active on Instagram, and my Instagram handle is MN for Minnesota, MN Golden Girl. And I have three golden retrievers, which is where that comes from. I just love them so much. I'm also on LinkedIn under my name Kristen Raul. I have a cookbook that recently came out so they can find out information about that through my Instagram or my website.

    Speaker 4 (37:36):

    Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me, Kristen. It was an absolute pleasure to have you here today.

    Speaker 3 (37:41):

    I just loved it so much. Thanks for having me. And

    Speaker 4 (37:43):

    Thank you for listening to another episode of The Hormone Prescription. I know you're inspired after this conversation. I wanna know what you were inspired to do. Reach out to me on social media and let me know, and have a great week. I'll see you next week. Until then, peace, love, and hormones

    Speaker 2 (38:00):

    Y'all. Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

    ► Download Kristin Rowell's FREE tips on how to be energetically efficient - CLICK HERE.

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  • Welcome to the latest episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast featuring our brilliant guest, Dr. Michelle Veneziano. Dr. Veneziano is an esteemed expert in the field of osteopathic self care and has a deep understanding of the benefits of fascial flow for midlife women. Her unique approach to Cranial Osteopathy not only empowers women with self-healing techniques but also emphasizes the body's innate ability to restore itself. In this episode, we delve into the fascinating world of fascial flow and connection as medicine to heal. Dr. Veneziano shares her wealth of knowledge on the importance of maintaining natural balance and vitality by aligning ourselves with the world around us. Don't miss out on this engaging conversation as we uncover key takeaways for midlife women who can greatly benefit from this holistic approach to health and wellness. You'll learn about:- Dr. Veneziano's specialized approach to Cranial Osteopathy and the healing benefits of fascial flow.- The role of fascial flow and connection in maintaining a balanced, healthy life for midlife women.- Practical advice on incorporating osteopathic self-care techniques into your daily routine.- Personal stories and real-life examples of how fascial flow and connection can improve overall health and well-being. To continue your journey towards optimal health, make sure to hit that subscribe button for The Hormone Prescription Podcast. We have many more insightful episodes coming your way, featuring the latest topics in women's health, wellness, and self-care. Don't miss out on the knowledge, wisdom, and empowerment you deserve!

    Speaker 1 (00:00):

    Feel your body every cell in every moment, and relate to the earth as if she is your dance partner. Dr. Michelle Veneziano. Stay tuned to find out why your fascia may be the key to your healing and your superpower, and why you're not walking correctly.

    Speaker 2 (00:19):

    So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYN, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

    Speaker 1 (01:13):

    Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we talk to Dr. Michelle Veneziano, who's an osteopathic physician and very brilliant and progressive in the approaches that she's helping people work on and master when it comes to health and healing. She is trained and helps people with cranial osteopathy, working with their fascia, changing their body movement and posture and nervous system so that they can ignite their body's innate ability to heal. Yes, your body has an innate ability to heal. Just like if you get cut, all you have to do is cover it so it doesn't get wounded again, and then nature takes care of the rest. Well, your whole body actually functions that way, but most of us aren't aware of the bandaid that we need to be placing on the rest of our body, particularly our fascia, our nervous system, to allow healing to occur.

    Speaker 1 (02:17):

    And sure, you've gotta work on your hormones, you've gotta work on your gut health and your detox and all the things like I like to say. But a big missing piece that even a functional medicine perspective misses, is looking at your fascia. We're gonna talk about why that's super important and how you're walking, how you're connecting above and below how you're connecting to Mother Earth and so many other things that Dr. Michelle really is brilliant when it comes to helping people understand and implement in their lives. So I'll tell you a little bit about her and then we will get started. Dr. Michelle Veneziano is an osteopathic physician and clinical professor who has pioneered osteopathic self-care rooted in cranial osteopathy, a hands-on evidence-based therapeutic practice. That's one of the things I love about her, is she can explain the science behind all of these things that sources both western and eastern philosophies to support the body's ability to heal itself. She has a unique approach and you're gonna love her as much as I love speaking with her. We probably need to do more episodes. She has a lot of resources for you, which we're gonna share at the end of our discussion. And we're gonna talk about walking and relating on the earth as if she's your dance partner. Welcome, Dr. Michelle Veneziano to the show. Thank

    Speaker 3 (03:44):

    You for having me. I'm glad to be

    Speaker 4 (03:45):

    Here. I'm so excited to talk about craniosacral therapy and osteopathic medicine and fascia and un fascial unwinding. This is my new obsession, like I was just telling you. And so I know a lot of people are going, what we're talking about craniosacral what and fascial what <laugh>, but maybe let's start with the basics because I think a lot of people see doctor of osteopathic medicine, they see medical doctor and they don't really know the difference. So can you talk a little bit about <laugh>, the basics? Like what is osteopathy? How does a doctor of osteopathy differ from a medical doctor? What's different about it? And then we'll, mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> go from there.

    Speaker 3 (04:30):

    Osteopath that trained in the US are medical doctors. It's very confusing for patients. I totally sympathize with that. And most of the osteopaths dos people with a DO degree are pretty indistinguishable from MDs. And there's this tiny sliver of our profession that has really devoted, we've devoted ourselves to maintaining the traditional osteopathic principles and practice, which go back to the 18 hundreds actually. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So people might say, oh, my surgeon's a do and I might think that probably means they do surgery and they don't necessarily use their hands or work with the traditional principles. And the thing that's relevant about that is that even though a do may have chosen surgery, there is a foundational principle of more connectedness to sensation, more connectedness to touch. Generally DOS are maybe a little bit more relatable. They're used to being a little bit more intimate in their conversations. So even if your do is an emergency room doctor or you know a gastroenterologist, there's something about DOS that's a little bit more human. And I actually don't want to, there's a lot of MDs also that even practice osteopathy, so it's pretty hard to explain. And I would say the percentage of doss that actually use their hands is very small. So it's hard to find us and we're all different, so it's hard to define what we do.

    Speaker 4 (06:04):

    Let's talk about what you do. So you pioneer a type of self-care that's rooted in cranial osteopathy. Can you talk a little bit about that? You say that it's evidence-based therapeutic practice that sources both western and eastern philosophies to support the body's ability to heal itself. So in plain English, if you were talking to, if I introduced you to my friend Sarah, what would, how would you explain what that means?

    Speaker 3 (06:33):

    Most of what people see osteopathic doctors for is to have our hands on them and solve all of the structural issues and the way that electricity flows through the body. And basically, ultimately it's a reboot, blending all of those things. So they actually arrive in time and space and their subtle body and their physical body come back together when a person is offline or not themselves, not present, not actually in their body. It's like watching a three D movie and having one image. The images aren't together. And so each of us solves that in unique ways. What I'm doing now with the revelation that I had through my own personal experience was that until I figured out what it felt like to almost like a setting on a dial to be in that integrated space, I would get healed. And then I go back out. So I thought, what's wrong with this picture? So many patients are coming, I integrate them and then they gradually dissociate and then at one point they'll come back to be rebooted again. And I, I'm really passionate now about teaching people how to stay in <laugh>. So I say it's, I'm teaching people how to need fewer treatments, how to hold the treatments that they get and how to not need me. And it just feels so much more of a beautiful service and less of a rescuing codependent approach. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> to being a care provider.

    Speaker 4 (08:04):

    So a few things you said in there that I think some people aren't gonna understand. One, you mentioned subtle body. I know some people are scratching their heads going, what is Dr. Michelle talking about? You talked about disassociate. I think some people aren't gonna understand that. Can you, you explain what you meaning?

    Speaker 3 (08:23):

    Yeah. It's time everyone out there in the world to understand what the energy body is. Yes, everything's energy. If you don't get this, you're really gonna be struggling and not having as much fun. So I'm just gonna say it's time to understand energy. There are universities in this country that study what the biofield is, the OR field, the meridians and the chakras. There are maps of these things there, gazillions of studies explaining that we're actually electrical beings. We're electrical first and physical second. And the brilliance of osteopathy is that the brilliance of nature is that form follows function. So if you have a way to work with your own energy body and keep all of those circuits going, that feeds the physical and is, that's how the body heals. So energy comes first, the structure comes second. So when we have this, osteopaths have this, how do they do it?

    Speaker 3 (09:22):

    Something magical happened, I don't get it. And it's so efficient and it goes so deep really quickly because we access that principle. We'll go in and it took me years and years to feel anything. I didn't feel anything. I was that person listening who was like, biofield, what is that <laugh>? I really was, I'm the perfect, I'm the perfect case because of my own trauma and my own density in a body that was pretty shut down from just arriving. In a world that doesn't get these things, it's quite traumatizing for every single person on the planet to not be acknowledged and be able to have a relationship with that subtle aspect of ourselves. And I'm talking about something very basic. Everyone, this is not esoteric or advanced, right? Primitive people would tune into the subtle wave nature of pres of the physical world, didn't know what the weather was doing and where the predators were, and really feel into the land. How do we grow our food here? What are the seasons doing? This is such basic stuff. And the fact that it hasn't really penetrated mainstream ways of living is really concerning to me. You look at the world, things are not going well. I would say this is the reason you tune into your body and you actually know, oh

    Speaker 4 (10:49):

    Yeah, because we think we are flesh and bones and so we don't realize who we really are. And so once you get that, you have this subtle electrical body and that really our physicality follows this subtle body. Everybody needs to be addressing it. People are still going to their HMO doctors and they're not getting that information there. So I think that's why they're not aware. But then you talked about with feeling that they have, they have to dis they dissociate and that you need to bring them back. But helping them to learn how to do this themselves. And so how is this self-care, cranial osteopathy, something that can help people to manage their own subtle body?

    Speaker 3 (11:32):

    I'm gonna really simplify this because I'm an osteopath, okay? But I could be an Ayurvedic doctor, I could be a Chinese medicine doctor. We have different languages for describing the same thing. Okay? How do we connect with the energetic layer of existence? And if we don't do that, the organism of our bodies is going to be in fight or flight on some to some degree. So that's a tie-in to the hormone piece that I, I wanna speak to. And we're also going to feel spiritually, emotionally disconnected. What is this life experience happening? What being in a body is so strange if we don't connect to that deeper. It's almost like when we begin to have an experience as an electrical being and more identifying with that larger aspect of ourselves, we feel things start to make sense and we start to feel like connected to meaning and purpose and that bigger picture that, and most people, they don't have that. And the list of problems that will arise because of that dissociation, that disconnection from our deeper selves is limitless. So people say, how do you solve this? How do you solve that? Get in your body. Feel who you are. So I'm an embodiment teacher. Now I was not in my body, right? I had a whole host of, I could tell you my story for, I've had everything in the book. Please just tell us. I think it would be very instructive. Okay.

    Speaker 3 (13:06):

    Some of us are born maybe more aware and more sensitive as our base nature. And that was me. I arrived in Brooklyn, New York in the sixties and it was very weird. I remember feeling like I lived in an energetic world. I actually remember as a toddler walking down the street and seeing in colors and sort of feelings thing, feeling I got a lot of information that was bigger and different than what people were saying and doing. So it looked like I was in a movie. And then slowly I forgot all that. 'cause I grew up and I remember, and this is what happens to us, children are very spiritually connected typically, unless there's some horrific birth trauma experience. And then we slowly, so gradually acculturate to this different energetic collective kind of uncon, I'm gonna call it the collective unconscious <laugh> of the planet.

    Speaker 3 (14:04):

    And it's heartbreaking and it's so gradual and unconscious. People don't really get that it even happened. They just wake up one day often as adolescents. And life is just not right. So many people are on antidepressants. The suicide rates are so high and there's this sort of vague, what is it? And then the surge goes on and on and then the list of physical things goes on and on. And I loved the episode with that. You did with Dr. Amit Agarwal. I was listening earlier and I just loved how he went into all these layers and speaking to how we have to begin to or get to, you said we have to. This is a beautiful invitation to come back to ease and grace and it's so much life. Makes sense. And it's so much simpler when we drop into that deeper layer of wisdom and connection to the planet.

    Speaker 3 (15:04):

    It's a literal electrical connection to the earth. It's a polarity. We actually become connected to the positive iion forces of the ionosphere and then the grounding. It's the yin pole of the earth. And so we begin to connect heaven and earth through our bodies and log on this infinite well of power and wisdom and intelligence in the universe. I just described what a spiritual experience typically is for most people. They somehow connect. It could be psychedelics, it could be a revelation that comes or a healing that comes or, and but, and what is that thing? And how do we actually live there? And somehow we're gonna connect this to fascia because you're really interested in fascia. And fascia is relevant to what I'm saying. So back to my story, I was not in my body at all. And then I arrived in, I think I was 15 years old and I had this accidental intellectual exposure to psychedelic medicine.

    Speaker 3 (16:10):

    It was a peyote medicine. And I've never said this in public before, but I think it's really relevant now that I saw it all. It's like, am I observer, self stepped back and looked at the whole movie and I was remember feeling, don't, how did I end up here? This is the wrong place. It's, it was very dark because the world's very dark. It's very, it's impossible to understand or feel resolution toward without this bigger site being in the body gives you bigger sight, simplifies things and resources. The physical self with the energy needed and the intelligence needed to heal. So I think that's where my journey began in the sense of, oh, I'm actually going to move toward understand I'm gonna solve this. And the same, it was the same year I got the download. I remember walking across the courtyard of my high school and it was almost like a boy said, you're going to medical school.

    Speaker 3 (17:13):

    And at the time I didn't even, I didn't know what that meant. I just thought books are easier than people. Let's do it. <Laugh>. So I had to heal myself. And then the whole process of my 20 years in practice was getting into my body. At first it's a little terrifying 'cause it's uncharted territory and there's all this backlog. So consciously or otherwise, when you say embodiment, it's a little bit terrifying to the subconscious. What is that? It's a total unknown. I might be an expert in a million things and I go in this direction and I feel totally disoriented and out of my depth. Hey, I understand. I'm with you on that. And so I had was a distance runner to deal with all my stress and medical school and existential stress is what I would say is the biggest thing. This kind of, I'm not gonna look at the world.

    Speaker 3 (18:10):

    I'm just gonna study a lot and run like 10 miles a day to just move all the energy of that terror. I would say that most of us carry somewhere in ourselves, whether or not we're connected to it moment to moment. And I had physical issues, big time, adrenal stuff. I had blown a disc in my low back 'cause I was so not present with my structure. I just was running all those endorphins. And then I got to fix it all. And it took many years. And I realized at one point, wow, I'm getting all these amazing treatments. But until I got in my body and was driving that blend of the physical and electrical, it didn't stick. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So I thought my biggest service to the world would be to help people have a lot of fun doing this, driving of their integrated self.

    Speaker 3 (19:06):

    So I actually wanna talk about really specific things today. Two epic super simple things that people can begin to do right now, like in this moment is connect your tongue to the roof of your mouth. Because the pituitary, which guides all the entire endocrine system hormones, cortisol that topic is so deep and I really love how Dr. Agarwal addressed it. So I'm not gonna talk about it. I'll invite everyone to go listen to that podcast. Is that when our tongue is dissociated from the roof of our mouth, it's actually pretty difficult to blend the three D movie into one physical and subtle body. It's almost like a set point for the main river of life force through the center of the body, which is called the central channel in Chinese medicine. And sh shara in sh sh. Thank you. Thank you. <Laugh>. Oh, in Ayurvedic medicine, this is this.

    Speaker 3 (20:06):

    And in osteopathy we call it the midline. Everything. Everything relates to the midline. So the physical and the subtle, we've got to, we get to begin to tune into what that channel is that connects us to the earth. And the ionosphere. It's a literal electrical circuit. I have papers in physics that describe how we participate in this circulation. It's not a vague, esoteric or really hypothetical. This is all mapped out in physics and mathematics. I have to close my window here just a second. So the tongue on the roof of the mouth, I say having a well-functioning tongue is like having an osteopath living in your head. And in Ayurvedic teachings, in the Vedic teachings, they describe a chakra in the roof of the mouth called the Soma chakra. That when the tongue is trained to land on the roof of my of your mouth and I speak all about how you get this to happen on my website in a blog called Your Swallows Mile and sleep are more related than you think.

    Speaker 3 (21:17):

    And so I have people start to really experience how wonderful it feels to have this connection come back in. And I can see you're doing it right now, <laugh>, you're playing with that the entire polyvagal pathway, the vagus nerve is, is almost like massaged with every swallow. When the tongue lands on the roof of your mouth and mechanically it's one to six pounds of pressure every time you swallow one to 2000 times a day. And that pulses and keeps the pituitary awake and it keeps the connection between the heart and the pineal active. So this is an very direct nervous system. Calming and electrical system activation. There's a super cool idea. It's gonna affect fascia too because you're gonna begin to activate the electrical flow through the body, which then basically supercharges the fascia. And what we wanna do is get our energy moving. That's all I'm talking about.

    Speaker 3 (22:18):

    At the end of the day, you could call this podcast, get your energy moving and also get it in focus. Not all, most people are walking around, they're like a symphony of musical instruments that are all doing different things. It's crazy. And then we wanna get the symphony in tune. So tongue on the palette. And I wanted to say something. Oh, it's such a deep topic. I really encourage people to go read that blog. It's, I have a whole free self-study library. And then specifically, I'm 59 years old. I look like maybe I'm 45. I never have pain, I don't get sick ever. And I believe it's because of this constant flushing that I've, ult that I've gradually cultivated. My base setting is that I live in this place where there's powerful energy radiating out from my midline at all times. But this is very much like what martial artists do.

    Speaker 3 (23:20):

    This is what yogis do. This is the actual purpose of those practices. And then the toning and correction of things like joint pain and fill in the blank, everything extend from those things. Yoga, qigong, tai chi, frankly just being in a body is all those things all the time. They're not practices for me that I set aside time to do. I'm doing them in every moment. And I don't even know it because that's just who we're born being. So my entire teaching is about let's just reboot and restore to all the things we did naturally when we were born. Everything that works, everything that's good, you are already an expert in, it's just dormant intelligence. So tongue on the palate is where we're gonna start. And that's one connection, one gate, every joint in the body, the palate has multiple joints. Actually our gates in Chinese medicine that they talk about in Qigong, they talk about how every joint in the body is a gate through which this electric electricity must flow.

    Speaker 3 (24:32):

    So cranial, we started out, what does cranial mean? The entire skull behaves in a certain way when there's a lot of vital energy flowing through it. It actually pulses. We call this a rhythm cranial rhythm that is, do you have one or don't you? If you don't, things aren't gonna go well. And so someone might walk in and say, oh I have adrenal fatigue, I have migraines. Okay, cranial rhythm or not cranial rhythm. It doesn't really matter what the symptom is. It matters if you're breathing the entire body, including the fascia, bones and muscle must be integrated and pulsing in this beautiful fluid way that renders our system like an engine in tune. It becomes very fluid and efficient. That's a physical description of flow. State flow state's actually physical and it's also subtle electrical. So the second thing, that was my major revelation that made me so happy and is the reason I don't have pain.

    Speaker 3 (25:34):

    And it's the reason I'm super fit. Despite really not doing anything but using every cell in my body when I walk. And every moment when I sit the whole time I'm talking to you, I'm feeling not consciously, there's no work to this. Once you land in it again, this is you. I'm feeling and connected to every cell in my body. Every cell in my body is participating in everything I'm doing. Breathing, walking, moving, feeling. So it's like a constant state of refreshing, clearing, rejuvenating every cell in the body in every moment. So I hope that wasn't too complex. I do wanna talk about the specifics of how we walk to start to activate that power. Do you wanna say anything? Please,

    Speaker 4 (26:25):

    Please do. So let's see. I definitely wanna talk about fascia. So <laugh>, if you wanna go there and then we can, if you wanna start talking about fascia, that would be

    Speaker 3 (26:35):

    Great. It's beautiful that you have this idea to talk about fascia because when the skull is doing this pulsing, the pelvis is also doing the pulsing. The entire body is a spring. Every joint is expanding contracting in relation to the earth. When that's happening, the fascia does not have to protect us. There's a quality when someone walks in and I'm like, do you have a cranial rhythm or don't you? Well if you don't, you're probably also gonna be physically shrink wrapped in fascia that's trying to protect you and isn't really hydrated or awake or supple and adaptable. So the tongue practice that I just described will actually begin to allow your fascia to back off the need to protect the body. Because once that electrical midline comes in, it's like the trunk of a tree and the entire, all the limbs can relax because they're connected to this power powerful central river. This is a key point. If you don't have a midline, your fascia is going to be doing all kinds of things. And how do you know? Because you'll stretch and then the next day you have to stretch again. You didn't actually, it doesn't stay supple in awake. Does that

    Speaker 4 (27:51):

    Make sense? I wanna, yes it does. Michelle, but I wanna just back up one second because I think most people have the idea of what fascia is the same as what I was basically taught in medical school and residency, which it's this kind of canvas like coating that encases all your bones, nerves, organs and keeps them from moving and holds them in place. But I have gotten such a deeper understanding and respect actually for what fascia is. It not only encases everything, but it attaches to every single cell in your body, every single cell. And it attaches to the structure or kind of the cytoskeleton of each cell. So this is the superhighway by which every cell in your body is connected. And please correct me if I'm wrong and elaborate, but it's faster than the nervous system. And it's why a flock of birds can move seamlessly all in one direction without communicating.

    Speaker 4 (28:53):

    And it's actually what causes the fastest coordination of movement in our body. And it has awareness and consciousness and stores memories and thoughts and all this. And so this is my new fascination with fascia. So I'd love it if you can elaborate on that so that everyone has a a context for what you're saying. I don't want them to discount it and say, oh that's just that white canvassy stuff. Like when we used to do surgery, it was the tissue we had to get through to get to the uterus, but we really didn't pay it much attention. But it's so much more than that.

    Speaker 3 (29:24):

    Oh, I'm so excited that you're so excited to talk about fascia. 'cause It is misunderstood.

    Speaker 4 (29:30):


    Speaker 3 (29:31):

    And it does connect to every cell. And in terms of this reason that a flock of birds, you're, that's one beautiful analogy I use to mm-Hmm <affirmative> just have people get what flow state is, it's everything I'm talking about. And the one piece is there isn't a single aspect of the body that's not a part of shifting to the state of being able to intercommunicate the way of flocker berg's inter communicates. Think about the symphony analogy. There's bone, there are different densities in the body. We have bone, we have muscle, we have dura, we have organ tissue. The fascia connects it all. It's like the information superhighway. But, and every single instrument in the symphony participates the fascia's probably the great harmonizer in order for every cell to and every tissue type to begin to synchronize. So that we do become a flock of birds.

    Speaker 3 (30:26):

    We literally feel connected to everything and everyone, we are tribal beings. This is a foundational principle related to our ability to really exist in prosperity, expansion, abundance, all of that. So the fascia reflects when the body is in integration. It all comes back to integration. The fascia begins to be this sort of fluid supportive, super efficient conductor of information between every single cell in the body. And this electrical activation of the midline is how the charge comes in. The literal energy of our spirit comes through this channel, through the crown of the head when we're born. And that's not when we're born but in development. And the fascia is like where that electricity is actually stored. It's like a battery. It's like a many layers of the body store charge. But, and the fascia is I'm almost seeing like a science fiction movie where the people are in like a, I'm curious about why this image came in.

    Speaker 3 (31:37):

    It's like an electrical matrix that just holds it all together and holds potency and intelligence coming through these channels of connection through the sky and the ground. You know how they're doing solar collection of energy through painting like a roof. The fascia is like this absorber of even energy from the sunlight. It's actually like a huge aspect of how the body functions as a bio battery. So there's the subtle body, the electrical that comes in, but the physical actually has to be able to participate in that. And it's an exchange we have to be able to store that power and then allow it to manifest as regrowing a bone. If you break a bone. I think I'm, I might be getting a little bit abstract with this description maybe a little bit. Yeah, <laugh> <laugh>. So let's talk about something really specific here. My fascia, I doesn't get tight, right?

    Speaker 3 (32:39):

    And it's very supple. It's high. The fascia holds a lot of the water in our body, right? It actually is a, is a very powerful place where mo molecules and electricity join to create this really intense expression of power. Like you said, it's not just the neural pathways, it's not just the meridians. The fascia is probably the most powerful physical aspect of electricity expressing in the body or being held in the body. So let's bring it down to something really basic. How is it that I don't really care ever if I get a massage or not? I don't have tension. I'm not shrink wrapped. And one of the ways that I have solved this is that I walk in a way that native people walk tango dancing is a really great way to begin to learn how to activate the back body, which we, we don't do.

    Speaker 3 (33:40):

    Where fight or flight is an activation of the front body. People have these short hip flexors. So as muscles, all the anterior muscles, all the flexors, they directly tighten the diaphragm and shrink wrap the kidneys and activate the adrenal system. Kidney, renal, adrenal, adrenaline activation of fight, fight or flight. And this returning to native walking just makes the entire conversation so simple. I can't express enough how simply the way you walk, which is how you originally did walk before you unlearned the rigidity of modern ways, right? It's not very American to move in this organic fluid primal way. You will see it more in South America, sometimes in Europe. But, and the stiffness, that is something we learn from simply unconsciously mirroring what we do in our culture shuts down the whole darn thing. Including the ability of the fascia to receive and store and express electricity and power and do its job of hydrating and supporting all the structures of the body.

    Speaker 3 (35:00):

    So natural walking, what do we do? It's opposite. It's <laugh>. It's opposite of what we do. We don't activate, we don't let the SOAs do anything. We push off the back from the ball of the foot when we're pushing off from the ground. That is a momentum that then lets the leg glide effortlessly forward. And it's one way I think of it is thinking of the earth as your dance partner. For anyone out there who's a dancer, you don't unconsciously just maybe connect with your partner or not. You keep this very connected, equal tension no matter what you're doing, right? If they move back, you move forward. If they move forward, you move back. This is a version of the flock of birds, right? We're in sync, we're fluid. It's not something you have to think about. You simply stay connected. So you're connecting to the earth. And in doing so, you're activating this midline function that I talked about that lets the whole body melt and lets the joints release and lets the fascia soft and not do its protective shrink wrap thing.

    Speaker 4 (36:15):

    That's fascinating. And when I was in Argentina recently, I worked with a, a rolfing therapist there who was reteaching me how to walk in the way a manner in which you are stating. And it felt a little bit foreign. But I wanna explain to everyone why I'm so fascinated, fascinated with fascia. Lately I had some experiences with different plant medicines where all I could describe what was happening is this unwinding where my body would make these spontaneous, internally driven movements. They weren't conscious, they were unconscious and was talking with different people about this. What is happening? What's the action? And then I started having them spontaneously because I'm always looking for what are the ways that are stopping us from healing the women I work with myself, the people I know what else is available to us. And so I started experiencing that spontaneously. And then I was at a retreat last weekend here in Dubai and they had something called inner dance. Are you familiar with that?

    Speaker 3 (37:20):

    I've not heard that term, but I imagine it's related to some of the similar things that there are practices.

    Speaker 4 (37:26):

    So it's, they use different music tracks to induce brainwave states and then you lay on a mat blindfolded and basically you allow your body to unwind the way it wants to unwind. And that was fascinating 'cause that's fa, excuse me, unwinding. And then I came across this, I think his name's Thomas Atley, he's head of an osteopathic school in England and he had this wonderful lecture on YouTube about the founder of osteopathy and really the significance of fascia. I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to watch. So I really become aware of it as like you're talking about we're so adrenalized. We had a wonderful doctor on a few weeks ago on the podcast who wrote a book I think called Adrenalize. And we are in fight and flight and how the whole front body is contracted as if, what do you do when you are afraid is you contract into fetal position. So all those muscles are pulled down. And so part of healing for everyone I think is freeing this fascia from its chronically tense state. And like you said, you never care if you get a massage. And I'm thinking, oh, I would love to say that one day <laugh>. So I've been working intensely with my fascia and encouraging all the women I work with to do the same in various ways. I'd love it if we could talk about that. I wash sha is one modality I'm familiar with cupping, fascial flossing. And of course I

    Speaker 3 (38:58):

    Have something great for you. I have something great for you. Yeah. There's a concept in us in mechanics when musculoskeletal medicine of any kind where there's a principle called reflexive inhibition. So this is so great. If you make a bicep, they tighten your bicep, the tricep will automatically release. So people say, I wanna release my bicep, I'm gonna do cupping and I'm gonna do guhan. And I love those things, don't get me wrong. And I use them but not really that much 'cause I don't really need them. And I say this to people about, I have to quiet my mind. No, you don't just feel you can't do both at the same time. Feeling is like activating your bicep, the mind quiets, you don't need to release your front body, simply activate your back body. And the reciprocal inhibition will release the front body. So it's great you can do fascial treatments, but, and like I said before, if you don't get this deeper relationship that will continually release and blend everything, you're just gonna have to keep doing treatments.

    Speaker 3 (40:00):

    It's not the root of what would actually bring flow state into all your body systems and then allow the fascia to be this like in martial arts, this very supportive and intensely strong and powerful sleeve of support that's also supple and can melt and allow you to move gracefully and efficiently in the ways that we see are possible. Mm-Hmm. In those practices, Qigong, any of the martial arts are seemingly magical because what they're doing is accessing the so much power and so much precision. And we think, wow, that's amazing. Is that really possible? They do seemingly humanly impossible things and we can do. And

    Speaker 4 (40:43):

    So when you say activate the back body, are you saying that changing the way we walk is all we need to do? Yes. To activate the back body

    Speaker 3 (40:50):

    And the way you sit there isn't if, if I get up I will shortly and I will walk to my bathroom and I will, I brush my teeth. I am feeling this kind of grudge, this whole conversation that's happening. Oh, I've been sitting for a while, I don't can't, I don't really feel my glutes activating. When you are walking, you wanna feel those back body muscles working and if you've been sitting for a while and you get up, you probably will notice, oh, I don't really feel them. And so I tell people, crouch like an animal on the ground. Exaggerate the recruiting of all these muscles too. You can feel those back body muscles activate and then gradually and then notice them. You won't have to notice them forever once they're on Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But in the beginning you need to notice like I'm actually dancing with the earth with the spring, like connected and recruiting of every muscle in every step.

    Speaker 3 (41:54):

    And this is actually a way to heal your spine. I used to have all kinds of back issues and I remember one time when I built my school, I was sitting at the computer so many hours and getting away with it because of a lot of these things I'm talking about. But one day I noticed I was getting one of those muscle spasms where you can just tell if it goes, my whole spine's just gonna be contracted and it's gonna be weeks and weeks of pain. Has anyone gotten into one of those neck spasms? And then it's just really stuck for a while and really painful. I haven't had that happen in a long time, but I woke up a couple years ago and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm just about to be in big trouble. And I connected to my breath, got up, connected to the floor and walked down to make my tea very deliberately with this kind of like you were saying, you were going into the spontaneous fluid thing on the floor with that practice that you, this is it.

    Speaker 3 (42:55):

    This is what animals and primitive man did to wake it all up and blend it together. And I walked for a few minutes down to make my tea and this attunement to this micro movement and recruiting and what, what's going on in there? Really allowing my awareness to connect to every cell and in particular my back body. And it, it's like flipping a switch. Boom, we're on, we're good. Done. No neck thing happened. I basically could have been weeks of needing treatment, expensive and time consuming, looking for help outside of myself. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> three or four minutes of conscious connection to your body and recruiting every muscle in particular your butt that solved it instantly. So awesome. That's a flock of birds flow. That's a flock of birds flow, behavior. And of course the fascia is almost like the holder of the whole thing. It's almost like the fascia kind of like activates the consciousness of, oh, I'm actually one substance. And the fascia sort of just connects it all together and holds the power and the integration. It's the support and the softness, the power and the softness at the same time. Because

    Speaker 4 (44:13):

    It has something called tensity, right? It's a liquid and solid. And so it's, isn't it really what keeps, when you're walking and your hand goes forward, it's what keeps your hand from flying off of your shoulder, isn't it? It keeps everything. Yeah. Because otherwise you'd be like a bag of jelly,

    Speaker 3 (44:31):

    Biotin, seg is exactly what I'm describing. It's another way of saying integration and the cooperation or integration's really the word, the flock of birds being all the parts of the body dropping into synchrony. And so the tensile aspects and then the structural aspects work together. It's this means we're a spring, that means we're everything's contained and this, this, the stability elements are bones are, are what allows support the fluid aspects to be free and melted. It's another way of saying integration. And it only comes through this splinting of the physical body and the subtle body. We can achieve this and not realize what we've done because, so oh, it's another brilliant thing I noticed that when we're in this three D glasses, the subtle body and the physical body blend again, the symphony is in tune. This is our fleck of birds state. The nervous system comes into balance. They mirror one another. Exactly. So if you can't yet feel your energy body, and believe me, I can relate, you will feel your nervous system responding to this blending of the physical and electrical aspects.

    Speaker 4 (45:53):

    Yes. There's so much to talk about with this. I'm creating a whole new program inside my other programs to start integrating, talking about fascia. I would love to have you come talk. Please tell me you have a blog or video somewhere on your website or YouTube about teaching people how to walk correctly.

    Speaker 3 (46:11):

    I have, do you I have gazillions of things. If you go to my website, flow is medicine.com. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Youll see a whole self study library. I have a YouTube channel. Okay. With tons of great things on it. I also have an ebook where I break down the tongue thing and I think I put the walking thing in there and the sitting thing, this, that thing you told me about you getting on the floor and dissolving into spontaneous fluid moment movement. Yeah, that's it right there. So I talk about what is that? How do we get there? How do we live there? And I can't stop talking about it. So I have a ton of videos, I have a ton of blogs there. I have an ebook and I, we actually have a flow school where we do it together once a week live on Zoom. And it's also a continuing medical education for doctors. So Awesome. Yeah. So the, all of that's so easy to find on flow is medicine.com and I'm really excited to hear about your program coming up and I can't wait to be a part of it if that's something that we, we could explore a collaboration on that. That sounds incredible.

    Speaker 4 (47:23):

    Yes, Dr. Michelle, it's, it's so great to have you on. I'm definitely gonna check out the resources. I hope some of you listening will join me in her online class 'cause it sounds super fun, educational and worthwhile for your health. Thank you so much for joining us. Any other information that you wanna share with everyone? Flow is medicine.com is where they can find you. Any other places online where you'd like them to know about connecting

    Speaker 3 (47:50):

    With you? I would love everyone to go to my courses page and sign up for even the free preview of what I'm doing because it's like a drip. I'm talking about some really powerful confronting things that will destroy your ego. Do not <laugh>, I don't think. I don't know that, but, and self-care is an invitation, not an obligation. It's so fun once we get past that initial terror that you may or may not realize you have <laugh> and then it's about building community. So even just going in and saying, I wanna learn more about this class and being in the loop to receive very few things I send out. But it's almost like, hmm, when the time is right, there'll be an email in your inbox and we'll just go with the flow <laugh>

    Speaker 4 (48:42):

    And with the flow.

    Speaker 3 (48:43):

    I love it. Thank you

    Speaker 4 (48:45):

    So much for joining me today, Dr. Michelle. This has been an absolute pleasure and a gem. Thank you so much.

    Speaker 3 (48:52):

    Thank you for having me. Delighted

    Speaker 4 (48:54):

    And thank you all for joining me for another episode of the Hormone Prescription. This has been an amazing conversation. I know for some of you, a lot of this probably went over your head. Don't worry. Keep coming back. Keep listening. Check out Dr. Michelle's resources. It will make sense to you eventually and for some of you, this was right on point and you're gonna wanna know more. So you're going to want to check out her resources as well. Hopefully you are loving this new content that we are expanding and bringing to you 'cause it's really gonna help you with your hormones. We tied this a little bit into hormones today, but stay tuned for future episodes 'cause we'll be tying fascia more into hormones into your overall health and wellbeing. So

    Speaker 2 (49:42):

    I look forward to seeing you again next week. Until

    Speaker 4 (49:44):


    Speaker 3 (49:45):


    Speaker 2 (49:46):

    Love, and hormones y'all. Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormone and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

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