Episodes
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Rev. Dr. Kenda Creasy Dean reminds us in her new book, Innovating for Love, that we don’t create new things for the sake of change, for innovation’s sake, but rather so that we can love better. We are always finding new ways to love our neighbors in the ways Jesus calls us to love. Carlos Huerta, the Executive Director of the Center for Community Transformation in Fresno, certainly embodies Kenda’s notion. A California-based entrepreneur who turned his attention and life’s work to loving people well – listening to their stories and sharing his own, giving space for building connections, community, and voice. Carlos reminds us that innovation begins with paying attention. Wow! Could it be that simple? What might that look like in our own congregations, families, neighborhoods? What are we paying attention to? What are we noticing? Who might we partner with in our community to love better? We hope Carlos’ story sparks a new conversation and perhaps a new idea for you as you lean into God’s call for this season of your life and ministry. Please share with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
Carlos’ rootedness in Fresno and his inspired journey that led him to become the Executive Director for the Center for Community Transformation.Why “doing life together” is so central to innovation.How the theology of imago dei has shaped Carlos’ leadership.About Carlos Huerta
Carlos is the executive director of the Center for Community Transformation, overseeing programs in entrepreneurship, financial literacy, ministry leadership training for Spanish-speaking leaders and soft-skills job-training. Carlos holds a bachelor's degree in social work from Fresno Pacific University, a master's degree in Organizational Leadership from Michigan State University, and an MBA from Fresno Pacific University.
Read about Carlos’ organization, the Center for Community Transformation: https://www.fresno.edu/departments/center-community-transformation
Read all about the Locke Innovative Leader Award on our website: https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/locke-leaders
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
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Pastah J, as his friends and parishioners affectionately call him, is a remarkable testament to the notion that innovating is what happens when you love the people you are with. We often make innovation out to be the next, big, creative, tech, cool thing when really it's about figuring out how to love our neighbors better and how to more deeply and faithfully root ourselves in Jesus' call. It's ministry. It's courageously saying YES. It's never going it alone. It's tenaciously pursuing possibilities. It's being a neighbor and loving the neighborhood. We pray this conversation sparks a new idea or even a new courage in you and your ministry. If it does, please share with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
Pastah J’s relational approach to ministry with the Englewood and Lawndale communities in Chicago.How Pastah J organized bringing Whole Foods into the neighborhood on the neighborhood’s terms.Pastah J’s vision is to destroy Saviorism in congregations and reclaim neighboring neglected neighborhoods.Discussion of the quote from Benjamin Mays, “The love of God and love of humanity is one love” and why it beautifully articulates Pastah J’s ministry.About Jonathan Brooks
Rev. Jonathan Brooks, or Pastah J, as he is affectionately known, is a lifelong resident of Chicago, IL, and serves as the lead pastor at Lawndale Christian Community Church in the North Lawndale Neighborhood. He is also the board chair of the Parish Collective. He previously served as the senior pastor at Canaan Community Church in the West Englewood neighborhood for fifteen years. As an educator on many different levels and a firm believer in investing in your local community, Jonathan has a deep desire to impress this virtue on the students and young people in his congregation, classroom, and community. His ministry focuses on youth development, holistic health, college scholarships, art and music training as well as restorative justice practices and care for the incarcerated and their families.
Pastah J is a sought-after speaker, writer, artist, and community activist. He has contributed to numerous blogs, articles and books, and his most recent book is Church Forsaken: PracticingPresence in Neglected Neighborhoods.
For more information about Jonathan “Pastah J” Brooks, visit: pastahj.com.
Pastah J is the Lead Pastor of Lawndale Christian Community Church in Chicago: http://www.lawndalechurch.org/
Read all about the Locke Innovative Leader Award on our website: https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/locke-leaders
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
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Our Locke Innovative Leaders offer a powerful picture of what is possible for the church. They don’t just see a need, they see great potential that exists in that need, and they respond with the next faithful step, always gathering others to help create and build. It’s remarkably consistent. Moy Mendez, a pastor in Chicago and the Executive Director of the Hope Center in Blue Island, is a great example – he didn’t just see the needs of his community; he saw the potential, and he leaned in, offering a platform for the giftedness of his neighbors. Today, Hope Center employs, engages, and trains neighbors in agriculture, auto mechanics, technology, and the arts, building a culture of hope and well-being. Lives are being transformed! We can’t wait for you to meet Moy and hear his story! We pray it sparks an imagination in you for what is possible and if it does, please share with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
Co-host Rev. Dr. Kenda Creasy Dean describe what it means to her to be named an innovative leader.Moy Mendez share his calling to create a platform to empower peopleWhy Moy believes the Hope Center is the ‘modern look of evangelism’ How Moy experienced “innovating for love” as a child and how he innovates for love today.About Moy Mendez
Moy Mendez is a dedicated and visionary leader, serving as the Executive Director of the Hope Center, a dynamic non-profit organization committed to catalyzing community economic development. His journey is a testament to the transformative power of faith, education, and a deep-seated commitment to giving back to the community that shaped him.
Born and raised in a close-knit community, Moy's early years instilled a profound sense of responsibility and a genuine desire to make a positive impact. His unwavering belief in the potential of individuals to create change led him to establish the Hope Center—a platform aimed at equipping the next generation of entrepreneurs in diverse fields, including agriculture, technology, and auto mechanics.
Moy's faith has been a guiding force throughout his life, serving as the cornerstone of his personal values and professional pursuits. Grounded in his strong convictions, he has seamlessly intertwined his spiritual beliefs with his career aspirations. This harmonious blend has not only enriched his journey but has also inspired those around him to find purpose and fulfillment in their own endeavors.
Education has been a cornerstone of Moy's personal growth and professional success. He holds an Associates Degree in Computer Programming from Moraine Valley Community College, a Bachelor's Degree in Theology from Christian Life College, and a Master's Degree in Philosophy of Religion from Trinity International University. Moy enjoys traveling with his wife Eva and dog Oreo in his free time to state parks and beach fronts.
For more information about Hope Center, visit: https://hopecenter.tv/
Read all about the Locke Innovative Leader Award on our website: https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/locke-leaders
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content...
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We are so excited about this season of the Igniting Imagination Podcast as Rev. Dr. Kenda Creasy Dean and Rev. Lisa Greenwood have conversations with four exceptional, innovative faith leaders who are profoundly influencing the way we think about the church’s mission and witness. It’s stunning and inspiring! Our guest this week is Rev. Dr. Heber Brown, III. Heber’s story, the story of how the Black church he served in Baltimore birthed a network of hundreds of churches and black farmers to feed thousands of people with healthy, fresh food, is remarkable. Truly. Nothing short of the powerful work of God! We pray Heber’s story will ignite a new conversation, a new way of thinking, a new imagination in you.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
Co-host Rev. Dr. Kenda Creasy Dean shares the qualities of innovative leaders she’s observed.Heber’s God-sized vision for a small plot of land on his church property.How networking allowed something small to have an outsized impact.Heber’s call to a mission, not a church.About Rev. Dr. Heber Brown, III
Rev. Dr. Heber M. Brown, III has been a catalyst for personal transformation and social change for more than 20 years. For nearly 14 years, he served as pastor of a Baptist church in Baltimore, where he saw and personally experienced the impacts of food apartheid. This helped to inspire him to launch the Black Church Food Security Network which advances food security and food sovereignty by co-creating Black food ecosystems anchored by nearly 250 Black congregations in partnership with Black farmers and other food justice stakeholders. He serves on the board of Bread for the World and has garnered numerous awards including an Ashoka Fellowship. He is the author of the forthcoming book Nothing More Sacred: Radical Stories of Black Church Faith, Food and Freedom.
For more information about Rev. Dr. Brown, visit his website: https://www.heberbrown.com/
For more information about the Black Church Food Security Network, visit: https://blackchurchfoodsecurity.net/
Read all about the Locke Innovative Leader Award on our website: https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/locke-leaders
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
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Have you enjoyed Season 10 of our Igniting Imagination Podcast as much as we have?! We started with Margaret Wheatley and we are ending the season with two remarkable innovative leaders, who also happen to be part of our leadership learning and innovation team, Rev. Kathi McShane and Derrick Scott, III. If you haven’t been listening, this conversation can guide you toward the episodes that most speak to you – it’s a great place to start! If you’ve been listening along the way, we hope you’ll find it helpful to pull on the threads that name the realities we are facing today and how we claim our leadership in the midst. It’s not an easy season, but I’m convinced we have an opportunity to lead in new ways that get us a bit closer to the world that God imagines.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
Leading in a time of polarization.The importance of naming and understanding ambiguous loss.More responses to Wheatley’s “addicted to hope”.Derrick Scott, III is the associate director of learning and innovation for Wesleyan Impact Partners. Derrick has been leading ministry in the collegiate and young adult context for over 20 years.
In addition to his work with Wesleyan Impact Partners, Derrick currently serves as the creative producer of Studio Wesley, a ministry that’s exploring how to serve college-aged young adults in the digital space. He is also the co-lay leader of the Florida Conference of the UMC. He is passionate about empowering a new generation of leaders and laborers who will live as disciples of Jesus Christ to transform the world.
He has an undergraduate degree in history, is a Cicerone Certified Beer Server, and is a textbook introvert. He loves eating sushi, flying on Delta, and pouring craft beer. He lives in Jacksonville, Florida with his Chihuahua-mix dog Winston and Bengal cat Julian. Most importantly, he hates mayonnaise.
Rev. Kathleen McShane is the director of learning and innovation for Wesleyan Impact Partners. Kathi retired from active ministry as an ordained Elder in the California-Nevada Conference of the United Methodist Church in 2022. She led four congregations and served for eight years as the vice president for Institutional Advancement at Pacific School of Religion. Before attending seminary and beginning her life in ministry, she was a civil litigator, practicing law in the San Francisco Bay Area.
In her final appointment in Los Altos, California, Kathi co-founded the Changemaker Initiative, which is a small national movement of churches committed to empowering lay people to become compassion-driven changemakers like Jesus. That work has led her toward multiple projects that are re-imagining leadership for the church of the future. She is the co-author, with Rabbi Elan Babchuck, of Picking Up the Pieces: Leadership after Empire.
Kathi lives on a vineyard on the Central Coast of California.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on
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In this week’s episode of the Igniting Imagination Podcast, we talk with professor Eric Barreto who invites us into a biblical imagination for our work together. We love how he reminds us to keep coming back to the good news of Jesus. Yes! That is what inspires us, forms us, equips and animates us! We hope this conversation gives you a new imagination for what’s possible and if it does, please share with friends and leave us a review! Thank you for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
How childhood experiences shaped Eric’s understanding of faith and the church.The value of a seminary education today.Biblical wisdom for this time of polarization.The gift of Hispanic and Latino perspectives in biblical and theological studies.About Eric Barreto
Dr. Eric D. Barreto is the Weyerhaeuser Associate Professor of New Testament at Princeton Theological Seminary. He holds a BA in religion from Oklahoma Baptist University, an MDiv from Princeton Seminary, and a PhD in New Testament from Emory University. Prior to coming to Princeton Theological Seminary, he served as associate professor of New Testament at Luther Seminary, and also taught as an adjunct professor at the Candler School of Theology and McAfee School of Theology.
As a Baptist minister, Barreto has pursued scholarship for the sake of the church, and he regularly writes for and teaches in faith communities around the country. He has also been a leader in the Hispanic Theological Initiative Consortium, a national, ecumenical, and inter-constitutional consortium comprised of some of the top seminaries, theological schools, and religion departments in the country. He is a member of the Society of Biblical Literature and the National Association of Baptist Professors of Religion.
Visit Eric’s website at: https://www.ericbarreto.com/
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
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Dr. Randy Woodley, professor, scholar, farmer, and indigenous American, speaks of indigenous ways of leading that seem, on the surface, to be counter-intuitive, and yet as we sit with them, we see how resonate with Jesus’ teachings they are. We are so curious what you think as you listen. What do we have to learn from indigenous cultures about leading in this season? What old patterns do we need to let go of, and new postures embrace? Where are you finding yourself renewed in your leadership and in your spirit? As always, we pray this conversation will spark a new imagination for you and for your ministry and if it does, please share with a colleague and leave us a review.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
Difficult truths related to eco-justice, diversity, racial justice.The gifts of indigenous spirituality and indigenous worldview.Why becoming rooted in the earth is essential.A decolonized approach to Christianity and church leadership.About Randy Woodley
Dr. Randy Woodley addresses a variety of issues concerning American culture, faith, justice, race, our relationship with the earth, and Indigenous realities. He recently retired as Distinguished Professor of Faith and Culture and Director of Intercultural and Indigenous Studies at Portland Seminary, Portland Oregon. His expertise has been sought in national venues as diverse as Time Magazine, The New York Times, Politifact, Christianity Today, The Huffington Post, and Planet Drum: A Voice for Bioregional, Sustainability, Education, and Culture.
Dr. Woodley earned a Ph.D. in Intercultural Studies and remains active in ongoing discussions in a variety of areas concerning spirituality, earth-care, racial and ethnic identity, diversity, peace, social justice, eco-justice, interreligious dialogue, Indigenous studies, agriculture, and spirituality.
Randy and his wife Edith, are the founders of Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice and Eloheh Farm & Seeds. Through Eloheh they invite people to a new relationship with Creation and model sustainable farming practices and Earth justice. You can learn more about their work here. And more about their Cultural Consultant work at Sho-Kee here.
Randy’s most recent book, Becoming Rooted: One Hundred Days of Reconnecting with Earth is available here.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
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This week’s episode of Igniting Imagination is a bit of a departure for us – for the first time, our guest is a politician! Yep, State Representative James Talarico. We decided that if we are going to do a season on Facing Reality and Claiming Leadership, we ought to directly address the polarization in our country – and where better than Texas politics!?!
James Talarico, a lifelong Christian, active church member, and student at Austin Presbyterian Seminary while serving in the Texas House of Representatives, lives his deep faith in startling ways in his legislative work. If you find yourself disagreeing with his stances, then all the more, he wants to draw you into conversation and even collaboration. He lives a very biblical and profoundly challenging understanding of what it means to love your neighbor. We look forward to hearing your reactions. We pray it will spark new conversations for you, perhaps a new insight into God’s call for you or your church.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
Why James is in seminary and how he navigates faith and politicsWhy polarization is the greatest challenge of our time and how people of faith can respondThe threat of Christian nationalism to the country and churchHow to lead in an environment of constant criticismStories of hope and making a difference at the local levelAbout James Talarico
Representative James Talarico is a former public school teacher first elected to serve in the Texas House of Representatives in 2018. Born in Round Rock, Rep. Talarico attended Wells Branch Elementary School and graduated from McNeil High School before earning degrees from The University of Texas at Austin and Harvard University. After college, he taught middle school on the Westside of San Antonio. He currently sits on the Public Education Committee, the Juvenile Justice and Family Issues Committee, and the Calendars Committee.
As a former teacher, Rep. Talarico has worked to ensure all Texas students have access to a quality education. In his first term, he helped write the most significant reform to the state’s school finance system in 20 years. He went on to pass major legislation to open up millions of dollars for student mental health and character education programs, establish the first-ever cap on Pre-K class sizes to reduce student-to-teacher ratios, and improve the quality and affordability of child care. As a type 1 diabetic, Rep. Talarico also passed historic legislation to cap insulin copays in Texas at $25 a month and import low-cost prescription drugs from Canada — dramatically reducing prescription drug costs for Texas patients. In addition, he passed laws to combat teen fentanyl overdoses, ban reality TV policing, increase accountability within the Texas Juvenile Justice Department, and give all incarcerated minors in Texas the opportunity to earn a high school diploma.
For these accomplishments, Talarico was named one of the Top 10 Best Legislators by Texas Monthly magazine.
Article by Adam Wren referenced in the episode can be accessed here.
Talarico’s websites are here and here.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
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Rev. Dr. Dave Odom, who leads Leadership Education at Duke Divinity, works with hundreds of congregations and leaders from multiple faith traditions across the country. As such, he has a unique vantage point to view the realities of the church and what is needed for leaders today. In this week’s podcast episode, Dave shares that a new kind of support is needed for the work of ministry today – specifically, catalytic leaders and organizations (even congregations!) who are discovering and supporting leaders and ministries doing God’s transformative work in the world. Catalysts multiply the witness! May this conversation be catalytic in your work. May it spark a new imagination and perhaps a new collaboration that multiplies your impact. If it does, we hope you’ll let us know. Email us, share with friends, leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
The challenges of polarization in the church today and what leaders can do.What catalytic leadership is and why is it so important.Why being a healthy church is not the point.A story about a congregation that gives Dave hope for the church.About Dave Odom
Rev. Dr. Dave Odom joined Duke Divinity School in August 2007 to launch Leadership Education at Duke Divinity and now oversees all of its programs and publications, including Faith & Leadership. He regularly teaches and facilitates events and both writes and solicits content for Faith & Leadership. Since 2014, he has directed Alban at Duke Divinity School.
In addition, Odom supervises select initiatives at Duke Divinity School, where he serves as an associate dean and consulting professor. He teaches courses on strategy and leadership along with consulting on program and staff development.
Before coming to Duke, Odom was the founder and president of the Center for Congregational Health in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, which supported healthy communities of faith through consultation, leadership development, interim ministry training and vocational discernment.
For more than 20 years, he has been active in the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. He is an ordained Baptist pastor and graduate of Furman University, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and Princeton Theological Seminary.
To learn more about Leadership Education, visit their website: https://leadership.divinity.duke.edu/
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
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The Rev. Dr. Amy Butler is a master at facing reality and claiming leadership. In her newly released memoir, Beautiful and Terrible Things: Faith, Doubt, and Discovering a Way Back to Each Other, she weaves together what is real and messy and hard with what is true and hopeful and redemptive, reminding us that the journey of faith is inextricably all those things. In our conversation with Pastor Amy, we get to experience a powerful leader, whose vulnerability and honesty offer a witness of the kind of leadership our beautiful (and terrible) world needs today. We hope you find it inspiring as you seek to navigate and lead in this season! If this podcast is meaningful to you, please share with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
Why Amy chose “Beautiful and Terrible Things” as her theme and book titleThe beautiful and terrible things present in the church todayThe connection between vulnerability and leadership and how Amy has leaned into vulnerabilityAmy’s vision for Invested Faith, the philanthropic initiative she founded An excerpt from Amy’s bookAbout Amy Butler
Rev. Dr. Amy Butler is the founder of the philanthropic initiative Invested Faith. She previously served as the first woman senior minister of The Riverside Church in New York City, senior pastor of Calvary Baptist Church (D.C.), associate pastor at St. Charles Avenue Baptist Church in New Orleans, and intentional interim minister at National City Christian Church (D.C.). Pastor Amy holds degrees from Baylor University, the International Baptist Theological Seminary, and Wesley Theological Seminary. She's a mother of three children and currently lives in Hawaii.
Amy Butler’s website: https://www.pastoramy.com/
Invested Faith’s website: https://www.investedfaith.org/
Amy’s book is Beautiful and Terrible Things: Faith, Doubt, and Discovering a Way Back to Each Other.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
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If you are having conversations about innovation in the church, chances are that Andy Root’s name has come up. Writing books like, When the Church Stops Working and The Church After Innovation and The Pastor in a Secular Age, Dr. Andrew Root is leading the way in helping leaders to name and face current reality and lean into new ways of leading. What we love in Andy’s work, and it comes through in this episode, is that he doesn’t turn to expected solutions or ways of behaving. Deeply grounded in scripture and our shared Christian narrative, he invites us to consider a counter-intuitive way of showing up. As always, it is our great hope that this podcast will spark a new imagination within you, perhaps a new conversation and a new way of leading in this season and if it does, please share with friends and leave us a review! Thanks for listening.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
Why the church is in crisis and why the problem we think is the problem isn’t really the problemWhat the Accelerating Age is and what it means for the churchExcavating the idea of innovation and entrepreneurship Andy’s questions and concerns about innovation in the churchThe question every church leader should be asking right nowAbout Dr. Andy Root
Andrew Root (Ph.D., Princeton Theological Seminary) is the Carrie Olson Baalson professor of youth and family ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.
Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson Professor of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary, USA. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations. His most recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline (Baker, 2022), The Congregation in a Secular Age (Baker, 2021), The End of Youth Ministry? (Baker, 2020), The Pastor in a Secular Age: Ministry to People Who No Longer Need God (Baker, 2019), Faith Formation in a Secular Age (Baker, 2017), and Exploding Stars, Dead Dinosaurs, and Zombies: Youth Ministry in the Age of Science (Fortress Press, 2018).
For more information about Dr. Andy Root, visit his website at www.andrewroot.org
You can view Andy’s video on the Church in the Accelerating Age here.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
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Our guest is Dr. Aaron Kuecker, President of Trinity Christian College in Chicago. We can’t wait for you to hear what they are doing at Trinity Christian to tend to the wellbeing of their students. It is intentional and generous and nothing short of life-changing – from their approach to the funding model to how they are protecting the mid-week “Wellbeing Wednesday.” You can’t help but think: What if all campuses were trying similar things? How would this generation be shaped for good? Perhaps we might all be a bit more grounded and generous and less despairing. We are excited for you to meet Aaron and hear how truth-telling, transparency and a commitment to wellbeing is transforming individual lives, a campus, and a community. We hope it sparks a new imagination in you for what is possible in this season and if it does, let us know! Share with friends and leave us a review.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
Challenges college campuses are facing todayHow Christian theology led to prioritizing student wellbeingExploring a new economic model for higher educationLeading an established institution through significant changeAbout Aaron Kuecker
Dr. Aaron Kuecker serves as president of Trinity Christian College. Before assuming this role, he had served as the College’s provost since July 2016. His work as interim president and provost represent a sort of homecoming to the Trinity community. From 2008-2013, Kuecker was associate professor of theology and director of education at the College. In the intervening years, he served at LeTourneau University in Longview, Texas, most recently as dean of the School of Theology & Vocation, professor of theology, and director of the Honors College.
Kuecker’s academic work has largely focused on identity formation in the early Christian church, with an emphasis on New Testament studies and biblical theology. He received his Ph.D. in New Testament studies from the University of St. Andrews in Scotland; his M.Div., from Western Theological Seminary; and his B.A. in political science from Central College. Before earning his Ph.D., Kuecker served as associate pastor and youth pastor at Community Reformed Church in Zeeland, MI.
For more information about Trinity Christian College, visit their website at https://www.trnty.edu/
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
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This conversation with Dr. Pauline Boss, author of Ambiguous Loss: Learning to Live with Unresolved Grief, is hope-filled, encouraging, validating, and motivating. Her insights manage to be both practical and weighty. She reminds us that we live in a mastery culture – that is, we want to be in control, have the answers, and win – which is, of course, a myth, so we are a nation (yes, a whole nation!) of unresolved grief, needing to name our profound sense of loss in the face of so much uncertainty. Wow! Think about the implications for the church – the essential role we can play in stewarding grief today, navigating uncertainty, residing in hope. This conversation feels like holy ground. We hope it ignites a new imagination for your leadership, your relationships, your way of being in the world.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
How Dr. Boss came to coin the term “ambiguous loss” Loss vs. Grief in our culture Learning to sit with loss and unanswered questionsAmbiguous loss in congregations / leading congregations to grieve ambiguous lossWhy closure is a myth and what that means for how we live and leadAbout Dr. Pauline Boss
Pauline Boss, PhD, Professor Emeritus at the University of Minnesota is a Fellow in the American Psychological Association and the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy and a former president of the National Council on Family Relations. She practiced family therapy for over 40 years.
With her groundbreaking work in research and practice, Dr. Boss coined the term ambiguous loss in the 1970s and since then, developed and tested the theory of ambiguous loss, a guide for working with families of the missing, physically or psychologically. She summarized this research and clinical work in her widely acclaimed book Ambiguous Loss: Learning to Live with Unresolved Grief (Harvard University Press, 2000).
In addition to over 100 peer reviewed academic articles and chapters, her other books include Loss, Trauma, and Resilience: Therapeutic Work with Ambiguous Loss (W. W. Norton, 2006) and Loving Someone Who Has Dementia: How to Find Hope While Coping with Stress and Grief (Jossey-Bass, 2011). Her most recent book is The Myth of Closure: Ambiguous Loss in a Time of Pandemic and Change (W. W. Norton, 2022). Her work is known around the world wherever ambiguous losses occur, and her books have been translated 23 times into various languages. As of 2022, Dr. Boss was granted Emeritus status as a longtime family therapist, and, as of 2023, Emeritus status in the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy.
For more information about Dr. Boss, her writings, and the ambiguous loss online training program, see www.ambiguousloss.com.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on
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Jump into 2024 with a special Bonus Episode of Igniting Imagination! We have invited two of our most frequent (and beloved) guests, Rev. Rachel Billups and Rev. Matt Rawle, to engage with Carey Nieuwhof’s list of 7 Church Trends That Will Disrupt 2024. Matt and Rachel reflect that this year’s list seems particularly spot on. From the endangered stable church to the normative adoption of AI, these trends are real and happening now. Throughout the conversation, they offer practical nuggets – things they are trying in the midst of so much change and challenge and possibility. Thanks for listening and sharing our podcast with colleagues and friends! We hope this conversation inspires and even provokes you to new conversations and imagination in this New Year!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
How Rachel and Matt have experienced the trend that the “stable church” is an “endangered species” (5:30)What it means for congregations where Millennials are becoming the core (10:45)The different generational needs and expectations of pastoral leadership (14:00)How Gen Z is reshaping the church and how leaders can cultivate Gen Z community (25:00)Growing opportunities for digital discipleship (30:00)Leaning into AI in 2024 and beyond (38:10)Guests
Rev. Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker, and author. Currently, she serves as pastor at New Albany United Methodist Church. She previously served as senior pastor at Ginghamsburg Churchmulti-campus ministry in Tipp City, Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission.
Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds bachelor’s degrees in Bible/religion and history from Anderson University and a master of divinity from Duke Divinity School. Rachel is the author of Be Bold: Finding Your Fierce and other books published by Abingdon Press.
Rev. Matt Rawle is the lead pastor at Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, Louisiana and a graduate from the LSU School of Music and Duke Divinity School. He’s an international speaker who loves to tell an old story in a new way, especially at the intersection of pop culture and the church. He’s authored The Heart that Grew Three Sizes, The Grace of Les Misérables, What Makes a Hero?, The Faith of a Mockingbird, Hollywood Jesus, The Salvation of Doctor Who, and
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Read Rev. Dr. Paul Escamilla’s response to the Wheatley episode on our website here.
In this episode, you’ll hear us:
Discuss of Wheatley’s unsettling insistence that we are ‘addicted to hope’ (9:19)Consider what the notion of “islands of sanity” means for local congregations (13:55)Analyze becoming vs. gaining (22:34)Interpret Wheatley’s Two Loop theory for the work of the church today (37:24)Experience Danielle Shroyer reading an excerpt from the new intro to the 10th Anniversary of her book, “Boundary Breaking God” (53:00)Danielle Shroyer’s Bio
Danielle spent over a decade in pastoral leadership and was a founding member of the emerging church movement. She speaks often across the country on issues of theology, faith, culture, and story, and she blogs at beasoulninja.com. Danielle currently serves as the Spiritual Director in Residence at Preston Hollow Presbyterian Church in Dallas.
Danielle is the author of Original Blessing: Putting Sin in its Rightful Place; Where Jesus Prayed: Illuminations on the Lord’s Prayer in the Holy Land; and The Boundary Breaking God: An Unfolding Story of Hope and Promise.
Gil Rendle’s Bio
Gil is a retired Senior Vice President and part-time consultant with The Texas Methodist Foundation in Austin, Texas, and an independent consultant working with issues of change and leadership in denominations.
Rendle has an extensive background in organizational development, group and systems theory, and leadership development. He has consulted with congregations on planning, staff and leadership development, and issues of change. He is well known for his work with middle judicatory and national denominational offices and staff as they wrestle with denominational and congregational change.
He is the author of ten books, a contributor to four books, and the author of numerous articles and monographs. His most recent books include Journey in the Wilderness: New Life for Mainline Churches (2010) and Back to Zero: The Search to Rediscover the Methodist Movement (2011) both published by Abingdon Press and Doing the Math of Mission: Fruits, Faithfulness and Metrics (2014) and Quietly Courageous: Leading the Church in a Changing World (2018) both published by Rowman & Littlefield.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
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Dr. Margaret Wheatley has greatly influenced our leadership ministry work over the past several decades. We have given her book Who Do We Choose to Be? Facing Reality, Restoring Sanity, Claiming Leadership to many leaders. Meg’s foundational idea that “conversation is the currency of change” is at the heart of everything we do. The Two-Loop Theory she developed with Deborah Frieze has helped us clarify and articulate our role in forming cohorts that network, nourish, and inspire leaders to bring about the new Wesleyan ecosystem and the world that God imagines. Needless to say, getting to meet Meg and record a podcast with her was thrilling for us! And…this interview truly wowed us. In fact, it was so dang good we are releasing it way earlier than we anticipated! We want you to hear Meg’s insights about the age we are living in, how she’s changed her mind, and what is ours to do as leaders today.If you find our podcast meaningful, share with a friend and leave us a review! And as we mention in each episode, we love hearing from you! Visit our websites for our contact information and more! https://ignitingimagination.org/ and https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/
In this conversation, you'll hear:
Response to those who think money, not conversation is the currency of change today (7:18)Analysis of the “Age of Threat” we are living in and the role of islands of sanity (12:00)Updated thinking about the Two-Loop theory and role of catalyst (20:05)The antidote to despair and grief in our time (34:15)The need for health refugias (43:35)What’s going to be on her tombstone (50:30)Lisa Greenwood and Shannon Hopkins reflect on the conversation with Meg (53:27)Dr. Margaret Wheatley is a consultant, senior-level advisor, teacher, speaker, co-founder and President of The Berkana Institute; she has worked on all continents (except Antarctica) with all levels, ages, and types of organizations, leaders, and activists. Her work now focuses on developing and supporting leaders globally as Warriors for the Human Spirit. These leaders put service over self, stand steadfast through crises and failures, and make a difference for the people and causes they care about. With compassion and insight, they know how to invoke people’s inherent generosity, creativity, kindness, and community–no matter what’s happening around them.
Meg has written ten books, including the classic Leadership and the New Science, and been honored for her pathfinding work by many professional associations, universities, and organizations. Her website is designed as a library of free resources as well as information about products and her speaking calendar. www.margaretwheatley.com
We reference Margaret Wheatley and Deborah Frieze’s Two Loop Theory in the conversation. Find information about the theory and so much more on the Berkana website resource page here.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on
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Rev. Kathi McShane, a retired United Methodist pastor, and Rabbi Elan Babchuck, a millennial, experienced an immediate connection when they met, a Spirit connection that made them fast friends from the beginning. In this episode, they share how their friendship naturally manifested in Picking Up the Pieces: Leadership After Empire. They discuss the vision of the book, moving away from the pyramid model of leadership where power is centered around one person or a group of people and towards a shared power where every person can stretch toward the fullness of their God-given gifts, regardless of where they land on an organizational chart. Their vision of leadership, born of their friendship, shows how holy friendship truly benefits not only those in the friendship but blesses the whole world.
Poem from the Podcast
“Red Brocade” by Naomi Shihab Nye
The Arabs used to say,
When a stranger appears at your door,
feed him for three days
before asking who he is,
where he’s come from,
where he’s headed.
That way, he’ll have strength
enough to answer.
Or, by then you’ll be
such good friends
you don’t care.
Let’s go back to that.
Rice? Pine nuts?
Here, take the red brocade pillow.
My child will serve water
to your horse.
No, I was not busy when you came!
I was not preparing to be busy.
That’s the armor everyone put on
to pretend they had a purpose
in the world.
I refuse to be claimed.
Your plate is waiting.
We will snip fresh mint
into your tea.
(Nye, Naomi Shihab. “Red Brocade.” 19 Varieties of Gazelle: Poems of the Middle East, HarperCollins Publishers, 2005, pp. 40.)
Quotations
"I know I'm in a holy friendship when I feel in every interaction like I am so gifted by this person's presence in my life and what I want for him is only good. I think those are the same things that sound like love."
- Rev. Kathleen McShane
We discuss:
A rabbi and a pastor, living on different coasts and born in different generations, form a holy friendship. (04:13)
The friends discuss the concept of a soul friend and their deep connection with each other. (11:30)
The two reflect on the spontaneous and immediate response that led them to collaborate on writing a book, believing it was something bigger than themselves. (13:51)
The friends reflect on the dynamics of power and friendship, highlighting the importance of humility, learning, and letting go of pride. (28:33)
The suggestion that religious organizations have the potential to experiment with alternative leadership models and add value to society. (34:43)
About
Rev. Kathleen McShane is the director of Leadership and Innovation for Texas Methodist Foundation and Wesleyan Impact Partners. She retired from active ministry as an ordained Elder in the California-Nevada Conference of the United Methodist Church in 2022. She led four congregations and served eight years as the vice president for Institutional Advancement at the Pacific School of Religion. Before attending seminary, she was a civil litigator, practicing law in the San Francisco Bay Area. She co-founded the
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The guests in this episode became friends through a common commitment to activism and social justice. Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV and Rev. Dr. Matt Russell became best friends both by cultivating their common ground and exploring the very real differences between their perspectives and experiences. They share how their friendship has profoundly shaped their work, their personal growth, and their lives as Christian men. Their conversation, very real and full of laughter, feels like an experience of the holy, showing us how sanctified friendships are a work of the Spirit bringing us together, especially for such a time as this. It’s well worth just taking the time to be fully immersed in this wonderful conversation.
Find the poem from the podcast here.
Quotations
"Matt enables me to be creative because he's one of the few persons in the world who would understand my decisions and commitment to my integrity of conscience."
- Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV
We discuss:
Matt and Cleve discuss how they met and became friends through their shared passion for social justice and activism. (5:27)
The importance of building friendships across divides and the challenges of understanding different experiences and perspectives. (26:01)
The speakers discuss how their friendship changed them and impacted their personal growth, creativity, and ability to thrive. (33:30)
Exploring the challenges and importance of forming meaningful friendships between Christian men. (41:33)
Exploring the concept of holiness and the need for the church to redefine it, emphasizing the importance of relational and shared resourcing. (49:18)
About
Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV is assistant professor of history and political science in the School of Arts and Sciences at Virginia Union University (VUU), where he has also been appointed the inaugural executive director of the Center for African-American History and Culture (CAAHC).
Dr. Tinsley is quickly emerging as a noted interpreter of religion and Black freedom movements, recently commenting on the role of religion in light of recent uprisings for Black lives for the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace and World Affairs at Georgetown University. He is the co-author of Embodiment and Black Religion: Rethinking the Body in African-American Religious Experience and is working on his first monograph, tentatively entitled Making Black Lives Matter: Religion and Race in the Struggle for African-American Identity.
Rev. Dr. Matt Russell is an academic, activist, pastor, professor, and teacher. He is on staff at Chapelwood United Methodist Church in Houston and is co-founder and co-managing director of Project Curate, which works with religious, academic, and community organizations by curating and bringing together different voices and traditions to realize a radical vision of a more just and equitable world. He is also co-founder and executive director of Iconoclast Artists, a program that empowers young artists throughout the community.
Show Notes
Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV is assistant professor of history and political science in the School of Arts and...
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The guests in this episode are ‘all in’ with the church; they are dear friends of our host, Rev. Lisa Greenwood, who also happen to be Bishops in the United Methodist Church, Bishop Laura Merrill, and Bishop Janice Huie. In their conversation the three of them explore what has been meaningful about their friendship and how their friendship has impacted their leadership for the better, throughout their careers. They provide important insight into the critical role of vulnerability in friendship and how that means intentionally creating space for unlikely friendships, especially during challenging times. And they discuss how friendship is vital not only for us personally, but for the thriving of the church itself. Please enjoy and let us know what you think!
Quotations
"I'm in a holy friendship when I have both the desire and the energy and the willingness to be better, to be my best, truest self—that I want to, and I feel empowered to do so by that relationship."
- Bishop Laura Merrill
“[Sanctified friendship] is a time and a space and a relationship in which love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, gentleness—all those are expanded and make us more whole. It's when the fruit of the spirit is enlarged.”
- Bishop Janice Huie
We discuss:
The depth and breadth of friendship (8:35)
The importance of deep trust and vulnerability in friendship, even during challenging times. (23:08)
Intentionally creating spaces for unlikely friendships and the potential impact of these connections in the church and society. (29:35)
The significance of friendship in leadership roles (34:52)
Challenges of maintaining friendships as a bishop (36:16)
Find the poem from the podcast here.
About
Bishop Janice Huie serves with Texas Methodist Foundation in the area of Learning and Innovation, following twenty years as a bishop of the United Methodist Church. Previously, she served as bishop of the Texas Annual Conference and the Arkansas Conference. Bishop Huie served as president of the General Board of Higher Education & Ministry from 2000-2004, president of the Council of Bishops from May 2006 through May 2008, president of the UMCOR Board of Directors from 2008-2012, and president of the South Central Jurisdiction College of Bishops in 1998 & 2013.
Bishop Laura Merrill is Capital District Superintendent for the Rio Texas Conference of the UMC in Austin, Texas. Her Cabinet experience includes service as Assistant to the Bishop, Director of Clergy Excellence, and El Valle District Superintendent on the Texas-Mexico border.
When she was ten, Bob and Bishop Janice Huie were her pastors, and Bishop Huie has supported her ever since. As a young adult, Laura served as a missionary in Chile and with the Desert Southwest Conference in Tucson, Arizona. After seminary, she pastored local churches in Victoria, Los Fresnos, and Wimberley, Texas, followed by her appointment to the Cabinet in 2010. Her experience working with people experiencing poverty and in cross-cultural regions has fundamentally shaped her approach to ministry.
Show Notes
Bishop Janice Huie serves with Texas Methodist Foundation in the area of
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This episode features two “besties” talking honestly and openly about their friendship of many years and how it has deeply nourished them, even though they’ve never even lived in the same state. They discuss being fully present in real friendship, giving each other accountability, compassion, love, and care. They engage with the challenges that all leaders face, especially clergy and lay leaders in the church, and how none of us are immune to the loneliness epidemic in our culture. Heartfelt and real, this episode is a call to all of us to take care of our friendships because they are core to who we are and our well-being. We hope you’ll listen and then share it with all your friends!
Quotations
"The people around us are better because of the way that we've challenged each other."
-Matt Rawle
"I don't know how often I find myself in a group of people who, at one moment or another, there's a confession time that says, 'I ain't got anybody... I don't have friends.'"
-Rachel Billups
We discuss:
The need for affirmation and cheerleading in friendships, as well as the importance of being able to challenge and give honest feedback. (14:42)
The challenges clergy face in forming friendships, particularly due to the isolation and boundaries that come with their work. (20:06)
How the church can be a space where people can find and nurture holy friendships, emphasizing the transformative power of community. (32:05)
Understanding the need for pastors to strike a balance between vulnerability while maintaining appropriate boundaries with their congregations. (34:09)
The different spaces where people can connect, such as online platforms and retreat centers, help remove barriers for gathering and help foster relationships. (40:06)
Find the poem from the podcast here.
About:
Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker, and author. Currently, she serves as pastor at New Albany United Methodist Church. She previously served as senior pastor at Ginghamsburg Church multi-campus ministry in Tipp City, Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission.
Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds bachelor degrees in Bible/religion and history from Anderson University and a master of divinity from Duke Divinity School. Rachel is the author of Be Bold: Finding Your Fierce and other books published by Abingdon Press.
Matt Rawle is the lead pastor at Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, Louisiana and a graduate from the LSU School of Music and Duke Divinity School. He’s an international speaker who loves to tell an old story in a new way, especially at the intersection of pop culture and the church. He’s authored The Heart that Grew Three Sizes, The Grace of...
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