Episodes
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Five years ago, Barrett Harkins walked Spain’s Camino de Santiago—an ancient Christian pilgrimage walked by over 500,000 people each year—for a friend’s birthday. Somewhere along the path, he called his wife and asked what she thought about moving there.
Now a missionary in Santiago, where he works with pilgrims on the path and at a hostel, Harkins and Steve Cuss walk the path together. They talk about the power of slowing down and the profound conversations that take place as people journey with one another. They explore what God does in temporary spaces, what it looks like to let go of what we no longer need, and why it is important to create a reflective mind.
Harkins discusses the history of the Camino, the reasons people walk the path, and the way many pilgrims—including Harkins—have found it to be a place where God meets them in their anxiety and offers transformation.
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include:
Camino de Santiago
“The Power of Pilgrimage with Brian and Peri Zahnd”
Three Mile an Hour God by Kosuke Koyama
John Mark Comer
The Enneagram
Striking Out: Poems and Stories from the Camino by Stephen Cottrell
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Chuck DeGroat’s name has become somewhat synonymous with work on narcissism in the church. But as he and Steve Cuss discuss, DeGroat is devoted to shining a light on wholeheartedness and internal integration.
DeGroat and Cuss talk about anxiety—specifically around dying—and the way that age often brings with it a concern for one’s legacy. They talk about experiencing pain through work in church settings, noticing emotions that arise in ourselves and others, and coming home to God and ourselves—all while considering the impact of secondary trauma on people in pastoral and helping professions, ways to distinguish between shutdown and rest, and our response to the invitation of God.
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include:
Chuck DeGroat
Healing What’s Within: Coming Home to Yourself—and to God—When You’re Wounded, Weary, and Wandering by Chuck DeGroat
Wholeheartedness: Busyness, Exhaustion, and Healing the Divided Self by Chuck DeGroat
When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse by Chuck DeGroat
“Narcissism In The Chair”
Internal Family Systems model
The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss
Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs by Steve Cuss
“Always Beginners” by Thomas Merton
Experimental Theology with Richard Beck
The Enneagram
Jesus, My Father, the CIA, and Me: A Memoir … of Sorts by Ian Morgan Cron
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Brandi Wilson was happily raising her three sons with her pastor husband—that is, until he decided to leave their marriage, their family, and the church they had invested in for years.
Close friends and leadership coaches Brandi Wilson and Lori Wilhite share how they weathered Wilson’s devastating loss together. They talk about the particular struggles of being a pastor’s wife and the heartbreak of feeling like someone else is controlling your life circumstances. They discuss managing anxiety, bearing one another’s burdens, and healing even when restoration does not occur.
They also share about the community they run together—Leading and Loving It—and why, despite all the hard things, they still love the church.
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include:
Brandi Wilson
Lori Wilhite
Leading and Loving It
Friedman’s Fables by Ed Friedman
The Enneagram
Philippians: Chasing Happy by Lori Wilhite
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Beth Moore is sure of one thing: In God, nothing is wasted.
On this episode, Cuss and Moore talk about the trauma and trials she has faced, including her experience of being abused as a child, leaving the Southern Baptist Convention after devoting much of her life to it, and walking alongside her husband, Keith, as he navigates bipolar disorder. They discuss how Moore decided to share more of their story in her memoir and the ways God has ministered to people through that vulnerability.
Tune in for an episode that speaks to God’s faithfulness in trauma, how Moore remains playful in the face of hardship, and what her recent back surgery taught her about how deeply God loves his children.
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:
All My Knotted-Up Life: A Memoir by Beth Moore
Living Proof Ministries
Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey
Surrender: 40 Songs, One Story by Bono
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Have you ever walked into a room and immediately sensed anxiety between two people? Or maybe you’ve entered into a challenging conversation and have barely been able to hear it over the thunder of your heartbeat. Perhaps you’ve received a “we need to talk” text and felt your stomach drop with dread.
These types of experiences—and reactions to them—are common, yet we often lack the tools to name or address them. On this episode of Being Human, Steve and Lisa Cuss introduce a tool called the Four Spaces that is designed to help us do just that. They explain the four spaces where anxiety shows up and offer wisdom and insight for engaging with each of them. Their conversation covers taking responsibility for our emotions, releasing our desire to control others, and relaxing in God’s presence.
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:
The Four Spaces
24-7 Prayer Tools
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Why would a loving God send people to hell?
When you hear the word apologetics, that’s likely the type of question that comes to mind. But Lisa Fields, one of the world’s most sought-after Christian apologists and the author of When Faith Disappoints, says there are often much more personal inquiries beneath those intellectual inquiries.
In this episode, Fields and Cuss talk about pastors’ kids, pain points, and perfect love. They discuss the importance of listening when it comes to challenging faith conversations and consider the ways that the church can become a place of refuge. Fields shares how the Jude 3 Project, which she founded, is helping the Black Christian community know what they believe and why. This episode covers trauma, chronic anxiety, and the healing that is only found in Jesus.
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:
When Faith Disappoints: The Gap Between What We Believe and What We Experience by Lisa Fields
Jude 3 Project
Unspoken
Juneteenth: Faith & Freedom
Why I Don’t Go
Leo Percer
Tertullian
Athanasius
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Around 250,000 people walk some portion of the Camino de Santiago, a 500-mile network of ancient pilgrim routes in Spain, each year. In 2016, Brian and Peri Zahnd became two of those people, and it’s marked their lives ever since.
On this episode, host Steve Cuss talks with the Zahnds about the ways that the pilgrimage shaped their perspectives on life and faith. The three discuss pastoring, political participation, and peace in Jesus. Their conversation also covers the Zahnds’ books, ministry, and marriage.
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guests include:
Brian Zahnd
Every Scene By Heart: A Camino de Santiago Memoir by Peri Zahnd
Word of Life Church
Camino de Santiago
Faith, Hope, and Carnage by Nick Cave and Seán O’Hagan
The Way
Scot McKnight
Paul Among the People: The Apostle Reinterpreted and Reimagined in His Own Time by Sarah Ruden
Albergues on the Camino
The Wood Between the Worlds: A Poetic Theology of the Cross by Brian Zahnd
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Humility isn’t just deferring to the desires of others. It’s also standing up for the weak.
So says Dennis Edwards, vice president for church relations and dean of the seminary at North Park University, on this episode of Being Human. Cuss and Edwards talk about how Edwards’s many experiences of being the only Black man in the room have shaped him and his perspective. They talk about thoughtful and biblical approaches to theological education, the modern political landscape, and social media. And Cuss and Edwards consider how, for all of its flaws and challenges, the local church can offer unity in a way entirely its own.
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:
RevDrDre.com
Humility Illuminated: The Biblical Path Back to Christian Character by Dennis R. Edwards
1 Peter (The Anchor Yale Bible Commentaries) by John H. Elliott
The Urban Christian: Effective Ministry in Today’s Urban World by Ray Bakke
Bowen family systems theory
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The Bear is a show about cooking, kitchens, and Chicago. But for anyone who has watched more than an episode or two, it’s clear there’s more to the story.
On this special episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss looks at seven core themes in the hit FX show The Bear. Through the lens of systems theory and anxiety theory, Cuss considers the false needs and beliefs revealed in the show’s characters. He examines their contagious anxiety, sheds light on their conflict patterns, and considers what the show has to say about relationships. Diving into everything from untamed ambition to unprocessed trauma, Cuss ponders the deeply human moments that keep viewers returning to The Bear.
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On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss welcomes Alan Briggs, the founder of Stay Forth, a coaching organization that focuses on leader health and sustainable impact. Briggs’s latest book, AntiBurnout, empowers readers to avoid the perils of burnout and offers practical ways to measure one’s own health and well-being.
Cuss and Briggs discuss the back-to-school anxiety that so many families face, how our individual wiring contributes to our unique anxiety triggers, and how to navigate modern political life. Their discussion includes tips and tools for identifying the skills, gifts, and abilities that can lead us away from resentment and toward rest.
Resources mentioned during this episode include:
The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss
God, Christ and Us by Herbert McCabe
AntiBurnout: A Lighter Way to Live and Lead in a Heavy World by Alan Briggs
Stay Forth
Dr. Wes Beavis
The 6 Types of Working Genius: A Better Way to Understand Your Gifts, Your Frustrations, and Your Team by Patrick Lencioni
The Enneagram
Capable Life
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The Sermon on the Mount is beautiful. It’s also hard.
On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss welcomes his friend, the pastor and author Rich Villodas. The two discuss Villodas’ new book, The Narrow Path, which focuses on the Matthew text. Villodas and Cuss discuss false needs, the longing for the good life, and what it means that God only dwells in reality.
Resources mentioned during this episode include:
New Life Fellowship Church
The Deeply Formed Life: Five Transformative Values to Root Us in the Way of Jesus by Rich Villodas
Good and Beautiful and Kind: Becoming Whole in a Fractured World by Rich Villodas
The Narrow Path: How the Subversive Way of Jesus Satisfies Our Soulsby Rich Villodas
God, Christ and Us by Herbert McCabe
Faith Within Reason by Herbert McCabe
The Ragamuffin Gospel: Good News for the Bedraggled, Beat-Up, and Burnt Out by Brennan Manning
Pete Scazzero
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“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today
Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper
Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens
Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
Theme song by Dan Phelps
Original Music by Andy Gullahorn
Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris
Graphic Design: Amy Jones
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“I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.”
So says Paul in Romans 7, and so, it seems, says the character of Riley in Disney and Pixar’s Inside Out 2. On a special episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss and his wife, therapist Lisa Cuss, explore what the film has to say about being human.
They talk about the film in terms of the internal family systems model and family systems theory. Ultimately, they consider what it looks like to notice parts of ourselves while remembering our core identity in Christ.
Resources mentioned in this episode include:
Inside Out
Inside Out 2
Internal family systems model
Bowen family systems theory
Richard Schwartz
Capable Life
“Put Yourself on Your Conscious List of Relationships”
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There are different kinds of anxiety, but there is one type of anxiety that always feels real in the moment when it is not. Unlike acute anxiety which is always based on a real threat, like when you have to swerve to avoid a car, chronic anxiety is always based on a false threat. Like making everyone happy, or doing it perfectly every time or always needing to be there for others.
In this episode Steve and Lisa dig into what do you think you need that you don’t really need? And they also help you identify the big 5 sources of false anxiety.
Steve’s latest book explores the gap between our belief and our experience.
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Are you on your own conscious list of relationships?
If not, this episode is for you. Host Steve Cuss is joined by his wife, Lisa, to chat about putting yourself on your conscious list of relationships, responding to your inner critic, and three simple ways to diffuse anxiety in any situation. Steve and Lisa discuss the Enneagram, opportunities for individual and collective growth, and how connecting with God can improve our sense of self.
This episode offers tangible practices for those who want to improve all types of relationships. These tools and more are featured in Steve’s latest book The Expectation Gap.
Visit Stevecusswords.com to access free courses that go along with this episode.
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Resources mentioned in this episode include:
The Enneagram
“Brené Brown on Comparative Suffering, the 50/50 Myth, and Settling the Ball”
Steve’s Free Courses
“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today
Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper
Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens
Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
Theme song by Dan Phelps
Original Music by Andy Gullahorn
Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris
Graphic Design: Amy Jones
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Love isn’t meant to be conditional, especially when it comes to our understanding of how God loves us. But this episode’s guest—pastor, author, and podcaster Luke Norsworthy—says we’re far too normalized to the idea that love is contingent upon how we practice our faith, obey, and function in general.
On this episode, Norsworthy and Cuss talk about whether or not the phrase “unconditional love” is redundant. They consider how family language can be misused and what it might look like to become more integrated in our lives. They talk about the parable of the prodigal son, what it is to be acquainted with grief as a believer, and how to process disappointment. Their conversation also covers celebrity pastors, loneliness, and the value of vulnerability.
The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here!
Resources mentioned in this episode include:
Luke Norsworthy
Norsworthy
How to Love the Life You Already Have: A Guide to Becoming the Person Life is Demanding You Be by Luke Norsworthy
Craft and Character with Luke Norsworthy
Herbert McCabe
The Prayers of the People
Pepperdine University
Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter
Curt Thompson
“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today
Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper
Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens
Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
Theme song by Dan Phelps
Original Music by Andy Gullahorn
Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris
Graphic Design: Amy Jones
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How can people connect with others without merging into them or letting them take over? How can we differentiate ourselves from one another while remaining connected in meaningful ways?
These are some of the questions that Being Human host Steve Cuss poses to his guests, Grace Liu and Cory Elisabeth. The founders of Pursue Inner Growth, a coaching and counseling service in Indonesia, Liu and Elisabeth share rich and nuanced thoughts on how culture, place, and heritage shape who we are.
Cuss speaks with Liu and Elisabeth about the unique challenges Southeast Asians face, the difference between an individualistic culture and a communal one, and how people can deal with both individual and communal shame. Their conversation covers some of the variances in Western and Asian psychology, such as what the idea of setting boundaries looks like in different cultures. Liu and Elisabeth walk through case studies of difficult interpersonal situations, discuss the implications of honor-shame culture, and share what they, as Indonesian women, wish that Cuss knew as a white man.
The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here!
“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today
Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper
Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens
Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
Theme song by Dan Phelps
Original Music by Andy Gullahorn
Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris
Graphic Design: Amy Jones
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Artist. Theologian. Immigrant.
These are the three words that come to mind for host Steve Cuss when he thinks of his guest, Phuc (Phu) Luu. On this episode, Luu responds to each of those terms, sharing how they make up who he is.
Cuss and Luu discuss what it means to take refuge and the meaning to be found in the fact that Jesus himself had to take sanctuary. They talk about art as a way to depict one's inner world and what motivates Luu to paint. Luu also reacts to the image of King Charles’ new portrait in real-time on the episode (which was recorded before the vandalization of the portrait by activists).
They also discuss Luu’s book Jesus of the East and its themes, including broken harmony, the restoration of Shalom, and the Korean term “han,” which means a sense of woundedness that is so deep there is no English equivalent. Luu also vulnerably shares what it’s like to be the only Vietnamese or minority culture person in the room.
Tune in for an episode that tenderly and powerfully considers ethnicity, belonging, and the Jesus who understands everything about who we are.
The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here!
Resources mentioned in this episode include:
Phuc Luu
People of the Way: Phuc Luu’s Notebook
Jesus of the East: Reclaiming the Gospel for the Wounded by Phuc Lu
Irenaeus of Lyons
Andrew Sung Park
Francis Bacon
King Charles’ portrait
“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today
Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper
Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens
Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
Theme song by Dan Phelps
Original Music by Andy Gullahorn
Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris
Graphic Design: Amy Jones
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How many minutes per week do you think you can be exactly yourself?
That’s the question that host Steve Cuss poses at the beginning of this episode, and it takes on specific meaning as he converses with his guest, Marvin Williams. Williams is the lead pastor of Trinity Church in Lansing, Michigan, and is currently earning his doctorate in systems theory, particularly as it pertains to the African-American experience. His forthcoming dissertation, My Whole Black Self, considers what it’s like to be exactly yourself and what happens when people cannot be exactly themselves.
Cuss and Williams discuss what drew Williams to systems theory, how leadership starts with personal transformation, and what it looks like to live in one’s identity fully. They talk about bullying, anxiety, and the Black writers, thinkers, and experts who have influenced Williams’ perspective. The two discuss connectedness, what it’s like to be in majority culture spaces, and how calmness is not always the opposite of anxiety. Their discussion also explores violence against Black Americans, the nuances of pastoring, and the role of politics in the life of the church.
The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available—order here!
Resources mentioned in this episode include:
Marvin Williams
A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin H. Friedman
Murray Bowen
Bowen family systems theory
Trisha Taylor
“To Belong to One Another: Remaining Calm and Curious in Times of High Anxiety” with Rich Villodas
The Souls of Black Folk from W.E.B. Du Bois
Psychological Storms: The African American Struggle for Identity by Thomas Parham
Charlie Dates
Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison
“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today
Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper
Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens
Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
Theme song by Dan Phelps
Original Music by Andy Gullahorn
Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris
Graphic Design: Amy Jones
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Gender dynamics in the workplace.
What to do when you’re the only one of your kind in the room.
The power dynamics and damage of the #MeToo and #ChurchToo scandals.
These are some of the heavy topics that Steve Cuss and his guest, leadership development expert Kadi Cole, consider on this episode of Being Human. Their conversation draws upon Cole’s years spent developing women leaders and working with diverse teams as one of the world’s foremost leaders in helping organizations navigate healthy gender dynamics.
Cuss and Cole talk about the ways people camouflage themselves to fit into a group, how men and women handle inner confidence differently, and what it looks like to be ourselves in Christ. Their discussion covers how leaders can cultivate safe environments that allow people to show up as they are, the effects of powerful leaders with unaddressed childhood wounds, and how Cole’s background as a nurse prepared her to engage executive leadership with a holistic perspective.
They also talk about Momentum Marketplace, Cole’s new initiative to help young, kingdom-minded leaders be mentored in the marketplace.
The Expectation Gap by Steve Cuss is now available!
Resources mentioned in this episode include:
Kadi ColeDeveloping Female Leaders: Navigate the Minefields and Release the Potential of Women in Your Church by Kadi Cole
Find Your Leadership Voice in 90 Days: How to show up, speak up, and stand out with confidence by Kadi Cole
“Code switching, covering, masking and social camouflage”
Momentum Marketplace
The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss
“Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today
Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper
Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens
Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry
Theme song by Dan Phelps
Original Music by Andy Gullahorn
Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris
Graphic Design: Amy Jones
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