Episodes
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How might we participate as Earthlings, part of a living planet, in kinship with the more-than-human?
Dan Burgess is a regenerative practitioner, creative strategist, and facilitator working at the intersection of ecology, culture, and transformation. With roots in the worlds of storytelling, activism, and systems innovation, Dan helps individuals and organizations reimagine their roles in a world undergoing profound change. He draws on years of experience in creative industries, participatory leadership, and place-based learning to design processes that foster deep connection, agency, and collective renewal. Dan is known for his work in cultivating regenerative mindsets and practices that align human activity with the rhythms and needs of the living world. He is the founder and host of Spaceship Earth, a podcast and platform for exploring how we might live with greater imagination and responsibility as crew members of a planet in crisis. At heart, Dan is a bridge-builderālinking the inner and outer, the personal and systemic, the practical and the poetic in service of a thriving future. We discuss:
š„„ The balance between trying to get more people on board with our transformative ideas and the need to put energy into how we are creating space in ourselves to create space;
š„„ How the culture of modernity is a passenger story, where few of us are benefiting from modernity, within humans and as humans;
š„„ How ideas are processes that move and drift through interactions with others and their ideas, a sort of confluence that is never isolated.
Check us out: www.coconut-thinking.com
Check out the Spaceship Earth podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-spaceship-earth-podcast/id1338946235
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What does it mean to nurture good relationships through regenerative education in these times we live in?
In this episode, I speak with the authors of the soon-to-be-published book, The Art of Regenerative Educatorship.
Bas is an associate professor in regenerative leadership at the Mission Zero Centre of Expertise at The Hague University of Applied Sciences, where he also serves on the management team of the Masterās in Sustainability Transitions. He lives in Dordrecht with his partner, writes novels, and is an avid gamer.
Mieke is an associate professor in Regenerative Education and Development at the University of Amsterdam, where she works within the international development studies programme and the Governance and Inclusive Development research group. She lives in Amsterdam with her partner and twins and is a committed Reiki practitioner and yoga teacher, engaged with the Reiki Regenerative Resource Development Community in The Hague.
Koen works as a regenerative educator at the University of Amsterdam. He teaches change-making within the Computational Social Sciences programme and supports interdisciplinary educators. He lives in Utrecht with his partner and dog, and draws deep inspiration from his intercultural connection with Turkey.
We discuss:
š„„ How regeneration invites us to become grounded in the project, connected with love to all life, to be present with all life in place, to have the courage to keep working, no matter the outcomes.
š„„ How we are complicit in the system, but we can be constructive disruptors and have the will to remain in the system in spite of its damaging effects.
š„„ How the process of writing the book was emergent and invited the reader as part of the process, opening up spaces for contextualized meaning-making.
Check us out: www.coconut-thinking.com
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Missing episodes?
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We honor Nyepi with this special episode, in which Charlotte Hankin interviews Benjamin Freud. Nyepi is the Balinese Day of Silence, and is a Hindu New Year celebration marked by 24 hours of complete stillness. No travel, no lights, no work, and no noise. It is a time for self-reflection and spiritual renewal.
We recorded this episode a few days after Nyepi and after that time of pause and gather. We discuss:
š„„ Regenerative education and how nothing goes beyond Natureās paradigm (referencing Denise DeLuca);
š„„ How education is part of a larger system that replicates itself, meaning education wonāt change without deeper systemic transformation;
š„„ How sometimes itās either/or, both/and, and even or/either.
Join us for this special episode and check us out: www.coconut-thinking.com
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How might we shift our educational practices to deepen studentsā ecological awareness, nurturing a culture of care and reciprocity with Earthās living systems?
In this episode, I speak with Katharine Burke. Katharine has been an educator for over 30 years, passionately advocating for ecological literacy, permaculture, and regenerative education. She currently teaches Geography and Social Studies at the secondary level, focusing her work on transformative ecological education projects. Katharineās masterās thesis, āRestorying our Connection to the Natural World,ā led to practical school initiatives including gardening programs, composting and seed studies, survival excursions, immersive nature camps, and integrating systems thinking across literature, geography, economics, and social studies. She authored EARTHWARDS, a practical guide reflecting educatorsā real-world experiences. Katharine also founded The Small Earth Institute to offer deep ecology and regenerative design training for teachers. We discuss:
š„„ How sometimes change starts with having the space to talk about what uncomfortable, challenging, or simply not spoken;
š„„ How building a value system requires building it with others,
š„„ How transformative education is about shifting perceptions, identities, and values, which, when coupled with ecological education, bring us to understand we participate in the web of life.
Check us out, www.coconut-thinking.com
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Do we have what it takes to change our ways to ones that work with, rather than against, life?
In this episode, I speak with Giles Hutchins. Giles is a leading voice in regenerative leadership and business transformation. With 30 years of experienceāincluding roles as Head of Transformation at KPMG and Global Sustainability Director at Atosāhe now focuses on guiding leaders and organizations toward more resilient, nature-inspired ways of working. Heās the author of books like The Illusion of Separation and Leading by Nature, and his new book is called Nature Works: Activating Regenerative Leadership Consciousness. Giles's work explores how businesses can move beyond outdated models to embrace a regenerative future. We discuss:
š„„ What it takes to lead in a world of complexity and change;
š„„ How the current mechanistic paradigm can at best help us cope with what is coming, what has already happened, and maybe not even help us cope for much longer;
š„„ How dynergy is a tension and conflict holds creative energy, which allows for emergence to come through;
š„„ Nature as natura naturans, the enabling process of becoming, not Nature as "out there."
Check us out www.coconut-thinking.com
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How might we weave stories together as a response to ecological breakdown, using sound to connect to place?
In this episode, I speak with Mike Edwards. Mike began his career researching climate change in the Southwest Pacific, where his workācited by the IPCCāwas among the first to explore ecocolonialism: how climate discourse is manipulated by the powerful to control those most affected. His research challenged dominant narratives, sparking debate among those reluctant to rethink the status quo. In 2015, he co-founded Sound Matters, pioneering work in sonic rewilding, regenerative soundscaping, and Integral Listening (IL). His book Soundscapes of Life is set for release in 2025. Beyond sound, Mike has been a Climate Change Advisor to The Elders Foundation, working with leaders like Kofi Annan and President Jimmy Carter ahead of COP21. He has lectured worldwide, led the Arts and Ecology programme at Dartington Arts, and founded InnerDigenous, a movement helping people reconnect with self and place for personal and planetary healing. We discuss:
š„„ How knowledge is co-created by place and when it travels, brings place with it;
š„„ How soundscapes are the stories of many, which force us to attend differently;
š„„ How we are not interconnected, because that might suggested we can become disconnected, rather, we are all entangled and vibrating, sometimes, if we are lucky, at the same frequencies.
Check us out, www.coconut-thinking.com
Check out www.sound-matters.com
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What happens when the way we see ourselves changes the way we see the world?
In this episode, I speak with Steffi Bednarek. Steffiās work explores the intersection of climate change, complexity thinking, and the human psyche. She is the Director of the Center for Climate Psychology. With over 25 years of experience in depth psychology, trauma-informed practice, complexity thinking, and climate psychology, she supports individuals and organisations in navigating the psychological impacts of the metacrisis while fostering resilience and healthy cultures. She is the author of Climate, Psychology, and Change, described as āa work of wisdom and radical ideasā by Satish Kumar and endorsed by Fritjof Capra, Bill McKibben, and Nora Bateson. We discuss:
š„„ How our identities might shift in different ways depending on how we draw the boundaries, which changes our resonance with/as the world;
š„„ How silencing others because they do not agree with us is not the solution to creating spaces for understanding;
š„„ Our (in-)capacities to manage the inundation of information that comes our way, and how we might better adapt so as to flourish at best and avoid trauma at minimum.
Check us out: www.coconut-thinking.com
And check out the Center for Climate Psychology: https://climate-psychology-change.squarespace.com/
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How might leadership open more emergent spaces in schools?
This is the first in a series of episodes throughout the year where we invite educators and practitioners to explore how they might share their time, talents, and gifts to uplift others. As we delve into their stories, we ask our guests what contributions they envision making in the spirit of generosity and regeneration. This isnāt about the spotlightāitās about the offering.
In this episode, I speak with Leslie Medema, Head of Campus at Green School Bali. Leslie has held various roles at Green School, including head, curriculum developer, career counsellor, and, above all, educator. Her background spans work in NGOs and policymaking across industries. While she may be in the jungle, Leslie never forgets her roots in South Dakota. She brings a wealth of experience in starting innovative schools, aligning vision with lived experiences, and guiding organizations from unproductive chaos to emergent possibilities. We discuss:
š„„ How to grow an organization in the midst of (controlled chaos) in ways that build capacity and foster community;
š„„ The importance of knowing and articulating why we learn and teach something and how this makes our local or global world a better place;
š„„ How being comfortable with uncertainty is never going to be an easy rideāstories from Green School over the past 13 years
Check us out www.coconut-thinking.com
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How might we learn (and teach) to navigate uncertainty when the system rewards final answers?
Dave Cormier is an internationally renowned educational thinker specializing in the intersection of technology and pedagogy. He coined the term MOOC in 2008 and pioneered open and rhizomatic learning. His work on creativity and uncertainty in education is taught globally. In 2024, he published Learning in a Time of Abundance: The Community Is the Curriculum with Johns Hopkins University Press. Recently, Dave facilitated an international online conference for educators and will be a visiting academic at Deakin University for the CRADLE symposium on Generative AI and Work-Integrated Learning. As the Interim Director of Curriculum Development and Delivery, Open Learning at Thompson Rivers University, he advances digital learning strategies in the GenAI era, supporting student experiences with practical and strategic solutions. We discuss:
š„„ How a single adult engaging with a few studentsāwhen replicated locally and globallyāmight be the response we need to face the metacrisis.
š„„ How learners of all ages donāt need to have every tool at their disposal when confronting uncertainty, but rather need to know how to respond, what to do, and where to learn to navigate it effectively.
š„„ How the most important literacy of the 21st century is humilityāthe ability to say, āI donāt know, but letās learn together.ā
Check us out at www.coconut-thinking.com
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How might sound reshape our understanding of and nurture new relationships with the living world?
In this episode, I speak with Louise Romain. Louise works as an anthropologist, an imagination activist (with Moral Imaginations) and a podcast producer. She campaigns for multispecies justice and Indigenous rights through grassroots organising, relationship building and media production. With her show āCircle of Voicesā, she produces short stories, spoken word and immersive sound journeys, crafted as invitations to dream deeper into possible and desirable futures while engaging with themes of socio-political and environmental justice. She is fascinated by the potential of acoustic ecology to weave listeners into the sacred web of life and to support ecosystem regeneration. Louise is part of the Communications Team of the Womenās Caucus of the Convention on Biological Diversity, a 2024 Fellow of The Bio-Leadership Project and an active member of Earth Decides. We discuss:
š„„ Multispecies justice as supporting all species to thrive alongside humans, appreciating that survival depends on water, the land, the airāa healthful planet;
š„„ How sound asks us to slow down and open ourselves to different relationships with the living world of which we are part, noticing what we aren't used to noticing when we rely primarily on our sight;
š„„ Inclusion of the more-than-human and how inclusion might require exclusion, and leaving a part of us behind in order to be included.
Check us out www.coconut-thinking.com
Find out more about Louise's work on her website https://tuneintotheworld.com/ and follow her on social media @ālou_romain_ and @ācircleofvoices.
Find her podcast here.
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What happens when we tune into sound to make sense of our world? How might noticing sounds and silences tell us more about place?
In this episode, Charlotte and I speak with Melissa Pons. Melissa is a field recordist and award-winning sound designer based in Portugal. Throughout her years of practice, she has independently released field recording albums, music compositions upon commission and her work has been streamed and featured in several media, like the BBC, NPR, The Guardian and Bandcamp Daily. Her personal work orbits around the more-than-human world and our complex relationship with it, and wild animals are a big source of inspiration for thinking, listening, writing, making music and the landscapes she seeks. Currently sheās working as a curator and podcast producer at the streaming platform earth.fm and works seasonally with sound design for audio dramas at Hemlock Creek Productions. We discuss:
š„„ How sound forces us to slow down, to take time to notice, in ways that photos cannot, creating a different kind of embodied experience;
š„„ How sounds tell stories of what is there and what is no longer there, which provides data that we aren't used to noticing;
š„„ The relationship between people and place to sound, and the stories these tell.
This is the first episode in our two-part series on sound. We hope that educators will consider sound over written text as means of learning, feeling, and expression.
Check us out www.coconut-thinking.com.
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How might Biomimicry help us understand the context of a problem in order for us to respond locally, not with one-size-fits-all solutions?
In this episode, I speak with Bronwen Main and Frank Burridge. Bronwen is a landscape architect and co-founder of Main Studio, where she focuses on sustainable, nature-inspired designs that transform urban spaces. Her work emphasizes ecological restoration, community well-being, and biodiversity, creating environments that encourage peopleās communion with nature. Bronwen also contributes as a lecturer and mentor, sharing her expertise with emerging architects. Through her innovative projects and community engagement, she promotes environmentally responsible design practices that blend aesthetics with ecological integrity and sustainable urban living.
Frank is an architect and co-founder of Main Studio, a creative practice that blends architecture, art, and landscape design with ecological and community-focused principles. As a Teaching Associate at Monash University and a registered architect with the Architects Registration Board of Victoria, Frank is known for his innovative, sustainable projects. His work includes high-profile projects like Zac Efronās planned āFuturecaveā in New South Wales, embodying his commitment to creating functional, environmentally harmonious spaces.
Bronwen and Frank are the architects (along with Ibuku) who are designing Green School' Biomimicry for Regenerative Design Lab, a first of its kind space in a K-12 school, where learners of all ages come together to explore and apply biomimicry principles for regenerative design We discuss:
š„„ How biomimicry provides hope because we learn [from/as/with] Nature, which has already tested out infinite problems for over 3.8 billion years (at least!);
š„„ The design process behind Green School's Biomimicry for Regenerative Design Lab, in which students and educators participated, as did the Natural world and the contact of Bali, education, and the current state of the world;
š„„ How Biomimicry allows us to understand our place in Place, which is fundamental to opening up new possibilities for learning in schools and beyond.
Check us out: www.coconut-thinking.com
Learn more about Green School Bali: www.greenschool.org/bali
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How might biomimicry be an ethical approach to a thriving planet rather than just another way to make cool products for money?
In this episode, I speak with Henry Dicks. Henry is an environmental philosopher and philosopher of technology. He holds a doctorate from the University of Oxford and lectures in environmental philosophy and ethics at University Jean Moulin Lyon 3 and Shanghai University and in the philosophy of biomimicry at the Institut SupƩrieur de Design de Saint-Malo. We discuss:
š„„ Nature as measure, not in the qualitative sense, but rather as an ethical compass that guides us to respond in ways to life
š„„ Biomimicry as a move away from anthropocentrism through the reconsiderations of our relationships as Nature.
š„„ Biomimicry as a model for AI and the possibilities expanding toward more-than-human intelligences in AI.
This is the second of a 3-part series on Biomimicry, looking at the relational, ethical, and process of Biomimicry.
Check us out: www.coconut-thinking.com
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How might we create participatory, community-based technologies inspired from Nature with the interests of life in mind?
In this episode, I speak with Daniel Kinzer. Daniel is the founder of Pacific Blue Studios, a network of youth-powered exploration, design and innovation studios leveraging biomimicry, traditional ecological knowledge and conservation technologies and focused on co-creating thriving, regenerative communities across Hawai'i and around our blue planet. He is an educator, designer, adventurer and ocean lover, and has spent over a decade living and learning across more than 70 countries and all 7 continents, including an expedition to Antarctica as a Grosvenor Teacher Fellow with National Geographic. We discuss:
š„„ Being comfortable in the absence of language and tuning into how our human and other-than-human kin communicate;
š„„ Biomimicry and indigenous knowledge ask us to quiet our cleverness, having humility, and neither is for anybody to own, run away from, or have exclusive to anyone;
š„„ Eco-anxiety as āI donāt know who I am anymore,ā as ego-anxiety.
This is the first of a 3-part series on Biomimicry, looking at the relational, ethical, and process of Biomimicry.
Check us out: www.coconut-thinking.com
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How might knowledge be co-created as a process of relationships between humans, other-than-humans, and the land?
In this episode, I speak with Tyson Yunkaporta. Tyson is an Aboriginal scholar, founder of the Indigenous Knowledge Systems Lab at Deakin University in Melbourne, and author of Sand Talk and most recently Right Story, Wrong Story. His work focuses on applying Indigenous methods of inquiry to resolve complex issues and explore global crises. Tyson currently works at the Faculty of Arts and Education, Deakin University as Senior Lecturer Indigenous Knowledges. We discuss:
š„„ Transknowledging as interactions between human/human and human/other-than-human that are co-created by place and time;
š„„ The "gold rush on Indigenous knowledge" and how we might work with and through the tensions this creates to learn from each other;
š„„ Enlightenment 2.0: its shortcuts, (false) promises, and how the great re-branding.
Check us out: www.coconut-thinking.com
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How might ethics world the futures our generation will leave behind? How might education respond within the climate context?
In this episode, I speak with Peter Sutoris. Peter is an environmental anthropologist and assistant professor in climate and development at the University of Leedsā Sustainability Research Institute. He is the author of the books āVisions of Developmentā and āEducating for the Anthropocene,ā and coauthor of the forthcoming āDevelopment Reimagined.ā He is a researcher, writer and educator, and has spent over a decade working on issues of education, health and social development. We discuss:
š„„ How we might confront the underlying patterns of extraction rather than hope for technology to make tweaks in the existing system;
š„„ What happens to ethics if we care about what life was before I was born and what will happen after we die?
š„„ What needs to change in our thinking, in our stories, and what might the system accept and what might it resist.
Check us out www.coconut-thinking. com
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How might cultivating local relationships with humans and the more-than-human contribute to overall planetary health?
In this episode, I speak with Pim Martens. Pim has a PhD in applied mathematics and biological sciences. He is a professor of Planetary Health and dean of Maastricht University College Venlo. Pim has been a professor of Sustainable Development for 18 years and is currently the project leader and principal investigator of several projects related to planetary health, sustainability science and education, and human-animal-nature relationships. Pim Martens is a scientist and founder of AnimalWise, a āthink and do tankā integrating scientific knowledge and animal advocacy to bring about sustainable change in our relationship with animals. Furthermore, he was the founding Director of the Maastricht University Graduate School of Sustainability Science (MUST) and initiated the M.Sc. program in Sustainability Science and Policy. We discuss:
š„„ The importance of developing empathy for non-human animals for a kinder world, including between humans;
š„„ How sustainability and regeneration begin with how we treat all living things;
š„„ How planetary health might reframe how we understand the networks of our interconnections.
Check us out: www.coconut-thinking.com
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How do we nurture radical human relationships through authentic stories of learning?
In this episode, I speak with Virgel Hammonds. Virgel is a nationally recognized leader in education innovation. He became CEO of the Aurora Institute in 2024, bringing over two decades of experience in learner-centered education. Formerly Chief Learning Officer at KnowledgeWorks, Virgel has partnered with national policymakers and local communities to redesign learning systems. He has also served as superintendent in Maine and high school principal in California, where he implemented personalized, mastery-based learning models. Virgel is an active board member for several educational organizations, continuing his mission to transform education for all learners.
The Aurora Institute is a pioneering organization focused on advancing competency-based education frameworks. It champions personalized, learner-centered approaches, ensuring students progress based on mastery rather than seat time. The institute collaborates with educators, policymakers, and communities to redesign learning systems, promoting equity and deeper learning for all students.
We discuss:
š„„ Shifting from school systems to communities of learning, recognizing learning as a 24/7, anywhere journey;
š„„ Listening to voices from the entire community to bring in local values, while creating connections with wider networks.
š„„ Showing up with authenticity in order to deepen our relationships, with courage and vulnerability.
Check us out www.coconut-thinking.com
You can find the Aurora Institute on https://aurora-institute.org/
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How is place an emergent, relational experience, rather than a fixed location?
In this special episode, Charlotte and Benjamin speak alongside the sounds of Paris to create a conversation that includes the city. We come to Europe every couple of years to visit family, and this year we will also drop my son off to university. We recorded this episode in raw form, so we can be immersed in experience. We discuss:
š„„ How place creates the conditions for agency to emerge;
š„„ How learning experiences might be designed with emergence in mind, that is, with enabling constraints that nurture inquiry and the unexpected, without giving way to "anything goes;"
š„„ Specific examples of learner projects that have contributed to life and led to deeper learning (and yes, outcomes).
Come be part of this conversation that is alive with the city. When we listen to the stories around us, we appreciate that Nature is everywhere because we are Nature.
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How might we commit to change in order to create conditions for deeper learning and put students first?
In this episode, I speak with Kyle Wagner. Kyle is an education consultant and founder of Transform Educational Consulting (TEC). He specializes in empowering schools to create socially, emotionally, and globally aware citizens through project-based learning. With over 20 years of experience, Kyle has worked with numerous schools worldwide, helping design more than 500 learning experiences. He previously served as the coordinator for Futures Academy at the International School of Beijing and as a project-based learning leader at High Tech High. Kyle is the author of "The Power of Simple," which provides strategies for school transformation. We discuss:
š„„ How changes in the physical environment can augment or constrain deeper learning;
š„„ How artifacts of learning are touch points in journeys of learning rather than ends in themselves;
š„„ How no matter where you are, or think you are, you can make a shift toward more student-centered learning.
Check us out www.coconut-thinking.com
And look Kyle up on https://transformschool.com/
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