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Paul Maroni, MD is a urologic oncologist at the University of Colorado in Denver. He is a repeat guest on OWZ (#41. Joy in the Service of Others… https://www.buzzsprout.com/1811662/10549621) and a good friend. We share an interest in the physical health of our patients and ourselves as physicians and surgeons. This conversation focuses on practical strategies (and the science behind them) to optimize physical health and well-being through movement, exercise, and nutrition. There is no perfect work-out routine or diet. But being mindful and intentional about how you care for your body and what you want out of your physical being are the first steps to a healthy and sustainable career and beyond! We discuss lots of external resources and links are provided in the notes. Enjoy!
Slow Carb Diet, Tim Ferriss: https://tim.blog/2012/07/12/how-to-lose-100-pounds/
Nature Wants Us To Be Fat, by Richard Johnson (Amazon): https://a.co/d/fvubmJp
Knees Over Toes Guy (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/c/thekneesovertoesguy
By Peter Attia:
Outlive (Amazon): https://a.co/d/0FIdViJ
On Huberman Lab Podcast:
(web) https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/dr-peter-attia-improve-vitality-emotional-and-physical-health-and-lifespan(YouTube) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufsIA5NARIo
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Scott MacDiarmid, MD is a private practice urologist in Greensboro, North Carolina and the author of “Fist Pumps” – a self-help book to lift up physicians and healthcare providers who serve (https://www.amazon.com/Fist-Pumps-Scott-MacDiarmid/dp/1088078184). Similar to my journey in Operative with Zen, Scott wrote the book thinking, “If I can help one other person.” We talk about the stresses of being a physician and surgeon in modern American healthcare and strategies to deal with that stress. Finding purpose, developing (what Scott calls) a suit of armor through mindfulness and gratitude, and seeking your own personal mountaintop – where you find peace, joy, virtue, and contentment – allow us to limit our exposure to the inevitable and deep valleys of burnout. Lastly, Scott encourages us to care for ourselves and care for our communities as we serve those around us. Enjoy this conversation!
Fist Pumps (Amazon): https://www.amazon.com/Fist-Pumps-Scott-MacDiarmid/dp/1088078184
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Caprice Greenberg, MD, MPH is the Chair of the Department of Surgery at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a Surgical Oncologist. She is the President and Co-founder of the Academy for Surgical Coaching (https://surgicalcoaching.org/) and is responsible for most of the academic literature regarding surgical coaching and outcomes directly or inspirationally. We talk through the basics of surgical coaching from the operating room to the clinic, executive coaching through professional development for junior surgeons. We talk about the practicalities of coaching: who should be coaching, who should be coaching, and what are the good qualities for both. And we discuss all the ways coaching can be delivered – through personal coaches, intraoperative video assessments, and organizations like the Academy for Surgical Coaching. Enjoy!
The Academy for Surgical Coaching: https://surgicalcoaching.org/Dr. Greenberg’s Publications on Coaching (Pubmed Search): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Greenberg+CC+AND+coaching
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Ms. Nadine Coull, MBBS, MS, FRCS (Urol) is the Deputy Medical Director of the National Health Services (NHS) and President of the Urology Section of the Royal Society of Medicine. In addition, she is the Deputy Medical Director of Kingston Hospital. Nadine never envisioned herself as a leader of a hospital, hospital system, or the NHS – but through deep beliefs in compassion and kindness found herself rising through the leadership ranks first locally then nationally. She is a strong believer in boundaries – professionally and personally – to promote health and wellness. We touch on her presidential address, The One with the Pink Bag, offering perspectives of being a strong woman in medical leadership. And she gives us unique perspective on leadership with an international angle – allowing us to compare and contrast promotions and leadership in the US and the UK. We arrive on an important similarity – “Don’t underestimate the power of kindness.” I hope you enjoy, I certainly did.
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Dr. Mick Malotte, MD is a retired ENT surgeon from California who has been practicing mindfulness as a surgeon for over 30 years. Not only does Mick practice mindfulness through a daily practice and retreats, but he teaches mindfulness to physicians and surgeons around the country! Mick gives us a brief history of mindfulness in medicine and helps us understand how mindfulness practices are adopted to medicine and surgery. We talk about burnout, data and physiology, and the religious and social implications of widespread mindfulness practices! Importantly, Mick gives us easy-to-perform micro practices that can be performed within our daily practices to be better surgeons, physicians, and human beings. If you are interested in talking with Mick or exploring mindfulness training at your institution, reach out to Mick through his website. Enjoy!
https://www.mickmalotte.com/
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“All healthcare is delivered through relationships.” This is the key statement from this episode of OWZ and highlights that effective communication is a key component of delivering excellent patient care. Marissa Theofanides, MD is a urologist at Montefiore in the Bronx and expert in communication skills. She is certified by the Academy of Communication in Healthcare (https://achonline.org/) whose motto is “Better Communication. Better Relationships. Better Care.” In this podcast, we help you understand that communication is a skill – a skill that can be taught, practiced, and improved upon just like throwing a suture or writing a clinic note. Dr. Theofanides lays out a framework to improve your clinic communications that is rooted in mindfulness! Setting an agenda, creating space for effective communication, and assessing understanding highlight the mindful principles of intention, presence, and non-judgement. There’s lots of practical knowledge in this discussion and it promises to make your clinical interactions and your life better! Enjoy!!!
Academy of Communication in Healthcare (ACH): https://achonline.org/
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Dr. Angela Smith is a frequent flyer on the Operate with Zen podcast. She is guru to me and many others for life hacks and practical, personal improvements to be more efficient and to have more ease and enjoyment in our daily routine. In this podcast, we discuss “A Day of Reflection” – what exactly that means, how to set one up, and how to make it successful. A day of reflection creates the opportunity to be present for oneself, to assess prior performance (in a non-judgmental way), and to set intentions (or goals) for an upcoming period of time. Periodic days of reflection will prevent you from aimlessly getting caught up in life. They will empower you to feel productive and fulfilled no matter if in your personal or professional life. This podcast is full of practical tips to help you achieve that Day of Reflection and the benefits moving forward. Enjoy!
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Dr. Kelly Casperson, MD is a surgical rockstar!!! … a urologist and sexual medicine expert, a extremely successful podcaster, author and now Ted-Talker! Kelly hosts the “You Are Not Broken” podcast (https://www.kellycaspersonmd.com/podcast) which empowers women (“and the partners who love them”) with science and conversations to break down sexuality improve the intimate lives of the tens of thousands who listen each month! But we are not talking about sexuality in today’s podcast… not really. Dr. Casperson and I discuss her journey to find purpose and how her true self re-emerged after years of surgical training and practice. We discuss mindfulness and personality traits, and how a better understanding of yourself and those that surround you enhance our ability to be phenomenal surgeons and doctors. And yes, human sexuality serves as the backdrop for the entire conversation. Woven in and out of the context of our lives, understanding sexuality by understanding self, communication, and personal interactions leads us to a more mindful existence and relationships with our intimate partners and others. Enjoy!
"You Are Not Broken" Podcast: https://www.kellycaspersonmd.com/podcast
"You Are Not Broken" Book (Amazon): https://a.co/d/hdI7JPT
Ted Talk: https://youtu.be/rqI6YKLmdlk -
Being a cancer surgeon can be tough. Being a cancer patient even tougher. Brian Lane, MD is facing both daily. He is an accomplished surgeon and academic urologic oncologist. In this thoughtful and honest discussion, we cover facing tough diagnoses as a patient and a surgeon; developing perspective as a patient to help our patients; finding purpose and meaning despite tough circumstances; and ultimately finding peace in faith and community. This conversation is inspirational and grounding. I hope you enjoy.
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Kevin Turner, MA, DM, FRCS (Urology) is a Consultant Urological Surgeon at Royal Bournemouth Hospital. In 2015, he helped to start the Surgeon Wellbeing Research Team with colleagues from the Department of Psychology at Bournemouth University. Kevin and team ran a UK national survey from 2016-2019 – data from which has helped us understand how complications affect surgeons, the pervasiveness of this issue, and helped to create important objective measures and definitions in the field – like the difference between complications and errors. They also ran a randomized trial of resilience training in surgical trainees based on ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy). Since then, Kevin has become a leader and mainstay at academic meetings bringing our understanding of the impact of adverse events and complications into a major spotlight. Backed by data, but full of tremendous personal insight, this conversation is a must listen for surgeons who are interested in understanding why complications hurt us and how we can alleviate that impact to better care for our patients and ourselves.
More from Dr. Turner:Surgery Harms Surgeons. What Can We Do? Journal of Urology. https://www.auajournals.org/doi/10.1097/JU.0000000000002861
Turner, K., Bolderston, H., Thomas, K., Greville-Harris, M., Withers, C. & McDougall, S (2022). Impact of adverse events on surgeons, British Journal of Surgery, 2022. https://doi.org/10.1093/bjs/znab447
Bolderston, H., Greville-Harris, M., Thomas, K., Kane, A., & Turner, K. (2020). Resilience and surgeons: train the individual or change the system? The Bulletin of the Royal College of Surgeons of England, 102:6, 244-247. https://doi.org/10.1308/rcsbull.2020.170
https://podcasts.ox.ac.uk/impact-complications-and-errors-surgeons
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Jeff Bloovman, BSN, RN, is an operating room nurse with really unique interests and perspectives on life. He has been an actor and director, is currently a firearms and combat instructor as well as an avid practitioner and instructor of Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Like many of us, Jeff is also challenged by an extremely active mind. What do all of these experiences have in common? They are all enhanced through mindfulness practices. Whether focusing on a gun, your combatant, a theatre scene, or a busy operating room – being in the moment, both enjoying the moment and focusing in the present, can enhance the experience and the outcome. I hope you enjoy this really fun conversation, I did!
Below are some of the links referenced throughout Jeff’s conversation:
Practically Tactical Podcast: https://www.practicallytactical.com/episodes
Rolling Stone:
Pink Pistols: LGBT Gun Owners Unite in Arming Gay Community https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/pink-pistols-lgbt-gun-owners-unite-in-arming-gay-community-177899/
Washington Post:
For years, he tried to get other gay people to the gun range. Would they come now? https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/for-years-he-tried-to-get-other-gay-people-to-the-gun-range-would-they-come-now/2016/06/21/0f672b02-3724-11e6-9ccd-d6005beac8b3_story.html
Huffington Post Video:
At The Shooting Range With The Pink Pistols, A Gay Gun Group https://www.huffpost.com/entry/at-the-shooting-range-with-the-pink-pistols-a-gay-gun-group_n_5b4f4938e4b004fe162f865e
The Feed YouTube: Gays & Guns: Fighting homophobia with bullets - YouTube
One Man Army (Discovery Channel): Season 1, Episode 1
https://www.discovery.com/shows/one-man-army/episodes/brothers-in-arms -
Andrew Gabrielson, MD (@urogabe) is currently a resident at the Brady Urological Institute and Department of Urology at Johns Hopkins. He is a budding pediatric urologist and developed an interest in surgical ergonomics and physical well-being before he started residency. He is an integral member of the Society of Surgical Ergonomics and well-published in the field despite his young age! He gives us lots of practical knowledge for the operating room (how to stand, how to set up your room, gel pads and shoes!) and a framework for incorporating ergonomics as a thought process to enhance our physical well-being as surgeons. In addition, he talks about his experience and how following an interest piqued during undergraduate and medical school turned into a passion for the remainder of his professional life! Enjoy! Lots of links below including data supporting a lot of the discussion.
Society of Surgical Ergonomics
https://www.societyofsurgicalergonomics.org/
Twitter: @SocSurgErgo
Epidemiology of work-related pain among surgeons
Epstein, S. et al. Prevalence of work- related musculoskeletal disorders among surgeons and interventionalists: a systematic review and meta-analysis. JAMA Surg. 153, e174947–e174947 (2018).
Stucky, C. H. et al. Surgeon symptoms, strain, and selections: systematic review and meta- analysis of surgical ergonomics. Ann. Med. Surg. 27, 1–8 (2018)
Intraoperative and perioperative stretching
Park, A. E. et al. Intraoperative “Micro Breaks” with targeted stretching enhance surgeon physical function and mental focus: a multicenter cohort study. Ann. Surg. 265, 340–346 (2017).
Hallbeck, M. S. et al. The impact of intraoperative microbreaks with exercises on surgeons: a multicenter cohort study. Appl. Ergon. 60, 334–341 (2017).
Dorion, D. & Darveau, S. Do micropauses prevent surgeon’s fatigue and loss of accuracy associated with prolonged surgery? An experimental prospective study. Ann. Surg. 257, 256–259 (2013).
Monitor Placement
van Det, M. J., Meijerink, W. J., Hoff, C., Totte, E. R. & Pierie, J. P. Optimal ergonomics for laparoscopic surgery in minimally invasive surgery suites: a review and guidelines. Surg. Endosc. 23, 1279–1285 (2009).
Omar, A. M., Wade, N. J., Brown, S. I. & Cuschieri, A. Assessing the benefits of “gaze- down” display location in complex tasks. Surg. Endosc. 19, 105–108 (2005).
Erfanian, K., Luks, F. I., Kurkchubasche, A. G., Wesselhoeft, C. W. Jr. & Tracy, T. F. Jr. In- line image projection accelerates task performance in laparoscopic appendectomy. J. Pediatr. Surg. 38, 1059–1062 (2003).
Hanna, G. B., Shimi, S. M. & Cuschieri, A. Task performance in endoscopic surgery is influenced by location of the image display. Ann. Surg. 227, 481–484 (1998).
Table Height
Berguer, R., Smith, W. D. & Davis, S. An ergonomic study of the optimum operating table height for laparoscopic surgery. Surg. Endosc. 16, 416–421 (2002).
van Veelen, M. A., Kazemier, G., Koopman, J., Goossens, R. H. & Meijer, D. W. Assessment of the ergonomically optimal operating surface height for laparoscopic surgery. J. Laparoendosc. Adv. Surg. Tech. A. 12, 47–52 (2002).
Manasnayakorn, S., Cuschieri, A. & Hanna, G. B. Ergonomic assessment of optimum operating table height for hand- assisted laparoscopic surgery. Surg. Endosc. 23, 783–789 (2009).
Gel mats
Haramis, G. et al. Prospective randomized evaluation of FOOT gel pads for operating room staff COMFORT during laparoscopic renal surgery. Urology 76, 1405–1408 (2010).
Graversen, J. A. et al. Prospective randomized evaluation of gel mat foot pads in the endoscopic suite. J. Endourol. 25, 1793–1796 (2011).
Cognitive Ergonomics
Chrouser KL
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Physical ailments are a part of life, and all surgeons will encounter physical pain or injury in their career. Good friends and fellow surgeons, Angela Smith, MD, and Jay Shah, MD, (and repeat guests on the show) are no strangers to injuries. In this podcast we discuss chronic and acute physical injuries from diagnosis through long-term changes to our surgical and work-out routines. Coping mechanisms, management of pain in the operating room, adjustments to workouts, and evolution of personal identity are all discussed in this fun and inspirational hour. If you have struggled or are struggling with a physical injury, this podcast is for you. Enjoy!
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Dr. Joan Naidorf, DO (https://www.drjoannaidorf.com/) is an Emergency Room physician who, through clinical experience, developed expertise in managing the difficult patient. She is the author of “Changing How We Think About Difficult Patients: A Guide for Physicians And Healthcare Professionals” (https://a.co/d/fWLWY5W) and was featured in a Washington Post article on the topic (Some doctors don’t like some patients - The Washington Post). While not being explicitly “mindful,” her approach to understanding and managing “difficult” situations employs concepts of intention, presence, and a non-judgmental approach to situations we all experience in healthcare. Throughout this podcast, she will help you understand why patients may behave poorly and how our reactions and interactions may improve the experience. I hope you enjoy!
Website: https://www.drjoannaidorf.com/
Book: https://a.co/d/fWLWY5W
Washington Post: Some doctors don’t like some patients - The Washington Post
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Jeremy Grummet, MBBS, Master of Surgery, FRACS is a urologist in Melbourne, Australia and a world leader in prostate cancer imaging and diagnostics. He is also a deep thinker and deeply interested in the wellbeing of surgeons and his colleagues. Our conversation meanders through personal struggle, burnout or "spin" as Dr. Grummet calls it, mental illness, and emotional challenges associated with life and surgery. Core concepts of modeling vulnerability, the dichotomy between being a caregiver and a recipient of care, as well as self care are woven throughout the conversation. Jeremy is a master of thought and process, you will love this conversation.
Some of the books and references discussed:
School of Life, by Alain de Botton
Waking Up, by Sam Harris
Thriving Doctor, by Sharee Johnson
Know Thyself, by Craig Hassed -
Dr. Carter Lebares, MD is a Gastrointestinal Surgeon at the University of California San Francisco and the Director of the UCSF Center for Mindfulness in Surgery. In addition to being a thoughtful and skilled surgeon, she ran two randomized trials incorporating mindfulness based practices into surgery. She developed ESRT or Enhanced Stress Resilience Training from principles of John Kabat-Zinn’s Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) to specifically apply to surgeons and surgical training. With focused lessons and practical exposure Dr. Lebares has shown objectively that improvements in attentional focus, emotional recognition, and cognitive reappraisal learned through mindfulness translate into better surgical performance and training in and out of the operating room. She tells us her story, how mindfulness impacted her career and continues to impact her development as a surgeon and human. Dr. Lebares is one of my inspirations as we try to spread the benefits of a mindful approach to surgery and I enjoy every moment I get to speak with her. I hope you enjoy as well!!
UCSF Center for Mindfulness in Surgery: https://mindfulsurgeon.ucsf.edu/
Randomized Trial in JAMA Network Open: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2734060
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Bradley Block, MD is an otolaryngologist in New York and founder of the “Physician’s Guide to Doctoring” podcast. The founding principle of the Physician’s Guide is “all the stuff we should have learned in medical school but didn’t.” While we only have an hour, we cover a lot of it! We talk personal and professional development, social engineering and how it impacts patient and personal interactions, and vulnerabilities as a busy surgeon in a busy practice. We settle on intention and exploring the WHY of so many things we do in medicine hoping the break the cycle of inefficiencies, improve our daily lives, and make the field better. I really enjoy talking to Brad and I hope you do too! Check out his podcast, the variety of topics are sure to grab your attention, and listen to some of the great guests he has interviewed!!!
Physician’s Guide to Doctoring Website: https://physiciansguidetodoctoring.com/
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/physicians-guide-to-doctoring-with-bradley-b-block-md/id1429047634
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5 minute breathwork exercise.
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Dharam Kaushik, MD is a urologic oncologist who does big time cancer surgeries. He is also a researcher and educator at the University of Texas San Antonio where he runs the urologic oncology fellowship program and leads the kidney cancer research program. Despite an upbringing in India and early exposure, he only recently picked up yoga as an outlet for wellness in his life. We explore yoga and mindfulness as strategies to combat burnout and stress at work, but expand the discussion to other forms of physical activity that can improve our surgical well-being. During the COVID pandemic, Dharam was certified as a yoga instructor and now expands his practice to healthcare workers at UT San Antonio – offering free classes to any employee or student who is interested. And he doesn’t take it easy on them! He talks and teaches about suffering and struggle in a yoga class as a great metaphor for surgery and life. I love talking with Dharam and I hope you do too. If interested in a yoga class or experience at a urology meeting, please find Dharam or I and join us or we can help to set it up.
And stay tuned for some bonus content! Dharam will take us through a breathwork exercise that you can use anytime to prepare for surgery, destress, or as part of your mindfulness routine.
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Michelle Quirk, MD is a pediatrician and pediatric hospitalist in the Philadelphia area. She is also a certified run coach and started Mindful Marathon (mindful-marathon.com) to help busy professionals develop well-being through running and fitness. Importantly, Michelle was not always a runner, but over the years learned how to engage with her own personal wellness through running and fitness. That engagement led to the Mindful Marathon passion project – by which trains doctors and other busy professionals how to run and coaches them through short- and long-distance challenges. We talk about Michelle’s journey into running, how a pledge to patients to get healthier inspired her to be healthier and how running became a great stress outlet for her. WE take many analogies from the running world and bring them into medicine and surgery including training, nutrition, and recovery. I love talking to Michelle, I hope you enjoy too!
If interested in learning more about Michelle or having her be your run coach, you can find her at:
Mindful-Marathon.com
YouTube: @MindfulMarathon
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