Episodes
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How can you reduce the environmental impact of your cat or dog? What’s the best way to prepare for climate breakdown? And how should you talk to children about climate? Christiana, Paul and Tom wrap up the year by answering an eclectic and insightful selection of your questions.
Plus: they digest the fourth and final COP of the year, known as the Desertification COP, which took place in December in Saudi Arabia and reflect on their own feelings at the end of a challenging year for the climate movement.
Huge thanks to our community of listeners for all the great questions submitted and all the support this year. Apologies if we didn’t get to your question this time but do keep sending them our way. See you in 2025!
NOTES AND RESOURCES
Learn more about the Paris Agreement.
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Ben Rhodes—writer, political commentator, and former Deputy National Security Advisor under President Obama—joins the host team to dissect the challenges of a Trump 2.0 administration.
Rhodes issues a bold call for a new "climate populist" strategy, to redirect the populist right-wing outrage over climate action toward exposing the oil and gas industry's stranglehold on climate negotiations, as seen at recent COP summits.
Christiana, Tom, Paul, plus special guest Fi Macklin, invite Rhodes to explore themes of strong leadership, the shifting dynamics of geopolitics, Trump’s appeal to the U.S. electorate, and how the world could navigate global climate politics without the US over the next four years?
NOTES AND RESOURCESGUESTS
Ben Rhodes, writer, political commentator, and national security analyst
Website | Twitter (X) | Instagram
Fiona Macklin, Senior Advisor on Groundswell, Global Optimism
LinkedIn
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This week, Christiana, Tom and Paul tackle the latest on the global plastics treaty (known as INC-5), which ended last week without a deal. Why were countries unable to agree a deal despite the huge amount of public concern about plastic pollution? What pathways remain for an agreement in 2025? And why is it so important to maintain focus on plastic from a climate point of view? Dive into the challenges and explore potential solutions with the team.
Continuing this critical theme, Ellen MacArthur, Founder & Chair of Trustees of the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, world record-breaking sailor and circular economy advocate, joins Christiana to share an exclusive conversation as part of a collaboration between The Circular Economy Show and Outrage + Optimism. Together they consider what’s next for the global plastics treaty, get excited about the role of the private sector in tackling plastic pollution, and highlight how the visibility of plastics can help capture public attention on climate.
Before you go…Listener Survey
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NOTES AND RESOURCES
GUEST
Dame Ellen MacArthur
Website | Twitter (X)
Ellen MacArthur Foundation
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The Foundation works to accelerate the transition to a circular economy, if you’d like to find out more, the Foundation’s podcast ‘The Circular Economy Show’ talks to experts from across industry, governments and academia to hear first hand about how the circular economy is being developed and scaled.
December Mailbag Episode
We would LOVE to hear your questions for our end of year listener Mailbag episode. Whether it is your questions on our most recent How to Live a Good Life series, questions on the recent COPs or everything and anything in between. Please either:
Send us an email: [email protected] with Climate Questions: December Mailbag in the title.
Visit our social media pages and drop the question in the comments.
Alternatively, if you want the chance for your message to be played on the show, record a message for us here
Learn more about the Paris Agreement.
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This week, the team dives into the dramatic highs and lows of COP29 in Baku. With negotiations stretching into the final hours, a hard-fought finance deal emerged to bolster climate action and support for the most vulnerable. Yet, Christiana describes the agreement as “paltry at best,” highlighting the yawning chasm between what was agreed upon and what is truly necessary to address the climate crisis.
For those advocating for an ambitious, needs-based outcome, this year’s COP was a bruising experience—marked by frustration, hurt, and disappointment. The hosts share their thoughts on the controversies surrounding Azerbaijan's COP presidency and the challenges faced by negotiators committed to transformational change.
Finally, the team welcomes a very special guest: superstar producer Clay Carnill. As Clay prepares to leave the show, the hosts reflect on his incredible contributions to Outrage + Optimism—from the early days to now. Known for his humour, joy, unparalleled talent, attention-to-detail, professionalism, musicality and general all-round awesomeness, Clay has been a cornerstone of the podcast’s success. He will be deeply missed by the entire team.
We send Clay off with all our love—and best wishes for him (and the Detroit Lions!) on the journey ahead.
🎧 Tune in for reflections, critiques, and heartfelt goodbyes.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
I’m glad we got a deal at COP29 - but western nations stood in the way of a much better one by Mukhtar Babayev
December Mailbag Episode
We would LOVE to hear your questions for our end of year listener Mailbag episode. Whether it is your questions on our most recent How to Live a Good Life series, questions on the recent COPs or everything and anything in between. Please either:
Send us an email: [email protected] with Climate Questions: December Mailbag in the title.
Visit our social media pages and drop the question in the comments.
Alternatively, if you want the chance for your message to be played on the show, record a message for us here
Listener Survey
Help shape the podcast for 2025! If you haven’t yet completed our annual listener survey, we’d be so grateful if you can spare 10 minutes to complete it here.
Tell us what you like, what you don’t like, and what you want more of from Outrage + Optimism.
GUEST
Clay Carnill
Website | Patreon | LinkedIn | Instagram | Email
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This week, our hosts talk about what’s been happening - and not happening - in Rio and Baku.
Christiana clarifies the mandate of COPs and advocates for COP processes and presidencies to be separate from national positions and interests while robustly defending multi-lateralism.
The hosts discuss how world leaders meeting in Rio for the G20 meeting have sent a powerful political signal to those meeting in COP29 in Baku: a need for "rapidly and substantially scaling up climate finance from billions to trillions from all sources".
The hosts are joined by Sue Reid, Climate Finance Advisor at Global Optimism who is on the ground in Baku. Together, they discuss what outcomes to expect as negotiators race towards the finish line in the second and final week of COP29.
Sue Reid shares her optimism at leading investors at the pinnacle of the finance food chain calling for the same commitments in climate and nature as leading civil society advocates and developing countries. The hosts and Sue talk about the critical importance of innovative mechanisms to achieve the climate financing needed and the outsized impact of public finance to leverage and enable private finance.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
G20 Rio de Janeiro Leaders Declaration
COP29 gets boost from Rio as G20 leaders back scaling up climate finance from ‘billions to trillions’
GUEST
Sue Reid, Climate Finance Advisor to Christiana Figueres at Global Optimism
Global Optimism Website | LinkedIn
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Recorded live from COP29 in the UK Pavilion in Baku, Bigger, Better, Bolder: Updating NDCs in Line with 1.5 Degrees captures an energetic dialogue on the crucial role of bold leadership in climate action. Moderated by Tom, this dynamic session dives into why governments must ambitiously update their Nationally Determined Contributions (NDCs) to meet the 1.5°C goal, recognizing this decade as a pivotal chance to shape a sustainable future.
Kicking off with insights from Ed Miliband, the UK’s Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero, we explore how the UK’s ambitious NDC exemplifies targets aligned with scientific guidelines, the public’s mandate, and the need for investment-ready, collaborative action.
Tom also welcomes Emma Pinchbeck, CEO, Climate Change Committee and Russell Read, Lead Delegate, We Are Family Foundation to unpack how real-economy and societal stakeholders can drive meaningful NDC implementation. He talks to Nigel Topping, non-executive Director of the National Wealth Fund and Diana Layfield, Chair of British International Investment about the critical role business plays in inspiring investment and innovation both domestically and internationally.
The session concludes as Ana Toni, Brazil’s National Secretary for Climate Change, joins Ed Miliband in a live Q&A, discussing how partnerships between major powers, such as Brazil and the UK, can accelerate global climate progress before the mid-decade tipping point.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
GUESTS
The Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, UK Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero
Website
Emma Pinchbeck, CEO of Climate Change Committee
Twitter (X)
Russell Reed, lead delegate for the We Are Family Foundation
Website
Nigel Topping, Non-exec director of National Wealth Fund and COP26 Climate Champion
LinkedIn
Diana Layfield, Chair of British International Investment
Website
HE Ana Toni, National Secretary for Climate Change at the Ministry of Environment and Climate Change, from Brazil as COP30 Presidency
LinkedIn
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Recorded Live at the UK COP Pavilion and moderated by Tom, ‘From Call to Action: the Bridgetown Initiative and delivering Global Financial System Reform’ is an inspiring conversation between Barbados Prime Minister Mia Mottley and Foreign Secretary, UK, David Lammy.
Mia Mottley called the world to action when she released the initial Bridgetown Initiative at UNGA in 2022. Now in its third iteration, the Bridgetown Initiative brings together an ambitious and holistic set of calls for reforms to make the Global Financial System more inclusive, more shock-responsive, and better scaled to meet the financing challenges and needs for developing countries.
The UK is ready to stand up to face those challenges head-on. As a G7 country with the largest sustainable financial centre in the world, a track-record of delivering financial innovations and influencing the global debate, a key voice in the governance of the System, the UK has a strong track-record and platform to deliver.
And deliver we must: the global financial system needs to deliver a fairer deal for developing countries.
This conversation is a frank discussion between two leading voices to understand the problems, identify solutions, and drive reforms to create a world free of poverty on a liveable planet.
Huge thanks goes to UK COP Pavilion for allowing us to use their audio recording of this conversation. To watch more live events from COP 29 make sure to follow their YouTube channel here
NOTES AND RESOURCES
The Bridgetown Initiative
UK COP Pavilion
UK Government at COP29
GUESTSThe Honourable Mia Mottley, SC, MP, Prime Minister of Barbados
Website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter (X)
The Rt Hon David Lammy, Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs of the United Kingdom
Website | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter (X)
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This week, Paul and Tom are joined by Tony Goldner, from the Taskforce on Nature-related Financial Disclosures.
Tony helps make sense of what happened at the recent Biodiversity COP in Colombia and discusses the many ways that nature is starting to appear on business’ and regulators’ agendas. Companies are waking up to the fact that their resilience depends on the resilience of nature.
Many companies are in the process of developing and setting long-term transition plans to net-zero. Tony explains that as biodiversity and nature-loss risks mount, businesses need to also consider that nature-based dependencies, risks, and mitigations should be put in place.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
GUEST
Tony Goldner, TNFD Executive Director
TNFD Website | LinkedIn
Q&A The clock is ticking: finance sector deforestation action must now go mainstream with Stephanie Kimball, Senior Director of Climate Strategy at Conservation International and Sue Reid, Climate Finance Advisor to Christiana Figueres at Global Optimism
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As the news of Donald Trump’s 2024 US election victory makes headlines around the world, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson unpack Trump and Harris’s campaign and discuss the implications of a Trump-led administration on US climate ambition, both domestically and internationally. Or as Tom puts it, “What the hell just happened in the US?”
Join the hosts as they analyze potential shifts in policy, how business and finance could counterbalance federal setbacks, and what this means for COP29, NDCs, and global multilateral efforts. During their discussion, the hosts pose some crucial questions: how would a US withdrawal from the Paris Agreement impact global decarbonisation progress? What role will China play as the climate leadership landscape shifts?
Amidst these turbulent times, we’re thrilled to inject a dose of much needed optimism by welcoming Congresswoman-Elect Yassamin Ansari to Outrage + Optimism. Fresh from her election to the US House of Representatives for Arizona’s 3rd District, Yassamin joins us with her inspiring perspective on leading progressive change at the federal level. Her election, which makes her the second ever Iranian American to be elected to Congress, brings hope for resilient climate leadership despite federal setbacks.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
GUEST
Congresswoman-Elect Yassamin Ansari
Website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter (X)
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This week, Christiana has a fascinating window into the Biodiversity COP negotiations underway in Colombia. From Cali, she’s joined by Freya Newman and Irene Suarez Perez from the Global Optimism team who give us the lowdown into what’s going on inside and outside the negotiating rooms. They tell what’s unique about Colombia hosting, how it’s given a platform to indigenous and local community voices; and why business is talking about love as well as finance.
Also joining Christiana from Cali is Monica Medina, a fellow with Conservation International and the US’ first Special Envoy for Biodiversity. They have an animated chat about the essential interdependence of climate and biodiversity, and Medina shares her optimism about a new oceans fund. And they take a deep (and refreshingly nerdy!) dive into DSI - digital sequencing information - and how we can ensure lucrative genetic codes, often found in the Global South, are fairly compensated and reimbursed.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
GUESTS
Monica Medina, Arnhold Distinguished Fellow at Conservation International, former Assistant Secretary of State for Oceans, Environment and Science and the first US Special Envoy for Biodiversity and Water Resources
LinkedIn | Instagram | Twitter (X)
Irene Suarez Perez, Senior Advisor - Nature & Food System Transformation - Groundswell at Global Optimism
LinkedIn
Freya Newman, Advisor, Groundswell at Global Optimism
LinkedIn
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This week, as part of our focus on biodiversity during COP 16, we're excited to share a special crossover episode! In the first part of this exciting episode, join Christiana, Tom, and Ben Goldsmith for an insightful conversation about rewilding and its global impact, followed by a full episode of Ben's inspiring podcast Rewilding The World featuring UK national treasure, writer and actor, Stephen Fry.
In his conversation with the hosts, Ben explores the concept of rewilding, its potential to reshape ecosystems worldwide, and the critical role grassroots community projects play in this movement.
Ben Goldsmith is a pioneer in green investment and a driving force behind the rewilding movement in Britain and across Europe. Don't miss this thought-provoking discussion on the future of biodiversity and rewilding!
NOTES AND RESOURCES
GUEST
Ben Goldsmith, co-founder and board member of Nattergal and host of Rewilding the World podcast
Website | Nattergal | Rewilding the World podcast
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This week, our hosts dive into The Rio Trio! No, this is not the name of a new cocktail but three COPs (Biodiversity in Colombia, Climate in Azerbaijan and Desertification in Saudi Arabia) which are about to happen back-to-back. Plus the plastics treaty negotiations in South Korea.
Join our hosts for their take on the history of these three different but interrelated COPs, all conceived in the Earth Summit in Rio in 1992. How have they evolved, and how might they continue to evolve to be fit for purpose in a changed world? Since this subject is complex, Christiana uses her get-out clause and phones a special friend for much-needed clarity.
Christiana also asks the question: If we had a blank slate now, would it make more sense to kick start a process based on all nine planetary boundaries? Would this help us focus holistically on the interconnected challenges we face? Sit back and listen as the hosts try to make sense of this negotiating super season for the planet and all its peoples.
Please keep tuned for special and in-depth coverage from the Outrage + Optimism team to guide you through each of these key moments.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
How COPs are organised - Questions and answers
From Cancun to Durban: Implications for Climate and Multilateral Diplomacy by HE Patricia Espinosa
COP16 host Colombia pushes for unified UN climate and nature pledges
COP Presidencies Launch ‘Rio Trio’
Biodiversity COP
Climate COP
Desertification COP
GUEST
Richard Kinley, President, Foundation for Global Governance and Sustainability and former senior official at the UN Climate Change Secretariat (UNFCCC) from 1993 to 2017. He served as Deputy Executive Secretary from 2006 to 2017 and was intimately involved in the development of UNFCCC as an organization from its establishment and in its management and operations.
Learn more about the Paris Agreement.
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In the final episode of our How to Live a Good Life series, Tom, Paul and Christiana discuss the personal quandary of whether or not to have children in the midst of what appears to be significant climate breakdown.
The questions they ponder are complex and philosophical: should we bring children into a world that is, some might say, collapsing? Would you consider having children is immoral, since more people living on the planet leads to greater consumption and emissions, thus exacerbating the problem? Or is having a child the greatest act of hope for the future that anyone can choose to make?
The hosts approach this issue from different perspectives, opening up about their personal lives and addressing questions and comments sent in by listeners. We hope to offer you some clarity on this topic, or at least some comfort that even the greatest minds in the climate space sometimes have to take leaps of faith.
This is the final episode in the series. We really hope you have enjoyed these episodes. As always, we would love to hear from you so please get in touch.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
Your Kids are Not Doomed by Ezra Klein, NY Times, June 2022
Four in 10 young people fear having children due to climate crisis The Guardian, September 2021
‘I am starting to panic about my child’s future’: climate scientists wary of starting families, The Guardian, May 2024
Masters of War - Bob Dylan
Resources and Consumption: Data from Population Matters
The Whirligig by Paul Fleishman
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Newsflash: In this urgent episode recorded on Friday, October 11th, Tom, Paul, and Christiana come together to discuss the devastation caused by Hurricanes Helene and Milton. The hosts express their frustration with the conspiracy theories circulating in the wake of the latest hurricane Milton - at a time when solidarity is needed most. They also dive into the harsh reality that the fossil fuel industry lies at the heart of the destruction.
In This Episode:The hosts break down the undeniable science linking man-made global warming to the increasing intensity of hurricanes around the world.
As private insurers withdraw from Florida, leaving homeowners and businesses without coverage, the hosts examine the crisis' wide-reaching effects, particularly on the most vulnerable populations.
A deep dive into the dangerous disinformation spread by key Republican figures, tracing the real cause of man-made extreme weather back to the fossil fuel industry.
The episode closes with sincere condolences for those across the globe who have lost lives and livelihoods due to extreme weather events.
Join us for an insightful conversation on climate accountability, disinformation, and the forces fueling these devastating changes to our environment.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
Weather Catastrophes and Climate Change: Is There Still Hope for Us?
The People of the State of California vs. Big Oil
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SHOW NOTES:
In the penultimate episode of our How to Live a Good Life in a Climate Crisis, our hosts talk about food and food systems. How can we enjoy meals while eating responsibly?
Tom, Paul and Christiana find it difficult to digest our lopsided relationship with food, in which more than two billion people face food insecurity and a third of all food goes to waste.
The conversation is free-range - the hosts reveal what shaped their own rituals around eating. They look at how humanity’s relationship with food went from trust to anxiety, from abundance to scarcity. They argue the merits of different veggie burgers.
About a third of all human-caused greenhouse gas emissions is linked to food. To limit global warming while feeding a growing population, every part of the food system - from farming to refrigeration - must become cleaner and more efficient.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
Global Nutrition Report
More than a billion people obese worldwide, research suggests
Outrage + Optimism: Our Story of Nature, From Rupture to Reconnection
Outrage + Optimism: Yuval Noah Harari on the History of Our Future
Outrage + Optimism: 2% for 1.5 with Yuval Noah Harari
Drivers of Deforestation
Outrage + Optimism: Going Beyond Meat with Ethan Brown
Outrage + Optimism: Hungry for Alternatives?
How to Grow Your Own Food
Environmental Impacts of Food Production
42% of consumers worldwide think most people will likely be eating plant-based food instead of meat in the next ten years
Implementing land-based mitigation to achieve the Paris Agreement in Europe requires food system transformation
The carbon footprint of foods
How to reduce the carbon footprint of your food
Hope Farm Statement
Fishing boat caught with Illegal 18-mile-long nets
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Welcome to the third episode in our How to Live a Good Life in a Climate Crisis series, where our hosts grapple with some of the fiercest climate conundrums we face.
This week, Tom, Paul and Christiana look at the issue of careers and ask - would you move jobs in response to the climate crisis? Is changing your job your most effective form of climate action? They explore what to look for if you’re attempting to use your career to scale up climate solutions. And they pose the biggie: is there even such a thing as a climate change job and a non-climate change job?
Taking a moment to discuss their own careers, the hosts share what they’ve learnt about innovation, interns, and how chair-making can pave the way to the UN!
We’d love to hear what your experiences are… Please do get in touch.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
‘Thuto ya Batho’ Teachings from the People: Women Adapt to Climate Change by Maite Nkoana -Mashabane
Outrage + Optimism: BP’s Road to Rebuilding Trust with CEO Bernard Looney
Cardiff Freight Company Wins NatWest Cymru’s ‘Green Business of the Year Award’
Gen Z seek ethical workplaces as environ-mental health burden bites (Bupa, 2021)
2024 Gen Z and Millennial Survey: Living and working with purpose in a transforming world (Deloitte, 2024)
The Undercover Activist
Creatives for Climate
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Is it OK to Fly in a Climate Crisis?
In episode 2 of our How To Live A Good Life in a Climate Crisis series, the hosts grapple with one of most divisive issues for those concerned with climate change - is it ok to fly, when flying is responsible for the bulk of our personal carbon footprints, and when 80% of the world never sets foot on a plane?
Tom, Paul and Christiana dive into this thorny issue from three different perspectives. Putting forward the case for and against flying, the hosts touch on the miracle of flying, the potential of sustainable aviation fuels and offsets, and the joys of train travel! They hope that these tricky conversations will be a springboard for further and deeper conversations for listeners.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
How much does aviation contribute to climate change? How will this change in the future?
Why do aircraft leave contrails in the sky?
Europe Talks Flying: navigating public opinion on aviation and climate
Learn more about the Paris Agreement.
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In episode 1 of our How To Live A Good Life in a Climate Crisis series, the Outrage + Optimism hosts introduce you to their new mini series and discuss how they define a good life.
For the next few weeks, Tom, Paul and Christiana will explore questions that you, the listeners, have asked us to address, around what it means to live a good life at this pivotal moment, facing uncertainty and judgments. They’ll talk about whether we should fly, what we eat, how to enjoy a meaningful career and whether or not we should have children.
This free ranging discussion attempts to shine a light on the interplay between the largest issue facing humanity - the climate crisis - and the difference each of us can make.
Although this series concerns itself with individual action, part of our role is to call on governments and other institutions to precipitate systemic change.
Please don’t expect any right or wrong answers! Tom, Paul and Christiana will not prescribe you the ingredients for the perfect life! They will share their own insights, stories and struggles. And after listening there’s a good chance you might feel more confused - we only hope you’ll be confused at a deeper level.
We’d love to hear what you think.
NOTES AND RESOURCES
Understanding Ireland Citizen Visions of a Good Life 2030
Fifty Ways to Start a Climate Conversation
Climate Week NYC: Love is the Answer
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Since Dr Stephan Harding passed away in September 2024, he has been deeply mourned by the climate community, many of whom have been touched and inspired by his life and work. In honour of his extraordinary contributions to our understanding of this beautiful planet, we’re re-releasing the Deep Time Walk, narrated by Stephan, and which has already been downloaded over a million times.
This re-release includes an introduction by hosts Paul and Tom, and Tom’s eulogy, which he shared at Stephan’s memorial service on 30th September.
Stephan Harding was a founding member of Schumacher College where he was a Deep Ecology Research Fellow, celebrated teacher and author.
As a celebration of this remarkable and beloved man, we hope you enjoy his history of Gaia, told through immersive sound. We encourage you to set aside time to sit comfortably, relax, and learn to “walk well into the life of Gaia” as Stephan puts it. Stephan has had a massive influence on the climate movement, inspiring global leaders to shift their world view towards a Gaian view. We have the privilege of sharing an exercise of that shift with all of you.
Enjoy and RIP Dr Stephan Harding.
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Christiana + Tom’s book ‘The Future We Choose’ is available now!
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Mentioned links from the episode:
DOWNLOAD: The Deep Time Walk App
CHECK OUT: The Deep Time Walk Field Kit
LEARN MORE: Deep Time Walk Project
Dr. Stephan Harding
Deep Ecology Research Fellow | Senior Lecturer in Holistic Science
Author of Animate Earth and Gaia Alchemy
LINKS:
Schumacher College
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Deep Time Walk
Website
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Keep up with Christiana Figueres here:
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Tom Rivett-Carnac:
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Paul Dickinson:
LinkedIn | Twitter
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How to Live a Good Life in a Climate Crisis
The Outrage + Optimism team are excited to bring you a series that confronts the big questions we ask ourselves whilst living in a climate crisis.
Join hosts Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett Carnac and Paul Dickinson as they grapple with issues like what we should eat, whether we should fly, and how to live with purpose and joy in these uncertain and overwhelming times.
First and second episodes released on 3 October.
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