Episodes
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Catch-up episode after a long gap! Sunyi and Scott both discuss career momentum, cheerfully losing at the Hugos, and the pushback they've had from Reddit / the internet. Sunyi explains why she'd turn down other nominations in the future, while Scott talks about why he was happy to sign a smaller deal for his UK rights. They also cover future plans, and what happened to previous author guests.
And finally, they each get to give the pettiest hill they'd die on. Hint: Sunyi's hill starts with "J" and ends in "owling".
Link to the Guardian article that Sunyi talks about in her Petty Hill at the end: https://www.theguardian.com/books/1997/jul/08/booksforchildrenandteenagers.danglaister
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Ever heard the phrase "Money flows to the author"? James "Jim" MacDonald is the one who coined it.
Jim is a long-time author and anti-vanity press advocate who, along with many others, has dedicated years of his life to investigating predatory publishers and teaching new authors to protect themselves. Today, he joins us in this Special Episode to share his experiences and knowledge on the rise of these organisations and how they operate.
This episode differs from our usual because Jim is very much the focus, with Scott and Sunyi choosing to take a backseat. We hope that this episode will be illuminating and helpful to newer authors who are starting to find their feet in this murky industry. This is a topic which is close to our hearts, and on which we feel strongly about.
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Missing episodes?
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Authors are expected to juggle many different demands on their time and energy--from social media and self-promotion, to side projects and live events. How do we decide what is or isn't worth our efforts, and where do we set boundaries to prevent burnout and overwhelm?
Award-winning author and professor, Suyi Davies Okungbowa, discusses how he makes the writing life work for him, by balancing his original fiction and his prolific IP work against his academic career.
Among many other topics, he outlines the crucial role of a personal assistant (especially how they can supplement publisher marketing), his criteria for accepting or rejecting IP projects, his very unique approach to social media, and how he sets certain boundaries with publishers.
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After years of mostly existing in indie space, Romantasy has finally burst onto the trad pub scene where it now reigns supreme, especially in SFF. Today, we talk to Nisha J Tuli, who spotted romantasy's trad potential early and whose career took off as a result. Her career trajectory is a microcosm of what is happening with romantasy more broadly, and gives us the chance to explore what it is like to catch the crest of a publishing wave. Nisha also shares with us specific tactics she employed as an indie author, and how they could be useful for trad, indie, and hybrid authors alike.
Other topics: Sunyi comes out in defense of writing to market, Nisha stresses the importance of still writing what you love (even when writing to market), and how they intersect. There are different types of readers, and different types of writers, and they have different goals with regard to books. We also discuss the amount of money to be made in this particular subgenre, why Nisha chose to go trad/hybrid after seeing indie success; and the longevity of romantasy overall.
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Kristina Perez has lived all over the world, working alternately as a journalist, an author, and now as top literary agent. In this episode we cover a number of different topics, putting forward a combination of our own questions and reader-submitted questions, chatting with Kristina generally about the state of the industry and her multi-sided perspective on it.
Topics include: reviving a flagging career, romantasy, trends and pitches, a nuanced discussion on the relevance of platform, and Scott attempting to guess Kristina's accent. Kristina also outlines some of the help she provides her authors, and graciously gave us a number of links to use in the show notes (seen below)
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Sunyi and Scott have always maintained that "bigger is better" when it comes to book deals, and that any downsides will also apply to smaller advance sizes. But Ed Wilson, the literary agent and director Johnson & Alcock, believes the discussion is much more nuanced, and that 'blockbuster' book advances can sometimes be a symptom of publishing not working well.
With 18 years of experience in the industry, Ed brings a shrewd but frank perspective on a variety of important topics in trad publishing--along with some thoughts on American football, and the shininess of Scott's teeth. Oh, and we think you'll love his "petty hill" segment at the end!
Topics covered:
Book advance sizes, and what they mean for your careerLeverage, and managing publishing relationshipsWhether publishers really can "stall" an author's careerCrucial contract clauses for the modern authorThe importance of literary agent relationshipsEditors getting insider book dealsFootball comparisonsBookscan inaccuracyAnd more! -
This audio file is a compilation of 11 clips across various episodes, and is part of our submission to the Hugo Awards "Voter Pack." Everyone who pays for Hugo membership is given a "voter pack" with electronic copies of the books, short fiction, novellas, essays, and--in our case--audio files for fancasts.
Rather than subject voters to hours of episodes, we've chosen to create a short(ish) compilation, spanning the whole of our show! Runtime is only 31 minutes, and we hope it will give you a sense of the kind of humor, content, and discussion that we cover on Pub Rodeo.
Transcripts + show notes are on our website, and on RSS.com.
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After submitting his debut self-pub novel to the annual SPFBO (self published fantasy blog-off) competition and reaching the semi-finals, Alex Darwin landed himself with a "trad deal" and agent. In the months leading up to his trad re-launch, Alex applied his self-pub experience to his upcoming book launch, trying a number of different angles. Reflecting back, he shares what kind of tactics worked best to give his book the best possible chance.
Topics covered:
Being a hybrid authorHow SPFBO works and can benefit indie authorsPaying for publicity (via Black Crow) in the UK specificallyCollaborative efforts with Orbit on marketing/publicity in the USABook Tours (an assessment and reflection)Finding an angle for pubs to useThinking about longterm goalsLitRPGs and why they remain indieTheories about the goal of OrbitWorks (digital only imprints)Chatter about jujitsu and other nonsense -
Just an outtakes edit from Alex Darwin's episode 38, in which Scott shares a hunting misadventure. Absolutely no industry content whatsoever, simply a short bit of chat. Also featuring: Alex Darwin and Sunyi Dean.
CONTENT WARNING: Animal hunting (elk) is discussed in detail, which may be upsetting to some listeners.
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After solid sales for his first duology, David Wragg's next book series got caught in the infamous post-covid "midlist death spiral". After this current trilogy finishes, his future in trad is uncertain at best.But with his usual good-natured humor,
Wragg cheerfully dissects the past six years of his career, including advances, royalties (or negative royalties in this case), the reality of post-debut book deals, and the differences in production quality between tiers of books. Finally, he and Scott discuss the pressing question of how and why authors keep writing, despite it all. (Though this episode description may seem bleak, we promise it has a few laughs along the way.)
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What's the deal with author book events? Are they useful, do they shift books, and why do they all follow the same format? This week, we speak with Sam Missingham, who spent many years working with the Bookseller, and later with Harper as an author events creator. We talk about what works and what doesn't, whether hiring publicists as a trad author is worth the time, the influence of class and connections in publishing, and the real reason so many publisher-run book events fall a little flat. If authors want a successful career, Sam stresses that this requires a long-term perspective and a focus on writing multiple books, as well as a creative and individual approach to self-marketing.
00:00 Introduction01:00 Background and Experience in the Publishing Industry04:11 The Role of Events in Book Marketing07:05 The Challenges of Filling Book Events09:00 The Value of Events for Debut Authors10:26 The Influence of Class and Connections in Publishing15:00 The Myth of the Slush Pile18:39 The Need for Engaging and Fun Book Events20:24 The Value of Indie Author Events25:26 The Role of Marketing and Publicity for Authors27:22 Working with Traditionally Published Authors31:33 The Challenges of Hiring PR and Marketing Services41:57 The Empowered Author and Building a Strong Author Platform -
Steve Lead is a freelance cover artist and industry podcaster, with many years' experience working on book cover designs in the publishing industry. Today, he sits down to help demystify the complicated process that goes into creating a book cover. We discuss briefs, trends, industry pay (or lack of it), the impact of thumbnail images on print books--and finally, the elephant in the room: the burgeoning technology that is generative AI, and what it might mean for us all.
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:08 Interactions with Authors and the Design Process
07:03 The Design Brief and Constraints
09:02 Pay and Salaries in the Design Industry
12:04 The Impact of Thumbnails on Book Covers
32:31 The Role of AI in Writing and Design
34:00 Concerns and Fears about AI in the Creative Industry
35:06 Legal Ramifications of AI in Publishing
36:27 The Need for Accountability and Fair Compensation
37:21 Controversies and Criticisms of OpenAI
39:16 The Impact of AI on Artists and Creators
41:14 The Dark Side of AI and Social Media
44:34 The Use of AI in Social Media Platforms
46:18 The Potential Benefits and Limitations of AI
48:08 The Controversy of Cover Quotes on Book Jackets
53:43 The Frustration with Front Cover Quotes
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In addition to writing bestselling novels and cofounding a viral podcast (THE BESTSELLER EXPERIMENT), Mark Stay also spent many years working with bookstores and publishers, gaining great insight to all sides of the industry. We chat to Mark about his varied experiences, and reflect back on the seven years he spent recording his groundbreaking podcast. This one is fun and quite eye-opening for behind-the-scenes stuff.
00:00 Introduction and Podcast Origins01:09 Mark Stay's Background and Bestseller Experiment02:45 The Impact and Pressure of Bestseller Experiment03:10 The Success and Community of Bestseller Experiment04:05 Lessons Learned from Bestseller Experiment05:17 Disillusionment and Quitting While Ahead06:12 Finding the Right Tone for Bestseller Experiment07:31 Defeatism in Traditional Publishing08:12 The Empathy and Doom Scrolling of Creatives09:25 The Challenges of Self-Publishing10:34 The Importance of Loving the Process11:49 Mark Stay's Journey from Bookseller to Author13:35 The Experience of Traditional Publishing15:49 The Unconventional Paths in Publishing19:00 Self-Publishing the Bestseller Experiment Book20:33 The Challenges of Selling a Genre-Bending Book22:44 Takeaways for Authors to Give Their Books a Good Shot28:29 The Impact of the Podcast on Scott Drakeford's Publishing Journey32:42 The Reception and Impact of the Podcast35:16 Challenges Faced by Publishers37:06 Focus on Brand Authors38:04 Neglecting Growing Authors39:03 Ineffective Advertising Campaigns40:00 The Mistake of Becoming Bigger42:21 Digital Publishers and Genre Preferences43:18 Preference for Tangible Books44:09 The Importance of Book Covers45:37 Amazon's Dominance and Publishers' Reliance46:31 Amazon's Control and Negotiations47:02 Amazon's Focus on Other Ventures48:31 Visibility and Impact of Amazon on Authors49:28 The Influence of Nielsen BookScan53:41 Diversity in Publishing55:05 The Future of Publishing and Concerns56:02 American Cultural Imperialism01:03:19 Smallest Hill to Die On: Americanization of British English01:09:06 Plugs: Bestseller Experiment, Witches of Woodville -
As our one and only return guest, JT Greathouse joins us for the launch of Season 2, this time in his capacity as a true-hybrid author (with a bookseller's eye). JT sold his debut, HAND OF THE SUN KING, to a UK publisher, but didn't get a USA deal. With the support and help of his literary agency, he opted to self-publish the American version in the States.
This week, we talk about the process of getting your books into stores, the nitty gritty of distribution in relation to small presses, indie authors, and hybrid folks like JT, how to make smart choices, the ways in which books can build towards success, and the (psychologically) damaging myth of the "instant best seller" launch.
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the advantages of splitting rights versus selling world rightsThinking about strategies for selling the rights of your bookself pub USA, trad pub UKThe importance of ingramWhy are book royalties so low in trad? What does higher royalties mean in the context of smaller pressesGood presale numbers--how to calculate this as a debut (jeremy's 'vibe check' formula)Debuts not making or breaking youhow online discussions skew our perception of successhow to make good decisionsJeremy and Scott bicker (good-naturedly) over the definition of "tiers"Bookseller mentality re hype and salesSmall, achievable goals - not totally powerless!NEW PODCAST SECTION: The Smallest Hill You're Willing To Die On -
Our final show of the season! This week, we talk frankly about author leverage--what it means, and how to use it. We also discuss when and how to pitch new books on proposal, the impact of past sales on that process, and why Scott is (probably) walking away from writing trad fantasy as a result.
Other topics: we reflect on regrets and highlights across the past year, do a quick summary of where we are, why we've slowed down, and what's going on, AND our plans for Season 2 (there will be one!) and how it will be different from Season 1.
Finally, Scott introduces a new shiny thing we've been working on: the Author Data Project, an adult-fiction version of the YA research that Dr. Kerry Pray conducted and discussed in an earlier episode.
Links to the other 2 podcasts we mentioned and recommended:
The Failing Writers Podcast, featuring Jon Rand, Tom Turner, and Dave Baird: https://www.failingwriterspodcast.com/ Great fun, honest conversations, fantastic guests!Cover Meeting, with Steve Leard: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cover-meeting/id1706806306 A side of the industry authors normally don't see! -
After being orphaned by multiple agents, and a COVID book launch that hamstrung her sales, Holly Race started again--querying with a fresh manuscript, in a different age category--before finally landing on her feet... for now! Today, we talk about the instability of trad; relaunching a career that stumbled; what Holly learned from reading tv scripts; moving from YA to adult; writing with the market in mind; the pitfalls of manuscript assessment services; and much more.
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Does Twitter sell books? Do book tours improve sales? How do readers actually find authors in the first place? Across a fifteen-year-career, NYT best-selling author Gail Carriger talks about hitting list, collecting data on her readers, and walking away from bad book/film deals. Check the show notes to gain access to a wealth of info and author assistance, via her incredibly detailed blog. ###Show Notes And Links (written by Gail herself!)Website = gailcarriger.comResources tab for authors on Gail's websitehttps://gailcarriger.com/resources/#writersA book option does not a movie make:https://gailcarriger.com/2015/09/28/on-the-unlikelihood-of-options-becoming-films/The discoverability data blog post (psw = backdoor) https://gailcarriger.com/2023/05/11/new-reader-discoverability-data/Gail uses data and experience to predict Amazon's behavior around books for the next 3 years (psw = backdoor)https://gailcarriger.com/2023/02/27/amazonchanges/How to use Wordpress plugin Redirection to track your activities online so you know if your promo efforts are effectivehttps://gailcarriger.com/2016/12/09/redirection/##See website for full notes!
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Against the odds, Wesley Chu's small-press debut novel became a break-out success. In the ten years since, he has published a dozen other titles, written for large IPs, signed deals with the Big 5, and even dabbled in self publishing. Today, he sits down to chat about unexpected wins, getting blacklisted by publicists, learning to write sex scenes with Diana Galbadon, industry trends for SFF, and many other things. #### SHOW NOTES ####Got through the Angry Robot slush pile, unagentedLives of Tau was a stellar breakout successCowriting with Cassandra Clare, and being tutored by Diana GalbadonWatching yaoi, learning to write sex scenesPublishing experience with the big 5; getting blacklisted by a publicistRecovering and moving on with your careerThe shocking number of people who quit the industryFilm options (navigating them, making good choices)The “churner” model of publishing and why AI will kill it offChanging market trends in the USA and UKBook 2 promotion and a listener question
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This week, we chat with Anika Scott, an international bestselling author of historical fiction. After years of writing, querying, and revising, Anika's debut novel was snapped up amidst a whirlwind of interest and buzz--only to then launch a week before COVID shut the world down. On one continent, her book flourished, while on another, it tanked. We discuss the European scene, including the Frankfurt Book Fair and what it means to be a Frankfurt book, as well as being editorially orphaned, different genre readerships, recovering from a devastating COVID launch, and more.
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After years of rejections, Kameron's early book deals ran into problems when her publishers either folded or went bankrupt, Instead of quitting, she kept going. And going. In the decade since, Hurley has signed new deals, built a fanbase, and even won a Hugo.
We sit down with her today to ask hard-hitting questions: Why don't we just quit? Why keep doing it? Why not 'just' self publish? And finally, was it all worth it?
Nota bene: SPECIAL THANKS to Casmer Maliszewski for helping us clean up the audio on this episode! We experienced a lot of distortion and he kindly stepped in to help make it a more comfortable listen.
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SHOW NOTES:·
Long career that begin with a slew of rejections, followed by getting picked up by publishers who either went bankrupt, folded, or refused to pay. Kameron now claws a fierce living on the midlist, with a hard-earned fanbased and a chest of publishing war stories / wisdom.·Sunyi reads a bit from Kameron Hurley’s essay, ON PERSISTENCE:· "I felt like I'd failed at everything. Life was a ruin. I found myself living in a spare bedroom at a friend's house, unemployed, deep in medical debt, staring at yet another novel three-quarters of the way finished. When I opened my laptop, the sticky note still stared back at me. Persistence, in all things, in writing, in life. I finished the book. I'd reached a point in my life where I didn't know how to do anything else but finish the fucking book."·The importance of being ‘easy to work with’ in the industry·But also the importance of knowing your worth and fighting for your career·Choosing walk away from bad deals, unsupportive agents or editors, and bad film options (yes you can do all of this!)·Why did Kameron choose to champion transparency on her blog? Because the skewed publishing perspective that many writers put forward made her feel like a failure.·Examples of midlist writers who broke out to find big success·The importance of pen names·The importance of giving away arcs·WHY DON’T YOU JUST SELF PUBLISH? The dreaded question that we swim through repeatedly in conversations.·Why do we keep doing it? Why should we persevere?· Defining personal success, and finding joy in the process.·Sunyi’s final question: WAS IT WORTH IT? - Show more
