Episodes
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At a recent event with about 300 attendees, today's guest polled the audience and asked how they felt about their ABM performance.
98.5% said they weren't satisfied.
If you've ever built an ABM program, this statistic may not surprise you. My observation is that there are few motions where the hype and the reality are so far apart.
Why is that? What are people getting wrong about ABM? And how do you make it work?
Andrei Zinkevich provides some very concrete and detailed answers to these questions in today's episode.
You'll learn why ABM is more than the typical "display ad + email" recipe that many companies use, why true ABM really doesn't scale in a conventional sense, why you don't need expensive software, and why the most important personalization data comes from the company's own buyers.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestAndrei Zinkevich is co-founder at Fullfunnel.io, an agency that transforms B2B tech and service-based companies from siloed sales and marketing to full-funnel account-based marketing and demand generation.
He's also co-host of the Full-Funnel B2B Marketing Podcast.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/azinkevich/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:43] - Core mistakes of most ABM motions[13:47] - The pillars of ABM[29:09] - Creating awareness within target accounts[36:11] - Moving from awareness to sales discussionsThanks to Our Sponsor
Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.
We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.
UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.
You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect.
So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.
Try UserGems
Resource LinksABM and Demand Gen Consulting & Training | FullFunnel.io
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
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This week we sit down with Mallory Lee, a seasoned RevOps leader whose career spans transformative roles at Pardot, Terminus, and more. Together, we tackle the realities of RevOps today, from debunking the myth that RevOps is the buyer for tech tools to navigating the challenges of unified operations.
Mallory reflects on her time leading teams through the rise of ABM platforms, highlighting lessons learned about hype, strategy, and staying grounded in reality. She also shares her candid perspective on the role of RevOps as the backbone of a company’s strategy. We explore how RevOps can bring alignment across go-to-market teams, why getting the ICP right is a never-ending challenge, and how tech platforms like marketing automation must evolve to keep up with modern demands.
Whether you’re a RevOps practitioner, a SaaS vendor, or just someone who loves geeking out over strategy, this episode is packed with unvarnished truths and actionable insights.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestMallory Lee is an experienced Revenue Operations professional with 15 years of experience collaborating across the GTM Org and C-Suite to scale B2B SaaS revenue. She's held marketing and RevOps leadership positions at companies like Terminus and Nylas, is a product advisor for RevTech companies, and co-founder of the RevTech Review.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mallorylee/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:57] - Favourite RevOps career path[01:34] - Why you shouldn’t build software for RevOps[05:26] - Iterating on your go-to-market message[07:50] - Shortcomings of ABM tools[16:21] - Signal-based selling and the role of RevOps[25:52] - Marketing automation landscape[33:58] - Unified RevOps[46:09] - Product consulting[48:41] - RevTech ReviewThanks to Our Sponsor
Marketers: it's planning season. Time to live in your office with the world's biggest spreadsheet and hope that finance doesn't slash your budget.
Planning is tough, but at least you can put your best foot forward with a structured framework that covers all the bases. Our friends at Uptempo have just launched the Blueprint for Marketing Planning.
It's a totally free and comprehensive guide for enterprise marketing teams. You'll get a seven-step planning process that integrates top-down strategy with bottom-up execution and gives you a crystal clear picture of how you'll hit your number.
Get your free copy now:
Uptempo Planning Guide
Resource LinksThe RevTech Review
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
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Missing episodes?
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One of the most interesting projects I worked on recently was a rebuild of our ABM / outbound / buying signal tech stack at my day job.
I had bought one of the big legacy ABM platforms a few years ago but had never really seen the value we were hoping for, at least not enough to justify the cost.
And meanwhile, there’s been this explosion of new vendors in the outbound space—tracking signals, aggregating signals, powering sales workflows, enrichment, AI SDR assistants, and the list goes on.
I did a really deep evaluation to understand the landscape, and just as I wrapped that up, I sat down with Janis and Philipp who host the RevOps Lab podcast by Weflow.
We had a great discussion and really went into the details on this topic. If you’re thinking about changing up your ABM tech or just want to get oriented on what’s going on here, this is a great episode for you.
Hope you enjoy it, and check out more episodes from RevOps Lab here: https://www.getweflow.com/revops-lab
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Justin Norris, Senior Director of Marketing Ops at 360 Learning and host of the RevOps FM podcast, joins us to dive into outbound strategies and the evolving role of AI in sales. Justin shares his approach to outbound, focusing on experimentation, signals, and leveraging technology to make outbound motions more effective. He also discusses the importance of flexibility in trying new outbound approaches and creating a system where teams can experiment and learn what works best.
We cover:The shift from traditional outbound methods to AI-driven strategiesHow signals play a critical role in outbound successThe importance of flexibility and experimentation in outboundUsing tools like MadKudu to streamline outbound workflowsAI’s role in the future of outbound and sales engagement
Chapters:[00:00] Introduction[01:17] Justin’s Background and Journey in RevOps[03:59] Outbound in the Modern Sales Environment[07:31] Signals and AI in Outbound Strategy[14:39] Building Flexibility into Outbound Motions[19:06] The Future of AI and Sales Engagement[24:00] Experimentation and Learning in Outbound[35:30] Final Thoughts and Advice--------
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.
We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.
UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.
You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect.
So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.
Try UserGems
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Attribution remains one of the hardest challenges in marketing.
It affects literally EVERYTHING: how we’re perceived as a discipline, the strategies we pick, the activities we decide to do—even how we justify our existence.
B2B companies generally use some combination of first touch, last touch, or multi-touch attribution. They may apply those approaches very diligently and rigorously, but few stop to consider whether those methods are valid and sound.
How do we know whether attribution actually predicts anything? Are we just deluding ourselves? And if we tear down MTA, what do we put in its place?
In today's conversation with Pranav Piyush—CEO of Paramark—we discuss how to apply marketing mix modelling and incrementality testing to understand the effectiveness of any channel or asset.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestPranav Piyush is the Co-Founder and CEO of Paramark, a platform providing marketing measurement and forecasting for fast-growing businesses. Prior to Paramark, he's held growth and marketing leadership roles for companies like Magento, Pilot.com, and BILL.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/pranavp/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:45] - Why multi-touch attribution isn’t valid[07:19] - Why MMM overcomes the limitations of MTA[11:05] - Correlation vs. causation[16:00] - Measuring the impact of content[22:47] - How MMM works under the hood[27:12] - Running an incrementality test without MMM[32:26] - Qualitative insights[37:39] - Incrementality deep dive[43:07] - Brand[49:30] - ParamarkThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksParamark - Stop Guessing, Start Growing: Marketing Measurement Redefined
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
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This week we sit down with M.H. Lines, founder of Stack Moxie, to explore how automated testing and monitoring can prevent Martech failures.
M.H. shares insights from her experience as a marketing operations leader and explains why many revenue teams are still vulnerable to unexpected system breakdowns. We dive into the challenges that come with managing complex Martech stacks and why early detection through automated tools is essential for keeping operations running smoothly.
M.H. also reflects on her journey from marketing leadership to founding Stack Moxie, including how she navigates being a venture-backed startup without compromising on her core principles.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestM.H. Lines founded Stack Moxie in 2018 to bridge the gap between engineering and no-code technology for the SaaS economy. She has helped teams in marketing and technology both in-house and as a consultant at companies like Terex, Cohn & Wolfe, Microsoft, Lowes, The Tile Doctor and IBM Watson Health. MH received an undergraduate degree from The Florida State University in Finance, and her MBA from the Foster School of Business, University of Washington with a focus on Technology Management.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mhlines/
Key Topics[00:00] - [00:00] - Introduction[01:49] - Secrets to Gap Folding[03:55] - From marketing to MOPS[07:54] - MOPS as strategic vs. service provider[14:28] - Being wired as a founder[17:55] - Working in mega-enterprise[22:59] - Observability for MOPS[34:35] - Observability and AI[39:12] - Being a VC-backed founderThanks to Our Sponsor
Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.
We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.
UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.
You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect.
So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.
Try UserGems
Resource LinksThe Official Home of Stack Moxie and Revenue Observability
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
Newsletter
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This week we chat with Grant Grigorian, a long-time friend of mine and founder of Mogi.ai, to explore whether AI is actually a game-changer for data analytics.
We examine what’s broken in the current landscape of data analytics, the complex world of marketing attribution, and the “last mile of analytics” problem (that is., how do you get business users to actually read and use the analyses you produce).
Then we dive very deep into practical applications of AI for data analysis, looking at concrete examples to highlight the strengths and weaknesses of large language models (LLMs) and contrasting them with traditional machine learning approaches.
In closing, Grant reflects on the future of data careers in the age of AI.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestA startup guy who loves B2B marketing technology, analytics, and AI, Grant Grigorian is a serial entrepreneur. Coming from an operations background, Grant founded Path to Scale, a marketing analytics company, that sold to Engagio (later acquired by DemandBase). Today he's the CEO and co-founder of Mogi, an app that simplifies marketing data analysis by automatically delivering insights and recommendations to your team.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantgrigorian/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:06] - What’s broken in data analytics[08:45] - Using data to justify marketing’s existence[18:15] - Analyzing marketing tactics[24:39] - The “last mile of analytics” problem[28:56] - Strengths and weaknesses of LLMs to extract insights from data[45:49] - Difference between LLMs and machine learning[50:37] - The importance of context for AI[54:39] - Impact of AI on data careers[1:00:07] - Motivations as a repeat founderThanks to Our Sponsor
Marketers: it's planning season. Time to live in your office with the world's biggest spreadsheet and hope that finance doesn't slash your budget.
Planning is tough, but at least you can put your best foot forward with a structured framework that covers all the bases. Our friends at Uptempo have just launched the Blueprint for Marketing Planning.
It's a totally free and comprehensive guide for enterprise marketing teams. You'll get a seven-step planning process that integrates top-down strategy with bottom-up execution and gives you a crystal clear picture of how you'll hit your number.
Get your free copy now:
Uptempo Planning Guide
Resource LinksMogi.ai
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
Newsletter
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Sales leadership is one of the hardest jobs in the company. Your success is black and white—you've either hit your number, or you haven't—and getting a group of sellers moving in the same direction isn’t easy, as anyone in RevOps knows.
Today we're joined by Kyle Asay to dig into what separates top-performing sales leaders from the rest. We talk about how to scale sales excellence, balance standardization with creativity, and build trust and rapport at every stage of the sales process.
Kyle also shares his insights on navigating the transition from individual contributor to sales leader, the real role of AI in outbound, and how to build a side hustle while leading a team.
Packed with practical frameworks and hard-won lessons, this conversation is a must-listen for sales leaders, individual sellers, and revenue operators supporting sales teams.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestKyle Asay started his career in sales as an SDR at Qualtrics, where he qualified for five consecutive President’s Clubs as an AE, front-line leader, and second-line leader.
After an incredible 8.5 years at Qualtrics, he's gone on to serve as a sales leader for MongoDB and currently at LaunchDarkly.
You can also find him sharing his frameworks with over 10,000 sellers at SalesIntroverts.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyleasay/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:52] - Current selling environment[04:46] - Scaling sales excellence[10:05] - Right-sizing discovery phase[12:39] - Building trust and rapport[17:53] - Transitioning from sales IC to sales leader[20:46] - The job of a sales leader[24:10] - Identifying the right people[27:47] - Standardized process vs. individual ingenuity[30:59] - Handling the pressure of sales leadership[34:55] - AEs and SDR alignment [42:47] - AI SDRs[44:59] - Sales and RevOps relationship[48:23] - Building a side hustleThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksSales Introverts
Learn More
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In this episode, we unravel how advanced AI workflows can scale a truly effective outbound strategy (and not just create more spam).
Jordan Crawford shares his expertise on how to use AI to automate deep research, identify the most targeted accounts, and develop unique and relevant messaging—all without falling into the trap of reductive "AI SDR" approaches.
We also explore how to leverage AI as a thought partner, the future structure of BizDev teams, and why Clay is all the rage right now.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestJordan Crawford has been in growth for over 10 years, and for the past three and a half has been the founder of Blueprint, an agency that specializes in structuring any data from the public web about your ideal prospects. He's also been an advisor to Clay since 2021.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordancrawford/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:59] - Changes in the outbound landscape[06:41] - How to use AI as a thought-partner [11:28] - Why AI SDRs are not the future[14:28] - AI in the writing process[20:42] - What WILL replace the SDR function[28:59] - The difference with enterprise buyers[30:34] - Signals[38:48] - Making AI plays resilient[43:04] - ClayThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksBlueprint
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
Newsletter
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You may have heard the phrase, "every company is a media company"—but what does this actually mean for B2B?
How do you go about building an audience, what content should you use, and how should you measure it?
Here to answer these questions is category-creating CMO and founder, Anthony Kennada. He helped pioneer the category of customer success as founding CMO at Gainsight, and today is helping B2B companies develop owned audiences as CEO of AudiencePlus.
Anthony is a great marketer who has thought deeply about how brands should develop relationships with audiences for the long term. This wide-ranging conversation explores many facets of how to put this into practice.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestAnthony Kennada is the co-founder and CEO of AudiencePlus—building software, content, and community to help every company become a media company.
Prior to founding AudiencePlus, he served as the CMO of companies like Hopin, Front, and Gainsight. At this last company, he and his team are credited with creating the Customer Success category.
Anthony is also the author of Category Creation: How to Build a Brand that Customers, Employees, and Investors Will Love, which debuted as a number one new release on Amazon.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/akennada/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:43] - Evolving through growth stages at Gainsight[06:40] - Category creation[14:09] - Why should every company be a media company? [24:31] - Metrics for audience marketing[34:47] - Partnering with content creators[40:25] - Edutainment[44:29] - Golden HourThanks to Our Sponsor
Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.
We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.
UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.
You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect.
So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.
Try UserGems
Resource LinksWhy Every Company is Becoming a Media Company | AudiencePlus
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
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Quote-to-cash: it's messy, it's technical, and every project takes WAY longer than planned.
It's also absolutely vital. If you can't get quotes out the door, or if you can't collect money from your customers, you don't have a business.
Because of their complexity, these systems tend to change infrequently, and in-house operators may not get the repetitive exposure necessary to master the intricacies of CPQ or billing system projects.
So when I wanted a crash course on quote-to-cash, I turned to Nick and Tony at Hyperscayle—former operators who've built a RevOps agency with a focus on lead-to-cash operations.
We go deep into the process and systems, discuss technical gotchas, and explore the change management issues that must be addressed to make quote-to-cash work smoothly.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestsNicholas Rose is Co-Founder of Hyperscayle, a RevOps consulting firm covering lead-to-cash operations. He's previously held senior operations roles at Dell and Mendix (acquired by Siemens AG).
Tony Tarantino is Chief Architect at Hyperscayle. Previously, he was a technology consultant at Accenture and application architect at Mendix.
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:56] - Making the jump from in-house to agency[05:17] - Quote to cash definitions[10:25] - Design phase and cross-functional alignment [14:06] - When does a company need CPQ [16:41] - Why are CPQ projects so messy[22:34] - Product configuration[28:01] - Ideal tech stack[32:26] - Data quality and deal desk [36:20] - Role of RevOpsThanks to Our Sponsor
Marketers: it's planning season. Time to live in your office with the world's biggest spreadsheet and hope that finance doesn't slash your budget.
Planning is tough, but at least you can put your best foot forward with a structured framework that covers all the bases. Our friends at Uptempo have just launched the Blueprint for Marketing Planning.
It's a totally free and comprehensive guide for enterprise marketing teams. You'll get a seven-step planning process that integrates top-down strategy with bottom-up execution and gives you a crystal clear picture of how you'll hit your number.
Get your free copy now:
Uptempo Planning Guide
Resource LinksHyperscayle RevOps Advisory & Implementation Services
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
Newsletter
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This week I sit down with seasoned RevOps executive Danielle Marquis to explore the evolving landscape of the discipline and how professionals can find balance and fulfillment in their careers.
Danielle shares insights from her 15 years of experience in the field, discussing how RevOps has changed over time and how the role is increasingly being positioned as a critical function within organizations. We dive into the best practices for structuring RevOps teams, prioritizing work, and aligning internal strategies for maximum impact.
As the conversation unfolds, we also explore some personal aspects of career growth, with Danielle offering candid advice on how to carve out a fulfilling path in RevOps and find your happy place at work.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestWith 15 years of experience in revenue operations, Danielle Marquis has lead global teams supporting sales, marketing, and customer success functions in achieving their goals and growing the business. Her super power is connecting the dots across various business decisions and technologies to drive and design a more operationalized path to GTM.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellemarquis/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:06] - Evolution of RevOps in the past 15 years[11:08] - Positioning RevOps internally[16:46] - Team structure[26:16] - Planning and prioritization[30:40] - Finding your happy place at work[39:40] - What’s next in RevOps[43:46] - RevOps vs. GTM OpsThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
Newsletter
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This week I'm sharing another podcast I've guested on recently: The Revenue Marketing Report, hosted by Camela Thompson of Caliber Mind.
Camela is a veteran marketing and analytics leader, and we have an in-depth conversation about the business and cultural dimensions of reporting: what KPIs are you reporting to different audiences, data rituals, analytics storytelling, and more.
This is a super important topic for me, because how you create and share data stories in your organization can be the difference between building an executive-level presence for yourself or getting pigeon-holed as a service provider.
We'll be back to regularly scheduled programming next week, until then, enjoy the rest of your August.
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Justin Norris, host of the RevOps FM Podcast and Sr. Director of BDR and Marketing Operations at 360Learning, joins our host, Camela Thompson, Go-To-Market Thought Leader and B2B Insights Expert, in this episode of the Revenue Marketing Report.
Justin shares his insights and how years of experience sitting at the executive table representing marketing changed his views about which numbers matter most and why. They also geeked out over why MQLs are evil, how to build a ritual around data, and why B2B ops and marketing should focus more on learning from one another.
For more great content like this, check out https://calibermind.com/
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It’s August and I’m taking some time off this month to travel and recharge a bit.
But I didn’t want to leave you hanging for a whole month, so I thought it would a great time to share some recent podcasts where I’ve been featured as a guest.
First up, we have an episode on Beyond the Pipeline with Vivin Vergis, where we do a deep dive into reporting for B2B SaaS orgs.
This is a tough, thorny, sometimes painful topic, but Vivin asked some really great questions and we explore how to tell better stories with data, create a culture of objectivity, prioritize ad-hoc requests, and a whole bunch more.
Let’s dive in to the episode.
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In this episode of Beyond the Pipeline, host Vivin welcomes Justin Norris, Director of Marketing and BDR Operations at 360 Learning and host of the RevOpps FM podcast. Justin shares his journey into operations, transitioning from an English major to a pivotal figure in marketing operations. They dive deep into the challenges of reporting in B2B SaaS, discussing concepts like reporting fatigue, the importance of storytelling in data presentation, and handling impulsive reporting requests.
Justin emphasizes the need for a cultural shift towards objective data analysis and the role of ops in being accountable for business performance. Tune in to gain valuable insights on managing reporting requests, addressing cognitive biases, achieving a single source of truth, and avoiding reporting fatigue in B2B SaaS.
Timestamps:[00:02] Introduction and Justin’s Journey into Operations
Justin shares his unique path from being an English major to becoming a pivotal figure in marketing operations.[03:32] Reporting Fatigue in B2B SaaS
Discussion on the challenges of data overload and how reporting fatigue sets in within organizations.[07:22] Storytelling with Data
The importance of creating a narrative around data and how effective communication can alleviate reporting fatigue.[08:23] Handling Impulsive Reporting Requests
Strategies for filtering and prioritizing reporting requests from different teams to avoid unnecessary work.[14:38] Enabling Self-Serve Reporting
Tips on empowering teams to generate their own reports and the role of ops in making tools accessible.[19:35] Common Reporting Tools and Their Limitations
Comparing the effectiveness of tools like Salesforce, Looker, and Tableau for self-serve and advanced reporting needs.[27:58] Cognitive Bias in Reporting
Addressing the impact of biases like confirmation bias in reporting and the importance of maintaining objectivity.[35:45] Taking Action on Data Insights
The critical role of follow-through on data insights and establishing a feedback loop for continuous improvement.[39:49] Achieving a Single Source of Truth
Challenges and strategies for creating a single source of truth in organizations and the trade-offs involved.
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Enabling revenue teams to use the systems we build and maintain is a huge part of our job as revenue operators. Unfortunately for us, it often doesn’t work very well.
We create documents that no one reads.
They sit in knowledge bases that no one visits.
We're repeatedly interrupted by Slack messages from confused users.
We're forced to send Chatter reminders asking people to PLEASE follow the process for the 500th time.
Today’s guest thinks that there’s a better way to do software enablement, and he founded a company called Tango to deliver on that promise.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestDaniel Giovacchini is COO and Co-Founder at Tango, a tool for creating how-to documentation and software walkthroughs that drive digital process adoption.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-giovacchini/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:52] - AI and changes in the tech market[06:33] - Two approaches to enablement[10:43] - Building a minimum-lovable product[20:44] - Bottom-up monetization[29:38] - Learning in the flow of work [36:37] - The knowledge management stack[40:09] - Role as COOThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksCreate software training guides, in minutes | Tango
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
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Matt Volm is the founder of RevOps Co-op, a vibrant community for RevOps pros.
He shares his journey as a repeat founder, who has taken the roller-coaster of building multiple startups, and reflects on the tenacity and toughness it requires.
RevOps Co-op actually started as a community in support of a software company, but when Matt saw the need for more education and resources for the RevOps field, he pivoted and hasn't looked back.
Matt and I discuss the crucial interplay between finance and RevOps, how RevOps pros can build their finance acumen, the hot debate on unified vs. split RevOps functions, and much more.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestMatt Volm is a repeat founder and CEO of RevOps Co-op, a community for folks who love revenue operations. He's also a scout at Mucker Capital, focused on early stage B2B software. Matt has an MBA from Berkeley Haas and a background in strategic finance, operations and business development.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewvolm/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:01] - Finance and RevOps[07:01] - Developing finance literacy[10:15] - Operating during the tech bubble[12:35] - Unified vs. split RevOps[21:13] - RevOps Co-op[27:53] - Lessons learned as a repeat founder[32:00] - The community-led business model[39:05] - What’s next for RevOps?Thanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksRevOps Co-opI just shut down my startup. Here’s what I learned.
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
Newsletter
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Content has been the lifeblood of how B2B companies go to market for at least 20 years, since Hubspot pioneered the concept of Inbound Marketing.
We make content, we drip it out, we nurture people with it, we align it with our funnels, and we have a conviction that it makes people buy things—although that's also quite difficult to prove.
The content game is not going anywhere, but it IS changing. And to guide us through those changes, we're chatting today with B2B content expert Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing at Atlassian.
Ashley challenges traditional content mapping to the B2B funnel and introduces the idea of a "content playground" where people engage with content in a way that suits them best in a non-linear, non-standard journey.
She also delves into the different intents behind content (buy, use, help, trust), the different levels of content (conceptual, strategic, tactical), the nuances between individual and brand-led content, and the growing role of B2B creators.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestAshley Faus is a marketer, writer, speaker by day, and a singer, actor, fitness fiend by night.
She's a leading content marketing expert who loves telling the high-level stories that resonate with an audience and connecting the dots between types of assets and distribution channels. For the past seven years, she's been the Head of Lifecycle Marketing, Portfolio, at Atlassian.
Her writing has been published on TIME, Forbes, MarketingProfs, and The Muse, and she's spoken on various marketing topics for INBOUND, Harvard Business Review, and MarketingProfs.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyfaus/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:17] - A brief history of content marketing[04:41] - Over-indexing on attribution[08:55] - Different types of content intent [15:42] - Individual vs. brand-led content[19:12] - B2B creators[29:24] - The content playground [45:52] - Email as a consumption channel[49:02] - Treating people as a whole human[51:47] - Content formats[54:54] - AIResource LinksCreate a “Content Playground” that’s Fun for Buyers (and Lucrative for You)
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
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In this week's episode, we delve into the evolving landscape of sales with Jacco van der Kooij, founder of Winning by Design and a renowned expert in go-to-market strategies.
We begin by reflecting on the "Golden Age of SaaS," a period defined by rapid growth but also unsustainable business dynamics. As market conditions shift, we explore how revenue teams must adapt to thrive in the current environment.
AI is becoming an integral part of the sales industry. Jacco shares his insights on how AI will transform sales roles, automating many tasks that currently consume significant time and resources and shrinking the number of jobs.
Revenue Operations has a crucial role in this changing landscape, as the only function positioned to optimize the end-to-end buying process.
Join us for a thoughtful discussion on the past, present, and future of sales, and gain valuable insights from one of the industry's leading minds.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestJacco van der Kooij is an internationally renowned author, business leader, and thought leader on revenue growth and strategy. He is the founder of Winning By Design, a global B2B revenue consulting and training company, which consults for and trains GTM teams at companies such as Uber Eats, DocuSign, MURAL and OwnBackup.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaccovanderkooij/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:27] - The Golden Age of SaaS[04:21] - The old style vs. the new style of buying[08:34] - Adapting to the new reality[16:19] - Sales rockstars vs. consistent process[19:01] - The role of RevOps in establishing repeatability[26:50] - How to get salespeople to follow process [32:06] - AI vs. humans in sales[46:14] - Increasing focus on delivering impactThanks to Our Sponsor
Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.
We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep it all going.
UserGems solves that with one platform to capture signals and automate next steps with workflows and AI.
You get a library of the most impactful signals in one place, automated playbooks to make sure your team executes consistently, and Gem AI to create personalized messaging for each prospect.
So stop wasting time and start targeting your most promising buyers with less headcount. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.
Try UserGems
Resource LinksWinning by Design Resource LibraryRevenue Architecture Book, by Jacco van der KooijThe Revenue Formula Podcast - The SaaS Reset and what's nextMarc Andreeson - Why Software is Eating the...
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Is the future of SaaS growth product-led or sales-led? What if it's both? Zapier uses PLG to create an ecosystem of users and product signals which then drives their sales-led outreach.
Coordinating these motions in parallel takes technical sophistication, great communication, and tight process. Fortunately, they have a unified RevOps team that keeps everyone on the same page.
This week we chat with Lindsay Rothlisberger, Director of RevOps at Zapier, about how her team helps the magic happen.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestLindsay Rothlisberger is a dedicated Revenue Operations Leader with a background enriched in marketing. She thrives on transforming ideas into strategies that improve the customer experience and business metrics. She currently serves as Director of Revenue Operations at Zapier, and has previously held marketing positions at UNiDAYS, Oracle, and Blackboard.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsay-rothlisberger/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:59] - The RevOps scope at Zapier [02:52] - Blending PLG and Sales-Led Funnels [15:11] - How RevOps helps coordinate different GTM motions[22:19] - Org and reporting structure [28:49] - Planning and prioritization[34:05] - Tech stack and governance[41:07] - Tracking signals and CRM architectureThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Resource LinksHow Zapier created a centralized revenue operations team
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
Newsletter
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B2B buying signals are generating a lot of buzz right now—and for good reason.
In today's challenging selling environment, conversion rates are dipping, and identifying active buyers has become more critical than ever. Signal vendors offer a promising solution, but the questions remain: Are these signals truly transformative? How can they enhance your go-to-market strategy? And what the heck is a "signal" anyhow?
In this episode, Chris Walker joins me to demystify the concept of buying signals. With his characteristic clarity and candor, Chris sheds light on why he's emphasizing signals as a key driver for efficient growth.
Regular listeners will know Chris as a significant influence on my thinking. I’ve learned a lot from him over the years, making it a true pleasure to finally have him on the show.
Tune in as we cut through the noise and delve into the real impact of B2B buying signals.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestChris Walker is a serial entrepreneur and go-to-market thought leader. In 2019 he founded Refine Labs, the leading B2B Digital Marketing and Demand Generation agency, growing it to an 8-figure revenue business with a dominating digital presence in less than 3 years. In 2024 he launched Passetto, a tech-enabled GTM Strategy Consultancy that helps B2B executives identify and execute against their highest priority growth levers with confidence and clarity. Chris is host of B2B Revenue Vitals (formerly State of Demand Gen), one of the top marketing and GTM podcasts.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriswalker171/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:34] - Shifting focus to signals[08:03] - What is a signal?[11:59] - The signal data layer[18:12] - Connection between demand creation and signals[21:13] - Landscape of signal tools[24:39] - Identifying high-converting signals[36:25] - Inbound vs. outbound [40:34] - How RevOps can level upThanks to Our Sponsor
This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.
This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.
Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.
MOps-Apalooza 2024
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
Newsletter
Thanks to our friends at Hatch for producing this episode. Get unlimited podcast editing at www.hatch.fm
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I have a fascination with how SaaS products actually get made—especially those that become institutions in the software landscape.
As users, we become deeply familiar with these products, the nitty-gritty of how they work, and what it's like to live inside them. People base entire careers on these platforms.
What we usually DON'T see is the backstory:
How do these great products get designed? What were the decisions and trade-offs along the way? How do they catch on?How do you create lovable features? What causes great products to often stagnate?Today's guest is a legendary product leader and innovator. As the first employee of Marketo, Glen Lipka led the product team during a critical early phase, building many of its still most-beloved features.
This episode is packed with Marketo lore, product design insights, and lessons about how to build a product that users love.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.
Try Knak
About Today's GuestGlen Lipka is a 25+ year veteran of product innovation and design. As Chief Design Officer and first employee at Marketo, he built the flagship product. He has held numerous other product leadership roles and is currently VP of Product Design for Crowdstrike.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/glenlipka/
Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:14] - Glen’s start at Marketo[02:56] - Marketo’s first features[13:36] - Product differentiation[20:37] - Developing the concept of marketing automation[26:00] - Why great products start to suck[40:46] - Hubspot as a product company[44:19] - AIResource LinksGlen's series of retrospective articles on building MarketoGlen's personal blog
Learn More
Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:
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