Episodes
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“I remember during my training having professors tell me, ‘one day you might do something important and you'll tick off a vested interest, and they're going to come into a meeting with you, and they're going to bring a copy of your dissertation and slam it on the table and start challenging you.’ And that is exactly what happened.” – Keeve Nachman
This is the 2nd episode in a special four-part series about where we go deep into the food system with some of the brightest minds at the Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future.
This conversation is Dr. Keeve Nachman, a powerhouse in the fields of environmental health, risk assessment, and food systems research. Keeve is the Robert S. Lawrence Professor and Associate Director of the Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future. He’s also a leading voice on issues like antibiotic resistance and industrial agriculture’s impact on public health.
I asked Keeve to come on the show to talk about how his work helped ban the use of arsenic in our food system—a fight that spanned 15 years and had a ripple effect around the globe.
Keeve’s story is a masterclass in persistence and the power of science-driven policy change.
We also explore his ongoing efforts to address antibiotic misuse in industrial agriculture, a growing threat to global public health, and discuss what it will take to create lasting change in our food system.
Links :
Keeve Nachman: https://clf.jhsph.edu/about-us/staff/keeve-nachman
Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future: https://clf.jhsph.edu/
Unconfined Podcast https://clf.jhsph.edu/unconfined-podcast
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“My colleague and I went out to Arizona because there was a community that was concerned about the expansion of an egg laying operation, essentially in their backyard. At full capacity, that operation was slated to house 12 million birds. 12 million birds. It's like New York City, but with chickens.” – Brent Kim
We know that what we eat has an enormous impact on billions of animals, our health and the health of the planet. If we fail to change our diets and the food system, the planet will face increasingly severe environmental, social, and economic consequences, many of which are already beginning to unfold. We know this, we know that there is much we could be doing about it, on large and small scales, yet the urgency is not there.
I think the more knowledge we have, the more we are willing to demand change and even change ourselves. So, I wanted to go deeper into the food system to get a better understanding of its impact on public health, the planet, ecosystems and social justice, and mostly - to hear about how we change it.
This episode marks the beginning of a special four-part series with some of the experts from the Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future.
This conversation is with Brent Kim. Brent is a program officer for the Center’s Food Production and Public Health program. His research spans issues from farm to fork with published works on sustainable diets, climate change and industrial food, animal production, food and agriculture policy, soil safety, and urban food systems. He and I talk about much of it, how to change it and solutions for a much better future.
Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future https://clf.jhsph.edu/
Brent Kim https://clf.jhsph.edu/about-us/staff/brent-kim
Unconfined Podcast (from the Center for a Livable Future) https://clf.jhsph.edu/unconfined-podcast
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Missing episodes?
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"In the case of lions, they're not easy neighbors. They're also not the worst neighbors. I think in in most cases, it's a matter of learning how to live next to nature, next to other animals and animals that can potentially be dangerous." - JG Collomb
JG Collomb is the CEO of Wildlife Conservation Network, an organization that connects global donors with community based conservationists, and they're changing the way the world finds and funds often overlooked projects in the field and helps foster coexistence between communities and the animals who live among them.
Please listen, share and check out the Wildlife Conversation Network.
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“I think there's a lot of people out there who feel the way I felt for many years, which is, ‘look, I feel a bit guilty, I know in some sense that having the diet I have makes me complicit in some things that I don't like. It makes me a bit uncomfortable, but it doesn't feel like there’s anything I can do about it right now. I have this guilt. I'd like to do something about it, but just all the options I'm presented with seem a bit shit.’
So, when we present people with something else that they can do, many of the people we've spoken to say it's quite a relief to know that they don't have to sit with this tension. You know, psychologists call it the meat paradox, the thing where we love animals, but we also eat them. How can we resolve this? Well, one thing that can maybe help us resolve this kind of cognitive dissonance is to actually be a part of helping animals even whilst you still haven't changed your diet.” - Aidan Alexander
The animals that need our help the most are animals that live on factory farms. Yet charities protecting farmed animals receive 28 times less donations than pet charities. There are all sorts of reasons for this, which we get into in this episode.
This conversation is with Aidan Alexander and Tom Norman. Aidan and Tom have started an organization called FarmKind. It is a way to support your favorite charities, that is, nonprofits that you’re already supporting - pet charities, conservation charities, etc. but also at the same time to help animals that are living on factory farms.
Why? Because factory farming is the biggest source of suffering for animals on the planet. Helping to protect these animals and bring factory farming to an end is one of the biggest ways to help animals in need. FarmKind makes it easy to make a difference for millions of factory farm animals when you donate to the causes you care about.
FarmKind helps people who feel compassion for animals to help the animals most in need and support their favorite charities at the same. OR FarmKind helps anyone be a part of the solution to factory farming, regardless of their diet. Because diet change isn’t the only way to help farmed animals.
Donating is an incredibly powerful way to express our compassion for animals. When we donate to the charities that have been shown to make a difference and use our money wisely, it can make an even bigger difference than changing your diet.
Farmkind collaborates with experts to identify some of the most effective charities combating factory farming's impact on animals and the planet. They enable users to split their donations between these expert-recommended, super-effective charities and their personal favorite causes, like your local shelter. And they provide a bonus to both, allowing donors to do the most good to combat factory farming while supporting causes close to their hearts.
Please listen, share and if you are able, please consider donating to FarmKind:
https://www.farmkind.giving/split-and-boost?utm_source=speciesunite&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=speciesunite
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"We may think that we're just eating our dinner tonight, but when you multiply it by all of that food every day, every day of the year, everyone in the country, everybody in the world, it's a tremendous production. Just to give you a sense, in the US, we slaughter about 18,000 animals every minute for food just in the United States." - Peter Lehner
Agriculture and our food system are responsible for about a third of greenhouse gas emissions. That is an enormous amount. Yet, the food system is all too often left out of climate conversations and is rarely held accountable for its destruction to our planet. I asked Peter Lehner to come on the show to explain some of this, to talk about agriculture's role in climate and how and why they are so often left off the hook.
I asked Peter Lehner to come on the show and explain what agriculture's role is in climate, and how and why they are so often left off the hook. Peter is one of the leading experts on the impact of agriculture and climate change. He directs Earth Justice's Sustainable Food and Farming program, developing litigation, administrative and legislative strategies to promote a more just and environmentally sound agriculture system and to reduce health, environmental and climate harms from the production of our food. He is also the author of farming for Our Future The Science, Law and Policy of Climate Neutral Agriculture. He also teaches at Columbia and Yale Law schools.
Please listen and share.
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"Why do we need large carnivores? Obviously as a scientist, I like talk about the biological roles that they play and the ecological roles, but I will drift and say that I think they're important for spirit and sort of human health more broadly, whether that be mental health, spiritual health, whatever, that sense of wildness that they bring to a landscape, that they force you to listen when you're in the woods, that you hear sticks break around you, that you hear what the birds are doing so that you know whether there's something coming around the next bend. These are all, in my opinion, truly enriching moments and necessary for human spirit and really for human health." - Mark Elbroch
Mark: [00:12:23] These are all, in my opinion, truly enriching moments and necessary for human spirit and [00:12:30] really for human health
Mark Elbroch is an ecologist and author, storyteller and the director of the Puma Program for Panthera, the global wild cat conservation organization.
Mark has been on the podcast before to talk about cougars, but something has changed since the last time he was on. For years, many people in the scientific community, and this is backed by research, have claimed that cougars would return to their historic range in the eastern US in the next 10 to 20 years.
But there's a new study from Panthera that says that this is not true, that they won’t make it to the East Coast even by 2100, which means, if we want cougars in the east we're going to have to help them.
This is a big deal because we do want cougars in the east. Large predators make fragile ecosystems strong. Mountain lions interact with nearly 500 other species and their reintroduction could lead to healthier forests, less zoonotic disease, and many other benefits.
Let’s bring cougars home!
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“And so I've been doing this for about 40 years, and I still don’t get tired of seeing parrots. I see a parrot or I see a bird and I go, I belong. There is such beauty in the world. Oh my gosh. It's like everything is okay for a minute you're intrigued, you're curious, you're seeing beauty, you're seeing flight. But at the same time, you've trained yourself to hold the tragedy because there aren't nearly as many as there used to be and there's all kinds of complex threats against them, and there's little we can do. So you see a wild parrot that is also the internal conversation, they're in trouble, it's not like it was or it should be or could be. So that's what it's like to see a parrot is to see the beautiful and the tragic.” – Rev. Dr. LoraKim Joyner
I only learned recently that parrots are the most endangered group of birds on the planet. As with so many other species, our tendency to take and take is what is driving parrots toward extinction. We've been stealing them from the wild for 60 years to live these pitiful lives in cages, in people's kitchens. That, combined with habitat loss and climate change is pushing these spectacular birds to the brink of extinction.
This conversation is with Rev. Dr. LoraKim Joyner, a wildlife veterinarian, a conservationist, a Unitarian minister, and co-founder of One Earth Conservation. LoraKim has spent the last 40 years in Latin and South America, working with communities to save their parrots – by building their capacity to transform poachers into protectors.
One Earth Conservation grows conservationists of all ages by empowering and standing in solidarity and resistance with the people of the Americas. They have projects in Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Guyana, Paraguay, and Suriname.
To learn more: https://www.oneearthconservation.org/
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“In terms of specialized AI within these industries. They're years and years ahead of where the animal movement currently is. Factory farms are increasingly using AI as well to do things like predicting the growth rate of chickens so that they can set the environmental variables up perfectly to exploit these animals as efficiently as possible.” – Sam Tucker
Sam Tucker is the founder of Open Paws, a nonprofit aimed at creating ethically aligned AI systems and he’s the creator of Veg 3, an AI chatbot promoting animal rights.
Sam’s expertise in AI development and animal protection provides both a practical and theoretical understanding of how to create technologies that benefit all species.
I asked Sam to come on the show because I want to understand how we, Species Unite and other organizations like us can be using AI to be way more effective.
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“We enacted what's called the Beagle Freedom Project Bill. Basically, what it said was, if you're a facility that tests on dogs and cats, when the testing is over, you are mandated to release those animals to give them a second chance at life to a 501C3 charity like Beagle Freedom Project or any other type of facility like that, like a rescue facility. You wouldn't believe how hard that was to pass.” – Shannon Keith
The story sounds like a dream: hundreds of animals used for research and testing are now free and the former prison that they were forced to call home has been torn down to become a safe and loving animal sanctuary.
This conversation was done as a live interview a few weeks ago. It's with me and Shannon Keith, the president and founder of the Beagle Freedom Project. I invited her on to discuss the shutdown of a massive dog and cat testing laboratory in Nowata, Oklahoma. Not only did the Beagle Freedom Project and Shannon shut down this laboratory, but they rescued all of the dogs and cats that were being tested on there, and they took over the laboratory and it's grounds and are in the process of transforming it into a 30-acre sanctuary called Freedom Fields.
The closure of this laboratory ends one-third of the toxic flea and tick testing industry in the United States, sparing the lives of thousands of dogs and cats.
Beagle Freedom Project is the world’s leading organization for rescuing and rehoming animals used in experimental research. Since 2010, they have liberated thousands of animals while working to end their abuse through education, advocacy, and legislation.
We talk about the shutdown, the rescue of hundreds of animals that were being tested on, and the magic of transforming a dark and terrifying animal research lab into a beautiful sanctuary. And, we discuss not only how to help these former research animals, but also the more than one hundred million still being used for testing and research in the United States.
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"And the thing that really makes me sad is that we humanize them when they're little, by putting them in diapers and feeding them bottles and dressing them in clothes. And then we demonize them when they grow up and act like the wild animal that they are, because people think if they neuter them, if they get their teeth removed - not my chimp, my chimp is not going to act like that." - Angela Scott
Last week we released an episode with Brittany Peet, PETA's general counsel for captive animal law enforcement, who is featured in the HBO docuseries, Chimp Crazy. If you haven't seen it, please see it. It's made by Eric Goode, the guy who made Tiger King, and it is equally shocking. It also shines a light on the need to pass the Captive Primate Safety Act and there are many high hopes that that act could get passed this year because of Chimp Crazy.
Chimp Crazy focuses on chimpanzee owners, private owners that buy cute baby chimps, dress them up and treat them like human children until they are 5 or 6 years old, when the chimps become large, and very strong wild animals. This part usually ends badly. Well, it always ends badly for the chimps but quite often it does for the humans too.
This conversation is with Angela Scott, the whistleblower in Chimp Crazy, and for this entire case.
A little background: Angela volunteered at a place called Chimp Party for a woman named Connie Casey. Connie and her husband Mike bred and sold chimpanzees and other primates for decades.
PETA got involved because of the horrific conditions these chimps were living in. Angela was the whistleblower who worked with PETA. But before the case could fully go through, Connie gave her chimps to a woman named Tonya Haddix. And the chimps were in Tanya’s care when they were rescued, all except for one, a chimp named Tonka. Tanya tried to keep Tonka for herself and she hid him from PETA for months in a cage in her basement.
All of the chimps, including Tonka, were eventually saved because of Angela’s willingness to go back to Connies and film what she saw. Angela’s stories of what these chimps went through are astonishing and I am so grateful to her for sharing them with us.
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“I mean, it's an addiction, an obsession, a sickness that these people seem to have that they don't think that it could happen to them. And even when it does, they are still in denial about it.” - Brittany Peet
There's a new docuseries on HBO called, Chimp Crazy. If you haven't seen it, see it. It's made by Eric Goode, the guy who made Tiger King, and it is equally shocking .
Chimp Crazy focuses on chimpanzee owners, private owners that buy cute baby chimps, dress them up and treat them like human children until they are 5 or 6 years old, when the chimps become large, and very strong wild animals. This part usually ends badly. Well, it always ends badly for the chimps but quite often it does for the humans too.
This conversation is with Brittany Peet, PETA's general counsel for captive animal law enforcement. Brittany makes quite a few appearances in Chimp Crazy - she is one of the PETA lawyers who freed the captive chimps in the show, and has spent her career working to free many other captive, chimps, primates and other wild animals throughout the US.
Please listen, share and if you haven’t seen it, please watch Chimp Crazy.
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"So this relationship to ourselves, to other people, to other animals - whether farm animals or wild animals, it's very bizarre how we have gotten it so twisted in what we expect and what we feel entitled to over here in the the Global North." - Katherine Baxter
Katherine Baxter is the CEO of the Africa Network for Animal Welfare-USA (ANAW). ANAW-USA works to advance the welfare of animals, humans and the environment by facilitating mutually beneficial and reciprocal exchanges between the United States and Africa.
Their mission is to work with their sister organization in Kenya, ANAW, and other partners, to advance the inseparable welfare of animals, humans, and the environment by facilitating mutually beneficial exchanges of resources and knowledge between the United States and Africa.
I asked Katherine to come on the show to talk about ANAW and some of ANAW's coexistence programs in Kenya, including an incredible sunflower project has solved huge problems with human-elephant conflict.It makes me crazy that we in the US are incredibly resistant to many (or most) coexistence programs yet our stakes are pretty low. In the US, if a wolf kills a sheep, the rancher is reimbursed and except for the poor sheep, life goes on. Whereas in villages close to Tsavo National Park in Kenya, people lose entire crops to elephant herds, are financially ruined, and some even lose their lives - yet they are much more willing to explore and try coexistence programs that benefit all - the crops, the people and the elephants.
If we want to live in a country where wildlife and predators still roam, then we need to put the guns down and start paying attention to ideas and initiatives like the ones that Katherine talks about here. We have much to learn.
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“There are more native crocodiles living in cages and concrete pens that are owned by Hermes or supplying Louis Vuitton than live in their natural habitat. So, that is so clearly not conservation. And we're talking like hundreds of thousands of crocodiles.” – Emma Hakansson
We are destroying the planet, killing billions of animals and making life insufferable for humans all over the world, all in the name of fashion. But, Emma Hakansson is on a mission to change all of it. She is the founding director of Collective Fashion Justice, an organization dedicated to creating a total ethics fashion system which prioritizes the wellbeing of people, our fellow animals and the planet, before profit.
And some of the bags are even like Nile crocodile and crocodiles from different parts of the world and the level of exclusivity is based on like how rare that skin is. And it seems to not even connect in their mind that, like, maybe if an animal is rare, it means that they should be being protected rather than made into a bag that you think is special. And I think that's where a disconnect from nature comes into play. Like if we really connected with nature and saw the beauty of it, we would want to protect it more in its natural state, and we would see higher value in fashion that appreciates nature and takes inspiration from nature, but that doesn't take from it and destroy it or kill it. – Emma Hakansson
Emma has consulted on passed progressive fashion legislation in New York City, spoken at the European Parliament, been invited to provide expertise in Parliament inquiries in Australia, and offered her expertise to global brands and fashion councils seeking to improve their ethics and sustainability.
Her latest book, Total Ethics Fashion, explores the namesake term that she coined to guide the fashion industry forward.Please listen and share and if you do purchase something this week, please shop consciously.
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"I cannot put enough emphasis on this. I have seen so many things that are so weird that even when I would show it to law enforcement at first, before there were like a lot of these cases coming out, law enforcement would look and they'd be like, “what? Why would someone do this?” Right? As if what I'm showing them wasn't real. And what I learned to say to get past that is, I would say to cops, “how many times have you seen someone do something for reasons they can't even explain to themselves?" - Pete Paxton
For the past 23 years, Pete Paxton has been working undercover in puppy mills, factory farms, slaughterhouses, pet stores, and on-board commercial fishing boats to document horrific cruelty. Some of these high-stress, horror show jobs last for weeks while others go on for months at a time - months of ten-hour days, doing hard, heavy labor, witnessing animals being abused or killed and watching your co-workers hurt the already abused animals even more.
Pete does it because he is good at it, because he loves animals and because his work has often resulted in big change for animals.
What perplexes me the most about Pete, is that after 23 years of working in hellish places like slaughterhouses and factory farms, he hasn’t become dark and dour. Instead, he is the opposite. He's extremely funny, super engaging and seriously joyful. He doesn’t allow this work to take him down. Most people I know, me included, would be a shell of a human being after a couple of hours in his world.
Pete is also the author of Rescue Dogs and has had two HBO documentaries made about him and his work, Dealing Dogs and Death on a Factory Farm.
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“You asked what kind of army we are. Cleveland Amory once said it. He said, “the army of the kind.” And that's it. If there's anything going on, we find it irresistible not to speak out, to do something, to say something, to enlist other people to help because we're not some superhuman force, we're a collection of humans.” Ingrid Newkirk
Ingrid Newkirk co-founded People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) in 1980, and since then, I don’t think there has been a single day that she has not fought against injustice toward animals. She is not only a hero for millions of animals but also for humans, for showing all of us how to make change happen and for inspiring us to do it.
Since it was founded, PETA has exposed horrific animal abuse in laboratories, leading to many firsts, including canceled funding, closed facilities, seizure of animals, and charges filed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. PETA has also closed the largest horse-slaughter operation in North America, convinced dozens of major designers and hundreds of companies to stop using fur, ended all car-crash tests on animals, helped schools switch to innovative animal-free dissection tools, and provided millions of people with information on being vegan, companion animal care, and countless other issues.
Ingrid just celebrated her 75th birthday, so we got together to take a look back at her life and the life of PETA.
Happy Birthday, Ingrid!
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“50% of clothing that gets created ends up in a landfill in the first year. When we're using way too much resource in the first place, the fact that half of that is going directly to landfill in the first year is insane. And then, what actually makes it into our closets, we wear about 20% of on a trailing 12 month basis. So if you think about just the actual amount of utility that we get out of this massive system is insane. And that's just the waste part of it.” – Vanessa Barboni Hallik
Vanessa Barboni Hallik is the founder and CEO of Another Tomorrow, a luxury brand that is doing fashion better. Much much better. They’re a B Corp Certified end-to-end sustainable design company with a mission to model a new future for fashion with a fully digitized product eco-system delivering technology-enabled transparency and authenticated recommerce. If other brands would follow Another Tomorrow's lead, humans, the planet and billions of animals would benefit enormously.
Vanessa is also an investor in early-stage companies positioned to catalyze systemic change. And she serves on the Advisory Board for Harvard's Carr Center for Human Rights Policy, where current work focuses on the ethics of AI.
Prior to founding Another Tomorrow, Vanessa was a Managing Director at Morgan Stanley, where she held several leadership roles in the emerging markets institutional securities business. Throughout her career she has worked across global markets and managed culturally diverse and cross-border teams.
Vanessa is an active speaker on innovation, digitalization and new business models built for resilience. She has been featured in The New York Times, Fast Company, Bloomberg, Forbes and Vogue for her work, and is one of Wallpaper* Magazine’s USA300 and Worth Magazine’s Worthy100.
Please listen and share.
In gratitude,
Elizabeth Novogratz
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“I think one of the reasons dignity matters to animals is that they are objectified. They are stripped of their agency very often, and they're also caught up in power relations with human beings that do not go in their favor in, in the overwhelming number of cases. But it's also grounds why they have a right to be subjects of justice, doesn't it? So, it is the fact that they are subjects, that they are agents, that they their voices matter in a political sense.” – Melanie Challenger
Melanie Challenger wears a lot of hats— she’s an artist, philosopher, poet and writer, deputy co-chair of the Nuffield Council on Bioethics and a Vice President of the RSPCA UK. She is the author of On Extinction: How we became estranged from nature (2011), How to Be Animal: What it means to be human (2021), and anthology editor of Animal Dignity: Philosophical Reflections on Non-human Existence (2023).
Melanie is bringing her decades of experience in both science and the arts to come up with a solution to a big question: how can non-human animals be represented in the process of making crucial decisions that affect their lives? This project is called Animals in the Room. It began during the pandemic and is an international collaboration of philosophers, scientists and animal welfare specialists who are working together to devise and test models for representing non-human.
Links:
Melanie Challenger: https://www.melaniechallenger.com/about/
Animals in the Room: https://animalsintheroom.org/
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“Anybody with half a heart could understand that this is a very bad deal for these feeling beings. Waking up every day at the same place where these horrible things happened, it's not right.” – Gene Grant
It’s been almost a decade since the National Institutes of Health ended the use of chimpanzees for biomedical research. But today we still have scores of chimpanzees sitting in labs. They’re not being tested on, but they are still waiting to be moved into a sanctuary.
This is happening even though there is a law in place that established a federal sanctuary system to provide lifetime care for chimpanzees retired from medical research.
26 of these former research chimpanzees live in the Alamogordo Primate Facility on Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. I asked Gene Grant, the chief program and policy officer for Animal Protection New Mexico, to come on the show and talk about why all these years later, these chimps have still not been moved to a sanctuary. And how that changes.
LINKS
Animal Protection New Mexico https://apnm.org/
Chimp Haven https://chimphaven.org/donate/
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/23/science/chimpanzees-research-retirement.html
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“There was a farmer who I met. He had the craziest [story], but not crazy because it's happening everywhere. A hog horn rammed into him and he got a disease. No one had any idea what it was. He went septic. He almost died. And he figured out that his herd had gotten an antibiotic resistant bug because of the way he was farming.” – Chloe Sorvino
Chloe Sorvino leads coverage of food and agriculture as a staff writer at Forbes. She writes the newsletter, Mind Feeder, and founded the Forbes newsletter Fresh Take.
Chloe is also the author of Raw Deal: Hidden Corruption, Corporate Greed and the Fight for the Future of Meat, an exposé into the power and corruption of America’s meat industry.
Nearly a decade of reporting at Forbes has brought her to In-N-Out Burger’s secret test kitchen, drought-ridden farms in California’s Central Valley, burnt-out national forests logged by a timber billionaire, and Costco's rotisserie chicken slaughterhouse in Nebraska. Sorvino serves as a steward on the Forbes Union unit council. Her work has been featured in the Los Angeles Times, NPR, Fast Company, the Financial Times, the New York Times, New York Magazine, Civil Eats, Modern Farmer, Salon and many more.
Chloe Sorvino: https://www.chloesorvino.com/
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“We want to know that we're not separate from all beings - because most of our grief, our fear, our anger comes from feeling separate, not feeling connected, we're constantly finding ways to connect.” – Nina Rao
Nina Rao runs an organization called Saving Wild Tigers, a project that raises funds and supports conservation efforts for tigers throughout India. Three of the eight tiger subspecies that roamed Asia only 50 years ago are gone. And the remaining population is under severe threats from habitat loss, hunting of its prey and poaching. The future is uncertain for tigers.
Saving Wild Tiger’s supports the immediate needs of the wild tigers: protecting the tiger, its habitat, its prey and its protectors; supporting the surrounding villages (community-based conservation), scientific studies to understand the needs of the tigers and control of poaching and international trade of tiger parts.
Nina also is a chantress. She learned traditional chants (bhajans) from her grandfather in a village in south India when she was nine years old. The chants quietly stayed with her until she rediscovered chanting with Krishna Das, in New York in 1996. Krishna Das is a singer/chanter known globally or his performances of Hindu devotional music called kirtan. Nina is Krishna Das' business manager and accompanist as well as a chant leader on her own.
Nina is also a podcast host on the widely-heard Be Here Now Network, exploring spirituality, practice, and conservation of wilderness and Nature.
Links:
https://www.savingwildtigers.org/
https://www.ninaraochant.com/
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