#911: Building Your Perfect Day Is as Easy as This

5 Nov · Dental A Team Podcast

00:30:42

Often when scheduling appointments, it’s all about the patient. But what about the doctor or team members? Britt and Tiff give tips for scheduling while keeping efficiency and quality in mind (for both parties).

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:01.057)

Hello everyone out there listening. I am so excited to be here today. I have snagged the one and only Britt Stone again today to do some podcasting with me. Britt, how are you today?

Britt (00:13.087)

doing great. I mean, we're cooling off a little here in Arizona and it's a great time of year. Fall's beautiful.

The Dental A Team (00:19.89)

I agree. I loved the weekend weather. I know you weren't here for all of it. You had an awesome vacation, but it was really truly beautiful. And then I saw, well, Sunday got a little bit warmer. We went for a hike and we were like, well, this is a little bit warmer. And then I saw, gosh, by Thursday we're supposed to be like 95 again. So it's only here for, I think the heat's only here for a moment again. And then we'll drop back down, but it has been a wild.

summer, like it's still summer here. I don't know how we're still experiencing summer. And I know, Brett, you and I both grew up here and I think people always ask us like, how do you do it? And we're like, I don't know, it's like three months of heat. And I think this year they challenged us and they were like, the universe was like, I'm gonna give you six months. And then their nature said, no, we're gonna like see if you can handle this. I feel as though I've never experienced anything like this in my life of living here.

Britt (01:10.389)

I mean, we broke some records. Sometimes that's an exciting thing and sometimes that's not an exciting thing to say.

The Dental A Team (01:16.857)

Totally agree. Not the records I wanted to break, but that's okay. We're still alive. You guys were still surviving. and I think we both probably, yeah. And I think we both probably can still say that we love where we live. So I love it. Love it. Love it. Thank you for being here. today I really wanted to pick your brain on some efficient appointment, scheduling, tips and tricks for the doctors out there. I really want to speak to, we always speak to both doctors and teams, but I really wanted to speak to doctors today and I wanted to

Britt (01:23.351)

I'm not trying any place.

The Dental A Team (01:46.223)

pick your brain a little extra because I you've really, really hard on some efficiency tips within the, you know, cost world as well. So we'll dive more into that. But Britt, from hygiene perspective as well, dental assistant perspective, we've got all of those different spaces. I'm really, really looking at efficient appointment scheduling. And for me, I'm constantly reminding teams, team members and

doctors because I think doctors will stick their foot in their mouth sometimes too, to really, really look at what's working well for your practices flow. Like what's going to work best for you. And as the doctor of the practice, like when do you want to do these appointments? Do you want to do a root canal at 8 a.m.? Maybe possibly like do the root canal at 8 a.m. Right? Do you want to do a root canal at 2 p.m.? Would you rather do it, you know, after lunch, before lunch? Like where do you feel the most yourself?

and the happiest to do these procedures because if we're just constantly looking at where the patient wants to come in, what's convenient for the patient, that's not always going to give them the best experience. So in that moment of scheduling.

The patient might be excited and happy because they got the appointment that they wanted, but when they get there for the appointment, are they getting the best experience that they possibly can based on the flow and energy of the practice? Or did we just schedule you something super late in the day when you're exhausted and tired and you've been working so hard or you had pizza for lunch and you're like, I don't want to do this freaking root canal. Like, I don't know. know my doctor that I worked with side by side for years, hated nothing more than coming back from lunch and having

fillings, like interproximal fillings and crown seats for three hours. He was like, this is going to be the worst three hours of the day because it was so much movement. It's like, just want one crowd, like, or one long appointment, right? Like I just needed one patient with three crowns. Like I just want one something long that we can just sit down, dig in, be done. All of that like crazy running around and like sporadic energy.

The Dental A Team (03:48.869)

for him needed to be earlier in the day when he was more like spry, right? He's just like ready to run. And I could appreciate that too because I felt the very same. And so when we figured that out for this doctor specifically, we were able to really switch the way the day works. It was better for me as his assistant.

It was easier for me when I was doing scheduling and the patients actually had a better experience. So when I think of effective and efficient appointment scheduling, it's one of the first places that my brain goes is really what does the doctor want? I think we tend to look at what do our patients want? What does our team want? Our team wants easy and it's easy to let the patient dictate the schedule. But we forget to say the doctors, what do you want your day to look like? And I think

Today, focusing super hard on that doctor aspect and really leveling up how much the doctors take into consideration and take that control on within that is what I'm here for today. Britt, what are your thoughts on that efficient appointment scheduling and from a doctor's side, like a doctor's angle, what could that look like for them?

Britt (05:00.515)

with you and everyone's different right some doctors want the big things in the morning and the smaller things in the afternoon some function the opposite and the reason why ultimately we want to know what doctor wants and how they're gonna work best is because one when doctors always are limiting factor right so like when we can have them functioning at their best everything's gonna run a little bit smoother and so like you said when it comes to guiding patients in the schedule think of

What's going to help everything over all run smoother? Because that's going to give the patient a better experience. The team's going to be functioning a little bit better. The day's just going to run smoother when our limiting factor, which is doctor, is able to function at their best. And when they're functioning at their best, they're also going to be the most efficient. So I love that when it comes to taking that into account.

And we'll talk about some things today that are even some like good like numbers or metrics to know of and be aware of to see like, it working? Is it not? Where are we? What can we improve upon? Right? Because at the end of the day, I know all my doctors, right? We want to be able to also like produce as much as we can in the time we're there, right? You're spending time away from your family, you're working. So how can we do the most with the time that you are spending at the office? And it does come down to scheduling and there's some ways to track it to know exactly how we're doing.

with this, whenever I start to talk numbers, I'll always say, we always want patient experience to be fantastic. And of course, quality of work to be fantastic, which we know you guys do as well. And there is a point where you can like push that line a little too far. So when we're talking about these things, even when it comes to scheduling, quality of work and quality of patient experience are always top of mind. we make sure we remember those. But some good numbers to look at to see how we're doing when it comes to scheduling will be like your doctor

production per hour. So do you know how it's averaging out so you can take your whole entire month? How many hours did you work in that month, are patient hours? We know you guys work a lot more hours, but how many patient hours did you work? And what's your production per hour? Because that's when it comes to efficiency or how is our block schedule working. That's kind of what we're playing with is how much can you do within the time that you have? And if that number is low or not where we need it to be, then

Britt (07:17.377)

How can we be more efficient, schedule more appropriately with the correct production, or tighten up the schedule if we can and still giving that a great experience and the quality that we need to have there. What can we do to get that production per hour up? So it's a good number for doctors to track. If you don't know your number, figure it out, super easy. What did you produce last month? How many patient hours did you have available on the schedule?

divide it and it'll give you your production per hour and then you know where you're starting and then you know where you can go.

The Dental A Team (07:51.121)

I love to do that formula as well in looking for open hours on the schedule because it really, really shows us how efficient or effective we could have been or what we could have produced as well. So efficient appointment scheduling, think with the block scheduling, you guys, we talk about block scheduling all the time. So we're not gonna dive into block scheduling a ton today. There are a million podcasts on it. Like reach out to us, [email protected] if you need more information on that.

So we're not going to do that right now, but when you do have that set, which is what Britt and I were alluding to, like where do you want to do these procedures? Where do you want them scheduled? How do you want your day to flow? When you have those things set, meaning you have to know how long it takes you and your assistant to complete certain appointments, you need to know.

how many of each appointment you need in a day to get to your production projections, right? Like what's my goal for production per day? I'm gonna build that out and do a perfect day schedule and then I'm gonna go back through and like Britt said, really count my hours. And you can do this for hygiene, you can do this for a doctor, count how many hours were available to be scheduled and divide your production by that to get your dollar per hour, to get your hygienist dollar per hour.

If you've got assistants who are operating as producers because they're FDs or whatever you've got in your state, you can do it for all of those different spaces and really see how well you or your associate or your high-dense or dental assistants are really paying for yourselves and what that could look like. Now on the flip side of that, I like to go in then and say, okay, well, this is my dollar per hour goal. Owner doctors, Britt.

Tell me if I'm completely off base here. I'm typically gonna have my owner doctors 850 plus per hour. My associates, I'm like 550 to 750. I would love to see an associate at 850. Totally possible. Owner doctors, I would love to see you closer to like 1050, 1200. Like those are the numbers I would love. PPOs, like they're gonna drastically change that for you. But we can work around it and it's the time of year to ask for being pieces, all those pieces. So we don't need to get into that today, but those are like.

The Dental A Team (10:04.485)

good goals to mull around. So then what I do on that note of the schedule, right, is look at these were my available hours. Well, as I'm doing my available hours, I'm also going to count my open hours. I just did this actually. I was in Utah a couple weeks ago with a prized practice and I just did this for him because he's like, tiff, like, we just tanked. I don't know what happened. And so I went through the whole year and I did available hours.

Britt (10:22.58)

Thank

The Dental A Team (10:33.214)

And then at the same time, I had one screen was available hours. The screen over here was open hours and it was how many for each provider I did the doctor, I did all of his hygienists and I did it for each one. And I said, okay, so we're about 40 to 50,000 off from the goal we've set this year. Let me show you where it's at. And we could literally pinpoint the month that had enough open hours just for him alone, not even including hygiene that was that gap.

the month, like not even just production for sure. You can say like, we were down a little bit here, but there was a month that he should have far exceeded the production, the monthly production goal that they had set that he was still under. But you could easily see because we had that perfect day scheduling in, we had the blocks in there. We were able to easily see how much he should have been doing and then calculate it backwards and forward. So we could do the lab measures to see

Why didn't we hit those goals and where was it and how could we have been more efficient with our appointments? And then the lead measures to see, okay, well, if that's the case, what do we have to do moving forward? So I love that you said to do that. And I think, too, what you're alluding to and what you're getting to with that is really looking at what are you doing now? Because then you can see, am I using this time efficiently and effectively? Like perhaps you've got the perfect day schedule in there.

and you've got your blocks, but maybe you did it two years ago or even six months ago and you're like, I'm still not where I thought I would be. So now go back through and see one, what were your open hours? And then two, is it actually working? Cause Brett, think I'm, you know, I've experienced this and tell me if you have where I've gone in and doctors are like either scheduled, not enough time.

for certain things and they're going late and now patients are like, but we're using blocks. And I'm like, but these patients are like waiting, like there's such an issue here. Or they're scheduled too long and then they've been done for an hour before the patient gets back. But on the schedule, they're not changing it. And so there's no reality set in. Have you seen that as well where doctors are like, well, I'm full and practices, right? Our teams are like filling the white space, it's full, but it's still not reaching goals.

Britt (12:57.111)

Yeah, and though agreed and you're right on your numbers. I'm like 500 minimum That's my low end for anyone per hour that you should be hitting so if you're not there Hey, that's an opportunity for you to get there and know where a benchmark is and agreed in a PPO office 500 to 850 like it's it's attainable fee for service and

Just to kind of clarify one thing when you say owner doctor right getting that 850 or plus Even easily some doctors into like thousand pretty easily or more Owner doctors usually when you start to bring on associates you get to do the more complex things that you like Usually to do and so you're getting those higher dollar procedures while associates are taking care of some of the lower dollar one Which is why we say that so just to give a little context behind some of those numbers

and agreed when we look at open space or how we're scheduling, then it's like, right, if I'm able to produce $850 an hour and I've just got like 30 minutes of slush time in there that we're not using, that's like opportunity costs. That's like 400 bucks easy that we're losing that if we scheduled better.

We could have added another $400 in that day just with that 30 minutes when it comes to scheduling. So starting to see the schedule in that way, it's not just full or not. It's what's the quality of the things that you fill it with and looking at those open space, like what's the opportunity cost? it is, it'll take your production per hour real quick when you've got that open space, because it's a big zero in there. So filling the schedule.

which I know everyone wants a full schedule, but it's like, all right, what are we doing and what do we need to work on and are we filling it in the right way? So just viewing the schedule in that way and helping your team to see it, right? Sometimes team members don't see it that way, but you see it that way now and helping them to understand what we could put in there. And with timing, when it comes to efficiency in the schedule, right? If doctors...

Britt (14:57.449)

always give time for your assistants. So I'm not saying like tighten up your schedule so much and forget about your assistants and the time they need to turn around a room or do what they need to do. But it might be a good time if you're not hitting the production per hour that you want to, to start kind of seeing how long does it actually take you to do procedures and do a time study and say, all right, how long does it take? Can we schedule smarter or more efficiently with reality of how long it takes instead of kind of adding in some buffer time?

The Dental A Team (15:25.663)

Totally, totally makes sense. And something you said there was really that cost per hour that you just lost with that slush time. So there's that happy medium, you guys, that Britt is mentioning where it's like patient experience, right? Patient experience trumps everything. And so you need that slush for the patient experience, fine, but really evaluate, did you actually need it? So there's a lot of practices we work with that the doctors are like, I need to build relationship.

100 % we are relationship driven people and we are a relationship driven company. So we are never going to discredit that or take that away from you. But what tools are we using to help build that relationship? Is your support team supporting you in that? Are they passing off information? Are they having conversations with you, with the patient? You know, are they just standing there stoic and quiet like, I'm waiting for you to initiate, right? Like your dental assistant needs to be like,

engaged and having conversations because if that's all on you, it's going to take you extra time and you're in there for a very short amount of time in comparison to your support team, whether it's hygiene or dental assistance. So ensuring that they're giving you that proper information and those handoffs and really involving you in conversations that they are or have had with the patient far outweighs and exponentially increases that relationship with the patient. And so it.

decreases the amount of time and effort you're having to put in to create that relationship and to add that extra value. You're actually adding more value because they feel a relationship with two or three or how many ever of you there are, they're feeling that relationship with multiple people and they feel an attachment to the practice. so take some of the stress off yourselves, ask the support team to really support you, right? Call them your support team. That's what they are there.

to do, especially your dental assistants, they're there to support you and support the patient and see how can I increase the efficiency, the timing, right? The experience without making things longer. Because now that 30 minute slash time, that potentially $400, right? You can slide something else in there and know your patient got a better experience potentially.

The Dental A Team (17:44.809)

than what they may have with that slush time, right? Patients wanna be in and out as well. You've just gotta do it in a way that doesn't feel rushed. And number one, your treatment has to be good. Your work needs to be good. You've gotta take the time that you need to accomplish great dentistry and then make everything else really, really efficient and effective. People appreciate that. People appreciate when you value their time as well.

and you're not just kind of dilly-dallying. You're like, yeah, let's get this done. It's gonna be freaking amazing. And as long as you keep that high energy there, they're gonna trust it they're gonna come back. Britt, you have this incredible sheet that you showed us recently for consultants. You've been working your tail off on. We don't even talk about the whole sheet, but kind of talk for a second about how you're doing the cost analysis by procedure, maybe even just like a crown, like to really

not only look at your doctor per hour, dollar per hour doctors, but also to look at how effective is the cost management per hour or per procedure. So walk us through that just real quick and they can get a little smidgen of an idea.

Britt (18:58.399)

Yeah, some of the things that we'll work through with our clients when we know, all right, let's look at how efficient we're running and what the cost is for things is looking at what does it actually cost us for a procedure? like breaking it down by the amount of time, how much is like the facility costs? How much does it cost me for my assistant? How much am I paying the doctor associate for this procedure? And then what's my lab fee? What's the cost of all the supplies that are used for that procedure?

So I can truly see what is that overhead for that procedure. And especially for some of our lab procedures, especially when you get to like your all on X cases or sleep appliances even, places where depending on where you've got your fee or what insurance fees that you're contracted with.

The Dental A Team (19:39.098)

for sure.

Britt (19:47.209)

Sometimes that profitability is not so great or sometimes even in the negative on some of these procedures Which just allows you that information allows you one. It's a reality check a gut check a little bit Allows us to straddle up strategize a little bit better to see all right What procedures are worth us doing right? I'll say if you love doing it then let's figure out a way to do it to where it's also Profitable so it makes business sense along with the things that you love to do If you don't love to do it and it's not super profitable for you

maybe you refer those things out because it's just not necessarily like completely worth the time. But until you start to kind of look at those things and know what the cost is, you don't have the information to make some of these decisions. And also it'll help you to guide you on insurance plans we are in network with.

When we get to the point of being able to go out of network, what ones do we want to go out of network with because our profitability on those procedures are just so low. So it's just good information to have to dig in to see, all right, where are we?

and you can play around with time, right? And efficiency. If you can go from 90 minutes to 60 minutes for something, that's gonna impact your profitability on that procedure. And it might just be that little switch if we can do it a little more efficiently that allows us to be like, okay, that makes business sense for us to do that procedure. We just need to ensure that we're not taking a ridiculous amount of time on it.

The Dental A Team (21:11.642)

Yeah, I totally agree. I love that. And it made me think of a client that I have near and dear to my heart that was doing all on X cases in his practice. he liked them. He thought he loved them. And he got real tired of them real quickly. And we did a little cost analysis and really saw that, well, he realized for one that he brought them in because he thought they were going to be game changer for the practice. And it was going to be this

Britt (21:24.599)

you

The Dental A Team (21:41.62)

lucrative situation where he could take a step back and he could do a couple all-in-x's a month and be done. Like he didn't have to do all of these other little pieces. And so he thought, that's going to bump production collections. My overhead is going to be fantastic. I'm going to be profitable and I'm going to do less. And so he brought all-in-x in-house and come to find out, right? It's a lot of freaking work. And he was not, he wasn't bad at them. He was fantastic at them, but the follow-up.

And the denture work like who loves like if you love dentures, like you better shout it to the world because there are doctors out there that need to know you're there. We need to know where you are because we need to send you all of our dentures. Okay. If you love them, shout it to the world, right? Shout it from the rooftops. And he just was like, this is a pain in the butt to follow up and how many post-op appointments there are and adjustments and the dentures are this denture broke and I've got to remake it and I've got another lab cost and I've got

Britt (22:26.187)

Thank you.

The Dental A Team (22:39.102)

So when we did that kind of cost and time analysis, he realized real quickly, because when he came to us, he's like, I am, he has like 72 % overhead. He's like, where's my profitability? Right? He's like, I'm doing all my nexes. I'm like, well, let's figure that out. And so we realized real quickly that something that he semi liked that he thought he would love, that he thought was going to be a game changer for his practice was actually costing him money and losing profitability for the practice because of

just all of the pieces that were involved. And he was like, you know, I don't like it that much. Like I'm really not like, I'm really trying to get my feet wet with it. And it's a lot to deal with. It's a lot to handle. And Tiff, don't think I actually want to do this. I was like, fantastic, start referring them out. That's, it's okay. That's why oral surgeons are here. That's why, you know, there are other people who do love to do it. And for my oral surgery practices, like they are incredibly lucrative. They are a really great.

tool for those practices because they're not doing fillings and crowns and crown seats and limited exams and re care exams and new patients with it. So for this specific doctor, we did exactly that where we did this cost analysis, we did this appointment efficiency analysis, really looked at his dollar per hour, his hygiene dollar per hour, his open hour, like we did all of these things that we're talking about you guys and came down to what is it that you want to do in your practice?

And what are you doing that you're trying to save your practice with or create something that you don't actually love that could be costing you money and time. So we had to really take that analysis. Like he also, you know, hates doing fillings. So we're trying to figure that out, but most doctors are like, get these fillings off my schedule. So, you know, we try to figure that efficiency piece out too, but I think when it comes down to it, these steps that you're saying to take.

really are the make or break to really figuring out what your practice looks like and what it could look like. So inventory wise, right, I would say go through and make sure that your appointments are the way that you want them and the length of time that you want them. And encourage your team, you guys, when you go long or when you go short on an appointment, change it on the appointment book so you can see the reality because then I'm gonna tell you, like Britt said, I want you to go back.

The Dental A Team (24:57.214)

through and do an analysis of your actual dollar per hour. So in comparison to your production, what was your actual dollar per hour? And also look at your open hour time. So what could you have produced if we had scheduled more effectively? And then also I would go through on your procedures and do this cost analysis because I do think hand in hand with the appointment efficiency goes this. You want an efficient and excelled patient experience.

and you want an efficient appointment and to know your dollar per hour that you're supposed to be getting in conjunction to what the cost is per procedure based on the time you're taking, I think is just like the magic sauce of really figuring out what you can do with your practice.

I would do those things. And if you need help with them, if you need ideas, if you're like, I don't understand this cost analysis thing, because you guys, it was over my head for a split second too. And I was like, wait, say that again. Just reach out, [email protected] re-listen to this podcast, obviously, but always reach out. You guys were here for that. So Britt, is there anything that I missed in those action items or last minute thoughts you want to give to these incredible doctors who are listening today?

Britt (26:13.717)

Yeah, I think those are great action items to take and I think.

This is for our doctors that you're banging your head against the wall like how am I not as profitable as I want to be, right? What are the issues? Or you're like, I don't think we can fit anything else into our schedule, but I'm not as profitable as I want to be. These are the things that are going to give you the information to bring some reality to it. And sometimes it can be those conversations of like, hey, we've got those doctors, we've got those people we love them who are a little chatty and you can still have a great place to experience and not talk so long.

So like sometimes that's the reality of like, hey

We make a choice, right? Either let's adjust that, still chat, but like, it doesn't have to be as long and we can fit a little bit more into your schedule. Or like, you get a little bit more time for talking and we're as profitable as we can be or as efficient as we can be with our schedule if that's the ultimate patient experience you want to have. And so I'll just allow you to make smarter decisions. I mean, I've had some doctors that are in rural areas when it comes to certain types of procedures that maybe aren't the most profitable, but they're like, hey, I want to be able to provide that to my community.

Awesome. I love that. Let's just be aware of it, see if there's anything we can do to manage the overhead and make it efficient. And then we may just manage how many of them that we do out in one day or one week or one month to ensure your space to kind of make up the difference with other procedures.

The Dental A Team (27:38.389)

Yeah, okay, awesome. You guys, this was incredible. Britt, thank you so much for always being open to diving into more numbers with me than we do on a lot of the podcasts. This one or one is super dedicated to our amazing doctors who are out there really just trying to make sure that you're giving the best to your patients and that you're getting the best for yourselves because we at the Don't Ateam truly believe if you are giving exactly what people.

deserve if you're giving that experience that people deserve when they come to a dental practice, you will reap the rewards. And those rewards should be insane profitability. In our opinion, you should be insanely profitable. You should be living your dream life because you're giving an incredible thing to patients that they can't get anywhere else. So with that said, go do these things, go figure it out. If you need help, if you are a current client, reach out to your consultant, or to our consulting team because we're here to help you with that.

If you're not yet a client and you're a future client or you're someone who's just listening because you love listening to our voices, reach out. Hello at thedoubleAteam.com. You guys, we're here to help you and we will give you whatever information that we possibly can because we just want everyone to experience the best lives you truly possibly can. So Britt, thank you so much for being here. I cannot wait to hear how everyone loves this podcast, so drop a five star review below.

We wanna hear how much you love this. We wanna know how much you love diving into the numbers side and really, really effective doctor style items. Like I'm so excited for this one. So Britt, thank you everyone. Have a great rest of your day.

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Episodes

#928: Maintaining Patient Trust After A Senior Partner Leaves
12 Dec· Dental A Team Podcast
Dr. Brian Harris is back once more, this time talking about how he continued the practice after his father left. He touches on financial considerations (like selling to a DSO), growing pains being part of a first-of-its-kind DSO, and more.

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Listen to episode 840: Easy Way to Get More Patients

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:00.214)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am so pumped that you are back for day two with me and Brian Harris. We talked yesterday about partnerships and the different pieces about it. And now today we're actually going to talk about how to have a successful practice after the buy-in, which I think is so important and is not talked about. So get ready and as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast. And one other thing I want to talk about really quick is after you buy in. Yeah, let's talk about that.

Well, I just, you know, come like 2014, 15, 16, like, I don't have to practice for long time. And then I start getting to that point where, you know, you're like, I just want to, I want to have full control, you know, and you start thinking like, man, it'll be nice when this is just all mine, you know, and I will tell you, that's the one thing that I did not appreciate that senior doctor that's been there for so long.

They're the ones that have all the trust with the patients. They're the ones that they're the they're they're your most predictable producer that you're ever going to find is a doctor. Like you want them as your partner for as long as possible. And when they're ready to be bought out, you want them to stay on and continue to work for you as long as possible. There's that selfish side of all of us that I think we're like, I just want to call this all mine. I just want it to be mine so I can make all the decisions. But

it's really, really hard to replace a family member, especially if it's like your father that you're working with. It's going to be really hard to replace them from a production standpoint with an associate doctor, but also the stress of having to worry about somebody else's work and are they doing a good job? Are they being fair? When you have someone that you trust, especially when it's family, you don't ever have to worry about that. You don't ever have to worry about them pissing patients off or saying the wrong thing to staff or, know, it's like,

I think that's totally undervalued that there's so much value in having, you know, a long trip partner continue as a partner in the practice and continue as an associate after. Yeah, no, that's brilliant. And also just thinking, as you were saying it, I don't think that we value the wisdom and the mentorship of that senior partner. You can't put a price tag on it and you can't even realize, but I guarantee you.

The Dental A Team (02:20.683)

Your dad taught you a lot about how to run a practice from a successful standpoint. He'd gone through a lot of things. Like you said, like trusted with the patients. That's what's built a lot of this foundation for you that I think like, yes, agree. I think it's good that we have egos to a point because they drive us. But at the same time, realizing how much you can learn from that doctor, that senior partner before they leave you.

Now, of course, there's some senior partners that aren't as great. understand that, so, depending upon your partnership. But if you have a good business partner, if they're good with the business, if they're good with production, if they're great with patients, if they've built something of a legacy, if they want to leave a legacy, I think those partners are just invaluable. And so kudos, thank you for bringing that up because, yeah, I think it is easy to wanna like move on. Like, I wanna take this on, but gosh, there's a...

There is a lot of wisdom in that. And also for, I'm sure for your dad and for those senior partners to have a place that they also trust, like to pass it to you and to see it flourish and to be able to continue to work and do their passion for as long as they want, I think is also a gift you can give that senior partner for building a practice that you were able to buy to grow, flourish, just allowing them to finish out their career in a way that they want to, I think is also pretty incredible. Yeah, I agree. How do you navigate the DSO world now?

I'm just gonna like dive into like all the like, juices, like, what do do? Because like, you can hold it for a legacy. How do you navigate legacy dental practices versus selling to a DSO that's paying top dollar right now? I just want to ask all the questions, Brian. I'm here for you. Do you know my story, right? Yeah, tell our listeners. Yeah. So I mean, I think it's, I think it's absolutely a conversation needs to be had. One of the things I didn't recognize

And I don't even think Scott and I recognized it when we bought my dad out is, you know, we went and paid him what the practice is worth. And then we were like, wait, you know, we have a eight and a half, $9 million practice. Now, who's going to buy into this? Yeah. Who's going to be the other third partner that's going to come in and, you know, and pay, you know, $3 million to buy in just a fraction of ownership and a practice. and so we, kind of got ourselves to this place where we're like,

The Dental A Team (04:37.333)

we're kind of stuck, you know, and it's a great thing. it's either, okay, good, continue, just continue to do what you're doing and figure it out 20 years from now when we're ready to retire. Or, you know, do you take advantage of joining a DSO? Do you take advantage of creating a partnership now and growing with them? And what does that look like? And so, I mean, we turned down

14, 15 different offers. mean, we would get it. We'd get approached all the time and it just never, it never made sense. And ultimately we were approached by a group. did it not make sense? Explain why it didn't make sense. It didn't make sense for me because it was like,

The Dental A Team (05:22.253)

I want to say this in the right way. I felt like we had spent a lot of time building like a reputable brand and I felt like it was like selling out. I felt like it was like, you know, it's like we build like this, this elite brand and it's all about patient care and, and quality dentistry and all these things. Then it was like, but we're going to take a big check. And now we're just part of this other group of bunch of other offices. Sure. And

And so when Gen 4 had approached me, they sat me down and they basically were like, hey, this is what we've done in the endo space. This is what we did in the oral surgery space. This is what we did with small doctors in the ortho space. And they'd had this track record of forming groups within the specialty industries that were highly respected specialists in their industry.

And so, you know, they said, hey, we're looking to do the same thing with cosmetic dentistry and higher end family practices. And when they shared that vision with me and I started to look at it and then I reached out to a handful of my friends that were very, very well known cosmetic dentists, you know, probably 10 years my senior that are that have some of the most well known practices in the world. And and and I said, hey, you know,

What do you guys think? You know, is this something you want to be a part of? And when I saw them start to see that same vision that I had where they recognize like, hey, they're kind of in this interesting spot too now where what is their exit strategy? so there's been a ton of us that have joined Gen 4 and it's been a journey. mean, I would feel totally comfortable saying this out loud if the...

investors and the partners were in the room like, yeah, there's challenges. There's challenge anytime you're growing something new in an industry. You there hasn't really been a DSO out there to my knowledge that's that's been one of trying to do more higher end, higher quality. And I've, I've worked with a ton of them. And I actually think there are some amazing groups out there that they do excellent dentistry and do very good quality dentistry, you know, but

The Dental A Team (07:46.475)

A lot of them have started from the ground up, one or two offices, to bring together a bunch of seasoned offices. That's a tougher thing and hadn't been done at this level. So it's, yeah, we've had our own pains, but at the same time, like, it's been great. It's been great to kind of work through that together. I've been part of the group two years now and I'm happy. I really enjoy it. You know, they give me total freedom. I haven't had to change the way that I

practiced industry, you I do everything exactly the same. But you know, there's some other behind the scenes business stuff, you know, that I've had to adapt to. but no, no regrets, no regrets at all. And were they a DSO? And if you can share this great and if not, don't don't fill because I know every day is different. were they one where it was like they sold you stock in the business, they took part of it then they keep you on as an associate? Is that basically kind of because I know that's most of the structure of DSO is they'll buy you out.

pay you for it where you're at, you get stuck in the company typically, and then they continue to pay you as an associate doctor basically of whatever production. Is that how it worked for you with Gen 4? Or were there different nuances or different ways that they did it for you to keep it within what you wanted it to be? Yeah, the two main structures I've seen, it's like they're coming to buy out half and you stay half partner and then you continue to grow together or they buy you out entirely.

and you roll back in some of that money in stock and then you grow as a company. And I've seen both work. Gen four, they came in, they bought us out entirely. And then we rolled back in a percentage of that buyout into stock and the overall company. And I think for me, when I was looking at it, was like, whether they buy out 50 % or they buy out all, like either way, like I'm committed now. I'm not going anywhere. so.

I kind of felt like for me, was like, you know what, I'd rather be bought out. And now it's essentially, it's like, I just have ownership in a several hundred dollar, several hundred million dollar company as opposed to just like my own practice. So it's just kind of a different mindset and different way of looking at it. But yeah, that was the structure. And then I get paid a generous percentage of everything that I do.

The Dental A Team (10:12.971)

You know, it works. That's awesome. And I think, like you said, I feel like the DSO route is so brilliant for larger practices because like you said, who's going to come in and buy us at this eight, nine, $10 million practice. And that's not even on evaluation. That's just on what we're producing. And so you tack on the valuation, like who's really going to be able to come in and also where it's so specialized or you do things that, like, I remember I had a doctor who was looking to buy a practice and we looked at the production and I'm like, I would strongly advise not buying this practice. said,

70 % of the production is stuff you don't even do. I was like, so how are you going to make up that production amount that you're buying when you're not even a dentist that's doing that? And so for you guys, you really did get yourself into not a corner, but like you said, it's either we can sell to someone who can buy us now and continue to grow it, continue to work as long as we are, or our path is we just keep rolling this until we're ready to retire, which then at that point, probably your valuation's down, someone's gonna come buy it because it's less dollars for you, but you had a long-term.

And what's great about the DSO route that I do enjoy for practices like you is you have the option to work for pretty much as long as you want. Of course, there are structures that could change, right? Like you were bought by someone else, they could sell to someone, it could change the structure of how it is. So like that is a piece to it. But overall, I think the DSOs currently are playing with, let the dentist keep producing because they love to do what they do. Don't rock that world. And that tends to be the structure I'm seeing right now. So. And there's always a trade off. I would tell doctors like,

What you shouldn't do is feel like, well, everyone else is doing it. I just need to do it too. Like it should, you should be able to look at it on paper and be like, this just, this absolutely makes sense. Like it would be silly not to move forward to this because it just makes sense. The deals that I see that, you know, I've, I've seen a lot of people, you know, really get upside down and really get in a bind is where they, they just kind of like,

rolling their equity with another group because of this promise of something bigger, or they take a small payout now with this promise of this big thing later and not realizing that's not a guarantee. And in fact, a lot of these don't ever get to that point down the road. so it's just one of those things. You only should do it if you're cash flowing good and you're happy and your practice is going good and your team's happy. Absolutely, there's no reason to do it. I don't think, I really don't think so.

The Dental A Team (12:38.443)

you should only do it if you're at this position like where we were, it's like, okay, one of the main partners is retiring. We're kind of at a point now where this is as high as we're gonna be able to go with how we're doing now. And the only next logical step is to do this. Yeah. No, gosh, Brian, talk about a fun podcast. I enjoy when my podcast like tickle the brain and make me think harder and geek about all the things that don't get talked about. I mean, like you said, we went from.

partnerships to marriage to DSO buyouts and I just I appreciate you Sharing because I think so much of this is not discussed so many doctors feel like they're navigating it alone So many doctors don't know how to do a partnership somebody don't know The feelings that you shared today are normal and they're real and everyone feels them So talk about them and here's ways that you have had success So thanks for like I said last time we talked about smile virtual, which honestly you guys go check out smile virtual. I think it's incredible telehealth

Like it's amazing, Brian, I recommend you guys all the time for it. So definitely check out Smile Virtual for it. But Brian, thanks for, thanks for navigating all the pieces. Any last wrap ups you've got things, how can people connect with you? Last thoughts today as we wrap up, truly just enjoyed this really, I don't know, like I said, I love the soul filling conversations and that's what I feel like we had today. So thank you. No, you're welcome. And I feel the same way. And I think that's just so great about getting on here with you is

is that, you know, ultimately this is it's not for me. It's not for you. It's for those listening that have been listening to you for long time and trust what you're teaching. It's it's for those because there there are a lot of people that that do feel stuck from time to time. And I think these are the things that don't ever get talked about. And, you know, I'll come back. We'll do the case acceptance one. I think that's super important. But I think I think this is probably the right message for today. And I think the only thing that I would leave

the listeners with is just that like, like you have the ability to pivot. You have the ability today to like stop making decisions. Just decide it. Decide how you want to practice. Decide how you want things to look moving forward. And you also have the ability to go and partner with a coach, you know, and Kiera and her team do such an amazing job of like, of guiding doctors along that path and show them exactly how to do it. Like,

The Dental A Team (15:03.821)

follow somebody that's done it before or work with somebody that knows how to do it and just go and do it. And I think that's the one thing I've learned over the years is I've never once looked back and been like, man, I'm really glad I waited so long to finally make the decision to invest in myself. There's always regret of like I should have done it sooner. So just take that leap of faith. Thank you. Well, and that's a huge compliment. I appreciate you so much.

And really that's what we're here for is to guide them. I think it's hard to like, we have so much passion like you and I do to not want to share it with other people, to not want to give our guidance to people, to not want to, to help you navigate through these things from people who've been there, done that and done it successfully. So Brian, thank you for being someone today to share that successful guidance. And if people want to connect with you, how's the best way to chat, like I said, smile virtual, clean products, I think is like the coolest thing.

like your online courses, different pieces, how do people connect with you, Brian? Yeah, probably the best thing is probably just DrBrianHarris.com. So from that site, you can gain access to my social media, you can message me directly. But yeah, just www.DrBrianHarris.com or at Dr. Brian Harris on Instagram. But yeah, those are the easiest ways to find me and reach out anytime.

I'm happy to share with anybody that is stuck or is needing anything. I love it. Thank you. And for all of you listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#927: Navigating Burnout: “It’s Not A Dead End, It’s A Cul-de-sac”
11 Dec· Dental A Team Podcast
Dr. Brian Harris of Smile Virtual gets real and raw with Kiera. The topic: burnout, and how Dr. Harris navigated it to boost himself toward success. He talks about what that meant personally, professionally, as well as tackling the reality of finances and production with a practice partner, and more.

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:00.536)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am super pumped to welcome back one of our top guests that's been on the podcast, Dr. Brian Harris. I hope you guys caught his last podcast where we went into all things for Smile Virtual, how we can increase your practice by doing virtual consults. And today he's back to chat, case acceptance, and I'm going to geek out and ask him my own personal selfish questions, but Brian's incredible. Welcome back, Brian. How are you today? Thank you. It is great to be back. I loved the conversation we had last time and I feel like we started to

to get into some really cool topics and then we ran out of time. So this is great. I'm excited to be back for sure. I love someone who can geek dental with me for as long as we were to where we run out of time because we're just so in the thick of it. And so welcome back. I love it. Tell us though, for those who might have missed the last episode, kind of just give them a quick rundown of who you are, how you became the Brian Harris, how you're helping dentists across the nation. I love what you do. I think you do incredible work.

And we even have actually had, this is random. I have friends that have worked for you in Arizona that I just put the connection together last night. I was like, wait, Trista worked for you. And so it's kind of a fun time, but kind of for our audience, if they don't know you, give them a quick intro about you and what you do and how we even got here to then tee up our stage for today. Yeah, that's always scary when you have friends that have worked for somebody or worked for me because then you're like, shoot, they know like, they know the real me. So,

You know, I will I'll give you a background. You know, I feel like I've got, you know, a pretty common story in dentistry, but then also like a pretty interesting one, too. You know, I grew up around it. My dad was a dentist. I've got two brothers that are dentists. My father-in-law is a dentist. I mean, it's it's just kind of always been part of my life. Joined my dad's practice 2005. He was doing a ton of cosmetic dentistry at that time. And so

you know, naturally was able to mentor me and allow me to do a lot myself. And we have a, you know, just a great family cosmetic practice. And we built that into five different locations throughout Arizona. And then probably like 2016 was like the real pivot point for me because I was, you know, we were cruising along, we had the five locations, but I was burning out and

The Dental A Team (02:29.088)

And I kind of was just like, man, I just want to do what I love to do. And I don't necessarily want to be going to all these offices. I don't want to be working the hours that I was working. And so I had an experience with my wife kind of urging me to push and post more on social media and kind of show the world the type of dentistry that I do. And everything just kind of took off from there and started to build a brand and started to

to have patients flying in to see me. because of that, launched a software platform called Smile Virtual. talked about that last time and it's the top tele-industry platform now in our industry. And I still am seeing patients three long days a week and loving what I do with Smile Designs and probably about 70 % of all my patients fly in from out of state to see me in two visits.

That's my story. It's been pretty remarkable and I've been able to take the things that I've learned and I'm just passionate about sharing that with other doctors and helping them do the same in their own practices. I love it. Thank you for sharing that. And it was interesting because my husband and were talking last night. I told him, said, hey, tomorrow's podcast day. I'm really excited. We were chatting about your podcast. And my husband actually asked me an interesting question. He's like, Kiera, I think this would actually be a really good podcast topic. And I said,

I don't know the answer to it. So Brian, maybe you can actually help. Because as you were talking about your story and having the locations, I think there actually becomes this pivotal moment where we're on this path. And so my husband asked me, he said, what's the difference between settling, failing, and living in the moment? And I'm curious if you have any insights on that. I know I didn't prep you up for it, and I didn't even plan to talk about it with you. But I think you kind of hit that level, right? You could have kept growing, and you decided.

Like I'm burnt out, but I think so many of us it's like, well then am I settling and like gonna just scale back? Am I failing because I'm tired or am I like living in the moment or then also pivoting to what I really want? So do you have any insights on that? Like I said, I wasn't planning on it, but I didn't have quite the answers and I think it could be a really interesting combo to kind of kick us off today. Yeah, I love that question. I really love that question and I've never been asked it before. And so that's why when you asked it, I was like, huh.

The Dental A Team (04:50.446)

That's actually really interesting. I think, I think what happens is for me, at least the way I experienced it, it kind of, I experienced all three of those things at the same time. Like I felt like to some degree I was like, well, yeah, we have the five locations. Like I should be happy, know, I need to be successful doing what I love. But then also I kind of felt like I was, you know, so I felt like I was like, well,

am I settling because I don't get to do only the stuff I love? And then it kind of felt like failure because I felt like, you know, I should be happy, but I wasn't. So I kind of felt like I was failing at this game of happiness as a dentist. And then I think the third part of that is like recognizing that like, that's the sweet spot. Like that's where you want to be because I feel like that's where the magic happens when you get to this.

this point of like internal conflict of like, what's really going on here? Like that's like, when you make a move there, you know, if you make the right move, it's always going to be like the move that made a difference. know? It's interesting. And I'm curious, like, how did you reconcile through that? And like, how long does it take? Because I know, like I'm going through a very similar experience and like this summer, I just hit rock bottom and I'm like, but on paper, my life is like popping.

It's the most perfect and like people on the outside looking in are like, here, what are you talking about? My family is like, what are you talking about? But internally you have this guilt, you have this struggle. It's like, I'm so happy with the life I'm living, but I'm also like so stretched, so thin. And I'm also questioning like, am I really on the path that I want to be on? Or am I just on the path that kind of like fell into my lap? And maybe I'm, managing it rather than creating it. So like how long does, and I agree with you, it is the magic sweet spot, but it.

feels like it's the failure sweet spot. feels like it's the rock bottom. feels like it's the the ultimate failure of your life. I'm like, I'm, my life is so good that I'm so miserable. It's such like this like paradox of life. So how did you navigate through it? How long did it take you? Because it doesn't happen overnight. And I think so many people have this like

The Dental A Team (07:01.678)

misbelief that it's like, Brian woke up and was like, I know what I want to do. Versus it's like it takes some time. And maybe you did. Maybe I'm the one who just takes a long time to figure out what I want to do in life. But how was that for you? How did you navigate it? Yeah, I think what happens is, when you've been there a couple times, like to me, I see it now is like, that's just part of the process is part of growth. The first couple times I found myself in situations like that with different

companies that I started or things that I got involved in. It took me months, even years to make a decision. But now it happens all the time where, you know, I'll have this great idea and on paper, like it's like, this makes total sense. And then I start down that path and I'm like, ooh, this is a bad idea. And so now I've gotten really good at like, just, when I recognize that it's not a dead end, it's just a cul-de-sac. You just freaking turn around and go back the other way and,

and do something different. And so I think, I mean, you're going to have listeners, viewers that are at this point where they're like, I don't get it. Like I'm just getting started. don't even, I can't even get patients in the chair. Like I don't have that problem yet, but they will get to that point at some time. And so I think if you're there, then it's like, listen to this conversation, cause it's going to happen sometime. And then you're going to have a lot of people that I feel are there. And, and I think that the important thing is

stop making decisions, just decide. Just decide. If it's what you want to do and you're like, you know what, I'm ready for a change. A mentor of mine pushed me and as I was going back and forth with him of like, I want to do this, but I also only want to see small design cases. But I also don't want to make my dad and brother upset because they think I'm being selfish for not wanting to do hygiene exams anymore. I was going back and forth and he's like, dude, Brian.

He's like, for two days we've been talking, he's like, stop making decisions, just decide, are you gonna do it or not? He's like, if you're gonna do it, then just do it and then go and create it. But if you're not, then stop worrying about it and just get back to what you were doing before. How did you figure out, Brian, that you, that's so lovely, and I love that you brought up family dynamics and guilt and like, I don't want my spouse to think this about me, but it's like, people don't actually think those things. I think a lot of times we project it. And even if they do think that, like,

The Dental A Team (09:25.486)

At the end of day, it's your life and you're creating it and you're living it. How did you decide though? Cause I think there's a piece of you of like, you've got this serial entrepreneur in you. mean, we're going to talk clean products. We're going to talk a lot of the different things you've done. You cosmetic dentist, smile, virtual, clean products. Like you've got this serial entrepreneur within you. So you've got this like massive growth. You're building all these practices, but then you also love cosmetic dentistry. How did you navigate and decide like, what I really have my passion for is this? Because I think some people get like sloshy there and they get gray there. And it's like, it's.

under the surface of I think like layers and layers and layers of guilt or what I should be doing or maybe I don't know but I'm like I feel like people always have that core they do know how did you decide that that was your core and you wanted to do these these smile virtual designs and that's what you really wanted to do. Yeah, I think I think two things happen I think people they realize it's what they want to do but then they don't feel like you know they have these thoughts of doubt of like well

I'm never gonna have enough of those type of patients come in. I think that's a separate conversation. I think the conversation of like the first part that you mentioned of like, do you do that without feeling selfish? Especially within like a family dynamic. I think you just have to be vulnerable and really open and honest and speak to your partners. Speak to those in your life that it's going to affect and come up with a way where it works for everybody. know, it was, and I mean, rightfully so.

It does seem selfish to say like, hey, I am only going to do smile designs. I don't want to do hygiene exams anymore. You know, if I've got a dad and a brother who are my partners that are like, well, that's not fair. know, cool. We don't want to do them either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it depends. Every practice different sometimes like, that's, that's how you fill your schedule. But other times, like it is a burden. And so being able to go to them and say, okay, here's my thought. If I do this.

I know it's going to increase my personal production, know, and we're partners, you know, all three of us are partners in this. And so in the end, what's going to happen is like, I'm willing to push hard. I'm willing to work hard. And at the time I think I was personally producing, I think my monthly average is about 450,000 a month, just myself, you know, doing smile design cases. And so I was able to show them like, if I do this,

The Dental A Team (11:49.08)

there's gonna be significant amount more money going into practice that we can all share. And the trade off is that I'm not gonna have to do the exams and I'm gonna be able to practice kind of over here separate from the practice, but it's gonna put more stress on you guys, but ultimately we'll all win financially because we're partners. And that's exactly what happened. So. Yeah, no, and I think that's incredible because I also think as society and as doctors and as partners and as people,

I think we often think what's fair is equal. And that's actually not true. Like it doesn't have to be like just because you can produce more doesn't mean that we have to be seeing all the hygiene exams. And I think when we can all step back and say, what's in the betterment of the business, which is ultimately in the betterment of all of us. And then how can we do that? And I know for even like some partnerships, yeah, it does make sense financially for you to do it, but the stress of the hygiene exams is going to be a piece for us.

Well, great, let's find a middle ground. Maybe I take pick up hygiene exams one day out of the week, but I do smile design cases for the rest of the week until we realize like this is really better or like let's bring on an associate that does hygiene exams. Where it's like there's so many different crayons in our crayon box. Like let's not forget that we don't just have black and white. We actually have all the myriad of colors and finding the solution. I think it's important. So thanks for like going down that rabbit hole with me a little bit. I was just so curious. I'm like, it seems like he's got it like pretty much figured out. And I also really loved and I hope people heard like

I think the more we can practice this skill of, like, I remember I was at a conference this summer and the speaker was saying, he's like, why, why did you ever think that you have just one why or one purpose in this life? He's like, why can't you think that you might have multiple purposes and multiple whys throughout your lifetime? And it was just like, aha moment. Cause I was like, find your why. I'm like, what if there's a few whys throughout like the chapters of our life. And so I really loved how it sounds like you've just built that mental resilience of.

try this path and if we get to the end, it's just a cul-de-sac and we redirect and come back rather than it being like, I'm at the bottom, I'm at the ultimate failure. No, we're just like redirecting and figuring out exactly where we're going. And I think like mountain climbs, you look at it, it's not just a straight uphill climb. It's literally like there's dips and ups and dips and ups, but that's actually how we get to the top, not just in one like direct line. So I really, really loved it. Any last thoughts you've got on that before I pivot into case acceptance and clean products?

The Dental A Team (14:06.348)

No, the only other thing that I thought of when when I was talking is just what I don't think it's talked about enough is partnerships and especially family partnerships, but just partnerships in general. I mean, you hear just horror stories of how how things end and and the reality is like working with family or working with partners where you're really close like it's it can be a beautiful thing, but it's it's just like a marriage to like you.

you will have your times where, you know, there's frustration, there's, you know, anger, there may be some tears, you have to be able to just talk through things and hear both sides and come up with a solution that's fair. I think when I see things fall apart, there's all this tension, but nobody's willing to talk about it. And I think that's where problems happen.

So let's dig a little deeper on partnerships because you actually have family partnerships and then you have other business partnerships. What do you find are some of the top things to make partnerships successful? Because there is a phrase that I have heard that I think is very ironic and they say, partnerships sink ships. But then I also hear other people where partnerships can actually exponentially grow the ship as well. So what are some of the things you've done from family partnerships to business partnerships?

that you feel have set that up because I don't think you could do all the things you do without strong partnerships. Maybe you could. I don't know. Maybe you're Superman and I don't know it. But I feel like so much of your success is actually on leveraging and being connected to really great partners. I could be wrong. But what do you find within that partnership world that has helped you be successful in partnerships and not sinking the ships? I think you have to find partners that, you know, are aligned in the same vision. But I also think you

you have to go into it with a strong understanding that it may end. And if it does, how do you both be able to walk away and be at peace with everything? I think the struggle I've found for myself in some partnerships in the past is like for me, and it's just more my personality, like I'm ready to go. Like I'm up at four every day. I leave my house by like,

The Dental A Team (16:27.854)

between 431 and 432, depends on how long it takes me to feed the dogs. And I'm at the office, I've got a little bit of a commute, but I'm there at 510. And then I work until I start seeing patients at seven, and I don't take a lunch, and I work through the end of the day. On Thursdays, I work nonstop on the businesses. But I recognize now, but that's not normal. And it's not necessarily healthy. For most people, it's not.

healthy thing. It's just how I operate best. And I would go into partnerships sometimes expecting that like, we're both going to just be working this hard and growing this thing. And my brother Scott's like a perfect example of this. Like, he is very balanced. And he is like, he's going to go to the gym. And he's going to leave right on time so he could be home be with the family. And it and, you know, so it's it's like for him.

He's not going to waver. He's not going to bend on those things because, you know, those, you know, structure for him and his personality is extremely important. And so it's just understanding those things and then creating things within the partnership around that that just work. So again, communication, but then also don't just go form partnerships to form partnerships. You know, no, I was going to say, I think sometimes you're like, well, I have this idea.

I'll partner with somebody and we'll go and do it. I think you can actually run much faster alone. And then when you get to a point where it's time to bring in like a good strategic partner, you know, then then really think about who that who that person is. So on that, I'm curious, we're going to dig into this. This is so juicy, because people don't talk about it. So Brian, thank you for like tipping into the iceberg with me that I think is so just relevant. What's your take on? Do you go 5050?

And then as a stronger producer, how do you make that to where you as a stronger producer actually don't become resentful to say people who like your brother Scott are leaving on time? Like how do you, because I think that the resentment is the underlying tones. Logically, I can understand that like I'm this type of wiring. My brother's this type of wiring, but how do you not like allow that underlying tension? Do you set it up to where you're paid more as a higher producer? Because I know that there's some partnerships where the producer, I think

The Dental A Team (18:52.27)

I don't know. I'm going to give air quotes. think sometimes being the larger producer sometimes feels like the easier person in the partnership, even though like I've got air quotes around that because the other partner usually is the one picking up the hygiene exams. They're doing the minimal dentistry, but they're benefiting from the higher producer. And the higher producer has all the stress of you've got to freaking produce as well to like carry this ship as well. Like how do you navigate and not get resentment? Should it be 50 50? Should it be broken down on like

how much you're producing so that way you keep your drivers incentivized. Like what are your thoughts around how to set that up? Obviously, this is what's worked for you. People have to figure out what works for them. But any tips that you have on that or insights from all the partnerships you've done? Yeah, I'll just share what's worked for my brother Scott and I and hopefully he's cool with me sharing this. And we need to understand about Scott is like he's

He's an amazing cosmetic dentist. Like his attention to detail is like next level. And that's not saying that mine is not. It's just that, you know, from like a comfort level and speed and like flow, what works for me really works for me. It works for him, really works for him. But yeah, like let's say, let's say in a certain scenario, you know, you get to the end of the month and you're 50, 50 partners, but let's say, you know, I'm just going to use rough numbers just to keep it simple.

Let's say one partner produces $100,000 and the other one produces $200,000 and you're both paid on a percentage of what you do. let's just call it like 35%. Well, what happens is over here, after I get paid my 35%, Scott gets paid his 35%. Like that's fair because we're getting a percentage of what we produce. But a lot of times in this higher percentage area of production, there's more pure profit going to the practice.

Right. so, but technically you split all the profit 50-50. Right. And so what can happen sometimes is you get to a scenario where like you're like, wait, for me to move the needle more and to make more money, I've got to produce significantly more. Right. And so what Scott and I ended up doing is like, we would just say like, hey, this is what it is. We each get paid our 35%. We split whatever comes in, but that we stop.

The Dental A Team (21:14.734)

like two times a year, once before the summer, once before the end of the year, look at all the numbers and say like, okay, before we do this actual split, let's look at it. Do feel it's fair? You know, are you good with how things are going? He would say his piece, I would say mine. And if we looked at the numbers and it was like, man, I produced quite a bit more the last six months, then we take whatever that money was there to split that month and be like, well, hey, how do you feel about 70 30 or a feel about 60 40? And, and we would do things

that way. And I know that doesn't work for everybody. But I think I think just being open, it's like you have you have the rules of like how the partnership set up. But then you also have the ability to be able to say like, Hey, do we need to adjust a couple times a year? And would this feel more fair just so you don't get to a place where you're resentful? And you said oftentimes, the easier partner is to be the higher producer. Yeah.

I totally agree with that. But then I also feel like sometimes, you know, the the partner doctor, you know, that's not a fun place to be in either, because, you know, they're they're always feeling like, you know, they're always feeling like maybe there could be some resentment there, they're always feeling like, you know, maybe things potentially aren't fair. I mean, it's it's a delicate, it's a delicate situation. But I think you

You treat the business like a business. I guess that's the one thing that I would say is treat it like a business. Try to take the emotion out and say, okay, what's really like the fairest way to do this? And that will resolve a lot of the issues. Yeah. And I think like props to you and Scott. Scott, I know you're not on this, but thank you. Like, hopefully you listen to this. I also think that there's different value systems, right? Like hearing just you and Scott, I don't know Scott, I'm not interviewing Scott, I'm not podcasting with him. But to me, sounds like Scott's big thing is like his balance of his life.

Like he wants to be with the kids. He wants to work out. He wants to have like, loves doing dentistry. but like that to me is what I would think if I was looking at a value chart, that would be it. And Brian, not to say that your family is not important. Brian's family. That's not what we're saying here. Okay. We're just saying Brian's wired to your, a race horse. You want to go, you want to drive like that keeps you so inspired. And when you're fulfilled that way, you actually show up better for your family. You show up better for yourself. I can relate to that because I'm very much wired that way. And I always feel like a little bit of a jerk, like

The Dental A Team (23:39.32)

Jay, I promise I love you. But it's like there's two different value systems running too. And so I think when partners can realize that, like, don't chop off Brian as this racehorse who wants to produce and wants to be there early and wants to go at 4.30 in the morning. Don't cut that to make the partnership fair. Like let Brian be himself, let Scott be himself. And then like you said, I do think the evaluation throughout the year is smart because a racehorse like yourself, Brian,

Like it is fun on the production. is fun to like hit the numbers. fun to see what you can produce. It's fun to challenge yourself. Like that's, think probably like growth and that drive for you. And so reward that person, give them like extra production, like rock on, keep running, keep doing it. And I'm going to keep my awesome balanced life over here. And I can see that. But I also think like kudos to Scott. I think that takes a lot of humility on his part too, to see that, because I think so many partners potentially on Scott's side can actually feel like less than.

and ego can creep in and say, well, no, I'm doing all these other things. We're fair. We're equal. So like, what do do when that creeps in of ego? Maybe Scott's just like an amazing human. I'm sure there's been times though. How do you guys navigate that conversation, Brian, because I've heard it in so many partnerships that I can't imagine you guys are immune to it forever. Maybe it was just earlier on too. Yeah, I think part of it is

You know, I remember we, I run a mastermind and a group of doctors that I started about six years ago and it's called the Elite Academy. And when we meet together, we'll share numbers, we'll share production numbers. I think...

Scott had always felt a certain way about it until we're in this room and everyone's sharing their numbers. And he's like, wait, I actually am a super high producer. He's like, wait, I'm producing $180,000 a month just himself. And yet maybe in our partnership, it can feel a certain way just because of how I work or how I do things. But the reality is he's super successful.

The Dental A Team (25:50.382)

cosmetic dentist and and is producing a really high level. So I think it's it's important to understand that like you got to step out of it sometimes and look at like the big picture and be like, okay, maybe this isn't what it seems like. But then also like, you know, it does happen sometimes where you have a partner that's just just cool cruising kind of at the bare minimum and and and I think you have to respect that you either change the partnership you get out of it or

Like you respect that and you come up with a better solution that's going to to work for that partnership. have, I have a close friend that got stuck in one of the situations where he was kind of essentially feeding the other two partners and they were on cruise control. It started to create a lot of resentment because he's wanting to run fast over here. They're like, Hey, we're comfortable here. Part of the reason they're comfortable is because all this productions, you know,

going to them and paying the bills. And so that that's a type of situation where he struggled forever to get out of that and finally went to him and said like, Hey, I think it's time that we dissolve the partnership. And at the end of the day, I think they feel like it's the best move to they don't want to be living in that kind of stress either. So just communication, just talk about it. And I think like that feels scary. It feels scary to have those conversations. It feels scary to say that I had a very similar I remember working with a partnership and

the doctor that was a high producer was so frustrated because the other doctor was just not even like, not even trying to support, not looking for ways, like super comfortable. Like I got this great producer, keep producing for me. I'm gonna sit over here and have my great life. But there, built up so much resentment between the two that it was irreparable. And so really, like you said, I think having those conversations and when things frustrate you from the get go or like, I think we think we're being the bigger person, I think it's cool.

just let it like roll over. But I'm like, when you let it roll over so often, I see it with so many partnerships, I see it in marriages of doctors that are married and they're working in the practices and I'm sure you do too. It's, I think it's we work on it when it's like a tiny sliver rather than when it's a massive boulder between the two. Because then you can't fix it. But like a little sliver, we can like pluck that out and we can take care of it we can repair that and we can move on. But so many times I think it's we gloss over, we don't work on it, we don't talk about it.

The Dental A Team (28:18.124)

and talking about it in a way where we actually come to a resolution, not a caving or giving in that then later builds resentment. So kudos to you guys, Brian. think great job, Scott. Great job, Brian. And I love what you said, Brian. And I'm the same way I always say, plan the divorce before you get married. How will we split this so that way all parties know? I think education on that is very powerful to know how we're going to end this if we ever end it. And then we write it and we do it until it no longer serves, but also.

Seeing the value that other partners bring, even if you're the high producer, think like kudos to you Brian on that. I think that that's a really magical thing because they do a lot of work that you're not doing. Like you're not doing hygiene exams. so seeing that that value, even though it's not dollar per dollar production, it does allow you to produce exponentially more. And without that, now you'd probably be okay. You probably don't need it as much, but to get you to where you are, they had to pave the way for you as well too. I think that there's, gosh, like you're right. There's just so many dynamics on it. So kudos to

But it's also a beautiful thing too. mean, if you look at, I mean, I've been married 24 years now. And if you look at, if you look at like relationships and partnerships, like you, you, you, least in my own relationship, I start to see like for, for so long, it was like, man, I wish she could be like this, or she would think, wish she could be more like this. And then you start to realize like, Hey, part of what makes this work is that we are very different. And part of what makes it work is like, you know,

we have different things to bring to the relationship. I think partnerships, it's the same thing, but sometimes we look at it as like, well, no, I'm doing this, they should be doing this too. Could you imagine what a marriage would be like if you were the younger or if you were the lower producer and you just felt like every day, your spouse was looking down on you and all the things that you're not doing right and how you need to be better and how you need to show more love. mean, it would just feel

it would feel super empty, but that's it's the same type of feelings, you know, and so it's being able to be like, okay, wait, okay, here's our here's our each of our strengths, like, let's play off these and let's create a great relationship. So yeah, no, and I'm so glad you brought that up. Because I remember for a long time, my husband is just such a fun human. And he like his his phrase lately has been like, gosh, like, why is life so good? And he's just like, obsessed with living in the moment and obsessed with being so happy. And I he reminds me

The Dental A Team (30:46.488)

to stop and smell the freaking roses of like this beautiful rose garden we've built rather than be like, rose garden done. We now need a forest. Like he's so good at reminding me of that. And for probably like the first five years of marriage, we've just hit our 13 years, so not the 24. But I remember like at year five, six, I thought, gosh, like I probably should have married someone different. Like I probably should have married someone who's a stronger driver with me. Someone who like challenges me harder. Neither is wild epiphany of

man, if I would have married that person, I don't think I could have blossomed to the level that I did because I would have been competing with someone. I wouldn't have had someone who's there like supporting me day in day out. Jason will wake up early with me in the morning. I'm sure you do it too, Brian. Like we just rattle off all of our brilliant ideas. Our poor spouses like love them because we just like hit them with all these great ideas and they just sit there and they love us and they encourage us and they inspire us. And I just thought there is so much beauty in who Jason is.

being complimentary to me rather than being the same as me. And it took a long time for me to realize that compliments actually so beautiful. And that's what makes the masterpiece rather than being the exact same color. And I think that it's well said. And with partnerships, just think like it takes humility and it takes like effort and it takes intentionality on partnerships to see what they're doing right rather than focusing on what's wrong, because what they're doing right and good and great is as available as what they're not doing and what they're failing at.

Both are available to us every single day. It's just which one are we choosing to look at more? And that's what creates our vision from my perspective. Yeah. For those just joining, welcome to the successful marriage podcast. We're here today. We'll dive into all things relationships. it's, it's, listen, it's beautiful. And, and I think some of it just comes with time and maturity and realizing like, I think the more time has gone on,

the more I realized like a lot of times like, and maybe I am the problem in both professional and personal relationships. And when you start to realize like, okay, you're way more in control than you think you are. So no, that was good. I'm glad we went into all that. I think it's important. You and me both. And I know we had come into the podcast thinking we were going to talk about something and the reality is we went in different route, but that's how podcasts work. so

The Dental A Team (33:07.756)

And I'm glad we did because I do agree with you. Partnerships are not discussed a lot. And I think people jump into partnerships and they're so excited about them. And I think you and I have a lot of years of experience personally. I've been in several partnerships myself in business and I've been burned a lot. I've had some very great successes a lot. I think you probably can relate. But the reality is I think so much success can come from partnerships. So just to clarify, do you believe in 50-50 partnerships? So pretend you're a solo doctor. You don't have family.

Are you a 50-50 proponent? Are you like a 30-70 proponent? Are you a small in this practice? And then we go 50-50 in the next practice. What's kind of your like, your flavors on partnerships just as a general consensus, which I understand will asterisked across. Every marriage looks different. Every relationship looks different. Every partnership looks different. There's different reasons for different pieces. But if you're an owner doctor, because I think so many owner doctors, Brian, you hear this, I hear this. I built this freaking practice and now just going to give away 50%.

and the newer doctors like, yeah, I'm not going to be like less than you. So like, how do you navigate that? What are your thoughts on that? Since we've decided to elect to partnerships today, partnerships and marriages, whatever we want to talk about. No, it's great. Let's do it. When, when I first bought into my dad's practice, we sat down with a consultant and the way they looked at it, they're like, Hey, if we're going to do this, we have it valued. And whatever that top value is, Brian, like that's what you're going to pay into the partnership.

Like you will be 50-50 partner, but you're going to buy in what the practice is worth now. And I think that's absolutely how it should be handled. I think you treat it like a business. When my dad retired a couple of years ago. So then at that point, then when it was time for Scott to buy in, we had the practice evaluated at top dollar and then Scott bought in one third of that. How long has Scott been working? Just as clarity. Cause a lot of doctors get angry with this too, cause they feel like they've worked. They've

added to the value of the practice and they don't want to buy their equity that they've done. So Scott's been out of school two years less than I have. So he graduated in 2007, but he had his own practice. One of the five offices was his and then he bought in. We ended up selling off the four offices, kept our flagship office. He bought in as one third partner on that. So he was partners on the rest. But as far as our main practice in Phoenix, he bought in and paid

The Dental A Team (35:33.486)

what one third was worth. And then when my dad retired, like we both came in and we bought out my dad's one third for what it was worth. Now at the time, you could say like, I mean, it was like eight and a half million dollar practice. And so you could say of that, probably 45 % of that on an annual basis was maybe 40 % was coming just from my production. So like I could have

And I'm not going to lie. I started to go there. I started to be like, wait, I'm to pay top dollar. But essentially what I'm paying for is what I've. Yes. What I myself. Yeah. And like what I've been building. Yeah. And so it's like, well, yeah, over the last several years, like, you know, I've been producing, you know, three, $4 million a year myself for last several years. So that's why now we're at this place where the practice is worth eight and a half. Exactly. And, and so it's like, well, is it fair that I then go in and pay?

top dollar, even though a lot of that's coming from me. And I think the answer to that is absolutely it's fair. It's fair because, you know, my dad started in 79, you know, and we bought in along the way. And the fair thing to do is like treat it like a business. And and then there's then there's no regrets. And so, you know, it can seem it can seem unfair from the owner or the senior doctor standpoint.

But the last thing you want is a partner that's not motivated or that's resentful. I think it's okay to acknowledge those things, to say like, hey, here's what I'm feeling and here's why. And here's what I spent a lot of time building. And I just need you to know that so you know like what I'm going through and maybe this isn't, it's not easy for me. But then the last thing I'll say is the consultant back in 2008 when I first bought into the practice is like, at the end of the day, both of you should feel like you're getting screwed.

And he's like, that's, you know, like you've got a good deal. And that's exactly what happened. I felt like I was paying more than I should have for my half of my dad's practice. And my dad was like, well, I got screwed. Like I should have got more. And, and that's where we knew we were like at a good place. Yeah. No, that's actually really good because I hear so many doctors say this, where I even have a partnership right now that we're working through and the, the doctor buying in, they have actually two locations and the doctor buying in right now, like,

The Dental A Team (37:58.365)

doesn't like it's really hard for them to see for the second location to pay for it in two years after they've been working for it. And so I'm actually really happy to hear from you because I don't know what that feels like. I can buy in as a consultant. I can buy in as a team member. I can buy in on all those different levels. I can help close the cases. I can help grow the practice. Like the systems we bring in are exponentially high, but I'm not a producer. And I think the producer piece is the hard piece because you're like, I literally have grown this and now I'm going to buy into that. How did you work through that Brian? Because

so many doctors think it's more fair of like, no, no, no, let's get evaluation today. And then in two years, I'll pay for it, or whatnot, or like we take out my production. But like, how did you and your dad reconcile that? Because I look at it, I'm like, yeah, but your dad had a practice and without your dad, you would never have had this opportunity to do it. You can argue with me and say, I could have gone and done on my own. And I always say, then go do it. You're clearly buying in for this. How did you reconcile that? Because I think your space is actually a really hard space to come to.

when you're actually buying your own production in that practice, because you are, that's what the true fair value of that business is.

Yeah, so we've actually kind of technically done it both ways. So the first time when I bought in, it was like, okay, this is something we're to want to do, but to do it right and to get financing in place, let's scale up. And this is going to happen. You know, we'll sign documents in like six months. But what we're going to do is we're going to value the practice now. And, know, so that Dr. Harris, you're motivated to, you know,

Dr. Brian Harris, you're motivated to grow and still build this practice, but you're going to pay for what the fees are now. And every month, we're going to set aside some of that cash instead of paying you on a percentage of production. So let's say you're getting paid 35%, then you'd say, for the next six months, you're actually going to get paid 40%, but 5 % of that will be held back and we'll go towards paying you part of the practice.

The Dental A Team (40:01.085)

I think there's ways that you can do it to where the doctor buying in, especially if it's like, this is going to be in two years. You can do a hold back on profits and say, yes, let's do it in two years. Let's value it then. But instead of 35%, let's pay you 40%. You're only going to take 35, but we're going to put 5 % over here. And that's going to grow. And that can be used as your down payment. So it's essentially like the doctor's not.

just working their butt off for nothing. They're working towards buying the practice and that extra money is going towards that purchase price. Yeah. And I think you have a really good long vision game. You knew this is where you wanted to be. You knew it was a great place for you. It was with your family. It was something long term. I think you buying in, you had to have a longer term vision for it of seeing, yesterday, like you said, I agree. I had a mentor this summer tell me, they're like,

you should always feel like you're being screwed. Both parties need to feel like they're being screwed and it's the perfect deal. Cause if one party feels like they walked out of there like high on the cloud, then it's not the right deal. and like go back to the drawing board until you both feel that way. So I think though kudos to you to have that long-term vision. because I think a lot of people can't see that and it's like, no, no, no, it's so good. Like it might sting today, but just think about it eight years down the line. I mean, what you bought it in 2008 and now we're 2024.

That's a pretty long-term vision. Your dad's not in the practice. sounds like your brother's there now. And you guys are now building this to where is today. That's incredible. And Dental A Team listeners, I cannot wait for you to hear Brian and I finish this conversation. Today we talked about partnerships and all the different pieces. And tomorrow we are actually going to cover how to have a successful practice.

after you buy in. So get ready, I cannot wait for you guys. We broke this one up into two parts because I think it's that important for you. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#926: Update Your Ops Manual Without Breaking a Sweat
10 Dec· Dental A Team Podcast
Tiff and Dana discuss updating your operations manual in a way that doesn’t completely stress you out. They dive into details about each of the following steps:

Establish an ops manual point person

Schedule regular updates

Delegate sections

Set due dates

Just because it’s a big deal doesn’t mean the process can’t be fun and effective.

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:01.615)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners I am so excited to be here with you again on this beautiful day. I have Ms. Dana here in the house with me. That literally feels like she's in my house. I wish she were here, but we are houses apart. Dana, how are you today?

Dana (00:18.36)

Damn pretty good, how about you?

The Dental A Team (00:20.703)

Good, good. We are over here at the time of recording this just getting prepped for the holiday season. Like we're well into it at this point. I feel like holidays have began and parties and gosh, I feel like everything, so many things are going on and I only have one kid. I see this all the time. Dana's got a slew of children over there in her household and her husband and all of these things and Dana, you have just been running around like crazy. You went to a...

a recent event where we were very excited for you. Tell us how that went and we did you did was it PBR the bull riding? How did the kids how much do the kids love that?

Dana (01:00.131)

Yeah.

Well, they loved it. It's something about too, I think of bull riding, right? The goal is to say it on eight seconds, right? So my kids can all pay attention for eight seconds, even the littlest one. So it's something that they will like, we'll all enjoy it. They all pay attention the whole way through. Sometimes it requires snacks for the littlest one, but it was great.

The Dental A Team (01:11.591)

Yes!

That's fair.

The Dental A Team (01:22.959)

I love that. That is a very good point. I feel like we all need to remember that because I don't know how much better our attention spans really get. I know they say like for anything that you post on social media or for for you guys for doing marketing engagement, things should be able to grab someone's attention and hold it within that first like three to five seconds of looking at something. And so I just don't know that our attention spans have gotten any better than that eight second, you know, time frame. So I think the PBR is for everyone.

I think that is such a good point of view. I know when we went before my sister and I had gone and I was like, holy cow, they were only up there for like three, four or five seconds. I'm like, it felt though like a long time watching it. I'm like on the back of this crazy animal. Like this is this feels like a long time. So kind of plays into that too, where I know I have practices that

I'll work with and I'm like, you know, you've got to be on time. You to your patients back on time. Like if they're here 20 minutes early and you're taking them back on time, if you haven't notified them they were here early or kept them engaged while they were here, they feel as though you're late. And so if they've been here even five minutes earlier on time and you're five minutes behind, it makes such a difference. And sometimes I'll have...

practices where we're just so heavily focused on that patient interaction, that patient experience that I will make them do wall sits. They'll be like, yeah, whatever, Tim, you're crazy. And I'm like, cool, let's do this. We're going to do some wall sits. And I don't know if anybody's done a wall sit recently. They are painful.

that really puts into perspective how long a minute is. think normally we get to like 25 seconds and people start dropping out. It's a difficult one. So I love that you said that, Dina. That was such a good perspective to add there. PBR is so much fun and it's just the time of the year where we're just like prepping for everything and having so much fun with our families and our friends. And we have our holiday party for Dental A Team coming up, our virtual party. And it's just such a time of year to really

The Dental A Team (03:24.851)

look back on all of the things that we've accomplished and we've done so far. I know for me, I've been looking at okay, what did what did I set out to accomplish? What did I actually accomplish? And what did I miss along the way? And a lot of those pieces, I think we miss those goals along the way, because we really didn't have a good plan. I know for me, I miss personal goals or work goals constantly, because I just didn't have enough plans set in motion. I didn't have enough

trajectory and I didn't have enough laid out of responsibilities and like really how I was going to accomplish that thing. And today talking about Dana, I pulled you in always for operations manual, but really looking at how we can update the operations manual next year. And when we were prepping for this today, you mentioned really splitting it out and making sure that things are broken apart. And I think that is a huge space that we miss.

on the operations manual build out. I have practices, I just talked about practice last week that was like, I don't know, Tip, how do we do this? And we go listen, anybody can do it. You can do it in three months, you can take a year to do it. Anybody can do it in any amount of time as long as there's a plan set in place to get it done. And that plan has to be set in place before the day that you're gonna go start it so that you can see that progress. So taking time out of your day now.

to prep and plan for what it might look like to either create from scratch or template. We have our templates, your operations manual if you don't have one or getting it updated for next year. And Dana, you work with practices a lot. I you've actually done operations manual intensives and things like that. You work specifically with practices to build out their operations manual. whether again, we're building it out or we're updating it, what do you see as some of the key points that

need to be hit on in order to be successful in the build out and to really feel like gosh this is done for now because it's a work in progress it's always in motion so it's done for now what do you think are some really great tips that they could take away to really get that going for next year?

Dana (05:35.584)

Yeah, and I like what you said, first of all, planning and preparing for it because it is a massive project. So one, if you haven't started it or you don't have one, it is a massive project. making sure that you have somebody, you'll utilize your full team to build it, but you're gonna want someone there that is kind of your accountability person or who is spearheading it. So they're setting due dates, they're checking in on team members, they're making sure that...

Progress is staying on track or adjusting if we get off track. And they're making sure that time is set aside each week or each month, however you're dividing it. So I think first of all, have your person who's going to kind of spearheaded or they're going to be responsible for it. And then because it is such a big...

The Dental A Team (06:03.065)

Uh-huh.

Dana (06:18.602)

document or a big project, it is also like a living and breathing document. So we have to update it as things change in a practice because what works for us today may not always work for us and get us the results that we're getting from it today. So also when it comes to updating, planning your updating and who is ultimately responsible for making sure it happens.

The Dental A Team (06:39.585)

Yeah, I love that. And that's that space, you guys, that we talk about all the time of that responsibility and practices, owners and doctors and leaders are constantly saying like, gosh, Tiff, Dana, like, how do I hold my team accountable? I don't know how to hold accountability. And I think that's the key to the accountability. The reason we struggle holding people accountable is because we don't actually know what we're holding them accountable to. We're holding them accountable to like some phantom thing that we said was going to get done. But if there's not a person,

tied to that thing. There's not a date, there's not a timeline, there's not actionable pieces. It's really hard to feel confident and comfortable in holding someone accountable to it. So if you want to get an operations manual done or updated or what have you, maybe your office manager is responsible for ensuring that it gets done. Now that does not mean that he or she has to do the manual. It means that they need to help parse it out.

and they need to help find more responsibilities, delegate out what needs to be done within it, and then they're tracking it they're making sure that it's actually getting done and that those deadlines are being met. And when they're not met, we're revamping and we're saying, okay, fantastic, how do we get back on track? What needs to happen to get us back on track for this? So I think Dana, that's a huge piece of what we miss just in general with a lot of pieces. I know I was just in a practice not too long ago, a few weeks ago.

And I was like, great, fantastic. Like, who's responsible for what? And then he said, No, my front office, they don't like that. They like to just like everybody does everything. And I was like, cool, I want everyone to know how to do everything hands down. If you work in the front office, I want you to know how to do it all. But when I don't have confirmations done, who do I go to? He's like, well, it's like whoever can get to it.

So then what doesn't actually happen? Confirmations, right? So if we don't have someone, if I don't know that it's specifically my job, I don't know to prioritize that because I've got other things that are coming in. So when we have specific items, whether it's a daily to do, whether it's this operations manual, getting these updates done, if I'm not specifically responsible for something, when other things come into my day, it's really difficult for me to say what's more important.

The Dental A Team (08:52.631)

Where does my time need to go? What should I be doing first, second, third? It's difficult for me to prioritize my to-dos, let alone my time. And one of the biggest complaints I get from leaders and from doctors is...

a waste of time. They don't know how to prioritize their day. They don't know how to time block in their own schedule. We're trying to learn time blocking in our schedule, but my manager can't time block their schedule. Well, they can't time block their schedule because they don't know what the priorities are. When nothing is a priority, right? When everything is a priority, nothing is a priority. So because everything has now become a priority, because we've got a million things to do, we're just like picking the things that are the easiest, the things we can see the path on.

I know I talked last week with an office about procrastination, right? And procrastination is really just things you put off to the last minute because you don't actually feel confident in carrying it through. Studies have shown that it's either missing information or you just, you truly just don't feel confident. You're like, I think I have all the pieces, but I don't know how to do this. It's not easy. And so we push it off to the end, which I think Dana is a huge piece of that operations manual.

The operations manual gets pushed off to the end because we don't actually have a clear picture of how to complete it. We don't know what done looks like. We don't know how to get there. And it's this huge undertaking that everybody's like, cool, go write your protocol. So it's like, what? I have like 30,000 things I do in a day. How am I supposed to write all that down? So I love that you said really someone responsible. And so when it comes to updates data, you're saying the same thing, like someone is responsible.

And then how do you suggest that that person really delegates out those pieces that need to be done?

Dana (10:37.004)

Yeah, and I think first of all, I do usually recommend, go through the whole thing yearly and look for updates. So if you're looking for a cadence for this yearly, and I think this is a great time as we're planning and prepping for next year, if you haven't done it for this year, add it to your goals for next year, get it on the calendar. And then with that,

The Dental A Team (10:42.765)

Yeah.

Dana (10:56.962)

having that person utilize your team, right? You can assign one person to go through each section. You can divide and conquer and say, okay, you you're gonna review and make sure all setups are correct. You're gonna review and make sure, you know, all of our lab tracking and all of that is correct. And you can break it up that way. But basically assign team members to a section of the operations manual and kind of go through it in my checklist is.

Do we still do that thing? Do we have, is there a protocol in there and is that thing updated? Do we still do it that way? And if it is updated, great. If it isn't, then if you're the one to review it, you're the one to being responsible to update it. So usually just kind of setting that standard, break it up amongst the team. A lot of times it'll be the team leads that do it or.

The Dental A Team (11:40.568)

Yeah.

Dana (11:48.674)

you know, just somebody who you know has the capacity to do it at that time. And then just setting the standard that if you review it and it needs updated, you're also the one to update it. And then again, you can set due dates for those things. So, you know, hand me three updates each week, every Friday, until all of our updates are done or all updates done by an assign a date there. And then two, besides just yearly, right?

Because we've taken time to get everything in writing and we've written all of these protocols, oftentimes once you have that project done, setting the standard that when we update anything, we are also updating the written version of it as well so that when you get to this year mark and you're going to do your updates, it isn't so cumbersome because you have along the way when you've updated things or added things, made sure to get those pieces in writing throughout the year.

The Dental A Team (12:30.639)

Mm-hmm.

The Dental A Team (12:45.121)

Yeah, I love that idea. think that's brilliant. And one piece you talked about there was really saying like this number done by every Friday. I know in my in my work, when we're doing projects and content creation and things for Dental A Team, something that really helps me so this could be for doctors and team members like alike, something that really helps me is okay, I've got to have three updates, five updates done by Friday. So which ones am I going to update? So if I have a list,

So you guys within the operations manual templates have.

really that table of contents, right? So I would go through the table of contents myself if I knew that was my goal was to have X amount done by Friday. And I would say awesome this week, I'm doing these five. So I would piecemeal out the ones that I'm doing to make sure that it gets done because I feel like for me personally, going into it with that secure of a plan and that like narrowed in, it makes me

my brain just works differently, it's easier for me to see how to get to the end and I bust through it a lot faster. Whereas if I just go there and I'm like, I'll do five today, I'm like, this one, well, this one. so honestly, the time that it takes when I get there to figure out which ones I'm going to do, slows me down from getting them completed and then I end up behind. So if I just take a couple minutes, maybe 20 minutes to just dive into it and say, okay.

for the next four weeks, these are the five I'm gonna do each week, makes it much easier to like, just get them done as they come up. And making sure we all know where that living breathing document is and everyone has access to update it. That's huge, I know. We're talking about, know, creating and updating these new scorecards for all of our clients so that 2025 just is all wrapped in this pretty, bow.

The Dental A Team (14:37.763)

But I thought this morning and you just reminded me as well, like, gosh, we have a protocol for scorecards. So what happens right is we'll onboard new team members into a practice or into the Dental A Team or wherever we onboard a new person and then we're like, wait, shoot, that's so old. Like, please do not use that. Or they'll come ask a question and they're like, hey, I don't see this anywhere. Like, this is what the protocol tells me to do. But I'm not finding this program. Is this that's happened to me where I'm like,

we don't use that program anymore, just disregard. And then it's like, great, well, now how much of this can I trust as the person learning? Like, okay, well, if this piece of three, if one of three is wrong, now I'm probably subconsciously at least doubting the rest of this. And so I'm confused, I'm not remembering which ones I'm supposed to use, not to use. So making sure we go back and do those things is huge. And we do that even here in our company.

I know as we go through and things will pop up as you guys are onboarding new team members, which you will if you're growing, you're going to onboard new team members. And we know in this market, we're going to onboard new team members. So those things will come up. But I think Dana, your point to making sure that it's prepped and it's planned, setting a date maybe as a team to really get together and say, okay, guys,

we're going to delegate these out. So who's responsible ultimately for the operations manual getting done, setting an appointment, a meeting to say, okay, we're going to delegate all of these pieces out and then really having that just dates set in place. I think if it's updates, Dana, maybe I'm crazy, but I think if it's updates, you can probably get that done in like 45 to 60 days at the longest. And then Dana...

Just like maybe January, I'm like, shoot, is the time, guys. We're doing our freaking operations manual. This is going to be it. I typically will say to clients, let's be realistic and let's say like six to eight months, maybe even next year, and we'll help you to get these delegated out and like timelineed. What are you saying, as well with your clients, a good timeline for people to be realistic with?

Dana (16:28.75)

Thank you.

Dana (16:51.342)

I agree with you. think can it be done in three months? Yes. But it's like we are putting a lot of effort and a lot of time dedicated to that. So if we don't have a lot of time that we can block or dedicate to that, then I say realistically six to eight months. And even then it's still a lot of, it's still a lot of dedicated time.

The Dental A Team (17:10.103)

Yeah.

Dana (17:10.682)

But I feel like that is you can kind of build that into some downtime you can build that into so maybe those days where doctors at CE and team has some some time to fill or some Project time so I think ideally Realistically plan on spending six to eight months because it's a big project to tackle well worth it, but it's a big project

The Dental A Team (17:28.655)

It is.

Totally. I love that idea you just said of like CE, where doctors are out and that's oftentimes there's so many team members that want to still get the hours in, especially dental assistants, even that there's not always a lot for them to do. For the front office, it's very easy to say, okay, great, these are the calls, are the end of year benefit letters I want you to send, these are all the pieces. But that's a great space for hygienists and dental assistants to really be able to have some downtime. Because I do think being, you know, having that dedicated time to get those things done.

is beneficial. So I love that.

So I think you guys really just looking at what needs to happen within the operations manual and prepping and planning for it. Make sure you've got that meeting on on deck for it. Make sure you've got someone responsible for it and you guys have a plan built out. I would honestly if it were me, I was the office manager. I knew this was coming up. I probably have a plan built out before I got to the meeting and not just like, guys, this is what we're doing. It's we're building it together, getting the buy in from it, but making sure that you're not asking them to build out the plan because that'll be a much longer.

meeting. So make sure you've got it built out, you know what you want, you know what your expectations are, and then going into the meeting of can we meet these expectations, is this something we can accomplish together, will help to get that done. 45 to 60 days I think is plenty of time for updates and I think six to eight months is usually plenty of time for creation, but remember done is better than perfect and with the operations manual I am here to tell you

The Dental A Team (19:00.579)

There is no perfect. Okay, guys, there is no perfect. And there is never a done. There's a done for right now. And then there's an update later. It is a living, breathing document. So just keep that in mind. Don't be too hard on yourselves and make realistic goals for your teams. Dana, thank you so much. I think this is a huge, huge piece for them to really get prepped for next year. And you guys, I want you to take these notes. I want you to take these pieces and just go have fun with it. Figure out what needs to happen.

Make it fun, make it a big deal and get that sucker done. Q1 2025.
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#925: Rising From Rock Bottom
5 Dec· Dental A Team Podcast
In this powerful episode, Kiera is joined by John Jackson, executive director of Defy Ventures, Utah. John shares his history as a criminal, the time he spent incarcerated for his crimes, and how he found the power to change.

Kiera and John met through a Tony Robbins’ Business Mastery earlier this year, and Defy Ventures is one of the nonprofits the Dental A-Team is donating to through its Live to Give program this year.

About John: Correctional officials once labeled John “the worst of the worst.” As he served 18 years in prison, John rose through the ranks of his gang by honing his leadership skills. After four years in solitary confinement, John realized that building his criminal resume would only lead him to life—and death—in prison. He made the dangerous and unpopular decision to step away from criminal activity while incarcerated at Pelican Bay, a notorious supermax prison in California.

Since his release from prison in 2019, John served as the director of sales and fundraising at Hustle 2.0, helping to scale the organization from two prisons in California to 700+ jails and prisons in 47 states, serving 13,000+ incarcerated men, women, and youth. He co-authored 11 books. The curriculum provides holistic rehabilitation and healing for people in America’s most dangerous prisons, offering a pathway to college. John delivered a TEDx at Cornell University about ending the generation cycles of incarceration.

Today, John serves as the executive director of Defy Ventures, Utah, leveraging entrepreneurship to help incarcerated people transform their lives. He uses his story of courage and transformation to create hope for those who have been written off and forgotten by society.

Episode resources:

Learn more about Defy Ventures

Reach out to Kiera

Tune Into DAT’s Monthly Webinar

Practice Momentum Group Consulting

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Become Dental A-Team Platinum!

Review the podcast

Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:00.234)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. if you don't know, Dental A Team has a portion of our company called Live to Give. And every single year, our company goes and looks for organizations or places that I believe in that I feel can give a greater impact in this world. We've done a Make-A-Wish for a child who had stomach cancer one year. We have done Stuff for Santa within our communities. We have done

scholarships for people. And every single year we did a coat drive with all of our clients and we were able to give so many coats to cold families. And this year I met an incredible man named John from Defy Ventures. And John was an incarcerated criminal for 17 years. He was at maximum security. He was in solitary confinement for four years and he was sent to Pelican Prison, which is the number one like federal prison in California where it literally is like a resume builder for prisoners, but that is like the top of the top.

He was in gangs and he has actually come out of prison and his five years since his release date. And he has a company called the Five Ventures where literally they help incarcerated criminals turn their skills that they've learned in prison into something good and to build businesses. And it's such an incredible company. It's probably not the one that I ever imagined that I'd be recommending or talking to you about, but.

I'm bringing John on the podcast. John is a dear friend. met him and I just was so inspired by him of who he is as a person. And then also if you want no affiliation with our company with them, but just a cause of Live To Give where we donated as well. But you are able to sponsor an incarcerated criminal if you want to be able to give them the entrepreneurship skills and you're able to give back to an organization that I believe is trying to stop generational crime. The US has actually more in cart.

our 5 % of the world's population and yet we have 25 % of the world's crime. And just watching how our world is going, if there are people like John who were incarcerated themselves and have been able to turn and become a force for good and to be able to do incredible things for this world, it might be something incredible for you. I am literally so excited to bring you guys today's guest. This is someone that I met a couple of months ago at Tony Robbins Business Mastery.

The Dental A Team (02:19.04)

little plug we did freaking win john so we are the winners will show you our trophies. Yeah, bring the trophies up. But john was actually the reason that we won and we were helping support his company which is defy ventures. But john has such an interesting story. And literally I had the most life changing experience talking to john and so I'm so excited to welcome john I there's like so much more I want to say about your intro but I'm let you tell your story more than me enjoying you. But welcome to the show john how are you today?

I'm doing awesome. I have a huge smile on my face because I'm really excited. First is good to see you and second to be on your podcast to get to share with you. Getting to share that win on stage at Tony Robbins was definitely a highlight of my life. So thank you for supporting us and all in pushing us to promote while we were there as well. And I think you're back to back. You're on the back to back winning team, I think, two years in a row now. We're technically three for three, John, but

our win this time was the first one I got the trophy for. So thanks for making the trophy happen. Like I won them all the times, but, and it's funny because my friend that I had first, which some of the podcast listeners may have heard Pierce, Pierce had said trophy and we took a picture and he's like, here, I'm just going to take it home and then I'm going to ship it to you. And I was like, okay, Pierce, that's great. Cause Pierce is like freaking seven feet tall. So of course when Tony brought out the trophies, he like grabbed one. I'm not quite as tall.

And so I was like, no problem, Piers. And then Piers did a freaking podcast with me a little while ago. And those of you who watched it, Piers has his trophy right behind us on the podcast. And I was like, I remember that trophy, Piers. John, like this was like, and this we're talking, that was 2019. So this was five years in the beginning. But John, okay, Defy Ventures, you guys, we're gonna go into prison talk. John, I need you to tell your story. I'm gonna let you tell it. I'm gonna ask you like a thousand questions.

I literally felt like I interviewed you before the win. didn't know we were going to win at business mastery. For those of who don't know business master is an event that Tony Robbins puts on and you go to this event. This is actually in 2019. I went there literally skyrocketed Dental A Team to where we are today. but I learned so much about business and what you're doing is you're at this conference. It's running from like, gosh, 10 AM until 2 AM in the morning. Like it's insane. And while you're there learning content, you're also supposed to be building a business within. It is like the most exhausting thing that you've ever done.

The Dental A Team (04:38.688)

And John's business was the one that we did this year of DeFi Ventures. And it was so cool. But John, tell your story because I'm not going to do you justice other than the fact that like this man came from one of the craziest prisons and I'm just beyond blown away of who you are as a person and the background story that you have. So John, tell us all like your little history, not little. It's like nuts. And now we're sitting here. You're a free man today on a podcast with me. Like literally the irony and the magic of your life is just inspiring to me.

Thank you. Thank you. I just reiterate, I really am so grateful that we got to share that experience and Business Mastery has been, it has been a force accelerator for me as well. And whether it's through fundraising or just growing the impact that I want to have. So I'm really grateful that I get to do that and get to be a part of that experience. But yes, I'd love to share a part of my story. And I just start from, you're to have some highs and some lows here, but I promise we'll get to the end of it and it's a happy ending.

but it started, like the most striking memories for me, start when I was 11 and it's, you know, from my mom kissing me, tucking me in a bed, kissing me good night and her going to work. she was a waitress at Denny's. worked the graveyard shift. So I get up the next morning and I'm on my way to school and on my way to school, I see my mom's car parked on the side of the road and I go look in and it was her murder scene. So that was.

I was 11 years old. I never knew who my father was. So after my mom was murdered, I went to live with my aunt. And my aunt was a drug dealer. She was an entrepreneur. And she was a really good entrepreneur. She just used her skills in the wrong way. But when I was 17 years old, I was in the car with her. And we both get pulled over. She's got drugs in the car. And I can remember the cop.

walking up and my aunt leaning over and telling me, if the cops find the drugs, tell them they're yours. She was already on probation. So her getting caught with drugs again was going to send her to prison. So I already lost my mom, right? I didn't have a father. I didn't want to lose my aunt too on top of that. So when the cops found the drugs, I lied and I said they were mine. And my aunt watched as I was handcuffed and put in back of a cop car. Now's my first time being arrested.

The Dental A Team (07:06.285)

got to jail, 17 years old slap on the wrist, right? If my first time being arrested, I get released about two weeks later, but something that my aunt did was she praised me. She's like, good job. This is what you do for your family and you protect your family. And looking back now, I know like it's the opposite. She's supposed to protect me. First. not, I'm not, I'm not bashing her for selling drugs or doing anything like that, but having me take the drug charge. was, that was something very different.

but I knew at that time, I'm all in like a criminal lifestyle. This is what I'm going to do. And before the end of that year, I'd committed four armed robberies and I've been convicted of seven families. at 17, I was sent to a maximum security prison in California. So that's, that's kind of like, that's another like pivotal moment in my life is going to prison at 17. Yeah. Okay. There's more that comes and John like sitting here, I remember, so I meet you.

Yeah, I had some like biases. You were we're at Tony Robbins, our mutual friend told us about you. And you just told me some things that Tony Robbins you're like curious like K cradle the grave. Like that's the prison lifestyle. So at 17, had you graduated high school? Or were you still a senior in high school? Or school? I dropped out of school. Seventh grade is the last grade I completed. Stop for real. You see your mom. You're like I'm out your aunt probably different lifestyle.

Okay, so 17, you're starting to do all these things. So how does this work? Tell me from 17 to basically like, how what happens next? You like you get involved? I'm guessing criminal lifestyle? Like, how did you decide to go from like, Johnny from the block? was like literally like going to school. Now you're like in full blown criminal, but I might you're gonna take care of your family have no father, have no mother like this is the family. So you're going to adapt to family life. What happens after you're sent to like, how long are you in prison?

And by the way, you guys, I did ask John of anything that, cause I would, I'm so nosy. I'm so curious about this. And when we were talking at Tony Robbins before we ended up winning, I thought it was actually really awesome. Cause I got to hear your entire story even more so. And then we go on stage and we win. And it even more of a magical moment of like, I didn't feel like we won the conference. I feel like we won your life and like to see you have a very different life than like the path that you were on is why I wanted you on the podcast. Because I remember when we were talking, John,

The Dental A Team (09:33.453)

like I had actually had a really rough summer. and I had had like some really hard times. And I remember looking at you and I'm like, John loves himself so much. And you have told me some stories and I'm like, if this man can learn to love himself, like you're such an example for all of us of like, you don't have to be on the path that you were set on. No matter what we've done in life, like we can still have these happy lives.

And I just wanted to bring you on for like hope for people, but also like to learn from your stamina and your grit. And then we are also talking about how the prison and the mob, you're like freaking brilliant at systems. Like the businesses they run are freaking genius, just a little bit on the wrong side. okay. 17. have a question real quick though. have a question. You said you had some biases. can you share, are you comfortable sharing what some of those were? Like what do you envision of a person who's formerly incarcerated or gang member or any of things? What pops up in your mind?

I mean, it's a great question, John. And like, it's slightly embarrassing, but I think it's real. You're a male, I'm a female. I'm told that you're coming here and you just came out of maximum prison. How long has it been? Like what? Two years? Five years. Year two, five years. But there's a question of like, has this man really changed? Or is he going to, and like, especially as a female, like I'm very cautious of who I spend time with. And at certain conferences, full transparency, I have had men.

approach me in ways that are just not appropriate. And I felt uncomfortable around men at even some of the conferences we go to, which I think is just a female's life. And I think a lot of female would probably feel that way. So when our mutual friend Casey told us that he's bringing you to this conference, John, I'm not gonna lie to you. I was like, I'm gonna have my like guard up of like, I'm sure he's a changed man. But at the same time, I also don't want to be dumb and naive, especially as a female and like you came from maximum prison security. And so

I know we can have these honest conversations. And then I met you and who you are as a person. And I was like, this guy deserves everything in the entire world. And that's actually freaking what Defy Adventures is about is like helping incarcerated criminals have a life that's real. like, John, like it is scary because some people like the world is manipulative. The world. want to say about that. me say it's embarrassing. I don't think I hope you don't feel that way because I think what I what I see in that is or what I hear from that. That's

The Dental A Team (11:51.501)

That's much of what society paints with it. They just take a brush and they just paint it movies and TV and politics and anything else. They're really good at othering and saying, this is just who everybody is, right? Every single one of them are this terrifying, scary human being. And that's just not the case. But we've been so conditioned to believe that. And then you also just to like...

just to affirm your experiences, that is true. As a female, you go to these conferences and men are, put you in uncomfortable situations and that's a nice way to put it. Just total sleazeballs, I guess, can be unprofessional and not nice. And you think, well, if that's a business person, if that's a CEO, if that's this person, what's this person coming out of prison gonna be like? I mean, it's not wrong. It's accurate.

And it's also scary. How do you know to trust them? Right? Because criminals are literally built upon lies. They're built upon conniving. mean, criminals are like the best salespeople you'll ever meet. And so it's like, how do you trust that this person's truly genuine and that they are changed and that they're not going to like rob me or rape me or steal from me or like find out where I live and send a gang after me. Like I think those are real things, but I also think, like you said, a lot of it's the media.

And I also think that that's why it's hard for incarcerated people when they come out to even have a chance in a shot at life, which is why I think it really is cradle to grave, like you said, because society just throws you right back into that. And like there's stories that you hear of people that are in their hometowns, they leave and they become these incredible people, they come back to the hometown and people put them right back into the shadows that they were in before they left. And they never amount to anything. And I actually feel like that's very similar for you, but like,

How do we trust in society of like, are you a good person? Like, are you good or are you not good? I wanna give you the benefit of the doubt, but I also don't want to like be burned and regret my decisions. I think there's ways to do that, right? I think if we imagine like who would wanna be known for the worst decisions they ever made, like if all of our stuff was ever laid bare, I doubt we would ever trust, there would be very little trust in this world if every decision that you had ever made, you, myself or anyone.

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every lie you ever told, everything you ever was just like, hey, before we start having a conversation, I just want you to read this extended list of all the bad choices I've made. And then let's see if you're to invest in me as a person or you can get to know me. People would probably kick us out. It wouldn't. But it's our judgment, right? And we can protect ourselves. We don't need to give people our addresses and invite them to our homes or anything like that. It's not.

But it does mean that like as an entrepreneur or people who can hire and who own companies, you can interview people. We have processes for that to check background checks and ways to check and see where people are at and see about their transformation and test them before we bring them closer into our fold. No, absolutely. I think it's brilliant. And that's honestly why I brought you on because I think sometimes the biggest critic is ourselves too. so yes, we can be judgmental of other people, but like you said,

I mean, we all have laundry lists that we wouldn't be proud of. I just think criminals are painted in such a bad light. And I mean, for good reason, right? Like there are things that are done that shouldn't be done. But I also think that like you said something so paramount when we were talking in Florida and you said like, because I remember I asked you point blank, was like, John, how can you love yourself with everything that's happened? And maybe you can answer that question for people because this hit me to my core. And I was like, we're gonna have the podcast once so can re listen to this over and over.

But two, think so many people feel this way. I mean, you've done some pretty heinous things in your life, and yet you still love who you are, and you're still one of the happiest people. The light and life that you exude is just contagious. So how did you come to that? How did you come to that realization of, yeah, I've done all these things, but I still love me as John, and I love who I am, and I'm proud of who I am? Yeah. So two things. can have remorse over the things that I've done. I have done.

bad things in my life that have hurt a lot of people and caused a lot of harm and destruction. And first it starts with ownership. But yes, I did those things. It doesn't matter that I was a kid, right? was a dangerous kid. So full radical ownership. But yes, I committed robberies, I hurt people, and I continued that pattern and that behavior while I was incarcerated. The second part is I wouldn't be who I am today had I not done those things. Had I not spent 18 years in prison, had I not done

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had I not lived that life, I wouldn't be able to use my experiences to serve other people, to help you, Kiera, see that, not all formerly incarcerated people are bad. Like we are, like, please don't paint us all with the same brush. So I love myself. I get to use my story. get to use my experiences to show other people, hey, you can make it to the other side of this. There is a way out. It won't be easy, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. And I get to show other people who have never experienced that world, look.

Not everyone is that way. If we give them a chance and we invest in people, can be great. Is that some word on the lines with my answer? Yeah, exactly. I also love like, John, I'm curious, Kay, so you're incarcerated at 17. Is that when you were sent in? How long was your sentence at 17? It was 16 years originally. 16 years originally. Did you get out?

And then back in, because you said you were 18 years in prison, how did this work out? Or did you like just get more time extended to you? I got more time added to my sentence. So when I was originally incarcerated, it was for a 16 year prison sentence. And from the start, when I got to prison, I think you can imagine, actually, so incarcerated 17, made it to prison at 18. And like, it was a consecutive sentence. But when I got there, I engaged in violence, I joined a gang, I did all the things that I shouldn't have been doing.

And that got time added onto my sentence, which was like getting, I four years of solitary confinement for my gang involvement. And it just kept piling up and piling up. But I didn't at the time, I don't have that long term, that foresight to see like, I'm 17, 18 years old. It's 17, 18 years from now, I'm still going to be in prison. That doesn't make any sense. That doesn't register for a 17 or 18 year old at the time.

So basically your life of crime was pretty much just a year of your life. Like if we like really boil it all down, I mean, and it was probably a pretty wild year of your life. And I think getting into the prison, it's like perfect. And then like you and I talked about games. I was getting in trouble. That's somewhat accurate. I got sent to prison because of what happened in that short time period. But I committed more crimes, although I was committing crimes all the way up until my last conviction was actually in 2014.

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where I felt the conviction. And that's while I was incarcerated. like, I hadn't changed. I was still doing the same things all the way up until 2017 is when I made a pretty radical change in my life. Interesting. Okay. Like I said, I brought John on here. I'm so curious because it's so fascinating to me. Like, I think people just assume that they're going to be how it is.

Like, so when you got put into prison, did you plan like, got it, I'm gonna be here for 18 years, I'm gonna get out and be back in here. Or like, what was the thought process of you're being incarcerated? You've sentenced, you had four years of solitary confinement, and you're still doing things like, is it just like life? that like the job? Is that like the status within the That's what you said right there, it's life. Like, it's like, you know what you signed up for. It's like what you signed up for, it's part, it's just part of the deal, right? Like going to solitary confinement.

Like, so basically when you go to prison and you join the gang, the expectation is like, well, blood in, blood out, you know, until the casket drops. And that is taken literally. It's like, you're in. There is no, there usually is no way out. It is until the casket drops that you die. You like you're born. And for many people, this is an inheritance. They're, you know, they're third or fourth generation gang members. And it's like, I'm going to die in prison one day. That is just, this is what it is. like, Hey, like.

You know what you signed up for. Right. Like that's the compelling feature. This is where I'm at. There's really nothing I can do to change it. So let's have like the best ride. And also like within gangs, like you're being praised for doing these things. So you're getting the reinforcement. You're getting the kudos. Like your aunt told you after you come out for being drugs, like that's what you do for your family. it's like, and I mean, we're raised, we're raised by society. We're raised by what people teach us. And so I'm curious. Okay. So now you're there for your school.

Tell me about solitary confinement. Like, is that awful? I just need to know. Like, how is It is awful. It's awful practice that we use in the United States and we use it on children as young as 13, 14 years old. And it's been deemed by, it's been deemed human torture to put someone in an eight by 12 concrete cell and like no human contact. It's hard to explain. It's hard for people to imagine. They think that,

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TVs or something will show you that, it's 23 hours a day. That's not true. It's 24 hours a day. And even when you go out to recreational yard outdoor activities, it's just another cell outside of your cell. It's not like a real yard. You don't really go out to see the sun or the grass. It's another concrete cell, but it's just a little bit bigger. that's also...

like the grit and the determination and resilience that like, it becomes a challenge for most people who are back there. It's like, well, you're not going to freaking break knees. Like, so like we used to learn, we learned it's the cell faces. If you just imagine that like right now you're in a cell, there's a wall, there's a small window that faces a wall, maybe like four or five feet away. And that's what you look at for years. And that's really all you can see.

but there are seven other people in a unit with you that all face the wall. So you can talk to people. We learned to play chess. We play chess by memory. Like we have chess boards and we can play by memory, playing chess with each other. We play games and you find ways to, reading, working out, cleaning. It's where you, I really learned a lot of the discipline that I have today was learned in prison, in solitary confinement.

reading, writing book reports, working out every day, getting up on time, having a routine and discipline. I learned all of that in prison through the gang. you feel like, okay, tell me more about this. Do you feel like that routine and all the things you learned from that, like you just said, there was the discipline, getting up, like you had to basically probably build your own routine. I'm guessing the prison, like you're in confinement. No, we have one built for us. So the gang has one built for you. You get up, you have a roll call in the morning. It's like, hey everybody, good morning, time to get up.

And you have a workout, I clean my cell, I get a towel every day, a little shampoo, clean my cell down, make sure my cell is really clean, practice good hygiene, shower, brush my bird bath in there. You have a sink with water, so you just bird bath in your cell and read, study, workout. These things are mandatory every day. These aren't options. Okay. So then it like, which is probably good, it instills it.

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a routine for you, which I think is really paramount in life. like John, you said, like, where did your shift happen? Were you in solitary confinement? Or when you're in confinement? Are you just planning your next crime? Because like within the prison, that's where crimes a lot of times happen. You and I were talking like, I was like, the mafia and prison, like if it could be used for good, honestly, the criminal mind if it can be used for good is beyond brilliant.

they have SOPs, they have a pecking order, like they've got an org chart, like you and I were talking like, yep, you get a handbook when you show up to the gang, like it's wild to me how they run it. They they're profitable. They know their margins. They know what they need to do. They send people out there. They praise them for work well done. And I'm like, if we can just take that and apply it to business, like it's absolutely brilliant. It's just unfortunately done in a way that's not like great outcomes. So how did you change? Like, was it in solitary confinement? Was it like you said you had a radical shift in 2017?

you're still committing crimes from within prison. Like how did you change John? Because so many people I think would argue like you don't really change. But I remember I attended, I'm very fascinated by addictions. I'm fascinated by the way the mind works. And I actually went to this addiction course for a while and they said you don't change until you're like rock bottom. Like everybody will hit a rock bottom and it's oftentimes not for family. It's not for life. Like, but everybody has a rock bottom that you hit. And when you hit it, you actually change. like,

A lot of people don't even get there. So how did you change? Do you agree with that? Do you disagree with that? I do disagree with that. Somebody has to hit a rock bottom. There's a quote by a homo-incredible guy named Chris Wilson. says, rock bottom isn't a place, it's a state of mind. Interesting. Like you can't go find this place anywhere. But it's in me. It's a state of mind. And it's a decision that I don't want to be in this place anymore. But there's also a really good book that I encourage people to read. called The Stages of Change.

in the trans theoretical model is how change actually happens. And there's different stages of it. There's like, I won't go through the whole thing, but there's like, I'm to, I'm blanking on it right now, but there's like, I'm not, there is no problem. I'm not the problem. And actually you're the problem. That's like the first stage of change. And the next one is like, you have awareness, like, there's a problem, but I'm not willing to do anything about it. I like what's happening right now.

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So there's these different stages of change. I subscribe more to that model that people will make. We make changes in our life in stages. And for me, had started making, I made a radical shift, but that shift didn't happen overnight. But there was like that spark for me. And it was right after, was when I got sent to Pelican Bay State Prison. And after I out of solitary confinement, I was supposed to be going home.

but it was, it was the day before my birthday, was supposed to be going home. And instead of going home, I was starting another four year consecutive sentence for a crime I committed. And that was the day when I decided I was like, all right, something has to change, in my life. But also like I've been doing, I've been living this life for 15 years. I don't know what else to do. But what did happen was I sat, I stayed back from yard, which is in prison.

You typically don't do that. Yard is mandatory. Just in case a riot or something kicks off, we need everybody on the yard. But I stayed in and that was the first time that I remember ever crying in prison for 15 years. I'd never cried. I lost my uncle, I lost my brother, lost so many people throughout my, and never cried. But I cried that day and that was the first time that I remember really wanting to go home. I was like, this is it. If I don't make a change in my life, I'm gonna die in here. And I believe that I...

I had belief that I was meant for more than dying in prison. And that was the big shift for me was I just believe me that I was meant for more than in prison. Insane. And I think it's so incredible. like, okay, so we talk about it it sounds very fairy tale, right? Like we have this moment where we're meant for more, which John, I'm so glad you said that because I think so many other people have that. And that's why I wanted you on the podcast. This is I love talking to you. Because I'm like, gosh, if John can do all these things and realize he's meant for more.

Like so many other people were so hard on ourselves and like know we're all meant for more. So tell me like, how did you process it? Also being in a gang. I remember when I met you, I was like, I don't even know how you're out in your life because like leaving a gang is usually death. Like there's no way and you're in a very prominent gang. Like how did you, how do you change? How do you get out from a gang where you're like usually killed if you leave a gang? That's why people don't love gangs.

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But they're so prompt, like they're good businesses, they're good recruiters, like and young boys and like, it's all the things that young, it's all the things that boys and like men want war money, like it's all, it's all there. It's all there. meets the needs, it meets those needs. do a good job. Those needs. We were talking and you're like, they're great at recruiting. Like they literally list off everything you want. They recruit you when you're young and you're not making like intelligent decisions and then you're in it for life. So

You go through this moment where you realize you're meant for more. How do you change? how do you change? How do you get out of a gang? Because I think so many people, you were facing probably one of the biggest uphill battles of any person I have ever met, John. Like, I'm probably gonna write a book about you. Like, I've never written a book, but gosh, like your story is just so fascinating to me because I think so many people would just feel like there's no hope and yet you found hope when there was no hope. Like, I would say that most people would be able to find. So walk me through, how do you transform into the man you are today?

So it was more action than it was anything else. was like, to me, it was coming out and letting my homeboys know. First, giving up positions that I had in prison. I gave up, I was an entrepreneur in prison. I used to run every single business you could imagine. I ran gambling pools, I sold alcohol, I sold drugs, I sold cell phones. I created markets where there wasn't one. That was how I all my money in prison. And I stopped doing that. That was- is also so wild. Can we just pause there? I remember I was talking and it's like-

How do you even do this? And you're like, well, you get to know people. It's like freaking sales in prison. You get to know all the guards. You notice they're having a bad day. You get them to bring this up in. Like it is wild. And I remember we were talking, there was someone else in the group with us and they're like, well, all this happens in prison. I'm like, yeah, I even know this. Like they're freaking run businesses within the prison. And it is like multimillion billion. Like it is a very thriving business. They're very large. They're very scalable businesses. And like I was small time. I made good money, but I, I,

For example, I would run gambling pools. It was on football, baseball, basketball. I even ran gambling pools on the Oscars and what's that? I forgot the name of show, but the Bachelor. I used to run gambling pools in the Bachelor. They would pick who's gonna win and all I would do is take a cut of the money. And I was just a facilitator for people to be able to gamble. But when I would get to a new facility or a new yard, I would undercut whoever was already running, whoever was running these pools.

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I would just undercut them and I would over deliver. They're charging $2 for a ticket. I charge $1 for a ticket. They take 15%. I take 10%. And I put them out of business and then I come back and hire them. And I hire them as like a kind of like a franchise. It's like, okay, now you're gonna do it for me in your building and I'm gonna give you 2 % of the cut. All you gotta do is pass out the football tickets and collect the money and give it to me and I'm gonna pay you. Okay, but how do you do that? Now I get killed in prison. Like that's not a joke.

Like I feel like you come in, there's a top dog and you take them down. They usually take you out. is it just because you- There's rules. That's where the rules come in. There's so many rules. Yeah. There's like, don't just get to go out and fight people whenever you want. You don't just get to go out and assault people whenever you want. Like it doesn't work. Like it does not. That's movies. And also that's also California. California is very organized, very structured. So it's like, Hey, you just got put out of business. Like too bad for you. Like nobody's gonna like-

They can get upset whatever they want, like that's not going to, that's violence is violence is always 99.9 % of the time is always predetermined. It's not random. Even when it's against an officer, it is not random. There is a high likelihood that that officer came in. I'm not justifying why that happens. not saying there's any reason why anyone should ever be assaulted. but when you're living in that life, there are

in that criminal mindset, there are justifications. And I've seen officers come in and take someone's family photos and throw them in the toilet and tear them up. And it's like, well, you just destroyed something that meant really a lot to that person. And they believe that their only way of justifying that, rectifying that is by going out and assaulting them. So it doesn't happen. No one wakes up one morning and be like, I feel like going out and stabbing someone. That doesn't happen.

Because it's a business. It's a plan like and as gross as that is you and I were talking about this and I'm like, I'm fascinated by business and I'm fascinated by criminal minds. Because like, it is a business and it is a livelihood. It's a lifestyle. Like this is how you get like all of us do things for money for our lives. And if that's all you've ever been taught, it's very hard to know different case. So you're the entrepreneur in there, you're undercutting all the other businesses. Like how do you change and also how do you even tell the gang that you're not going to be a part of it? That's like so

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a foreign, you must be really good at sales or something, John, because I feel like, like that's just not heard of. So it's a couple of things. So first, like some of the, the, some of my older own boys who are in prison, who are internet men in prison for a very long time and have a lot of influence, they were my mentors. They, and with proximity is power, right? So like I was around people who have a lot of power and, they believed in me.

And eventually, I let people know, like, hey, I'm not doing that anymore. And it was right around that time that Defy Ventures came to Pelican Bay as well, which is an entrepreneurship program. And it really came in at just the right time because I didn't know what to supplement. There's a huge gap in my life, and I don't know what else to put, but then Defy came and was like, okay, well, here's how you can start to use these skills in a positive way. And that was really what helped to self-solidify my change was I was able to help guys. I graduated from the program.

I became a facilitator and a leader within the program. And now guys, instead of coming to me for alcohol and phones and everything else, they're coming to me for resume feedback, business ideation feedback. They're coming to me for positive things and how can they get involved in programs? So it's like I was taking myself out of the negative conversations around the gang and taking myself out of anything that had to do with the gang and putting myself into positive, into more positive things. And people saw that.

And yeah, people called me all kinds of names when I first started making changes in my life. Names I won't repeat, but you can imagine what they are. But what I realized was it takes a lot more courage to step away and not be involved. is the easy thing to do is get involved in rides and sell drugs. That's easy to do because everybody else is doing it. But eventually one of the top guys in my game,

He eventually asked me, it, he pulled me over on the yard and was like, John, is this really what you want? Like, you really want to leave? I was like, yeah. Well, I didn't answer that quickly because I was terrified. He's like, yeah, this is really what I want. And he's like, good, because you're too smart to be in here and you could do more than die in prison. So mind your own business, go home. We love you. Go home. And he was, he's been down, he's been in prison for almost 40 years. did 32 consecutive years in solitary confinement.

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He was first arrested when he was four years old. Four? He was four years old and he was arrested. I didn't know they could even arrest four year olds. I didn't know that. Yes. it's kind of, I say this, in the land of the free, we have handcuffs that are small and lifted around the wrist of a four year old child. Wow. Insane. What were his chances that he was going to go to college? What were the chances that he was in a

do anything, but he's one of the most charismatic CEOs you'll ever meet. That's incredible. So you change. I think it's what I love. And I'm curious, do you feel like your solitary confinement and the grit and the mental stamina you built up there possibly could have influenced your decisions to leave and to have a different life? Like, feel like that solitary confinement, if you will allow it, which I think so many things in our lives could allow.

For me, John, listening to your story, I'm curious if you learned mental stamina, mental grit. You'd already done probably some of the hardest things. I think that actually was probably harder than telling people that you want to have a different life. Do you feel like there was any mental stamina that you learned or grit or lessons you learned that maybe made it easier for you, even though easy is like with massive air quotes? Because I don't think any of what you did was easy. But do you think any of that played into it for you? Definitely. It also helped that I've been to that stuff because that's a resume builder in prison that you put in words.

Bender the shoe. This shoe is a solitary housing. It's called solitary housing unit. So then the shoe, you found these things and then when you get to Pelican Bay, which is like the white house or like, it's like where you want to go. If you get to, when you get to Pelican Bay, you're like, yeah, I made it. It's like, that's your like stamp. That's like your stamp of approval. Is that just cause it's the hardest prison? Like why is Pelican Bay? Okay. They're the hardest prison. It was, it's one of the, it's the only super max in California. And I think it's changed now. They're there. Hopefully they shut it down, but it was known for.

All the top game leaders are put in solitary confinement there. And it's where like, there's a few prisons in California and Pelican Bay is one. Pelican Bay was one of them. So like I had the mental grid and determination. I was still terrified. It's like at the end of the day, like I'm just one, just one person, but I really, what I was more afraid of dying in prison than like, because I'm not dying in prison anyways. Like, what are you guys going to do to Right. No, it's a Stupid slash am, like stupid slash arrogant.

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which works out, which works out sometimes and right. Yeah. For entrepreneurs, think it works out sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't. It worked out this time. Interesting. Okay. So the five entries is such a cool company and such an amazing thing because it really does help these. I feel like it's almost like the redirect. So you're taking these criminals that have had like amazing, brilliant, you just redirect them into something good because I do believe, and I don't know, you've been in prison, you've seen probably the darker side of life. John, I believe

that people are inherently good. Do you believe that after seeing the dark side of life? you believe that sentiment as well? Yes, I do. And I've seen it. Even the guys that I talk about who have been incarcerated for 30, 40 years and have done, made terrible choices. I've made terrible choices too. There's like when you tap into a softer part of them, when they have hope, hope, when they have hope, right? It makes such a huge difference in someone's life when someone has hope versus

Like you're an animal and you're a monster and you're dying in prison, right? Then when you have hope, some of that good starts to come out. The good, I can see it, I can point to it because I'm right here today. The goodness in them said, John, go home, do good. I still talk to them to this day and they love seeing me win. They love what I get to They love seeing me succeed and do great things, even though they will never, they'll never get out of prison. But they love seeing other people succeed.

Which is incredible to me because you would think like, can criminals really be kind and have kind hearts? Cause you see the evil side of it. I think John, okay, I have a few more questions. I know we're coming up, but like, okay. Question one is tell me about what it was like. Well, actually I'm going to ask this question first. Cause then I want to hear like a happier side. I think there's a preconceived notion about people that who are criminals and then they change that like,

Well, yeah, but is this like a long thing? And like, do you ever get tempted to go, I don't know, do all the things you used to do? Like there was status, there was power. Like, how do you navigate? It's almost like you've tasted of that fruit. How do you not go back to that? As human natures, right? Human nature is easy. like, riddle me on that one. How do people trust him believe that these incarcerated criminals really have like truly changed and are just going to like flip a switch one day or they'll go back to their old roots? Like,

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Can you answer anything on that? Because I think that that's a misconception across the board. that takes work. These are patterns for whether someone's in any patterns. It's like addiction. It's a pattern in our life. There's a pathway in our brain, whether it's violence, aggression, whatever it is that we're engaging in. That's a pathway that's been created in our brain and it can become a go-to just like that. So it takes years of work to start undoing those patterns and learning new patterns.

And we can all learn new patterns. Our brains are very, that plasticity, right? Our brains can learn. We're forever learning. So for myself, ask about like, what, do I have criminal thoughts? Yeah, I have them all the time. But I know that I don't want to do, I don't want to do that. Number one is I don't want to create more victims. Number two, I never want to go back to prison. I never want to give up my, I'll never give up my freedom again. There's nothing in this world that will make me give up my freedom again. And I can get my needs met in other ways.

Right? Like whether it's significance, whether it's contribution, whatever those needs are, I can get them, I can meet them now in a legitimate way because I have the skills and the tools to get to meet them. Whereas before, the people who we serve in prison, they didn't have, no one sent them to school. No one sent, like when I dropped, when I got kicked out of school in seventh grade, nobody came to look for me. The school, the school didn't, the school never called my family and asked about me.

No truant officer ever came searching for me. Right? Like that to me, that's why, because there's multiple factors. It could be the neighbor that you grew up in, how much money you have, and the color of your skin. Determines the opportunities and the ways that we were raised. So many of the people who come to prison with us, the volunteers, the CEOs and executives, we ask a series of questions and we ask like, how many of you have more than 50 books in your house growing up? Your parents pay for you to attend private school.

Your parents tucked you into bed every night, right? At least one parent tucked you into bed. Like I heard gunshots in my neighborhood growing up. Like these, and you see the stark contrast between the opportunities that we had. So is it expected that there, that people who are incarcerated have these patterns in their life that have, that have gone on for years. But at Defy, we can teach them and start to give them new patterns of, you used to do this in prison for the gang. Well, you can convert that.

The Dental A Team (42:46.573)

over it, this is a, it's called a transferable skill. You can transfer that skill set over here and use it this way. That's incredible. I love it. And that's ultimately what Defy is for. And that's what like changed your life is this company that you guys are a part of comes in and they teach the curriculum. They give like, you guys have your little SOPs. You've got all your manuals. They go through class. How long do people usually

participate in DeFi before they are. So it's not easy. This is the curriculum they're going through. This is a lot of curriculum that they are going through and reading. And if you have everything in here from self-limiting beliefs to building out your business model to running an MVP, they have everything through that. And it's a lot. It takes around six months for them. It takes about six months for them to get through the curriculum. That's awesome.

And that's like really what your passion is now. So, okay, I'm going to ask the question and then we're going to talk about Defy and how you even got to Defy. But okay, I need to know. So it was probably what 2017 and you were released in 2019? Yeah, got on June 19th, 2019. June 19th. I bet you'll never forget that day. Well, actually I think the greatest thing happened this year I did forget and Casey texted me and was like, congratulations. What for? It's your five years. I forgot that I did forget. That actually felt really good to forget that.

It felt good to forget that. That's amazing. I, that makes me actually so happy because then it's not a stamp of remembering who you were, but who you are today is what you're actually living. So basically two years from the time like you made this decision, two years, you build up a business plan, you're learning all these skills, you're released. I need to know like, and I don't even know if you can put into words, like what did it feel like to have freedom back after 17 years?

of not having freedom, of being in solitary confinement, of feeling like you're gonna be in this for the rest of your life, to then changing and realizing, I want a different life. Can you just explain to the listeners and to me, what does that even feel like? Because I think we take for granted our life, our love, our happiness, all the things that we have on a daily basis, and you had all that stripped away from you for years, for good reason, right? There were consequences associated, but what did that even feel like when you were released? So my release was a bit of a journey.

The Dental A Team (45:04.129)

There was a typo in my transcripts, in my transcripts that I was supposed to, I had committed crimes in Texas where I was originally born. I went back to court, I served my time, I did everything. The transcriber forgot to check a box that I had been incarcerated for 18 years. So I had the federal marshals come pick me up from prison and fly me out to Texas. And they held me against my will for 10 days before they released me.

it took lawyers, I had volunteers or mentors of mine who I met through defy who got me an attorney and fought for me and eventually fought for my eventually won my release after 10 days. but even up until that moment, they called me out and like Jackson, it's called RC or RCO one. Like you're going home. and then I'm like, you're going home. I'm like, I didn't believe them. I felt like I had been screwed over by the system so many times and I.

They're like, give us your social security number forward, give us your social security number backwards, what address you used to live at when you were 13. And I don't remember any of this stuff. And then I get in front of a glass door and they're just waiting for it to open. just didn't believe it was gonna open.

But I finally did and I was able to walk back and I got the hell out of there as fast as I could because I was scared they would come back and take me away and tell me like, we're just screwing with you. Like it's a joke. not really letting you go. And finally made my way back to California. So they flew me out to Texas. I had no idea or nothing. I had to find my way back to California within 72 hours to go over my parole meeting.

So, but I got on a flight. I was able to fly with no ID. How did you do that? That's impressive. So I started working for another organization called 2.0 and we printed up a fake IP. Our business manager printed up a fake IP for me, printed it up, sent it to Kinko's and I went and got it and I got in the plane.

The Dental A Team (47:17.485)

It's fine. We gave away crime. just smelt like it's just a little like we're fine. I had to get back to California to violate my parole. Yeah. All right. So you get back. Go on. was like it's taken. It has taken time to it's very trying. It is re-entering society after 18 years of that. It's very traumatizing. I had a hard time sleeping. didn't sleep. Casey being a

Going to Casey's was actually the first time I fell asleep. I fell asleep at his house. I hadn't slept in close to like five days. I hadn't slept. Just because I couldn't like be in a room with doors and windows and large spaces. I was not used to that. I was used to being in a small cell that, you know, I know everything that's going on in that cell. then it's, it's, it's taken a lot of time, a lot of healing and a lot of therapy to be able to like sleep with my bedroom door open now. Yeah.

That's incredible. It's amazing. John, like it was thank you for sharing because it touches me too, because I can only imagine and I felt it. I think at a very small level because I'll never know what that felt like. To hear because I agree, I it was so like, this even real life? And well, I mean, I've got all the hopes and aspirations, but will I actually be able to achieve everything that I know I'm meant to do? And then now five years later, you're married, you have a house, you you've got this happy life. Like

I just remember watching you at Tony Robbins and I think so many people love being there. And I feel like you're experiencing life like for the first time. It's almost like watching a child experience life, not that you're a child, but just the joy and the love and like you're experiencing life I feel firsthand for the first time right now. And I think to be able to watch you do that was so magical for me because like I take these things for granted. I mean, I get to go to these events and I get to have these and like, yes, it's amazing, but.

Like watching you just, feels like every day you live, you live to the fullest. And I don't know if you want to comment on that. And then I want to talk about Defy and help you. I try to, I still like, I have hard days. I have days like, I, that, that days that suck, days that are like not the best, right? But trying to practice gratitude and I can, I can forget that sometimes. can forget, but I actually like thinking about it, I'm actually grateful that sometimes I can have those days because I'm that far away from where I used to be that I can be like,

The Dental A Team (49:39.949)

crap, I'm stuck in traffic. I'm not in solitary confinement. This traffic, I mean, 80 is really bad. I'll give it Five years ago, like, I would have done anything to just be able to sit in traffic, right? And sitting at cell. But I look at it as like, but it's a good reminder to be like, yeah, could have, I could, my life could be much, much worse. But today I get to use my life for to do great. I get to live what I believe is my purpose and why God put me on this earth. So I love that.

I love that you just said that because I think maybe that was like the piece I wanted people to hear. There's so many pieces I wanted people to hear from you, but to hear like today I get to live my life on purpose. I get to live what I was meant to be here for. And I think like hearing someone like John, I don't think so many of us listening will ever understand what it feels like to be in prison for 18 years. Like I hope so many people don't have that. And I think just like you really bring me back to gratitude every time I talk to you of just like how blessed I am to have the life I have and to

like live those days and to live the purpose that I was meant to be and like we're all created for more. And so tell me a little bit about Kay, here's John five years. You have to five ventures kind of tell us a little bit about what the five ventures are because I think it's incredible that entrepreneurs like most of the listeners here were able to go in and give you the gift of entrepreneurship. And now you're doing that for more incarcerated criminals. And when Casey talked on stage, he said like,

The US is not as big of a population and yet we house the most criminals within the US. Like you probably know those stats way better than I do. We have about 5 % of the world's population, but we incarcerate 25%. We have 25 % of the world's incarcerated population. The vast majority of them are black and brown people. That's just the reality. We have one of the highest recidivism rates in the world. All of these things that show that we have a broken system, a system that does not work.

And I know what you went to me when I heard that I was like staggering statistics. And just thinking like what you guys are trying to do is stop generational crime and stop like the path of cradle to grave and like, I don't know you said blood to casket, like crazy to me that that's how but you're like, this is my life. That's all you know. And it's like, well, think about where we raise and like, my parents went to college. So I went to college and

The Dental A Team (51:57.229)

Like, yes, we can break away from it, but breaking away from the mold, I do think is hard. And so kind of tell us a little about about five ventures. And if people are interested, this is our live to give this year of like having a way to give back. was so incredible to see how many people were able to help through this program at Tony Robbins. And then also for me and all the listeners know every year we do live to give and something that just really is a bigger impact than ourselves. Cause I believe we're so blessed as entrepreneurs, let's give back and serve more. So kind of tell us a little about.

what DeFi Ventures does and how people can get a part of that if they want to. Yeah, so DeFi, we leverage entrepreneurship. We want to, it's we call it transforming their hustle, right? It's taking all those skills that they've learned through the criminal and gang life and using them to apply to start their own business. And they don't have to start a business. They can also do that, like being what's called an entrepreneur, where you are using that creativity, using all your skills as an employee. So we leverage that. And what we do is we

also recruit CEOs, executives and business leaders to come into prison with us for our events. They're very similar to what we get to do at Tony Robbins. People jumping around, having a great time, getting people in state and giving feedback on their business pitches. Because we're going to get them all the way to writing a business pitch and post it after they get out of prison. We help them get them all the way to seed funding as well. If they're doing, if they're meeting certain benchmarks, we'll put them in front of investors to help them start their business.

but they have to have a job, have to have stable housing, which we help them do after they get out. We're building character and leadership development in them as well. Because as you know, as entrepreneurs, it's not just about making money. Like that's not what defines an entrepreneur. There's a lot that goes into it. Like you can make a boat ton of money and ruin your life, ruin your marriage, ruin a whole lot of things if you don't have great coping skills. So we take a holistic approach to the healing and...

That's a big part of what we get to do at Defy is yes, we want you to start a business, but more than that, we want you to develop you as leaders and develop your character. So to date, we've helped launch over 600 businesses for people who are formerly incarcerated. One of the guys you can look up, he's a rock star, name is Cos Marte. He founded a company called ConBody. I he's got over 75,000 customers and he does prison style workouts for people. So if you want a good workout, you can go to ConBody.

The Dental A Team (54:15.469)

and we'll partner you up with somebody who's formerly incarcerated and they'll get your butt working out. We have lot of things by 90 % employment rate, 90 days post release for our EITs. We call it EITs. That stands for Entrepreneurs in Training. And so when they get out, we help them get jobs. We have partnership with Google, Apple, LegalZoom to help them get on their feet, them get a laptop, start their business, incorporate their business. And the ways to get involved are one,

We're a 501c3 nonprofit, so it costs us $1,700 per person to put someone through the CEO of your New Life program. So you can sponsor someone. Even in your chapter, we have multiple chapters. We're a nationwide organization. So if you're in Utah, California, Washington, the tri-state area, Pennsylvania, Illinois, can search for defy.org and support a chapter near you. Or you can...

We go to volunteer as well. love bringing people into prison, business coaches and mentors to come in and invest in our entrepreneurs and training and give them the feedback that they desperately need. And it makes a huge difference when you come to prison with us and invest in people for people who have been incarcerated 20, 25, 30 years that people actually care. And it also starts like what happened for you, Kiera, it starts to break those stereotypes or those beliefs that you have about what someone is from there, who someone is.

that has committed a crime or someone who's incarcerated. Yeah, I love it. Dental A Team does live to give every single year. this is just something when I met you, John, and yes, we won the trophy. But like I said, I feel like we won life. you've just taught me to, like I said, you can love yourself even in spite of everything that's happened. And you see yourself as, I'm John. Yes, I've done those things. But like, I love me as a person. And I can feel sad for those things. And I can have remorse. And I can do all the things to repair.

but it doesn't define you either. And I feel like you just have this love and this sparkle of life, which makes me so happy. And then to be able to give that to other people, I think is just an incredible cause that you guys are doing and excited. I'll be there January 17th. I'll see you guys. And am I scared out of my mind? I'm like, John, are you sure I'll be safe? Like, how do know these people aren't going to like grab my hair and hold me by my throat with a knife? Like, do I fear that? John. can address that right now. And I could just share with people who might think that prison is a...

The Dental A Team (56:40.941)

So these are rules that are in prison from gangs, right? That like, not saying that I agree with them, but like, if you have a sex offense, you rape or child molestation, those types of crimes are severely frowned upon and actually violence is committed against people who come in with those crimes. And I brought hundreds and thousands of hundreds, literally hundreds, and over the 10 years that we've been doing this organization, we brought thousands of women to prison. Never once have we had any incident. It is one of the most

The men there that you will meet will be the most respectful kind. One of the safest places you can be is actually in a maximum security prison, especially for women. respect that the men have in there for you all coming in there to support us and care about us. We know why you're there. It's to serve and I want to learn from you. I'm not there trying to do anything else. I want to learn from you. That's really what it's about.

That's amazing. And thank you for speaking to that because I do like those are the fears that's media and but I think it's such an incredible cause to give people a second chance in life and to put them through programs like yourself where you are coming as the product of this program and looking what you can do for all these people. So John, I just appreciate you in my life. I appreciate learning from you. I appreciate that you let me ask all of my questions and your story.

You're a great question asker. That's why we want to talk about it. I was not here asking questions. You're a great interview and a great question asker. Thank you. Well, it's genuine curiosity because just to see who you are today versus where you were five years ago, seven years ago. And what I think is also magical is it didn't take a long time, right? Like you were in prison for 14 years and you were able to turn your life like to also give hope that if people have addictions or people have done things in their life they're not proud of.

It didn't take you 17 years. For sure, you're gonna spend the rest of your life trying to make up for the pain that you maybe caused other people, but you're doing that and by stopping generational crime and making those changes that I think for people, you give hope. You give hope for loving ourselves. You give hope for forgiveness. You give hope for the beauty of life. You give hope for things that we can do to invest and to give back to a greater cause. And I just think you're such a special person that this world is so lucky to have a part of.

The Dental A Team (59:02.625)

Well, thank you and your curiosity and your light and the love that you give off is really very inviting and very welcoming. So I'm very grateful for you and having me today and being your friend. really grateful to have you my life as well. I hope you quickly become a really great friend and I really look forward to seeing you in prison. I know, right? It sounds like a funny, a funny phrase, but agreed. so for all of you, if you feel called, like just check it out. I think it's such an incredible thing. But find something like I'm always about live to give and how can we give and serve? What, whether it's

prison, whether it's sex trafficking, whether, whatever it is, child hunger, find something where you can give back and truly change lives because I truly do believe at the heart of every person in this world, no matter what they've done, people are inherently good and people want to be good. And sometimes they just need to have somebody believe in them and love them as well. So John, thank you for being on our podcast and sharing your very personal life. I just appreciate you a ton. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you as well. Of course.

And for all of you listening, thank you for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#924: 2025: Getting Creative For Your Practice
4 Dec· Dental A Team Podcast
Kiera lays out a ton of ideas on how practices should be looking ahead to 2025, including the right percentage growth to aim for, why you actually can take time off for vacation, and more.

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.994)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and welcome to the Dental A Team podcast. I hope today is such a magical day for you. I hope that you are having such a fun time and I hope that you are wrapping up 2024, getting ready for 2025. I am so excited for you guys as you're wrapping up the year. And I just wanted to take a minute of let's not forget how to maximize and optimize our schedules for 2025. I know it can sound funny, but really if we take the time now,

to project out, prepare for our year. You are gonna have such a better year in 2025. So welcome to projections with the Dental A Team podcast. As always, if this podcast has changed your way, your life in any way, if it's shaped you, if it's molded you, if it's helped you, please leave us a review. Please share this podcast with someone because my goal is to have this podcast in the hands of every single dental practice to be able to positively impact and influence giving tactical practical skills and solutions for free.

So that way we can rise and elevate the world of dentistry. And that's my mission and my goal. And I can only do it with your help and your support. So leave those reviews, share it with somebody and let's make the world of dentistry realize how incredible it is that we're a part of it and give you practical tactical skills to take your practice to the new, to the next level. All right. So as you guys are preparing for production, the big thing you guys need to be doing right now, and I'm hoping that you do this before end of year, that would be optimal.

is let's start building out our schedule for next year. And that means we're looking at the number of providers we have, the number of providers we might be adding in, number of hygienists. And then also let's look at our vacation time we want off. So often I hear, Kiera, I just can't take time off of my practice. And I just say, that's actually not true. You totally can. We just need to plan and prepare for it. And then we need to set our goals accordingly. So you need to be looking at your practice now and it needs to be a minimum of a 10 % growth.

So we did a million this year, we should be doing 1.1 next year. So once we know that, we then go through our schedule, we figure out, all right, how many providers, how many hygienists, how many days off, how many holidays, let's look at all of that. Also, I would strongly recommend that you are actually looking at trends. And doctors and office managers, this is a phenomenal exercise to do together. So what we wanna do is you wanna look at trends. Historically, is our February always low?

Kiera Dent (02:19.648)

And I usually look two or three years back, you can make spreadsheets about that. That's how we do it. So we can historically look, all right, how was our December? How was our September? Was it slam dunk timber or was it suck timber? What about our February? Was that low? Was it high? What about our December's? Historically, how are those doing? And once you can get the trends, we can also make our goals and our, like everything way more realistic for us. So then you're gonna wanna look through, and we actually have spreadsheets for this for our clients where you go through and it's going to be, all right, in January, how many?

days do we have available? How many days are we going to be off? What is our doctor out hourly? How many hours are they working? How many columns do they have? What about for our hygienist? And then it actually spits out a monthly goal for you based on the number of providers you have, doctor and hygienist based on what their hourly trends have been, which you can look back three to six months to see what have their, what are they historically doing? Then we can increase that. So maybe if our doctors are producing 500 an hour, maybe we bump them to 525 or to 550.

But really figuring this out so that way we can make sure all of them are hitting the levels that they need to be hitting that then projects you your monthly goal because based on the number of days providers that hourly we're able to do that. Hygienist as you know should be doing at least three times their hourly. Hygienist that's the standard across the board. I know insurances can be tricky and that's where we also look to see, okay, what do we need to add to our appointments? Are we doing our fluoride? Are we doing our laser? What about our FMXs? Are there things that we could be doing because guess what?

So many practices are able to hit this. And so I know that you're able to do it as well. It also means we've got to work on keeping the schedule full so we're not having as many cancellations. So we look at that. And then we also figure out we're going to take vacations in September because historically that's a really junk month for us. So let's do it there. We're also going to take them in February. Let's maximize the time where it's already slow. And if we can do that, we're actually going to do a lot better. And once you get all this data, it's going to spit out a number for you. And it's going to tell you, OK.

based on everything you put in, based on the hourly, based on the providers, based on the days off that we're having between holidays and vacations, you are gonna produce, let's say, one million. Well, we know we need to be at 1.1 because that's our growth. So then we look back and we say, okay, what could we do? Do we need to increase our hourly? Do we maybe need to bring in another provider? Do we need to look at how many days we're closed? Do we need to open up a few others? Do we need to increase our daily goal so that way we're hitting it? What does that equate to?

Kiera Dent (04:43.554)

Oftentimes I'll look in offices like we need to produce 20,000 more. Well, a lot of offices are actually working 16 days a month. So if we need 20,000 and we've got 16 days a month, that's 1250 per day that we would need to add in. And then I love to take it to teams and I like to ask, all right, what is 1250 worth of dentistry? That's like literally one crown. That's a couple of fluorides, it's quad of fillings. Like it's a few night guards, a few like whitening.

And we start to get really creative. If we know that I love to break it down and then that becomes your new daily goal for your team. And this is how we're able to take vacations, we're able to hit our goals with ease and we're able to maximize and actually set effective goals for every single month rather than just arbitrary. Cause most people would say, Kiera, that's way too hard. And I used to be this person where I would take, if we need to do 10 % growth, I'll just take 1.1 divided by 12, bada bing, bada boom. We need to do 92,000 per month. Well,

That's great, but what about our low months? What about the months we're taking vacations? Like, are we just expected to produce a lot more? What happens if we have a hygienist that goes out on maternity leave? What happens if we have a doctor that goes out on vacations? Like, that becomes very hard. So if in the month of December, we're only open two weeks, well, I don't think that that month should be equally weighted as maybe August, where we've got five weeks in that month. So what this does is it really helps you actually maximize, optimize, take vacations, and make sure that we're able to hit our goals with ease.

I love this model. I geek out about it. I work with my clients on this. We work in our consulting with this because I think this is something that sometimes can feel daunting. And it's just stuff that we just don't want to do. I'm building out my projections. And then what I look at next is, okay, if that's what we're producing as a practice, what are our costs for next year? And are there costs that we're going to need to bring in of maybe hiring new people or doing different things? And do we actually like is 1.1 or that 10 % growth?

actually going to support and sustain the practice like we need it to do? Or do we need to get more creative? Being more creative, like could we add in other services? Could we do ortho? Could we do sleep? Could we do implants? Like what do we need to do in our practice? What things do we already have that maybe we're not doing? Like I have offices right now that are doing a whitening competition. That's easy ways to add in production on our schedule that we're already doing that we're just not maximizing. What if we've got a 3D printer? Could we look for night guards and could we do that?

Kiera Dent (07:06.332)

What about sports teams in the area? Could we do those? Like this is where we start to get into our creative world to really truly grow our practices with ease. And so this is where I wanted to come and just kind of give you guys a quick snippet of how you can actually build these out. And the reason why we do this is like I said, so we're actually able to maximize and optimize and be able to hit our goals with ease. Now things that might come up as a tricky piece is like, well, should I be doing CE? And the answer is,

Like I'm all for CE, I'm all for doctors doing CE, I'm all for all of that. But I also wanna make sure that we're not being CE overload to where we're actually not implementing. So what I say is if you're gonna go to CE, there needs to be a complete action plan for you when you do come back of we're gonna do X number of cases. So if we go to sleep within the next quarter, our team's gonna set some goals around it and we're gonna try and actually accomplish doing, I don't know, 20 cases, okay? So what do we need to do for 20 cases? How do we track this? How do we monitor this?

So whenever we go to CE, the CE is actually being implemented into our practice and it becomes a habit as opposed to a fleeting thought. This is what happens with ortho doing, I heard an office and they do a sip and scan and they bring all their patients in and they have like a fun wine night and they just scan and then they present ortho cases. There's software out there that can show patients their smile transforming right before their eyes to be able to do it. So there's so many opportunities for you.

to get creative when you know what the goals need to be to sustain the practice as a business. So we go through, we figure out our provider amounts, we figure out what our goals should be, we figure out what we should be estimated for our production based on years prior, and we set our goals accordingly. And then we make sure what we're going to spend actually is in align with what we're producing. And then if it's not, we get creative and we figure out, should we do CE? Should we not do CE? What things could we do? What can we do to boost our months? If we know September is always low,

What could we be doing in June, July and August to make sure that it's higher? Like, could we go back and for implant cases, look at all of our patients that are denture patients and send them a special letter. Like, there's so many opportunities and this is why I love to consult practices is because we help you think outside the box. We help you figure out how are we gonna be able to get to the goals we want, but do it with maximum ease and efficiency. How do we look and use our numbers as levers and dial that in?

Kiera Dent (09:29.058)

rather than just assuming like, well, it is what it is. Let's hope and a wish. No goals and numbers and projections don't need to be a hope and a wish. They can actually be built upon mathematical things. Looking back at trends of where we should be and then increasing based on where it should be. Also your 5 % increase on fee schedule should be in place too. So like that's where it's very easy to be hitting this growth with minimal effort. We just need to make sure that we're all doing it.

And so I just really would encourage you to be looking at this, to be looking ahead, to figure out where we can take our vacations, to be able to take our vacations with ease, to be able to maximize our doctor's schedules and our hygienist schedules, to be able to set realistic goals that are truly achievable, to make our bonuses based on that, knowing what we're spending on the practice of all the numbers, and then being able to roll that out to our team. If this feels daunting, high five. Welcome, welcome to the world of business ownership.

where these things might feel daunting, but just know it doesn't have to be hard. I have a practice where we started working on this and they were so nervous because they were like, Kiera, we're doing an expansion. We don't know how we're going to be able to do this. And so what I did was I took it with them and we did a very conservative projections and we did a high-end projections. And what's crazy is they actually hit the high ends. But by knowing what we needed to produce, they were then able to go set the goals and the KPIs with their team.

They were able to easily track their metrics all the way along. And you put it in the spreadsheet. Where were we at based on where we projected? Why was it this way? We looked back at the trends. What were the low months? And what's crazy about doing this is it gives you confidence. Confidence you can pay the bills. Confidence that you're going to be able to pay for your team. Confidence that you know what to set your goals at and they're not just arbitrary. Confident that you can take vacations and not let the practice plummet.

So many doctors tell me, Kiera, I had a terrible December. And I'm like, well, that's because you didn't plan. You didn't plan out to take two weeks of vacation. And then we were trying to cram in $100,000, $200,000 worth of production into two weeks. Well, that can be tricky. Also, if you know this, we can strategically start planning in October, November, December, making block schedules where we know what production we're going to be bringing in when people's benefits are coming due and we're trying to get a bunch of treatment in. Like, let's not be chaotic. Let's be strategic of what we're doing and putting into our schedule so it's easy.

Kiera Dent (11:45.442)

We're able to help the most amount of patients and we're able to just get to our goals with ease. This is the type of stuff that lights me up. This is the type of stuff where I'm like, we can do this together. And that office this year, they're celebrating hitting their highest growth and they took off the most amount of time that they've ever taken off. And they were able to help more patients and bring on more team members. And all those decisions were very confident because they knew exactly what they needed to do. So I...

think everyone needs to do this. And if you need help, reach out [email protected] We have so many options available for you for consulting where it's online, where it's kind of like a systems and you go through all the 12 systems and you have a group that we every single week. And sometimes you're even getting one-on-one help to where you can add one-on-one calls and you can get individualized help, or you are in our full level platinum with us where you're actually coming to masterminds and leadership retreats. And we're working with your team one-on-one, whatever it is, there's, there's options for you. So

Reach out, but do this. I make all my offices do this. I work on it with them because I know if they've got the numbers, they're going to make much smarter decisions, better projections. And if you're like, Kiera, that's so hard. Phenomenal reach out because you're not meant to know how to run a business. You're meant to know how to do dentistry. And my job is to teach you how to do the business and to teach your team to do the business and teach you how to look at those numbers with confidence. So you're able to make decisions that you're confident about making.

That's why I have the job I do. I literally am obsessed and passionate about helping business owners learn their numbers, to be able to make smarter decisions, to be able to feel confident in their business, that it's not just a question of will I be profitable? Will I make money? Will I not make money? That's terrifying. You are an amazing clinician. Let's now make you an amazing business owner. Reach out [email protected] Get your projections there. Know what you need to do for next year. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#923: End of Year Crunch? No Need to Panic!
3 Dec· Dental A Team Podcast
Tiff and Dana spell out how to avoid the crunch-time that always seems to crop up each December. They give advice on how to find the just-right daily metric for your practice, the power of adding procedure codes, how to get the whole team rallied for the cause, and more.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:01.174)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. Dana and I are back at it today. We are bringing you some fantastic information today, if I might say so myself. Dana, thank you so much for being here with me. I know we both had calls. You've had a million calls.

a ton of clients and you had so many calls already this morning and you pop it on podcasts to just give away more information. So thank you for being here with me. Thank you for giving me this time this afternoon. What do you have going on this weekend? It's Friday for us right now. I don't know when this is dropping, if it'll be a Friday or not, but what do you have going on this weekend? Because I think the world needs to know. I was very excited and I'm going to need a picture of your outfit.

Dana (00:41.026)

Thanks, I'm super excited. We are going to PBR tonight. It's one of my kids' most favorite things and I will say in Tucson they do it up. They do get a lot of the top bull riders across the country. So my kids are pumped for that and indoor fireworks and country music. so we are pumped. I know, was like in my morning Friday five, like, yee-haw everybody, I'm super excited.

The Dental A Team (00:56.384)

Dang!

The Dental A Team (01:03.222)

Yeah, I'm excited. My sister and I went to PBR a couple years ago. It was up here in Phoenix and it was fun. We were honestly we went as like, I don't know, it's something to do. But we were like hyped by the end of the night. It was like two hours like 10, 11pm. And I was like, what else are we doing tonight? Like, where are we going? So I was like your kids so I get it. And my feet hurt because I wore her boots and that was the wrong idea. So it's fine. It's fine. Well, you have PBR. I have my

Dana (01:22.946)

Yeah, super fun.

Dana (01:27.746)

You

The Dental A Team (01:31.946)

tonight. You didn't get to hear that. I know. Mariah Carey's Christmas concert and I told the team this morning this is not meant to be political or offensive to anyone. This is just true from my heart. Mariah Carey is to me what Taylor Swift is to all the Swifties of the world. I am not. I I think Taylor's would just be fantastic. I do love her music. I think she's great but to me Mariah Carey is is that. So I'm excited.

Dana (01:49.584)

Yeah.

Dana (01:57.614)

I'll exchange pictures then.

The Dental A Team (01:59.958)

Yes, yes, we'll exchange pictures. You got PBR, I Mariah Carey, we've got it on lockdown. This is going to be fantastic night. I hope all of you are doing something fun, whatever day this might be, that you're listening to this. I hope that the weekend that we recorded this, you did one of those two things if you're here in Arizona. And really, we're looking at, I mean, we're looking at fun things towards the end of the year. This time of year,

is wild. I feel like this weekend specifically I've had like 16 different things come up that people are like, can you do this, can you do that? I'm like, my gosh, plus I fly on Sunday and I'm like, I can't cram anything else into the amount of time that I have remaining for the year and this is the crunch time, the end of the year.

where things just get really, really, really wild. And we really try to cram as much as we can into the time that we have. So personally and professionally, we start doing this, we start seeing practice, you know, schedules get a little wild. And I really want to talk about today, how to make the most of that. So end of year crunch, end of month crunch, but also Dana and I were talking and I want to not just talk about it for December, for the end of the year, I want to talk about it for

forever, for every month. How can we make sure that it doesn't get to the end of the year, the last two months of the year, that we're like, holy cow, guys, we've got $60,000, we've got to make up, we're behind. And I don't want you guys to get there. I don't want you to feel that crunch. I want you to be looking at numbers more succinctly throughout the year so that you don't feel that stress, but.

We do get there. We do get there sometimes during the year, during other months. And I want you to also be prepared for what that can look like. And Dana, you had just this really fantastic plan.

The Dental A Team (03:45.908)

that you've laid out that we use for a lot of our clients, all of our clients are doing it, where they should be. If they're not, slap on the wrist and talk to your consultant. Make sure you get it implemented. But I really want to hear, in your words, Dana, how you make sure that your teams and your doctors are constantly looking at those goals, that they don't have that weird crunch time, and they can accomplish what they're looking for.

Dana (04:08.067)

Yeah, and I think like you said, you start off by really looking at those numbers throughout the entire year. I think we set them oftentimes in November, December for the following year and then we're like, well, we set them, we know what they are, that's it. And that's great that you know what they are, but continuing to look at them throughout the year and really to continue to look at is there a gap in any of them? And then we are...

The Dental A Team (04:19.774)

Yeah.

The Dental A Team (04:23.178)

Yeah.

Dana (04:33.858)

pushing the needle or spreading the gap out for the rest of the year so that we are just doing our very best and we're staying on top of where we are in getting there.

Oftentimes when we set them in the beginning of the year, those are big numbers, right? They're big numbers and for the team to digest this, we walked through with a practice on our group consulting the other day and our consultant, Christy, just did a fantastic job of saying like, those are huge numbers and to team members sometimes we have to break it down into bite-sized chunks and what can we focus on every single day to get us there? And if we can take, let's say you set a $60,000 gap, if we can take a $60,000 gap and we can

The Dental A Team (04:49.62)

Yeah.

Dana (05:16.256)

break it down and say, guys, that is one crown a day. Boy, does that feel so much more doable to a team member than we've got to find $60,000. Right. And I love that you said not just in December, because December, like you and I were talking about, Tiv, is like a baby month this year, like where the holiday is placed and with the time off that happens in December and all the activities like December is such a tiny month this year. And so if we wait and we save and we say, okay, well, let's look at it in December, man, we have missed some

The Dental A Team (05:25.29)

Yeah. Yeah.

The Dental A Team (05:32.416)

Yeah.

Dana (05:46.16)

opportunities throughout the year and all the other working days that happened before we got to the month of December.

The Dental A Team (05:51.034)

Mm-hmm. Totally. I think that's brilliant and it's something that should be talked about like you said every day Really we should be looking at it especially when it's crunch time and I know I've had so many teams really rally At the end of the month when it is crunch time and not that they waited till the end of the month But they're like, okay guys like we're still needing this 10k Like where are we finding it today and teams will gamify it and they'll really rally around it

when they know what they need to gain, when they know how to win. So this kind of goes into that metrics conversation that we had on another podcast of really knowing how I can affect the metric on a daily basis. I love.

the idea of doing it and breaking that and what Christy said, like breaking a big goal down to something smaller. breaking that yearly goal down to quarterly, down to monthly, down to daily is huge. And I even have practices, I talked to one today that they were like, gosh, most of the days this week were fantastic, yesterday kind of sucked. But overall for the week, we were above goal. Fantastic. So it's from a monthly to a weekly to a daily. Like, as long as you're on track over the big haul, that's what matters.

I do have practices that almost focus too small and then I have practices that focus too big. The two big practices are like, okay guys, our goal is 250 this month and we're at 125, so let's keep going. It's like, okay, cool, but what else is left? And then I have practices that are like, we need $10,000 every day. So every day they're like, are we at $10,000, yes or no?

What they're not doing is what Dana's talking about is really looking at what was our goal minus what we've done minus what's scheduled, right? Divided by the number of days you have remaining because even if I'm at 12,000 of a $10,000 goal today, if I was at 8,000 yesterday and I'm not thinking about that now $2,000 gap between the two days, I'm $2,000 short at the end of the month and I'm like, wait, where did the money go?

The Dental A Team (07:47.338)

well, there's a gap somewhere that was missed. So we've got to look at all of those metrics and figure out every single day, my daily goal might change. I have a practice that I was like,

Just I Extended them that was hard to get out I extended them one year past what I they thought they could do I knew they could do it right But they had like a nine thousand dollar a day goal They had three hygienists and they had one and a half doctors had a nine thousand dollar a day goal and I was like No, you guys you guys can do 12 and they were like

No freaking way. And I was like, we're doing it. We're freaking doing it. I'm going to tell show you how I'm going to tell you how to get there. I'm gonna hold you accountable. We're gonna do it. And they did. But then next week, I get a text from the front office gal, the treatment coordinator and she's like, I'm sad to say that was really easy. And I think I know because you just didn't know what you were capable of because we weren't looking at the numbers before you had no idea that you were surpassing $9,000 on the regular.

Dana (08:24.813)

me.

The Dental A Team (08:48.694)

You guys were already doing it, you just didn't know. So I put that $12,000 in, blew your minds, and now you guys are like, wait a second, this was really easy, actually, if we could do more. You totally can with the right scheduling, with the right pieces put into place, but if we're not looking at it, we have no idea where we can go. So taking those pieces throughout the month, on the fifth day, you might see, hey guys, we're actually not, we're a little bit behind, we need to add $2,000 each day. Great, our 9,000.

$1,000 goal is now $11,000 until we get above that. But looking at it every day and making sure we do know what that gap is. Dana, you talked on another podcast about, like we said at the beginning of this one, how the little things that we do every single day can add up to a big thing. So even as far as you mentioned attaching all of the procedure codes, right? So what have you seen in practices that you've worked with or worked in where it's like, gosh, guys, we're only $500 short or something, like we're looking at it.

But then it comes down to those simple things. What are some areas that you feel like practices miss that are easily made up when they've got a gap like that? Like just attaching simple codes. What codes are you looking at?

Dana (10:00.524)

Yeah, x-rays for sure. Anything as far as adjunct services. Sometimes we're like, well, I'm just going to irrigate just this quadrant. Well, you irrigated them, right? Or bundling perio things so that our perio patients that get the best results also have laser or ozone or stellalight or all of the other perio adjunct services. Making sure that we're adding fluoride. Even I've got lots of doctors now that because fluoride helps crowns last longer are adding fluoride to all of their crowns.

they do the seat, they're administering varnish. Even coming up with, right, as we're seeing more of this fluoride pushback come out, you know what? There's a hydroxyapatite varnish. So let's have that in the practice so that even when we get pushback, there's still something we can do. So it really is just little, little things. And I use fluoride as an example because lots of patients can benefit from that or the hydroxyapatite alternative.

If we look at, say one hygiene day, average floor, will say is $30 for the varnish. We see eight patients in each hygiene column. If every hygienist even got 80 % of their patients, that's close to a thousand extra dollars every single working day. And it's something so small. You use the example of PAs and write PAs 12, $16. But if we're doing that routinely for all of our patients, that maybe we see a little bit something or maybe, you know, they're having some sensitivity here and we add that PA.

those things add up with the number of patients that we see each day. So little things like that really do have a huge impact.

The Dental A Team (11:36.16)

Yeah, I agree. I think the PAs are so easy. And I think even on like a limited exam, we'll have a limited come in and they'll do a limited and a PA. But then sometimes the doctor's like, can you get a bite wing of that? Then you did a bite wing too, right? So making sure all those are put in there. And then I thought how many times when I've done billing and gone back through and I've seen crowns, and I'm like, so many crowns and do we really not do build ups? Doc's like, we always do a build up. What are you talking about?

I'm like, well, we've never charged for a buildup. These patients are just getting buildups all over the place. And those are like $185. I've seen it all the way up to almost $300 for a buildup.

Dana (12:07.81)

Yeah.

The Dental A Team (12:17.174)

Making sure that every code is attached is insanely important, not just to the billing representative because he or she desperately wants that information, you guys, but also to your bottom goal. And when you come in and it's like, guys, we're so close. Or when I get the calls from the teams and they're like, we missed it by 2000. I'm like, well, where was the 2000? Where did you lose it? Was it in buildups or PAs or was it, know, two more, can we have done two more occlusal guards? Like, where does that look like? really

winning your month and knowing how you're going to get there is huge and then I think you guys talked you said on that group coaching call which I love because those doctors are just freaking fantastic and they have so many excellent questions and ideas that they're sharing but you guys brought it so granular as to like what is the thing that's going to get us there so we might be $1,200 short what is that so that's a crown

That's two occlusal guards. That's a handful of fillings for certain patients. Really looking at, where can we make that up? Where do we have time in our schedule to make that up? Do I have assistive time that if I had two night guards come through, so two occlusal guards, I could have the scans or impressions taken? Making sure that it's super applicable and that we can see the result very easily, I think is super key. And then also flip side, Dana, I have a lot of...

a lot of hygienists that I'm like, take the scan in your room. If this patient needs a night guard and occlusal guard, take the scan in your room and then get that credit over there as well. Do you have a lot of hygienists that are doing scans and occlusal guard scans, like full mouth scans to show teeth shifting, all those pieces? Are you seeing that a lot?

Dana (14:00.61)

Yeah, yeah, and I'm even seeing I had a hygiene team that they even started to build a whitening column in between their

re-care patients and they would both kind of just hop and run it and manage it together. And that was a fantastic boost in production. And sometimes too, is like doctors are hesitant. I just talked to another doctor and it was like, well, you know, I could do bone graft for membrane. And I'm like, why are you going to stop and think like, would this give this patient a better result? Maybe they're not interested in implant right now, but they didn't say no ever in the future. like, let's bone graft it and make sure that those bone levels are nice and healthy or why only popped a couple granules in there? No, that's a bone graft. So let's make

sure that we are accounting for it. So I think this is a team-wide thing. And if everybody can just be like, what is one little thing? What is one little thing that if I did consistently throughout my patient base, or if I added in one whitening patient, or combined as a hygiene team, we ran a whitening column, or our FDOT had their own column and they were doing sealants in a pediatric practice. Like what can we do? And there's oftentimes so many things. And if we put our heads together, we actually end up with this list and

The Dental A Team (14:37.78)

You opened it.

The Dental A Team (14:46.176)

Yeah.

Dana (15:07.44)

we're like, okay, well, actually, where do we start of all of these things that we can do?

The Dental A Team (15:07.946)

Yeah. Yes.

Yes, and putting your heads together on how do we implement this change moving forward and what's the verbiage to feel okay with it? Because I think also, we have a hard time sometimes charging for what we should get paid for. And we say constantly, charge for what you did, charge for what you did. So that means don't leave it off and charge for what you did, meaning don't charge the wrong code just because it feels better because it feels like less I know.

I love you all dearly, all of you who are doing this, but it needs to stop. Charging a pro fee for a perio maintenance, just do a perio maintenance. If this patient is a perio maintenance, if this patient has pocketing, if they have all the pieces that add up, they had SRP, they have all of those pieces, and you guys.

You guys, this drives me insane and I'm not a hygienist, so tell me if this is totally out of line. I am okay with it. Write me, email me, Dana, call me out on it now, I don't care. But it drives me insane when I see hygienists time over time over time say, okay, well, I'm going to do it this time. But really, it's if it's bad next time, still, I'm going to SRP, I'm going do a one to three or I'm going to go I'm going to have them do three profies. Because really, they need limited scaling. But I don't want to have

to tell them that or I think I can do it with the profis like my gosh I think we get caught up in not wanting to make a patient feel some certain way and we actually are doing them such a disservice in my opinion if I have perio tell me I have perio

The Dental A Team (16:42.036)

But I need limited scaling because I have had a body change. My physical body has changed because guess what? I'm older than the last time I was here. I'm on different medications or supplements or my breathing changed. I lost weight. I gained weight. I stopped sleeping at night. So many things add up to changes in our mouth that we don't give credit to and then we charge for the lesser because we feel bad. We feel guilty. That's my assumption.

That's me putting an assumption into the world. But for the love of all things that are holy, I implore upon you, charge for what you're doing. If you do a CBCT scan, charge for that. If you do a panel, charge for that. Charge for whatever it is that you're doing and stop charging for the lesser just to pad something. Now, if you want to charge it out and you're like, hey, I don't want to charge you for this, then do a write-off.

Do a write-off so that you see how much of that you're writing off and giving away as well. Because when you charge a pro fee, when it should have been a perio maintenance, you're not seeing that $60 to $100 difference of money that you're writing off every month that you guys are owed because you did the work. That's my soapbox, Dana.

Dana (18:00.854)

No, I will join you in that. I will agree with you. Same thing. I was even the classic hygienist who if you came with too much buildup, I would say I need to see you every three months instead of every six months. You're still a pro-fee, but you're just a heavier builder. And I only have an hour with you and I refuse to run 15 minutes into my next patient's appointment when I could see you more frequently. So...

Yeah, you do what your patient needs and if you're prepping the patient and if you're like, oftentimes you're like, well, they're just gonna be surprised or they're gonna be shocked that they need this this time. Well, no, because you build that into the entire appointment, right? You're saying these period charting out loud. You're making them say like, if you hear fours, hey, those are warning signs. If you hear fives, we're in a little bit of hot water territory here. So.

The Dental A Team (18:25.152)

Yes.

The Dental A Team (18:39.051)

Yeah.

Dana (18:49.64)

have the conversations that are needed to be had, do the services that are needed to be done, and bill accordingly.

The Dental A Team (18:55.57)

I agree. And doctors, the same thing goes to you for those buildups, for those x-rays, for those just to fix whatever it is. Charge for what you're doing. If you did a buildup,

put it in there. If it wasn't treatment planned as it was needing a buildup, then guess what? Have the conversation with the patient, hey, we weren't actually able to save it. We thought we were going to be able to, but once we got in there, it was a little bit deeper, a little bit bigger. And for the stability of this tooth and the longevity of your crown, the money that you are investing, we had to do a buildup.

Period. It's not that much, you guys. It is on the long run to you because if you're giving away 10 buildups, it's over potentially $2,000 a month, just charge for it. Do the right thing, charge for it. So that's not just a dig at hygiene. That is everyone. Charge for what you're doing, code for what you're doing. Make the best of your months by looking at what that gap is and how can we get there and then look back and think too.

How did we get here? Is it because we forgot to charge for things? We were missing things? Do we have open hours? Do we need to tackle something within the scheduling or the treatment planning? Really look at the trends of the practice, not just what can we add same day always. That's a huge benefit and something I want you to be looking at, but look at the trends that also got you there.

So take all this information our soapbox is done you guys we are stepping off of it. We are done for the day on that one. I hope you've gained some value there are some amazing tips within this we do work with clients constantly on these same pieces and if you have questions on what you should be charging for or shouldn't be we can help with a lot of those we don't know.

The Dental A Team (20:33.246)

the legalities for every single thing but we do know how to look really hard and find information and help you out as best as we can. If we don't, we know the people who can help you and we will always direct you in that direction. So [email protected] message us there, message us on socials, whatever avenue you want to take. Drop us a five star review below, let us know how much you loved this. Dana, thank you so much for joining me on my soapbox today and for all of the invaluable information that you had to share today. This has been so much fun.

Thank you. Awesome you guys can't wait to hear from you. I hope you have a stellar rest of your day and into the week or weekend whatever that looks like today while you're listening to this. We'll catch you next time.
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#922: Thanks For Being Part of a Dream Come True!
28 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
Here’s to the people who make your life incredible. Happy Thanksgiving!

Episode resources:

Reach out to Kiera

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.856)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and happy Thanksgiving. You guys, if you are new to the podcast, welcome. I'm so happy you're here. If you've been with me for a while, you know this to be true. I love holidays. I love holidays so much. I am so appreciative of holidays because I feel like it's just the time that like takes our autopilot life and puts it actually on pause and.

Thanksgiving is honestly my favorite podcast of the entire year. I have so many amazing things to be thankful for and it's always just special of what I'm able to celebrate with our team, celebrate with all of you and just give gratitude and thanks. And every year on Thanksgiving, my husband and I have it as a tradition. We listen to the podcast as soon as we wake up. And I really think it just centers me. It centers me of the gratitude that I have for each of you being a part of the Dental A Team family.

Whether you're an active client with us, you've been a client with us, you're a podcast listener, soon to be client with us, my gratitude for you is immense. This was just a girl's dream to be able to help dentists across the nation and their teams. It was a dream for me to help the dentists from Midwestern to be able to live thriving lives and to have their teams flourishing and living thriving lives as well.

for people who trusted me and took a risk when I didn't know what I was doing. even today, let me practice on them and make things up and bring things to them and to be open and humble and have fun and make me laugh and challenge me and encourage me is just truly a blessing. For you guys on the podcast to listen and to be raving fans and to share this with people, I don't take this for granted.

I know how blessed I am. I dreamed of having a consulting company where it was spanned across the nation, where we were able to serve and help people on this higher level. And it's the reality of the life that I'm living right now. And I don't take that for granted. And I'm so grateful and appreciative of all of you. I also hope that you today take time to thank your team. I think so often we can just go by the wayside and we can not necessarily give out that gratitude and that thanks for what we have. I realized that

Kiera Dent (02:04.902)

You can either see teams one of two ways. You can either see them as an asset or a liability. And I choose to see my team as an asset. I choose to see that they're brilliant, that they're smarter than me, that they're the ones who make the magic happen. They're the ones who love our clients so much. They're the ones who come up with the brilliant ideas. They're the ones who make the marketing. They're the ones who do the customer service calls. They're the ones who talk to potential clients. They're the ones who are figuring out the partnerships. They're the ones who make all this dream become a reality. They say teamwork makes the dream work. And I say teamwork.

and teens also make the dreams become reality. And so just having maybe a moment of pause and reflection today and maybe sending out some little love bombs to your team and to the people that make your life incredible. I believe that the secret to life and fulfillment is giving and gratitude. And if we can have that sense of gratitude, like today my bracelet, it's the grateful bracelet here. And to have that gratitude, to show gratitude in all that we have, I mean,

We are just truly so blessed to be alive at this day and age. We're so blessed to be able to have the technology and the teams and the resources and the life that we get to live. mean, gosh, life is just so magical. And I hope that you see it as magic. And I hope that today of all days, like you take that pause and be grateful for your family, for your health, for your friends, for your team, for your patients, for your community.

all these things that make you a person, all these things that make life magical, all those things that add fairy dust and sprinkles to your life. But just to maybe take a moment, maybe reflect, maybe write in your journal, I would encourage you and challenge you to write maybe 100 things that you're grateful for. If you guys want, if you're listening to this before Thanksgiving dinner, you can do it. I've done it in some teams and it's very fun where you put your name on the top of a paper. Shout out to our marketing gal, Eve. She gave me this brilliant idea and I've done it in teams and they absolutely love it.

But what you do is you put the person's name at the top of the page and then you send it around the table and everyone writes something that they're so grateful for that person for or something that they love about that person. And then it comes back to you you're able to read this little love note. I've done it in leadership teams. I've done it in full teams. And it's interesting because every time I do it, this is the piece of paper that is stuck up on the walls. This is the thing that saved. This is the thing that's on people's phone savers because to be reminded of that we're loved.

Kiera Dent (04:24.98)

is one of the greatest gifts that we can give someone else. So maybe do that with your team, maybe do that with your families, but really truly just showing gratitude today. like I said, Thanksgiving podcast is always my favorite podcast of just giving you guys a tip of gratitude, but also to take this time publicly to thank my incredible team. And I always do a shout out to each of my team members.

of a thank you to each of them. And so we just kind of will go through, I go through them from like when they were hired. And so that way it's just really fun. But shout out to the one and only Tiffanie Trader, the spiffy tiffy. has been with me for seven years and Tiff is someone that if you know her, you love her. Tiff just makes life fun. I feel like she's a beautiful yin to my yang. We believe that we were twins in another life. We just happened to get separated this year by a year or this round.

Tiff and I actually share the same birthday. We're just one year apart from each other. But I'm so appreciative of Tiff and the grit and the love and the determination she's had to come into a company where there was just a girl with a dream and she bought into that dream and she's run it and she's done it and she's consulted all across the nation and she served so many offices and she's on the podcast with me and she writes the newsletter. She just she makes it fun and she's been with me since the beginning and to have somebody that's really gone through all of it with me.

This is something I'm so grateful for. think when you're an owner, and a lot of owners will feel this way, when you have someone who's a ride or die with you that you know you can count on, is something that I think we might take for granted. And it's something that today especially, we don't take for granted. We don't take for granted those people that have made us who we are, that have helped us grow. Like, of course, we've had to bring ourselves to the table, but Tiff is someone who really has been there with me.

She's been a rock through so many things. She's been there through all of it with me. And I'm just so appreciative of her and her love and her dedication and her determination to be the best consultant she can be. She's gone through so many growths throughout the company and to watch her just grow and evolve and morph into this incredible consultant is something I'm so appreciative of and just grateful for her going on this fun ride with me. We celebrated seven years together this year and just excited for the next seven and what we can create and make and serve more clients on another level.

Kiera Dent (06:37.176)

So that's our one and only spiffy tiffy. And then gosh, like I think my next one is actually no BS Britt. Actually, I think I lied. I think it's Shelbi. Sorry, Shelbi. My order is like, I shouldn't have gone in order. I should just do you guys like in whatever order, but Shelbi, we'll go to Shelbi next. Shelbi, if you don't know Shelbi, you are missing out on one of the most incredible humans. Shelbi has the deepest love for every single person that comes her way. She makes me want to be a better human.

She loves our client so much. loves me so much. Shelbi has been my EA, our customer success, and literally the jack of all trades. Like that woman can fit into so many different areas. And to watch her blossom from when I first hired her by knocking on her door, she used to be my next door neighbor and she took care of my tomato plants when I was traveling so much to make sure they wouldn't die, to now taking care of me and our entire team. Shelbi is someone that I am so grateful for, for her love.

for her ease every single month in our one-on-ones. We always ask our team who should we celebrate and who should we like give kudos to for going above and beyond and without fail, Shelbi is the number one named teammate of all of our team consistently. Everybody loves Shelbi. Every person that meets Shelbi loves Shelbi. Shelbi is just someone who has a heart of gold, who works hard, who is like this woman loves tasks. She is the person I know I can count on 150 million percent to always follow through.

and deliver more than I ever expect. She keeps all the balls in the air. She never misses things. She truly just has so much passion and love and commitment to our company and to our clients. And I am so like eternally grateful that this girl took my awkward knock on her door and then the awkwardness of living as next door neighbors and working together and has just really blossomed into this amazing woman who I trust implicitly with every single thing. And I know she will always be the best example. She will always show up.

She will always love, she'll always care, and she literally will make everything beautiful, seamless, and smooth for every single person, and I'm so appreciative of her. Next up is Brittany Stone, no BS, Britt. Brittany is someone that has just truly grown and blossomed, and I love that she is my yin to my yang in the business. She's a consultant, so those of you who get her love her as a consultant. Britt also is our operations within the company, and to have somebody that I can rally with who is not afraid to...

Kiera Dent (08:55.64)

give me her opinion and to make sure in the most respectful way that we are really working on what's most important in the company. She's the brakes on the company. She tells me not to do things. She tells me to do things, but to know that I can be on the road and that our team is being led and guided and directed by somebody that I trust and respect in like beyond the beyond is something that I think is such a magical gift that a lot of people I don't think get to experience. And I'm so grateful for Britt. love her, her sass. love her.

her thoughtfulness, I love her directness, I love how she communicates to our team, I love how she thinks and processes, I love how Brittany is just someone who everybody loves, everybody wants to get to know Britt and she has such a quiet, gentle nature about her where she genuinely is just so loyal, she's so curious, she's so just wanting to be her best at all times, wanting to make our company just be the best that it can be and I'm just so.

So grateful to have somebody like that on my leadership team, personally and professionally, to have her work so closely with me, hand in hand, day in and day out, to have the conversations. She has grown me so much and just helped me see how great she can be in this role. And I'm so appreciative of her and just where she will fill in the gap. She's an incredibly brilliant consultant. She's a brilliant business and just someone that I feel so lucky to know. We have Ms. Dana is, gosh, Dana.

She just is incredible. She is that employee that you never have to worry about. never like they're always just doing more than you ever expected. Dana is such a steady Eddie for me. And she also has the freaking funniest stories of anybody like that girl does not travel as much as the rest of us do. And every time she travels, I don't know what it is. She comes back with the craziest travel stories of all of us and Dana with her consistency and her commitment to clients and her love and her true internal growth. Dana is a warrior.

And I just love her. I love her so much. I love who she is. I love her drive. I love how she makes me want to be a better person. Dana loves so deeply and she will forever continue to grow herself. She's the person that's the easiest for me to have uncomfortable conversations with because she just takes it. She gets it and she executes and implements. She's also the person who is constantly behind the scenes making things happen. She always wants another project. She wants to grow. She encourages me to work out. She encourages me to love my clients better. Dana is just someone who has this heart of gold that I feel.

Kiera Dent (11:20.15)

so ridiculously blessed is on my team, is an example to me, is someone like, and I don't get to talk to Dana as much as others, but I'm always watching Dana and I'm observing her and I'm watching how incredibly talented and gifted this woman is. And I'm just so grateful for her. We can not go without talking about Miss Eve. Eve is a, gosh, I think Eve, if we would not have met through Dental A Team, we would have found each other in some way in this world. Eve is one of the most incredibly talented marketers.

I've ever had. She's come into this company and she gets my vision and she delivers to me impeccable work every single time. I can tell Eve this is what my vision is and Eve makes it magic. She does it with so much grace and ease and she's so freaking funny. Like you should talk her about her hobby horse. This is a real thing. You should talk her about like all the fun things. She makes us laugh. She's like entertainment within our company and she's also somebody where I just love who she is. I love her outlook, her outlook on life. I love who she is as a person. I love what she stands for.

I love her journey. I love the humor she brings. And honestly, we call it the Eve adds her pixie dust, but we've made it marketing where it's the pixel dust to everything. So when you see beautiful things everywhere, Eve just puts her heart and soul into it. She's an incredible artist, an incredible designer, incredible marketer, comes with great ideas and her passion and love for marketing, for her family, for our company, for our clients, for our team.

is something that I am just awe inspired by and so grateful. She's in my life personally and professionally and that you guys all get to experience Eve through anything. She's at our monthly webinars. If you're not attending those or the Thirsty Thursdays, the third Thursday of the month, be sure to join us. Eve has taken that on. She grows herself, but gosh, this woman is just chef's kiss of beauty that she creates for our company and does it with so much grace and ease.

We also have Jacintha who's part of our marketing team and Jacintha has come she's from the Netherlands and I love Jacintha's grit, her determination. She's also super funny. She makes me laugh. But whenever we give you something a problem or a project, she is just like bloodhound on it and she will go she will drive, she will figure out how to do this. And I'm so appreciative of her grit and her stamina and the things that this woman does. She has come in with this

Kiera Dent (13:29.214)

unrelentless determination to be the best to figure out dentistry and when they present the two marketers never coming from dentistry, gosh, I am just amazed and wowed at the love, the passion, the grit, the desire to become the best and to be associated with two marketers. Eve and Jacintha, our marketing department is incredible. does all, Jacintha does all of our, all of our social media and so many of the designs you guys see out there.

That is you synthesis magic and she is just constantly making sure things are smooth and easy and I'm so appreciative of her. And then last but not least is Miss Kristy and Kristy coming onto our team and just being this amazing consultant that has love and dedication and determination and she just is so brilliant at what she does. She brings this sense of calm and ease and fun and I'm so excited for clients working with her and to get to work with her because this woman's knowledge is unmet.

compared to all of the other, like she just has this knowledge and this love of dentistry. When I was looking for our next consultant, I made this little wish list and I said, I want them to just have so much passion and love for dentistry. And Kristy has that and she has the knowledge and she's got the experience and she's just this, she just ignites and exudes so much love for what we have. And I'm just so, so, so grateful for her on our team. Our team is incredible and our team has just.

morphed over the years and I'm so thankful for those who have been a part of Dental A Team that have made us the great people we are. I obviously would be remiss if I didn't shout out my husband Jason. Jason's just, he's my ride or die. Jason has gone through so much. You guys should all be grateful the countless hours this man does with me early in the morning, late at night, letting me talk his ear off about the podcast and our clients and all the different things. And he's just constantly there for me I just love him and I'm so grateful for him. My coaches, Liz and Kareen and

my trainers and like all the different people who make me who I am, all of our sponsors, all the people that make us great, all the people that we have affiliates with, all the trainers, all like literally every single person, whether you're a client, whether you're a sponsor, whether you're a listener, whomever you are, you have this magic touch on my life that allows me to be able to be here to podcast with you, to do these pieces with you. And I'm so appreciative of all of you. I'm appreciative of you making.

Kiera Dent (15:45.274)

where we are in this world of dentistry, great. I'm so grateful that you love your patients and you love dentistry and you want to be the best you can be. And I'm here to say, go spread those magic love bombs, go do the magic today and tell someone, tell five people, thank you for what they do because it will not only fill their cups, but it will overflow you of just the love and the magic that you get to experience living this life today at this special.

specific time. with that, go enjoy your magical Thanksgiving. Go love on those family members. Go be grateful for the health that you have and to be alive in today's world. And thank you so much for being a part of the Dental A Team podcast. So much love. All the kisses, all the love. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.
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#921: Why Perio Calibration Matters (Even When You Think It Doesn’t)
27 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
This one's for the doctors and hygienists. Tiff and Britt discuss why perio calibration matters, how accountability on top of that improves practice-wide success, the right percentages your hygiene department should be reaching, and more.

Episode resources:

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:01.302)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. I am excited to help with you today with me, with us. Britt Stone, Miss Britt is one of our hygiene queens. You know, we have a couple of them on our team and occasionally I like to bring them in for some hygiene flow and some hygiene spaces. Now, Britt, today we are gonna talk hygiene, but I wanna do hygiene from doctors.

perspective and like doctors really getting a lot of value out of that space. So today's hygiene is a little bit different. Your hygienists can listen to this always as well. Obviously there's gonna be nuggets in there for them, but doctors, this is for you. Before we jump into my hygiene, I'm so excited for this one, my hygiene stuff, Britt, how are you? You just went on vacation and it was a little chilly, I agree, because we're from Arizona, anything under.

80 degrees is a little chilly. I get it. Tell me, where did you ladies go and how amazing was it?

Britt (00:56.382)

That was true.

Britt (01:04.513)

It was amazing. One, thanks for calling us Hygiene Queens. I think all the hygienists out there appreciate that. So we love it. But I went up to Washington, Seattle area. So out to Woodby Island. So a little island out there. Took the ferry over, enjoyed it. It was great. I mean, we're all Arizona girls that went. It was like a high school crew, all my high school friends that went for a vacation once a year. And so we went out of town, enjoyed some fall, enjoyed some cooler weather since we don't...

The Dental A Team (01:17.913)

Super cold.

Britt (01:32.695)

get as much of that here and had a great time.

The Dental A Team (01:34.351)

No, that's awesome. And you froze, because you were like, those islands, they get really cold no matter what time of year it is. They're chilly, because they're way up there. You're almost Canada in those suckers.

Britt (01:46.497)

Yeah, and it's windy and it was rainy because it's fall time, but I mean, yeah, it's, yeah, which makes it nice and green and it was gorgeous. We saw like a bald eagle. Amazing. So it was.

The Dental A Team (01:52.333)

in Seattle.

The Dental A Team (01:58.028)

to.

that's really cool. Well, I am excited that you got to go and I think that's super cool. I know you guys do your once a year trip and it's always something really, really fun and you get to just disconnect for at least a weekend. So I was happy to see you're out there. Yeah, I love it. I love it. And I love, I do love my hygiene queens and I think hygiene is obviously an imperative space.

for dentistry and today's topic, it's actually, it's serendipitous, know, things always happen and come up. But the other day, my partner was asking me, he said, because he's a financial advisor, so he's always thinking numbers and he advises a few dentists. And so he's like picking my brain for things. And he's like, how much do dentists actually make?

off of a cleaning, because like he'll go in for his cleaning and then come out with like all of these financial questions for me and I'm like, I'm very smart, you like I'll walk you through it. Yeah, so I'm like, nothing. He's like, what do you mean? What do mean they make nothing? And I was like, they make nothing. Like you're not, you are not going to be profitable off of strictly re-care appointments. And so I literally like, that was my initial response was like nothing and like walk away, right? And he's like, no wait, tell me more. And I'm like,

Britt (03:22.275)

all the things and then eventually nothing.

The Dental A Team (03:25.539)

Yeah, and so I was like, okay, fine, I'll break it down for you. Let me tell you all the things that go into a hygiene appointment and that cost analysis per hour and why it's so important that a hygienist does 3.3 times his or her rate of pay and can produce 30 % of overall production for the practice because if they're not, that department is not profitable for the company. And the non-profitable space of the company

is an issue, right? And it's not to say hygiene that, know, we're never gonna say do things you don't wanna do or squeeze your appointments or do more. And like, that's not who we are. It's really just about finding the spaces where we can create more value for our patients utilizing the tools at our fingertips and creating more profitability for the company because for Dental A Team we believe that the profitability leads to reinvestment back into.

the patients and the practice. So we cannot reinvest back into our patients' experience and all of these, you digital workflows that everybody's trying to do, these new x-ray machines, the scanners, the cavitron tips, guys, like those pieces of things and, and cool lasers and all of these things that you want even for your hygiene space, those are reinvestments back into it. So that profitability creates the space to be able to do that. And doctors today, I really wanted to walk through that. His question the other day was just like,

my gosh, like, this is something that as a consultant and as a dental professional, this is one of those spaces that to me is just like, I'm like, why would you even ask that? Like that was, that was a weird question. Like, obviously it makes nothing. And then I'm like, you want me to walk you through it? Okay, this is one of those spaces that I think people know that they don't. And really taking an analysis and a look doctors at your hygiene department and how you're influencing that.

as well and making sure that you're staying on top of it. think hygienists are incredible. I think dental teams are incredible. I think doctors are incredible human beings. But I think a lot of dentists, a lot of doctors are like, well, they're hygienists. Like you've got this. You've got this. You do the periapart. You do that, which I totally agree with you guys, right? You are in that world. You are in the gums, right? You got the gums. I'm gonna give you that world, okay? My doctors.

The Dental A Team (05:48.642)

you diagnose the decay, the things that need to happen, like you are in that world way more than anybody else is. So for hygienists to be the lead on perio and periodontal pieces, whether it's a routine cleaning or sky's the limit, that makes sense to me. But my doctors who pull so far out that they don't actually know what's going on over there anymore, which...

That doesn't happen for anybody out there legally who's listening. That doesn't happen. But when we're not calibrated, or my doctors, I've had so many times a doctor that's like, yeah, I think they'll be fine, maybe a debridement. And the patient gets over, and the hygienist is like, five millimeter pocket. I'm like, no, he said a debridement. I guess we've already treatment planned it, so now we have to do a debridement. My hygiene team is upset.

Britt (06:15.165)

Yeah.

The Dental A Team (06:40.269)

I really wanted to talk periocalibration today and Britt, I wanna speak to the doctors specifically, hygienists too, and if you're listening to this and your doctor doesn't listen, like share this one, but go back and do these things with your doctor too. But Britt, from a hygiene standpoint, like how does periocalibration with your doctor, how does it positively influence your experience as a hygienist to...

obviously give your patients the best experience, but how does that influence your experience as a hygiene team member within a practice when you guys are more calibrated like that?

Britt (07:13.537)

Yeah, mean, is big, right? When it comes down to it, we need to have a standard when it comes to perio that we all agree on. It's doctor-led, right? And then someone's got to ensure that that standard is actually happening. And that's where doctors don't get so disconnected from it that you can't recognize when a hygienist is not following the standard that we've all agreed upon or that you have set forth and you want that level of care provided for your patients. That's where...

You know, as a hygienist, I love a doctor who trusts me. And you know what? You trust me because we are calibrated and you trust my opinion and you double check it and that trust continues to be there because we continue to be calibrated on how we treat our patients. And if we are not, then great, have a conversation and let's address it and let's reset things. mean...

We're all human beings. How many of us have a habit that slowly over time, gradually changes a little bit? It can happen. So we need to help each other, right? Keep that standard of care that we want to provide to our patients. And sometimes it goes both ways, right? I want that doctor double checking, spot checking things to ensure that that quality is there. If there is a question, great, let's have a conversation about it.

If doctor comes to me and says, hey, like question something, then like, great, let's have a conversation about it and let's recalibrate and let's get back on track with each other and get in line so that we ensure that the quality of care that we're providing to our patients is what we want it to be. So I think for doctors, right, anything we do, and even when we work with people on front desk items, it's like, well, how do I make sure that that's happening? Someone's got to spot check. There's gotta be accountability somewhere.

Clinical is where doctor needs to be strong accountability. Office manager is more strong accountability for front desk and doctors accountable for office manager to ensure things are getting done. So there has to be checks and balances. If you just let someone go, that's how one day you realize or you have a switch in hygienist and your new hygienist is like.

Britt (09:17.347)

What's been going on over here? I'm having to work real hard and I'm having to have a lot of conversations and hard conversations that are just tough for the practice all around to have to talk to a patient about, this is what the hygienist did for the last 10 years. Here's what I've seen today and we need to do something different. And those are just tough conversations to navigate. They can be done, but we don't want to get in a position where we need to do that.

The Dental A Team (09:43.637)

Totally agree. think that calibration piece you're talking about and the accountability on top of that is huge. And I think there's a couple of, know, step gaps that are put in there for that situation. And I want to implore upon all my doctors listening today that standards and metrics are set based on everyone.

Like it's a pool of people that the information is taken from that says we should be three to 3.3 times your rate of pay. You should be about 30 % of your overall production. So these standards are set based on multiple people being looked at, right? Multiple practices. So don't forget that because I know a lot of the pushback I get from a lot of teams, a lot of doctors, when I go into consult them and I'm looking for these pieces is what you don't know my patient base. Okay, and there are, I do have a few practices. I've got,

a practice out in Pennsylvania who was like right next to a university, right? So he's got a young patient base, like yeah, your period is gonna be a little bit lower, but it's still there. And he had a new hygienist come in and she's like, he's like, my gosh, my period percentage went up. I'm like, yeah, because it's still there. It just wasn't being diagnosed before. So he fell into that situation where we were like, well, know, okay, fine. And I'm like, fine, it's college kids. Hands in the air, I'm giving it to you. Fine, totally fine.

switch up a hygiene and she's like, no, she's got perio blocks all over the place because it's still there somewhere. I've got an office in Utah who's similar. They're in a younger area. There's a couple of colleges in that area, right? But they've got younger families, they've got younger patients, and there isn't a lot of perio in that area, but he's still hitting like 18 to 22 % with a non...

Perio involved area so that 30 % isn't super difficult to hit as long as the perio diagnosis is being done so Doctors when you're listening to this and you're like, okay, but like where does this standard come from? It comes from everywhere. It comes from everyone. This is across the country standards that 30 % I like it because it keeps everything in the threes I want 3.3 times your rate of pay and 30 % of my overall production should come from hygiene now

The Dental A Team (11:57.565)

If you're not seeing that or when you do the analysis, which is super easy, you guys, I want you to go in and do this. If you don't know how to do it, we're gonna tell you in a sec. If you're not doing it, I would do it every single month and watch your perio constantly or watch your hygiene department constantly. So realistically, all you do is you take your hygiene production. So what did all of your hygienists do for the month?

and divide that by the overall practice production, and that's gonna give you your hygiene percentage for your practice. Most practices, when they're not looking at it, when they're not tracking things like this, and they're not truly calibrating on hygiene department items on Perio, most practices are anywhere from 14 to 20 % on average, from what I've seen from my practices. They're on the lower spectrum because they're just not looking at it. We're just doing that hygiene mill where best...

know, backwards to the beginning of this where I was like, we don't make anything. Like that's where you're at, that 14 % rate and 18%, like doctors, you're working your tail off to make up that gap. So you should be covering 70 % of the goal, but typically doctors are closer to like 85 % of the goal and they're like, tch, Brett, why am I so tired? Like don't wanna do this anymore. I'm like, all right, let's look over here. So calibrating on those pieces is huge.

because you want your hygiene team to all be diagnosing it as similarly as we possibly can. You will have hygienists who have been there for a long time, but aren't getting a lot of new patients. Their perio diagnosis is gonna be a little bit lower, because they don't have the opportunity. And that's okay, but overall across the board, your hygiene department should be diagnosing enough perio to be getting you to that 30%, because based on the statistics of the country, we have enough perio in

you know, the people here in the general populace to account for that in every in every practice. So watch those numbers. then, but I think maybe speak to some more for me, from hygiene perspective, how the doctor and the hygiene department really truly calibrate on those. then, like, that's one space, right? The numbers is a space of accountability, office managers can do that.

The Dental A Team (14:13.546)

face real easily, let the doctors know and you can also watch your treatment plans if you're not getting treatment plans for perio, like you can start digging into that. But then from an accountability point chair side, like what is it that your expectation is for that doctor, that dentist in the chair with that hygiene department? What do you want that to look like?

Britt (14:33.825)

Yeah, when it comes to diagnosing perio, right? Our hygienists do a great job in helping to evaluate things, see the big picture and relay that information to you. You need to verify the information. I'm not saying go through and do a whole perio charting, but check some of those numbers, check those deeper areas to see, we getting the same reading?

Do I agree? Is this the diagnosis that I want to make as the doctor? Because you're the one that's making the diagnosis. And if so, awesome. If you're off a little between the two of you, then it's like, all right, maybe it's time to do a little calibration, which can even be going through, taking a team member, period charting, seeing what we come up with. Are we pretty close with each other? Are we way off? Do we need to go through and look at some of the clinical skills for that team member?

and evaluate. And sometimes it might be doctor or hygiene clinical skills, right? Like that's what's like, all right, let's work together on it because doctors don't do it all the time. But the more that you do it and the more that you're checking, you're going to keep your parietal skills up and you're going to keep your team calibrated and accountable on those things. And if you're not agreeing on something, hey, if it's just off a little bit, like great, go for it in front of the patient, but come back to it and know that it's something that we need to address and we need to talk about to calibrate and evaluate.

And that calibration goes both ends, right? Sometimes, you know, it's not diagnosing what's there. And sometimes it's been a little too aggressive, right? So it can be both ends that you're helping to manage and keep everybody in line. So I think doctors, if you're not spot checking, but you're making the diagnosis of perio, spot check it and know what's going on there and validate that, yep, I agree with what's going on.

The Dental A Team (16:17.322)

totally agree and that comes back to what makes me think of like no matter what, you're the only one doctors who can diagnose. And so if that diagnosis is off, it's not what it should be in either direction. It should have been perio and it wasn't caught or it wasn't perio yet and it was diagnosed as perio, that falls back on you. So I wanna scare you with that. Like I want you to be afraid of allowing someone else to truly diagnose with.

Britt (16:25.058)

Mm-hmm.

The Dental A Team (16:44.046)

for you, right? We're diagnosing as your support team, we're diagnosing with you or code, we're co diagnosing, we're saying this is what I'm seeing. Do you agree? So your hygiene team is like, I'm seeing some deep pocketing there, I explained to them that it could be a deeper cleaning that we might recommend. Like, that's, you know, the verbiage. And I just want to say that to remind you guys not to get so comfortable that you forget

that it is your license, it is your responsibility. And I love hygiene, I love support teams, I love all of them. And I'm not, I don't think there's many people, if any, out there who are just out to get something or do something wrong or inaccurate, but it does happen. We get sloppy, we get tired, we get fat, quick, we're like, gosh, we've gotta go, we've gotta go, and we start missing things. And so it's just that.

where you guys are looking out for each other and you're truly, truly just spot checking and double checking, a quick PSR. But I did have a practice for it as you're talking, I'm thinking of them. One, a lot of new patients right now are ending up on doctor schedules because our hygiene schedule is chock full and people are forgetting to do their new patient locks in hygiene. So don't forget to do that.

But a lot of those new patients, or I do have a lot of practices that prefer like a cosmetic approach to a new patient and a full mouth series, like scans and all that. So they put it on doctor's schedule first. That patient's gotta go over to hygiene. And in a patient's experience, going over to hygiene for the correct procedure, instead of going over to hygiene another day to be diagnosed to come back another day, creates a way better experience. So doctors knowing too, how to diagnose

what your hygiene department's gonna want from your chair is massive. I do have a practice that recently did exactly what you were talking about, Britt. They had the team in the back and they're doing all the probes together, the hygiene team and the doctor, because the hygiene team was like, what is happening? Like his probes are 10 times deeper than what I'm getting. And they realized they were reading the probe depths differently on the probe.

The Dental A Team (18:56.02)

and they had to buy all new probes because they couldn't calibrate on the probes that they had. They could not come to an agreement because it was one of the generic ones, know, where there just wasn't, there weren't a lot of lines. So was kind of like pick and choose what the long line meant, you know? And yeah, and it was impossible for this team to truly calibrate on that probe. And so they replaced all the probes with one that had smaller lines, that had more of the lines for the depths.

Britt (19:11.094)

at a time.

The Dental A Team (19:25.668)

And then they were like, and the doctor was, you know, and it was the doctor that was off is what we'll say, like, whatever, they came to an agreement, but the hygiene team was like, I don't know what's happening. And so they did exactly that. ran a test and where they were like, we've got to figure this out. And so they had to replace the probe. So it's not always to like, you're wrong. Sometimes it's like this, just this tool is not working for me. And I need a better tool, especially with, I mean, I'm not a hygienist.

I've never probed a patient because I'm not allowed to, but I can't imagine this like giant black line, right? That's just supposed to be so many depths and you're going in and being like, it's about this. So I get it. I would require many more lines on that sucker, but that's what it made me think of. So it is truly out there, you guys. It's not just you. You're not like some special case that did something wrong.

Everyone's doing this and everyone needs to do this. So really truly in order to make sure that you're calibrated, it's gonna take, Britt, you mentioned it, being on the same page, coming up with what you want, those parameters. Yeah, the standard, exactly. What is that standard? What's class one, class two, class three? Referral. What's omega class four? What are these standards and how are we going to follow them?

Britt (20:34.253)

this.

Britt (20:42.039)

Yeah.

The Dental A Team (20:49.253)

Calibrate on the diagnosis, not just what those are, physically, are you diagnosing the same? Are you getting the same probe depths? And really practice that. Do spot check PSRs on some patients as they come through. And if you are off and your trend is like, I'm off more than I'm on, start practicing with your team and really look at, is it the tool? Is it the person? How can we calibrate this? And look at your numbers, you guys.

Office managers can pull these numbers, they should be looking at them in my opinion, every month to ensure that we are reaching those percentages that we really truly want and that our hygiene department is paying for itself. And I hope your financial advisors too are thinking about that, like literally it pops into his head just because he has appointments with the clients or he goes and gets his teeth cleaned and it pops in. But I thought it was really cool because I'm like, gosh, that's just not something that I think all people think about. So I want you guys to go do those things.

Britt (21:29.155)

I'm

The Dental A Team (21:45.211)

Find your standards. If you've set standards, go back through them again. But I would say, I think every, I think once a year, mandatory. And maybe even every six months.

Britt (21:56.043)

Yeah, I almost even say quarterly. You should be reviewing cases together, honestly, and depending on, right, sometimes you might need to actually like pull out team members, calibrate on actual doing like probed ups to see where you're at. And sometimes it's just pulling cases and looking at it. So at least quarterly go through some cases to make sure you guys are calibrated.

review our perio standards to make sure we're on the same page and that there's no questions. The more turnover you have, the more often you should be reviewing these things. But even if it's hygiene department with doctor or quarterly reviewing things and also with that, not just perio, you can look at some preheating, right? Bring in some calibration on those things as well for the hygiene department are huge. And I love what you said about the perio probes. Usually doctors get the crappy ones. They get the old ones.

The Dental A Team (22:45.915)

Mm-hmm.

Britt (22:46.723)

and the hygiene gets the new ones. So yeah, thanks for everybody's got the same tools we're working with.

The Dental A Team (22:48.443)

So sure.

Yeah, that's so true. I love that, I love that. Go do those things, you guys. Go do those things. Make sure your standards are set. Review them as a team. I love quarterly, I would say at least quarterly. Spot check constantly. Always be comparing your probe depths to your hygiene department. Calibrate when needed. Buy new instruments when needed. And then always watch your numbers. Make sure that the standards are there for you guys. And you may have that patient base that doesn't have as much perio and that's okay.

Let's see what you do have and if it makes sense. As always, reach out, [email protected] if you need more information or if you need help diving into it or you're just not sure what to do or you need more ideas, like whatever it is, just reach out to us, we're here. Britt, thank you so much for today. I love picking your hygiene brain and I think it was just a fantastic one for doctors to really see how they can lead and guide the hygiene department from the forefront. So docs, I hope you go do these things, enjoy it, love it.

Let us know how much you accomplished with your hygiene department. We love hearing from you. Drop us a five star review below. As always, we like to know that this hit home for you. Everyone, thank you so much. Britt, thank you. We'll see y'all later.
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#920: Book Club: Right Person, Right Place, Cheaper Cost
26 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
Kiera and Britt review Who Not How: The Formula to Achieve Bigger Goals Through Accelerating Teamwork by Dan Sullivan. The theory is to consider how much time you’re spending on tasks that would be done better and cheaper, and give you more time for other tasks that only you can do. Kiera and Britt give examples of how this can work in a dental practice as well as your personal life.

Find the full book club rundown here!

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.92)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am pumped. I have the one and only Brittany Stone on the podcast with me for our book club. Britt, how you doing today?

Britt (00:10.986)

I'm doing great. book club day is always fun. tell you, I know people like wish they could be part of our actual live book club with Dental A Team. I've heard it from clients before, but we've got a pretty good one.

Kiera Dent (00:18.711)

you

Kiera Dent (00:23.638)

We do. And Britt, we are thinking of shaking up our book club for 2025 of adding in a little more fiction. I'm not sure how you guys feel about that. So be sure to email in. Do you want us to solely stick with dental books? Do you want us to cut the book club? Or do you want to roll into our fiction? Britt has been banned from choosing the ones Britt and I book club on, which are very dicey topics. We will not even share the ones we book club on. They're not bad. They're just

very very very charged of I don't know it's not even like politics

Britt (00:55.114)

They make you think that there's some of those like ethical or different things that you're like, hmm, what do I think about that? So it's more of like stretching the mind on things, not like bad books.

Kiera Dent (01:03.241)

Exactly.

Kiera Dent (01:07.608)

Exactly. No, no, I should clarify that it sounded like you were like reading these steamy books. No, we just like the ones that challenge our ethical minds and make us question. It's kind of like those like if you think about I remember there was a one like the dad, the train person and the tracks are there and he hears this little boy and it's like you could either save your child or you can save a train of 500 people. What are you going to do? Like I hope and pray I'm never in that position, but Britt loves to bring these juicy ones up like that.

We're not even going talk about it because I would cry. Luckily, I don't have a child, so I wouldn't even have to make that decision. That is the one benefit of failed IVFs. We're fine.

Britt (01:45.888)

Hey, you know, you got nieces and nephews. It must be a family trait. I've got one niece that she was asking her mom at Sunday dinner when our family was together, would you save me or the dog? So, you know, she does love the dog.

Kiera Dent (02:00.03)

I mean, I would. Britt, would you save me or Bertie?

Britt (02:06.128)

So you want to know what I told my niece and here's why I just get like we'll get back to the book. Don't worry guys. It's a tangent. I Like I told my niece to give her a hard time and like well you couldn't walk and get yourself out of the house The dog might get lost you're you're smart enough to help yourself, but the dog may not so

Kiera Dent (02:11.478)

sorry.

Kiera Dent (02:24.413)

What if I'm like stuck in bed Britt like decrepit I can't move and birdie is birdie who are gonna save then?

Britt (02:33.781)

Both.

Pick them up. One in each arm, let's go.

Kiera Dent (02:40.701)

Well, on that note, that's how our book clubs usually shake out. So maybe, maybe one day, Britt, we might actually host a live book club. If you guys want that, let me know. We could do like a live webinar style and have you guys come give the book. Let me know if you'd be interested in that. I don't know if I don't know, we might do it. might not let us know if you're interested.

Britt (02:51.231)

Yes.

Britt (02:59.625)

I don't know if that's fun or not. It's kind of a nerdy thing. We know you guys like your dental nerds out there You're listening to us and you're reading books with us. So maybe it's interesting

Kiera Dent (03:07.916)

Maybe, maybe you'd want to. So let us know, email [email protected] Let me know. There's two things I'm dying to know. One, should we stick with business books for next year? Two, I lied, I want three things. This is how I roll. Britt knows it's going to turn to three. Two, should we keep the book club for 2025? And three, would you want to attend a book club live with us? Cause I could even do a live podcast. So let us know if you want to do that. One, should we change to fiction?

Two, should we keep it going? And three, do you want to attend a live book club with us? Let us know. Email in [email protected]. If I hear from none of you, we're eliminating the book club and Britt and I are just going to do our own ethical dilemma ones on our own that you'll never know about. But we're here for it if it's serving you, that's ultimately the podcast is for you. And just want to say thank you all for being our listeners and part of our Dental A Team podcast family. We're hoping several of you actually join our Dental A Team in-person family.

Britt (03:48.032)

I

Kiera Dent (04:00.792)

Speaking of meeting us in person, next year, 2025, we are releasing business and leadership events. They're happening. We're super freaking jazzed to meet a lot of you. It's part of our platinum consulting now. So be sure to reach out if you're interested, if you want to meet us, they're going to be incredible. call it like, basically these events are going to be fun because it's Dental A Team, of course. They're a day and a half on a Friday and a Saturday. And I call them like, we're stripping it down to the bones of your business.

to literally get down to what's really going on. Let's figure out what the issues are and then let's make you a map of clarity when you leave and it's for doctors and OMS to come to. So that way doctors, you don't just come and get jazzed up and then have to go get your team on board, but you literally can come and be with us in person. So Britt, Tiff, Dana, myself, Kristy, all of our consultants, you're gonna meet a lot of the Dental A Team in person. So one, if you wanna meet us, come join us. But two, I really think it's an incredible opportunity to...

basically like mastermind with other doctors, like mastermind so cliche and we're actually doing it a lot differently and it's built on your life. It's built on your business. We're having you really like, like I said, it's like a full autopsy of your practice in front of other offices to where we can give you the nuts and bolts of what you need to do to be successful and to have your dream life and your dream practice. so we're super excited. We're going to do this every quarter.

But two in-persons next year. So reach out [email protected]. and I are pumped about it. Tiff and I are giddy. We have been dreaming of doing this for a few years. So there is limited spacing. So before end of year, be sure to get in. I would love to have you be a part of it. And prices do go up in 2025. So be sure to get in in 2024, because I like to save you money. And it's also a great tax write-off. So if you've been thinking about it, you've been wondering if I should do consulting, the answer is stop thinking and start deciding and execute. Let's make 2025 thriving rather than surviving.

So Britt on that, Who Not How? This is actually excellent. The book is Who Not How by Dan Sullivan. Dan Sullivan makes me like have a good time, because I actually met Dan Sullivan in real life. So that was really fun. It was awesome. And this book is really about, instead of thinking about how do I do this myself, who can I hire, who can I elevate out to be able to do this faster and more effectively? And honestly, Britt, as I...

Britt (05:52.448)

You

Kiera Dent (06:16.684)

I didn't even mean to tie these together, but think about a consultant. Like, why are you trying to run your practice on your own? Why are you trying to rally your team? Why are you trying to figure out how to run this practice successfully when literally there's the Dental A Team consultants, there's other consultants as well, they can do it better, faster, more efficiently than you can. Why are you spending your time? And so even for this, like Britt, goes back to the book club of buy back your time. If you know, you're hourly. like, let's do what's a general dollar per hour for.

a usual Dr. Britt. Like let's not go high end, not let's not go at low end. What's usually a dollar per hour for a dentist.

Britt (06:52.0)

Well, and they say even go from yearly. So like, what's a yearly salary for a dentist? Let's say, you know, we know our dentists do a lot better than this. But let's start with an easy number just to make it simple. And let's say 100,000. We know you're doing more, but let's say 100,000 to make easy math.

Kiera Dent (07:09.684)

I hope you're doing more. If you're not doing more than that, you should definitely still call because, our doctors are usually doing two, three, 400,000 take home that that's like on the low end as well. have some doctors taking home in the millions, which is great. And I, I geek out about that. I don't care about your number. care about your life. And we ultimately build your, your take home pay based on what you want your life to be. So, okay. So if you are making a hundred thousand, if you are doing a task that's below that hundred thousand dollar a year mark,

Britt (07:17.535)

Yep.

Britt (07:30.495)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera Dent (07:39.562)

you should be delegating it out. And like that's the whole idea between buy back your time and who not how. And I think like a really easy analogy on this that I actually like I tested this Britt. I don't know if I told you this, I tested this this summer and my husband, he's been wanting to get some projects done. Like literally Britt, I wanted him to figure out there's a 457B plan there's, which was gonna save us a lot on taxes from his perspective.

and there were some other things he wanted to do. There were different positions, like that. just had all these different projects he wanted to do. So this summer I decided to be a helpful wife and I thought about it I'm like, he is freaking mowing the lawn every single week. And he's always telling me like, here, I have to work on the yard. So I can't do all these projects. So I just hired a lawn care company. knew what Jason's hourly was. I knew what his salary was. And not to say that Jason can't do it because Jason loves doing the lawn. Like he really does. He says he enjoys it.

But I didn't, I didn't even tell him. I just wanted to test this theory of buy back your time and who, not how, and like, does this really work? So we hired this lawn care crew because our lawn literally looked terrible. So I had a good edge that way because I don't know what happened. My family's a lawn business team and we could not get this grass to grow this year. I hired them, I kid you not, we had this lawn care crew for two and a half months. Okay. So I didn't have them for a long time in those two and a half months. Jason got his 457B plan set up. He got this whole retirement thing done.

He got, like, there were so many projects on his list that Jason just checked off and he's like, man, like, yeah, I got this scheduled. I got this scheduled. And I told him at the end when he's like, we should get rid of the lawn care crew. I said, yes, like our grass is dead at this point. And it became fall. So I was like, it was an easy cancellation. But I said, is it crazy that I think they charged me, I think they were $35 to come and mow our like teeny tiny backyard. A week is what we were paying.

but my husband was making more than that. And so I was like, let me just try this experiment. was like $200 a month is what we were paying for it. And yet that 457B plan is exponentially, that's a $23,000 piece for $250. And like, this is the whole principle of like, when we eliminate those projects that we can and delegate them out, you're able to buy back so much of your time, who not, how, like, how are we gonna figure out how to mow the lawn and do all these things? And I know that sounds like something so funny.

Kiera Dent (09:57.144)

But it's crazy because when you have the time available to do it and you're not trying to figure out how to do it all, you actually can grow exponentially. So thinking back to the doctor trying to figure all the pieces out, that's actually where I think a consultant is a great bang for your buck because one, we put production on your schedule. Two, we reduce your overhead. Three, we take care of your team for you. Four, we have all the secrets of how to get there and we'll just share every one of them with you. And we cost less than what it's going to cost you to bring a whole employee into your practice. So.

I mean, it wasn't intentionally meant to be a consultant plug, but I think like even the math for our logical people, the math, math, the math's really well of how to do this. And it's really thinking of how can we stop thinking of how I can do this myself and who, but Britt, you're my financially savvy person. You're the person who's like, figure it out. I can do this. What's your take on this book club? Cause I did the, I ran the experiment. Jason's like a freaking penny pincher, which is fine. Like it's great to have that.

I just was curious if we'd actually get things done if he didn't have to do it, and he did. So I ran the experiment and I saw it worked, but Britt, what's your take? Let's rally on our book club of back and forth.

Britt (11:01.207)

Yeah, and I like looking at what it costs right and what you're making and what you can outsource to someone else and like I pick a hundred thousand because it's easy to multiply I know in a 40-hour workweek it's 50 bucks So if you're making double that triple that quadruple that whatever it is It's easy math to do to see what you could be making right with your time versus what you're paying out to someone else So you said what it costs 35 bucks or something for them to come mow your lawn

How long would it take Jason to do that job?

Kiera Dent (11:31.65)

So usually would take Jason about an hour to an hour and a half. Cause like he just piddled out there and like then he'd go pick the weeds and then he'd do this and then he'd do that. So he's usually out there for like an hour to two hours. But what was actually happening is I think it was more the mental real estate time, not just the actual time on it because he's like, I got to get the lawn done. I've got to get the lawn done. every night that was mental real estate in him too, outside of the actual time that it was taking him. So that's why he wasn't getting any of his other projects done because he was saying,

Britt (11:46.228)

Mm.

Kiera Dent (12:00.16)

I need to get this 457B plan done, but yet the higher real estate was the grass that doesn't stop growing that he knew he needed to get out there. So I'm like, yes, hourly, he was out there for like an hour and a half, two hours, which if we do the 50 bucks, that's a hundred dollars. We're only paying 35. It's still a net positive, but it was also the mental real estate that I'm like, let's just check up at least like one to two more hours a week that Jason was stressed about it, trying to figure it out, going to Home Depot to get the blah, blah, whatever he was buying.

Britt (12:16.916)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera Dent (12:28.012)

Like let's just say on an average week, let's not be over the top, but let's say it's two hours every single week. That's right there. If we're 50 bucks, that's $100 a week and it's 35. That's $65 of extra time that we bought and your time's worth more than that as well.

Britt (12:45.598)

Yep, and you're doing the higher value tasks agreed here, right? Like whether it's the time or it's the mental energy to go do those tasks that are definitely a higher value. So for our penny pinchers out there, sometimes it's like, like is it really worth it? Yes, because you can do much higher level, more productive things with your time over.

people who also do it way more efficiently than I do, right? Mowing the lawn, I guarantee you it doesn't take them an hour and half to mow those lawns because they do it all day every day and they're super efficient at it and that's their profession and they're great. So I'm like, awesome. One, they get it done faster. Doesn't cost me that much. I get to open up time to do things that are higher level. Fantastic. And that's just an example of life. And for doctors, you also have lawns. And do I hear some of my clients that are like, I did the best thing, right? That is one thing I'm

Kiera Dent (13:11.563)

No.

Britt (13:34.78)

not doing anymore. So you've got your home things and you've got your business things to look at to see who not how. So you're not trying to cram all these things, feeling like you're ragged and kind of burning the candle at both ends. But you can look for those things that you can outsource, delegate if we've got the bandwidth to do it, so that you're looking for that person that's who and not how you're going to fit all the things in.

Kiera Dent (13:58.974)

Yeah, and I think it's just an interesting perspective of when you start to think of who, not how, it actually, I feel, takes like a mental lift off of you too, like off of your shoulders. You no longer having to carry this because I think so many doctors who reach out to us for consulting, they're doing the payroll, they're doing the HR, they're doing the policies, they're doing the dentistry, they're doing the management, they're doing the schedule, they're doing the time off requests. Like there's so many and then they're trying to be a parent or a spouse or an individual dating, like whatever it is, they're trying to do that. And then you're trying to juggle your house

tasks as well, like I've got to get the dinner made and I've got to get these items done or I've got to take the trash out, I've got to mow the lawn. So in all the aspects of our life, looking to see who could actually we delegate this to and maybe we just start with small things.

But I think about like in the book they talk about there's the collaboration and there's the delegation like Britt was saying. So who could we collaborate with? Who could we delegate? I know Britt, Tiff, Shelby and I just had a really good in-person meeting and it was crazy to think of like, and then we did it with our marketing team of who's the most efficient at getting this done. Tiff has said that. Tiff can write a newsletter for you guys, which by the way, I hope you guys are all getting that. The consultants like truly, I feel like they write you love letters every week in their newsletters. They just truly want you to be successful. So if you haven't subscribed to our newsletters,

Be sure to, I think it's on the website. Is that how you get it? I don't actually know. Email us, [email protected] and then, Britt, let's make a note to ask marketing. It should be on our website to subscribe to the newsletter. This is how we delegate guys, right there. Britt, talk to marketing. There you go, you're welcome. But like we talked about it and we're like, who's the most efficient at writing the newsletters? If it takes Britt an hour to write a newsletter, but Tiffany can do it in 15 minutes, well, Britt's a lot stronger at writing policies, procedures, operations.

Britt (15:18.012)

Melis.

Kiera Dent (15:39.82)

let's split our tasks, it takes a tip a lot longer. It's creative brains and logical brains as well. So who can we collaborate and delegate with? And then leveraging others' expertise. And this is where I think like coaches, different mentors, different people, like as an office manager, I wanted a mentor so bad because I'm trying to just fumble through and figure this stuff out rather than learning from someone else. And then he says, focus on what you're good at, stop worrying about the process, and then clarify your outcome. So just thinking of this who, how,

Like leveraging other expertise, like other people can mow a lawn a lot better than Jason can. so doing that, that allowed Jason then to work on higher, like I said, was $250 is how much. So for the two months that I had them, it was $500, I think is what I spent on our lawn care. And Jason was able to figure out, this was just one of the projects he did. It's a $23,000 investment into our retirement fund. So we think about it, $500 compared to 23,000, I think we often bog ourselves down and don't realize like,

These tasks will actually move you forward personally, professionally, exponentially. Like our doctors were adding 50,000, 100,000, 200,000. Our fee is anywhere from 24,000 to 50,000. But like you're making a hundred grand. So stop doing it. And I know it can be very scary. So Britt, how do you within the book, within your own personal life, how do you get past that? Like it's scary to spend the money and hope the experiment works. Jason was adamant.

He was not super excited about me because the first lawn mow was $75 and he's like, I could do it better than that, which is true. But yet, like I can give you this math equation. How do you, it's almost like, how do you let go of the vine and trust and like jump into the process when maybe things already feel tight or already feel scary or already feel like, like, how do you do that and get past that mental block from your perspective?

Britt (17:30.452)

I know. think it's trying something simple first, like honestly, right? Even if it's like mowing the lawn, right? And you see, all right, what can I get done? It's starting with something simple that's maybe, you know, isn't as scary to you to do it. And you'll start to realize that it's beneficial. And I love how you said even the things that are going to think about something new you're doing or something you're trying to do and the amount of time you might spend researching, trying to figure it out.

trying not having it go well, right? Kind of running that circle and the amount of time that it takes where sometimes it is just hiring someone that's an expert about it to be able to get you there so much faster. And I'll tell you, I think that some of our, some of our gunners out there that we work with, right? True entrepreneurs are dentists that are like, yep, they've got big dreams. They've got big goals and it's fantastic. And they realize this principle. think they've learned this principle already. They're like, great. Who can I hire?

who can I get to help me that's going to get me there faster because time is an opportunity cost, right? So like you're like, it's just my time. No, there's a cost associated with your time and you can be doing things that are much better use of your time to move things forward. If you've got, hey, most efficient way to do it, bring someone in, hire someone to do it. And that's part of who, not how.

Kiera Dent (18:49.249)

Yeah, I-

Britt (18:49.6)

I'd say try something simple first if you need to and you start to realize, my gosh, most people are going to be like, my gosh, I'm so glad that I did that. Right? And then, all right, what's the next thing?

Kiera Dent (19:00.08)

And as you were saying, Britt, it actually made me think back to, we have a pretty good pool of doctors to look at, to see how they're doing. And we have different tiers in consulting. And for all of our clients that listen, please know that I see you, I respect you. There's no judgment because everyone's at their own space. I have noticed though that there is a trend with the doctors who go for the platinum. So whether they're coming in person to our events or the ones that are we're flying to their practices and they have the one-on-one consultations.

They exponentially like without fail are always the practices that move forward the fastest. And I think it's the same thing of like virtual training with a gym. I had it, I had my trainer and she was great and it was awesome and I got good results. But me going in person with her and me training, have like, I was lifting 15 pounds and now I'm doing 65, 75, 85 just in a few short months. And so I think it's just the difference of like, I do believe that what we invest in can shorten the runway for us as well.

but also making sure we're not just dabbling in small dabbles too. Like it's just this interesting dynamic, but I'm like, look at the most successful people. They hire great coaches, they execute on it, they hire the team that they need to do, and they just consistently will move forward. And I think back to even some of our startup doctors that bought a practice, we have several that are doing ridiculously well. They jumped in, they paid in full for their consulting at the top tier. But I also think it's because they burned the boats and they were committed, they were locked in of like, I'm going to get the ROI from this. So I think there's also a mental game to it too.

And so looking at yourself of who are you, start with something small or jump in and be like, no, I need to commit to this. Like I love to freaking scare myself. love like Tony Robbins this year was so much like I pay stupid amounts of money for it. Like, and it's not stupid amounts of money. It's $150,000 that I pay for Tony's coaching. And yet the fit, the ROI I get, but like, I love to do it because I love to scare myself of like, all right, I'm going to write this check. I'm going to pay in full.

and then I'm going to force myself to find a way to make that ROI up. I don't put that on Tony. I put that on me. Like he's got the tools I need to implement and execute. And if I don't, that's on me. And so I also think sometimes like it is the mental thing with the lawn, you better freaking believe I was like, I am hoping this pays Jason off. And then when Jason saw it, he started to think of what is his hourly and what things is he doing that he could outsource to someone else to free up his time for it. Now the flip side is

Kiera Dent (21:23.82)

Well, Jason would argue with me, but I like mowing the lawn and I like doing these house projects and I enjoy doing that. And I would say, fine, pick one that you enjoy and the rest, let's look for who we can outsource that to, who we can leverage to, who we can collaborate with. You don't always necessarily have to hire someone. You could just delegate and use your resources like we do with our consultants, with Tiffany, with the newsletters more efficiently. And so I think within a practice, have it. And also office managers, look at your time. Could you outsource to billing? Could you outsource to an HR company? And when you look at your hourly,

Don't forget to tack on your insurance that you're getting, your PTO that you're getting, like all the different pieces, your 401k benefits, because your hourly is actually probably more than what you think your hourly is. So let's not forget that too, because for outsource people, like a consultant, like an HR company, like a biller, you're not paying the insurance on them. You're not paying the 401k on them. You're not paying for them to take time off. None of those things are coming out of your pocket. So looking at that as well.

I think are really great ways. So if I was you listening today, one, I'd read the book. think it's a good read, buy back your time, whichever one you jive with. think they're pretty similar notions, but I think they just speak of it in a little bit different. One, you've got to know your dollar per hour. What is that? And then go through your tasks, write down all your tasks, and then maybe put a dollar amount of if you could outsource this to someone. And if you don't know, Google it. But like I said, like these outsource companies are going to be cheaper than what you're doing for the most part. Maybe not always, but like,

Could you look for someone to come clean your house for you once a month or once every other week? And so it knocks it down and allows you to have the space to work on your business and grow that more. Could you find someone to do your yard service for you? Could you find someone to teach your team for you? Could you find resources for your team? Could you look for a different HR company? Could you reduce costs somewhere? There's so many different options. And what I love about these kind of books is when you expand your brain, you're able to actually do a lot.

more than you thought. And like we said at the beginning, I think don't forget the mental real estate of researching, figuring it out. So if you already know great people there, execute, grow. And then during that time, even ask those people. So like I'm thinking about coaches, I asked Tony Robbins, like, who do you know? And one of our great coaches this year came from my network within Tony Robbins, because now I'm not having to research, I just ask brilliant people, who do you know? And that's why I love our community is whatever question you have, there's a doctor who's done it done it somewhere who knows who can give you the resources for it.

Kiera Dent (23:44.886)

Now you don't have to spend the research. All you have to do is send one message in our group. They'll tell you exactly where it is. The consultants are there and working with hundreds and hundreds, like we're talking six, 700 practices. We have some pretty good resources available. Let's cut that timeline down for you and execute really quickly. So Britt, those are kind of my takeaways from it. Any others that you had, I'm obviously a proponent for this and Britt, you know that because on a week that you guys are gone, I just get a lot done and you're like, Kiera, know you think of who you can delegate to. Who do you know? Who could we send this to?

Britt (24:03.872)

You

Kiera Dent (24:13.75)

and you're able to get a lot done in a short amount of time. But I really do think that this is a powerful, powerful exercise. If you want to get more done with your life with less stress, more ease and go further faster rather than trying to like muscle through the entire thing.

Britt (24:28.884)

Yeah, and I think also realizing what things are your time sucks because I think often we can get stuck in doing the things that are simple and easy for us because it's just routine. And so sometimes those can be the hard ones to delegate or get rid of or outsource to someone else, even though those are low hanging through items. So even kind of asking ourselves sometimes, am I just using this as a distraction from the things that are most important for me to get done? If you are, then that's something that if you can delegate or outsource, it should probably be delegated or outsourced.

can focus on the most important.

Kiera Dent (25:00.992)

And a good way to look at that, think, Britt, brilliant is look at what tasks you're doing first thing in the morning. And most of the time, if we are not delegating efficiently or effectively or hiring people or utilizing the people around us, we're usually starting with low level tasks in the morning because it's easy. And the reality is the gunners, the practices who do the best, the CEOs that are really cranking, they're hitting their top, like highest value. I'm working at the top of my...

My degree is what Jason's clinic says with all their doctors, like you should be working at the top of your degree first thing in the morning, cranking things that are moving and pushing you forward. And if you're not, I think that's a really great area because it's easy to feel productive by being busy when the reality is being productive means we're moving forward exponentially consistently. So look to see, we busy or are we moving forward on the things that really push us forward? And if not, can we get rid of some of those other things? Can we hire people? Can we help other people train us?

I think are really good ways to look at this. So for you guys, read the book. It was a super fun book. I enjoy topics like this. I enjoy it. And also truly look to see your hourly. I know a lot of people get nervous about consulting. Consultants can be scary. The ROI, all the different pieces, but I guarantee I can stamp my hat on this. Every single client we have ever worked with, we run the numbers, we watch it. Your consulting is guaranteed to be covered.

Britt (25:58.912)

you

Kiera Dent (26:23.774)

with what we're able to add to your practice, reducing your overhead, fixing your billing in your systems. But in addition to that, you're happier, you're less stressed. Yes, it's a two way street. You have to show up to the game. Just like I said, I can't blame Tony of like, didn't get $150,000 of value. That's on me. Like I got to make sure I'm showing up to the game as well. If we're doing our part, which I promise you, we are experts in this field, but we can shorten your runway. We can give you back time in your life. We can train your team for you. We can help rally the team.

figure out the shortcuts to it, find the solutions for you. I'd love you to be a part of that. So reach out [email protected]. Like I said, whether it's virtual or it's in person, we've got the solutions for you. We've got the experts on our team and truly every client. just, heard from a client last night, he was like, Kiera, since signing up with you, my life is so much better. The team is doing so much better. I have more time to go play tennis, which was his ultimate goal when he signed up with us. And so really it's crazy. Like buy your life back. You deserve that. You worked hard.

Live the life that you were destined to have. Reach out. [email protected] Thanks for book clubbing with us. Next month, we will podcast on Deep Work, rules for focus, success in a distracted world, which I think is absolutely a perfect pairing to what we just talked about today. So you're focused on those really hard projects that move the company forward, delegating those lower tasks that you can to people that are not the top of their hourly rate. Spire time back, save yourself the headache, who, not how. It's a great time. Britt.

Thanks for podcast with me. I always enjoy a good book club with you.

Britt (27:50.184)

Yeah, absolutely. And I'll just add, you can sign up for the newsletter on our website. So TheDentalATeam.com. Scroll down, easy as clicking a button.

Kiera Dent (27:56.717)

Good.

Kiera Dent (28:00.472)

Amazing. There you go Britt found it. Amazing. Our marketing team is doing great. Good job, marketers. And for all of you, thank you for listening. I hope to see you in 2025. I hope you invest in yourself. I hope you shorten your runway. I hope you decide it is time to stop the insanity and let's execute and do something different. Let's do it. Let's thrive in 2025 instead of just barely survive. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#919: Debriefing 2024
21 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
Kiera and Britt outline how to go about assessing 2024 for your practice. They give three metric areas and discuss questions for evaluating each:

Profitability and business

Clinician and dentistry skill

Personal and team fulfillment

Included in all that is the recognition of accomplishments. Don’t forget to celebrate!

Episode resources:

Reach out to Kiera and Britt

Tune Into DAT’s Monthly Webinar

Practice Momentum Group Consulting

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Become Dental A-Team Platinum!

Review the podcast

Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.812)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is a special day. I have the one and only Brittany Stone, no BS Britt. What else do you have? What other names Britt? think bad.

Britt (00:11.616)

mean, you got my full name today. So like that's always, Tiff did that the other day on a podcast too. And I'm like, I always get worried when it's my full name that comes up.

Kiera Dent (00:15.127)

You

Kiera Dent (00:21.158)

Brittany's still back on the podcast. Don't worry. No fear there. It's just a good name. I mean you go by Britt. I only usually call you Britt every so often it comes through as Brittany

Britt (00:23.542)

you

Britt (00:31.786)

My mom did a good job. I'm happy with it.

Kiera Dent (00:34.22)

Yeah, and then BS. What's crazy is there's an office that I consult and their office manager is killer. She's incredible. And her initials are BS. And I was like, you and my BS are two good BSs.

Britt (00:47.03)

huh, it's true. They are fun initials to sign on anything when it's like a legal thing that you initial and you sign BS. I'll just say it makes me Google anyways.

Kiera Dent (00:56.458)

I mean, someone that I know, I won't say who they are. They have an account called BS Investments. So it's like they're just like nonsense investments. And we were transferring some money and the bank stopped us and they were like, are you sure you want to send it to this? Yes. So agreed. The legal, all the things. There's some good initials. But I thought they were very clever to have BS investments. Like those are just the ones that are like shot in the dark. You don't know what's going to happen. So with that,

Britt and I are back on the podcast. thought it'd be fun to podcast today about like, let's just go through kind of what we do internally. Britt and I work, believe it or not, we're not just consultants in Denali team. Britt does all operations within our company and her and I really do yin and yang. And so I thought it'd be a fun podcast for us today of kind of like, how do we assess how our 2024 was for you guys to really like, let's go through how was 2024 for you? What things should you be looking at? How do you assess if it was a good year?

if it wasn't a great year, because honestly, I think it's fair to say that 2024 was actually our hardest year as Dental A Team, like all the way around. And I think a lot of practices had a hard year. I think there were some who had like best years ever. But I think it's important to note that like ebbs and flows in business are normal. And that's okay. It's just how do we assess was it a good year or not? But shoot, I mean, we hired consultants this year, we hired recruiters this year, like we went all in this year.

because there were a lot of things we were struggling with as a company and I think like struggling and also on the high ends, we also hire coaches then too, but it's like making sure you're really getting the need and the support you have. And like those were pivotal decisions you and I made throughout this year, yin and yanging off of what we both had and our different perspectives.

Britt (02:41.949)

Yeah, for sure. I think when it comes to looking at years, like even your tough years, right? Everyone's going to have them. That's welcome to business. Welcome to life. That's what happens sometimes. And even just looking back and making sure that we always look at the things that went well. I think sometimes when we get to end of year, you're like, my gosh, what are all the things? What do we need to fix? What do we do? And making sure to take a look back at what went well and the things that went well.

What do we need to keep doing and not lose track of as we start to focus on maybe some areas or some other areas?

Kiera Dent (03:13.248)

I agree and I'm glad you brought it up because I think sometimes you and I are actually cynical and like it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, that was something good. So my question is, I mean, this is a real question. haven't, you guys, we don't script any of this. This is just me and Britt rifting in real life here. How do you not just like get complacent and be like, yeah, that was great, but we need to fix all these things. Like how do you really celebrate the good things going on and not lose sight of those? I don't know. Like I said, this is a rift. You and I have never really talked about this in real life.

Britt (03:20.721)

huh.

Britt (03:41.378)

I think it takes effort. That's why I try to keep it top of mind because it's more a reminder for me than anyone and anyone else out there that's like me that we struggle to look for the things that did go well or the things that are going well. So it's making the conscious effort to find those things that went well and acknowledge them because yes, I agree.

Kiera Dent (03:47.982)

you

Britt (04:01.802)

very easily that I'm like, yeah, yeah, or like not take credit for like certain personality types, right? Like I'm like, yeah, it's like, sure, sure, And like move on to the next thing. But I think everyone can benefit, myself included, from practicing and becoming better at accepting the things that did go well and accepting the accomplishments.

Kiera Dent (04:18.67)

I actually love that perspective. makes me think back, like I started doing this little exercise where they say to do a celebration at the end of every week. So you literally look back on your week and you write an entire paragraph of the celebrations of the great things that happened for that week before you go in and start planning your next week. And I thought it was stupid. Like, I skipped it for quite some time. I was like, I know better than you. That's just a waste of time. And it's interesting because on the weeks when I will do the celebration box,

Britt (04:41.174)

you

Kiera Dent (04:49.31)

and you and I both attended this event so you know exactly what I'm talking about. That celebration piece literally flipped my brain into a more optimistic, positive, I could do more momentum than when I'm just like week to week, what did I not get? And I honestly wonder, and I have no backing and nothing other than just my own personal experience, I wonder if truly celebrating those wins and really building that momentum before we go into our build.

can actually help us see the positives. it's almost like those are the sunglasses we're putting on. So then when we do go and tackle where things didn't go well, maybe we have a better proactive mindset on it versus like, we suck, we need to figure this out. It's almost like down and beaten versus vibrant and finding the solutions rather than just problems.

Britt (05:27.914)

Thank

Britt (05:36.374)

Yeah, and I think it's the perspective, right? That I think when you start with what you've accomplished, it makes going into planning to accomplish more things like, all right, like, yeah, we can do these things. So like, it's not like, well, we keep working on the same thing, right? Like, are we keep doing this? Are we keep doing that? Or like, there's always something wrong. Like, no, it takes a minute to set some perspective on it first, and then move into the next things. And I think for us, right, working with clients, I become more aware of it because I think like,

care about them celebrating more than I care about me celebrating. So like when things happen, I'm like, no, no, no, can we stop for a second and just acknowledge like how far you come right now? Like I was on the phone with the client the other day. And I've been with them since like early on when they opened and they like expanded and added associates and I'm like, can we just acknowledge for a minute and just like, I've been with you for like four years almost now, but like how far you come and really a relatively short amount of time.

Kiera Dent (06:07.32)

same.

Kiera Dent (06:23.182)

you

Kiera Dent (06:33.086)

Which is ironic Britt because without us again scripting any of this I did the exact same thing for a client that I've had for almost the same amount of time I think I'm a year longer than you with that client and I said can we just celebrate the fact that you've built this practice You've had two babies you've cut down your hours You've expanded your practice like you've gone from these numbers to these numbers like that's a lot and I remember one of the doctors she's like Thank you for telling me that because I think I forget to to acknowledge where we've been and where we've come from

And there's a quote that I heard where it says, we overestimate what we can accomplish in a year and we underestimate what we can accomplish in a decade. And I think it's just that like, we really do get a lot done. It's just the day in, day out grind. It's often hard to see progress when you're in it consistently. So agreed. I think that that's a good way to start of like reviewing your 2024 of like, let's celebrate the things that did go well and like make a whole laundry list and like have it as the brag sheet.

Get your leadership team. And honestly, Britt, we should do this before we set our goals. We should probably have a nice brag sheet, because I think a lot more got accomplished. And it's also fun to look back and see, we did accomplish a lot. I think it helps you also set the stage for the next year of, we were able to do all this this year. Let's make sure that we're being realistic with what we can do next year as well.

Britt (07:49.504)

Yeah, and I think evaluating some of the benchmarks too, right? think everyone, most people can feel the strain of like staffing, right? And so it's like, all right, we still may not be like completely staffed, but how have we handled this scenario or got creative or taking care of things like, those also are wins even though it's maybe not our ideal scenario we'd like to be sitting in, but we've done a lot with the circumstances we've been in.

Kiera Dent (08:12.347)

For sure. And I also think like you and I just in our last meeting hiring consultants. If you know any consultants, I'm not doing a shameless plug. This is a legit plug. I'm just going to ask for it. If you know anyone who'd love to be a consultant, we do not poach from offices. So don't even think about it. But if you know anyone who wants to be a consultant, send them our way. But like you and I literally in our last meeting, that's my little commercial. Thank you for listening. But like we literally came down to it we're like, Hey, this has been a problem for us for so long.

Britt (08:34.326)

No.

Kiera Dent (08:40.492)

What can we actually do to get out of this pickle? And we forced us to innovate and think outside the box, which I thought was really beautiful that we did. And I think for offices, like you said, assess the metrics and like don't harp on it. It's not like Britt freaking hire somebody, even though I sometimes wanna say that to you. Sometimes I'm like, just go find somebody. But the reality is like, let's innovate, let's think about it. Let's come up with different solutions that we can all do together. So on that agreed, celebrate.

look to see where we may be missed and why. I think us doing a deep dive of like, why, what things can we change? Instead of being like, well, we just tried to hire whomever we could. It's like, well, let's get creative. If we can't find hygienists, I know I just did this with an office, like, we can't find hygienists. So we literally talked about like, let's do a CE for hygienists, like once or twice a year. So all the hygienists come and if they're not happy, like amazing, it's a networking opportunity or when they're ready to move positions, they think about us.

We're literally going and we're gonna schmooze. Like I kid you not, we're gonna be schmoozing at that hygiene college constantly. Then I thought like, why are we going through administrators? Dental colleges, like the best way to get to the students is through the students. So how can we get like the students to get together in the hygiene schools? Like we came up with so many ideas when it's like, we can't hire anybody. We started offering part-time hours. This office has not wanted to offer part-time hours and we decided.

Let's actually look to see how could we hire part-time people. and I, did a similar thing. We're like, all right, this is tricky. Who's our ideal consultant? What did they do? Where are they at? Let's start figuring out a different solution for it. And I think that that's a fun thing of business, at least for me. That's the puzzle of how do we figure out these scenarios? Do we need to hire someone? Do we need to find somebody? Do we need to think outside the box? We need to get more creative. Or did we just set two lofty of goals that were unrealistic and we need to pare that down for next year?

Britt (10:23.648)

What's this?

Kiera Dent (10:28.288)

So on that, are you guys ready to review 2024? I think easy. think, and again, Britt and I have no script for this, so we're just going to riff for you. But as I'm assessing and what we do in Denali team when we're looking at 2024 is one, I think it's very easy. Did we hit our production numbers? Yes or no? Like, did we hit that? Two, how's our overhead? What's our profitability on the business? Did we hit that or did we not? Why or why not? After you do all this, after you've celebrated. So don't forget, celebrate first, then go into this.

Britt (10:28.501)

Thank you.

Britt (10:36.778)

Hehehe.

Britt (10:53.984)

which is

Kiera Dent (10:57.166)

I think I'm also looking at providers. Like how many providers do we need more providers? Do we not? Like how do we do well on that? We're looking at our goals that we set at the beginning of the year to the end of the year. How did we do on that? Why did we hit them? Why did we not? Were they the right goals to set? Were they not? And then what we start to do, and this is coming up for us, is we start to set the projections for the next year. Like what are all the raises? What are all the different pieces? How's our marketing? How's our bookkeeping? How's our legal? Like all those things we assess and what are we going to have coming in for next year to then set our new goals for next year? like

Really, think, Britt, when we look at it, I don't think if you hit production or you hit all your goals that that was necessarily a win of a year. I think you and I might have also shifted our definition of winning, but I'll let you speak to that first before I share. Do you agree with that? Disagree with kind of your thoughts because I think it's very easy to like it's only production, but I don't think that necessarily equates to the win.

Britt (11:45.236)

No, mean, numbers for sure need to be reviewed, right? That's our objective. How did we do? What were we shooting for? It's necessary. We need to look at them. And especially knowing we have hard, fast costs and expenses, right? Things that need to be covered. So those for sure. And then I think the rest of it is a lot more.

systems team soft skill kind of things almost of like, all right, take a look at what are all of our departments? How are all of our departments doing? What's going well in those departments? What's not going well in those departments? And looking at business-wise big picture things, but numbers are part of it. I agree. A lot of the other things have to do with our experience for our patients and our experience for our team, honestly, right? Because that's what systems build. It builds experiences for everybody.

Kiera Dent (12:15.318)

you

Kiera Dent (12:37.559)

And I'm so glad you said that because I agree. I think there's the data, the metrics, so the numbers, how do we do, then how are our systems, how's our team, how are all the different departments, how's our marketing ROI? Looking at that P &L, C is all the amount of money we're outputting actually getting the ROI that we're needing. But I think you and I asked each other really, I think telling questions throughout the year of are we happy doing what we're doing?

And like for me, I got to a spot of like, love my clients, but I am not happy day in and day out. remember, gosh, but this is a few months ago. I don't know if you remember it. You're like, I'm not happy and you're not happy. that's why you're no BS Britt. You will never like let me off the hook. Do you remember that conversation?

Britt (13:21.91)

I I remember that and cause it's like, that's not the way it has to be. think like that was the cut, like right, we're not. So like, it doesn't have to be that way. So what do we need to do to make it not that way?

Kiera Dent (13:33.676)

which I probably should have finished the statement. Like agreed. You came to it of like, you're not happy. I'm not happy. Like we're pulling all the weight of this. And if we're not happy, what's causing this unhappiness and what do we need to do to change it? And what was interesting is when we had that conversation, we realized that the vision we had set a few years ago of our company was actually the wrong vision that we had. and it was, don't know, Britt, I remember the day that we decided to give up our current vision or like our prior vision.

that we had been striving for and driving. I don't know how you felt, but it was like this, like, I didn't feel like I had lost the game or I was giving up. It literally felt like a sigh of relief of like, yeah, that's actually like the wrong vision and we don't even want to go for that anymore. And we need to create something that we actually are all excited about. That's doable. That gives us the lifestyles that we want to have. I don't know how you felt, but it was one of like, like I said, one of the hardest years to say like, well, shoot our North star. We don't even want to go after anymore. We need to find a new North star.

but also it was so liberating to have those honest conversations with each other as well.

Britt (14:34.426)

And I think that's end of year, right? And going through and reviewing some of these things and even in some of the soft stuff, I'm like, there's definitely a personal check in too, I think, and especially for leadership, right? Because leadership shapes everybody else. So I have no doubt. I know it, right? The rest of our team feels it too. If we're being impacted, they're 100 % being impacted by it. And that's not what any of us want. So what do we need to shift, change, work on, maybe reassess or reset on what we're shooting after and

focus on to make things better, right? And that's like you said, it's not necessarily like money, dollar better. That always has to be there. Don't get me wrong. Profitability always has to be there. But are there other things that we can do that we're not having to push for something that we're not really behind?

Kiera Dent (15:18.282)

Exactly. And I think that that's where end of year is such a good check-in. It's like, how did our number shake? How are our metrics? How are all of our KPIs? How did our quarters go? Were we on track? Were we off track? But then also, like, are we still super happy and fulfilled doing this? And if not, what do we need to do to shift and change that? Like for us, I remember when we realized like we need to hire a coach to come in and help us like set our vision because we're all in the weeds of this. When we decided we were going to hire recruiters to bring in different people for us that are better at this than we are.

we decided to bring, like, we brought in quite a few different people to our team. We've, shifted the vision. We worked on a different vision for the company and then we started setting like more realistic goals up until this year. I've been in founder mindset founders are like meant to double their production every single year. And like, that was fun until it wasn't fun anymore. And I was like, I'm tired. You're tired. We're all tired. Is this something that's necessary to achieve the vision of helping and serving more dentists?

Britt (16:10.454)

you

Kiera Dent (16:17.792)

And so like our vision of having massive impact in this world and positively impacting the world, that hasn't shifted, but how we do it is where we shifted. And so I think really like as you're assessing your year this year, look at it, look to see where did we hit, where did we strike? And maybe you're in the flow of like, I love everything and I just wanna go to the next level. That's also a zone of like, what is the next level? Like I have offices that are just like humming along, but even sometimes like.

Sometimes I even create chaos when we're just humming along and I think you want to tell me to like quit the chaos. But like you either will have chaos for real or we will create chaos because I think as human nature is like the secret to fulfillment is growth. Like we're looking for that growth piece but doing it in a way I think that's sustainable, realistic and attainable as well was maybe a good lesson I think we learned this year as well.

Britt (16:47.22)

Hahaha

Britt (17:06.016)

Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think with offices too, right? It's fun because we get to work with offices at a variety of stages. And I've even got some clients where they've got multiple locations and those locations are all in different stages. And we have to have the conversation of like, yes, like when we look at numbers across the board, right? We take a look back at months.

We've got to acknowledge there are standards, you're like, we have like a baby face and like a teenage phase and an adult phase. And the issues or struggles are going to be very different. And the successes are going to look a little bit different in all of those stages. And that's okay. And so in those different stages and depending on where you're at, right. Listening to this or where clients are at, what is it you want to go after? And what are the things we want to do? And like you get to a more mature stage in some locations that it's like, great.

What else can we do? There's always stuff to advance or that's the time that if you're really looking for that growth and like it might be time to start exploring what that could look like if it is another location or expanding or something.

Kiera Dent (18:05.678)

Absolutely. And I think a setting like even a three year target too helps us make better decisions for where we want to be this year as well. So like, what is that three year focus and where do we want to be in three years? But agreed with you, Britt. It's like, I think that it's a it's a balance as you set goals and you review your year of how am I profitability wise and business wise? How am I as a clinician and our dentistry? And then how am I on my personal fulfillment and team fulfillment? Where are we at? And I think when you look at those three different metrics,

But I also think it's important and I don't know, but I'm super curious on your intake or insights on this. Like what happens when you see you've got a gap and we're like, all right, I look at it and I know our numbers are not where they want to be. I know my clinical dentistry is incredible. I would love to learn like another CE and like fulfillment wise, I'm good, but I'd like to take a few more vacations for the year. Like I think sometimes we see the gap, but we don't actually know like how do we get to the other side of that gap? So do you have any like tactical

practical ideas for offices when they're in that boat of how to get to the other side of that gap.

Britt (19:10.396)

say I think that's where like community you're looking outside. Sometimes it's really hard to see how to jump that gap when one I've never seen it done before right I'm just sitting so silent that I'm doing everything that I know how to do and I just genuinely don't know a different way to do it. And so getting that insight from other people connecting with the group seeing what can be done I think is probably one of the best ways of like reaching outside of yourself or asking for some help to be able to see like how can we get through that gap.

and what aligns with you on the way to make up that gap.

Kiera Dent (19:42.218)

Mm-hmm. And I think like I'll piggyback on that of agreed like someone's done it success leaves clues So let's find some who's done it and done it successfully and like have them help us So whether that's a coach whether that's a mentor whether that's books But I also think but there's something to be said and you and I really had I wouldn't say a tug of war because I think we were both on the same Same side of the rope. It was just like where do we put the spend because we were looking at costs and we're like Okay, does it make sense to spend this? for X result

Britt (20:00.63)

Thank you.

Kiera Dent (20:12.192)

or does it make sense for us to DIY it? And so how do you, this is her real question, I'm curious, I'll tell you how I do it, but like how do you decide when it's worth it to spend the money versus when it's like worth it to DIY and invest it on your team and on the resources that you already have?

Britt (20:31.082)

I mean, I think it might be, it depends on how fast you wanna go, right? I really do genuinely think that, cause it's like, sure, we can try it. And if it doesn't work, then of course, like we need to go get some outside help. If I want it to get done faster, then all right, like maybe I just go for the help now right away and it's gonna, I'm gonna get there a little faster than maybe potentially failing, failing forward, learning from it, but still taking that time to fail. So I think that's.

My honest answer is I think it depends on how fast you want to go and what makes sense. What can you afford?

Kiera Dent (21:03.714)

Yeah, I would agree with you. And I think also investing in things that are going to generate you money, like a decision we have is on a recruiter to hire us this like amazing customer success sales and biz dev. Like it's a very unicorn position. And we have been trying for what a year to hire this position. And so when we look at that, I know for us, I also look at like, how long have I been in this pickle of an issue? And how long am I willing to continue? Like when we had the, like the realization of it's been a year.

We're like, all right, we clearly run the experiment. We're not great at this. We need help. And also, when we invest in things, like when I invest in consulting and we hired somebody to help us do our vision and build out the pieces, I knew that, yes, that cost was going to be high, but my ROI on the other side of it was going to be exponential. So I like to invest in things that are going to help me, like hiring a recruiter that's going to hire a key player for us. Yes, it's an initial upfront cost, but that key player

Britt (21:37.462)

We'll you

Kiera Dent (22:01.344)

should generate exponential revenue for us long-term as well. And so I think when you look at the dials like that too, how fast do you want to go? How long has this been a pain point for you? And then also like, is it a passion for you too? Cause I think like Britt, you and I will sometimes DIY when I'm like, do you want to do this? Cause I don't want to do this. Like, and maybe we do it for two months, three months. But I think like knowing that also, think putting the deadline on yourself, we had the deadline for us with this person, like

Britt (22:19.072)

True.

Kiera Dent (22:28.172)

We said, we're going to give it a month. We're going to try our best. We're going to do all these different pieces. We've got all these pieces in play. And if it doesn't work, then we're going to execute on this decision. But I don't know. I feel, Britt, so many people stayed too long in the DIY phase when if they would just hire the help or bring on the different pieces, it feels scary to spend the money. But I think the more you can realize, I guess it's just ROI. And I don't know how to even help people get more comfortable with that. But I think I've learned over the years, like,

I sometimes actually waste so much money DIYing where if I would just take, like just have the gumption and the like kahunas to do it, like we'd be so much better off for it. And so I think that that's also a skill as you go through. But then there's other people like, I think you and I would look at our clients, our clients execute, they take the risks. And I think because they take the risks and they execute consistently, that's why they have insane growth. Like our clients numbers are like doubling and like,

One of my favorite offices in three years, we've gone from 2 million to almost 6 million, like huge ROI on that. But then we have other clients that just don't want to execute and implement, like even if they have the help to do it. So how do you assess yourself on that? I think would be a good question I would ask you,

Britt (23:41.984)

think it's cost and I think assessing yourself because I'll own it right on some of those things is ego because I'm like, no, I can do it right like I should be able to fix this I should be able to do it. I can do it. So it's feels like failure even though it's not that's my my story. I'm telling myself it's failure but there's no nothing out there that says I can't get some help. And I do like in the end genuinely believe right I I want to surround my people

myself with people who are ultimately better at everything than me because that means I'm only going to grow and get better. kind of letting go of that assessing yourself like am I ready to let go of that ego be ready to accept the hell you ready to like not see it as failure but see it as growth and if so then like take the jump and make the move.

Kiera Dent (24:28.11)

Absolutely. And I think you and I, there's always going to be more things that we want to spend money on than we necessarily have the funds for. I think something we did really well this year as we moved through our business was we assessed of all of our spend of has that person that we're going to spend on done what we're asking for and have they done it successfully before versus like a hope and a wish. Like, we heard like we really vetted a lot of companies this year and a lot of different people before we made the spend of can they do it? But I think something we also did well is like

we jumped in with both feet and we're like, we're going to make this work no matter what and we will get the ROI. And I think that's half of like, whatever you spend in life, a lot of it comes down to you too. And I think for us, the pain point or the way out was greater than sitting in it for longer. And maybe it's just the time we're in, but I think like as business owners and as teams, the more consistently you can get yourself out of the pickle, the quicker you can do it. Like more is lost through indecision than a wrong decision. So like just execute, cause you're going to learn faster than you

than sitting there waffling. But I think as I would be reflecting back on 2024, I would be looking at how are my numbers? Am I good with that? And do I know that? And can I do that? How's my clinical dentistry? And am I good? And do I need help there? And then how's like my happiness, life fulfillment? And then what are the gaps within all of them? And also like assessing our teams and our practice, what are the gaps? Who can get me to the solution the fastest? And then just make the decision and move forward with it because I think

I think so many practices could have so much help and have so much happier lives and less stress, but they just sit in it for so long, ourselves included. But yeah, I actually do think it's a muscle that you learn to develop. And I think the quicker you can learn to decide, make educated decisions and move forward, realizing you're going to figure it out. And if you commit to it, you're going to find the way. I think you have such better years and more success quicker. It probably goes to the book like who, not how.

let's execute on these things and be really good at what we do well and hire experts to do the other parts.

Britt (26:22.656)

you

Britt (26:29.95)

Yep, agreed.

Kiera Dent (26:31.726)

Cool. Well, there you guys go 2024. So I think I would look at it, would review and really take this time to assess, see how your practices, see how you're doing, see where you can raise the standard and I think have someone like Britt in your corner as an owner where you can have the uncomfortable conversations, you can have the growth conversations. You know that you're both working hard to get the business where it needs to go and then set deadlines and execute. But I don't think either of us regret our decisions to hire the people we hired this year.

to make the spend. I think there was one that we'd both agree was a bust this year. Like if I could go back in time, I think you know exactly who that bust was. But hey, guess what? We learned from it and we learned what we won't do next time. So I still don't think it was a bust because we would never have learned otherwise. We tried something and it didn't pan. And we're going to try something the next time. And I'd say all of you do it. And if we can help be a part of that journey.

Britt (27:05.046)

Thank

Kiera Dent (27:23.5)

We literally are experts who have been there, done that, done that successfully. We get practices to be profitable. We implement the systems. We help the leadership teams. We implement within your practices. We teach you the systems and foundations so that way you literally have someone who knows how to do it and you don't have to do it. And so if we can be a part of that, out. [email protected]. and I have success story after success story, like offices and lives that have been changed. And I think we're living proof of that ourselves as well. So reach out anytime we're here to help you.

Let's make 2025 your best year. So when you're looking back next year, you're looking at your profitability and you're saying it's exactly what I wanted, if not better. My clinical dentistry is exactly where I want it to be, if not better. My practice is exactly where I want it to be, if not better. And my life and my happiness is where I want it to be and it's only getting better. And I think that that would be a beautiful goal to set for 2025. So Britt, any last thoughts you've got as we wrap up today?

Britt (28:15.518)

No, I think my only thing is always make sure to celebrate. Those of you who are doing awesome, rock on, keep it moving, keep going that direction. And those of you who look at this year and realize like, hey, maybe I could go quicker with some help. Like you said, that's what we're here for. So we're here to help support.

Kiera Dent (28:30.486)

Yeah, and we love it. Like we absolutely love it. We get so excited seeing our clients win. And it's so fun to celebrate them to show the longevity of what they've had and to also give them the guidance and set realistic goals so they're not having to try and figure it out themselves. And as an owner, I think that's the greatest gift we can give you is you don't have to do this alone anymore. You don't have to try and have all the answers. You literally have resources at your fingertips who know how to do it very successfully. So Britt, thanks as always for being on the podcast. I love a good podcast with you.

Britt (28:58.291)

Agreed, thanks for having me.

Kiera Dent (28:59.987)

Of course. And for all of you listening, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#918: 3 Steps For an Effective Leadership Meeting
20 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
Kiera breaks down need-to-know pieces of leadership meetings—ones that are regularly scheduled, have focused agendas, and require personal ownership from each person present.

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.798)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and welcome to the Dental A Team podcast. I hope you guys are just having the best day of your life. I hope that you just remember we are truly so incredibly blessed to be able to be in dentistry. I say this often and I genuinely mean it. I think it's so incredible that we get to be a part of dentistry. We get to be part of all this evolution. We get to be a part of AI coming into our practices and being able to have all these fun things. We're able to help our patients with

PRF and now there's laser that's helping with restorative treatments have less sensitivity and we're able to add it on and have literally patients healing like within three days after a full mouth extraction by using a lot of these procedures like it is truly mind-blowing that we get to be a part of this and giving people their smile. I was in an office this last weekend one of the the team members she's new to dental and she said you know a smile is the universal hello.

And while, yes, I've heard that before, it just kind of hit me again of how beautiful of a work dentistry is where we get to help people with that universal hello of being able to smile and have the confidence and also be able to fuel and be able to eat the healthy foods that we need to eat. To my mother-in-law, she had an accident and she wasn't able to eat. Some things happened and just hearing like how hard it was for her to be able to eat and consume food and how hard it was for her body to heal. just thought...

I think we sometimes forget how important our job and our role and what we're doing in dentistry is and the life impacts we're able to make for people. just wanted to remind you of what a great work you're doing and mass kudos and celebrate your team because we really are doing a work that changes lives. I understand we're not heart surgeons, but we are smile surgeons and we're able to give people the smile and the confidence of their dreams and make that a reality for them. So just wanted to remind you.

Keep doing what you're doing because you're making an incredible impact in this world. So as always, thank you for being a part of our Dental A Team podcast family. If you've not left a review, please go leave those five star reviews. Be sure to share this podcast with someone. Just literally like send it to someone. I want you to think of one dentist or one office manager or one hygienist that you know. Just send this podcast to them because I really am here to inspire and positively impact this world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. And the only way I can do that is providing great content.

Kiera Dent (02:21.984)

that you naturally want to share. So please share this with someone. And today's topic is going to be really fun for you to share. It's all about how to run effective leadership meetings. I know. Don't worry. I know how to give a good pitch and hook. How to run great effective leadership meetings. I just came in off the road. did nine leadership meetings in one week. That was my latest record. It's definitely something that I have not done before. And to say I was very tired at the end of it and

What my favorite phrase is, came from Tony Robbins and he said, bone tired, but victorious. And that's how I felt. I was literally physically exhausted. I slept in four different hotel rooms in five different days. It was just very, very like I was running. I was sleeping on all different time zones. But by the end of it, my cup was so full from being able to help so many offices achieve goals and dreams and amazing leadership teams that they never believed were possible.

And for me as a consultant, think my greatest success is watching my offices. Yes, I love numbers. I love hitting up sexy numbers. I love seeing offices who when I first started with them, like I have one office that I'm thinking of, when I first started with them, they were doing about 2 million. Incredible practice. They were doing a great job. And just over the course of a few short years, they are now producing, we're hoping that they end in the 5 to 6 million range.

And so to be able to give that ROI of sexy numbers, those are always fun for me to throw out to you of true real life examples, other offices that are producing 12 million, other practices that started out as scratch startups that are now producing 1 million, 2 million, 3 million, and having very successful profit margins on that too, because I don't care what your top line number is, I care what your profitability is, to see offices that bringing on partners are able to pull in 35 % profit.

Those to me are really fun, sexy numbers, because I think in consulting, you're looking for ROIs. And so to be able to share those success stories, but then I also have other offices that don't have as great of numbers. And I really do look to see what's the difference between them. And I think there's a few differentiators and one is execution and commitment. Offices that flourish truly do execute and commit for at least the three to six months or whatever we've committed to as a team, they commit and they stay committed to that. They don't just like, yeah, we did this. And then they let it slip off.

Kiera Dent (04:41.056)

The owners are very, very strict with that. Something else is the doctor is very much, the owner is very much involved in not necessarily running the meetings or doing all the pieces, but they're there setting the vision. They are there being a part of it with the team and they very much love their teams. And then the other part is they expect their teams to rise up. They expect their teams to have the conversations. They invest in their teams. They pay for the consulting, but they have their teams come to the meetings.

I have an office and like our meetings every single month. We have our leadership meetings and it is never missed and it is never let go. It is and it is in gold and it's so important and they expect the leadership team to go and tell the doctor what they learned at that meeting versus my other offices who are missing the meetings. They're not blocking the schedules. They're not taking the time. They're not following through. And then we're looking at the numbers. We're consistently looking at the numbers to see where we at, where the lovers and we fall in love with numbers.

All of my offices that are very successful know their metrics forward and backward. If I called each of them up right now, they would know their overhead, they know their profit, they know their collection percentages, they know how much is in their AR, they would know how much their doctors are producing, every single one of them. Like literally I would call them, but that's been trained over years of this is what we need to look for and we need to make decisions off of that. And then I train leadership teams to do the same. Training leadership teams to think like owners, to look at this practice and take the ownership of like, yes, the doctor is here.

but leadership teams are now setting the vision. They're setting the goals. They're setting the objectives. The doctor has a small portion of that as the owner, but the leadership teams are ultimately taking the ownership and having an ownership mindset on the practice. The doctors that don't do as well in consulting, or I would say in general, are the ones who are making excuses that are blaming, that aren't having the uncomfortable growth conversations with their team, that aren't expecting their team to show up to meetings. It's crazy. Some teams start right on time. Like the offices that do really well.

They are always set up, prepared. Everyone has a notebook and a pen. They're there usually five to 10 minutes before the meeting starts. And that's the expectation that they have versus other offices. They're coming in. No one has notes. No one's taking notes. No one's following up on what's going on. You obviously have two different stages, two different standards, but both of them have the same opportunity if they desire. And so just giving you guys some tips on how you can run very successful leadership meetings is one.

Kiera Dent (06:59.796)

always have it like set in the schedule and everybody comes and I recommend you always start five minutes like they're there five minutes before and that's on time. We always have an agenda. So there's got to be an agenda. I follow the traction model by Gina Wickman. We call them L10 or level 10 meetings. And there's a very solid structure in there where we start with our personal professional wins of the week. And then we have our expectation of what we're hoping to get out of the meeting. I do this every single time our team does it. My offices that I coach do this.

After that, we then go into reviewing last week. Did we get our action items done? Where are we at? We look at the numbers and the metrics. If anything is off track for that quarter, that goes to an issue that we're going to discuss. And then we move on to issues and issues we don't just go one by one by one. We categorize them, we put them together, and then we look at what's the one, two, and three most important things to get solved and resolved. And we come to meetings to resolve. We don't come to meetings to just talk. So we're coming there to make decisions. We're coming there with all the information people speak up.

Then we commit, we have our action items, people follow through. And a lot of times it's like dependent upon the office manager to tell everyone, no, in very successful leadership teams, you are taking notes, you are writing down your action items of what you need to get done. So you take personal ownership of it. The office manager is just expected to know everything going on. And if something's off track, they go have a conversation with that team member. But if leaders can come to the table this way, if leaders show up this way, leaders are being very involved, the bulk of the time is spent on those issues.

We're not here to debate it of a way of making people right or wrong. We're here to debate of what does the business ultimately need and why is this an issue without blaming? Sometimes it is like you got to call people out like, hey, Kiera, you're not showing up to these meetings on time. And I can either be annoyed, that's the ego, or I can say like, you know what, guys, you're right. And I need to set an alarm 10 minutes before so that way I'm here. I really have found that excuses destroy leadership teams.

excuses of why things aren't happening are what destroy and make it to where we can't move forward. And these are the things that I would recommend and encourage that you actually remove out of your leadership and call each other out of like, Hey, is that an excuse or is that a fact? And encouraging your leadership teams, like I'll throw another plug for Patrick Lanziani's, five dysfunctions of teams book, making sure that we're actually all talking about it. And we're, we're working on winning.

Kiera Dent (09:22.582)

And we've got to have the healthy debate. We've got to be able to call each other out and not take the personal offense. We've got to put our egos at the door and it's okay to feel bad because you didn't meet the standards and you let your team down. But that doesn't mean we make excuses or we blame. We take personal ownership and then we commit and resolve and we don't have it happen again. And so that's how you run effective leadership meetings. And then we always rate them and we rate them honestly on a one to 10. So 10 was, was an incredible meeting. We got a lot done. There's a solid plan in place. Everybody's clear.

One is this was a complete and utter waste of time. And the more honest and truthful we are with our meetings, like I've given my team a six before I'm like, it was a six today because we just got in a spin and we resolved nothing today. And it was an absolute waste of time for all of us. So next time we come in, this is what we need to do differently. I usually don't give that low of numbers, but when it's not a good meeting, leaders need to step up and say the honest truth. Now there's the flip side where people are like, I'm never giving tens or I'm never giving this like, but if it was.

give the celebration and let's celebrate that we did an incredible job as a leadership team. and then the other piece that I always recommend. So we start on time. It's always consistent. We have an agenda. There's someone who's taking notes, but everybody should be taking their own notes of what they're expected to do. There's true follow up. No excuses. Let's have that. And then whatever we discuss in the leadership team needs to stay confidential within.

and we all need to be committed. We're not having side conversations and that's literally being all brought up within that leadership team meeting. And you can also do this within your team meetings too if you don't have a leadership team today. But really making sure we're doing these pieces, we're building the trust, we're having the conversations, we're having the healthy debate, we're fully committed. And then I recommend ending that meeting about 10 minutes before time so that way we can make sure, okay, what did we discuss today? What's the action plan?

who's doing what and what did we truly like solve today to make sure we're all on the same page. And it's almost like giving you a 10 minute time to recap it before we get to the next meeting. And I found that that really, really helped. So even on my calendar, we shrink it up by 10 minutes. That way we can recap it at the end and we can end and be done right on time. And I'm always very committed to we end on time. Now, if you're in the middle of something that's very important and if we could get this resolved, we can move it forward faster.

Kiera Dent (11:37.938)

move the next meeting if appropriate, but try really hard to end on time. I understand sometimes it takes a while to get things there. So I give our leadership team permission of like, let's move our next meeting by 10 or 15 minutes. That way we can get this resolved. Let's be respectful of time. But I think a lot of those things are very helpful for running it. And something I found is I'm obsessed working with leadership teams. I'm obsessed with helping leaders learn how to run a practice and think like an owner. So we look at the numbers to make the decisions. We have the...

growth conversations with each other. fully committed when things aren't there, we figure out how to have the conversations with each other. This is the type of stuff that freaking lights my fire because if I can teach a team of leaders how to be leaders, that doctor is able to then have a practice that flourishes with a team that's bought in and committed to things that they would never imagine possible. This doctor that I was telling you that went from 2 million to about 6 million, we were chatting and he said, Kiera, I never believed that this would be possible. And I'm like, it's because

it's probably not possible with just you. But when you have a leadership team that's as passionate and fired up about it, they go and find the creative solutions. They're thinking about it as a business. And I've had to like work with this team. We're talking a year, two years, three years. We're helping them look at the numbers and learn the numbers because I don't think that that's happenstance. I don't think that this is something where we just naturally get it. And team members, myself included, we're not looking at the business like a business. We're looking at it as a team member of our

Like the awareness piece that we have is all that we know and all that we know is making paychecks and then paying our bills. We don't know what overhead is. Like it would work. Like that's how much is left over at the end of your paycheck. We don't have big tax bills because our taxes are just taken out of our paychecks for us. And so really helping teams understand how this works in a business. I think there was like a golden star moment in one of my meetings where the office manager said,

This is so incredible because you've literally taught me to think like an owner that I'm thinking like an owner and this is going to hit my PNL and what can I do so it doesn't hit my PNL and I make sure that it's fair amongst the other practices in the organization. And it was like chef's kiss, so much love for her because she literally thought like an owner. She thought this is going to hit my PNL. I don't know that I want to pay for this. What other solutions do we have? So that way it's not taking away from our profitability of our practice.

Kiera Dent (13:57.802)

when you can get your leadership team thinking like that and asking those questions, but that takes time, that takes education, that takes having the conversations. And so really, hopefully, that gave you a quick structure of how to run these leadership meetings. But I think the core piece is being consistent, executing consistently, following through, having the conversations, and then staying laser focused. We're all focused on it. Really, really truly is gonna help you guys have incredible leadership meetings.

and incredible practices. So kind of take an assessment of yourself. I gave you a little checklist of like my really amazing offices and then offices who actually don't do as well. Some maybe some DNA traits of these different practices and DNA feels a little unfair to say because I don't think that they're naturally born with it. So I would say that these are more talents that they've developed throughout the years because I believe anybody can be a successful business owner. I believe that anybody can actually have a thriving practice. I believe that practices should flourish.

Somebody I heard, I overheard that they said they thought that the glory days of dentistry is over. And I almost spit like my food out because I was so taken back that we do create our own realities. And I actually would argue that we are in the most glorious days of dentistry. There are so many opportunities around, there's so many ways that we can serve more patients. There's so many amazing things that you can do. And maybe it's just because I consistently see it with the clients that we consult that.

they're living the glory days that they're having these incredible practices that cashflow is not an issue for them. The profitability is there that they can take vacations with ease. Like, of course, everybody goes through ebbs and flows of owning a business, but the glory days are here if you want to. And I think having a leadership team really can help you. So if we can help with that, this is what I think we specialize in exponentially. We definitely do the systems and the foundations. And then we move you into leadership teams and helping them think like owners and the numbers and the pieces. And if that just feels like

Gosh, like I would love that. Reach out, [email protected] or go to our website, TheDentalATeam.com and click book a call. I promise if you're not quite ready, we'll let you know and we'll give you resources. So no matter what, your time will definitely be well worth it. Cause I will make sure that you get resources and value no matter if you work with us or you don't. Because I think sometimes we just need to have the courage to do something differently and to have the courage as an owner to say, I don't know this. I had to say this this year, like guys, I don't know this. I've never done this before.

Kiera Dent (16:14.764)

We need to hire an expert who has and can teach us the way. What I'm obsessed with of what we do is we do it with the doctors and the team to make sure that doctors, you don't have to just learn it and then go try and execute it to your team. Cause I actually think as a business owner, that's the hardest part. We literally help with that integration with your team, getting them fired up, getting them excited about it, making it easy for them. And that's what I think we're experts in. There's lots of consulting companies, but definitely team does it with doctors and teams, getting our teams to think like owners, getting them to be incredible leaders.

getting goals to be hit with ease and to have a just ton of fun. Like throw the confetti, laugh a lot, have a good time and serve as many patients as you can. So reach out, I'd love to help you. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#917: The Art of Maximizing the EFDA
19 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
Tiff and Dana discuss the ideal ways to utilize expanded functions dental assistants (EFDAs). They provide different ideas of how an EFDA can effectively fill in gaps, address scheduling SNAFUs, why state regulations need to be taken into consideration, and more.

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:01.464)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are back at you. Dana and I, Dana, thank you for being here with me today. I'm so excited to see you. How are you on this lovely, lovely, still morning? Yes, morning.

Dana (00:14.474)

God, I'm doing pretty good. I'm excited to be here. I like this. I know you're always like, I love my time with Dana. It's equally reciprocated. So I'm excited to get a little extra Tiff time today.

The Dental A Team (00:21.101)

Thank you.

Thank you, me too, me too. We really need to, I was thinking this morning, as I was getting ready for work, I was like, my gosh, we need to schedule the Seven Falls hike in Tucson because it's getting cooler, we'll say. So yeah, we need to find a weekend that we can get down there, you can get up there, and we meet, it's almost in the middle, right? So, awesome. Okay, hiking is my jam, you know that, we'll get that scheduled and...

Dana (00:42.731)

Yes.

The Dental A Team (00:49.771)

We're going to spend some time together today. We've already recorded one podcast and I cannot wait for that one to release. I think it was fantastic. Doctors. was really good. We just did it about coding and making sure that systems are accurate and billing is accurate and billing representatives, making sure that you're getting the support you need from your doctors within that coding accuracy department. So go listen to that. If you haven't listened to it yet, I do love all of our podcasts. I think that they're all fantastic, but

We like to hear it from you guys too. So whatever you think, whatever you need, if there's ever ideas that you guys have too that you're like, gosh, I would love more information about this. Do you know anything? One, ask us at [email protected] We're always here to help answer questions or give ideas. But if you've got podcast ideas, like we are open to them. literally, the consulting team goes through and we pick the topics and we try to think of the things that you might like. And I honestly think sometimes we might miss the mark on something. So.

Let us know if there's things that you want more information on or things that we could dive into further for you, because we're here for that. Also drop a five star review. Let us know what you think down there as well, because we do love hearing about it. I love sharing podcasts, Do you ever share a podcast with your friends? I have a very specific friend group that's podcasters, and we very specific podcasts that we share. Do you have one of those in your life?

Dana (02:10.75)

Yes, I do. And I always joke around and say, if I start sending you podcasts or even sometimes like funny Instagram things, like you've made it to my inner circle.

The Dental A Team (02:18.672)

Yeah, I totally agree. I saw a the other day that was like, it's a full-time job. I'm here for it. You're welcome. And it was like sending memes all day to my best friend or something like that. And my best friend is a stay at home mom. And so I sent it straight to her. She's like,

You're welcome. I'm gonna log on at the end of the day and I'm like, my gosh, got a lot of things in here. Yeah, but I do, I love sharing the podcasts and sometimes I'll share a podcast and they're like, gosh, I can re-listen to this. I'm like, I don't know. Like sometimes I just re-listen to podcasts and I get nuggets and tips that I didn't catch before or it hits a little bit differently. And I know I've gone back and listened to years later a podcast and been like, wow.

I didn't even realize it could have meant this or now I'm in this space of my life and it's completely applicable. And I think about that on my free time, I listen to much different, I listen to leadership and life coaching style podcasts and I do sprinkle some dentistry in there just to stay up to date. But it made me think this morning too, these podcasts that we do.

Sometimes we've got startup doctors or two years into owning the practice or associate doctors who maybe don't own their own practice yet or maybe they don't want to own their own practice but they're super new, listen to a podcast and then fast forward five years, we've been doing this podcast for a long time you guys, going back and listening to it from a different perspective. Today I'm a different person than I was five years ago when I first listened to it.

It made me think about that this morning. I love podcasting, I love pulling you guys into the podcasting world and getting this time with you. And it really made me think about how different stages of your life things are just gonna hit a little bit differently. So I wanted to take that minute to just remind everyone to go back through. We've got a million podcasts. Share with your friends, share with your family who's in dentistry. Like how many of us, right, have some sort of family member who's also in dentistry that could use the information?

The Dental A Team (04:19.771)

Just a quick reminder, and today's topic is super fun. I am not an EFDA. I will put that out there. I'm not an EFDA, but I'm a dental assistant at heart. I will say it every single time. I just said it on the last podcast. I love dental assisting. It just makes me so happy. It fulfills my soul. So today, Dana, I thought it would be really fun to take a little adventure down the road of what an expanded functions.

dental assistant within a practice might look like. And I think this is a good space for teams and for doctors, a good podcast for doctors to really get some ideas on what that could look like within their practice. Now doctors, will say and listeners out there, not every state sees an EFDA for what another state sees them as.

So a lot of the things that we're going to talk about, remember we consult practices from coast to coast. We are all over the country. And so we've got tidbits and pieces that we picked up from different practices all over different states. So caveat to today, I want you to go check what your state's requirements are, what your state's legalities are, what they can or can't do before taking anything we say and implementing it right off the bat, right off the bat, unless you already have that information. Really easy place to go is your state dental board.

ADA usually has some interesting facts on per state. So just go double check those beforehand. So that's my caveat, but Dana and I both have worked with a lot of practices who do utilize EFTAs. It's a wild wild west out here, so we don't require the EFDA, but we do have that available here and you can do more with it. You can do the coronal polishing and things like that here in Arizona, but it's...

sadly not yet required in Arizona. I think it is getting pushed towards that way. But I wanted to pick your brain a little bit Dana on some things that you've seen maybe just within different practices across the country. We don't have to like state specific them or anything, but how have you seen chair, know, chair side wise with a doctor and after really be useful to the dentist and the practice for maybe even practice flow.

Dana (06:29.374)

Yeah, so I there's two ways that I think are super common. And I do think that, like knowing, like you said, knowing your state regulations, exactly what you're after can and can't do will kind of help you choose which way might work best for your practice. And there is the first way is they really have their own column, right? And the doctors hop in where doctor is needed. And then the flip side of that is there isn't a separate column for them. They just follow the doctor.

So I think it just kind of depends on how much they can do independently based on state laws as far as which one you choose. But those are the two most common structures that I see. And I think that...

Again, we wanna maximize the way that we utilize them. The other thing that I see is EFTAs being used a lot for assisted hygiene because if they can coronal polish, that's just another avenue for them to be able to help in a different way, help to boost production too and just see more patients.

The Dental A Team (07:19.283)

Yeah, thank you.

The Dental A Team (07:29.703)

Yeah, I agree with that. I was thinking the same thing with hygiene and I was actually thinking as you were talking about like their own provider column or utilizing that provider situation where the doctor's kind of almost the assistant following the assistant, right? It makes me think of your hygiene schedule because if you've got an assisted hygiene schedule or even just two or more hygienists, your doctors are going in for what they need to for their exams. So it's kind of similar I think to...

practices and team members get a little hung up on the scheduling piece and like wrapping their minds around it because you're kind of like Reworking how you thought about an appointment you learned how to schedule an appointment you learn the X's and slashes and the block scheduling but now we're like totally warping what you knew and adding a new caveat but if you think of it in that like assisted hygiene or Double or triple hygiene where the doctors coming in for the exams. It's kind of similar the doctors coming in for

their pieces, right, for the drilling and the decay removal while the assistant stays there just like the hygienist would stay there and finish the cleaning, et cetera, the assistant staying there and filling the tooth back in and finishing it out. So the doctor would come and go and follow the assistant more as a provider. So I do have, I actually have an interesting like smash of all of that information. I do have a practice in a state in Tennessee.

that she's a fantastic dentist and she has like these insanely great ideas and she's always smashing things together. She actually took a hygienist, had a hygienist EFDA. So she had a hygienist go get her EFDA and now she truly is like a provider column because she's doing hygiene and she's doing EFDA out of that column, out of her chair in her room. So it's kind of cool because when practices do that, I have a few practices that are maybe not hygienists, but doing that

kind of column in that chair, that process for like a provider of a few offices that are doing that. And it's almost like you can then look at it as you would an associate or that fifth hygiene. Like how much is this column, how much is this chair able to produce based on what my UFDA can produce and not just what my doctor. So then my doctor column, like my doctor heavy column over here can be those big long.

The Dental A Team (09:46.101)

crown appointments or root canals or whatever. And while he or she is able to break and go do what they need to do in my assistant, my EFDA column, they go pop over and do that and my EFDA finishes it. It's almost as if my EFDA is a provider there and can provide that column's worth of production. So it really helps you, think, when you do it that way to be able to split it out very easily. And then Dana, you mentioned the assistant following the doctor.

that's kind of the same as it is now, but you would need that other assistant to be there if the other one, like you've got two assistants calling the doctor, but that one makes it, that one I think is probably the easiest version for the scheduling aspect for people to digest because it's more similar to the way we naturally already learned how to schedule. So I think that's probably the most common one that we see.

Dana (10:22.368)

there.

The Dental A Team (10:41.62)

And then the hygiene one, I love that, the assisted hygiene, because yeah, coronal polishing, most of them can coronal polish and most states allow that, but again, double check that for you. But I do, actually have a practice that seriously struggles with hygienists. Like they're just in an area that is impossible to get and keep a hygienist. It is so hard. So what they've done is they've actually completely changed the model of their practice and we're still testing it.

We're only a few months in, so do not drop everything and change everything unless you have already been on this train and you're ready for it, but I'm not suggesting you drop everything and change it. Hygiene is difficult right now. I will put that out there. And we need more hygienists, so everyone out there listening, if you wanted to be a hygienist, go be a hygienist. need more of you guys. But this practice is really struggling in their hygiene department, so what they did was they actually got rid of the normal hygiene model, and the doctor

is the hygienist and the doctor, but he's got his FDES who are running the hygiene schedule. So he'll actually have like full hygiene only schedule and he'll run three or four columns of just hygiene. And it's actually super similar to a pedo practice scheduling. So there are smaller appointments and the assistants are doing most everything. He goes in and scales and does the exam at the same time. And he pops out and he's just running around like a pedo doctor would from room to room doing the scaling and the exam.

So that's actually been super beneficial for their practice because then they'll do three days of hygiene, two days of heavy treatment because they've got now four assistants. And so they can run assistant-driven columns on treatment days. And then his column, he can run two chairs on his with two assistants and then two assistant-driven columns.

where his F-Dos can be over there doing whitening, they can do impressions or scans for night guards, all of those pieces. So smashing all of those worlds together, he is exhausted, I'm not gonna lie. He's still trying to figure it out, because he's running around like a chicken. But it is a kind of cool smash between that Peto style of scheduling and then going back to that GP style of scheduling for those F-Dos.

The Dental A Team (13:00.019)

I know you have lot, have practices spread out all over the place too. What have you seen practices doing? Those were kind of like examples, even similarly, but what have you seen in your practices, them really be able to utilize those F-DOS4 within all of their treatment?

Dana (13:03.21)

Yeah.

Dana (13:15.86)

Yeah, I love that you pointed out, Pito, because that is a great space to utilize an EFDA because assistants are doing a lot of the hygiene, but when the assistant can do the sealants and do the night guards and even do some of the restorative, you know.

The Dental A Team (13:25.984)

Yeah.

Dana (13:30.812)

after the preps are done, jump in and do that. So, PETO is a great avenue where you can really maximize an EFDA. So, if you're a PETO practice, consider at least having one EFDA on your clinical team because you really can maximize what they can do, especially, I mean, kiddos were trying to crank and burn out those sealants pretty routinely on those kiddos. And so, having an EFDA that even they can be scheduled specifically in their column for that, that's a really great way to maximize it. I do agree on those power hygiene days. I've got a lot of practices

that are doing the same thing where it's a power hygiene day. We are bringing in as many hygienists or assistants as we can and doctor and team are cranking out as much as you can there. And I like the assisted hygiene model and even if you're not in pedo, right, to be able to have them say, hey, no, let's go in overflow. Let's do your whitening today. Hey, no, let's go into overflow. Let's get that night card started. Like they can maximize and expand on what's already on a hygiene column. And if you're just a practice where like your restorative side

The Dental A Team (14:14.005)

You too.

Dana (14:30.668)

is busy and you are booked out so far, consider bringing in an EFDA who can run their own, like essentially have their own column that you hop in and out of while you're seeing your patients to really be able to maximize the restorative need in your patient base.

The Dental A Team (14:44.576)

Yeah, absolutely. I love that you said that about pedo with like the sealants and things, because I was actually in one of my favorite practices not that long ago out in Atlanta. She's a pedo dentist and it is just like, I love pedo practices. I just get so, I feel like a child when I'm there and like, my gosh, I'm so excited. And it's so much fun, but it's moving so quickly. And the front office gals, the scheduling, they slid in like.

some sealants on a hygiene day, right? Which is like a no-no in this practice and in PETO, like if it's a hygiene day, it's fricking hygiene. And if you're not, don't have F-dos or hygiene doing the hygiene and doctors, it's a no-go. You don't do this, right? So they slid in some sealants because it was break, was spring break, of course. And doctor was like, I'm not really sure how you expect me to get this done. And in my brain, I was like, wow, that's wild to me that she's responsible for the sealants and that

I didn't, in that moment I was like, my gosh, she doesn't have someone here to do the sealants for her. That blows my mind, right? So was like, we gotta get this fixed because if a kiddo is here, a kiddo is ready, a kiddo needs sealants, bust it out. 15 extra minutes to get those sealants done is way better than reappointing, bringing them back, getting them settled in again, getting them prepped, like.

All the children love going to this specific practice. I'm not gonna lie, they love coming back. She's fantastic. But that's not always the case. So if you are a pedo practice or just even a pedo practice that schedules out really far and this patient needs sealants, it's really fantastic to, like you said, be able to just be like, yeah, let's just pop over here. This, know, EFDA over here or this high jumps over here is gonna get these sealants done for you while this person moves on to their next patient or that patient, that person can stay with that kiddo.

give that expanded service while someone else takes the next patient because you're all kind of doing the same things. And I know in pedo model, there's more dental assistants typically than there are hygiene. It's very rare that we see hygienists working in a pedo practice. So having those FDAS on hand is gonna be super beneficial. Maybe one, maybe two, depending on how busy you are, to really bust some of that stuff out. I think that is brilliant.

Dana (16:58.23)

Yeah, and I've had a lot of general practices switching right, like we talk about sealants all the time, especially to hygiene. Like that's just a great add on for hygienists, even in adults. But I've got a lot of offices where they're switching adult sealants to flowable. Well, the hygienist can't really do that, but guess who can? And then it makes that transition super easy. We can find it in hygiene, we can do it while they're there for their hygiene appointment, but we're able to do a flowable or something that maybe the doctor prefers. So I just think, think about

The Dental A Team (17:03.319)

Yeah. Yeah.

The Dental A Team (17:11.225)

Bye.

Yeah.

Dana (17:26.804)

the things that you would love to incorporate or where you might have just a gap as far as a need for it. And if you're a practice that does that, if you're a practice that's like, I just need somebody to kind of fill in those gaps here and there and FDOT is a great solution oftentimes to the obstacles that we're running into.

The Dental A Team (17:46.251)

I totally agree. My doctor for years was like, this is so frustrating because I would prefer flowable over the sealant material because it doesn't chip as easily, but he was the only one that could place it. So I agree that is brilliant. And I think whether, whether your state allows the APTA space to really be driven like that, to really be utilized, effectively, start thinking about those things that maybe even a regular dental assistant could take from your plate.

that you're holding onto that doesn't require that extra schooling or education or letters on their name. Start looking for those spaces. Pedal, general practice, oral surgery, like surgical assistance. There's a lot of stuff they can do too. And a lot of things that assistants can do that we forget to utilize them for and then we get behind or we get stuck.

you know, stuck on something. know a lot of my associate dentists, our sticklers, still about their temps. I walk into practices and I'm like, why are you making a temp right now? Like, this is insane. This is why you have dental assistants. And the dental assistants over there twiddling their thumbs like, have nothing to do all day and I don't feel important. And you know, I'm not valued. And it's like, get your butt out of that chair, doc. What can she do to help support you? Or what can he do to help support you to give that patient an even better experience and to get you moving so that that next patient's experience

Dana (18:42.038)

Yeah.

The Dental A Team (19:05.716)

isn't negatively impacted just because you're spending time doing things that you don't have to. So, EFDA or not, I think it's really important to look for those areas where a dental assistant can be super supportive. Dana, have you had a lot of practices that have been in search of EFTAs and struggled to find them? Or I feel like my practices that can utilize EFTAs, like they're out there. They're finding them fairly easily and able to get them.

into the practice right away, but what have you experienced with that with the hiring search for Aftis?

Dana (19:38.646)

Yeah.

I mean, I definitely think that they're out there. think practices can find them. And then I think if you can't get set, like if there is an assistant that you absolutely love in your practice, who you're like, she's just as a chair side master, or he just is so fantastic. Consider reaching the topic of looking for growth, right? Are you looking for growth in your position? Is this something that you would consider? I think we could implement it really well in the practice. And it's something that I think you would be great at. I think that that's an easy space to look within your practice if you can't find someone out there because oftentimes,

we've got that fantastic personality, that amazing chair-side go-getter, that if we had the conversation with them, it's something that they'd consider.

The Dental A Team (20:16.892)

I totally agree, I think that's brilliant. I actually have a doctor here in the valley that did that and I was like dang, this gonna be everybody. He had like three assistants go and he's like my life's about to be so easy. I was like sure, we're okay. Yeah, so I do agree, I do agree. All right guys, hope, dentist, I hope you found this super valuable and I hope it gave you at least some ideas or sometimes we kinda just feel stuck or lost or like I just need like.

Dana (20:26.633)

I love it.

The Dental A Team (20:39.682)

something lost in the hygiene world, like whatever it might be. I hope there was a tip or a trick in here that helped you. For my FDAS out there, you guys are fantastic. For my dental assistants out there, you guys are fantastic. My heart is with all of you guys, my hygienist, front office representatives, like I hope everyone found something super helpful and valuable within this podcast and I want you to share it with each other.

especially when it comes to the scheduling. It does get little wild. It's just a little hard sometimes to bend our minds to understand what it is we're looking for. So Dana, I think action items, number one, check your state requirements and your state laws. Like what are you allowed to do with an EFDA? And number two slash three is really explore the idea and figure out where could you add more value to your patient's appointment.

reduce your time or not, at least not increase it utilizing an APTA or a dental assistant for more than what you might be right now. Dana, is there anything else you can think of? feel like those are like the two main shebangs right now. Like think about it, figure out what you can do, think about what you'd want to do, and then implement, figure out how to implement within your practice. Yeah, awesome.

Dana, thank you so much for being here today. Your ideas were fantastic. I know you've seen so many different things in all the practices you work with. And I know that with your virtual clients, you worked a lot on the scheduling model. So thank you so much for having that knowledge and for being here with me today and letting me pick your brain. I adore you and I appreciate and value your time today. Awesome, everyone. Thank you.

Dana (22:12.768)

Thanks so much.

The Dental A Team (22:16.539)

Go leave us a five star review. I wanna know if you enjoyed this. Doctors, I really wanna make sure that this stuff is really hitting home for you, that it's something that's super valuable for you. So reach out to us, [email protected] Let us know if you loved it. Let us know if there's more information that you'd like or if you're trying this model already and you've got some, you know, some stop holds, some holdups, some walls you're hitting, whatever that might look like, reach out to us. We're always here to help. [email protected] and we will catch you next time.
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#916: How to Boost Employee Engagement
14 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
The more engaged your team members are with your practice, the happier everyone (patients included) is. Kiera shares four questions to ask employees in connection to their engagement, then breaks down how to interpret the responses and what to put into place for improvement.

Episode resources:

Reach out to Kiera

Tune Into DAT’s Monthly Webinar

Practice Momentum Group Consulting

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Become Dental A-Team Platinum!

Review the podcast

Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.75)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and welcome to the Dental A Team podcast. I'm so happy you guys are here. I hope today has just been an incredible day for you. And I hope you guys just remember that we are so lucky and so blessed to work in this incredible industry of dentistry. We are getting ready to roll into Q4 and I hope you guys are just feeling good about it. Like Q4, end of year, here it is. And I hope you guys are just loving it and enjoying it. And you just feel like you are completely and utterly prepared for the greatest time ever.

As always, thank you for listening and please, please, please go leave us that five star review. Please share this in other groups, tag this, snag this. You guys are gonna wanna share today's podcast. I know you will, but you guys downloading these episodes, sharing them with other people, that's how you keep us as the top dental podcast. And you know our mission is to get this podcast into every dental practice out there because I believe that if we can positively impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible, we are gonna make the greatest good.

We're gonna be able to help teams. We're gonna be able to help owners. We're gonna be able to help patients have the best lives, the best experiences, the best communities. And that's what I'm here for. So today I wanted to go into a topic about how to get better employee engagement. All right? Anybody here for it? Are you here for employee engagement? Because if you are, I am here for it. I think having employees is some of the like hardest and most rewarding part of owning a business. And so today,

I just wanted to give you guys some amazing tips of how can you guys get your employees engaged. So my husband, actually is overseeing several, several, several physicians and people within his hospital. And we were talking about employee engagement and I feel like there's a space of like, we, do we survey our teams? Do we not survey our teams? What do we do with this? And he mentioned that at the location that he's at that they actually hide.

four questions within their survey to find out how employees are engaged. And so I will read them to you. Number one is, my work gives me a sense of personal accomplishment. Number two is, and you guys, I'm definitely looking and I'm reading this right now. I would recommend your company as a good place to work. I intend to stay with your company for at least the next 12 months, and I am proud to work at your company.

Kiera Dent (02:21.742)

So those four questions, my work gives me a sense of accomplishment. I would recommend this place is a good place to work. I intend to stay here for the next 12 months and I'm proud to work at this dental office. And as we were talking about this engagement, my husband has, with all of his team members, he has several, several team members and he just came in getting tens across the board of his employee engagement. And so I was asking him about it I said, what is it? And he said, these are the four questions that at their hospital that they're the most concerned about knowing.

How are they at? And so I asked my husband, said, okay, tell me more. I want to like do some information research outside of dentistry. What are people doing in other healthcare professions? What is that? And he said, I asked him, said, what are the things that really helped for your organization? And he gave me a pretty good list of as a manager, as a leader, what is he doing for his team to make sure that they're taken care of? And one of the things that I thought was crazy interesting is he said, the first one was that they're never alone.

that everybody helps each other out, that they feel like that they're a part of a team. He said that all of them actually talk about getting a lunch break and being able to have that time away from patient care and that they are fulfilled by their patient care and that they're like what they're doing is something they're very passionate and fulfilled by. They're compensated well. They have great hours that they're working and we're talking, this is a hospital setting. So it's stressful. It's hard. They have a lot of cases there and patients that they're responsible for. They see patients every 15 to 30 minutes. like

Just think about dentistry, we're not seeing them that often, at least we're hopefully, unless we're pediatric or ortho. But just thinking about how can we get our employees more engaged? And I've kind of had this like weird space of, we've always done two times that we would actually, send out surveys to our team and something, I was talking to a friend and they have done a lot of studies on, on surveys and your employees actually will rate themselves higher.

than how they actually are because we had some surveys and people were giving us tens across the board and then like a month later they were giving us a notice and I thought, gosh, like how is this even real? And so I'm in this weird, conflicted space of, here's the four questions but how do we actually get that information? Because there have been a lot of studies that have been done that actually show that employees actually want to show up the way they think that their employer wants them to be. So they're going to maybe give higher numbers and higher ratings than how they really feel.

Kiera Dent (04:44.396)

because as human beings, always want to be seen better than we actually are. so thinking about that and how do we build that and how do we build this space? But really, how can we get our employees engaged and excited about what we're doing? I think those four questions, if I were to go back and to look at offices that we consult and work with practices and looking at my practices, like I have several practices that have some of the best engagement. And I think about them that their work does give them a sense of fulfillment.

that they do plan to stay with that office for the next 12 months. And I think that comes from leadership giving a great vision of where they want to go and really having it be something that these people are passionate about. think them feeling like that they would recommend your office as a great place to work and that they are proud to work at your location. And maybe today your team's not that way. And maybe we need to flush some people out and bring on people that really are aligned with that vision.

I know it feels scary because the world has been tricky to hire and the world has been harder to find and retain team members. But I do believe that when we have those four things core and we have our employees bought into it, we have our leadership team in place with that. And we really are working towards that. I do believe that we have stronger engagement. I also think I'm working on really, really speaking the truth and encouraging your team to do so as well.

At the end of the day, you should be able to put your vision out and your team should be buying. And if they're the correct team and the best team, and if not, then it's okay to let people go and find a location that they really are satisfied with and you can keep driving it forward. It's always interesting when I consult practices and I see offices that have right people, right seat. And we were actually just on a meeting. I'll pull up some notes for you guys. We were just on a meeting and we're super excited to be working with this guy. And he was talking about.

If you guys haven't read the book, it's called the EOS life and I really really really loved the EOS life because there's a great definition where they talk about that people are compensated correctly, that people feel like they are having a sense of fulfillment and excitement and engagement, that they feel like they have time for their other hobbies and their lives and that they're just truly truly fulfilled within what they're doing.

Kiera Dent (07:04.844)

and that they have time and the bandwidth to do it. And I thought, how often are we kind of scraping things together, myself included within our companies, because right now it feels like, it's hard to get people hired. It's hard to get people engaged. But if we can think about, all right, these are the four questions that we want for our employees. But in addition to that, we do want people to be really engaged in the work that they're doing. They find it meaningful. We want them to feel like they're compensated very well and that they're giving back and contributing to the growth of the organization and that they have the time.

to have passions outside of work and they feel fulfilled by that. And like we have them in the right seat so much that we almost have to tell them to stop working because they have such a love and a passion for what they're doing. And so maybe today you might be looking and thinking, my gosh, there's no way my team's that way. Or you might be looking and thinking, wow, my team really is more engaged than I give them credit for. But what is a small one or 2 % shifts that you can make that would actually make your team more bought in and more engaged to it. And this is what I think I am the most passionate about within consulting.

is being able to help offices get their teams aligned to be rowing in the same direction where, like this coach told us, they said, the greatest thing is getting all the human capital rowing in the same direction. That's gonna create the momentum with ease. But if we're not there, we need to figure out is our vision wrong, is where we're headed wrong, are people wrong? Do we not have people engaged? Is this a place where culture is wrong, where leadership's wrong? Like what is the piece that needs to be fixed? Because oftentimes we try to like,

throw out so many great things when really it's just one small change that if we were able to make that change, things would actually move forward a lot faster. So really looking at those four questions, really looking to see what is our culture, what is our vision, and do we have all of our human capital rowing together? And if not, it might be time, like myself, where I hired a mediator coach to come in and help us set the vision of our company, to help get our team realigned and reinvigorated on where we wanna go. You guys, I am a consultant and you would think that I would,

always know how to do it the best. And that I would like to dispel any falsehoods around that because, yes, I'm an incredible leader and yes, I have it credible. I also can run out of like, where am I going? And was this vision the right vision? And I need some clarity around it. And so knowing when it's time to pull in a coach or a guide or a consultant to help you get aligned because they can hear things and they're not in the weeds.

Kiera Dent (09:26.602)

I realized I was in the weeds and I can't see clearly myself. You guys, I do this for a living. I coach other practices. I'm able to get their visions, but when you're in it, you're so close to it that you can't see it. And I realized to get my engagement scores higher, to get our team bought into things higher. I needed to hire somebody outside of our organization who can say the things that maybe I can't say, or who can say the same things that I say, but my team hears it differently because it's coming from someone else. And it's crazy because I believe as leaders.

When we can realize that we need that help and that guidance for ourselves and also for our team. That's the greatest thing a leader can do. Our job as leaders is not to know all the answers. Our job is to find the answers. Our job is to guide them on a compelling vision. Our job is to make sure this is a place that's, that's fair. That's incredible that people are proud to work here, but that doesn't mean that we need to enable. That means that we need to empower with accountability and ensure that where we're going, our human capital, AKA our entire team.

is bought in and driving. Now we won't have all A players and that's okay. We might have some B players, but the reality is we want everybody passionate driving towards that same goal with vigor and vim and excitement. Otherwise we've got people pulling us back and that's where things get very hard. That's when we start to have a lot of the team turnover, but truly when we can set our goal and our vision and our sights in the same direction, our entire team will be more aligned. So.

I would love to help you guys. I'd love our team to be able to help you guys guide you, help your team get that vision and that guidance, help give you doctors that vision and guidance, because oftentimes we're on our own isolated islands thinking we have to figure this out ourselves. But I realized that's our own ego speaking, not what's real. There is so much help out there around you to give the guidance, to bring your team, to get them bought in. and I'm so grateful that Dental A Team.

I truly believe is the best consulting company out there to do this for you and for your practice. So let's get your team bought in. Let's get you guys excited. Let's get that energy back. So everybody's rowing in the same direction and we can truly have that incredible definition of an incredible life where we're so fulfilled. We're so passionate. We're compensated well. The business is thriving. We have time for hobbies and family and other things extracurricular. And we do it with so much ease because we love what we do so much and getting people in those right seats, right places with the correct deliverables around it.

Kiera Dent (11:45.408)

is really the greatest way. So reach out, [email protected] There's no reason to wrap up this year and have it be hard for you when the easy answer is right in front of you. You just have to reach out. And I promise you that if you're not the right fit, we'll let you know. We'll let you know if you are the right fit. But generally speaking, when you come, we probably have a solution that you haven't thought of. And we always do everything with ease, simplicity, and making sure it's fun for you and for your team. So reach out, [email protected]

And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#915: Tips + Tricks to Make Coding Exciting (and Accurate)
13 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
Tiff and Dana discuss the importance of coding accuracy in dental practices. That includes universal codes everyone can understand, how to stay up-to-date on resources, the best way to know team members are getting paid for all their work, different codes across specialties, and more.

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:01.11)

Hello Dental A Team listeners, we are back at you today. I have the one and only Miss Dana here with me to podcast. I love pulling Dana in. I love pulling all the consultants in, but I truly love pulling in Dana. think I shouted you out this morning. do. Wednesday core value shout out in our.

I know that we've done some podcasts on that. So if you're not already doing a core value shout out every day or every week, please by all means go listen to those podcasts because it's freaking incredible and Dana you truly are the epitome of ease within our company and for your clients and I just think you need to publicly shout it from the rooftops be Just recognized for that aspect of your personality. You truly do make life easier I know a lot of your clients feel the same way you are

so good at finding the easiest path for the systems implementation for whatever it is that needs to be done for us as a company. So Dana, welcome today. I'm so excited to have you here with me. Thank you for joining me on this beautiful Wednesday. I don't know what day this is gonna air, but it's a Wednesday today. And it's absolutely gorgeous here in Arizona. How are you, Dana?

Dana (01:08.193)

doing good, Tim, doing good. love days like today.

The Dental A Team (01:11.629)

I do too, I do too. It's starting to get fallish in Arizona, which means 85 degrees instead of the 105 that we had last week, least up in Phoenix. I know you get a little bit more fall down where you're at, but I'll take the 85 over the 105 for sure. Today, Dina, I wanted to pick your brain.

I've got some information today I wanna share with the doctors. It's also for billing departments, for treatment coordinators, for whomever wants to listen to this. But I really wanted us to shout out our doctors for really, really just knowing everything about their businesses. I know that you guys are all here listening. I know you're watching, whatever it might be, to really learn more about the business side and about what the team is doing to help support your practice. So I wanna shout you out for that. And I just think it's a really incredible tool.

and resource to have to truly know what it is that's going on, the inner workings behind the scenes of your practice, aside from just the dentistry that you're performing. So shout out to you guys for being here, for listening. Team members, if your doctor's not listening yet, please share it with them. Dana, today I really wanted to pick your brain and go over some coding information. I know it sounds super boring, you guys, but stick with us. We've got some great tips and tricks and some tools, especially for you doctors who are out there to really

focus in and pay attention to the things that are being input into the system and sent off to insurance companies, or if you're fee for service, you still need to be insanely accurate within your system and making sure that we're using the right tools. So doctors, again, this one's for you as well. Billing representatives, treatment coordinators, front office representatives, office managers, whoever you might be, whoever might be touching a ledger or an account or a code in general dental assistance, hi, Genes, you guys.

This is all gonna be really great information for all of you. Coding with Accuracy happens to be a book, by the way, you can purchase that. But honestly, coding with accuracy is incredibly important and valuable to your system, not only for the billing portion to ensure that we're accurately sending things off to insurance companies, accurately getting paid, but realistically to show super accurately what you've actually done with your patients to your patients. That way, if anything were to ever come about and anyone needed to look into it or

The Dental A Team (03:28.327)

your patients had questions and they asked for the account, it makes sense to the next person who's looking at it. And you can say, yes, I did that, that was me. I did that filling, I did that crown, I did that crown seat, I did those pieces. I know a lot of practices, and Dana, I think you've probably seen this too, a lot of practices will overuse, in my opinion, an office visit or a palliative treatment, to certain codes like that and unspecified, because they're just not sure.

what to use. And so they throw one of those, especially office visits, and I'm like, what is this office visit? How many, this patient's been in for 20 office visits. They're like, most of those are crown seats or like if a filling needed to be adjusted or like, and I'm like, wow, so we don't have any documentation right here that we ever sat any of these crowns.

That's an issue. looking at those pieces and making sure that we're super accurate with what we're calling things is something I really, really want to talk about today, Dana. Have you noticed that as well? I know you see a lot of clients, you do a lot of virtual clients, but you see a lot of ledgers, you get a lot of things sent to you, and you have been traveling a ton this year in office to practices as well. So what are you seeing when you're out there when it comes to coding and just kind of like randomness that you're seeing thrown around?

Dana (04:40.983)

Yeah, I agree with you on just like the miscellaneous codes. I delivery. What did we deliver? Because we need to know exactly what we delivered today. And then a lot of just like 999 things and sometimes a 999 code you absolutely

The Dental A Team (04:47.133)

Yeah.

Dana (04:55.967)

can utilize it, should be utilizing it, but oftentimes too, it's like, no, there's actually a code for that. Like we don't have to send a 999 with documentation and notes, there's a code specific for that. So making sure that offices really are up to date, also to like when things change because they do change occasionally. And so just having somebody who knows those things in and out has resources to spot check and that we are billing what we're doing and coding exactly what we're doing.

The Dental A Team (05:25.511)

Yeah, I totally agree. The 999 code, I love that one. It is thrown in there for everything and I am guilty of the 999 code because I'm like, don't know what he's even talking about. 999, that sucker. And I'll explain, I'll say exactly what he just said to me. I have no idea what he said, but I've got this. So I'm surely, surely guilty of that one. I do love the staying up to date and doctors, I really want you to know and understand within dentistry.

There's not, like we have a course for billing that will review billing for you and will go over the basics of billing, what it needs to look like, how to send a claim, how to input an EOB and a payment and all of those pieces. But there's really not a good school for billing where it's like, gosh, I'm gonna send them to a billing school and now they've got this accredited school has shown them this kind of like medical billing, right? You can go to medical billing school and now you're a medical biller.

to be a dental biller, you just needed someone ahead of you to show you how to do it. So within this world, it's just super important, like Dana said, that we stay on top of it as best we can. So making sure that we're getting ADA emails sent to us and that we're watching for any codes that change, because they will let us know. Whatever your state's dental association is, I know here it's the AZDA, the California Dental Association.

Whatever it is, make sure that you're signed up for those auto emails, because that's going to be the best resource. And then as those yearly conventions come around that we all love to go to, that we hate taking boring classes, look for any updates. I wouldn't say you've got to hit the billing courses yourself, or you have to send your billing rep to the billing courses. Sometimes they're a bust. Sometimes they're super insurance prone or driven. I don't love that. But if there's anything that's like coding updates or

New laws things like that. It's always a good idea. So I do want to preface it with that Just know always staying up to date just getting those resources sent to you is going to be super super important And now aside from that there are things like coding with confidence coding with accuracy All of those different books that you can get I believe coding with confidence you can order from Amazon or ADA I think both of them have it. I think it probably comes from the ADA when you do it from Amazon, whatever you choose

The Dental A Team (07:37.7)

It's a fantastic book and having that resource, there's a companion book that goes with it as well. I always had that resource with me. It was literally in a drawer behind my desk and as soon as I had something pop up for an implant or gosh, when we were doing over dentures and there's just so many parts and pieces and little things that need to be accurately coded.

There's no way I'm gonna remember all of these things or intuitively know it. So I would pull those books out constantly and I would go through it with my doctor and I'd say, okay, does this describe, is this what you're saying? Is this describing it? Because even just for regular dentures, there's different codes that can be used. And if you use one that's a maxillary but you're doing a mandibular denture, you're not gonna get paid, right? And even if you put upper denture in the thing and you did a mandibular code, they're still not gonna pay it because it doesn't match.

So just making sure that those codes are super accurate. Now from a doctor's standpoint, why is this important? Super important because you need to be paid, right? So my owner doctors, you need to be sure that your practice is being paid, that you're being paid for what you're doing, your hygiene team's being paid for what they're doing, and that if, again, anything were ever to have been and come about, somebody looking at the ledger, looking at the account, looking at the chart, can accurately and confidently see exactly what you performed. So not only do you need to get paid,

you need to cover your tail. For my associate doctors and even my hygienist who might be listening, you really, really wanna watch your production and your collections, because typically, especially my associates, you guys are gonna be paid off of that in some form or fashion. So making sure that the coding is correct and that it accurately, actually reflects what you've done is key. Otherwise, you might get paid for a filling when you did an onlay.

Right, and the billing representative, has, or he has no idea, they were not chair side with you. So if it's not fixed chair side, or if you, gosh, Dina, how many times have you seen this one, where chair side, you know, we were scheduled for an MO, chair side, doctor's like, this went into the distal, we've gotta update that. So we update it, we tell the patient, we're like, got another service added, get the treatment plan going, lay them back, finish the filling, and then they go up front, and then they get paid on an MO.

The Dental A Team (09:51.99)

because the MOD was never switched out and the appointment went before it was set complete. again, the billing representative, he's not chair side. They have no idea that that billing changed. The dental assistant needed to update and change it. So making sure that that's accurate in there. Now, Dina, I know you have a lot of practices and a lot of associates. You've got a lot of big practices that have a lot of associates. How do you make sure at the end of the day, at the end of the month, at the end of everything, that these guys are knowing exactly what their

being paid on? Like how do you make sure that they know with confidence that they're getting paid for everything that they did?

Dana (10:28.329)

Yeah, I have them usually daily check their provider production and check their individual provider day sheet just to make sure that everything was accounted for. If there were changes, if something was walked out inaccurately, catching that from the very beginning is super important because honestly, like you pointed out, the difference in some of these codes is hundreds of dollars worth of production. And that can be even within implant parts, even with indentures, like a difference in that

that coding can majorly impact production. So making sure that everything is accounted for, everything that they did is on there and everything is walked out and ready to submit. So that whether it's insurance based or we've got to call a patient and say, hey, you know, we under collected that service did change, we had added. whether it is patient portion that we've got to update or insurance portion, just making sure that we're catching that. And I like to do it daily because

Claims are submitted daily. We're reaching out to patients and we don't want a patient to go till the end of the month before we're like, hey, by the way, you missed a thing, right? So I like my, especially my associates and hygiene to just look and make sure everything's accounted for each and every day.

The Dental A Team (11:34.98)

Yeah. Yes.

The Dental A Team (11:47.01)

Yeah, I agree. think that's perfect because pulling that sheet, especially like Dentrix and Eagle Soft and OpenDone, like all of these programs have a super easy sheet to print at the end of the day or even like print screen and then just look at it. So we're not using all the paper all the time. I've definitely had it where a doctor will come back like a week later and be like, we didn't actually do a buildup because we just, you you treat and plan a crown and we should plan a buildup just in case, or you have your doctors who treat and plan only a crown and then add a buildup.

if we needed a buildup and so vice versa. A week later, we're like, I didn't build up on that crown. I'm like, well, bro, she gone, she lost. There's no way, it's so uncomfortable to call a patient and be like, by the way, we forgot to charge you for that billing that's underneath the crown that's to build the tooth back up because of the K. And now I'm in this whole conversation of like, why didn't this just get done the first time? So I totally agree. I think that's brilliant. And doctors also, looking ahead at your schedule,

Dana (12:21.687)

It was true.

The Dental A Team (12:43.172)

Prepping your schedule in conjunction with that is gonna be huge. We get really comfortable. Our dental assistants are incredible. I was a dental assistant near and dear to my heart. It's my favorite position. If I were ever to like quit everything in life and go back to in-office dentistry, it would have to be as a dental assistant. I would not do anything else. It's my favorite space. But you guys, I messed up sometimes. Like it happens. I would get forgetful.

Like how many times did I forget to grab the bond? And I'm like, you can't do a filling without a bond. How did you forget that? And then expecting me to change it every single time in the chart or make sure that it was accurate ahead of time. Things flip through the cracks. So we've gotta have checks and balances. We can't just rely on one person to get it right every single time. So your dental assistants prepping the charts, prepping your schedule for the next day is huge, but I really wanna implore that you guys, you doctors,

You are looking at your schedules as well. You know what's coming up and you know that it's accurate. I had a dentist that worked in our practice. He's fantastic. He's gone to all of this oral surgery, like extracurricular. He's just, it's insane. I watch his videos on Instagram and I'm like, that's so gross. I always must do him. Like I remember the first time I did a bone flap with you and I was like, what? I can't do this, but he's so good. He did all of these like perio surgeries, oral surgeries. He did so many things in our practice and holy cow.

A GP girl over here, learning how to code for all of these extensive procedures that he was doing. He was doing, you know, he's doing the blood draws before it was even a thing. I am like, are we allowed to do that? Like I'm in my practice, like what the heck? This is crazy. And now I'm having to code things that to me are like outlandish.

and I'm sitting there Googling things. Like, this doesn't make sense. So I'm pulling out my little code book and like, gosh, it is in here. This is a dental thing. We can do this, but there's no way those added procedures would have been accurately coded if I didn't take those extra steps to ensure it. And if he didn't, bless his heart, come to me every day.

The Dental A Team (14:47.322)

with a list of the things that needed to be added to tomorrow that wasn't accurate or things that we missed today. He would double check his treatment plans just because they were so extensive. And honestly, there were times, like he did GP work in our practice as well. So there were times too where he would catch a filling surface was missed or an onlay surface was missed. And I'm like, dang, not only are, you know, did we miss something on your giant surgery over here that I literally cannot assist with, cause I will pass out.

But we also miss like a surface on an online, like, goodness gracious, right? But he is my example because he was so diligent about making sure that the charting was accurate. Like, of course he wanted to get paid for the things he was doing, but he's like, I need to make sure that whatever it is that I'm doing, it's all here. It's all accounted for. And when he went to go do all of the accrediting with the oral surgery boards and implant boards and like, he's got all this crazy stuff behind him now. He needed all of those things. He called me from Texas years later.

And I was like, remember that patient that we did that thing? And I'm like, my gosh, yeah. So I'm like looking for this patient. He's like, I need all of their notes and I need all of their ledger and I need everything to submit to the implant board. And I was like, my gosh, thank goodness we went through and did all of those things. So you guys, it doesn't matter what you're doing. You don't have to be doing crazy dentistry or crazy oral surgery within your practice. Those minor things need to get caught as well. And Dana, earlier you mentioned like the 999 code.

And I know we have to go in or have the auto updates done and make sure that the codes are being updated. But I did notice there are more and more systems that even have as simple as broken appointment code already in there, Crown Seat Code, Denture Seat Code, all of these pieces. So when you're working with practices and you're seeing this, or they ask us, we'll get text messages from office managers that are like, this is what he said, what do I code that as?

I don't know, right? But what are you doing? How are you helping them to figure out, this is probably not a pallet over 999 or what an office visit, this is probably X, Y, or Z.

Dana (16:52.117)

Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, if a lot of times I am pulling like a coding with confidence, or I'm googling things and, I'm trying to piece it together or I'm asking, you know, okay, well, like, walk with what does that look like? Walk me through like, can you explain the process to me? So maybe I can find it in here or send me a picture of the part that maybe I can look it up. But it's really just doing due diligence and combing through the codes that are available. And then determining

The Dental A Team (16:58.797)

Yeah.

The Dental A Team (17:10.987)

Yes.

Dana (17:20.083)

If there is a specific code for that procedure and if there's not, then yeah, you do a 999 code with lots of documentation, IOPs, all the things, so that once it gets to insurance, they can determine if it's something that they're covering.

The Dental A Team (17:35.266)

I agree, yeah, I love that. I do love Google, I have Googled so many times. I've been in office trying to help them come up with cheat sheets, which is the next little topic here, but that I'm like, what is this? Or give me a picture of this so that I can put it on their cheat sheet. And doctors who are doing things like implants or dentures even, crowns, anything you're doing, having those cheat sheets is super helpful.

I have a lot of my practices throw those into their operations manual. So with the crown setup or whatever, it'll also have the steps and the codes that would be used. We have to update it when they update, but have all of those available there side by side with it. So it'll be like, crown seed, and it'll be the setup, and then it'll be all of the codes. The ones that get wild are our implants, right? Our All-On-X denture cases. Those ones get wildly insane.

dentures, right, start to finish because what happens is in the treatment planning mode, let's use denture, right, as a treatment planner, right, so I'm a dental assistant and the doctor says we need to do a full denture. Cool, maxillary denture. And then I'm like, treatment coordinator, here you go. And they're like, cool. And then they schedule a denture. There's like 16 steps sometimes to a denture.

Right, so having that and being able to break it down and break it apart shows that all the steps and processes were done and then having a cheat sheet that goes along with it helps not only your treatment coordinator and your scheduler, but it helps your biller and your dental assistant, even your hygienist. I've had so many hygienists come to me and say, what step are we on? And I'm like, well, I'm not sure, let's look. Like, let's look at our checklist and see where we're at. So even within that denture, having the denture treatment plan for pricing.

Dana (18:56.011)

Yes.

The Dental A Team (19:24.294)

Obviously, right, any extractions, any bone grafts that need to be done. If you're doing a temporary denture before the final is done, if you're doing, gosh, if you're doing a scan and a final delivery, like they're getting much faster. But before, remember, we had to have a wax rim, we had to have teeth and wax, we had to have the color shade, we had to have a try-in, then we had to have a realign. Like all of these pieces needed to be segregated out in there so that we treatment plan.

the one thing, but we have those steps readily available so that it can be scheduled correctly and in order. And then having those cheat sheets with those codes lined up is super helpful. I have a practice in Wisconsin that was just getting so confused on the implant process and an ortho process. And I was like, easy peasy, let's just like section this out. And now every single time they've got it laminated and they just pull it out. They're like, I've got my implant sheet. I've got my ortho sheet or whatever. So I always have them add that as well. So Dana.

Wrap it up for us. So we've got coding, checking, all the pieces. What could an office do, a doctor do to ensure maybe even adding it to their operations manual? What's the process they should make sure that is being followed and updated yearly within all of these pieces that we've talked about today?

Dana (20:42.627)

Yeah, I think it's added to your yearly calendars that you make sure that you do know the updates you have the codes every year and just like we get Insurance fee schedules and we do all of our insurance updates just add that to that list one So add and make sure we've got do we have the resource for it? And do we know what they are? I think to any time that you are adding a new service just checking and double-checking that you know what the codes are So if you're bringing in a CBC team, make sure that those codes are in there and you've got fees attached to them

and all of those pieces. I love your cheat sheet idea as far as especially where there's a there's a lot of nitty-gritty things that need to get built out for specific things like ortho-like implants making sure that you've got cheat sheets and you make it really really easy and then make sure you've got a very clear communication system for when treatment changes so that it gets changed all the way okay and then I think daily having people look at them and just one

Final tip I guess in in with your cheat sheets oftentimes we call things things that like are not in the code, right? The description of the code is not that and then we're constantly like, what are they actually? What do they actually call right? A lot of your systems will allow you to add notes to like those procedure codes put in what you call it in the office so that it's easy to find it will still put the actual code definition on your piece going on your claims go out, but if you call something something specific

just update it in your system so it's easy for the team to buy.

The Dental A Team (22:12.623)

That was brilliant. I know my dentist had like five different terms for a hater bar and I never, was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And the Ribon, he would call the, you know, the Perio procedure by the name of the material he needed. And I was like, so, and he only do this once every, I don't know, 10 years. Like this procedure is never done. He's like, we've got to do a Ribon. Where's the Ribon? I'm like, I don't even remember what this is.

I don't know what that says. So yes, I agree. I love that idea, the descriptions and making sure too then I would transfer. We do this in our Google Drive, you guys. Whatever you might call it, also probably put that on your cheat sheet, maybe in parentheses. Like this is what it is. These are the five different terms that any of our doctors may call it so that it is easy to find and easy to figure out. I think that's brilliant. Awesome, thank you for wrapping us, Dana. I think this was insanely beneficial for all of our doctors out there and our team members again.

Doctors, if you're here listening, congrats. I think that's so huge. It's really important for you to know and understand these things. Share it with your team, because they can use these pieces too, especially anyone who's doing your billing and your practice. And then team members who are out there whose doctors haven't heard this one yet, share it with them. Make sure that they understand what they're getting into as well, and that they're supporting you in your position as a team member to be super accurate, because you're depending on them.

to get things right so that you can do your job. So share it with them. Make sure you guys are all up to date and as always, reach out for any questions you might have. [email protected]. We are not code masters, but you guys, we are solution masters and we will find the answers or find the way and we can help you with just about anything you can think of. [email protected]. We can't wait to catch you next time.
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#914: This Is Your Ideal Marketing Growth Strategy
12 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
Josh Scott of Studio EightyEight is back for more! He joins Kiera to talk about the marriage of creativity with performance marketing for dental practices, how to pull meaning from conversations when talking about dentistry, why putting yourself out there actually helps your patients, and more.

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:00.526)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera And today I am so jazzed. have one of my dearest friends and I don't mean that like as a podcast intro, like truly this person is someone that I just count as one of my greatest friends. And I'm so excited to welcome Josh Scott, CEO, founder, Studio EightyEight Marketing. They have the best swag. I was just telling Josh, I wore their sweatshirt all summer long. I am a terrible ambassador. I don't take pictures and post, but I love your swag. So Josh, welcome to the podcast. How are you today?

Hey, I'm great. It's always good to be here. looking forward to this all week when I see it show up on my calendar. And yeah, you know, I don't know that I believe you, Kiera. You say you wear the flag, but I've never seen proof of it. So we can talk like that on a podcast, but just saying I've never seen it. You know, I should like stop this podcast right now and run upstairs and go grab it. So then we have the, all the social proof, which I think I'm going to do. So we're just going to hit stop. All right, Josh. So, like I said, we were going to hit stop and

for the world to see. All right. It exists. It exists. All right. I love this sweatshirt so much, truly. And I love you guys so much, but like your swag this year was my favorite swag of all because the sweatshirt just feels like a nice hug and I appreciate that it's your company, but it doesn't feel like I'm just wearing like swag, like EightyEight You've got the nice like sports attire to it. So it felt good that I wasn't like.

Studio EightyEight I need to work on our Dental A Team. Cause I'm like, when I send you swag, it's like be Dental A Team today. Of letting me still be a human, but also that. So it does exist. I hope that my marketing team takes this crops it. It's on here. We'll tag you. We're going to use this clip for like the next three years. That's what's going to happen. Yeah. No, it's fun. Our team, they, so, so first off with swag, it's like, try to give people stuff that they would actually wear. So it's not just like,

blatant, you like you look like a team member of ours when you're wearing our stuff because you're just all EightyEight out. But, and they have a theme every year. So this year was this whole athletic company kind of vibe, which was a ton of fun next year. We're already like in concepts for, we do it in Q1 every year. So already in concepts, this whole like camping, kind of like modern camping theme. It's kind of fun. Like, they're, they're all geeked out about the videos. They're going to shoot around it. The, know, we're looking at like little tin mugs and things like that.

The Dental A Team (02:22.413)

So it's fun, but I always encourage, this is a good segue, because I encourage dental practices, like when they do swag, sometimes it's just like their logo, really big on the shirt or the hat or whatever. It's like nobody wants to wear a hat that says XYZ dental. But dentistry is so easy. If you just put, get a trucker hat, put smile on the front of it, put your logo on the back, smile more, smile bigger, let's all smile. That message is so...

awesome to like wear out in the world. And people love that. I've got this one sweatshirt from a dental practice to smile more on the back. And what's funny is when I wear it's a really cool hoodie. When I wear it, like people talk to me. They're like, yeah, I love that. You know, like, yeah, the world needs a smile more. And sometimes like when I'm traveling, I'm pretty introverted. And I had this on one time. It was like eight people kept talking to me and I was like, okay, I remember to never wear this again when I'm traveling because it actually creates conversation. And I'm trying to like check out from.

So I love it. And I think like good call to that because it can be so easy. And that's what I actually love about you guys with your marketing is your marketing is so very intentional. And I think dental practices can have it be very intentional, but it's very easy and it's fun. And I think you guys make it fun. And that's actually why I love you guys as marketing people that I recommend you guys do so many great things, your rebrands, your websites, your marketing. So

Josh, we were talking before about how there's kind of like these two parts to marketing that practices have really struggled with up until now within marketing. let's kind of like just do some chit chat on marketing. We'll probably like morph into CEO. Like I don't even know where we're going to go today, but we're just going to have a good time. Cause when Josh and I podcast, it's since the first podcast we ever did together, it's been a comical, like comedy show, either pre post or in the middle. And I think that's why we both love to podcast.

Yeah. Awesome. No, I think in dentistry, it's what's really interesting is up until this point, like historically from a dental marketing standpoint, if we go 10 years ago when the 15, whenever when digital started to come around, everybody got real focused on what we call the marketing services. like SEO, digital ads, some social media and, and dental marketing companies on the whole have been really bad at what they've put out. And so they almost kind of do this, like what's this minimum viable product we can put out.

The Dental A Team (04:43.819)

at a recurring retainer rate, like 500 bucks a month, a thousand bucks a month, 250, whatever, and just do enough to get by. Lots of stock content, how can we replicate it, how can we scale it, do it at an MVP, and just get it done and collect revenue. And so that was the state of dental marketing for a while. When we came around, I kind of had this different vision of, it felt like nobody was doing creative work. So I kind of came in with this whole creative agency approach of.

let's make beautiful brands and websites and photography and video. Cause I felt like all things being equal. If you're just looking at a bunch of stock websites, the first one that's kind of waves your hand and says, Hey, we're different. Look at us. It's just going to win. Like the Gary V says, the creative is the variable. And I've always believed that. But now, so, so then it kind of led us to this point where people were having to choose and they would say like, okay, like our competitors, their biggest knock against us was okay. Beautiful websites. Like they would actually concede that like,

beautiful websites, but they're not going to score good on Google. If you come with us, they're going to score better on Google. And so we almost had this war of, okay, you can speak to humans and do something that's designed really well, but Google doesn't like it. Or you do something that Google is going to score well, but like it just is not connecting with humans. And so maybe we get a lot of traffic to it, but we're not converting at a high rate. And so it just becomes this kind of cycle.

And what we've been able to do the last couple of years is I really challenged that belief within our agency and just said like, guys, can we do something that's still gonna connect with humans? Like you're still gonna feel something, but can we also build amazing SEO into it? Can we build amazing ad strategies that get that same traffic, but now they're gonna convert higher. And so for me, it almost became this like custom story-driven creative meets performance marketing.

And that's really like the most ideal growth strategy out there. And so we spend the last two years really, mean, we've hired SEO specialists, ad specialists. I honestly think right now, mean, our two SEO specialists, I would probably put them up against any dental marketing SEO in the country at this point. And it's kind of led us in this whole reorganization because now our marketing services are starting to take off and

The Dental A Team (06:57.801)

internally, we're trying to actually marry that too. Like, okay, we've got a creative agency on one side and a performance marketing agency on the other. And it's, you know, it starts breaking stuff and then you're like, okay, these systems don't work. And so that's been a ton of fun. is, yeah. of fun, like air quotes. I that's the CEO fun, right? Like, it's so fun. I know. And this is what happens. It's like you, as a company, as a business, you find a better way to serve clients and you're like, yes, let's do that.

and you get a year or so into and you're like, this is like breaking a lot of stuff that we have to now go back and rebuild. This is the fun when they're like, hey, start your own business, your freedom and you know, then you get into and you're like, this is a lot of work and energy. But we're having a ton of fun with it. And I think that that's really where the so kind of a history of dental marketing and where it's at today is I think being able to bring the both, both of those together, like this best of both worlds. If we're talking about growing a practice, it's

custom creative storytelling content with performance marketing. Man, if you can put those together, like you can grow a practice. And I think something I really love about you guys is I think as dentists who are a bit more introvert, like you say, you're introverted traveling. I think they feel very similar that way too. And it's like, my gosh, but I have to now be all online or in order for me to have this, have to be this like very bubbly. Like, I mean, there's some amazing doctors out there that have actually done it.

But I really love that you guys don't make them be anything that they're not. And that's like your whole premise of what you guys do for marketing is like, no, you be authentic to you. So if you're outgoing and extroverted, like let's do that and let's build your marketing message around that. But if you're more introverted and more person, like you want to, you want to keep that close to you, that's also fine. And so really just giving people the playground of be who you want to be and tell your story the way you want to tell it and run your practice the way you want to.

And you're ultimately going to attract patients who jive with that. Like you don't have to be a one size fits all to be successful. And that's something I've just always loved about your guys' style, your approach, and the way you operate. Yeah, it's probably the biggest pushback we get when we talk to potential clients. And to be honest, I would imagine people don't reach out to us because of this as well. But they're like, Josh, I don't really have a story. Or I don't know what my story is.

The Dental A Team (09:15.495)

or I saw these clients that you showed in this speech, but like I'm not them, you know, cause sometimes we tend to show the more sexy work, the work that we're really proud of and people like, yeah, but that's a brand new startup and that space looks amazing. And my space just does not look like that. And so there's this barrier to it. And what I would say is there's a couple of things is number one, like everybody has a story and that's part of our job and our discovery is to really pull that out, you know, with questions like, why did you even go into dentistry? Like why choose this profession?

why this location, why this path of CE that you've decided to commit to. Those types of things really help us put together, okay, here's the why behind it. The other part of it is it doesn't have to be entirely like your personal story either. It's really more the story of the practice. And some people are real okay with those intertwining and it kind of meshing into the gray. And then some people are like, nope, they compartmentalize it. Here's my business, here's my personal life. They are completely separate.

And so like, get that too. I'm like, well, then the storyline becomes the practice. Like, why is this practice here? Why should patients choose you? Why is your team better? If given the choice of any practice in the community, you say patients should come here first. Why? Like, let's explore some of that. So it's a little intimidating to approach it. And I mean, need to hear the doctors right now. mean, with video, it's, nobody likes being on video and watching themselves. And so that's, that's also, they're like, so I need video.

I'm like, well, your site's gonna perform way better with a video. Okay, I'm trusting, I'm like, trust me, our team's gonna be great, it's gonna be interview style, you're really gonna feel at ease, but that's another big hurdle to overcome sometimes. And I just have to say, as someone, I mean, I had to learn video pretty early on in my career of Dental A Team, and I remember there was a company called...

drive and we hired a marketing company. I $80,000 in three months with zero ROI and I made probably I kid you not 200 videos. Like I literally pulled our operations manual. I should have the team pull some of these videos from the archive for you. Like there's one where I buy into cake and I ate so much frosting that it actually hit my uvula and I started gagging, but I was so committed to finishing this video, not redoing it that I like. And then I like,

The Dental A Team (11:38.079)

I'm crying and laughing and keep going like commercial. Another one I'm pulling the operations manual out of the oven as like a turkey dinner like I'm dressed like like the amount of video nonsense that I did was ridiculous. But I think it was really great because it taught me like nothing's perfect. And I think even now you don't have to be perfect to get this. But what I love is I actually use you guys if you go on to Denali teams website, I love I always say if you want to feel like a million bucks.

Like even better than going to the spa or getting your hair done or anything like that. Like men, I don't know what you guys do to feel like posh and luxurious. Like maybe it's like getting a like well tailored suit. Like Josh, what is it for men? Like for girls it's like we go get our hair done, we get our lashes down, we get a makeover. What's like the equivalent for men? You know, I can get down with a good, you know, massage and a manicure. Like I'm not gonna lie, but I'm not talking about most.

man, you know, maybe a football game with a beer. can, I can go that way too. So whatever it is where it makes you feel the most posh. always say, if you want to feel that way in photography and video studio, EightyEight will make you feel that way. And that's something I have always loved about you. say like my best photos, my best photo shoots, my best video shoots always are studio EightyEight can tell without a doubt. Like you guys have this, you must have set presets. Like honestly, all the photos look the same. Like you can tell that they're just as incredible and I always feel my best. And so

We actually had you guys come out this year. Our team did our company retreat in Disneyland and you guys were so nice to accommodate because that's where I flew my whole team in. all virtual and we actually did a photo shoot in our hotel. Like I kid you not the things Studio EightyEight can do and make look incredible is off the charts. We went over to an office and they were so kind and accommodating for us and then we came back and they actually interviewed me and I was so nervous about this interview and I do this for a living.

and I've worked with you guys before I've gone through your brand pieces and I love that through your brand exercise. It's actually not hard. you just answer questions that are very simple. And then you guys, Studio EightyEight like delivers what I have inside of me that I don't know how to explain in a, creative artistic way, which I think is beyond magic that you were able to do. but to the interview in the video part, they did just ask me questions and I just rifted.

The Dental A Team (13:56.201)

And I rifted for quite some time and they're so nice. I love people on the other side of the camera that are giving like the head nod, like very intentional. They're so good at it. They're so nice. Like that's something I think you guys do incredibly well. And, I saw the final product. was interesting. I was out for a little while this year and I came back and I saw this final part. I didn't even know it was on the website and I happened to be looking at our website and it was so incredible to see my, my story and my life.

You guys were able to parse it together. I like it super emotional about it because you don't realize it's in you. You don't realize that that's a part of you. And I think you guys are just like, that's why I love Josh. I think you just see people for who they really are and you bring that to light in a way that's so safe and so accommodating and so just special. I think is probably the best way. feel like the way you present our photography and the way you present our websites and the way you present brands and the way you present video.

Is you take someone who doesn't know how to express themselves like so many of us feel like we're alone or people don't get it like I was just watching Survivor last night and every single person on the show is saying like you just feel so alone you feel like people don't get you you feel like you've been an outcast your whole life or you feel like you know, why am I the one doing this and I'm like every single freaking person on this planet feels that way and yet working with you guys you just it's like it's almost like the way I'm envisioning it is almost like you

pull out this like little green sprig of life that I didn't even know was a part of me. And I feel like I'm pretty confident. I know who I am and like I can tell my story, but it's just magic how you pull that together. So doctors or teams or any company worried about it. One, you guys are just so good at it. But like I said, I feel like you're able to take who we are and create masterpieces that we didn't even know were a part of us. And you're welcome to use that as like a testimonial, because honestly, I didn't intend to any of this.

I'm just going keep letting you talk. don't even. But it really is. It's just like the little glitter moments that you don't realize are a part of you is what I think you guys bring, which is probably why I rep your swag all the time. Like, because I think it's just magical of what you're able to create for people. And again, like I've done how many sessions with you guys, like Josh, you and I have gone through so many rounds of my brand and my life and my story. And I feel like you guys know me, but you weren't even there this time. It was your team.

The Dental A Team (16:19.245)

And they were able to bring this out of me. And I just watched it and I was like, yeah, that's exactly how I want Dennis to feel. That's exactly how I want people to feel. That is my life. That's why I freaking built this company to serve people on that level. And I just think mad kudos to you. And yeah, it's a testimony that I didn't mean on a podcast, but I just think it is magic to watch you guys like spring to life stories that people don't even realize. So if you're questioning, like I don't even feel like I've got a story.

You probably have this story. You just don't know how to put the pieces together. And if you don't think about it and you just interview, you guys are very creative and talented at pulling it all together. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I mean, that's, and I know it's obviously very heartfelt. David was out with you guys recently and he's, he's one of our full-time photographers. He just is on the West coast. He used to actually live here in Columbus and that's how we got to meet him. He came to me and said, Hey, I want to move to LA. And I was like, fine, just handle everything, you know, like West of the Rockies. And so

he's an amazing guy. And I'll tell you, part of our process is like with those content creators, the talent has to be there for sure. But what a lot of people don't realize is the missing piece is the human component. like it isn't anything, but they have to be able to, mean, we, go through training on like interview skills. We go through training on, you know, walking into a room of, of, like a dental practice and you've got, you know, six to eight females there and they've got some anxiety about what's happening. And they were just told.

24 hours before that they're gonna have their photos taken and you gotta be able to go in and like manage a room and manage people. I mean, we train on posing because you can't just like put people together and expect a great team photo either. There's a lot of like science and intentionality that goes around that. And so we've worked really hard on that stuff. But like you're right. mean, we, it's, we had a client recently and what I, what I loved what she said was we delivered the photography and video and, and,

And she, I think she was texting Joanna and I and she just said, this is who I thought I was, but I wasn't sure. And when your stuff came back, it was like that person I thought I was, like I am that person, you know? And she saw that on the other side. It's almost like you get to see how the world sees you. And I think so much of it is like, we're just in it day to day. like,

The Dental A Team (18:37.111)

Having a grip on that story and even like your impact on the world on the day to day is so hard, I mean, because we just like, we get up, see like the starts and the stops. We see the times we just like failed or said something we shouldn't have and had to go back and fix it. We see we're dealing with a client that's not working well or a patient or a team member's attitude and every day can just be like that. And you get to the end of it you're like.

I don't know, man. feel like I'm surviving. I feel like I'm trying to build something, but it's just like, we're going against gravity. Just trying to make it happen. And when somebody else comes along and they go, they almost step back and get this 30,000 foot view. It's almost like the, like the movie screen view. Like they, they force you to almost like sit up towards the back of the movie theater and zoom out on your life. And now you're seeing it play in this like feature film. And yeah, you have these moments where you're like, this is amazing. Like this is worth it. This is.

actually, like this is actually beautiful, like it's actually moving me. And that's an amazing thing to be able to do. I think we all, so going back, I think we all have that in us. It just takes somebody to come along and go, no, this is practice you're building. Like the world needs this. Like this is beautiful. And I love like when I get to talk to entrepreneurs and CEOs and dental owners, cause I'm like, you guys are actively, like here's what you don't realize. You're actively participating in creation. Like you're building something that did not exist there before.

So like that's, that's this amazing thing and you're doing it for the better of the world. Like what, what better story? Let's just take that. What better story is there out there than that? It's just not. So entrepreneurs, I'm like, yeah, like this is what you're doing. of course you have moments when you're tired. Of course you feel exhausted. Of course you feel drained. You're like putting your energy out there to actually create something that has never existed before for the better of humanity. Like,

it's going to drain you, it's going to zap you day to day. You're going to be like, there's nothing special happening here. And so I had to come along and go, but there is, and here's what we see is so powerful. And as you were saying that I couldn't help but think about, there's this company called story worth, like not a plug for them whatsoever. I just happened to, my husband's parents are quite a bit older and, my parents are like, my husband, I are both very fortunate that both of our parents are still alive.

The Dental A Team (20:59.781)

And I decided this year I was going to have maybe make like a little competition between his parents and mine, just as I, my thought of how I could get these stories done. but I'm having his parents and my parents write stories every single week and we're going to compile it and put together books for, all of my siblings, all my husband's siblings. And I know like the grandchildren and everybody just kind of wants these stories. And it's interesting because his parents and my parents both were like, I don't want to write these stories. There's really nothing to say.

Because I think we minimize our stories and our lives. And we're like, but I'm not Walt Disney, or I'm not Gandhi, or I'm not Mother Teresa. But we don't realize that 99 % of the population is not them. We're all just average day people. But those average day people are the people that impact and change. And so for my in-laws, them writing their story, no, this isn't going to be a best seller. I'm not going to go put it out there. But it's not meant to be. It's meant to serve our family and the people that are connected to my in-laws and to my parents.

just like in your practice, your story and your practice and why you even built this is not meant to be for every single patient in the United States or across the globe. It's meant to be in your niche of the people that you're meant to serve and that you're there to serve. And so I really just love that you said like you bring it to the forefront and it's been really fun to watch my in-laws and my parents this year see that they actually do have a story. And again, it's through prompts. Like you said, it's like very simple things that they didn't even realize.

But it's been so magical to learn about them in an easy way. And that's, think, what you guys do really well. so, but I did the same thing with my mom. This whole thing, know, story worth Joanna did with her mom and for Mother's Day and I did it for my mom. And it's like she's not as consistent as I would like her to be with them. But competition Josh, got both parents going against each other and it's great. They've all done it. We're consistent.

That's a great idea. But it's like every now and then, and because she's just up earlier than me, like I get up and I get my email and it sends them to me. And so I get this and a couple of times I've been like, I'm so busy, my email box is full, but I forced myself to stop and I read it. And sometimes I'm just like, this is fascinating. Like, you know, even thinking about like what she came out of and how she raised us and you're right. And then when they all get kind of stitched together, it's going to create this like, you know, amazing story.

The Dental A Team (23:21.227)

I was at the ODA two weeks ago, Ohio dental association, and I was walking the trade show floor. We usually actually don't support it, but there were some speakers there and we did a reception and all that. So we had a team on the floor and I'm walking and I just know a lot of people. So it's just like, you're stopping every so often, but notice this new marketing company on the floor. And I forget what their name was, but their display was kind of modern and minimal. And I was like, okay. Like it kind of caught my eye. All the guys have like the Nike dunk pandas on.

which is what my team wears at conferences. so immediately I get into this like, dude, they're knocking us off. They're stealing our shoes. We wear these shoes. So I was like, I'm going to go have some fun with them. So I just walked up. I said, hey man, I like the kicks. And he was like, thanks, thanks. I said, yeah. I said, my team wears those at conferences. We've been doing that for a little while now. And he's like, your team? I was like, yeah. I said, we're just over a couple rows. I said, Studio EightyEight And he's like, Studio EightyEight And I'm like, yeah, I'm Josh. I was like, Gavin, I read his name title. Nice to meet you.

And he goes, you're Josh with studio EightyEight I'm like, at this point, like, yeah. So a couple of his team members come over and he was like, dude, you, he tells his team members, he's like, guys, we've learned everything we know from this guy and their company. I'm like, then I'm like, great. Because I get agencies that come up to us and they're like, do we follow your stuff? We're building an agency. We're doing the exact same thing. I'm like, amazing. Yeah. Copy our stuff and build another business. so that's a whole nother conversation, but.

He goes, he's like, were the first one to bring custom photography and video into dental. And I'm like, I was like, bro, I don't know about that. I'm sure people did custom photography before that. And he was like, no, but you were the original disruptor of that whole thing. And I was like, we were probably the first one to create a business model around it and be able to take it nationwide in a way that was profitable and that served the profession. So was like,

Yeah, but it was like that. So he's repeating the storyline back. It was actually, it was very like, kind of, I don't know, was like sincere and it was cool. It was like this, you know, interaction, but I was like, I've never thought of myself like that. But when somebody says it and then you're kind like, well, I mean, maybe, I don't know. I'm a disruptor, who knows? But yeah. I love it. I love it. And I think like, as you were saying that, I think so many of us don't realize how impactful what we're doing.

The Dental A Team (25:43.946)

is I was just reading an article this morning and they said, what's the most impactful book you've ever read? And they said, shoe dog. And shoe dog came up at another conference and another conference. And that's literally just a story about Nike. And I guarantee you that person when they're and I don't know their name. I have not read it. It's on my queue because I saw it again of like reading the most impactful book. But I just think most of the things that impact us the most are people's stories.

The things that we remember our people stories the things like and even if it's a small thing and it's not some person like Walt Disney or Gandhi or Nike So many of those stories just need to be told and I think we're in a day and age like you look at social media like people watch videos because it's telling stories and they're entertaining and it's fun for us and yet if I go on Jason's Social versus mine. We have two very different algorithms Like Jason has a little bit of dark humor on there and I'm like, my gosh, you watch this like I'm laughing but I feel like

a little embarrassed that I'm laughing at it. Like Jason and he, like, he just thinks it's hilarious. Whereas he comes on mine and it's like all Taylor Swift. So like very different algorithms, but yet people are building content for different people. And so that's the whole point of like these practices. Like you're not meant to serve every person. You're meant to serve the people that you were like truly destined to serve. And I think that's what I love about dentistry is the lives that we get to change and the magic we get to create. Like you create that magic for these owners of being able to see like

their work come to life, like you said, the masterpiece while dentists are being able to create those smiles for all these patients and let their life become a masterpiece as well. So I just think it's lovely. I really do. And I think, I think we downplay how incredible we are. And I think I'm here to propose like there might be a better way, obviously not in the egotistical way, but in the way of like, I did do some good things and I did take some hard risks and I did it because I want to serve these people. Yeah.

Like there's nothing like we should be sharing that more. And obviously people know my mission is to positively impact the world of dental. And I'm like, the way you do that is by showing up as you and you do that by, doing these things day in and day out. So I think it's just, it's a lovely thing that you guys do. And I would say if you haven't gone through the brand exercise or had your photography or had the videos, like try it. Because like you said, I think you get a zoom out from someone else's perspective and see your life and not in an egotistical way, just in a like, dang.

The Dental A Team (28:09.002)

Like I have done a few things in this world and I think it makes the suck days of success not as hard. because you're like, wow, there has been something that's been made. So again, this wasn't the intent of the podcast. just naturally came probably cause I put the sweatshirt on. feel more in studio EightyEight mode. Well, I think here's kind of one of my, my recent thesis because I was reworking a keynote recently and for next year. And I was like, we're

If marketing is all just about data and KPIs and analytics and all this stuff, we just, we just end up with this kind of like empty thing of just literally trying to drive traffic to get this knowing like, okay, for every thousand people we convert at like 2%. So like, let's, let's get 10,000 people in and a hundred thousand people. And we're, driving traffic for the sake of this like minimal possible conversion. And I think just in our world, and it's going to have to be like this as we move forward, people need to feel some.

And that's the side of marketing we don't talk a lot about. And I'm actually very empathetic to it because on one side we've got ROI and KPIs and data and we can prove something's working. And to be honest, it's easier to throw a couple thousand dollars at Google and end up with new patients in the chair than it is to go, how do I build a brand? Because that's so subjective and it feels like it's all like feeling and things and the way photography makes people feel and the way they connected with this video and.

the user experience on the website, like how many clicks do they have to go? It's all that very subjective, like subtle stuff and building a brand is hard. Like there's, there's not a lot of checkpoints along the way. Like, I doing a good job? You know, our son recently left for college about six weeks ago. He went to university Cincinnati, which is about two hours away. So he's not so far, but I remember that whole thing of, as soon as he decides he's going to Cincinnati, it starts this clock like,

as a parent, you're just like on the clock. It's like, there's okay, 45 days till he's gone and start shrinking. And what I probably wasn't prepared for is it really smacks you in the face with this one major question, which is, did we do enough? Because now the time is, it almost is like the time is shrinking. You've got 45 days left. Did you do enough the last 18 years? Cause now he's leaving and, that's, it's a, it's a tough question. Like were we enough? And especially on Joanna's side, it was, it was very

The Dental A Team (30:31.018)

You know, there's a lot of emotion to it. Like I got 45 days. had these 12 conversations I need to have with them. And, but you're also like, but I can't shove them in that time either. You just have to trust. And I go back to like, okay, so how would I know that I was a good parent? There's no data. There's no KPIs. There's no like ROI on this along the way. But I remember things like there was this moment, like when he was eight and I watched him interact with some adults and he used some manners and you're like, okay, like

I actually can't believe he learned that, you I remember his very last volleyball game as a varsity in high school, they went to the regional finals and they ended up losing. And so it was like this emotional night, but one of the dads came up to us and said, hey, I just need to tell you, like, Kaden's been a great leader on this team. His son was a freshman. And he said, they were very intentional about, this is not just the seniors team, this is all their team.

taking what they learned and pouring it into the freshmen. said, you may or may not hear that all the time, but he said, your son is not only a great leader, but he's a great man. And my son just looks up to him so much. And it's moments like those where you're like, okay, I might've done enough, you know? But it's in building a brand is a lot like that. It's just, hard to get your hands around. And so I think that's sometimes why we skew the other way of just give me data, let me throw money at it, give me data, give me KPIs. And then it's either it's working or it's not working. And we move on to the next thing.

where building a brand is like, it's two years, five years, 10 years, it's a lifetime, but it's harder. Yeah. And I think it's important for doctors to realize in teams that what you're building is a legacy for as long as you're doing it for. It doesn't have to be a lifetime forever, but you are building a brand and you are a brand and what you're doing is changing lives. so recognizing that, and I think like,

not to add so much weight to it that it feels daunting, but to add enough weight where you realize like what you're doing is important and what you're creating in those patients. Like I don't think I was on a podcast earlier and I said in dentistry, we're not heart surgeons, but we are smile surgeons and giving that confidence to our patients. I think that we undermine possibly the incredible work that we're doing for society and the confidence we're able to give all these patients.

The Dental A Team (32:51.942)

is something that I do think is worthwhile. like the patients need to find out, they need to find you because otherwise they're gonna go to someone else and not to say another dentist isn't as good, but I guarantee you the doctors that are listening to this podcast and the ones that are working with companies like Studio EightyEight you're the ones that I would want my patients to go to and my family to go to. so it's like when we're in a world where anybody can be found, we need to have our best doctors standing out. And I believe that that's our moral obligation to serve patients at the highest level.

Just like I believe the best doctors need to be out there and the best surgeons need to be out there because like we only have one set of teeth. And so if you can help save more teeth and more smiles, I think it's like it's a no brainer that you need to have your brand and your business very, very readily available. So Josh, I just love this podcast. I felt all the feels. I feel like so many doctors just need to share their stories. And so people are interested. How do they work with Studio EightyEight? How do they connect with you? Like I said, you guys, I have gone through, I think everything Studio EightyEight does.

I've done their brand, I've done their photography, I've done their websites. It's an incredible experience and it's very easy. So how can people even just dip their toe into this if they're interested? Yeah, for sure. A couple of best ways to reach out. Number one, I'm on Instagram at Joshua Scott. So I'm still in my accounts and DMs. So just send me a message if you heard this podcast. Just even say, hey, I heard the Dental A Team podcast. You'll get a response from me. Ask me anything.

I'm more or less, I'm like, I'll offer you advice all day long. I'll take a look at your stuff and just give you my professional opinion on it. and then if you want to reach out to studio EightyEight or get specifics there, it's, go to the website, s8e8.com letter S number 8 letter E number 8.com. there's a bunch of buttons there. can submit to get in touch with somebody and they can walk you through our packages and what we do and see if it's potentially a good fit for you. I love it. I would say if nothing else.

Just make sure that you are, you're sharing your story like the little story worth of our parents because that's so important for people to see you you don't have to be the video. You don't have to be all the different things. You do it on your level and your terms of what you are. But I do believe that the world needs you. Patients need you. So in the most loving way, don't be selfish and like hide yourself away, share yourself because this world needs you. Josh, thanks for being on the podcast today. It was such a good time with you. Of course. I always enjoy it. Appreciate it.

The Dental A Team (35:14.154)

Yeah, none of this was scripted, which is a ton of fun. You just kind of get on and, you know, when you can talk to a friend and it just goes wherever it's, it's always a lot of fun. It's a good time. And for all of you listening, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#913: How To Win Your Patients Over
7 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
Kiera is a guest on Dr. Gallagher’s Podcast in this crossover episode! There is a lot of important ground covered here, including how to establish the ideal practice flow, the differences in consulting between speciality and general practices, why being a human being feels like a lost art, how to hire the best people, and more.

Episode resources:

Listen to Dr. Gallagher’s Podcast: Apple, Spotify, YouTube

Reach out to Tiff, Britt, and Dana

Tune Into DAT’s Monthly Webinar

Practice Momentum Group Consulting

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Become Dental A-Team Platinum!

Review the podcast

Transcript:

Brendan (00:02.346)

Of the Dental A Team, this is Kiera Dent, right? So this is, I love that it's dent because there's dental dentin, part of the tooth and stuff. So it's just perfect. It really worked well. And you have a consulting agency, right? Dental A Team. And how many years have you been in around?

Kiera Dent (00:16.95)

Yeah.

Kiera Dent (00:25.494)

Thank you.

Kiera Dent (00:30.976)

Yeah, so we've, the company is almost eight years old. She's about to have her eighth birthday in November, but yeah, it's been fun. It was a complete random idea that I came up with to start it, honestly, to help a bunch of dental students and here we are. So it's been a really fun place to be.

Brendan (00:49.738)

Two more months and eight years, congrats!

Kiera Dent (00:51.796)

I know. Thank you. Thank you. It came from, I worked at Midwestern University's Dental College for three years while my husband did pharmacy school. And one of the students straight out of school said, hey, Kiera, I want you to come help me start my practice. And I said, my gosh, like, absolutely. I've always wanted to be a practice owner. I was a dental assistant and a treatment coordinator and an office manager prior. And so I went and I helped her start her practice and

We took our practice from 500,000 to 2.4 million in nine months and opened our second location. And then I thought, my gosh, like if I could help her do this, there's all my other like favorite dental students. Like I'm sure I could probably be a resource and a help for them. And so that's really what spurred the consulting company. I had never worked with a consultant before. And then I started helping practices and adding, you know, 25,000 of production to their schedules very quickly. I was adding, increasing case acceptance to a hundred percent.

within one day and I just thought, okay, there's something about this and it doesn't have to be hard, but I'm gonna be a resource for all those dentists in school because you guys go to school and you're so passionate about what you're doing, but then there's the business side of it. And so if I could be a resource, a trusted resource, knowing what you're learning in school, so that way you guys can be so successful, positively impact your world, help your community, help your team, help your patients, and you guys are living your best lives.

That really is what spurred me into being a consultant. So here we are all with the love. have no clue what consultants should do. I just keep making up what I believe my students from Midwestern would want to have and just keep coming from love of you guys, just doing the best to support dentistry and us supporting you in that vision.

Brendan (02:30.004)

Excellent. And so you're not at Midwestern anymore. That was only in the beginning for those years. So roughly eight years ago.

Kiera Dent (02:33.068)

Mm -mm. Yep. Yep. I worked there for three years. No, so three years. And then I went and I worked in Colorado for two years. And then I started the company in 2016. Yeah, 2016. So it was great. It was a good time. And here we are now, eight years later.

Brendan (02:48.904)

And in Colorado, that was the practice that you brought them from X to that would be roughly five X. Wow. Well done. Well done. So they started for a year there. You knew them. You had a good rapport, good relationship with them over a year or two. You grew it from that. then you're like, and that's when you decided, OK, let's scale. How did you take that next step from there? So it was just you working at her practice. Right. And then from there, you said.

Kiera Dent (02:55.008)

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Thanks.

you

Kiera Dent (03:08.384)

Totally.

Kiera Dent (03:13.344)

Mm -hmm. Yep.

Brendan (03:16.136)

So you don't work with her anymore. was like a see you later. I'm going to figure it better.

Kiera Dent (03:18.072)

No. It was incredible. And we had such a good run. And I have to give mad kudos to her as a dentist, because I think we were really a dynamic duo. I came in with amazing like management and TC skills. We both didn't know what we were doing. And I think that that's part of doctors opening practices. But kudos to her for bringing me on because she knew I knew pieces she didn't know how to do.

but yeah, it was, I think more her vision. We both were very gung -ho. We wanted to serve more. We wanted to have a bigger impact and footprint. And so it was, we got this practice going and then we bought our second location and then there ended up getting like seven practices all together. But things I learned from that was, it was over the course of like five, six, I ended up leaving. She continued. and it was something very interesting that those are like sexy numbers to put up on a scoreboard and.

Brendan (04:00.019)

In two years?

Kiera Dent (04:12.268)

Everybody always has the bright eyes of like, my gosh, like how did you do that? But I think my obsession has come, like her and I were both on like death row. Like we were working 2 a to 10 p It was insanity to try and get that success. And while yes, there's sexy numbers on the board, we both realized that there's more to life than what we were doing. And are we gonna just like slay and try and drive this through or is there maybe something more to this? so yes, it was, we did part ways and I'm just so proud of everything that she created.

But I, like one, my marriage, my life, all of those things were falling apart. And I realized me traveling back and forth from Reno Tahoe area to Colorado all the time was just really hard on my marriage. I wasn't seeing my husband. I was completely anorexic. I was like 98 pounds and I'm 5 '8". And it was just, everything felt like it was deteriorating. And so that was where it had to be like, let's do a step back. Her life was deteriorating. And I thought...

there has to be a better way to success than what we've done. Like, yes, we've got sexy numbers to throw up on the board. Yes, we've got all these cool things, but is there not a better way that we can do this where you can have an incredible family and you can have incredible numbers and you can have a thriving business. And that really has become my passion and obsession is helping more dentists live a fulfilled life, hitting up those sexy big numbers or whatever they want to do, but still maintain their life, their identity, their freedom is really what I'm obsessed with within our company and our culture.

and really helping dentists get that life.

Brendan (05:41.89)

yeah, and that's such a great pitch to where it's let's let's seize that life that we dreamed of again. love that now in where it started to get a little rocky there speaking of Colorado, but while it started to happen was that the first two years when you were there was that within the five six years when she scaled to seven or so practices first two

Kiera Dent (05:47.68)

Yeah.

Kiera Dent (05:51.634)

Hahaha

Kiera Dent (05:55.564)

Mm

Kiera Dent (05:59.692)

No, so that was my first two years. Yeah, absolutely. And both of us were there. And I think that that happens, right? You've got all the student debt. I used to call her 2.5, like when she's hunched over, not like good ergonomics. I'm like, hey, 2.5, we're 2.5 million debt. Like with student loans, the practice acquisition, within our first couple of months of owning the practice, our building was being torn down. So we had to move our patient base to another location, build up another practice. So

And I think oftentimes it's how people come out, right? Like you've got a lot of debt, you've been sitting in residency for so long, or you've been in school for so long or whatever it is, or you're an associate and you feel like, okay, I bought this practice. I think there's this like innate desire to just hit the ground running, but we forget that that can only sustain for so long. Like we are human bodies, we are not human robots. And realizing that there's...

so much that can happen. We also were very naive. We did not have systems in place and we just kept adding more fuel to our fire that was already burning and blazing bigger than we were. And so we got to a good place. We were hiring other doctors, but I think that that's where my obsession has come of, like, let's give systems. And I just got off a podcast with one of our doctors that we work with and her and her husband are kind of thriving and jamming the same way I was.

But what they've done differently is we like, we're really specific of let's get all these systems in place before we buy our second location. And like, let's slow to grow rather than like fly to die. Like it was a very different model and they're thriving and they're happy and their marriage is incredible. There's different, like both are available to us. I think I'd prefer, let's take the, take the sustainable route that's very doable that keeps your passion alive rather than killing you off at the beginning.

Brendan (07:46.548)

Yeah, yeah. So when you translate into systems and processes, I, so coming from a clinician, a provider background system and processes, I have an idea, you know, like the system I'm thinking of is like the computer or no, but really in a practice setting, if I could just have some insight to what you mean behind that developing systems and processes before you buy that second practice, what were some of those systems, if I can, if I can know.

Kiera Dent (07:51.178)

Of course.

Kiera Dent (08:01.321)

Yeah.

Kiera Dent (08:06.102)

Sure.

Kiera Dent (08:16.015)

Of course, yeah. And this is what I just geek out on. This is why we have the podcast. It's like tactical, practical with ease. So it's like, do you have a process for how you're doing our billing process? And in Dental A Team, I actually made 12 categories that kind of fall within the 12 months of systems to have. So there's your office management. You've got your practice profitability and your numbers. We have our dental assistants and how we set up our rooms and our operatories. We have our handoffs. We have our

like how we hire and onboard people. We have our operations manual completed. We have our treatment tracker and case acceptance. We have our hygiene protocols to put those into play to make sure our hygiene teams diagnosing and we're treating patients the same way. We have our doctor optimization where we're really working on like, what are the clinical skill sets of our doctors and are we maximizing their skills within? And so those are what I mean by systems. And I'll be completely honest. We were like just two girls flying by the seat of our pants.

So like we did not have a process for billing. We did not have a process for scheduling. It was just like dump it in and we'll figure out how to do it versus like you can have, I mean, I've added multiple millions to people's schedules just by having block scheduling with ease and they're out by four o 'clock, they're out by three o 'clock. We're putting up really hard, like great numbers. The patients are happy, the team is happy. Like literally I have a practice that I took from 2 million to 4 .5 million just by changing their block scheduling.

And so it's like, these are the simple systems that maybe you don't have to go buy another practice unless a DSO or something like that is what you're trying to do. But let's make sure that we have those, because I've also gone to offices and they're like, we're completely maxed out on our space and I find an operatory there. We don't actually have to go buy a bigger building. We can keep it here. We can systematize it here. We can maximize, like, are we doing our handoffs? Are we collecting before they leave? Are we having proper treatment plans?

Are we tracking our case acceptance? Are we watching the things that like our hygiene teams doing? What's our hygienists producing per hour? Are there ways that we can help our patients more? What's our morning huddle? Those systems in place make it clockwork where it's very predictable magic behind the scenes. Like we know we will have magic in our practice because we have systems in place. And maybe we don't have to go for the multi -practices unless that's our drive and our desire, then by all means, let's do it.

Kiera Dent (10:37.408)

but let's make it to where we can stamp it out. I promise you, like you look at McDonald's, think that's the easiest one. They were the crowning jewel of systems. They were not stamping this out haphazardly. They were looking for the efficiency and making it to where each new place would have the same exact experience just in a different location. What's your experience and your practice and how can you go replicate that with ease is really what I mean by systems behind the scenes.

Brendan (10:43.572)

Mmm.

Brendan (11:01.556)

Yeah, and were you doing all this at Midwestern?

Kiera Dent (11:05.67)

No. So at Midwestern, if you recall, I feel like I was your tooth lunch lady. I handed out all the teeth, the composite, the like all the things I don't know in the simulation center. So I worked with the first and second year students and helped with the radiology and all of that. But prior to that, I was a dental assistant, a treatment coordinator, a scheduler, a biller. I just wanted to get a discount on my husband's tuition. I'll be fully honest. And it just had to work out. So then I became this cute little tooth lunch lady. Like, here's your teeth, here's your composite, here's your bands.

Brendan (11:32.958)

Hahaha

Kiera Dent (11:34.99)

And then went and helped her in Colorado and then started helping other dentists just really.

Brendan (11:40.084)

Yeah. And Midwestern, because there are two Midwesterns, there's Arizona and Illinois, right? You were in Arizona, was going to say, because Reno, Nevada. Are you still in Reno, Nevada?

Kiera Dent (11:43.262)

Arizona. We are. Yep. So we still live here. My husband ditches residency here because my family lives over in California. So it was the closest location without paying California tax. Yeah.

Brendan (11:57.16)

Wonderful wonderful and just just just step back to being at Midwestern have you ever seen it like a show or a movie or something where The guy or girl moves the plant that's in the shade into the light and then all of a sudden the flower blooms I Feel like that's where you moved yourself out of the shade into the light not to make the old figurative But I literally see like because because now you're killing it you're consulting with all these practices and stuff doing so no, that's a really

Kiera Dent (12:11.338)

Yes.

Kiera Dent (12:22.262)

Thank you.

Brendan (12:25.662)

First of all, the story is incredible because you've to appreciate someone who takes that hop, skip and a jump gets into the environment. That's a maybe it's a risk and it just they blossom. that's, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to be like a radio show here, but I, know, I really seek for the optimism in people's lives. There's a lot of fear going on these days. There's a lot of skepticism, a lot of conspiracies, and it's really nice to find let's let's hone back in together and let's really get into the nitty gritty of the good things.

Kiera Dent (12:37.568)

Thank you.

Brendan (12:54.898)

and success stories. yeah, so that's just, wanted to touch that really there because I really appreciate that. You know, we need, we need risk takers and we need to admire those and understand how they did it. Okay. So moving on, can you just shout out your podcast on, so everyone knows?

Kiera Dent (12:55.308)

Totally.

Kiera Dent (12:58.7)

Thank you.

Kiera Dent (13:07.916)

Yeah, of course. Yeah, we have the Dental A Team podcast. Gosh, I think I'm about up to, we might have surpassed our 900 mark and headed towards our 1000 mark of episodes. So definitely try to have a ton of resources for free out there. And for any dentists out there listening or students, like I love the students. Clearly I have a very soft spot in my heart for students and residents, people who want to grow. But if you go to our website, TheDentalATeam.com, we have our podcast link.

And literally you go and you type in anything, treatment planning, scheduling, verbiage for dropping insurance, like you name it. I probably have a podcast or two on them and all of our databases there for you. So trying really hard just to give back. and like you said, my goal is to positively impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible and just remind us of how like blessed we are to be able to change people's lives through dentistry. And, I truly believe that owning a practice should not be hard. It does not need to be hard. You can still have everything you want. So yeah.

Our podcast, The Dental A Team, love to have you there. Thank you for that shout out.

Brendan (14:10.314)

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Now continuing, if you can do me a favor and on your Instagram, the bio, if you can just change, I think you changed the name of your handle, your organization, the company, the podcast, that handle changed in your bio. I think it's, might've been an older handle, but you can't click it is what I mean. We just got to fix that. That'll help out your followers so that they can make the link between you and you know, and your consulting group. Just something I noticed, but yeah. So, so moving on for there.

Kiera Dent (14:12.897)

Yes.

Kiera Dent (14:19.965)

Mm

Kiera Dent (14:26.842)

sure.

Kiera Dent (14:32.118)

Yeah.

Thank you.

Brendan (14:37.852)

So you have the pockets you have on providers and stuff. You just had Dr. Jason Auer back on. I just saw him last week at the Amos conference, which is pretty cool. And I had him on the podcast last year. That's a lot of fun. How often do you meet with providers, owners, DSOs versus private practices? I'm curious what the percentages are there. And then the percentages of providers versus do you ever talk with other

Kiera Dent (14:43.36)

Okay.

Brendan (15:06.74)

people that consult for practices.

Kiera Dent (15:09.022)

Yeah, for sure. So hopefully I understood your question. I'll answer and if I missed it, please, I'm here for it. But our consulting primarily focuses on GP practices. We have a really strong pediatric following as well. Some OS, some ortho. We kind of dabble in all of the specialties a little bit, but really GP and our niche is to work with the practice owners. We sometimes will work with their associates, so the doctors and then also the team. As I found,

Like we put so much out there for the doctors. Like everybody is targeting the doctors. Why would they not? The doctors are the buyer, the doctors are the ones running the practice. But I realized if we can elevate the team as well and we can teach the team to think like owners and we can get the team inspired and excited, that's 90 % of the battle of having a successful practice. So we coach both. We raise up office managers. We build leadership teams. We do quarterlies. I do work with startup practices all the way up to multi -level DSOs.

And so really kind of everything in between my sweet spots, usually the two, three, four, five locations is really what I love to do or practice owners who are wanting to grow and possibly sell to a DSO. I love the startups. love to give them the system so they really do well. Exponentially, we have an entire CE online database that's got operations manual and all those pieces, but really my body has physically been in over 250 dental practices. I used to travel about

265 days a year. And so I now have cut that back and I don't travel as much as I used to for work. I do more for fun, but that's really kind of our nutshell. And then we bring all of our doctors together and I love to get doctors to just share. from the brand new owner to the experienced owner, having them collaborate together in mastermind settings where there's so much knowledge, I get to see it. Most people don't get to be in 200 offices. They don't get to work with 200 teams.

But to bring all these teams together and bring all these doctors together, that's where we elevate and lift everybody up. And so it's really fun. So hopefully that answered your question, but if not, ask any other ones about that.

Brendan (17:15.124)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that definitely answers it. And what kind of percentages are you at now versus in the beginning working with DSOs versus smaller private practices? I'm curious.

Kiera Dent (17:23.66)

Gotcha. So we're more like, I would say 90 % are our private practices and 10 % are the DSOs. However, a lot of our practices do sell to those larger DSOs, which I think is just a common piece right now. But I am very pro not, I don't have a one size fits all. Our consulting is very much, what does that doctor want to do? And some doctors are like, Kiera, I get emails from DSOs every other day, but that's not what I want to do.

And my job's not to say like, let's build it to sell to a DSO. My job is to say, Brendan, what life do you want to have? What do we want to do? Where do you want to be? Like, what do you want your financial retirements to be? How much time do you want off from the practice? And let's build your practice to suit your life and fulfill your life. Because if you are happy and thriving, everything else will fall into place.

Brendan (18:10.516)

Yeah, I would like everything else to fall into place one day. Hopefully nine months after graduating, that's the goal. I did already sign with a practice. It's a multi -practice out on Long Island. How many practices have you worked with on Long Island?

Kiera Dent (18:12.492)

It will.

Kiera Dent (18:20.351)

Amazing.

Long Island, I've actually had two over there. So I've definitely been up in that area. I had a practice in the Bronx, definitely not dental 365. I used to work with an office named Brian Stimler. He was out there and then there was another office in there just slipping. This was, mean, we're talking six years ago that was in Long Island. I like, I could see them. I just cannot remember their name. I'll look it up post show and let you know.

Brendan (18:27.786)

10 .0365, who, who, can I know?

Kiera Dent (18:46.829)

But yeah, I'm flying out to Canadaigua on Sunday to go and work with a practice up there. So I still come out that way, but I don't have any more on Long Island.

Brendan (18:56.02)

That's all right. Wow. Okay. So you're all over the U S Canada at all. Cause you mentioned.

Kiera Dent (18:59.198)

Mm -hmm. So I have consulted in Canada. I've consulted in Australia and New Zealand as well. I was trying to do the whole international thing. We have lots of listeners international, which is super fun. But I almost got deported from Canada on one of my visits. after that, which I thought Canada of all the places. So almost the client told me just to say I was going for fun. so I did. They like searched my phone.

Brendan (19:15.546)

What? How did that happen?

Kiera Dent (19:27.722)

They were like, what are your clients? What do you do? Like, what do these friends do? They're dentists and they told me, technically I'm allowed to go over there to collect data without a visa, but if not, that they could deport me. I was so scared. I've never been that scared in my entire life. I was shaking. I definitely went and visited by Niagara Falls. Like I literally was a whole complete tourist. I told my clients like, I'm sorry, we'll not be doing anything. We still have a good giggle from that time. But yeah, after that, I just stopped.

Traveling International for development.

Brendan (19:57.802)

Is that by plane, car? Like what?

Kiera Dent (20:00.308)

It was in the airport. I should have. So it's funny. I was actually in Canandaigua and their practice was in Toronto and it was like a two, maybe a two hour drive across the border. And I should have done that. But my assistant at the time, like we were just new, we were young and I had someone booking travel for me. And so she flew me back to Newark and then flew me to Toronto. And when I did that going through Toronto customs, I was rookie.

The things I did wrong one I was dressed like a business professional on a Saturday Two I was trying to be so super ultra honest and put that I had peanuts like I had nuts in my bag Which was so dumb like I wasn't eating it there like I don't know what my thought process was on it And I remember getting a pink line across my little document going into Canada Which sent me to the right not to the left. I was sitting there waiting forever then I started to wonder like

Why am I in this line? Like usually this is a faster thing. Then I started to get nervous. like I have contracts and things like that in my email. Luckily when I got up there, the lady was not having any, anything like we were not getting onto good terms. Like they're very strict at border control. And luckily my, they're so mean.

Brendan (21:14.794)

They are like for like it's good to be strict, but you're there for business. What's wrong with I don't like why are they stopping? I don't know what and the peanuts. What's wrong with peanuts?

Kiera Dent (21:22.152)

So they say, are you bringing any nuts with you? And I was like, why did I say yes to that? Just don't eat them while you're over there if you accidentally, or throw them away. I don't know what my deal was. yeah, but then on my flight back, my client was like, you're fine. You got over. And I said, I don't think I'm fine. And truth be told, when I went back to the airport, there's a code that they'll put on some tickets. I couldn't check in. So when I was flying back, I wasn't allowed to check in on.

line said go to the airport. I printed my ticket and I got four S's on my boarding pass, which then meant I got searched up and down left and right. The really cool thing is because I do work in dental offices, my bag and my shoes actually flagged that I had bomb making materials on me. They asked what I do for work and what my husband does for work, found out we were in healthcare, which I mean, there are some things that we do have in dental offices that probably could contribute.

Brendan (21:56.554)

no, yeah.

Kiera Dent (22:20.214)

So when they found out I worked in healthcare, I was allowed to go, everything was fine. I got to the gate, I got searched again at the gate, and then finally I was able to fly back home. So I have never been so excited to see the US flag flying after. So that was my end of international consulting. I've still consulted people in Canada, but they have to come over to the US. I'll meet them right at the border, but we do it all in the US now. So that was a good lesson learned early on.

Brendan (22:46.665)

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, fair enough. And you could probably do a bit virtual. Why do you need to meet in person? I'm curious.

Kiera Dent (22:54.74)

Yeah. So that was like really what I built the company on and we've since shifted and whatnot. But what I found was like going to people's offices, like I went to one office, I'd been consulting them for about six months and I walked in and they had paper charts. Never once did paper charts come up on any of our calls. And I'm like, excuse me, we have paper charts in this office. Like how was that never a conversation? And what I realized is what me as a consultant might see that maybe isn't like

a good flow or good things, a dentist who's been doing this for years might not even know that that's abnormal. And so sometimes being able to see the practice can really help. It can really help us evaluate. We can get the team on board. So that's been something that's been really fun. But we've also now learned that, like, I think after seeing so many practices myself, we know a lot more of the questions to ask of the team pieces of the flow. There's different ways. mean, COVID really helped exponentially grow that virtual piece. And honestly, we can get, I would say,

We're like 98 % as good of results virtually as we were getting in person. So the only thing I think people miss is just like us being with their teams. So now we're flying all of our doctors and teams together. So we're still able to influence. And we learned through COVID, we did virtual team events and teams love it. Like we ship swag boxes and we really learned how to have this like fun, engaging experience virtually that teams get bought into. And then it's cheaper for the doctors not to have to fly an entire team.

Brendan (23:58.548)

if could.

Kiera Dent (24:22.092)

to a location as well.

Brendan (24:23.956)

Right, right, right, right. I just thought of a couple things to ask you really quickly. Have you ever met Paul Vigario of SurfCT? No, okay, they're an IT company. They do a bunch of things, but you were mentioning kind of, I forget the exact word you used, but you were saying like building up and motivating the team of the dental office. He uses the word empower, which I thought was interesting. I didn't know if you guys had crossed paths or something, but he would be a good person to connections in the network. The other thing is I could,

Kiera Dent (24:31.658)

I have not. That'd be a one.

Kiera Dent (24:42.221)

Mm

Kiera Dent (24:50.944)

Yeah.

Brendan (24:53.8)

I wanted to ask you because you like to go your at least you started the business by going in person to these offices. Do you have any recommendations that you make as far as the flow? Because you have the waiting room and then you have the operatories and all double chairs. Maybe if consult consulting group, consult rooms and follow up rooms next to them. And then towards the end on the way out, it's different from the entrance because people got dental treatment and they got to make that payment. Hopefully before they leave the office. Is that anything that you evaluate and make better or

Kiera Dent (25:19.717)

Mm -hmm.

Kiera Dent (25:23.564)

Totally. Yeah. One of my offices, they're a very big booming practice. They do over 14 million a year in one location. And I went up to their office and it's kind of my running joke. said, you guys, I don't even want to put this on my resume that I did this for your practice. We're talking big booming practice, huge practice. They've been doing amazing for years. What I implemented in their practice were flowers that I went and bought from the store.

and put in vases at their checkout location because what I noticed is they were not getting a high of cases closed because there was no privacy. It was too big of a thing. And I also noticed the flow was really confusing because people were coming from both directions and they were actually running into each other. Patients were backing up, patients were leaving. And I'm I'm kind of embarrassed that like, Kiera Dent came in, Dental A Team, and I put flowers on your checkout.

But what happened was their case acceptance skyrocketed. The patient flow I practiced with the entire team. Because what's crazy is those little things we don't think about, but the patient experience exponentially increases and our case acceptance goes up exponentially. So I'm like a miracle girl in practices. Case acceptance is my jam. Having really smooth flows for practices is really what I love to do. And so yes, in my perfect world, if I get to see your blueprints before you build the practice,

Always having an in and an out because it really helps but if like the practice is how it is Let's figure out flows Sometimes I'll just add a little bench by the checkout where people can actually seat their patients so the patient's not leaving the door Little different things where you can hand like a route slip or anything of communication like the baton passing between the front and the back office so that way everything is just so clean and what's going on between the front to the back and having that flow very

very easy. But yeah, that's something I really love to see. Because just one small little thing or in big offices, I do like a direction and a flow of traffic. So that way we're getting all patients going through one door, getting them to check out, there's a set process. I call it like the HOV lane or the like, so they're just a quick checkout, like a speedy checkout, send them to this person. If they're a longer one, put them here, have different people that are better with different skill sets at those two seats.

Brendan (27:16.394)

Interesting.

Brendan (27:30.378)

I like that.

Kiera Dent (27:41.61)

Sometimes on the check -in, I'll have people take payments, so we're not backing them up. In really large practices, when they start to get bigger and bigger, I will start to have the clinical team, like very easy. If they just need a fluoride payment, just swipe that card in the back, very easy. We can get credit cards on file. And then there's checks and balances to make sure none of it gets missed because more hands in pots can oftentimes lead to chaos. But if it's a systematized way, you can do so much with a flow and make everybody's life so much easier.

Brendan (28:09.738)

Absolutely. So then at least to my next question and right on that, virtually, how do you assess someone's patient flow and the routes and finding that HOV lane?

Kiera Dent (28:18.348)

So, oftentimes we will still go to practices, but if I'm not in a practice, it's really simple. Like do a little FaceTime video with me, like walk me through your practice, show me what your patients are doing. and what's really fun about our consulting is when you've seen so many offices, you can like within 10 minutes of being in a practice, I already know what they could do to improve very quickly. Cause you just see it. It's like we're playing a game and I spot it. And so just do a fast, easy FaceTime. I've got an office right now and

We work through their entire flow virtually and everything's moving really well. So just an easy FaceTime or a Zoom will take me around the whole office and we can just pick up a small little change here or there.

Brendan (28:59.998)

that a lot. Are you only working with general dentistry? Can you come over and work in oral surgery at least a little bit? Maybe.

Kiera Dent (29:05.782)

course. Yeah, we have three OS offices right now. So yes, we do branch out to other specialties. OS is fun. I like working with GPs that did implants and things which I get there's a world of like OS you're more trained. GPs love to dabble. I think like I'm not here for that debate but I am here for I love OS. I think OS is so awesome the things that we can do for patients I think.

being able to give people confidence back, being able to do it with so much ease. I love surgery, I love surgery cases, I love implants, I love bone grafting. We did a ramus and we harvested the ramus for an implant and it did not go well. So I have a lot of respect for MaxoFacial who do it well because ours was not a good experience. But it's just fascinating the thing. So yes, we definitely work in OS and help with that.

Brendan (29:43.08)

A lot of fun, yeah.

Kiera Dent (30:04.202)

And they're just different things.

Brendan (30:04.532)

You said, yeah, you said three office. Is it three different offices or like one organization or the three different organizations? Okay. Okay. It is one of the max. I'm curious, max, Dr. Iraq's.

Kiera Dent (30:09.652)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. No, no. I would love to just go see how they do it because I think I'd learn so much. And that's the other fun thing. I am always, I tell offices, I'm like, I'm here to teach you any tip and piece that can make your life easier, but I'm also here to learn from you too. So much of what we do in our consulting, yes, came from experiences and things we brought to it.

But there's so many great ideas that I see in offices that I'm obsessed with. I've seen really awesome ways to cut down supply costs just with tip -out bins. I've seen awesome ways with flow. I've seen really awesome things with things you do in the waiting room. There's just so many cool things when you go and see offices. So I would love to go see Mac's offices. What are they doing? What's their patient experience like? What's their team experience like? Because offices...

Brendan (30:45.567)

Mm.

Brendan (31:01.587)

Yeah.

Kiera Dent (31:05.164)

It's usually dependent upon the owner doctor. I'm like, you can easily, I usually within like five or 10 minutes of meeting a team, I can tell, will they be successful or not? And most of it is due to the owner doctor and how they are. Dr. Jason, he's incredible. He has such a heart of gold. He's very committed to where he's going. I'm like, he, he like plants success everywhere he goes because of who he is. like, his team of course is thriving. know they're thriving without even seeing his office. So yeah, it'd be really fun to go see him.

Brendan (31:14.452)

Hmm

Brendan (31:34.132)

They are, they really are. And you need to meet Megan Dwyer too. She's like his go -to, maybe you know of her though. Yeah, they are, their organization is pretty incredible. Of the DSOs, I would put them at the top of the list, I think. Moving forward, I'm very curious to see, because they're fairly new. They've been in it for a bit, but they're fairly new. I'm curious to see where they go. I still have a couple more questions if you have some more time. What's, so here's a quick one. What's something you like to spot the,

Kiera Dent (31:34.986)

Thank

Kiera Dent (31:47.104)

Mm

Kiera Dent (31:57.546)

Yeah, of course I do. Yeah, absolutely.

Brendan (32:03.838)

The gaps, I love that. What's one difference you see in oral surgery offices that's different from the general dentist office?

Kiera Dent (32:11.3)

Wes is just big treatment plans most of the time. Like it's a, we're not, we're there to build a relationship. We're there to love them, but we're not there. Like you're not there Dennis forever. Like you guys are there for very much a specialty. And so like the way you schedule an OS practice compared to how I schedule a GP practice, the relationship building with an OS practice, a lot of it's going to be relationship building with all your GPS in the area where GPs.

are more about just attracting patients in. So that's something I see a lot, but OS is, I think OS is helping the doctors. OS has a reputation of like, pop that anesthetic in, take the teeth out and off they go. It's kind of a little bit more, it is a little more rash. And so just helping those doctors realize like that experience is getting you the reputation all the way out. Like you're an incredible surgeon.

Brendan (32:59.06)

more rash. Yeah.

Kiera Dent (33:08.372)

Make sure the bedside manners match your expertise. Make sure that patient feels your love for them because dentistry is such an intimate experience. Like nowhere do you let a stranger put their fingers in your mouth. Like it's just, weird. Like we literally let these strangers do it. It's very weird. And so helping those, is. And then a lot of OS, I noticed that they're such brilliant surgeons that they struggle with team dynamics a lot.

Brendan (33:19.388)

It is. It's your mouth. Yeah.

Very vulnerable, yeah.

Kiera Dent (33:35.424)

That's something I noticed more so in OS than I noticed in GP. so helping them see like you are this incredible surgeon and I want you to be the expert there. And I also want you to be a human to your team. Like Dr. Jason is, he is a very different OS. He doesn't have that chip. He doesn't have the, which I mean, my husband's in medicine too. And there's some surgeons who have that chip on their shoulder and they're total jerks. And like I watched even in the healthcare, some doctors are such

Brendan (33:36.088)

Kiera Dent (34:03.67)

jerks to their team. And I'm like, you get so much more further if your team's behind you than you do by like barking orders at them or telling them. And I understand surgery is stressful. Like if we mess up, the surgery has some not so great side effects to it. And so I understand the need for that perfection, but I'm like, teach your team with those perfect systems that you want it perfect every time and then love on them when they do great things too is something I noticed. Now that's not like

Brendan (34:13.524)

Mm -hmm.

Kiera Dent (34:32.006)

blanket statement because there's GP doctors that have that need that exact same advice. But that is something I think it's just OS is it's fast. It's like shucking teeth all day long and

Brendan (34:42.046)

Yeah, no, it's so it's so disappointing though. And I completely connected with that. I'm surrounded by such brilliant people. Some of the people that have gotten just at my program, don't want to mention the program, but at my program surrounded by other oral surgery surgeons and residents that have gotten the top scores in the country. And but there's just such a disconnect where they're like, they just think it's taken out teeth. And I get made fun of for taking a long, I like to take a long time at the consult. I'll ask you three times before you walk out. Are there any questions that I can answer for you? You know, I don't care if that's annoying.

or if I'm taking too long and the assistants are bugging me or making fun of me from the hallway and stuff. But it's that patient experience. It's exactly what you said. And I make a lot of content on the side, make fun of that too. But no, I'm really connecting with you on that. It's such an important thing. And I cannot stand that ego. I don't care if you have a DDS and an MD. We are human beings. And outside of the clinic, you're Josh. You're just Peter. You know, I'm just Brendan, right?

Kiera Dent (35:38.956)

Thank

Brendan (35:41.066)

You're not talking to this and that. And you know, obviously there's so many amazing people out there and you know, those are some of my friends. So I'm not talking about them, but it's an interesting thing. It's so weird to find such a predominance of that ego and elevated mindset. And I've found dentists who are just the same exact thing too. For another time though, but yeah, feel like we're going on to that. But it does, comes down to the patient experience. And I really do appreciate that.

Kiera Dent (36:02.861)

you

Kiera Dent (36:09.398)

for sharing.

Brendan (36:11.074)

man, I just missed there were another two things that I had lined up ready to go. shouldn't have said anything.

Kiera Dent (36:18.49)

No, you're good. I think though, as you said that, I think the greatest thing that doctors can do is build that confidence in your patient. I tell all my treatment coordinators and consultors and doctors, I'm like, they are not here buying dentistry. They are buying your confidence. They are buying your, that you're going to get the best results because I'm like, people forget that like we live in dental Tinder.

Like there is another dentist, there's another maxofacial somewhere else that can get like, they can do the same thing. And I'm like, they're buying you, they're buying your confidence, they're buying what you can give them of the dream and the hope. And so yes, like I love to ask what questions do you have for me? I want you to be rock solid leaving here. That helps that patient know one, what questions do you have for me is great. It's open -ended. I'm getting them to say yes to me rather than no to me.

Two, I'm telling them how I want them to feel. I want them to feel rock solid, confident, moving forward. What questions do you have for me? If they tell me they want to check with their spouse, absolutely, I want you to check with your spouse. What questions do think your spouse will ask you? That way I can make sure you're fully prepared for it. That's my way I can get past it and find out what's really taking this patient back. When they're like, hey, I need to check my work schedule, absolutely no problem.

Let's add you to the schedule. So me, Kiera Dent, who's ditzy over here, doesn't forget about you, Brendan. I never want to let you slip through the cracks. I'll just pop you on the schedule. You give me a call when you get to work, if that doesn't work for you, because I would hate to let you slip through the cracks. So many little things where we're making that patient the VIP. I feel like in today's world, it's funny because we think that there's so much competition out there, but I'm like, it's actually really easy to stand out and it's called being kind. I think the world has gone through the COVID crank.

I think we've become very self -centered in a lot of ways in the world. And I'm like, the greatest way for us to give incredible patient experience is to be kind, to show up as a human being, to sit knee to knee with them on their level. Like you said, what questions do you have for me? I think we've kind of forgotten how to be human beings. We've become human robots. And that's how you can actually stand out in today's world. I'm like, it's such an easy way to get an edge is to just be kind and to treat them.

Kiera Dent (38:27.828)

and make sure that they're rock solid confident is going to be the way to win those patients. And then like, I don't care whatever you do have great bedside manners. but I remember my ER doctor when I had an appendix burst, I loved my ER doctor, I loved him and he was so busy, but he made me feel so taken care of. And my husband went out to while I was waiting in the room and he's like, our doctor is literally running between rooms, but as soon as he gets the door, he like walks in so slow and like, Kiera I'm here, whatever questions you have.

and then would like book it as soon as he left the room. I never felt that rush. I felt like he was taking great care of me. And I think that's a great way for all dentists to have an edge and to win the patients that need to be served by you.

Brendan (39:11.21)

Yeah, you need to have that humanistic quality to you it and just back to you were saying how it's like tinder There's always another it's like there's always gonna be another oral surgeon who's taller. There's always gonna be on their dentists That's better looking That's that's so funny And just just a few more questions. I I got back to it by the way the Within those first two years, I'm curious I want to just just if we could touch into the secret sauce a little bit here

Kiera Dent (39:23.628)

Sure.

Kiera Dent (39:28.768)

Yep. Good.

Brendan (39:40.884)

Cause I'm going to start in this practice next August, August 15th. And I am, I want to, I want you to come over and do a whole revamp and we figure out what's going on. The offices, the practices, I'll pay for it. However we got to do it. But within those first two years, I'll be working for someone, but you were with someone who had started her own practice or was working in.

Kiera Dent (39:59.724)

Nope, we started it. We bought it from a retiring doctor. Yep.

Brendan (40:01.61)

Start from there. What were some of those key things, maybe two or three things, if you could touch on them that got her from the, regardless of the numbers, but what got really the scaling going? You said systems and processes, so you got those going. Is there another one or two things that I should be looking for in my first two years? I got a two -year contract, that's where I signed. I want to be a partner there one day. What's something I should be looking into to find or bring to the table to be that missing piece, if you can share something, one or two things.

Kiera Dent (40:19.724)

Thank

Mm

Kiera Dent (40:29.78)

Yeah, of course. So I think I'd find out where are the gaps in that practice right now. What are the things that the owner doctor maybe doesn't enjoy doing? Are they really amazing with numbers? Are they really amazing with the team? Are they really amazing clinicians? Because usually people have a natural gravitation to something. And so when I look at practices and partnerships, I work a lot with partners and helping doctors come together.

Brendan (40:40.36)

you

Kiera Dent (40:55.94)

is what's the complimentary piece? So like when I have a husband wife duo in a practice, I'm like, all right, one of you is probably naturally gifted with the team and one of you is probably naturally gifted with numbers. That usually tends to be the dynamic I see with partners. When there's multiple partners in there, we obviously bring different skill sets to the table. But I would say go find out as a partner, if your skill sets the team or if it's numbers, I also say that that can't be your crutch either.

You still need to go learn the other side of it. So that way you can be a resource for them. So just because you might not like numbers, go figure it out, figure out how they do the billing, go talk to the front office, have them like you sit in the chair and physically send the bill. So you understand what that process is like. So you know how you can help support your team as well. And also how you can check and audit the numbers in the books. I really love when doctors come in with an owner mindset and there's also gotta be a level of appreciation.

while there's also confidence. So recognizing that that doctor took all the risk to build this practice for you, I think goes a long way. But then at the same time, you need to come in with something that they don't have that you're going to bring in. really being observant of what don't they like or what are the gaps? How's the team doing? Are we doing team meetings, listening to podcasts? And then also remembering that you're a leader. So I think you leading, no matter if you care to do it or not.

as a doctor, you're just a natural leader to your team. We are always going to follow you. We're always going to respect you because you're our doctor. And so I think those are the pieces, but I feel pretend this was your practice. What things would you have to know? You'd have to know the numbers. You'd have to know what profitability is. You'd have to know what your EBITDA is. You'd have to know the billing processes. You'd have to know how to hire and fire. You'd have to know the HR portion of it. You also have to be a great clinician. And so as you like, usually I say your first six -ish months, you got to be a bang of

clinician. Like I need you to come in, I need you to produce, I want you to do all these things and really learn that mentorship piece and then like start to take on those little pieces of the practice ownership. So when you come to the table, you're not just bringing a check to buy into the practice, you're bringing skills that are very valuable to this practice that's complimentary to what they have already.

Brendan (43:05.994)

Excellent and thank you for that. We actually are doing some stuff on the marketing side so I'm very glad that you mentioned those things. Okay great so we'll be touching base throughout next year. I start August 15th so we'll be doing that. We'll be touching base. Is your work expensive?

Kiera Dent (43:18.355)

I'm caught.

Kiera Dent (43:28.199)

Yeah, of course. So we do online and we do in person and really we try to customize it to your practice. And so all of our fees have always been covered by either the amount we reduce in your overhead or the production we add to your practice. I've never once not had our consulting paid for and we range anywhere from like ,600 a month all the way up to $4 ,500 a month, depending upon the amount that we would be doing, whether we're coming to your practice, whether we're coming out here.

what different pieces we're doing and how much hands -on. But really, my goal is how can we help people succeed and flourish is what I love to do.

Brendan (44:00.468)

next one.

Brendan (44:06.354)

Excellent. And you have a team, I'm sure you have other people who's Shelby, by the way, she's just, she helps coordinates things or.

Kiera Dent (44:12.441)

Yes, Shelby is my executive assistant and our customer success. And she really so she does all of my scheduling and coordinating, which is incredible. And then she also takes care of all of our clients, too. So she's beautiful. She's incredible. I hired her. She was my next door neighbor, actually. And I was like, I was like, this girl takes care of my plants when I'm on the road. She just noticed my plants were dying and started watering them for me. She just like randomly check in on me. She was a waitress. And I'm like,

Brendan (44:28.468)

Amazing! That's great!

Kiera Dent (44:40.138)

This girl loves people so much. want her in my life and on my team. so, yeah, we've worked together for almost four years now and she's just truly incredible.

Brendan (44:50.922)

That's amazing. that's so nice that it's like a family business. Yeah!

Kiera Dent (44:53.44)

So look for good talent. I know, look for good talent everywhere. I've hired people from my next door neighbor. I've hired people from friends of friends. I've hired people from church. You always gotta be on the lookout for incredible talent because those people are the people you want in your life.

Brendan (45:09.428)

How do you find the roles for them in your company? I'm curious, because with one of my marketing startups right now, with the co -founders, that's what we're looking for. We need this and this done. But then finding the right people, you know, on top of the day -to -day, the nine -to -five, you found people at church, neighbor. And they just happened to fit that thing that was missing at that one time, or they molded, you trained them. I'm curious.

Kiera Dent (45:23.98)

Sure.

Kiera Dent (45:31.168)

Thank

both. So I think it's important, like whenever I tell people like, hey, we're going to try and find a role. And we don't know, I just say, great, like, let's write down everything, like, just dump it all on a list of everything that you are either doing, or you need to delegate out or things you'd like to not be doing. And then let's see if we can cluster it. So can we lump tasks together? Like for me, I need someone to book my travel, I need someone to do my emails, check the mail, like take care of my clients when I was on the road.

All that really falls into an assistant role. And then I was able to go find that person. And when I first did it, just dumped everything on a list. I went back with a pink highlighter, my favorite color. And I'm like, these are things that truly only I can do. And it's a good ego test because 90 % of that list is not only you can do. They're probably like 5 or 10%. That truly are tasks that only you can do. And then I looked at the ones that took me the most amount of time. And then I was like, OK.

Who could I hire for this? And that's how I started hiring these different positions. Now, a lot of times, you kind of know an assistant role or an executive assistant role or a manager role or a marketing person. And then I'll either put posts out there, job postings out there. I write my posts. I hate jobs to where I'm like, I don't know. I make them very fun because I really love that person and I want them to come be with us and realize how great of a position this will be for them. But no, there's so much that can be done.

with freelancers, like my first personal assistant I hired for 500 bucks a month. like, I don't even know what I'm having you do, but like, know I need you. So like more tasks will come as you take on more things and I'll just like keep paying you. And so then they just morph. And usually those personal assistants or those assistants that are kind of at random, like jack of all trades, master of nothing, they really just... So I found my first one on Indeed. I hired her. I just put an ad out.

Brendan (47:20.446)

Yeah. Where did you find that person, by the way?

Brendan (47:27.518)

Thank you.

Kiera Dent (47:28.876)

Viva HR is a great resource too, that I love. I'm happy to share a link with all the listeners. It's $99 a month and you can post on all the platforms, unlimited ads. And I was like spending $15 ,000 a year on job postings for a while. This has cut down a huge expense for us. So I do post there. but I write mine very fun. So I like talk about how fun our company is. I talk about our Disneyland retreats. go on, I talk about like, what's your favorite cupcake flavor. So that way it's just very intentional. And then for them to come back to me.

I do tell them they have to respond back with certain things. And if people don't do it, I just weed through. But yeah, the first personal assistant I hired, she was a college student. She came from a great company in the area. And she just loved me from day one. For personal assistants, I have a really good process that I'm happy to share with anyone trying to hire this role, where we make them do certain things like book a trip for me, schedule this dinner thing. And I look to see their thought processes and how long it takes them. So I kind of test them through the interview process.

So she was hired from Indeed. Another one was hired. Shelby was my next door neighbor. But yeah, they just come from all over random. But I found the best people for that role are usually from hospitality. So waitresses, servers, Starbucks. Anyone in that service tanning anything in that world where you've got to really be high end nice. I love a waitress or a waiter because they've got to watch so many people.

Brendan (48:26.388)

Mmm.

Kiera Dent (48:53.376)

They serve a bunch of people. They're very fast paced. Like that's a good person who matches me. I love to bring those people in. but yeah, that's, so that's where I find those people. But indeed, honestly, college towns, a lot of people in college town just want like, I don't need them full time. So they're really good role to bring in part time. But I found the ones that are in college usually are the best ones for that personal assistant. And then

Brendan (48:56.67)

Yes.

Brendan (49:01.642)

Speaking of tanning, yeah, this light isn't doing me any good. But all right, anyways, start, keep going, keep going. I'm very worried.

Kiera Dent (49:21.036)

depending on what they're going into school for. Shelby was going to school for business administration, so it was a perfect match for her. My other one was going to school for teaching, so she was with me through the time she got her degree, and now we're still really good friends after that too.

Brendan (49:34.026)

Amazing. You're brilliant. This is one system in process to another. I really appreciate this. I really do. Excellent.

Kiera Dent (49:38.73)

Thank you. Thank you. I want to make your life easy. So whatever we can do to like simplify and ease people's lives. That's what we're here for.

Brendan (49:47.046)

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on. No, I'm just now you're we're hitting the cap where there's there's a lot to take in here. Can you do me a favor and please go and take a look at Max's offices and everything like within this year so that afterwards that we can talk stealing double things.

Kiera Dent (50:04.46)

Right. Exactly. Well, he's so great because he's been on your podcast earlier today. He just mentioned he was like, everybody thinks they're competitors. And the reality is we're not competitors. There's enough teeth to go around. There's enough like all, all ships rise, like all tides rise all ships. And I love that perspective. I'm like, we need more people like him. I guarantee you if you went and saw his offices, he'd take you around. And that's the type of doctors. Like, we attract these doctors.

Brendan (50:28.84)

I did actually, yeah.

Kiera Dent (50:32.32)

who want to give to others, who want to lift each other up, that want to share their best ideas. And that's what I'm committed to just creating more of because the more we celebrate, the more we share, the more we lift each other up and we give all these ideas, like I will happily give anything I can for you because the more you can succeed, the more you're going to rise other people up with you as well. So why not? The world needs more goodness and more positivity. So let's create it.

Brendan (50:56.21)

It does. does. The one thing because he has a corporation now. It's a big organization. They're amazing. They're beautiful. But then there's going to be certain ceilings and walls and what you can and can't do. Unfortunately. And I was very I saw his offices and he is outstanding and his team is great. They're lot of fun. They're a lot of fun. And I I love that. But I just saw the path to kind of I don't know where I'm going to make it. And I want to try to go towards administrative in addition to

taking out teeth and doing the oral surgery. And I felt that in a DSO, there would be certain boundaries that might prevent that growth. And I'm sure you understand that, right? Especially with your story of the blossoming, right? So yeah, I could do, and then there was one person that their organization hired that I knew of that probably wouldn't work well, but butting heads kind of stuff. So you have to make decisions as you move on. So I'd be very curious if I was to work there.

Kiera Dent (51:47.148)

Sure.

Brendan (51:52.126)

We wouldn't have a future of a project together of building, creating systems and processes. So you know what I mean? Like, and this is kind of like how I like to connect. had a great conversation today. I can't thank you for not coming on. You have such a busy schedule. Shelby's great, by the way. I'm all over the place. It's only me here right now. And one day learning from you, maybe I could scale, but thank you so much for coming on. I'm going to, I'm going to be posting this on whatever platforms we can. I'm sorry that you're recording this with the backwards Riverside. Thanks.

Kiera Dent (51:57.299)

Sure.

Kiera Dent (52:06.41)

Thank you.

Brendan (52:21.78)

for Shelby to putting that together though. Yeah, thank you. I know we're hitting that hour mark. So I want to be conscious of your time. Maybe we could do part two sometime in the future. Or maybe when you come through, if you can. Can I, I know you have a team now, in the future, revamping the practice and stuff. Is there a different price from getting you versus a team member, a delegate? How does that work?

Kiera Dent (52:22.841)

Yeah, of course. Thank you.

Kiera Dent (52:31.18)

Thank

Kiera Dent (52:34.516)

Yeah.

Kiera Dent (52:45.453)

Yeah, great question. I have always tried to make sure that whomever I hire is just as good as me, if not better. I even tell other people, I'm like, honestly, my consultants are usually better than me due to the fact that all they do is consulting. And so they're truly incredible for it. So I have never wanted to have a different fee for myself or for consultants. And so currently, it's the same fee. I just don't take on as many clients. However, with that said,

certain people that we've connected with and if I'm in the area and it works out, by all means, I'm happy to come. And even sometimes it's me plus a consultant because I just, my biggest expectation of ourselves is I feel like we have got to be there for clients. Like when I need my coach, I need her. And so we are so on top of it that I would never want to have it where I am busy, I'm on podcasts, the clients can't get in touch. So I always, if I even am on an office,

I pair myself with another consultant just so you guys always have support and you're never left due to the fact that I am busy and I do travel. absolutely, there's no extra fee if it's me or someone else. So yeah, that would be, but honestly, our consultants, I only bring on consultants in our company that have my experience or better, that they've had to grow multiple practices, that they have the dental experience, that they've got the passion for dentistry, that they've grown multiple practices.

because I don't feel like if you haven't been in their shoes, it's very hard to convince people of what to do or to even have that empathy. yeah, so that's how we operate. But now if I didn't bring on people that were just as good as me, if not better, I think that'd be a flaw of myself as well.

Brendan (54:23.924)

That's such a good idea. Do you ever get all your teams, the consultants together on the podcast all at once? How often do you do that?

Kiera Dent (54:29.482)

We do. actually did one. It was actually really weird to have all of us on there because like virtually you don't know who's going next. So was kind of this like weird dynamic. But we all do get together. It was one of those like, it's always like, there's a little bit of a delay and then like we're all consultants. So we're kind of like sharks. No one wants to like sit back. So it was just like really weird. I'm like, guys, like it'd be so fun with podcasts together. And then we were like, that was really, really weird. So Maxis3.

Brendan (54:51.155)

Yeah.

Kiera Dent (54:58.538)

But usually two of us will get together. But yeah, the consultants are truly magical. And I'm just so lucky to have such a great team of people who just have the passion and the love for their clients and their patients and their team that they're just really, really amazing people.

Brendan (55:14.363)

Have you seen that meme of the Spider -Man where they're like in a square and they're all pointing at each other and they all look exactly like feel like that where it's like, are you gonna go? Are you gonna go next on the?

Kiera Dent (55:17.994)

Yeah.

Kiera Dent (55:23.702)

Well, and it's hard because like everybody's screen, like if you're on Google meet or on Riverside, like all the boxes for each screen are in different spots. So it's not like we can be like the top, the bottom, like all of us are different. so, yeah, but our team does get together every day. We've, I've just found in a virtual company, you've got to keep that team morale and have fun. And so it's so fun that we like, when we see each other in person, it's like, nothing has passed by, which I really am so proud of our team for doing. So it's been fun.

Brendan (55:50.826)

You got a powerful team then that you guys all respect each other. You guys are friends. That's a group that's hard to find. You must, I mean, you're the leader in the organization that must have been, it's just, it's probably another testament to you that you know how to pick the right team members. You have a feel for people. That's interesting. I've learned a lot about you today and I appreciate it was a slow start to the conversation, but I feel like we got to a really good place and I can't think of her coming on. This is, I've been very impressed. Thank you for doing what you do. I'm looking forward to seeing where we can go in the future.

Kiera Dent (56:14.751)

Thank you.

Brendan (56:19.006)

when I finally, I gotta get out of this residency program and start practicing, hopefully.

Kiera Dent (56:22.325)

Enjoy it. Learn as much as you can through residency. That's why I tell all my doctors, I'm like, go through it through residency. Learn everything you can. Get your bedside manners up. Get your speed up. Get your skillset up. Get so confident in that. Get your treatment planning up because then you're going to walk in and now people are paying you as the doctor, as this private practice. They're not coming to you because they have to. So like take this as the most beautiful, amazing, like couple of months and just soak in everything you possibly can.

Because private practice is not like residency or dental school or anything like that. Now you have to be the one that like is really the magician that turns it on and gets people to follow you because they love you, not because they have to come to it.

Brendan (57:03.732)

Yes. Yes, that's going to be lesson one. You'll have to teach me how to empower the team. I want everyone on the same playing field.

Brendan (57:32.478)

Anyway, so thank you. won't take up any of your night. I know you got the family to get to, but thank you so much.

Kiera Dent (57:38.547)

Absolutely, thank you so much as well.
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#912: Are You On Track For 2024 To End?
6 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
Kiera gives listeners advice on what they should be checking in on with their practices as 2024 begins to wind down. This could be finances, operations, staffing, or personal health. She also encourages setting strategic goals as you begin to forecast 2025.

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.842)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera Welcome to the podcast. I hope today is just an incredible day for you. I hope you're loving it. I hope you just remember, hey, we're in dentistry and dentistry is the most incredible thing that we can ever be a part of. You guys, just think it's absolutely magic of what we get to do. It's absolutely incredible of the lives we get to live. It's absolutely incredible of the lives we get to serve and to help every day between our teams and our patients and our community. Like it is just magic.

that we get to be here. And so I hope all of you today, just like write maybe a little letter of gratitude of how grateful you are for this life that you get to live, for this practice you get to be a part of, for this community that you get to be a part of. Maybe journal it, maybe text it to somebody, because I truly do believe that we build momentum and seeing the good in our world is truly, I think, a talent. I think it's a muscle that we have to strengthen day in and day out. And that's really what I try to do on the podcast is bring you tactical

while also positively impacting your world. And so please share this with someone, leave us those five star reviews, download this podcast, put it in the Facebook groups, tag us while you're listening, whatever feels right to you, because you doing that helps other people see this and other people who might be in darkness or not knowing where they're going or maybe not feeling as optimistic about where we're at in dentistry. This can be a great resource and a gift for them. So please share and just thank you for all of you that have shared and made Dental A Team Podcast the greatest podcast out there for dentistry.

All right, today I'm excited because it's end of year. And end of year for me is like exciting and exhilarating and sometimes daunting. So I really, in our private consulting within Dental A Team, we actually do this where we prep our doctors and our teams to look at the next year and to really go through a deep dive review. This is actually my favorite time of year with our offices to deep dive them through.

What should we be looking at with it being end of year? So today on the podcast, I'm going to just take you guys briefly through it, but just know if you want that deep dive, please come join us on TheDentalATeam.com book a call with us, reach out. [email protected]. I am obsessed with planning and preparing and making sure our offices are thriving without worry. That doesn't mean that every day is a great day, but it does mean that they always know the Dental A Team is going to prepare them and be planning ahead with them and looking down the line with them.

Kiera Dent (02:21.346)

because that's what I feel like we need to do. And so often we're very reactive because we forgot to be proactive. And so that's what I'm obsessed with doing with our offices and doing it with ease. And so every quarter having a way to check in on these things, every quarter we assess where we're at and where do we need to go and really being able to do that within our practices. So today, just thinking about end of year, a few things that you guys should be looking at as a quick highlight, like this is a very high level. I spend a good chunk of time preparing this for our doctors. We do it in our private doctor.

mastermind that we have every single month together. And then with our private clients, definitely working on this. just did it with my clients prepping for end of year. and like I said, I will give you a high level so you guys can have a taste of it. And then if you want to go deeper and one -on -one with your practice, be sure to join us. It is never too late to join. It's never too late to take the step to a different life. It's never too late to reach out for an expert who can guide you. And I would just encourage you, if you've been on the fence or you've been thinking about it for a while, do it, give yourself the greatest gift to have.

resource in your pocket. We never know when things will be hard for us. We never know when those days will come. This year, I haven't shared this publicly, but I had a really, really hard year this year, probably the hardest year I've ever had in business. And I just think about what did I do to be prepared for that? I could never have planned for that to happen in my life. It happened so unexpectedly. It kind of came out of left field on me. And I think about how did I get through that? got through that with an incredible team, truly of people who supported me through it.

And I got through it with incredible coaches. Had I not built that incredible network of my business coach, my financial coach, my CPA who's there with me, my lawyer team, I have a legal team, my personal trainer, my physical therapist. If I would not have had my mental therapist that I go to for therapy as well, that seven people in addition to my family and my team that were there supporting me, I would not have made it through.

And I had no clue that that hard time was coming. There were no warning signs. It came out of left field. And so I just think like, we never know when that's going to be there, but having that advisory board around us to support us, to guide us, to give us the direction when we can't see it is truly, I think, the greatest gift I've ever given myself, the most confidence I've ever given myself as a business owner. And so I think that's where the passion comes of.

Kiera Dent (04:42.75)

You don't know what you don't know. You don't know what's coming ahead. But what we do know is we can always be proactively prepared for it. And so I think I have proactively prepared for the last seven years to be to this place. I brought in experts. I don't want to know everything, but I know as a business owner, it's my responsibility to know all those things. So I hire people. I have great consultants. I have great coaches. I have great people on my team to make sure that our business is always where it needs to be, no matter what my life cycle is.

So with that, I think that that's actually something great to start off with for end of year. Where are you at with your advisory board? you have an amazing consultant? Do you have an incredible CPA that guides you? Does your CPA look ahead and do you know your tax planning? Where are you at right now for the end of the year? Are you prepared with that? Do you need to start saving? Do you need to make end of year expenses? Consulting, equipment, CE, different things that you want to do to grow your team for next year and for your business for next year.

Do you have a CPA that's proactive or are they reactive and just send you a bill? Because to me, they're a partner in the business with me and I expect them to be a partner with me. I expect them to be looking down the line where I'm not seeing things. Do you have a financial advisor that's making sure that you're on track for where you want to be when you retire and that all this work that you're doing is actually going to the work and the lifestyle that you want to have when you're done working. Do you have a plan for bringing in associates in an exit plan? What does your exit plan look like and do you have that mapped out?

with your consultant, with your financial advisor, with your CPA. So all of you are rowing in the same direction. And if not, let's get that in place. Let's look at this year. How did we do? Did we hit the goals we want? Did we not hit the goals? Why? I want you to get to the root cause of why. Why did we or why did we not? And I want you to answer it with no excuses. It's very easy to say, we didn't hire, but is that really true? Or did we just not look outside the box? There's outside the box thinking there are people everywhere.

And to me, I don't allow myself to have excuses for end of year. What happened? Why did we get here? What was the root cause of it? And I push my clients. I don't let them just give me the easy of like, Kiera, it was a hard year. Yes, I always wrap them with a hug. Yes, I'm always there as a support. And yes, I'm always there to ask the hard questions because if we don't have someone asking the hard questions and answering them ourselves, honestly, we are going to stay in a rut of excuses rather than action and execution. And to me, that's the, that's the worst place to be because you can't get out of it.

Kiera Dent (07:04.11)

We're constantly sitting in this swirl that we can't get out of. And so really having somebody that doesn't let you off the hook. I think that's why my clients are with me for so long is because they know that I'm gonna guide them to where they wanna go. I'm gonna ask the hard questions, I'm gonna support them, but we're also gonna get like, we're gonna GSD and get some work done. And so looking at yourself, why did you or why did you not? Now setting goals for next year, it should be at least a 10 % growth minimum.

Unless you're in heavy growth mode, then it could be higher than that. But something I've learned in a lot of the coaching and trainings that I've gone through is let's make sure our goals are super achievable and attainable because that actually builds momentum for practices. Bringing on new doctors, looking at our forecasting. We have our doctors go through and they forecast out how many days off they're going to be taking throughout the year. Doctors, I want you to take time off. Let's do that. Let's plan for that. And let's make sure that we have a plan in place to set appropriate goals.

with the time you're taking off to plan and prepare for it. So we're not just haphazardly setting goals, but we're actually strategically knowing where we need to go and what we need to do. So right now should be a time where we're forecasting out what raises, what hires, what are our costs gonna be? What's the time off that we're going to be doing to make sure our goals are very realistic for next year as well. Right now you should be assessing every department, what's going well, what can we improve on? Looking at your marketing efforts, looking at your accounting efforts, looking at your advice from your financial advisor efforts.

All these things are the things you need to be doing right now to be preparing for the end of the year to make sure that we're on a great foot to ring in 2025. I really have learned that having a good plan in place, having somebody who, who like really pushes me to answer these questions. I love it. I love to be challenged. I love to look, I love to ask the questions. I love to get my team on board. So me myself as the owner, I need to do this first.

Then I take it to my team and I ask them the same questions. And then together we co -create the answers together that all of us are bought into. What's our bonus? If we're going to have a bonus, what's our profit share? If we're going to do a profit share, why are we working towards these goals? What is it getting us? Is it giving us the life that we ultimately want to be living? And if not, let's make some changes to make sure it is. Are you happy with the work you're doing? you fulfilled? would say 80 % of the time it's okay. There's going to be 20 % where we do not feel fulfilled and that's okay.

Kiera Dent (09:20.462)

But 80 % of the time, do you feel fulfilled? Are you excited to go to work? Are you making the money that you want to be making? Is your team compensated the way you want to pay them? Do we need to make some adjustments and some improvements? You guys, what's crazy cool about dentistry is every single thing that you want to do is fully within your control. All of it. We just need to be proactively planning rather than reactively responding. So proactively plan rather than reactively respond. I want you to be having the dreamiest life.

I want you to know that next year you're going to hit the goals with ease rather than hoping and wishing and praying on everything, single possible star that we're going to hit it. I have an office right now that's been trying to add some doctors to their practice and our goals are a little shaky because we planned, we prepared. I mean, we've been working six months to find the right doctor. We're not willing to just hire a doctor, but we've been working. And when I look at that, it'd be really easy for me as a coach to be like, guys, like great job. Like we did it.

But we looked at it and we said, all right, what do we need to do to make it strong? What do we need to do to find this person? We are not going to take the excuses with my team. We've been trying to hire consultants. So if you know anybody, don't worry, we're not poaching from your practice. But if you know someone who's ready to take their next step and become a consultant, please email me. [email protected] or just send in your resume. We actually have it online. Like I said, we do not take anybody from practices. We consult. But if you know anybody, send them our way. But when we went to our meeting,

I asked our team, said, all right, what other things have we not done? We just keep doing the same thing and that's freaking insanity. I'm like, I'm crazy about it. You guys are crazy about it. They are out there. What do we need to do to change? And it was interesting because when we came into it with that mindset, we came up with some incredible solutions that we have never thought of, but it was a must, not a wish. And so for you as end of year, how can we make your goals for next year be musts, not wishes?

How can we think outside the box? How can we like not let ourselves off the hook? How can we be like this office where it was like, all right, we've got to find a doctor. We've got to do these things for us. We need to find consultants. We're not going to take this hiring's hard. That's for the weak. That's for the offices that aren't really here for it. Yes, that's true. It's fact, but guess what? Life's not fair. And you guys are better than that. All of us are better than that. So let's rise up to the potential that we have within us instead of falling to the mediocrity that is so easily available. Let's rise up.

Kiera Dent (11:47.788)

Let's be better next year, but let's do it with ease and fun and confetti and glitter and all the happiness because I don't believe that rising up has to be hard. I believe it needs to be disciplined and executed. I believe that we need to truly have good people around us and good support systems around us. I believe that every possible thing we want is out there. We just have to figure out how to find it and how to get there.

And honestly, right now I am truly here to say that Dental A Team has two incredible consulting models. We are rolling out something that I have never done before. And I am so excited. We are bringing people in person for the first time in Dental A Team's life, because I decided I want people to have these conversations together face to face in person. I want people to have an opportunity for experts of dentists just like them to come together where they can actually share their best ideas with each other. We have brilliant.

Brilliant brilliant doctors within our community and I cannot wait to bring them all together I can't wait to quarterly like really like Sexy whiteboard it out and like get to the root causes of your practice and do it with your coach and with a community of doctors Just like you I am so excited to be doing that We also have our online virtual one of a mastermind group that people are literally obsessed with either one There's one -on -one. There's custom for you

But I am so jazzed about it and it's time. It's time for you to take care of you. It's time for you to take care of your practice. This beautiful, precious team and community and patients that you've been blessed with. It's time to rise up and let's proactively take charge. You guys like, honestly, we have never once not paid for ourselves in consulting. We always cover our costs and we give you so much freedom. If there's an asterisk, because I had someone come to me and they're like, Kiera, you said all this on the podcast and

that's not what happened. And I did prove that we did exactly what we said, but you also can't have the excuse of not showing up as well. You also have to do the hard things. You have to fire the people that are hard. You have to hire the people. You have to think outside the box. You have to be committed to these results as well, instead of sitting back and having blame and excuse. And to this doctor, if they are listening, there is so much love with this and there is absolutely no judgment because all of us are at different spaces in our world. But I know as a coach and a consultant.

Kiera Dent (14:07.854)

that there is an opportunity for all of us to rise up. And if we get rid of that amazing best friend who's there with all the excuses and we bring on the one who has the solutions and that's more of the one we listen to versus the excuses one, your life will be different. Your life will be better. Your practice will thrive with more ease than you could have ever imagined. And I can't wait to have you be a part of it. So reach out. [email protected]. Let's get you guys to that level and truly take the time right now to make sure that 2025 is successful with ease.

not with a hope and a wish. I promise it's possible. I'm here to help you. I am so proud of you for being on this journey. You're doing better than you think you are. Make sure you have the support around you as well, because then it can be done with massive ease. And with that, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#911: Building Your Perfect Day Is as Easy as This
5 Nov· Dental A Team Podcast
Often when scheduling appointments, it’s all about the patient. But what about the doctor or team members? Britt and Tiff give tips for scheduling while keeping efficiency and quality in mind (for both parties).

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:01.057)

Hello everyone out there listening. I am so excited to be here today. I have snagged the one and only Britt Stone again today to do some podcasting with me. Britt, how are you today?

Britt (00:13.087)

doing great. I mean, we're cooling off a little here in Arizona and it's a great time of year. Fall's beautiful.

The Dental A Team (00:19.89)

I agree. I loved the weekend weather. I know you weren't here for all of it. You had an awesome vacation, but it was really truly beautiful. And then I saw, well, Sunday got a little bit warmer. We went for a hike and we were like, well, this is a little bit warmer. And then I saw, gosh, by Thursday we're supposed to be like 95 again. So it's only here for, I think the heat's only here for a moment again. And then we'll drop back down, but it has been a wild.

summer, like it's still summer here. I don't know how we're still experiencing summer. And I know, Brett, you and I both grew up here and I think people always ask us like, how do you do it? And we're like, I don't know, it's like three months of heat. And I think this year they challenged us and they were like, the universe was like, I'm gonna give you six months. And then their nature said, no, we're gonna like see if you can handle this. I feel as though I've never experienced anything like this in my life of living here.

Britt (01:10.389)

I mean, we broke some records. Sometimes that's an exciting thing and sometimes that's not an exciting thing to say.

The Dental A Team (01:16.857)

Totally agree. Not the records I wanted to break, but that's okay. We're still alive. You guys were still surviving. and I think we both probably, yeah. And I think we both probably can still say that we love where we live. So I love it. Love it. Love it. Thank you for being here. today I really wanted to pick your brain on some efficient appointment, scheduling, tips and tricks for the doctors out there. I really want to speak to, we always speak to both doctors and teams, but I really wanted to speak to doctors today and I wanted to

Britt (01:23.351)

I'm not trying any place.

The Dental A Team (01:46.223)

pick your brain a little extra because I you've really, really hard on some efficiency tips within the, you know, cost world as well. So we'll dive more into that. But Britt, from hygiene perspective as well, dental assistant perspective, we've got all of those different spaces. I'm really, really looking at efficient appointment scheduling. And for me, I'm constantly reminding teams, team members and

doctors because I think doctors will stick their foot in their mouth sometimes too, to really, really look at what's working well for your practices flow. Like what's going to work best for you. And as the doctor of the practice, like when do you want to do these appointments? Do you want to do a root canal at 8 a.m.? Maybe possibly like do the root canal at 8 a.m. Right? Do you want to do a root canal at 2 p.m.? Would you rather do it, you know, after lunch, before lunch? Like where do you feel the most yourself?

and the happiest to do these procedures because if we're just constantly looking at where the patient wants to come in, what's convenient for the patient, that's not always going to give them the best experience. So in that moment of scheduling.

The patient might be excited and happy because they got the appointment that they wanted, but when they get there for the appointment, are they getting the best experience that they possibly can based on the flow and energy of the practice? Or did we just schedule you something super late in the day when you're exhausted and tired and you've been working so hard or you had pizza for lunch and you're like, I don't want to do this freaking root canal. Like, I don't know. know my doctor that I worked with side by side for years, hated nothing more than coming back from lunch and having

fillings, like interproximal fillings and crown seats for three hours. He was like, this is going to be the worst three hours of the day because it was so much movement. It's like, just want one crowd, like, or one long appointment, right? Like I just needed one patient with three crowns. Like I just want one something long that we can just sit down, dig in, be done. All of that like crazy running around and like sporadic energy.

The Dental A Team (03:48.869)

for him needed to be earlier in the day when he was more like spry, right? He's just like ready to run. And I could appreciate that too because I felt the very same. And so when we figured that out for this doctor specifically, we were able to really switch the way the day works. It was better for me as his assistant.

It was easier for me when I was doing scheduling and the patients actually had a better experience. So when I think of effective and efficient appointment scheduling, it's one of the first places that my brain goes is really what does the doctor want? I think we tend to look at what do our patients want? What does our team want? Our team wants easy and it's easy to let the patient dictate the schedule. But we forget to say the doctors, what do you want your day to look like? And I think

Today, focusing super hard on that doctor aspect and really leveling up how much the doctors take into consideration and take that control on within that is what I'm here for today. Britt, what are your thoughts on that efficient appointment scheduling and from a doctor's side, like a doctor's angle, what could that look like for them?

Britt (05:00.515)

with you and everyone's different right some doctors want the big things in the morning and the smaller things in the afternoon some function the opposite and the reason why ultimately we want to know what doctor wants and how they're gonna work best is because one when doctors always are limiting factor right so like when we can have them functioning at their best everything's gonna run a little bit smoother and so like you said when it comes to guiding patients in the schedule think of

What's going to help everything over all run smoother? Because that's going to give the patient a better experience. The team's going to be functioning a little bit better. The day's just going to run smoother when our limiting factor, which is doctor, is able to function at their best. And when they're functioning at their best, they're also going to be the most efficient. So I love that when it comes to taking that into account.

And we'll talk about some things today that are even some like good like numbers or metrics to know of and be aware of to see like, it working? Is it not? Where are we? What can we improve upon? Right? Because at the end of the day, I know all my doctors, right? We want to be able to also like produce as much as we can in the time we're there, right? You're spending time away from your family, you're working. So how can we do the most with the time that you are spending at the office? And it does come down to scheduling and there's some ways to track it to know exactly how we're doing.

with this, whenever I start to talk numbers, I'll always say, we always want patient experience to be fantastic. And of course, quality of work to be fantastic, which we know you guys do as well. And there is a point where you can like push that line a little too far. So when we're talking about these things, even when it comes to scheduling, quality of work and quality of patient experience are always top of mind. we make sure we remember those. But some good numbers to look at to see how we're doing when it comes to scheduling will be like your doctor

production per hour. So do you know how it's averaging out so you can take your whole entire month? How many hours did you work in that month, are patient hours? We know you guys work a lot more hours, but how many patient hours did you work? And what's your production per hour? Because that's when it comes to efficiency or how is our block schedule working. That's kind of what we're playing with is how much can you do within the time that you have? And if that number is low or not where we need it to be, then

Britt (07:17.377)

How can we be more efficient, schedule more appropriately with the correct production, or tighten up the schedule if we can and still giving that a great experience and the quality that we need to have there. What can we do to get that production per hour up? So it's a good number for doctors to track. If you don't know your number, figure it out, super easy. What did you produce last month? How many patient hours did you have available on the schedule?

divide it and it'll give you your production per hour and then you know where you're starting and then you know where you can go.

The Dental A Team (07:51.121)

I love to do that formula as well in looking for open hours on the schedule because it really, really shows us how efficient or effective we could have been or what we could have produced as well. So efficient appointment scheduling, think with the block scheduling, you guys, we talk about block scheduling all the time. So we're not gonna dive into block scheduling a ton today. There are a million podcasts on it. Like reach out to us, [email protected] if you need more information on that.

So we're not going to do that right now, but when you do have that set, which is what Britt and I were alluding to, like where do you want to do these procedures? Where do you want them scheduled? How do you want your day to flow? When you have those things set, meaning you have to know how long it takes you and your assistant to complete certain appointments, you need to know.

how many of each appointment you need in a day to get to your production projections, right? Like what's my goal for production per day? I'm gonna build that out and do a perfect day schedule and then I'm gonna go back through and like Britt said, really count my hours. And you can do this for hygiene, you can do this for a doctor, count how many hours were available to be scheduled and divide your production by that to get your dollar per hour, to get your hygienist dollar per hour.

If you've got assistants who are operating as producers because they're FDs or whatever you've got in your state, you can do it for all of those different spaces and really see how well you or your associate or your high-dense or dental assistants are really paying for yourselves and what that could look like. Now on the flip side of that, I like to go in then and say, okay, well, this is my dollar per hour goal. Owner doctors, Britt.

Tell me if I'm completely off base here. I'm typically gonna have my owner doctors 850 plus per hour. My associates, I'm like 550 to 750. I would love to see an associate at 850. Totally possible. Owner doctors, I would love to see you closer to like 1050, 1200. Like those are the numbers I would love. PPOs, like they're gonna drastically change that for you. But we can work around it and it's the time of year to ask for being pieces, all those pieces. So we don't need to get into that today, but those are like.

The Dental A Team (10:04.485)

good goals to mull around. So then what I do on that note of the schedule, right, is look at these were my available hours. Well, as I'm doing my available hours, I'm also going to count my open hours. I just did this actually. I was in Utah a couple weeks ago with a prized practice and I just did this for him because he's like, tiff, like, we just tanked. I don't know what happened. And so I went through the whole year and I did available hours.

Britt (10:22.58)

Thank

The Dental A Team (10:33.214)

And then at the same time, I had one screen was available hours. The screen over here was open hours and it was how many for each provider I did the doctor, I did all of his hygienists and I did it for each one. And I said, okay, so we're about 40 to 50,000 off from the goal we've set this year. Let me show you where it's at. And we could literally pinpoint the month that had enough open hours just for him alone, not even including hygiene that was that gap.

the month, like not even just production for sure. You can say like, we were down a little bit here, but there was a month that he should have far exceeded the production, the monthly production goal that they had set that he was still under. But you could easily see because we had that perfect day scheduling in, we had the blocks in there. We were able to easily see how much he should have been doing and then calculate it backwards and forward. So we could do the lab measures to see

Why didn't we hit those goals and where was it and how could we have been more efficient with our appointments? And then the lead measures to see, okay, well, if that's the case, what do we have to do moving forward? So I love that you said to do that. And I think, too, what you're alluding to and what you're getting to with that is really looking at what are you doing now? Because then you can see, am I using this time efficiently and effectively? Like perhaps you've got the perfect day schedule in there.

and you've got your blocks, but maybe you did it two years ago or even six months ago and you're like, I'm still not where I thought I would be. So now go back through and see one, what were your open hours? And then two, is it actually working? Cause Brett, think I'm, you know, I've experienced this and tell me if you have where I've gone in and doctors are like either scheduled, not enough time.

for certain things and they're going late and now patients are like, but we're using blocks. And I'm like, but these patients are like waiting, like there's such an issue here. Or they're scheduled too long and then they've been done for an hour before the patient gets back. But on the schedule, they're not changing it. And so there's no reality set in. Have you seen that as well where doctors are like, well, I'm full and practices, right? Our teams are like filling the white space, it's full, but it's still not reaching goals.

Britt (12:57.111)

Yeah, and though agreed and you're right on your numbers. I'm like 500 minimum That's my low end for anyone per hour that you should be hitting so if you're not there Hey, that's an opportunity for you to get there and know where a benchmark is and agreed in a PPO office 500 to 850 like it's it's attainable fee for service and

Just to kind of clarify one thing when you say owner doctor right getting that 850 or plus Even easily some doctors into like thousand pretty easily or more Owner doctors usually when you start to bring on associates you get to do the more complex things that you like Usually to do and so you're getting those higher dollar procedures while associates are taking care of some of the lower dollar one Which is why we say that so just to give a little context behind some of those numbers

and agreed when we look at open space or how we're scheduling, then it's like, right, if I'm able to produce $850 an hour and I've just got like 30 minutes of slush time in there that we're not using, that's like opportunity costs. That's like 400 bucks easy that we're losing that if we scheduled better.

We could have added another $400 in that day just with that 30 minutes when it comes to scheduling. So starting to see the schedule in that way, it's not just full or not. It's what's the quality of the things that you fill it with and looking at those open space, like what's the opportunity cost? it is, it'll take your production per hour real quick when you've got that open space, because it's a big zero in there. So filling the schedule.

which I know everyone wants a full schedule, but it's like, all right, what are we doing and what do we need to work on and are we filling it in the right way? So just viewing the schedule in that way and helping your team to see it, right? Sometimes team members don't see it that way, but you see it that way now and helping them to understand what we could put in there. And with timing, when it comes to efficiency in the schedule, right? If doctors...

Britt (14:57.449)

always give time for your assistants. So I'm not saying like tighten up your schedule so much and forget about your assistants and the time they need to turn around a room or do what they need to do. But it might be a good time if you're not hitting the production per hour that you want to, to start kind of seeing how long does it actually take you to do procedures and do a time study and say, all right, how long does it take? Can we schedule smarter or more efficiently with reality of how long it takes instead of kind of adding in some buffer time?

The Dental A Team (15:25.663)

Totally, totally makes sense. And something you said there was really that cost per hour that you just lost with that slush time. So there's that happy medium, you guys, that Britt is mentioning where it's like patient experience, right? Patient experience trumps everything. And so you need that slush for the patient experience, fine, but really evaluate, did you actually need it? So there's a lot of practices we work with that the doctors are like, I need to build relationship.

100 % we are relationship driven people and we are a relationship driven company. So we are never going to discredit that or take that away from you. But what tools are we using to help build that relationship? Is your support team supporting you in that? Are they passing off information? Are they having conversations with you, with the patient? You know, are they just standing there stoic and quiet like, I'm waiting for you to initiate, right? Like your dental assistant needs to be like,

engaged and having conversations because if that's all on you, it's going to take you extra time and you're in there for a very short amount of time in comparison to your support team, whether it's hygiene or dental assistance. So ensuring that they're giving you that proper information and those handoffs and really involving you in conversations that they are or have had with the patient far outweighs and exponentially increases that relationship with the patient. And so it.

decreases the amount of time and effort you're having to put in to create that relationship and to add that extra value. You're actually adding more value because they feel a relationship with two or three or how many ever of you there are, they're feeling that relationship with multiple people and they feel an attachment to the practice. so take some of the stress off yourselves, ask the support team to really support you, right? Call them your support team. That's what they are there.

to do, especially your dental assistants, they're there to support you and support the patient and see how can I increase the efficiency, the timing, right? The experience without making things longer. Because now that 30 minute slash time, that potentially $400, right? You can slide something else in there and know your patient got a better experience potentially.

The Dental A Team (17:44.809)

than what they may have with that slush time, right? Patients wanna be in and out as well. You've just gotta do it in a way that doesn't feel rushed. And number one, your treatment has to be good. Your work needs to be good. You've gotta take the time that you need to accomplish great dentistry and then make everything else really, really efficient and effective. People appreciate that. People appreciate when you value their time as well.

and you're not just kind of dilly-dallying. You're like, yeah, let's get this done. It's gonna be freaking amazing. And as long as you keep that high energy there, they're gonna trust it they're gonna come back. Britt, you have this incredible sheet that you showed us recently for consultants. You've been working your tail off on. We don't even talk about the whole sheet, but kind of talk for a second about how you're doing the cost analysis by procedure, maybe even just like a crown, like to really

not only look at your doctor per hour, dollar per hour doctors, but also to look at how effective is the cost management per hour or per procedure. So walk us through that just real quick and they can get a little smidgen of an idea.

Britt (18:58.399)

Yeah, some of the things that we'll work through with our clients when we know, all right, let's look at how efficient we're running and what the cost is for things is looking at what does it actually cost us for a procedure? like breaking it down by the amount of time, how much is like the facility costs? How much does it cost me for my assistant? How much am I paying the doctor associate for this procedure? And then what's my lab fee? What's the cost of all the supplies that are used for that procedure?

So I can truly see what is that overhead for that procedure. And especially for some of our lab procedures, especially when you get to like your all on X cases or sleep appliances even, places where depending on where you've got your fee or what insurance fees that you're contracted with.

The Dental A Team (19:39.098)

for sure.

Britt (19:47.209)

Sometimes that profitability is not so great or sometimes even in the negative on some of these procedures Which just allows you that information allows you one. It's a reality check a gut check a little bit Allows us to straddle up strategize a little bit better to see all right What procedures are worth us doing right? I'll say if you love doing it then let's figure out a way to do it to where it's also Profitable so it makes business sense along with the things that you love to do If you don't love to do it and it's not super profitable for you

maybe you refer those things out because it's just not necessarily like completely worth the time. But until you start to kind of look at those things and know what the cost is, you don't have the information to make some of these decisions. And also it'll help you to guide you on insurance plans we are in network with.

When we get to the point of being able to go out of network, what ones do we want to go out of network with because our profitability on those procedures are just so low. So it's just good information to have to dig in to see, all right, where are we?

and you can play around with time, right? And efficiency. If you can go from 90 minutes to 60 minutes for something, that's gonna impact your profitability on that procedure. And it might just be that little switch if we can do it a little more efficiently that allows us to be like, okay, that makes business sense for us to do that procedure. We just need to ensure that we're not taking a ridiculous amount of time on it.

The Dental A Team (21:11.642)

Yeah, I totally agree. I love that. And it made me think of a client that I have near and dear to my heart that was doing all on X cases in his practice. he liked them. He thought he loved them. And he got real tired of them real quickly. And we did a little cost analysis and really saw that, well, he realized for one that he brought them in because he thought they were going to be game changer for the practice. And it was going to be this

Britt (21:24.599)

you

The Dental A Team (21:41.62)

lucrative situation where he could take a step back and he could do a couple all-in-x's a month and be done. Like he didn't have to do all of these other little pieces. And so he thought, that's going to bump production collections. My overhead is going to be fantastic. I'm going to be profitable and I'm going to do less. And so he brought all-in-x in-house and come to find out, right? It's a lot of freaking work. And he was not, he wasn't bad at them. He was fantastic at them, but the follow-up.

And the denture work like who loves like if you love dentures, like you better shout it to the world because there are doctors out there that need to know you're there. We need to know where you are because we need to send you all of our dentures. Okay. If you love them, shout it to the world, right? Shout it from the rooftops. And he just was like, this is a pain in the butt to follow up and how many post-op appointments there are and adjustments and the dentures are this denture broke and I've got to remake it and I've got another lab cost and I've got

Britt (22:26.187)

Thank you.

The Dental A Team (22:39.102)

So when we did that kind of cost and time analysis, he realized real quickly, because when he came to us, he's like, I am, he has like 72 % overhead. He's like, where's my profitability? Right? He's like, I'm doing all my nexes. I'm like, well, let's figure that out. And so we realized real quickly that something that he semi liked that he thought he would love, that he thought was going to be a game changer for his practice was actually costing him money and losing profitability for the practice because of

just all of the pieces that were involved. And he was like, you know, I don't like it that much. Like I'm really not like, I'm really trying to get my feet wet with it. And it's a lot to deal with. It's a lot to handle. And Tiff, don't think I actually want to do this. I was like, fantastic, start referring them out. That's, it's okay. That's why oral surgeons are here. That's why, you know, there are other people who do love to do it. And for my oral surgery practices, like they are incredibly lucrative. They are a really great.

tool for those practices because they're not doing fillings and crowns and crown seats and limited exams and re care exams and new patients with it. So for this specific doctor, we did exactly that where we did this cost analysis, we did this appointment efficiency analysis, really looked at his dollar per hour, his hygiene dollar per hour, his open hour, like we did all of these things that we're talking about you guys and came down to what is it that you want to do in your practice?

And what are you doing that you're trying to save your practice with or create something that you don't actually love that could be costing you money and time. So we had to really take that analysis. Like he also, you know, hates doing fillings. So we're trying to figure that out, but most doctors are like, get these fillings off my schedule. So, you know, we try to figure that efficiency piece out too, but I think when it comes down to it, these steps that you're saying to take.

really are the make or break to really figuring out what your practice looks like and what it could look like. So inventory wise, right, I would say go through and make sure that your appointments are the way that you want them and the length of time that you want them. And encourage your team, you guys, when you go long or when you go short on an appointment, change it on the appointment book so you can see the reality because then I'm gonna tell you, like Britt said, I want you to go back.

The Dental A Team (24:57.214)

through and do an analysis of your actual dollar per hour. So in comparison to your production, what was your actual dollar per hour? And also look at your open hour time. So what could you have produced if we had scheduled more effectively? And then also I would go through on your procedures and do this cost analysis because I do think hand in hand with the appointment efficiency goes this. You want an efficient and excelled patient experience.

and you want an efficient appointment and to know your dollar per hour that you're supposed to be getting in conjunction to what the cost is per procedure based on the time you're taking, I think is just like the magic sauce of really figuring out what you can do with your practice.

I would do those things. And if you need help with them, if you need ideas, if you're like, I don't understand this cost analysis thing, because you guys, it was over my head for a split second too. And I was like, wait, say that again. Just reach out, [email protected] re-listen to this podcast, obviously, but always reach out. You guys were here for that. So Britt, is there anything that I missed in those action items or last minute thoughts you want to give to these incredible doctors who are listening today?

Britt (26:13.717)

Yeah, I think those are great action items to take and I think.

This is for our doctors that you're banging your head against the wall like how am I not as profitable as I want to be, right? What are the issues? Or you're like, I don't think we can fit anything else into our schedule, but I'm not as profitable as I want to be. These are the things that are going to give you the information to bring some reality to it. And sometimes it can be those conversations of like, hey, we've got those doctors, we've got those people we love them who are a little chatty and you can still have a great place to experience and not talk so long.

So like sometimes that's the reality of like, hey

We make a choice, right? Either let's adjust that, still chat, but like, it doesn't have to be as long and we can fit a little bit more into your schedule. Or like, you get a little bit more time for talking and we're as profitable as we can be or as efficient as we can be with our schedule if that's the ultimate patient experience you want to have. And so I'll just allow you to make smarter decisions. I mean, I've had some doctors that are in rural areas when it comes to certain types of procedures that maybe aren't the most profitable, but they're like, hey, I want to be able to provide that to my community.

Awesome. I love that. Let's just be aware of it, see if there's anything we can do to manage the overhead and make it efficient. And then we may just manage how many of them that we do out in one day or one week or one month to ensure your space to kind of make up the difference with other procedures.

The Dental A Team (27:38.389)

Yeah, okay, awesome. You guys, this was incredible. Britt, thank you so much for always being open to diving into more numbers with me than we do on a lot of the podcasts. This one or one is super dedicated to our amazing doctors who are out there really just trying to make sure that you're giving the best to your patients and that you're getting the best for yourselves because we at the Don't Ateam truly believe if you are giving exactly what people.

deserve if you're giving that experience that people deserve when they come to a dental practice, you will reap the rewards. And those rewards should be insane profitability. In our opinion, you should be insanely profitable. You should be living your dream life because you're giving an incredible thing to patients that they can't get anywhere else. So with that said, go do these things, go figure it out. If you need help, if you are a current client, reach out to your consultant, or to our consulting team because we're here to help you with that.

If you're not yet a client and you're a future client or you're someone who's just listening because you love listening to our voices, reach out. Hello at thedoubleAteam.com. You guys, we're here to help you and we will give you whatever information that we possibly can because we just want everyone to experience the best lives you truly possibly can. So Britt, thank you so much for being here. I cannot wait to hear how everyone loves this podcast, so drop a five star review below.

We wanna hear how much you love this. We wanna know how much you love diving into the numbers side and really, really effective doctor style items. Like I'm so excited for this one. So Britt, thank you everyone. Have a great rest of your day.
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#910: How To Turn 4 Dental Practice Tricks Into Treats!
31 Oct· Dental A Team Podcast
Happy Halloween! In this episode, Kiera lists four “tricks” in dental practices that might scare a practice owner off, and gives advice on how to turn them into treats.

Leaking revenue

A team that doesn’t care about company goals

Untapped potential holding you back

Low case acceptance and high overhead

Episode resources:

Reach out to Kiera

Tune Into DAT’s Monthly Webinar

Practice Momentum Group Consulting

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Become Dental A-Team Platinum!

Review the podcast

Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:01.09)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and happy Halloween -y. man, I love Halloween. This year, I'm so excited. We have some really, really, really special neighbors and they have two kids and they have definitely allowed us to be a part of their family. And so they're now six -year -old son. They have a six -year -old and a two -year -old. Their six -year -old plans our Halloween costumes for us. If you know anything about Kiera Dent or if you don't, my mom was very much not.

pro having her kids trick or treat. My mom is very, very, very conventional and she did not want to teach her children. She felt like trick or treating was slightly like begging and she did not want her children to be that way. And so I do not, I do not endorse that nor agree with that. And my mom has since changed, but that was her beliefs as a young mom. so trick or treating, she had us go what's called pick a treat where we would actually take treats to our friends instead of trick or treating. And so

Actually last year, 2023 was the first time that Kiera Dent actually went trick or treating. And it was with this family that takes us with us. Last year we were Incredibles. And this year he has given, this little boy has given all of us the assignment of something from Toy Story. He plans every one of us who we're going to be. So this year I get to be Little Bo Peep. My husband's Woody. Don't worry. We'll definitely post up some pictures for you guys, but happy Halloween. I hope you have the best time. I hope it's fun, but.

What I wanted to do today is one, thank you guys for being a part of our podcast family. But two, remind you, please share this podcast with someone fun. Today's gonna be a fun one. These are things that should scare you as a dental practice owner. Our goal is to help you learn to overcome them and running practice does not need to be scary. So come and join our consulting with us. There's no tricks, just treats for you guys. And I'm gonna give you guys four little things that probably do scare you as practice owners and ways to overcome them.

We're going to do a little trick or treating here where I might trick, I might treat. Of course I'm going to treat guys. Here we go. but please share this podcast with those around you. And thank you for being a part of our Dental A Team podcast family. If I could give you a giant hug right now and just tell you how much I love and appreciate you for who you are and the special things that you bring to dentistry and to this world. And, just you being here, no matter what you do or don't do is a huge blessing to those around you and in my life as well, even though I might not know you personally.

Kiera Dent (02:26.07)

I feel you, I feel your energy and I'm so grateful for you. just share this with someone that you feel could use that huge giant hug of love and appreciation and probably just like some fun and some support. with that, right. Number one possible scary thing in a practice is revenue leaks in your practice. So what are some of those things that are leaking out revenue that if we just were able to patch up that hole might actually be able to help you. So things such as inefficient scheduling, billing errors, uncollected payments.

So I want you guys to look at your practices and see where are our revenue leaks. I think this could be a really fun almost scavenger hunt for you and your team to think about like, where are all the ways that we might be losing money on imperfect handoffs, on not billing out all the procedures that we do, on not having the correct dollar amounts attached to those. Keir Dents practice definitely sent out a $0 crown. We billed it straight to insurance. You better believe they were so happy to send me the EOB on that. That is a revenue leak in our practice. so,

on our inefficient scheduling? Have you built in the block schedules? Have you created a perfect day schedule? Are we working and role playing on how we can get people perfectly in there? Are we looking for same day treatment opportunities? That's a huge revenue leak within your practice. Looking for those same days, you get raving fans out of it and you're also able to help a ton of people with it. So can we actually help you guys close up that revenue leak and make it even better? What about the billing errors? Like I mentioned, attaching the correct things to our procedures so we get our money in within those.

20 to 30 days the first time and we're not having to rebuild or reattaching like setting up a process and a policy that we all follow every single time. Make that quick checklist, have it in the notes. We just grab it and go and everybody's there with it. It makes it so much easier. Uncollected payments, I can't tell you how many offices just let patients leave without stopping at the front desk or getting credit cards on file so that way we can bill these patients very quickly and collect. It's so easy. You guys, I have all of my stuff on autopay. I go to the therapist, I credit card on file, click, paid, done.

At my chiropractor same thing at my therapist my my physical therapist same thing at my gym person All these quick ways like you guys we live in a world of credit cards on file. We have Apple pay We have all these different pieces. Can we do that there? And what are the revenue leaks within your practice? Those are just some to get your your mind spurring But really look at that because that could be very scary in a practice. You're doing the work Let's make sure you're getting paid for it. Like I said, no tricks just treats. It does not need to be scary

Kiera Dent (04:50.132)

Number two, your team not caring about your company goals. Well, that can feel scary because doctors can feel like, I'm rowing this boat all by myself and it can feel awful. And so let's get your team to care about the goals. How can this help give them a better life? How can this help them help more patients? How can we get them on board and excited? I have an office right now and we're rolling out sleep in their practice and I cannot wait. We're making it all fun. They're going to get like part of the bonus and the rewards of helping more patients not die from sleep.

That's incredible. That's such a fun way to do it. And so looking for ways, people don't care about things that they're not passionate about. No surprise, right? Like that's a very easy thing. Kiera, give us some wisdom here. But I think sometimes simplicity and remembering what we already know is half the point of learning. And a lot of times learning is just remembering what we already know. And so getting our team, like what inspires them? Why do we want to hit these goals? How many patients do we want to serve together as a team? And oftentimes if your team doesn't care about the goals,

guess what, they might not be your right team. You want people that are obsessed about hitting these goals. You want people that are excited about building this practice. It's gonna serve so many patients. And so you also, as the owner and the leader, need to feel that way about it. Oftentimes when teens don't care about goals, it's because the owner doesn't actually care. And I say that with love and a huge giant hug and no judgment, because sometimes it's hard to stay motivated as owners. Sometimes we need someone to pick us up.

You guys, am so appreciative over these last couple of months. I've had some personal things in my life and so grateful for the coaches in my life that literally have like lifted me up with love and support and helped me figure out what is my vision? What is my path? I have probably five really strong people in my life and I'm so grateful. I happily pay them. so, I could not do this without all five of them. And just so thankful that I have that support system around me because

A lot of times it is hard to keep trying to figure it out on your own day in and day out. And so really being able to have that from your team and have that support is something absolutely magical. All right, number three is untapped potential losing you money. So things like, could we do some CE within our practice? Could we do helping a lot of our team start like learning to scan or taking impressions, or could we add Invisalign or could we add sleep to our practice?

Kiera Dent (07:09.886)

Or what other things are untapped potential within every team member? Could we do better with our treatment plan acceptance? Can we do better with how we schedule our practice? But what is this untapped potential? If I was looking at your practice today, what I think that your practice is a brand new baby, like in the life cycle of a business. Is it maybe a toddler? Is it maybe like a teenager? Is it a young adult? Is it like in its prime? Is it a dying practice, like getting a little bit older to retirement? Or is it on its way to death?

There's untapped potential within all of those lifespans. And so what's our way that we're able to find that untapped potential because there's so much opportunity. I have offices right now that are, we've just added very simple things to the practice and we've been able to take them from a $2 million practice to a $4 million practice just by adding in some untapped potential with them. Are there untapped potential within like the operatories in the space within your practice?

Is there untapped potential around your hygienist being able to offer fluoride to every patient or fluoride therapy where it's toothpaste and fluoride treatments? Is there untapped potential with us scanning for night guards? Is there untapped potential with us looking for same day treatment opportunities? These are fun little things that could be spooky and scary, but if we look at them, make them fun. Now, I'm gonna put a huge like asterisk caveat with this.

We do not wanna add all these things at the exact same time because that is very scary and daunting for our team, but we can brainstorm and like throw everything on a board and then pick the thing that's the easiest, least amount of effort with the greatest impact. And that's what we wanna go implement and execute on our practice. right, number four of things that are scary, no tricks, just treats today, of low case acceptance and high overhead. So kind of technically two in one.

So low case acceptance, that can feel really scary. It can make doctors feel like patients don't like me. It can make treatment coordinators feel like, we're just not closing cases. Case acceptance to me just tells a story. One, are we doing incredible with how we're presenting treatment? Doctors, are you using that NDTR next visit date, time, the re -care, there we go. Are you doing that and putting the bow on every single treatment plan that you're giving?

Kiera Dent (09:20.032)

Are you diagnosing with confidence? Are we doing quadrant dentistry rather than solo tooth dentistry? Are you confident on how you're presenting it to the patient? Are you possibly planting weeds in your flower garden by giving them obstacles as opposed to opportunities without realizing it? After doctors give this the most amazing confident treatment plan, they put the bow of NDTR on it. Team members, are we all taking that perfect hand off, scheduling them first and then having our team present the treatment plans and the finance?

Are we leading with insurance? Because if you better believe if I'm any part of your life, you will never lead with insurance. You will always lead with what we need to do. And then we will help the patient say yes to the treatment. Low case acceptance to me tells what are the doctors confident in, what's the treatment coordinator confident in, and where are awesome opportunities to grow. I love case acceptance. I'm obsessed with it. I'm obsessed with helping offices. I have literally taken a practice from 9 million.

to over 40 million just by working with them on case acceptance. I kid you not, there's multiple practices in it. They are incredible. And we just work on case acceptance over and over and over over over and over and over and over over again, because we know that that's what's gonna help more patients have a happier life. So when I look at this, I love it. It tells me what is that treatment coordinator afraid of? What does that treatment coordinator need to break through? What does that doctor need to break through? I can look to see the type of treatment plans just by looking at your case acceptance.

And so looking at this and how can we boost it? Now, if it's too high, I know we are actually not diagnosing enough. If it's too low, I know we're not closing and it's a happy medium. If you're presenting implants and high cases, it should be a little bit lower. If we're doing a single tooth dentistry and general dentistry more so, you should have a much higher case acceptance. So looking at that, because that can feel very eerie in a practice of like, what are we doing wrong? Oftentimes it's not what are we doing wrong? It's what are we saying? That's actually not helping us get to our case acceptance that we want.

So play the game, have fun with it because that case acceptance fills the schedule. Now if our schedule is too full and we're not hitting our goals, let's look to see what are we diagnosing doctors? Let's see, are we truly diagnosing full comprehensive care or are we diagnosing what we think they want? No, those are questions for you to answer that can feel spooky and eerie, but they do not need to be. Just be confident, the patient's there. It's not your fault they're there. It's not your fault that they have this treatment. It didn't get there overnight and now you have the amazing opportunity to educate them.

Kiera Dent (11:40.93)

help them get healthy again and become like so fulfilled by having that confident smile again. And then that in turn can also reduce your overhead. Looking at our P &L consistently, making sure that we're not overpaying for things that we don't need, but also making sure that our revenue we're producing what we need to be producing for our practice. These are things that I am obsessed with. I love them. It doesn't need to be spooky for you. It really just needs to be fun for you. And so that's why at this Halloweeny time,

No tricks, just treat. And within our consulting, we have our online version and we also have our in -person version and both of them give you a way for these spooky things to actually be done with ease. So I'd love for you guys to come try it out. Like, what's it gonna hurt you to come and be a part of a community of people of like -minded dentists, to have consultants at your fingertips that literally will give you the answers to all these spooky things and also get your team on board with you.

to come and either be in person and meet us. We're literally getting ready to have our doctors in person together and work on your business from the minds of brilliant people to be able to lift you and your practice to the highest heights that are out of this world, to be able to have consistent accountability in your practice of people that hold you to a higher standard and grow you. Come join us and be a part of it. I'd love for you to come try it out. Running a practice truly does not need to be scary. So come try us. I'd love to have you.

No tricks, just treats for all of you. You guys, I am obsessed with dentistry. I'm obsessed with helping you guys have the life that you deserve to live and that you're worthy to live and that you have every capacity to have. I'm obsessed with getting your team on board with you. So come try us out. Hello @ TheDentalATeam .com or just go to TheDentalATeam.com. Book a call with us. You guys, it's not scary. We literally like meet you with open arms and a huge hug. And we're there, whether you are on the top of your game or you are at the bottom of your game, anywhere in between.

We're there for you and I can't wait for you guys. end of year. It's a great time for you to be looking at these things, to make decisions, to make sure that next year that you are successful without knowing that it's maybe going to happen or not, but being confident that it will happen for you. Now is the time for you to take action, to not have it be scary and to have the best, best life that you could ever imagine. Reach out. [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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#909: How to Stay Consistent During the End-of-Year Rush
30 Oct· Dental A Team Podcast
Tiff and Britt are here to give advice on how to maintain consistency during the busiest times. They talk about keeping a positive mindset when things become stressful, how to avoid getting stuck in “fix mode,” how to find what tasks you can automate, and more.

Episode resources:

Reach out to Tiff and Britt

Tune Into DAT’s Monthly Webinar

Practice Momentum Group Consulting

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Become Dental A-Team Platinum!

Review the podcast

Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:02.11)

O my gosh, Dental A Team listeners, I am here today with the one and only Brittany Stone. I am so excited. I bring you Dana a lot and Dana is freaking fantastic. You guys know how much I love my time with her. But recently, I have been mixing it up a little bit and I love it. I get my couple hours a month of just one -on -one solo time with you, Britt. So thank you. I love having you here. I love that we're in different colors today. I think it spices it up a little bit.

How are you on this beautiful Friday when we're recording right now? It's Friday and it's freaking beautiful outside, right?

Britt (00:38.059)

I know Arizona, it's like the end of summertime where it starts to break a little bit in the heat. We're like, my gosh, this is why I live here. yeah, that's right. This is the reason why. I like that I got a full name today. It's always fun when that comes out and I get called by my full name. So I'm excited to be here. know, anytime I get with you consultants, anyone on our team, especially one -on -one, it's my favorite.

The Dental A Team (00:49.495)

You got it.

The Dental A Team (01:01.005)

I love it. love it. I had I had a client today actually on our coaching call say, what's the weather like out there? Like, are you is it cooling down? And I was like, no, it was like 101 the other day, I think he got down to like 95. But there was 99. And like, we're all over the place. And I told my friend the other day, she's like, gosh.

it's supposed to be fall, like where's our fall? Where Arizona is, and we don't get fall, we get ideal hiking weather. So we are walking into ideal outdoors weather in Arizona. There's no fall. We just get our hiking season until now May. So here we go, ready to hike.

Britt (01:36.779)

we can get back outdoors. know Tiff today is like, should I go for a run? And I'm like, should I go for a ride tomorrow? Probably. Like now we can liven back up and be outside.

The Dental A Team (01:46.702)

I was actually thinking that last night when I was like, gosh, dang it, what do do? And I was like, Britt would totally be on a ride right now if she could. I love it. I love it. Well, I want to hear from you guys. What do you do when it's nice outside? And I hope that some of you are in some beautiful weather as well. I know we've got some Arizona listeners out there for sure. But we've got listeners all over the country. And honestly, we have listeners outside the country. So I love hearing about the weather. I love thinking about that. And I love just making sure that

Britt (01:52.384)

-huh.

The Dental A Team (02:12.777)

No matter what your experience with Dental A Team is top notch and we are here for it. So you guys today, I really want to talk about busy season because with fall coming, with winter coming, being in fall, all of these pieces, your busy season is about to really, really hit in the dental practice. I know for a lot of pediatric practices that summer. So sorry guys, you're coming out of your busy season, but for majority.

Britt (02:38.145)

Congratulations.

The Dental A Team (02:38.89)

Yeah, they were crazy, right? just did analysis with my Peto practice this morning in July and August were freaking bananas for them, but September is starting to slow down. So with October coming as well. So here we are in the middle of it all in the thick of it all and hopefully you guys have already done things to ramp up that schedule from September to October now looking freaking amazing and really just getting into it maybe within the year benefit letters things like that. I know we put all the suggestions out there.

But as it gets busier, I know me and I think you know me. I you probably know me better than most people in my life at this point. I tend to, as it gets busier, get more and more and more forgetful. And I don't know if I'm the only one out there, but I'm forgetful by nature just in general. a very forgetful human being and I don't mean to be, but it's just who I am and I have to love myself for it. But as things get busier, especially when I was in practice,

this time of year where it's like that end of year rush, get the end of your benefits done, prep for the new year that's still busy, we tend to forget to focus in on that ultimate patient experience. And those pieces that we do that really set us apart from other practices, they get forgotten. Those are the first things to go. It's kind of like forgetting the chocolate chips and the chocolate chip cookies and you ended up with these bomb sugar cookies because you forgot that stuff or

Britt (04:00.307)

You

The Dental A Team (04:03.164)

the baking powder or whatever. Like we just, start forgetting those little things. And Brett, I really wanted to talk with you today because I know you coach a lot of practices and especially in our group practice realm, you have a ton of practices in there, you and Dana and the other consultants that really come together every week to talk about these kinds of things. And in preparation for that, I wanted to pick your brain and see what do you have practices doing right now or what have they been doing and how do you

Truly help your practices prep for this busy season to really keep that patient experience at the forefront and top notch. What are you doing and how can our listeners do something maybe a little bit different, something they can pick up?

Britt (04:45.471)

Yeah, end of the year we know it gets busy. I always say once Halloween hits, it's like poof, like we're in January because that seems to be the holiday that after that all the rest of them come along and it goes real fast. And in the dental world, we are really busy on top of it because people are coming in to utilize their end of year benefits, whatever it may be, getting stuff done before the holidays or in between their travels. While our team has also taken some time off for the holidays.

The Dental A Team (04:58.983)

That's so true.

Britt (05:14.707)

So I think it's a time that number one thing I would say is remember the things to be consistent at, right? So be consistent at our huddle, be consistent at making sure we have a plan on how we're gonna tackle the day. Because if you start with that strong foundation, keep it consistent, it's gonna help you to make sure that like, all right, we can handle this. And it's not gonna get too wild for us to where we kind of hit that frazzled zone where we start to forget about that patient experience. So I think.

That's number one, is stay consistent on the things that are gonna help you. And I always say, if you're leaving morning cuddle saying, well, we'll just figure it out. my gosh, it gives me anxiety. No, we won't, it'll get crazy. So figure it out before you leave morning cuddle when those things get added in and even add a little like reminder, right? We're here for team and patients. So let's make sure our team and our patients have an awesome day today. I think even just that to keep it a little bit top of mind can go a long ways.

The Dental A Team (05:54.873)

hahahaha

The Dental A Team (06:13.067)

I love that. I love that the consistency of it and really finding those pieces that create the magic when you're not busy. So you said like morning huddle, making sure our team is prepared and making sure our focus there is too, that our team has a good experience because when we have a happy team and our teams enjoying what they're doing, it just translates to the patient experience so easily. So staying consistent in those pieces and

If you don't have a good morning huddle routine, like reach out, we've got a million of them and we've got a million ideas, a million podcasts on them. And writing those things down, right? Make sure that the systems and processes, even if you're in the thick of the busy right now, write it down. What's working for you guys? What's separating you from the others? What's projecting your success today?

so that you can keep doing those over again. And Britt, it makes me think I have this conversation with practices and honestly with people in my life constantly, I hate nothing more in life than wasted time. And to me, Britt knows this. It makes me so angry inside and it makes me wanna just like leave whatever situation it is, right? I'm just like, this was so absurd to me.

Britt (07:17.665)

That's accurate. It's accurate. 100%.

The Dental A Team (07:31.458)

So, and I say that meaning I don't wanna do things that aren't getting the result that I intended. And if I'm doing things consistently that are not getting the result that I wanted, that is wasted time because I could have been doing something that was getting the results I wanted. And what I tell practices and friends and family is like, you're literally running the definition of insanity. If you feel insane, you feel crazy, you feel...

spun up and out of this world out of control, it's probably because somewhere you're running the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. And with what you're saying, kind of combining those things, it's really taking back that control and seeing what's working that you're doing consistently. And when you're busy, how do you maintain the control over that consistency? How do you ensure that those things stay top of mind for you?

Britt (08:09.291)

Thank

The Dental A Team (08:29.344)

I love that I get on a, you know, I get on a time tangent. So you guys like don't even test me on that. It's not worth it. It's like my biggest pet peeve and Britt does. Go ahead.

Britt (08:39.967)

You have a really good point and I think a lot of times it's easy for us to get stuck in what's not working or like picking the things that go wrong and any practice we walk into there are a lot of things you are doing that are working. So I think it's big to recognize whenever we're evaluating what's going on within the practice, what is working for us because I guarantee you there are things that are working for you.

The Dental A Team (08:47.487)

Yes.

Britt (09:09.483)

And we don't want to lose sight because sometimes we try to fix another issue and we get rid of something that's working for us and then it doesn't turn out the way we want it to. So I just want to kind of highlight that a little bit. Like that's an important statement that you made is focus on what's working, focus on the wins. They're in there, they're out there. Don't just focus on the bad things. And keeping those things that are working top of mind are just as important as working on improving the things that aren't working.

The Dental A Team (09:37.368)

I love that so much. And I work with clients constantly on that very topic because it is really easy to get lost in that. And I always say that it's like, you've got a new haircut, and you decided bangs were your jam this time. And you're like, I'm doing bangs and your hairdresser's like, cool, let's do it. You get bangs and we're like 1990s style bangs and we're walking down the street.

and somebody walks by and is like, my gosh, you did it. Your bangs look amazing. And 10 people tell you your bangs look freaking amazing and your hair is bomb. And then one person walks by and they're like, ooh, I don't know if I would have done bangs. When we go home and we look in the mirror, we're like, should I have done bangs? One person out of 11 said, don't know about that. And we're contemplating whether we made the right decision or not because it is so much easier to find and look at and

and be stuck on what's not working, what's wrong, how do I fix this, do I do better, than it is to look at what could be right. And when we start with what's working, rather than starting with what's not working, we can easily see what systems and processes are creating what's working and can any of those apply to what's not working. But if we flip it, we're stuck on fixing.

we get stuck in fix mode and we say, what's not working? How do I fix this? Instead of saying what's not working and how or what is working and how do I do more of this? Efficiency you guys like that is just efficiency and time management. those are Kira Dent says like efficiency will be on my tombstone on my grave one day because that is what I live my life by and this is why because it just doesn't my brain cannot comprehend.

doing something for no reason. There is a reason behind everything and we have to be intentional about it or we go crazy. And in the midst of being busy, that intentionality gets dropped. We're just doing, we're taking everything in as it comes and we're like, my gosh, I'm inundated. have so many things to do. Front office is checking out, checking in answering the phone and sending claims at the same time. Like one person is doing all of these things.

The Dental A Team (11:52.476)

And we're like an octopus in every space dental assistants, they're running four chairs because we had emergencies at the front office was like, no, we can do it. It's fine. One more crown before the end of the year. Don't worry. And my dental assistants are like, I'm going to kill you. And we've all got these octopus arms running all over the efficiency piece, the intentionality, the integrity of it all, the action ability that gets left to the side because we're just moving. And those are the days you guys that I run into the most walls.

Those are the days I wake up the next morning with bruises and I'm like, how did this even happen? I don't remember, but I've ran into 15 walls because the universe is like slow down, slow down and do the things that matter. So in the midst of being busy, the patient experience actually drops. And what I've seen happen is we cram a ton and I just talked to a practice actually yesterday about this and I was like, this is what happened. You guys got busy. So we get busy.

And we're like, I don't have time for all of that stuff that worked to get us busy. You guys, that's the point. I don't have time for re -care calls and re -care is booked out for three months anyways. Why am I calling them? And then what does three months from now look like for a hygienist, Britt?

Britt (13:06.635)

We got holes in it and then all of a sudden we're like, well shoot, why are there holes in the schedule?

The Dental A Team (13:11.036)

Because we stopped doing what worked to fill that schedule. And when we're busy, we stop doing those pieces, or we stop looking for a workaround. If I don't have time for calls, what can I automate to ensure that the information is still getting out there that people are still getting touch points? Can I ramp up emails and text messages? If I can't get on the phone? Like what can I automate that keeps those touch points going and keeps that relationship building? Because this practice I talked to yesterday had a stellar

month, stellar month, they were like, this was one of our best months ever. Get into the next month. Three weeks later, they're like, it has sucked. It has tanked. We've had no patients. I have not treatment planned anything. And I'm like, well, you're gonna have them next month is gonna tank too. Because guess what we did is in our busy month, we lived it up. We partied it out. It's like getting that giant paycheck in your 20s. And you were like, yes, like I got paid. And now I'm going out for the weekend.

But then in three weeks, we're like, shoot, is due. I wish I had the money. That's kind of what we're playing here. We're like, awesome, we've got all of this excess and we're going to live it up and we're going to party. And then comes the fall and we break down. So giving your patients the ultimate experience when you're busy, you guys, my biggest, biggest, biggest suggestion is to automate what you can find the pieces that you don't have to.

Do every single time on your own. There's a ton of automated pieces out there There's virtual assistants that you can hire to help offload some pieces even that the phone calls and the touch points to Patients reaching out to them while your stuff is busy like whatever that looks like I can I consider that an automation if I have a virtual Assistant who's not physically in the practice busy with me. That's an automation I can automate I can pull things off of my team

send it over to my virtual assistant and automate it from there. Making sure that systems and processes are actually being written down that we know what they look like. like Britt, like you said, staying consistent with those things that are working like morning huddles. How can our team win? How can our patients win? And really, really, really using like checklists. I know that's so mundane and so elementary, but Britt.

The Dental A Team (15:33.944)

How have you seen it? You've had a ton of clients before. You work with clients now, like I said, on that group basis. I know there's a stark difference between a practice that uses checklists and a practice that doesn't use checklists. And what have you seen in your experience from each?

Britt (15:50.815)

Yeah, I mean, I'll also just plug that like I personally am a checklist person, right? Because I couple things. I don't want to have to spend the energy to try to remember it when I can just write it down or have it on a checklist and make my life easier. Like, no, no pride in that. Like I'm not trying to be the one that like, my brains are like vault. I'll remember everything. It's not.

The Dental A Team (16:04.747)

Yep. Yep.

Britt (16:15.443)

I if our congratulations, I haven't met any one of those. But so I'm a big checklist person. And that's the difference. It helps with the consistency, right? Because everyone's trying to do their best, right? Everyone wants to get all the things done and make sure they don't drop anything. But nature of human beings, like if we don't have it somewhere to make sure that we're getting all the things done, it falls in, especially when we're busy, right? That it's like we get to the end of the day and it's like

I don't, what did I do today? Like, I don't know, did I get all the things on? I don't know, I'm so tired, I'm just gonna go home and we'll like try to do it again tomorrow. But when you have a and I love, especially for a front desk, a checklist that has like times in it. So it's like, clean things, midday things, afternoon things, or something, however you wanna organize it that's gonna help you, so then we don't get to the end of the day and have this whole checklist of things to do.

The Dental A Team (16:52.278)

Okay.

The Dental A Team (16:59.125)

Yes.

Britt (17:09.545)

And front desk, you get pulled in a million different directions. So it's like, all right, once I'm done checking someone out, where was I? What do I need to be focused on? I can go back to my checklist. yeah, this is the next thing I need to get done. anything for me, TIFF is efficiency. And I'm like, if I can automate something and not have to use my brain to try to remember it, like, hallelujah, I don't want to waste energy where I don't have to. If I don't have to memorize something, I'm not going to waste the energy to try to memorize something. Because I'd rather spend my energy on other things.

The Dental A Team (17:34.91)

Agreed.

I totally agree. I totally agree. I have to highlight you said, like, we're not vaults. We're not going to remember everything. And I like to think that I'm special in that, like, gosh, what is wrong with my brain? Like, you don't know how many times I've been like reminded of something I was supposed to do that I forgot. I'm like, what is wrong with my brain? Why can't I do this? Right? Like, I just need to understand it's okay. And then I'm not the only one. Like, I'm not alone. Mine is special. Like, I know that. Like, I know.

I'm pretty bad, but I use Blitz. I've got checklists, I've got Post -Fit Notes, I've got things in my calendar. We use ClickUp reminders. That's been fantastic with our company and that's a way to automate those checklists. actually have a pediatric practice out in Virginia and they have, Virginia and Maryland, they have all of their checklists, all of their end of day sheets, all of their monthly sheets, their, gosh, like the sterilization checklist. Everything is in ClickUp.

And so the team goes into ClickUp and they go in and or Asana any of those styles, especially for our administrative team, those are super helpful, you guys makes it really easy. I've got other teams that have it written and they'll do the laminated sheets with the dry erase markers and maybe they've got a big team. so they'll take a picture and they'll slack it into the team space at the end of every day. So it's not physically being turned in, but it's on.

automation like that. So I know we have automations in Slack that help us remember to fill out our KPIs or to go into our click up and update it like we have things that come automated as well. So that we remember things and as consultants, like we've got, you know, a handful of freaking clients to try to remember everything on and something you said about that, like, our brains not evolved. It's so funny to me, because for me, I can still recall, gosh,

The Dental A Team (19:33.458)

I've been with Dental A Team at this point for a little over seven years. So I have been out of my practice for seven years. So 10, 15 years ago is when I was with these patients. I can still recall multiple patients. I remember what they do for a living, their names, right? I could probably come up with their date of birth if I tried hard enough. I know what their kids did. Like I was thinking just the other day about

this family that I loved and she was always so sweet. She always wanted to like come in and talk to me about Brody and what is Brody doing? And her son loved Legos. And Brody at this time, Brody's 16 now and Brody at this time was like three. She's like, I can't wait for him to get into Legos. I'll have to bring you some Lego sets when he's ready to get rid of them. And I was thinking about it because Brody now is that kid's age then playing with Legos. But I was like, how in the world is it okay for me to be able to remember that conversation?

from 13 years ago, but I cannot tell you what I did yesterday and did I accomplish all my notes and get everything done. Like that is so far beyond comprehension to me and frustrates me so much, but it is just the point. Like we remember things that hit us on an emotional level or a trigger level. Like we remember things for God only knows why, but we forget the other pieces. And it's just crazy to me, but.

Anyways, Britt, tell me I guess.

Britt (20:59.859)

It's human nature, right? We're all humans. And that's at the end of the day. I sometimes we want to think that we're not human, but guess what? Everybody's human. So do the things to help yourself out, especially when you know you're heading into those busy times. And then I want to plug like a soft thing for patient experience too. I think this is helpful always, but especially when we get busy. I think that dental practices, right? We're all multitaskers. think front desk might.

The Dental A Team (21:08.474)

We are all human, that's fair.

Britt (21:27.541)

take the cake, like everyone assistance hygienists, we multitask a little different though. But I think right, we're pulled in a lot of different directions, but we want to be there. The best thing you can do is be there present with your patient when you're actually right in front of them. And so when you walk into that patient, like, just take a deep breath, like, as simple as that, just take a deep breath. So it kind of signifies like, all right, like this is where I'm at. So you can be present with that patient.

The Dental A Team (21:41.146)

there.

Britt (21:54.613)

So even though it's a busy time, you might be an assistant running three different chairs or something, you know, but if when you walk up to that patient and you look at them in the face and you take a deep breath so you can actually be there with them, I think that goes a really long ways that like, no matter what else, they may have waited a few minutes, but it goes back to the people remember how you make them feel. And if you can be there with them, like that's the piece they're gonna remember.

The Dental A Team (22:18.575)

Totally. I love that you said that because that is so important. And that's part of those pieces of, we said to go back and figure out what separates you from the other practices and your intentionality and your relationship is probably what separates you from the practice down the road. They're billing, they're seeing patients, they're doing the x -rays, they're diagnosing however they want to diagnose, but those are the pieces, those soft skills, those are the pieces that do separate you. So automate.

as much as you can on the other side of that so that you have the time, the space, the availability to be intentional with those pieces when you're busy. So absolutely. Okay, biggest pieces, biggest takeaways from today, you guys, write your systems and your protocols down, know what they are, take inventory of what's working and how you got there. What's working? How did you get there? And can you apply it in other areas? Use checklists, you guys, and do more of what's working.

less of what's not working, automate the pieces that you can so that you can spend time focusing on those pieces that truly separate you from the practice down the road because you are different and that is so magical and you need to really, really, really hone in on those pieces when you're busy. That's the most important part and it's the first part that gets dropped. Britt, thank you so much for today. I knew that you have some incredible insights to this one.

I appreciate you being here today. Of course. All right, guys, go do these things. Don't wait. I know you're in the thick of it right now. I know you're busy and you're like, tiff, Brett, I don't even have time for these things. Make the time because it's worth it. Don't let January, February, March tank because we didn't do the work right now. So go do the things. Brett likes to say choose your hard. Is it hard today or is it going to be hard later? And later usually means longer. So do the hard right now.

Britt (23:45.905)

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Britt (24:07.381)

Mm

The Dental A Team (24:13.806)

we're drop us a five star review because as always, we'd like to know how you enjoyed this podcast and reach out anytime. Hello@TheDentalATeam .com. We are here to help you. I mean, we can't wait to meet you.
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