Episódios
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Tiff and Kristy talk about revisiting those goals your practice set at the beginning of 2025, and if you’re falling short, discuss how to get back on track.
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Transcript:
The Dental A Team (00:01)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. I am so excited to be back here today. I've got Kristy with me. You guys know I love podcasting with the consultant team and I love each of them for something very, special. Kristy, you are my gal that, like, I feel like we can talk about anything. Always be on the same page. You riff with me very easily.
And you always, always, always, I have to value this and appreciate it at the end. If I ever ask you for anything I missed, you always catch something and always have a pearl of wisdom. And I just think it's really, really, one, talented. Like not everyone can do that or think. A lot of people get like stressed, especially podcasting. And two, it just makes me really, really excited for your clients because I know you just operate in that way.
You're always thinking of like, my gosh, what else can I add? What value can I bring? And your clients are just insanely lucky to have you as a consultant. And your previous clients I know are just always checking in with you and they're always asking those simple questions or those hard questions. And Kristy, think it's just really cool. You're an insanely special human. So thank you for being here. Thank you for being a part of our team.
I hope you understand and know how valued you are, the Dental A Team, and just personally and professionally.
Kristy (01:25)
Absolutely. Thank you. I'm honored to be here and be a part of ⁓ changing dental lives. ⁓
The Dental A Team (01:26)
Yeah.
Thank you. And
just so everyone knows who's listening, podcasts are not like super easy. Recording podcasts can be a little daunting. And that was even before we had to do it by video. And I think about this a lot, actually, because it just, I think it's so funny. This is kind of like cell phones. We're going go on a little small little tangent because I think it's hilarious. I remember way back in the day when we were like,
bricks with these giant cell phones. We were like, this is stupid, like, why it needs to be small? So we had this little tiny flip phone that you really couldn't do a lot on, right? Because it was so small, but it was small. We wanted small and compact. And then we went to a BlackBerry and it was like, this is a whole computer and I can do my emails. And then we went small again. We like keep going back and forth and back and forth. And now, know, iPhones got it pretty well dialed in, but it's so much bigger than my cell phone was in high school. And I think about this a lot because
I think we go forward and backwards in life constantly. This is no different than that. Because you remember, I remember Brody was little and I used to do Beachbody coaching. I loved it. It was just like a past life that I absolutely loved. The fitness industry, the fitness world is my passion. But I remember we used to get on Facebook Live or we do YouTube videos and we were like, hey guys, this is how you make this cake or whatever it was.
And then we removed the video aspect, right? And that's when podcasts got popular and podcasts were not video. Podcasts were strictly just talking. And I remember Dana and I, or Britt and I, like get together and we could see each other, but it wasn't being recorded. So we could come however we wanted to look. It was just like, come as you are. We're only here for the voices. And then now, then we added the video back in and I'm like, wait, like we keep going backwards. Now I feel like we're doing YouTubes all the time. So.
Anyways, my small tangent there is like going forward and then coming backwards and feeling like you're making progress, but then technology pulls us back a little bit. And I think that we do that in life and personal life. We do that in habits. We're like, so good. The 30 days sugar detox, like I'm doing so good, right? We get to 28 days and we're like, but just a little bit won't hurt. I just want a little sugar. And we're like, dang it. Now we're sliding backwards or whatever the
I think we do that a lot in life and it doesn't have to be technology. It can just be habits. It can. It can be anything in some some places. A place that I see it a lot is within our goals within a company that only team has company goals. We we do the same thing over here. Every business is business is what I always say. We've consulted eye doctors and chiropractors and like business is business. I talked to.
You know, my financial advisor about his business structure, he's like, help me with the CPAs, whatever. Business is business and we all move forward and fall back and move forward and fall back. And today, Kristy, I thought it might be beneficial kind of being mid-year-ish to do a check-in on that. I know we do it with all of our clients, but making sure even non-client doctors who are here, business owners who are listening, that you know that this happens. This is...
This is life. Like we're back on video. Here we are. This is life. And we go forward and then we fall backwards. But no matter what, there's always a space to move forward again or move forward more. If you didn't fall backwards, you move forward more. There's always that space and there's always that availability. And oftentimes we get to this space in the year, June to like August timeframe, and we haven't looked at our trajectory very often.
in and maybe we look and we're like, ⁓ heavens, Tiff, like, I'm like 300 grand short of what I wanted to hit this year. And Kristy, how many times have you had a doctor call you just like, this is it, we got to change my goal. We've got it. We're not doing three million. We're doing 2.7. And you're like, no, we're not doing that. Yeah, like, no, we are not here for changing goals. We're here for pushing forward.
And I thought it would be fun for us to really take a look at that today and figure out how can you know that you're on or off track? And when you're off track, what do you do to get back on track? Now, Kristy, ⁓ what do you have your clients doing? And what have you always, you've worked with, you've consulted for a while. what have you always had your clients doing to stay, not even to stay on track, but just to know where they are. Like how do we know our baselines in business?
Kristy (06:15)
Yeah, well first off, I always like to start the year projecting out our year, right? So looking at what we did last year and creating a goal with growth on top of it and projecting that out for the future. But then also when we do that,
⁓ taking it and chunking it down. So we may have a big goal and starting the beginning of the year, if our goal is three million, that can be so daunting, right? And I think we all have to remember.
The Dental A Team (06:44)
Mm-hmm.
Kristy (06:47)
Yeah, we always have to keep our eye on the prize, but we need to also chunk it down. And you made a very good point about it being June. And my mind went to thinking back to the beginning of the year and how we're really excited, thinking of like starting school even. Your first year in college, I'm a freshman and I'm all gung-ho and I'm ready to study and I have these habits. And then all of a sudden we start to fall back in routine. remember,
The Dental A Team (07:05)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kristy (07:17)
that each day is a new day to start over. But to your point...
Right now, we have our big goal and maybe we have a sheet with a thermometer or however you want to fill it and make sure we're always keeping our eye on that prize, but go smaller. Go to your month view, go to your weekly view, then go to your daily view and chunk it down because it makes it so much more doable and we resist the urge to change the goal then because we can look and see where we're at.
The Dental A Team (07:33)
Yeah.
That's nice.
Kristy (07:49)
and what we have to do to get back on track.
The Dental A Team (07:53)
Yeah, I love that you said that like scale it back. Look at what the different layers are and then always looking at if you added these layers together now, does it equate to where you need to be? And something you said, Kristy was massive. Like I think so many doctors get into the year and like I'm going to do three million this year and then that's it. And it's like divide three million by 12. That's what we're hitting every month. And then we just go month by month by month.
But if we're not looking at our leads, our lags and our current, then we get lost in the shuffle. And Kristy, I think that's what you're saying, right, Cheon? Get back and know and then always look at what we've accomplished and where we have left to go. Not June to August timeframe can be seriously pivotal in making or breaking those goals, because if you now look at January to June and you say, OK,
What did I, what have I done? What is my year to date production so far? And then subtract that from your yearly goal and you're going to see your gap, right? So that's what you have left to do this year. Sometimes you might look at that and you might see your $300,000 short. That sounds massive, right? You're like, holy cow. Well, let's divide that by how many months we have left this year. Doesn't mean we throw in the towel and we're done. We say, okay,
If I'm going to do this, how do I get this done? And again, what you said, Kristy, it's mid year, but we're doing the same thing. We're doing the same thing that we did at the beginning here. We're just reevaluating and reassessing where we have left to go. So a lot of times, you know, I've had dentists that were like a hundred grand short, even at the end of the year, we look at it and we're like, oh my God, we barely missed it. Well, let's look at where we missed it. Why did we miss it? What happened?
to get us to this point? And how do we make sure that this doesn't happen again? And typically it's been missed somewhere during that year where it was like we were short 25 grand on this month, we were short 25 grand on this month, and we were short 10, 10, like whatever it equates to, right? But it's like those add up so quickly that we tend to miss them. So if you get to that mid-year and you say, okay, this is what I have left, let's reassess.
and look at how long do we have. Kristy, something I do get asked a lot is, well, what do we do when doctors are like, let's take this vacation time? Or I've got associates who are like, oh, guess what? Next month, I've got CE and I've got this and I've got office managers and doctors that are calling me and pulling out their hair. And they're like, I have a goal, but how am I supposed to hit this? So Kristy, what do you suggest when they are off?
goal, they're off track, they've got how much ever money that they need to make up and then they've got something looming, some sort of maternity leave or something we just didn't really account for. How do you have your doctors really account for that and put it back into their goals?
Kristy (11:02)
Yeah, I love that we're talking about this subject and I know we tend to talk about, you know, bridging the gap when we're behind and we'll certainly talk about that because many times it's that but...
Also, don't forget to celebrate if you're ahead, you know? And so celebrate if you're ahead, but not just celebrate, take a look at what you did to get there so you can repeat those processes, right? And to your point, if we are behind, take a look and chunk it down. What would it take to bridge that gap? And if I have providers looking for time off,
The Dental A Team (11:28)
you
Kristy (11:37)
Factor that into the equation. If we're behind already and we take this much time off, what now will the gap be? So for associates, for owner doctors, ⁓ it may not be easy to find a temp for them, but for hygiene, it's very easy to say, if we're ahead, do I really need to find a temp? Because we're ahead in our goal. Or,
The Dental A Team (11:44)
Okay.
Yeah.
Kristy (12:02)
Do I need to find a temp because we're behind
in goal? So it helps you make those strategic decisions. ⁓ with that being said, for owner doctors and associates, if we're behind, can we add in anywhere? Could we add one more hour to the day or could we work a Friday versus taking it off? What would that do in order to take that week off? And or can we change our block scheduling?
The Dental A Team (12:19)
Yeah.
turn.
Kristy (12:32)
some bigger rocks. Take our mind back to during COVID when we only did emergency treatment. It's okay if we push a filling off here or there if it means adding that big rock so we can make up for the loss, right? It's not that we're not going to do the filling, but could we put it in a month where we're already at goal, if you will.
The Dental A Team (12:39)
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah, I think those are really great points and something you said there was like work the Friday instead of not working made me think of I do have an office that does a few offices that do this, but one particular does really well at looking ahead one to three months consistently, if not further. But they're always looking at OK, if we want to as an office, take this time off or if we have to take this time off for CE or whatever, are there days in the month that were closed that we could open to make up that production?
And think that's massive. And again, like you said, I'm going to mimic it. You like definitely celebrate when you're ahead and then look at what does that mean? Now, something I do steer away from, and I know, Kristy, you do too, is changing the goal because you're ahead. So that doesn't mean next month you do 120 instead of 160. It just means great. We've got padding for if we need to utilize that. So if the time comes, I know I had a practice in February that by March they were like,
How are we so short? When they looked at it, they had hygienists that had called out sick. They had an associate dentist that was out for a week. They had a hygienist that was on surgery. They lost almost $60,000 just in like crazy schedule happenings that they weren't truly prepared for. And so that can happen at any point. So if you're ahead and then you get to November and it's like, wow, this is kind of crazy.
you can account for that. if you get to December and you're so far ahead that you're like, hey, actually, like, we're going to take two weeks off or we're canceling everything for two weeks because we're good. You want to be able to have those flexibilities. so, Kristy, I think it's brilliant the way you have them constantly looking at them. So your practices are always looking at their KPIs, their measurables of where have we gone? Where are we trying to get to? And what do we need to get there so that we can constantly strategize and figure out
a new route for that. Now, what do you suggest if we're, I don't know, say $300,000 short, whatever, a hundred, I don't care how much it is, but we're getting towards the time of year, we tend to forget this, that June to August timeframe is a good time to look at your goals because September to December can get a little wild, in my opinion, within dentistry. So if they're a little bit short here or a lot of it short,
What do you usually suggest to the doctors going into that kind of holiday season, which is freaking around the corner, which is crazy. How do you suggest that they start really preparing for that?
Kristy (15:22)
No.
Yeah, well, number one, I like to start preparing early. A lot of people think, you know, we hit the September, September, right? And prepare early because we plant those seeds, right? And it doesn't have to be that way. So number one, looking at our unscheduled treatment, you know, who can we re-enroll that has already been in and we just haven't started treatment on?
The Dental A Team (15:36)
huh.
Yeah.
Kristy (15:52)
There's so many different avenues that we can start to look at and really with the goal of getting our patients healthy, tap into those resources. Or we have patients within our own schedule coming in that have unscheduled treatment. How could we add more on what we're already doing? Because we already have them here, you know, and capture more. The other thing that I was going to say, Tiff, is I do have a lot of doctors that are willing to work through a lunch hour.
The Dental A Team (16:00)
Go.
That's a good point.
Kristy (16:19)
You know, I know that's not gonna win fans with team probably, yet if we're behind on goal and we all are part of the goal, could we still honor lunch hours with team, but maybe we rotate through so we don't have to add another day, but just simply adding that procedure during lunch if it works for the team, you know? So there's so many different avenues, but if we fail to look at it, then we're already behind the game. But again, to your point,
The Dental A Team (16:19)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kristy (16:47)
starting now to start preparing for the end of the year and talking about what we have to do to bridge that gap, but tap into the resources we already have with the patients we already have.
The Dental A Team (17:00)
That's brilliant. Looking at your unscheduled treatment is massive. And something you said earlier, Kristy, I'm going to pull back into the space right now. You said, look at what you've done that's worked, right? So look at what has gotten you here. Whether you're where you want to be or not, things have worked. And that's the space that is often missed in life in general. We're really great at looking back and seeing what could I have done better to have gotten a different result. But we often forget to look at what am I doing right?
that's producing the right result so that I can repeat that. And when you're looking at your unscheduled treatment, one, if you don't have a lot of unscheduled treatment but you don't have a full schedule, we need to look at diagnosis and new patients. So that's a space. And when you're not hitting goals, those are all spaces that we forget to look at. Often we're just like tackle the same day treatment, which works if you're diagnosing the treatment.
if you're getting the patients into the practice that need treatment. So a lot of times we might be behind goal and we might miss that there's something more underlying. It might be lost in marketing. It might be lost in the right new patients. I know I've got practices that are like, we're getting a ton of new patients, but they're clean patients. Fantastic. I love healthy mouths. I want everybody to have a healthy mouth, but I need dirty mouths. need unhealthy mouths.
to feed the production. And so being able to get that good mix takes a lot as well. So Kristy, to your point, like, are we celebrating the things that we're doing really well? And then the things that maybe aren't working to move the needle, are we really diagnosing what's truly going on there and tackling the root cause? A lot of times it's within the new patients, it's within the processes. If you've got a ton of outstanding treatment and it's not selling, why? Why aren't patients accepting?
If you don't have a ton of treatment and you don't have a full schedule, why? Is it under diagnosis or is it a lack of right patients? know Trish has a client right now. I've had the luxury of watching her consult this client and it's just been a lot of fun to see her take his, what's the word I want, like his, what are you seeing, his view and just shift it.
his attention, right? So he was getting the new patients, probably not as many as we'd love, but he wasn't focusing really heavily on the diagnosis, but wanted higher case acceptance, blah, blah, blah. So she really helped to shift. And Kristy, I've seen you do this too, shifting that focus back into, we looking at full mouth or did we get stuck on something? I've seen doctors do this where they're like, I'm going to do implants.
So we're only looking for implants and we're missing fillings. We're missing the like GP stuff that I know you don't want to do right now, but it's what fills the schedule. so, Kristy, to your point, really looking at what's working so that we can repeat that and diagnosing what's not working so that we can shift that and make massive impacts. Because sometimes I think that the money is missing because we've got something else is missing and we're maybe not focusing on the right things.
Kristy (20:14)
Yeah, I love that you said that and you know something else that came to mind when you were talking is so many times we're looking at the dirty mouth, right? And healthy infected mouth or whatever but on our healthy patients It's a great time to take a step back to and say hey Is there anything you don't like about the shape size color of your teeth? So many doctors want to do cosmetic dentistry, but we never talk about it, right? So it's a great opportunity to also celebrate the healthy patient. my gosh, you've been coming for five
The Dental A Team (20:38)
Yeah.
Kristy (20:44)
years and haven't had a cavity, keep doing what you're doing at home, and this is a great time. Is there anything you'd like to change about your smile, right? And just by asking some questions, you could probably drum up more ⁓ treatment in your chair right there.
The Dental A Team (20:46)
Yeah.
That's a brilliant idea. I do love that. You do well. This is what I'm talking about, you guys. I said it at the beginning. Kristy's like, yes, and I love that. And I use that. You say that a lot, Kristy. Words are insanely valuable and important, I think. And you say yes, and a lot. And I've noticed I've started doing that. So thank you for giving me that habit. But it's true. You're constantly thinking like, yeah, for sure, healthy patients. And you can still help your healthy patients in different ways. So Kristy, thank you for always having
that extra nugget, always thinking like, yeah, for sure. And also, this is what you could do. So, Kristy, I think it's invaluable. Our listeners, I know, picked up on it as well. And your clients, again, they're just, all of our clients are so lucky, but your clients are truly lucky to have you. you guys, I think our biggest action items, go look at your numbers, go look at where you are, where you're going, and what you need to do to bridge that gap to get there.
This is the perfect time of year to really prep the rest of the year and look at what are you offering your patients? Are you offering them everything? Like Kristy said, are we looking at healthy patients too and saying, hey, what else could you want to do? What else do you want to do? Are we looking at those options as well? Are we super focused on something right now? It's broaden your focus, change the game and figure it out guys. As always, Kristy, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for the invaluable information.
And listeners, thank you for being here. Whether you're a current client, a future client, or just here to listen, like you guys are so valuable to us and I hope that you really truly feel that from us. If there's anything we can do to help you, to support you, or guide you, [email protected]. Again, if you're not a newsletter subscriber, know that there's a slew of information in there. We write almost all of the newsletters from the consultant side ⁓ and we answer a lot of the emails that come through or the social.
requests and engagement over there too. So thank you everyone. Kristy, thank you and you guys will catch you next time.
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Ryan Isaac of Dentist Advisors returns to continue his discussion with Kiera about the future of dentistry, including options aside from DSOs. The question a practice owner should ask themself, Kiera and Ryan say, is what that individual wants out of their life — then consider the best platform to get you there.
Episode resources:
Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast
Schedule a Practice Assessment
Leave us a review
Transcript:
Kiera Dent (00:00)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera, and this is going to be part two of mine and Ryan Isaac's conversation where we're digging into DSOs to sell to not to sell, all of that. And I truly am so excited for you guys here, part two. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
Kiera Dent (00:17)
why don't we take a pause and just think of like, what's the future of dentistry as now the future pioneers of dentistry? And what are we going to do to our profession? Yes, there's top dollar. Yes, there's things about it, but is there a way to influence?
and make sure that the integrity of dentistry can maintain long-term. I have no answer to that, but again, this is Kiera Dent sitting on my podcast where I think that there is a voice and an influence and like on Dentist Advisors podcast, is there a way that we can influence our industry in ways that will protect and still pay out? Because I'm like, even if you don't get the 10X EBITDA, you still can get a freaking great payout if you do your life right to where you can be financially set up.
Ryan Isaac (00:33)
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Kiera Dent (00:58)
still be able to sell your practice, not have to sell it in ways that could potentially hurt the industry. I'm not saying one's the right answer or the wrong answer. There's no judgment on my side. It's just, let's maybe think and consider how it could influence. Can we get people that could be private equity higher up that could help protect it? Those are things that, and again, I'm just Kiera Dent here in Reno, Nevada.
Ryan Isaac (01:03)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Same, okay.
Okay. Yes. No, these are the questions.
You're totally influential. I think it's just in the opposite direction. ⁓ I don't think we can influence private equity. Private equity is ruthless in every industry. They don't. It feels dirty. It feels dirty. And I have a question for you, but I just want to say really fast. ⁓ I do feel like, yes.
Kiera Dent (01:30)
It's dirty. It's dirty.
Is there a way though, Brian, you
don't finance better than me. Is there a way that there could become dentists that could become in private equity where they own it? Because once you, there's no way to insulate, you don't think. Because once you get to that level, you just, I mean, I've had.
Ryan Isaac (01:44)
Yeah, but they'll do the same thing. I mean, they'll want the same thing.
Now, money's money. It's why capitalism runs
the world. mean, that's why, you know, it's like why it influences politics and money and business runs the world, you know? ⁓ Okay, hold on. There's so many good things here. Number one would be not every group will be a DSO, private equity backed DSO. And you know, many, many ⁓ clients and just dentists around the country who will end up being owners of
Kiera Dent (02:05)
Okay.
Ryan Isaac (02:19)
20, 50, 100 group practices that will stay privately held and ran by owner doctors. That will be a chunk of this ⁓ group practice ⁓ takeover. So in that space, the influence can still be huge. ⁓ I think the chance to influence the integrity of private practice is in those who don't sell to DSOs.
I think it's in the industry, educated in influencing the industry for people who aren't going to sell and who are going to maintain control. Now, I do think that in the future, more and more dentists will be in a group. ⁓ are probably, yeah, be fewer and I can see why it would make sense to do that. There would probably be fewer and fewer people with just solo doc, solo location practices. know, some towns and rural places, that would be hard to do.
Kiera Dent (02:47)
Mm-hmm.
I do too.
Ryan Isaac (03:15)
So I think you're Dorothy, is that what you said? I'm Dorothy. I think that is possible, not with private equity, but with still the owner doctors that still exist and the group practices that are ran by dentists, not private equity back. I think the influence is still gonna be, I mean, if you took the projections of what will stay private,
Kiera Dent (03:20)
Yeah, hi.
I agree.
Ryan Isaac (03:40)
and then the chunk of the group stuff that'll be non DSO non-corporate, that's still got to be 40, 50 % of the industry eventually.
Kiera Dent (03:49)
I would think so.
I mean, look at it right now. There's corporate dentistry within. And again, there's nothing wrong with any, because I have clients that are in corporate dentistry that run their practices like private. They take care of their teams. So it's one of those things I still think, like even if you are, and that's another way that we can influence this, if you are part of a private equity-backed DSO, you can still influence your practice. You're still the dentist working in the practice. You can still run culture. You can still run change.
Ryan Isaac (03:59)
Totally. Absolutely.
Yes.
and hit it.
Kiera Dent (04:16)
⁓ I know the doctors I have, they're part of a very large group corporate and things that we have done together, like I work with them, they're my only corporate practice that I work with, but we have literally influenced the top tier CEO. They've asked what these offices are doing differently. They're taking things that I've helped bring into the practice and they've asked like, what's changed in your practice? Like we hired this girl who teaches us to run it like private practice. Their culture's incredible. We're even right now petitioning up to the top people because they're writing off things that you can actually
bill out to insurance that they're making them write off when it's like, actually, no, we can bill it as a non covered service and actually have the patients cover. So I'm like, I do still think whether you're in private equity, but I think you've got to be a strong enough doctor where you advocate for the rights of your patients and the rights of your practice. And I'm super proud of my client who does this because her and her husband, they go to bat and they're like, they write some pretty direct emails to the CEO of this and say like, hey, and they're a big enough force. Cause I mean,
Ryan Isaac (04:55)
Mm. Yes.
huh.
Kiera Dent (05:15)
They're the top tier practice in their area. have them making like, we are adding multiple millions to their offices every single year. But I'm like, I think that's also how dentists, even if you're in private equity, even if you're in group practices, I think at the end of the day, are clinicians and clinic, like you are, you are the product. And I think that they have, I think dentists have more say than they might realize that they do to influence the industry and keep it more positive and more ethical than it could be otherwise.
Ryan Isaac (05:38)
Yeah.
Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree with that. We all know people who are in those group models that are still running like amazing, almost privately held practices. The other thing that's interesting that's different than medical, because it always gets compared to the medical field consolidation that happened, is medicine has a distinct difference and advantage in that they have hospital systems where gigantic campuses where they can house hundreds of doctors in one place, right?
It's just not that's not a thing in dentistry, which I think will will force it to stay a little unique, different than medical, because you can never have a giant campus building with, you know, 400 dentists. Yeah, like 500. I mean, I don't know. I guess never say never some some group might invent that and you know, like the dental campus of the city. I don't know. Yes, it's possible. But it seems a lot less likely. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (06:18)
Mm-hmm.
500 off, you imagine?
Say hi.
I mean, dental schools have a lot, but
I'm like, okay, I think the piece that would be really hard is to justify 500 beds, like 500 ops. You've got your hygiene that's cranking. So you gotta have, in a 500 bed, would need, like, we can only see 500 patients a day. so you can only see if it's 500 a day, that's how many patients you could actually see. I don't think that would be a full city, and we're basically taking over whole city.
Ryan Isaac (06:55)
Yeah.
No. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (07:03)
And then you might
not be pulling out that much dentistry outside of all of that to be able to fill that many doctors in their schedules. Cause so much of it's hygiene run, it's like a two to one ratio that I think that would be the zone. ⁓
Ryan Isaac (07:07)
No.
I love this analysis. Yeah, I
couldn't go that far, but there you go. That's exactly right. So I do think it'll stay different enough in nature because of that. ⁓ And yeah, I, to go back to the, love your question. We've been kicking this around a lot in dentists advisors and I want to reiterate the same thing. There's no judgment here. There's no right or wrong. For some people, it's absolutely the best decision to exit with the DSO and just find the right one. Take your time. ⁓
Kiera Dent (07:19)
There you go.
I agree.
Ryan Isaac (07:43)
to go through the deals with someone who really knows what deals look like, not just a friend or a CPA unless that CPA is looking at hundreds of deals. Call Brandon, right?
Kiera Dent (07:51)
Seriously, I'm like, why? He's got like every flavor of ice cream available of DSOs for you. And like, what are your goals with your financial advisor? What do you need to retire? And then you make sure that the deal is going to actually get you that because like you said, Ryan, it's your greatest asset. And that's where to me, it breaks my heart when people do this. And I was actually, when we were talking about assets, ⁓ there was a stress test portfolio that I heard at a conference that I thought was really awesome that I think about often. so thinking about when you said like, we're investing into this stock.
Ryan Isaac (07:59)
Yeah.
That's it.
Kiera Dent (08:20)
portfolio, like we're basically putting so much of our biggest asset and so many of our dollars into one single stock. And they said, just stress test your portfolio. If my two biggest portions of my portfolio. Okay. So the two biggest portions right now. And I think about this often, even you and me, Ryan, if those two asset classes dropped yesterday, cause I always do like, if they dropped tomorrow and you're like, well, I'd freaking move things. No, if it dropped yesterday, so there's nothing you could do. Do you have the staying power for things to recover? So like, I don't need to liquidate my assets.
Ryan Isaac (08:24)
in one single, yeah.
Mm.
Kiera Dent (08:50)
can still have income from our other assets and buying assets that are down. So looking at that, and I think about that often, like, so if your biggest ones are in the stock market and in your DSO and both of those dropped yesterday, like that's all that's gone. Could you still be okay? And if not, maybe look at other ways to diversify that portfolio. I'm not an advisor, Ryan. So you speak to like, if you agree or disagree on that, because that's my thoughts on it.
Ryan Isaac (09:11)
Yeah.
Although yeah, no,
that's a really ⁓ logical way to look at stress testing something. If the stock market disappeared as a whole yesterday, all, yeah, well, we just, every publicly traded company in the entire world would be gone simultaneously. We would all be in so much trouble. Like we just wouldn't have cell phone service or gasoline or, you know, like a million things. Yeah, for a minute.
Kiera Dent (09:26)
You say that we're all gonna go to the apocalypse, like.
Good thing you're by the ocean. You at least have a good time there, Ryan. I need
to get out of Reno, Nevada for that one year fact alone.
Ryan Isaac (09:44)
Yeah, yeah. For me, yeah,
it would work for a minute, but then we would have no grocery chains, there would be no shipping distribution, there'd be no trucking, there would be no like, you know, we'd be done within like a week. You know what I mean? So, but you're the logic of it is true. It's almost like what if we just looked at stress testing a deal, you know, and you said there's usually three parts in a DSO deal, there's the cash up front, there's usually some kind of earned back, or bonus system, that's usually a smaller piece. And then there's the equity piece.
And if one of those didn't exist, if one of those dropped off, what would this deal look like? And I think the question we have to ask is if the equity didn't hit, you know, if they don't get returns on multiples on their equity, like they're projecting and always, of course, the projections are huge, you know, always, always. If this does not come in like you expect, let's just say it's half of what they expected that which would be probably fair to say, or it's all you do is get your money back one day.
Kiera Dent (10:32)
always.
Ryan Isaac (10:43)
What does this now look like to you? Is this a survivable thing? And is this even something you would be interested in doing? But again, you said this before, I've been saying this, go talk to someone who knows what these deals look like, like Brandon. I'll give you an example. with a client a few weeks ago who had an offer. They were getting a lot of pressure from the group where this came from. They were kind of involved in like, well, I won't even say it. It was just a group of people of other dentists that were kind of pooling practices together. And this buyer,
Kiera Dent (10:50)
you
Ryan Isaac (11:14)
just a lot of pressure, a lot of hype, right? A lot of hype. And the deal as the details started coming through started smelling really weird. And even he was just like, I don't know. He talked to Brandon for 30 minutes and it became so obvious so quickly how bad this deal was. And now he's pushing the brakes a little bit. He's going to ramp up his profitability, work on the practices some more. He still wants to consider a sale, which is great with that's fine if that's still what you want to do.
Kiera Dent (11:38)
Yep.
Ryan Isaac (11:43)
But I think that conversation probably just saved him millions of dollars, literally in 30 minutes of conversation. So just talk to somebody, please, about these deals. There's every flavor out there. There's so many ways that they can twist and bend these things. And yeah, there's just a lot of moving pieces in there. So just be careful. Yeah, just talk to someone. Be careful.
Kiera Dent (12:02)
I would like, and what
you said, also think like, make sure that you're also selling it for top dollar. This is something I really love about working with you guys, working with clients is if we know that there's a sell on the horizon, think one of the best things you can do is truly like pulling a consultant, pulling somebody. And like I was talking to a doctor the other day and they're like, KK, we want you to come in and help us like with our systems, but they're selling in a year. And I was like, well, respectfully as your consultant, I'm not going to sit here and deal with systems.
Ryan Isaac (12:13)
Yes.
Please.
Kiera Dent (12:31)
If you're selling to a DSO, odds are a lot of those systems they're gonna bring into you anyway. Our best thing we can do is make your life easy right now, boost your production, reduce your overhead, increase your EBITDA so you get top dollar on the sale while making it like amazing. Like we'll still put systems into place. We'll still take care of your hot fires with your team right now. But like, why not go, it's like, if I know I'm selling my house in a year and if I did a few things to make it exponentially higher.
Ryan Isaac (12:32)
.
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (12:56)
in the next year of my sell, why would I not do that now? And for us, it's not even like a house where I'm just painting the walls. We're literally boosting your production. We're pushing your overhead down. We're helping your whole team get on board for that. So that way your asset really is the best asset you can get. And we're not doing it in a hard way. So I know it feels like a push, but just know Dental A Team's way is ease. So it's like, it's going to be an exponential growth for you, but with like ridiculous ease. And most of our clients, we just did a huge study across the board of hundreds of our clients.
Ryan Isaac (13:13)
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (13:24)
And on average, they're seeing a 30 % increase in their production and a reduction in their overhead within their first three to six months of working with us. So like even if you have a year or two year timeline, that right there, so getting the right deal, making sure you're selling it at top, like squeezing the juice out of every single thing we possibly can get out of your practice. ⁓ But then also I feel like what happens in that scenario, Ryan, I see it all the time, is when we come in and we like powerhouse it up with them.
Ryan Isaac (13:34)
Thank
Kiera Dent (13:51)
They're like, wow, I'm working two days a week and I would make what this DSO was going to offer me and I don't even have to work. Why would I get rid of this practice right now to the DSO? That happens more than I can tell you because it's like they didn't realize it could happen this way. And I'm like, just tell me what you want. Like you want the DSO, you want to work two days. Why don't we build you that right now and like keep the asset that you've got and sell it when you want, which is going to make you the same amount of money as the DSO, but it's on your terms.
Ryan Isaac (13:59)
Yes. Yep.
all the time.
Kiera Dent (14:20)
So I think that like people don't realize that you can have the benefits of the DSO today. I think the only piece you can't have like, but I give air quotes on can't is like, you still are an owner, but I'm like, there's literally ways for you to sell to partners, have it pay out to you. And you can actually get rid of that ownership piece if you don't want it ⁓ and still have it be the same type of a deal. I think like, don't forget that there's also deals outside of DSOs that you can do internally. ⁓
Ryan Isaac (14:26)
Yep.
Kiera Dent (14:48)
but it is shocking Ryan how many practice, like I had a doctor and he's like, Kara, I'm going to get 5 million for my practice on this. And I was like, rock on in two years, we literally will make you 5 million net post-tax in two years. was like, literally, and that's net that's post-tax like in two years. I was like, this is not a good deal for you financially if you're going after the financial dollar. So I think just be smart with how you look at this because I don't know, right. And you do it to me all the time. You're like, Kara, yeah, go sell.
Ryan Isaac (14:58)
That's what you're make in two years of income. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (15:17)
but you can also just get the life you want and have your practice and your business run differently, why not consider that scenario too? So I think.
Ryan Isaac (15:19)
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm,
yeah, okay. Sorry, finish your thought. I just like what you just said. I just love that. I was gonna ask you this exact thing. I was gonna ask you this exact thing. I was gonna say, Kiera, aren't there ways someone could step back and pause and say, why am I interested in selling to a DSO and then just try to create it through the work you guys do easily?
Kiera Dent (15:27)
Okay, so yeah, take it.
100 % and right you do
it to me all the time. You're like Kiera. Well, what would you want your life to look like if you were to sell it? I'm like, I would care if you stopped if you sold what would your life look like? And I'm like, I do this. I do this. I do this. You're like, all right, then why don't we just make your business do that today? I don't think people realize how like you can manipulate your business to truly support the life, the finances, everything you want. Like it's shocking. I'm like just basically give me the North Star and we will manipulate the entire thing for you.
Ryan Isaac (15:59)
Just do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (16:14)
in ways you didn't even know. like, I need Ryan to know our North Star where we need to get. Then we break it down to your, like what lifestyle you want to have. And then we just crank, like, it's like shake and bake. It's such an easy thing for us to do. And we're still doing it with like amazing ethics. It's under your control. It's your culture. It's your business. It's your life. But I mean, I have a doctor who's producing over 5 million a year, working two days a week, taking home DreamPaycheck and they were going to sell it to a DSO. And I'm like, it took us two years to get them to the offer.
and they're like, they're so happy and they're able to now, like you said, I think one of the best pieces on this is they got everything that they would have gotten from the cell. But in addition to that, they didn't lose everything that they've built to where now they can go build and create, like you said, the two day a week practice where they're having it, but they've kept their huge asset over here. And so I just think like, I don't know. I feel like there's so many more options on the table than people necessarily think there are. And so.
Ryan Isaac (17:03)
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (17:12)
Maybe don't listen to all the noise, be the smarter. It's like when everybody's doing X, maybe there's a Y that would actually benefit your life.
Ryan Isaac (17:16)
Yeah. A million percent.
Yeah. I mean, Warren Buffett has a quote around that. It's a little bit different with stock market buys and sells and greed and fear. But yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah. I love that you said that. I assume. What are we like 45 minutes already? I assume that you probably want to wrap this thing up, but I wanted to end it with that exact question you went there, which is like, can't we do this? Can't you? No. I mean, that's not the job we do. The Dental A team can help design.
that what you're trying to accomplish that you think some private equity firms gonna come in and give you. And again, let's all just remember, private equity firms, ⁓ they don't love you.
Kiera Dent (17:57)
It's true.
Ryan Isaac (17:58)
They love your money
and they are not stupid. There's a reason why they gobble up every industry in the economy is because they make us believe they're just giving us sweetheart deals. Like, they're gonna give us so much money. Isn't it so crazy? Like, no, they're really smart. They're gonna get so much more money from you than you're gonna get from them. So if they want your thing so bad that they're gonna chase you down and send you offers and every time you decline, they're gonna be like, okay, wait, what about this one?
Kiera Dent (18:15)
They are.
Ryan Isaac (18:26)
They want it so bad. You must really be holding something really special. So how can you make that thing become your dream scenario without having to give it up? First, just consider that again, no judgment. There is no right or wrong. Maybe that is your path and that is best for you. Great. If you do the work and the, you know, the research and you're just sitting and you're asking smart people like here in the Dental A Team, you know, about all the details and you're asking yourself why through all this process, that's just, that's the whole thing. So I'm glad you
Kiera Dent (18:31)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Ryan Isaac (18:56)
Assuming we're ending it soon. I'm glad you ended it with that because that's what I was thinking about
Kiera Dent (19:01)
Well, and I'm glad I'm going around the same beach because I feel like DSOs can be such a buzz. I think it's, I don't know. I just thought about, I remember when Jason and I were graduating from pharmacy school and we had a lot of debt on us and it was so tempting to go the 10 year loan forgiveness plan. So tempting. And Jason and I decided like, Hey, we don't want to like hope and bank that in 10 years, we're actually going to get all this paid off.
Ryan Isaac (19:07)
yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (19:29)
And if it doesn't happen, what's it going to cost us at that point? And so we elected to just go for it to pay for it and to basically have it like, it's within our control rather than someone else holding my future. And I think that's how I often live my life of like, is there a way that I can get my dream life or I'm not banking on someone else holding up their end of the deal, hoping and praying that their equity makes it and it's something that we can actually do with ease? Why not do that?
Ryan Isaac (19:33)
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (19:55)
Ryan knows it was a huge issue with me and Jason for about a year to pay off his student loans, but the growth and the life that we were able to achieve that we wouldn't even be done. We still would not even be done with our debt right now. And it would have ballooned and not all of the debt's being eliminated. Like there's so many things around these loan forgiveness programs that I think about that with DSOs too. You have so much banked in, the hope, the promises, like everything has to go right for this huge multiple to have it there.
Ryan Isaac (20:07)
yeah. Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Kiera Dent (20:24)
Is there maybe a few other paths that you could look at that might get you what you ultimately want, give it to you with more control on your side, and also be able to allow you just more flexibility and freedom. Again, no judgment. think what Ryan and I are trying to bring to the table is maybe just consider looking at things differently to see what's the best path for you. And I say like, right back at you, Ryan, use your financial advisors, know what your magic number is, know what you need, and then figure out which option is going to be that.
Ryan Isaac (20:48)
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (20:52)
while also providing you the dream life that you want. So Ryan, thanks for the riff today. It was a solid time.
Ryan Isaac (20:54)
Yep. Thank you.
It almost felt like planned. was so smooth.
Kiera Dent (21:01)
So, mean, it does help when we're good like peanut butter jelly. Like we're very aligned on how we see, that's why I think our clients work so well together because like Denali team clients going to Dentist advisors, it's amazing. We think on similar investment strategies and like just the planning and the protecting clients. And on the other side, it's, Hey, here's our financial number. Denali team literally can like give the gas and give the pieces to it of tactical. So thanks Ryan. was a good time.
Ryan Isaac (21:04)
Yep.
Hmm.
We all want to do. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. We want to grow and protect that business and make it, you know, it's your whole life. Make it as good as you possibly can. You guys are so good at that.
Kiera Dent (21:34)
Great.
Well, Ryan, if people are interested in connecting with you, how do they get connected? Because again, I think for me, before I even talked to DSOs, I always tell them like talk to your financial advisor, figure out your project number. That way you actually can then have even one filter on what deals you're looking for, what plan you need your business to be. So Ryan, how do they connect with you?
Ryan Isaac (21:41)
Yeah, totally.
Million
percent. So I'll always say friends of the Dental A Team always can email me directly. I'll always have a conversation with anyone no matter what you're looking for. You don't have to be trying to hire a financial advisor. You might just have a few questions and I will always get on the phone and talk to someone. Just email me directly if you ever want to. Ryan at Dentist Advisors dot com. It's with an O.R.S. You can all just also just go to our website dentist advisor dot com. have
probably thousands of hours of free content on there, podcasts, articles, webinars, everything. You can book a consultation with our whole team there at any time. go learn as much as you want, listen to anything, tons of free stuff on there, but that's the best thing. I'm always happy to have a conversation.
Kiera Dent (22:29)
It's amazing. And just so you know, Ryan does not take very many clients. So that's why I love him being on here. He's one of the founders. I think Ryan's one of the smartest people I've ever met. So definitely take him up on it. I know tons of our clients love meeting with Ryan because Ryan will tell you like, Hey, you don't need me or Hey, here's someone better for you. So I think it's just like, you're just an incredible human who ultimately cares and loves about these dentists, which is why I just appreciate you. So check him out. Yeah, of course. And for everyone listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time.
Ryan Isaac (22:31)
Yeah.
I do. Yep, I do. Thank you. Thank you.
Kiera Dent (22:59)
the Dental A Team Podcast.
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All the new tech out there available to practices can be exciting to get your hands on. But if you’re not integrating things in a productive way, it’ll likely end up in the digital broom closet, collecting dust. Tiff and Kristy talk about the best methods to use when bringing a new program, software, service, etc. to the team.
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Transcript:
The Dental A Team (00:01)
Hello Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here today. I have a really exciting, I don't know, subject today on our content and I'm actually really, really excited to talk to you doctors about this and team members, office managers alike, everyone who's here, this is great information for you. I have some offices I'm gonna chat about and just some things that they're doing really, really well I think with their dental assistants that's really setting them apart from.
other practices that I've seen or worked with or other practices in their area specifically. So I'm really excited to talk with you guys about that today. And I have brought on with me, of course, one of my favorites. I love all of our consultants, you guys, but Kristy, I know I just love your heart, like your heart and your soul and the love you have for other people. I love having you on our team. And I think that
No matter what content we're talking about, you relate to it in some way or you find a way to love on our clients regarding it. But I think today, like, I think it's gonna be a really cool one to do with you. So, Kristy, thank you so much for being here with me today. How are you? You're in a new home. hope, gosh, everybody, if you are a client of Kristy's, I'm gonna brag on Kristy right now. And Kristy does not brag on herself often, unlike any of us do. But Kristy moved states. She moved...
She moved states, you guys, without anyone even knowing. I told Kristy, and I will say it again, if I didn't know you were moving, I would never have known you were moving. And I know your clients felt that same way. So you guys, if you are clients with Kristy's, if you see Kristy on social media, you want to write in, like, please give her some kudos because you literally never would have known that you moved entire states. And now you are in comparison in my backyard. It feels like I know you're still like.
Kristy (01:49)
Yes.
The Dental A Team (01:50)
hot minute from me, but ⁓ you're here in Phoenix with me. So welcome to Phoenix, Kristy. How are you guys doing? How was the move? How is your family? Tell me.
Kristy (01:58)
Yep.
my gosh, we're doing wonderful. We're enjoying this weather. I know it's going to heat up pretty good this weekend, but we're enjoying it and just making the most of it. ⁓ Getting rid of boxes. How about that? We'll leave it at that.
The Dental A Team (02:11)
Yeah, yeah, good.
I know you went through a garage over the weekend, you said, and it is hot, you guys. Like, I was freaking dying this weekend. I'm like, gosh dang it, why does Phoenix do this to me? But I love it. I'd rather, I have to remind myself all summer, I would rather be hot and like dipping in my pool, you know, or my community pool or my friend's pool or whatever. Somebody has a pool somewhere. I would rather do that than shovel snow.
any time of the day, any time of the year. So I will not complain too much about our weather.
Kristy (02:46)
That's right, amen. I agree.
The Dental A Team (02:48)
Awesome.
I love it. Well, I know a lot of people, you know, follow our journeys and I just think it's really special. So thank you again, Kristy, for the dedication you have to our clients, to our company, and to the results for clients and non-clients alike. You really worked your tail off to, like, you know, you integrated just family and work so well. I think while I speak on behalf of your family as well, I think you really do it seamlessly and every one of us really truly appreciate you. So.
That's my spiel on Kristy today, you guys. And I'm so excited to jump into this and you'll see it in your newsletters. If you're not subscribed, go subscribe because there's a slew of information in there. And just so you guys know, if you're not subscribed to the newsletters, you should be. Those newsletters, we actually write them. So the consulting team and our marketing team, we put a lot of work into those newsletters. actually, we write a lot of the content that goes along with those. know marketing takes like one a month, I think, but gosh, there's
anywhere between four and six newsletters a month, and they are written by us consultants. So you're always getting the most up to date, accurate consulting information as possible from there. And then we do utilize those similar subjects in our podcast here. So today we are going to speak to one of the newsletter subjects, but we're actually going to spin it just a little bit. So if you're not getting the newsletter again, go check that out because it's going to have different information than we talked about today.
Our newsletter focus, our subject here is really, really focusing on dental assistants and new tech and how dental assistants should integrate it or could integrate it and what that looks like and just what we've seen and what we recommend as a company and as consultants on that standpoint. But something I really wanted Kristy and I to focus on today and to really take a look at and kind of spitball between us some ideas is really integrating the tech because I know dentists.
I know most dentists, I know the dentists we attract as well, dentists I've worked with are just like so excited about new tech and new everything and we want the latest and the greatest and I love that. I think it's because I think dentists are artists and I think there's just a huge massive creative space within dentistry and for those.
individuals who want to be in like healthcare, medicine, but really have that artistic creative side, dentistry fits really, really well for you guys. And the new tech allows us that creativity and to be up to date. But then on the flip side of that too, for the healthcare space, you guys really want the most up to date technology to serve your patients and to serve your community. So I think those both of those reasonings are super massive. But what I see, and Kristy told me, you know, if you see this as well,
What I see most often is that doctors are gung-ho. They're like, they're on all the forums, first of all, all the forums. And I know my office managers are like, get him off the forum. But they're on there, they're on all the forums, they're getting all the information, and they're researching the heck out of everything. And then they're jumping, and they're saying, all right, I'm going to get it, and then I'm going to get trained on it, and then I'm going to come back, and we're going to use it. And...
They go, they get trained on it, and then they come back and, Kristy, what have you seen in your history? I you've been working with a lot of dentists. You've worked in office. You've worked consulting. What have you seen most commonly? Doctors getting new tech coming back. What do you typically see?
Kristy (06:16)
you
It's multifaceted, think. I think that I see them getting very, very excited to implement it and show the patients the new technology and also for them to use it, like you said. Yet, I think they fail to remember that they sometimes forget to include the team on the training and then their team gets very frustrated. so quickly, ⁓ the doctor ends up getting frustrated because I've invested in this technology and ⁓ my god.
my team's not using it and all of a sudden it goes in the cupboard or you know they're not using it like they want to so ⁓ typically out of the gate that's what I've seen happen.
The Dental A Team (06:55)
Yeah.
sure
I totally agree and I have to say I've been that person right I've been the dental assistant that's like I don't have space for this like what are you talking about I know how to take an impression I'm gonna keep taking an impression and then I'm gonna take my backup impression because I don't trust the scanner right and I'm like
double dipping and wasting time and just really afraid to like jump right in because I didn't, I wasn't there. I didn't get the excitement that the doctor did. I'm not on the forums and truth be told, like I'm just trying to survive. Like I'm just trying to get to the next patient, trying to take care of this patient the best that I can. And I'm trying to get to the next patient and keep a schedule on track and you like flooding this in and you being like, Hey, it's Monday morning. Like I learned this cool thing. We're going to implement this really is like, it's like,
It reminds me of like a clock spinning and you've got all these cogs and all these wheels and then you put like this little toothpick in there and it just like stops and it's like trying and trying and trying until the toothpick breaks, right? And then it can go again. But like that's what it feels like when you're in like go, go, go, and we're going to keep the flow of the schedule and we're going to do all of these things. And then you stick this little toothpick in the cogs and we're like, no, and we're like fighting against it. ⁓
until it breaks and we're like, okay, cool, this actually does help. But it takes a minute for us to get there, I think. And I do think that it's just so sad on the doctor's side in most cases, because you guys are so excited for this thing and you're like, this is going to change our lives and I just need you on board. And it can be so deflating. so number one, I love new technology. Number two, human nature is to say no and to slow down and to be like, nope.
things are great the way they are, even if they're not working perfectly or super well, they're working enough to get us to the next step. And so we're not always gonna be super on board to just change something. Change is scary and we're like, nope, I'd rather stay where I'm at, because this is comfortable, whether it's right or wrong, than jump on board with change. So in thinking about this, as we're writing the newsletters, I'm like, gosh, there's so many.
There's so many things we can talk about with the tech. Like you guys know what that is and we'll throw it in the newsletter. Like, yes, it's there, but what do do with it after the fact? And something I have seen, Kristy, that I've seen a few doctors this year, then one in particular, he's a go-freaking-getter, and he is like go, go, go all the time, and he pushes for the change and he does it really well. But something that I saw him do recently,
in the last like year to two years is as he's growing his tech. So he's layering on rather than whole new. So he's doing a really great layering effect, especially with like the in-office crowns instead of being like, we're going to do an office crowns and dentures. He was like, we're going to do in-office crowns. Then we're going to learn to design a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. And now we're going to do dentures and we're going to learn to design. So one thing he's done well is he's been able to see the technology and then scale it back.
So like a reasonable learning capacity. Whereas I think dentists, your brains work that way. Your brains are techie by nature to a point. Like that's just, that's how your brains work. That's how you got through school. Not everybody is that way and that quick to understand things. Like my kid, he's gonna be an engineer. He looks at something since the day he could start talking. Like, I don't know, I remember him being like three years old and he's in the car asking me like, how does that?
work? And I'm like, I don't know. Right? Like, and so I'm like, how do you think it works? So then he's like, I think, you know, and he's constantly he's always done that, like he, or thought he had figured out how like traffic lights are put together, right? This was a funny story. Actually, he said, they take two giant bendy straws, and they stick them together. And that's how the traffic lights are built. And I was like, Yep, that's how they're built. But that's how his brain works. He's got that like, engineer.
thoughtfulness behind it, where I look at a traffic light and I'm like, thank God that's there. Like, thank God we're all stopping when we need to stop. I don't care how it was built or how it was put there, just that it works. So you bring new technology in, right? You've got Brody's mindset that's like, how does this work and why does it work and what's it going to do? Then you've got my mindset that's like, how do we get to the end? Like, what's, what are you trying to do with this? I don't care the mechanics of it, just like, what are we trying to do? And we get stuck. Now, if we had a
bunch of people on your team that thought the same way you do, right? So we've got a bunch of engineer Brody's running around, nothing would get done. Literally nothing would get done. You would just be talking about the process the whole time about how it could get done. It'd be theories running around and like, what if we changed this? And what if we took this tech that works and we'd like tweaked it? You would get nothing done. So then we try to, we try to take that mold and that learning style and smash it on top of people.
who don't necessarily think in that capacity. So what this doctor has been able to do is really take a step back and layer the technology and layer the training, Kristy. And then what he's been doing, I've noticed, is taking his team with him. And maybe not all of the dental assistants, right? Maybe the lead dental assistant and like one more so that two people know it. we're not.
We're not saying break the bank and send everybody to a course, but he has been able to take like two dental assistants to a course where he's learning how to design something or he's learning how to use a new scanner, how to use a new mill or a new 3D printer. Gosh dang it. Like I don't even know how to use those things, right? Because I'm not in office learning, but he's taking them and they are coming back with the knowledge. So then what he's done, and I've seen a couple of practices do this really recently with them, implant courses and
all kinds of new things. What they've been able to do is now it's not just the doctor, right? That one has all the knowledge. When are you going to trade them? Like, do you have time to do that? No, you actually don't, right? Now it's not just the doctor who knows everything, but it's also not just the doctor who is excited. And when you have people behind you in that excitement, one,
I think, Kristy, you don't lose the, like, you don't lose it as quickly, you don't get as deflated because you've got people there rallying with you. And two, Kristy, I think we can speak to this because we train teams. When you have more people behind the idea, it's easier for a group to follow. One person compared to three people on the same team is going to get everybody else following. So he's done a really great job at that. And Kristy, like,
from your perspective as a consultant, me just like if I was that doctor, how do you see that working for practices that you know? Like if we were to be able to implement this with more practices where they take them to these courses, how do you think that would change implementation in a practice?
Kristy (14:01)
my gosh, huge. And I think you spoke volumes to also doctor explaining their why, why they're wanting that technology. So number one, when they can take them to the course, number one, I don't have to spend all the time rallying them and exciting them, right? That excitement's already there. All I have to do as the owner or, you know, doctor that wants the technology is explain why and what's the end result they want.
The Dental A Team (14:08)
Yeah.
Kristy (14:29)
Here's the thing, many times when you start to incorporate the team behind it, they have better ideas for implementation than we do. And when they come up with the implementation ideas, holy cow, it's half the battle, right? And they're brought into the process. All the doctor has to do is keep reinforcing why we're doing this, why we want to change, right?
The Dental A Team (14:36)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah, that's a huge point, Kristy, because it's like that brain thing again, right? Brody doesn't always have the quickest A to Z, that process, because he's thinking about every single little thing, whereas somebody else coming in can be like, okay, I can get on board with this, and I think we can get there this way. And between the two ideas, like you said, implementing different ways could really, really be beneficial. And probably, Kristy,
I would imagine get more people on board too, because if they're like, those are gonna be too hard, it's too complicated. Somebody else simplifying it, that would get me on board. You throw something complicated at me, I'm like, sure, I'll get to that. That's my procrastination. I'm gonna get to that someday. I'm gonna do everything else first because it's easier.
Kristy (15:41)
Yep, I agree with you Tiff and here's the thing, doctor might short change. He might think, well, let's start scanning on every new patient and they're like, what the heck, we can scan every patient. So you may also limit what they're able to do if it's just your idea. So in you be the cheerleader, explain the end result and the why, but then incorporate them on how, how.
The Dental A Team (15:47)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
that's totally, that's a good point. Cause I've actually seen that too, where they're like, let's practice on each other. And then they're like, well, why don't we just practice on the patients coming in? Like we'll practice on each other for sure, but we've got 16 patients coming in. That's two scans, each of us today. And I've seen doctors be like, ⁓ okay. Do you just have to remember, think, and Kristy, you spoke to this, like you don't have to have all the answers and you don't have to have all of the ways. You have a group of people here.
ready to rally behind you if you let them. I do think, Kristy, I think we both have probably seen this or actually experienced it ourselves as well. When you give people that space to also be creative and to have some creative control over whatever it is, you get better buy-in, but you actually get better, like stronger people. I know I'm stronger when I have the availability to create what I need. You give me, you tell me what you want it to be.
I can create what that needs to look like to get there. I'm just a better employee. Like, Kira loves me more when I'm bought in, and I get bought in by being able to say, okay, I see what you want. This is how I think it might fit in. And then coming to you ladies consultants and being like, okay, what do you see? And I think to speak to that from the dental assistant space, if you're taking, if you have the availability, you have the...
the capability to take your assistant with you, at least your lead, he or she then can say, fabulous, this is how I think we could train on it. This is how I think we could implement it. This is how I think we could get buy-in. And you've got that different perspective from someone who's living, breathing, and working in that space. And I have actually a doctor, I just thought about this this weekend. I think it's this weekend they're going.
He's doing a sedation course and I know there's a ton of doctors doing sedation courses right now or they've already done it. I've seen both spectrums. So I've seen the sedation courses. I lived the sedation course that they brought no one and had and I've seen it. I've the same doctor that does really well bringing assistance did the sedation course on his own and that's why he started bringing his assistants is because he did the sedation course on his own and saw zero traction. It was so hard.
because there was so much information that he had to bring home to them that then he was like, we've got to have this, this, this. And they're like, I don't know what those things are. Like, I don't know what this means. I don't know when you expect us to do this. So this weekend, I've got a dentist who's going to a sedation course and he's bringing, I think he's bringing all three of his assistants actually, which is going to be massive because then they're going to be able to say like, I'll take this on.
I'll take this on and really like divvy out those pieces and implement it so much faster. The biggest thing I think doctors struggle with is the implementation process and it's because they take it all on themselves instead of sharing that love. And Kristy, I know you work with a lot of practices and I know this is like not new information. It's just needing to be heard. What do you suggest for those doctors who are listening that are like, cool, but like, I don't know who I would take.
And then, so I don't know who I would take and then how do I pay for that? how do I budget that? What do you suggest for those doctors?
Kristy (19:27)
Yeah, there's two parts to that tip. think number one, hopefully we're all doing performance reviews with our team and asking their goals, their professional goals. What are their growth opportunities for the year? If we're doing that, we kind of know the path that they're looking for, right? And hopefully through that, we identify areas where they want to learn. If we haven't done it, let's get it on the agenda to do it. But also,
The Dental A Team (19:53)
That's a good idea.
Kristy (19:54)
maybe reach out to the team and ask questions. Hey, I'm looking to learn more about this. Who else would be interested? You know, and before you tell them you're going, but I'm looking into this and just see who would be interested for one and ⁓ invest in them. And that's kind of what I heard you saying. When the doctors invest in their team, team members take great pride in that. Like I know
The Dental A Team (20:04)
Yeah.
Kristy (20:19)
I was privileged to have a lot of CE in the offices that I worked in and I always felt so honored, you know? And it just makes me a better me and I can come back and implement that in the office and help be a part of something bigger than myself. So investing in them is huge, but yeah. ⁓
The Dental A Team (20:29)
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that. I totally agree. think I was honored to be able to take a lot of CE as well. And it really did make me feel ⁓ invested in and special. And like I reinvested back in the practice. it's not to say that everyone's going to feel that way or going to utilize it that way. But I do think sometimes you just got to like go for it. You've just got to say, you know what, if it works out that way, fantastic. And if it doesn't, that's OK, too.
because I'm willing to see this through. I'm willing to go for it. And Kristy, suggestion of really chatting with the team and figuring out like, what is your future? What do you want this to look like? Where do you want to go? Kind of helps weed out to the people who are going to reinvest back into the practice or the people who are going to be like, that was cool, but whatever. You you'll be able to tell that. And budget wise with this practice that I just worked with, that's sending everyone to the sedation course, I make him do a CE.
a CE bucket. And so when he said to me, he texted me, he said, and when he listens to this, he's going to know exactly what I'm talking about. He texted and he said, Tiff, I want to send this assistant, like I've already got these two covered. And I said, sure, price it out. What's the flight? What's the hotel room? Do you have to pay extra for her to go to the course? What's your total cost? And what do you have in your bucket?
can you take that from there considering also any CE you're going to have in the future. You've already got two going. I don't care if you take that third. That's totally up to you if the availability is there. If the funds are there or you're willing to make that investment out of whatever funds you have, go for it. Just make sure you're always looking for that. So I do always, always, always say make sure you're dumping into some sort of a CE bucket for those pieces. And a lot of times doctors will think like, well, the CE course only costs this much.
You got to think of your travel as well. Just like when we come in office to you guys, when we talk to you about your platinum model subscription here with Dental A Team, where you're getting a one-on-one consultant, we consider all of those pieces too when we know we're going to be traveling to you. That's always considered in the cost of your Dental A Team membership. So same theory, same thought process, just make sure it's all bundled together and you know all of the pieces.
Kristy, I think I love the way we spun this one. If you're not getting the newsletters, please make sure to let us know and we'll make sure we get you subscribed because I do think this one is off the cusp of the newsletter and the newsletter is going to have a ton of really great information as far as actual technology. Our biggest piece today, Kristy, I think we nailed it, was really, really honing in on how beneficial it can be to one layer.
your CE, so layer your courses, layer your technology, make sure that it makes sense and that it goes in a trajectory that truly benefits the practice, team and the patients. And then really making sure if you can get your team members there to do it. Just gets people on your side, get people that can help you implement it when they know the knowledge. It happens so much quicker. I can quickly say we did sleep together as a team, we said.
and we took two people out of 17. When I was in office, and this was a long time ago, know, so sleep has come a long way, but two people out of 17 coming back was still really hard. So just make sure whatever it is that you're doing, whatever technology you're about to implement, whomever you can bring that will continue the progress and get people on your side, we can do it, invest in it, it's worth it. Kristy, any last words or anything you want to summarize that I didn't hit on there?
Kristy (24:23)
No, I think we did a good job there. I guess the only pearl that I would say is then when you bring it back into the office, rally together, gamify it. Maybe put a quantity of we're going to do this many and just celebrate when you reach your goals.
The Dental A Team (24:41)
Yeah,
that's a great idea. I love game of buying things. That was brilliant. Awesome. Thank you, Kristy. And thank you, listeners. As always, we are here for you guys. If you have any ideas or any hopes, dreams, wishes, desires on podcasts that you would love to hear more about, more ideas or anything like that, please don't hesitate to read to write in. We get those a lot at [email protected]. So send us what you want. And as always, leave us a five star review below, letting us know that you did enjoy this and also
I would love to hear your stories. If you guys are sending team members, taking team members, or you're hesitant to, please, please, please, please write in. [email protected]. Just like the newsletters, we do answer a lot of those emails that come through on the consultant side. So just let us know how we can help you and we'll catch you next time.
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Kiera is joined by Ryan Isaac of Dentist Advisors to dive into DSOs. They discuss such questions as: Are they the best financial choice for your practice? The best life choice? Are the horror stories true? And so many more.
Episode resources:
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Transcript:
Kiera Dent (00:00)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am freaking jazzed for today's podcast. It has been way too long. Me and this guest talk quite often on like life and personal and business, but podcasting it's been a hot minute. I've got Ryan Isaac from Dentist Advisors, my personal advisor, one of my dearest friends. I think we're siblings in another life. Ryan, welcome to the show today. How are you?
Ryan Isaac (00:07)
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Thank you.
I'm really good. just realized I was trying to hit mute and cough, but I hit like a chapter marker instead. So there you go. To your listeners or your ⁓ editing team, then there's a chapter marker while I'm coughing. So in your intro. Yeah. Tis the season.
Kiera Dent (00:35)
You're welcome. Yeah, that's fine. I'm
okay with it. This is real life. We're sitting on, I mean, Ryan, you're sitting on the couch. I should get like my posh chair. I've been considering changing up my podcasting zone. Yeah, of course. All of us can see it. We're excited for that.
Ryan Isaac (00:40)
Hahaha
Can I show you? Can I just give you a little vibe check here? I mean, it's actually, that's
the ocean. I'm on a little summer getaway for a second. So yeah. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (00:54)
my gosh.
That's amazing. So that's Ryan's
life. Ryan's living his rich life over there. He's like truly. So, okay. If you're new to the podcast, Ryan is my personal advisor. Like truly he actually works on. We talk about my life. He's helped me make some really good decisions and not make some bad decisions. So I feel like financial advisors. My best advice is you gotta just find someone you trust. And I know Ryan is way more conservative than me, but cares about me as an individual so strongly. And Ryan, huge kudos to you.
And so we talk about it a lot, but something we talk often is like, what's our rich life? And I remember Ryan for years, you were like living in your van, truly driving to California all the time to be by the beach, because you love surfing so much. So it just makes me so happy to see that you are living your best life by the ocean. You're doing what you teach all of your clients to do of living their version of a best life. Something that we try to do in dentistry and dental team too, like, hey, let's help your business provide you the best dream life you want. So that's Ryan.
Ryan Isaac (01:36)
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, thank you. And there's no there's no right way to do that. I mean, everyone has their own thing that's worth the money or worth spending on. We're just kind of joking around about this, too. There are people who will sit in ⁓ small rentals or apartments on millions of dollars because to them having lots of security and liquidity is more valuable than houses or everyone's got something different. But, you know, we're all we're all chasing it, hopefully.
Kiera Dent (01:57)
Catch y'all.
I think it's called the like emotional ROI and what helps you sleep at night in your financial world. So Ryan and I usually get on the podcast and we'll talk about finances. I mean, obviously dentist advisors, Ryan do a spiel. What is dentist advisors? Just so people know. I think you guys are financial advisors for dentists specifically. I'm not a dentist, but I can speak honestly, but a spiel. And then we're going to actually go like a hard left turn of what we're going to talk about today. Like really.
Ryan Isaac (02:26)
Ooh. Uh-huh.
Yeah. Thank you. ⁓
Yeah, yeah, our
on ramps coming up here really soon. We got to get over it. We got to get into the right lane. Dentist advisor started ⁓ almost A Team years ago now with me and Reese Harper. Shout out to Reese Harper. And yeah, we were dedicated to being ⁓ an independent fiduciary fee only ⁓ advisor for dentists to manage investments and give financial advice. Ultimately,
Kiera Dent (02:51)
Yep.
Shout out to Reese.
Ryan Isaac (03:17)
you know, a dentist path through school and debt and taxes and all the stuff they go through, ⁓ you know, buying a practice, building businesses. There's no reason why all of that should not pay off every it should pay off for every dentist. There is enough money to be made in dentistry. And so our job really and you kind of said this with the you know, in the intro, ⁓ I really do feel like just protecting my clients, you know, and that's a philosophy that we've.
built into our business. There's no reason why dentists shouldn't make it to the life they want and to the finish line financially. so, you know, ⁓ it's more about consistent, small, good decisions for long periods of time and avoiding like a few big mistakes that could derail you forever. So yeah, we have a custom financial planning process, ⁓ a lot of like reporting and data, and we just manage and track ⁓ dentist finances and make sure they end up in a good spot, safe and healthy and
Happy, hopefully.
Kiera Dent (04:15)
which I love about you guys, Ryan, and I really think you guys do a great job. And this is something you've taught me. And we have a friend who said a great quote that I feel should be your quote. I can't give it like, so you can take it and like make your version. But they said like regular investing is like vanilla ice cream. It won't make anyone jealous, but it always tastes good. And I felt like that's such a great way to look at how you've taught me how to invest. ⁓ At the end of the day, it's just a small, consistent thing. So I think Dentist advisors does really well. And Ryan, something you've done for me. ⁓
Ryan Isaac (04:24)
well. Okay, okay.
Mm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
.
Kiera Dent (04:44)
Like it's so dumb, but I know you're watching me and I know like when I, like you're really not watching me, but I feel like you're watching me.
Ryan Isaac (04:49)
Yeah, well, let's
hold that disclaimer here for a second. I see your numbers. I see your accounts. I see your emails. Every time you save money, I'm like, Kiera, good job in the email thread. Gold stars. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (04:53)
Like, I know he's not, like, he watches my account for sure.
That's
all it is. And I just know having Ryan there where I need to send it in every single month of what we're going to invest. We've talked about the plan has been such a game changer for me. So that's why I love Dentist Advisors. And like we said, we're now like taking our off ramp because Ryan and I want to talk about DSO sales. I think this definitely implies to a financial advisor. We have a lot of clients that we send to Dentist Advisors. We work such hand in hand with both sides. Like we love what you guys do. You love what we do. It's
Ryan Isaac (05:19)
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (05:30)
Truly like the best peanut butter and jelly sandwich or whatever your favorite. If you want this to be meat and cheese, peanut butter and honey, whatever it is, I think it's the best duo. Yeah, exactly. That is the best. Captain Crunch, but would you rather Captain Crunch or Reese's? Or.
Ryan Isaac (05:37)
Captain Crunch in 2 % milk, you know.
No. I would actually say
fruity or cocoa pebbles, to be honest with you. Or cinnamon toast crunch. Can we arrive there? Okay.
Kiera Dent (05:52)
We both disagree on that. So cool. Okay, can handle Golden
Grahams or are we like back to the s'mores run? Remember the s'mores Golden Graham?
Ryan Isaac (06:00)
Yeah, I do remember
the scores. How are we like not landing on the same one at all? What about honey butches of oats? Wow. Okay. ⁓
Kiera Dent (06:05)
It's okay. That's fine. I'm not like the biggest serial fan and I go through phases. I love Lucky Charms, but I'm not joking.
Those marshmallows give me the chills. Like I can't crunch into it without it being like full body chills. So I don't know. weird. But back on this. So we've actually had a lot of clients that are debating of do I sell? I sell to a DSO? And I'm like, talk to freaking Ryan.
Ryan Isaac (06:18)
Yeah, it's like biting Styrofoam. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah.
you
Kiera Dent (06:32)
I don't know what you want to do for your retirement. I have no clue how this is gonna impact you with your taxes. I don't know all the stuff, but what I do know is I'm a freaking miracle girl, so we're gonna get you top dollar for your cell, but like let's talk DSO. Cause also like DSO to not DSO, like I don't know Ryan, there's a million things. So let's Rift. You wanted to talk about this. I love this. Let's do it.
Ryan Isaac (06:41)
Yes.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
well, and so you said something a few minutes ago about ⁓ dentist investments. And yeah, like our job is to help manage investment money for people ⁓ in a really long term kind of boring way, if we're being honest. But yeah, it's very yeah, it's just like it'll be there forever. Just let it do its thing. But the biggest investment any owner is going to have is their practice. And that is the thing
Kiera Dent (07:08)
vanilla ice cream ish.
Ryan Isaac (07:18)
is why you and a team is so important because the thing they should protect above everything is their practice investment, their business investment. There's nothing more impactful to a dentist's entire life and not just their money, but their entire lifestyle, probably their mental health, their wellbeing, where and who they spend their time with. So it is by far the most important factor in all of this. And so the world that we're in now is that
DSOs are an option to sell to, to work with, to become a part of. They are in some shape or form, you know, supposed to become the majority of the industry in the future. I think that's a broad category. think the category is more like group practice will become the majority of the industry. I'd love to hear what stats you've heard and what you actually see. think people talk about, you know, 60 to 70 % consolidation in the industry.
becoming some kind of DSO or group practice. ⁓ yeah.
Kiera Dent (08:19)
Yeah, I was actually at an AI conference with
that just literally this last week. And they said that they're estimating 65 % of the market will become in the DSL world in the next like five to 10 years. So I think a lot of people are expecting, which is so funny to me because I remember, gosh, I think I was Mark, this is a long time ago, we were at the dental college. And so we're probably talking like,
Ryan Isaac (08:32)
Uh-huh.
Yeah, okay.
Kiera Dent (08:46)
2018, 2019, I remember talking to the students, like, what do you think is gonna happen? And I'm like, I know I'm unpopular, because even Mark wasn't on board with this. And I'm like, I think I'm unpopular, but I'm pretty confident DSOs will be the future. And they're like, you're full of it. They're like, there's no way. And I'm like, I mean, I'm not emotionally invested in this, but if I look at what's going on, my husband's in healthcare. This is what happened to pharmacies. This is what happened to mom and pop shops, like for medical.
Ryan Isaac (08:57)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (09:14)
I cannot think for one second the dentistry and with the EBITDA like offers that you're getting, it doesn't matter. And Jason, were talking about this the other night. I'm like, even if doctors want to have a legacy practice, that's great. You sell to this person, but this person now is younger. They have more debt and DSOs is like one bad day and this DSOs right on their doorstep. They're going to sell. Like it's just, I mean, you've got to some really strong guts around you to not think about a DSO. And I think DSOs,
Ryan Isaac (09:42)
Hmm.
Kiera Dent (09:44)
can often hit you at emotional times. Like Brian, you know me. There have been times that I told you like someone offered me a buck for Dental A Team, they could have it like one bad day. It's just like shirt. Like everybody has it in business ownership. So I think that that's where the DSOs are super attractive to people. But like I was talking to an office yesterday who's considering working with us and they're like have a one year buyout. And they're like, we're thinking about doing this DSO. And I was like, all right, but like what's your ultimate end game? What are you trying to achieve?
Ryan Isaac (09:46)
Mm-hmm.
yeah. Yeah. yeah. We all have those days. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (10:12)
you met with other people to talk about DSOs, there are other options and he's like, well, it's too big for these partners to buy. I'm like, well, it's actually not like there's ways for partners to buy you out if you want. think it's just, DSOs feel like the easy button, but I don't know if they're really easy. And I think that that's where I'm a little bit on the fence and I'm super jazzed for us to rift on. Is it really the best financial choice? Is it the best life choice? I don't know, Ryan, you know, the finances more than I do. just.
Ryan Isaac (10:14)
It's on.
Mm-hmm.
Same. Yeah.
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (10:40)
I do good job of helping people get their assets where they want them to be. So they have choices and options of what they want to do.
Ryan Isaac (10:42)
You do.
Yeah, so I think, you know, it makes a lot of logical sense, especially the way it started with DSOs, that it would have gobbled up a lot of the industry. Hearing 70 % made a lot of sense to me. Maybe we're just in a dip in a lull, which we totally have become, we've entered into that because of the, you know, the debt and rate situation that happened over last few years in inflation and, you know, just interest rates. Money got really expensive. It was hard for a lot of companies to grow across a lot of industries.
And, uh, but, and I, I'm, uh, I want to say these statistics correctly, uh, from smarter people than me in the DSO space. I think there's something like maybe, you know, 350 to 400 technical DSOs in the country right now. And I've heard in multiple sources that up to a third of them are in some kind of financial receivership right now. Meaning, and I know you've seen this with clients too. DSOs have grown and they purchase and they borrowed money and then
rates hit them and they grew too fast. They went ahead of themselves and they defaulted. And ⁓ there are some major DSOs, huge ones that I did not ever think would happen that went into default that are going bankrupt that are changing ownership. ⁓ People are losing their equity money, they're not going to get their payouts. ⁓ And they're they don't own their practices anymore. I mean, there, we have some clients in that situation. So
Yes to the consolidation in the future of that because of just that's the nature of economy sometimes in industries. And I don't know if it's going to hit 70. I don't know. It makes me wonder. ⁓ Those multiples are down a lot than they than they used to be. And they'll probably you know, they'll probably fluctuate, come back up a little bit more when money gets easier. ⁓
Kiera Dent (12:22)
I don't know anything.
Ryan Isaac (12:36)
Also, I think people are getting a little bit wiser to it. Do you see this? I mean, let's say three to five years ago, it was the most exciting thing to get an offer sheet across your desk and be like, know, some multiple of you, but this is insane, I'm done. I do find people way more hesitant and not as excited about that number anymore. What have you seen with that when people see those initial numbers?
Kiera Dent (12:47)
Made it.
think people are way smarter. think the grads coming out of school have been trained on business a lot more than say dentists 20, 34 years ago are trained and not to say dentists 20, 30 years ago weren't. I just think it wasn't like we weren't talking EBITDAs. You weren't selling like this. So you didn't there was no need for it. ⁓ And I think in the past, I think the reason people are more skeptical right now, Ryan, is because they're hearing the like horror stories coming through. So people are like, hold on. Maybe it's not as like
Ryan Isaac (13:12)
It's different. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (13:28)
rosy as it was. I honestly like DSOs might be a little bit of dentistry's dirty secret. Like there's a small piece of me feeling that way and not all DSOs I'm not here to blanket statement it, but I do think there's like, think the dentist is the one getting ripped off in the whole scenario. like, because Ryan helped me, this is where I, guys welcome. This is what Ryan and I used to talk about off camera, but I'm just going to like have the conversation here because I'm curious. So your clients, okay, so hold on.
Ryan Isaac (13:43)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, huh?
Kiera Dent (13:58)
answer your question, no, they're not as excited about it. And also I think that they're being flooded with a bajillion offers. And so almost like overwhelm of who the heck do I have? Who do I trust? Who do I know? 400 DSOs out there. They're being bombarded every single day. I have heard dentists tell me they get four to five offers every single day of a DSO, which is why I'm like one bad day, you click open an email and like bottom, bottom, there you go. So I do think Bron and Man.
Ryan Isaac (14:02)
Yes.
Yep. Yeah.
Yeah, you're done. Like, yeah, that's the buyer. Yeah, take it. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (14:22)
Brandon Moncrief with Dental Transitions is probably the smartest DSO man I've met and I think you and I have circled. He's really brilliant on like who he knows offers that you can get like he kind of knows how to navigate the DSO world of what you want, which I think is awesome. But what I'm curious on Ryan. Okay, so you said you have clients. So when you sell to a DSO, there's lots of different makeups of how they can do these deals for you. But let's say there's I think the most standard one I usually hear is they pay you about 50 % of your practice is worth like you're giving it to them.
Ryan Isaac (14:24)
Yes.
Yeah, I still send people there. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (14:52)
You also have them 50 % in equity in their business, hoping like with stock shares, hoping that it builds and that's like basically your payout. So it helps with tax. It helps with like future investments of the EBITDA. Those are the things that they're going to be dealing with. But my question is, so like your clients, they sold, they don't own their practices anymore. They're an associate there now ⁓ and they're getting paid. They don't have to do the management, billing's taken off of them, hiring, all that. But let's say these, so let's say I sold to Ryan Isaac DSO.
Ryan doesn't have a DSO just for clarity, but let's pretend I'm dentist. We got to make sure I don't want him getting in trouble. He's a financial advisor. So Ryan doesn't have it. okay, we're selling, okay, lies. We're selling it to Captain Crunch DSO. All right, let's just go safe. Captain Crunch DSO. Captain Crunch buys me. I'm now, I got my 50 % payout. have 50 % equity in Captain Crunch DSO and I'm now working as a dentist there, but I don't own my practice anymore.
Ryan Isaac (15:23)
Yeah, just so we're clear here. Yeah, yeah. I've highly regulated. Yeah, might be in trouble for that.
Kiera Dent (15:49)
Captain Crunch DSO is growing, growing, growing. Everything's looking good. I've got my stock in it. Captain Crunch loses its funding. They go bankrupt. What happens to me? Because odds are they go bankrupt. Another like lucky charms DSO is going to come buy Captain Crunch. Like they get a penny, dollar. What happens to me as the dentist when Captain Crunch goes under, but then lucky charms comes to buy me. How does that work for me as a dentist?
Ryan Isaac (16:02)
Yeah.
Yeah,
I'm watching that happen right now with a gigantic national specialty DSO with some clients. And what has happened is that their equity money is likely gone. So they got their payout money.
Kiera Dent (16:19)
Mm-hmm.
Even
with Lucky Charms coming in to buy it. My equity money's gone because it was with Captain Crunch. Do you love that I did cereal for you?
Ryan Isaac (16:28)
Thank
I love it. It's so good. And I'm trying
to like, like who's more evil in this hierarchy, you know?
Kiera Dent (16:35)
I think Lucky Charms isn't more evil. Lucky Charms is one who capitalized. They saw a dill. They don't care about the dentist. I'm not saying that they don't, but it's like hungry, hungry hippos. One goes out, someone's going to come buy it all. That's what they're going to do.
Ryan Isaac (16:37)
Who's more well capitalized? Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, this
would be such a good question for Brandon again, and I'll just second that every time someone has questions about deals, or they want to compare things, ⁓ or get to know the space a lot more, I send them to Brandon. So just find Brandon Monacree, if he's on all over the internet and all of our content. Yeah, there you go. So it depends on the structure of the deal. It depends on the fine print and the paperwork. ⁓ In the ones I'm seeing right now, these dentists
Kiera Dent (17:04)
dentaltransitions.com. Yeah, he's everywhere.
Ryan Isaac (17:17)
lot, their practices are not there. So their practices are still gone. And they likely are not going to they're definitely not going to get any return on their equity. Some of them depending on how early they got in might get their equity back or, or parts of their equity back. But a lot of it's just, you know, when another company when a big financial company comes in to save a bankrupt company, it's ruthless, you know, I mean, they're they're cutting and they're scrapping
as much as they possibly legally can. they'll do that, of course, because that's good business for them. So what I'm seeing, and again, I'll just say that it's probably different in every single scenario of this. But what I'm seeing is one that happens. ⁓ These dentists are losing their practices, they're not getting any return on their equity money, and many of them probably won't even get their full equity back. Luckily, some of my clients that I'm thinking of were in early enough and the fine print of their deals was good enough that they're going to get some of their equity money back.
Kiera Dent (17:48)
course.
Ryan Isaac (18:15)
⁓ that's it. They're done. So what really happened in that transaction was they got front loaded a certain amount of years of income, paid some taxes, paid off their debts and lost their practices and worked a job for three or four years at a very low salary compared to what they produce. ⁓ many of them got really burned out, bombed out, kind of lost their fire and spark for the work. ⁓
And they're back to square one. Some of them have enough money to be finished. What is interesting though is even the ones who have enough money to be finished are still contemplating starting or buying another practice where they can legally and doing like a really chill lifestyle two day a week thing. Really common. Other people will fully lose their equity. And in a situation, again, back to your point, a lot of people are
Kiera Dent (18:54)
and
Ryan Isaac (19:05)
Maybe it's not as excited about this. The multiples aren't what they were. Then they could come back. I don't know. A lot of people just say the longer this goes, the smaller the multiples will become, which is, yeah. No, we're definitely not. And so now we're talking about an offer where someone's coming to you to take away like your main, main asset, your cash cow, the biggest thing in your whole life. They're going to front load five or six years of income. You have to pay taxes and pay off your debt with that money first.
Kiera Dent (19:13)
which I would agree on that completely. I don't think we're half as high.
Ryan Isaac (19:33)
The deals that you mentioned, some are 50-50. I've seen them in thirds where it's like third buyout, third earn out where you have to keep producing and then a third equity. I've seen them 70-30, 60-40. They can really be any shape or size. ⁓ Yeah, but they're smaller. And so now we're talking about, you know, five or six years of front loaded income. You pay taxes, pay off your debt, and then you just hope that this company that bought you and essentially what's happening if you think about it.
Kiera Dent (19:48)
They really are.
Ryan Isaac (20:02)
You're taking like seven figures of money and you're putting it into a single stock. You're investing into a single stock and it's a very small privately held company. I know it feels safe and secure because it's your field, it's dentistry, know, all these things are, but you're taking seven figures of your money and you're putting into one single company where right now maybe up to a third of these companies are failing.
Kiera Dent (20:08)
Thank
Ryan Isaac (20:30)
It's not not a gamble, you know, and the whole kicker in all these deals, as you know, and your audience knows, Kiera is all in that equity piece. Everything else is just front loading your income for the next five or six years and taking away your ownership. And then, you know, really changing the nature of your career and your work. And it really does change people. It changes. And I'm not saying it's always for the worse, but it is change changes, teams changes, the patient experience changes, the culture and the vibe.
Kiera Dent (20:34)
huh. ⁓ huh.
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Isaac (21:00)
And so if that one little equity piece does not pan out the way that they say it's going to, ⁓ you know, that's the part that everyone's kind of wising up to. And if you're under, let's say, your late 50s, if you're younger than your late 50s, I think it's becoming a tougher decision for people to make. in late 50s or above, it's kind of like, I'm done anyway in three or four or five years. Might as well get top dollar.
even if the equity doesn't fully pan out all the way, it might be more than a private buyer. But even then, I've seen the math on a lot of things and like, it's close. And yeah, you've seen it all too. So yeah, it's tough. It's tough to watch the ones that fail. ⁓ Some of these, some of these, and you've probably seen, we're not going to name anybody, but you've probably seen them too. Huge practices, multi-location, huge DSOs that now...
Kiera Dent (21:25)
Mm-hmm.
Agreed.
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Isaac (21:52)
own these practices. And okay, here's a question for you. What do you think is going to happen, let's say 10 years down the road or longer, when all these DSOs have been bought by the next company and been bought by the next company? And then in the end, some like third and fourth party removed private equity firm, international private equity firms holding 10s of 1000s of dental practices around the country?
What is that like in the industry? mean, you're in the practice as you know that you're like in the heartbeat of that. What does that mean for the industry? What does that feel like? Does it feel weird?
Kiera Dent (22:27)
It does feel weird. And I think this is where I've been, I don't know, Ryan, you know me. just sit over here and think of ideas all day long. I've been like, how can we like, hi, I'm Kiera. I live in Reno, Nevada right now. It's like, how can some, I feel like I'm like Dorothy in Kansas right now. It's fine. It wasn't the destination, but it ended up being, it's fine. It's got really great. No state income tax. All right. That's really one of the main reasons we're here. It's not.
Ryan Isaac (22:42)
I like to write now by the way. Just a little shout out. like to write now. Yeah. Loud and clear. Yeah.
Yeah, fine. It's pretty in some seasons. There you
Kiera Dent (22:55)
But it's okay. We have Lake Tahoe. ⁓
Ryan Isaac (22:55)
go. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay.
Kiera Dent (22:59)
But only half of Lake Tahoe because California owns the other half. So it's okay. But I've thought about it. like, how can, like, it's like I'm Dorothy in Wizard of Oz right now. It's like, how can we somehow influence these private equity firms? And there might be no way. But these are the questions I think of often, because I do think if we're not careful, it will radically shift the way dentistry is done. And it will turn into a business rather than into our
Ryan Isaac (23:02)
Yeah, you're half.
Okay.
Kiera Dent (23:24)
our healthcare profession. I mean, I look at modern medicine, my husband's in it and it is a freaking drill machine. Like his number one thing was patient productivity and they had to have so many patients, otherwise they were going to fire providers. And their providers worked hard. They weren't getting paid what they like want to get paid. And so I'm actually watching in healthcare, lots of my friends in healthcare, nurse practitioners, doctors branch off and go open up their own practices because they're sick of working in modern medicine. So I'm like,
Ryan Isaac (23:24)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (23:51)
if we can look at modern medicine and see how the healthcare system has been working and how can we do something now as like you said, third, fourth remove private equity, owning all these dental practices, like is there a path? And I don't know, right? Like this is I feel like I'm like Dorothy sitting in Kansas of like how on earth can we influence it? But I'm like, if enough brilliant people start thinking this way, what can we do now to show that you can be profitable and ethical and still give great dentistry where we're not having to like,
Ryan Isaac (24:08)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (24:21)
not running it like a private equity business, but still showing. so Britt was like, we need to become the Wegmans. Like, have you been like up north, like Wegmans is an amazing grocery store. They're not the biggest, but they still are ethical. And I'm like, if we even had a few private equity that's third and fourth removed that would still run practices that way, I think dentistry would still feel the same. Something else though, that I think of like new dentists coming in that I think is really paramount is you've got to look at the future of the industry. I think the current doctors,
Ryan Isaac (24:39)
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (24:50)
that have been in dentistry have like safeguarded and kept dentistry like we're healthcare when we want to be and we're not healthcare when it doesn't benefit us. Like we literally have straddled the spine line. It's still a little bit of the wild wild west dentistry is not as regulated as far as like our fees and like what we're able to charge in every single practice and like insurance is schmuck. get it. But I'm like, you also only have $2,000 of max most of the time that we're dealing with rather than it being like a hundred percent of what your patient base is and like what the patients are paying out. So I'm like,
Ryan Isaac (25:11)
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (25:19)
I feel the pioneers of dentistry have actually done a really good job of setting it up to where dentistry is still very profitable. It's still able to be its own thing that I'm like, let's, again, I feel like I'm like Dorothy sitting on my soap box in the middle of prairie fields and saying like, hey, why don't we take a pause and just think of like, what's the future of dentistry as now the future pioneers of dentistry? And what are we going to do to our profession? Yes, there's top dollar. Yes, there's things about it, but is there a way to influence?
and make sure that the integrity of dentistry can maintain long-term. I have no answer to that, but again, this is Kiera Dent sitting on my podcast where I think that there is a voice and an influence and like on Dentist Advisors podcast, is there a way that we can influence our industry in ways that will protect and still pay out? Because I'm like, even if you don't get the 10X EBITDA, you still can get a freaking great payout if you do your life right to where you can be financially set up.
Ryan Isaac (25:51)
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Kiera Dent (26:17)
still be able to sell your practice, not have to sell it in ways that could potentially hurt the industry. I'm not saying one's the right answer or the wrong answer. There's no judgment on my side. It's just, let's maybe think and consider how it could influence. Can we get people that could be private equity higher up that could help protect it? Those are things that, and again, I'm just Kiera Dent here in Reno,
Ryan Isaac (26:22)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Same, okay.
Okay. Yes.
Kiera Dent (26:38)
Yeah, of course. And for everyone listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time.
Ryan Isaac (26:37)
Thank you.
Kiera Dent (26:42)
the Dental A Team Podcast.
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As the weather heats up and schools let out, there’s one main thing on people’s minds: vacation! In this episode, Kiera talks about maximizing the slow days and weeks at your practice, including batching vacation days, production goals, and more.
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Transcript:
Kiera Dent (00:01)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera, and I just thought this would be a fun one to release ⁓ right before we're prepping for summer, ⁓ because I know a lot of you want to take some summertime off, but our practices are still running, right? ⁓ A lot of times we don't want to close it down. Sometimes we want to close it down. So I thought, let's just pop on, do a quick tactical practical of what to do to have products for our team to figure out what to do to make this tour. You can have an amazing summer vacation and a profitable practice.
As always, Dental A Team is here for you. We are here for dentists and teams. We love consulting. We love working. We love making your life easy. We love helping you have the dream life that you've been looking for. And honestly, it's so magical to be able to help so many offices turn what they thought was impossible to possible. So today, let's dive in. Let's talk about, all right, I go on vacation, but my team's still working. What on earth should I have them do? Like...
honest to goodness, what do I do? So I'm going to give a few ideas, but before I get into that, I think it's super important that for future, some offices will actually strategically plan when doctors are off and when the full team is off. So what I would say is let's look at this and is this something that you want to do or is this a way to like max out all the vacations that you're looking to get done? Cause team members might be wanting to take vacation too, or is there a time of year that you want to take off?
that then the rest of your team could take off. So we're kind of like batching our vacations. Some offices will do that. And you can look at a projection forecaster and figure out, okay, how far do I need to go? What do we need to do? What would we need to produce? And it will help you actually set goals so that way you can be on vacation stress free. So that'd be number one. Other times offices love it. They love to where the hygienists are going to keep working pending upon your state laws. Front office is going to catch up, but what do we actually have them do? So that way they're working effectively.
we're able to move this practice forward. So things that I would recommend are always an operations manual. This is a great time. People always tell me, I don't have time, I don't have time, I don't have time. Let's actually get that operations manual completed. Let's build out the protocols, let's take the pictures, let's write the pieces. And we have an operations manual, a template in our, ⁓ in our virtual academy that all of our offices get.
And so like just certain things that you could do for like an office manager is leading morning huddle tracking. Like how do we track our production? How do we track our collections? How do we do our reappointments? How do we fill out our KPIs, end of day checklists, next day schedules, checking to see it? How do we fill out a scorecard of all of our metrics? What about for monthly closing the month by the fifth of every month? How do we do that? How do we set the supply budget for the next month? How do we do production and collections? Doctors, you might not even know how to do half this stuff I'm rattling off.
⁓ making projections for the years, putting in our OSHA training, our HIPAA training, who do we contact for all of that, ⁓ looking at payroll, how do we do team training. For schedulers, would be like routes look prep, new patient referral tracking, confirmation calls of all the patients, re-care calls to fill the schedule, patient check-in. Like these are the type of protocols going out to our dental assistants and hygienists. How do we set up for...
breaking down a room, how do we do a bridge prep? How do we do burr blocks? How do we do the seric machine, changing traps, charting, checking insurance eligibility, cleaning the mill, co-diagnosing treatment, crown prep, crown seat, downtime. There are about a bajillion ⁓ protocols that your team could honestly do. And we have this whole beautiful checklist where you literally, who's writing it? When does it need to be done? What does it look like? And also in our template,
we show exactly how these protocols should be done. So like at the beginning, what's the purpose of this? What are the steps? What are the supplies needed? And then a picture of it if applicable. So that way everybody knows how to make this template. Everybody knows what we're looking for. We have it in there. So it's like all of them should have a purpose, step-by-step, supplies if needed picture, and then making sure that they're all in a word format. You can also add videos as well if you want. But if I had this much time, this much downtime,
I would set it with my team of how many protocols that we need to get written or also updating my operations manual. It is an amazing time to get so much work done. And this is just, feel like like dusting the baseboards. Like it's annoying, it's obnoxious, but it has to get done. And so really making sure we're maximizing our time on that to get that done. That's a huge, long beast of a project that if I'm out on vacation, yeah, that's a great one to get done. Other things you can do while you're out for your team to have downtime is,
Some offices are swapping softwares and it's a great time to get everything prepped, have everybody take on training modules, things like that. So if you know you want to swap a software, great time to do it. Get your whole team trained, have a team champion, their job is to swap X number videos. Please don't say like go learn it. Nope. Take our like template of all these protocols, have them learn how to do it in the new software so that way they're able to train people. So I definitely recommend if you're doing a software change, go on vacation, have everybody learn it while you're out. And then we come in or not even just the software, but implementing like
if we're doing flex or we're adding weave or we're adding Modento or adding whatever it is, whatever software, AI, we're adding toothy, we're adding Lassie, whatever it is, it's also a great time for the training to happen, the onboarding to happen without all the patient noise. Other things during this time, this is huge where I'm going after re-care and I'm going after unscheduled treatment and I'm also going after collections. Hard, hard, heavy hitting on the front office. And what I say is like, let's set goals before we leave of what we're going to collect, what we're going to get done.
That way we're on the same agreement and alignment with each other. We're not sitting here like, I hope and pray they collect this much money while I'm on vacation. You also can do this when you're on CE because you're out of the office, set it up. Let's think about these things. These are great things for you and your practice to be doing. They should be happening consistently, but this is where we get like that big oomph, that big like, my gosh, we got to get this done. So it's operations manual. That's a huge lift calling on all your own schedules, re-care. Like I literally would have it.
Pound out how many we've got, like how many days we're going to be gone. If my scheduler is not seeing any patients, but they want to work, they should be able to get through a pretty hefty list. Now you might say like, but Kara, we're booked out so far. And I'll say, high five. We still need to make those calls for when patients fall off the schedule, but also get them booked even further out. You just built yourself a VIP fast, quick fill list that then when patients do fall off, we have all these patients teed up, ready to go. So I'm always pro. Get them in, get them in, get them in, make the calls.
Same thing on unscheduled treatment plans. Let's get all those patients scheduled in, like clean it up. And that means we print out the whole list of unscheduled treatment plans we're going through. We're cleaning up treatment plans. they ⁓ didn't accept treatment and they denied it, we need to clean it out of the treatment plans. We need to clean it up towards an actual list. We need to call patients. And I prioritize, I'm not just going down the list A to Z of calling patients. I really want my team to get the best bang for our buck. So I'm going to look to see what do need to fill our schedule for to hit our goal.
let's go find treatment plans that fit that amount, fill those in first. So let's prioritize the treatment plans that we want. And then after that, I'm going to suggest that your team starts to clean it up, call your TC should be able to get through that entire list. So I've got my scheduler calling all their re-care. I've got my TC cleaning up all of my unscheduled treatment when I'm gone for, and this would be if I was out for a week. If I'm only out for a couple of days, there are other things. Then we're going to go after that and we're going to go to our billing. So this is like office manager, biller.
We should be able to in one week's time if we have no patients truly, they should be able to get through your almost your entire AR list if not the whole AR list. So I prioritize which days am I calling on insurances. I'm going to be calling my patient balances. I'm also going to prioritize which ones I want them to do to make sure that we're hitting our biggest bang for our buck because we can collect. Tiff and I were talking on another podcast. sat there for a couple of minutes in an office, called and collected on three accounts very quickly and easily.
but we need to go into like the mindset we're here to help these patients. We're here to collect the money. We're here to serve them, ⁓ figure it out. Now this does not mean we're sitting here texting. So many people are like, we're calling, we're texting, but I'm like, no, no, no. We're calling with intentionality to get the AR cleaned up. Like your job in one month is to collect, I don't know, a hundred grand or whatever it is. So setting that goal and expectation and agreement together really makes it to where a doctor's like, we're getting us out of the hole that we got into.
We're doing these big hefty projects that we've been putting off and we're really making a huge movement. So those would be like real quick. Now for your hygiene team, if they are there, I recommend that they are seeing patients pending your state laws. And dental assistant teams, this is where we're going to go through. You can organize your supply closet, clean it all out, put the tip out bins in place so we cut down our supply costs for us. Notice every single thing I'm saying is propelling your business forward. Every single one of them. We're not sitting here like, I really want to reorganize my ops.
Well, great, if you're reorganize your op, you're making a protocol for it, a template for it, and you're making all ops exactly the same. ⁓ If we're doing supplies, we're not just sitting here like cleaning house, we're putting tip-out bins, we're making it towards a more efficient ordering system, we're actually moving the needle forward rather than just wasting time and spending time. ⁓ Those are some really big things for every single department. You could organize the burr blocks, we could figure out our inventory, we could get an inventory thing in place.
We could work with a buying group. could negotiate deals on that. We could get a membership program put into place. ⁓ We could work on our marketing, like our TikToks for the next hour long. Now, if I was having them build out all of my marketing videos while we were out, I would limit it to, I only want you working on this for two hours because marketing's so fun and your team could sit there for so long, but that's more fun in its brand awareness more than it's going to drive and get results moving forward.
So those would be some things that I would do. ⁓ You can go and answer all the reviews and answer every single one of those. So you boost up your SEO to get it higher on the algorithms. All of that would be stuff that I'd be building out, mapping out, putting things into place. But really, think getting that ops manual updated would be something so valuable. Calling on all the unscheduled re-care, calling on all of our unscheduled treatment, going after our insurance and AR. And even if you've got clinical team members,
give them some of these lists. They can call on unscheduled treatments. They can call on re-care. They can call on balances. They can call and sit on hold with insurance companies. Imagine if you will, you've got five phones going on different insurance companies and when everyone picks up, the biller goes and pops over to that. Like that is huge efficiency to get through these lists, to get things resubmitted. And also if your team members have to come and listen on insurance, you better believe they'll be much better at getting those claims. Correct information. Update your note templates if we're noticing a lot of these balances aren't getting paid. Why?
How can we fix this forever and move it forward? So I'm always looking for what are the like cobwebs that don't just make us feel better, but actually move our company forward. These are things in the doctors, when you come back, you're like, wow, like, and have them report. I always love them to report like, hey, I was out, what did you get done? Like tell me your wins. What did we end up like? We were able to schedule 50 patients while you guys were out. That's amazing. That's a good use of the time, like absolutely worth it. We were able to bring in.
I don't know, 100,000 worth of unscheduled treatment plants. Like, frick, yeah, that's amazing. We were able to collect $100,000 worth of balances and that took out 55 or 100 accounts that we were able to get through. They should be able to get through way more than that, especially no patients, no interruptions. Now, when I have that, also make sure that I'm like, hey guys, I want you to have a good time. I'm out. I also really do expect that we see results from this. So let's set this up. That way all of us are on the same page. Here's extra projects if we get done earlier.
Could you imagine if you came back and your whole operations manual was done? No, this is not fun. So if team members are going to be working there, I want it to be something that's moving our business forward. I don't want it to be like, we're just sitting here cleaning the mill. No, we can get that done. We have to get that done. That's urgent. That will get done no matter what. But what won't get done is the unscheduled treatment list. What won't get done is the AR. What won't get done are the operations manuals. Things that we won't like.
Urgent things are you will sharpen your instruments hygienist. I promise you, will. This is not a time where we have everybody out that we just sit there. That's a nice to do, but it's not a must do. I'm looking for projects that move you forward that we wouldn't otherwise take the time to do. I know people will sharpen instruments because it hurts your hands. So you'll get that done. I know you will reorganize ops. Like things like that, like things that are urgent that always will get done. That's not usually the week that I want that to be done. I don't want you cleaning the mill. You have to do that. I don't want us like
sending out all of our cases, like we have to do that, that will get done. What I want us doing are things that will move us forward. So hopefully that gave you a bunch of ideas. A lot of times we'll actually work with teens when doctors are out and just get that operations manual done. We're working with them, we're checking in with them, or we're helping with the billing. A lot of these things can be done when you're on vacation. So hey, if you're like, I don't want to have that conversation with my team. I don't want to tell them I'd prefer a consultant to do that. Right, that's what we're here for. But hopefully that just helps you think of all these other ideas that your team can do that are.
moving you forward while you're gone rather than just like having a good time while you're gone. Again, I want it to be play. want to be fun. But if I'm paying them, I want to make sure that we're actually getting the results and we're moving things forward. That way we're not wasting our time either. So as always, I hope this was helpful. I hope it was informational for you. And if you need more tips or tricks, be sure to get on our newsletter. We have a lot of these things. If you haven't joined us, be sure to subscribe. Head on over to TheDentalATeam.com There is a newsletter link so you can join it. You can be a part of it. I'd love to have you be a part of it.
And if you're like, gosh, I just need help on my practice. I don't even know where to start. Schedule a call. We actually go through an entire practice assessment, show your blind spots, give you valuable tips and resources. I'd love to chat with you. But go enjoy your vacations guilt free, having a solid plan in place with your team. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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Tiff and Dana are in the mood to talk about moods — specifically when it comes to setting the tone for patients and case acceptance. The two discuss overcoming objections from a foundational level, including your mindset, effective language, and more.
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Transcript:
The Dental A Team (00:01)
Hello Dental A Team listeners we are so excited to be here with you today. I have back on the podcast with me Miss Dana. I am so excited to see your beautiful smiling face today and gosh Britt did Rim to Rim, Grand Canyon Rim to Rim recently and Dana
I've lived here my whole life. I am an Arizona girl. I love the mountains and I'm like, gosh, people just go out there and it's like, why didn't you bring water? Right? Like you guys are crazy. You've been here for a long time. You hike avidly. Your husband hikes more avidly than anyone I know and knows the Arizona mountains like the back of his hand as if he grew up here. And I'm like, yeah, I could do rim to rim. And then Britt got back and I was like,
Dana (00:47)
you
The Dental A Team (00:48)
Okay, Dana, like we should do Rim to Rim, but holy cow. If you guys don't know what Grand Canyon Rim to Rim is, please go look it up. It's like an event that people literally, my boyfriend says to have like, you take it for granted. People literally come here from other countries to see the Grand Canyon. I do take it for granted, that's fair. But hearing Britt's story, Dana, I'm like, holy cow. If we are going to ever do that in our lifetime, I think we need to start today.
What do how do you prepare for that?
Dana (01:18)
Yeah, my biggest
takeaway is like the planning of it because I like because I avidly had because my husband like you're right hikes more than any human on earth like I'm just like we can just go do room term and honestly, I'll be like I was like, no, I'm doing rim to rim to rim. Like I'm not loving at the first. I'm not starting at just rim. And then hearing her I'm like, Okay, well, I definitely need to plan.
The Dental A Team (01:22)
Yes!
Literally.
Yes!
Yes!
literally the same.
Dana (01:45)
more
because I'm like I hike in Arizona all the time. I know what the heat is. I know how to hydrate. I know how to do all those pieces. I'm like but maybe I should plan it out a little bit more.
The Dental A Team (01:54)
Literally what I said, my takeaway was I did not do planning for it and I didn't, I just, I don't know, I'm take it for granted. I didn't think it was necessary. I'm like, I hike, I work out, I run, I do the stair climber, I do cycle, I do spin classes. Like I am pretty okay to just like sign up for a race and do it and whatever and I thought the same thing minus the rim to rim trip. I was not going an extra rim.
I thought I could just pop over and do rim to rim like no big deal people do it all the time constantly can't be that hard just kidding just kidding so I think we need it on our bucket list here within the next I would say three years based on the fact that I'm over 40 at this point I'm not gonna lie to myself I'm not I need to get myself three years to get this sucker done ⁓ and probably shorter than that so Dina we just need to prep and plan for this sucker
Dana (02:53)
Yep. Yeah,
we just need to pick a date, right? Because if I don't pick a date, can think I'm going to plan all I want. ⁓ So I just need to pick a date and then I will force myself to plan. Now that I know how much prep I should probably put into it.
The Dental A Team (02:55)
We need to a Yep.
same. Same z's.
I agree.
I agree. I tell people that constantly. I'm like, gosh, the most fit you'll ever be is when you know vacation is coming. You will have bikini body ready when you know that vacation is coming. But when there's not something planned, you're like, I'll do it. I'll eat this for now and I'll make it up later. I do it constantly. So you're right. Okay.
Everybody just congratulate Britt for surviving rim to rim. And that's a real statement for surviving. Um, it's a huge feat. It's massive. So if you are on our Instagram, which I'm sure you are just give her a shout out. If you see her face in there, if you're one of her clients and didn't know she did it, congratulations. Here you go. Text her. Um, but it was super cool. So Dana, we're going to put it on our list. That's our next to do. We'll add it to, uh, our fitness challenge thing over there.
channel. Today guys, I wanted to talk about more than the Grand Canyon, but seriously if you don't know what it is, you should look it up. And if you are planning on coming and you don't live in Arizona, like seriously you think we need to plan like prep and freaking plan you guys? There was another hiker this weekend and it's not even our true ⁓ hot season yet and there was another hiker this weekend in Phoenix that did not make it through her hike and she was an avid avid hiker. So it's no joke you guys.
⁓ Please be safe. So on that note, overcoming objections is actually what I wanted to talk about today. So rim to rim is my objection today. I'm not ready for it. I get that. But overcoming objections in the practice, you guys, we really want to talk about case acceptance and what that might look like. And doctors, office managers, I know sometimes we get in the space of like, this is for my treatment coordinator. Doctors, this is for you too, especially when you're chair-side treatment planning. Because sometimes I feel like
Dana, feel like doctors get that look of glazed over, like, okay, either this is too much information or I've checked out because I have an objection, but we just talk through it, right? And how many times have we even done that in a personal relationship? That makes me laugh because I'm thinking, even my kid, I'll just keep talking at him and wait for him to catch up. And then he's like, yeah, sure. And then turns around and I'm like, I don't think that's gonna happen. Whatever that was. He checked out. He's obviously no, right? Yeah.
Dana (05:24)
I'm thinking that, no.
The Dental A Team (05:27)
Like he checked out and I didn't catch it. So the moment when there's a checkout, like that's your objection. There's an objection in there somewhere. Either it was overload of information or they're just not, they're not on board yet because of a reason. I like to go into everything assuming, yes, I live my life that way. My boyfriend's constantly like telling me that I'm like a golden retriever. Right, I'm just like, yep, life is great, what's next, let's go. Because it's just a detour. Whatever it is, it's just a detour.
And it's an opportunity to gain more information, in my opinion. So if there's a no, if there's a roadblock, I'm like, cool. What can I learn from this? What information do I need in order to get around this roadblock? Or should I be taking a different route? So it's a detour. So when I go into a treatment case, when I'm presenting treatment or when I'm training team members to present treatment and doctors, I'm constantly in the yes mindset.
Tony Robbins talks a lot about mindset, about mind frame, on where you're supposed to be, and that yes zone is massive. If I assume the yes, I'm leaving opportunity for that. And Dana, isn't it true, like when you go into a conversation with the like, yeah, everything's gonna be fine, you're more optimistic, right? You're not set on an end result necessarily, and if it's not fine or a yes,
it gives you that opportunity to create something new. And do you feel like Dana, I have a question, an actual real question, because I live my life this way, but like, I don't always check in with other people. People coming to you with that open mindset, right? That like, yep, this is gonna be fantastic. Does that then set the tone for you on that conversation? Like you as a person, whether it's personal, professional, whatever it is, does that set the tone for the conversation for you being like, okay, well, this is an opportunity?
rather than it being like, this is a conversation. Like, how does that feel on the other side,
Dana (07:24)
Yeah, and I think it's funny that you asked that question. I agree, it does set the tone and I think though it's harder to see when it's from that mindset.
right? Like I think we very easily see when someone negative sets our tone negative, right? But I don't think we always understand that like the initiative and the consciousness that the person that is setting the positive tone is doing. And so I think it's harder to relate to or harder to think that it works because it's very easy to spot it when it's the other way, not necessarily when it is the positive outlook and the positivity that breeds the positive. So I love that you specifically asked that question because I firmly do believe it. I think it's just a
The Dental A Team (07:33)
Yeah.
Dana (08:03)
little bit harder to see.
The Dental A Team (08:05)
Yeah, that was a
huge massive point because it's like anything we're always going to remember the negative more than the positive, right? So I always tell teams, well, number one, this rolls into case acceptance as well because if you get a no and you carry it, you're always going to remember that no, you could have 10 yeses today and that one person said no to two fillings. And it's like, oh, I suck, right? But I just sold 10 freaking implants, right? But it's like getting your hair done. And I say, you're walking down the street.
walking down the street and you're like, gosh, my hair, it's so good. I got bangs today. And you've got like nine people walk by you. And they're like, dang, I really like your hair today. I really like your hair, right? Nine people tell you, you look amazing. And one person stops you on the street and they say, gosh, I like your hair, but I'm just not sure I would have gone with bangs. When you get home or when you get into your car, what are you doing? You're looking in the mirror and you're second guessing your choice on bangs. You're not saying,
Nine people and myself love my hair right now. You're saying one person's second guest bangs. Why did I do this? Should I have done this? And I think that's exactly what you just said too, Dana. It's really easy to be like, gosh, they just like came in so aggressive and just totally changed my mood. This person put me in a bad mood. One of my least favorite statements of all time. I get to choose the mood I'm gonna be in. That's my power and my control.
ain't nobody taking that away from me. But we say that, right? Like this person just totally changed the mood, but it's not always noticeable when someone comes in with a positive, right, or an open mind and they change that or they keep the mood that you've been in. You're totally right. It's not always noticeable, but it makes a huge impact. So your patients may not notice that you're like, hey, let's go. They may not notice that they're like, yeah, like let's figure this out instead of being in like a gosh,
Dana (09:49)
Mm-hmm.
The Dental A Team (09:59)
treatment mood. So huge point there, Dana. I love that you pointed that out because going into it with that mindset, you're not going to reap 100 % of the accolades and the rewards. They're not going to be like, thanks so much for being so positive all the time. You might get that every now and again, but we're looking for that feedback and we're not always getting it. So then we get worn down and we're like, why even try? When you're tracking your results, you're going to know why you try.
when you're tracking those yeses, when you're just tracking the conversations even, like you're not always gonna get a yes, that's okay. And that's what we're here about today is those objections. When you go in with that yes mindset of like, I can do anything. It's not always this person's gonna say yes to this treatment. It's this person is gonna say yes to their health and we're gonna get them there. So I go in thinking, this is a huge opportunity to learn more about this patient and to get them healthier.
I don't always go into it, which I think is a mindset shift, Dana, for the healthcare field in general. We think like, I'm selling treatment. You are selling treatment, but you're selling someone their health back, right? So I'm selling you back your health. You are unhealthy. You came to me with a deficit, and I'm selling you back your health, right? And so when we put it in that perspective, we put in the perspective of learning and opportunity, it shifts the mindset quite a bit. So.
That was a fun tangent. Thank you everyone for following along with us. I hope you gleaned some opportunities there and some mindset shifts. I think it's huge. Now, Dana, when they do come in, they're like, okay, we've got this, we've got this. And then they're like, I'm just not ready. Like, what do you, you train a lot of systems, you train a lot of communication and a lot of ⁓ verbiage, that people like to call it scripts, right? What do you tell your teams is the best path to take?
when you do get an objection.
Dana (11:54)
Yeah, I think that I think first of all, Mr. Preface that right. I always try to teach teams that anything outside of a yes is a no. Right. So but there are no's that are true no's and then there are solvable no's. And so it's it really helps teams to kind of know the difference. Like a true no would be I'm leaving tomorrow to go out of town for three months and like I truly cannot do the treatment. Right. Or ⁓
I just bought a new house and haven't paid my first mortgage payment. Like I want to wait until I make that that's a true no, right? Or there's then they're solvable knows which are, you know, gosh, I don't know if I'm ready or I need to talk to a spouse or ⁓ that's a lot, you know, that's a lot financially or all of those are solvable knows and usually the easiest way to solve them is to ask better questions to find out what is the actual
barrier, right? Because driven coordinators, we teach them a lot, you've got a lot of tools, you've got a lot of things that you can offer patients. ⁓ But what I want you to do is hone in on what to offer instead of throwing the book at them, right? Like, well, here are all of my solutions and now you choose. Well, they don't actually know what those choices mean, or they don't actually know what to pick in those choices. So I think it's asking questions to get down to the bottom of
The Dental A Team (12:56)
Yes.
Dana (13:09)
what is holding the patient back so that you can provide the right solution for that patient.
The Dental A Team (13:15)
Yes, I totally agree. You made me think of ⁓ the game Guess Who? Do you remember that game? When we were little? I think it's back around again and they have way cooler pictures, by the way. Ours were like, ours were bad when it was like trending back when we were kids. Anyways, Guess Who is the game where you flip your board up and you've got all the pictures of the different characters and you're one of the characters on the other person's board. You've got your little card down here.
and that other person is supposed to try to guess which character you are by asking questions. So you say, do you have dark hair? No, okay, great, we'd mark down all the dark hairs. Then we say, do you wear glasses? Yes, okay, so anyone who doesn't have glasses, we mark down those guys, and it leaves you with a couple of options, and you narrow it down until you're so sure you have the answer, and that's what I feel like treatment coordinating is like. You have this massive board.
of options, of opportunities, and you're like, okay, great, what do we need to overcome today? And we're narrowing it down until we get to the actual root cause or the root issue that the person's suffering because...
I mean, I'm not gonna lie to you. I've seen so many memes recently and I'm like, that is so me, where they're like, if she says she has to check with her husband, I mean, she doesn't wanna go because she ain't gotta check with her husband. Like, that's me. If I'm like, let me check our calendar. I know what our calendar is. And if I'm saying that, I just don't feel comfortable telling you no in the space that we're in. I'm gonna text you because it's less invasive and it's less confrontational. So I'm just gonna text you later.
Right? So when they're like, I need to talk to my husband, right? I have had instances, I do have to, I do have to caveat this. I have had instances where that is a hundred percent true, but I've said to them, totally, I completely agree with you and I would never want you to make a decision without consulting your spouse financially. I never support that. Right? I want you guys to be on the same page. What I would suggest is let's set up a consultation where both of you can be here with us or can he come, is he here? Can he come in?
because what I'd hate to do is for you to get home and have to try to reiterate everything that I just said today and everything that you learned from the dentist. That's a lot of information for you to carry. It's a heavy weight for you to carry, and I'd love to help support you in that. So is he here? Is she here? Can we get you guys scheduled? Now, I've got a soft no, a soft no because we're not scheduling the treatment yet, which you
Dana (15:44)
Thank
The Dental A Team (15:49)
You still can, you can say, let's schedule this for two weeks out, let's get him in before then, right? Let's hold the space, let's get you and your spouse back before that, so let's try for Thursday, whatever. It's a soft no, but I'm still scheduling them for something, and I'm still providing support for my patient, because I want my patient to be healthy.
That's all I want. I want my patients to be healthy. And if it means that I have to have an additional conversation with a spouse in order to get that patient healthy, I'm going to do that. I'm 100 % going to do that. So whatever that objection is, it's finding that space around the objection that's providing the ultimate benefit to the patient. So I've even had it, Dana, you said even like vacation. I've had patients, we have snowbirds in Arizona. Super cool.
Phoenix gets a ton of snowbirds. We love you all. Sometimes the roads get crazy, you guys. It's fast driving here. You got to keep up. Anyways, we get snowbirds and these snowbirds come. They're like, gosh, well, I'm heading back in two weeks. I'm like, shoot, like I don't have anything in the schedule for two weeks in the next two weeks. Right. So I'm like, hey, let me see what I can do. Let me see what I can move around. Let me see whatever. If I can get them in, I will. Or we've had snowbirds that are like, hey, I'm only gone for three months in the summer. I'll be back.
1st of September, great. Let's schedule you for the second week in September because I want to make sure this is taken care of. And if for some reason something gets worse while you're gone and you've got to see your dentist back home, tell us. We'll take it off the schedule because I just want you to get taken care of. So if you get it done there, let us know. If not, we're going to put you down for the second week in September because I just want to make sure that they're investing in their health.
to the best of their own capabilities. And I have the tools for them to do that. Something I talked with a client about last week, was not everybody knows. Patients don't know to ask the questions they don't know. And I was in office with a practice last week, and we were talking about ⁓ educational overload and confusion. And we often over talk because we're trying to educate past objections we think people might have.
And in response to that, we can create decision paralysis and just educational confusion. And something that I said was, if you're giving them this much information, like there's so much information, sometimes they don't know what questions to ask to gain clarity. And so Dana, to your point, us asking them questions will bring that out.
Dana with that said, what kind of questions do you train teams to be able to ask either chair side or at treatment coordinating upfront?
Dana (18:49)
Yeah, so I think that it comes down to just like, ⁓
Asking questions to understand is it is it a like do you understand the actual treatment right? Like do you understand what a crown is? Do you understand? ⁓ Do you remember what the doctor said as far as why you need the treatment? Do you know what will happen if we do nothing right because I think some of the times it is like they may understand the treatment They may know what a crown is they may remember why but they they struggle with
How do I put they struggle with like, where do I prioritize this? Right? And so if I've got an AC repair, right? Well, it's 110 degrees out in Arizona. And if I don't have AC, right, like, so where do they put it in their priority list of things to get done? So sometimes it's okay to say, Hey, what other big things do you have coming up? Right? Because you may be able to help them with that priority.
The Dental A Team (19:29)
Yeah.
Dana (19:50)
Like, the doctor review with you, if we do nothing, what's going to happen, right? Do you understand the risk of like not doing this treatment, where that puts you? So I think it's just figuring out what part of it they don't understand. Is it the actual treatment? Is it the reason for the treatment? Or is it that they don't know how to prioritize it in all the things because life is busy, right? And things are happening and there's other expenses elsewhere. And so how can you help them prioritize where to put that?
The Dental A Team (20:11)
Yeah.
Dana (20:19)
in all of the other noise that they have going on in their lives.
The Dental A Team (20:22)
Yeah, and to that point of prioritization, Dana, in addition to that, I think a lot of treatment plans are delivered with this is everything you need, okay, goodbye. And there's no prioritization put on the treatment that is next, the next visit. And I had a doctor recently tell me, well, like, it's their mouth. And I said, you are the only person that can make this decision with and for them. You have to tell them what the most important next step is, even if it's like,
All of this is about the same. Where I would start is upper right. I don't know, what's the easiest, what's the hardest? What do you want to start with when you don't know the priority? The issue is that patients don't know a lot about dentistry. Most patients don't know a lot about dentistry. So when you leave it up to them, they're making a decision based on not a lot of knowledge. You have all the tools under your belt.
prioritize the treatment that needs to be done and then help and assist your patient in prioritizing getting that treatment done. I love it. So I would say in an effort to overcome objections, first and foremost, be open-minded. Go into it as a conversation, go into it as an opportunity, and make sure that your mindset is set. If you just got off of a really hard call, if you just had a patient berate you, if you just walked down the street and someone yelled at you,
I want you to be like, okay, how can I shift my mindset right now? And then ask all of the questions. What questions can you ask that help prioritize your patient's treatment? So you place the priority, go in with an open mindset, you tell them what's next, what do they need to do next, and then help ask all of those questions. You guys just get them over the hurdle. Do not assume what their hurdle is.
because you can implant an idea and make yourself some big problems there, ask the questions. I love it. I usually say, Dana, be in the why, or be in the what. Be in the question. You guys, if you go into any conversation open-minded, meaning leaving room to ask for more information, whatever that conversation is just became tenfold easier. go do the things, you guys. Dana, we got to put rim to rim.
You can do the extra rim if you want. I'm doing two. We gotta put it on our calendar, rim to rim. You can all wait for you at the other side and pick you back up if you're doing that extra rim. But we gotta put that on our calendars. And Dana, thank you for podcasting with me today. I love our time together. Listeners, thank you so much for being here. As always, write in at [email protected] and let us know what you think. Thanks so much, everyone.
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Kiera returns with the Green Park Dentistry team, Chief Operations Manager Jeff and Dr. Andrew Sugg, to discuss tips for those who want to evolve their leadership. Jeff and Dr. Sugg share their own journey, which included immersing themselves in a new community.
Episode resources:
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Transcript:
Kiera Dent (00:00)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera, and this is part two of Dr. Andrew and Jeff talking about, they already went through their expansion, what they did, and now I really wanted to get into the nitty gritty of what makes Andrew so incredible as a doctor and what makes Jeff an incredible leader in his practice to get the growth and the success that they've been able to have. And I'm so excited for you to experience it. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.
Kiera Dent (00:24)
Andrew, can you walk us through, what do you feel are some of the things you do so superior? Like, I want you to brag a little bit. This is a moment where Kiera Dent is so freaking proud of you. Tiff is proud of you. Our company is proud of you. ⁓
because I think other people want to know how to do this. So I almost want to peel back the curtain just a little bit on what are some of the things you do really well in assembly? Like I said, Jeff, chime in too. Then we're going to reverse. We're going to talk about Jeff and Andrew, you can chime in on him. So like both of you can just schmooze each other tonight as well. You guys are going to have an amazing night post podcast. You're welcome. All right. But truly, Andrew, what are some of the things you feel set in part?
Jeff & Andrew (00:52)
Yeah, thank you.
Well,
that leads into a great, was going to say, like, I feel really lucky to have Jeff, obviously. And I know not everybody has a Jeff or can trust someone as much as I trust Jeff. But I think obviously it can be very hard on our marriage. So that's one side note. And I know like a lot of couples that that happens. But I think I have to always. Right? know. Two years ago, I was worried. And in gay years, that's like 40 years.
Kiera Dent (01:19)
I'm so proud of you. 10 years in and you still, I think, love each other, which is amazing. I think
everybody is. You're like, okay. But it's one of those things also though, I will say, like throwing it out to couples, when couples go through what you have gone through and you're able to like be through the thick and the thin of it, I will also give advice. Like when I watched people go through dental school, and Andrew, I'm sure you saw this, I was so angry at so many of our like friends that went through.
Jeff & Andrew (01:33)
you
Kiera Dent (01:46)
Like they went through the residencies, they got to the end and I'm like, you freaking made it. And that's when they get divorced. And I'm like, Oh, if you're to get divorced, get divorced during the hard times, but like you have made it. You've made it. And now it's like, it's a matter of like, we bonded together, we grew together. And I think like making sure that stays a priority in your marriage. You guys remember I was a marriage and finally therapist prior to this. Like that was my thing. I like, Oh, don't give up on what you like. You went through the freaking hardest years together. Now it's like, enjoy this amazing life we built together.
Jeff & Andrew (01:50)
Yeah.
Right, yeah. All right.
Yeah.
Yeah
Kiera Dent (02:16)
and don't lose sight of how grateful we are for one another. anyway, like off my tangent, keep going.
Jeff & Andrew (02:20)
No, that's
that one. So I guess that's that's part like that's kind of part of my after always remind myself I need to be very appreciative for everyone around me. So that's probably number one. And I guess that goes into like, you need to kind of check your ego, right? Like as much as everybody wants it to be all about the dentist and all about me. I'm really just the guy that does the dentistry and I enjoy kind of being like that side note, like I'd rather people come talk to him. Right. So I think like the more you can step back and see yourself as that clinician is very beneficial. And then
kind of let, again, the people around you lead and be those positive lights that they can be, that's like how you're gonna grow, right? And then I think that goes along with an associate where, ⁓ again, kind of being humble, like, yes, I know a lot, but I don't know everything. And I learned stuff as much from the associates or how they do things differently as much as they may learn from me. And I think when you come to a situation more with ⁓ curiosity and...
really trying to find how you can learn and be better every day, then they only want to do the same. So you really have to lead by example, lead with curiosity, really come to work every day, just trying to do better for people around you. And I want to chime in. think you lead from your heart too. You have a passion for people and you have a passion for what you do, dentistry. Like you live, breathe, speak it all the time.
Even outside the office. You're always- Too hard, right? Shut it down. You're always seeking new things. You're always at speaking with Dr. Parks about, what do you think about this? Or how would you approach this rather than this point of, hey, I do it this way, you have to do it. You do approach curiosity. And I think the frequency that he's able to, the amount of time they spend together in this office, they share an actual office. ⁓ So they're able to compare.
Kiera Dent (03:45)
⁓ And now you look beautiful!
Jeff & Andrew (04:14)
Everything all the time. So if at any time that they're both in the office together I could walk by they're always talking about a case or how they could improve something or how could we approach this or This is funny. What like what should we do? You know, it becomes this collaboration and less of a like we're having a calibration meeting this day for this time We're going to talk about X. It's kind of a constant Yeah, like I listen in on his new patient exams. He listens in on mine. And yeah, it's just a
constant thing. I think, honestly, again, that was a necessity that that started that way. And I think in our old office, it was actually me, Jeff and Dr. Parks all in a room that was really meant to be for me. And we all were crammed in there. And eventually Jeff moved because he got tired of listening to us talk about dentistry.
Kiera Dent (05:01)
I was gonna say that's why
Jeff's not in the office. He's like, I don't wanna hear about this dentistry. hear about it way too much. You two have fun.
Jeff & Andrew (05:04)
He's like, I gotta get away from Yeah. need some space. Yeah.
So that wouldn't have been a decision I probably would have made if we had all this space, right? So I think it is funny, like again, that necessity and just kind of trust in the process and learning what you can. But I'm like, I'm so grateful for those early years and like he and I have such a bond now that we're excited for our next associate and bringing him or her into our office and making them a part of our little dorky dental group.
Kiera Dent (05:32)
love it. And
I mean, Jeff, you're right. But I if I'm to have a dentist, I want the dentist who talks nonstop about dentistry. I know that's not probably so nice at home. Jason has an alarm on our phone for us. So, Jeff, if you want to take like marriage tip from me and Jay, because I will talk about business forever. And he's like, shut down, girl. The alarm goes off at five every night. And that's when I have to stop talking work. And it goes off like it's every single day. Six o five. I know what time and I'm like, OK.
Jeff & Andrew (05:40)
I'm
Hahaha
Kiera Dent (05:59)
That's my time limit. So you want to talk about like a show? I'm like, I don't even know what I'm about. So it's a really handy thing for me to have to shut it down. But Andrew, I am curious on that. I think a lot of doctors struggle and I love how you talked about like, this isn't how I do it. Like, what do you think and how can we do this? I'm curious. So let's say you saw of a future associate, we'll use Dr. Parks right now, cause that's one you know, you won't know the future one's personality, but
Jeff & Andrew (06:01)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (06:27)
Let's say you see dentistry that's not up to your standard with Dr. Parks. How do you go and have that conversation with him to where he feels supported, but at the same time, you don't allow your culture, your brand, the type of dentistry to go out the door without having, like, people don't know how to have this conversation because you're both dentists. So how do you handle that with Dr. Parks?
Jeff & Andrew (06:46)
Yeah. So I think, ⁓ kind of bring it back to like what he's doing it for, right? So it's not about me seeing a problem, but it's like, hey, here's how this could maybe be a better outcome for your patient, right? Or I would like argue, I would like to kind of always spin and make myself an example. Like, hey, I used to do it this way, right? Like, or I used to do something different, but my old mentor who I love and admire, like she helped show me the way, right? And I've really learned a lot from her. So I think that's also where
like for our future associate, need to make sure that that is a key component of their culture is to be open and constantly learning and be curious. And ⁓ I think that is definitely a big goal of ours is to find that in the next person. And that's where we also feel very lucky with our associate. We know that that's not ⁓ very easy to find an associate and kind of have that success with it. So again, as much as I'm appreciative for Jeff.
I'm very appreciative for Dr. Parks too, and I think it shows in our relationship as well.
Kiera Dent (07:46)
Yeah. Well, I think like also though, when you've built a practice to your size, you normally now get to be choosy and picky. I feel like when you're like a little bit smaller, it's kind of like, I got to like help someone wants to come work in this like amazing brown, purple, green popcorn ceiling and share an office with me, my husband, and you get to be in here too, like Harry Potter corners all the way around. But now you get to be even more choosy on who comes forward because you've got this amazing space. You've got the place where someone wants to come.
Jeff & Andrew (07:56)
Yeah. Right.
Yeah. Seriously. Right.
Kiera Dent (08:14)
And I think that's gonna be really awesome to watch you grow on that next one. So thank you for that. Jeff, I wanna pivot to you. I've watched your leadership. I've watched you grow. I've watched you run a team. I've watched you go from Gilbert to Jeff. I've watched you sit in meetings. It was so fun to see you in person. It has been far too long for me. It was pre-COVID since the last time I saw you. And we met in person and I watched you. You sit there with this inquisitive mind. You sit there with this, you've got a...
Jeff & Andrew (08:31)
I know.
Kiera Dent (08:41)
depth of knowledge that's just impressive to me. And also I've watched you grow in your leadership. I've seen you, I talked to Tiffany and you're in your community in leadership courses, you're doing pieces. I just wanna know, and Andrew, this is now where you're gonna like love on Jeff on this, of how have you gone from where you were to where you are today? Like I know that's a whole process and I know that's very broad, but just even thinking of some of the strokes that you've taken, I know you and Tiff have worked super hard. I'm gonna give like mad kudos to Tiffany and I'm sure you will too.
Jeff & Andrew (09:08)
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (09:08)
But
I'm just curious because I think leadership is so elusive for so many people. And yet I've watched you like take this on this, but you're also a baller. Like you don't get run over. You have hard conversations. You speak up. You're very brilliant in what you do. Andrew, I agree. Jeff's a machine. I watch him. He's like, all right, got my list. I got all these things. I'm going home. Andrew, this is what we're going to do. You think, Jeff, you think Andrew's running the show, but.
I know that who's really running it is you. Like you're like, all right, this is getting done. We're getting all this done. This is where the lights are going. Everybody move in on this day. But you do it with poise and grace. so I'm just curious at like tips for people who maybe are trying to evolve in their leadership, things that you've done to be the, like truly, I think you're a huge example of a successful leader. And so it's okay. This is your brag moment. I know it can be awkward, but I really am just so proud of you and excited to hear what you think has been part of that evolution of you.
Jeff & Andrew (09:37)
Yeah.
Well, the first, thank you. That's like, I want to cry right now. Thank you. You don't often hear that. ⁓ So thanks for that. ⁓ Honestly, know, I had a little experience ⁓ in my past career about, ⁓ you know, it was an industry that's off offshore. So it's a difficult industry.
Kiera Dent (10:06)
You're welcome.
I feel tear-eyed, Luke, because I'm just really proud of you. Like truly.
Jeff & Andrew (10:27)
for me personally to enter into, know, with these rough, greasy, you know, I'm not scared of dirt, obviously it was geology, but, you know, a lot of people aren't socially aware who might be working with them, you know, so, you know, being gay in an industry like that, that's nobody's like, ⁓ did I offend somebody by what I said? That's, you know what I mean? So that's, you kind of get a little bit of a tough skin there, right? So I've had experience.
With that, I've had experience managing projects ⁓ offshore. I've had experience managing projects onshore. I grew up in a family that my dad, my parents are business owners and I was put to work for not a legal pay at a very young age. So I just learned like, I've got to work to do this stuff. then, you know, fast forward to meeting you guys when I was unhappy, I was like, what am I going to do? Right? So you guys, you, Tiffany,
the collaboration, the tools, the building blocks, the confidence, the empowerment that you were like, you can do it and you're the only one that is, right? ⁓ So that led me on it. And then we went into the catalyst of showing up to that office that day with a different vibe and then seeing that it works. ⁓ So then I think naturally we moved to this county from a very different county in Florida that a lot...
Kiera Dent (11:46)
Thank
Jeff & Andrew (11:55)
population was very different and we're in a very different population here. So we did have some fear coming in. So we were cautious about, you know, how we represented ourselves, if we made a big splash. And then as we realized the momentum of the practice and the service of what we were doing, it was gaining momentum and people came to us for our service and our dentistry. So then that gave us confidence to be like, okay,
this is what people want. And I think part of my mindset ⁓ in creating the vision and how the business that we want is thinking about past jobs and what did Andrew not like about ⁓ how he was treated by a mentor, previous employers, or how he had to follow a protocol to do this to the patient. And we realized, I kind of just have a challenging mentality, like why?
You know, like, can we do it different? Should we do it different? Yeah, we probably should, because that's what everybody wants, right? So then we started to see those little pieces gain success and the community be like, we're going to them because they do that different. Differently. Differently. Thank you. We call them by name, something as simple as that, you know. It's like, wow, that's a big difference. So then.
Kiera Dent (12:51)
.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Jeff & Andrew (13:14)
I think I'd encourage people to start looking in their area. I didn't realize the opportunities that our county and like had around us, right? So I started to take advantage of that. I to the chamber, we joined the chamber. ⁓ And then that led me to an opportunity for leadership Catawba. We live in Catawba County. I was like, let me try this. was, you know, a small time investment in the big picture. And that introduced me to people in our area that I was like, you're
I can lean on you now and I can use you as a resource. How can we work together? Then I was just learned so much about our county and the riches of it, like what sets this county apart. And I was like, I love that. That's what we try to do in our business. So then, you know, as you learn about your surroundings and how like the local government works, you can start to make those contacts and start to go to those people and then you become a source to them as well. ⁓
So in that, I learned about other opportunities. took an HR class at our local, our community college. I was like, I should probably know some like legit HR stuff, right? Right? Like before we build this giant dental practice. So that led me to the community college, which the HR class was in the furniture academy. So that led me to a relationship where in a big furniture area where they were custom building as they were teaching students creating furniture for a dental practice. So.
That opened up a community door. Then we started with the building. The whole purpose of buying a building bigger than we need it is so we can put that vision forward and ⁓ create a big collaborative space. But in doing so within our own space, we did create a large conference room, a little kind of event space that we've welcomed Hickory Football Club in. are soccer teams, we've had Girl Scouts in, we've had other nonprofits in.
It's kind of become a space that we can host and collaborate with the community and welcome them into our space. I kind of love that. I think it's been the curiosity and kind of just little incremental like, cool, this sounds cool. I'm going to do this. And then that leads to so much. And we were even just saying like the whole like our building is so big. Like we have an area that we actually offer like a nonprofit in the area to come. were they were losing their space and they came here and it's led to so now I feel so fulfilled that I'm
helping someone in a way that's not dentistry, which I never thought I would do. And so it just feels good to like given that way that we never imagined and it's led to so much more. So I think that curiosity is led to that. That's where with Jeff, like he really is like so amazing at being good, being, he's living by that example, right? Like he's gonna be here every day. He's gonna be put in the work. He's gonna do all these things and he's inspired now that he did the leadership we've sent.
one of our other staff member or team members. And then we've got a third one that's about to go to leadership Katawba. So it's just kind of led to a lot of inspiration for the people around us. And yeah, I think that the more you can kind of be there for others and let others kind of lean on you, it's just really, like that sense of community is there. And I think that's where too, you kind of start realizing you're not there for everyone and everyone's not going to love me as a dentist, but I get, there'll be enough, right? There's enough people. yeah. And we feel good about what we're doing.
And we know we're raising people up and it's raising us up too. So, and I think it's really important to ⁓ provide opportunities, like learning opportunities outside the practice, because that's where connections really get made.
Kiera Dent (16:41)
Yeah.
I Jeff, was just I agree with you, Andrew. What I was hearing, I'm like, I always am listening for like, what's the pattern? What's the silver lining? Like what really sets you apart? And I think Jeff, it was truly hearing the curiosity and also the drive to be the best. Like I should go learn HR. Like this is a zone I'm gapped in. And instead of it being like, well, let's just like find some for you. Like, no, I'm going to go learn. I'm going to hunker in. Then I'm going to figure out how I need to delegate this out. And I have a sign over here from Gandhi that we've given our leaders this year and it's
Jeff & Andrew (17:15)
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (17:20)
A sign of a good leader is not how many followers you have, but how many leaders you create. And I think, Jeff, that's something you're doing really incredibly well of creating more leaders around you and rising more people up around you. And Andrew, the same thing for you. You're rising these doctors up around you. You're bringing your team up with you. And I think it's so beautiful to see. So I'm just really proud of both of you. And it's like, it's just such a fun thing to be able to give back to both of you and to just highlight how many amazing things you have.
My last question for us tonight is where you're wrapping up is what's next? Like what's next on the radar? Like business-wise, personal-wise, like we built this, we had this vision, but I believe like if we stop dreaming and we stop evolving, then we stop growing as well. It does not have to be large, Andrew. You don't have to have like a huge next, like we're building ⁓ a city. I could see you coming up to that big, all right, Jeff, we're like build our own city now. But like what's next? Like what's in the next like one, two, five years?
What's it looking like for your practice, for each other, where you guys at? And I'll let anybody take this on. What's next for you guys?
Jeff & Andrew (18:21)
Yeah, well, think for, well, I did want to say one more thing about ⁓ inspiring leaders, because I we were talking about associates. But another thing that I have to always bring up is my mom was a single mom, four kids, because you were talking about ⁓ our parents earlier. And so single mom, four kids. She was also a dental assistant. So I think I grew up around dentistry. I grew up with a mom that wasn't making a lot of money for what she did. So I appreciate so much our team and my assistants.
I don't leave a room without thanking them for what they did in front of the patient. So that's probably the most important thing I've taught ⁓ our associate is to always be thankful for the people that are helping you do what you do. So I think living every day and coming into work with that mentality is super helpful. So I wanna keep that.
Kiera Dent (19:08)
that and I'm also gonna say Jeff you had no hope when you met Andrew there was no hope for you to get out of dentistry like mom, family, his life, if you were destined for dentistry when you and Andrew met so I love that I'm like wow now hearing your mom I was like ⁓ he he saw you from a mile away not only did he like fall in love with you but he's like ⁓ this his life to be changed forever
Jeff & Andrew (19:12)
Yeah, I know. Yeah.
I should have saw that coming. Yeah, he was. He's going right in.
Yeah. Yeah. I was like, need that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So yeah, I think my, my next goal will be to help us find a new associate. So our daughter parks and I both are super busy now or both feeling like, gosh, it would be really nice to be able to take some time off and not feel like we're putting the other one in our tough pickle. You know? So we also have a lot of great things to teach our next associate and, ⁓
I think what used to scare our team is to think about that growth. And now our team feels empowered to be like, we're not so sure about that person. They speak up and they're our guardians. So I think what's really cool is like, I've kind of let some of this go and now I get to really focus on my dentistry and learning more and what can I improve? What do we wanna bring into the office to offer more patients or how can we be better every day? So, yeah.
Kiera Dent (20:18)
Amazing. I
love that. Okay, that's what it's on for Andrew. Jeff, what about for you? What's next for Jeff's world?
Jeff & Andrew (20:24)
a vacation in two weeks. We got one planned. got do. We do. Yes. It's our first two week vacation ever in my life. I'm really nervous. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (20:26)
Yeah, where you wanna go?
Like be so excited. You should listen to all the other podcasts. I'm always like, owners, we need leave because if you don't leave, can't find the gaps in your practice. So like, this is the best thing to do. So don't freak out, Andrew. Just realize you're doing your business the best service. You're leaving. You can see the gaps. You can fix them when you come home. Yeah. That's how I justify it. like, no, the business needs me to leave, obviously.
Jeff & Andrew (20:39)
Yeah. I know.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
I like it. Yes, that's great. Yeah. Yeah.
And I will say, I feel excited now because I can see people knowing that we're leaving. Everybody's making sure everybody they're looking ahead at the schedule. They're making sure I get people in that I want to see Megan. Sure, everything's going to be OK. And it's just awesome. I used to stress so much about taking a day off and then now to know like we're about to take two weeks off. It's really amazing.
Kiera Dent (21:19)
Amazing. Okay. Well, I think that's good. Just like we need this. I need this. You need to shut it off and we're not talking about history.
Jeff & Andrew (21:25)
I wouldn't do it without.
I wouldn't have done it without him. That's another big thing, right? So he's pushed me. I'm like, Jeff, are we okay to do this? Like, that's another thing I probably would not have said to I know I need to write. So you kind of need those people to help kind of make you see the other side and say, okay, we're okay. And we do need it. And everyone has told me that like, I know you're thinking you don't need it or that you are going to stress out, but you're going to come back so invigorated and so excited.
Kiera Dent (21:49)
always tell everybody the best things I do for my business are when I do what I call white noise time. And I check out what I do, Andrew and Jeff, you guys might take my tip. I literally don't turn my phone on at all. So like no one can connect me. If I go out of the country, I do not connect to wifi. It's a smidge creepy for my family. So like Jason usually turns it on. And then I get angry for about two days. So I'm like detoxing of having like everything. And I'm like mad at Jason. I feel like I'm putting time out. I feel so angry that I've just got to sit here and read a stupid book.
Jeff & Andrew (22:06)
Hahaha! ⁓
Yeah.
You
Kiera Dent (22:20)
once the adrenaline's
gone, I'm like, ⁓ and then my best ideas actually show up. So, better or for worse, get ready, Jeff. He'll probably come home with like million ideas, but, and you should probably have alarms that like you're only allowed to talk down the street for like one hour a day. Like that's it, because of course it'll like come up, but it's also shocking when I did that last summer, Jason and I, took a whole month off and I'm like,
Jeff & Andrew (22:25)
Weird. Yeah, that's awesome.
Probably.
Kiera Dent (22:44)
I don't actually know what to talk to you about if we don't talk dentistry. So I had to like, refine myself, refine our relationship of like, what do we do beyond dentistry? This is helpful. So anyway, okay, going on a week trip, where are going?
Jeff & Andrew (22:47)
I
We're going to Sweden for two weeks. Yeah, we're excited.
Kiera Dent (22:58)
I'm so ⁓
Jeff & Andrew (23:04)
I that. I'll be too. For like a minute.
Be prepared.
Yeah.
So I think we there's a there's something we want to do internally that we've been kind of mulling over and kind of taking a couple steps to we brought somebody on that I think we can actually elevate and help create this. So it's a it's a younger team member and he's got really good skills ⁓ with the lane that we want.
him to go down. So we kind of want to empower him to build this, ⁓ not for us, but with us, ⁓ and kind of create this position for himself. And kind of, it would be job sustainability, know, and have him, elevate him to build a team under him as well. ⁓ At the same time, you know, we want to
Kiera Dent (23:57)
Yeah.
Totally.
Jeff & Andrew (24:14)
We need to fill the rest of our building. We've, ⁓ we're working with some nonprofits. brought one in, we have two more suites to go. And, ⁓ so I want to continue that and make sure, ⁓ one thing that we're not like putting for lease signs out there. want to make sure that, you know, serves our vision and serves the community, the people that come in. and we were also, you know, we have our own building to create something. So I don't know, there's a lot.
Kiera Dent (24:45)
amazing. I do too. I need to... I was gonna say this is where you need the vacation Andrew and Jeff so you like shut it down all the great but I my best idea the podcast literally came when I was hiking Half Dome Yosemite like I'm not even talking about work and I was like this is a great idea I should do that so here we are like five years later but
Jeff & Andrew (24:45)
I see a lot in the future. All good things. Lots of dreamings needed.
Yeah. That's it.
Yeah, yeah They're kind of like just
waiting and I think you're right I think this little white noise period could just be like, there they all are. I totally agree
Kiera Dent (25:14)
It really
happens. It's weird. And I feel like as owners, we are in such a grind, like we don't know how to shut it off. But when we do, I'm like, that's when the best ideas show up. Like best ideas hit us in like when we wake up in the morning or when we're in the shower or when we're on a run or when we're on a hike or, I'm like, okay, so clearly I need to schedule more of that in consistently. So that way my best ideas can show up and we can keep evolving. But guys, you should be so proud of yourself. Like go enjoy that vacation. I'm so excited for you to go to Sweden.
the chocolate, please. mean, you hear it. But, ⁓ but no, just as as someone who's watched you evolve, I hope you guys just take in like, the kudos. I hope everybody listening, you're hearing like how they went through this, how they built their vision. And the thing I think I really glean from today's podcast are one, you two really lean on each other as a very safe duo of you two trust each other. You're in your lanes, you allow each other to be experts, you allow the like, nerdiness of either side to come out and you love that about the other person.
Also like really being true to yourselves, to your vision and building an entire team around you. I think so many people are scared to be themselves. And Jeff, thank you for sharing like agreed being gay, being different, having a different maybe, especially with the town you're in. I think that that was probably a big step and leap for you, but to stay true to who you are and you'll find that you will attract your tribe. You'll attract in the people that want to be a part of it ⁓ and not being afraid to share that. So I'm just so proud of you guys.
I am so grateful you came on. It was so fun to highlight you, to share about you. Are there any last things you guys wanna leave as we wrap up today? I'll start with Jeff first. Last thoughts, anything you wanna add to today?
Jeff & Andrew (26:48)
Yeah, I just want to make sure that ⁓ you, Dental A team and Tiffany are really recognize, like understand your value because at every step of the way, you guys were always there for us. I could pick up the phone, Tiffany will pick it, she'll answer. It could be about plumbing. It could be about team. It could be about operations. You guys are always there for us consistently every step of the way. If you don't have an answer.
You know, we brainstorm and we are like, okay, or you'll find it. You know, it's, I couldn't thank you guys enough. You did. I tell you every time, but it's true. You guys changed my life, both of our lives, honestly, ⁓ for the better. And we wouldn't be here today if we didn't have your encouragement, your support, and your backing behind us this whole time. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you, Kiara. Thank you, Tiffany. Thank you, Den-L-A team.
Yes, thank you, Tiffany. Thank you. Thank you both for everything. Tell a team we were like so it like a pretty shit for you guys here. Like I remember we were talking about earlier meeting senior on the plane, giving you the brownie brittle. And I think I go back to like our first couple meetings and I I think you guys were like the first. No, you were the first that helped us not just see like when we were doing like team meetings about dentistry. It also was how does this relate to your personal?
Kiera Dent (27:46)
Thank you.
Jeff & Andrew (28:15)
And I think that's where the that could have been the switch you were asking about earlier. Sorry, it took me this long to realize that's what I love. That was the switch because it went from like, what can I teach you about dentistry to like, how can we all just live better lives? How can we come to work and be happy? How can you go home and use what you're learning here with your your house? And I think every time Tiffany comes in, we talk sometimes more about personal things going on at home and how this relates to work. And it's really just made that our culture. And I think
whether it's me and my weight loss, that's something too. lost 90 pounds three years or four years ago now. that's, thank you. And that's kind of led to like we did a whole weight loss program with our whole staff. Like we learned nutrition and like we made things not about just dentistry, but like how we all can just live better lives. And I think that's really what's kind of just blown us up. So thank you so much for all of that.
Kiera Dent (28:48)
look amazing, Andrew, like, amazing.
proud mama over here and just huge like thank you because to hear clients, to hear people that we didn't know prior to dentistry, like dentistry is our platform, life is our passion and to hear that you're thriving, that you are these amazing humans that are fulfilled, that is what we want. We don't want just dentistry. Like I said dentistry is our platform, life is our passion and so
And like, Andrew, I saw you I was like, my gosh, you look like so great. And Jeff, you just look vibrant and you've gone through so many pieces and yet you're still smiling. You're still happy. You still, like you said, it's life. This is what it is. And we just get lucky enough to find each other through dentistry. So thank you for being a part of our family. Tiff's been incredible. And I'm just excited for like the next level and to continue to watch you guys flourish. Like I said, my biggest passion is making the best people have the best lives and truly win. So thanks for being on the podcast. I appreciate it.
Jeff & Andrew (29:56)
Thank you.
Kiera Dent (29:57)
you. ⁓
Jeff & Andrew (29:58)
Thank you for having us.
Kiera Dent (30:00)
of course. And for all of you listening, I hope you were inspired today by Jeff and Andrew. They're people that have inspired me and I hope you saw yourself through the writing in the fabric of their story to see the things that are possible from Jeff not feeling like he even knew how to be into dentistry to running this huge practice and inspiring people to Andrew growing and evolving and bringing on things that he never thought were possible.
I hope all of you see the potential within yourselves and ⁓ I'd love to be a part of your story and your journey. So reach out, [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on The Dental Team A Podcast.
Jeff & Andrew (30:32)
Thank you.
-
Kiera talks with Chief Operations Manager Jeff and Dr. Andrew Sugg of Green Park Dentistry about identifying your dreams as dental leaders, and finding the path to get there.
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Transcript:
Kiera Dent (00:00)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is such a special magical day on the podcast. I have two of my absolute favorite human beings. We have known each other for so many years. They are incredible, incredible dentists, practice owners, managers, like you name it. These two men are some of the most brilliant people I've watched in dentistry and I've watched them grow from beginning, very basics.
to this masterpiece of their life, of their community, of this practice that I truly think is such an example in this world. So Jeff and Andrew, welcome to the show. How are you today?
Jeff & Andrew (00:33)
Great, thank you for having us. Doing well, thank you for having us.
Kiera Dent (00:37)
You're so welcome. And I know it'll get a little weird, because when there's three of us here, it's always like, who's supposed to talk? So I'll try really hard to just call someone out. But honestly, guys, how does it feel to be, and I'll ask Jeff first. So again, I'll just riff through this. How does it feel from when we first met to where you are today? How does it feel? What would you even say? What's a word? Or what's the expression of where you started to where you are today? How was that experience for you, Jeff?
Jeff & Andrew (00:42)
Yeah.
⁓ if I had to sum it up in a word, looking back at myself in this experience, I think my younger self would look at today and be astonished that one, this is the career path I'm in that I didn't set out to. ⁓ you know, two, I started in this dental industry with zero experience other than knowing Andrew and listening to what he talks about when he comes home, to today.
that we have gone from a team of seven in this tiny building with five ops we started with to now a team of 20, 17 ops in a 16,000 square foot building. I literally cannot, I have to pinch myself being like, we did this, take a minute, let's reflect. I'm still kind of coming down from all of the renovation and the moving and calibration. ⁓
So every now and then I have to remind myself like, wait, this is our place, we did this. So take a minute and reflect. And I'm still kind of battling with that because I'm used to going full force. So I'm astonished.
Kiera Dent (02:16)
It's amazing.
And Jeff, I'm so glad you said that. we've known each other. Jeff and Andrew have been clients of ours for years. This is like a client spotlight where we bring on people to just, I think, share their journey, share their experience. And for me to have like a proud mama moment of just being so freaking proud of where you are. And I agree, I'm astonished. It's not something when I met you too that I thought, would it be capable? But I do think it's all for all of us, like a pinch me moment. And for me,
What I love is seeing my favorite humans just flourish. And I feel like you guys give back to your team, you give back to your community. You're the good guys that I always want to win. And so I'm your biggest raving fan over here. Yes, have the life, have the experiences, do the things because you're just amazing humans that are contributing so much to this world. So I love that. Andrew, want to hear, and also Jeff, always you should just love Andrew so much and the fact that he brought you into dentistry. Welcome to the best profession ever. So kudos on that, Andrew.
Jeff & Andrew (03:07)
⁓ huh. Yes.
Thank you.
Kiera Dent (03:12)
What about for you? How's this journey been from where you started? You and Jeff, think it's like adorable. Jeff literally had no clue. I remember Jeff, you're like, I don't even know what these things.
Jeff & Andrew (03:20)
That's exactly what I was going to say. Like Andrew brought me and I was like, Hi, Kiera, I'm Jeff. And I don't know what I'm doing and I think I need your help. So I do have to throw in a kudos, a super thank you for guiding me and helping me get to this place. So yeah, you guys really helped kind of us.
Kiera Dent (03:32)
my gosh, I
can't take the huge credit. Tiffany has been like the mass superstar for you guys. I've been able to be the proud mom on the side that's just freaking rooting for you all day long. But yes, I do remember definitely like, hi, your adorable glasses. Like you guys were just like dressed in white I think the night I met you and hi guys, super nice to meet you. So, Andrew, didn't mean to cut you off, go ahead.
Jeff & Andrew (03:47)
No, it's okay.
I think that's it though, is you guys have really helped bridge that like my clinical side and love of dentistry and what I've always really enjoyed and still geek out over all the time. And you helped pull Jeff in and help him understand how he can kind of make this what he wanted to be. And I think that was something that kind of stuck with us ever since we first met y'all was that was on that weekend that we heard was
Like if you're not happy in your office, there's one person to blame and it's you, right? So it's like, you have the power, you have the energy, the time to put into that and kind of make it what you want. And I guess that's where like, my word would be excited. Cause I do feel like the more that we lean in and kind of just trust our gut and do the things that we kind of really want to do, it becomes more fun. We kind of are instilling in our team what you've instilled in us to kind of take that leadership and
work towards their goals and find their secret secrets that kind of stand out and really make them shine. And I think it's just, it's been really fulfilling and really exciting for us.
Kiera Dent (04:57)
That's amazing. And I think for both of you, I remember, I feel like there was a pivotal moment. I don't know what year it was, but I feel like there was a moment where you both just hunkered down of what do want our life to look like? What do we want our practice to be? What do we this to look like? And I feel like that was your, I call them lightning bolt moments. And I feel like it was just like, from there, I feel like that's where momentum just skyrocketed for you. And I don't know if you guys remember that from persons on the outside looking in.
That's something that I really watched, but I'm just curious, like, did you feel that way? I'll start with Andrew first on this one. Did you feel that way? And if you did, like, okay, give me the thumbs up or like, yes, did you feel that way? That's question one. Let me be a better host here. Andrew, did you feel that that was something that changed for you guys in your practice?
Jeff & Andrew (05:37)
Yes, no, I definitely did. it is hard though for me to put pinpoint. I think I had to lean into trusting having Jeff here and having you guys help him. It just allowed me to really focus and be that dreamer that I am. I'm definitely the dreamer. He's the implementer. So I think you helped us to find roles and understand kind of where we really can help each other, you know, kind of reach those goals together. So.
Yeah, I don't know the day or time, but I definitely felt like it was soon after meeting you guys and we just really felt like, okay, we can do this. it just, yeah, it's just magical. ⁓
Kiera Dent (06:14)
It's truly magical. Thank you. Jeff, what about for you?
Jeff & Andrew (06:18)
Yeah, ⁓ I remember several moments and I think a lot of ⁓ it was like a light bulb. I remember it was, you know, the career change and all that. It was hard for me, you know, going from the scientific, you know, yeah, marine geology, marine geophysics, so like offshore to now dealing with people.
Kiera Dent (06:22)
you
Is it geology? Am I like making that up?
Jeff & Andrew (06:43)
you patients, the public, it was crazy. I don't know what world I was in. But then I realized, you know, I was coming into the office. I am not enjoying coming into the office. I'm not enjoying this. And I started to see, you know, you know, at the time we called it staff or employees. And it was like that. Why are we doing what we're doing? Right. So you guys helped me realize that I'm the catalyst to change. We are. ⁓ And
Kiera Dent (06:43)
Yeah.
It's real!
Jeff & Andrew (07:11)
We had past experience of being treated poorly or maybe unfairly or just feeling unfulfilled. And I started to realize we're in this industry that I'm not enjoying going to work, so nobody else is enjoying going to work. Who can change it? That's me. And then I started to notice that it felt like people in their roles and their careers within the office felt unfulfilled or underappreciated. And it's like a dental assistant isn't just a dental assistant.
do the work that the dentist to allow the dentist to do his job. So without that, it's essential. So why don't we treat them like essential? So there was that moment that I walked into that door and I had you and Tiffany in my ear like, come in with a different energy, present differently. And I did, and I remember that moment. And I remember seeing people be like, whoa, this is a little different. Like, this could be a fun day. And I'm like, this is going to be a fun.
career. And then that started, okay, how can I make people's roles more fulfilling? How can we create growth opportunity? How can we show them that there's opportunity in our practice and they have the power to grasp that, to have a fulfilling life? We go to work every day for eight hours or longer, you know, so if they're not fulfilled there, how are we serving the people that are serving us?
Kiera Dent (08:38)
That's incredible. And I think Jeff, this just highlights a lot of your leadership and like the growth I've seen in you. I remember Cranky Jeff, who did not enjoy going to the wards. Like, what is it? Yeah.
Jeff & Andrew (08:45)
They call him Gilbert, that's my middle name. So that's
the ⁓ alias for Cranky Jeff.
Kiera Dent (08:53)
like it. Yeah, I do remember those days and you were not happy in this and I don't think Andrew was super happy. Andrew, you've always been like one of the most passionate dentists I've ever met, which is so fun to see you like light up when you talk about dentistry and do all the pieces. Jeff, on the other hand, I think you kind of like drug him into this like, Hey, I need you in here. Gilbert, it sounds like was the one that and then Jeff came to the scene realizing like the the space for you and Jeff, that's something I really love to highlight is I think so many leaders don't realize it's within them.
Jeff & Andrew (09:01)
you
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (09:21)
because it doesn't look the way that they thought it was going to be. I just I'm excited to get into that. And I'm just curious. So you briefly mentioned you guys had this small practice in my mind. It's like purple or pink walls. Is that really true? Like inside?
Jeff & Andrew (09:33)
It started
that way. It was like very dark green, brown, had purple. Yes, there was some magenta. Yeah. Yes. Very dark brown. Popcorn ceiling too. ⁓
Kiera Dent (09:39)
knew it. It was like a dollhouse in my mind. Like it was like this like little like very short like ceilings. ⁓
Yes, not that great.
I remember being like, Tiff, this is where they work. Like, okay, looks like this. Like, I mean, how could you not have fun, Jeff? There's like colors of every rainbow on all the walls for you. Like, okay. ⁓ but you guys went from this small building to now this massive practice. You've got all these team members. but something I, I'm probably going to like butcher your vision just a little bit. but I remember hearing it when you said it and it stuck with me again. I think I'll get like the gist of it, but I remember you saying like, we are going to be like,
Jeff & Andrew (09:51)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Kiera Dent (10:17)
the dentist that the community chooses. Something like that. don't know how, I feel like I'm close to it, but I really loved that it was like, okay, we're gonna impact our community really largely. We want to be the place that our community chooses. And you did this whole expansion and I'm just curious, like, okay, what worked well? What didn't work well? What were like, let's just kind of go on like a fun road. I'm not gonna pick who like you guys can tag team over there, but I'm just curious of.
You went from Gilbert Jeff, who's angry to this like weird house that you're in to now this like amazing business building community. Like the impact you guys have in your community is amazing. You have all these team members. Like what were the highlights? were the like walk me through? I need to know what did you do right? What did you wish you would have done? What advice do you have for other people looking to go down this journey? That's something I think you've done so well.
but I think like it didn't come without a lot of learning and a lot of growth that I'd love you guys to just highlight. But also you did some things really freaking well too, so highlight that too. So ⁓ it's over to both of you, whomever wants to pick up the ball and run with it, it's yours. And tag team, because I'm sure both of you have very different perspectives on how that took place.
Jeff & Andrew (11:23)
Well,
I can start because I think one thing for me that's been really amazing is like, really, you guys helped be our cheerleaders to say like, hey, if you stick with these things, you stick with these systems, it's really allowed us to kind of be ourselves. And in a way, that's what feels unreal. Like it feels really magical that like we get to be ourselves every day. We get to stick to like what our core values are. And it feels lucky that people appreciate that. And that shouldn't be like.
rare in the world today, but it really does feel that way. So I feel really lucky to come to work. I feel lucky. get to be honest and authentic with the people around me. And I think ⁓ that's been like the biggest, coolest thing to me, like through all of this is I think having you all as cheerleaders, I was really like the biggest thing because you move into this building and increase in our team size is kind of like, that happening? And then I'm like, I'm going to go do the dentistry. You, you guys figure it out and you're like, yeah, we're to hire some people.
Kiera Dent (12:17)
Andrew's always pushing it off like, Jeff, I'm gonna
go do this, like good luck on all the fires. No wonder you a good one. I'll put it.
Jeff & Andrew (12:19)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, can you stop being
the dreamer for like a year? need a break. Stop dreaming. Come down for second. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. would say so, you know, kind of piggybacking off what we touched on earlier with elevating the team and that sort of thing. So when we did that, was kind of like positivity just keeps.
Kiera Dent (12:26)
He just can't stop. That's amazing.
Jeff & Andrew (12:46)
building, right? It's contagious. People want to be around it. People like it. They want to feel that way. So we did some work internally with the team and then we realized the team likes it. You know, this is real, you know? So then that immediately transfers to the patients and then to the community. So there's kind of like the little trickle effect there. So when patients start to come in and they're like, this is kind of fun. Everybody enjoys their job. I enjoy coming here. ⁓
or when I walk in, I feel happy, you know? It's like, that's the vibe we wanted and that Andrew and Dr. Parks, their dental work is exceptional. So pair it with that. And then the word gets out and it just continues to snowball. So as that's happening, we're like, maybe we should expand. Okay, so I think we can take on somebody else. Then we were, the plans kind of evolved and there was the first plan was to ⁓ double the size of the building that we were in.
Um, but then COVID hit. pre COVID we're like, we're going to do this. Let's plan it. We've got enough land to double the building. Let's get all this done. We actually used our waiting room as an extra spare room because we are kind of outgrowing our space. So business was getting bigger, but the project was not moving along at all. So we cut into the waiting room and we made six rooms and we're like, can we sustain this? Yes. We sustained it immediately. So, um,
Kiera Dent (14:04)
Yeah.
Clever.
Jeff & Andrew (14:14)
After COVID hit, said, shoot, what are we going to do? Like, we can't afford this expansion anymore. And then what does the timeline look like that just went out the window? we're like, let's pivot. If we were going to spend X amount of dollars here for this, it ended up being ⁓ about 2000 workable square feet that we would add to the practice. ⁓ So we started looking at, there buildings for sale around? And we kind of had a vision a long time ago.
Kiera Dent (14:37)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff & Andrew (14:45)
even before considering moving the practice itself, like there's some cool buildings in our community that could look beautiful. ⁓ So maybe we look into some of those ugly ones and that's what we end up doing. So we identified a building that was way bigger than what we needed. ⁓ However, the thing that we identified was the plumbing was around the exterior between the levels. So we thought that's super expensive.
Kiera Dent (14:58)
Hahaha
art.
Jeff & Andrew (15:13)
you know, ground up. So let's utilize some of this plumbing. We interviewed ⁓ several contractors. We chose one to do the original project expanding that building, but we chose another for this project because of our interview. So it took ⁓ a lot of back and forth to figure out who's going to work best with us and who's really going to build in some cost savings. Like with the building that we did buy,
We made sure that the contractor that we hired was going to retain as much material as they could. We had solid doors. like, save the doors. We'll paint them or reuse them. I don't want to buy a ton of new doors. we were able, the relationship started well. It ended well also, but that was the building blocks. Like, are you going to work with me or are you going to be like, let's tear it down and start fresh to make a buck? ⁓
Kiera Dent (15:53)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff & Andrew (16:07)
So that was a huge win. So we made a really good relationship with the contractor there. And then ⁓ he guided us through. And I think, you know, in the planning stage, architecture and engineering took a lot. And those were, ⁓ those were really the holdup, pretty much the engineer. So I would say stress on the engineering part first, because it's hard to make changes later, just because they don't typically work as fast, I guess.
Kiera Dent (16:33)
for sure.
That's true. ⁓
Jeff & Andrew (16:36)
takes longer, or in our case it was.
But ⁓ I mean, it might seem like you're being redundant about layout and switches and these sort of things. ⁓ It's not. Visit the practice as many times as you can while it's in construction. Talk to everybody on a day-to-day basis. I popped in here so many times and was like, I don't like where that light is, or people don't always listen. it...
stinks to be like, hey, I prepared all this stuff and this is what I want done. This is where I want everything and nobody looks at it. So it's like, you got to be there in person and kind of guide them. ⁓
Yeah, well, I also kind of I think you kind of point out like to make is ⁓ we really stuck to like our our goals and just ambition and just knowing that like, hey, we're just doing good things. And we're just trying to do good for the community. And like, how can we expand? And it was scary at times expansion. It was always very scary till we got here. Like we say, jokingly, when we were at the old building and we come over here, even bringing the staff, you could tell everybody's like, what the heck, this place is really big. We're going to lose each other like
Kiera Dent (17:36)
As always.
Jeff & Andrew (17:46)
We're not going to hear in our old office, I could hear our front desk and I could actually like tell them like, actually don't do that. You know, like I can correct people from like the room, you know, down the hallway and here it is a lot more space, but it's like, once we got here, we're like, how the heck did we all fit there? And then you just quickly fill the space and it's really, it's exciting. Cause yeah, I don't know. ⁓ you just gotta really like trust in, ⁓ your, process and your values and what you're working towards. And I do feel like it has been.
Kiera Dent (17:46)
Hmm?
Jeff & Andrew (18:15)
building up, like we're going to celebrate our 10th year in practice next year. And I think that's what feels unreal. Oh my God, it's this year. next year. Yeah. Next year. Sorry. Oh, year. Yeah. Oh, see? Don't even know. We need a break. But it just flies by, right? Like it's just... Yeah, we celebrate every year. For sure. And I think that is like, it is just kind of in a way, you just kind of stick to like little goals, kind of just keep it moving those like, hey, how can we make this better? What can we do? Oh, we need space. How do we solve that problem?
Kiera Dent (18:26)
I don't know, it's just not dirty. Pop this celebration all the years. ⁓
Jeff & Andrew (18:43)
and necessity just helped kind of push us along. And yeah, I think if we would have done the building before COVID, we probably would still be in our old office and kind of wishing we had more space. But in a weird way, I'm really happy that things worked out the way they did. ⁓ yeah, we've ended up here. So it's been amazing. I'd say on a team perspective too, like the team was really scared to be honest, like moving over here. There were concerns. ⁓ But... ⁓
Kiera Dent (18:58)
always.
Jeff & Andrew (19:10)
You know, when we said it first, were like, we're do, we're, we're going to do this instead. And they were like, Oh, so I think keeping them regularly informed and kind of showing them the things that we're doing. like, we made them a part of the process so they could be excited about it. We took them to visit when milestones were done. We'd like, Hey, meet over there. We'll, we'll talk about it. Um, we kept them involved in the process. And I mean, we we weren't like financially open about all of the things, but it was nice to be able to like, listen, we've got to buy.
cabinets and cabinets cost this much money. You know what I mean? So ⁓ we could do it, but we have to do this. So we want to take care of it too. So it instilled value and it's still excitement. And then helping, you know, getting votes on like color choices or that sort of thing involved them. And then before the move, they were really nervous about what it was going to be like in a space as large bringing on new team members. So with the help from y'all Tiffany, we
Kiera Dent (19:42)
Yeah, yeah. huh.
Jeff & Andrew (20:08)
We were like, okay, everybody write down what the specific concerns are. And then we're going to talk about how we're going to combat that. ⁓ So we're going to prep you with like the solution before a problem even occurs. And that was, that was helpful. And then we did move in one weekend, long weekend ourselves with some movers. It was crazy. And everybody pitched in and everybody just had fun doing it. And it was Labor Day weekend, so we had an extra day. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (20:20)
So smart.
Amazing.
You're like, okay, we'll do it. I mean, Labor Day seems very fitting. It's labor, it's very intensive.
Jeff & Andrew (20:41)
I know, right?
Yeah. But we didn't require anybody. like, hey, we're doing this. Like nobody's required to, but if you want to, we would love it and we'll make it fun. And it was good. then like, what, less than a month after we got slammed at the hurricane in North Carolina, the mountain. So that was a hurdle. We had a generator that was took the longest to get in the last thing installed. One the expensive things we bought and they didn't hook it up. Because the gas inspection.
Kiera Dent (20:49)
and
Shoot. Uh-huh.
Thank
Jeff & Andrew (21:11)
So double check your inspections, make sure the gas inspection is ⁓ like.
Kiera Dent (21:14)
Yes.
Yeah, make sure
it's actually all prepped for in case of hurricane. But like, kudos to you guys. Like, I'm so proud of you and to hear, I love the two different perspectives. And I think something I hear is you are true to yourselves. want like, knowing that you want to be, like I said, I probably like butchered your vision just a little bit. Sorry on that. Like being the dentist that the community chooses and being the place that we can serve them. Well, you can only serve so many patients in six ops, which is like a makeshift six op. We were like five, realistically five and a half. So,
Jeff & Andrew (21:21)
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (21:48)
It's like, it's not like, if you build them, they will come. You guys already knew you had made this footprint. You knew what you wanted to do. I feel like you guys really hunkered in. You're like, we're going to be a part of this community. This is where we want to be. We want to change the lives of our employees. And I feel like in doing so, I think that almost gave you the, the steam. It's not like something I really love about both of you is on paper, you guys have really sexy numbers that I'm always like, love having them as clients. Like great job over there.
Jeff & Andrew (22:14)
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (22:15)
But as
human beings, mean, right? As a consultant, you're like, all right, like, look at my perfect, like, model students over here. Well, you guys are one of them. And I'm really proud of the numbers you put up, and I'm proud of the dentistry you do. But the piece is you grew because you wanted to for the impact. You didn't grow for the ego associated with it. And I think that that's so paramount because I think that that's why you guys still are happy. I think that's why you love coming to work.
going through that mayhem, if it's not your passion project, if it's not something you really want to do to serve and to give back and to have a bigger vision beyond the dollar signs, I think the dollar signs for you were secondary and the community and the impact was number one. And I think that's why, like, of course you got to pay for it. I mean, there's no doubt about that. I mean, maybe you guys are truly children of like the billionaires and who knows what world and I didn't know that about you. I'm pretty confident you're not yourself made of where you are over there, but like.
Jeff & Andrew (23:01)
No. ⁓
Kiera Dent (23:06)
Looking at that, feel like that's a huge probably differentiator of your success because it was built from passion, love, and a desire to give back while also being incredibly good. Like Andrew, you're an amazing clinician. And I think that having, like you said, Jeff, top-notch dentistry, Jeff, you're amazing at building this culture and this community of people that love and serve. I think combine that together, then want to give it back to your community. I feel like your success was inevitable and I'm just really proud of you. And Jeff, to hear about going to the inspections, I'm like, yeah, good for you because
How annoying is it when you walk in, like my husband and when we were building our house, they were gonna put our huge AC unit on the one side of our house that I could actually put like planter boxes and have stairs. And I was like, why don't we just move this over here? My husband tells me all the time, like, Kiera, that was one of your best moves. And I'm like, yes, because the function and the flow, like it would have been all of our neighbors. Where do you think their AC unit is? Right in the middle of the only usable space on the side of the house and they all put it. And I'm like, you're welcome. Or like little things like, like all of it.
Jeff & Andrew (23:56)
Yeah, everything. Yeah. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (24:03)
And so
just like making it a space that you wanna be in that you're proud of, I just really love and like hearing, I mean, you had an obstacle right after you started and I think some people could have gotten really down, but it's like, no, we built something bigger. It's not like a burn and churn. You guys wanna be there for the long haul. You want this to be a place you're proud of and I think that that just bleeds through. So I'm really proud of you and thanks for sharing that journey. And I wanna pivot to highlight both of you just a smidge because Andrew, I think you do something really special.
and you're able to mentor doctors really well. And I think that this is something that not all dentists are able to do. And Jeff, you're more than welcome to chime in on anything. Like at this point, guys, you should compliment one another. mean, hello, let me just make your life even better for you. But Andrew, can you walk us through, what do you feel are some of the things you do so superior? Like, I want you to brag a little bit. This is a moment where Kiera Dent is so freaking proud of you. Tiff is proud of you. Our company is proud of you. ⁓
because I think other people want to know how to do this. So I almost want to peel back the curtain just a little bit on what are some of the things you do really well in assembly? Like I said, Jeff, chime in too. Then we're going to reverse. We're going to talk about Jeff and Andrew, you can chime in on him. So like both of you can just schmooze each other tonight as well. You guys are going to have an amazing night post podcast. You're welcome. All right. But truly, Andrew, what are some of the things you feel set in part?
Jeff & Andrew (25:11)
Yeah, thank you.
Well,
that leads into a great, was going to say, like, I feel really lucky to have Jeff, obviously. And I know not everybody has a Jeff or can trust someone as much as I trust Jeff. But I think obviously it can be very hard on our marriage. So that's one side note. And I know like a lot of couples that that happens. But I think I have to always. Right? know. Two years ago, I was worried. And in gay years, that's like 40 years.
Kiera Dent (25:38)
I'm so proud of you. 10 years in and you still, I think, love each other, which is amazing. I think
everybody is. You're like, okay. But it's one of those things also though, I will say, like throwing it out to couples, when couples go through what you have gone through and you're able to like be through the thick and the thin of it, I will also give advice. Like when I watched people go through dental school, and Andrew, I'm sure you saw this, I was so angry at so many of our like friends that went through.
Jeff & Andrew (25:52)
you
Kiera Dent (26:05)
Like they went through the residencies, they got to the end and I'm like, you freaking made it. And that's when they get divorced. And I'm like, Oh, if you're to get divorced, get divorced during the hard times, but like you have made it. You've made it. And now it's like, it's a matter of like, we bonded together, we grew together. And I think like making sure that stays a priority in your marriage. You guys remember I was a marriage and finally therapist prior to this. Like that was my thing. I like, Oh, don't give up on what you like. You went through the freaking hardest years together. Now it's like, enjoy this amazing life we built together.
Jeff & Andrew (26:10)
Yeah.
Right, yeah. All right.
Yeah.
Yeah
Kiera Dent (26:35)
and don't lose sight of how grateful we are for one another. anyway, like off my
I hope all of you see the potential within yourselves and ⁓ I'd love to be a part of your story and your journey. So reach out, [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on The Dental Team A Podcast.
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Tiff and Dana give guidance on how to successfully manage a practice through an office manager, including long-term business vision, powerful leadership, productive systems, and a ton more.
Episode resources:
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Transcript:
The Dental A Team (00:01)
Hello Dental A Team listeners. Dana and I are back at it again today ⁓ with our podcasting spirits behind us and we are so excited to be here with you guys today. Gosh Dana, this is like the beginning of summer for us right now and no matter where you're at in the country, I think you've either been on summer for a few weeks or you're just barely getting there. feel like summer breaks are wild. Like Brody is in school two weeks past my niece. Like it's just been crazy but.
The most fun part about this for both of us is that, I don't know if you guys know this or not, we get asked this question a lot, where is your headquarters? Like, where are you guys based out of? And Dana and I, Britt and I, gosh, I think most of the consultants at this point are in Arizona. Our HQ is actually Reno, Nevada, but we work from home. So, fun part about podcasting during the summer is that each of us have some sort of little or family member or someone
At the door honestly like I had to text in our you know got a family chat go and that's like hey guys FYI and Dana's like let me put a sign on the door so Dana welcome I know I know being a mom is something that lights both of us up and I think one of the best I don't know most I don't know it was like fun parts of our relationship is being able to also laugh about what it's like to be a mom in
Arizona in the sports and in the summer and I love that about the two of us and Dana tell me what has what's the start of summer looking like for you guys over there you've got your I have it easy I will never never discredit the amount of moming that you do over there so tell me how is mom life today Dana
Dana (01:47)
it's good. You know, I mean,
it's wild, right? Like, there's a beauty of being able to work from home in that, like, I can very quickly throw chicken nuggets out the door and everybody is fed, right? Yes. But they like all summer long, there are no go zones, depending on what I am doing during the day. So like, if I am on calls, the front room is off limits, because it's directly beside my office. And so I can hear everything that you do.
The Dental A Team (01:58)
You just turn them down the whole way, get it. Yep.
I love
that.
Dana (02:17)
So I'm constantly like chunking my windows of time as to like where they can be in the house and I've had to put signs up because my neighbor kids also want to come get my kids and I'm like well we just can't knock on the door right now.
The Dental A Team (02:31)
Yeah,
yeah, please just give us a moment. I love that. And honestly, though, it's kind of ⁓ like time blocking for practices, right? Because like, when can you do certain procedures? Like you don't want, you know, sedation in the front room with everybody walking by, you've got to have a very specific place for the sedation and a very specific, like no-go zone of do not pass this line once we've started. So it kind of kind of makes me think
Dana (02:34)
Yeah.
question.
The Dental A Team (02:59)
of how synchronistic life is in general. I say this a lot, with clients that tell us work-life balance, right? We just talked to a client about this together recently, and I'm like, goodness gracious, like we just need a life-life balance, because if we take the systems that work in whatever aspect of life it's coming to you, and if you've got systems that are working at work,
you can probably duplicate them at home and vice versa. If you have systems that are working at home, you can probably take that same thought and that same theory and apply it at work. And it works truly like tremendously because your brain's already wired to think that way. So when you can just stop trying to recreate the wheel and use what you know works, applying it in all areas of your life, things just are easy. I feel like that's how you create easy discipline.
and how you create easy habits. So taking that like time blocking and room blocking and like, guys, from these hours, this is what you're gonna be doing. It's very similar. Billing, you know, all those things. Billing coordinators need to be like, don't bother me between these hours. It's just like, you've got your kids on the other side. I tell doctors constantly or office managers, leadership teams that people are people. We learn how we learn. And if we look at how we teach our children, we can duplicate that.
Dana (03:59)
Yeah.
Thank you.
The Dental A Team (04:18)
in training systems as well. So Dana, I just spiraled my whole brain right there. I love it. Thank you. Thanks for being such an incredible mom. You are truly impressive. And for those of you who don't know, she's got a slew of children and animals and happenings at her home constantly. And the way that you manage all of that truly is impressive. I think you're an incredible person, Dana.
Dana (04:41)
Thank you, Tib. It is a whole lot of winging it. So I appreciate that.
The Dental A Team (04:44)
But winging
it, I mean, I think we all wing it when it comes to parenting. I don't think anybody actually knows the step-by-step on what we're doing. So we're all winging it and we're all doing the best that we can, but you also make time for you. You make time for work. You make time for making sure that you're prioritizing what makes you happy and fulfilled because I think that is then teaching your children to do the same and it's super cool to watch. So having an almost grown kid.
I live vicariously through you watching you parent your children and it's super fun from over here. So thanks. Thanks for continuing to have more for us. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. And I hope all of you are here for it too. know you guys, I know you guys get a kick out of my questions I give to Dana because Dana just intrigues me her life and really her choices intrigue me. She's always got something that I'm like, give me all the goods. What can I do now? Brody brought home a soda the other day or I guess the water.
Dana (05:11)
you
Keep enjoying the video, Jeff.
you
The Dental A Team (05:38)
that you had mentioned a couple weeks ago and I was like, oh my gosh, I know what that is because Dana told me. So you guys, she's here for the tips. If you want them, write in, ask them. Ask Dana, go on Instagram on Mondays now I think it is. Mondays or Fridays, it pops up all week for me. I find them, but she's on there too you guys. She's constantly just divvying out the tips. Find Dana, she's our tip master. And today I'm going to pick your brain some Dana. I want to talk about really effectively
Dana (05:41)
you
The Dental A Team (06:06)
running a practice through an office manager. And doctors, I don't want you to hear that and think, OK, I don't have to listen to this. Let me go get my manager. Nope, this is for all of you guys. This is for everyone. This is for dentists, owners, office managers, leadership, anyone aspiring to become an office manager, anyone aspiring to just give good tips to the team. Office management can come in varying sizes. And the label office manager, we found even just in hiring consultants, right?
hiring when we were in practice that office manager really doesn't have a good definition for it in the industry. Anything can be an office manager. Most of the time, Dana, maybe you could speak to this as well, I have found that the office manager position, like quote unquote there, usually narrows into billing or dealing with upset patients and really doesn't broaden outside of that. Have you found that as well, Dana? Yeah.
Dana (07:04)
Mm Yeah. Yep.
And I usually feel like anytime it is promoted within right, it's typically like, well, she's really good in those insurance. So yeah, yep, I agree with you. Sometimes, you know, yeah, there's some HR pieces added in there or like, you know, I, but I feel like it does encompass mostly keeping track of AR and the money, which is fine.
The Dental A Team (07:11)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that's one aspect of it, right? And being able to oversee everything. So there's different avatars for a billing representative, a billing person, and most other positions in the practice. That's gonna come with a different kind of avatar. So depending on the type of office manager that you want in your practice, that's gonna be making a decision there on what your avatar is going to look like. And for us, your office manager in your practice is really helping to run the practice. think Dental A Team considers an office manager
like a secondary owner almost, right? You're looking at it as this is my practice. This is something that I'm fully invested in growing and I love it the same as I would if it were my own business. So that kind of investment really comes from a certain personality type and a certain leadership type. So that style of office manager is really what we're speaking to today. And there's nothing wrong with any type of office manager, any style, any avatar, like you do whatever your business needs.
is what your avatar needs to look like. So today we're speaking towards that different kind of mindset of really growing the practice and being fully invested in it. The reason that we look at it that way is we really think that there's two different minds between a dentist and the office manager that needs to push the agenda of the practice. Our dentist is kind of our idea maker. They're the person who's just coming up with all of the plans. And I think we all
can name a few of these. have one on our team. Ms. Kierdent is fantastic at this. She has the brains and the ideas behind most of the things that we do. And they're just shouting things out, right? They're like, my gosh, we could do this. We could do that. We could do this. And the team is like, stop changing things. Well, when you leave the practice management up to the dentist who's there to create ideas, and there's no one there to filter ideas through,
and to project manage when things do make it past go and we're like, yes, we're gonna do this. When it's all on the doctor, you are gonna suffer those changes consistently because no one's there to say, hey, is this projecting us towards the goals we're working on or is this confusing us and keeping us from reaching those goals? So then we do have teams that are in constant chaos and constant change and they're like, Dana, I can't take another word from this doctor. It's like, well, that's.
We gotta get the doctor out of that position. So that's the type of office manager we're speaking to today is a type of office manager that can say, yes, that's a fantastic idea. Let's see where it will take us. Is this going to push us towards those goals? I have to just brag a little on a client that I've worked with for a while now. Near and dear to my heart, like just two of my favorite humans in the whole world. And honestly, their whole practice is full of some of my favorite humans, but.
not that they didn't start as my favorite humans, but they didn't start there, right? They didn't start where they are today, years later. They started in a very different position. And when they came to me, their goals were to grow production. were like, everybody's goal, right? I want to grow production, which actually means I want to grow collections, right? I want more income. We want more saved on the side. They wanted to reinvest in the building. They wanted to do a little bit of a build out, but they knew that they didn't have a lot of space, so they needed to work with what they had.
And the dentist who was there, he really, really wanted to be a dentist. He loves having a business, but entrepreneurship just is a path for his dentistry. So he truly wants to be a dentist, and he wanted to do more surgery. He wanted to do more involved dentistry. So I was like, fantastic. Office manager, let's talk. Now this specific office manager had never been in dentistry before, at all.
at all, very different career path. could tell you all about it on a whole, it would take a whole podcast because the career is just so cool. Very different career path, probably about as far from dentistry as you could possibly get. And he made the decision to support the doctor and said, I'm going to figure this out. And he was a great manager, right? He managed expectations, but really felt stressed out, second guessed his decision.
He's like, don't think this was right for me. I don't think I'm cut out for this. And I was like, well, let's test the waters. Let's see. And we went down a journey together that has changed, I think, the course of both of our lives, probably. It's just been so cool to take this journey with them. But taking an office manager, Dana's done this too. I think all of us at some point have taken an office manager who's never worked in dentistry before and helped to create an amazing office manager.
So all of you dentists who are like, well, they don't have experience. It's not always necessary if the other pieces are there and if the dentistry can be taught if there's space for it. So keep that in mind. I don't I'm not telling you go find someone with no experience. I'm not telling you you have to have experience. Like I'm telling you it's just got to fit for you. This specific manager and a couple others that I've worked with didn't have that experience. And what we worked on then was what it takes to be an office manager, which is actually leadership.
And Dana, I know you work on this a lot with a lot of practices, starting with the leadership and really becoming the person that a team can look up to, starting with the culture and creating what you want your practice to look like. Because without that, Dana's freaking systems queen. But Dana, how difficult is it to create systems for a practice that we can't imagine what we want it to look like?
as compared to being able to imagine what we want the business and the practice to look like and what the leadership should look like, then the system's followed. Which do you feel like in your experience, especially with an office manager who's never been trained in dentistry, which do you feel like is the path that you take the most frequently?
Dana (13:06)
Thank
⁓ hands down it's building the vision and figuring out what you want because anywhere in dentistry when it comes to the schedule when it comes to your leadership team when it comes to goals like you have to know what you're trying to achieve before you build the pieces to achieve it
The Dental A Team (13:41)
Yeah, exactly. And I think a lot of people start with the systems, right, Dana? And that's where it gets really confusing. And it's like, the systems are so tailored to an individual. Systems are so tailored to a specific practice, and that practice is goals. So when you start out just blanket systems, it could be anything. You could create anything, and it will or won't work. It's it's hard to tell. It's like throwing spaghetti at a wall and hoping that it sticks, that it's done.
you just, don't know. But when you have a vision and you can create something that supports that vision, which you want that to ultimately look like, you're able to custom tailor it. And that's what we were able to do with this practice and working side by side with the office manager in leadership, teaching him how to speak to people, how to have conversations hard or easy, how to invest in other people and really showing him or giving him the opportunity to see what it feels like.
when you put yourself aside and you put someone else almost ahead of you without it being ahead of you. Like that's hard to say out loud. Like him investing in his team and his team's success in the practice gave him such a high, I couldn't even stop, like his trajectory. He was just running because he felt so good about having this higher purpose. And his higher purpose truly turned out to be
investing in ⁓ leading and guiding his team members for them to be their best selves. So within that, we learned, ⁓ what he learned is really like hiring and firing the systems behind a five star patient experience, the handoffs, like what creates this relationship that I'm having with my team members, with my team members and my patients. So it started to spin once we got some really good leadership footholds in there, some really good communication skills and practicing.
⁓ weeding out the team members that didn't need to be there and replacing them with team members that should be there, narrowing down those avatars, narrowing all of this down. He was really able to see how the slightest movements that he made truly affected every piece of the practice. He would move one needle just slightly. I always think of implant torquing, right? Like two millimeters is a lot when it comes to an implant. And that two millimeter change in a system
or in a statement or a word that you use can create a massive difference. It's the success or the failure of an implant. And same goes for everything you do in life. said earlier, everything you do, you just duplicate it. So if you're making a two millimeter change on an implant, what's going to happen in that respect when it comes to words, to leadership, and to guidance? And he truly took all of that and invested in people. And he said, hey, I'm learning too. Help me learn. And he got his team on board. It's been.
Incredible to see their success and so between the leadership and then the systems which gosh guys we talk systems constantly Dana Dana we did NDTR I Mean you guys are basic our basic core systems of Dental A Team truly work and they are case in point leadership is an ideal leadership is kind of that like personal side of it, there's not a
Dana (16:43)
you
The Dental A Team (16:59)
black and white, follow these steps and now you're a great leader. It's a learning system. It's something that is in you, something you have to desire, something you have to want. But the core systems, the handoffs, the NDTR, the ICRP, the communicating between team members, ⁓ gosh, blocked scheduling. We implemented blocked scheduling. We implemented time management skills. We implemented avatars for every team member, avatars for our patients, marketing.
All of the core pieces of what Dental A Team has to offer, we've implemented with this practice and gained his leadership skills as well as an entire team full of leaders at this point. They have leaders of departments, but you guys, every single team member on their team is a leader because they are manning their ships and they're acting as if they're leaders for the good of the practice overall. And it's been incredible. So that first year we worked on core systems of NDTR.
blocked scheduling and just literally ICRP handoffs to your side. Leadership in conjunction with that. So getting rid of some team members that no longer fit the needs of the practice or just weren't on board with the trajectory, replaced some great new team members in there, got them trained up. And you guys within that first year, remember their goals were to increase production, start a build out, right? And get the doctor doing dentistry.
So we were able to remove the doctor from a lot of those pieces, a lot of the decisions that he didn't have to make, we took them away from him. He didn't have to make them anymore and he trusted doctors, he trusted the process, he trusted the office manager. So things that the office manager could decide that if, you know what, if the office manager decided incorrectly, could be fixed, right? Or it's like, it's not that big of a deal. We could have gone the other way, but it's not that big of a deal, okay? Strategically moving those decisions over to the office manager.
We started doing that so that the doctor was in the chair more. He increased his surgery so much, you guys. increased, they were able to with one doctor and two hygienists, they were able to increase their production by $800,000 that first year just by narrowing down the systems and the leadership, getting the right people in the right seats, getting the right systems in place, using them and really knowing where they were going. And that first year was incredible. Stack on top of that.
They've decreased the decisions from the doctor, increased the amount of productivity that he was able to do without, by the way, expanding his hours. He stayed within the same hours. And we also, the end of that first year, got them ready for that associate space because they wanted to see that expansion. So they started the conversations on what it looked like to expand the physical building, and then what is it going to look like to add another dentist. And we projected.
five years out and then worked backwards on one, three and five years of even down to like how many hygienists and how many assistants will we need to hire? What will your overhead cost be based on current employee numbers, et cetera, all of those pieces. And we were able to just spear this incredible trajectory of growth, not even just for their first year, but gosh, five years later now, Dana, you know, they've got this massive building. They have impacted the community.
so much. Like there are people that come up to them on the streets of their community and thank them for what they were able to do for a friend or a family member, not even for themselves. They have had literal strangers say, I know who you are and you changed my friend's life. Like that's crazy, Dana, crazy. And to think that it started from leadership skills, just from someone who is invested in that blows my mind, you know?
Dana (20:53)
Yeah, yeah. And I think that it's when you have an office manager that can make a mindset shift of leading versus managing, right?
And I know it's called an office manager, right? So we can kind of get ourselves stuck in that place, but it's like managing is the tasks, right? That's the tasks, the leadership, right? That's the people and the culture. And when you have those pieces running smoothly, then the task part becomes so much easier. And so I do feel like that is when you have a manager who is focused on the people, the culture and leading.
leading to the tasks versus like being the one that feels like they have to complete all the tasks themselves.
The Dental A Team (21:35)
Yeah, yeah,
that's a great point. I love that because that's massive, I think for everyone listening. you've got, gosh, like if there's KPIs on you, right? There's a measurable that you're responsible for. I think one of the biggest things that we do really well, is getting people to understand you don't have to do all of the pieces to create that result. You just have to make sure the result happens.
To your point, a lot of managers and lot of doctors who are managing hold it all to themselves in order to manage the results to get the right result. But then we end up not having space for whatever it is that we need to get done, right? And we get lost in that and it gets a little chaotic. I know I've done that. I did that as a manager in practice and my team suffered tremendously because I kept everything. So one, I was not empowering my team.
I was basically telling them that they couldn't do it, right? They didn't know how to do it. I could do it better. I was overworked, overburdened and burnt out. I was angry constantly. Like I woke up one day and I was like, this is not who I am. What have I done? What have I done and how can I change this? And it was that exact thing. It was the fact that when you become an office manager, sometimes it feels like you're supposed to do all of the things.
And we forget that we have an entire team of people who want to help us. And I think Dana doctors do that too. We've seen that as well. And coaching them out of that, think is sometimes part of our biggest jobs as consultants. The biggest contributor is coaching them out of holding all of the cards to themselves. Would you agree?
Dana (23:26)
Yeah, yep, absolutely.
The Dental A Team (23:28)
Yeah. Well, guys, I know that sometimes we can chat and you can say, gosh, I see myself in that. I hear that. I've done that. ⁓ Or I want to do that or something similar. So I hope that today you heard something that you can take for face value, something that you can utilize if it's systems that you need to go back to. You guys, there's a slew of podcasts all over the place. We have a million of them.
Just search NDTR if you don't know what that is. We're not explaining it today because we've done it a million times. So search it on our website, you guys, on our website, TheDentalATeam.com. can go to podcasts and then you can search within our podcast. So search some of those systems, you guys. Search Avatar. Search all of those pieces and figure out where are you at right now and how can you guide yourself towards those goals. Dana, thank you so much for doing this podcast with me. I love our time together as always and I know.
It's busy season for everybody right now, so thank you for carving out the time. I appreciate you. Listeners, thank you so much for being here. We find this so valuable. We love our time together. You give us this opportunity to be quote unquote face to face. Thank goodness for visual podcasts nowadays. And you give us this opportunity to give our speech to the world. So thank you. Please drop us a five star review below and let us know how valuable you felt this was. And as always, reach out
[email protected]. We're here to help. Thanks guys.
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Kiera gives tips to get your practice to become one where team members have accountability and ownership.
Set clear expectations and empower decision-making.
Create measurable goals.
Celebrate those who achieve.
Episode resources:
Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast
Schedule a Practice Assessment
Leave us a review
Transcript:
Kiera Dent (00:00.834)
Hello, Dental A Team Listeners, this is Kiera, and I hope you are just having an amazing day. I hope that things are going so well for you. I hope that things are just really, really, really incredible for you. I am so excited to be podcasting with you. I just truly, truly love and adore all of you. And I just think that the world of dentistry is such a great place for us to be a part of. And so today I just wanted to dive in. I wanted to give you guys some tips. I wanted to have some fun with you today.
And a topic that comes up often is how do we honestly help our team have ownership and accountability? It's something I hear a lot on sales calls. It's things that I hear from clients of, Kiera, like I just want my team to want to own this company. I want them to be accountable. I want them to feel like they own part of this. And so I wanted to just dig into this because the reality is there are a lot of ways to do this. And I just want to ask you, what would it be like if every team member in your practice actually took ownership? Like, what would it look like?
So today let's talk about how to make this happen. The reality is when we have accountability, there is better basic care. There's higher efficiency. There's like we get stronger team engagement. We're able to have better profitability in the business. We're able to have a happier, more cohesive team. All these things are super, super powerful for you. And the reality is that these are gonna be some effective strategies to help you create that culture of ownership in your practice. So.
You guys know us, we are the Dental A team. We love what we do. We love being here with you. We love serving you. We love giving you tips and tricks to make your practice even better and easier. So that's what we're about. That's what we're here for. And we are so excited to have you here. The reality is we have coached hundreds of practices, thousands of team members and helped them figure out exactly how to give this ownership feel, how to give accountability feels, how to be able to do these things within your practice. And I'm happy to share those things with you.
We do work in person and virtually with practices. We work across the nation and we do it in a fun and effective way. We're truly the experts in consulting and it's something that I just love and obsess of working with clients. Today, I just want to do this quick short actionable episode with you guys so that way you guys could go implement them. I like it to be tactical, practical, having a good time. What do you say? I'm here for it. I hope you're here for it. So step one to get this ownership and accountability is
Kiera Dent (02:16.386)
Number one, you wanna have clear expectations and empower decision making. So something that we did just recently was we changed up job descriptions and we were able to make it to where people knew exactly what their decision making power was. And I thought that that was something so just weird. I was like, do people really need to have this? And what I realized is they do, they need to know, they need to know what is it? Like, what can I make decisions on? And Britt and I talked a little bit about these six principles.
of how to make decisions of like, number one is look into it, report it and I'll decide what to do. Number two is look into it, report alternatives with pros and cons and your recommendation. Number three is look into it, let me know what you intend to do, but don't do it unless I say yes. Number four is look into it, let me know what you intend to do and do it unless I say no. And five is take action, let me know what you did. Six is take action, no further contact required. And what's interesting is when you start to give team members
kind of even these levels, which one do you want them to do? How can they make it? What are the areas that they have control over to make decisions and really empowering your team? That way it doesn't fall all back onto to leaders. This really can help them start to feel a sense of ownership because now they know, they know their department, they know the areas that they can actually influence and impact because otherwise it just becomes blaming, it becomes waiting, it becomes like, hey, we don't really know. And so what you've got to do is you've really got to make sure that there's clear defined roles.
I notice the front office is often what I call sloppy soup. We don't know who's doing what, everybody's doing everything and no one is actually accountable. Nobody actually can do things. They have no idea what they're doing. And so let's get out of that. Let's figure out what are the clear roles, what are the responsibilities, and what is the KPI or key performance indicator? What is the number that that role is going to actually impact and have an effect over? That's really what we wanna look into. We wanna dive into that. That's gonna help them out.
Then within that, we help them also know what is your decision making authority and also who do you report to within that. What this now does is we've just set the rules of the game. Your team now knows who do I talk to? What can I make decisions over? What my number is? What my job is? There's a lot less confusion. And I know this sounds like so cliche and like, but Kara, that's really it. A lot of times the ownership just comes from a lack of clarity. It comes from a lack of, don't even know what I need to do. This is where we're going to be able to get.
Kiera Dent (04:36.27)
people super empowered, super on top of it, super on their A game and helping them to really be able to make decisions. A lot of times people don't have ownership, not because they don't care, because they don't want to, but because they honest to goodness just don't know, like they feel they can't take the ownership, they feel they can't make the decisions. So I have really loved those six areas of how can I get feedback? So when Brit has a project or we're working on something new, so let's say we're rolling out a new project or we're hiring a new team member.
I try hard to tell Britt like, okay, this is a number four. So look into it, let me know what you intend to do and do it unless I say no. And when you're working with new team members and new leaders, sometimes they are gonna be at this like look into it, report and I'll figure out what to do. But that doesn't give a lot of ownership. That gives a lot of dictation and dictatorship rather than ownership. And so if you really, really want to have your practice flourish, help them know what the clear expectations are, what their role is, and then what their decision-making authority is.
There's a practice that I watched do this really, really, really successfully. Well, and what's interesting is the owner doctor picks, like they are, they're growing, they have multiple practices, multiple locations. And the owner doctor picks and says like, this is where we're going to actually have the practice be after that, the team members get to make all the rest of the decisions and it's leadership and then the office managers. And I think what's really incredible about that of the rules of the game have been laid out and then they're allowed to make those decisions. How much ownership do think this practice has? It's insane.
and they fall through and they're accountable because they feel that they actually can contribute. They feel like they can own this. And I think that's one of the biggest pieces to helping your teams have that. So that's number one. So call to action on that is like, your key responsibilities, figure out the KPIs, get clear job descriptions, and then help them know what the decision-making power is. How can they do this? And even start using those six steps. They really, really, really do help. It's been incredible to watch it work out. Step two is going to be making sure that they have measurable goals and accountability system.
What we're gonna do is we've got job descriptions, it's defined, they know what their number is, but now like what are the goals? What are we even reaching for? And then how do we follow up on this? So Tiff and I were talking about this with a client and it's interesting because when you actually have strong accountability with your practice, team members flourish. But if we don't have accountability, we don't follow up if something's off track. We don't look into it and ask them like, hey, I noticed this, what is your plan to get this back on track? This is going to really struggle because A, our numbers are going to go down.
Kiera Dent (07:02.678)
And B, our accountability is really lacking. And it's wild because when you start to track your KPIs and we track them consistently, and then when they're off track, we figure out why and we get them back on track. Like it's this whole tracking progress and having follow through to make sure things are actually moving forward. Otherwise we just sit there. Otherwise team members are just like, well, we track numbers for the sake of tracking numbers, but what does it really matter? Or we don't even track numbers. You're looking for trends and we want to teach our team to look at these numbers, their KPIs, the numbers that they have.
We want to teach them to use these numbers to be able to be levers. and I talk about this often of how numbers are levers in a business. And once you know what your numbers are, you can actually then know, I raise our production? Do we need to increase our diagnosis? Do we need to increase our case acceptance? Do we need to decrease our costs? Do we need to make more outbound calls? Like what really needs to happen? And we utilize all those numbers to figure out exactly what we're doing with it. So it really becomes something of like,
tracking on a scorecard and all of our practices track it. We have team members tracking this. And then we teach leaders how to follow through with accountability. And accountability is really just being consistent in a lot of ways and empowering them like, hey, this number's off track. What's your game plan? What's your plan for it? And this way we can constantly review it. So we recommend tracking your numbers weekly and then reviewing them in depth monthly is what we do with a lot of our offices to make sure that our numbers are moving forward, that things are tracking in a really good way. This is what it's going to be. And what's crazy is
People who start using KPI trackers, people who start tracking their numbers with their team is going to be an area where they actually like truly they start hitting numbers that they've never hit and they're like, wow, just as tracking numbers, instantly we started to become more profitable. Instantly we start to have more production on the schedule. Why? Because we're focused on it. And what you focus on is what you're going to achieve. So if we're focusing on these numbers, you better believe they're going to start to increase. We then start to change systems and implement other pieces based on what the numbers are telling us.
Otherwise, we're not gonna change things. So this is where it's super powerful and super fun because now you've got numbers. You've got all these different pieces that are going to impact it and influence it that are really truly going to help you and your team thrive. So really building up a simple tracking system to track those KPIs weekly and monthly is going to exponentially help you. And then number three, when I think about ownership, like...
Kiera Dent (09:23.022)
I don't know how to say this in a polite way, so I'll just say it. I also think for owners realizing that your team, you are still the owner and team members might not take as much ownership and that's not to say there's anything wrong. So I think also being like realistic with what's going on with it, but then also really truly highlighting those who take ownership. So within our company, we have our team read extreme ownership. We have pens, I'm not even joking. I have it right here, I saw it.
Literally, extreme ownership. have pens, there we go, sorry, extreme ownership. And we share it with our team and we remind them that we want them to have extreme ownership. I want them to take ownership of their position. I want our leaders to take ownership of their departments within the realms. Remember, we put the bumper lanes there of what are the realms and what can they do? And then I want them to truly take ownership of their practice. I want to constantly highlight team members that are taking ownership.
So we put that in our Friday five shout outs. put that in our core value shout outs. I put that in highlights in the team chat of celebrating and encouraging when people are taking ownership. And then if someone's not having that honest conversation with them of, this is what I'm expecting. What's going on? What are the hurdles? What are the stumbling blocks and how can we overcome those together? That way we can truly own our business. And I think when I realized like bottom line is a lot of team members may never care about the business as much as I do. And that's okay.
I really hope you heard that. That's okay. But there will also be a lot of team members who do care about the business like you do. They care about it maybe even more than you do and that's really beautiful. And so hold on to those ones who are truly incredible and they own all their positions and then also be okay when people aren't necessarily that way. They don't necessarily care about it as much as you do. That's also okay. But we wanna create a culture of ownership. We wanna create a culture of accountability and follow through. We wanna create a culture.
where we're following through on numbers and KPIs. And that's something that we're super, super, super paramount about doing. This is going to help you really have it. And it's wild, because when I watch offices highlight people and shout people out and I watch it within our team and I watch it within other teams, people start to follow through on that. We had an ownership award all last year and it was really fun to see who was winning ownership and who was the person who was taking this on and who was getting those MVP awards. And what's wild is you will see an increase for Rao.
Kiera Dent (11:46.446)
you'll see an increase in culture and you'll see an increase in ownership being taken in your practice. So whatever you need to do to create a culture and recognition of that, I would recommend highly implementing that. So this was a quick down and dirty episode with you of these quick actionable items for you of number one, creating clear expectations and job descriptions, making sure that we really are super crystal clear and empower that decision-making ability. Then after that, we wanna make sure we've got tracking our KPIs with accountability and follow through.
So we don't just track for tracking, we track with actual follow through updates, making sure we're getting the results that we're looking for. And lastly, finding a way for us to celebrate those who are taking great ownership within our practice and our company, really truly empowering them, giving them the praise, giving them the recognition and teaching our team that this is the culture that we want. Giving them, like I said, the reading opportunities, different opportunities, letting them know this is the culture that we want to have.
We want extreme ownership. We want to have our team taking ownership. I want you to feel like this is your practice because it is. So if this is your practice, what do you want to do? How do we want to behave? What are the core values we want to be living by and really empowering your leadership team to influence and push that forward for you. The reality is this is going to be a way to help you increase ownership and accountability within your practice. And it seems so simple, but just because it's simple and easy does not mean that it's easy to execute on.
These things take office as time, it takes change, takes change to shift a culture, it takes change to implement ownership and accountability. And so really taking that on and committing to that, you are going to be so much happier in your practice. So with that, I honestly believe that if you want to build this high performing team with true accountability, ownership, really getting them to take it on, DM us, we're here to help you. This is what we do day in and day out. I would love to help you send us a message on Instagram.
or check out our website. We have a lot of leadership tips within our newsletter, so be sure to join our newsletter. Tons of free resources for you. And if you're like, hey, I wanna go to the next level, I want you to help our team, I want you to be able to do this, reach out. This is where we're able to help you get ownership and accountability within your practice. We have these conversations with your office manager, so you don't have to. We have these conversations with team members, so you don't have to. And it becomes something where we really can grow these teams to have high accountability, high ownership.
Kiera Dent (14:01.9)
and being able to have that culture within your practice. So reach out. This is truly what the Dental A team does. This is what we're about. This is what we love to do. We are truly the best in the business at doing this. And I know that if you implement these things, you are going to see a very different practice. You're gonna see so many great things happen that you will be shocked and so happy. And with that guys, always, always, always, always make sure that the culture that you want is the culture that you're creating. You as leaders are the ones who are creating the culture. So make sure it's the culture that you want.
And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.
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Kiera is joined by Dr. Christy Moore of Moore Smiles to talk about how Dr. Moore has maintained her passion for dentistry over the decades, including providing solid leadership for your team, keeping an amazing culture, and branching out to services like Botox.
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Transcript:
Kiera Dent (00:01)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera. And today I have such a special guest. I love this woman so much. She has been a client of ours. She's been a dear friend of mine. This woman just makes you want to be a better human. And she's an incredible dentist, has some really fun ideas. I want her to come on and just share like a super unique way she runs her practice and just let you guys know this woman who I've just been so lucky to know for so long. Welcome to the show, Christy Moore. How are you today, Christy?
Dr.Christy Moore (00:27)
I'm doing great, Kara. Thank you so much for that introduction. How about yourself?
Kiera Dent (00:30)
Yeah,
I'm doing really, really well. It's been a podcast full day, but it's been fun. You're my last podcast of the day. So always an exciting thing. But Christy, you're such an incredible human. I feel like the world needs more Christy's. So I feel like you should tell them a little bit about who you are, where you're practicing, a little bit about your journey to practice ownership. And then like I said, she's doing something so special that so many offices are trying to do that can't do it successfully and Christy, you've done it. So.
Dr.Christy Moore (00:45)
Thank you.
Kiera Dent (00:57)
Just kind of tell everybody, like, how did you get into dentistry? What's kind of your path to where we are today?
Dr.Christy Moore (01:03)
Yeah, so I actually started in dentistry all the way back in 1995, which was quite a few years ago. I started out as a dental assistant and then went to high-teen school, work, yeah.
Kiera Dent (01:13)
That's why I like you. I had no clue you
were a dentalist. This is why we connect, Christy, all right? It says so much about you now. I get it, I understand.
Dr.Christy Moore (01:18)
Yeah.
So I did, I did hygiene for about 10 years and then I went to dental school. I got out of dental school in 2012 and knew that I wanted to own my own practice and came out of the gate purchasing a practice from a previous Dr. Moore, no relation. We still kind of get people wanting to know like if that's my dad or my uncle, there's no relation whatsoever. But it came out in 2012, bought my own practice and started, started right out of the gate being an owner at that point.
Kiera Dent (01:52)
That's incredible. And do you regret it? Because so many students straight out of school are like, ah, like, I don't think I'm ready. most of them are like, no, just buy. Are you so glad you bought right from the get go? Or do wish you would have like done an associate ship if you could do it all over again?
Dr.Christy Moore (02:06)
I'm glad that I bought straight out of the gate. I kind of had an idea of like how I wanted to run the practice. I think being in dentistry for a few years before I even went to dental school, I knew what I liked, I knew what I didn't like. So being able to just start out and then own my own practice and then kind of build it from there was kind of nice.
You know, I didn't go in and change things immediately that the previous owner had been there for 40 years And so like I kind of slowly started implementing things and changing things like he didn't even have Computers so, you know you come out there's they were still scheduling on the little piece of you know The book we had to like erase it and all that stuff So ⁓ it we didn't have internet in the building, you know, and I come from like having internet. Yes. Yes 2012
Kiera Dent (02:50)
2012?
Dr.Christy Moore (02:53)
So it was an event to get things up to par. But I'm so glad that I did it that way because the team that I lost team members, of course, but then the team members that stuck it out with me, like I still have one to this day. And she's one of my ride or dies and just levered her dead.
Kiera Dent (03:04)
course.
That's amazing. I think that that's something like, I can't imagine. I mean, this is a true definition of a sleeping practice, Christy. Like I tell everybody, like, you want to buy a sleeping practice, like paper charts. I've never had anybody with no internet. And when I first started assisting, so let's think it would have been in 2003. So that's when I first heard we had a paper book and they like erased it, but that was 2003. I mean, you were multi-years post that and still
Dr.Christy Moore (03:35)
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Kiera Dent (03:41)
Yeah, and I remember like erasing, like Terry was her name up front, it was my first office. They had the like suction, we're gonna spit in it. I thought it was disgusting, but I'm like, sweet, now don't have to worry about the UV light. I have no way to suction as an assistant, so that was kind of handy for me, but also disgusting. But I remember like, erase it out. I'm like, this seems so archaic, but YOLO. So here we go. Wow, okay. So then you bought the practice in 2012, no nothing.
Dr.Christy Moore (04:00)
Yes. Yes.
Kiera Dent (04:09)
kind of walk me through your practice journey. Like where did you go? Like how many team members? What was kind of the, I mean, you basically had like nothing but up from where you started. So that was a positive, like internet, paper charts. So kind of walk me through, you started there, where are you now today? What does your practice kind of look like? And then I'm gonna ask another question. I just wanna like get to that. Then I have.
Dr.Christy Moore (04:21)
Yes, yes.
Yeah, so when I started out, I bought the practice and we had two hygienists, an assistant and a lady up front. And when I came in and told them that we were gonna go, yeah.
Kiera Dent (04:40)
I wanted to die. You're like, I'm
gonna take away your paper and pencil and she's like, what? ⁓
Dr.Christy Moore (04:45)
yeah, she quit immediately. Like I told her we were
going to get the computers and she turned in her notice. So yeah, that was immediate. So that was like the first change I had to overcome. So that was kind of interesting. ⁓ But yeah, so every, it was always funny because every time we had a change, things just got better. Things got better each time, you know, and like even like one of the hygienists that I had.
Kiera Dent (04:51)
believe it.
Yeah.
Dr.Christy Moore (05:09)
I told them we were gonna get digital x-rays, know, because we still had the old school x-rays for a while. When we went and got the digital x-rays, she prayed that Jesus would come back because she didn't want to have to do the training. I was like, seriously? Like you prayed that so that we didn't have to do the training? But yeah, there's people, people don't really like change, I found out. So.
Kiera Dent (05:19)
What?
you
No, not at all.
Wow. I used to pray, I remember telling a dentist, I had a really strict dentist on our x-rays and I remember saying like, I hope I can make it into heaven if I can't pass x-rays off with you. Like I had a lot of sass as an assistant and that was what I was praying for Jesus for, but not to not have to learn it. Cause honestly, man, cause in dental school, like assisting school, I learned on film, like, which is so...
Dr.Christy Moore (05:42)
haha
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (05:54)
embarrassing because I don't feel like I'm really that old but like truly I did. I remember taking the x-rays on Dexter and then when I went to a practice and it had digital I'm like hallelujah you can actually see where your misplacement of your x-ray machine is. I'm like this is so much faster like rather than waiting for it to come through then you're like oh shoot we cone cut and I had no clue like I can't imagine why anybody would be stressed to learn that because I'm like it was so much easier than film. So much easier.
Dr.Christy Moore (06:01)
yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes, yes,
absolutely. But that was the thing, like I think that you were a better, you know, x-ray taker before because you did not want to have to wait, you know, five minutes and then retake it and made another one. So you're like, okay, I want to make sure that I know how to do this and do this efficiently so that I don't have to take it again.
Kiera Dent (06:39)
mean, maybe that is why, because I was the one who actually trained a lot of the Midwestern students on radiology. They were having the doctors teach it and I was like, listen, guys, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I know you're not good at this and I'm actually really good at this. So why don't I teach these doctors how to like crush their FMX rather than you like, I'm like, you cone cut left and right guys. Like again, nothing personal. I'm just really good at this. So, but yeah, maybe that's why, cause I did learn on film originally and then went to.
Dr.Christy Moore (06:59)
Yes.
Kiera Dent (07:06)
by digital, but okay. So you go through this, you have an assistant praying for Jesus to come such an afternoon. Just go, okay. Now, now where are you at, Christy? Where's, where's life on the practice for you?
Dr.Christy Moore (07:12)
Yes, yes.
So now
we ⁓ practice in Sweetwater, Tennessee. So it's a small rural town. I have no idea how many people are there, but it's not a whole lot. But it's funny because now we have three doctors. I think we have four assistants. We have four hygienists, a treatment coordinator, an office manager, and an insurance coordinator, and two girls up front.
Kiera Dent (07:43)
So, and she has internet and likes computers. So we're good on that. That's incredible. You went from two to four and are you working on a second location? I feel like I've heard from Tiffany, like there's a mix with your friend, but like, is there a second location, just a solo location? What's kind of your plan with
Dr.Christy Moore (07:47)
Yes. Yes.
It's a solo location, but I do have a friend that I went to dental school with and she actually is working in an office that's really just kind of down the street from me. And so we've been, I've been helping her quite a bit with that because she didn't really want to like, you know, run the practice or anything like that. And so I was like, well, I'll help you all that I can. So that's what we're kind of doing there, but it's an endo practice and I do not want to do endo at all.
Kiera Dent (08:26)
You're like,
you will say good friends, you do your thing, I'll do my thing. And yeah. Exactly. And I know Tip just loves you. She loves coming to you. I know something that you have highlighted for me, like just in my time knowing you is one, you're always so positive and you're so fun. You make me laugh. But I think about your Christmas parties, like your holiday parties with your team. It's like sleepover at Christy's house, which.
Dr.Christy Moore (08:30)
Yeah, I'll refer all my endopations to you.
Kiera Dent (08:48)
Most doctors would never do that. And I just love you like, yeah, they love it. They come over, we do party, we have a slumber party, which I just think says a lot about you. So I'm curious, Christy, like something I think you do really well. Don't worry, there is a teaser. I want you guys to hear something she does really special, but I think you also do incredible for culture. What would you say to like owner doctors going from where you were to where you are today, having the culture that you built? What are some of the tips that you think you've done specifically as the owner and with your team?
to have this amazing culture that you run, Christy. Like you just have a fun culture that's amazing.
Dr.Christy Moore (09:20)
⁓ I think that my biggest thing is that I just try to treat people and treat my team the way I would want to be treated. You know, I was a team member for so long that that's all that I really knew. And sometimes I think it kind of came back and bit me a little bit just because I did allow things to go on a little bit longer in the beginning. But ⁓ I think treating people the way that I wanted to be treated has just been my motto for everything. The same way it was like dental stuff. Like I do for people in their mouth what I would want done.
in my mouth, you know? So I think if you kind of live by those rules, then how can you go wrong?
Kiera Dent (09:57)
No, I agree with you. And Christy, this is just like your Southern hospitality. I'm always like, I want to go to Sweetwater and just have you be my dentist and work for you. Like just an amazing place that you do. I think kudos to you for doing that. I have a question. If you were to go back to 2012, you're buying this practice, what would be like the one, two or three, I'll allow it to three, things that you would tell yourself to get into place or things to know? Because I think so many owners are maybe where you were in 2012. Again, I have Wi-Fi.
probably have at least a computer in the practice. But you know, you never know. I'm always shocked at what I, I walked into this office, he's elite, you know him, he's in our group. And I walked into his practice, I've been coaching for a while, like this man is doing really, really well in his practice. And I walked in and I was like, you have paper charts? Like you didn't bother to tell me for a year that this was maybe an issue? And he was like, no, it's fine. And I'm like, it is not fine. Like, what are you doing?
Dr.Christy Moore (10:45)
you
It is not fine.
Kiera Dent (10:51)
like let's get you updated real quick. Kudos to him. I don't think usually doctors are that open to changing and he did so like mad kudos to him. I was like, Christy, I'll tell you off podcast air who this was and you will be shocked to like, wait, what? He's so like up to date on things. And I was like, okay, here we are. But if you could tell yourself back in 2012, what are like one, two or three things that you feel would just be good tips of advice for someone buying a practice or taking over a team or the growth you've had in the last 13 years?
to get to the level that you are, because you're still happy, you still love dentistry, you still enjoy it, like there's still sparkle in your eye, don't, like every time you come to our calls, I don't feel like Christy's like dead on the ground, like she hates her life. Like I know you have moments of that, but I still think you're very happy. So what would be some things you would tell yourself going back into that back in 2012?
Dr.Christy Moore (11:39)
I think one of the biggest things, this is like no plug for the DLAA team or anything like that, but ⁓ I did not get a coach until about three years out of practice. ⁓ So I had practiced three years, I really wasn't growing, I really wasn't like going backwards, but I really wasn't growing or anything like that. And so at that point, that's when I actually brought on a coach. And I didn't bring on a coach because I was seeking one out. I had one just kind of show up at the office. And then it's like, he's...
He's here, you know, like I can't like say, she's busy because, you know, he's sitting out in the reception room, like waiting for me. And so like, but it was one of the best things that I did. It was hard just because, you know, they offer advice that works for, you know, like a generalized, you know, group of dentists. ⁓ And so being able to take some of that advice, but also being able to put my own spin on it.
⁓ helped me out and I probably probably listening to the coaches a little bit more than what I did because they did allow grace for me to like drag my feet a little bit, you know, because there was things that had to be done that I didn't really want to do. ⁓ I'm you know, I've been on the disc profile for every, you know, so I'm definitely an IS. So I don't like to rock the boat and I like to have a good time. So like having tough conversations is one of the things that I do not like to do.
Kiera Dent (12:56)
Yes you are.
Dr.Christy Moore (13:05)
⁓ So the other thing that I think that I would probably do is like make sure that I'm reading more books, learning how to be a leader and how to have those conversations, how to have it in a way that it's not like, I'm being the bad guy or I'm having to, you know, like be mean to somebody, but actually being able just to talk to them and just a conversation. And I've heard you say this a million times, it's a conversation, not a confrontation. And just knowing that because being clear is kind and I...
not always as clear as what I needed to be. I just wanted everybody to have fun and like me and so I let things go that probably shouldn't have been able to continue. So that's probably the two biggest things is just working on myself as a leader and you know bringing somebody in to help me a little bit earlier. I'm glad that I did bring somebody in at three years ⁓ just because like I knew I didn't know what I didn't know.
And I was like, well, I I think I need to be growing a little bit more than what I am, you being right out of dental school. So bringing somebody in, was definitely something I'm glad I did. I just wish I would have done it a little bit sooner.
Kiera Dent (14:17)
Sure. And Christy, I'll take all the plugs. Like, of course, the Dental A Team, like, yeah, having a coach is always a good thing. We love you as a client. And Tip, I know I really just watched you grow. And I do think that having someone teach you what you don't know. And mean, Christy, you came in with a lot of experience. So even like dentists who weren't assistants, weren't hygienists, I mean, you already came with a pretty good dental pedigree chart to you ⁓ to have that. agree. And even for me, I'm like, I coach businesses and yet having a coach, having someone guide me that's been there, done that, done that successfully, I think.
Dr.Christy Moore (14:20)
Ha
Kiera Dent (14:47)
is so helpful and I agree the leadership piece it's like well you did four years of dental school to learn how to get that prep get that crown it's like well let's also do at least that amount of time to be leaders and leadership is not like something you you end up at you get your degree it's a forever journey so it's like all right here we are let's settle in like this is what we elected to do but Christy I do and Tiff will say that she's watched you grow a lot which is really fun for us to see you grow and evolve too ⁓ but
Dr.Christy Moore (15:01)
No. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (15:15)
I've teased this out a couple of times. Christy has the Botox practice. Like they, she actually has done it. She's cracked the code. So many offices are like, no, I only have Botox in here to do my own face. So Christy, I want to talk about this because I've been jonesing to talk about this. I secretly want to know too, but how on earth have you cracked the code to get Botox to be a profitable portion, a big piece of your practice? ⁓ Because I think like everybody wants to do this and no one knows how to do it. Like literally, I think you are my first office to ever.
actually have it be successful. So Christy, take us away on Botox. I know people, I'm I've been waiting to drop this because I'm like, it's going to be so great. No one knows how to do this other than Christy Moore. So let's let it rip.
Dr.Christy Moore (15:57)
Well, the thing too is like anybody can do it. Like if I can do it in Sweetwater, Tennessee, like anybody can do this anywhere. Actually, I started with the first course that I ever took was probably, I think it was like 2016 or something like that. And the only reason I took the course was because I had the girls in the office wanted me to do it and a couple of patients. Yeah. And so I went and took the course and while I was at the course, I ended up signing up for the TMD course like the next day. Like that wasn't even on the plan.
Kiera Dent (16:15)
Yep. ⁓
Dr.Christy Moore (16:26)
but I went ahead and signed up for that. And that was like a true passion for me just because I was like, wow, like this does more than just, you know, helps with wrinkles. This can actually help patients. This is problems that they're having when they come in the office. And so like I did that part and then I come back to work and it's like, okay, now what? You know, so like one of the things that I started doing was I was like, okay, girls, you got to get in the chair. We're going to do some, we're going to do some Botox on you, you know? And so that was kind of how it started. We, did the team members.
Kiera Dent (16:51)
Yeah.
Dr.Christy Moore (16:54)
I had a few steady patients that would come in, but it really didn't go quick. It was a slow going thing at first. ⁓ And then I started talking to patients about TMD issues, clenching and grinding, they're coming in with headaches. Men typically don't have pain associated with it, but a lot of women do. And so I would say, well, you know what? What's really helped me is that I can go in here and treat your masseters.
and with some Botox there and then that can help you quit clenching and it helps with headaches. I'm going over that and then their next thing out of their mouth is, well, if you can do my massagers, can you help my face too? And I'm like, oh, well, actually, yes, we can. We can help you out there. And then it just kind of get a little bit more, a few more patients, word of mouth. And it really wasn't until probably about two or three years ago.
you know, we just doing more and more people. And then I brought in a marketing person who's actually my daughter and she's my treatment coordinator as well. And she's just really put it out there on social media. And she got these PowerPoints together and this is what we play. Like it's in the reception room, it's in all the treatment rooms. And it's just like what can be done, what all we offer. And so from 2016 to now,
Like we've moved from just doing like Botox, but we kind of do like all the stuff. You know, we do filler, we do threads, we do smooth threads, we do lifting threads, we do micro-needling. And then we recently just got a laser as well. So, you know, that's one of the things that just kind of getting the word out and letting people know is the biggest hurdle. And that was probably the biggest thing that helped us for sure about getting the word out. Now we have people...
that call in and like we just recently had a guy call in and he wanted to a coupon. I want to know if we had coupons for the wife because he wanted to give her a gift certificate for a Botox. He found us online. So just getting the word out there is probably the hardest thing, but it's the best thing to do. treating your team members because they're walking advertisements. And who better to practice on than your team members because
Kiera Dent (18:55)
Thank
Dr.Christy Moore (19:11)
You know, if you mess up, which you can, you know, they're more forgiving and then you get, you know, the next time around you get another little chance to do it a little bit better. And then you're like, okay, now you're learning. So not only are you getting advertisement out there, but you're learning as you go too. And I've done like all kinds of training. And I don't just go with one person. Like I've done like several different.
I've done faces, I've done metastatics, I've done the AAFE, I did a couple of different individual people because I feel like if you can learn from everybody and take a little bit from everybody and then you bring it in and make it your own and I think that's kind what we've done at our little office.
Kiera Dent (19:56)
I love it, Christy. Okay, let's talk about it. A few things I've noticed is you guys have a big Botox sign in your practice. I think it's hot pink. Is this really true? I'm pretty sure. I thought about you, right? Okay, so.
Dr.Christy Moore (20:05)
Mm-hmm Yeah, we have a slideshow
and it's got it's got all the talks it's got everything on there. Yeah The neon sign Yeah
Kiera Dent (20:13)
Yeah, so one thing is, it's neon. That's what I'm saying.
It's like a tube neon, Botox across her wall sign that I'm like, okay, number one, yes. This is what I'm talking about. When you wanna market something and people are like, I can't get Botox. I'm like, well, nobody even knows that you even do it. So, Christy, you're like loud and bold about it. It's a hot pink sign that I remember. I saw people under it. I've seen it on your social. But one of the things, like how else?
Dr.Christy Moore (20:23)
Says less talks about it. Yeah.
yeah.
Kiera Dent (20:42)
I also love that you talked about you treatment plan it in. Like you as a dentist are treatment planning this Botox and looking at their masseter muscles, just like anything else. I feel like you've done a really good job of pulling that into just even do it clinically, not just aesthetically, which I think that's also really great. But what would you say if I'm a new dentist? And I also love these to have taken it from so many people because I did have someone give me Botox and I full blown got a halo.
Like it was so thick, it was so heavy. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I've never, like, I need my eyebrows off my eyes. Like get that up. It feels terrible. So I'm glad to hear that you're like just constantly going, but what would you say? Okay, new dentist, I just took the course. I'm super excited. I think one, it bold. Two, do the masseters. Cause that's a very easy way to start treatment planning and talking about it for word of mouth. But what else would you say to do? Like, I mean, you got the whole PowerPoint. So.
What would you say would be avenue one, two or three to really grow this to get it as a big portion of my practice?
Dr.Christy Moore (21:39)
Working on friends and family, working on your team, that's the number one thing. And then just getting it out there on social media. Having your team, even if you're doing injections on them, videoing that, getting out there and doing stuff. like Laken, she makes me do things that is uncomfortable for me. And so she's like, oh, you'll be fine. You're gonna get out here and you're gonna do it. She did like a...
a Facebook live where I'm doing filler and she asked me a question and I don't answer her and she's like, what? was like, well, maybe I didn't know the answer. So if I don't know the answer, I'm just not gonna answer you. And she's like, well, it's okay. I'm just doing filler words here. We're just trying to make the conversation go. And I'm like, okay. But getting out there and just letting people know, that is the biggest thing. It's new to our practice. It's, let's.
do specials, like we've done Botox parties. ⁓ We did like a Sips and Scans and Botox. We've done kind of all types of little things where we've actually give people discounts just to get them in. We've actually gone out and gave ⁓ like little coupons out to like the different salons in the area, just trying to get the word out there any way that we can to let people know, hey, we're doing this. Who's gonna know your face better than anybody than a dentist? I mean, we have like a whole semester on just
head and neck anatomy. And so like that's, it's just the thing that they're like, I didn't know a dentist could do that. And you know, and it's like, well, yeah, like we're probably really good at doing it. You know, just because we do know the muscles, we do know everything as far as like this works this way, this works that way, you know, making sure that you're treating the patient, not just the face, like making sure that we're, cause I do have people come in and they're like, well I want some Botox up here.
Kiera Dent (23:15)
Thank
Dr.Christy Moore (23:33)
And it may be like older ladies and like they've already got the hooded eyelids. And I'm like, honey, I can't do a lot of Botox up there. Like I can take away your wrinkles, but if I do that, like you're not gonna be able to hold your eyelids up. So it's gonna make it harder for you to see. When they're like, oh, well, I don't want that. So just kind of knowing your anatomy, knowing what muscles do what, and then not being afraid to go in and just try it. Just get in there and do it. It's not.
Even if you think you've messed somebody up, I mean, it's what, three months? So it's not anything that you can't recover from. And then patients are very forgiving. They're very understanding. ⁓ In my time of doing it, I've had two people that I've actually give a little crooked smile to. And both of them are like, it's okay. Don't worry about it. And I feel horrible. And they're like, no, it's okay. It'll be better. It's not really that noticeable. And I'm like,
Kiera Dent (24:06)
Exactly.
Dr.Christy Moore (24:31)
I notice it, you know? So I'm just doing it because people, want it. They don't want to go anywhere else. They want you to be able to do it. And if you can do it, then why not? You know? So I think that just not being afraid just to try it and do it and just, even if you're scared, like do it scared. Like I heard, I seen that the other day and it was like, you I'm nervous every time I get up and speak in front of somebody and they're like, well, how do you do it? He said, I just get up and do it scared. I'm like, that's...
Kiera Dent (24:42)
Mm-hmm.
Dr.Christy Moore (25:00)
That's so interesting because a lot of people, they're like, well, I'm scared. I'm not going to do it. And so if you don't do it, you're never going to not get scared or not get you. You got to get comfortable. You got to be comfortable being uncomfortable. And that's the only way to do it is just to get in there and do it.
Kiera Dent (25:17)
I agree. Christy, I love that. And I love that you just talked about, like, I think something that you did differently is you decided this would be a portion of your practice. It's not just for the ladies in the practice. You're like, no, we're going to have this as a portion. We're going to make this like it's a full procedure in our office. I'm not just doing it for like our team. And I think that that's something where you went in with that attitude. I think there's a huge passion that you have on it, but I agree. think there are girls like, Kiera, who does your Botox? I'm like, the dentist. And they're like, what?
Dr.Christy Moore (25:45)
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (25:46)
And I'm like, yeah.
Dr.Christy Moore (25:46)
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (25:47)
And I also love dentists because I went to a dentist versus an esthetician versus an MD. I've gone through three different people. The esthetician gave me the most amount of Botox. That's the one where I got the hood. Like, believe it or not, she's the one who gave it to me. And like, the amount of Botox she put in me was incredible. Then I went to an MD who was doing it. And he also like it was a lot like my face was frozen solid, frozen, frozen. And I'm like, all right, so we're like,
he did bro-tox, which that's a good phrase. I think that if you wanted to target the men, he called it bro-tox for the men, which I that was super clever. But my husband even like, he could not move his face at all. So it was a little, in my opinion, excessive. But dentists I feel are more conservative on the botox level. You don't tend to go quite as much as the estheticians or the MDs, which I appreciate. ⁓ Like you said, you know the muscles, you know the anatomy super well. And I think like, go for it, have it as a portion.
Dr.Christy Moore (26:21)
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (26:43)
So with your numbers, because Christy, I know you know your numbers, like what percentage of your practice does Botox bring in? Do you know that? I could be putting you on the spot. So maybe I'm like, you're taught her and I'm asking you questions you don't.
Dr.Christy Moore (26:53)
Yeah,
I'm not really 100 % sure to be honest with you. I would say it's at least probably at least 10%. You know, I would like for it to be more. And that's one of my goals is to get that side of the business to be, you know, grow and be more because like for me, like as a dentist, we hear all the time, you know, I hate the dentist. Oh, no offense, but I hate the dentist. Are you going to stick that needle in my mouth? Are you going to stick that in my guns? You know, I've never had one person ever say,
Kiera Dent (27:01)
I think so too.
Dr.Christy Moore (27:23)
I hate my injector. You know, are you going to stick that needle in my face? Like, no, they love you. They want the, and they, they, they will pay money for it. You don't have to worry about insurance, you know, when you're doing that part. So I would definitely like for that to be more like, if I can have my whole day just doing like the aesthetic stuff, like that would be my ideal day, you know, because that's, it's, it's almost like, it's like a masterpiece. You know, you've got, you've got this canvas and you're not changing people. You're just enhancing what they already have.
Kiera Dent (27:43)
was amazing.
Dr.Christy Moore (27:53)
You know, like I don't want to go in, my goal is that when somebody leaves the practice that they don't actually look like they've had Botox or they don't look like they've had filler. I want them to look fresh, not frozen, like you said. And so like, you know, that goes back to like knowing the muscles, watching the patient, treating the actual patient instead of like the cookie cutter, you know, oh, well, to treat the glabella, you know, you need, you know, 20 to 24 units, you know, to treat the frontalis, you need 20 to 24 units, you know.
It's like, okay, well, they pull really hard here, but they don't really pull hard here. So let's treat it this way, you know? And so, like, so, cause each one of them are like FDA approved for a certain amount, you know? And that, and that's like the standard, but everybody's different. And so that's my, you know, I just want to make sure that I treat the patients, treat the patient the way the patient needs to be treated.
Kiera Dent (28:30)
Yeah.
Amen. And I love that about Christy and I think like, okay, I just did some math. So let's say you have a million dollar practice 10 % that's 100 grand pulling in, which I know Christy, your practice is not the million dollar practice. You guys can do the math, you can figure it out. But like if it's 10 % think about that, that's an extra hundred thousand. The overhead on it's pretty minimal. It's a great piece. Like you said, you're able to do these extra pieces. And you're right, there's no insurance. People pay top dollar to stay looking young. It's incredible. Like
Dr.Christy Moore (29:11)
the
Kiera Dent (29:12)
⁓ I also was thinking of there's people all around here and they're called like the injection queen or they're like, so it's like really on their social media. It's not just their dentistry piece, but it's this whole portion of aesthetics that people then are coming for it because they want to look good. I saw an office at dental practice and they literally have a Botox membership plan. And I was like, that is freaking clever. Yeah, tell us about it. Okay, tell more about this. How does it work and do people really sign up for it? Cause I think it's so smart.
Dr.Christy Moore (29:32)
We have that. Yeah.
Absolutely,
absolutely they sign up for it. And so I, of course, I don't try to reinvent the wheel. I got it from somebody else, but it's basically a membership plan. They pay for 20 units for the year. So it's 20 units for four times throughout the year. If they don't use it, they lose it. But once they pay for that, so their initial upfront payment is probably a little bit more, but it ends up saving them about $300 throughout the year.
Kiera Dent (29:58)
Mm-hmm.
Dr.Christy Moore (30:07)
but it actually like they pre-play for 20 units each time. so, you know, so it's just, and then they get a discount on the actual dollar amount that they actually get. So, you know, like if you have somebody that typically gets 50 units, then they only have to pay for 30 units each time that they come in.
So it actually, and I tell them, they're like, ⁓ that's a whole lot better, because then my husband don't ask questions on, it's less, that's less about. And I'm like, yeah, absolutely. And I've had people actually even put money in, pay throughout that just so that they have it. And that's when I was like, well, why don't we do a membership plan? That makes it a whole lot easier. And also I wanted to reward my patients that have been loyal, that have been coming in. Times are changing, and so prices go up.
Kiera Dent (30:46)
yet.
Dr.Christy Moore (30:56)
And so like I didn't really want to have to like increase my price just because, know, you know, I've been doing it for a while. I've really not changed my price and I didn't want to have to change my price. So my people that have been coming in and loyal to me, I wanted to be able to give them, give back to them and give, you know, give them the opportunity to keep it at the price that I was doing it for. And so that's kind that was one of the other, you know, benefits for me is so that I could actually give back to those people that trusted me with their face.
when I was still learning and stuff. ⁓ And so it's worked out really well. I don't know how many people we have on it now, but we get people like just about every day when they come in, we'll have at least like one or two a week that'll sign up on the membership plan.
Kiera Dent (31:41)
which is so smart because Botox is like better than profies. Like they have to come in every three months rather than every six months. ⁓ It is something where I'm not gonna lie. Like my husband, it was random. He did tell me, I got it done. And a couple of days later, he didn't know. Cause I get it on the road, Christy. I'm one of those, I mean, I work with a lot of dentists. So when I'm traveling around, I get my face frozen and I came home and my husband's like, gosh, Kiera, you look a lot better. Like what, did you change your hair? And I was like,
Dr.Christy Moore (31:45)
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (32:09)
No, my face just looks younger and you can definitely tell and I appreciate that. And when you get that reinforcement, you're like, yes, I'm going to keep up with this and I want to. And it's the only like proactive preventative way right now. Like there's biohacking on all the levels, but just having that as a piece for it. And so I think it's just an awesome, awesome thing to do. I love the membership plan. I love that you're growing it. Like this is where I saying, like you have cracked the code on how to do it. And I was like, I've got to dig into this. And I want people to hear because
Dr.Christy Moore (32:16)
Yes.
Kiera Dent (32:37)
I think Christy, it also keeps your excitement for dentistry alive. I think you get passionate because it's a new passion project. It's fun for you. It's something different. I love that you said like, I want you looking fresh, not frozen. It made me giggle. like, you want me to still look alive rather than dead in my coffin? Like, God, I agree. That's how I want to feel too. So thank you. ⁓ But any other thoughts you have of practices wanting to put in Botox or anything else about your practice? Because this is like
Dr.Christy Moore (32:44)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Kiera Dent (33:02)
the nuts and bolts of what I want to talk about tonight. So any last thoughts you have around it, because I truly appreciate you just coming on and sharing what you're doing in your practice.
Dr.Christy Moore (33:11)
I think the biggest thing is just, you you just have to do it. You know, like I said before, if you're scared to do it, just do it scared. You know, after so many times, it's not as scary anymore. Like we actually have ⁓ in our schedule, like we have blocks for like our tox patients for them to come in. And so, you know, those may get filled, they may not get filled. But when they get filled, like it's always like, it's usually an extra anywhere between 500 to $1,000.
for just a little extra that doesn't really take me that long. Like I come in and I look and I'm like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. The girls draw it up, they have it already. I come back in, the face is clean, the photos are taken. We did injections and then the patient's out the door. And so it's basically like a hygiene check for me. So I'm in and out quick. But the patients have been in there with a team member, so they feel like they're getting heard.
Kiera Dent (34:00)
Mm-hmm.
Dr.Christy Moore (34:09)
They know all of their concerns are being addressed. so, you know, just having a team there that supports you and believes in you. And like once they believe in you, then, you know, then that's how the patients start believing in you.
Kiera Dent (34:22)
Awesome, Christy. I love that so much. I'm like, gosh, doctors, when you're complaining to us about your Delta Dental ⁓ exam pricing, well, maybe throw a little bit of those botox ones. Like you said, I'm like, $500 exam versus my $30 exam feels a little bit more fun, a little more fun for you. But Christy, kudos to it. And all of you listening, I hope you just took notes. You realize like you can add these as portions of your practice and not just like a small sliver, but a true like 10 % of your practice bringing that in.
having it be a big portion of it. And like you said, giving back to people. I prefer a dentist to do my Botox over an esthetician or an MD. And that's me personally, who's gone to several different people, people who are the best, people who are over that. And I mean, Botox are paying $10 to $12 a unit with Botox or Disport. That's a pretty good gig all the way around. And I just think it's a fun thing. So Christy, thanks for being in our life. These are the things, the way I found out was in our doctor mastermind. We have our doctor only, and I was like.
Christy's doing Botox, I'm gonna put it on the podcast and talk about this more. So this is fun stuff to also have you as a client, to have you in our life, to have you in our world. You just bring a wealth of goodness, Christy. So thanks for being on the podcast. I know it's the end of your day, so thanks for coming. Yeah, of course, super happy to have you. Of course. And for all of you listening, go figure out how to put Botox in your schedule. Go figure out how to do this. Do it scared, whatever it is for you, do it scared. If we can help in any way, reach out [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening. We'll catch you next time.
Dr.Christy Moore (35:28)
Well, thank you.
Thank you.
Kiera Dent (35:47)
The Dental A Team podcast.
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Kiera and Dana perform a practice autopsy mashup. In this episode, they specifically take a look at multi-location practices, and how to make all of them profitable instead of just one or two. Topics discussed include overhead, associates, marketing, and more.
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Transcript
Kiera Dent (00:00)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is such a special day. I have the one and only Dynamite Dana. I think that that's what we're sticking with. I think it's better than the other nickname that we came up with. But Dana, if you guys know her, you love her. She's been in a consultant with us for years. Dana, welcome to the show today. How are you?
Dana (00:17)
Yeah, good morning. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. I don't get much like podcast time with you. It's usually with him. So it's a fun morning for me.
Kiera Dent (00:26)
I
know Dana's a rock star. ⁓ I, yes, I can sell a little podcast and yes, that's fun to do, but it's more fun to have someone on here. So I sent Dana a message and I had it like in the afternoon. And then I was like, Ooh, my schedule changed and moved it to like first thing in the morning. So Dana, thanks for being easy to accommodate. but I think that that's you. You're just always there, always willing to help and offices love you for that. So
Dana (00:43)
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (00:51)
We have a fun topic, you guys. I love a good office autopsy. So Dana and are gonna kind of mash a couple practices together and dig into some practice profitability trends that we're seeing on an office autopsy. You ready for that today, Dana? Because I love these. Anything more than a good profitability story and how to get there, that's what it's about. And I think that that's what so many practices struggle with. They don't understand how to get profitable. They know that it's there. They know that it can be an illusion.
Dana (01:03)
Yeah, this is exciting.
Kiera Dent (01:18)
They know that it can be a reality for some. so Dana, I feel like some of the practices we've been dealing with lately, it's like actually making it turn into a reality rather than just as hope and a wish. So take it away. I know you've been working on this. I've been working on this. Let's have some fun today.
Dana (01:31)
Yeah, it's been really fun the past couple weeks. I've been like able to just do a lot of numbers crunching a lot of future projections a lot of like hey what effort is it gonna take to like get things where we want them to be and it's really fun to give owners like the possibilities of What they currently have or where they want to be and so it's just been really really interesting the last couple weeks getting to do that and getting
Kiera Dent (01:43)
you
Dana (02:02)
offices to see like where they want to put their energy where they may need to put their energy and so it's just been numbers aren't you know I'm learning to love numbers more and more ⁓
Kiera Dent (02:14)
Yes, did you hear that? Dana, did
you start out that way? Let's just let's just help listeners feel like is this a normal thing?
Dana (02:22)
No, I mean, I am a systems girl through and through. And so, you know, I know how important the numbers are. And of course, like those are pieces I look at. But really, really being able to manipulate the numbers, to be able to project things, that is something that I've really had to dig into more and more. And it's been fun for sure.
Kiera Dent (02:45)
Yeah, and I love the reason I highlight that is because for myself for Dana numbers were not something natural for some people it is just wired into you but I think for 90 % of human beings out there they would feel very similar to how you and I feel and so I just want to highlight that it's totally normal not to understand numbers but it is also normal to figure out how to use numbers and when you do it actually feels like like life becomes so much easier it's like
my gosh, there was an HOV lane this whole time. And I had no clue that there was like a fast pass, fast lane over there that if I would just learn my numbers and dig into it, I would honestly be able to do things a lot better. And so I think like, that's what makes me so excited Dana is this is where we also help practices. Like let's use the numbers to manipulate and actually do less work, more profitability and more ease. So kudos to you for digging in kudos for you, like admitting that systems are your gem, which I think it's easy, right? But to me, I'm like,
systems are only as valuable and only as important as the numbers are reflecting. Like, yes, we should put them in, but I'm like, if we're just putting systems in place, but we're not moving the dial, what does it matter? ⁓ You're going to be struggling. You're going to have financial stress. You're going to be like not happy. Use the numbers to figure out which system's broken and then go to work there. It becomes so much easier and less effort for sure.
Dana (04:02)
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty magical to see. So yeah.
Kiera Dent (04:05)
Right. All right.
So we have a couple of practices. We've got some that are multi locations. We've got some that are solo locations. And I think we should dig into some of these multi locations because multi locations I feel are like interesting families. And what I usually notice in multi locations, ⁓ oftentimes, depending upon the practice, these offices actually like one or two or three are super profitable. And then the other two are like sucking the practices dry.
And it's so interesting because we think like, let's get so many, which if your plan is like a DSO rollup or it's legacy, or you want to just expand your reach and you want to help more people, all those things are great and fine. but I think like figuring out how do I make my other locations profitable? Or if you're in a single location, I think a lot of these tactics will apply to you. So let's kind of dig into these multi-location places, Dana. ⁓ cause I think it's funny, like we've seen some offices where it's not funny. It's unfortunate that like two are doing so good. And so they expand and they open up more.
And then these other two are not doing so well. they're like two are profitable and two are not. So then we're not profitable all the way around and we're working our guts out. So let's talk about like, how do you fix that problem? And I think for solo practices, if you're in this boat, these things can apply to you too, if you're not as profitable, because I've also seen in solo practices where they've maybe added like a Medi Spa to it and maybe, and that's two technically different businesses under one roof.
If the spa is not doing well, like I just talked to someone the other day, their spa is sucking them dry, but the dental practice is doing well, but they think the practice needs help when it's like, no, no, no, the practice is fine. The Medi spa is the problem. Or if practices have multi locations, but it's all under one umbrella, they have no clue which practice is actually the problem practice. And I think that that's something we also see is they don't actually separate them out. So they're like, we don't even know which practice. So let's dive into it, Dana. You've been working with a couple like this. Let's kind of dig into some of your, your tips and tricks.
Dana (05:56)
Yeah, and that's honestly exactly what we did in the beginning is, hey, let's separate and let's look at numbers individually for each practice so we can see.
Kiera Dent (05:57)
you
Dana (06:06)
as a whole, are we doing? Yes. But where are we profitable and where aren't we so that we know, like you said, how we can hone in and target our efforts on the ones that need a little bit more of a boost or show a little bit more of opportunity. And so once we figured that out, then it really is looking at fixed costs for individual practices. It's looking at overhead expenses and then it is really projecting out what does it take to get it to where we want to be.
So what do we actually need? And in this instance, it was really cool to be able to even dive a little bit deeper as far as, okay, well, if we take the doctor, if we take the provider away from the profit that's like...
Kiera Dent (06:51)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓
Dana (06:51)
the practice is profitable and he's working in one of the other practices like what does that also cost the practice that is booming and so it's it was really fun to just map that out have them see that also too every time he's pulled to one of these other practices there is a cost to the
larger location. And so just getting them to see that it just helps him
make a better decision as far as
how much time that he is spending there versus associates and then getting the associates to help grow external practices. And it just, think gave him just a clearer picture. ⁓ And then we also looked at, okay, well, you know, considering investing in some marketing for these. So what does it take for how many new patients do we really need to get to that number? And then we kind of mapped it out and okay, well, what does the marketing spend look like for one year, for two years, for three years to get
there so then they had a timeline to ⁓ just be able to make decisions on.
Kiera Dent (07:57)
Mm
hmm. Yeah. No, Dana, you brought up so many good points. And I think like, let's drill down into this a little bit, because you like, these are the things where numbers become so fun, because now it's just a plus b equals c. But if we do a plus b plus c, that's going to equal d. If we take a minus b, add c, what does that equal? ⁓ And so that's really where it's like looking at this. And so I think for a lot of providers, especially our powerhouse providers that started the practice made these profits.
practices and then open multiples, there can be this thought process of, well, I have to be in the practice all the time. Otherwise, the practice doesn't make money. And I think that is one way to live. But let's also like, choose our own adventure books. Like, let's go back in time, like we could have at the end of that chapter, it says, okay, option one is you're going to actually continue working like this, and you are going to be the provider in four locations. Or we can have you be where we powerhouse you.
in one or two or maybe all four, but it's a very sustainable schedule for you. And we work to build up the associates and the hygiene department and we make it to where all of them are flourishing with or without you. And to me, I like to choose option B, you can choose option A if you want, but that's like a sure shot to burnout. And I think so many multi-practice owners actually do this, like I'm gonna go to all the practices because I'm the strong producer, I'm the strong provider, I need to get these things going and you can.
but it's like for how long and is there another path? So drilling it down, Dana, I think let's talk about like, how can they do this other path with ease? Like what are some of the tactical things that we've seen with practices you're working with, with other practices that we've worked with in the past? Like what are some of these like tactical pieces? how can we, because I think that illusion is so strong that I have to be the producer, I have to be the one who hits the numbers. What else can we do and how long is that timeline realistically?
Dana (09:47)
Yeah, I think the first and foremost is if you aren't going to be the provider in in the other practices It's really building strong associates really making sure that you're finding the right fit for Whether it's the main office whether it's one of the extension offices whatever it is that that associate really is the right fit and That you are calibrating really well and you are bringing in strong associates who want to grow these practices with you and alongside you because I get you can't be in every
practice you can but like you said it sure is a way to be exhausted and burnt out and start to just not love owning all of these practices.
Kiera Dent (10:28)
Mm-hmm. And like, let's so as you said that it makes me think about like when you buy a practice I remember I was working with this this potential client We were looking at the metrics of this practice and they realized that like 70 % of the production of this practice was actually being done By procedures that this dentist didn't do so was like, well good luck buying that practice You only can do 30 % of this production. So yes, they may have produced like 1.5 or 1.9 like whatever it is
but slash 70 % of that because you won't be able to produce that unless you bring an associate in. And so I think when you talked about like, are the monthly costs of this practice? What does it actually take us to run? Let's do our second location. Well, you're so used to your practice right now because you're probably doing these expanded procedures. You're probably doing these higher ones. And most of the time, what I see is doctors are like, well, I'm just going to hire someone who can do bread and butter dentistry as my associate. So then I can just do these big surgeries. Well, if that's the case, we need to figure out.
Practice number two or practice number three, A, what are the actual full costs of that practice and what do we need to produce? B, can we produce that on bread and butter or do we need to bring in your specialty? If we need to bring your specialty in or if we're going to pull you out of current option A, like where you currently are with an associate, how much of the dentistry is actually being done by your specialty services? And do you need to hire an associate that can do some of those specialty services as well? This is where the numbers become so paramount because it's like, we produced
1.5 or we produce two or we produce three. Now we're going to open our next location. But like Dana said, like bringing on an associate, it's not just a good fit. It's also making sure that they have the procedure makeup mix that can offset your production loss when you're gone. Or you get very strategic of, okay, when I am in practice A, I'm only doing these high end ones. So I'm producing this amount. They're, they're funneling these exams to me. You also have to be careful because if your associate doesn't do these high end procedures,
they're not going to look for in exams. So that's when you calibrate your associates, you calibrate your hygiene team to look for it. And when you get to multi offices, this is where Zoom and virtual meetings become paramount because you get all associates together and we all start looking for it. So we actually become referring partners to one another within the practices. And we also get our hygiene team and or AI to make sure that all the, of us are diagnosing the same level. So these are the things where I'm like, this actually can make your
multi-practice ownership way easier if you get these good foundations in place. And like you said, Dana, you find an associate who's like just as good, if not better, if you need them to be, but looking at the numbers because just because your practice is producing 2 million, 2.5, 3 million, wherever you are before you open your second location, maybe it's 1.5, look to see how much of that is done by your higher end services because typically an associate coming out of school
or a newer associate who's bread and butter dentistry is usually producing like five to 6,000 a day. Well, look at what you're producing. And if we brought someone in, can they produce that? Or if straight out of school, they're producing like 2,500. So you might need to scale up or have multi associates. But I think also being strategic when you open these practices of what do my doctors on the low end need to produce? Because I know they're going to produce lower at the beginning. How can I calibrate them and work with them every single month, every single week?
How can we take x-rays and make sure from the get-go these associates are doing really well? And also how can my hygiene team make sure that they're all calibrated to be doing the exams that we want? I think like those things might feel hard, but choose your heart in the scenario of I'd rather do that and know what I actually have to produce rather than just thinking we're gonna like stamp and repeat when you might be the higher producer. Dana, that was a lot of thoughts. What are your thoughts on that?
Dana (14:08)
No, I love that and you're exactly right. think looking at the service mix, knowing how much of your production comes from those things because then it's like how important is it to find that and what exactly am I looking for in an associate? you know, we talk about avatars a fair amount and it's just like that is what points you into building those pieces and honing in for exactly what you need to be successful.
Kiera Dent (14:34)
Mm-hmm, and I'm really big also on like how can we scrap the cost down at the beginning? Because gosh like I don't have children Dana you have four and so I think Question mark you you probably speak to this better than I can obviously you can't because you've gone through it But my hunch is when you have a baby, it's really hard and then as they get older You're like shoot. Let's have another baby and maybe you've forgotten how hard baby is when they're a baby Is this true or false? I just tell me how it is like
baby grows up and then you have the next baby like did you maybe forget how hard it was to have a brand new newborn and you're like tell me about that like how is that parenting
Dana (15:08)
yeah.
Well, yeah, for sure.
Your mind plays tricks on you and makes you think that it's going to be super simple. And yeah, it's just like each phase, right? You kind of forget how you look back, right? And you see the beautiful things, right? You see the things that were fun. You see how much they smelled so good and how little they were, you know, all those pieces. And yeah, you do remember or you do remember the highlights and you tend to forget like the long exhaust
you know, nights that can sometimes come with a little tiny human. So yeah.
Kiera Dent (15:43)
Yeah.
And I think that's about practice ownership too. So when you look at it, you have forgotten when you go to buy your second location, the scrap and the hard and all the things you did to build that thing to be successful. Like literally we forget, I forget, I mean, I was talking to Shelby and I'm like, I remember paying Tiffany on straight Venmo. Why she continued to work with me. I don't know my Venmo account. there's a max that you can send every single week, month.
And I'm like, Tiff, I hit my limit. Like, I'll have to send it to you when it resets in like three days. How on earth the Tiffany keep working with me is question number one I have. And number two, like, that's not even something that I even like remotely think about in today's world. Like, things are so set up, but you forget all of that. And so I think when we buy practice number two or practice number three, and we're looking at these costs, let's not go for the bougie luxury of exactly what we have. Let's figure out what are the things that are going to make it consistent. Same software, same exams, same like
a operatory setup if possible, because those things actually make you move quicker and then your practices become standardized. So when you go from location to location, it's much easier. But those are gonna be some of the things that also keep the costs lower. So we don't have to produce as much with you in there and still have it be profitable because you can have a practice that's only producing say 70,000 or 80,000 without you there at a 50 % overhead.
and still shelling out to you 20 to 30 % profit, depending upon how you're paying your associates. And that's still a great practice. It does not have to be producing the numbers if you keep your costs within reason. And so I think also being careful that if you're not there and we don't need all these, like we don't need all the marketing for the second location. We don't need all the implant supplies. Like if that's not a part in our associates not going to do it, then make sure that we're not incurring that cost. Because what that does is I think that this is where we then get into the struggle.
of the profitability of the multi-practices that then fluctuates because we're standardizing, but we're also trying to make all of them the exact same when maybe that's unnecessary. So I think that's one, but then you also talked about marketing because every new location has a different makeup. They're going to have a different makeup of patients. And just because it worked in one area for your marketing does not mean it works in another area. So Dana, let's do a little dig. We have a hypothetical for, for practice location, two practices are profitable. The other two aren't.
What are some of the steps or things that we should look for to get these other two profitable? Because we kind of talked about like before you buy a practice or if you're already in it, like here's some things to do or looking for these different associates, but like, shoot, I'm already in it. I've got two that are great, two that are bleeding. What do I do on these bleeding ones to make them healthy?
Dana (18:22)
Yeah. And I think it's multi-practice, single practice, whatever it is, it's knowing who you're trying to attract and where are they? And so it, you know,
If you're a pediatric practice, Well, who are the parents that we're targeting? Who are the moms that we're targeting? Where are they in the community? How can we get involved in the things that they're involved in? Whether it is even online Facebook groups or whatever it is. But I think it starts with knowing exactly who you want to walk through your door and where you find them around the location of the practice.
Kiera Dent (18:56)
Mm-hmm. And that's going to help because also pay attention because certain areas will attract different parents. Like there's different demographics. There's different socioeconomics. Like, so just because you're trying to attract the Lululemon mom for one practice, you might be attracting the Walmart Target mom at another location. Both moms are amazing. Both children will be great, but you've got to do like the Lululemon mom.
has very different marketing tactics and what you're going to do and what your giveaways might be in that practice or whatever you strive to do, how you're going to involve in the community. I'm going to be at the Pilates. I'm going to be at the juicer places. I'm going to be at like Elixir. Like that's what I'm doing for my Lululemon mom. I'm going to be like, they're probably at charter schools more than they're at public schools. That's going to be a different mom. And then my moms who are the target Walmart moms, I'm going to be at like the community centers. I'm going to be at the rec centers. I'm going to be at the YMCA. I'm going to be at
The I don't know like the moose lot like whatever those ones are where lots of kids go you guys I don't have kids so clearly I'm not great at this but like that's why I'm not a pediatric dentist either ⁓ But you look at it those moms are gonna be different The moms who are about Walmart are going to want someone who is cost of like so you might throw membership plans in there because they're more for that the lululemon mom's probably going to want more of like the Nutrition and what can I do and what's the highest quality? They're not going for like your lowest like
like give me a deal, but your Walmart and your Target mom probably is. And so again, there's nothing wrong with either mom, but your marketing strategies will probably need to change. So when you're looking at that profit margin or the bleeding practices, is our marketing working and do we need to change it up? Agreed. Do we have enough new patients for that? I also think I'd be looking at my costs. Like do, our staffing right? Cause some of these bleeding practices don't have enough patients that we might need to scale back our team.
at those locations to where maybe we're working two or three days. Like that's a bummer, but we're going to hire more part-time employees rather than full-time employees until we can build up to that. And these are decisions that I just want to highlight. CEOs, this is why we get paid what we get paid because our job is to make these hard decisions. Our job is to say like, we don't have the space for this. So we tell the team, you don't just have to go like whack, like, all right, we're out. It's like, Hey, we've got two months that we can do this and I need to get this patient up to this amount. This is our BAM. This is what we have to produce.
And if we don't, we're going to need to cut back to three days. Like it's just a black and white conversation, but your job as a CEO is to make sure you're not bleeding money and you get those practices profitable. It's also, what can we do? Can I, can I go in and mentor that associate doctor? Can they come and watch me? Can we assist each other? So that way they see how I'm doing these procedures and I can help them get more confident in it. Like what needs to happen to get that production number up? What, what do I need to do for my assisting team there?
So again, it's not, and I think for these multi-practice owners, I think one of my biggest tips is you are not the solution. Pretend you are a puppeteer behind the screen. How do you get all these practices profitable without you being the one? Dana, what are your thoughts about that? Cause that's how I feel, but I'm curious how you feel.
Dana (22:03)
Mm-hmm. No, I agree with you completely and I think that when they have the numbers when they look at those pieces when they can say, okay If I bring in an associate and they produce at this amount it will take me let's say While use pediatric as an example, they produce 300 an hour right or 300 per patient per new patient that comes in and then you can say okay Well, if we do it at that if we do it at the 450 level if we do it closer to the 700 per patient or per hour then
Kiera Dent (22:20)
Mm-hmm.
Dana (22:31)
it lets you see how quickly you can grow, how quickly you can get to the production that you need to cover your expenses, those pieces. And so I just think that you're 100 % right. And knowing the numbers to be able to make those decisions and make those critical cuts or those critical ⁓ avenues for success, it just truly, truly helps.
Kiera Dent (22:55)
And it all comes back to the numbers. And I think when you know your BAM, like a true BAM, we're talking bare ace minimum, we're not going again. It's, it's like, think back to when you started the practice, that's bare ace minimum. Like, what do I need to do to scrap it down? We're talking top ramen versus filet mignon. We'll get to the filets, but we need to start here, grow up to it. Again, choose your heart. For me, it's way harder to be not profitable and cash flowing negatively rather than not hiring as much or cutting my supplies down or
limiting what we're doing or changing my hours up until I can get it there. Now, Dana, let's go into a weird one because a lot of times owners think like, especially like solo practice owners, that if my practice isn't profitable, I'm going to scale it down to like two or three days and then I'm going to go moonlight at another practice. This is like a very hot debate that I have within myself. like, what are your thoughts about that? I have very strong opinions about this, but I'm super curious because
That can seem like a plausible idea, right? Like, let's go work somewhere else. Let's bring in the money to cover this one while I build it up. Give me some thoughts on that if your one practice isn't doing as well.
Dana (24:01)
Yeah. And you know, I can understand the notion of like wanting to do that, because it's like, I'm trying to stop the bleeding, or I'm trying to at least reduce the stress or reduce the feeling of this isn't growing fast enough, or it isn't as successful as they want. But then what you're doing is you're really limiting the potential, you're limiting the potential of the location that you already
have right to then go where you don't have unlimited potential. And so I just feel like to plug the energy and put the effort and put the focus on the practice versus I can understand the want to go find something that is steady and stable when this feels so uncertain or we don't know. But I do feel like you you put your energy and your focus on it and it will
be more profitable than if we went somewhere else where it's capped for sure.
Kiera Dent (24:57)
Mm
hmm. It's fun debate that I really love and I love the perspectives and I think there's no right answer. You've got to figure out what's right for you. But I am very similar to Dana in the sense of I feel when you have an out of a second practice that you moonlight at, ⁓ it doesn't force you to innovate in your space. It's kind of like a bandaid where it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, this can bleed kind of like a second location or a third location that's not as profitable and your first and second ones are just covering up the pain of it.
⁓ to where you're like all right we'll just go and we'll find money in another place versus like no if you have to sit in this place you will figure it out because there's no other option like the boats have been burned we have to figure out what we're going to do and we have to make this work and so that's kind of where i'm like sure i see it but i also think there has to be a date that's in stone of we will end by this time and i know i have to have it profitable
Same thing with your bleeding practices. I think when you put dates on it of like by this date, it has to be profitable and you have to have the self integrity within yourself that you will actually own that that you will work towards that because otherwise you said Dana like it's unlimited potential within your practice. It's also like you're limiting yourself by going to another location and I feel like if another location is easier for you, maybe being a practice owner is not right for you. And I say that with love and respect, like know thyself and be free.
⁓ because I feel like, when you burn the boat to innovate, find it. Shelby and I were talking the other day and we like throughout this goal and Shelby's like, Kiera, I don't even know how we're going to do that. We've never done that before. And I said, I don't know either. We're going to figure it out. Like that's just how you have to operate. Like, I don't know. And so whether it's, need a coach or you need someone to guide you like Dana, like sometimes we're in the thick of it. I have coaches. I can't see. I call Liz all the time. I'm like, Liz.
I need your perspective because I don't know and I'm in it and I need you to be a bird's eye view for me of like, where do I need to navigate through this? Because the option is to go through it. It's not to like jump off board. ⁓ but maybe you need a coach. Maybe you need to like look at the numbers and figure it out. Maybe you need to realize I'm not the solution for it. And if I'm not the solution, then what are my solutions in the, in the coloring box or in my toolbox? Like I think when you remove yourself and you say, because it's not sustainable.
Four practices, one doctor and trying to be the profit producer for all of them. Like that's a hard ask even for a short amount of time. Sure, you can do it, but it's not sustainable. Like you will burn out. And I see these doctors coming in like crisp fried, like ready to give up everything. They have nothing left. They're becoming numb. They're becoming like detached from family members. They don't even get excited for things that used to make them excited because they're literally burnt to a crisp. So it's not a sustainable model. So why are we doing it?
cause we think it's easier. like we think moonlighting is easier versus like, no, let's fix the problem. Let's have a date in stone and let's move on. So Dana, I freaking love these conversations because it helps me see like one, you've got to know your numbers. The numbers will tell you what to do or not to do. Two, I think you've got to be really confident in making the decisions. Three, let's set some dates in stone and make sure that we're actually committed to figuring out the problems by this date. We're not pumping more money into it. ⁓ honestly, like
If I was looking and I had practices that weren't profitable, I think the only areas I would spend money are possibly marketing, possibly, but there's so much free marketing that you can do. So let's not throw money there if we're actually losing money. I would spend money on a great consultant, someone who's been there, done it and done it successfully to move you there because sometimes when we're in the thick of our problems, we can't get out of it. So that is another cost that, but again, I talked to a doctor there on cashflow row right now is what I call it. And I said, all right.
You have two choices. You're either going to rise up or you're going to rise out. Like you take your, like choose your heart. And to me, I'd rather like pay the money and commit and make the decisions and like follow through or turn it over. Like you're in cashflow row. There's no other option for you. So you've got to execute. ⁓ and really, truly like those are the main things that I would spend money on. And then I would look to see how can I cut my expenses and what do I actually have to do and produce to take the stress off to become profitable or at least not losing money.
That's like my only focus for that time and I don't let anything else distract me. It's very hard to put those blinders on, but I think that's also where an accountability coach, a consultant. Yes, I will toot our own horn. Dental A Team is really, really good at this. We do not let you steer away from it. I know you want to talk about marketing and I know you want to talk about like, but we need these supplies. No, that's a distraction from what's really going on. We need to get profitable and that's production, collections and overhead reduction. Like that's all you need to do during those moments.
So let's figure it out and let's find the way and put those blinders on and commit that we will always be profitable. Dana, I'm off my soapbox. Any last thoughts you've got? Because I clearly am passionate about this.
Dana (29:42)
No, I love seeing the passion and you know, it just bleeds through in everything you do and and that's the passion that we have for our clients. And so when we see them in these situations and it's like, let's dig in together. Let's figure it out and put in the work.
Kiera Dent (29:55)
Yeah, Dana, brilliant. love that you have clients like this. love that I have clients like these are the puzzles we love to help you with. So whether you're a solo practitioner or you're a multi owner practitioner or you're thinking multi ownership, whatever it is, like I really do think having a coach hopefully before you get to this spot, if you're already in the spot, rock on, we can still help you. So I think like whether you're in it now, like get the help, like throw up the life raft right now before it's too late. I really, it,
It stresses me out when clients come in and they're on cashflow row. It's like, it's okay. And it's okay. And it doesn't mean you're a failure. It doesn't mean you weren't a bad, like you're a bad business owner or I should have seen this coming. No, you're a business owner. Like this is real life, but like, let's get the help before it gets to be like, really like the water's already up to our neck. Like let's get it. Whereas maybe at like our chest and we're feeling the pressure mount a little bit, but there's still a little bit of breathing room rather than when it's like up to our chin. That becomes a lot harder, but still doable.
⁓ Or like hey, let's be proactive kind of like I mean couples therapy I'm like, let's be proactive and do this before we need the divorce help like let's let's try and save the practices before so if we can help you I love to do practice growth calls with you like no pressure complementary to you We'll just look at the gaps in your practice give you a ton of value if it works for you and we're a great fit Awesome, we'd love to help you If not, you're gonna walk away from that of some awesome tips in value because I want you to see your blind spots And I want you to see the solutions ⁓
regardless. So reach out [email protected] or book a call. Dana, love podcasting with you. Thanks for coming on early today. Thanks for being a great consultant. Thanks for loving our clients and just having that passion for their success. So fun to podcast with you today. Of course, and for all of you listening, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
Dana (31:32)
Thanks for having me.
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Tiff and Britt dive into the nitty-gritty details of turning all that CE energy you have into an implementable system in your practice. They give insight on establishing a point person, training the team, identifying patients, and more.
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Transcript:
The Dental A Team (00:01)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. Thank you for being back here with me and I have Miss Brittany Stone. What is it? No BS Brit. Miss BS Brit. I don't remember what Carrie calls you. This is one of them, right? One of them. But also soon to be Grand Canyon champion. If you didn't listen to our case acceptance one, go listen and hopefully soon we will have some results from Brit killing it. Yeah, you will be a survivor.
Britt (00:10)
What fun of them!
Winner survivor. One of the two. At least one.
The Dental A Team (00:29)
but then I wanna know how much you sleep on Saturday when you're done. So that'll be the big question. Exactly, yeah, how long does it take for you to get back on the bike once you're done? But thank you for being here with us today, Britt. I think we've gotten, I love podcasting with you, your hygiene brain, like Dana's hygiene brain, you guys just kind of come at it from a different angle. I know the rest of us all have dental assisting backgrounds and.
Britt (00:32)
Yeah, like that. I if I can reach my legs or not.
The Dental A Team (00:55)
you know, hygiene assisting, but that hygienist brain just shares a different section. ⁓ And I think you do really well relating with the doctors and kind of that support team space like we spoke to on the case acceptance one. So I'm excited for today, Brett. Thank you for being here. ⁓ You've got the Grand Canyon, but like, gosh, what else is what else is new and exciting? You just went to one of our favorite Mexican restaurants not too long ago. So that's true.
Britt (01:21)
conferences, I went to PNDC, that
was a good time. Luckily it was gorgeous weather there. mean, podcasting today is special. I wear my tooth earrings for us today since we're podcasting, know, just lots of fun things.
The Dental A Team (01:35)
Getting a little fancy. I like it. And you guys, so you just went to that conference, you went to the Arizona Dental Convention that was in March, right? I think that one's always March for like the last, I don't know, 50 years. It's always been in March. ⁓ And then you just went to the other one and then you're heading out again in a couple weeks to dentist advisors. Yeah.
Britt (01:55)
Yeah, Dentist Money Summit
is by Dentist Advisors, which will be in gorgeous Park City, Utah. So, you know, it's a rough life over here.
The Dental A Team (02:01)
Yeah, I
know, right? And actually it's perfect timing because they, I think we've all like our, our seasons were a little bit off this year. So we are barely getting hot, which normally we're at like 110 already, um, which has been fantastic in Arizona, but that meant that Nevada and, um, Salt Lake area, both Reno and Salt Lake area have had snow longer. So I think you're going to hit Salt Lake for Dentist Money Summit right as the like peak.
summer season starts. So you're gonna get some beautiful weather and I'm a little jealous. I will be in California or something like that. But anyways, somewhere.
Britt (02:36)
somewhere else. It'll be great.
And my second, my nephew, second of my nieces and nephews graduate. So I won't go to graduation, but I'll get to go. I'm like, I'll be coming like a couple weeks later to see you. So I'll go get to see them while I'm up there too.
The Dental A Team (02:50)
Okay.
Okay, good, good. I was like, wait a second, how do we get you there? That's good.
Britt (02:55)
I'm not fighting the crowd up there for graduation,
which he's like, mom, everybody graduates. I'm like, no, it's still a big deal. We'll just celebrate when I come see you on my own instead of along with everybody else.
The Dental A Team (03:06)
gosh,
that's funny. I was just talking over the weekend, we had a graduation party that we had to drop in on yesterday. So was like, gosh, I'm gonna have to, which is, I don't like thinking about it, but I have to start thinking about it that Brody's in a year. So was like, Aaron's like, is he gonna want a party? And he, said, no, he's gonna be the kid that's like, everybody graduates. It's fine. Like it's no big deal. But it is a big deal. same, Exactly.
Britt (03:26)
But they still want it, even though you know it, even though they're like, they're
disappointed, it's like, oh, come on. But like, they want it.
The Dental A Team (03:33)
Exactly. It's like my birthday where I was like, it's fine. Like just a dinner, but like, had they not done a big deal for my 40th, I probably would have, you know, been in shambles. So when it comes, he's surely going to want it, but graduation season is upon us and it's wild that we are in the space of life that we're experiencing it with them. think that's crazy. And anyways, you've got some fun travels. if you guys aren't heading CE events, make sure that you do and make sure that you check out.
a lot of RCE events. So if you're a listener, if you're a client, whatever, you're a listener and a client, like whatever you guys want, we have, what is it? Every third Wednesday, we have a CE webinar. We've got a really cool webinar coming up in August that we do. ⁓ Every year the content shifts and changes, but.
Britt (04:20)
to like check out our Instagram if you don't follow us. If I'm there, come find me. Let me know, message us. I got at PNUC to see a few clients which is really fun. It's always nice when we get to meet up in person. So, whether you're a client or just a listener, come find me.
The Dental A Team (04:22)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah,
especially in Brits position because you have a handful of your own clients, but you oversee a lot of the company. So you know all of the client names, but you don't get to see them and meet them. So I know I have a few clients that are asking if I was going to be there and I'm not. I was like, you got to go find, seek out Brit, like go meet Brit. So definitely, definitely follow the Instagram, make sure that you reach out to Brit.
If you're there, look for her, say hello, take a little picture with her, and then make sure you're hitting those CEs and make sure you're hitting all the free ones, you guys. We put out a ton of free CE and why not? Because I know you need to stack those hygienists and doctors. You guys need to stack those CE credits. So do it for free wherever you can. And then, like I tell one of my prized clients, set up a CE bucket so that you're saving money for the CE that's not free. And on that note...
I think, ⁓ we were actually just talking and I think it's funny because I do think this was like super high thing and right now it's like, I think it's kind of stabilized. It's not quite as sought after as heavily as it was, but for the clients that are doing it or still trying to implement it, there are still some really great CE avenues out there. Today we wanted to talk a little bit on the sleep apnea avenue, systems wise, not to sleep apnea. That's not our genre. You can go take CE for that, Britt can probably tell you a ton.
medically, but you know, that's not our genre, but our genre, our space, our niche is the systems behind it. And so on the note of CE and implementing, do think even if you're not doing sleep apnea, or you're not considering sleep apnea, a lot of what we talk about today is copy pasteable, like systems are systems, you guys, and we we overcomplicate it in life. And what we say for one thing can easily be duplicated and slightly altered for something else. So if there's CE that you're doing, which doctors we love you.
so much. And when you go to CE, you come back just like ecstatic. And if you didn't take team with you, you're the only one. And it's so hard sometimes to get that generating. Typically, it's that there's not, it's just all a fun idea. There's not a really good system behind it to get that momentum. So taking these systems, even what we talked about for sleep apnea, whatever CE you do, apply it to that. And like you said with the sleep apnea, if they're not taking team members, like it can be really hard to implement. And that's a space too.
if you can bring team members to any of that CE or sign them up for the webinar and get them included in it, I think that's a great space too. anyhow, sleep apnea side and system side, Britt, you've worked out the hygienist. So I know that this is some of the stuff like the questionnaire style and that stuff. Like what do you see and what you've actually helped practices implement the systems for sleep apnea. So what do you see as?
Britt (07:10)
Thank
The Dental A Team (07:24)
the biggest ticket items of implementing sleep apnea or just CE style in general that is easy, that's duplicatable like that.
Britt (07:34)
And I think sleep and my yo that's coming in pretty strong for a lot of people too. I think you can similar areas when it comes to looking to implement something successfully. I think that you would look for. So if you're doing one or the other, ⁓ number one, I think is making sure that our team knows what it is. Like Tiff said, doc, you can go to a CE and you get all excited and you understand all the things behind it to see all the dots connect and why this is so important.
because it is, but the team often is behind. So whenever you're looking to do something, you might just take a course as like an exploratory, right? And then you're like, no, this is something I really want to do. When you start to get into that phase of like, no, I really want to work on implementing this. I want you to look for things that are going to help train your team because your team is going to be needing to have 90 % of these conversations with patients and you're going to
Goal is for you not to have all of the conversations with all of the patients. The goal is for the team to be able to help support you, identify patients and start to educate patients and warm them up to the idea. Because just like for your team, it's kind of a newer thing or a different thing or something they don't know all the details about, it doesn't come easily to them. Patients even more so. So that's why our team needs to be really confident in knowing what it is, the reasons why, and being able to talk about it.
I think is number one place to start. Along with that, would say have someone call it your champion, call it your lead of that thing, whatever title you want to give them of someone who is going to be that person who is going to make sure the team has all the things. We educate the team on all the things and they're going to be the one to really ⁓ kind of take point on implementation and keeping this going and getting it to where it becomes a program that's ingrained within our practice.
we need someone to be that person. So from the get-go, education, someone who's gonna be a point person before we even start on implementing anything with our patients. So that would be my number one thing, Tiff, to start with is education and identify as someone who's gonna be the point person, because they're gonna start thinking of implementation, what are all the things we need in our practice to get this program going.
The Dental A Team (09:54)
Yeah, and even like ortho, I have like the same I'm thinking the same thought process because anything that you're trying to grow that doesn't you don't put attention on isn't going to grow. So to your champion conversation there, whether it's sleep, my ortho implants, like anything that's not crowns, fillings, bridges, you know, and even I do have a lot of practices that even do it for crowns, whatever that champion making sure there's a
Britt (09:57)
Hmm. Yeah.
The Dental A Team (10:22)
a job description. And I love that you said the education piece because that I think even when I've seen practices implement the champion space, it's still the education piece falls back to the doctor. But putting that I think that's brilliant putting that on the champion of scheduling out the lunch and learns making sure that they're doing the role playing with the with the team and that they're having these meetings with the team on the education and the why behind it, so that they can take that information and
and tackle it with the patients. And then it made me think too, like KPI is their key performance indicator. So that champion is responsible for seeing, how many times, how many patients do we need to talk to about this to get our case acceptance where we want it or to get that many cases? I know like for ortho, we might do, we want five starts this month or 10 starts this month. So then you look at how many patients do we need to talk to about ortho in order to get.
that because your case acceptance might be like 25%. So you're doing the math for that. then, Brett, I'm thinking that champion is then responsible for collecting the data from the team on how many patients do we talk to, how many patients signed up, and kind of championing all of the results and then looking at how do I control and manipulate the results based on the education implementations, all of those pieces.
Britt (11:46)
agreed and that's I think probably you Tiff right with clients. Like you said, the new thing, right? Name the new thing that we're doing within the office and you know, they want to do more of that thing and I'm like, alright, well, what's going on? Why aren't we even getting it presented to patients? What's happening? Well, we're just not talking about it, right? Like it really comes back to that. That's one of the biggest hurdles to get over is just talking about it and making sure patients know what it is.
The Dental A Team (12:05)
Yeah.
Britt (12:16)
what benefit it would be to them if they're a candidate, if this is something that they need. So that's why I say, make sure we've got that foundation first. And then we go into, okay, we've got a team more comfortable talking about it. How do we identify opportunities with patients? And then that's where we move into what kind of screening do we want for this specific treatment for sleep apnea? Then all right, what kind of screening do we wanna incorporate?
across the board. So it's not reliant on a human thinking, this one would be a candidate. Like, no, what are you screening to where we know when these things are checked or we get this answer to this question, they are someone then that we are going to talk to about a sleep appliance or sleep apnea, we're working on getting them tested, whatever it may be.
The Dental A Team (13:01)
Yeah. And within that, asking those leading questions so that the patient starts thinking, because I think like back to, I think a lot of people do ortho. So back to ortho, you come in and you're hot and heavy. Like I got to get, I'm getting ortho cases and the patient has not had any like leading questions to make them start thinking that there's a problem or a solution needed for a problem. And then you come in and you're like, have you ever thought about ortho? And they're like, no, I haven't.
Right? Because we didn't make them think about ortho kind of the same. Like, do you, you know, ⁓ I hear you might be a snorer, right? Or just coming in and being like, Hey, you've got these weird scallops on your tongue and I think you might need this. And then we just go on this tangent of sleep apnea and they're like, I have no issue sleeping. But if we start asking those leading questions of, do you find yourself tired in the middle of the day? does your partner, you know, do you wake your partner up a lot? Do you toss and turn a lot?
night? Like, are you getting up to use the restroom a lot at night? Like different things that are preheating and leading into there might be something going on there, I think is a space that we kind of overlook sometimes. And we just jump into this is the solution. And it kind of gets lost in translation. And then right on to like layering on top of that, you've got your questionnaire, you've got your team, they're ready to go. You've got all of these pieces.
there, you know what your lead and lag measures are, then you set like identifying the patients, we're identifying the patients and then that layer, like it never stops, there's always the next layer. And that next layer is okay, if we can identify the patients, now we get to track and see, are we getting those patients? So then we say, okay, well, most of my patient base is 18 to 26 years old.
might not be getting like that might not be the patient base you need for sleep apnea or for implants or whatever it is that you want to specialize in. then you've got to look and see, do I need to determine something different in my patient avatar to fit what I'm trying to implement what I'm trying to get because there's only so much you can do with the patients that you're getting in. So it just like keeps layering but comes down to I love like step one it feels like Brit from what you're saying is
Find that champion and make sure that champion is thoroughly educated in what their job is and what the procedure is so then they can, step two, help you to train the team, get the team on board, figure out the why. Step three, find the patients. Step four, how do we get more of those patients?
Britt (15:42)
Yeah, which I think then plays into marketing, right? Marketing at the end of the day is the number of times of exposure. So, right, when it comes down to it, then what are we putting out there? What do we have around our office? What, even if it's peripherally, are our patients seeing to know that this is a thing and that it exists? Because then it won't be as much of a surprise to them when we have a conversation or they're like, well, why aren't you know, I don't even know what that is. They at least, oh, I've seen XYZ about that.
thing in your office or on the TV out in the waiting room, whatever it may be, to start warming them up to it as well. And then depending on how much you want to grow that and be known for that thing, mean, Tiff is the marketing queen. Then there's like a lot more marketing that goes behind it.
The Dental A Team (16:29)
Yeah, I do love marketing. don't know why, but I really do. ⁓ But you're making me think of, because it's subliminal. I think that's why I love it. Because it's like, what can I do to make someone think this way, right? Like I love, I love the way the brain works. I love communication. That's why. So I'm thinking as you're speaking to that, like you're saying like have it off to the side and have it on a TV like 100 % because most of the time we're just being again, preheated.
to the possibility of needing something. So if you think of like a Doritos commercial, right? Like they don't just in the beginning come out with the, like they're not like Doritos, right? It's like, hey, we're grabbing some Doritos out of a chip bowl and all of the like tortilla chips, the unnamed tortilla chips over there is full, but the Doritos are like empty, but we're having conversation, we're having fun, we're in a party because now you're thinking about Doritos associated to fun. So that's how marketing works. It's like little snippets of
this thing and how it's going to benefit your life. Not just like, hey, have some Doritos. Because if somebody came by and they're like, hey, Doritos are amazing, have Doritos. They're just, they're so tasty, you're gonna love them. You're like, I'm okay actually, like, I don't need a Dorito, right? But if they're like, hey, like, let's have fun, let's have a party, let's get people talking, it's gonna be so amazing and you can have these Doritos over here that's gonna, everybody's gonna stand around the bowl and they're gonna socialize.
then you're like, yeah, let me try these Doritos. So it's kind of that same thing. Like how is this thing, this sleep apnea, this ortho, this Botox, these injectors, the fillables, how is this going to benefit the patient's life and speak to the benefits and the problem, not the solution? Because being like, Botox, Botox, Botox, Botox, right? Like Botox is cool, but like why do I want Botox? Because I wanna look 30 when I'm 45.
That's why I Botox. And when do I need to start? When I'm 28. Like, how do we get this subliminal messaging into different aspects of our practice and our speaking? And then what it also does is gets your team speaking that language too, because they're constantly seeing it. So they're constantly being reminded. And as you guys are checking on...
Britt (18:23)
Perfect.
The Dental A Team (18:44)
KPI is and how is it working and how is it growing? We're constantly coming back to this space that you're trying to implement and grow. Caveat of one at a time. Botox and color is fine. Sleep apnea.
Britt (18:56)
I was thinking the same exact thing.
The Dental A Team (19:01)
you can't come home and be like we're doing sleep apnea we're gonna ramp up our ortho and guess what guys I need five more implants and it's like I don't know which one to focus on so one major change at a time and let it sit let it ruminate and see how it goes I like six months at least for like a big implementation like that ⁓ but
Britt (19:22)
Be
good at that thing, right? I think that's when we do too much at once. You and your team, right? And the bigger the team, the more people you're trying to move. You're not gonna get good at it. And then let's be honest, if I'm not good at it, I'm not gonna do it as much. Let's just welcome to human nature again. Like it's a harder thing to do. It takes more effort. But if we focus on one and that one thing we get really good at and it becomes really easy, then that will stick and then we can move on to the next thing.
The Dental A Team (19:52)
Yep. Yep. And always come back again to everything else too, because I've had clients that I've done, you know, let's focus in on implants. we're getting we're talking about it this many times, we're getting this many, we're looking for this many, you know, whatever all the pieces so
we're speaking to implants, we get really good at that. And they're like, cool, like, I want to do more ortho. It's like, okay, well, now we're laying on ortho. But then they're like, hey, wait, I haven't done an implant. I'm like, well, why? Because you lost focus on the implants, because you're so focused on the ortho. So you've got to just layer it in there and be like, on top of like being good at this, we also need to become good at this. So don't lose sight of it or stop tracking the one because you layered on something else, you literally just layering another level to it. And now you're doing both because
honestly, just those two, right? Implants and ortho go hand in hand, you know, do ortho before you place the implants or do ortho so that you can place an implant because the space is too small. Like how are you, how can your team help layer those together and support you in getting those things done? And firstly, Baphne, it's exactly the same. How can your team support you in getting it done? Because you've got what? 1500 to 3000 patients. You've got a team of five to
25 30 you cannot do it all you've got to have at least one champion who is helping you and when you do have those spaces to Britt's point of not doing too many and losing sight if you have a champion of each your phone you they are focused on that thing and so they're ensuring their thing their needle is moving so you've got your
champion of sleep apnea that's like, hey guys, nope, we lost focus, don't forget. And you got your champion of ortho that's like, cool, I've got my metrics over here and making sure that those are staying in line.
Britt (21:41)
And I think once you start doing some cases, especially things where there's more of a knowledge gap, even in Visalign, right? Make sure you're getting results. So like you're getting testimonials, you're getting pictures at the end. Whenever there's a big investment, people want to know like what that means for them. Like what can that be for me? And so that's where
Having something to look at to see before and after and having testimonials for people goes a long ways, especially on things where there's more of a knowledge gap like sleep apnea. Because those patients are gonna really highlight what is important to them, which then is gonna be most likely what's important to all of your people that are in their same seat.
The Dental A Team (22:22)
Yeah, I love it. love it. one, step one, figure out what you're going to do. If it's sleep apnea, it's sleep apnea. One thing, choose the one that you're gonna focus on right now. Step two, figure out what your champion's position looks like or lead or whatever you wanna call it. Quarterback, I don't care what you call it. That position, what's that job description? What are the metrics? Like what does that person need to do? So step one, figure out what you're gonna do. Step two, find your champion.
Britt (22:26)
One thing, one thing.
The Dental A Team (22:52)
figure out what that champion's gonna do. Step three, train your team. Step four, do the thing and track the results every time. I think really easy duplicatable systems that we tagged here as like Sleepapnea, Myo, whatever you wanna focus it on, but literally this system can be duplicated for any major change you're trying to make in procedures within your practice. And then I think the last layer is
within your metrics, watch your marketing and figure out what needs to shift and change there. Brit, brilliant. Brilliant Brit. That's the one. Brilliant Brit. Brilliant Brit.
Britt (23:27)
That's the one I like
more. That's the better one.
The Dental A Team (23:32)
one
I'm gonna use. Brilliant Brit. ⁓ thank you or brainy Brit right but anyways thank you ⁓ for being here with me today for doing this. I knew ⁓ with the implementations you've done before with Sleep Apnea and Mayo you've worked with the you've worked with that before so I knew that you would have some great ideas so thank you so much for being here. I can't wait to hear from you on Saturday that you survived the Grand Canyon Rim to Rim happily and you're still smiling and you're just sleeping.
Britt (24:02)
Maybe I'll stream my before and after. We'll see. Maybe even with Dental A Team. We'll see. It depends on how bad it is afterwards.
The Dental A Team (24:08)
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. You can at least share with me and then we can decide. everyone, go find your thing. What's your one thing right now? What are you going to put? This is something I've been living by. You guys, we can talk about the book. can [email protected] and ask me for it. But what are you putting a 10x effort into? What's your 10x problem that you're putting 10x effort into? Choose that thing. Focus there. Go do it. Duplicate.
create a system that can be duplicated and have so much fun doing it. Again, if you need help with it, you have questions, you want recommendations, [email protected]. We are all here to help. We all help answer those questions. So reach out and as always drop us a five star review below. We love to hear that this was implementable for you, that it was helpful and any ideas you guys have for future ones, we're always open to those. So Britt, thank you for being here. Listeners, thank you for being here and we'll catch you next time.
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Kiera shares a key secret from the most recent Dental A-Team Summit: common traits of highest-performing and happiest practices.
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Transcript
Kiera Dent (00:01)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I am so excited to chat with you. I hope that you're just having an incredible day. I hope you're having an incredible life. I hope you remember that honestly, we are so blessed to be in dentistry. We are so blessed to live the lives that we do. You are making huge changes and I hope that you're always so proud of yourself and that you're remembering that what you're doing is truly changing lives. Today I wanted to pop on and I wanted to talk real quick about...
something that we did at our virtual summit in April. And I hope you were able to attend. you weren't, your calendars for next year. We are having it on April 24th, 2026. So mark your calendars now, plan to be there. I would love, love, love to see you there. Because this year our topic was on unlocking extraordinary leadership and profitability. And I think those things go hand in hand. And one of the quotes that we had in there was, extraordinary doesn't mean perfect.
And Simon Sinek has said, there is no such thing as a perfect leader, only one who learns, adapts and grows with their team. And I really, really loved this because we went through an entire model of what's extraordinary leadership, what's the extraordinary leadership formula. And then at the end, we actually went through this amazing thing of common themes of practices. And so what our team did is we actually started looking at all of the dental offices that we've consulted, that we've been a part of, that we've worked with over the years. And we started looking to see
What are maybe some of the common themes of awesome practices that have amazing leadership and practices who maybe have not so good of leadership? And so I thought today it would actually be really fun to hop on the podcast. And for those of who attended summit amazing, this is a nice recap for you. Hopefully to dive it in, there are no recordings of summit. So I thought this would be a fun thing to bring back to the table for you and something I really loved. And I thought about it so much. And also for those of you who might not have been able to attend
to help you start thinking because I found that when I can figure out what are the patterns, like Tony Robbins says, success leaves clues. And I think about this often of, okay, what are the clues of the successful practices? What are the clues of the offices that are doing things differently? What are the clues of the offices that struggle constantly versus the offices that do really well? And one thing that is always in common is there's always an amazing leader, always. They're always watching their numbers. So they make their decisions based on their numbers.
And the third thing is that they have these common themes. So our team actually went through and I remember asking our team, said, okay, let's look at these leaders. Let's look to see what are the themes? What are the pieces? are, like, what is it? And we picked out a couple of offices. We picked out some of these different things and we said, like, okay, here's these awesome offices. What do they have in common? What are the things that they're doing consistently? And let's see if we could build this like,
common theme. ⁓ let's go through it. And it was really a message. Amazing because when we were in summit, we had people I was like, okay, this isn't you. This is other practices, of course. But let's think of like, what are some of the not so good attributes of leadership? What do you think? Of course, this is not you. This is someone else. But what is it for you that that maybe would be like the not so good leadership again, and these are these are offices that could be doing great.
financially. But what I usually find are the great leaders are always the more successful and more profitable practices. So the not so good what they have, what they tend to have ⁓ is they don't trust their office manager or their leadership team. I'm always here for trust and verify, but to truly trust your office manager and to let them lead and to have them as a partner in the business and to hold them to that high level. They're also usually sometimes poor clinicians. ⁓ Again, I'm not a dentist. I'm not here for it.
But was interesting of like a lot of the practices that we see struggling, was the dentistry is actually not so good. And I feel like that kind of ⁓ like truly kind of revolves and it might reflect some possible pieces. So for that, just know, again, these are not all, but we started just looking at like, what were some of the common themes? They were poor leaders. So there's team turnover constantly. So they weren't having the conversations. They were trying to be people pleasers. They were trying to dance around the hard conversations.
⁓ Maybe we're talking bad about other team members. They were gossiping. But that was something, there was a team turnover constantly and people couldn't figure it out. I know there's one office that I can remember. Don't worry, I'll mash it up so you don't know who I'm going to talk about. ⁓ And they were just rude. They were constantly belittling their team. They were constantly putting them down. They were constantly just mean. And so on that, just realizing there was team turnover. Now team turnover can also be because you're not transparent.
not having conversations, it does not mean that you're people pleasing. They didn't implement strategies. They would take a lot of notes. They'd go to a lot of CE, but they didn't, they never implement. So it's just like we're, listening, listening, but we don't actually implement. We don't actually execute. Now remember these are the not so good leaders. Okay. They were highly driven by emotions. So emotions guide. They, I know when I first started, I was very turbulent as a leader and I was very driven by emotions rather than
What's ultimately in the best interest of the business? ⁓ I constantly ask that question. Like, I know I want to take care of you and I'd love to have you be a part of us. But the reality is I've got to drive this business by logic while having a heart and having, ⁓ definitely having some, some love that way too. They also don't look at their numbers. They don't look at their results. So not tracking numbers. They have no clue. It's like they are an ostrich in the sand. They don't want to look at them. They have no idea where their numbers are. When I asked like, how are you doing? It's, it's always like,
We don't really know. We just love to live in La La Land. ⁓ They do a lot of CE, but never implement similar to they don't implement strategies, especially in coaching clients. ⁓ They don't implement. They're like, they always have an excuse. So I think like lots and lots and lots of excuses is another sign of the not so good leaders that we see as common themes. Again, there's like variables, there's other things, but these were common themes of practices that when we meet them, we know that they're probably going to fail. These are common themes.
They have lots of coaches, but they don't trust and they don't execute. So they'll listen, they hire the coaches, they do the things, but they don't actually trust and they don't execute. So the coaches will talk to the team, they'll give them the strategies and they'll be like, yeah, yeah, we're not going to do that. Or, nope, I'm not going to execute that. Or they just don't follow through. They have no integrity on their word. They're half in on everything. So it's kind of like, yeah, we kind of do that. We kind of do this. We kind of do that. Just fully do it. Why not?
⁓ They want to pay to fix the problems with no self-realization identification that they might be the issue. So things like ego, fear, no accountability, everyone else is the problem. I see this often, they blame, they talk about like, my gosh, this person's so terrible or my gosh, like you'll never believe what happened to me. There's always an excuse for why they don't have the life that they wanna have or the practice that they want. So I'm super curious, like as you listen to that list, like I said, like.
⁓ This is a zone where honest to goodness, what are the not so good leaders and do you maybe have any of those attributes? Now let's flip the good side, all right? So these are, again, there's so many things I could have pulled out, but these are the ones that I looked at and I was like, my gosh, these are consistent themes of great leaders. So they're great implementers. They execute, they put things into play and they don't fall off. So they truly implement and they stick. They allow their teams to be free. ⁓ It's interesting. They...
They give them the parameters, they give them the vision, and then they allow the teams to create. They say, all right, here's the parameters of what we are as a culture. Now go create and be free. They're great at decision-making. They don't sit on it. They think about it. They use their numbers and they execute, which leads to the next one is they execute. They make the decision. They follow through. They move forward. If we tell them to do something, they get it done. They follow through on what they say. They own their word. They're consistent. They roll with the punches. It's not high. It's not low. It's just they roll right through.
They have long-term teams. These teams stay with them. They take care of their teams, but they're also honest with their teams and very much holding them to a high level and high standards. The good also live by high standards. They don't tolerate mediocrity. They truly don't. It's just, they cut it out. They move on and they are very, very methodical in their decisions. They make their decisions based on the numbers. They're great visionaries. They see where they want to go and they can truly inspire and rally a team on actual things that are going to happen rather than just theories and ideas.
And they know what they're working towards and they don't get distracted. They truly have these blinders. I feel like so many of them have discipline. So as like who they are, most of them all work out consistently. They have a strong workout routine. They are physically fit. They have date nights with their spouses or their significant others. They make time for their kids. They're very good with their time and time management. They prioritize. ⁓ They delegate really well. They focus on what's the most important for them. But it's interesting as you look at the difference between the two lists.
My question is, which list are you on more so? If I was Santa Claus and it's the naughty and nice list, as you go back and maybe it'd be worthwhile to stop and push pause on this podcast, it's a very short, concise podcast for you today, ⁓ go back and check off of like, how am I doing on this? Is this a trait of mine or is it not a trait of mine? Because the reality is I want you to be an incredible leader. I want you to be incredible human. I want you to truly be so.
such great leaders to be able to have the practice of your dreams and the life of your dreams. And it really does boil down to leaders. And so again, it was such a fun little thing. I thought I'd take like just a little snippet out of summit for you of the not so good and the good leadership. And for you, let's add more to the good. And if you need help with that, this is oftentimes where an outside person can help you see where are my gaps as a leader? Where can I grow? Where can I rise? How can I have these conversations? How can I nip things in the bud faster? How can I stay consistent to this?
You guys, wasn't a consistent human when I started and I had to put things into place to help me be consistent. It's muscle skills to be a great leader. It's not born into you. And so if we can help you reach out, [email protected], you guys truly flex those leadership muscles, commit to being that incredibly great leader for your practice. Your practice needs you, your team needs you, your patients need you. This is your time and you need you. So rise up, be that amazing leader. And if we can help reach out, hello, at the dental...
[email protected] as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.
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Tiff and Britt explain the right way to achieve case acceptance — without over-complicating or over-simplifying. Getting this down will increase trust among team members and help keep your schedules on track.
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Transcript:
The Dental A Team (00:01)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. I am so excited to be here today. I have Miss Brittany Stone. I pull her in every now and again as often as I can to do recordings with me. And I love, love, love nothing more than having Britt here. I love having all of the consultants in a rotation, but Britt is, you know, a special OG podcaster.
She has been with me since the beginning of time on these podcasts, it feels like. So, Britt, thank you so much for being here today. How are you? It is a beautiful Monday morning for us. I'm actually a little warm. It's getting hotter in Phoenix again, but Britt, how are you today?
Britt (00:40)
I'm doing good. I mean, it's the time of year where shade is beautiful, right? Like it makes a big difference. And right now in the shade, it is still very nice. It's just the direct sunlight that's a little bit warmer. So it is a gorgeous day outside and I will still definitely go get out on a ride later today. So but happy to be here. It's always fun. I feel like we said it before like these are times like geek out together. So it's like hangout time, but we get everybody else to come along with us and listen to the fun things we chat
The Dental A Team (00:43)
Yes.
fair.
That's so true. I do love bringing them on rides. I always make Dana talk about like workout apparel and have something for me to do.
Britt (01:12)
Dana's like the
deaf queen. need something like Dana's got whatever it is that you need.
The Dental A Team (01:20)
know,
I know I love it. So I just pick and choose like what do I need from who's on who's on with me today and what can I gather from them and you are my outdoors like Dana's outdoors too, but she's my apparel and my protein. You're my like outdoors you're doing Grand Canyon this weekend, I was supposed to be doing it next weekend. I don't think I am but you are doing it Friday. So in just a couple days, are you prepped and ready? I don't know that there's every day that anyone says yes, I'm ready. But are you prepped and ready?
for the Grand Canyon Rim to Rim, guys. She is hiking from one rim of the canyon to the other rim of the canyon. It's a big deal.
Britt (01:54)
in one day.
yeah, it's four days away and I'm as ready as I'm gonna be. Like at this point, like let's go.
The Dental A Team (02:01)
Yeah.
I agree. agree. I'm near doing it in one day, which we had planned on doing as well. I was calculating the other day based on like how our hike was going what I felt like our timing was going to be. And I calculated with the addition of the extra like two ish miles because the bridge is closed. ⁓ I was thinking like a good 20 minute a mile pace obviously would get you to like 10 hours but then that's no breaks. That's a freaking hauling pace.
Britt (02:20)
Correct?
The Dental A Team (02:31)
So I thought for us it was gonna probably be like 12 to 13 hours. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah.
Britt (02:37)
Yeah, and I have to remind myself, like it's one of those things. I'm a power through girly for most things, but this is a marathon, not a sprint. And so from things I've read, they're like, take a break every hour, eat something every hour, make sure you're hydrating. So I'm gonna try to do that. And they say, get down the canyon in the first like third of whatever time you're planning and it's gonna take you like double that time to get out. So that's fun.
The Dental A Team (03:05)
good. Good. That's what I was thinking too. Like, take your time. That's what we were saying when we checked our pace, did like almost we did nine and a half, 10 miles, and kept like a 20 to 25 minute pace and it was fine. But it was like, that's a third of what we are going to be doing. so making sure that was to get down. So that was, you know, get down in that amount of time.
Britt (03:08)
Yeah.
The Dental A Team (03:26)
But I'm excited for you. can't wait to hear about it. You're to have to post pictures, send them to our marketing team so that we can see a Duna-Lay team out on the rim to rim. It's something that our team has been actually talking about for a couple of years now. So Britt's going to be the first one to overcome that bucket list item for us and test it out. So she's our test queen.
Britt (03:44)
We'll see if
I go do it with you again when someone else wants to go do it or if it's like, I did that once, I'm good.
The Dental A Team (03:51)
Yeah, yeah, well, hopefully it's I'll do it with you again, because
it sounds like my Grand Canyon partner is you know, he's younger than me, but he's an old man and is falling apart. So he may not be able to do it. So you might have to do it with me later. So you just keep me posted. That's true. That's true. That's true.
Britt (04:04)
You and I can do it, and Damon will crush us all. We know this, but we can always go and do it. So yes, I will
keep you posted. I will take pictures. I know no matter what, it'll be gorgeous, and that's what it's all about.
The Dental A Team (04:15)
Yeah, good. I'm excited for it. And I just, I'm so impressed. So super cool. I can't wait to see pictures and everyone who's listening, you're welcome for the adventure there and keep your eyes peeled. If you don't know what the Grand Canyon Rim to Rim is, go look it up because you need to understand what she's doing. It's a big deal. ⁓ and Erin, it's a fee. And Erin keeps reminding me because, and I grew up in Arizona. And so I think that we've talked about this before. We think like,
Britt (04:34)
It's a scene.
The Dental A Team (04:43)
to the Grand Canyon. It's a giant hole in the ground. It's been there forever. I grew up here. It's not a big deal. And Aaron's like from Oregon. He's like, it's a one like it's one of the wonders of the world. And so we definitely take it for granted. So I'm sure a lot of listeners here like you guys are crazy, which actually that I was talking to him about this on Saturday while we were hiking and I'm like, gosh, I know I take this for granted. But I said, you know what, actually, it's kind of like in dentistry, when we're diagnosing and we're just like, you need this and we're using all this terminology that
us is so like second nature. It's so just ingrained in us and it makes sense. But to the other people, it doesn't. And I correlated that thought process of like, for me, the Grand Canyon is something that has and will always be there. And it's just like a part of my life. I take it for granted because I grew up in Arizona. I'm like, I've never even really spent time there because I'm like, Matt's there. I'll do it someday.
Britt (05:38)
I've it. I've seen it.
The Dental A Team (05:40)
And he's like, people come from out of the country to see the Grand Canyon. To me, that's freaking wild. But that's the difference, right? In communication, even, and understanding. And I think it flows that idea, that mindset of like, what are we taking for granted? What are we skimming past because it's natural for us or it's always there. And I think we skim past a lot of times, relationship building or ⁓
focusing on like the problem when we're treatment planning and jumping to the just the solution and speaking in words and terminology maybe that people don't necessarily like relate to and that relating piece is massive and it's kind of that same we all have spaces of life that we just take for granted and we skim past like the Grand Canyon and 7th wonder of the freaking world right it's that communication space and I think ⁓ on this Grand Canyon topic here
Britt (06:29)
you
The Dental A Team (06:36)
your case acceptance directly correlates. And I'm sure Erin was like, this is super cool. We're talking dentistry on our hike. I'm talking about the grand canyon. But it's so true. And Brett, have you seen that? I know you consult a lot of practices too. And have you seen that too, where it's like, gosh, we're just, and you've been a hygienist actually, right? So just speaking to the like solution, like, you need a crown, you need a bridge, you need an implant, you need full mouth reconstruction. And patients are like glazed over like, cool, really, really
Britt (06:42)
Yeah.
The Dental A Team (07:05)
diving into that, Britt, what have you seen within that and how do we get back to like basics on how to simplify case acceptance increasing because we do overcomplicate it in my opinion.
Britt (07:18)
I agree, we overcomplicate it, but we also oversimplify at the same time. I think when it comes to talking to patients about things, because these are things that are, we don't even have to think about them. We are around all day long, this is what we're trained to do, so identifying it, knowing it's important, they're just things that come so easy to us, kind of like the Grand Canyon thing that I'm like, yeah, I've seen it a couple times, but you know, it's fine. ⁓
The Dental A Team (07:23)
Yeah.
there.
Britt (07:46)
But with patients, think often what we'll do is we will like gloss over parts of it to where, and we think that we can say like a couple words and like, you need this. And they're going to be like, yeah, absolutely. I need that. And they're going to make sure it gets done because in our brain it makes complete sense that that's what needs to happen. And I like to try to remind people when it comes to how we present treatment.
ultimately getting patients to the point of doing their treatment. Like that is truly where we are playing the advocate for that patient. And so in it, like, yes, it'll be thrown around that it sells all of these different things, but really it's how can I explain it in a way to where that patient one understands what's needed, what the problem is, what will happen if they don't do anything and how we can get that thing done.
And my job is to help to make that as simple, as clear as possible to where they understand it and they get that treatment done instead of sometimes just short-changing pieces of it to where they don't really understand and they're saying no. And I'm like, well, it's their choice. And I'm like, but did I really explain it to where they understand what choice they're making?
The Dental A Team (08:58)
Yeah, that's a really good point. I like how you said that like over complicating, but oversimplifying because there's that middle ground, right of like, walking, we're going too fast. And so we exhaust ourselves halfway through the Grand Canyon hike or we're going too slow. And now it's night when we're getting out and that's scary. So it's like finding that middle ground of pace to make the perfect run to run hike, I think it was actually perfect. had a client call last week that they were like,
And this I think is super common. We've heard this a million times, right? Like he's taking too long in the exams. He's explaining everything, right? It's like, okay, are they a details person? Are they a bullet point person? Really being able to gauge the human that you're talking to, the patient in the chair and getting some of that information. you mentioned like making sure the team is supporting the doctor. And I, when I speak to doctors in relation like this, I really like to call them the support team.
And I know everybody calls them like employees or my employees or they're my staff or they're my team. And if you attach that support team to it, like they're really here to support you. So having them help to prep the patient. So handoffs are essential and making sure like, ⁓ they know they bring led to the fact that there's potentially something going on here. So that's that co-diagnosis space, right? Which I think is a hard word to understand because the word diagnosis is in there and you're not actually diagnosing. You're just like,
leading them down a path that there may be a diagnosis, I think it gets a little confusing.
Britt (10:27)
diagnose, preheat, whatever term that you want to use, I'll tell you my view in my hygiene brain and I think, again as an assistant, you should think the same way. If I'm sitting there complaining about how long an exam is taking and it's not because the doctor is talking about personal stuff and chit chatting with this patient on the personal side of things, I didn't do my job well.
The Dental A Team (10:29)
3D.
Yes.
Britt (10:53)
Because if I did my job well, I would have already talked about most of those things to that patient, to where the doctor doesn't have to have that full conversation. I can recap it, say, hey, here's what's going on. Here's what I see. Here's what we talked about. We want to make sure you take a look at it, doc, to see what's needed and confirm, you know, if there's anything that's needed there. Cause then I, I've cut down 90 % of that conversation for them. And I like to be on time. I think most hygienists like to be on time.
One of the things that I loved about being a hygienist is like, I'm running my column. Like that's part of the beauty is that I have a lot of control over how that day runs. It's just my exam part. And I have a lot of control over how that exam goes if I prep.
The Dental A Team (11:37)
100 % agree. I had a client two weeks ago, speaking with a doctor because their team was like, Tiff, like, I can't get him into these other appointments. And these are running long and blah, blah, blah. So I go into the call thinking like, all right, I got to get this doctor in shape. Like, what is what is he doing that's holding them back from being on time in these other areas? And what it came down to realistically was the inconsistency in the information.
from the support team going to the doctors and the inconsistency in having a support team in the room with the doctor. And so when I go in like, okay, you gotta cut down exams. And he is like, well, that's cool. But like, it's so inconsistent. That makes me think, right? So you're saying pass off that information, gather the information, pass it off. I hated nothing more as a dental assistant than to be gathering the information and then it not being used.
And you know, that's still to this day. If I make something, if I create something, if I get the information and the data and then it's not, it's overlooked, it's not used, or I'm asked to create it again, I will freak out. It's just, it's just who I am as a human and Brit does really well with me. ⁓ but this team specifically, right. was intermittently, like sometimes they had it, sometimes they passed it off. Sometimes they did it. Sometimes they were in the room with him to anesthetize.
So they were giving a handoff like sometimes they weren't. So then what happens is you're training that doctor to not trust that the information's going to be there. So the team is upset and they're like, well, it's like he asks the questions as if we didn't do it correctly. And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, I think he's asking the questions because he's not always trusting that it was done.
And now his routine is to just do it, whether you've done it or not. So to the support team and to the doctors who need to train their support team, train that consistency. And the inconsistency of it is what will break it apart. Your exams will go long and truth be told, your case acceptance decreases. The trust that you guys have, chair side, the communication and the relationship that you and your support team have, it builds the trust for the patient. They can feel it.
And when you pass off that information correctly, when you preheat the patient, you pass it off, you guys are in communication, you're in communication with the patient, the patient is like, this is fantastic, like this is going to save my tooth, this is going to get rid of this problem because we're speaking to the problem, the solution and the consequence, right? So what's the problem that we're fixing? And when we're all speaking that same language around the same thing, the patients are like, this is fantastic.
I do need this fixed and your case acceptance will increase. But if you doctors are carrying all the load or if hygienists are carrying the load and the doctors are like, cool story bro, whatever, we're not sharing it, right? We're not sharing the support there. Your case acceptance won't be as high as if those other pieces are in place. So, Brett, I think one of the pieces, speaking to the team that is inconsistent and speaking to the doctor, you pulled out one of my favorite words, control.
Britt (14:45)
Hahaha
The Dental A Team (14:45)
And I
like to speak to teams and doctors of like, yes, that's a problem. What is, what aspect of control do you have to fix that problem? Cause what happens is in human life in general, we get wrapped up in the problem and we're like, hands in the air. Like I didn't do it. That's on you. And we wait for someone else to fix it. But the reality is we do have some control over it. So doctors creating and forming those habits coming in and being like, Hey, what you got for me?
Instead of barreling in and being like, how's that tooth feeling? Let's look at your x-rays. Your consistency and your habit you form is to come into a room and acknowledge the team first, patient after.
Britt (15:29)
love that you brought up consistency, right? And when I'm consistent, right? We're humans of pattern, right? Like we like habits, we like to follow the same pattern. So agree, that's when I am a consistent human and doing things the same way. Then kind of like the control piece, I'm like, then I have more control if I'm consistent that I know that that other person is usually going to follow along for the
part and maybe we've got to have a conversation to clear something up but if they know what they can expect of me and I'm gonna show up for them every single time then it makes life a lot easier and so I think of it that way too like when I'm doing exams with doctors right usually if a doctor is gonna repeat everything I already talked about it's because I didn't hop in soon enough and give them enough of a like rundown of what we already had a conversation about so that's me so if they start doing that then that's a me problem okay I need to
hop in soon enough and make sure I give them a good enough recap of what we've already talked about so they don't need to repeat that conversation. I will tell you guys, doctors, you might have a hard time letting go of these things, but team members, ultimately doctors want to let go of these things and they want you to step up so they can and everything's gonna run much more efficiently when we can do that is when team members are able to take care of as much as they possibly can.
make your doctor's life as easy as possible by teeing them up and making I love it because I'm like, if I am on point in my communication, that doctor is just going to follow me. Even if I don't know that doctor very well, like I could, I've temped in offices before I could go temp in an office. And if I follow the same way I do it every single time, because it leads them right into what's next and what's needed. And then I happen to do my part and they finish it off. I guarantee you within a day of working with a brand new doctor.
I can have them in a flow of how I'm running hands down because I'm doing my part consistently.
The Dental A Team (17:30)
Agreed. I totally agree. I've done it. I've done the same thing. I've come as a dental assistant for an office and the doctor was like, this is amazing. I was like, I can't have it any other way because then I don't have control over the timing of the appointment and I'm responsible for your schedule being on time. And so if I allow you the control, you have no idea what time it is, you have no idea what's coming after this appointment. I do I have that information. And I'm responsible. People are going to come to me, right? That's what
this doctor was like, the assistants and the assistants like, well, the doctor and I'm like, well, it's the assistants like assistants, your goal, your job is to ensure that we're running on time and that the doctor has everything that they need. Now doctors, that doesn't mean you get to chat all day and blame it on the assistants. means you've got to follow their lead and you've got to train your assistants in what that needs to look like. And then your assistants train you and how they're going to do it. So you've to find a really great assistant or train a really great assistant to understand that and get it.
They're out there and they're freaking amazing. But the biggest piece there I think to speak to right is the control factor. What can you what aspect of control in this problem do you have? And if the problem is, is your case acceptance is not high enough. It's not always more calls you guys, it might be. But my goal as a treatment coordinator is that I don't have calls to make. So if there are a lot of calls to make, I usually tell practices if you've got a ton of money and outstanding treatment,
That's not actually your issue. Your issue is why aren't they accepting treatment planning? Why are they going on to a list to be called? So if you're like hammering calls, hammering calls, hammering calls, and that's the only thing you're focusing on, you're missing a huge aspect of case acceptance because there's a piece there that's not being hit on. And typically it's like that tit for tat space of like, well, he did this or she did this or hygienist did this, dental assistants aren't stepping up. Like, wait, how can I?
control the narrative and build a habit, form a habit out of this. So how can I get the support from my team? That comes down to I think, Britt, you nailed this of like, what do you want? So doctors, a limited exam, this is the one that gets the most wild because it could be anything. We don't know what the patient's coming in for. What are the three to five things, things of information, pieces of information that you want for every limited exam, right? Are they taking any medication?
Is the medication helping on a scale of one to 10? What does the pain feel like? When did it start? What have you done to try to help it so far? And then caveat, if it's a patient of record, did we diagnose something there, right? So like those are, that's the same thing for all exams. How can my team preheat my patient and support me in that? And then speaking to the problem, going back to the Grand Canyon, you know,
Britt (20:08)
I'm sorry.
The Dental A Team (20:23)
purse piece there, excuse me, the Grand Canyon piece there is how can we make sure that we're finding that perfect piece and we're not giving too much information overwhelming them and confusing them, but we're not oversimplifying where it's like, you need a phrenectomy and a triple crown and whatever, like these crazy words that they're just like glazed over, yeah, okay, and then we're wondering why they didn't accept, you gotta find that perfect piece in the middle.
Britt (20:40)
Yes.
The Dental A Team (20:49)
your support team, I think can help find that too. Because Britt, I'm sure there have been plenty of times where you're like, hey, this guy is like an in and out, like he just wants the information and then he'll ask questions. But then you probably had the ones too, where it's like, they want all the details. I've given them a ton. And we're going to pass it off because those ones, right, are the ones that get pretty lengthy.
Britt (21:09)
Yeah, and I know right in my personality, I am a detailed person. I like to understand all the things, but that is not everyone. And so surely I need to be aware of that. And then yes, I've got whatever you guys want in your process, right of how we talk about things when we follow the same process, we speak the same language, right? It makes everybody's life a lot easier and it makes us come across also more confident and polished to those patients so that they
understand, believe in, are ready to do the treatment that they need to take care of their oral health. But I think along with that is making sure that we are able to, ⁓ I don't know, just have it be really nice and smooth for that patient and be on point and adjust when needed for personality, right? So like I can identify and see pretty quickly someone who loves the details or I'm like, great, I'm gonna
I'm gonna make sure I give them the why. I still don't wanna spend waste time on unnecessary details, right? But I'm gonna make sure I give them the why. And you're right, my deep personalities, I mean, you guys, worked in Arlington, Virginia for how long? It is a big city and they are movers and shakers and you wanna talk about a straight personality, they've got them. So I'm like, I need to not make this person super annoyed by me. Here's the nuts and bolts. What questions do you have? Doctor will come in and let you know. Like keep it nice and simple.
The Dental A Team (22:33)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I agree. think ⁓ these are all great points. I love everything you said, Britt, and coming from a hygienist mindset is perfect because that's doctors like that's what you need. You need a hygienist that's thinking that way too. Like, what does this patient need? How can I help the doctor to be successful in this exam and get that doctor going because a hygienist job, is patient care, education, and keeping on a schedule. And the control factor
a lot of hygienists will throw their hands in the air and be like, you know, I'm late again. Yeah, I'm late, but it's because well, how did how could I have adjusted what I did to ensure that we stayed on time so that that didn't happen? So I totally agree.
Britt (23:14)
Yeah, that's where
yeah, guide them you guys at if a doctor feels supported, right, and they feel like you've got it handled to where they can follow your lead for hygienist and assistance. They will do it like again, they they're watching how many columns and you're in charge of one or two, right? So like they've got a lot going on in their head if they can trust that their team is there to take care of them and guide them to the right thing in conversation and
assistance, a great assistant tells the doctor where to go and where they need to be right now. It makes everybody's life a lot easier, most importantly, doctor. And doctor, if your team is not doing that, I would say look at do they know what the expectation is? Do they know what they can do? And then are you allowing them to do it?
The Dental A Team (24:03)
Yeah, I think that's a great those are your great action items right there. Like what do want this to look like? Are you allowing them to do that? And what can you do to build those habits between yourself and the team to get those pieces going? So problem solution consequence always you guys that's easy. We all know that make sure you're speaking to the problem more than the solution. And getting that solidified. Make sure that those handoffs are there and that you guys are you guys are getting the information that you want. If you're not then ask for it just build them a template of what
Britt (24:06)
you
The Dental A Team (24:32)
information you want to get and then make sure that you're using it. You're taking it right. You're not just barreling in and the the team should know like hey grab the doctor's attention right away an introduction allowing for an introduction and the team needing to do an introduction will help save that every single time. So I love this Brett. Thank you. Thank you for doing the Grand Canyon first that you can let us know what it's like. I appreciate you.
Britt (24:55)
I'll film.
The Dental A Team (24:57)
I appreciate your input on this. You guys go increase your case acceptance. Again, if you're making massive amounts of calls, outgoing calls, try to fill a schedule and try to get the case acceptance, that means something internal prior to the patient's leaving is not working. There's a system, there's a step there that's not being dialed in. So look at the internal systems. Definitely always making calls, never forgetting about that, but the ultimate goal is that there's not calls to make.
Go get higher case acceptance. Britt, thank you so much for being here with me today. I hope you guys enjoyed this content. Listen back, take notes, do whatever you need to do. And as always, message us at [email protected] for any questions, any resources. We are here to help you and go have a killer rest of your day.
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Kiera and Dana offer a life raft for businesses struggling to keep cash flow in the green, including specific steps to help get your practice back on course.
Episode resources:
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Transcript
Kiera Dent (00:00)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I am jazzed. Dana, the one and only Dynamite Dana over there. She's on the podcast with me today. Dana, how are you today?
Dana (00:10)
doing pretty good. It's a beautiful day here and so I'm just excited to be on the podcast with you.
Kiera Dent (00:15)
Dana, I am so glad because you and I, feel like we're ships in the night. We see each other, we wave to each other. We love working together, but the reality of us like being on the same boat to talk to each other is few and far between, which is so ironic. But every time I see you in person, I'm like, Dana, we need to hang out more. Like, so it's fun to podcast, even though, I mean, it's a funny way to say hello. We're like here to do work, but at least we get to like have more interactions. So, ⁓ thanks for being on my ship today. I guess like welcome, welcome aboard, matey.
Dana (00:44)
Yeah,
happy to be here, Gatton.
Kiera Dent (00:48)
But today you guys, Dana and I, we were talking about like some burnout and cashflow row. So think about death row. We actually have a lot of clients that come to us. Thankfully, like once they become clients, they get off death row, cashflow row. But we thought about, think oftentimes burnout and cashflow row ⁓ go hand in hand. And so I figured, Dana, let's get into like, how do you get off of cashflow row? like death row,
you're about to go and like die like literally. ⁓ I feel it's becoming a bit more common than I've seen in the past. I'm super grateful and I just want to shout out and for all of you listening, if you're on cashflow row or you're on burnout row, ⁓ just like a huge hug, a huge hug of love, a huge hug of no judgment. Gosh, I get like emotional thinking about it I think it's so easy as a business owner to like just harp on yourself to just feel like
Like, why am I so dumb? Like, why can't I figure this out? Like, the mean girl or boy in your mind is just like vicious and wicked. And it makes me so angry that we're this way to ourselves as business owners. Cause I'm like, you know what? You're freaking strong. And like, you took these risks and like, you don't know what you're doing, but you know, you wanted to like build a great like culture for your team. You wanted to build this amazing life for your family. And yeah, it's hard. It's really hard to be a business owner. And I think I speak of this so candidly because
Like I've been on death row, like cashflow row. I've been on burnout row, like, and you just sit there and when you need to like have the most love and respect for yourself and grace, it's when we like punch ourselves and kick ourselves and yell at ourselves. And so ⁓ I thought it would be a really, ⁓ hopefully timely podcast for some of you listening of just love of no judgment, of encouragement, and maybe some like shining little stars when you need a North star right now, because
It can feel very daunting. And I want to tell you, you don't have to do it alone. ⁓ You telling yourself you're alone and on an island is your choice. And it's a choice that you don't have to stay with. There's so many ways we can help. I think even just like when we get clients that are on cashflow row, I feel like they feel they finally got a life raft sent to them when they didn't know it was even possible. And as consultants, think Dana and I and our whole consulting team are so passionate about getting you into cashflow positive and doing it with ease where it's not that hard. But
Like it wasn't overnight that you got here either. So it's not going to be overnight. get you out of there. We're to move you pretty quickly. Cause I think like, Hey, someone's like holding the lantern for you in this dark cave. Like, all right, here's the way out. can really, really help you. But really Dana, think like just again, I hope all of you listening know we come to you with love, with no judgment. You're not a terrible business owner. You're not dumb. You shouldn't have known this before. It's just, this is where we are kind of like a patient with perio, right? Like it's okay. Like this is where we are. And the great news is
There are solutions and there's a way out and there's a way to happiness again if you want. So Dana, that's kind of my like emotional pitch to start this off with. Any thoughts you have? Because I think you've seen quite a few come to you on Cash Flow Row from day one.
Dana (03:49)
This is.
Yeah, yeah. And I love just your vulnerability there, Kiera, as a business owner, because I say it to doctors all the time, like, whether it's a dental office, whether it's a consulting company, whatever business it is, it doesn't come with an instruction manual. And so we get in there with the best of intentions, we're ready to work hard, we put everything you have into it. And there are ebbs and flows in business. And sometimes it gets really, really hard. And you're right, it is the self talk that
that you have to take a look at and the blame that you put on yourself for being the reason why you got there. And you know what, it's okay, we're gonna figure it out ⁓ and we're gonna stop the bleeding and we're gonna start focusing on the things that are going to matter and are going to move it forward. And you know what, as a coach, I get the pleasure of cheering you along the way and sometimes kicking your booty when it's needed. And ⁓ it is, we are seeing it more and more and I think
it comes down to two, like knowing what cash you need, knowing what you're spending your cash on, and sometimes making some hard decisions based on that too.
Kiera Dent (05:05)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think with that it's like awesome. Here we go Here's the blood like we're going to help you get out of that and I love that you said there's no instruction manual just like being a parent There's no instruction manual and so there are just different ways to do it So my big thing and in Dental A team, always like we are profitable We call it the yes model so you can say yes to everything you want in life and the Y stands for you as a person We're gonna focus on E stands for earnings and profitability
and S stands for systems and team development. So like those three things together are going to give you success with ease. So today, if you're on cashflow row or burnout row, I think oftentimes burnout comes because of cashflow. Like it is the scary piece to it. So with that, let's talk about like, what can we do if we're in cashflow row? What are some of the fastest things that will help people get out of cashflow? Dana, I'll let you take this. We're going to just kind of riff back and forth. Like you guys, this is unscripted. This is just from our knowledge of things that we do.
of like when we see offices and again this is coming from real life offices things we've actually done to get them off of cashflow row. Dana let's just riff because you've got a few that have just come and you've got a few that have been there and ⁓ they're doing well.
Dana (06:12)
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I think it is. It's a reviewing of expenses. Is there anything we can cut that we're not cutting ourselves too lean though that we can't continue to grow? And then also, what do need to produce and produce it consistently?
Kiera Dent (06:27)
Yeah, I love that. So it's like we either need to increase our production or we need to decrease our expenses. And on the production, I will also say we need to make sure we're collecting. It's wild to me. I was talking to a doctor who's on quote unquote cashflow row and they said, Kiera, I have like $300,000 sitting in AR. And I was like, so you're really not on cashflow row. You've got the money. You just haven't collected it. So realizing that usually in dentistry, there's quite a few cashflow opportunities very quickly.
But I agree with you, Dana. Like step one is like, let's get our PNL and let's know our numbers. Is there anything on there? Like, and I'm talking like, you don't like, gosh, people get wild and they start cutting things that actually you need. Like I know your hygienists are expensive, but they also produce for you. I know billers can feel annoying, but they also collect money for you. I know your treatment coordinator can feel expensive, but they're putting money on your books. I know a consultant can feel like I'm going to cut. can do this on my own, but they're literally the only person holding you accountable and pushing you through and guiding you.
So it's one of those things of like, let's look to see like, what really is stuff to cut? And I'm talking like subscriptions that you're no longer using. This is one that it makes me wild. I don't understand this. It makes no sense to me. But when people are in cashflow row and the only thing I can come up with Dana is it's ego. That's all I can figure out. So I'm just saying to you like, Hey, I hear you. see you. Let's cut the ego and get you into cashflow positive. And then like rock on, do whatever you want from there is like holding onto equipment that you're not using. It's weird to me. Like,
Okay, so we're not like, we thought we were gonna do all these scans of the Itero. And if I look at the last six months, we literally have like taken three scans. Or I bought the CBCT, because I thought was gonna do all these implants, and I'm not doing implants. Or I have like multiple Iteros, but like we've cut back and we've scaled back like, so I only need one Itero instead of three Iteros. those are big expenses on your debt and your loan. Like, let's sell those, let's get rid of them. people, I don't know, it's like embarrassment or ego or like,
Maybe you're still like wishing for the good old glory day. I don't know what it is, but I'm like, get rid of that. Cut the cost. Like think in your own life. If you had a car that you had a car payment on, even though it's the nicest car and it's your dream car, but you can't afford food, you're going to get rid of that car. You're going to sell it and you're going to buy something more economical and affordable. Like let's just get rid of it. No one, no one cares. Like honestly, none of your colleagues know that you're selling the equipment off because you're freaking broke right now.
That's just you and it's okay. it truly like what can you get rid of? there equipment you're no longer using that you could sell that you could pawn off just to get you some cash flow quickly and cut some of that debt services? Like is there any debt service that we can get rid of for you? That's a question like but I think it's a very easy cut on the PNL. Dana thoughts on that.
Dana (09:02)
Yeah, I agree with you. then and again, I can't, I can't really decipher where it comes from. But I do you do see offices wanting to hold on to those things. And maybe it is like, well, we'll turn it around, and then I'll use it. Great, then we can get another one down the line. Right. But right now, what the immediate relief from dispensing of it will far outweigh hanging on to it until down the road, maybe we'll need it again.
Kiera Dent (09:27)
Exactly. Like it's okay. Like don't don't even stress about it. We're not we're not here for we're not here for that ego. So I think when we're looking at the PNL, let's look to see like go back to COVID days. If you were a business owner during COVID, I remember we scrubbed that PNL like, could we call the lenders? Could we put this on pause? Could we like get rid of this loan? Like those things I think are really important because that actually can free you up exponentially being buried in debt. I remember my husband when we were paying off his loans. Holy moly, he could not see outside of that debt for one second.
We can't get rid of our practice loan, but you could renegotiate your rent, like your lease. Those are things that you can do. I remember during COVID, people got very scrappy and I'm like, don't forget that scrap you just learned a few years ago. Like take those lessons and go through them. that's step one of, but be careful. Like Dana said, please don't cut things that are going, let's not cut the hygienist right away. Like I'm looking at what are the things that are nice to have, but not necessary to have. Let's cut those things.
⁓ well, I put consulting in a must have. think if they're a great consultant and they're holding you accountable and they're moving you forward, yeah, you better believe it's one of the best dollars you'll ever spend. Now, if you are not, ⁓ if they're not moving you forward, if they're just having like rando conversations with you, probably a good thing to move on. But again, you also should go to your consultant. They work for you and say, I am in cashflow row, which hopefully if they're a good consultant, they would know that. And it's like, we have to make this happen. Now there's no other options.
So after we do that, next step is let's look at our AR. Doctors, if you don't know how to run your AR, that's your aging report. Let's just go see how much money is sitting out in our AR. And let's see if it's patient portion that we could collect or if it's insurance and also why and how much is in our 30, 60, 90 and over 90 buckets. Because that over 90, like this sounds awkward, but doctors like truly you can call patients and you can collect. We can send text messages. I know that feels awkward. I know that doesn't feel like what you want to do.
But these are ways like there is cash there. Also, like, let's look at the protocol of how are we getting there? Are we not collecting when they get into the practice? We can start collecting when they come in. I was in an office yesterday and they're like, gosh, our accounts are all funky. And I was like, sweet. As soon as they walk in, let's collect the money before they even go to the back. They're like, but that's different. We've never done that. And I'm like, think about a hospital. You do that. Like you show up, you pay the money and then you go back, like switch it. It's not weird. People don't think it's weird.
It's very normal. So like, let's collect the money. Let's put some systems into place. So we stop getting into an AR crunch. And really making sure that that is something that we are very proactive on. Do you know other thoughts on AR? AR to me, think is just like this like, I don't know. It's like an endless pit. And I think I have it because when I first started the business, I had this endless pit of AR and I didn't even know it existed. And I'm like, oh, no wonder I'm broke. It's just because we're not collecting the money. And then I was like,
Sweet, let's change the system. That's a system you should put into place. But what are some other thoughts or systems you have around AR to help people get this cash?
Dana (12:16)
You
Yeah, I think AR it's it's kind of like culture. It's like a thing that you have to stay super super consistent on and work on all the time and I see it so oftentimes in practice. It's like well I pull it once a month and you know, like I that's when I work on it and I'm like no it's something that you have to set purposeful time aside. So whoever's responsibility it is making sure that every single week they have a chunk of time that can be dedicated solely to working on AR because it is also it can so
quickly grow when we haven't been paying attention to it. And so it's, I'd say, dedicated time for it and then find a cadence that works for you. Whether it's alternating patient and then insurance and then patient follow-up again and then more insurance follow-up, figure out however you can keep it super consistent and make sure you've got dedicated time every single week because it will quickly grow if we're not paying attention to it.
Kiera Dent (12:54)
Yes.
Yeah, it's a wild zone that I'm like, okay, ⁓ it's so crazy how fast it will grow on you. so it's, and just so you know how insurance works, if you don't understand this, I'm here to like give you a quick like, all right, this is how the snapshot works. So what it is, is you actually have it where like,
These insurance claims don't fall in like, okay, it's the 30th of the month. So now we go and that's when our 30 days fall into 60 days. Every day, money is moving from the 30 to 60, 60 to 90, 90, because it's based on when that claim sent. So you have to realize this money kind of like interest is how I feel of AR. It's constantly moving on you. So you can call it winning Wednesday, you can call it like taking cash on Tuesday, Thursday, but like literally have days set up for your biller and
This is a position and this is a job responsibility that I am very sticky on. They have to do it. I don't care if we're busy. don't care if patients are calling like, dang, I'm so busy. I had a patient, I can't pay your paycheck. Like that's the reality. They have to collect money. I do not care. Those are non-negotiables for me. It's two hours, Tuesday and Thursday, non-negotiables period. The house will not burn down. The practice will not burn down. Get your dang money because oftentimes that's all it is. And it's just being consistent. So billers,
Doctors, if you need to send this to your bill, like, Hey, we're on cashflow row billers. I'm talking to you. You have a responsibility to your doctor and to this office. They have produced. You need to collect this money. So get the good insurance verification, get the statements, call the insurance companies, figure out why our claims aren't getting paid. That's your job, honey. That's your job. And yes, your responsibility. Like if you want a paycheck, collect the money because that's where your paycheck's coming from. And so
and it's nothing wrong. We're not doing anything wrong. We've done the work. We did great work. Let's collect the money and make sure that we don't get this out of control. It like breaks my heart when doctors have no money and it's because team members, we let our doctors down. They did the work and honestly, team members, it breaks my heart and I'm here to say like, tis tis, shame on you. Be better than that. You are better than that. Collect the money and if you need help, tell your doctor like, hey, hire the dental team. Like we have literally brought in hundreds of thousands of dollars.
just by helping some billers because honestly, doctors, like I say, tisks on the team, which truly it is our fault, but they might not know how to do it or how to do it effectively. There's a lot of ways where we can chunk it. We can break it down. We can make it so much faster and easier for them. We can help them get rid of some of the bad debt. It's running reports differently. It's tagging things differently so they can work it. It becomes so much easier. So again, like if you're billing is a struggle, great opportunity for you to get some help and billers, please don't be afraid to ask for that help too. So.
I say that with a giant hug as well. I know it was like a stern hug, but really you've got to collect that money. So we've got cut your expenses. Look at that. Like debt services. What on earth? Just get rid of the debt. Get rid of anything you can. Next is going to be that we're collecting the money in the AR. Let's figure out how much we have there. And then next is going to be producing. Now I will go on a rant again, clearly cash and burnout. Like let's just not get there. Like I hate this. Let's get you out of there fast. ⁓
I really hate when doctors come on to calls with me and they're like, yeah, I I produced a million last year. And I'm like, that's awesome. And they're like, yeah, but we had to write off 50%. So we were only produced like 500,000. And I'm like, why did you tell me a million that only served you like high five, but you did not produce a million. I don't care that that's your office fee that feeds your ego only, but it's not real. And what you're doing is you're actually hurting yourself because you're, you're elusive to the fact that you're not producing a million, but you think you are.
but you're living on 500 bucks, it'd be like, or 500,000. It's like, oh, Dana, I make a million a year, but I only have like 90,000. Well, why are you telling me you have a million? You don't actually, like that's not even real money. That's monopoly money. I'm so glad we gave you some paper money. Like I get it, but you're in insurance. So like, let's live on real numbers so you can produce real numbers. Cause this is often where cashflow happens because you're like, well, we're making a million.
No, you're not. You're making 500,000. So either get out of network, which I strongly would not recommend, but do a block schedule, figure out how to produce, make sure you're diagnosing. And also when I hear about these cashflow row offices, normally, and doctors, I'm not a dentist, so I'm not here to tell you how to do it. I'm just here to say, whatever number you want and need to produce, you need to be diagnosing three times that amount. That's a statistic that's proven. You've got to be diagnosing enough to get that money on your schedule.
And the next piece is treatment coordinators and doctors. We've got to make sure we're closing that treatment and getting it on the books and doing quadrant dentistry, not just solo tooth. If we're watching, what are we watching for? If you're a watcher, you're scared to diagnose, just diagnose one more thing that you would normally watch. Just put it on the books. That's going to help you. But the reality is you, you truly have a moral obligation to diagnose your patients, ⁓ to tell them what needs to happen and to not judge them based on what you think their bank account is. Your job is to be a comprehensive dentist.
All right, Dana, I'm off my soapbox. You should take it away from me now. What are your thoughts on that?
Dana (18:17)
Thank
I love that and I do say yeah exactly we want to look at net numbers and if you're not happy with your adjustments then there are you know ways to tackle that through fee negotiations through you know looking at your numbers to see is it worth
changing some network status with one insurance company or making a little bit of a shift or do we just need to start, like you said, being strategic and block scheduling and maybe even one more step of, hey, yeah, we can block schedule and we've got to watch our insurance mix within our block schedule. All of those things are avenues. just kind of, you have to take a look at.
Kiera Dent (18:50)
Mm-hmm.
Dana (18:55)
the numbers and build it to be efficient, successful, get you to your goal and to also not cause burnout. I get so much pushback on block scheduling because it's like, well, my team knows how to schedule. Absolutely, right? But like, can I get you to goal with two, three crowns and a quadrant worth of fillings? Yes. Can I also get you to goal with 32, one surface fillings? Sure can. Those days feel super different.
Right? That's a lot of turnover, a lot of check in and check out and insurance verification and all of those things. And so when we build it more strategically, dang, those days feel really, really different to
Kiera Dent (19:23)
They do.
And I say this often, I'll say it again, if we have a bad schedule, that was our fault. Like I know you're like, well, patients, can like, they just want to go here. And I'm like, no, you led them there. You guide them. Doctors, are like, you are a clinician. You are an amazing doctor. We get to pick our schedule. And so like Dana said, let's build this. Let's make this incredible for us. But I think those are hopefully three quick ways for you to figure out your cashflow. If you're on cashflow row.
⁓ And please, the last thing I would say is bonus tip for you is cut the excuses. I think when people are on cashflow road, they like to sit here and excuse land. They like to sit here and blame land, which is normal. It's normal to be frustrated. It's normal to say, like it was this, it was that. was like, well, we can't hire people. Stop, stop. You're continuing this in a reality where it's like, it's just not true. I know it feels that way.
but we've got to stop the excuses. We've got to stop the blame and we've got to just say like, this is where we are. And the good news is this is what we're going to do to get out of it. It's hard. Like that takes mental discipline that you've got to have. But that's also where I think like a coach, a cheerleader, someone who's an ally with you. Like Dana said, sometimes it's a hug and sometimes it's a good like push because you need to be pushed. But hopefully these are a few things because I believe that the mental stress of cashflow row.
will create more burnout faster than anything else because you just sit here stressed out of your mind. So Dana, I hope you guys all like listen. I hope you take it. And if you are in cashflow row or you're on burnout row, please like reach out. We will do like a complimentary practice growth call with you. Like, let's see where your gaps are. Let's help you out. Let's get you out of this wildness because success with ease is very possible. And that's what I think Dana and Denali team in our.
whole company is passionate about is getting you the yes model, you as a human being so happy and fulfilled and having the life you want, getting the earnings and profit that you deserve that you are worthy of that you can totally have and getting the systems and team development to support those those top two things, just be able to say yes to whatever you want. So Dana, gosh, thanks for getting in this one. This is a solid and I just appreciate you loving our clients and getting them off of cashflow row and and into the happier land and for being on the podcast today.
Dana (21:49)
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And you know, I just love being able to see clients like win when they came in feeling so burnt out. So it just fills me too. So appreciate it.
Kiera Dent (22:00)
⁓
I love it. Let's get you guys the W's. Let's get you those wins when you didn't think it was possible I think that's my favorite thing is turning the impossible into possible and helping you take dreams into reality So reach out hello at the Dental A team calm and as always thanks for listening We'll catch you next time on the Dental A team podcast
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Kiera reflects on some of her most memorable episodes and experiences across 1,000 episodes (!!!) of the Dental A-Team podcast!
Episode resources:
Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast
Schedule a Practice Assessment
Leave us a review
Transcript
Kiera Dent (00:00)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today feels like a ridiculously special, amazing, incredible day. We are at 1,000 Dental A Team podcasts. Like, can you honestly believe this? I can't believe it. I can't believe that we have hit record on this podcast a thousand times. And honestly, I wanna say thank you to you as listeners, to all of you who have made this podcast a reality. If you're new to the show, welcome. I'm Kiera Dent. I love dentistry. I love making people happy. I love.
truly enjoying life. And this podcast came to me while Jason, my husband and I were hiking Yosemite. And I said, Hey, I've noticed that there's this area where they're unserved, where doctors and teams are not communicating on the same way. And like, there's really got to be a better way to help practices scale, to grow, to evolve. And being a team member myself and a business owner, I thought let's combine both of those perspectives. So truly it's an honor. ⁓
I honestly cannot believe that we are here. So if you've been here since episode one, please send me an email. [email protected]. I will send you a personalized thank you to you. I am just so honored. If you've been here for at least like 900 of them, let me know. But truly it's such an honor to be able to have this podcast where we're able to give back, to serve, to share, to laugh, to grow. This podcast has been such a healing space for me. And so today I thought it'd be really fun.
for us to actually go through some of our most powerful success networks that's helped hundreds of doctors. It helps you. And I've called it the yes model. ⁓ that's focusing, wow, that's focusing in on you being able to say you, earnings and systems and team development. So focusing on you as a person, helping make sure that you're profitable as a practice, and then having systems and team development in place ⁓ to make sure that you can really, truly say yes to everything in life that you want. Because I truly, truly, truly believe.
that running a practice, having a successful team, having a team of people that are accountable does not have to be hard. And so really that's been the whole purpose of this is to make it tactical, practical. And I thought like, Hey, this is going to be something really fun. We're actually going to pull from our framework. But what I'm going to do is I'm actually going to pull from past episodes, some of our hottest episodes, some of those fun episodes to kind of help you see how we can focus on you as a person, how we can focus on your earnings and profitability of the practice and helping with your systems and team development.
Now, something that is fun is that there actually were several episodes that were our top downloaded episodes over the years. And so this is just something fun if you enjoyed it, amazing, but truly we looked back and these ones stood out. And so our episodes were episode 469, 10 Practices in 2 Years with Lewis Chen. So such a fun one to inspire, to ignite, to help all of us like really just get, I remember that practice and I was like, my gosh, I thought I like.
rampaged up and in like two years we had three, but to do 10 practices in two years. Our other top downloaded episode is episode 501, What Office Managers Need to Know and really helping those office managers highlight, elevate. Being an office manager in dentistry, I feel is such a tricky zone because there's really no rule book for it. And that's what we tried to create at Dental A Team is what is an office manager supposed to do and giving support to office managers and doctors so you can truly have these incredible leaders in your practice.
And then our next most downloaded episode was episode 607, A Day to Remember. And that was actually released on Thanksgiving. So shout out to you guys for having these as the most popular downloaded episodes. But like I said, I want to give you guys that framework for being able to say yes to everything with some podcast tools. Don't worry. You want to go back and listen to them if you don't want to. But trying to chunk that so you can really look at your life and your practice.
Kiera Dent (03:41)
So breaking into the you section, this is about you as a person. This is about you being that visionary, that owner, that fulfilled human, because honestly, if you're not fulfilled and you're not happy with what you're doing, honestly, your practice can't be there. And when we build the yes model, we purposely put it in a specific order of you first, and we focus on you as a person. Then we focus on earnings and profitability. And then we focus on systems and team, because what I found is if we put them in this order,
You as a person first, kind like take the oxygen mask off of you, put it on you. Like you've to take care of yourself first before you can help other people. If we put that oxygen mask on yourself, then what we do from there is we can give and serve to other people. Then we focus on profit. Cause honestly, so much of stress comes from cashflow. Like honestly, the bulk of offices who sign up with us and not all, but a lot of them are struggling with cashflow. They're struggling with profitability. They're struggling to learn to read their numbers. And then we do systems and team development.
And a lot of times we think like, let's put the systems in place, cause that's gonna fix everything else. But what that does is it doesn't make sure that you are fulfilled and we know where you're headed as a person. So focusing on you as a doctor, scaling honestly starts with you, but that doesn't mean we're doing more. It means that you are the leader that your practice needs. You know where you're headed. You know what the direction of the practice is. And that's where this can all come together. So some of the episodes that we pulled out for you guys from all these thousands of episodes, like literally we have a thousand. ⁓
would be number 17. Like let's go way back in the archives. If you have not gone, you guys can always head on over to TheDentalATeam.com, click on podcasts. You can search any topic and you can go find all thousand episodes. But going back clear to episode 17, I love this one, is Goals are lost without Accountability. So when we're having those, like if you don't have accountability in your practice, if you don't have things to help keep your team accountable,
Honestly, doctors, you can have all the goals that you want, but you've got to have the accountability with it. And so I really love to help doctors and teams come together within Dental A Team and our consulting ⁓ to make sure that your goals are hit because we have accountability and that means your personal goals. So where you want to be and your professional goals. And we have a client that really like was struggling with some of their goals, but they knew where they wanted to go. They wanted to get a beach house. They wanted to be able to take care of their children in college.
⁓ And what was really lovely about that is because we knew where they were going to go, we were able to help hold them accountable to it. And then we were able to the E portion that we'll get to, we were able to help create the profitability within the practice using production and metrics to be able to help them get there. But really looking at goals are lost if you don't have accountability. Like truly, if no one's holding people accountable, you doctor have to do it all. But even a lot of times things just get lost. And so making sure
that we really are working through these different pieces to make sure that your goals are not just a wish and a hope, but they're actually being measured and we're tracking them. We're making sure you're living the dream life that you want to be living. that would be an episode. Another episode in here would be 551 Leaders, You Need to Decide and helping you as a leader know that your team can't read your mind. You've got to make decisions. More is lost through indecision than a wrong decision. I have a quote over here by Theodore Roosevelt that
any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The next best thing is the wrong thing. And the worst thing you can do is nothing. And so making sure that on there, you guys are making a decision. Doctors like you have to decide. You have to be clear. You have to know where you're going. And I think deciding the life you want to live. ⁓ I have a quote that we say often, your practice should serve you, not you serving your practice.
making sure it's really giving you that dream life. Otherwise, go be an associate, like honestly, but there shouldn't be the stress and the heartache. And I know that there's stress with running a business. That's not something that we can ever take away, but really making sure we're fulfilling your bucket, your cup, making sure you're taken care of is a big portion. ⁓ Episode 940 was another popular one, What Leaders Should Not Do.
I thought this is a really good one to help doctors like realizing your role has to change. You have to become this incredible person. We have to know where you're going. We have to know this vision. But honestly, like leaders, you should not be doing everything. You should not be fixing everything. Otherwise you're enabling. And I remember another great ⁓ thought is when we empower our teams without accountability, we actually create ⁓ entitlement. And so what are we doing and are we fixing everything and helping?
Like we think we're helping, but we're not actually having our team rise to the table. so really looking at like, these are the things not to do. These are things that won't help you become the leader and the person that your practice needs and really relies on you to be. So another great episode of what things should you not be doing. think that that sometimes helps again, because as the visionary, as the leader of the practice, as you, as a person, ⁓ making sure that you're not running yourself ragged, trying to make everybody else and pleasing everybody else. But that way you're truly working as a team.
You need to show up as a CEO. You need to show up as the dentist. But you also need to have good working hours and good life ⁓ balance and life happiness and making sure that you're fulfilled and that your cup is being full. Otherwise, you're going to burn out and really making sure we take care of you as a person. Last episode to highlight in the you section is 948, The CEO Visionary and The OM Implementer and pulling from EOS and traction where
We literally have like CEOs, you're the visionary and how to have your office manager really be a yin to your yang to help support, to help make the visions come to life, to help bring all these pieces to the table ⁓ really, really truly can help. How do these two roles operate and who should be doing what and getting and gaining that clarity because again, when we focus on you and we know where you want to go and we know the pieces.
Then you're able to settle into your role as CEO of the practice too. And you're able to settle into all these different pieces, but really looking at you as a person, like not doing more, you as a leader, you as the CEO, you as a spouse or a partner or a parent or a sibling or a child, whatever it is, but you showing up as the best version of you. so yes, these are.
four episodes a lot on leadership for you. But really in that section within the Yes Model, I want you to really look at your life and I want you to see, are you truly living your best life? Are you truly fulfilled? Are you delegating to your team? Are you leading your team? Are you ⁓ working hard? ⁓ Or are you doing things smarter and actually working?
happier and more enjoyable. When I ask you about your personal relationships and I ask you about your personal life, do you have an identity outside of work or is it just work? ⁓ Do you find joy in the little things or have you lost that joy and sparkle because you're so consumed with the business? Those would be some things and if we're not taking care of you, it might be time to give a little TLC. I remember there was a great ⁓ podcast guest.
And he said a comment, he said, we should take care of our billion dollar asset, AKA our body. And I've thought about that a lot of do we take care of us, our body, our mind, our psyche, our happiness, to make sure that we can show up as those leaders that our practice and our patients and our community needs. ⁓ And so this section, I really hope that you highlight, yes, being that leader who needs to evolve and rise, ⁓ but really making sure that you're the human that you wanna be.
we've got the North Star dotting to where you ultimately want to go and really just spending and highlighting that. Okay, so the question to that is what do you need to stop doing in your life right now? Practice or professional or personal or both. So that way your team can start owning more and also so you can start having more fun in life. What do you need to stop doing? Like literally I'm sitting there with you pretend I got my pen and paper and you're like, okay, Kiera.
This is what I need to do to feel more fulfilled, more happy, more like me. What do you need to stop doing? Notice I didn't say start because you want to go like, no, I need to start journaling. No, what do you need to stop? Cause I'm trying to help you see that a lot of times less is more and you actually can create more by doing less. All right, next up is earnings. Making sure that you have profit with purpose. Collections don't equal profits. And so...
What I've noticed is like in larger practices, oftentimes they do protect their margins and they measure what matters. And so really making sure that when we're looking at the numbers, so we're looking at our earnings, this is moving into the second portion of the yes model. ⁓ Are you paying attention? Are you using your numbers to guide every single decision in your practice? And what I've seen is when practices come to us in chaos and move into clarity and more into control and more into ease, they know their numbers forward and backward.
Like they truly know, they use their numbers to make decisions on who to hire. They know their top line numbers. And what I love about this, like with our clients, we work hard on getting them an overhead scorecard. ⁓ So they know what their overhead is. We look at their monthly costs slash their BAM, their bare ACE minimum. We're looking at projections in the practice of what do we need? How do we hire? We're looking at other pieces for that I really just love are looking at their overhead as well to make sure. we've got our overhead, we've got our monthly costs.
We've got our profit margins to make sure we're looking at debt services to make sure that with the debt services, we're still profitable and we have cashflow in the practice and that these practices are thriving. And then we use KPI scorecards to make sure that the metrics within the practice are leading to the profit for a profitable business to make sure that doctors have a cashflow. And also in there, we include to pay doctors, like doctors you've got to be paid, otherwise it's really hard. And so again, just because we're producing, producing and collecting drive me wild.
I don't care what you're producing on a gross level, I care what you're producing on a net level that we can actually collect. Gross is gonna feed the ego, net's gonna feed the family. So make sure we have those numbers dialed in. So when we're looking at this, I want you to make sure that what I'm producing is actually collectible and also that we're producing enough and collecting, but that we also have our expenses in line. So we try within our clients to have them at a 50 % overhead, 30 % doctor pay, 20 % profit.
Now, obviously those things can be impacted by other things, rising costs, different pieces, but really a quick benchmark for you. And a couple different ⁓ awesome podcasts to kind of tie into this to just go back through the archives would be episode 618, How to Make Your Practice Profitable. So a lot of times we think it's production. We think that we've got to like produce more and create more, but really sometimes you don't have to produce. can't produce our problems. So looking at our P &L, looking at our costs, getting our whole team on board, having KPIs, having accountability within our team.
really can drive more profit. ⁓ I remember in Traction, was like at the very end, I'm probably gonna slaughter this section of the book, but I remember them saying that a lot of times the profit margins don't get bigger, the bigger your business goes. So like the problem, like your problems just get bigger with the more you produce. So an example, like they said, like a $1 million business with a profit margin oftentimes has the same profit margin as a $10 million business, but the headaches are more. Now, of course, ⁓
10 % profit margin on a $1 business compared to a 10 % profit margin on a $10 million business, there's obviously going to be more dollars. But it's the question of could I have more profit in a smaller practice? I don't know, that's questions for you to answer versus maybe always growing and chasing the next thing. So really looking to see how can we make it more profitable? How can we squeeze more juice out of it? And this is actually really fun because when we interview consultants to come into our company, we actually look to see can they find...
how to make a practice more profitable with a basic scenario. Because at the end of the day, if we can make you more profitable doctors and you can use your business more efficiently and with less stress and like better utilization of team members, you actually are way less stressed because you have cashflow and monies aren't as big of a deal. And what I found is the bulk of stress comes from cashflow issues. So really doing that, another great episode from this would be episode 871, Increase Profitability with Your AR.
So looking at cashflow leaks that kill growth. So AR is a huge zone and a lot of practices are like, we don't have any money. And I'm like, you have 160,000 sitting in AR, you've already done the work, we just need to collect the money. So making sure that we are actually helping you and your team get that money that should be paid to you. I had an office on a coaching call and they're like, well, Kara, our front office feels bad for calling patients to collect bills. And I was like, they feel bad.
No, they're doing these patients a service. Like we did a great job. Now these patients should be so happy to pay for us. And the reality is we should never be chasing money. We should just be collecting at a time of service. So really helping that profitability with AR because collections you can produce all day long, but if we're not collecting your profit margin is going to really, really struggle. So a lot of times it's not even a production issue. It's just a collection issue. That's a very simple system, which will come next in the S model. But when we see the numbers and we see where the leaks are,
then we know which systems we need to put into place. So this is how like you as a person know where you're going. Then we look at your profit, the numbers will tell us where we actually have true broken problems within our practice. And then we build the systems to fix those problems. And then it just chips up the line and you're able to say yes to more in your life. Another great episode was 884 Use Hygiene to Increase Profitability. So making sure that your hygiene department is about 20 to 35%.
Wow, excuse me, 25 to 30 % of your revenue ⁓ in your practice, depending upon what it is, that's usually for a GP practice. Hygiene's obviously, ⁓ in a pediatric practice, it will be different. Same thing within surgery practices and also some big GP practices that are doing a lot of surgery, hygiene might not be able to keep up with it. Or if I've got a doctor that's maybe slowing down, hygiene's actually out producing the doctor. Well, that's a concern that shows me that that doctor's not diagnosing and there's something going on.
But really utilizing your hygiene department, making sure our hygiene department's very thorough. This again, if it's not, and we don't have enough ⁓ perio within our practice, if our hygiene department's not ⁓ calibrated, we're not aligned, that then is a system that we'd wanna put into place to make sure we're able to help that. So really just another great episode. then 890 was, episode 890 was Hacks for Increasing Profitability. So ⁓ just some different pieces of like, what do we do? How can we increase that profitability?
certain things that we look for are one, like what are we producing and collecting? So let's look there first. Two, we wanna look at our BAM, our barriers, minimum and our costs and making sure that it's realistic for there. ⁓ And then also looking to see, could we renegotiate some of our pieces? Could we look at our lease? Could we look at our rent? Could we look at ⁓ our marketing spend? Could we look at our payroll? And again, I'm not here to cut team members. Don't worry team members.
I just want to make sure that each team member is being maximized and utilized based on the profitability because we know that most businesses should be able to run on a 30 % allocation to payroll. And so looking to see, we utilizing and maximizing our resources like we should? So really just looking for some of those hacks for profitability. But I love that so many people are obsessed with production and I'm obsessed with profit because profits, what's going to feed you profits, what's going to help you profit is going to be the piece.
that's going to actually make you thrive rather than just survive. Production, if we're not collecting and we're not profitable, it does not matter. And I go to a lot of business conferences and I love, they're like, yeah, my business did 10 million last year. My business is 100 million. And I'm always like, I don't care. What's your profit margin? And a lot of them come back. I remember there was this guy and we were chatting and he has a $30 million business and yet his profit margin was 5%. And he's like, Carrie, you're honestly probably taking home more than I am.
on a smaller business. And so again, I don't care about your production and top line number. It does play a role, but what I care more about is are you profitable and are you obsessed with being as profitable as possible? Are you reviewing your PNL every single quarter? Are you looking at small cashflow leaks? Are we making sure that we're collecting the money of what we produce? Are we making sure that our write-offs and our insurance is correct? Are we making sure our hygiene department is... ⁓
appropriate and are we using like KPIs to track this and to measure this to make sure that we're actually doing it. So that's kind of within the earning section for little highlighted episodes for you. And so then some thoughts to wrap that up would be if you're producing more but taking home less, what number are you not watching in your practice? So really look at that and see, gosh, like I'm producing this, but I'm not taking home as much. What number or numbers are you not watching that maybe you should start watching Food for Thought and
put it into play, you'll be much happier when you're profitable. And then last but not least, this is one that everybody obsessed with, systems. We want systems care. Please, please give me systems. I just want my practice to run on autopilot. And like the answer is like, yes, we should put systems in. And I think about like McDonald's and Chick-fil-A and they're able to give a very incredible experience with systems. And Walt Disney said like, he's able to create predictable magic with the systems behind the scenes. And so for you and your practice, how can you create predictable experiences?
predictable revenue, predictable production through the systems. So a couple of great episodes that we had with systems, systemization I think is like sexy and not sexy, like cool, that's great. But like really, if you focus on you first, then you focus on the numbers, you then know which systems to put into place. So you don't have to actually do all the systems. People are like, here, I just need a whole systems like repertoire. And I'm like, no, you don't. You need the systems that are actually gonna get you the results. I believe that we should focus on results, not on busy work.
So a couple episodes that kind of just highlight some systems for you are episode 381 Systemization: Where to Start? It's a really good episode for you of like how to like you don't just build 100 SOPs just like we were talking about. You literally start with the systems that are going to impact your revenue and profitability first. And those are the ones we're going to build right away. So a good one to help you prioritize that because a lot of times it can feel very daunting. Like I'm trying to eat an elephant. So where do I start? ⁓ Episode 872 Are Your Systems Outdated? And so with that one, just because it worked in the past,
You gotta also update the systems. Do we have a new software? Do we have a new process? A lot of times these systems get like written and we're so excited we made our ops manual, but they get put on a shelf and cool, we never even touched them again. So making sure that you keep your systems up to date, that they're current, that everybody's using them and if you actually are using them, they don't get outdated. So having a set cadence and process for that. Episode 881, Priority Scheduling: Ideal Week and Ideal Schedules
So figuring out like, does our ideal week look like? What are our ideal schedules look like? And so with that, we can figure out how to schedule and do block scheduling to actually build, like that's a great system to put into place to help us get our profitability, to help us get our production, to then help us get the life that we want. So do you see how like the yes model at like, we start at the top with you, go to earnings, go to systems, and then we work on systems to impact the profit and production to impact you and your life. So really I'm obsessed with block scheduling. I obsessed with?
I deal weeks, I'm obsessed with being a master of time rather than time mastering you and really helping offices realize what needs to happen and prioritize. think prioritization is a really tricky thing for a lot of people and having a consultant or an outside view help you out, I think is something really magical. And then last but not least, episode 959, Build a Practice That Can Run Without You. This is what people ask for all the time. And so I love on this. You'll never have true freedom.
if the business only runs when you're there. And so looking at that of, like I said, Disney, Walt's not there and it's still able to run. Chick-fil-A, I don't even know who the owner is, you guys know, but like it's able to run without the owner being there. And so the owner I feel creates the vision and the magic. That's like what your secret sauce is. But the systems are so people can run and operate without you there. And for office managers, same thing with you. I hate the like, if you got hit by a bus, I'm like, I don't ever want to be hit by a bus.
So instead I'm like, if you were at home with a broken leg and then had two office managers literally be out with broken legs. So, ⁓ but I think it's a great example. So watch out, don't break your legs. But I said, if you were out, could the practice run and could you know that the practice isn't running, AKA with your KPI scorecard and being able to look at your numbers, would you know what system needs to be implemented and if systems were being followed or not when you're at home? And so oftentimes that helps you figure out, again, we look at our numbers to see which systems do we need to put into place.
But then beyond that, we're also going to look and say, all right, so these are the numbers that are telling us we have a broken system. But then when you're not there, does the practice still run without you? And does it still operate? And if you were to come in as a fly on a wall on a vacation, so pretend you're out on vacation, I surely have done this to my team. I'm out on vacation. I pop in a day earlier than they think I'm supposed to be back. Is the practice running the way that it should? That's how you know you have great systems and great leadership.
I don't believe that just good systems will create a great practice. You also need great leadership to ensure that they're staying accountable, that they're following systems, but also making sure that less is more. ⁓ The KISS model, keep it simple, silly. I prefer silly over stupid. But really look to see where are maybe the systems that we need to do. And I love in Dental A Team, we do our 12 systems. And that's something I really love to just kind of give an outline of which ones per month.
would help out. So just a quick overview of Dental A Team's systems for success. We say that January is office management, mastery and leadership. And if you guys want to go back in the archives, Tip and I actually did like, I think it was from November through December a few years ago, we went through every single one of these systems. We broke it down. We gave tactical tips for you on those. So January is office management, mastery and leadership. February is doctor optimization, making sure we're utilizing and maximizing everything within the office. March is billing with ease.
April is five-star patient experience, May is smooth scaling scheduling, June is maximized case acceptance, July is dynamite dental assistance, August is elevated hygiene, September is competent marketing, October is complete operations manual, November is practice profitability, and December is A-Team hiring and onboarding. And so utilizing these systems for you to look to see, and again, there's, that's kind of like a category overview, but looking to see where maybe some systems broken within that category.
that ultimately could impact our profit and production that ultimately impact us as individuals. And doctors, I know I highlighted you a lot about you as a person, but also your team members as human beings too. How can we make it easier? How can we make it more fun? How can we make it to where we have more fun at work, more enjoyable rather than more stress? I think is something super, super important. And so when you look at this, I think to wrap up our system section, what systems or system category in your practice
still depends on you and is it keeping you stuck in your practice or preventing the growth? Are you the bottleneck in an area? And to maybe just ask yourself, what is that and what's holding me back? So really, truly just some fun, like, my gosh, you guys, after a thousand episodes, ⁓ I think I can confidently come on here and say that the formula for growth hasn't changed. I think we've gotten smarter. We figured out what's the priority. How do we prioritize it for you?
the $5 million practices, the $2 million, the $1 million, the 500,000, the startup practice, they say yes to leadership clarity, profit strategy, and systems that scale. So that's you, right? Leadership clarity, you as a person being happy, earnings, profit strategy, and as systems for success that scale. Now again, systems that scale, so you're able to grow and you have options. This is truly what I think is so valuable, and I thought.
on a thousandth episode, we've got to have something very powerful, very impactful, giving you just kind of a recap of all the time together. Talk about how magical it is to be able to be here together, to be able to share. And what I will say is, ⁓ I'm obsessed with helping offices be able to say yes to more of their life, to be able to say yes to more of what they want, and to be able to get back their time, their team, their life. And that's something that I'm just obsessed with. So if you're looking for help with that, if you...
I want more yes in your life and less stress and more happiness. Truly I do believe and I've seen it work with hundreds of offices and something just so powerful to be able to share, to give to you. And I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for making the Dental A Team podcast real. Thank you for being listeners. Thank you for sharing this podcast with so many of your friends. Thank you for commenting. Thank you for tagging us while you're driving to work. Thank you for being dedicated listeners. Thank you for being clients that work with us.
Thank you for truly wanting to change and impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. It is truly an honor. I just feel so honored and I'm so freaking excited for the next thousand. So let's do it, let's rock. And at the end of the day, all of you, I want you truly remembering that dentistry is the greatest profession we could ever be a part of. I want you saying yes to more. If we can help you in any way, reach out [email protected]. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.
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Kiera is joined by Mark Rasmussen, CEO of Moolah, to talk about the landscape of credit card fees and how to reduce them, membership discount plans, and other bonus features offered by the dental payment tech company.
(Pssst, Mark was last on episode 866, It’s Time to Modernize Payment Processing!)
Episode resources:
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Transcript
Kiera Dent (00:00)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I am super jazzed because I have a guest here who's going to help us with cashflow leaks, modernizing your practice, figuring out those membership plans, all the things that you need and want. We're going to talk about some case studies. This is one of my absolute favorite guests, Mark Rasmussen, CEO, owner, founder, Moolah. How are you today, Mark? Welcome to the show.
Mark Rasmussen (00:22)
Hey, Kara, I'm doing fantastic. I'm doing awesome. So, so, so it's connected with you and your listeners and excited to get into all this juicy good stuff about revenue and payments and modernizing things. Let's do it. I love it.
Kiera Dent (00:31)
Yeah.
Let's
do it. So I have a slight crush on Moolah. Like truly you guys like just make credit card processing easy. And so what I want to start off, if you guys don't listen, Mark and I have done other podcasts in the past together. ⁓ But I don't know, Mark, what you guys say on your email subject lines, like on your little, what is it your signature, but I feel like it should be like your new favorite credit card processing company. Like that's what I feel like Moolah's tagline should be because I wanted to do a couple case studies with you since we last chatted.
Mark Rasmussen (00:40)
Hahaha
Kiera Dent (01:05)
⁓ Mark knows, like, I do have a crush on Moolah. I try to get them to come and be our processor too.
Mark Rasmussen (01:10)
I need to like soundbite clip that,
like I have a crush on Moolah just like everywhere in social. I love that.
Kiera Dent (01:15)
I
do. do because I like companies that make things easy, but also are like the cheapest on the market and credit card fees are one of my biggest beefs. Like really truly I get annoyed when I look to see how much credit card fees are charging. And when you guys, ⁓ deadly team listeners, just so you know, I'm going to throw it out there. Like anybody who goes through our link literally saves 10 basis points. ⁓
on it, which is huge to get anywhere in the credit card industry. So you're getting below that 2.99. So you're getting 2.89 on cards not present and 2.39. And I hope that Mark, I'm allowed to say that because I'm just going to be bold and brazen. And if not, we'll cut that out. So don't stress about that.
Mark Rasmussen (01:52)
No, no, no, for sure. And
not only that, it's like, that's not just a like teaser rate, like they look, your practices will get that preferred rate forever, right, which is awesome. And, and it's like you and I were talking a little bit earlier, too, of like, a bit of shock and awe of like, I and myself as well, I've been seeing like some statements from potential practices. And I'm like, ⁓ my God, I'm like, I'm seeing like,
Kiera Dent (02:03)
which is so big and you don't add extra heat.
Mark Rasmussen (02:19)
six, seven, eight percent, like net effective rates. I know you were saying you have been seeing even higher. It's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. It's almost criminal.
Kiera Dent (02:25)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so it
does feel criminal because like here's the thing like you might get a cheaper rate somewhere else but when you look and dig into the details and this is where it feels annoying and obnoxious to me and doesn't happen right away it happens like when you've stopped looking at it you're like I've checked my credit card company for years they don't do anything and then all of a sudden it starts creeping up and being eerie and that's where I just get annoyed and that's why like I have a crush on Moolah because you guys don't do it and you guys stay consistent for it so
I felt Mark and I, you didn't listen to our last podcast, we'll definitely link it in the show notes for you. But Mark, I felt we should kick today off with some case studies because I have some clients that I've recommended over to Moolah. And I think my favorite one is we were looking and I had a practice and our overhead was high. So like this practice, they don't love to like look at numbers. They have an amazing CPA. Like I will say we do look at numbers, but they're kind of like, yeah, carry it. We'll just like out produce our problems a little bit. And that's fine. Like anybody can have that. But I said, Hey,
Mark Rasmussen (03:17)
Alright.
Kiera Dent (03:21)
Your credit card fees are really high. think that they were honestly like 10%. And I'm like, is that really true? Like that just seems outlandish. And they said, well, Kiera, we're in a contract. Mark, do you want to throw up with contracts? Tell me about credit card contracts.
Mark Rasmussen (03:33)
Oh, I hate contracts. I hate contracts
like really in anything in my life. I don't know. So yeah, but that's, it's just crazy. The industry for the longest time has like felt the need to like lock these business owners and not just Dennis, but business owners in like these typically it's like three year contracts. And then, you know, they'll have like termination fees. And so they take advantage of that. And like you were saying, I talked to so many practices are like, Oh, I'm paying X and you know, they were paying X the first month that they signed up.
And then they didn't look at it, like you said, and then six months later, eight months later, the processor started like nudging it up, nudging it up, nudging it up. And to the point where when you look at what their rates are, you know, two years from when they signed up, it's like almost 180 degrees difference. So yeah, please you guys out there, please make sure you stay on your credit card processing. Look at those month end statements. Look at, you know, what is being nudged up because
Kiera Dent (04:19)
Yeah.
Mark Rasmussen (04:28)
You know, they'll just slip it in a little statement message. They're not forthcoming about it. I promise you they're not like, shooting you multiple emails or calling you and be like, hey, we're going to increase your rate. No, no, no, no, no. They're going to slip it under the table and hope that you never pay attention to it, which is really what happens because you guys are all busy. You guys are all doing amazing care on patients and you're not paying attention to that. That's the reality.
Kiera Dent (04:49)
And it's creepy to me because it's also done on things that don't make sense. Like I feel like reading a credit card statement with what they're charging is like reading very highly processed foods. And I'm like, I have no clue what 90 % of these words are. And I feel like it's the same thing when you come to a credit card statement. And so back to this practice, what we did, there's two case studies I wanted to bring to the table today that are my own personal clients that I've referred over to Moolah that I signed up with Moolah. So this practice, again, overhead, let's out produce our problems.
Mark Rasmussen (05:00)
That's a good comparison, I like that.
Kiera Dent (05:18)
And it was wild because the first month they switched to Moolah, their CPA sent a letter to all of us and said like, hey, what'd you do? Did you switch credit card companies? Your fees are so much lower. Like that fast first month drop down. So we went from about a 10 % fee on what they're producing and collecting to then dropping it down to this 2.89 to 2.39, depending upon if card was present or not, which is super awesome also because then you can get cards.
Mark Rasmussen (05:28)
guys.
Kiera Dent (05:44)
on auto renew, like on just processing internally and you don't have to, like you can have cards present or not present within the practice, which is so awesome. ⁓ But I was shocked like that fast. And then another practice that we brought to Moolah, they were locked in with another credit card company. And so I didn't know you couldn't do this, Mark. So this was like rookie mistake on me. Like I was, I'm scrappy and I thought, well, okay, fine. You guys are in a contract. So.
just stop processing through that processor, switch everything over to Moolah. Well, you know this Mark and I was rookie so you know what happens. Do you know what happens with those companies?
Mark Rasmussen (06:21)
No,
listen, I said that a lot too because technically, really, if the practice is in a contract, and I've said that before, you probably have these miscellaneous junk fees, these monthly minimums that are gonna hit maybe 20, $30 a month. But even if you're paying that minimum and you saved thousands over here, who cares? Pay that minimum, just write that contract out. What happened here in this scenario? Okay.
Kiera Dent (06:44)
That was exactly what I said too. So
that's what, cause I was like, why not? I thought the exact same thing. I'm like, okay, if we're looking at, you're able to save 3%, 4 % like higher amounts and we're processing, even if you're processing a hundred thousand or 200,000, like that extra two, 3 % do the math. Like that's surely going to offset the cost. Well, what happened is we actually did that. So a client signed up with you guys. They did that. And we got a letter from the other processor saying,
Mark Rasmussen (06:54)
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (07:11)
that, we have a minimum and if we don't hit it, it was going to be substantial and to get out of contract, it was going to cost us a thousand dollars. So we literally said, fine, take the thousand dollars because we'd already saved that much through Moolah's savings to be able to like, we're just like, like it's a done deal. Like they were trying to threaten them with this thousand dollar fee, but we were like, that's so minimal to get us out of this contract based on how much we were saving. Now this practice was processing a decent chunk.
Mark Rasmussen (07:32)
Right. Right.
Kiera Dent (07:38)
But I think even if you're processing like 70,000, 80,000, that one, 2 % stacks up. Like it's insane how much we pay in credit card fees. So those are like the two that I wanted to bring to the, like I said, this is why I have a crush because I hate credit card fees so much. And that's going to lead into our next topic. But Mark, anything you want to add? Cause these were two cases that I've watched since we last met.
Mark Rasmussen (07:45)
yeah.
I love that.
Kiera Dent (08:00)
⁓ I'm constantly on the prowl for cheaper people. I love that you guys don't charge for the terminals. You have it set up the next day. There's no contracts. Like that's where I said, like it's your new favorite, like credit card processing. You don't increase the fees. You give our clients reduced rates. If you have multi locations, you guys also take care of those practices. Like it's amazing what you guys do. So that's my like pitch for Moolah, but if you want to add anything else.
Mark Rasmussen (08:22)
I love that. wanted to, because you just
like rang a memory. So what you were referring to in that practice, right, where like, okay, you can't just skate by and just pay the minimum, right? Or they were gonna hit him with his fee. Well, another thing I'm gonna tell your listeners out there is, listen, if you don't go with Moolah, great, do your homework. But one thing to look out that I've seen in contracts, which is crazy, is that sometimes you'll see a contract, all right, if you cancel early, it's like a 350 termination fee. Okay, fine.
but I've seen others out there where the processor says they try to enforce liquidated damages. So the processor will say, oh, we've been making, you're in a three year contract, on average we're making like, whatever, $500 a month on your processing. If you leave us now, it's not early termination fee, we're gonna calculate that $500 for the remaining 16, 17 months and they hit you with this liquidated damages thing, crazy. So just be on the lookout for that. If you're doing anywhere that's a contract,
Kiera Dent (08:57)
No.
Mark Rasmussen (09:20)
Look out for liquidated damages, that's no bueno, but better yet, find somebody that's just not gonna put you in a contract. Much easier.
Kiera Dent (09:26)
Yeah. And
also like, okay, Mark, help me understand. And maybe you don't know because you guys don't do this and that's okay. But to me, it feels really funny that I signed a contract with them and there's got to be something in the fine print because I'm like, how did they go from what they told me to being able to add all these extra surcharges later on and increase it when we're in a contract?
Mark Rasmussen (09:43)
for sure it's in the fine print.
yeah. It says that any, it basically says that any time at our discretion with 30 days notice, we can make an adjustment to any of your pre-schedule. And so they'll just do that. And then they'll just put a little message, you know, really small font in whatever kind of notification. And you know, in their minds, right? All right, well, we checked off the box. It's super shady. It sucks, but it's, you know, it's out there. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (10:05)
Yeah, it is what it is. And I would say
they'll like look at it because two clients that were in contract, we were able to send over every person that I've sent to you guys have just loved who you are, that it's easy, that it's fast, that it's the cheapest processing. And there's a few other features that I think we should talk about. I feel like I'm on like a Moolah sales pitch right now. Like I'm truly not. I just get giddy. Like if you guys hear me talk about Swell,
Mark Rasmussen (10:27)
Ha
Kiera Dent (10:30)
was Zeke and Google reviews. I have a crush on Swell. They just do Google reviews better than anyone else. And right now, Moolah for sure, you guys are taking the cake on being able to do credit card processing better than any other company that I've come across, which I think is amazing. And so something else that I think is ratcheting fees on practices when we're looking for some of these cashflow leaks is on membership plans. Now, I'm a huge proponent of membership plans. I also think with the economy, with where insurance is reimbursing, ⁓ people are starting to look at like
should we be going out of network? And my big proposal is, hey, yeah, of course, if you want to do that rock on, membership plans really can help with that. But ⁓ there are some membership companies that actually charge pretty outlandish fees. I never wanted to pay for that. I was scrappy in a practice. So what I did is I just charged the patient an annual fee. Well, that was like eight years ago that I was charging an annual fee. And I think you look at today's world, no one wants an annual fee anymore. They just want like a monthly fee and they want it to be low.
Mark Rasmussen (11:02)
for
Right. Right.
Kiera Dent (11:28)
But managing that is nonsense on my own paying for it. And Moolah, like I've heard through the grapevine, you guys are doing something with membership fees. Can we talk about the membership plans? Talk about how you guys do this. Is it easier? Is it something we can do? Because I think membership plans have to come into play with the insurance situation that offices are in. And also possibly a cash leak if you're paying for heavy management fees on your membership plans.
Mark Rasmussen (11:37)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. So listen, membership discount plans. I've since I've been, I've only been in the industry, you know, dental industry for about four years now. And every year I feel like it's getting traction. More practices are asking about us. I have practices that are doing demos with us and they're like, Hey, I'm doing this demo is driving it because I heard you guys do, you know, membership, discount plan management. And so yes, the answer is we do. ⁓
And as you were looking to, there's a lot of great vendors in this space that just do that, right? And I'm not going to name any names, but there's a lot of great vendors, but they're not inexpensive. Like, you know, there's some decent SAS fees and then you pay per patient enrollment. ⁓ And so when it's, you know, when you look at the net net and you're like, okay, is this really making sense? So what's nice is that we have complete membership discount plan management built into the platform. You can create all your plans. ⁓ You can easily onboard the patient into the system.
Kiera Dent (12:21)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mark Rasmussen (12:48)
whether the patient wants to go monthly or annual, like you said, you were doing annual and a lot of the practices that I run into have historically been doing it annually, right? Because to think about billing it on a monthly basis has you like pulling your hair out. But the reality is that the patients and the consumers in the world that we live in, ⁓ everybody looks at whatever they're gonna bring into their life, whether it's a Netflix subscription or it's a car payment or it's anything else, everybody kind of looks at at a monthly basis.
Kiera Dent (13:02)
Too hard.
Mark Rasmussen (13:17)
And so that is what you want to be delivering. And so with the Moolah platform, you can absolutely manage an in-house membership discount plan and offer both annual and monthly options and truly set it and forget it. Not have to think about it. The system's going to run. The system's going to automatically post that payment into the ledger. In open dental, we even go a step further where when you enroll the patient into the membership, not only are we handling the billing element of it,
But we're also going into the PMS and we're associating that patient to that membership discount plan and keeping track. You know, that's what's really doing all the heavy lifting of keeping track of whatever the one free cleaning of the 10 % off services. And we keep that in lockstep. So if there was like a billing issue, we automatically disassociate the patient from the plan to really just kind of make it pain free. you know, membership discount plans are phenomenal. It's a win win for patients and practice. First of all, it brings some really great reoccurring
Kiera Dent (13:51)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mark Rasmussen (14:14)
like trackable revenue into the practice, right? Number two, it's bringing patients like butts in seats ⁓ as well. ⁓ Because the patient looks like, I'm paying $40 a month. I should use it. I should be in there. ⁓ And it's bringing value to the patient. So it's literally just a win-win all around. I really love that for, you know, when you're looking at out of network patients ⁓ and the absolutely, you know, the platform has it built in. So you guys, please, if you're looking at discount plans, memberships,
I encourage you to look at some of the other great vendors out there and then come take a look at us last and see like the value that you get that's included.
Kiera Dent (14:49)
That's awesome. Yeah. And again, like there are so many great people out there that are doing it. I just feel, ⁓ when I heard that you guys were doing membership plans, I was like, well, it kind of makes sense because you're already processing credit cards. Like you're already doing the processing. So now something else that is doing a processing is in my processor, into my software, which I just, that was so incredibly clever. And, ⁓ like again, I had another client who, who scoped you against other companies and they were like, gosh, like there's no fees.
Mark Rasmussen (15:03)
Great.
Kiera Dent (15:17)
compared to other companies with moolah. So that was something I was really excited about. I'm big on just, it's like my insurance. I've been with State Farm forever. And Jason and I giggled, we're like, we need to go and actually like assess and make sure that we're truly getting the best plans. And so I just think like it's good to periodically go and assess and make sure our credit card fees, what they were when we set up.
our membership plans making sense? Is it time to look to possibly renegotiate some certain things? And again, I'm not here to propose one company over another. Like Mark said, do your homework, figure out what's best because there's so many great companies out there. I just really love when it's simple and easy. And that's something I love about you guys, Mark, you guys have the fact that we can send patient statements and like have payments online and they can pay it all times of the day. Like just that alone boosts offices, collections with Moulin. So Mark, I want to go into a dicey topic with you though.
because this one's hot. We had it in our in-person ⁓ doctor and leadership mastermind when we were in Arizona and I loved it. It was like a hot, hot topic and heads up like this might be awkward for you. I don't think it will because of who you are, but there's the question of, and it was hot, like the room was split of people who were pro and con. So the question is with credit card fees being as much as they were, we talked about at the beginning, like ways that we can reduce it.
Mark Rasmussen (16:10)
Let's do it.
I know, I wanna hear what the feedback was, because I know where you're going.
Kiera Dent (16:40)
Then we talked about reducing membership plans. Now there's a question of, should we actually charge patients the credit card fees? Like this is becoming really popular and I don't blame businesses because inflation's high, labor is higher. So now we're trying to figure out like where could we cut? And so people are like, well, sweet, we're just gonna pass on the credit card fees to our patients. And the room was spicy. There was like people that were so pro and people that like literally people were bristly and it was a...
Mark Rasmussen (17:05)
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (17:06)
It was quite interesting. So your credit card company, which is where I feel like it's a little awkward to ask you this question, but I want to know, we pro, are we con? Should we charge the patients from your perspective? We're in 2025. So many companies do this. Should people be charging patients the credit card fee? Should they just raise their fees and bake it in? Like, what are your thoughts on this? Because my room was 50 50 split. And I will tell you some of the feedback if you want to hear it, cause it was quite interesting.
Mark Rasmussen (17:13)
Yeah.
Okay, okay.
I do. Okay, so the first
thing I want to point out is I expect you to say that the room is split, right? Like half of them are like, yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm not paying for my patients' reward points. And I think the other half of the room was like, yeah, but I'm worried about the optics. Does it look like we're trying to be cheesy or nickel and diming our patients, right? Those are the two ends that are battling each other. The interesting thing is that this hot topic, ⁓ if you would have asked that just three years ago,
Kiera Dent (17:38)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. No.
Mark Rasmussen (18:01)
it wouldn't have been 50 50. It
would have been like 80 90 % saying no way and 10 % made me do it. So the trend is is like it is going right and two or three years from now I have a feeling it's going to be like 80 % are doing it and 20 % are not doing it. So the cat is out of the bag. Let's just get that you know right out there in the open. What do I think about it? I'm to be super Switzerland about this and I'm going to say that I think
Kiera Dent (18:06)
Agreed. 100 % agree.
I would agree with you.
Remember he's
a credit card processing company.
Mark Rasmussen (18:31)
Well,
no, I'm going to say that I think that as a vendor who delivers credit card processing service, I think that I should enable our practices to make that choice for themselves. I think whatever you think you should do for your practice, I want to support it. So if you don't want to do surcharging, great, we love that. If you do want to do surcharging, great, I love that. I just want to give the tools to the practice so they can make that decision. Now, aside what I think about it,
It's a very interesting topic to talk about. Well, what is the net result? I like, all right, how does it work? What does it save? Let's get into it if I may. Okay, so there's a couple ways. There is absolutely there. There is, and there's a couple flavors to this. There's a couple flavors to this. ⁓ there, the, the, what that we do, let me talk about that first. So what we do is what's referred to as compliance surcharging and with compliance surcharging, what is, what you're doing is that
Kiera Dent (19:06)
I agree. Cause like, are there rules around it? Like, you actually have to do anything? Okay. I have no idea. Okay.
Mark Rasmussen (19:28)
When a customer's paying you with a credit card, the system, system, I'll just speak to our system, most others are similar, but when a patient is paying you, whether it's in practice on the device or whether you sent a text to pay or it's an online payment, our system automatically, real time, looks at the number that the patient put in or used on the terminal. And within a half a second, we're looking back at the credit card network before we even charge it, and we say, is this a credit or is this a debit? If the patient is paying with a credit card,
We then pop on the screen, either on their mobile device or on the terminal, we say, hey, we see you're using a credit card. We're going to add 2.99 % as a fee to you for using a credit card. If you want to use a debit card, you will avoid that fee. So in Compliance Surcharging, what I really like about that is that you're not charging us fee across debit and credit, right? You're still giving your patient the convenience of being able to pay with plastic.
Kiera Dent (20:19)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Rasmussen (20:25)
and still use a debit card because the reality is if you have a credit card in your wallet, there's probably 99 % chance you've got a Visa debit card in your wallet as well. And so you're not pulling away that convenience of them being able to pay plastic and just saying, hey, if you want to avoid that fee, pay cash or check. That's kind of archaic. So with compliance surcharging, you are going to offload your credit card fees to the patient, only the credit card fees. When they pay with a debit card, you will still pay for that, okay?
Kiera Dent (20:43)
I agree.
Mark Rasmussen (20:55)
With doing that with Moolah, if you're going to pay the debit fee and not pay the credit card fee, we see that the overall net effective rate for the practice ends up being below 1%. It ends up being like, I'm going to throw out a weird term that people are going, what the heck is that? It's usually going to be around 75 or 80 basis points. About three quarters of 1 % is going to be your net overall cost, which is huge savings, right? Huge savings.
Kiera Dent (21:07)
No.
Crazy, like insane. Just do
some math. If you did a million dollars and you were able to basically save, gosh, so much.
Mark Rasmussen (21:28)
No, let's just say,
the reality is you're probably saving one and a half percent. So on a million dollar practice, that practice is gonna put about $15,000 back to their bottom line. Like, and that's it, and it was painless. And you're still not really, yeah, exactly.
Kiera Dent (21:37)
Exactly.
And that's also for payments you're already collecting. Like this is already
money we're collecting, we just get to keep more of it rather than having the credit card processing fee.
Mark Rasmussen (21:47)
Yes.
And it doesn't need to like, you know, break brain cells for you to try and figure it out. Like the system is going to automatically calculate it. We're going to organize it. ⁓ It's just, it's painless. We're handling it in the PMS correctly. listen, the savings cannot be ignored. Like we talked about the cats out of the bag. You're going to see more businesses across more different verticals. ⁓ And the reality is
We've all been around it for a long, long time, right? Who's been doing it forever? Gas stations, right? We've seen it on there. Cash credit, right? That's been there forever. And we're all used to it. And you also typically see a lot when you're dealing with like state or federal agencies, you ever gone on and make an online tax payment, they usually charge a fee there. So it's just now getting more, you know, ⁓ rolling out. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (22:40)
Nail salons for the girls out there. We all know the
nail salons. They'll say like, it's a 3 % charge if you use credit card. I'm like, here's your cash. Like it's clever. They push us to what they want.
Mark Rasmussen (22:49)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
So it is listen. So I, I believe in delivering the technology to our clients, I don't have an opinion one way or the other, whatever you feel is good. I will tell you though that I think a lot of practices, especially on the on the one half of the room that are like against it. I think what we're finding is that people are not pushing back as much as
you think they are because consumers are just getting used to it. And again, the fact that at least with our practices, you're still giving your patient the ability to have that convenience and pay with a debit card and not have the fee. If they were doing like the model where they call it, know, cash discount, where you're going to hit the debit card and you're going to hit the credit card, I think you get more pushback on that, but you're still giving that convenience. So yeah, I'm a fan of it. We get, like I said, more and more requests of it. ⁓
It's not going anywhere. yeah, we're here to support your practice. If you guys want to try it out, try it out and listen, here's the thing.
Kiera Dent (23:50)
Yeah.
How does it work in practice
though? Like, so someone's standing in front of me at a terminal, I'm collecting money in person. How does this work? Because it's not gonna pop up on my like treatment plan that I just gave them or on my ledger. So how do I do that?
Mark Rasmussen (24:00)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It'll pop up on the terminal.
so first thing we do, we give the practices, ⁓ you know, some template messaging and they'll just want to put up something by the front desk. And it says something to the effect of that, you know, this office adds a surcharge when using a credit card, ⁓ not beyond, you know, what our costs are, right? This is not a money, additional money revenue is trying to like, you know, make arbitrage between costs and no, I'm only going to pass off. And so.
Kiera Dent (24:32)
Great.
Mark Rasmussen (24:35)
the patient is aware of it, they've seen it, and then when they go to use it on the terminal, if they're in practice, when they go to run the credit card, it will pop up on the screen and your team can just show it to the patient, they'll see it, that it's adding it because they're using the credit card. And it'll give them an option if they want to accept it or if they want to back out of it and try again with a debit card and avoid the fee, really easy.
Kiera Dent (24:58)
Okay, that's actually really helpful. And now I have a question because I don't know this. How does this work? Because technically the practice is collecting more money, right? Like we are taking the fee plus the credit card fee. ⁓
Mark Rasmussen (25:10)
Let's say it's $100 and let's just say we're
adding that surcharge so now it's $103. Okay? Yeah. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (25:14)
Right, so that's $3 more per $100 transaction. But
does that impact them in tax? I would think no, because credit card companies still charging us the 3%. Like, how does this work? Are you following what I'm saying? how does this impact you?
Mark Rasmussen (25:26)
Yeah, I do. So you
don't have anything else to like, you know, break your brain on that. Our system, first of all, will break out the surcharge in the reporting. Okay. So it's really clean. Furthermore, the addition, the $103, right, like the customer got charged, the patient got charged $103. But our system automatically calculates it, that you have a fee of 3 % and that you surcharge the patient 3%. So the practice is still just going to get the full $100.
Kiera Dent (25:36)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mark Rasmussen (25:56)
It's as if they took a cash payment. So it's easy for them. They're not getting 10.99 at the $103, so to speak. It's just still truly only taking $100, which is great.
Kiera Dent (25:57)
Gotcha. Okay.
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Yeah, because that's what
I was curious like, and like some things have sales tax. So didn't know like surcharges, do they get taxed differently or is it just like accepting cash, same thing for a practice? Okay. Now, so that's really helpful. And that helps me see on the ledger. So are you guys synced into the PMS for it to say, because like if my ledger says a hundred dollars, but I'm now doing 3 % surcharge on it.
Mark Rasmussen (26:18)
Exactly, total amount, total amount, yeah.
Yes.
Kiera Dent (26:35)
I'm going to be posting $103. How do I make sure that all of my ledgers match up?
Mark Rasmussen (26:40)
So
we'll post $100 in the ledger, okay? And then we'll have a procedure code for the surcharge. And then we'll also have an offsetting so that it doesn't mess up your balance. So you can easily run reports based on the procedure code. I can see what my surcharge is, but it's not messing up and showing that, I took in $103 on this $100 transaction. So your ledger is gonna stay nice and clean.
and not be a nightmare, 100%.
Kiera Dent (27:10)
Okay,
because that's I was like, Oh, great. Because there was another office that I heard about. And Mark, I'm just curious about your opinion on this. And then we're gonna get back to this like spicy and thanks for walking through this. There was another practice, I've literally never heard of this before. So I'm curious if you have or if you recommend or don't this practice. So let's say a patient, the total is $100, they pay the $100, the practice literally posted on the ledger.
Mark Rasmussen (27:28)
Mm-hmm.
Kiera Dent (27:38)
instead of being $100 because now they lost $3, they posted $97 on the ledger and they were taking out the surcharge. Have you ever heard of that? Because I had never heard it. I was, do you recommend that? Because I've never recommended that, right? And I think as a patient, I'd feel really angry though. no, I gave you 100 bucks, but you gave me 97. Like I would just.
Mark Rasmussen (27:48)
I haven't.
That seems wonky. Yeah.
Right. Or
continue that on. How about now all of a sudden a week later you go to refund it and we're we're refunding you 97. You're like, no, no, no, I paid you 100. It's gonna be messed up in so many levels.
Kiera Dent (28:09)
Right. I was just curious.
I was like, I mean, maybe I'm archaic on how I do this. I used to just do it that way and then accept that that would just be a cost on my PNL. But now there's a way for you to actually offset it with the process. So my question is going back to that, that's actually helpful. Thank you. So if you're doing that, definitely recommend not doing that anymore. ⁓ But I was like, Hey, I've never heard of this. Maybe that is the right way to do the accounting on it. But it felt very messy to me. Now,
Do we as the practice need to put in the surcharge as that procedure code when we're charging that out or does Moolah automatically sync it in and put the surcharge of the procedure code?
Mark Rasmussen (28:48)
We have, yeah,
automatically done. There's nothing for you to do. Yeah. So during onboarding, we will set up, we will work with the practice, obviously. We'll make sure that we have a procedure code set up for them. And so during the onboarding, we'll have that so that when you do run a surcharge transaction like that, there's nothing you need to do. It'll all be handled in the ledger correctly.
Kiera Dent (28:51)
Amazing. I love it. This is why I said I have a preference on you.
and you're in all softwares. What softwares does Moolah sink into?
Mark Rasmussen (29:10)
Yes, so ⁓ Open Dental, ⁓ Dentrix, G7, and ⁓ newer server-based, not Ascend. And we're actually going to be ⁓ releasing, finally, this has been a long time coming, we're finally going live with Eagle Soft ⁓ Beta at end of next week. So Open Dental, Dentrix, and Eagle Soft. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (29:28)
Awesome.
That's awesome. Okay, very cool. And
then if you're not in one of those and you can just obviously add this in, it wouldn't be automatically synced. And I think like of those ones though, huge win this way. Okay, now we'll go back to the spicy. I will tell you guys how the room was divided. The room was divided, I'll be right. The do it, don't do it. And then the like, there's a middle ground, which I thought the middle ground was kind of convenient. ⁓ There wasn't, but I did see people like it. I did feel like it was like,
Mark Rasmussen (29:45)
Yes.
Was there any physical fighting going on? Okay.
Kiera Dent (30:00)
like politics and religion status. Like it was like very cut through the room. I do agree with you. And that's what I said. I was like, you guys, this 2025, this is going to take place in the future and it will be very common. just, think our early adopters going to stay or not. It's your choice. Um, I've always been of the opinion like, no, just bake it into your fee. And now I'm like, well, everybody's starting to charge for it. Like, why not? Um, so it was don't charge for it now. Another was like, no, put it in. People are doing it anyway. And the middle ground, which I thought was
Mark Rasmussen (30:02)
Right. Right, right, right.
Kiera Dent (30:30)
of a good way to do it is in person. They didn't charge a fee, but any of their online statements, they did charge a fee because they said most people who pay online know there's usually a service fee associated with it. So I thought that was kind of a, an easy way. If you guys are looking for a navigation through it. ⁓ but I think like, honestly, it's just like anything else, train your patients if you want to, but don't feel like you have to, I think it'd just be something to consider. So, but again,
Like get the reduction, like if nothing else, like switch to a processor that's going to be reduced fees anyway. So even if you want to continue offering it, you're still saving on that. Mark, I have one last thing that I wanted to dive into. I'm hearing from a lot of like integrated softwares. So like dental Intel and Flex and some of these other ones that literally make practice lives easier. They're having processors in there that are just integrated right into that. They're using it all the time.
Mark Rasmussen (31:20)
Yeah.
Kiera Dent (31:25)
How does Moolah play in those worlds? Like, do you get the same pricing? Do we not get the same pricing? Are some of those better because they're already bundled in? Again, I'm putting you on like really awkward topics, but I just want to know. I want to know how does this work.
Mark Rasmussen (31:35)
No, no, not at all. So listen, you mentioned Flex. We
love Flex, okay? I love Flex, not just because, yes, they're a partner of ours, right? And yes, your Mool account works beautifully and integrated with Flex. But I love Flex just because I think they're like cut from the same cloth that we are. Like we just, at the end of the day, we want to over-deliver, right? We want to over-deliver, whether it's technology, whether it's value, and they have that mindset. And so I love the Flex team. Full disclosure.
⁓ And so we've been an integrated partner with Flex for, gosh now, I think three years. So yeah, I think they deliver a ton of value to any open dental practice. So anybody out there for sure should check out Flex. They are amazing. Dental Intel. So we used to be, ⁓ not to bore the audience, but like we used to have an integration with Modento and then Dental Intel acquired Modento.
Kiera Dent (32:33)
Yep.
Mark Rasmussen (32:33)
and
then Dental Intel wanted to roll up their own integrated credit card processing. And so they have now. so, listen, ⁓ we wish Dental Intel the best, wish them well, but yeah, we're no longer integrated with Dental Intel, but yeah, Flex, we love Flex.
Kiera Dent (32:49)
Okay, because I was just curious. Now, I feel if it's bundled, is this a time where offices should just be strategic? I'm not saying anyone's doing it. I haven't looked at it. So I'm not here to like cast judge or I just want to make sure offices are being smart. I would think when they're bundled or they're integrated, offices should still check even using MULA. They should still be watching their credit card statements every single month, right? Like no matter what, just to always make sure things are staying clean and also before we sign up with anybody.
Mark Rasmussen (33:08)
Mm-hmm.
100%.
Kiera Dent (33:19)
Like literally read the fine print and look for it. Yes. No. I from like, let's just go all the way back.
Mark Rasmussen (33:23)
Yeah.
And I would always say that, you know, let's just take the Flex example. Flex has, you and I won't name anything, I'll let you guys out there, you go check it out to yourself, but there are three options. I encourage you, especially when we're talking about a vendor that you're looking at, and especially when this vendor that you're looking at revolves around your cashflow, right? Like it's a pretty integral part of a vendor that you're bringing into your ecosystem. call them, talk to them.
Kiera Dent (33:46)
Mm-hmm.
Mark Rasmussen (33:54)
Call in the middle of the day. Do they pick up the phone? Do they answer? Can you talk to somebody very easily? Like really pop the hood and take a look at who you're going to get in and do business with, especially when it's, you know, that vendor is like controlling your cash flow on a daily basis. So yes, please you guys out there, do your homework, look at the agreements, ask questions, and see what's right for you. Yeah.
Kiera Dent (34:10)
Yeah.
That's awesome. just, again,
I wanted to like go into it because these are things I'm hearing. I'm hearing people say like, this seamlessly integrates. I know you seamlessly integrate. I know you guys are constantly working to refine, to get into more and more practice management softwares to make it easier. Just Mark, as we wrap up, like this has been fun. I love the like, thanks for going into some of the spices with me. ⁓ But just as a quick rundown, like what are some of the features that Moola does? We talked about the membership plans. We did talk about that Dental A Team clients get 10 % basis points less for card present or card not present.
Mark Rasmussen (34:33)
Always is.
Yep.
Kiera Dent (34:47)
Which to me that alone, I would just look into it and see, like I said, two clients literally saved money by like dumping their contracts and moving over, which I think to me, like before I can have a crush on a company, I test them pretty heavily. So to see the proof in the pudding, I was so just elated and it made me even like you guys more. But what else does Moola do? Because I know you guys do a lot of other things that just make life easy.
Mark Rasmussen (35:05)
I love that. yeah, yeah. So
at the end of the day, we do a lot, but it's all payment related and will always be payment related, right? So we're focused on being like, we try to be like the end all be all payment solution for dentists. And so when you look at like, what does a dental office need from a payment perspective, ⁓ it's in practice payments, right? So we provide you guys the physical devices. So
No more having to buy rent or lease those terminals. We're going to include them. you know, not only, yeah, they're wireless. Yeah, they're really cool. Aesthetically, they look really good. Yeah. And, and here's the other great part too, that I think it's kind of underrated ⁓ is of course, not only did we include them. the practice didn't need to buy them, but like normally, you know, with our peers, you have to buy these devices and then you buy them and then it's like one year warranty, right? And then like Murphy's law always kicks in.
Kiera Dent (35:37)
They're awesome too. They're portable. They can go back to the hygiene operatories. It's amazing. So your hygienist can take it. Like they're awesome. It's so great.
Mark Rasmussen (36:01)
like it loves to do. like, okay, month 14, the device just, you know, went out on you. And then you're gonna sorry, you got to buy another five $600 device with mula you guys will literally never have hardware expense ever because we give them to you on the front end. And we will warranty them forever. As long as you're with us. I don't care four or five, six years. If there's new devices that come out and your guys age out, we're going to replace them. Even if you drop it off the counter and crack the screen.
We don't care, we're gonna replace it for you. There's no fear or premium. So, in practice payments, we have you covered there from a technology standpoint as well as a hardware standpoint. Moving on, there's also, have the ability to, like you were talking about earlier, store patient cards securely tokenized. Nothing's ever touching the practices servers. It's all on our servers, but it's giving you the convenience of having those stored cards for the patient. You can have as many stored cards as you want. You can even send a request to the patient.
before their appointment and the patient from easily from home from their mobile device could add their credit card. And so when they come in, it's already stored and it's available to use. So stored cards, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kiera Dent (37:07)
With that, can I ask, do you guys have
the compliance paperwork? Is there anything you have to do to get a patient to have a stored credit card that we can run for future payments? once insurance pays, because I know that's a big thing of storing cards on file, do you have anything with that? Because I know that this is a zone.
Mark Rasmussen (37:23)
Yep. What I...
Yeah, no. So it's very obvious as far as the process of the patient adding the card. Like when you send the message, it says, hey, would you like to securely store your card on file? Right? Beyond that, what I've seen some practices do is just they'll just include it in their overall like new patient intake forms and kind of include it in their terms of service of that. Hey, listen, if you want to store a card on file with us, you can. And you allow, once you store a card, you're giving us the authorization to utilize that card.
Kiera Dent (37:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mark Rasmussen (37:51)
for other future balances. As simple as that, that's all you need to do.
Kiera Dent (37:54)
which is so smart you
guys think about it. This is where so many other industries do this. They have a card on file. I mean, I go to the spa, my cards on file, they run that card when I'm gone, like I authorize it to happen. So they never out of money. They're never chasing money down. Like it just to me makes so much more sense of a way to process.
Mark Rasmussen (38:12)
Can you imagine if
Netflix or all the other subscriptions, if they had to wait for a payment every month and wait, come on, no. Subscription is the way, 100%. So, okay, so store card on file they get. The other thing they get is the ability to create and manage in-house payment plans. And of course, automatically post those payments to the ledger. We have some great things where if the payment fails, right? They're into the plan for three months and all of sudden the July payment fails.
Kiera Dent (38:18)
No. No.
Yeah.
Mark Rasmussen (38:41)
our system will automatically notify the practice, notify the patient, and what's cool is that the software will allow the patient to self-administer and fix it. So the software is not telling the patient, your card failed, call the front desk. No, we're gonna save a phone call there. The software will allow the patient to tell the software, okay, either A, try to charge that card again, or B, they can actually upload a new card on file.
So the cool stat on that is that in failed transactions in our payment plans, we see patients solving it between themselves and software within the first 24 hours at a rate of over 80%, which is huge. So payment plans, and then we talked about earlier, you also get the ability to manage any of your in-house membership or discount plans. ⁓ We have the collecting on a balance when the patient is out of practice, ⁓ sending a payment request either
Kiera Dent (39:20)
Holy cow, it's amazing.
Mark Rasmussen (39:37)
allocated or unallocated payment request can attach a statement. ⁓ We also have the ability to host a payment page on their website. So if you want to put a little navigation, click here to make an online after hours payment, we'll host that page for the practice. ⁓ So yeah, we really kind of just looked at it a full circle of like, where are all the payment touch points that our practice is dealing with, and just trying to deliver these really amazing tools. And again, as you know, our model.
⁓ There's never any monthly fees. There's never any set up fees. There's never any annual fees ⁓ All there are these two simple flat rates and again, you can cancel it anytime you want never locked in anything
Kiera Dent (40:18)
That's awesome. Mark, I appreciate this so much. How do people, like know they just connect with you, schedule a demo. You guys will look at their credit card processing, see how you guys can fix it. How do they connect with you specifically if they're interested? And specifically The Dental A Team, The Dental A Team, perks.
Mark Rasmussen (40:33)
I would recommend and maybe we can list this in the podcast, but there will be a specific Moolah URL. It's like forward slash The Dental A Team They should go there and then they can schedule a demo. And then if they go there, then we're going to know it came from you guys. That way we can get them that 10 basis point savings forever. So just schedule a demo with us and no pressure. We're like the most like
the least salesy organization I think that you guys will ever run into. All we wanna do is inform you. We wanna show you what we have. We're not for everybody. ⁓ But assuming that you guys love what you see, we encourage you to try us out and check us out and see if we're gonna be a great fit for your practice.
Kiera Dent (41:13)
Yeah, for sure. You guys, honestly, I love Moolah They're incredible. So on our website, we will link it. So the way you get to Moolah, it's on our website, TheDentalATeam.com. And then you can click on the About Partnerships Mulas right there. ⁓ And the actual, like if you guys want our direct link here, it would be TheDentalATeam.com slash partnerships slash Moolah. And that should take you right to Moolah's page. It's also mula.cc slash partners.
So that helps you guys will also link that in the show notes mark. I appreciate you guys so much Things are being on the podcast things are going through the spicy with me. I appreciate you so much
Mark Rasmussen (41:52)
Any time, love you guys, you guys are the best and ⁓ have a great rest of day.
Kiera Dent (41:58)
Hey, you too, for all of you listening. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on The Dental A Team Podcast.
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Tiff and Kristy discuss how to best support patients during limited exams, including centering your own team’s frame of mind, creating proper triage protocol, building trust through communication, and more.
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Transcript
Tiffanie (00:00)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are back today with some really, really exciting things. We speak to the doctors, we speak to the team side, and we really want that to come together in today's podcast. We've got a lot of information for you doctors, but then we've also got a lot of information for you to pass off and train your team members on or pass off this podcast, and we will help train your team members on this space just here within this podcast even.
Jam-packed with a ton of information. It's for everyone. Team members, if you're here listening and your doctor's not a listener, vice versa, send it on over because I do think this is going to be some great information for everyone to start implementing right away. So you guys, I have Kristy here with me today. You know her, you love her. I know her, I love her. There's just no one on this earth that will meet her and not love her. So Kristy, you are just an amazing human being. are an excellent coach.
and consultant. You've been doing this for many years and I am just constantly impressed by you and how you really work so well with doctors and especially team members. I've seen you really diffuse a lot of situations, handle with care, and you constantly make people feel seen and feel heard. So thank you for being here with me today, Kristy. And really before we pop into this, I'm going to
I like to surprise you and Dana. Dana will tell you I do this a lot. So something pops into my head and I'm like, actually, that's gonna be really great. I think before we even get started on this, you guys, so that you know, we're gonna be really, we're gonna be talking about how to really, really maximize a limited or an emergency exam and how to enlist the team to support and getting the most out of it for yourself and for your patients. So before we get started, Kristy I would love for you to share with everyone here today and myself.
on a couple of ideas or maybe even tools, I don't know, but how do you do so well at presenting yourself for other people to be able to feel so comfortable and the ability to allow people to be able to feel vulnerable in your space to be able to learn and to be able to make changes and impart changes with practices? Like, how is that?
I know it's a natural tendency of yours, but if there's anything you can help doctors and team members really learn on how to show up so that they can do that too, I guess is what I'm asking.
Kristy (02:35)
I suppose you're right. I think it does come natural to me. I'm a pretty great listener yet. Also, I think it's very important to validate people where they're at and never make them feel small. You know, Tiff, I do not like being in the limelight, but I get a lot of thrill out of watching other people's growth or really watching them and seeing their brilliance within them and making that shine, bringing it out.
I suppose I look again, it's meeting them where they're at, showing them maybe something different than they even thought possible for themselves and just touching on their brilliance. It's okay if we don't know everything right now, but dang, together we're gonna grow and we're gonna do this. So really just partnering with them and making them feel safe in that space, know, treating them like I would have wanted to be treated too. So, yeah.
Tiffanie (03:30)
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And it sounds like
for implement implementation tools, it's really seeing people and acknowledging.
what it is that they're doing. if you've got a front office team member and you're like, gosh, like we've got 99 % of our patients confirmed for tomorrow, acknowledging that like, how did you do that? And really, like you said, partnering, I love that you use that word use it often, really partnering with that person and celebrating some of the things that they're doing really well. But also acknowledging there may be space for growth, we might have 99 % confirmations, but maybe we have
three, four, five hygiene openings on the same day. So acknowledging spaces that are going really well, but also that there is growth in everyone to be found and how do we layer on top of what we're doing really well already to create change in all of the areas to get the results we're after. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. So I love that theory and idea and I love how you do handle that. I think it's key and
Kristy (04:28)
You nailed it.
Tiffanie (04:36)
imparting any kind of change or any kind of just updates even, right? Like handbook updates, like all of those pieces that are scary to go back to your team and say, hey, we're going to change this, we're going to do it differently, because human nature says, no, keep doing it the same. Even if it's not working, this is comfortable. So I want to stay here with what I already know. So really being able to have that candor and be able to have those conversations and utilize communication really well to be able to impart the
the changes is going to be key. And then acknowledging once that change has happened, that it's working or not. So making sure we're tracking the results, but then also acknowledging the work that's being put in. think, Kristy, that's something you do really well is going back and saying, gosh, this is what we did. Look at how amazing these results are. This is what you guys put in. This is why it's working. And going back and re-acknowledging the steps that it's taking to do that.
Huge massive kudos to you, Kristy. I know you don't love the spotlight, but we're on a podcast, so your spotlight is always with me. I do think that really flows right into being able to maximize the limited exam.
Kristy (05:43)
Yeah.
Tiffanie (05:52)
There's so many spaces, there's so many spaces of growth, there's so much space of support for the team to give to the patient and to the doctor. And then also, I think everything you just said, Kristy, for team members, for doctors and team members to utilize, this works hand in hand with our patient base as well. With anyone, you guys take this home to your family and just be shocked at how amazing your kids' rooms will look if you utilize those communication tools and really acknowledge them for.
picking up that one stuffed animal when there's 15 more, like great, like let's get these other ones. So let's figure this out. Like really take these tools to any space of life, but it goes hand in hand with our patient communication as well. And the emergency slash limited exam space can be really tense for both of you. And it's a vulnerable space. Dentistry is a vulnerable space for patients anyways, but then knowing that gosh.
100 % something is wrong. Like, I'm stressed. I don't I'm stressed about cost. I'm stressed about what this is going to be. Is my tooth savable? Is it going to hurt? maybe it hurts now. There's so much emotion wrapped around these appointments that we've really got to handle them with care, love, candor, all of those spaces. Like Kristy like how is Kristy, put that in your head, what will Kristy do? How Kristy handle this this communication?
And how can your team support you in getting the best results and outcome for your patients? And Kristy, you and I were just chatting right before this and really talking about like the triage, incoming call, because we always say everything, right? Everything starts with the call. But how can that, in your opinion, Kristy, how can the front office team member taking that phone call, how can they support?
the back office dental assistant's hygienist doctor in that appointment. What's that first step look like for them to truly support this patient in getting the best care possible?
Kristy (07:47)
I love how you talked about the limited exam in the very beginning and opportunity. think number one, that's where we need to go. And also you mentioned about supporting them. They need us. And many times, I mean, you've been in the practice just like I have. You've been an assistant too when that limited exam has messed up your day and it just, you know.
Again, it maybe didn't make for a real positive day, but truly I think taking a step back and looking at it a little bit differently, really we all got into dentistry at the heart of it for some reason to care for other people. And yes, while it may mess up our day, those people truly are the ones that need us, probably the most, right? And so taking that step back and putting that frame of mind,
when that phone call comes in. And like you said, also triaging it, right? Sometimes it truly isn't the emergency that the patient thinks it is. So having a set protocol or questions that we can ask on the front, you know, I'll share with you. I love the, a scale of one to 10, how bad is it hurting today? And on that same scale of one to 10, you know, have you taken anything for it and where does it land when you take something on that same scale?
Because if they're at a nine for pain, but they take something and it subsides to a five, I may have a little bit of time to get them in and not necessarily mess up my schedule, right? But if it's a nine and nothing's helping, know, yeah, we got to find the best, worst, worst, best time, however you say that, to put them in. But really, it's an opportunity to make a difference for them and truly do what we-
Tiffanie (09:34)
I'm sorry.
Kristy (09:44)
What we love to do is care for people, right? And hopefully make a different outcome for them. So on the first call, we can make a difference. We can triage it to also help the best, but also take great care of the patient.
Tiffanie (09:58)
Absolutely. Yeah, I agree. And that triage you guys I would I would create I mean, I have them we can send them to you [email protected] just ask us for them. I would create an intake card, an intake form. And what I used to do actually, when I was in the in the front office at my dental practice, I had it on like a sticky note or a card, it was laminated and it was up by my computer so that I would ask those questions and what I would do and what I encourage team members to do.
is to throw it into the notes section of the appointment. So how long has it hurt? Like Kristy said, on a scale of one to 10, what would you rate your pain today? Are you taking anything for it over the counter or otherwise? Have you ever had this looked at before? Is this the first time that this has occurred? And really, and what is it? What area of the mouth? What is happening? What are your symptoms?
And then now we can, that's a triage to be able to say, okay, where does this appointment go? I do have to say there are so many practices, so many dentists that reach out and they're like, Tiff, Kristy, Kiera, Dana, Britt, like on my schedule is nuts. And I can think of a doctor in specific that one of our first calls, he's like, Tiff, I have like 10 limited appointments a day.
And my if you called me today to schedule my limited availability is two weeks out. And I was like, what? That's wild. Like there's I have so many questions right now. Like, why are patients not getting treatment done? Are these new patients? It's so many questions like that is wild to me. And that's the extreme but I definitely have doctors who are like, hey, I've got I've got limited emergency exams air quotes there if you're listening in the car that are coming in and it's like, well, I had a filling done a week ago and it's still high. Okay.
we didn't triage then to figure out what the actual quote unquote emergency is. That's an office visit y'all. Like that's a, you know what, great, let's get you in where we can to get that adjusted. But I'm saving this spot here for someone who's in pain because they have a toothache, right? And I get you, I hear you team members, a high filling is going to cause pain.
Yes, get them in. Don't make them wait a week. Don't make them wait two weeks. Get them in. But the patient who calls if their face is swollen or their tooth has fractured or they just got into an accident.
I had a kid that fell at baseball practice and knocked his tooth out or broken. These, guys, how are we getting these patients in? So being able to triage that and asking the right questions ahead of time is gonna help you to manipulate the schedule accurately and really, like Kristy said, get those patients in where they need to be seen. And I have oftentimes myself taken phone calls that a patient is like...
You don't understand, I gotta get in and I'm like, okay, great. Like, let's talk through this. Let's let's talk about what you've got going on. And I'm like, okay, like it's 355. And you're all you're gonna survive. Let's get you in at 8am. Let's get you in at 9am with the doctor, we're going to be ready for you. We're going to be able to do treatment, we're going be able to do something to get you out of pain tomorrow.
let's get you in in the morning, right? Because it's like, okay, on the scale of I know dental emergencies, the person calling me doesn't have that same scale. And so to them, what they are experiencing is massive. But when the grand scheme of things to ask a team to stay late, probably not, and you can survive until tomorrow morning, right? So you get to triage these things and make the best schedule for you all.
and then also prep the team, you guys. I mentioned at the beginning that I'm putting all of those things in the appointment notes because I then want my dental assistant to be able to say, my gosh, Kristy.
Kristy (13:37)
Thank
Tiffanie (13:49)
Come on back, like let's get you taken care of. And then on the walk even, used to, as a dental assistant, I'd be like, Kristy, gosh, how are you feeling it? From the notes here, it looks like that upper right tooth is really bothering you. How are you doing? And I'm sitting Kristy down and I'm putting her bib on and I'm like, tell me more about it. It looks like you're taking ibuprofen and it's kind of reducing it. Have you tried anything else? Like now we're in conversation and Kristy, how does it feel on the other side to be like, my gosh, great.
They already, they took the information yesterday and now we're actually, we're in conversation about it. And Kristy, from your point of view, how does that conversation utilizing the information, which caveat you guys, if your front office team is putting the information in there and you're not using it, they're gonna stop putting it in there. And then you're gonna be upset that it's not in there. So make sure you're using it. But Kristy, from the patient standpoint and from your point of view, your perspective, how do you feel that conversation?
lands for the patient in respect to going back to what we talked about earlier with the communication. How does that help that open that space in those lines?
Kristy (14:54)
Yeah, I love that you bring that up because it is a true opportunity to make a huge difference and it really does elevate the patient's level of trust and we have to remember that those patients coming in on emergency are probably even a little higher level of anxiety than just the normal dental patient, right? Almost every person coming to the dental office, even if they don't mind it, have some level of anxiety.
And your limited exams or your limited emergency patients definitely probably are ratcheted up another level. being heard is huge in, you know, diminishing that anxiety and, or at least lessening it, right? And then just elevating that level of trust so that when you guys do diagnose something, figure out what's going on.
they're more likely to say yes to the treatment because you validated them, you heard them. How many times do we call the doctor's office, because we have to get in for a sore throat, and you go through every person and you think, why did I just tell the last five people? Because nobody listened to me. Everybody walked in and said the same thing. So I agree with you, Tiff, that is so huge. And I'm gonna even like maybe plant another seed of opportunity that if ever,
We talk about handoffs all the time with our clients, right? If ever you can have a new patient limited come in and the admin team walks them back and hands it off and gives them that information, wow, knock it out of the park. They're already like, whoa, this is very different than I've ever experienced. And they listened from the first phone call, right?
Tiffanie (16:41)
Yeah, yeah, I love that that elevated experience is what we're always after. And it's that concierge style. I know. I just got back from vacation. So it's super fresh for me and everybody. My boyfriend works for a company that is an incredible company and they have these trips that you can earn. And he he earns them. He's an incredible worker. And these trips are just incredible. And there I was sitting with someone and he said, gosh, it's so cool.
companies don't do this. Companies don't do things like this. Like he's like, my company got me the Calm app for a year. And I was like, well, bro, I love the Calm app and that $80. Like I hear, I hear why that would be great. But side note to that, you're right. Companies don't do this as like a bonus structure as an incentive, right. But what actually sticks out to me is not just the trip, right, because we can get myself
Kristy (17:15)
Just what?
Tiffanie (17:32)
to London somehow, some way I can get myself to London. What I can't and won't do is go the extra mile to have a tour agency right there scheduling everything. At my beck and call, I had someone that would tell me what the schedule was. The concierge members would schedule dinners for us. The show that I wanted to see, I could tell them to schedule it. That's the level.
of difference for me, because we can get ourselves anywhere, but going on a vacation like that, that the company set up so many spaces that you don't have to think about anything, is what makes these trips exciting to me, right? Yes, I acknowledge they're really cool, but what's cool about them is the level of service that we get at every step of the way.
Dental offices are on every corner, sometimes two or three in the same parking lot, you guys. Your concierge, your level of service that you're providing to the patients is what makes it stick. That's what you're here for and that's what's gonna make you feel the best. So I totally agree. What can we do for these patients to level it up that much more? And really to maximize those appointments, I know from...
me saying it from Kristy saying like do these things it sounds like more but it actually decreases the amount of time spent because you've you've quickly and easily created a relationship with a human and they're ready to then move forward to the next step they trust you the relationship is there they're hearing you because they felt heard and they're ready to push forward so even that concierge style on that first phone call and maybe even saying like gosh you know what
We've got this space to look at. I have an idea. What if we bring you in and we look at everything with a high focus on this area because my gut says if this is happening there, this isn't the only spot that's going to be troublesome. And I would rather give us the opportunity to catch it ahead and be proactive than wait for another call like this where you're in pain. So let's get you scheduled and let's get you scheduled for
a full exam and x-rays with a high focus on this area. I've just converted a limited exam into a comp exam. That's maximizing an emergency appointment. If I didn't convert it over the phone, dental assistant, hygienist, whoever's getting this limited exam, we're doing the same thing. Hey, I have an idea. Let's maximize your time here.
Let's be proactive and let's make sure there's nothing else in there that's going to pop up like this because I don't think you want to be in pain like this again, I venture to say. Let's make sure that everything else is taken care of as well with a high focus on this today. So making sure we're maximizing your time, the patient's time and your time and creating more value out of a very seemingly simple appointment. But it takes knowing what the patient is coming in for.
passing that information off, passing that information off to the doctor correctly, and making sure that everything that we're getting from the patient, all that information is being used. That's how you make those appointments maximized and how you efficiently and effectively use your time wisely. You guys know, if you've listened to anything at all, Kara always says, efficiency is my jam. It will be on my headstone, on my grave. That is locked in stone.
Kristy (21:00)
you
Tiffanie (21:04)
Listen to me when I save. This is how I personally have saved time and built stronger relationships very quickly with my patients in office and watched and trained practices to do it forever. So build that protocol and you guys, doctors, that protocol of information, the triage that we're gathering, it's based on the information that you want.
when you're gonna sit down and talk to that patient. What are the questions you are going to ask that patient that they can gather, your support team can gather the information ahead of time and give it to you, saving you that time and you can jump into relationship and diagnosis. What are those things that you want to know? Allow them to build that intake form, that triage form.
team members, support the doctor in utilizing that form, and support the whole team in scheduling properly based off that triage, and that's gonna be huge for you. And if you schedule optimally, you know what you're scheduling for, you guys, can probably even pop in some same day treatment very frequently, very often because you're already prepped. As a dental assistant, Kristy, there were so many times where I'd see an emergency, and I'm like, or I'd see an emergency of a patient that had been in and had a...
filling or a crown or whatever diagnosed on that tooth already. So I already had a pack ready to go so that when Doc confirmed what that treatment was, even a new patient saying this is my pain, like as a dental assistant, I'm like, okay, these are probably the two, three things that he's potentially diagnosing. Let me have these things prepped and ready for quick grab in case we can move forward with treatment today. And then I'm talking to my patient about that. Like, gosh, you know what?
Typically when I see this, I already know, I know what the options are, right? Typically when we see this, I usually see doctors say things like this.
I'm preheating and prepping that patient for what the doctor may come in and say. Again, doctors building that relationship. That's that co-diagnosis space. And dental assistants, do not do yourselves the disservice of thinking that you can't do that. It is not just for hygiene. Hygienists cannot diagnose. You cannot diagnose. But both of your positions can co-diagnose and support the patient and the doctor in moving forward with treatment.
So triage, make sure you've got something really easy for them to utilize. Implement it, get your hand off straight, you guys. Probably practice them, I love role playing those. And work to maximize your time by utilizing these systems, but also by saying, hey, let's get your whole mouth taken a look at today. We don't have to do everything, I don't even have to show you everything. I just need to know what's going on there and get a treatment plan so that we can move forward. I digress.
And I think, Kristy, I really feel like all of those spaces go straight back to the first conversation we had today of really opening up that communication and making those changes for the team, but also for the patients. And one thing I want to highlight before we finish, something I loved doing as a dental assistant for my, especially for my emergency patients, but any patients, something I loved doing, you guys, was really saying like, gosh, I know that this is rough for you, or know you've got, you know, this is
this might be overwhelming for you. But I want to highlight some things that are going really well. Two, one, you're here. You walked through my front doors. And my patients with the highest anxiety would cry when I would say that. I would say you're here, you're here with me. I'm not going to let you down. And I'm going to be here for the long haul. So number one, you're here. Number two, you're ready to take a proactive step. And again, I'm here for you. So just
Again, that relationship, being in relationship and Kristy, that goes back to like acknowledging. That's hard for a lot of patients walking through that door. It's hard. And when they're scared, gosh, I've had patients that they're like, no, I haven't been to the dentist since I was 12 and they're 42. I'm like, well, congratulations, here we are. And you've still got a lot of teeth in your mouth after 30 years. Like that's huge. So let's take a look. But Kristy.
I think we've given them a ton of information on how to maximize a limited exam appointment. What do you feel like if they could take one step today? Doctor might be listening to this, maybe it's Saturday or Tuesday night. What's one thing that our doctors listening today can do to get this process started for their practice?
Kristy (25:37)
Yeah, again, going back to what you said, really dialing into those questions and also, know, doctors remembering back when they very first started, they welcomed a lot of a limited exams, right? Like we wanted them. We used to cheer when we'd have them because we knew it was putting something in the chair and more than likely they had other things going on. So challenging them to kind of reframe it and look at it in that direction.
The other thing with doctors too, for limited, maybe when they come to morning huddle, they scan the schedule and see if I had to have an emergency today, where's the best time to put it? Because that's the other thing too, Tiff, when people call in and front office doesn't know where to put it and then they put them on hold forever because they gotta find somebody, identify those times, go through your questions that you would ask. And honestly, I also say doctors,
I know this is hard for you because you walk in the room and you kind of take charge, but be the guest in the room. Acknowledge the patient is sitting there. It'd be weird if you didn't, but then quickly turn to your assistant and let them hand off to you. Give them that space to do that. And like you said, it truly will save time because patient doesn't have to repeat themselves. And for the team members, you don't have to be afraid of leaving anything out. All you have to say is, hey,
May I share with Dr. Smith everything that we talked about, right? And then turn to the patient. Was there anything that I forgot or anything you want to add? Then you don't ever have to be afraid. You can feel confident. And if they speak more, so be it. You know what I mean? But those would be my tips there.
Tiffanie (27:23)
Yeah, I love it. And I think we wrap on that. So go do those things. Go create the best process possible for your patients and for your team. If it's working for your team, it works for your patients and your flow is great. And guess what? We hit goals and patients are happy and satisfied and teams happy. So go do all the things you guys. Thank you so much for listening. Kristy, thank you so much for being here and letting me surprise you and put you in the spotlight for so many things. So thank you for that. And you guys.
As always, drop us a five star review, let us know if this was great information, how much you loved it, and allow others to find it as well. Share with your friends, your coworkers, your doctors, if your team member's here, and doctors with your team members if you're a doctor here. So share with everyone, we wanna make sure that these protocols really get put into place, and if you need help with any of it, [email protected]. We are always here to help, and just so you know, when those do come in, I said it before, they do come to us consultants, so you are getting actual information, reliable.
And we are here to help. So thank you everyone and go have a great rest of your day.
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Fred Heppner of Arizona Transitions is back for part 2 of his chat with Kiera! Life comes at you fast, and sometimes, it comes in the form of a surprise. Kiera and Fred talk about creating an exit strategy today for your departure from dentistry, as well as what the economics look like for moving on from a practice.
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Transcript
Kiera Dent (00:01)
Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am so excited for you to have part two of me and Fred Heppner going through associates, DSOs, how to really grow this. You guys, we had such an incredible first half of this episode. It was so long and so much information that I wanted to break it into two parts. So here's part two. I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.
Kiera Dent (00:24)
should people be talking
when they're in their 20s 30s or is it something we're like start to think about it I know Ryan and I from Dentist advisors we we talk shop about this quite often of like there I mean there are studies that show that when you retire you actually start to atrophy in life and ⁓ there isn't as much of a purpose and so we talk often of like how can we continue that
mental stamina, the things that are going to fulfill us, whether it's working or something else of philanthropy, like whatever is going to keep you going as a human, whether you're working in the chair or you're not, I think is important. So that's I was curious of like, really probably connecting with you three to five years before we think we might retire, but with the caveat of, hey, if something were to happen to me, what would kind of be my exit strategy? your like death list like I do, like if I die, this is what's going to happen. It's creepy, but it's awesome.
Fred Heppner (01:15)
No, it's, it's creepy and it is awesome. And at the same time, it's a really good conversation to have because if we're three to five years out, then one of the first things to do is say, okay, so what's going to happen if you're not here? And that carries on to the discussion we had earlier. So once the discussion about, what do want to do when you, when you retire or you stop practicing dentistry, then the questions start coming up. What about the economics?
Kiera Dent (01:27)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (01:44)
So in any... Yep, absolutely.
Kiera Dent (01:44)
I was just going to say, like, is it sell? Is it DSO? it? And also, I mean, this
to me also, I think might exponentially accelerate some people's plans because the DSOs are hot and it's like 10x EBITDA. That might accelerate your retirement or your sell because you're on a wave right now that who knows if in the next 20, 30, 40 years we'll be there. Fred, I'm super curious, like, how is this whole DSO model maybe shifting it for transitions? Or is it? I'm curious.
Fred Heppner (02:13)
It is, it's shifted quite a bit, but what it's shifted is a real desire for dentists to be able to sell their businesses and release the management responsibility and to have somebody else take that over. 15, 20. Yeah. I just want to do, I just want to do dentistry. I don't want to manage a business. I don't want to manage people. Um, I don't want to run the company. I want to be able to practice my trade. Well,
Kiera Dent (02:22)
you
The dream for every business owner. ⁓
Exactly.
Fred Heppner (02:43)
I can tell you that in the last 15, 20 years, it's certainly exploded in dentistry and not in a bad way. And here's why. Dentists graduating from dental school today need a place to work. The banks that loan money to dentists to buy dental practices are looking for dentists that have a couple years experience in dentistry. They have a production track record. The banks can see what it is that the dentist can do. Chair aside.
a good credit score and some liquidity, usually 8 to 10 % of the purchase price of the business that they're looking at in cash. So one of the things to consider is graduating dentists should be able to make the minimum payments on their debt, on their student loans, on what debt they have, and begin to put money away as quickly as possible to gain some liquidity. So as we look at the equation of
what DSOs are doing, they're providing them with a place to work. Because as dentists come out, I mean, the majority of dental practices that I work with, maybe you can echo this or discuss it, are just single dentist practices. Right, they don't have a, somebody called it a plus one at some point time, and I thought, okay, that's decent. So you have the dentistry, but there's the ability to bring somebody on maybe one or two days a week. Well, that doesn't,
Kiera Dent (03:44)
Mm-hmm.
Totally same.
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (04:09)
That doesn't feed a hungry young dentist coming out of dental school who really has a lot of debt and wants to begin to work and develop a way to reduce that debt. They're looking for four days a week, five. They might have a quality of life thing where they just want to work three tens and be off Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. That's okay. But the point is, is that most private practices don't have the capacity to be able to bring on a full-time dentist and feed them right away and keep them very busy. The DSOs, corporate dentistry,
Kiera Dent (04:19)
Right.
Fred Heppner (04:39)
have offices that can provide that place. So essentially, if a dentist comes out of school and begins to work, they may very well work for one of the corporate DSOs, which gives them experience. It gives them the ability to work five days a week. It gives them the ability to practice in what I call civilian dentistry out of dental school. And it gives them the opportunity to be able to see what it's really like. I can tell you, Kiera, that 15, I think 15 years ago,
Kiera Dent (04:57)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (05:08)
the most popular phone call I would get on my phone line was, hey, we just got 50 million from a private equity firm. We're starting a DSO, but we're different. And we want to buy practices from you because we heard you're good. And I just tell them, great, thanks very much. Get in line, register on my website. And when an opportunity comes up, I will email to you like I do everybody else the opportunity. Because most of my clients call and say, I...
Kiera Dent (05:17)
you
Fred Heppner (05:34)
Hard no to a DSO. I'm a private practitioner. I've got a legacy practice and I want to sell to another private dentist Okay, so that was the most popular second most popular call was I'm sick of working for a company find me a practice to buy Now it's shifted More so do I hear I'm sick of working for somebody else find me a private practice to buy I'm ready to go The the DSO calls have filtered off of it and I don't know that that's a global
Kiera Dent (05:48)
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (06:03)
representation of the DSOs starting to slow their buying and really focus on the profitability of the offices they have to really maintain the profitability due to higher interest rates. Maybe they're slowing down their buying. Who knows? The interesting thing about it is that it's somewhat of a closed loop in DSO work. You really can't get into and find out exactly what everybody is doing unless you're member of their organizations, which is fine. And I respect that.
Kiera Dent (06:12)
Yeah.
Fred Heppner (06:32)
private information, but it begs the question. And ultimately, if a dentist is looking to buy their own practice, eventually they're going to need those one to two years experience, liquidity, good credit score, in order for them to go to one of the commercial banks and say, I want to buy a practice and let me get a practice to buy and then we'll put it together. Okay? So I can tell you that private practice is alive and well.
Kiera Dent (06:55)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (07:02)
very bullish on the individual dentist who's out there still practicing and doing quite well. I can also tell you that those kinds of doctor to doctor transitions are extremely successful. The idea is some people who look at a transition like that would think, my gosh, the dentist leaves, all the patients will leave. They'll go somewhere else, they'll go to other practices. Well, if that was true, let's carry that forward. If that was true,
Kiera Dent (07:14)
Mm-hmm.
No.
Fred Heppner (07:28)
then that would mean that the loans that the dentist used to buy the practice would go in default, would they not? Because if all the patients left, there would be no revenue and they'd have to fold up camp and see you later, right? The default rate on dental practice loans still over the last 15, 20 years and even recently is 40 basis points. 100 basis points is 1%. 40 basis points is four tenths of 1%. So if you follow the math,
Kiera Dent (07:33)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (07:58)
The default rate is less than half of 1 % on the billions of dollars that are loaned by banks for dentists to buy practices. They don't fail. Okay.
Kiera Dent (08:08)
Totally. They don't and they're such a
good investment. I think that that's why so many people like, that's why I think DSOs are buying up practices. ⁓ And I think that that's where so many private practice owners now, I would say I've watched where it used to be legacy practices and there's still legacy practice doctors who do not want to sell to a DSO. Like when they're there, they want to sell doctor to doctor, they want to bring in an associate, they want to bring in partners. I think
By default, dentistry tends to be a more humanistic, ⁓ very relationship model ⁓ versus I still think though, right now DSOs, you're right. I don't think people are getting as many calls. ⁓ But what I will say is my doctors are probably getting 20 to 30 emails every month from a DSO interested in buying their practice. So they are getting it as private practice owners. And so I think that that's where, ⁓ like I said, some people within the last eight years bought a practice as a private practice.
the DSOs, they were profitable. were within the metrics that the DSO wanted. And it just made sense. was like, I'm going to get 10x EBITDA on this. My EBITDA is great. No private party is going to pay me what this DSO is going to pay me. And while yes, I'd love it to maintain a legacy practice, I'm in my 30s and I could basically have retirement today. mean, there's more risk selling out because they have a lot of it in their stocks and there's a whole ⁓ game around that.
I think that that's where maybe some of the younger generation might be looking at transitions sooner than I think the more senior population of dentistry is. think that they're starting to be the shift and that's where I'm very curious of like, maybe conversations need to be had sooner. Maybe because DSOs are aggressive on the emails to the dentist. Like it is wild and they are sexy offers to them that are not always true. And that creeps me out too, because they're hearing a number. Like I had a doctor and he had a DSO.
Fred Heppner (09:49)
Yep. Yep.
Kiera Dent (10:04)
come to him and they said, Hey, we're going to give you 5 million. And he's like, here, it seems like a great deal. And I said, yeah, but you're going to do 5 million next year just in your own production. So that's actually a bad deal because you're already going to make that without selling to them and having to work for them for the next five to 10 years or like three to five is usually what their requirement is. So again, I think that this is where it's like, how do we cut through that noise to know when I do transition? Because I think people are getting asked to transition from private practice.
sooner. You're right, they go work at the DSO, they go to some of those bigger corporate practices to get the experience, then they go buy their private practice, and then it really is, or they do a startup. And then it's pretty aggressive because I think Wall Street's pretty hot right now and private equity is very, very luring, but they do have to hit certain requirements to join DSOs.
Fred Heppner (10:53)
Yeah. There are tons of verticals that people are getting into, the private equity is getting into, you're right. There's a ton of money at it. You know, I would tell you that the devil is in the details. It may very well be that there are transitions that occur where a DSO or a corporation acquires the assets of a private practice and the dentist stays and works back in the office. And that transition works swimmingly well for the dentist who sells for the DSO.
Kiera Dent (11:02)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (11:21)
And ultimately everything works out fine. There are others that don't and they're, they're out there. And I think what you mentioned earlier is, you know, I could get 5 million from my practice. Well, why would you, you will be able to make that in, your earnings in 2.3 years, whatever it might be, whatever the math pencils that be. But if you think about it, if it, if 10 times EBITDA is their offering price, what are, what are the details? How much cash at closing?
Kiera Dent (11:38)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (11:49)
Is there a work back or a work back arrangement where you will be paid to be the dentist? And what is your compensation? What are the benefits that you would receive? And what is the term of that work back arrangement? You're right. It's creeping up now more into five years. 15, 20 years ago, was maybe, you know, stay on one or two years and we're good. There's a claw back. There's a hold back provision that holds back part of the purchase price. And the dentist has to meet the
Kiera Dent (12:04)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Fred Heppner (12:17)
has to meet certain metrics from the trailing 12 months to be able to get that back. Well, let's pretend. Let's pretend that the DSO comes in and sets up the practice and nothing changes and the business continues to grow and develop because there's more marketing promotion and advertising. There's better cost control. There's just better stuff going on and that works. Well, what if it doesn't? What if all of a sudden the company comes in and says, we're changing these policies?
You were Delta Dental Premier, we're jumping into PPOs because we've got really good reimbursement rates on these 12 PPO contracts. Well, if that reimbursement rate drops from fee for service, does that hinder the doctor to be able to generate the income necessary for that hold back to be acquired in the next two to three years? And then there's equity. You mentioned that they offer a stock in the company to be able to ultimately participate in a
Kiera Dent (13:09)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (13:15)
recapitalization should that happen? Well, it'd be really interesting. You're going to love this one. I know you're going to love this one. So for any of your listeners, any of your A-Team clients, if they get approached by a DSO and they look at it and they think it's really, really good, have somebody look at it. What you will hear typically is you really don't need an advisor. You don't need an attorney. We've got all the contracts ready to go. You can come.
Kiera Dent (13:35)
Mm-hmm.
Lies. Lies.
Fred Heppner (13:44)
Exactly. You can just take all of this and we'll be good. Well, trust but verify. And ultimately a good team would be able to review these. I would be glad to review. I review paperwork all the time from dentists that are looking to transition. And if there's an equity piece in that offer, I turn around and contact the DSO on behalf of the client. And I say, we'd like to see your financials.
Kiera Dent (14:08)
Absolutely.
Fred Heppner (14:11)
What do you mean? Well, you're asking my client to acquire stock in your company in lieu of cash at closing. yeah, that's part of the deal. I need to see your financials. I need to advise my client on whether or not you have a healthy company and whether or not my client's going to be at risk by taking stock in your company. Well, nobody's ever asked us that. Well, I am. And doesn't it make sense? We've just provided to you tax returns, profit and loss statements, but sing along if you know the words, balance sheets, W-2, production reports, everything on the business.
Kiera Dent (14:21)
Yeah.
things.
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (14:39)
And yet you're not willing to provide the other. Just provide the other. Show us that your business is solvent. Show it that it is something that my client would like to receive in stock. So, mon bro.
Kiera Dent (14:50)
And there's strategy
for tax around that too. there are benefits to having stock rather than all the cash at closing for your total dollar amount when you want to retire, but only if that stock actually is valuable.
Fred Heppner (15:05)
Pays back. Correct. Good. And that
is so brilliant. You see, you're good looking, you're smart, and that's a rare combination today. So, so, but think about it. You just mentioned something that people really don't think. If, if I have a practice and they give me 1.5 million chopped up into the ways that we've mentioned, and I have $200,000 worth of equity in the company, what if that $200,000 is half of 1 %? Well, when they recapitalize, I get half of 1 % of what proceeds, right?
Kiera Dent (15:09)
Thank you.
Mm-hmm.
I love it. It's such a...
Fred Heppner (15:35)
So map it out. Yeah, map it out. mean, can
you sell your practice twice? sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Kiera Dent (15:43)
And there's so many sticky pieces around it. And that's where I feel like it's just a, think this is where people get leery to do it. However, I think like there are some, you said, that go really, really well, but agreed. And when I look at this people like Kiera, like I thought about that doctor and I was like, so sweet. You're going to five mil. That's your 10 X. You're going to produce 5 million. Your overhead right now is sitting at a 50 % overhead. So right now you're taking 2.5. Let's say you do get a $5 million check.
you give me 10 taxes, it's barely over your 2.5, which you're already going to get next year. So like, yes, next year, you still have to pay taxes because you're at a 50 % overhead. So you will still get a small amount more of cash to you. But there's a lot of strategy that goes into that 2.5, pending upon what you need when you invest that, like for every million, it's about like on average, if it's in the stock market, about 35,000 right now is like a very, very, very loose number to like estimate your financial future. But I'm like,
you throw 2.5 into the stock market right now, we'll high five, you're making about 100K a year. Like that's just to me, those are the things that I feel you need to be really smart about to make sure that your practices are assets and not liabilities and something that really will provide the retirement for the work you've put in rather than it just feeling good in the moment, but not really giving the life you want.
Fred Heppner (16:59)
You know, excellent point. And what you also said earlier, just in passing was, what dentists could buy my practice. can't sell to a private dentist. I've got to sell to a DSO. ⁓ surprise, surprise. That's a myth. There are dentists who would, I can tell you right now, if you could give me your client's number, I'll buy her practice. Well, yeah, well, I mean, that's gonna, that's gonna pencil. So the, the point that I would make is know that
Kiera Dent (17:12)
It is a myth.
Right? I know, me too. I'm like, actually, actually I would.
Fred Heppner (17:29)
Dentists that are out there who are looking to buy really profitable practices and can meet the production goals. So there's an important aspect there. Your client's doing two and a half million in profit, five million in productivity on her own. If a person coming in to buy that won't be able to quite meet those production numbers, they may hire the client back for a year or two. The bank may want them to make sure that there's some kind of arrangement where they have some help.
But if a bank is looking at a practice that has that kind of liquidity and profitability, they'll gladly loan the money to the dentist if other measures are there because they know it's going to be paid back. So I want to dispel the myth that big practices with large productivity and big profitability are excluded from private practitioners being able to buy them. It's not true. Is it? Yeah.
Kiera Dent (18:10)
Mm-hmm.
I agree. They get nervous because of the debt,
but I have somebody that I know that just bought into a $2.5 million is how much they had to bring to the table. Plus they have their student loan debt, plus they have their house debt and they were able to do it to buy into a practice. so I'm like, I think let's not assume that that's the only route. think figure out what you want and there is a buyer based on the outcome you want. I think Fred, I want to switch gears because I want to ask some questions about associates.
because I think we've kind of gone through like private practice. There's so many things like make sure you're taken care of, make sure you know where you're going. But now I want to switch gears because I think this is something I get asked all the time. And so selfishly again, welcome to curious therapy with Fred. I want to know all the pieces. This is my podcast that you get to be a part of. No, it's for all of you. ⁓ we get asked often, how do you set up a great associate buy-in? So like, how do I buy these people and how do I tether them in? I think one of the greatest, I would say
Fred Heppner (19:06)
I'm listening.
Kiera Dent (19:19)
stressors and like blind spots in practices and the thing that can really hurt a practice is when they have an associate that associate leaving. ⁓ And so they want to like golden handcuff these associates, but they want it to be good for both parties. What are some of those associate transitions to retain associates to get them in as partners? Is it a good idea? Is it not a good idea? And I think like we can wrap on this because I, I'm super curious of like what you recommend to help with that transition.
Fred Heppner (19:45)
The
capacity for the business volume has to be there. You've got to have, not only are you working, but there's this phantom practice out there that you can't get to as the provider. And you need somebody to be able to get to that. So bringing on an associate to get to that phantom practice immediately creates incremental income, which is, to the owner of the business, very liquid.
Kiera Dent (20:03)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (20:07)
The cost associated with treating extra people during the course of the day is the associate's compensation and variable cost supplies in lab. And if you're ⁓ providing can-to-can technology and your lab costs are very low, but you're producing crowns in a day, for example, and using that kind of technology, then the cost associated with treating every incremental patient and creating that revenue is very low.
we're suggesting that the team in place can handle the extra work. We don't have to hire an extra assistant or hire an extra administrative person. So given those things.
⁓ One of the best transition plans, in my opinion, is one that has time built into it. The associate has to develop some traction. They have to generate some productivity. They have to show that they can produce the numbers. But more importantly, the outcomes are good. The treatment outcomes are successful. The patients are adapting to them. The team connects with them. This is a good relationship. As an aside, really quick, when you mention relationship business in dentistry,
I think DSOs traditionally are a transactional business. They're really focusing on the transaction, right? Private practice focuses on the relationship. Not to say that corporate dentistry doesn't focus on relationships. They're focused more so on the transactions. I might get ridiculed for that statement, but that's what I see. And that's my opinion.
Kiera Dent (21:19)
I would agree.
Sure,
sure.
Fred Heppner (21:36)
So back to the associate, need the associate to develop some traction. And essentially that traction comes from being in the office, seeing patients, working with the team, and ultimately getting feedback along the way. And I think that's a one to two year cycle. Will you know as a practitioner and owner of the business within the first one or two months, if the associate is working two or three days a week or four days a week, will you know, do they get along with the patients? Do they get along with the team? Yes. Will you know about treatment outcomes?
Kiera Dent (21:40)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (22:05)
To some degree, yes. So early on, you'll know if this is cut bait, this is not going to work. Or yes, this person's fitting in great, primarily because they were vetted. So quick, quick retract back to how do you hire them? Go through a long process of vetting. Don't just take the first one that appears. Get to know them, make sure they're going to integrate well. I see a lot of associate plans.
work real well when the dentist knows the dentist owner knows the associate coming on board from some past experience. Great example is the dentist associate grew up in town, did an internship kind of in the office as a sterilization tech, kind of worked in the office, found out that dentistry was their passion, went to college for undergrad, went to dental school for dental degree and came back to the town to work for that dentist. Right. Okay, good. So somebody you know, ⁓
Kiera Dent (22:38)
Mm-hmm.
Totally.
Fred Heppner (23:00)
son of doctor, owner's best friend. So there's history there. You know, the quality of the individual. Okay. So once traction is developed during the part of that associate agreement, there's some discussion about ownership and building an understanding of how the practice works so that when time comes to be a partner and buy in, there's already some traction. There's already some traction so that if the person elects to buy the seller out,
in a couple years, then they can switch roles. But there has to be some traction. One of the things that's really perilous is thinking about jumping into a practice and being a partner right away. If you want to practice and you do two million a year, hygiene does 500, you do 1.5. I'm going to come in and I want to be a partner of yours today because I've heard how great your practice is. And you have the physical plant capacity, you have the patient capacity, and I can step right in.
If I pay you half of the value of your practice today to buy in, we can split up the medicine and supplies and drugs. can split up the equipment. We can split up the office equipment. ⁓ we can split up all the operatories, but how do we sort out the patients? Because come Monday morning, say we close tomorrow, Friday, come Monday morning, I need to have in my schedule, the ability to generate half of the revenue in the business so that I can pay myself and I can pay.
to having bought in. that make sense? And that doesn't really happen easily when somebody just freshly wants to buy in as a partner. So fast forwarding to partnerships, which I hope we get a chance to talk a little bit about today, that associate has to be in that process, in that business for a period of time. And that traction needs to get up so that they've got productivity under their belt. And again, going back to what we talked about about banks,
Kiera Dent (24:32)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
I agree.
Fred Heppner (24:59)
they wanna see that that productivity is there, that they'll be able to generate it because they wanna make sure that they get the loan paid for. And a really good associate agreement has, in my opinion, good restrictive covenants, not to compete, not to solicit patients or staff. ⁓ In some states, that's not allowed. The FTC voted that associate agreements or employment agreements should not have restrictive covenants, but there's no legislation yet that has actually mandated that.
Kiera Dent (25:05)
Totally.
Fred Heppner (25:26)
So keep in mind that it's probably not appropriate to think that you'll be able to limit somebody's ability to work. Now for them to essentially buy your practice, for example, and you as a, agreement have a restrictive covenant that you will agree to that's different because somebody paid you good and valuable consideration money for you not to compete against them because they bought your business in an employment agreement. It's a little different.
Kiera Dent (25:49)
Mm-hmm.
Great.
Fred Heppner (25:56)
So if a dentist comes and works for another dentist who owns the business, and after a couple of months, it's just not gonna work out, they're not gonna have enough connection with the patient base to solicit patients or solicit staff or the team. They won't. So would it matter if there was a restrictive covenant in that initial agreement? Probably not.
because after a couple months, if they've alienated patients and alienated staff and they're not very good at dentistry, you want them out of there anyway, forget about the restrictive covenant, they could go work for somebody else close by. It's probably the same thing that'll happen.
Kiera Dent (26:36)
I think it's really wise because I think so many offices hire an associate, but they're so scared to move them along in two months. I think that was wise advice you listed. It is so much easier to move them on in two months than it is to keep them for six months, eight months, 10 months, and then realize their dentistry or their team connection or their patient connections not there. so ⁓ it's, it's be very intentional within those first 90 days and make sure that this will be a long-term fit. ⁓ You can see it in two months.
Fred Heppner (27:01)
So how does this,
you can, I'm sure you can. How does this sound? For the first six months of an associate agreement, maybe you don't have quite a good background, deep background about that individual, but you feel that they would be good in the practice. They come recommended by their instructors at university, at dental school. was highly, someone was highly recommended. How about a single page,
six month agreement that says you come to work for me, I will pay you this. And if you want to go, you can go. If I feel you need to go, I'm going to release you. It's an at will agreement, no restrictive covenants, nothing in it that locks anybody down. Because again, what I mentioned earlier is how much traction can you generate really in one or two, three, four months, because you'll know after four or five months that this is somebody really want to lock in at six months, develop a really strong, well-written attorney reviewed.
employment agreement that has restrictive covenants that has specific on how to redo cases in case they need to be done at the end of the employment agreement. Right. What do you think? I mean, does that give that give the opportunity?
Kiera Dent (28:08)
Sure.
I think,
I mean, I like it. think that the devil's advocate in me would say, I'm not sure that the ⁓
millennial Gen Z generation coming through would say yes to six months. I think that they're looking for more security. They're looking for more guarantees. They come in with a lot more debt and a lot more risk that I am really curious. As a business, I think it's freaking brilliant. As on the other side, I'm curious, would you be able to get candidates that would want to come or is it too risky of an offer?
Fred Heppner (28:43)
You mean,
yeah, do you mean the associate dentist coming on board is thinking more about themselves rather than the practice?
Kiera Dent (28:52)
I think with the associate offers that are given currently, ⁓ I think agreed. It does show that they're thinking about it, but I also feel for a practice making sure that they're competitive with offers. I don't love having to be ⁓ like with hygienists. I don't want to have to go chase them, but you have to at least be competitive with other people in the market. So I think I agree with you. I just feel for practices making sure that maybe
Fred Heppner (29:05)
⁓
I understand what you're saying.
Kiera Dent (29:19)
you are so competitive with other people and offer. So you do get the candidates, but you can have some of these ideas within like that I think would make you even maybe more attractive. So maybe it's a year that we're offering, but like, Hey, in the first six months, there's no restriction. There's no nothing. We add that in in six months. So that way you are competitive with other people. Cause I think associates, they need that security and I'm watching more and more come through. I mean, they're walking out with one mil plus 2 million in debt. Like, so I think that
I think to be competitive with others, might need to be a possibly. This is my hallucination that could possibly just make sure you're competitive.
Fred Heppner (29:53)
Well, well, no, you're
so you're right on you're in a you're in another section of what the employment agreement might look like called compensation and benefits. I'm looking at just the period of time that you would be that a dentist would be employed in the practice to determine if it's a right fit for them and if it's a right fit for the practice and if it's a right fit for the patients and the team. Compensation can say exactly what you were saying. Now,
Kiera Dent (30:16)
Right.
Fred Heppner (30:22)
Unfortunately, it isn't the responsibility of the practice to provide for somebody who is unproven in their debt or to satisfy their lifestyle requirements. Yes, they're competing with other organizations that are offering salary, health insurance, vision, life insurance policies, all of those benefits that come along with big corporations. However,
It's a private practice. And the sooner I think that dentists who are coming on as associates know the intricacies and the difficulties of running a business and also the rewards that come with it, they would understand better how those arrangements are made. And I've seen compensation programs set up where it's the greater of over two weeks, a compensation per day or a percentage of a certain amount over a certain amount of productivity. So you can meet those requirements. can kind of meet.
Kiera Dent (31:15)
Mm-hmm.
Fred Heppner (31:16)
Kind of need halfway in between.
Kiera Dent (31:18)
Yeah, and I think that that's where I was saying of I feel like making sure that you're meeting in the middle. I love the idea of being able to protect like, you're right, like not being stuck in this with someone who's not working out and getting stuck, I think is actually something that happens all the time with associates. ⁓ And so I think like, Fred, it was such a fun like,
chat about us. I agree, we need to chat more partnerships because now it's like, okay, we've got these associates, we've got some ideas on it. We've heard about figuring out where we want to go and how we're going to be able to get there and needing to think about our future life and how when we need to transition, you said the three to five years, I think looking for like, what do need to do to be able to buy a practice? If I want to buy a practice, what do need to get? Then we talked about like the DSO offers coming for private practices, and how to assess that through Fred.
And then we moved into associates. So Fred, like that was such a like smorgasbord of topics, which I love. And I think definitely reconnecting because I think there's the next step is like, how do we bring in these associates for partners if we want them? How can we build a legacy practice? That's not necessarily just the DSO. So I'd love to get you back on the podcast and chat partnerships and like alternative transitions beyond, but gosh, Fred, such a fun podcast today.
Fred Heppner (32:10)
It was fun.
I am
happy to do it anytime. I appreciate what you do for dentistry. So I'll absolutely support you and be glad to do it.
Kiera Dent (32:36)
Thank you. Well, Fred, as we wrap up today, were there any last thoughts you had to give to the listeners? And of course, ArizonaTransitions.com, ArizonaTransitions.gmail. If you're looking to transition or associates or what do I do or hey, Fred, I just need help. But any last thoughts you have as we wrap up today?
Fred Heppner (32:52)
Yeah, I think
I tell you a funny quip that I think resonates with most people that I talk to. Dentists are excellent at curing dental disease, at diagnosing conditions and recommending treatments and working with patients to get them well. And, ⁓ coming into an event like purchasing a practice or selling a practice where they've never done it before. They don't have the experience or the education.
going in to understand what to do. I would encourage them to get advice and guidance from a great team. ⁓ I have a deal with my dentist. Mike Smith is brilliant. He has a practice called the biting edge here in Phoenix and he's brilliant. And he and I have an agreement. I don't do my own dentistry.
And he doesn't do his own practice transition stuff or practice management stuff. He relies on me to do that because they're in the middle. meet. So I want him to cure my dental conditions and make sure I'm in the optimum dental health that I could be. And I'm to make sure that I provide the services to him so that if he's looking to acquire a practice or merge an office into his, or figure out how the next plan would be for his practice growth or his transition, that he's going to sit down with me because he understands that that's my expertise and he.
he benefits from.
Kiera Dent (34:15)
Yeah, I love that. That's such a good way to look at it. Let's sit in our lanes. Let's do what we're really good at and not try to be a one-stop shop. I think that that's brilliant, Fred. And I feel like for all those looking for the transitions for what do we do? How can I do it? Reach out, Fred. I think you're a wealth of knowledge. You've been in it for a long time and just truly so grateful to have you on the podcast today.
Fred Heppner (34:36)
It's my pleasure. Absolutely. Have a great day. Talk to you soon. Bye here.
Kiera Dent (34:39)
Awesome. Thank you. And thank you,
Fred. Thank you, all of you. And for all of you listening, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
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