Episodes
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In this episode, we sit down with Bobby Sakaki, an expert in small UAS technology and CEO of UAS Nexus. Bobby shares his insights on the critical role drones play in defense, particularly in light of their impact in Ukraine, and highlights concerns about the lack of a strong and coordinated U.S. and Western industrial base for affordable, competitive drone components. He explores the challenges facing the drone industry, including engineering, supply chain limitations, raising capital, and scaling manufacturing capabilities.
Bobby talks about the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), the Blue UAS program, and MOSA (Modular Open Systems Approach), explaining their importance in ensuring secure and reliable drone technology while addressing differences and challenges in implementation. He provides a breakdown of the drone technology stack (autopilots, radios, payloads, batteries, motors, ESCs and other components) and discusses the need for Western alternatives to Chinese suppliers. Bobby also shares insights from his recent trip to Europe, contrasting the region’s pace of innovation and fundraising environment with the U.S. The conversation wraps up with his predictions for the next five years in the drone industry, the use cases likely to emerge, and his picks for the top five companies making significant strides in the space. -
In this episode, we speak with Brian Streem, Founder and CEO of Vermeer, about his journey from film production to pioneering drone technology in Ukraine’s defense ecosystem. Brian shares why he relocated to Kyiv, how he navigates the challenges of building advanced technology in a warzone, and the surprising ways it boosted his credibility with U.S. and European partners. We explore Vermeer’s Visual Positioning System, the competitive drone market, and Brian’s unique approach to solving problems, starting with listening to customers. It’s a candid, insightful discussion you won’t want to miss.
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Missing episodes?
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In this episode, we sit down with Joerg Dittrich, a leading expert in drone regulations and one of the minds behind the SORA framework. Joerg shares insights on the evolution of drone integration, the development of the specific drone category, and how safety and risk management shape modern drone operations. We explore topics like air risk assessment, drone delivery, drones in agriculture, UTM, and the transformative potential of drones in complex environments. Tune in for a deep dive into the future of unmanned aviation and the regulatory innovations making it possible.
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In this episode we welcome Bob Poole, Director of Transportation Policy and the Searle Freedom Trust Transportation Fellow at the Reason Foundation, who brings his expertise on the complex and often debated topic of airport privatization. We discuss the pros and cons of privatizing airports, examining the potential value to various stakeholders, including government, investors and passengers. As Bob explains, privatization has transformed airports globally, boosting efficiency, revenue potential, and customer service in certain cases. Yet, the U.S. remains an outlier. He explores the reasons why, including unique legal and regulatory constraints, and what the implications might be if U.S. airports followed the global trend.
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In this episode we’re joined by Montie Brewer, former President and CEO of Air Canada, who provides a glimpse into the airline industry from the vantage point of a major airline leader. Montie draws on his experience as a CEO to share insights into how airlines make decisions about their networks and approach technology adoption. For entrepreneurs hoping to break into this space, Montie offers great advice, explaining how airlines, under the scrutiny of passengers, shareholders, and sustainability goals, make or break the technologies you're developing. He stresses that for airlines, decisions are data-driven and focused on clear returns, demanding solutions that enhance operational efficiency and financial performance.
Speaking from the perspective of someone who led a major airline, Montie talks about challenges such as balancing airline schedules with operational performance, predicting block times well in advance, and navigating the complexities of IT upgrades. Montie's reflections, combined with his personal passion for aviation, make this episode a must-listen for anyone looking to navigate the airline industry. -
In this episode, we dive into the FAA's evolving approach to approving waivers and exemptions for complex drone operations, including beyond visual line of sight (BVLOS), 1:many operations, and broadly airspace integration over the past 18 months. Joining us again is Charlton Evans, a trusted expert in FAA drone regulations, who last appeared on episode #35.
Charlton explains the significant shift in how drone OEMs and operators approach the type certification requirement in the U.S. Traditionally, the process involved going through the FAA's Durability & Reliability (D&R) process, which often took four to five years, as seen with companies like Matternet and Percepto. However, since mid-2023, the FAA has introduced a streamlined 44807 type certification exemption process through the Flight Standards Office, focusing on self-declaration. Charlton walks us through this new process, notable waivers, and his expectations for the upcoming Part 108 rulemaking.
We also explore the growing adoption of drone-in-a-box systems, particularly following DJI’s launch of the DJI Dock 2, and finish with a discussion on AI use cases in general aviation. -
Two years ago, we hosted Gen. James Poss to discuss the evolution of drone technologies, their adoption in the U.S. military, and their early use in the war in Ukraine. With significant advancements since then - especially in Ukraine's use of drones - we invited Gen. Poss back to focus on counter-UAS strategies and the concept of attritable mass, including the USAF's major program, the Collaborative Combat Aircraft. We explore various counter-UAS technologies, such as missiles, lasers, drone interceptors, and electronic warfare, in the framework of mobility, survivability, magazine depth and cost per shot considerations.
The discussion also delves into the Collaborative Combat Aircraft program, which aims to restore mass as a military advantage. While the concept of "attritable mass" is not new, we explore why it's vital now and how it compares to past conflicts. Additionally, we examine the role of small UAS in the war in Ukraine, their impact on both offense and defense, and how the U.S. is adapting based on these lessons. Gen. Poss shares his valuable insights from his 30-year military career and leadership in UAS development, highlighting the exciting innovations reshaping modern warfare.
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In this episode of The Vertical Space, we sit down with Kevin Noertker, Co-founder and CEO of Ampaire, to explore the evolving landscape of electric aviation. Kevin shares his perspective on the industry's progress and challenges, particularly in relation to battery development and the delayed timelines for fully electric vehicles. We explore the differences between battery-only and hybrid propulsion, highlighting the advantages and limitations of both technologies. Kevin explains why hybrid propulsion is seeing faster advancements and why it might be the preferred choice for regional air mobility operators. We also discuss the broader implications of electrification on regional air travel, weighing the benefits and drawbacks of electric, hybrid, and traditional aircraft in this space. Finally, Kevin shares valuable advice for entrepreneurs and innovators in the space.
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In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Rob Britton, Principal of AirLearn, who brings five decades of experience in commercial aviation. This fascinating conversation covers the history and future of the airline business, the significance of the hub-and-spoke model, the realities of aviation sustainability, and the challenges and opportunities for advanced and regional air mobility. Throughout the discussion, we explore the enduring value of aviation, the power of market forces, and the critical need for innovation, all wrapped in a spirit of prudent optimism. Whether you're in the industry or just passionate about flight, this episode is one you won't want to miss.
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Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we’re thrilled to bring you a conversation with Jeff Luckett, President and founding member of UPS Flight Forward, a subsidiary of UPS. Since our podcast's inception in 2021, we’ve featured numerous OEMs and service providers from both advanced air mobility and traditional aviation. However, it’s not often that we get to hear directly from the buyers and industry leaders driving the demand for these cutting-edge technologies. Today, we dive deep with one of the key figures in the industry.
Jeff shares his journey leading UPS Flight Forward, where he’s been instrumental in evaluating over 850 different companies to identify those best suited to meet UPS’s unique challenges and opportunities. He reveals the criteria used to differentiate the companies that made the cut from those that didn’t, offering advice to any company looking to collaborate with major players like UPS.
Throughout our conversation, we explore the crucial role of cargo-centric operations in the future of advanced air mobility. Jeff discusses why he believes the cargo market is poised to materialize more significantly in the near term compared to the passenger taxi market. He also emphasizes the importance of understanding the specific needs of organizations like UPS when marketing new technologies and services.
Jeff delves into the operational aspects, explaining why what happens on the ground is just as vital as what occurs in the air. We discuss the anticipated timeline for the introduction and scaling of future aircraft within UPS, UPS’s approach to insourcing versus outsourcing, and his thoughts on integrating new aircraft into the National Airspace System (NAS). -
In this episode, we’re excited to host Srdjan Kovacevic, CEO and co-founder of Orqa. Despite a low public profile, this Croatian team has made significant waves, initially through ultra-low latency FPV goggles for drone racing and now by building their own drones through a fully vertically integrated model. This strategy not only optimizes cost and performance but also positions Orqa as a strong Western alternative to DJI.
Srdjan discusses his view that hardware in the small drone industry is far from commoditized, emphasizing its critical role in achieving optimal performance. He traces this misconception to the early consumer drone market and examines DJI’s innovation-driven dominance. Our conversation explores the benefits and challenges of vertical integration versus system integration, with insights into its impact on ultra-low latency video links. We also delve into how market dynamics and geopolitical events like the war in Ukraine are shaping the drone industry, and Srdjan shares his thoughts on FPV systems, their modern warfare applications, and future drone technology developments. -
Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we sit down with Libby Bahat, Head of the Aerial Infrastructure Department of the Israeli Civil Aviation Authority. Join us as we delve into what makes Israeli airspace unique, given its position as one of the most threatened airspaces in the world.
We explore the Israel National Drone Initiative: its origins, surprising initiators, and current results. Learn about the costs of drone operations in Israel compared to other regions, and listen to Libby's "1, 10, 100" concept related to drone profitability.
Discover how drones are used and managed in Israel, particularly in the context of the ongoing conflict. We discuss the evaluations of advanced air mobility that have taken place in Israel, and which aspects are scaling today. Find out what elements Libby sees scaling in the coming years and what he's most impressed with in advanced air mobility today. -
Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we reconnect with Bobby Healy, CEO and Founder of Manna Drone Delivery. Bobby returns to discuss how Manna has not only met but exceeded initial expectations over the past two years. He dives deep into the details of Manna's unit economics, revealing how they achieve profitability with every flight, even when delivering a single cup of coffee.
Bobby provides insights into the evolution of drone delivery over the past two years. He reflects on initial assumptions versus actual outcomes, highlighting pleasant surprises, disappointments, and his vision for the future. He emphasizes the economic viability of drone delivery, contrasting B2C and B2B strategies and sharing insights on market dynamics.
Moreover, Bobby challenges the status quo of road-based logistics, advocating for a future where drones dominate last-mile deliveries. He also outlines his vision for advancing air mobility beyond drone delivery, offering compelling insights into future industry investments. -
We are happy to welcome back David Stepanek, Executive Vice President and Chief Transformation Officer of Bristow. With his extensive experience and pragmatic insights, David provides a comprehensive view of the evolution and future of advanced air mobility. In this episode, we revisit earlier impressions and assumptions, exploring how they have matured over time. For those who have approached this field with caution and realism, this discussion validates your strategy and offers valuable new perspectives.
David and his team have authored "A Philosophical Guide For Early Operations," offering a thoughtful roadmap for deploying advanced air mobility. As early adopters and implementers, David and Bristow's insights carry significant weight. He emphasizes the advantage of experience in vertical flight and operations for evaluating and scaling this technology.
You'll hear David's summary of the guide, his five-point thesis, observations on health management and flight operational data, the importance of experience in bringing technology to the aviation market, and reflections on how initial assumptions have held up or changed.
Link to the Guide:
https://d1io3yog0oux5.cloudfront.net/_2417d02d32e4b0be3f7af9f8cd89487a/bristowgroup/files/pages/services/advanced-air-mobility/AAM_Philosophical_Guide.pdf -
Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we chat with Don Berchoff, CEO of TruWeather, about the critical impact of weather on aviation. Don highlights how weather-induced uncertainty costs the industry billions and shares staggering numbers on preventable costs. He discusses how aviation has adapted to unreliable weather data and the potential for significant improvements in flight operations and cost reduction.
Listen to Don's insights on the three key elements for better forecasts and the importance of data. We also delve into the challenges and needs of weather forecasting for drones, eVTOLs, and advanced air mobility broadly. Despite a high attrition rate due to weather, the aviation industry's willingness to invest in better systems remains a challenge. Luka and Peter push Don on whether the industry can afford to invest in improved weather systems.
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Welcome back to The Vertical Space and our discussion with Niels Kalshoven, Head of Drone Innovation Program at Port of Rotterdam and Co-founder Drone Port Rotterdam. This is one of the few discussions where we're speaking with someone without an aviation, OEM, or advanced air mobility background, but with experience where drones will be used - in this case at a maritime port, the Port of Rotterdam.
Building upon previous discussions with Andrew Hately, Niels delves into current and future drone applications in the Port of Rotterdam, highlighting U-Space implementation, scale of operations, and the role of ports in providing drone services. This is an interesting business model and it'll be interesting to see what type of service eventually scales at port operations. Will the ports allow their customers to operate drones independently with some type of centralized command and control, or will ports provide some type of centralized service?
It's great to hear how trailblazers are establishing drone operations, how they justify their efforts and spend, and how they see the real value in return from the operations of the future. -
Welcome back to The Vertical Space! Today we're joined by Dan Magy, founder and CEO of Firestorm, a California-based company developing low-cost and modular military UAS systems. Dan's entrepreneurial history includes the founding of Citadel in 2016, a counter drone company employing various technologies, including radio-frequency jamming to detect and mitigate unauthorized drone threats.
As you can imagine, Dan's rich background sets the stage for a really insightful conversation. We kicked things off by framing the counter UAS challenge, highlighting the inadequacy of most technologies developed in the past decade in mitigating modern drone threats, particularly on the battlefield. Dan talks about the founding and early days of Citadel and what it was like to navigate the complexities of selling to the government while responding to the urgent need of countering small drones in various hotspots in the world.
We then explore the evolving nature of the drone threat and how this is leading to a sophisticated cat-and-mouse dynamic. We talk about the new realities that warfighters and drone operators in regions like Ukraine are adjusting to and how this is shaping the counter UAS landscape.
Throughout the conversation, Dan draws parallels to Firestorm's strategy of overwhelming adversaries with mass and modularity. We also touch upon the significance of product and user interface simplicity, how to ensure long-term defensibility of drone companies, the reasons why U.S. drone companies are struggling in Ukraine, and some emerging technologies on the horizon that Dan is excited about. -
Welcome to another episode of The Vertical Space where we sit down with Andrew Coleman, leader of GE Aerospace's software business. In this conversation, we explore the critical intersection of traditional aviation and advanced air mobility, delving into the effective use of data for meaningful insights. Discover how GE mines, analyzes, and provides data for aviation customers, and how this applies to the evolving landscape of advanced air mobility. From discussing the perception of the value of aviation data to identifying specific use cases for enhancing safety, sustainability, and efficiency, Andrew shares valuable insights that shed light on the future of aviation. Tune in to learn how a focus on targeted use cases and well-defined data can drive success in both traditional and advanced aviation industries.
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Welcome to The Vertical Space podcast and a discussion with Lorne Cass, an aviation executive who most recently served as Vice President of American Airlines' Integrated Operations Center, and is the current RTCA Chair. Lorne knows where aviation has been, where it is today and talks about how he believes we're going forward in aviation.
You'll enjoy Lorne's overview of the aviation industry, airline operations, and the challenges faced by airline operations. Few can tell you better about the opportunities available to our innovators facing not just tomorrow's challenges, but today's opportunities for near term operational optimization. Innovators and their investors should take note.
There are so many opportunities for innovators from Lorne's discussion. Starting with where he believes few agree with him on, to the challenges airlines and airports face today, to the requirements of today's and tomorrow's operators, to the challenges and opportunities of air traffic optimization and to the requirements and opportunities for data sharing and coordination in our complex airspace.
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In today's episode, we sit down with Uma Subramanian, a seasoned aviation expert with a wealth of experience in the industry.
Having known Uma for many years, we've been really eager to bring her insights to our audience. From her time as an engineer working on F-18s, to doing corporate development and strategy at Rolls Royce, to leading the urban air mobility network Voom, an Airbus company, to being the founding CEO of Aero, an airline catering to premium passengers, from March 2019 to September 2023, Uma truly brings a unique perspective to the table.
Our conversation with Uma covers a wide range of topics, from the genesis of Aero and the economics of running an airline to the challenges and opportunities in the ever-evolving aviation industry. One particularly contentious topic we explore is the ongoing debate surrounding Part 135 and Part 380 regulations, sparked by the success and recent public discourse around JSX.
Throughout our discussion, we delve into the intricacies of airline operations, exploring questions such as the right strategies for profitable growth, the role of labor in shaping airline policies, and the regulatory structures that either hinder or foster innovation in air travel. We also touch upon exciting developments in electric aviation and the potential for regional air services in the U.S., shedding light on the future of aviation and the path forward for industry innovation.
So join us as we unpack the complexities of starting and running an airline, navigate the economics of air travel, and explore the fascinating intersections of innovation and regulation in aviation.
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