Scripture and the Public Square

Episodes

Extremism and the Path Back to Peace
29 Oct· Trinity Forum Conversations
Extremism and the Path Back to Peace with Elizabeth Neumann
The appropriation of Christian images and language by extremists who advocate violence has become a shocking feature of our time. Surveys show alarming numbers of people who self-identify as religious expressing openness to political violence. Against such a distortion of Christian witness, how can we faithfully live out our calling to be people of peace?

Today's episode features our recent conversation with national security expert Elizabeth Neumann, who offers insight and a sobering perspective on how radicalization has taken root among us and what we can do:
“Find ways to check your in-group assumptions about their narratives. Particularly when the narratives involve others.” - Elizabeth Neumann
As we approach a national election, we hope this conversation helps you thoughtfully evaluate your own assumptions, and strengthens you to serve as a non-anxious presence within your broader community.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in October of 2024. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Elizabeth Neumann.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Kingdom of Rage: the Rise of Christian Extremism and the Path Back to Peace, by Elizabeth Neumann
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Children of Light and Children of Darkness, by Reinhold Niebuhr
Politics, Morality, and Civility, by Vaclav Havel
The Origins of Totalitarianism, by Hannah Arendt
The Federalist Papers
A Practical View of Real Christianity, by William Wilberforce,
Who Stands Fast? by Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
Related Conversations:
Hope Beyond Tribalism with James Mumford
Faith, Fear & Conspiracy with David French
The Fall, the Founding and the Future of American Democracy
How to Be a Patriotic Christian
To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society
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Reissue: The Challenge of Christian Nationalism with Mark Noll and Vincent Bacote
15 Oct· Trinity Forum Conversations
The Challenge of Christian Nationalism with Mark Noll and Vincent Bacote

As the lines between faith, politics, and patriotism have become, in some quarters, increasingly blurred, it is increasingly important to understand the origin, ideas, and consequences of Christian Nationalism — what it means, why it matters, and how best to respond.
“Responsible Christian patriots try to show how Christianity can be a service to the nation; extreme nationalists make Christianity a servant of the nation.” - Mark Noll
“If you think about the cross: patriotism, rightly construed from a Christian point of view, will put the flag at the foot of the cross. Christian nationalism wants to drape the [flag] over them. So is God serving your country, the sponsor of your country, or are you, as a Christian, operating wherever you are and having loyalty, but not your primary loyalty to your country over God?” - Vincent Bacote
We hope you find this conversation insightful and helpful as you consider the state of our culture and shared political life, and your role in reviving responsible Christian patriotism.
This podcast is an edited version of an Online Conversation recorded in June of 2021. You can access the full conversation with transcript here. Learn more about Mark Noll and Vincent Bacote.

Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind by Mark Noll
God and Race in American Politics: A Short History, by Mark Noll
The Civil War as Theological Crisis, by Mark Noll
In the Beginning Was the Word: The Bible in American Public Life, by Mark Noll
The Political Disciple, A Theology of Public Life, by Vincent Bacote
Reckoning with Race and Performing the Good News, by Vincent Bacote
The Spirit in Public Theology: Appropriating the legacy of Abraham Kuyper, by Vincent Bacote

Related Trinity Forum Readings:
A Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass
City of God by St. Augustine of Hippo
Children of Light and Children of Darkness by Reinhold Niebuhr
Letter from a Birmingham Jail by Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

Related Conversations:
Rebuilding our Common Life with Yuval Levin
The Challenge of Christian Nationalism with Mark Noll and Vincent Bacote
The Decadent Society with Ross Douthat
Science, Faith, Trust and Truth with Francis Collins
Beyond Ideology with Peter Kreeft and Eugene Rivers
Justice, Mercy, and Overcoming Racial Division with Claude Alexander and Mac Pier
Healing a Divided Culture with Arthur Brooks
After Babel with Andy Crouch and Johnathan Haidt
Trust, Truth, and The Knowledge Crisis with Bonnie Kristian
Hope in an Age of Anxiety with Curtis Chang & Curt Thompson

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

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Truth & Trust with Francis Collins
1 Oct· Trinity Forum Conversations
What does wisdom mean for Christians in an age of polarization, cynicism, and distrust? In confronting the unique concerns of our time, what can help us become wise?
On our podcast, Dr. Francis S. Collins joins us to discuss his new book, The Road to Wisdom, illuminating how truth, science, faith, and trust work together to help us discern the best path forward in life:
“I think the time has come for many of us to say, I think I need to be part of a solution here. I need to say, it's not enough to say things shouldn't be like this. I'm ready to say, I shouldn't be like this. Let me try to get my house in order, get my worldview reset to the truth, to faith, if that's who I am, and not let all of this other noise out there knock me off my road to wisdom in a way that's bad for me and bad for my society.” - Francis Collins
We hope this conversation helps you reflect on the acquisition of wisdom, and how Christians in particular might become agents of healing and trust building in the midst of a cynical and polarized culture.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in September 2024. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Francis Collins.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
Jonathan Haidt
The Road to Wisdom, by Francis S. Collins
The Language of God, by Francis S. Collins
René Descartes
David Hume
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Telling Truth to Kings, by Reinhold Schneider
Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley
Politics and the English Language, by George Orwell
Augustine's Confessions
The Wager, by Blaise Pascal
The Lost Tools of Learning, by Dorothy Sayers
Related Conversations:
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
Towards a Better Christian Politics
Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
What Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
Scripture and the Public Square
How to be a Patriotic Christian
Life, Death, Poetry & Peace with Philip Yancey
The Fall, the Founding, and the Future of American Democracy
Fear and Conspiracy with David French
Words Against Despair with Christian Wiman
Hope Beyond Tribalism with James Mumford
To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Hope Beyond Tribalism with James Mumford
17 Sep· Trinity Forum Conversations
Hope Beyond Tribalism with James Mumford
Amidst a culture of political tribalism and personal loneliness, how can we more clearly, creatively, charitably, and faithfully think and engage with our neighbors? What kinds of practices of mind, body, and spirit, might help us to see and act with greater empathy and understanding?
In his book, Vexed: Ethics Beyond Political Tribes, author James Mumford considers these questions and how often our ethical convictions get politically bundled up with others in what he calls a kind of “package deal.”
It’s in examining our own convictions, and the exercise of the moral imagination that we can begin to move beyond tribalism into a greater freedom:
“The sort of engagement relationally that I'm talking about, it's very different from the sort of combative exchange that we see on social media. And so it is a counter cultural project, I think, to disengage, to question our own assumptions, and then also to engage with other people about their own assumptions and their own convictions and how those fit together.” - James Mumford
We hope this conversation helps you to think more clearly about your own convictions, and to view your neighbors, even those with whom you disagree, with greater empathy.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in June 2020. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about James Mumford.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Vexed: Ethics Beyond Political Tribes, by James Mumford
The Righteous Mind, by Jonathan Haidt
T. S. Eliot
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Four Quartets - T.S. Eliot
Children of Light and the Children of Darkness, by Reinhold Niebuhr
Democracy in America, Alexis de Tocqueville
Babette’s Feast, by Isak Dinesen
Politics, Morality, and Civility, by Václav Havel
Related Conversations:
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
Towards a Better Christian Politics
Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
What Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
Scripture and the Public Square
How to be a Patriotic Christian
Life, Death, Poetry & Peace with Philip Yancey
The Fall, the Founding, and the Future of American Democracy
Fear and Conspiracy with David French
Words Against Despair with Christian Wiman

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Words Against Despair with Christian Wiman
3 Sep· Trinity Forum Conversations
Words Against Despair with Christian Wiman
As poet Christian Wiman explains on our podcast, despair is part of the human condition: “I deal with despair because…I don't know how not to, and it would be an evasion not to. And I think if you don't feel it, then you're not paying attention.”
In his new book, Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair, the acclaimed poet chases meaning through words, including memoir and poetry. And in this conversation he explains how he has found relief from despair in poetry, even and especially when poets grapple honestly with despair, “they speak of [despair] as a thing that can be spoken of.”
Wiman returned to Christian faith in part through a terminal cancer diagnosis–one that he has, to his astonishment, now lived with for over 18 years. His work explores themes of illness, love, faith, and the “almost spiritual joy” of encountering a deadly coral snake. We trust you will find in his poetry, and in this conversation with Trinity Forum’s guest host, Tom Wash, a great tonic against despair.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in April 2024. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Christian Wiman.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair, by Chrisitan Wiman
Marylin Robison
Danielle Chapman
William Bronk
William Wordsworth
Every Riven Thing, by Christian Wiman
My Bright Abyss: Meditations of a Modern Believer, by Christian Wiman
Prayer, by Carol Ann Duffy
The Bible and Poetry, by Michael Edwards
Augustine of Hippo
Bittersweet, by George Herbert
Surprised by Joy, by C.S. Lewis
Richard Wilbur
Jürgen Moltmann
When the Time’s Toxins, by Christian Wiman
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Augustine’s Confessions
Devotions by John Donne, paraphrased by Philip Yancey
God’s Grandeur: the Poems of Gerard Manley Hopkins
Bulletins from Immortality, by Emily Dickinson
Wrestling with God, by Simone Weil
Related Conversations:
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
Towards a Better Christian Politics
Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
What Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
Scripture and the Public Square
How to be a Patriotic Christian
Life, Death, Poetry & Peace with Philip Yancey
The Fall, the Founding, and the Future of American Democracy
Fear and Conspiracy with David French

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Faith, Fear & Conspiracy with David French
20 Aug· Trinity Forum Conversations
In his book, Divided We Fall, author David French explores not only the rise of conspiracy thinking, but also the tribalism and alienation that has divided the country. On our podcast, French considers why our unsettling times have proven fertile ground for the growth of conspiracy thinking, especially within the Christian community, and he offers his thoughts on what a Christian response to conspiracy theories might entail:
“Media consumption that is not thoughtfully curated can actually be quite harmful to our perceptions of reality and our fellow man.” - David French
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in 2021. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about David French.
Especially in these chaotic times, we hope this conversation will inspire you to grow in your faith and find the freedom that comes in the pursuit of truth and the ways of its Author.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
The Rise of Isis: A Threat We Can't Ignore, by David French
A Season for Justice: Defending the Rights of Christian Home School and Church, by David French
Home and Away: A Story of Family in Time of War, by David French
Divided We Fall, by David French
Rod Dreher
Cass Sunstein
Bill Bishop
Jonathan Haidt
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Brave New World, by Alduos Huxley
The Federalist Papers
Democracy in America, by Alexis de Tocqueville
Politics, Morality, and Civility, by Vaclav Havel
Children of Light, Children of Darkness, by Reinhold Niebuhr
Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
Towards a Better Christian Politics
Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
What Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
Scripture and the Public Square
How to be a Patriotic Christian
Life, Death, Poetry & Peace with Philip Yancey
The Fall, the Founding, and the Future of American Democracy
To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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The Fall, the Founding, and the Future of American Democracy
6 Aug· Trinity Forum Conversations
The Fall, the Founding, and the Future of American Democracy

What did America’s founders believe about human nature? How might a deeper understanding of their perspective shape the way we think about current and future challenges to our democracy?
On this podcast episode, historian and author Dr. Tracy McKenzie helps us take a closer look at the founder’s view of human nature, what the abandonment of this view implies, and the tension of fallen human beings entrusted with self-governance:
We are storytelling creatures and the stories that we tell one another, the stories that relentlessly we hear in the public square are stories that tell us that liberty and justice and human dignity can all be upheld by leaving our hearts untouched. That's not the message of the gospel. - Tracy McKenzie
This is podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in 2022. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Dr. Tracy McKenzie.
We hope this conversation on America’s history helps you see the present with fresh insight as together we consider how Christians and the Church can play a positive role in the public and political life of our country.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
The First Thanksgiving: What the Real Story Tells Us About a Loving God and Learning from History, by Dr. Tracy McKenzie
A Little Book for New Historians: Why and How to Study History, by Dr. Tracy McKenzie
We the Fallen People: the Founders and the Future of American Democracy, by Dr. Tracy McKenzie
Democracy in America, by Alexis de Tocqueville
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
The Federalist Papers
Democracy in America, by Alexis de Tocqueville
Politics, Morality, and Civility, by Vaclav Havel
Children of Light, Children of Darkness, by Reinhold Niebuhr
Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
Towards a Better Christian Politics
Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
What Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
Scripture and the Public Square
How to be a Patriotic Christian
Life, Death, Poetry & Peace with Philip Yancey
To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Life, Death, Poetry & Peace with Philip Yancey
23 Jul· Trinity Forum Conversations
Life, Death, Poetry & Peace with Philip Yancey
Life has changed dramatically in the 400 years since John Donne wrote his Devotions. Yet despite the advances of the intervening centuries, we find that, like Donne, we are still subject to sickness and death. We still long for comfort. We still want to know what God is saying to us.
Author Philip Yancey has found surprisingly relevant answers to these perennial questions in the works of John Donne. Updating the great poet’s work for modern readers in his book UNDONE: A Modern Rendering of John Donne’s Devotions, Yancey has given us a devotional treasure, particularly for those in the midst of trial and suffering:
God is on the side of the sufferer. And that's so important. When I go to places like Virginia Tech or Columbine in my backyard here in Colorado or various places and talk about pain and suffering, it's just an important point to get across. And I know that's true because God gave us a face. God showed us what God is like in human form. - Philip Yancey
This is a conversation rich with insights into the problem of pain and the human condition, and full of comfort as we get a clearer picture of God in the face of Jesus. We hope that it encourages you deeply and that you’ll share it with others.
This is podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in 2024. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Philip Yancey.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
UNDONE: A Modern Rendering of John Donne’s Devotions, by Philip Yancey
Where Is God When It Hurts, by Philip Yancey
In His Image, by Philip Yancey and Paul Brand
Disappointment with God, by Philip Yancey
The Jesus I never Knew, by Philip Yancey
What's So Amazing About Grace, by Philip Yancey
Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions, by John Donne
The Art of Dying, by Lydia Dugdale
Dr. Paul Brand
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Sacred and Profane Love, the poetry of John Donne
Wrestling with God, by Simone Weil
Bulletins from Immortality: Poems by Emily Dickinson
Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl
Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
Towards a Better Christian Politics
Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
What Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
Scripture and the Public Square
How to be a...
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How to be a Patriotic Christian
9 Jul· Trinity Forum Conversations
How to be a Patriotic Christian
The topic of Christian nationalism takes us into deep questions of how we understand and live out our allegiances to both our country and the kingdom of God, how we ought to relate to our neighbors, and how we should pursue justice and flourishing within our nation.
It's also a topic rife with confusion and uncertainty. But what is Christian nationalism, and how is it different from a robust patriotism? On our podcast we explore these questions with scholars and authors Richard Mouw and Paul D. Miller who help us distinguish between living out one's faith in the public square and instrumentalizing faith for political ends:
"Because I think America is in fact, so great, it means it is so tempting to idolize America because it's just one of the greatest things. Anything we idolize becomes destructive, and it can be destructive individually of our spiritual lives. But when you idolize a nation, that nation can be unbelievably destructive." - Paul D. Miller
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in 2023. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Richard Mouw and Paul D. Miller
We hope that this conversation has been helpful in articulating what it means to be a patriotic Christian, and in offering better language and frameworks for wrestling with questions of how to live out our faith in the public square.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Uncommon Decency: Christian Civility in an Uncivil World, by Richard Mouw
Pluralisms and Horizons, by Richard Mouw
Praying at Burger King, by Richard Mouw
How to Be a Patriotic Christian: Love of Country as Love of Neighbor, by Richard Mouw
The Religion of American Greatness: What’s Wrong with Christian Nationalism, by Paul D. Miller
This America: The Case for the Nation, by Jill Lepore
Aristotle
Plato
Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
Augustine
C.S. Lewis
Richard John Neuhaus
Simone Weil
John Calvin
St. Thérèse of Lisieux
George Orwell
Curt Thompson
Frederick Douglass
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
City of God, by Augustine
The Children of Light and The Children of Darkness, by Reinhold Niebuhr
Wrestling with God, by Simone Weil
Letter from Birmingham Jail, by Martin Luther King Jr's
Democracy in America, by Alexis de Tocqueville
Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
Towards a Better Christian Politics
Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
What Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
Scripture and the Public Square
To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Scripture and the Public Square
25 Jun· Trinity Forum Conversations
The language of the Bible has often been invoked in American political discourse through the centuries. Quoted by suffragists and secessionists, invoked in arguments for (and against) American independence, the Civil War, and cited by virtually every President across parties.
So how should we discern a faithful application of scripture in public life from instrumentalizing the Bible for political purposes? What can we learn from America’s history of using the Bible in politics?
Theologian, speaker and author Kaitlyn Schiess helps us think more carefully and clearly about our history and these challenging questions on our latest podcast:
"When I look throughout history and when I look at other communities of Christians throughout even our own history in our own country, I see instances, especially of people that are not the main focus of most of the church history textbooks that I read in seminary, who were faithful, who interpreted scripture well, who acted well in history. And that's been really surprisingly hopeful to me, I know now to go to other Christians in other times and places around the world too, and see instances of faithfulness." - Kaitlyn Schiess
As our election cycle continues to twist and turn toward the ballot box in November, we hope this conversation will provoke new ways of thinking about scripture and its faithful application for the common good.

This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in 2023. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Kaitlyn Schiess here.

Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
The Ballot and the Bible, Kaitlyn Schiess
Liturgy of Politics: Spiritual Formation for the Sake of Our Neighbor, by Kaitlyn Schiess
John Winthrop
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
City of God, by Augustine
The Federalist Papers
Who Stands Fast, by Dietrich Bonhoeffer
The Children of Light and The Children of Darkness, by Reinhold Niebuhr
Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
Towards a Better Christian Politics
Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
What Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society.

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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What Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
11 Jun· Trinity Forum Conversations
What Really Matters with Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
Ours is an age that values and valorizes productivity, speed, and scale, and emphasizes precise and perpetual measurement and management of those markers. A whole range of organizations, including nonprofits, and even churches, as well as individuals believe that what is valuable is empirical and measurable, and that those measurements show us what's real and what really matters.
Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth today offer a radically different way of seeing the world. They assert that it is not the empirical but love that is, in their words, the highest way of knowing and the trustworthy basis of the imaginative and creative good. They argue that the small aspects of life, whether it's cooking or gardening, music making, hospitality, or family matters–those things that often seem not to matter so much are actually what matters most. It's an invitation toward fruitfulness, and a new way of understanding and living:
“Fruitfulness is what God talks so much about what Jesus talks so much about and it is really something that he is doing in us and with us as we turn towards him. We can't really measure it. We can't really see it. We don't tally it up for ourselves. It's more of a trust that if we walk in the faithful path that God has for us, we can trust that there is a fruitfulness and that it's God's to measure. And I think there's a real freedom in that.” - Andi Ashworth
We hope this conversation sparks your creativity and encourages you to look differently at the small matters of life that matter a lot.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in 2024. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth here.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Martin Luther King Jr.
Real Love for Real Life: The Art and Work of Caring, by Andi Ashworth
Wild Things in Castles in the Sky: A Guide to Choosing the Best Books for Children, by Andi Ashworth
Why Everything That Doesn't Matter Matters So Much, by Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth
The Call, by Os Guinness
Steven Garber
Francis Schaeffer
Frederick Buechner
Eugene Peterson
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Babette's Feast, by Isak Denison
Hannah and Nathan, by Wendell Berry
Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard
Bright Evening Star, by Madeline L'engle
Letters from Vincent Van Gogh

Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
Towards a Better Christian Politics
Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
28 May· Trinity Forum Conversations
Christian Pluralism: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference
The term ‘pluralism’ has been subject to misunderstanding – even misuse – over the past several years. Some read or hear the word and think simply of a multiplicity of opinions. Others think of a sort of moral relativism that affirms your truth and my truth, no matter how contradictory they may be. Others still may think of this as some sort of squishy interfaith unity that denies matters of ultimate importance.
In a conversation with John Inazu, Trillia Newbell, and Michael Wear we dive into the meaning of pluralism and how it is that Christians in particular can live faithfully amidst a world of difference. These careful writers and thinkers help us begin to grasp a more robust vision for Christian pluralism:
“We are all actually called to be reconcilers. Any one of us who have professed faith in Jesus Christ, we are called to a ministry of reconciliation. That means a proclamation of the gospel. So sharing the good news of Jesus Christ to the world around me, to my neighbors, to my friends...I believe that the greatest love that we can extend to others is Jesus.” - Trillia Newbell
We hope you’re inspired by this conversation about hope, justice, faithfulness, and love, even in the midst of change, challenge, and conflict.
This podcast is an edited version of an evening conversation recorded in 2020. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about John Inazu, Trillia Newbell, and Michael Wear.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Liberty’s Refuge: The Forgotten Freedom of Assembly, by John Inazu
Confident Pluralism: Surviving and Thriving Through Deep Difference, by John Inazu
Uncommon Ground: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference, by John Inazu
Sacred Endurance, by Trilia Newbell
If God Is For Us, by Trilia Newbell
Fear and Faith, by Trilia Newbell
God’s Very Good Idea, by Trilia Newbell
Reclaiming Hope: Lessons Learned in the Obama White House About the Future of Faith in America, by Michael Wear
Christianity, Pluralism, and Public Life in the United States: Insights from Christian Leaders, by Michael Wear and Amy Black
Tim Keller
Russell Moore
Toni Morrison
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
The Federalist Papers
City of God, by Augustine of Hippo
The Children of Light and the Children of Darkness, by Reinhold Niebuhr
Politics, Morality, and Civility, by Václav Havel
Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
Towards a Better Christian Politics

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society
Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Towards a Better Christian Politics
14 May· Trinity Forum Conversations
The relentless pull and pressure of partisan antagonisms and tribalism have fractured friendships, families, communities — and churches. In a time of conflict over what is good and confusion over what is true, what can church leaders do to cultivate a more faithful form of civic engagement? How can we learn to discern the call to love and justice amidst the clamor of political wars?
On our latest podcast, three wise men, as Cherie affectionately calls them, address these pressing questions. Curtis Chang, David French, and Russell Moore are each writers, scholars, and thinkers who have made courageous and insightful contributions towards a better Christian politics and we’re delighted to share their comments from an evening conversation in 2023 with you:
“Be of great hope. Because the after party is coming…It's the wedding feast of the lamb when Jesus returns to cleanse his church, made spotless. And in that moment, the restoration not of the church, but of the world at war where the swords are beaten into plowshares, the spears into pruning hooks. That's the after party that's coming. So if you know how the story ends, how can we not have great hope? - Curtis Chang
This podcast is an edited version of an evening conversation recorded in early 2023. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Curtis Chang, David French, and Russell Moore.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Divided We Fall, by David French
The Courage to Stand, Facing Your Fear Without Losing Your Soul, by Russell Moore
Onward: Engaging the Culture without Losing the Gospel, by Russell Moore
The Storm Tossed Family: How the Cross Reshapes the Home, by Russell Moore
Losing our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical Christians, by Russell Moore
The Anxiety Opportunity, by Curtis Chang
Ernest Hemmingway
The Big Sort, by Bill Bishop
Cass Sunstein
Constitution of Knowledge, by Jonathan Rauch
The Moviegoer, by Walker Percy
The Righteous Mind, by Jonathan Haidt
High Conflict, by Amanda Ripley
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
The Federalist Papers
City of God, by Augustine of Hippo
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A Life Worth Living with Miroslav Volf
30 Apr· Trinity Forum Conversations
A Life Worth Living
What makes a good life? What habits of attention, reflection, and action orient us towards knowing, desiring, and doing what is good, true, and beautiful? Such “big questions” may seem unanswerable and intimidating — but their exploration is at the heart of the human quest for meaning.
Drawing on his popular Yale course, theologian Miroslav Volf joined us to reflect on what makes for a flourishing life in our times:
“You realize that there are things that are much more important. I mean this is the life of fullness. This is his life of weight. [It is the] arduous life that is, in fact, the truly happy life.
Despite the real challenge of human suffering and pain, Volf argues that happiness is possible and that an examined life that grapples with the good in our emotions, circumstances, and actions is a life worth living.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in early 2024. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Miroslav Volf.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Exclusion and Embrace, by Miroslav Volf
Life Worth Living: A Guide to What Matters Most, by Miroslav Volf, Matthew Croasmun, and Ryan McAnnally-Linz
Friedrich Nietzsche
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl
On Happiness, by Thomas Aquinas
Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley
How Much Land Does a Man Need, by Leo Tolstoy
Wrestling with God, by Simone Weil
Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear
The Kingdom, the Power & The Glory with Tim Alberta
To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society
Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory with Tim Alberta
16 Apr· Trinity Forum Conversations
The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory with Tim Alberta
American Christians are certainly not immune to the anger, division, and fear that characterize our political moment. For many, the prospect of another election year is a source of dread or of numb exhaustion; others have responded with aggression or defensiveness.
On our podcast, author and journalist Tim Alberta encourages us toward a better media diet, and to remember where our true allegiance lies:
“I would pray alongside of you that in our political and civic engagement, no matter who it is that we ultimately vote for, no matter what policies we support, that our allegiance is never to the Donkeys or to the Republicans. Our allegiance is never to a political figure.
“We have a king, we have a kingdom, and the best way for us to retain our saltiness is to prioritize that allegiance and that allegiance alone.”
We hope this conversation, coming in a heated election year and at a time of great political import for our nation, is, in fact, a kind of spiritual balm to you. May Tim’s guidance help us to retain our distinctiveness as we engage in the public square for the common good.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in early 2024. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Tim Alberta.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
American Carnage, by Tim Alberta
The Kingdom, the Power and the Glory, American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism, by Tim Alberta
Rush Limbaugh
Robert Jeffress
Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Children of Light and The Children of Darkness, by Reinhold Niebuhr
City of God, by Augustine
Politics, Morality and Civility, by Václav Havel

Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
Connecting Spiritual Formation & Public Life with Michael Wear

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Connecting Spiritual Formation and Public Life with Michael Wear
2 Apr· Trinity Forum Conversations
Connecting Spiritual Formation and Public Life with Michael Wear
In the midst of what is proving to be a frustrating, fractious, and even frightening election year, how can Christians best respond to the situation in front of us, and how can we offer a positive contribution to our common life?
Drawing on the life and work of the late philosopher Dallas Willard, Michael Wear helps us explore what true spiritual formation could mean for the reformation of our polarized political life:
“We need to retrieve a sense that we live in a moral universe in which moral decisions are not optional. We make moral decisions all of the time, and our politics is actually not absent of moral assertion.
“You could say our politics today is actually more robustly full of moral assertions than it has been at any other time this century.”
We trust that you’ll be encouraged by Michael’s call to gentleness in our politics and his practical suggestions of Christian practices that help orient our hearts in the midst of cultural confusion and political fractiousness.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in early 2024. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Michael Wear.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
The Divine Conspiracy, by Dallas Willard
Reclaiming Hope, by Michael Wear
The Spirit of our Politics, by Michael Wear
Christian Smith
American Grace, by David Campbell and Robert Putnam
The Allure of Gentleness, by Dallas Willard
Eitan Hersh
The Spirit of the Disciplines, by Dallas Willard

Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Abraham Lincoln: The Spiritual Growth of a Public Man
Letter from Birmingham Jail, by Martin Luther King Jr.
City of God, by Augustine
Politics, Morality and Civility, by Václav Havel
Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
26 Mar· Trinity Forum Conversations
Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura
If at the center of reality is a God whose love is a generative, creative force, how do humans made in God’s image begin to reflect this beauty and love in a world rent by brokenness and ugliness?
As Mako argues on our latest podcast, it’s in the act of making that we are able to experience the depth of God’s being and grace, and to realize an integral part of our humanity:
“Love, by definition, is something that goes way outside of utilitarian values and efficiencies and industrial bottom lines. It has to…and when we love, I think we make. That's just the way we are made, and we respond to that making. So we make, and then when we receive that making, we make again.”
Artistry and creativity are not just formative, but even liturgical in that they shape our understanding of, orientation towards, and love for, both the great creator and his creation.
We hope you’re encouraged in your making this Lenten season that the God who created you in his image delights in your delight.
If this podcast inspires you, and you’re so inclined, we’d love to see what you create, be that a painting, a meal, a poem, or some other loving, artistic expression. Feel free to share it with us by tagging us on your favorite social platform.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in 2021. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Makoto Fujimura.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Art + Faith: A Theology of Making, by Makoto Fujimura
William Blake
Vincent VanGogh
N. T. Wright
Esther Meek
Jaques Pépin
Bruce Herman
Martin Luther King Jr.
The Gift, byLewis Hyde
Amanda Goldman
T. S. Eliot
Calvin Silve
David Brooks

Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Babette's Feast, by Isak Dinesen
Four Quartets, by T.S. Eliot
Pilgrim’s Progress, by John Bunyan
Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard
God’s Grandeur, by Gerard Manley Hopkins

Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walking as a Spiritual Practice with Mark Buchanan
To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Walking as a Spiritual practice with Mark Buchanan
19 Mar· Trinity Forum Conversations
What does it mean to walk with God? The spiritual life is so often described as a walk, journey, or pilgrimage that it can be easy to dismiss the practice of walking as a mere metaphor.
But in God Walk, author, pastor, and professor Mark Buchanan explores the way that the act of walking has profound implications for followers of the Way.
Buchanan reflects on the ways in which walking can be both a spiritual practice and a means by which we can deepen our connection to the earth beneath us, our fellow travelers, and the God we worship:
“Hurry is the enemy of attentiveness. And so love as attentiveness is listening and caring and noticing, cherishing, savoring, being awestruck, these things that we feel in a relationship. I am deeply loved by this person because they notice me. I think that that’s how God’s built it. And we can’t get that if we’re moving too fast, if we’re in a hurry.”
We hope you’re encouraged this Lenten season as you learn to walk at godspeed, seeing this embodied act as a profoundly spiritual practice.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in 2023. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Mark Buchanan.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Aristotle
Søren Kierkegaard
Jean-Jacques Rousseau
God Walk, by Mark Buchanan
Simone Weil
The Three Mile an Hour God, by Kosaku Koyama
Wanderlust: A History of Walking, by Rebecca Solnit
Knowing God, J.I. Packer
Kai Miller

Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Pilgrim’s Progress, by John Bunyan
Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard
God’s Grandeur, by Gerard Manley Hopkins
Long Walk to Freedom, by Nelson Mandela
Brave New World, by Alduous Huxley

Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
Reading as a Spiritual Practice with Jessica Hooten Wilson
To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society.
Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Reading as a Spiritual Practice Jessica Hooten Wilson
5 Mar· Trinity Forum Conversations
What if we viewed reading as not just a personal hobby or a pleasurable indulgence but as a spiritual practice that deepens our faith?
In her book, Reading for the Love of God, award-winning author and Trinity Forum Senior Fellow Jessica Hooten Wilson explores how Christian thinkers—including Augustine, Julian of Norwich, Frederick Douglass, and Dorothy Sayers—approached the act of reading.
She argues that reading deeply and well can not only open a portal to a broader imagination, but is akin to acquiring travel supplies for the good life:
“What I'm hoping to see more of is that the church becomes again those people of the book that really try to make others belong and strive for a deeper connection, versus the party atmosphere that our world always is tempting us to do.”
We hope you’re encouraged this Lenten season as you learn to read as a spiritual practice, finding grace and wisdom for living well along the way.
This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in 2023. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Jessica Hooten Wilson.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Learning the Good Life: Wisdom from the Great Hearts and Minds That Came Before, by Jessica Hooten Wilson
Giving the Devil His Due, by Jessica Hooten Wilson
The Scandal of Holiness: Renewing Your Imagination in the Company of Literary Saints, by Jessica Hooten Wilson
Reading for the Love of God: How to Read as a Spiritual Practice,, by Jessica Hooten Wilson
Walker Percy
The Life you Save May Be Your Own, by Flannery O'Connor
Fyodor Dostoevsky
Boethius
Augustine
Mystery and Manners, by Flannery O’Connor
St. Basil
Origen
People of the Book, by David L. Jeffrey
A History of Reading, by Alberto Manguel
Jerome
Andy Crouch
Dana Gioia
Dorothy Sayers
Ross Douthat
Life Together, by Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Julian of Norwich
Dante Alighieri
Eugene Peterson

Related Trinity Forum Readings:
Revelation, Flannery O'Connor
The Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass
Augustine's Confessions
The Grand Inquisitor, by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Moses Man of the Mountain, by Zora Neale Hurston
God's Grandeur: the Poems of Gerard Manley Hopkins

Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd
Pursuing Humility with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Pursuing Humility, with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
20 Feb· Trinity Forum Conversations
Pursuing Humility, with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn
In an age when self-promotion is often celebrated as a sign of leadership and strength, humility may seem a lost virtue. Or alternatively, a form of moral condolence for the less successful.
In his recent work, Learning Humility, theologian Richard Foster argues that humility is actually strength, and that learning humility is more needed than ever. As Foster explains, humility releases us from a preoccupation with self, and allows us to live a life of freedom:
“One of the dangers among religious folks is that they can become stuffy boars. And it is hilarity that frees us from that. We don't take ourselves so seriously. We can laugh at our own foibles. If you look carefully… it's not hard to identify humble people. You'll find the freedom that they have to just enjoy life and enjoy other people, enjoy the successes of another person rather than being envious of it. Things like that. And so that's why humility, the most basic of the virtues, opens us up to a life of freedom.”
May Foster’s call to humility, and pastor and writer Brenda Quinn’s practical insights on living it out in leadership and community, inspire you this Lenten season to contemplate the humility of Jesus and the way of the cross.

This podcast is an edited version of an online conversation recorded in 2022. Watch the full video of the conversation here, and learn more about Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn.
Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:
Learning Humility, by Richard Foster
Celebration of Discipline, by Richard Foster
Streams of Living Water, by Richard Foster
Sanctuary of the Soul, by Richard Foster
The Life With God Bible, contributed to by Richard Foster
C.S. Lewis
Timothy Keller
The Frenzy of Renown

Related Trinity Forum Readings:
The Long Loneliness, by Dorothy Day
Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley
Who stands Fast, featuring Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Babette's Feast, by Isak Dinesen
Wrestling with God, by Simone Weil

Related Conversations:
A New Year With The Word with Malcolm Guite
Music, Creativity & Justice with Ruth Naomi Floyd

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.
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Towards a Better Christian Politics

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Making as a Spiritual Practice with Makoto Fujimura

Walking as a Spiritual practice with Mark Buchanan

Reading as a Spiritual Practice Jessica Hooten Wilson

Pursuing Humility, with Richard Foster and Brenda Quinn