Episodes
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Christine McVie - one of only two British girl rock musicians in the ‘60s and part of the greatest pop soap opera of all time. Neither in the backline or the frontline but occupying a unique middle ground. Packed it in for 16 years then returned to the fold. Lesley-Ann Jones’ fresh and emotional memoir Songbird follows “the trajectory of a male rock star played by a woman”, the home she was keen to escape, the outer limits of life in Fleetwood Mac’s “toxic Camelot” and the rigours of holding her ground in a man’s world. We cover all sorts here including …
… the lasting effect of not having “an ordinary mother”.
… the night in Sunderland that made her think again.
… when your best friend sleeps with your fiancée.
… supporting the Shadows when she was 15 at the 2I’s in Soho.
… Etta James, Chicken Shack and playing the Reeperbahn.
… why rock stars can never be part of a village community.
… Fleetwood Mac’s West Coast Elysium: “they were all as bad as each other”.
… “cute and dangerous” meets “lifeline and anchor”: the love affair with Dennis Wilson.
… why she and John McVie both needed a wife.
… and her lifelong connection with the blues, “a sadness you can’t cure”.
Order Songbird here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Songbird-Intimate-Biography-Christine-McVie/dp/1789467217
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Nick Heyward was one of our favourite cover stars when we were at Smash Hits in the ‘80s, the days when hardcore Haircut One Hundred fans turned out in Fair Isle sweaters and Sou’Westers. He now lives mostly in Florida, he’s made nine solo albums – one magnificently titled Open Sesame Seed - and he’s toured again with his old band after ten years’ painful separation. Touring the UK in October, he couldn’t be more upbeat about the road ahead – “I can do anything!” – and looks back here at the first shows he saw and played himself. Which involves …
… seeing Count Basie, Ray Charles and Oscar Peterson on the same bill when he was 12.
… “if you stop playing music you’re like the boxer that gave up the fight”.
… pop dress codes, knock-off pop merchandise and trips to Shellys Shoes.
… growing up in Beckenham where Bowie was “the lighthouse beam that made being a pop star possible”.
… old schoolfriends and Haircut One Hundred members Les and Graham and how “we got our friendship back”.
… why seeing XTC was “like plugging into electricity”.
… Buzzcocks and Boomtown Rats at the Croydon Greyhound.
… how he was saved by management.
… singing Love Plus One in Salisbury Cathedral.
… and the lingering thrill of his first reviews (by Graham K Smith and Adrian Thrills).
Nick’s tour dates here:
https://nickheyward.com/
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Episodes manquant?
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“There was no Command-Zed back then!” John Wood engineered or produced some of the most magical, timeless and affecting records ever made - by Nick Drake, John Martyn, the McGarrigles, Fairport Convention, Sandy Denny, John Cale, Squeeze and many more. He’s 85 now and looks back here at a luminous career that started with mastering singles at Decca and transferred to Sound Techniques, the mecca he co-founded in an old cowshed in Chelsea when takes were spontaneous and even the tape-op was part of the performance. He misses those days, when albums were organic and the labels had less control, and talks here about …
… “the age when sound had perspective and seemed three-dimensional”.
… Nick Drake’s confidence and his guiding lights - eg the Beach Boys and Randy Newman (“who I’d never heard of”). And his final nighttime sessions.
… the way Fairport recorded – “We’re only going to do it once” – and why they could make three albums a year.
…managing the girls in the Incredible String Band, “especially when Licorice played drums”.
… John Cale in “maniac mode” and his sudden and unexpected friendship with Nick Drake.
… Cale and Nico at the Chelsea Hotel.
… and why ‘Geoff Muldaur Is Having A Wonderful Time’ was the job he remembers the fondest.
Also mentioned: the Downliners Sect, Judy Collins, The Marmalade, Graham Gouldman and Squeeze.
John’s got nothing to plug and just wanted to talk to us. Thanks, John, and bless your cotton socks.
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Ian Hunter – an image so familiar you’d recognise his silhouette - now lives in Connecticut and he’s just released expanded versions of two of his best-selling solo albums, You’re Never Alone With A Schizophrenic and Short Back N' Sides. He’s 85, born before any of the Beatles. We talk to him here about life growing up in the ‘40s and ‘50s when your father’s a copper and “music wasn’t allowed in the house”, and touch upon …
… the debt he owes Freddie ‘Fingers’ Lee.
… café jukeboxes full of Little Richard, Chuck Berry and Fats Domino.
… beating 165 acts at a talent contest at Butlins.
… the record that made the Beatles (which they didn’t write).
… “a two-piece corduroy suit, open-toed sandals, overweight …”: the Mott the Hoople audition.
… Bowie playing All The Young Dudes – “a monster” – cross-legged on the floor in Denmark Street after they’d turned down Suffragette City.
… why Hendrix was thrown out of Regent Sound studios.
… playing the Reeperbahn in 1963.
… recording ‘Schizophrenic’ with three members of the E Street Band.
… “Do you want a cuddle?” The Mick Ronson recording method.
… the good thing about Covid.
… watching punk bands with Mick Jones.
… plus a ‘dyed-black’ Ford Anglia and the Greatest Record Ever Made.
Order Ian’s re-released albums here:
Buy link: https://ianhunter.lnk.to/sbns
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As the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness draws in, we poke the embers of this week’s rock and roll bonfire and rake out the following chestnuts …
… Maggie Smith on ‘70s chat shows.
… when Radiohead meets Shakespeare.
… the strange, circuitous and downright disgraceful launch of Francis Ford Coppola’s majestically bonkers Megalopolis.
… Chappell Roan and Sabrina Carpenter: the slow ascent of two ‘overnight sensations’.
… is it big events anymore or just a low-level hum of distraction?
… Bryan Ferry as an interpreter: why we love his clubby renditions of Dylan, Amy, Frank, Elvis, Broadway ballads and old sea shanties.
… Movies In Waiting no 97: Butlin’s, skiffle, Hamburg and Ian Hunter’s 26-year clamber to the top.
... can any film still have instant world impact?
… the unsettling structure of the Graham Norton show.
… Simon Raymonde’s dad’s oceanic jazz adventure, 1949.
… plus birthday guest Matthew North sees Wayne Rooney doing Ring Of Fire at a Plymouth open mic night.
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Simon Raymonde’s affecting and beautifully written memoir ‘In One Ear’ records life in the ‘60s growing up with a father who wrote and arranged for Dusty Springfield, Helen Shapiro and the Walker Brothers, the impossibly shy promotional activities of the Cocteau Twins and This Mortal Coil and the struggles and eventual jackpot of the Bella Union record label he founded. He’s so perceptive, observant and self-mocking and we loved this energetic podcast which, among much else, lands upon …
... why 1979 was the Golden Year.
… the time Scott Walker came to his parents’ house.
… why the Cocteau Twins might have tanked in the current age of self-promotion.
… how a loathing for Phil Collins was a Sliding Doors moment.
… the problem with bands that don’t talk to each other.
… why they refused to appear on Top Of The Pops.
… following Rancid and the Ramones at Lollapalooza in 1996 and the sobering events that ensued.
… why the Old Grey Whistle Test was “not a happy experience”.
… the cryptic language of Elizabeth Fraser’s lyrics why he never asked her what they meant.
… “if I hadn’t worked at the Beggars record shop I wouldn’t be talking to you now”.
… why bands are “less naïve now”.
… and “Cocteau Twins - swirling sepulchral shards of sound that patter like raindrops against the windows of your mind” – ©️ the Music Press in 1985.
Order Simon’s book here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/One-Ear-Cocteau-Twins-Raymonde/dp/1788709381
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Abba’s biographer Jan Gradvall met and interviewed Abba many times and builds a fresh picture of their internal chemistry in his new book Melancholy Undercover. Highlights of this illuminating pod include …
… how Sweden rejected their early hits for not being sufficiently “socialist”.
…. the discomfiting early life of Anni-Frid Lyngstad.
… what Max Martin and Denniz Pop thought made Abba’s music so durable.
… Strindberg, Bergman, the climate, the eight months of darkness and the role of melancholia in Swedish pop culture.
… the influence of the Human League on their later catalogue.
… why manager Stig Anderson “became a burden”.
… “Norway has Grieg, Finland has Sibelius, Sweden has Benny …”
… the first band to write about divorce.
… the Abba song with 57 chords and the only two samples Abba ever approved.
… Elvis Costello, Joe Strummer and Ian Dury backstage at a 1979 London show.
… when Sid Vicious ran into Abba at an airport on the Pistols’ 1977 Swedish tour.
… the role of the Lionesses football team, Kurt Cobain, Erasure, U2, Madonna and the Sydney gay community in the Abba revival.
… why the Abbatars are better than Abba.
… the myth of Agnetha as “the Greta Garbo of Pop”.
… and why The Day Before You Came is more than the Abba swansong.
Order Melancholy Undercover here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-ABBA-Melancholy-Undercover/dp/0571390986
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A free-form spontaneous jam this week - the Dark Star of podcasts – which navigates the outer reaches of the rock and roll stratosphere by way of the following …
… was Michael Stipe’s father a military helicopter pilot in Korea?
… our fantasy Odd Couple tragi-comedy: Morrissey and Marr in a thin-skinned middle-aged flat share.
… how the Golden Egg launched Roxy Music.
… can anyone name more than one member of Coldplay?
… did Paddy McAloon’s mum make the sets for the Clangers?
… the ’80s version of the Internet.
… memories of lost London: international magazine shops, drinking in offices, Protein Man, roaming Hare Krishnas, “floating a curry”, wasp-covered sarnies in café windows, band flyers on derelict buildings, the romance of old Fleet Street.
… the tangled saga of Bonfire Of The Teenagers.
… “Oasis is the last of the household-name bands”.
… why Toyah is a movie waiting to happen.
… and birthday guest Jelltex on bands he thought had given up now filling stadiums.
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Mike Batt still wrestles with the emotional legacy of the Wombles, the act that simultaneously made him and cast a shadow over the rest of his career, not least his early days as a songwriter at Liberty Records, discussed here, hired after he’d answered the same ad as Elton John and Bernie Taupin, a time when A&R men wore kipper ties and had Picassos on their wall. He forged a path through psychedelia and into TV and films, taking huge financial risks with musicals, orchestral works and big-selling acts like Katie Melua, his Art Garfunkel hit ‘Bright Eyes’ eventually promoting him from the Haves to the Have-Yachts. Life, he says, has been “like running through traffic”. His memoir is just out, ‘The Closest Thing to Crazy: My Life of Musical Adventures’. All sorts discussed here including ...
… his brief satin-jacketed tenure in Hapshash & the Coloured Coat.
… parallels between record producers and traffic cops.
… Happy Jack and songs about outsiders.
… being in Savile Row when the Beatles played the Apple roof.
… life as “a square” during psychedelia.
… a snatch of abandoned teenage composition ‘The Man With The Purple Hand’.
… John D. Laudermilk and the magic of writing credits.
… how Bright Eyes “got me into the Officers’ Mess of Songwriters”.
… his publishers insisting there was a Womble on the book jacket.
… “circumcising” the world in a seven-crew yacht.
... and feeling simultaneously smug and guilty when driving a Roller.
Order ‘The Closest Thing To Crazy: My Life of Musical Adventures’ here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Closest-Thing-Crazy-Musical-Adventures/dp/1785120840
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Joe Boyd produced Fairport Convention, Nick Drake and many others, released acts from all over the globe on his Hannibal label and has just written a mighty and definitive account of the history of popular music, And The Roots Of Rhythm Remain, tracing the way different sounds from different countries became interwoven. Nobody is better qualified to write this book as you’ll discover from this enthralling conversation. Among the highlights …
… “if Mick and Keith had had Spotify there’d have been no Rolling Stones.”
… the African roots of Little Richard’s horn section.
… how a Zulu folk tune from 1939 ended up on the Lion King soundtrack.
… “Western musicians are governed by keys, valves and frets but what matters is the notes in between”.
… the evolution of ska as rock and roll was too exhausting in the heat of Jamaican dancehalls.
… Alan Freed, the “Pied Piper” that led white American teenagers into black music.
… Duke Ellington and music “too complicated for white audiences to follow”.
… the bossa nova in Nick Drake’s River Man.
… Paul Simon’s Graceland and the meaning of authenticity.
… world music’s problem with drum machines.
.. the attraction of music whose origin you can hear before the vocal comes in.
Order Joe’s highly recommended book here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Roots-Rhythm-Remain-Journey-Through/dp/0571360009
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With Mark Ellen rambling in the West Country it’s left to David Hepworth to talk Alex Gold down from the ledge in the light of the Dave Grohl news and discuss:
• just how many offers come the way of rich and famous rock stars
• whether his recent admission will in any way detract from the most winning smile in rock
• is this an opportunity for Jon Bon Jovi to step up?
• how a quick word from Taylor Swift is worth all the five star reviews in the world
• Nick Lowe’s infallibly entertaining story of Jet Harris and seven pints of Kaliber
• When they organised a reunion of all the progeny of Screaming Jay Hawkins
• ... and the greatest music book ever with Patreon supporter Ed Newman
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The Netflix series of David Nicholls’ worldwide hit novel One Day was Top Ten in 89 countries and he’s been heavily involved in its soundtrack album, a process as enjoyable, he says, as devising the compilation tape the fictional Emma made for Dexter in 1989 featuring the Smiths, Prefab Sprout and Public Enemy. We talk to him here about the glorious pitfalls of using pop music to broadcast your personality. All bases covered, from the Geoff Love Orchestra to Joy Orbison, along with …
… prog rock drummer replacement fantasies.
… when a compilation tape is a Valentine’s card.
… music as a way of telegraphing a time.
… what the 1812 Overture does to a five year-old.
… the eternal impact of Shipbuilding and Running Up That Hill.
… “punk terrified me”.
… classic male musical taste paranoia.
… memories of Live Aid – Bowie onstage, Kiki Dee in the car park.
… buying a knock-off cassette of Sgt Pepper.
… remembering every note of a record you haven’t heard for 50 years.
… and the greatest record of all time!
Order the One Day Netflix soundtrack here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jessica-Jones-Morrish-Anne-Nikitin/dp/B0CXJNM4WV
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Old friend of the podcast, Nick Lowe has just released his 15th solo album, Indoor Safari, and he’s about to tour with Los Straitjackets. This absorbing conversation looks back at 60 years onstage and takes in the following …
… the secret of a long career.
… why he resolved “not to get that famous again”.
… touring Germany aged 15 in Brinsley Schwarz’s dad’s Dormobile.
… the Small Faces at the village hall in Hornchurch.
… to the Six Bells for seven pints with “photographer for all occasions” Jet Harris.
… playing Eddie Cochran and Gene Vincent in the school band and wrestling with the chords to Cliff’s Living Doll.
… Kippington Lodge at Ally Pally, New Year’s Eve 1968, supporting Joe Cocker, the Bonzos and Amen Corner - “the Grand Canyon with a roof”.
… 270 dog walks with his son Roy during Covid and the things they discussed.
… the unique magic of working with “America’s premier instrumental surf band”.
… how ‘I Knew The Bride When She Used To Rock And Roll’ is now a wedding staple.
… and the sole mention of ‘freakbeat’ vendors the Fleur De Lys in the history of our podcast.
Nick’s tour starts at the London Palladium on September 24:
https://nicklowe.com/tour-dates/
Order Indoor Safari here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Indoor-Safari-Nick-Lowe/dp/B0D5TXRLDD
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Louis Armstrong, Wild Man Fischer, Irving Berlin and Lucinda Williams all started out as buskers and Cary Baker’s ‘Down On The Corner’ traces the romance and influence of street players from Ancient Rome via Chicago’s Maxwell Street to Elvis Costello outside the CBS conference and beyond. Cary, David and Mark chuck coins in the conversational hat, among them …
… the turban and rollerblades stagewear of Harry Perry aka “the Skating Sikh”.
… Blind Arvella Gray who took up busking because of a gun battle.
… the sight of Bongo Joe on his daily commute (a moped loaded with steel drums).
… what Mick Jagger learnt from Ramblin’ Jack Elliott.
… Ted Hawkins' journey from Venice Beach to Geffen Records.
… the time Cary met Moondog dressed as a Viking and why he was a symbol of old New York.
… how Billy Bragg learnt festival crowd control playing street corners.
… Madeleine Peyroux, aged 15, playing Paris subways.
… Jesse Fuller, father of the one-man band.
… do buskers now make it via Instagram?
… the only gig where you can play the same song repeatedly.
… and when is busking just noise pollution?
Order Cary Baker’s Down On The Corner here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Down-Corner-Adventures-Busking-Street/dp/1916829104
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We applied dynamic pricing to this week’s news and various stories trebled in value, among them …
… further adventures in the Oasis ticket fiasco.
… the greatest band name ever.
… the only rock star born under Adolf Hitler.
… Marianne Faithfull? Ian Anderson? Elvis Costello? Musicians you’d rather hear talk than play.
… rock stars telling jokes.
… “if it isn’t hard to get it’s not worth having.”
… is hype generated from above or below?
... the return of old-school analogue: David Gilmour’s Golden Ticket.
… the velvet rope and the repercussions of Clubbing.
… and has anyone seen Lobby Lud?
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David’s seventh book in his ‘orange series’ is just out and you’re guaranteed to love it. He and Mark discussed ‘Hope I Get Old Before I Die’ at a sold-out launch event at Waterstones in Piccadilly on the evening of September 3, recorded here. Among the highlights you’ll find …
… the rock career as a three-act play.
… the tour that started the Age Of Spectacle.
… why Live Aid was the dawn of pop nostalgia.
… the rock star who retired from retirement.
… Woodstock – “the Somme with Santana”.
… the terrible fallout in the Byrds.
… why no act is ever forgotten.
… Nick Lowe and the few others who got even better as they got older.
… band reunions are about symbolism not music.
… how the rock generation took power.
… why Ron Wood’s memoir can be read as either comedy or tragedy.
… bands that will achieve immortality.
… why Cameron Crowe’s Almost Famous seems like period drama.
… the worst group ever.
… and the only act that became bigger than the Beatles.
Order David’s new book here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hope-Get-Old-Before-Die/dp/1787632784
https://linktr.ee/dhepworth
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David, Mark and our token bucket-hatted parka monkey Alex tackle the return of Oasis, its grip on the public imagination and why they’re the biggest band of the last 30 years, which includes …
… the Gallaghers’ mixed fortunes since 2009.
… who won the battle of the underdogs.
… “Noel has a thousand buttons, Liam has a thousand fingers”.
… why the ‘90s was just like the ‘60s, a golden age of British pop culture.
… no whizz-bangs required, no props, no choreography, no lasers, no extras … why Oasis is the cheapest stadium gig to stage imaginable.
… what happens to the ticket money between now and the tour.
… Noel, the media and the common touch.
… “a level of public demand that’s almost a sickness”.
… why “Oasis tickets are like utility bills”.
… the fate of bands that fall out with each other’s wives.
… how Liam was rescued by Debbie Gwyther and Noel’s ruinous divorce.
… the kind of watertight contracts and insurance required to ensure the band won’t fall apart again.
… “Liam, stay away from the fruit bowl!”.
… and Mark’s breakfast with Peggy Gallagher.
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In a concerted effort to put the world to rights, David and Mark ruminate upon the following …
… Kylie and the Wiggles? Canned Heat and the Chipmunks? Real or invented pop star/childrens’ entertainer collaborations.
.. the charmed life of Greg Kihn.
… will the BBC have any archive left if it keeps cancelling presenters?
… why Inside Llewyn Davis works and so many other biopics fail.
… the full story of the statement Springsteen made with the Born To Run cover shoot.
… Stewart Lee’s long-running beef with Ricky Gervais.
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Rock journalism as an occupation is rapidly heading in the direction of the watch-mender or lamplighter so Chris Charlesworth’s account of life at the Melody Maker in the ‘70s is already starting to feel like an historic document. ‘Just Backdated’ covers a time when the rock press set the agenda, sold over half a million copies a week and was courted by attention-seeking musicians of every rank, a lost world remembered in this conversation with Mark Ellen which includes …
… the unwritten rules of ‘70s rock journalism and its limitless access.
… the “homesick and slightly lost” John Lennon when living with May Pang.
… life at Melody Maker’s Fleet Street office and staff writer Max Jones’s fling with Billie Holiday.
… touring with Led Zeppelin alongside the 17 year-old Cameron Crowe (part of the inspiration for Almost Famous).
… “Beatles to reform?” and other coverline staples.
… the night Frank Zappa was thrown off the Rainbow stage – ‘people thought he’d been killed’.
… the first British interview with Steely Dan.
… Debbie Harry when she was still in the Stillettos and the day Blondie asked him to manage them.
... why the Bay City Rollers at an airport was “the nearest thing to a nightmare while being awake”.
… his time as MM’s West and East Coast correspondent aka “the best job in the world”.
Order ‘Just Backdated’ here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Just-Backdated-Melody-Maker-Seventies/dp/1915858224
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With David asleep on a French sun-lounger beneath a copy of Summer Lightning, Alex and Mark pour themselves a cold drink and consider …
… the great ska floor-fillers.
… taking kids to rock concerts.
… the fate of all bands: “as musicianship improves, vocals decline”.
… left-field Beatles songs reworked as nursery rhymes.
… why 2-Tone had pop’s “triple threat” (and the genius of Mike Barson).
… of the five big acts with all original members intact, only one should reform.
… how “Tay-gating” became a thing.
… the secret life of Chris Ballew, former leader of minimal grunge trio the Presidents Of The United States of America.
… is the Jam a “young man’s concept”?
… the downside of “Cuddly Liam”.
… Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran: has normality replaced escapism?
… and Frank Carter as the new Johnny Rotten.
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