Episódios
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The Podcast discusses the Digital Transformation challenges that Corporate Legal Departments, in-house legal counsels, and law firms face.
We spoke to Jim Tate, Co-founder and CEO, MyLegal, and Andy Baldocchi, Co-founder and CRO of MyLegal, a Low-Code/No-Code platform for corporate legal departments.
MyLegal partnered with AgilePoint to build its legal ops automation platform, and Jim talks about why the team chose AgilePoint instead of other Low-Code/No-Code and BPM platforms.
Both Jim and Andy share about the strategic shift in the corporate legal departments, the challenges In-house Legal Counsels and LegalOps personnel face, and why MyLegal fits their bill and needs from a solution standpoint.
You’ll find answers to critical questions, including:
What’s the strategic shift taking place in the Corporate Legal Departments?What approach does MyLegal recommend to its customers for legal automation?How should Corporate Legal Offices envision their tech roadmap?Why don’t generic workflow automation tools scale well for enterprise use cases? Crazy problems they create for legal execs/usersWhy MyLegal chose AgilePoint as its underlying BPM platform to build MyLegal?AI/ML Applications in Legal Ops AutomationWhat’s MyLegal doing at the CLOC 2023 Conference? -
We spoke with Sam Sibley, Global Head, PMI Citizen Developer & Interim Head of Disciplined Agile business at the Project Management Institute (PMI). Sam used to play professional tennis, and this gave him a competitive edge that he uses to help startups and PMI. He reveals (i) why PMI has ventured into Citizen Development, (ii) the research study that PMI undertook to understand the market needs around Citizen Development, and (iii) how his organization is assisting medium and large corporations in adopting best practices for Citizen Development. He goes into detail on the process of establishing Citizen Development programs, including:
Suitability AssessmentRisk ManagementGovernanceUpskillingSam mentions success stories of Shell, Schneider Electric, and the Salvation Army. He thinks that Citizen Development will become more popular, and PMI provides the necessary tools, methodologies, and courses to help technology and project leaders add it to their digital transformation projects.
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Wynand intro 00:00–02:44
Wynand's backgroundExperience in customer services and Inovo's progress over timeWynand's perspectives about the contact center operations 04:04–07:40
Evolution of the contact centerExperiencing unsatisfactory services from call centersHow do call center executives handle customer contact?Integration of modern technologies 04:04–16:45
How service-based businesses can embrace modern technologies in their contact center operations?Dealing with customers using technology.Chatbox customer services.Inovo cloud contact center and businesses gaining most from it 19:06–24:23
Orchestrating processes and technologies in a call centerEstablishing a single source of truth for customersSpeech analytics, chatbots, and self-service capabilities -
Phil Simon Intro 00:00—08:22
Phil's BackgroundWhat motivated Phil to write a book on Low-Code/No-Code technologies and Citizen Developers?Phil's perspective on the growth of Low-Code No-Code business applications 09:01—18:18
Factors responsible for the growth of Citizen DevelopmentHow did the pandemic fast-tracked the adoption of Low-Code technologies?About the dual nature of contemporary ITRebranding of the Low Code No Code Tools and the Market Taxonomy 19:39—26:07
How are LC/NC tools rebranding?Market taxonomyCitizen Development Case Studies, Evaluating LC/NC Platforms and Playing the Long Game 27:12—40:02
Citizen Development Case Studies and Success StoriesEvaluating Low Code No Code PlatformsWhat does Phil mean by the term "play the long game"?Phil's parting message -
Useful Resources mentioned in the Podcast
Concepts & Ideas
Innovation LabsInnovation Center (IC)Citizen Development GovernanceFusion TeamsEnd-to-end automationTesting, staging, and productionTools & Resources
Citizen Development, The Handbook for Creators and Change MakersApps
Master Process AppCredit Card Request ProcessKey Takeaways
Hans Hantson Intro 00:00—05:03
Role of Hans at AgilePointLow Code Event in Utrecht Hotel in the Netherlands.Innovation Managers & Citizen Development 05:04—12:33
Demand for quick turnaround off app ideas.Exploring how LCNC platforms can help in ideation and executionIndependence to fail and pivotMisunderstanding about Low Code No Code 13:09—21:55
Evaluating Low Code No Code PlatformsA platform to glue it togetherPMI Handbook and Customer Inspirations 22:55—37:04
Citizen Development, The Handbook for Creators and Change MakersFusion TeamsTesting, staging, or production environments in LCNC platformsRelease management, risk management, and change managementInspiration from customers -
Key Takeaways
“Never automate a crappy process, unless it’s your goal to produce crap faster.”It can be tempting to jump straight to the tech without first considering the process.Matt's Background (03:09) If the process and technology aren’t harmonized to support each other, the results can be poor I Love Lucy: Chocolate Factory (Example) (04:03)
Process Improvement & Matt Hubbard's Intro 00:00—06:06Citizen Development 07:05—08:27
TrackVia is a platform for building apps.Using an LCNC platform at scale can be a competitive advantage, but it must be approached in a wise fashionThe Citizen Development framework and best practices allow customers to grow with LCNC safely and effectivelyCitizen Development is like a box of LegosMatt's Citizen Development Journey 09:32—19:30
Matt's problem-solving natureThe failed software projectMatt's first experience with LCNCCitizen Development at Scale 21:37—34:18
How to move from enjoying pockets of success to creating sustainable cultures of CD innovation? “Dabbling is easy, scaling is hard” – Dave Garrett, Chief Strategy and Growth Officer, PMI (22:11)Hired by TrackVia to bring process excellence and CD to our customersStarted to design my own CD program for operating at a scaleDiscovered PMI’s CD framework and went all-in with PMI (25:17)PMI's Maturity Model of Citizen Development (32:01)Advice to Get Started with Citizen Development 35:08—42:17
Advice for those who want to start a CD program at their company (35:58)Think Big, Start Small, Scale Fast (37:03)Begin with “Discovery”Don’t overthink it --- do it, experiment, learnMy approach with my CD students (40:10)Quotes
So I often preach, never automate a crappy process unless it's your goal to produce crap faster.As Benjamin Franklin said, Tell me and I forget, teach me and I remember, involve me and I learn.It's important to think through processes before flipping the automation switch. Citizen Developers are, they are problem solvers. If you are one who is okay with the way things are today, you like coming in, doing your job, checking the box, and going home, then I would probably say Citizen Development is not for you.I thought, why can't we do that with business applications? Why can't we have a platform that already exists, like the home console for Atari?Process problems and system problems are kind of ubiquitous. They kind of exist at every company. And, this app-building platform, which would later be categorized as low code, no code was back in play. And to make a long story short, I started learning the platform and building my own apps. I'm not a coder; I'm a process person. I think one of the reasons why it didn't scale for me is that I didn't approach Citizen Development in partnership with IT and executive leaders. I have a mantra that I followed when I ran my consulting business and I adhere to it today, and it's called Think Big, Start Small Scale Fast. -
Key Takeaways
[0:00] Microsoft Power Platform’s governance is all about putting the guardrails around the low code platform so that the citizens can keep on developing apps to solve their own problems, deliver a good user experience, and allow them to innovate without locking their activities with IT policies.[7:40] Low-code products like Power Platform aim to fuel a bottom-up innovation.
[8:06] There’s a lot of hype around low-code no-code platforms but a lot of companies don’t understand how they can use these platforms in their environment.[11:50] Jukka and his team of consultants often find individuals or teams using Microsoft Power Platform to build solutions, especially those who were not able to get them built through their IT departments. These are not necessarily the most beautiful apps from a UI or architecture perspective, but very effective from the business results perspective.
[13:20] You need to find those heroes within the organization who already understand that there’s a business need for low-code platforms. These are the folks who are frustrated by the lack of official systems or how long it takes to build them.
[14:40] Power Platform is better than just using the Power Apps because through the platform you can enforce policies and processes to govern several types of solutions and apps.
[16:15] What people generally misunderstand about Power Platform is its commercial plan and positioning of it because Microsoft has bundled Power Apps, Power Automate, and Flow into Office 365 from day one.
[19:27] The big question is whether Power Platform will also be for vendors to build their own products on top of it. Until now what Microsoft has mostly celebrated is Citizen Developers. Jukka and his team have also built their own product on top of the Power Platform, and they call it the ‘Sustainability Action Pack’.
[27:25] Microsoft Power Platform charges users based on license-per-user so you have to assess which use cases it is most suitable for. It might be fit for some use cases but not the right toolkit for consumer-facing apps and scenarios.
[28:20] Power Platform’s future direction can be assessed by seeing how it evolved during the past four years. In the first two years, the focus was still on catering to app makers’ needs, integrating capabilities of Dynamics CRM and Dataverse. During the past two years, the focus was still a lot on admin tools and governance capabilities of the platform.
[32:00] The way we frame Power Platform governance to our customers is that you need policies, controls, and processes for people who are not pro-developers, do not do it for a living, and who don’t have a formal education background in software development. Allow them to use pieces from the cloud in a sensible way.
[34:00] Internal evangelism is important to make LCNC initiatives successful.
[45:00] CRM consultants have done a lot of good work in evangelizing CRMs in organizations, so that type of effort is needed to make Low Code No Code more acceptable.
Quotes
“The way we frame Power Platform’s governance to our customers is that it's all about putting the guardrails all-around low code platforms”.“We are really more focused on helping the organizations themselves take ownership of their tools and build new applications for scenarios that previously haven't had any apps or automation in place”.
“From an IT perspective, the power platform is unique in the sense that many organizations already have it, even though they haven't acquired it. And that's the result of the Microsoft strategy to bundle it with their Office and Dynamics tools”.
“Users of Low Code tools are people who have usually been frustrated by the lack of official systems or how long it takes to get something budgeted and implemented”.
Listen to AgilePoint Podcasts at https://www.agilepoint.com/podcast
Website of Forward Forever https://forwardforever.com/ -
Note: Based on the title of this podcast, if you want to directly listen to Ian Duncan's take on 'Why Transformations fail?' and a meta-framework he uses to approach transformation program management, head over to this timestamp [00:26 — 00:51].
If you prefer to understand the nuances involved in large-scale transformation programs, it's best to listen to the whole episode.
Episode Summary
Why do people resist change in large restructuring or transformation programs? Joining FTI Consulting and what keeps Ian energized, having a personal connection with customers, who inspired him the most, and his take on servant leaders. [00:00 — 11:00]Some people resist change because they don't see where they belong in the outcome of that change process. [00:00] Your job is to, is to actually look at the detractors and understand why are they behaving the way they're behaving? [00:42] Who is Ian Duncan and what’s the significance of his work at FTI Consulting? [01:17] Which verticals does Ian have the most experience in and who inspires him? [05:22]Servant leaders and how they guard their time. [10:22] Where does the buck stop in a transformation program, which ability serves the CEOs the most; why people become protection-driven; how charismatic CEO overcome that challenge in their workforce and ‘Net-Promotor’ view to detect and circumvent people who become roadblocks in a digital transformation program. [11:59 — 20:44]Where does the buck stop in a transformation program? [11:59] How to spot detractors (what FTI calls people roadblocks) in a transformation or restructuring program? [15:32]Managing vendors and the key to keeping a transformation program on track [17:33]What does Ian notice about construction industry projects? [19:13] ‘Commitment-based’ framework to manage large-scale transformation programs that have billion-dollar+ in budgets. [20:44] Why transformation programs fail, the untold truth about large-scale programs; FTI Consulting’s Resilience Barometer Report. [00:26 — 00:51] Why transformation programs fail, engagement with PMI (Project Management Institute) in developing an industry-agnostic Citizen Development Canvas, and Digital Office in the construction industry. [26:00] Untold truths about large-scale transformation programs, the importance of acknowledging mistakes, and avoiding window dressing of failed programs, what’s Ian most interested in learning about? 34:00 Resilience Barometer report by FTI Consulting, the importance of the report for people responsible for driving change in large organizations, and what’s the Buddy program at FTI Consulting? 42:00 Sign-off 00:51List of Resources Discussed in the Podcast
Why Transformations Fail? Time to Reexamine Conventional Wisdom Resilience Barometer Report September 2021 -
List of topics/themes discussed in the episode
Why do you need to tackle the 'unsexy' stuff of enterprise digitalization as a precursor to AI; why does scalability matter more than scale in RPA projects; about Lasse Rindom, and coming up with an organization-wide framework for decentralized management of RPA projects? [00:00-00:18]Proof-of-Concept vs. Proof of Value — 0:15 Lasse's year-end satirical predictions about the enterprise software world on his LinkedIn Profile — 2:35Coming up with an organization-wide framework for decentralized management of RPA projects — 4:30Bad/cliché questions RPA vendors/consultants ask when starting to come up with an RPA solution. — 10:50 How to adopt Low-Code/No-Code apps and even RPA from the SIPOC lens (where LCNC resides in 'I' or Input part of data flow and RPA resides in 'P' or process part of data flow — 14:20 Language gap between IT and business — 18:10 Lasse's background education as a history major, evolution vs. revolution, the danger of posing complex problems as simple, shoemaker's kids have worn-out shoes, and why LCNC makes sense (17:42 — 00:39)Lasse's interesting background as Masters of History and did it help take a more holistic approach to his field of work? 17:42Why does Lasse believe in evolution instead of revolutions? — 21:40What did a history lesson about witches tell Lasse about the importance of being able to acknowledge different world views? — 25:35Why complex problems should not be posed as simple and the danger of doing so (Brexit as an example)? — 28:50Why does it make so much sense to have more Low-Code/No-Code apps? — 00:38Baker Tilly Digital — 00:39SMV.Digital grants program, a valuable 'licensing model' Lasse carved out to globally implement RPA capabilities in ISS A/S, and his year-end predictions [00:44—01:09]What is SMV Digital program for the Danish businesses that can apply for a grant of DKK 25,000? — 00:44 An interesting 'licensing model' for enterprise-grade RPA projects — 00:53Lasse's predictions that he shared on his LinkedIn profile, we discuss two of them; EU Low-Law and the definition of Citizen Developer (CD), and RPA gets to scale, finally. — 00:59 The Low-Code/No-Code pitch, where does it fit into an organization's data flow? 01:07Sign-off — 01:09 -
List of topics/themes discussed in the episode
Introduction 0:00The concept behind Digital Transformation debtThe real-world impact of digital transformation debt
Importance of balancing do-it-quick style innovation with governanceWho is the audience for his book?What’s the drawback of postponing digital transformation and accumulating debt? 15:45Driving a cart with square wheelsExamples where low-code innovation makes the most senseWhich leadership style is more suitable to drive change in an agile way?How do enterprise leaders make low-code/no-code projects become a success story throughout the company? 24:20Role of Center of Excellence in alleviating digital transformation debtWho leads the center of excellence, business, or IT?Parting message to enterprise leaders 43:30What did Dr. Setrag have to say to executives who want to innovate faster without wasting time and money?
