Episódios

  • Are you a small executive search firm striving to stand out among large competitors in the industry? Fear not, for opportunities abound for those who dare to innovate and differentiate. While larger firms may wield extensive resources and brand recognition, small firms possess agility, adaptability, and personalized services that can be leveraged as competitive advantages in the ever-evolving recruitment landscape.

    I am excited to share this episode with special guest, Bob Kondal, a top-performing headhunter in Private Equity and Private Credit. This episode is packed with behind-the-scenes stories from twenty years of experience in recruitment that you don’t want to miss!

    Bob and I touched upon relevant topics such as winning clients as a small firm, storytelling in business, prepping for client meetings, MPC marketing, diversity, and how we achieves a 100% offer to job accepted ratio - that’s right, zero turn-downs.

    Episode Outline And Highlights

    [02:36] Rocky start – Bob’s first recruiting job at Huxley Associates; how he progressed from being on the verge of quitting to becoming the top biller

    [08:42] Bob’s journey from recruiting to equity trading to starting his own search firm

    [10:50] Challenges and successes: Bob’s milestones as a solo search firm owner

    [14:27] How to shift client’s misconception that working with the bigger search firms will yield better results

    [19:30] How to use superior performance metrics as a selling point

    [23:07] Storytelling in business: How to pitch against larger firms and win

    [30:01] Prepping for a client meeting

    [33:18] Memorizing teams: Bob shares why and how he memorized teams

    [40:06] Execution: Bob's process that allows him to achieve zero job turn-downs

    [44:55] Opportunistic introduction: How often Bob uses MPC marketing to spark conversation with potential clients

    [50:29] The trend toward Diversity in private equity and private capital recruitment

    [51:32] Discussion on “Thinking Fast and Slow”

    [1:00:09] Investing in your copywriting skills and Bob’s book recommendation

    [1:01:34] Why Bob practices Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and how it applies to the world of recruitment

    4 Ways to Stand Out From the Competition and Win New Business as a Small Firm

    Bob goes to great lengths to stand out from the competition. He believes that so many recruiters are looking for a quick fee, with little regard for the long-term results, and do not spend enough time understanding candidates or the employer they are representing.

    He describes 4 different strategies he uses to stand out and stay at the top of our game.

    The power of storytelling: Bob attributes their high interview acceptance rates and minimal drop-offs to the clarity of their approach. Instead of simply sending job listings, he advocates engaging candidates through a 30-45 minute discussion about their career.

    Getting market research and execution right: You only need two things in search: research and execution to help you as an organization achieve zero turn-downs and maintain a competitive edge. This enhances attention to detail, which not only wins business but also cultivates stronger client relationships and satisfaction.

    Prepping for client meetings: One of Bob's key insights around client meetings is how extensively he prepares. In addition, he runs the meeting quite differently to other recruiters, for example asking about their investment philosophy.

    Memorizing teams: Bob explains that the client, as a search headhunter, wants to know if you, as a recruiter, know their market inside out. During Covid, Bob set himself a challenge to memorize whole teams, including where they went to university, what they studied and what grade they achieved.



    Like me, you will admire Bob's refreshing, proactive, responsive, and highly professional approaches and how he delivers service to his clients.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Bob Kondal Bio and Contact Info

    Bob has 25 years recruiting experience. He started his career with Huxley Associate in SThree. At the time Huxley were the most profitable company in SThree. Bob was the all-time top producer at Huxley in 2001. He's focused on Executive Search in Private Equity and Private Credit for the past 18 years and runs his own firm, Melrose Partners. He was also an equity investor in the City and was a regular commentator on CNBC. His peers from his previous employer are European and Global Heads at Heidrick & Struggles, Russell Reynolds, Spencer Stuart etc.

    Bob on LinkedIn

    Melrose Partners website link

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

  • Mike is a firm believer that you can win clients through LinkedIn. You will hear an amazing story about how Mike received an inbound enquiry from a VP of HR at a billion-dollar company because of a story he posted on LinkedIn. That senior executive became a client, and gave Mike a lot of repeat business, which might never have happened without that LinkedIn post.

    Mike also shared how consistent posting helps build a “continued relationship” with potential leads that you may have a cold called before. Here are things that you will find insightful in this section of the episode:

    Why consistent posting can win your clients in the long run. Overcoming fear and imposter syndrome when posting LinkedIn content. How to generate ideas for your LinkedIn content.

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    Follow Mike Williams on LinkedIn:

    Carnegie Partners website link

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    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    If you have been enjoying the podcast, please take a moment to leave a review. Your feedback is much appreciated as it helps us reach a wider audience and assist more recruiters.

    Here is the link to leave a review: https://lovethepodcast.com/theresilientrecruiter

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  • Effective employer branding is not just about attracting candidates but also about retaining existing employees. A positive work environment and reputation increase employee satisfaction and reduced turnover. As a recruiter, how can you partner with your client companies to achieve employer branding objectives?

    To answer this question, I am delighted to have a very special guest, Bryan Adams, CEO and founder of Ph.Creative, an award-winning employer branding agency with offices in Liverpool, London, San Diego, and Auckland. Bryan shares insights and strategies on creating an effective storytelling framework to apply this branding philosophy: repel the many and compel the few.

    Bryan helps his clients define their essence as a company, both in its uniqueness and what it stands for, and then crafts and aligns those aspirations with the people his clients are looking to attract. They’ve worked with famous brands such as Apple and Nike. He is also a two-time best-selling author. His latest book is Give & Get:Repel the Many and Compel the Few with Impact, Purpose, and Belonging. He has written for the Harvard Business Review, Inc.com, the Entrepreneur magazine, and has been featured in Forbes.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:22] How Bryan launched his branding agency.

    [05:45] DIscussion on employer branding and the philosophy of attracting the right people.

    [13:01] Roadmap in helping your client attract the right people.

    [18:02] What are the components of a good employer brand?

    [27:41] Bryan gives us key stories from his book, Give & Get Employer Branding.

    [30:36] What mistakes do companies make concerning employer branding?

    [37:31] How can recruiters partner with their client companies in achieving the objectives of employer branding?

    [43:00] Book recommendations and references on storytelling.

    [48:10] Employer branding case studies on small to medium-sized businesses.

    Repel the Many and Compel the Few - A Guide on Employer Branding

    Recruiters are ambassadors of their clients. Understanding the employer brand of the company they represent is crucial to attracting the right candidates. Effective employer branding is critical for attracting, engaging, and retaining top talent. It goes beyond just salary and benefits; it encompasses the company's values, culture, work environment, opportunities for growth, and overall employee experience.

    Contrary to the notion that the correct branding should attract as many candidates as possible, Bryan believes that doing it right should only compel a few, well-screened candidates. He said:

    “And it's interesting still in a recent survey, 70% of employer brand leaders still cite an increase in volume of applicants and traffic to their career site as a success metric when delivering an employer brand. I've never met a TA leader, a talent attraction leader who just wants more applicants, more noise, more admin, and more work to get to the people who are ideally matched.”

    Bryan shared case studies of corporations and small-medium businesses they worked with and how the right employer branding worked well to find the right people. Bryan pretty much defined the right approach to branding when he said “The idea is, if you're confident and clear enough to know your culture and what it takes to drive the organization forward, and you also can answer some fundamental questions of not just why people join, but why they stay, then you can craft a give and get proposition which is a two-way value exchange of not just what you stand to get as an employer but actually what you're willing to give in return candidates and employees alike can make very informed career decisions as to whether it's an ideal match.”

    How to Strategize a Good Employer Brand

    Bryan shared the mistakes companies make when envisioning and strategizing their employer brand. He also shared vital pointers and elements to consider in designing and marketing effective talent branding. It leads to creating a communication framework, which should include the following:

    Research - the goal is to look for something authentic enough for employees to try on and recognize their personal experience in the messaging that you will put out.

    Ask the right questions - organizations need to ask the right questions and get the right information to create a messaging that makes sense for them while compelling a segment of the talent audience that they are targeting.

    Messaging - Bryan described it clearly: get a 360 view and design the messaging to touch a very tangible bridge between the reality of today and the aspiration of tomorrow.

    Brand Essence - just like Nike’s “Just Do It” campaign, a clear brand essence needs to start a conversation where people can look at the sentiment of what you are saying and be intrigued or make an interpretation that can create an affinity with the audience.

    Bryan also discussed the importance of storytelling. He mentioned that this is part of what makes their company successful and also shared books and references that you can look into if you plan to begin engaging in this skill.

    How Can Recruiters Promote Their Client’s Employer Brand?

    How can recruiters partner with their client companies in achieving the objectives of employer branding? I was interested in picking Bryan’s brains on this question and he was able to give insightful advice which is to focus on creating a compelling story structure.

    “The formula is this: empathy, curiosity, surprise, insight, and action,” Bryan said. This approach to creating a story structure he shared is interesting as it is backed up by psychology.

    This is how he explained it: “Empathy is an emotional immediate connection to the organization, what they're trying to do, and the purpose and vision of the organization. Curiosity is something that differentiates you from everybody else and gets people to lean in. So there's an emotional connection and now we're leaning in. Surprise is here's three things that you didn't know. You weren't expecting this. So what we're doing is we're playing with, we're opening the right side of the mind now, the right side of the brain, such that you're now ready to receive facts and information, insights and specific that you can deliver about the role. So we've talked about the company, maybe there's curiosity about the team and the specific objectives in that team, then insight around the specific role, and then we make a call to action. Usually, the call to action ties everything together from a purpose perspective. And if you walk through that formula, it's incredibly powerful if you have a proposition that's compelling and true that plays on all of the strengths that we've talked about.”

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Bryan Adams Bio and Contact Info

    Bryan is the CEO and founder of Ph.Creative, recognized as one of the leading employer brand agencies in the world with clients such as Apple, American Airlines, and Entain. Bryan is also a bestselling author, podcaster, creative strategist, and specialist speaker.

    Bryan has interviewed over 50 of the world's greatest storytellers including Seth Godin, Gary Vaynerchuk, and Robert McKee to strengthen knowledge and fuel a passion for what it means to effectively move people with language.



    He is considered a prominent employer brand thought leader and his creative, unconventional, and even controversial methodologies are said to regularly change the way people think about employer branding and EVP.

    Bryan on LinkedIn

    Ph.Creative website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Give & Get Employer Branding: Repel the Many and Compel the Few with Impact, Purpose and Belonging, by Bryan Adams

    The Hero’s Journey by Joseph Campbell

    Winning the Story Wars: Why Those Who Tell (and Live) the Best Stories Will Rule the Future, by Jonah Sachs

    Guerilla Marketing: Easy and Inexpensive Strategies for Making Big Profits from Your Small Business, by Jay Levinson

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Are you familiar with the term “ 4.0 Leaders”? If you are, then you understand the value of hiring such leaders in whichever niche you serve, especially in this age of the industrial revolution through artificial intelligence.

    I am excited to share this episode as we have a returning guest, the Rogue Recruiter, David Perry. We recorded this episode on his birthday. And you know that it will be an episode packed with exceptional expertise and behind-the-scenes stories from 35 years in executive recruitment.

    David and I touched upon relevant topics such as building strategic, long-term client relationships and the art of placing the right candidates within a company's culture. We also covered how their project, workinsight.io, can change the current hiring landscape. Lastly, David shared his insight on what recruitment will look like and why hiring 4.0 leaders is a critical role of recruiters.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:09] Pool Table Analogy - David reveals the strategy in his 35-year career in executive recruitment.

    [08:02] Pointers on pre-closing deals and establishing long-term client relationships.

    [19:22] “Executive Recruiting for Dummies” - Why David writes the questions and runs the candidate interview with their clients.

    [26:06] Educating your clients on the cost of a bad hire while quantifying your added value to their organization.

    [29:00] Be inspired and don’t give up: David shares his story about his early struggles in his recruitment career.

    [32:24] What is Workinsight.io and how can it be a game changer as a matching platform for candidates and employers?

    [52:18] Teaser on David’s new book - “Revolutions Need Leaders”

    [1:00:05] David shares why they send a 27-page proposal to their clients.

    [1:07:00] Book recommendations from David and why he never stops learning from others.

    Strategize Your Recruitment Like a Pool Master

    Before we recorded this episode, he had recently closed around 750K in fees. I wanted to get his insights on how he can consistently deliver in the industry for 35 years.

    If you are familiar with the game of pool or billiards, you will relate to David’s analogy about his strategies that keep him at the top of his game. He describes his approach, “You play pool, right? Most people and most recruiters are usually good for sinking a shot. Maybe a second one, okay, rarely a third one, yep. Rarely can someone clean the table. So this is how we think about search. We get a lot of inquiries to do work for companies… That's like playing pool. Before we do a deal we want to look down the table and go, okay, what's the next ball, what's the next ball, what's the next ball? And oftentimes we won't take a search because we can't see the next one.“

    David elaborated on the following techniques:

    Focusing on client relationships, investing time to understand their culture and what fits in their organization. Doing so can make placing three people with one company easier than three people with three different companies.

    How to pre-close a deal through an intake call with the client via Zoom call that will lead to a face-to-face discussion.

    Running the interview questions to the candidates, with the clients on the side.

    Like me, you will admire David’s tenure and expertise and how he delivers his service to his clients.

    Democratizing the Job Search Process

    David and I discussed their exciting website project: workinsight.io. Work Insight is a recruiting platform designed to be candidate-centric by allowing them to have a level of anonymity. The approach is inspired by dating sites, like Bumble or Tinder. The goal of the platform is to democratize recruitment - “This is designed to help people get the right role. That's why it's free. It's free for recruiters to use and post. It's free for job hunters to come and find jobs and post credentials. So we're trying to democratize the hiring that way. This way, smaller companies who've got a great idea can find people and do it themselves At the same time.”

    There are at least two job search frustrations that the platform can solve:

    Shortening the job search process: In the US, Davide mentioned that the average job search time is 38 weeks. Workinsight.io can enable a continuous opportunity flow, which will force employers to “be smarter and fairer with the candidates that they have, because now, all of a sudden, the whole market is fluid.”

    Solving the “hired for skill, fired for fit” dilemma: As David mentioned, “We've known for four decades hired for skill, fired for fit. If we know this doesn't work and we know that the turnover rate stays at a steady 24%, why don't we fix that?” The platform has an upcoming feature that matches candidates to companies based on cultural fit, aiming to address the high turnover rates caused by mismatches in company culture. This service is available for English-speaking individuals across various roles, industries, and locations.

    Having a Glimpse to the Future of Recruiting

    I was also fortunate to get a teaser of David’s new book “Revolutions Need Leaders” which addresses these revolutionary changes in recruitment and provides insight into the High Definition of Recruiting (HDR) methodology. David touched upon the impact of leaders like Sam Altman, whose leadership inspired loyalty and action from employees at OpenAI, exemplifying the power of what we term "4.0 leaders." These leaders focus on team success rather than individual achievements and are not easily found through traditional recruitment methods. We discuss strategies for identifying and engaging these elusive candidates, including using LinkedIn effectively for signaling and vetting prospects.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    David Perry Bio and Contact Info

    David is a seasoned search professional and has completed more than 1500 projects and negotiated more than $400 million in salaries. He is a bestselling author and his books have been translated into French, Hungarian, Vietnamese, and Chinese.

    David is a student of leadership and its effect on organizations ranging from private equity ventures to global technology corporations. David has built an extensive personal network of leading CEOs as well as up-and-coming future executives, permitting him to find the most qualified candidates to grow a company and increase stakeholder value. PMI’s Inside-Out Approach™ methodology allows clients to rapidly assess critical human qualities, track record, and leadership experience.

    David is frequently quoted on trends and issues regarding executive search, recruiting, and HR in leading business publications including Daily Commercial News, The Wall Street Journal, Canadian Business, EETimes, BOMA Monthly, and HR Today, and appears regularly as an executive search and labor market analyst for CBC News World and CTV Television.

    As HR Policy Advisor of the Canadian Advanced Technology Alliance (CATA), David has developed an extensive knowledge of leadership, innovation, and technology – like SMART Buildings. This ever-evolving expertise keeps him at the pulse of the most innovative and successful leaders. David recently served two terms on the board of Women in Communications and Technology. David is the past Chair of the Canadian Technology Human Resources Board and a board member of the Software Human Resource Council. He was chair/vice chair of South Hull Elementary School for fourteen years.

    David graduated from McGill University in 1982 with a Bachelor of Arts degree in economics and industrial relations. As well, David is also a Commissioned Officer in the Canadian Reserve, where he graduated top in his class and was awarded the Sword of Honor by Brigadier General JB Dabros. He recently received the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal.

    David on LinkedIn

    David on X (Twitter) @RougeRecruter

    Perry-Marterl International website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Read the First Chapter of “Revolutions Need Leaders”

    Workinsight IO website link

    Executive Recruiting For Dummies - a book by David Perry and Mark Haluska

    The Win Without Pitching Manifesto

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#26 Canada Day Special: How the Rogue Recruiter Closed 1100 Searches, with David Perry

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • In the fast-paced world of recruitment, you’re under constant pressure to deliver results for your clients and achieve sales targets. So what’s the secret to maintaining peak performance without burning out?

    In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, our special guest, Scott Eastin, provides a fresh perspective on achieving sustainable, long-lasting success in recruitment. Drawing from his own successful career, having navigating many ups and downs, Scott emphasizes the pivotal relationship between prioritizing health and recruitment success.

    Scott is the Director of Eastin IT Security. Over the last 13 years established himself as a leading Microsoft Security consultant. He’s worked with major organizations such as Coca-Cola, American Express as well as state and local governments. For the last 5 years, he’s built an IT consulting and staffing firm winning high-value, long-term projects that generate recurring revenue.

    In this episode, Scott unpacks his remarkable transition from being a software developer to becoming a successful recruiter. He divulges his four cornerstone strategies for business development. Most importantly, emphasizes why prioritizing physical health is a non-negotiable component in maintaining his overall productivity.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:25] Scott’s journey from being a software developer to a successful recruiter.

    [10:14] Insights on challenges when transitioning to a career in recruiting.

    [14:47] Sharing a story of how embracing an idea that was not done became a game-changer.

    [24:00] Scott’s Top 4 Business Development strategies

    [30:35] Hosting networking events - an effective way to engage with your community.

    [36:15] Comparison of consulting practice versus permanent direct hire models in the tech space.

    [44:36] Managing cash flow challenges in a consulting and IT staffing business.

    [54:40] Mindfulness, health and well-being.

    The Advantages of a Consulting Business in the IT Space

    Is it easier to manage an IT consulting business model versus a permanent direct hire practice? For Scott, having a consulting business model works well for him for the following reasons:

    Trusted Independent Contractors - He has already established a network of reliable independent contractors, which makes it easy to take in projects from his clients.

    Long-term Contracts - Because of quality service delivery, he can secure long-term contracts that assure him six-digit revenues at the beginning of the year.

    If you are running an executive search firm or permanent hire practice, you might want to consider exploring the option of a consulting or contract service as an additional revenue stream. Scott believes that this is a great time for such a business model:

    “Quite frankly, if you look at the statistics that are coming out now, more and more people are interested in contracting and independent consulting work. I know I was reading an article from the staffing industry where I think they said literally 38% of the U.S. workforce has done some type of gig work.”

    Of course, there are also challenges in this type of business model, such as cash flow management - sometimes you would have to pay your contractors before the client even pays you. Scott shared how he solves this. He also elaborated on his approach to business development.

    The 4 Cornerstones of Scott’s Business Development Strategy

    Scott describes himself as a “reluctant salesman.” Before becoming a recruitment business owner, he had this preconceived notion about salespeople: “Selling is somewhat, maybe a dirty word for some people in the technical industry.”

    Part of his journey is getting over that mindset. Scott’s primary principle regarding selling and business development is “Great service, great people, and great value.” He shared four key pointers about this topic and elaborated on how this helps him to get continued repeat businesses:

    Referrals - Scott’s mantra of great service, great people, and great value is the foundation of providing excellent services consistently. This leads to referrals and repeat businesses across his market and industry.

    LinkedIn Visibility - Scott consistently posts content and videos on LinkedIn.

    BDR - Scott hired an experienced Business Development Representative part-time on a contract basis to make cold calls and set up sales appointments for him.

    Hosting meet-up events - this is something that Scott picked up from one of our guests in a previous episode, Steven Li, and he is thankful that he applied this approach.

    Mindfulness, Health, and Well-Being

    Being a one-man shop is not easy and can be stressful. Scott shared how he manages stress by prioritizing his health and consistently implementing healthy habits.

    “I learned my lesson over the years where when I did not take my fitness or health very seriously, I was not at my best.”

    Scott does P90X training, distance running, and regular functional gym sessions. As a recruiter or business owner, prioritizing health is not only essential for your well-being, but it also contributes to a more productive, positive, and sustainable work environment. Scott shared, “I'm just so much stronger, so much fitter. And so it's one of those where it's very cliche to say health is your first wealth, but you know, no matter how much success you've got, if you don't have your health, it's not worth anything.”

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Scott Eastin Bio and Contact Info

    Scott Eastin was a leading Microsoft security consultant for the last thirteen years. Scott has worked with major organizations including Coca-Cola, American Express, and numerous other global firms as well as state and local governments.

    Over the last five years, Scott has moved away from development and now spends most of his day helping the Microsoft business partner community find top-tier independent Azure consultants. Scott’s network of Azure security consultants spans North America along with world-class talent from Central Europe.

    Scott resides in Decatur, GA with his wife, two dogs, and two teenagers who he hopes will move out once they graduate.

    Scott on LinkedIn

    Eastin IT Security website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Steven Li on LinkedIn

    Plamen Ivanoff on LinkedIn

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#175 How to Build Trust and Relationships at Scale by Hosting Meet-up Events, with Steven Li

    TRR#43 How to Transition From Contingency CV Supplier to Consultative Retained Recruiter, with Plamen Ivanoff

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • The recruitment process is inherently human-centric, involving evaluating soft skills, cultural fit, and personal interactions. While AI can streamline specific tasks, it may struggle to assess these qualitative aspects effectively. As a recruitment business owner, how do you marry automation and artificial intelligence with a personal human touch?

    My special guest, Christina Stroud, shares her insights and perspective about this subject. She has a unique approach to engaging with her clients and candidates while leveraging automation with a personalized human touch.

    Christina is the founder and CEO of Group928. She’s a seasoned Human Resources professional with over 30 years of experience specializing in start-ups, acquisitions, and exits in private equity environments. The company has grown by 400% in just three short years from $125,000 in the first year to over $500,000 in 2023. This showcases her ability to build a client base from scratch, and design and implement sales and marketing strategies while continuing to exceed her client’s expectations.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:57] Chrstina’s Transition from an HR professional to a recruitment business owner. Insights on how her HR experience played a role in her current success.

    [07:49] Nobody said it was easy - overcoming a challenging first year of entrepreneurial leap.

    [12:41] Growing the company to 400% - discussing two critical success factors.

    [18:18] The importance of stepping out of your comfort zone

    [28:13] Leveraging AI & automation while applying a personal touch.

    [40:33] Launching her podcast and engaging with thought leaders.

    [48:01] The most significant challenges that Christina had to navigate

    [58:49] What is next for Christina and Group 928?

    An Entrepreneurial Leap is No Walk in the Park, But Undeniably Achievable

    For many reasons, shifting from a recruiter to a business owner can be difficult. The risk and uncertainty, working long hours, and lack of security and benefits can deter many from the entrepreneurship journey. Overcoming these roadblocks is achievable - and Christina proved it is. This is how she described the first year of her entrepreneurial journey:

    “It was hard. I, you know, that first year, it was hard for me emotionally. I had never stepped away from a regular paycheck. And so to go into owning my own business, not having a steady income or a check that gets directly deposited every other Friday was very nerve-wracking for me… It hurt my ego a little bit when I went two months without getting, uh, a paycheck, but then once I got my company started, uh, I was glad that I did and it made sense, but that transition, uh, is very hard for a lot of people and it was also hard because I had never done any type of sales or marketing or bringing in new clients.”

    It was not a walk in the park, but Christina’s mindset and belief system helped her figure things out and pull things together. She revealed two critical factors that significantly contributed to her success.

    Christina’s Two Critical Success Factors

    In three years, Christina grew her company by 400% from $125,000 in the first year to over $500,000 in 2023. This is an astonishing achievement, as companies usually plateau after reaching their first six digits. Christian shared two critical success factors:

    Getting out of her comfort zone: “I had to take every little thing that needed to be done as a challenge. I did all the work myself. I was, you know, doing sourcing and interviewing and all the emails and communication. And that taught me a lot of new skills and things that I had to try and push myself to do that I hadn't done in a very, very long time”. Christina shared how she had to learn technology and AI, start her podcast, and other new skills.

    Leveraging automation for sales and marketing - this was also not easy for Christina because technology is also not her cup of tea. “Those people who know me know I have a technology dark cloud that follows me. It is a struggle wherever I go for whatever reason. And so to think that I would be using this as one of my main tools to try and find clients and at least start that initial relationship was very daunting.”

    Many can relate to the subject of automation and AI as it is a hot topic when it comes to balancing it with personalization and ingraining a human touch. Christina shares her best practices.

    Utilizing AI and Automation with a Personalized Approach

    Christina’s approach to personalization is her unique value proposition. She shared her process:

    Research “And so when I went into my own business, I knew that's what I had specific target companies that I knew I wanted to work with. I had researched them. I had figured out where they were location-wise, and what the size of the company was. I started researching the CEOs and the head of HR and make sure they had the type of career and background of people that would be interested in working with recruiters whom they had a relationship with”

    Personalized Communication “My communications were very personal. It wasn't, hey, here's what we do, here's what we can offer you, here's how I'm gonna change your life. It was a lot more of, here's what my other clients are seeing. You know, here's what I know about the market if it makes sense for us to have those conversations help you in the future, that would be great”

    Going above and beyond “We've also done gifts. So we went kind of old school. Remember at Christmas you used to get lots of plates of cookies and treats and stuff from vendors or at least I know HR folks do. I used to have a desk full of boxes of things from folks who wanted to work with our company. So now as a recruiter, I do that as well, but I don't do it at Christmas time.”

    Leveraging AI and automation is indeed an effective way to market and engage with clients if infused with a personal human touch.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Christina Stroud and Contact Info

    Christina is the Owner and Co-Founder of Group928. She started her career at BMW Manufacturing where she progressed through multiple leadership positions across the Human Resources organization throughout her 14-year tenure with the company. The scope of her BMW experience spans US and International operations and includes positions in Recruiting, HR Operations, Change Management, and work as an HR Business Partner. Christina’s first exposure to a start-up business was with Venture Capital-backed Proterra, a high-growth green-industry manufacturer of vehicle power and charging solutions. At Proterra, Christina built and led the HR team and hired and developed the company's Executive team. From Proterra, Christina joined Day & Zimmerman, a $2.4 billion family-owned global construction company. While there she led an HR function responsible for four business units and instilled focus on making people strategy a competitive business advantage. Christina was recruited to Private Equity-owned Multi-Pack Solutions, a contract packaging company for medical devices, as head of the national Human Resources function. In 2017 Christina joined the 35-person executive recruiting firm Westport Intl as a Managing Director, the last position she held before co-founding Group928.

    Christina holds a bachelor's degree in Financial Management from the College of Business & Behavioral Science at Clemson University and a master's degree in Human Resources from Clemson University. She lives with her family just outside of Greenville, SC.

    Christina on LinkedIn

    Group 928 website link

    Manufacturing 365 podcast link



    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • With over a million dollars billed consecutively for the last two years, and career billings surpassing $6.6 million, Nate Zimmerman is a Senior Partner and Executive Recruiter at High Country Private Equity Search, based in Denver.

    In this episode, Nate shares his journey from breaking into recruitment by cold-calling the firm owner to becoming the youngest Partner in the firm’s history. He breaks down the key milestones along the way from hitting $400K, to breaking 7-figures, to building a team.

    Nate has distinguished himself in the competitive world of recruiting with his relentless focus on putting the relationship before the transaction. You’ll discover the work ethic, strategy, and mindset required to reach $1M in annual billings.



    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:44] How Nate’s recruitment career began with a cold call.

    [09:15] Why Nate chose to specialize in Private Equity Executive Search.

    [10:33] Putting in the work early and laying the groundwork for future success.

    [15:06] Nate’s journey to becoming the youngest partner at High Country Private Equity Search.

    [22:20] Discussion on Nate’s approach to MPC Marketing.

    [26:33] Billing a million dollars for the first time.

    [35:54] Nate’s recruitment philosophy: “relationship before transaction.”

    [41:33] How Nate developed market mastery in his chosen niche

    [49:51] Juggling multiple priorities as a billing manager

    [55:24] Overcoming setbacks - what Nate learned from missing his billing goal in 2023.

    Laying the Groundwork for Future Success

    Nate’s success can be attributed to his work ethic and belief in investing time and effort to develop his skills. “Knowing the underlying fundamentals, that is what I focused on initially,” explained Nate. “How to recruit people, how to interview people, how to take a job order, how to get a job order. Those things you got to put in the time and effort.”

    A major differentiator that Nate shared is how he makes the most of his time - “On the weekends, spend two to three hours, Saturday and Sunday, every weekend during the first couple of years into this industry doing that really basic research. It's contributing long-term to your market mastery. Every hour that you are spending… it's all going to pay dividends.”

    He shared his typical day looking at job boards. He emphasized the importance of quality , leading to talk about his MPC and targeted marketing strategies. He also elaborated on his thought process and what is going on in his mind as he achieve his milestones. The important takeaways from this part of our conversation are the value of discipline, consistency, and having a clear vision to align your habits and processes in achieving your goals.

    Billing A Million Dollars for the First Time

    One of Nate’s significant milestones is when he billed a million dollars for the first time. I had to probe for what he did differently on top of his discipline in planning, allotting extra time to research, conducting weekly internal training, and so on. He successfully laid down his groundwork for success and meeting the seven-digit billing is an astonishing achievement.

    Here is what Nate had to say: “You always have to figure out, okay, who's going to be my honeypot next year? And if it's the same client as your best client multiple years in a row, I can assure you that's not going to continue, right? The fees stop coming. So that was a big thing. And frankly, a lot of that did come through referrals. I was very fortunate, but I've gotten to a point now where I'm realizing that, hey, that luck, that it's not forever. So you're gonna have to go out and make that luck next year. Go get that next big client. Don't wait for one of your clients that you're doing such a great job for. You deserve those referrals, but that doesn't mean they're gonna come.”

    Deep-diving on this topic further, Nate also shared several important key factors to help recruiters and recruitment business owners meet their billing goals:

    Focusing on relationships first before doing transactions. Nate shared why he puts effort into meeting his clients face-to-face.

    Finding the best candidates and “living inside their heads”. For Nate, it means “to understand, their motivations, their family, you know, where they wanna be in five years. That's always the most important question. I tell candidates, look, you know, it's my job to give you an option and then it's your job to decide.”

    Critical Learnings from 2023

    It may sound like Nate has the Midas touch, where he turns everything he touches into gold. On the contrary, it was never a walk in the park. Nate even shared why they are currently at an inflection point this year because of a setback in terms of expected versus actual revenue. So I wanted to hear the learnings from his perspective that he is willing to share for the benefit of our listeners. Nate shared that even if the market is unpredictable and can be difficult, we should focus on the things we can control. He mentioned a few action items that they will implement, such as leveraging technology, doing roadshows, and setting up email campaigns.

    I admire Nate’s resilience this is a recurring topic in our coaching calls. Focusing on things you can control and influence is one of the many ways to make your recruitment business recession and future-proof.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Nate Zimmerman Bio and Contact Info



    Nate specializes in finding ultra-high-performing talent for private equity firms, real estate investment firms, asset managers, and family offices. Nate believes it’s fundamentally valuable, regardless of the search, to focus always on the relationship before the transaction. First and foremost, his mission is to deliver excellence to his clients and candidates and purposefully build long-term relationships that produce value for years.

    Nate on LinkedIn

    High Country Search Group website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Pinnacle Society website link

    Atomic Habits by James Clear

    Interseller

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#59 How to Build a Multi-Million Dollar Team of Recruitment Rockstars, with Monte Merz

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • This episode is not only special but also exceptional! We will not only be hearing from one or two guests, but you will also hear a panel interview featuring three special guests. Join me in this conversation with Joe Rice, Annie Colabella, and Matt Walsh. If these names ring a bell, it's because all three have graced our podcast as guests before and are esteemed members of the Pinnacle Society.

    You will hear our discussions that will reveal the DNA of a million-dollar biller and key strategies that have contributed to their success, emphasizing the significance of delegation, consistency, and surrounding oneself with high-performing individuals.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:10] Panelists introduction.

    [09:15] The DNA of a Million-Dollar Biller.

    [23:13] Practices and activities that will level up your team’s performance.

    [35:00] Investing in marketing while growing your business.

    [43:10] Andrea’s advice on how to increase your billings over time.

    [49:06] Why do you do what you do? - the WHYs of top billers.

    [55:30] Best practices on business development.

    The DNA of a Million-Dollar Biller

    Our panelists are Pinnacle Society members because they are industry leaders. Each of them was invited to this podcast and they did not fail to share their thought processes that made them million-dollar billers. In the webinar, they discussed crucial success factors that many aspiring recruiters and owners of recruitment businesses can glean valuable insights from. I asked them this question: What are two or three specific things you would attribute your success to that enable you to consistently produce at that level?

    Matt shared key elements: the power of delegation and strategies in growing his team. He invested in his marketing and hired marketing persons early on in the growth of his boutique firm. The other thing is he was able to set up his business so that the billers are only focused on the things that are revenue generating while a lot of the administration - the sourcing, and the scheduling of interviews is done for them.

    Joe also revealed what makes him and his team great: accountability, resilience, the right mindset, and always looking for ways to improve. He told the story of how they were humbled in 2020 and why it is important to keep on going. Joe believes that leveraging technology can be a game-changer in maximizing productivity and revenue. He also shared the tech stack they are using in their business process.

    Annie on the other hand, revealed that knowing when to say no is critical to business success. “Saying no to opportunities and walking away from searches when you know that they're impossible to fill or the client is just being unreasonable in terms of what they're looking for, or if they're just searches where you're up against multiple agencies.” She then shared innovative approaches to creative fee structures to give more options to their clients. Overall, you will find that their solution-oriented mindset is what makes them successful.

    Business Development Best Practices

    In this webinar, a lot of viewers were throwing questions related to business development and what specific tactics each of the panelists was using. It does make sense to ask that question, after all, business development strategies contribute greatly to client engagement and revenue. Our panelists generously shared what they do.

    For Annie, old-school MPC (most placeable candidate) marketing has been a reliable strategy. On top of cold calls and emails, they embed video instructions for the candidates. What differentiates them is how they present their MPCs to the market. This is how Annie puts it, “Basically, in the industry that I'm in, there are new fund launches and funds that are raising assets and just, you know, mindfully tracking them, knowing that they may have new headcount due to new assets under management. “

    Matt elaborated on their “three-bucket” strategy: using inbound leads, MPC marketing, and leveraging references. On the references part, Matt said something that I am sure will resonate with most recruiters and business owners: “I feel like recruiters so often like, oh, I don't want to do references and that's just such a time waste and they should be doing the references. But there is so much gold there. I mean, think about it. You are talking to the person who reports to the person you're trying to place like it's gold. Were they good, or were they better? Who else do you know? And then so references and BD through recruiting are the ones in the middle for the now, it's so cool and that's one of the strategies we're using I love it Fantastic BD through recruiting.”

    Joe then shares their “two-purpose approach.” To summarize, Joe defines it this way: “The two-purpose approach is when you are reaching out to a candidate to recruit them for a job, but they also hire candidates that you might be able to place, and so we might say, Mark, I'm reaching out to you for two reasons.”

    Which of these three do you think would work best for your recruitment business?

    Why Do You Do What You Do? - the WHYs of top billers.

    Understanding the WHY behind the success of our guests is important because it provides valuable insights into the principles, motivations, and strategies that contribute to their achievements. So I wanted to know why they do what they do.

    For Matt, it is about impacting people’s lives. “When you talk about it, in changing lives which we're doing for me, it's not just changing a candidate's life by getting them a new job, or changing a client's life by getting them an amazing executive team so now they can focus on their kids. It's also our internal employees. We've had folks that they're running their firm.”

    For Annie, it is her passion to love what she does. “I feel like just having a passion for being an executive recruitment and the matchmaking that we do has always been something I'm so grateful that I found very early on in my career. I am very good at what I do. I love being able to go to work every day knowing that I am doing something that I'm very skilled at, as well as impacting the people around me.”

    I also admire Joe’s answer to the question: “I think I've learned to be grateful for this business and for everything that I've been blessed with... For me, it goes into the parable of the talent. We've all been given a set of talents and I believe that we're called to maximize those talents for good. “

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Andrea (Annie) Colabella Bio and Contact Info

    Annie is a Johns Hopkins alumnus with bachelor’s and master’s degrees. She has been recruiting since 2005, initially across all industries, and over the past decade with a focus on the investment management space. Her excellence in the industry is highlighted through her admittance into The Pinnacle Society, an influential group of industry-leading recruiters. She started her firebrand agency, Cardea Group, in 2009 focused on assisting private equity firms, hedge funds, venture capital funds, family offices, and traditional asset managers in staffing their non-investment functions. Andrea is also an active board member of several not-for-profits.

    Annie on LinkedIn

    The Cardea Group website link

    Joe Rice Bio and Contact Info

    Joe is a Managing Partner and Founder of Joseph David International (JDI), twice recognized by Forbes as one of the best executive recruiting firms in America. He is also a partner in MogulRecruiter, a technology platform that provides recruiting, booking, and talent solutions for service leaders. His recruiting career started in 2005 with Snelling Hospitality with a specialty in executive search, consulting, talent acquisition, and organizational leadership.

    Joe on LinkedIn

    Joseph David International (JDI) website link

    Matt Walsh Bio and Contact Info

    Matt Walsh is the CEO, and Founder of Blue Signal, a multimillion-dollar, award-winning, Phoenix-based Recruitment Agency specializing in IT, IoT, Telecom, Wireless, Supply Chain, Food Production, Manufacturing, Healthcare, Accounting and finance, HR, and Emerging Tech.

    Matt has over 15 years of experience in recruitment. Matt was born and raised in a small farm community in Illinois. He received his bachelor’s degree from Illinois State University and landed a job at Management Recruiters International in Chicago. At MRI, he won several awards. Matt left MRI in 2010 to consult and started Blue Signal in 2012.

    Matt on LinkedIn

    Blue Signal website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Danny Cahill on LinkedIn

    Allan Fisher on LinkedIn

    Pinnacle Society

    We-Connect

    Interseller

    SourceWhale

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#76 Recruitment Marketing: How to Amplify Your Sales with Effective Marketing, with Matt Walsh

    TRR#65 How to Build (or Rebuild) Your Recruitment Firm to 7-Figures From Scratch, with Joe Rice

    TRR#167 3 Simple Steps to Increase Your Billings from 6 to 7-Figures, with Andrea Colabella

    TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • This episode celebrates the 200th episode of the Resilient Recruits Podcast with special guest, founder of Recruitment Coach, Mark Whitby.

    Mark is the founder of Recruitment Coach and one of the world's leading coaches for the global recruitment industry. Since 2001, he has trained over 10,000 recruiters in 34 countries. He's helped countless recruiters double or triple their billings in just 6-12 months, and business owners grow their companies 10x.

    Mark shares his journey into recruitment, starting with a failed business venture that led him to discover his passion for sales. He then talks about his first job in recruitment and the hunger and drive that propelled him to success. Mark also reflects on the past four years of the podcast and the valuable insights he has gained from interviewing over 100 successful recruitment professionals.

    Having worked closely with hundreds of recruiting, staffing, and search firms, Mark has unique insight into how the top-producing recruiters and fastest-growing companies operate.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:20] What led Mark to pursue a career in recruitment?

    [06:20] How hiring a professional coach impacted Mark’s performance.

    [14:01] The value of training when scaling your recruitment business - hear training solutions for growing teams.

    [17:44] Mark transitioned from a recruiter to a recruitment coach.

    [19:41] What has changed in the recruitment industry in the 22 years Mark has been coaching?

    [25:24] Key challenges and lessons that Mark experienced over the years.

    [38:17] Celebrating 200 episodes - What motivated Mark to start the Resilient Recruiter podcast?

    [44:47] What is Mark most proud of in his entrepreneurial career?

    Hiring a Professional Coach Became a Game Changer

    Mark told the story of how he started his own business at the young age of 19. Without any prior experience, it ended up failing but it also led him to discover his love for sales which eventually directed him to become a recruiter.

    His experience in his first recruitment job made him realize a critical challenge in the recruitment industry at that time: “So the first company I joined there was no training. It was like, or very little. There was a little bit of shadowing of people and like, but pretty much you just like you're in the bullpen and you had to sink or swim and just figure it out by looking at what other people were doing and copying them. But unfortunately, a lot of the people around me weren't very good or didn't know what they were doing either.”

    Mark was then headhunted to join a larger recruitment firm of around 200 recruiters. Even though Mark was meeting his target and was in the middle of the leaderboard, he felt that he could still do way more. Mark hired a brilliant coach and this was a game-changer for Mark.

    “He helped me double my billings in about 90 days and my manager was like what the heck is going on? So that was such a transformative experience that it kind of planted the seed later for me to decide to become a coach myself.”

    Mark's dual role as a recruiter and coachee laid the groundwork for discovering the secret sauce for aiding recruiters and business owners. For those venturing into recruitment business ownership, Mark's narrative is valuable in recognizing the pivotal role of training and coaching in the growth and scaling of your business.

    Reflections on the Evolving Landscape of the Recruitment Industry Across Mark’s 22-Year Coaching Tenure

    Mark also shared how the landscape of recruitment has changed over the last couple of decades that he has been recruiting. He remembers the day their key focus was cold calling, networking, and getting referrals. He also recalled his learnings when he lost 80% of his revenue overnight during the 2008-09 recession.

    Mark emphasized how embracing digital marketing became a pivotal move, leading to increased success post-recession. This also transitioned his key focus areas for training. As Mark said, “Originally when I was training people, it was how to self-retain, search, how to do business development, how to negotiate, you know how to close offers, all that kind of stuff right. And suddenly people could see what I was doing with marketing, with branding, with email marketing, and they're like, hey, could you help us to do that, because that looks like the way forward, right?”

    This recollection underscores the importance of adapting to changing circumstances and highlights the importance of continuous learning and development.

    Key Challenges and Lessons Learned

    Mark also discussed the key challenges and lessons he had to go through over the years. He outlined several critical topics that resonate well with a lot of the listeners. Here are some takeaways:

    The value of seeking mentors and role models.

    The importance of digital marketing for solo recruiters and entrepreneurs.

    Realizing that you cannot do everything by yourself - hire a team of virtual assistants.

    Overcome the fear of hiring a full-time employee or partner to complement.

    Appreciating the concept of “One plus one equals three.”

    Mark then recalled how he started this podcast four years ago. Leanne and Mark discussed how this has impacted their clients and other recruiters who have ventured out to start their recruitment firms.

    What are Mark’s proudest coaching moments throughout the years? “So what I'm most proud of is the results that our clients obtain. It's kind of comparable to, for our listeners, when you make a placement and you really have that impact and you change someone's life for the better both the candidate, of course, in a better opportunity, but then the client company also benefits from that talent that you've brought to them.

    So the equivalent for us is when we're working with a client and they achieve incredible results whether it's shifting to retained search, whether it's launching a podcast, whether it's hiring a virtual assistant, and then that being such a life-changing thing, game-changing, to free up all that time and be able to accelerate your billing. So I live for those success stories. When, at the beginning of every coaching call, we start out with wins and everyone needs to share a win, something they've made progress on, something they've achieved since we last saw them. That's my favorite part of the week is hearing those wins from our members.”

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • In this episode, we delve into the intricacies of managing a remote team, a topic significantly relevant in today’s era where flexibility and adaptability are critical to success.

    We are joined by Sam Brenner, owner of CRB Workforce, which is 100% remote. Sam and I discussed his strategies and actionable insights on how they build their high-performing culture in a remote setup. From leadership styles and collaborative check-ins to leveraging tech stack, you will hear Sam’s action points to thriving in the world of remote team management.

    Guided by his motto, "The harder you work, the luckier you get," Sam is living proof of how determination and ambition lead to incredible outcomes.

    Sam launched his recruitment agency in 2018 from his apartment. Since then the business has grown rapidly to a team of 16 recruiting technology and marketing people across multiple sectors.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:03] From Commercial Real Estate to Recruiting.

    [07:49] Sam shares his fears and challenges of launching his recruitment firm in 2018.

    [16:22] How to create strong relationships with long-term contractors and consultants.

    [22:51] Staying resilient in dealing with multiple setbacks.

    [27:13] Building a sustainable culture in a remote working environment.

    [38:46] Investing in systems and processes to enhance collaboration in a remote setup.

    [42:30] Sam reveals their daily practices and activities to keep everyone engaged remotely.

    [51:25] Discussion on core values and how they translate to performance and culture.

    [57:40] Navigating the 2023 recruitment market.

    Building Team Culture Remotely Through Collaboration Systems and Practices

    A common ground between me and Sam is that our businesses are operating 100% remotely. Managing a remote team can be challenging for some recruitment business owners, especially on the collaboration part. So Sam and I discussed their best practices on how they keep their team together, the systems they use, and the practices they do, in order to work collaboratively in a 100% remote setup.

    Leadership - Sam shared his leadership style that contributes to their culture and way of working. He emphasized the value of transparency - with him being an “open book.” He also elaborated on trust and the philosophy of “pushing your way in, don’t wait to be pulled in.”

    Collaborative Check-ins - Sam discussed their concept of Zoom check-ins for collaborative tasks and highlighted the value of investing in systems that promote communication and collaboration. We also talked about the importance of having clear agendas and keeping virtual meetings focused. Sam also shared their “Wednesday Walk Day” which well resonated with our team.

    Systems - Sam shared online platforms and applications that they use to collaborate such as Miro, Bullhorn, and Nectar.

    Core Values That Translate to a Culture of Performance

    Core values contribute to your recruitment firm's success as they cover your team’s culture and well-being, which translate to overall performance. With his team working 100% remotely, Sam believes that their core values play an important role in keeping their team together despite working in different time zones. He shared their organization’s core values:

    The Power of Attitude - “You know, just be in control and set your attitude, because it's one of the only things you can control.”

    Feedback - “Feedback is like a huge pillar for us, and so it's feedback, and it's giving effective feedback, taking feedback. So it's a two-way street, and that's one of the things that I lead with. I'm giving people feedback and I'm always asking for feedback, and so if someone sees something they don't like, they don't wallow in it.”

    Pressure - “I want people to face the pressure. I want people to run towards their legacy, like, not away from it. “

    As a recruitment business owner, having values aligned with your vision and mission statement can strengthen your team’s bond and guide your organization’s decision-making.

    Resilience in Launching His Business and Navigating the Future of Recruitment

    Sam and I also zoomed in on the challenges and struggles he had to overcome when launching his own business. He shared his transition from commercial real estate to recruitment, and how his strong sales background became a foundation for his success in recruiting. When he launched CRB in 2018, he had to endure a roller coaster of emotions and had to overcome his fear of failure. He also had to deal with a lawsuit that lasted for two and a half years. If you are a recruiter aspiring to build your own recruitment practice, you will be inspired by Sam’s early struggles as this led to his current success.

    We also talked about the 2023 market and how they are navigating this erratic recruitment market. We agreed that the most effective way to deal with it is to put ourselves in the best possible position to capture opportunities that will always be there. The only way to do that is just to keep doing the right things, day in and day out.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Sam Brenner Bio and Contact Info

    Guided by his motto, "The harder you work, the luckier you get," Sam Brenner is living proof of how determination and ambition lead to incredible outcomes. His business journey started back in 2018 as a humble operation in his apartment. Now, the Founder and CEO of CRB Workforce, a rapidly growing recruitment agency, he’s turned his company into a force to be reckoned with, spanning the US and beyond. From startups to industry giants, CRB has served so many incredible businesses.

    Sam has achieved remarkable success and earned a prominent —and well-deserved—place in the business world. With over 20 years of experience and a passion for creating opportunities to better other people’s lives.

    Sam on LinkedIn

    CRB website link

    CRB on LinkedIn



    People and Resources Mentioned

    Miro Board - Collaboration Tool

    Bullhorn

    Nectar

    Simon La Fosse on LinkedIn

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#116 How Treating People Well Delivers 30% Annual Revenue Growth for 15 Years, with Simon La Fosse

    TRR#47 How to Define Your Recruitment Company’s Culture, with Bretton Putter

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • The past couple of years have shown an astonishing development in generative AI. Artificial Intelligence emerges as a transformative force, reshaping the landscape of recruiting by introducing unprecedented efficiencies, data-driven insights, and innovative solutions that promise to revolutionize the way organizations discover, engage, and hire top talent.

    In this episode, we are in for a treat as one of the leading voices in AI and Data Science joins us to share unique perspectives and insights into the transformative effects of artificial intelligence on talent acquisition. Jon Krohn is a leading figure in the realm of artificial intelligence and machine learning. He’s the Co-Founder and Chief Data Scientist at Nebula.io, an intelligent Talent Acquisition platform.

    He authored the book Deep Learning Illustrated, an instant #1 bestseller that was translated into seven languages.

    He is also the host of SuperDataScience, the data science industry’s most listened-to podcast.

    Jon is renowned for his compelling lectures, which he offers at leading universities and conferences, as well as via his award-winning YouTube channel. He holds a PhD from Oxford and has been publishing on machine learning in prominent academic journals since 2010.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:11] Jon’s fascinating career milestones - from high-frequency trading and yoga to data science.

    [08:37] What led Jon into the world of talent acquisition?

    [17:10] Effectively applying generative AI into talent acquisition.

    [24:58] Generative AI’s other potential applications in automating the recruitment industry.

    [35:04] How close are we to getting generative AI to do excellent writing?

    [44:00] What makes Nebula’s methodology stand out from other AI platforms?

    [52:16] What will the next 3 - 5 years look like in terms of Generative AI applications to recruitment?

    [1:02:04] How AI platforms can elevate the human experience?

    Artificial Intelligence in Talent Acquisition

    Jon shared his journey transitioning from high-frequency trader to yoga instructor to data scientist and co-founder of AI-driven talent acquisition platform Nebula.io.

    He shared how this amazing platform leverages generative AI to help recruitment companies identify the best candidates in the least amount of time, which helps them to focus more on human connection in their workflow. This is how he explains it, “With nebula.io, you can type in ‘find me a data scientist in New York who specializes in machine learning,’ and we will take that small amount of natural language that you provided. We will apply the kinds of filters to the search automatically. So we'll apply a 50-mile radius around New York and we will generate some key information based on the small amount of information you provided.”

    It doesn’t stop there because the results will be already curated based on each individual’s publicly available data to display ranking, potential compensation, and diversity. Their platform can also generate messages with information about the role, information about the candidate, and potentially information about the recruitment firm.

    Jon explains that in the end, “You are making the final decision on whether a candidate is appropriate or not, but we're making the sourcing and messaging of candidates, the understanding of your searches and your candidates, as well as the engagement with your candidates, as simple and automated as possible so that you can focus, so the recruiters can focus on building relationships as opposed to just, you know, trying to find people and type out the messages.”

    This is indeed phenomenal! Imagine what the future of recruitment will look like not only for recruiters but also for clients and candidates. In the long run, this can only enhance the end-to-end recruitment process experience across all stakeholders.

    Artificial Intelligence in Recruitment Automation

    Jon also described other ways Generative AI can impact the recruiter’s side of doing things. He mentioned several platforms that can automate interview scheduling and enhance the way recruiters can search their own databases. He mentioned how their semantic search feature can generate 10x more candidates than other platforms utilizing boolean search. He also mentioned a patented technology enabling candidate matching without incorporating historical biases against underrepresented groups. Of course, Jon and I discussed how close we are to having generative AI do very good writing.

    Advancements in AI and Future Possibilities

    How will AI impact the recruitment industry in the next three to five years?

    Here is Jon’s response, “realistically, especially on the shorter timescales like three, five years, there isn't really any chance of recruitment being fully automated, and so what's going to happen is companies like Nebula and, of course, incumbents like LinkedIn are going to incorporate more and more automation, particularly generative AI, to automate the parts of your job. That can be so that things like sourcing candidates and stacking them in the right order drafting the initial message to them and drafting responses these things in three years I hope that most of your listeners are experiencing that kind of automation from platforms like Nebula in three years from now.”

    Should recruiters worry that AI will take away most jobs in the industry? Highly unlikely. On the contrary, candidates and clients alike will always want human interaction. As Jon said, “Humans looking for a purpose in their work prefer to be speaking to a real human that they can meet with and get human advice from and context from.”

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Jon Krohn Bio and Contact Info

    Dr. Jon Krohn is the Chief Data Scientist at Nebula, author of the bestselling book Deep Learning Illustrated, and host of the SuperDataScience podcast. Jon is renowned for his compelling lectures, which he offers in-person at Columbia University, New York University, and leading industry conferences.

    Jon on LinkedIn

    Jon’s website link

    Jon’s podcast, Super Data Science website link

    Nebula IO website link

    Jon on YouTube

    Deep Learning Illustrated book by Jon Krohn

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Ed Donner on LinkedIn

    Steven Talbot on LinkedIn

    Flash Boys: A Wall Street Revolt Book by Michael Lewis

    Omnicon

    Github

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#52 The End of Jobs: Recruiting in the Age of Artificial Intelligence, with Jeff Wald

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Building a thriving recruitment business in the middle of a global pandemic may be unimaginable to most people, but not for Kyle Winterbottom.

    Kyle’s strategy is clear and straightforward: give value, give value, give value! In this episode, Kyle uncovers the story of his journey into the recruitment industry and how the global crisis turned into a pathway of opportunity.

    Kyle is the Founder & CEO of Orbition Group, an award-winning talent solutions business. Based in Manchester, they focus exclusively on scaling Data, Analytics, and artificial intelligence teams across the UK, Europe, and the USA.

    Kyle is also the Founder/Host of the Driven by Data Community which is comprised of three components; The Roundtable, The Podcast, and The Mentorship. Kyle elaborated on his three proven long-term strategies for boosting engagement and building relationships

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:02] Launching a recruitment business during the height of the pandemic.

    [06:11] Community building and visibility to build brand awareness.

    [10:23] Giving value through podcasting - should you start your own podcast?

    [17:02] Establishing commercial relationships.

    [24:26] How hosting live events can scale your business by demand.

    [34:43] Kyle talks about their Mentorship Programme and why it is the best long-term strategy.

    [41:57] Growing by demand vs. growing by design.

    [46:10] Revisiting business development strategies.

    Give Value, Give Value, Give Value.

    The pandemic can be perceived by many as not the best time to launch a business, but Kyle looked at it as the best time to kick off Orbition. His strategy is clear and straightforward: leverage content marketing and community building to build brand awareness. Give value first, and build relationships after.

    “I guess that the whole premise was very simple. Just create a community of people who will ultimately be potential target customers and buying clients. Let's add a load of value to them and from there that'll create relationships. That then I guess the whole premise really is give value, give value, give value.”

    Kyle elaborated on his strategies and you will find that there are three main takeaways:

    Content marketing and adding value to your ecosystem can lead to a snowball effect, where people will want to participate in your engagement activities.

    Prioritizing value adding to your market will generate not only visibility. It will position you as an expert and thought leader which gives you authority.

    It builds the best type of relationship - as your audience appreciates your contributions, you build a relationship that goes beyond the customer-vendor type.

    Kyle shared his practices on how they continuously add value: via podcasting, live events, and mentorship programs.

    Podcasting and Hosting Events

    I was astonished when Kyle shared with me that 100% of their clients are through inbound marketing. I really wanted to pick his brains on their roadmap and the strategies they use.

    He shared that podcasting has been a really effective tool in engaging with their target audience. One of the reasons that it is really successful is because it invited guests who they find credible, people of influence and seniority within the marketplace who have something to share. Kyle also reminded the listeners that it can take time to really get engagement and ROI - so it is really important to be patient and consistent.

    After the pandemic, Kyle and his team started hosting free live events. These events started to garner more demand than they could facilitate, so they had to find the right balance of content and format in order to scale these events. They get very positive feedback from those who participate in these live events. Kyle and his team are able to bring together Chief Data Officers to share best practices while networking with one another.

    Aside from the above engagement components, Kyle also discussed their mentorship program.

    Deep Diving Into Their Mentorship Program

    “The mentorship program came from a place where I'm continually looking at what is the next thing that we can do for this community that adds value and how can we do something that also strategically aids the direction of the business”

    Kyle shared what their mentorship program looks like and how it helps those starting their career in data analytics improve in technical and soft skills. Kyle also revealed that this is not something they are monetizing at the moment. He shared why: “It's more about the brand visibility and having that relationship, because I think for us, in all honesty, what we can earn from you know, charging for a mentorship program will be really insignificant in comparison to what we can earn off having that relationship with those people and obviously, what you know we're again think about the long game. “

    This is indeed a wonderful approach to engagement and adding value to the community. If you think about it, the 300+ people joining their mentorship program become their brand ambassadors. Knowing that someday those who were mentored will eventually become decision makers and hiring managers, they will be future clients.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Kyle Winterbottom Bio and Contact Info

    Kyle is the founder and CEO of Orbition Group, an award-winning talent solutions business that operates exclusively within the Data and Analytics space across the UK, Europe, and USA. Kyle is also the Founder/Host of the Driven by Data Community which is composed of three components: Driven by Data: The Roundtable, Driven by Data: The Podcast, and Driven by Data: The Mentorship.

    Kyle is also featured in the Data IQ 100 Most Influential People in Data for 2022 and 2023.

    Kyle on LinkedIn

    Orbition Group website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Alex Cooke on LinkedIn

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#195 Recruitment Rhythms: How Human Connection Elevates You Above the Competition, with Alex Cooke

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Ever find yourself hitting a brick wall when it comes to developing engaging content? Don't despair!

    Recently, I was invited as a guest speaker on the Retained Recruiter Show, which is a weekly LinkedIn live hosted by our good friends at i-Intro. The topic was How to Get More Clients with Content Marketing. i-Intro told me that this was one of the most popular live streams that they'd ever produced, and they've given me permission to share the recording with you on this podcast.

    You will hear me discuss with James O’Brien and Jo Gregory strategies to effectively and consistently post original content and how it will attract your target audience. You will know how content marketing can position you as a trusted authority instead of being just a vendor.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:52] How content marketing transformed many recruitment businesses.

    [06:05] Mark shares the easiest way to get started with content marketing.

    [10:00] Authenticity is the key - leveraging AI platforms while keeping it original.

    [15:11] How much time do you need to put aside for content marketing?

    [18:30] How long would you give it to see engagement results?

    [23:26] The powerful returns of consistently posting content and sharing to your community.

    [30:27] How to measure and track your ROI from content marketing?

    What is Content Marketing?

    As a recruiter, content marketing is critical to continuously engage with your audience and remain relevant to clients and candidates. So what is content marketing? Content marketing is a marketing strategy that involves creating and distributing valuable, relevant content to your target audience on a consistent basis. It might be education-based marketing. In essence, you're providing market insight and thought leadership that will benefit your clients and your candidates.

    An example is the consistent posting of original content on LinkedIn. This is the easiest way for people to get started with content marketing. There are three reasons:

    This is a tool available for everybody, whether you are a small boutique search firm or an individual recruiter.

    There is guaranteed measurable ROI.

    It is fun! You get positive feedback and engagement from your network and can spark conversations with people you are already connected.

    From personal experience, I can tell you that content marketing can transform your business. Aside from building you an audience, consistent content original, and authentic content can build trust for you as an expert in your niche and a credible advisor.

    Time and Results in Content Marketing

    How much time do you need to put aside for content marketing? It really depends on how frequently you are going to post. The important step you take is to commit to a schedule. It is important to be consistent, so consider a schedule that you can sustain. If for example, you will post 3x a week or 12x a month: spending 20 minutes per post will only require you an hour a week to write or create that content.

    How long would you need to take to see engagement results? This can be a tricky question. Content marketing is like going to the gym. You may not see immediate results, but for sure, you will get results! The important thing is consistency. Just like how you would approach any business development and marketing activity - you may not get immediate results but you will definitely get results! But by showing up consistently, you are giving yourself the opportunity to be in that right place at the right time and, more importantly, you're creating what we call top-of-mind awareness or TOMA.

    Methods for Content Creation and Engagement

    What is the best content to create engagement? Should you use videos, images, audio, or just text-only posts? There are pros and cons to all those things, and ideally, you will want to do a variety of them all.

    You just have to go out there and do it. No need to complicate things. You can record a video on your smartphone while with a client or your team. You may post images of the industry conference you are attending for your audience to recognize you as a person of authority in your field.

    How about leveraging AI like ChatGPT to create content? You can leverage generative AI and many other tools. But the key is to keep it authentic, original, and relatable to yourself.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    People and Resources Mentioned

    James O’Brien on LinkedIn

    Jo Gregory on LinkedIn

    Rich Rosen on LinkedIn

    ChatGPT

    Claude AI



    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

  • What are the three success factors that would help a musician become a million-dollar biller recruitment business owner?

    Our special guest, Alex Cooke, shares the journey of his recruitment career from a musician background. You'll get to hear the fascinating parallels he draws between music and recruitment, emphasizing the significance of three success factors:

    How Human Connection Elevates You Above the Competition

    How Your Ability to Write Changes Everything

    How Your Market Insight Can Be Used to Build Trust

    Alex is a former professional musician who entered the world of recruitment at age 29.

    After 18 months with an agency in the UK, he transitioned to NYC and started on a journey that in 3.5 years would see him become a million-dollar/year biller as a biotech recruitment specialist.

    Alex is now the CEO of Phase 3 Search, a biotech search firm he founded in 2018. In the last 5 years, he’s retained 95% of his clients and generated $6.5m in sales.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    01:14 How Alex got into recruiting from a musician background.

    06:10 Alex’s intentional approach to building connections with people.

    12:15 How Alex progressed into the Bio-Tech niche.

    21:55 Discussion on the effective sales approach.

    34:52 Getting an in-depth understanding of your market - discussion on best practices.

    39:45 Why writing is important for recruitment business owners and how Alex enhanced his writing and storytelling.

    50:44 Understanding your clients to build relationships.

    55:30 Difference between the different levels of searches.

    How Human Connection Elevates You Above the Competition

    As a musician, Alex believes that creating music is about connecting with the listeners. He sees this as a parallel to recruitment, where human connection can elevate you above the competition. We discussed the importance of networking with people in order to be successful in any career, and how to build connections with people intentionally.

    He started with the value of listening to someone’s story. Doing so not only helps you build a meaningful connection, but also puts you in a position where you can assess if they can be good candidates, clients, or business partners. “I think the most interesting thing about anybody you meet is their story, right? So actually being fascinated by someone's journey. And if you take a step back and put your recruitment hats on, what I spend much of my time doing is thinking about is this person a good leader. What characteristics do they bring to the table?”

    Adaptability was also emphasized. He talked about how an introvert can connect with an extrovert and vice-versa. We also talked about the style of writing and communication, on how it should be adapted geographically. We also covered their candidate-centric and relationship-driven sales approach.

    Minding these little things helps Alex and his team to intentionally create human connections and build relationships.

    How Your Ability to Write Changes Everything

    Writing skills can help recruiters in a lot of ways, some of which are engaging with candidates, making personalized outreaches, and getting better responses in email campaigns. Alex understands that improving his writing can be a game-changer. Alex was aware that writing was not one of his strengths, so he took proactive steps to level up his game.

    “Okay, so you know me and writing. I didn't think I could write even. Even through university. I really struggled to write essays. The whole thing was just a bit of a nightmare, to be honest with you, and there was this point in my career. I'm ultimately going into recruitment and realizing that the very first step of any recruitment process is typically a message sent out.”

    The very first step he took was getting a really good book on grammar (reference link below). For Alex, this is critical because “there's nothing worse than receiving a message and it's talking about something deadly serious and sensible and how it's going to advance your life with the spelling mistake or a silly grammatical error in it.”

    Alex shared his best practices such as asking people what frustrates them about their job and applying it to his outreach, changing their style to elicit a response from different types of people, and how to use bullet points and paragraphs to make it easier for people to read and respond.

    How Your Market Insight Can Be Used to Build Trust

    Alex also shared their best practices when it comes to understanding their clients and markets. Some of the key topics on this subject that we covered are:

    The importance of tracking leads and maintaining diligence when following up with clients

    How to develop an ideal client profile

    How to conduct avatar interviews to better understand your target audience

    How to effectively negotiate contracts and create successful partnerships with decision-makers and leaders

    Understanding the needs of potential partners and adopting a candidate-centric approach to build a successful pipeline

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Alex Cooke Bio and Contact Info

    Alex is a former professional musician who entered the world of recruitment at age 29. After 18 months with an agency in the UK, he transitioned to NYC and started on a journey that in 3.5 years would see him become a biotech specialist, a million-dollar / year biller, and the owner of a multi-million dollar biotech search firm.

    Alex on LinkedIn

    Phase 3 Search website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

  • “Everything is cyclical.”

    Recruiters and recruitment business owners who have been in the industry for many years understand that no matter how bad the hiring market is, things will get better. This is exactly the approach and mindset of Nick Cabral, our special guest, that enabled them to navigate the 2008-09 recession successfully.

    Nick is the Principal of Boston Investment Staffing Group. He specializes in permanent and contract placements within the investment and financial services industry. They focus on working with boutique investment managers and becoming an integral partner in their hiring process.

    He has carved out a successful entrepreneurial path, starting his business amidst the challenges of 2009, and weathering the storm of the 2008 recession. Nick’s tales of waiting for the first deal and his survival strategies are packed with priceless insights and advice that a lot of recruitment business owners will find valuable today.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:03] How Nick got into the recruiting industry.

    [07:27] Nick’s significant learnings when working with Boston Networking Group.

    [11:39] What prompted Nick to launch Boston Investment Staffing Group in 2009?

    [14:31] Navigating the uncertainties of the 2008-09 recession.

    [19:11] Nick shares his candidate-centric approach to recruiting and how it led to relationship building.

    [25:43] Discussion on the respect component in a recruitment process.

    [29:17] The art of building professional relationships in a post-pandemic environment.

    [37:36] Understanding and applying the rule of ten.

    [42:58] The significance of asking the right questions to candidates.

    Navigating the Uncertainties of the 2008-09 Recession

    Being in the industry for more than two decades, Nick has built an outstanding career as a recruiter and a recruitment business owner. In our conversation, he was more than generous and shared the significant learnings he had when he worked with his previous employer. He also gave context on what prompted him to launch his own recruitment firm, during the 2008-09 recession.

    His experience resonates well with me as Nick and I had the same experience during those unfavorable market conditions. I admire his mindset and resilience. He believes that everything is cyclical, and eventually, things will start to pick up again. He also emphasized, “So I think my mindset was keep doing the work, keep making sure that you are contacting clients and candidates and staying on their radar. You're not going anywhere. This is what you're going to do, and I think because of that kind of never-equipped mentality. It led to all right, 2010 got better, and then 11 was even better, and then 12 was a banner year, and so it was hard but manageable. I think you just got to kind of stay grounded in the fact that if you do the work, it will get where you want it to go.”

    I know that 2023 is not like the 2008-09 recession, but it appears to be a weird year for some markets. If you are experiencing a slowdown in the industry you are supporting, Nick’s advice of just staying in the course, keeping doing the work, and focusing on what you can control can help. Remember that this is cyclical.

    Building Relationships and Asking Reflective Questions

    Nick and I also discussed critical topics on relationship-building which includes the value of meeting in person as well as asking the right questions to your clients and candidates. He also emphasized the importance of the ‘respect component’ in the recruitment process. He shared these three factors that contribute greatly to his success, and it was an astonishing discussion because, in the end, you will find that these are interrelated to one another.

    The importance of meeting in person. He shared how he does virtual preps and trying to get back in person for face-to-face meetings. He shares how he has been able to build relationships further due to the emphasis on “IRL meetings” which is much different than just a quick phone call.

    The respect component goes both ways. Nick elaborated on how he believes respect helps him build a long-term client and candidate base. He specifically mentioned how giving constructive feedback and transparency to candidates is a critical act of respect.

    Asking the right questions. “Do you want this job?” is an effective question that can be a game changer when building candidate relationships. Nick is not just focused on making placement, instead, he assures all candidates that he wants the best for them by focusing on their long-term growth.

    Applying the Rule of Ten

    Nick also shared his 'rule of 10' which helps him to stay on track with his goals and activities. Basically, the premise is that in every ten pieces of activity, you will have one placement. This is how he described it: “In the rule of ten, if you have ten pieces of activity, it's going to lead to one placement, right, so that could be a candidate, so say it's your candidate and your client will count that as two, right, but if you have ten pieces of activity, odds are you're going to, you're going to have one placement and you could get lucky and hit three or four, you could be unlucky and you don't hit any. And where it really gets exciting is if you have, say, when you get up to 20 or 25 pieces of activity all at once.”

    He uses this goal-oriented way of thinking when training junior recruiters and so far it has been effective in motivating their team to stay on track with activities.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Nick Cabral Bio and Contact Info

    Nick started his recruiting career in 2003 and has significant experience working with permanent and contract financial services professionals. Nick has worked with many large financial institutions and small boutique investment managers and has become an integral part of their hiring process. Nick graduated from Bentley University with a degree in Finance and a minor in Philosophy.

    Nick on LinkedIn

    Boston Investment Staffing Group website link

    Non-Profit Organizations that Nick supports:

    Dana-Farber Cancer Institute website link

    American Cancer Society website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Andrea Collabella on LinkedIn

    Abigail Stevens on LinkedIn

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#167 3 Simple Steps to Increase Your Billings from 6 to 7-Figures, with Andrea Colabella

    TRR#104 International Recruitment: Hard Won Insights From Placing People Around the World for 25 Years, with Abigail Stevens



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.




  • When a life-changing event like the birth of a child happens, it often forces us to re-evaluate our careers and lives. That's exactly what happened to my special guest, Enric Miquel, the founder of Pharma New Talent, a life sciences recruitment firm.

    After becoming a father, Enric embarked on a new journey from pharmaceuticals to recruitment, and in this episode, he shares the highs and lows of starting his own recruitment firm. We also delve deep into the world of international recruitment as Enric shares his experiences with hiring a virtual assistant. He discusses the pros and cons of such a move and offers insightful advice for recruiters considering the same path.

    Finally, we explore the hard-earned wisdom Enric has gained from his journey. From building confidence as an established leader in the recruitment industry to dealing with the challenges of raising his fees, Enric's story will show you the value of resilience and dedication.

    Prior to launching his recruitment company, he was an International Brand Manager in charge of the Middle East and Asia Regions, having launched medical products in 8 different countries. Growing with the company from 500K € in 2014 to 10 million in 2021 I’ve worked with Enric, as a member of our coaching program and he is a massive action taker who has implemented many of the strategies we teach.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:52] Inspiration to start a recruitment firm.

    [10:40] How Enric propelled business growth through investment in training and self-improvement.

    [13:49] Forgoing consultancy safety net and transitioning to 100% recruiting.

    [16:45] Recruiting internationally and embracing new markets.

    [26:16] Hiring a VA for sourcing and recruitment.

    [30:34] Challenges and rewards of pivoting from contingent to retained recruiting.

    [36:00] Why Enric started a podcast and how it contributes to his business.

    [42:02] Overcoming impostor syndrome is the biggest challenge.

    [48:25] Discussion on tracking metrics and KPIs.

    Inspiration to Starting and Growing a Recruitment Firm

    Enric had no recruitment background when he decided to transition into recruitment. What prompted him to jump out of his comfort zone was when his daughter was born which made him rethink his priorities.

    “One of the most important to think about when starting the business was the date of giving birth, or my partner giving birth to my daughter Olivia was to me a way to rethink priorities. What did I want it to do in life? Especially, this came after COVID. Also, this was a period of long reflections on what would I want it to do next. But you are right, I didn't have any recruitment agency background. I haven't been a recruiter on my own. I was a product manager.”

    There were at least three key factors that propelled Enric to his success:

    He can spot opportunities and connect the dots. Enric shared how he was able to close out big placements through his network.

    He invests heavily in coaching and training. Enric approached me back when he was just starting his recruitment firm. “I need to train my skills 100% to keep growing the business, and also not only when you are a startup. It's tough, but especially if you're a solo recruiter, you need to be part of a wider community, you need to be part of the crowd, and joining the Inner Circle group gave me that. So, even though it was a big investment because if you look at the percentage of investment in my year plan and the part of the revenue that was taken from my investment in training was very big and very representative it turned out to be the best decision I could make because I more than doubled my revenue in the next year.”

    He is a strong implementor. Enric is a role model in implementation. He can implement critical elements in our coaching group which has contributed to success. The implementations include hiring a VA, creating value-adding content via LinkedIn and other platforms, marketing through podcasts, and pivoting from contingency to retained.

    Business Development Implementations

    Enric and I covered topics on implementations that would resonate with a lot of recruitment business owners. Given that he has no recruitment background, Enric sees things from a fresh perspective. He is aware that for his recruitment startup to succeed, he must compensate for the lack of experience by working hard and smart. Some of the key takeaways we covered are:

    The importance of hiring a VA: he shared how hiring someone from Venezuela greatly helps in his North American expansion.

    Creating value-adding content and running a podcast: Enric said, “I had this first experience in 2019 with podcasting. So I thought it was a great idea to build networking, and then you put the idea into my mind to start with that. So to me, podcasting is a way to build a network among candidates and clients.”

    Transitioning from contingent to retained: Enric lost some clients when he had to transition to retained search. However, he believes that this is one of the best decisions he made as it brings him more joy and is best for the business in the long run.

    Enric also shared how he had to let go of the safety net of pharmaceutical consulting so he could focus all his energy on recruiting to make it work. Enric believes that mindset and consistent effort led to his success.

    Overcoming the Challenge Imposter Syndrome

    When we delved into what he considers his biggest challenge, Enric revealed his challenge that a lot of us can relate to.

    “I guess I felt kind of the famous imposter syndrome of who are you to become a recruiter overnight and that led to, you know, begin with low fees what I consider now low fees. So overcoming this syndrome, let's say, has been the most challenging... This has been probably the most challenging part that's interesting.”

    Enric took proactive steps to build his confidence. He elaborated on his approach to KPIs and metrics and how it gives him confidence by objectively understanding the value that he provides to his clients.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Enric Miquel Bio and Contact Info

    Enric Miquel is a highly accomplished professional with a diverse background in the healthcare and business sectors. He holds a Pharmacy Doctorate from the prestigious University of Barcelona, where he honed his expertise in pharmaceuticals and healthcare.

    With a passion for global business development, Enric has excelled in his role as an International Brand Manager, overseeing the Middle East and Asia regions. His career highlights include successfully launching medical products in eight different countries. Under his leadership, the company experienced remarkable growth, with revenues skyrocketing from 500,000 € in 2014 to an impressive 10 million € in 2021.

    In July 2021, inspired by a profound life change with the birth of his daughter, Olivia, Enric Miquel took a bold step in his entrepreneurial journey. He founded Pharma New Talent, a pioneering Life Science recruitment firm. This endeavor reflects his passion for talent development and his dedication to shaping the future of the pharmaceutical and healthcare industries.

    Enric's exceptional career trajectory, marked by academic excellence, international business acumen, and a commitment to talent development, makes him a standout figure in the pharmaceutical and healthcare sectors. His journey continues to inspire and empower those around him, propelling innovation and excellence in every endeavor he undertakes.

    Enric on LinkedIn

    Enric on Twitter

    Enric on Instagram

    Pharma New Talent website link

    New Talent podcast link

    Pharma New Talen on YouTube

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Rich Rosen on LinkedIn

    Upwork

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR# Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen



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  • Adding management consultancy as a service offering of your recruitment agency can potentially increase your revenue. But the question is, is it easier said than done?

    In this episode, you will hear insights from Colin Kleine, co-founder of Scalerr. They’re a growth advisory firm that helps Tech companies reach their revenue goals through Strategy, Execution, and People.

    Colin discusses why he made the pivot from Recruiter into Management Consultant, and why recruitment was so fundamental in helping him successfully do it. He shared the challenges, key learnings, and how this transition benefits their business.

    I have known Colin since 2014, he’s a former client and I’ve tracked his remarkable rise, especially since he launched Scalerr.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:07] Colin shared how he came across Mark and the learnings he took that transformed his billings.

    [05:34] The highs and lows that led Colin to start Scalerr.

    [11:45] Thriving during the longest COVID lockdown.

    [16:21] From recruitment to management consulting: Colin explains how their advisory services help clients expand internationally to increase their valuation.

    [28:49] Mark emphasizes how understanding the client's objectives rather than just filling roles can add more value.

    [38:14] How having a co-founder who is aligned with Collin’s passion became a game-changer.

    [48:30] Colin shares the biggest challenges that he had to face when building Scalerr.

    [56:13] Key success factors and milestones that led Colin and Scalerr to where they are now.

    [1:00:46] Colin thanks Mark for being a mentor and inspiration throughout his career.



    Recruitment Skills and Experience Leading to Management Consulting

    How Colin pivoted from being just a recruiter to a management consultant is a story that I find fascinating. Aside from talent acquisition, Scalerr helps startup companies scale up and expand globally and increase their valuation. What propelled this shift? Colin shared three takeaways:

    Understanding their client’s objectives and challenges. Colin and his team are focused on being consultative and understanding their client's journey, stresses, and pain points.

    Learning from experience: having helped more than 150 companies, Colin and his team learned what makes some businesses successful and some businesses fail. They have come up with a playbook that

    Leveraging his recruitment experience, Colin took lessons from the CEOs, VPs, and other key positions he placed. He said, “You learn information that somebody else is prepared to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for. So you start learning what is it that made some companies wildly successful? What is it that successful CEOs did to grow and scale a company and also understand how all of this ties in ultimately into valuation?”

    The management consulting arm of their business skyrocketed, leading Colin and his team to start a venture arm.

    Challenges and Solutions While Building Scalerr

    Just like all business owners, Colin faced a multitude of challenges when building Scalerr. I wanted to hear what his top challenges are and how his team was able to overcome them. He shared one particular challenge that resonates with many recruitment business owners:

    “Not enough hours in the day, as many entrepreneurs will do, and make this mistake of trying to do too much of it yourself. And I know there's going to be a lot of people listening to this podcast that know exactly what I'm talking about, not realizing when it's now time to start delegating things out and bringing somebody on board to do that, not knowing when to give up control and relinquish.”

    Colin emphasized the importance of systemizing and delegating tasks. Not doing so and becoming overwhelmed with tasks you can delegate will be a constraint to scaling your business.

    Creating a Flywheel: Pivotal Factors That Propelled Scalerr to Their Current Achievements

    Another topic that stood out to me is how Colin and his team were able to create a flywheel - their consultancy work feeds their recruitment segment and vice versa. Instead of solely relying on placements as a revenue stream, they were able to establish their consultancy to the point that it could be a standalone revenue source. Colin described it this way: “I think there's a lot of mutual value added and then you start speaking to them and introducing yourself and building a relationship, and more and more people know you, and guess what? They end up giving you recruitment work.”

    Colin also elaborated on the three pivotal factors that he believes contributed greatly to their current achievements:

    Diversification of where they source their leads.

    Foundational understanding of their clients on a business level.

    Creating their own flywheel and not solely relying on placements as a revenue source.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Colin Kleine Bio and Contact Info

    Colin specializes in forging innovative revenue streams through strategic channel partnerships, crafting accelerated GTM and Commercialization strategies, and handpicking high-impact teams with a battle-tested background in startup scaling. His expertise spans customized advisory and recruitment services, enabling swift market validation, deft navigation of the intricate APAC landscape, and securing vital venture capital and government grants. With an impressive portfolio of over 150 victorious startups, Colin's results-driven approach guarantees maximum revenue, valuation growth, and a triumphant expansion into the APAC market. As a dedicated investor and seasoned business advisor, Colin puts his money where his mouth is, committed to your success while leveraging his insider knowledge to drive your business forward.

    Colin on LinkedIn

    Scalerr website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Allan Cutter on LinkedIn

    Leanne Sarah Jones Hunt on LinkedIn

    Traction by Gino Wickman

    The E Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber

    Who Not How by Dan Sullivan

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach




    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

  • Working 100+ hours a week nearly burned Gregg out. If running your recruitment business is stressing you out, Gregg’s story may be able to help you.

    I am pleased to be joined by Gregg Salkovitch. Gregg is intentionally growing his recruitment firm to become a lifestyle business. Along the way, he learned a lot of things to achieve his goal while gaining more lifestyle freedom. You will hear insightful strategies on how Gregg is building his team and delegating tasks. We also discussed why it is critical to hire a COO to help you in scaling your business.

    After a career as a top sales performer for 3 consecutive companies, Gregg co-founded a sales recruitment agency to combine the 2 things he loves most in business: sales and helping people. In 6 years, Gregg grew his company organically with no outside funding to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for fastest growing companies 3 consecutive times. He then started a separate recruiting company, Right Choice Resources, which specifically focuses on the placement of salespeople, executives, marketing, account management, and customer success.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:38] Gregg’s journey of how he got into recruiting.

    [04:30] When being laid off is a blessing in disguise.

    [10:18] Transitioning from individual contributor to a recruitment business owner: Gregg shares the challenges that they overcame.

    [14:51] Scaling team to 60 people in six years.

    [17:07] Gregg reveals his key success factors.

    [20:06] Character over resume: hiring strategies to get the right people.

    [35:11] Discussion on growth strategies for a lifestyle business.

    [37:02] When to hire a COO role to scale your business.

    [42:49] Make less money in the short term to get long-term benefits.

    [48:04] Transferrable skills from sales to recruiting.

    [52:57] What is next for Gregg and his business?

    Getting Laid Off Pushed Gregg Into a Recruiting Career

    Gregg shared an amazing story of resilience on how he got into the recruiting industry. Getting laid off unexpectedly pushed Gregg into a recruiting career. He loved his sales job and was blindsided when he was laid off after 4 years as a top performer. This made interviewing difficult as he had to overcome the perception that he must have underperformed despite being an actual top performer. He also had non-compete from his old company which prevented him from staying in the same industry.

    Facing these challenges pushed Greg to explore a new path by using his sales skills to transition into recruiting. This pivot into recruiting ended up being life-changing for Greg's career. You will hear how he used skills he learned from sales to be an effective recruiter. He even leverages his experience of being laid off to engage with candidates. “I think when I speak to candidates and we're seeing more layoffs right now, I have major empathy for them because it's not just like, I've sold like you. I've stood at trade shows for 5 hours like you. I've been laid off like you. And that really helps me, in my opinion, become a better recruiter because I've actually lived it.”

    Though difficult, getting laid off opened new opportunities that Greg capitalized on. In his words, “It was a blessing in disguise. It was probably the best thing that ever happened.”

    Character Over Credentials: Building an All-Star Team to Scale

    Another topic that will also resonate with a lot of business owners is strategies for hiring recruiters and team members to scale. Gregg focuses on hiring people based on character and shared values over resume credentials. He wants people he genuinely enjoys working with. He told the story of how hiring a trusted person without recruiting experience worked well for their business.

    This strategy works well for Gregg and his team. He has grown his first recruiting company (with no outside funding) to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for Fastest-Growing Companies 3 times! These are some of my takeaways from their strategy:

    Vetting the work ethic, values, and coachability is crucial

    Greg wants employees he has a natural rapport

    A team aligned in values helps ensure an ethical, collaborative culture

    Why Hiring a COO is Critical

    If you are a solo recruitment entrepreneur and planning to scale, hiring a COO is critical. This has been true for both Gregg and me, where hiring an effective COO became a game changer.

    A lot of us may be able to relate to what Gregg said:

    “I've been doing it by myself for twelve years and I've never really had help. And it's been exhausting. I mean, it's been an amazing ride, but it's been exhausting. And I like to have my recruiters focus on recruiting. I mean, that's what keeps the lights on and not worrying about doing side projects and onboarding employees and dealing with maybe a tough client, which I know is going to wear them down a little bit. So that's why I decided to hire somebody in operations, is that I have my recruiters recruiting. I'm doing everything else, and to do everything else, it's a lot. I just need a helping hand.”

    Gregg is intentionally growing his firm slowly to have a lifestyle business. Hiring a COO helps him to focus on sales while delegating operations. Offloading operational tasks and delegating things that he does not enjoy doing creates more freedom and a better lifestyle. This resonates well with me. Some business owners may be apprehensive to take this approach because paying someone else can translate to lesser profit. But keep in mind that making less in the short term creates more freedom to earn much more in the long term.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Gregg Salkovitch Bio and Contact Info

    After being a top sales performer for 3 consecutive companies, Gregg decided to co-found a company combining the 2 things he loved most in business, sales and helping people. Over 6 year period, Gregg grew this bootstrapped company with no outside funding to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for fastest growing companies 3 consecutive times. He then started a separate recruiting company, Right Choice Resources, which specifically focuses on the placement of salespeople, executives, marketing, account management, and customer success.

    Gregg on LinkedIn

    Right Choice Resources website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Allan Fisher on LinkedIn

    Greg Savage on LinkedIn

    Paul Warner on LinkedIn

    Rocket Fuel by Gino Wickman and Mark C. Winters

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher

    TRR#189 Recruiting the Savage Way: Navigating AI, Metrics, and Mindset for Recruitment Success, with Greg Savage

    TRR#143 How a Competitive Bike Racer Turned Recruiter Built a 7-Figure Staffing Firm in 3 Years, with Paul Warner



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.



  • Transitioning from a comfortable corporate recruitment career to building an agency is not an obvious choice for many. The risks it entails may even stop some recruiters from considering this transition. Although it may be a significant leap, with the right skills, mindset, and support, it can lead to a rewarding and profitable career change.

    My special guest, Pat Corrigan, shares his story of how he successfully transitioned and thrived as a recruitment agency owner from being a corporate recruiter for more than a decade. Pat shares the three key factors to his success, as well as the strategies he continues to implement in building his team and driving revenue.

    Pat is the founder of Palladium Point, a leading executive search firm based in St. Louis, serving the commercial insurance industry nationally.

    His recruitment career spans fifteen years, and for the past six years has been focused on building high-performing sales teams for leading commercial insurance brokers.

    After spending years leading the sales recruitment function for a global insurance broker, Pat pursued his entrepreneurial dreams and started his own firm. Since launching in 2022 they’ve taken off like a rocket.

    I’m also honored to have Pat as a member of our Inner Circle coaching program.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:03] Pat's Journey into Recruiting - From Corporate Recruitment to Agency Ownership.

    [12:40] The Bold Leap - Leaving the Comfort of Corporate Life to Establish His Firm - Discover the 3 Key Success Factors.

    [19:06] Accelerating Revenue Growth and Building a High-Performing Team.

    [24:17] How Bringing in Operations Personnel and Offshore Sourcers Became a Long-Term Solution for Pat's Business.

    [32:32] Pat Shares His Proven Client Development Approach.

    [39:07] Building Sustainable Growth - Implementing Systems and Processes.

    [49:30] Crafting an Inspiring Vision and Culture.

    Successful Transition From Corporate Recruitment to Becoming an Agency Owner

    For 15 years, Pat established himself as a recruitment leader for several corporate staffing firms. He had a colorful career but what resonated with me is his story of how being let go from a previous job was a pivotal moment that led him to where he is today. Pat emphasizes the importance of resilience and learning from every experience.

    Pat also revealed what prompted him to leave his corporate gig to set up his firm. His strong work ethic and niche expertise are the foundations that enabled his transition. He shared three critical focus areas that have been key to his success:

    Meticulous Planning - he took time to consult with others and assess potential risks before making his decision.

    Niche Focus - he leverage on his niche expertise that he had developed for half a decade.

    Cash Reserves - he understood that starting a business may not always easily take off successfully, so Pat ensured that he had enough cash reserves to hold him over for a while.

    This indeed is an inspiring story for corporate or in-house recruiters aspiring to become recruitment business owners someday.

    Strategies for Building a Team and Driving Revenue in a Short Span of Time

    We then moved on to discuss strategies for building his team and driving revenue in a short span of time. Pat discussed how long he had to work on his own before he started hiring the next person. After around three or four months he started building his team and his first hire was an ops person. How did this decision to hire an operations person impact his business long term?

    His logic behind it is, as Pat puts it, “If I want to attract, recruiters, or eventually salespeople into my organization, I want to give them the platform to get out there and kick tail. And I didn't want somebody to come in as the first recruiter and say, well, here's your ATS license and your LinkedIn recruiter and Zoom info …I like kind of linear stuff, and I wanted to not rush it. And as we're bringing on talent, I wanted, like, a real solid business platform that people could access”

    This is remarkable insight. Pat hired an operations person to establish a solid foundation for future growth. This strategic move allowed him to attract recruiters and create a platform that would support their success. The hiring process was focused on setting up systems and structures rather than rushing into recruitment because Pat valued organization and long-term growth potential.

    Pat then shared strategies in revenue which is focused on his approach to Business Development. Pat shared his perspective on sales which is focused on interaction and relationship building. He also described a Rainmaker Model way of working that enables him to get consistent revenue in running his business.

    Creating Systems and Processes for Growth

    Pat also emphasized the importance of putting up systems and processes for a smooth start for new hires. We discussed the platforms and tools they are using - such as Slack, to organize his team. He also shared his approach to having an offshore researcher and sources to help in lead generation.

    Pat advocates growth not only for his organization but for his team members as well. He highlighted the value of intentionally designing your business’ vision and culture to attract top talents aligned with your core values. He believes that having the right tools and working environment in place will help your team grow exponentially.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Pat Corrigan Bio and Contact Info

    As the Founder and President of Palladium Point, Pat brings a rich background in recruitment spanning nearly 15 years to the table. His journey began with recruiting top-tier talent for Lockton Companies, the world's largest independent insurance brokerage, where he played a pivotal role in driving industry-leading growth.

    Fueled by a desire to revitalize the recruitment and talent acquisition landscape within the insurance sector, Pat embarked on the path to establish his own firm. Recognizing the need for a more dynamic and contemporary approach, he envisioned a search firm that would infuse fresh ideas and perspectives into the industry while maintaining a collaborative, human, and intentional ethos.

    Today, Pat and his team at Palladium Point are trusted partners for insurance organizations navigating the intensely competitive landscape, while also serving as advisors to top talent seeking professional fulfillment.

    Prior to his venture into the insurance realm, Pat excelled in technology consulting, where he consistently delivered results on challenging recruitment initiatives for global and mid-market organizations. He proudly holds a B.A. in Psychology and Business from the University of Missouri.

    Pat on LinkedIn

    Palladium Point website link

    Palladium Point on LinkedIn

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Ravi Tangri on LinkedIn

    Gail Audibert on LinkedIn

    Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn

    Joe Rice on LinkedIn

    Rich Rosen on LinkedIn

    ClickUp (Project Management Tool)

    Slack

    Rad Reads, by Khe Hy

    Atomic Habits, by James Clear

    The E-Myth, by Michael Gerber

    10x is Easier Than 2x Dan Sullivan

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#155 How to Grow a Recruitment Agency from Start-Up to $3M Profit in Two Years, with Emily Rushton

    TRR#171 4 Essential Skills that All Recruitment Business Owners Need to Be Successful, with Chris Dinaso



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

  • Is implementing KPIs and measuring metrics the same as micromanagement?

    Measuring activities is fundamental to evaluating how effective your strategies are in running your recruitment business. However, there are some recruiters and business owners who are apprehensive about implementing metrics measurements and KPIs. Is that the same for your recruitment business?

    What are the metrics and KPIs that we should measure? How do we implement a KPI and data-driven environment without giving the vibe that team members are being micromanaged? How do you communicate the intent and purpose of your KPIs to your team members?

    In this episode, Greg Savage explained why it is not about micromanaging and discusses metrics that empower talents. On top of this, you will also hear insightful takes on critical trends in AI and technology, and why your mindset is the key in your recruitment career success.

    I am delighted to welcome the legendary Greg Savage to give us a reality check and revisit the pillars leading to recruitment success. Greg has four decades of experience owning, managing, and growing staffing businesses across the world. He’s the founder of four highly successful businesses; Recruitment Solutions (took to IPO). Firebrand Talent Search (trade sale), Eloquent Staffing (trade sale), and People2People.

    Greg still takes an active interest in founding and growing recruitment businesses, investing in recruitment start-ups in Australia and the UK. He’s a LinkedIn Top Voices and has been inducted into the Recruiter International Hall of Fame.

    He’s founder of The Savage Recruitment Academy, and author of the best-selling book, The Savage Truth, and has recently published a new book called Recruit The Savage Way.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:06] Greg and I delved into the essence of authentic leadership.

    [05:44] Exploring the four key factors for achieving success in the recruitment field.

    [11:01] Strategies for overcoming complacency and avoiding contentment with the status quo.

    [15:00] Greg shared his insights on the importance of continuous learning and how he benefits from nano degrees.

    [18:40] Greg’s valuable insights into the impact of AI on the recruitment industry.

    [29:41] Technological innovations that enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of recruitment.

    [32:08] Conversation about activities and key performance indicators (KPIs) and their role in achieving success in recruitment.

    [39:08] Exploring the best practices for effectively managing KPIs in recruitment.

    [47:52] Greg shared his perspectives on career development opportunities for recruiters.

    [57:00] Analysis of the economic landscape in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic.

    The Mindset, Attitude, and Resilience to Become a Successful Recruiter

    I have always valued Greg as a mentor all these years. With over four decades of phenomenal success in the recruitment industry, he is an established authority when it comes to sharing wisdom with aspiring recruiters and business owners. He has recently published a book, Recruit the Savage Way, which offers “practical advice, skills, and attitudes and will give rookies an excellent grounding to thrive in their new career and help veterans brush up and add new competencies.”

    We have talked about the first section which is on mindset and attitude. Greg said that one of the big reasons for the high turnover in the staffing and recruitment industry is because of the wrong attitude and mindset towards the industry. He mentioned the fallacy of believing that “recruitment is not rocket science,” because it is a complex, sophisticated job.

    Greg believes that the mindset and attitude factors are something that can be corrected early on. Like skills and competencies, mindset and attitude can also be honed and trained. He emphasized four factors:

    Believe in your value as a recruiter

    Believe in the value that you can deliver to your stakeholders

    Having that true resilience - which he refers to as the bounce-back ability

    Overcoming the threat of complacency

    Greg also shared insightful principles on what true resilience looks like for recruiters. He elaborated on the value of emotions and moving on with positivity. You will also appreciate how he defines complacency in the recruitment field.

    Activities and KPIs are Critical For Recruitment Success

    There is a section in Greg’s new book about the reality check on the importance of activities and KPIs to recruitment success. Greg elaborated on the two fundamental things to be successful in the business:

    “The first thing is if you don't do enough stuff in this business, you will fail.”

    “You cannot get better at something unless you measure it.”

    Greg and I talked about the myth that measuring your metrics and KPIs is synonymous with micromanagement. As Greg said, “There is no sports person or academic or anyone who doesn't measure their outputs and then try to work on improving them. So I mean, the problem with... most KPIs is that they are foisted on people with no consideration to where those people are up to, not explained why they're important.”

    Greg shared his advice to recruitment business owners on how to implement KPIs in a healthy working environment.

    Insightful Take on Career Development for Recruiters

    Greg also discussed a topic that deeply resonated with me: career development for recruiters and recruitment business owners. You will hear his thoughts on the threat of complacency. As he simply puts it, 10 years of experience is just 1 year of recruitment experience repeated 10 times if you are complacent. How do we overcome the trap of complacency and move forward with development?

    Continuous Learning. Greg is an advocate of continuous learning. He shared how he benefits from taking “nano degrees” to stay up to date with recent trades, such as AI.

    Owning Your Development. This is how Greg wittily describes it, “There is no one, nobody having sleepless nights about your career. Okay, maybe your mom, but nobody else is having sleepless nights about your career. Even a company that is going to help develop you, you've got to be dreaming if you think they're worried about where you're going to be in 15 years. And nor should they. You've got to worry about your career and you've got to take ownership of your career.”

    Do Not Only Think of Your Career as a Hierarchical One. Greg shared successful recruiters who have had satisfying careers by focusing on and growing the career of becoming a recruiter by itself. My takeaway from this is that appreciating the sense of progress honing your craft and seeing your results increase is extremely satisfying.

    Greg Savage Bio and Contact Info

    With a career spanning four decades, Greg is a founder of 4 highly successful businesses, a trusted advisor and respected voice across the global recruitment and professional services industries, and a regular keynote speaker at conferences around the world.

    Throughout his fascinating career, Greg has learned countless lessons in leadership, business, and life. One of his greatest achievements is his success as a communicator. An early adopter of social media for recruiters, Greg’s industry blog, The Savage Truth, is a must-read in the recruitment industry. In November 2018, he was named one of LinkedIn’s ‘Top Voices’.

    Greg’s website link

    Greg on LinkedIn

    Greg on Facebook

    Greg on Twitter @greg_savage

    Greg on Instagram: @gregsavagetruth

    Greg on Youtube

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Driving performance with recruitment metrics and KPIs

    Greg’s Masterclass: Recruit - The Savage Way: A recruitment masterclass series from Greg Savage

    Greg’s new book: Recruit the Savage Way

    Recruitment Coach Live Summit in Florida - recruitmentcoach.com/florida

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#1 The Future of Recruitment: Strategies To Stay Relevant and Effective, with Greg Savage

    TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage



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