• Jami Rice has always been fascinated with true crime. After a surreal experience as a juror in a murder trial, Jami decided to begin telling the stories of true crime victims. The Murderish podcast takes delves into true stories of murder, disappearances, and other creepy events.

    Turning a Courtroom Drama into a Podcast
    Three years ago, Jami served as a juror in the trial of Rob Arvizu, who was charged with murder of his wife, Courtney Arivzu. Over the two-week trial, Jami and her fellow jurors learned about Rob’s abusive history and his frequent bouts of anger. Late one night, Rob brutally murdered Courtney as she tried to escape their Los Angeles apartment. Jami and her fellow jurors convicted Rob of first-degree murder. He was sentenced to 28 years-to-life in prison.

    After the trial ended, Jami wanted to tell Courtney’s story. So she decided to start a podcast, with the first episode focused on the Arvizu trial. Soon after, she recorded another episode on her own real-life horror story, followed by a number of local true crime cases. 

    Building the Murderish Brand 
    Two and a half years later, Jami’s continues to delve into true crime stories. She receives many episode ideas from her devoted fanbase, while also keeping her eyes peeled for cases in her southern California area. Today, Jami, her small team of researchers, and her producer have recorded over 40 hours-worth of true crime thrillers.

    Jami’s stories in Murderish focus on the victim. All too often, true crime stories neglect the victim’s personality and life-story. She doesn’t want them to become mere demographics. She wants to memorialize them. 

    Listening to this Podcast Doesn’t Make You a Murderer, It Just Means You’re Murder-ish.
    Jami’s has a devoted audience. See has connected with many fans throughout the past few years who share her fascination with true crime. The Murderish podcast has an active Facebook discussion group and Jami is frequently interacting with fans about past cases and ideas for future episodes. 
    If you’re a bit murder-ish too, start listening today!
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron! 

    Podcast recommendations:
    Minds of Madness
    Murderous Minors
    How I Built This
    Catch and Kill

    Find Jami at:
    Twitter: @MurderishPod
    Facebook Discussion Group: Murderish Podcast
    Instagram: @Murderishpodcast
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  • When she’s diagnosed with stage IV breast cancer, Molly decides to do something bold: she leaves her unhappy marriage and embarks on a series of sexual adventures to help her feel alive. These experiences are beyond anything she could have imagined, so she shares the details with her closest friend, host Nikki Boyer. The two best friends dissect these hilarious, often touching stories. And they growing even closer as they share Molly's journey together. From the makers of The Shrink Next Door and Imagined Life, Dying for Sex is a six-part series about friendship, death, sex, and what you do with the time you have left. Hosted by Nikki Boyer. Premieres on February 12th. Listen now at : wondery.fm/DFSPanyeInterview
    From Life-Changing News to a Life-Changing Decision
    Nikki Boyer is an actress, singer-songwriter, and a co-host of Straight Talk with Ross. She met Molly over twenty years ago in acting class and they have remained close friends ever since. Molly is one of the most creative and insightful women Nikki has ever met. 
    Molly battled breast cancer several years ago, only to have it return in several different parts of her body in the past year. Her doctors informed her the cancer was terminal. She does not know how much time she has left.
    Molly’s gut-wrenching story is all too common. However, her response to the news was unique. While some dedicate their remaining days to family and friends and others knock out “Bucket List” goals, Molly instead left her struggling marriage and entered the brave new world of dating--a world she never really experienced before. 
    Exploring Life Through Sex
    Molly moved out of her husband’s home and into a new place just a few minutes from Nikki. The two began having conversations about Molly’s wild, wacky, and jaw-dropping dating life (including plenty of Tinder encounters). Nikki broached the idea of turning these conversations into a podcast. Molly agreed.
    Over a six-episode podcast, Nikki and Molly recap Molly’s sexcapade. At first, the Dying For Sex podcast focuses on how Molly balances dating with her medicine, treatment plan, and doctor visits. Nikki is fascinated by Molly’s adventurism and willingness to put herself out there while in such a vulnerable state. 
    As the podcast progresses, Nikki’s questions reveal deeper and more intimate revelations about Molly. They begin to talk about more than just sex, as the conversations get more introspective. Molly teaches Nikki and the audience about love and friendship. Molly’s stories about her sex life gives Nikki new persectives on life and death, and an even deeper appreciation for Molly’s creative spirit. 
    Don’t miss this compelling conversation between Nikki and Molly--start listening today! 
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron! 
    Podcast Recommendations:
    Straight Talk with Ross
    The Joe Rogan Experience
    Stuff You Should Know

    Find Nikki at: 
    Insta: @nikkiboyer
    Twitter: @nikkiboyer
    Find Dying for Sex at https://wondery.com/shows/dying-for-sex/
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  • When host Nikki Boyer’s best friend Molly is diagnosed with Stage IV breast cancer, she decides to do something bold. She leaves an unhappy marriage and embarks on a series of sexual adventures to feel alive. Over this six-part miniseries, Molly shares the details of her hilarious escapades in a story about friendship, death, and what you do with the time you have left. From Wondery, the creators of Dirty John and The Moment comes Dying For Sex. Listen now at wondery.fm/DFS17
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  • Kirsten (Kirsty) Moore has found an outlet for her addiction to reality TV. A few years ago, she began a podcast called Reality TV & Me, which gives listeners an Australian’s perspective on some favorite American reality shows, with a focus on Bravo’s Real Housewives franchise.
    A Ten-Year Fascination with Reality TV
    Ten years ago, Kirsty was diagnosed with spinal cancer at the age of 21. Throughout surgery, recovery, and rehab, Kirsty couldn’t do the typical 21-year-old activities with her friends. Reality shows helped fill the void during this difficult stage of her life. Her first “reality show love” was Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew, quickly followed by the Real Housewives franchise and a whole host of reality shows that have come on air over the past several years. 
    Although halfway across the world, Kirsty and her fellow Australians find ways to watch their favorite American reality shows (including the Hayu platform). Their initial attraction to these shows stems from the shows’ wild and unbelievable characters. Kirsty prefers American reality shows, which she believes to have a bit more class.
    Kirsty decided to turn her obsession into a podcast. A few years ago, Kirsty began to produce Reality TV & Me in London while she was writing a book. She found that the podcast was a much-needed outlet from the draining process of writing. Since then, she continues to evolve and improve her podcast craft.
    American Versus Australian Reality TV
    Australia has also begun to air its own reality shows. Kristy is a huge fan of Bravo's Real Housewives of Melbourne, which follows a group of ladies that Kirsty calls “bogans”—the Australian version of American “rednecks.” She thinks that these wacky, hysterical ladies are most similar to the Real Housewives of Dallas. She’s particularly intrigued by their “unique” fashion statements. 
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron!
    Kirsty’s Podcast Recommendations
    Kirsty has a range of favorite podcasts, including:
    The Doctor Drew Podcast, which covers mental health issues.
    Insane Rambling, her brother’s podcast that airs every fortnight (i.e., once every two weeks).
    My Dad Wrote a Porno, an absurdly funny exposé on the writings of an older British gentleman.
    Pink Shade with Erin Martin, with Mary Payne as a frequent co-host. 
    Office Ladies, recapping every episode of the hit American TV show, The Office.
    Find Kirsty at:
    Website: kirstenmoore.com.au
    Podcast Instagram: realitytv&me
    Personal Instagram: shespernicious
    Personal Twitter: shespernicious
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  • The 1969 murder of a 12-year old girl in Nashville, Tenneesse has remained “officially” unsolved for over 50 years. But Flatrock host Olivia Lind gives listeners an in-depth look into the case that points to the guilt of one man. 
    True Crime Cases in Tennessee
    Olivia co-hosts a podcast called Something’s Not Right, a weekly series that primarily focuses on true crime cases in Tennessee. A past episode of Something’s Not Right focused on the “unsolved” murder of 12-year old Kathy Jones in a subsurb of Nashville traditionally called Flatrock. Olivia became enthralled in the case and wanted to do a deep-dive investigation. So she began a separate podcast on this story called Flatrock.
    Olivia assembled an all-star team to create her eight-episode series. She works with an NPR executive producer who led a production group that developed the script and executed the audio production. In addition, Steven Pacheco of Trace Evidence (and a past guest of Payne in the Pod) helped Olivia with creating the warnings/credits for the episodes. 
    A 1969 Murder in Flatrock
    12-year old Kathy Jones was murdered around Thanksgiving of 1969 in Flatrock. She was on her way to go roller skating, and her body was found in a vacant field a few days later. 
    Olivia investigates the circumstances and suspects surrounding Kathy’s murder. The most likely suspect is Darrel, then-boyfriend of Kathy’s mother Nora. (Darrel later married Nora, and they remained married until Nora’s death.)
    Flatrock provides the details of the murder, along with interviews of surviving witnesses from the case. Olivia’s investigation points to Darrel as the most likely suspect.
    Mary Payne and Nora grapple with the reality that someone alive today likely knows the truth of the murder---but refuses to come forward. They point to Darrel’s (literal) partner in crime named Tim (or “The Dude”) as someone who could probably come clean with the full story. They hope that someone will eventually clear his or her conscience by spilling the secrets of Kathy’s murder.
    A Violent End for the Suspected Killer
    Darrel was never a straight-edge citizen. He and Tim committed petty thefts in the past. Darrel later got into drug dealing. In fact, Darrel was murdered in 2011 during a drug deal gone wrong. The illegal and troubled circumstances of Darrel’s death reinforce suspicions that he was the most likely suspect in the “unsolved” case of Kathy Jones.
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron! 
    Podcast Recommendations: 
    Trace Evidence
    Dark Boutine
    Lords of Death
    Death in the Afternoon
    Getting Curious
    Find Olivia at:
    Instagram: @Notrightolivia
    Find Flatrock at:
    Website: https://www.flatrockpod.com/
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/flatrockpod
    Twitter: @flatrockpod
    Instagram: @flatrockpod
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  • Mary Payne welcomes back Tiffany Reese of the award winning podcast Something Was Wrong. Tiffany joined Mary Payne in Episode 27 of Payne in the Pod, where they talked about the Season 1 story of Sara’s engagement to a liar. In this episode, Mary Payne and Tiffany discuss the traumatic stories in Seasons 2 and 3 of Something Was Wrong.
    Stories of Emotionally Abusive Relationships
    Tiffany has produced three seasons of Something Was Wrong. Each story provides a gripping, immersive narrative into the experience of dealing with a narcissist, told from the viewpoint of the victim. 
    Season One follows the story of Sara, who was duped into an engagement (and eventual breakup) with a narcissist and serial liar. The podcast became widely popular and won a “Podcast of the Year” Iris award in 2019. 
    Tiffany’s two subsequent seasons take listeners into the lives of others who have been duped and emotionally abused. Season 2 follows Tee, a woman who befriended a deceptive and emotionally draining coworker. Season 3 brings the audience into the traumatic story of CJ, who deals with a narcissist seeking to ruin the lives of her in-laws.
    Tiffany has kept in close contact with Sara, Tee, and CJ even after each season concluded. She has a strong emotional bond with these women who shared their traumatic experiences with her. 
    Humanizing Interactions with Listeners
    Tiffany has chosen to use her personal Instagram account to promote her podcast, instead of using a separate podcast account. She believes her personal account helps people relate to her as a person, making her more approachable. She has also noticed that listeners treat her with more respect than if she used a professional (i.e., impersonal) account. Mary Payne agrees that the “personal touch” makes people less aggressive and negative.
    Season 4 Coming Soon
    Tiffany plans to begin releasing episodes of Season 4 of Something Was Wrong in late January 2020. This season will interview a survivor of a well-known American cult. Stay tuned!
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron! 
    Podcast Recommendations: 
    Crime Junkie
    Court Junkie
    The Dream
    Someone Knows Something
    Beyond Reasonable Doubt
    Case File
    Broken Hearts
    Slow Burn
    Dirty John
    Doctor Death
    Empire on Blood
    In the Dark
    She Says
    The Ballad of Billy Balls
    The Daily
    The Grift
    The Dropout
    The Vanished
    Thin Air
    Up First
    Up and Vanished
    The Teacher’s Pet
    Find Tiffany at:
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lookieboo/
    Website: https://www.somethingwaswrong.com/
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  • Anyone who has seen the hit TLC series 90 Day Fiancé knows that there is much more to the couples’ drama than the show lets on. That’s where the Fraudcast comes in. Podcast host Katrina takes listeners behind the scenes of 90 Day Fiancé to find out what is true and what is “fraud” in the couples’ relationships. 
    Picking Up Where Recap Podcasts Leave Off
    Katrina started pulling back the curtain on 90 Day Fiancé with an Instagram page that reveals the falsehoods behind some of the episodes. Kartrina’s Instagram popularity has grown rapidly, with over 60,000 followers today.
    Building on the success of her Instagram page, Katrina recently started Fraudcast to provide more in-depth discussions about 90 Day Fiancé. Fraudcast distinguishes itself from other reality TV show podcasts because it does not simply recap shows--instead, it digs deep into the episodes to find the truth about the couples.
    Katrina works as a lawyer in her day job and uses her legal investigative skills in her research for Fraudcast. She receives numerous scoops from cast members and other close sources, but she always makes sure to verify the information they provide. She will only post or discuss the scoops if she believes she could argue their veracity in a courtroom. 
    For the Diehards and Reluctant Followers of 90-Day Fiancé
    Katrina has a number of guest co-hosts on Fraudcast, but one regular guest co-host is her boyfriend (who is also the podcast’s producer). The audience enjoys the dynamic between Katrina, a 90 Day Fiancé diehard fan, and her boyfriend, who only loosely follows the show. Many listeners have told Katrina that the Fraudcast discussions mirror those of their own relationships.
    Only 11 episodes in, and the podcast is finding its stride and will continue to bring you behind-the-scenes access to one of TV’s most intriguing shows!
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron! 
    Podcast Recommendations: 
    22 hours
    The Dropout
    The Murder Squad
    Room 20
    Find Fraudcast at:
    Instagram: @fraudedbytlc
    Facebook Group: The Fraudcasters
    Podcast: https://www.talkersoffraud.com/
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  • In The Minds of Madness, host Tyler and his wife, Bek, use immersive storytelling to tell true crime stories from the perspective of the victim’s families. They go beyond the typical details discussed in new reports and, instead, provide a more personal view of a true crime event. In this episode, Mary Payne speaks with Tyler about his passion for true crime cases and his work to bring them to life.
    From True Crime Fan To Podcast Host
    Tyler has always loved true crime stories and audio productions. He grew up listening to old-time radio shows by legends like Orson Welles and Jack Benny. Several years ago, he began listening to popular true crime podcasts like Serial, and quickly became an avid listener to a wide range of crime podcasts.
    Tyler decided to start The Minds of Madness podcast about three years ago. He and Bek both have backgrounds in film and audio production, which made it a bit easier to produce the show. While they still have day jobs and a family to raise, Tyler and Bek are able to publish a new episode every other Sunday at 7PM EST.
    Immersive Storytelling 
    The Minds of Madness tells the stories of ordinary people doing unthinkable things. In each podcast episode, Tyler narrates a true crime case through the perspective of a victim and his or her loved ones. Tyler emphasizes the need to be delicate when telling true crime stories out of respect for the victim’s family and friends.
    Tyler often works with families of victims to research and produce episodes. He observes that many families want their stories to be heard and seek to memorialize their loved ones through the podcast. 
    Mary Payne is fascinated by the bizarre and unbelievable stories that Tyler tells. His first episode digs into the 1984 case of the abduction of Jody Plauche. Another remarkable episode discusses the murder of Kim Wall onboard the submarine of Danish entrepreneur Peter Madsen. You can check out all of the episodes here. 
    The True Crime Podcast Family
    Tyler and Bek do not produce their podcast in isolation; they have a number of friends in the true crime podcast world. Tyler notes that members of this close-knit community routinely help each other out, trade ideas, and collaborate on episodes. He always looks forward to catching up with his true crime friends at the annual CrimeCon. 
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron! 
    Podcast Recommendations: 
    Mysterious Circumstances
    Astonishing Legends 
    Moms and Murder 
    Generation Why (Stay tuned for a collaboration between The Minds of Madness and Generation Why coming soon!)
    Twisted Philly
    Real Life Real Crime
    Dark Poutine 
    True Crime Files
    Find Minds of Madness at:
    The Minds of Madness Website
    Twitter: @madnesspod
    Instagram: @mindsofmadnesspodcast 
    Facebook page: Minds of Madness
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  • Mary Payne sits down with her friend, Ingrid Sanden, to discuss their favorite podcast recommendations of 2019. Some of the most intriguing podcasts include true crime thrillers, first-person narrations, and investigations into overlooked and forgotten places (such as long-term care facilities and prisons). See the full listing of Mary Payne and Ingrid’s 2019 favorites below!
    Mary Payne’s Top Podcasts of 2019
    Room 20: Joanne Faryon of the LA Times digs into the life story of an allegedly unconscious and unidentified man in a long-term care facility, only known to the staff as “66 Garage.”
    Ear Hustle: This podcast gives an inside view of the life of San Quentin State Prison residents. It is co-produced by visual artist Nigel Poor and prison residents, Earlonne Woods and Antwan Williams. All episodes are recorded in the prison and tell the untold stories of the incarcerated men of San Quentin.
    The Shrink Next Door: Veteran New York Times journalist Joe Nocera tells the story of his neighbor, the famous therapist Isaac “Ike” Herschkopf. After a number of curious encounters, Nocera decides to begin investigating Ike’s background and makes some startling discoveries.
    Armchair Expert: American actor Dax Shepard has a long history of addiction. In this podcast, he sits down with a number of celebrities about their own struggles. Dax’s self-deprecating and honest nature help drive fascinating conversations with some of Hollywood’s elites, including Kate Hudson and Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
    Ingrid’s Top Podcasts of 2019
    To Live and Die in LA: Neil Strauss hosts a true crime podcast about the murder of an aspiring actress named Adea Shabani. Strauss’ investigation into Shabani’s murder is happening in real-time, which makes for dramatic and stunning storyline twists. 
    22 Hours - An American Nightmare: Megan Cloherty and Jack Moore of Washington, DC’s WTOP Radio tell the devastating story of the 2015 murder of a DC family and their housekeeper. The hosts were able to take a sensitive approach to this story, which hits close to home for many DC residents. 
    The Thing About Pam: Keith Morrison of Dateline takes listeners through a series of events that lead to multiple deaths in Lincoln County, Missouri in 2011. 
    The Dropout: Host Rebecca Jarvis tells the story of Elizabeth Holmes, former founder of Theranos, the infamous healthcare company. The podcast highlights the crazy worlds of healthcare, venture capital, and Silicon Valley.
    Ingrid also listed a few of her favorite interviewees on Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend: Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Lin-Manuel Miranda, and Howard Stern. 
    After another year of eye-opening podcasts, we are expecting more of the same for next year. Mary Payne and Ingrid look forward to presenting their favorite podcast recommendations of 2020 next December! 
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron!
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  • Mary Payne speaks with Steven Pacheco to talk about his journey to become the host of the true crime podcast, Trace Evidence. 
    Crime and History
    Steven grew up fascinated by history because it involves unknown elements and can be viewed from multiple lenses. Steven notes that we can never really know the complete story of a historical event because we are only given certain opinions and angles.
    Steven’s love for history has animated his interest in unsolved crimes, which also contain different perspectives and puzzling pieces of evidence--with the complete story remaining elusive. His interest in both crime and history has fueled his efforts to explore unsolved crimes.
    Digging into the Details
    Trace Evidence takes listeners to the frontlines of unsolved criminal cases. The true crime show typically covers three types of cases: disappearances; murders; and abductions. Steven said that about 60-70 percent of his episodes focus on disappearances, which are the most popular with his audience. 
    Trace Evidence episodes are divided into two parts. First, Steven outlines all of the available evidence of an unsolved case. Second, he discusses the top theories about the case. Mary Payne likes this structure, as the first part of the episode allows a listener to develop his or her own theory, and then the second part presents outside top theories for the listener to consider.
    Mary Payne is impressed by the amount of research Steven puts into every episode. In fact, Steven generally writes 20-25 page scripts for each show, providing extensive details and exploring outside theories for the case. He also includes outside audio clips and employs different character voices to bring the cases to life.
    The Learning Curves of Podcasting
    Steven and Mary Payne agree that podcasting is a work-in-progress, filled with trials and errors. When Steven began recording Trace Evidence episodes about two years ago, he quickly discovered the time-consuming nature of researching, writing, and producing a podcast. He now works full-time on the true crime podcast, and continues to find new, creative ways to improve his production. He also regularly updates his Trace Evidence website with links and additional information for each episode. 
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron! 
    Podcast Recommendations: 
    The Trail Went Cold
    Flat Rock
    Our Fake History
    Find Steven at:
    Facebook Page for Trace Evidence 
    Twitter: @TraceEvPod
    Instagram: @TraceEvidencePod
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  • Mary Payne sits down with her friend Doug Budin to discuss the blockbuster podcast called S-Town, which dives into the life of the enigmatic John B. McLemore. 
    A Groundbreaking Podcast
    Released in 2017, S-Town has become one of the most popular and critically acclaimed true crime podcasts over the past two years due to its brilliant storytelling, fascinating characters, and hauntingly beautiful music. S-Town was created by the producers of Serial and This American Life and is hosted by Brian Reed. 
    The podcast has not been without controversy. Soon after the podcast aired, McLemore’s Estate sued the producers of S-Town for revealing details of the now-deceased McLermore’s personal life without his permission. Despite the ongoing legal battle, S-Town continues to receive praise by listeners who are enthralled by the life of John.
    The Unusual Friendship of Brian Reed and John B. McLemore
    Mary Payne and Doug take us through the seven episodes of S-Town. Several years ago, Brian Reed began receiving messages from a stranger named John B. McLemore about a murder that occurred in his hometown of Bibb County, Alabama (which is not-so-affectionately called “Shittown” by John). When Brian traveled to Bibb County to look into John’s allegations, he quickly found that the real story was not with the now-debunked murder story, but rather with John himself. The first few episodes follow the budding friendship between Brian and John.
    S-Town takes a shocking turn when John committed suicide in 2015. The remainder of the series unravels John’s life, as seen through his friends and acquaintances. It also follows the legal battles for John’s Estate between his close friend Tyler and his relatives, Reta and Charlie. Mary Payne and Doug are more sympathetic toward Tyler, who, despite his own legal troubles and shady history, had a close and loving relationship with John.
    A Portrait of a Suffering Genius 
    Mary Payne and Doug find John to be a complex and intriguing character. A profane and ranting “redneck” from rural Alabama, John was also a mechanical genius, horologist, and self-educated expert on issues like climate change. He developed a number of close friendships and romantic relationships throughout his life, only to cut himself off once others came into the picture. John and his friends also discussed his struggles as a gay man in his rural South community. 
    John’s penchant for retreating from relationships and diving into rant-fueled depressions could be linked to his dangerous habit of fire gilding while working on clocks. This revelation provides us with a more complete understanding of S-Town’s protagonist. 
    Overall, Mary Payne and Doug recommend that everyone listen (at least twice) to this emotional and compelling podcast series. 
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron! 

    Podcast Recommendations: 
    Mob Queens
    Find Doug at:
    Instagram - @dougbudin
    Jeff Lewis Live on Radio Andy (Sirius Channel 102)
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  • In Murder in Oregon, host Lauren Bright Pacheco takes listeners back to 1989 Salem, Oregon where the state’s Director of Corrections, Michael Francke, was murdered. Soon after his death, authorities pinned the murder on a low-level meth dealer. Murder in Oregon looks into the murder through the lenses of Francke’s brothers and a local journalist who believe that authorities got it wrong--that Francke is dead because he knew too much.
     A Long Road to True Crime Podcasts
    Lauren Bright Pacheco has found a home in the podcast community. She and Mary Payne discussed how they enjoy media productions in which the subjects can drive the narrative and their voices can be heard. 
    Previously, Lauren was a TV producer on the Dr. Oz show where she met Melissa Moore, daughter of Keith Hunter Jesperson (the infamous Happy Face killer). Lauren and Melissa produced a podcast about Melissa’s dad called Happy Face.
    Lauren first heard of the Francke murder from journalist Phil Stanford during her production of the Happy Face. Phil worked for the Oregonian newspaper at the time of Francke’s murder, where his ensuing obsession with the case almost derailed his career. The more Lauren learned about the complex and compelling case, the more her fascination grew. She decided to start a podcast on this story and began production in March 2019.
    The Murder of Michael Francke
    Murder in Oregon takes listeners to the night of Francke’s murder, where he was stabbed to death next to his car outside of his office in Salem. The murder was ruled a “car burglary gone wrong,” even though the suspect didn’t steal his watch, wallet, or any money. The murderer did, however, steal his laptop and floppy disks--just before Francke planned to present evidence of endemic corruption and an organized criminal element within his department. 
    Authorities convicted low-level meth dealer Frank Gable of killing Francke. He was sentenced to 30 years in jail. Phil Stanford, along with Francke’s brothers, Pat and Kevin, believe Gable is innocent. The podcast gives these three compelling and compassionate characters a platform to argue why they believe that the Gable arrest was a coverup--and why the real truth would implicate powerful figures in Oregon. 
    The Story is Not Over
    Frank Gable was released from prison after his 30-year sentence in June 2019. However, the State of Oregon plans to appeal his release and put him back behind bars. Gable’s defense attorney, Lisa C. Hay, is presenting a strong argument for Gable’s innocence. Meanwhile, Lauren, Phil, Pat, and Kevin continue to hunt down the truth. 
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon – become a Patron! 
    Podcast Recommendations: 
    Next Question with Katie Couric  
    Ridiculous History
    Done Disappeared 
    Find Lauren at:
    Personal Twitter: @BrightPacheco
    Podcast Twitter: @MurderinOregon
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  • Mary Payne is joined by Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Paige St. John of the Los Angeles Times to discuss the Man In The Window podcast.
    The Man In The Window is a podcast that recounts the story of the Golden State killer and delves into the people around the accused killer, Joseph DeAngelo.
    Paige was assigned to the Golden State Killer case the day Joseph DeAngelo was arrested. Paige shares with Mary Payne that while she was doing background on the story, she began to realize that the victims were being treated unfairly, and in some cases, were silenced. This led to a lack of public and personal acknowledgment of the true trauma that the victims experienced. Mary Payne is shocked to learn that at the time these crimes took place, rape was only considered a property crime and the punishment was 3 years at most; half of the offenders walked out of the court and back onto the street. 
    Giving Voice to the Victims
    Paige makes a point of talking to the male victims and highlighting the ones that were willing to talk. Male victims weren’t acknowledged in the media but there were 29 of them who were bound and left in bed, where they were taunted by the rapist for hours while their wives/companions were raped and tortured. In some police reports the male victims were categorized as a witness. Paige is currently uncovering suggestions that in some of the attacks the male was the original target, in order to “steal the honor” or harm certain men he’d had altercations with.
    Locks Don’t Stop Criminals
    Paige explains the importance of knowing your neighbors and how, while she was interviewing people, it amazed her to find out how little people knew about the person they lived next door to. This leads Mary Payne and her to discuss how different times are now compared to how they were during the time of these crimes. These crimes took place when a sense of a community was more relevant than it is in present times. Paige believes that it is good to develop a sense of community and expressed that locks only slow down a break in but for true safety, it is better for a person to have eyes and a sense of awareness.
    Who is Bonnie Ueltzen?
    A person of interest in understanding the Golden State Killer is Bonnie Ueltzen who was the former teenage fiancé of Joseph DeAngelo. She is significant because in multiple crimes the accused killer called out her name or uttered phrases like, “I hate you, Bonnie”. Bonnie had previously never given an interview due to the value of her privacy. However, after much persistence, Paige was able to get her to agree to speak aloud. There were things that she'd never told anyone, for instance, the time her fiancé came to her window with a gun to abduct her. Bonnie's father was able to talk Joseph down and leave but they never spoke about it again although it continued to affect Bonnie throughout her life. It had only been in recent therapy sessions just prior to Paige’s interview with her, that Bonnie had begun to discuss the trauma she experienced.
    What is Next
    Paige is finishing up the Man In The Window story. She is looking at the uses of DNA and the cold cases that it is closing. She is looking more at the declining health of Joseph and the fact that he is 74 years old. There is a fear that if he dies prior to the trial, there will be questions left unanswered.
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon - become a Patron! 
    Podcast Recommendations: 
    My Favorite Murder
    Crime Town Providence
    Find Paige at:
    Man in the Window podcast 
    Twitter - @paigestjohn
    LinkedIn - Paige St.John
    I’ll be gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara
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  • Mary Payne is in New York City with actor, singer, and producer John Hill for this episode to discuss the true crime podcast, The Ballad of Billy Balls.
    The Ballad of Billy Balls is a podcast that tells the story of musician Billy Balls’ death. The podcast is hosted by iO Tillett Wright - the transgender child of Billy’s girlfriend, Rebecca Wright. Mary Payne and John go into a detailed conversation around Rebecca and iO. They discuss addiction, eating disorders, Rebecca’s personality, their living situations, and more. 
    John and Mary Payne work through the heavy question, did the cops target Billy or was he simply just shot by a cop? They have their own theories on what may have happened. Tune in to listen.
    Achieving Closure
    The Ballad of Billy Balls story concludes with Billy’s body being found in a potter’s field in New York, only identified by a number. Mary Payne and John ponder whether Rebecca was able to achieve closure with finding out what really happened with Billy. They discuss the idea of closure and what is it really?
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon - become a Patron! 
    Podcast Recommendations
    The Bitch Bible
    That’s So Retrograde
    Find John Hill at
    The Feels on Radio Andy
    Instagram: johnarthurhill
    Twitter: @thebossofyou
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  • The suicide of Christian Andreacchio has been left a mystery for many years. The host and producer of Culpable join Mary Payne to discuss in depth.
    On February 26, 2014, young Christian Andreacchio was found dead of an apparent suicide in Meridian, Mississippi. However, there is mystery and speculation on whether his death was actually a suicide or whether he was murdered. Culpable, a true crime podcast, tells the mysterious story of Christian’s death and shares the complexities with the investigation of his death. Host Dennis Cooper and Producer, Mark Minnery, join Mary Payne to take a deep dive into the podcast. 
    Questioning the Death
    Dennis and Mark explain in detail how they got involved in the case in 2018. The two share what went into their investigation of Christian’s death including the help his mother, Rae, gave them through documentation and timelines she had put together. The three discuss various aspects of the case, questioning how the Meridian Police Department could believe Christian’s friends and assume it was an open-and-shut case. They touch on Christian’s girlfriend, Whitley Goodman, and the role she may or may not have played in his death as well as the supposed “Gun Night” that took place earlier that evening.
    The Culpable team discusses their relationship with Sheila Wysocki, the Private Investigator hired by the Andreacchio family and host of the podcast Without Warning, and her role of recreating a 3D model of the bathroom where Christian was found dead utilizing forensics technology. 
    A Reward for Information
    There are so many questions surrounding the death of Christian. There is currently a reward being offered up to $100,000 to anyone that can bring an arrest and conviction to this case. This reward is sponsored by the Culpable team at Black Mountain Media, as well as their partner Tenderfoot.
    Will there be a Season Two of Culpable with another case and story? Dennis shares the answer at the end of the episode.
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon - become a Patron! 
    Podcast Recommendations
    The Joe Rogan Experience
    Planet Money
    The Reply All
    How I Built This
    Up and Vanished
    Live and Die in LA
    S Town
    Find Culpable at
    Facebook/Instagram/Twitter: @culpablepodcast
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  • Mary Payne welcomes actor Doug Budin back for another Payne in the Pod episode as they review and discuss Dan Taberski’s newest podcast Running From Cops. 
    Running from Cops is about the longest-running reality TV show in America, COPS. Dan investigates the show and the impact it has had on police culture across American towns and cities. 
    Mary Payne and Doug ponder who really has the final say when it comes to what happens to some individuals on the show. Who holds the most power the actual police or the producers? They give evidence from the Running From Cops podcast to back up their assertions. 
    They then touch on the not-so-great side of the COPS show; everything from people signing releases, people being filmed on possibly their worst day, and civil rights arguments that have taken place over African American chases. 
    Would Doug and Mary Payne recommend Running From Cops as one that needs to be listened too or not? Listen to find out!
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon - become a Patron!
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  • The Clearing is a podcast that covers the story of a woman who put the pieces together and figured out her father was a serial killer.

    Forty-year-old April Balascio uncovered several stories, put the pieces together of her childhood and realized her father, Edward Wayne Edwards, was a serial killer. In 2009, she turned him in to the cops and didn’t talk to anyone about the story until 2016.

    The Clearing podcast host, Josh Dean who is also a journalist and author, joins Mary Payne and explains the journey that April went through from having the suspicion that her father might be a serial killer to unraveling the puzzle pieces that ultimately led her to turn her own father in.

    Josh reveals that this story was easy to tell and capture in podcast form due to the mere fact that Edward had recorded everything that he did. Josh speculates that this was due to Edward’s narcissism and the grandiose view he had of himself.

    They discuss the various murders and the coincidences that April discovered prior to turning Edward into the police. After much investigation, Edward eventually confessed to two double murders and the murder of a man nicknamed “Danny Boy.”

    Mary Payne and Josh talk about the punishment that Edward wanted for his crimes and the lengths he went to in order to achieve it. Was he wanting to continue to manipulate the system the way he had his whole life or was it him accepting his punishment? Josh makes a convincing argument for the outcome being exactly what Edward wanted. Be sure to go and listen to The Clearing!

    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon - become a Patron!

    Podcast Recommendations:
    S Town
    Bear Brook
    In the Dark
    The Daily
    Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend

    Find Josh Dean at:
    Instagram/Twitter: @joshdean66

    Find April Balascio at:
    Twitter: @BalascioApril
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  • The story told on the podcast Over My Dead Body: Joe Exotic is a story so crazy it is hard to believe that it is real. In this episode of Payne in the Pod, host Robert Moor, joins Mary Payne.
    Joe Exotic is a gay polygamous zookeeper in rural Oklahoma who bred and rescued lions, tigers, ligers, and exotic big cats. He traveled with these big cats and put on shows where he would charge visitors to pet the baby cubs. Carole Baskin, the owner of a big cat sanctuary in Florida, became one of his enemies and is who he is convicted of hiring two men to kill.R
    obert takes Mary Payne through his experience of spending time with Joe.  He includes everything from his time at the zoo, to extreme things he caught him saying on tape and to his current trial. Was it trauma in Joe’s life and his self-image that led him to spiral out of control or was it simply his boosted ego?
    Carole Baskin of Florida
    Mary Payne and Robert then touch on Carole Baskin. She is a woman who ran away at a young age, lived fairly rough for a few years, was in an out of horrible relationships, was married three times, and one of her husbands randomly disappears. Carole did not think that Joe Exotic was treating his animals with respect, but the two have many similarities. Were Carole and Joe a match made in heaven to be enemies?
    Throughout the crazy story surrounding Joe Exotic, the craziest part may be what ultimately brought him down and lead him to jail. Robert and Mary Payne discuss the irony of the situation and updates to the other characters in the story.
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon - become a Patron!
    Podcast Recommendations
    In The Dark-Season 2
    The Butterfly Effect with Jon Ronson
    Escaping NXIVM
    Find Robert Moor at:
    Twitter: @robertmoor_
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  • An unidentified man who went by the name Sixty-Six Garage had been kept alive via life support in a nursing home for 15 years when Joanne Faryon learned about him. Her podcast, Room 20, covers her time with him.
    After her mother’s death, LA Times’ investigative journalist and reporter, Joanne, began reporting about end-of-life topics. During that time, she was researching the number of people that were kept alive in a vegetative state which is what brought her to the nursing home that Sixty-Six Garage resided in. Joanne shares with Mary Payne how she came to know Sixty-Six Garage, the mission she began to figure out exactly who he was and to connect with his family, and how she started Room 20.
    Visiting Those in Nursing Home
    Later in their discussion, Mary Payne and Joanne go into the story of one of Sixty-Six Garage’s roommates in Room 20 named Omar. Omar had been in an accident where he was run over by multiple vehicles and was in bad shape. Joanne happened to be visiting Sixty-Six Garage one day when Omar moved and began his recovery. Was it Joanne just happening to be in the right place at the right time? This story of Omar prompts the ladies to talk about individuals who are being kept alive who have few or no visitors at all. They ask the hard question if we are keeping people alive should we have people to sit and visit with them.
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon - become a Patron!
    Podcast Recommendations
    In the Dark
    The Dead Drink First
    Escaping NXIVM
    Someone Knows Something
    Find Joanne Faryon and Room 20 at:
    Twitter: @JoanneFaryon
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  • More than twenty years since the death of her brother, Confronting: OJ Simpson podcast host, Kim Goldman sits down with Mary Payne to chat about her experience.
    If you were alive in 1995, it is likely that you, at some point, caught a glimpse or heard bits and pieces about OJ Simpson’s murder trial. OJ Simpson was accused of killing his ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ron Goldman. Twenty-four years later, Ron’s sister, Kim Goldman, has finally decided to talk about the trial and her experience during it in her podcast Confronting: OJ Simpson.
    For this episode, Mary Payne and Kim discuss all the various players in the trial that she talked to and who declined to be a part of her podcast. Notably, Kim sits down with two of the jurors that ultimately found OJ Simpson not guilty. She shares with Mary Payne that she was apprehensive about going into the meeting with them. This leads Mary Payne and Kim to talk about the sequester of the jurors that took place, as well as some of the outings they had. They question how ethical some of the events that took place were.
    Kim shares with Mary Payne the one main player from the trial that declined her an interview for her podcast and they discuss his role in the trial and his motives.
    Mary Payne and Kim also talk about the defense’s Private Investigator, Pat McKenna, who believes wholeheartedly that OJ Simpson is not guilty.
    While OJ was the topic for the first season of Confronting, Kim is hoping to cover more stories that have had a great social impact on society. Mary Payne and her ponder possible topics for future seasons of the podcast.
    Catch up on all of the Payne in the Pod episodes, here. And don’t forget, Payne in the Pod is on Patreon - become a Patron!
    Podcast Recommendations
    Juicy Scoop
    Forty Thrive
    Sex Ed the Musical
    Inside of You
    Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
    Find Confronting OJ at:
    Facebook/Instagram/Twitter: @KimEGoldman
    Facebook/Instagram/Twitter: @confrontingpod
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