Эпизоды
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How do we regulate our impulsive emotions, resist temptation, break bad habits, and come up to our best potential - and why do we sometimes run short? Is willpower anything like muscle power?
In this episode, we welcome prominent social psychologist Roy F. Baumeister, who has published some 700 scientific works, including 40 books. A recipient of many awards, in 2013 Roy received the highest award given by the Association for Psychological Science, the William James Fellow award, in recognition of his lifetime achievements.
Roy has studied major aspects of the self, the pros and cons of self-esteem, and why it is so hard to do mentally effortful tasks, like studying long hours for a math exam. He is especially known for his work on willpower, self-control, ego depletion, and the dark side of self esteem — how these factors relate to human morality and life success, and can even trigger interpersonal violence.
Talking Points
0:00 - Intro 04:44 - Is mental effort (willpower) analogous to a muscle?09:32 - Eating glucose can help restore mental energy. 20:50 - “Ego Depletion” is another useful analogy. 24:32 - The Practical Implications of Baumeister’s Work.34:27 - Practice can make mental effort easier. 45:24 - Is Free Will an illusion? A scientific view. 54:46 - Self-esteem without achievement is a trap.Links
— Website and Social Media —
Website: https://bernardbaars.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BernardJBaars
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BernardJBaars/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjbaars/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BernardBaarsOnConsciousness
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baarslab/?hl=en
— Roy F. Baumeister —
Personal Website: https://roybaumeister.com/
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Baumeister
Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ShSEUuoAAAAJ&hl=en
Ted Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwlDLe6O7NE
Books on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/stores/Roy-F.-Baumeister/author/B001H6IAJY?ref=ap_rdr&store_ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true
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Neurobiologist Stuart Firestein, one of the world's leading experts on olfaction, joins Bernard Baars to discuss the similarities and surprising differences of smell and taste in relation to vision, hearing and somatosensory systems, like touch. The olfactory system presents us with alternative views of how sensory stimuli are parsed in the brain and how we integrate those into some sort of conscious worldview.
Dr. Stuart Firestein specializes in the olfactory system ⎯ why and how our brains and noses sense smell. Stuart is the former chair of Columbia University's Department of Biological Sciences and a neurobiology professor, where his laboratory studies the vertebrate olfactory system, possibly the best chemical detector on the face of the planet.
Stuart is devoted to the history, evolution, and future of science. Author of "Ignorance: How it Drives Science" and "Failure: Why Science is so Successful” (OUP), his books cast science as an unending quest to illuminate ignorance and failure as an essential component in that process.
Talking Points
0:00 - Intro3:59 - The Ups and Downs of Consciousness in Science 12:30 - Stuart’s Journey from Theater to Neuroscience19:14 - Is Olfaction an Idiosyncratic or Unique Brain System?25:30 - The Connection Between Smell, Memory & Emotion34:37 - The Immune System Recognizes a Repertoire of Molecules Just Like the Olfactory System42:51 - The Regenerative Capabilities of Olfactory Neurons51:48 - Are Olfactory Receptors Like Other Chemoreceptors?01:02:34 - The Integration of Olfactory Stimuli into a Chemical Panorama01:10:24 - Is Olfaction a Low- or High-Dimensional Input System?01:16:56 - How to Improve Science Learning01:22:25 - The Value of Ignorance and Failure in ScienceProducer: Natalie Geld
Links
— Website and Social Media —
Website: https://bernardbaars.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BernardJBaars
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BernardJBaars/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjbaars/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BernardBaarsOnConsciousness
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baarslab/?hl=en
— Stuart Firestein —
Website: http://stuartfirestein.com/
Columbia University: https://www.biology.columbia.edu/people/firestein
Ted Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq0_zGzSc8g
Books:
- Ignorance: How It Drives Science: Buy at Amazon
- Failure: Why Science Is So Successful: Buy at Amazon
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Пропущенные эпизоды?
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In this episode, we examine Human Consciousness and AI, and particularly the popular idea that AI will become conscious at some point.
Because conscious brains are the product of enormous periods of evolution and environmental conditions that keep changing in basic ways, the popular idea that machine consciousness is just around the corner is questioned by Bernard Baars. But very important ethical and practical questions are already emerging today.
Social media has trouble distinguishing between human messages and bots, and we are already seeing AI being used in armed drones in a major European war in the Ukraine. All kinds of important ethical and practical questions are already facing the world. In some ways, this is like the early days of nuclear weapons - people around the world are wondering what the new technologies will bring. What does the future hold?
AI technology is developing faster than most of us expected. The worldwide web has triggered a great information explosion that continues in wave after wave. Historically, information explosions are often very disruptive, as in the rise of the printing press, of radio and television, and now the spread of intelligent computers. Human beings need time to adjust to fast changes.
So today, we will discuss the future of Artificial Intelligence in relation to human consciousness, including major ethical questions raised by philosophers and others. We also discuss some of the latest promising, and positive, scientific advances in AI.
Our special guest is Dr. Susan Schneider, Founding Director of the Center for the Future Mind at Florida Atlantic University, where she also holds the William F. Dietrich Distinguished Professorship. She is co-director of the MPCR Lab at FAU’s new Gruber Sandbox, a large facility which builds AI systems drawing from neuroscience research and philosophical developments.
Susan recently completed a three year project with NASA on the future of intelligence. She now works with the United States Congress on AI policy. Susan is also an author, and her current book “Artificial You'' discusses the philosophical implications of AI, and, in particular, the enterprise of “mind design.”
Also joining us today is postdoctoral fellow Rachel St. Clair, the founder and CEO of Simuli Inc., whose passion and goal is to help build beneficial AGI.
Talking Points
0:00 - Intro3:07 - How Our Understanding of AI is Changing Rapidly10:47 - Urgent Ethical Questions about AI-controlled Weapons16:20 - Dan Dennett's Position on Treating Humanoid AI as Counterfeits19:50 - Can Computers Emulate Biological Brains?30:58 - Science and Philosophy Use the Same Words with Very Different Meanings.36:23 - Scientifically, the Cortex is the Organ of Consciousness.46:34 - Is Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) possible? How Do We Build AGI Safely?52:44 - Does "Conscious" AGI Need a Global Workspace Architecture?01:03:53 - Beyond Mind-Body Debates01:13:38 - Advances in Artificial Intelligence01:19:42 - Some Risks of Augmenting Human Abilities01:23:20 - Thought Manipulation, Invasive Surveillance and Mass Deception01:27:10 - Closing StatementsLinks
— Website and Social Media —
Website: https://bernardbaars.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BernardJBaars
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BernardJBaars/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjbaars/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BernardBaarsOnConsciousness
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baarslab/?hl=en
— Susan Schneider —
Personal: https://schneiderwebsite.com/index.html
Center for the Future Mind: https://www.fau.edu/future-mind/
Susan's Latest Book "Artificial You": https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691180144/artificial-you
Florida Atlantic University Profile: https://www.fau.edu/artsandletters/philosophy/susan-schneider/index/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/drsueschneider
Center for the Future Mind Twitter: https://twitter.com/CenFutureMind
— Rachel St. Clair —
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelaileenstclair/
Rachel's Startup Simuli, Inc.: https://www.simuli.ai/
MPCR Lab Profile: https://mpcrlab.com/people/Rachel-St-Clair/
Producer: Nat Geld
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The home of the late Nobel Laureate, Gerald Edelman, is the setting for this elevated discussion on human consciousness. In this episode, Bernie is joined by Gerald's son and neuroscientist David Edelman, developmental neuropsychiatrist Dr. Jay Giedd, and professional magician Mark Mitton.
What level of biology is relevant to the study of conscious processing? Is it a matter of molecules? Or cells? Or networks?
Talking Points
0:00 – The Biological Level of the Conscious Brain6:28 – Like Evolution, Consciousness is Highly Adaptive 12:27 – Like Magic, Inductive Science is Highly Adaptive and Full of Surprises18:05 – How Magic Plays With The Limited Capacity of the Conscious Brain23:18 – The Hippocampus and Amygdala are Two Evolved Structures of the Brain28:39 – Deception and Self Deception Create Mismatches Between Reality and Expectations36:25 – The Immune System and the Brain Are Both Highly AdaptableLinks
— Website and Social Media —
Show Notes: Ep #24 Full Summary
Website: https://bernardbaars.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BernardJBaars
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BernardJBaars/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjbaars/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OnConsciousnesswithBernardBaars
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baarslab/?hl=en
— David Edelman, PhD —
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-edelman-b5b16315/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/doctorocto
Elsevier: https://www.elsevier.com/connect/contributors/david-edelman-phd
— Jay Giedd, PhD —
University of California, San Diego: https://profiles.ucsd.edu/jay.giedd
Doximity: https://www.doximity.com/pub/jay-giedd-md
Brain and Behavior Foundation: https://www.bbrfoundation.org/about/people/jay-n-giedd-md-0
— Mark Mitton —
Personal Website: http://markmitton.com/index.html
Twitter: https://twitter.com/mark_mitton?lang=en
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-mitton-4204696/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markmittonmagic/?hl=en
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We think of the cortex in terms of anatomical regions, but the cortex works as a whole. Static, gross anatomical divisions are superseded by the dynamical connectome of cortex.
This holistic viewpoint is detailed in the recent paper in the Journal Frontiers in Psychology: Consciousness Research, titled "Global Workspace Theory & Prefrontal Cortex: Recent Developments" (Baars, Geld & Kozma, 2021), which we discuss in this episode.
A wide range of experimental and theoretical studies in the field of consciousness emphasize the complex and rapid interactivity of numerous regions and connectivities in the cerebral cortex. That dynamical view of the cortex should give us pause about proposing dichotomies that may not be in evidence. This paper aims to clarify some empirical questions that have been raised, and review evidence that the prefrontal and posterior regions of the brain support dynamic global workspace functions, in agreement with several other authors.
Our special guest for Episode 23 is Dr. Robert Kozma, professor and director of the Center for Large-Scale Integrated Optimization and Networks (CLION) at the FedEx Institute of Technology, and professor of Mathematics in the Department of Mathematical Sciences at the University of Memphis. Ilian Daskalov, our student interviewer, joins us to explore this recent paper on GWT and Prefrontal Cortex.
To follow along with this discussion, here is the link to the source paper: Baars, B. J., Geld, N., & Kozma, R. (2021). Global Workspace Theory (GWT) and Prefrontal Cortex: Recent Developments. Frontiers in Psychology, 12, 5163. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.749868
Talking Points0:00 – Intro4:04 – Divisions between PfC and other neuronal regions tend to be misleading.5:57 – Global Workspace Theory: An Overview10:23 – The Role of Metaphors in Science15:37 – Consciousness is the Dynamic Core of the Brain.21:44 – Unifying Principles of the Global Workspace “Family” of Theories30:59 – What is “Binding” and “Broadcasting” in the Brain?34:39 – What did Raccah et al. (2021) Get Wrong about GWT?43:22 – What is Neuropercolation Theory?58:12 – Conscious and Unconscious Metacognition01:07:07 – The Dynamical Connectome of Cortex01:12:01 – Functional Rich Clubs (FRICs) by Deco et al. (2021): Part of GW “Family”01:17:30 – Final ThoughtsLinks & Publications— Website and Social Media —
Episode Summary: https://bernardbaars.com/episode-23
Website:https://bernardbaars.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BernardJBaars
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BernardJBaars/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjbaars/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OnConsciousnesswithBernardBaars
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baarslab/?hl=en
— Robert Kozma, Ph.D. —
University of Memphis: https://www.memphis.edu/msci/people/rkozma.php
CLION: https://www.memphis.edu/clion/
IEEE: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/author/37284339400
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kozma
Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Nddbg2gAAAAJ&hl=en
PubMed Publications: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Kozma%2C%20Robert
Neuropercolation Theory (PDF): https://escholarship.org/content/qt2qn4778j/qt2qn4778j.pdf
Link to paper by Deco et al. (2021): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01003-6
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“Can consciousness be seen as the key to understanding our surroundings and organizing our actions?” — David Edelman, PhD, Neuroscientist and Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College
Ep 22: Consciousness Has an Integrative Function with Neuroscientist, David Edelman
Episode 22 of our podcast On Consciousness brings back neuroscientist David Edelman, who graciously hosted this discussion in the home of his late father, Nobel Laureate Gerald M. Edelman. Some have argued that consciousness is only a side effect of the brain, but from an evolutionary point of view, major adaptations result from intense genetic pressures, which are causal. The exact nature of that causality is still under debate. One evolutionary function of consciousness is likely to be sensory and action (motor) integration. It seems that consciousness is needed anytime two sensory events have to be combined, like the sound of a bird and the sight of that same bird, or the sound of a singer and her lip movements. Even this sentence requires conscious involvement to combine the beginning with its ending. Consciousness has an integrative function.
Talking Points0:00 – Intro by Nat Geld0:53 – Is awareness just a side effect of the brain?5:56 – Does consciousness occur with a delay?9:13 – Resolving Ambiguity in the World12:59 – From Uncertainty to Predictability: A major function of consciousness.18:33 – Fine-tuning the Senses: Perceptual learning.SummaryControversies Over CausalityBernie and David mull over the causal role of consciousness in the brain. Bernie mentions that Darwin’s public advocate, Thomas Henry Huxley, claimed that consciousness might only be a side effect of the brain in the way that the steam whistle of a locomotive can be considered to be a side effect of the heating of the giant steam vessel. But this seems to violate the physics of the conservation of energy — the steam vessel is, in fact, driving the train whistle. Still, the notion of consciousness as a side effect continues to be debated in philosophy.
David then suggests that one causal role for consciousness may be a retrospective glance at sensory information in the very brief time after visual neurons are activated.
David suggests that consciousness may involve a retrospective assessment as opposed to anything else. Bernie agrees with David’s point, although it depends on the predictability of the input. When our senses encounter an unpredictable event, consciousness is needed to make the unpredictable, predictable. For biologically important events, like avoiding dangers or keeping your child from harm, consciousness is even more deeply involved.
Can consciousness be seen as the key to understanding our surroundings and organizing our actions?David’s father, Gerald Edelman, was a famous biologist who thought deeply about consciousness, and wondered about the philosophical question of the causality of consciousness. Bernie offers that awareness is not only useful for interpretation of the world, but also for associative creativity. In general, consciousness is needed to reduce uncertainty and increase predictability.
Bernie and David then examine some of the classical experiments on integrative sensory processing. The cognitive scientist David Eagleman has done pioneering work on synesthesia, the ability some people have to link words and numbers with specific colors or sounds or feeling tones — a kind of 'merging of sensations'. Synesthesia is one aspect of artistic creativity that seems to require conscious involvement. Bernie suggests that consciousness has a kind of a pointing role, that allows us to emphasize important events in the world, and to communicate those events to each other.
In the final moments of the episode, Bernie and David agree that the conscious brain is remarkably adaptable to an enormous range of new and biologically important events. This “consciously-mediated adaptability” clearly disappears when we do not pay attention or get distracted, or lose alertness.
The conscious brain appears to have major bio-cultural functions.
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.comAPPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"BiosDavid Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Department of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017.
He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble. -
"Subjectivity and consciousness are the two main mysteries that science is still faced with. I'm an optimist. I believe that in the next half a century we might make progress on understanding consciousness."
- Stanley A. Klein, psychophysicist, professor of Vision Science and Optometry at the University of California, Berkeley and a member of the Berkeley Visual Processing Laboratory.
Episode 21: The Duet of Physics & Psychology with Psychophysicist, Stanley Klein
In episode 21 of our podcast “On Consciousness” we welcome psychophysicist Stanley Klein, Professor of Vision Science and Optometry at the University of California, Berkeley. Stan’s major area of research is neuropsychology and neurotechnology, a field of science that studies the body and mind through the nervous system by electronics and mechanisms. Stan was a Consulting Editor for Attention, Perception, & Psychophysics, a publication of the Psychonomic Society. In this conversation Bernie and Stanley discuss the links between physics & psychology, Galileo’s contributions, and how science grows.
Talking Points 0:00 – Intro 6:17 – Stan Klein’s academic and professional journey 14:50 – Does the brain enable the conscious mind? 22:16 – How Galileo helped to found physics. 32:06 – How do we agree on the nature of nature? 39:15 – The growth of physics 45:38 – Science grows through honest conversations. 53:50 – Stan Klein on the future of scienceSummaryHow do you think about subjectivity?This friendly conversation is opened by Nat Geld, our podcast producer. She asks Stan how he thinks about subjectivity. Stan’s optimistic view is that within the next 40 years or so, science might be able to understand subjectivity and consciousness.
Bernie and Stan start a dialogue about his professional journey. As a physics undergraduate at Cal Tech, Stan had the honor of publishing a paper with Richard Feynman, the great physicist. After earning his PhD from Brandeis University in 1967, Stan taught at Claremont Colleges and finally arrived at the School of Optometry at UC Berkeley, where he has been since 1987.
Consciousness and the BrainStan asks, "Is consciousness located exclusively in the brain?"
Bernie says, “Consciousness emerges in an enormous universe of nature, but only in a very small part of that universe. All the conscious species we know are animals living in the outer crust of planet earth. Empirically, we know nothing else. These days, this brutal fact tends to be forgotten because we have so many speculative ideas that tend to confuse us about the basics. But in science, we always need to start from what we know for sure.
To the best of our knowledge today, the animal brain is the home of the conscious mind.”
Scientific definitions change over time.For Galileo, gravity meant the speed of wooden blocks sliding down angled planes. For Newton, gravity meant the attractive force of planets in orbit around the sun. Finally, for Einstein, gravity meant the influence of time and space on the apparent acceleration of objects in space.
There is both great continuity between Galileo, Newton and Einstein, and at the same time, there is a constantly evolving concept of gravity.
The concept of consciousness is also evolving with every new discovery.Stan suggests that the big revolution in physics occurred in the 1920s with the discovery that a photon can be a wave or a particle. Einstein passionately opposed this idea, and tried to disprove it for the rest of his life. That debate still continues today.
Bernie then mentions that new ideas and discoveries are always hard to accept, and they usually require a period of debate and adaptation. The idea of the conscious brain is now going through just such a period. But of course both sides tell stories from their own points of view. One side explains how the Vatican unreasonably refused to accept Galileo, and the other side explains how Galileo unreasonably refused to accept the Vatican. This is a perfectly normal debate in the history of science. There are two sides, not just one.
In the episode's final moments, Ilian talks with Stan about what he believes to be the future of science. "Science needs to focus on climate change," says Stan. "I believe that in the next half a century we might make progress on understanding consciousness."
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.comAPPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"BiosStanley A. Klein is an American psychophysicist. He is a Professor of Vision Science and Optometry at the University of California, Berkeley and a member of the Berkeley Visual Processing Laboratory. He was a consulting editor for Attention, Perception, & Psychophysics, a publication of the Psychosomatic Society which promotes the communication of scientific research in psychology and allied sciences. His major area of research has been neurotechnology, a field of science that studies the body and mind through the nervous system by electronics and mechanisms. He was the co-chair for the SPIE (an international society of the science and application of light) meetings on human vision. Klein has authored and co-authored numerous papers on visual perception in the human brain.
Ilian Daskalov is a senior undergraduate student at University of California, Irvine where he studies Cognitive Science. He holds an associate degree with honors from San Diego Mesa College. His research interests include sleep, psychedelics, and artificial intelligence. He is passionate about communicating science and promoting critical thinking.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble. -
The brain seeks meaning and patterns. It would be very adaptive to do so in nature, because you need to know how to predict danger and to develop social ties. So our brains are very good at recognizing patterns, but also at creating them, even when they're not there.
- Dr. Jay Giedd, Chair of Child Psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital - San Diego and Director of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, Professor of Psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine, and Professor in the Department of Population, Family and Reproductive Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
Episode 20: Neural Traffic Flow in the Conscious Brain with Dr. Jay Giedd
In this lighthearted conversation, Bernard Baars welcomes returning guest, developmental neuropsychiatrist Dr. Jay Giedd, Professor of Psychiatry at UC San Diego School of Medicine. Their discussion touches on the nuances of unconscious and conscious states, the relationship between dreams and waking moments, and what the recent science tells us about different brain specializations.
Talking Points0:00 – How does consciousness emerge?8:46 – Ways to study dreams17:05 – Conscious truth and fantasy22:57 – Brain connectivity: The street map and the traffic flow29:19 – Clarifying the conceptsSummaryHow does consciousness emerge?Jay Giedd shares with Bernie Baars one of the utmost questions on his mind as of late, namely, at what point do we cross the threshold from being unconscious to being conscious?
They examine how sleep studies and improving brain imaging technology can help us understand the nature of consciousness, and Jay considers the notion that emergence of awareness is caused not only by the quantity of brain neurons, but also by the types of connections.
To Sleep, Perchance to DreamThe duo discuss dream content, and Jay reflects on his initial training as a Freudian psychoanalyst, part of which included keeping a dream journal. He makes the observation that although the dreaming mind can create a narrative where the laws of physics and biology are defied, our dreams are nonetheless connected to our day-to-day activities. Bernie suggests that one possible hypothesis for this phenomenon is the cortex trying to find meaning, even with random input.
Sensory Perception and Conscious Beliefs: True or False?Jay highlights the fact that perception and cognition do not always accurately represent reality. In terms of increasing our chances of survival, it may be more important that our perception and pattern recognition skills actually work, rather than how accurate they are. Jay also emphasizes that over time, the physiology underlying conscious signals might have been strengthened by providing humans the ability to cooperate and better understand one another, thus further increasing our odds of survival.
How neural traffic flow is measured and the limitations of our scientific tools.Bernie makes a distinction between the functional and the anatomical connectivity of the brain. Jay reinforces this by explaining how neural traffic flow can be measured. Scientific tools have greatly improved, but there are still many puzzles that are unsolved.
In the final moments of their conversation, Jay shares his belief that one day, consciousness will not seem incomprehensible, although he acknowledges that we still have a long way to go. He emphasizes the immense complexity of the developing brain and the emergence of consciousness.
“Good science always raises more questions than answers,” concludes Dr. Giedd. “And consciousness is a great example of that.”
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.comAPPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"BiosDr. Jay Giedd is the Chair of Child Psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital - San Diego and Director of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. Dr. Giedd is also a Professor of Psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine, and Professor in the Department of Population, Family and Reproductive Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Dr. Giedd was chief of the Section on Brain Imaging, Child Psychiatry Branch of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). His widely published research and expertise evaluates how the child's brain develops in health and illness, the factors that influence development and how to optimize treatments to take advantage of the child's changing brain. Jay and his award winning work were featured in the PBS 2 part series "Brains on Trial" hosted by Alan Alda. Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble. -
Studies show that, especially for young children, if you prematurely wake them up and deprive them of that much needed sleep, it becomes detrimental to their proper cognitive development further down in life. I just wonder about the amount of damage we're doing to kids with 7:20 AM school start times.
- Ilian Daskalov, senior undergraduate student at University of California, Irvine
Ep 19: The Sleeping Brain: Better Than a Cup of Coffee
This episode of the Podcast On Consciousness riffs on the discussion with Bernard Baars in Episode 18 on sleep, waking, connectivity, and global workspace functions. Alea Skwara, PhD, UC Davis, and Ilian Daskalov, a cognitive neuroscience upper division student from UC Irvine, pull at the threads of conscious and unconscious states in this thought-provoking discussion to unravel the topics of consciousness and sleep.
Talking Points0:00 - Intro2:12 – How do we differentiate between conscious and unconscious states?4:59 – The limitations of our vocabulary8:11 – The sleeping brain12:12 – Sleep in modern-day society17:49 – How to improve sleep qualitySummaryWhat differentiates conscious and non-conscious states? Alea explains that depending on the context of the conversation and various definitions, when talking about sleep, consciousness can be described as the ability to integrate information in a unitary and cohesive way. Ilian and Alea talk about how limitations in our vocabulary may restrict our understanding of consciousness.
Their dialogue evolves into the topic of sleep. Alea shares a personal lucid dreaming experience, where different levels of conscious awareness made her realize that she was actually in a dream state.
Ilian explores his interest in the practical side of having a good night’s sleep, and shares details about the book by neuroscientist Matthew Walker, titled “Why We Sleep.” He shares Walkers’ disappointment at how society has glorified the sacrifice of sleep for various other activities, and some inherent consequences to this.
In the final moments of the conversation, Ilian discusses some of the tools that he uses to optimize his sleep routine, emphasizing how the regularity of our sleep schedule is as important as the length of the sleep itself. Surprisingly, viewing early morning light is crucial to maintaining a regular circadian rhythm, which, in turn, is essential for one’s overall well-being and longevity.
Cited Books“Why We Sleep” by Matthew Walker - https://www.sleepdiplomat.com/author
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.comAPPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"BiosAlea Skwara is a PhD candidate at the University of California, Davis where she studies cognitive neuroscience. Her primary research focuses on compassion and responses to suffering. The main question that Alea is currently trying to answer is whether meditational practices can expand the range of people that a person can feel compassion for.
Ilian Daskalov is a senior undergraduate student at University of California, Irvine where he studies Cognitive Science. He holds an associate degree with honors from San Diego Mesa College. His research interests include sleep, psychedelics, and artificial intelligence. He is passionate about communicating science and promoting critical thinking.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble. -
Global Workspace Theory is probably oversimplified, just like the Newtonian theory of the planets and their orbits. And that's what framework theories usually do. You don't want to go to them for the details, you want to go to them for the overview. And Global Workspace is really an overview.
– Dr. Bernard Baars, originator of Global Workspace Theory and Global Workspace Dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness.
Ep 18: Global Workspace Functions, the Brain and Consciousness: Connectivity, Waking, & Sleep - Part 3
In Episode 18 of our podcast On Consciousness with Bernard Baars, the third in a three-part series on GWT Origins & Evidence, we continue to explore the links between cutting edge brain evidence and how that supports or updates our understanding of consciousness and the Global Workspace Theory.
Talking Points
0:00 – Intro and Recap of Episodes 17 & 18 (Parts I & II)6:40 – A Discussion on Sleep, Dreaming, Waking, and Consciousness10:35 – Summary of Marcello Massimini’s Research18:35 – The Stages of Human Sleep24:26 – What Are Neuronal Oscillations?35:58 – Summary of Paper #1: The Sleep Slow Oscillation as a Traveling Wave (Massimini et al., 2004) 50:34 – How GWT is Related to the Findings of Paper #1: Massimini et al. (2004)57:10 – Summary of Paper #2: Breakdown of Cortical Effective Connectivity During Sleep (Massimini et al., 2005) 1:03:43 – Discussion of Findings in Paper #2: Massimini et al. (2005)1:20:34 – What Does Effective Connectivity Tell Us About Consciousness?1:30:03 – Does the Evidence Support a Grand Hypothesis?Summary
What can sleep tell us about the conscious mind?After some quick introductions and a summary of the previous two episodes by Ilian, the trio delves right into the main subject of the conversation, namely what can sleep tell us about the conscious mind. Bernie explains that in everyday life, sleep is the most natural absence of consciousness and that it can serve as a comparison to moments of awareness.
Next, Alea introduces the work of Marcello Massimini M.D., Ph.D., a professor in the Department of Biomedical and Clinical Sciences at the University of Milan, Italy, whose papers are the central topic of discussion in this episode. She points out that Massimini’s research is devoted to understanding changes in thalamocortical networks when consciousness fades and recovers, such as when we sleep and reawaken. The organ of consciousness inside the brain is a system that includes the cortex, and an egg-shaped structure inside the cortex, called thalamus. They work closely together and we call it the corticothalamic (CT) system. Alea emphasizes that in addition to neurophysiology, Massimini is interested in the theoretical and philosophical implications of the neuroscience of consciousness.
Bernie, Alea, and Ilian describe the stages and the mechanisms of the sleep cycle, namely the REM and non-REM phases. The trio also define some of the terminology used in this conversation, focusing on neuronal oscillation, or the electrical patterns of activity in the central nervous system. When examined with an EEG, oscillations throughout the brain display which regions are active during a particular state.
The Sleep Slow Oscillation as a Traveling WaveThe Sleep Slow Oscillation as a Traveling Wave, Massimini et al. (2004) is the first of two papers analyzed. Alea thoroughly summarizes the contents of the paper, indicating that the researchers detected traveling waves in the sleeping brain, particularly during nREM sleep. These waves had a site of origin and a direction, and most frequently originated in anterior (frontal) regions, and propagated posteriorly (back), although they can originate anywhere and propagate in any direction.
Bernie makes the point that a fundamental framework for Global Workspace Theory is precisely this broadcast and build concept. GWT implies that there is information being transmitted and these traveling waves are obviously one possible way that can reflect the transmission of information.
When We Fall Asleep, Consciousness Fades, Yet The Brain Remains Active.The second paper, titled Breakdown of Cortical Effective Connectivity During Sleep, Massimini et al. (2005), makes the observation that when we fall asleep, consciousness fades, yet the brain remains active. The researchers set out to understand why that is. They hypothesize that it is due to changes in information transfer. This ability to transfer and integrate information across multiple systems requires something called “effective connectivity” - or the ability of firing in one group of neurons to affect the firing of another. Massimini and his team suggest that consciousness is dependent on the brain’s ability to integrate information. This paper does seem to offer evidence for the breakdown of long-range connectivity during sleep. This is consistent with the broadcasting hypothesis which was discussed in parts I and II of this GWT series.
Bernie highlights the fact that even though the results appear to support the idea that this ability to transfer and integrate information across distant brain regions is necessary for conscious experience, the paper does have its limitations, such as the timing and measurement of the TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation) pulse.
In the final moments of the episode, the trio ponder what these findings might tell us about consciousness. Bernie believes that for him, the conclusions from these papers do not support the grand hypothesis of how consciousness is formed. Alea agrees, and says that although complex questions cannot be answered by a single paper, such studies serve as fundamental stepping stones to gain a better understanding of the grander picture.
We are always at the edge of ignorance.Some people suggest that dreaming is a kind of conscious state. Very early sources claim that waking is consciousness of the world, dreaming is consciousness of an inner world, and unconscious sleep is lack of any kind of conscious content. There are several things that we think we know, and there are a lot of things we don’t know. So we make our best guesses and when we find new evidence we change our guesses.
“I actually have a take-home lesson. This is to scientists and it's private. So don't tell anybody else. Try asking your subjects what they are experiencing and maybe you'll learn something.”
-Bernard Baars, PhD
Cited PapersMassimini, M., Ferrarelli, F., Huber, R., Esser, S. K., Singh, H., & Tononi, G. (2005, September 30). Breakdown of cortical effective connectivity during sleep. Science. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1117256
Massimini, M., Huber, R., Ferrarelli, F., Hill, S., & Tononi, G. (2004, August 4). The sleep slow oscillation as a traveling wave. Journal of Neuroscience. https://www.jneurosci.org/content/24/31/6862
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.comAPPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"BiosAlea Skwara is a PhD candidate at the University of California, Davis where she studies cognitive neuroscience. Her primary research focuses on compassion and responses to suffering. The main question that Alea is currently trying to answer is whether meditational practices can expand the range of people that a person can feel compassion for.
Ilian Daskalov is a senior undergraduate student at University of California, Irvine where he studies Cognitive Science. He holds an associate degree with honors from San Diego Mesa College. His research interests include sleep, psychedelics, and artificial intelligence. He is passionate about communicating science and promoting critical thinking.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble. -
"I think in terms of consciousness, it seems to me that these Feelings of Knowing are perhaps the conscious tip of the iceberg for this huge amount of unconscious processing that's going on of all this information in our environment, where maybe I couldn't tell you why I know there's danger, but I know."
- Alea Skwara, PhD Candidate in the Perception, Cognition, and Cognitive Neuroscience (PCCN) area of the Psychology Department at UC Davis
Global Workspace Theory: Exploring Evidence for Widespread Integration & Broadcasting of Conscious Signals - Part Two
Episode 17 of the Podcast On Consciousness with Bernard Baars explores the links between cutting edge brain evidence and how that supports or updates our understanding of consciousness and the Global Workspace Theory (GWT).
Talking Points0:00 – Intro5:24 – History of Global Workspace Theory8:23 – Discussion Paper #1: Baars et al. (2013) Global Workspace Dynamics 9:32 - What is meant by “Widespread Integration?”17:22 – The Neuroscience of Widespread Integration25:26 – Corticothalamic Loops in Relation to GWT30:10 – Localist vs Local-Global Theories35:46 – “The Question of Introspection”43:01 – How is Consciousness Assessed?49:58 – Feelings of Knowing (FOKs)54:33 – Discussion Paper #2: Gaillard et al. (2009) Converging Intracranial Markers... 1:04:20 – Discussion Paper #3: Herman et al. (2019) A Switch & Wave of Neuronal Activity1:14:55 – Brain Oscillations: Gamma and Beta Bands1:20:56 – Paper #4: Deco et al. (2021) Revisiting the Global Workspace1:26:29 – Functional Rich Clubs1:41:50 – The Future Quest for ConsciousnessSummaryEpisode 17 is the second in a three-part series on GWT Origins & Evidence, featuring our student interviewers, Alea Skwara and Ilian Daskalov. Together with Bernard Baars, they examine the recent neuroscientific study of consciousness.
After some quick introductions, Alea briefly summarizes their discussion in Part I on the history of Global Workspace, how the theory evolved, as well as some of the core hypotheses it generates. Now we dive into the brain evidence.
Global Workspace Theory (or GWT) was first formulated in the ‘80s as a psychological theory of how consciousness might operate. In Part I, we talked about the spotlight metaphor. One of the key predictions of GWT is “widespread integration and broadcasting.” This seems to be one of the predictions that can be most directly tested by brain activity, our topic today.
Cortical Binding and PropagationThe trio delves into the first of 4 papers, namely Baars’ 2013 paper called “Global Workspace Dynamics.” This paper comes as the result of four decades of cumulative work, which pulls together the evidence as of 2013. One of its key points connecting GWT to neuroscientific evidence is that GWT does not require (or suggest) an “anatomical hub” of coordinated activity, but, instead, a momentary, dynamic “functional hub.”
Bernie, Alea and Ilian explore the question: What is the difference between an anatomical hub and a functional hub, and what does it mean to say that a functional hub is dynamic?
Bernie explains how the conscious brain is characterized by ‘widespread integration and broadcasting.’ The cortex is like a large city with specialized neighborhoods, streets and alleys. There is an ever changing flow of traffic between them. He then suggests that the thalamus is more than a relay station of the brain, and that the sensory thalamus is an entryway to the giant cortico-thalamic (CT) system, which integrates and broadcasts conscious information.
Next, Ilian asks how we can experimentally test conscious processes. This moves the conversation to Feelings of Knowing (FOKs), which is one fundamental type of conscious experience. Bernie makes the point that Feelings of Knowing are an integral part of the conscious stream.
Evidence for GWT: Conscious Access, Gamma Activity, and Functional Rich ClubsThe next paper is by Gaillard et al. (2009). It is an outstanding example of reading work from France by Dehaene and Changeux in Paris. The title is “Converging Intracranial Markers of Conscious Access, ” and it represents probably the most precise and accurate evidence so far for cortical integration and broadcasting. The experiment compared conscious and unconscious processing of briefly flashed words. Our trio asks the question: How does the observed effect of longer lasting and more widespread brain activity during conscious perception of a word offer support for GWT?
Alea explains how this evidence confirms that conscious perceptual activity is propagated widely throughout the cortex.
The third target paper is from a famous Yale epilepsy research group, led by Hal Blumenfeld, and the first author is Wendy X. Herman. It is titled, “A Switch and Wave of Neuronal Activity in the Cerebral Cortex During the First Second of Conscious Perception” (2019), and reinforces our message. Alea summarizes this third paper in the discussion, which looks at conscious perception in humans by using direct electrical recordings from the cerebral cortex during a visual perception task. Herman et al. discovered that stimuli that were consciously perceived elicited large-scale network switching, followed by waves of gamma activity. These findings support the hypothesis that such large waves are an indication of coordinated local-global activity.
Our trio asks: What might be the special significance of the gamma and beta bands to consciousness?
An important recent paper by Deco et al. (2019) links this research to the major discovery of the cortical connectome, the street map of the cortex. It is called “Revisiting the Global Workspace.”
This fourth and final paper, with coauthors Deco, Vidaurre, and Kringelbach, examined neuroimages from over 1000 participants and created a full brain hierarchy in what the researchers defined as ‘functional rich clubs.’ These ‘clubs’ correlate activity between brain regions and strengthen the idea that Global Workspace is dynamic, but not necessarily in a grossly visible way. Our trio explores: What does Deco’s idea of an “invariant global workspace” mean?
The Future Quest for ConsciousnessAs our trio wraps up, Ilian wants to know about the future of “the quest for consciousness.” Bernie and Alea agree that combining brain recordings with phenomenological interviews during meditation is very exciting.
Links to Papers Discussed in the EpisodePaper 1: “Global Workspace Dynamics: Cortical ‘Binding and Propagation’ Enables Conscious Contents
Paper 2: Converging Intracranial Markers of Conscious Access
Paper 3: A Switch and Wave of Neuronal Activity in the Cerebral Cortex During the First Second of Conscious Perception
Paper 4: Revisiting the Global Workspace: Orchestration of the Functional Hierarchical Organisation of the Human Brain
Bios
Alea Skwara is a PhD candidate at the University of California, Davis where she studies cognitive neuroscience. Her primary research focuses on compassion and responses to suffering. The main question that Alea is currently trying to answer is whether meditational practices can expand the range of people that a person can feel compassion for.
Ilian Daskalov is a senior undergraduate student at University of California, Irvine where he studies Cognitive Science. He holds an associate degree with honors from San Diego Mesa College. His research interests include sleep, psychedelics, and artificial intelligence. He is passionate about communicating science and promoting critical thinking.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.comAPPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP" -
"One of the major features of the Global Workspace hypothesis began with limited capacity, that there has to be a compensatory event in the brain happening, and the most plausible one, for various reasons, including other people's work, of course, was that there's some kind of very wide recruitment of brain resources that happens as a function of becoming conscious of something."
– Dr. Bernard Baars, originator of Global Workspace Theory and Global Workspace Dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness.
“Global Workspace Theory: Exploring Origins and Evidence - Part 1” with Ilian Daskalov & Alea SkwaraIn episode 16 of the Podcast On Consciousness, psychobiologist and author Bernard Baars, and Student Interviewers Alea Skwara, a PhD candidate at UC Davis and Ilian Daskalov, a senior undergrad student at UC Irvine unpack the origins and various components of Baars’ Global Workspace Theory (GWT), a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex, and consciousness. GWT is a widely used framework for the role of conscious and unconscious events in the functioning of the brain, a set of explicit assumptions that can be tested, as many of them have been in the last twenty years. Global Workspace Dynamics (GWD) is the most current version of GWT – attempting to take into account the complexities of the living brain.
Talking Points
0:00 – Intro by Natalie Geld, Bernard Baars, Alea Skwara & Ilian Daskalov5:58 – Is a Stream of Consciousness a Passive State?11:59 – How is Consciousness Defined?18:29 – Unpacking the Origins of Global Workspace Theory28:37 – Features of Global Workspace Theory 37:45 – The Limited Capacity of Conscious Awareness42:36 – Parallel Integrated Computing50:28 – Widespread Integration and Broadcasting1:00:55 – What People Get Wrong About GWTSummary
Bernie opens the conversation with the point that consciousness has largely been perceived as a passive state. When scientists initially started recording brain activity, the collection of brain regions which were active in the absence of a given task were considered to be “the brain’s metabolic baseline.” This notion, however, has received plenty of pushback in recent years, and this baseline is now regarded as an active cognitive task.
In an effort to get everyone on the same page, Ilian asks Bernie to define consciousness for the listeners. By using a metaphorical comparison to Galileo and his thermometer, Baars indicates that our current science is only able to give us an “operational definition,” which may differ from what consciousness actually is. In addition, by reiterating one of Baars’ metaphors, Alea explains that awareness is like a shining spotlight in a theater, while the unilluminated part of the stage, which is the majority of it, is where all the unconscious processes occur.
Origins of Global Workspace TheoryIlian asks Bernie about the origins of Global Workspace Theory, and what inspired his thought process.
Bernie shares his story on how he became interested in studying consciousness, which was initially ignited by the limitations of strictly behavioristic views imposed upon the scientific thinking of the time. Additionally, by exploring altered states of consciousness through the practice of transcendental meditation and inspired by the field of artificial intelligence, Bernie began to formulate a model to explain the nature of awareness. The key to any scientific concept is “relative evidence.” Without that we simply get lost. And the history of speculation about consciousness is mostly about people getting lost, arguing about semantic questions and frankly wasting time. What we want, in fact, is to study nature through facts. Baars has argued that “contrastive evidence” involves the most relevant set of facts, such as sleep and waking states.
The Bottleneck Paradox: Exploring the Limited Capacity of ConsciousnessDiving further into the various characteristics of Global Workspace and the questions which the theory attempts to answer, Bernie and Alea examine one of its most notable features, namely Limited Capacity, or the process of being aware of only a small percentage of what is happening in one’s mind. Limited capacity appears to be a genuine feature of the brain that continues to be a paradox. In the history of science, puzzles like this are the hardest fundamental questions to solve.
Building on this topic, they also incorporate the subject of parallel integrated computing, which describes how a number of processors simultaneously tackle the same problem in order to reach the most optimal solution.
Global Access, Integration, and Some ClarificationsThe discussion then moves on to the core prediction of GWT, which is “widespread integration and broadcasting.” Bernie uses the example of a chirping bird to explain that integration is the process of sound traveling to both ears at slightly different times, all the while being perceived as one.
Furthermore, Alea summarizes the broadcasting aspect of Global Workspace as the ability to “hyper focus on a narrow piece of experience.”
In the final segment of the episode, Ilian and Bernie discuss some of the common misconceptions about Global Workspace Theory. Referring to the analogy of a traffic jam’s changing epicenter, Baars explains that the Global Workspace is a dynamic hub in the brain - and not static - as commonly thought.
In Episode 17 - Part 2 of our series on GWT, Bernie, Ilian, and Alea will explore the links between cutting edge brain evidence and how that supports or updates our understanding of consciousness and the Global Workspace Theory. They will begin with Bernie’s co-authored paper from 2013 -- “Global Workspace Dynamics: Cortical “binding and propagation” enables conscious contents” -- the result of four decades of cumulative work, which is important because it pulls all the current strands together. Three recent scientific papers will be unpacked that point out a plausible way in which all our sources can converge - can come together into a single conception.
This is only a start and we hope that this conversation triggers further questions.
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.comAPPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP" BiosAlea Skwara is a PhD candidate at the University of California, Davis where she studies cognitive neuroscience. Her primary research focuses on compassion and responses to suffering. The main question that Alea is currently trying to answer is whether meditational practices can expand the range of people that a person can feel compassion for.
Ilian Daskalov is a senior undergraduate student at University of California, Irvine where he studies Cognitive Science. He holds an associate degree with honors from San Diego Mesa College. His research interests include sleep, psychedelics, and artificial intelligence. He is passionate about communicating science and promoting critical thinking.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble. -
"The idea is to help people understand how this science is relevant to their daily lives. Our brain likes novelty. It gets this sort of dopamine hit when you give it new information. Capturing attention and getting people excited about the information is really important, especially when dealing with things like public health issues, for example.”
– Dr. Heather Berlin, Neuropsychologist and Assistant Clinical Professor at Mount Sinai
Episode 15: "Communicating Science Effectively and The Notion of Free Will" with Dr. Heather Berlin *On Consciousness*
For Episode #15, our returning guest is neuropsychologist Dr. Heather Berlin, an Assistant Clinical Professor in Psychiatry at Mount Sinai School of Medicine. Dr. Berlin is a trained neuroscientist and a clinical psychologist. She is also interested in the neural basis of consciousness, dynamic unconscious processes, the use of psychedelics to treat mental disorders, and in the neural basis of creativity. We discuss her work and passions in this episode.
Talking Points0:00 - Intro with Bernard Baars, Dr. Heather Berlin & Student Interviewer, Ilian Daskalov1:14 - Self-regulation and impulsivity6:59 - Communicating science effectively10:57 - The future of AI16:23 - The notion of free will19:30 - Future scientific discoveries22:33 - Advice for neuroscience studentsSummaryBernie Baars expresses his interest in the topic of human impulsivity and invites Dr. Berlin to share how her work has been shaped by studying the nature of self-regulation. Heather discusses her pursuit of trying to understand what makes us distinctly human, which led her on a journey of studying the functions of the prefrontal cortex. Additionally, the two also briefly touch on how Freud’s work has contributed to our understanding of the human mind.
Bernie then welcomes Student Interviewer Ilian Daskalov, a Cognitive Science student at University of California, Irvine into the conversation to further explore her unique work, research and creative endeavors.
Relating Science to Our Daily LivesThey begin with the question “What makes someone an effective science communicator?” Heather explains that while there are many ways to communicate science, the key to capturing your audience’s attention stems from relating science information to their daily lives. Heather says:
“First of all, find what you are good at, what medium you might be best at. You know, my husband raps about science, right? That's his medium. Then start to cultivate your medium. I think the kind of overarching aim that runs across them all is about connecting with people. I think on an emotional level, on a personal level -- because sometimes science can be abstract and objective, and that's what we want with science. It's objective. It's not amenable to our subjectivity, but at the same time that can feel very clinical. Distant.
The idea is to help people understand how this science is relevant to their daily lives. How it's meaningful and what it means to them. Even if it's just inspiring a sense of awe, like, I don't know for sure about astrophysics, maybe it doesn't have any direct impact on our daily life, but just living in this universe and the enormity of it!! It’s awe inspiring!
Our brain likes novelty. It gets this sort of dopamine hit when you give it new information. Capturing attention and getting people excited about the information is really important, especially when dealing with things like public health issues, for example.”
Conscious AI and the Notion of Free WillRecalling a recent interview between Heather Berlin and Sophia the Robot, Ilian seeks to understand where the future development of general artificial intelligence is heading. Both Bernie and Heather express their skepticism that humanity will be able to create conscious machines. They go on to explain that while our understanding of consciousness is yet incomplete, the biological components that it consists of appear to be fundamental building blocks.
Following the topic of AI, the discussion moves on to the notion of Free Will. Heather points out that although there is no evidence for the Cartesian definition of Free Will, the unconscious processes may not be predetermined. She further highlights the fact that the lack of Free Will does not excuse inappropriate human behavior as we have evolved the capacity to have self-control, primarily due to the maturation of the prefrontal cortex.
Bernie shares his thoughts on consciousness and the sense of Free Will:
“Consciousness has been a huge taboo in the last 100 years, and so people are very often a little bit ashamed or inhibited or afraid of getting criticized when they speak freely of consciousness and Free Will. The key move in this new and confusing area is to state our questions in a testable and open-minded way. In good science, we should never impose our answers onto nature.
The way to study the sense of freedom that we all have is profoundly important -- it is very real -- and not an illusion. There are profound biological reasons as to why humans and animals prefer freedom over coercion. Once we ask the question this way, we can study it.”
Future ScienceIn the final moments of the episode, Ilian inquires about any future scientific discoveries that Heather is most enthusiastic about. She shares her excitement for the potential uses of neural implants which will aid in manipulating pathways in our brains, leading to enhanced memory, creativity, and intelligence. She also expresses optimism that through gene editing, we would be able to eliminate some neurological illnesses, such as Alzheimer’s Disease.
In closing, Ilian asks: “What general advice do you have for students of neuroscience and psychology?” Heather responds by urging science students to be persistent in chasing their goals and to always be bold and take risks, and says,
“Just keep going, keep going, keep going, and don't let anybody stop you unless it's illegal.”
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.comAPPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"Bios:Dr. Heather Berlin is a dual-trained neuroscientist and clinical psychologist, and assistant clinical professor of psychiatry at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mont Sinai in NY. She explores the neural basis of impulsive and compulsive psychiatric and neurological disorders with the aim of developing novel treatments. She is also interested in the brain basis of consciousness, dynamic unconscious processes, and creativity. Clinically, she specializes in lifespan (child, adolescent, and adult) treatment of anxiety, mood, and impulsive and compulsive disorders (e.g. OCD), blending her neural perspective with cognitive behavioral therapy, mindfulness, and humanistic approaches. You can visit her website at https://www.heatherberlin.com/
Ilian Daskalov is a senior undergraduate student at University of California, Irvine where he studies Cognitive Science. He holds an associate degree with honors from San Diego Mesa College. His research interests include sleep, psychedelics, and artificial intelligence. He is passionate about communicating science and promoting critical thinking.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble. -
“In many cases you can see an immediate effect, as in chronic depression – suddenly you turn on the electrodes – you don't tell them when it's on or off, right? And their whole face lights up. And you ask, "What do you feel like?" And they say, "Oh, it feels wonderful. It feels like I won the lottery! It's so great!"
– Dr. Heather Berlin, Neuropsychologist and Assistant Clinical Professor at Mount Sinai
Episode 14: "Psychedelics, Impulsivity, and Brain Stimulation" with Dr. Heather Berlin *On Consciousness*In this episode, our guest is neuropsychologist Dr. Heather Berlin, an Assistant Clinical Professor in Psychiatry at Mount Sinai School of Medicine. Dr. Berlin conducts research to better understand the neural basis of impulsivity, compulsivity, and emotion with the goal of more targeted treatment. She employs neuroimaging and neuropsychological and psychopharmacological testing of brain lesion and compulsive, impulsive, and personality disorder patients. She is also interested in the neural basis of consciousness, dynamic unconscious processes, the use of psychedelics to treat mental disorders, and in the neural basis of creativity. We discuss her work and interests in this episode.
Talking Points:0:00 – Introduction 3:09 – Impulse Control and Associated Brain Areas 9:27 – Finding a Balance: Healthy Brain vs Impairment and Self Regulation17:40 – The Essence of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorders24:40 – The Big News: Deep Brain Stimulation as an Effective Treatment for OCD29:29 – Brain Aspects of Stress and Resilience 37:01 – How Effective is Deep Brain Stimulation?41:59 – Advances in Psychedelic Research45:15 – Psilocybin and Ego Dissolution 54:18 – Pharmaceutical Addiction Tapering58:12 – Flow States, Mystical Experiences: “The Cosmic Perspective” 01:04:46 – PossibilitiesSummary:Dr. Berlin has done an enormous range of work, which you can distill into this very profound question: “How do we control our unwanted impulses, our desires, our emotions, our reactions with other people?” These are very common questions, starting very early in life.
For example, imagine yourself as a child looking at the most delicious food, let’s use ice cream, and not being allowed to eat it… impulse control is having to wait. Impulse control is not just a problem in childhood, it is perhaps the major problem in adults who have significant psychological troubles. This includes the addictions, but also severe mood swings that adults want to change, but do not seem to have the power to change in these moments. When it is hard to control repeated impulses, we talk about compulsions; cigarette smoking can be seen as a compulsion. When repetitive thoughts are hard to regulate, we talk about obsessions.
There seems to be a tug of war between those deep midbrain nuclei and the control system which involves the prefrontal cortex. Various areas of the prefrontal cortex have somewhat different effects, but prefrontal is associated with self regulation, while midbrain nuclei have to do with impulses, motivations, emotions, and so on. The prefrontal cortex is sometimes called the “organ of civilization” or as Heather dubs it, “the brake system”.
The Big NewsIt is amazing how low level electrical stimulation by microscopic electrodes can profoundly change human mood disorders, like severe depression. The brain areas stimulated include the nucleus accumbens and ventral striatum of the basal ganglia, and local areas in the prefrontal cortex.
“Medical science is often an art as well as a science, but Deep Brain Stimulation (DBS) really can have significant effect and impact on people with difficult-to-treat conditions, like OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder), but also people with intractable or untreatable depression,” says Dr. Heather Berlin.
DBS can be surprisingly effective. As Dr. Berlin points out, “DBS is a huge success story. 40 to 50% of patients with severe untreatable depression, and about 60 to 70% of patients with severe OCD all have significant improvement in people who’ve tried every first line treatment and nothing has worked. In many cases you can see an immediate effect, as in chronic depression -- suddenly you turn on the electrodes -- you don't tell them when it's on or off, right? And their whole face lights up. And you ask "What do you feel like?" And they say "Oh, it feels wonderful. It feels like I won the lottery! It's so great!" And as they're talking, you turn off the electrodes and you just see their whole affect drop right back down.”
Surprising Advances in Psychedelic ResearchIn the 1960s, psychedelics got a mixed reception, because many people had spectacular experiences, but physicians often wondered if there were harmful side effects. Now we are seeing a return to psychedelics as a promising treatment for different neuropsychiatric conditions.
The new therapies always combine the psychedelic-assisted treatment with the presence of a specialized psychotherapist. Dr. Berlin gives us a summary of the new discoveries in the use of psychedelics, including MDMA for the treatment of PTSD, psilocybin to treat anxiety and people with end of life issues, ketamine, a dissociative anesthetic, for the treatment of severe depression and particular suicidality, and more recently DMT (or ayahuasca) as a treatment for certain psychiatric illnesses.
After 50 years of persistent efforts to find solutions, in the last decade we finally have treatments with dramatic positive effects. Dr. Heather Berlin presents us with recent medical breakthroughs for very severe life problems that have been difficult to address.
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.comAPPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"Bios:Dr. Heather Berlin is a dual-trained neuroscientist and clinical psychologist, and assistant clinical professor of psychiatry at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mont Sinai in NY. She explores the neural basis of impulsive and compulsive psychiatric and neurological disorders with the aim of developing novel treatments. She is also interested in the brain basis of consciousness, dynamic unconscious processes, and creativity. Clinically, she specializes in lifespan (child, adolescent, and adult) treatment of anxiety, mood, and impulsive and compulsive disorders (e.g. OCD), blending her neural perspective with cognitive behavioral therapy, mindfulness, and humanistic approaches. You can visit her website at https://www.heatherberlin.com/
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble. -
"The only way we get certainty or stability in the world is to start from what we know, and gradually move to what we don't know."
- Bernard Baars, PhD, originator of the Global Workspace Theory, a theory of cognitive architecture and consciousness.
Episode 13: "Thinking About Animal Consciousness" The question of whether some non-human animals are capable of awareness has vexed psychologists, neuroscientists, and philosophers of mind for many decades. In the final episode of Season One of The Podcast On Consciousness, Bernard Baars and David Edelman attempt to demystify animal consciousness. They suggest a comparative framework for investigating subjectivity that considers the human case as a benchmark, but at the same time emphasizes a kind of behavioral output as a form of report, akin to the language-based reports used in studies of human consciousness. Talking Points:0:04 – Intro1:38 – Where in the brain is consciousness located?7:44 – Consciousness in non-mammalian animals11:00 – The visual cortex17:15 – How is consciousness defined?25:01 - Behaviors as markers for subjectivity30:02 –Sensory consciousness and higher order self-awareness34:14 – Do cephalopods belong to the big C-club?40:22 – The awareness of the selfBios:David Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Department of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017.
He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP" #podbean #podcast #spotify #itunes #podcasting #podcastlife #stitcher #podcasts #applepodcasts #googleplay #youtube #podcasters #podcaster #soundcloud #podcastshow #newpodcast #googlepodcasts #applepodcast #iheartradio #spotifypodcast #itunespodcast #podcastmovement #entertainment #castbox #radio #subscribe #listen #neuroscience #psychology #brain #globalworkspace #gwt #bernardbaars #davidedelman #markmitton #davidedelman #bernardbaars #brainscience #sciencepodcast #science -
"Consciousness can be firmly embedded in biology, based on the fact that all kinds of [demonstrably biological] processes that are not [by themselves] conscious are important for conscious process[ing].”
- David Edelman, PhD, A neuroscientist and a Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College
Episode 12: "Consciousness in Context - The Brain is Embodied and the Body is Embedded"
In the 12th episode of ‘On Consciousness,’ psychobiologist Bernard Baars and neuroscientist David Edelman are joined by renowned master of misdirection and sleight of hand, professional magician Mark Mitton, as they consider the problem of consciousness within the larger scope of biology.
Talking Points: 00:03 – Introduction by Bernard Baars.02:42 – Mark Mitton introduces himself.04:55 – David Edelman introduces himself.06:47 – David discusses cephalopods and their behavior.09:15 – How is magic connected to consciousness?13:20 – What are the boundaries of one’s knowledge?18:32 – Limitations of brain imaging technologies.21:14 – Perception and awareness.26:05 – How does paleontology compare to hard sciences?32:20 – The biological complexity of individuality.39:20 – How do antibodies interact with antigens?48:14 – Deception beyond language.52:50 – Are simple organisms conscious?01:01:47 - Non-conscious processes.01:05:27 - Is consciousness a biological process? Summary of the Conversation:Starting with the example of magic as it has recently been used by some neuroscientists to explore conscious and unconscious processing in the brain, Mitton highlights the problem of reconciling two nomenclatures and the fact that magicians and neuroscientists think about the processes they manipulate and exploit in some very different ways. This leads to a poignant and topical question, first posed by Mitton and then echoed by Edelman: What are the boundaries of our knowledge? Most magicians think of what they do as craft, and in thinking this way, are willing to afford a degree of mystery to the realm in which they ply their craft. But what about neuroscientists? It can probably be said without exaggeration that many neuroscientists are not necessarily comfortable with the limits of their own knowledge.
Baars, Edelman, and Mitton mull over the relatively recent appreciation of the richness of biological complexity and how this must necessarily alter our view of how consciousness and other aspects of natural phenomena can be woven into a unified view of biology. The complexity of myriad processes across all levels of biological organization seems to stymie our best efforts at formulating a grand theoretical framework that integrates all that we observe in nature.
In confronting the problem of biological complexity, Baars makes the point that, at least in the case of consciousness, the role of the individual hasn’t been well understood or appreciated. Once individual variation is taken into account, the notion of what adaptation means at all levels of biological organization changes radically.
Mitton offers the example of the immune response. How does the immune system recognize a foreign invader it hasn’t encountered before — or, for that matter, a chemical compound that has never existed in the history of the planet — and mount a successful defense of the body? The key to an effective immune response is a vast preexisting (and ever diversifying) repertoire of different kinds of antibodies.
Edelman contrasts this with the case of the digital computer, in which the actions of a machine are instructed by an extrinsic program. Though the example of the immune response seems quite far from the problem of conscious brain function, the role of individual variability and selectional interactions — whether between antibody and antigen or brain and the world it perceives — may be common to both biological processes.
The trio consider how we should proceed in conscious science, knowing what we don’t know. Baars suggests that, while a practical scientific approach might avoid drawing absolute lines, it makes sense to first assume that in order to be conscious, an organism must have a nervous system. All three then acknowledge that many of the functional requisites of consciousness have been objects of study for a long time, such as memory. Consciousness not only overlies the neural faculty of memory, it also depends, for what it is and what it does, on memory and other faculties that have been around for tens of millions of years. All kinds of processes that aren’t by themselves conscious are nevertheless critical to conscious processing.
Finally, Baars, Mitton, and Edelman return to the idea that consciousness is fundamentally biological, even if it seems to thrust us into a weird purview in which we need to deal with a material object called the brain that instantiates immaterial thoughts.
In closing, Mitton offers a phrase coined by Gerald Edelman that neatly encapsulates the idea of placing the mind firmly in biological perspective: “the brain is embodied and the body is embedded.”
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP" Bios:Mark Mitton is a professional magician who is fascinated by using magic to better understand how we see the world. In addition to performing at private and corporate events all over the world, and creating magic for film, television, the Broadway stage, and Cirque du Soleil, Mark explores the theme of 'Misdirection' from an interdisciplinary standpoint. He regularly presents on 'Perception' at universities and conferences in North America and Europe, including the Association for the Scientific Study of Consciousness, and has lectured with the late Nobel Laureate Dr. Gerald Edelman on The Neurosciences Institute. http://markmitton.com
David Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Dept of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017.
He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.*Watch Episode 12 on Our YouTube Channel! #podbean #podcast #spotify #itunes #podcasting #podcastlife #stitcher #podcasts #applepodcasts #googleplay #youtube #podcasters #podcaster #soundcloud #podcastshow #newpodcast #googlepodcasts #applepodcast #iheartradio #spotifypodcast #itunespodcast #podcastmovement #entertainment #castbox #radio #subscribe #listen #neuroscience #psychology #brain #globalworkspace #gwt #bernardbaars #davidedelman #markmitton #davidedelman #bernardbaars #brainscience #sciencepodcast #science -
"Episodic memory involves conscious experiences being encoded. Same goes for semantic and autobiographical memories. All varieties of memories come in through conscious moments of recall. So, I think that consciousness is the means by which any kinds of memories are established."
- Bernard Baars, PhD, originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences, and a recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society.
EPISODE 11: Roundtable Part Four "Brain Regions and Neural Functions Critical to Conscious States"
In the final episode of their roundtable talks, originator of Global Workspace Theory Bernard Baars, neuroscientist David Edelman, and developmental neuropsychiatrist Dr. Jay Giedd conclude their discussion by analyzing the brain areas which are critical for higher brain function, neuroimaging techniques associated with detecting conscious experiences, and the possible existence of consciousness in non-mammalian animals.
Get your 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"Talking Points00:03 – Introduction by David Edelman02:09 – The Role of Thalamus and Cortex in Higher Brain Processing08:08 – Is Memory Fundamental to Consciousness12:14 – Brain Variations Between Mammals and Other Animals16:22 – Differences Between Sleep and Awake States in the Human BrainSummary of the ConversationIn this absorbing episode of ‘On Consciousness,’ Bernard Baars, David Edelman, and developmental neuropsychiatrist Dr. Jay Giedd initiate the conversation by considering the functional aspects of the brain that are believed to be absolutely critical to consciousness.
Bernie, Jay, and David ponder the role of cortex and thalamus in higher brain function, including conscious processing. Bernie underlines the problem of considering the linkage between thalamus and cortex as merely a simple feedback loop. From an engineering perspective, this sort of circuit could not possibly work as such an arrangement would inevitably, as Bernie puts it, lead to effective failure of the thalamocortical circuit. Instead, it seems to be the case that the cortex functions in a state of near-criticality. As Jay indicates, this implies that the cortex is always at a tipping point, i.e., close to a phase transition and “always ready to be influenced.”
Elucidating the neurobiology of consciousness has been somewhat hindered by technical hurdles. But, despite the spatial and temporal limitations of current neurophysiological and imaging technologies, David observes that certain aspects of brain anatomy—including cortex and thalamus—have been established as the sine qua non of conscious experience in mammals. In an optimistic vein, Jay offers that new combinations of existing techniques (such as MEG, EEG, and fMRI) may soon yield a much clearer picture.
Next, Edelman, Baars, and Giedd consider the idea that certain higher neural processes are central to consciousness, even though those processes may often function independently of any state of awareness. Memory, which seems to be fundamental to conscious experience, is one such process. While memory and recall figure prominently in conscious experience, it’s certainly the case that some varieties of memory are regularly engaged during non-conscious states and behaviors.
The trio concludes the conversation by reflecting on the prospect of consciousness as a biological phenomenon. Additionally, they consider the possibility of consciousness in animals distant from the mammalian line and as it is the case of the octopus, a creature separated from the vertebrate radiation by more than half a billion years. The octopus as a possible test case for consciousness beyond the realm of vertebrates is particularly tantalizing, given that, unlike mammals, it has neither a cerebral cortex nor a thalamus.
BiosDr. Jay GieddChair of child psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital-San Diego and director of child and adolescent psychiatry, Dr. Giedd is also a professor of psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine, and professor in the Dept of Population, Family and Reproductive Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Dr. Giedd was chief of the Section on Brain Imaging, Child Psychiatry Branch of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). His widely published research and expertise evaluates how the child's brain develops in health and illness, the factors that influence development and how to optimize treatments to take advantage of the child's changing brain. Jay and his award winning work were featured in the PBS 2 part series "Brains on Trial" hosted by Alan Alda.David Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Dept of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017.
He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.*Watch Episode 11 on Our YouTube Channel!
#podbean #podcast #spotify #itunes #podcasting #podcastlife #stitcher #podcasts #applepodcasts #googleplay #youtube #podcasters #podcaster #soundcloud #podcastshow #newpodcast #googlepodcasts #applepodcast #iheartradio #spotifypodcast #itunespodcast #podcastmovement #entertainment #castbox #radio #subscribe #listen #neuroscience #psychology #brain #globalworkspace #gwt #bernardbaars #davidedelman #jaygiedd #brainscience #sciencepodcast #science -
"All models are wrong, but some are useful." And I think ultimately that's the test of a construct like Global Workspace Theory - does it lead us to greater knowledge? Does it suggest areas of research? Does it make predictions that we can test? And that's why I think Global Workspace Theory has stood the test of time. It has succeeded on all of those fronts."
- Dr. Jay Giedd, Chair of child psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital - San Diego and director of child and adolescent psychiatry, professor of psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine, and professor in the Dept of Population, Family and Reproductive Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
EPISODE 10: Roundtable Part Three - Global Workspace Theory - Brain Aspects and Evidence with Dr. Jay Giedd
In the third part of their roundtable talk, neuroscientist David Edelman, Bernard Baars, originator of the global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, and developmental neuropsychiatrist Jay Giedd consider underlying neural processes and anatomical features of Global Workspace Theory and continue on their journey to unravel the complexities surrounding conscious experiences.
How does consciousness come together in the brain? How does memory figure into conscious experience? Knowing how we acquire coherent perceptual insights about the world and then commit those insights to memory, can we tune the learning process to optimize the acquisition of new skills?
Get your 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"Talking Points00:00 – Intro by David Edelman.02:09 – David Edelman prompts Baars to summarize the key points of the Global Workspace Theory.07:41 – Has Global Workspace Theory been interpreted correctly by scientists? What did people get right and wrong about it?09:11 – Baars argues against the idea that consciousness is a byproduct of human biology and that instead the two are interconnected.11:09 – Jay Giedd on how Global Workspace Theory served as a great standing ground for research in the field of consciousness.12:41 - The trio continue the conversation by discussing the virtually limitless potential of the human brain to learn novel information.15:36 - Jay Giedd discusses how some human skills are diminishing with the advancement of technology.18:02 - Edelman and Giedd engage in the process of defining consciousness and ponder upon the notion of what is necessary to create a conscious experience.21:26 - Edelman asks Baars to explain from the standpoint of Global Workspace Theory, which mammalian brain areas are involved in the conscious process.26:24 - Baars, Giedd, and Edelman discuss the limitations of brain imaging technology.Summary of the ConversationHow does consciousness come together in the brain? How does memory figure into conscious experience? Knowing how we acquire coherent perceptual insights about the world and then commit those insights to memory, can we tune the learning process to optimize the acquisition of new skills?
In this engrossing episode of ‘On Consciousness,' Bernard Baars, David Edelman, and developmental neuropsychiatrist Jay Giedd consider Global Workspace Theory (GWT) and its underlying neural processes and anatomical features, as well as the development of the imaging technology which has afforded a detailed view of brain activity in near-real time that appears to support GWT.
To begin the discussion, Bernie provides an outline of GWT. He points to the paradox that our thought processes seem to unfold serially, yet the brain architecture underlying those thought processes resembles a collection of massively parallel processors. With this insight in mind, Bernie proposed a Global Workspace in which nonconscious processes arising in different neural regions come together, those processes are somehow polled, and the most ‘popular’ among them gets broadcast throughout the cerebral cortex, amounting to a sort of ‘ignition’ of conscious experience.
From Bernie’s summary of GWT, the discussion turns to perceptual learning. As humans negotiating an incredibly complex world, one of our greatest advantages is a long maturation period that affords us the time to acquire many sophisticated skills. Given time, a rich suite of sensory faculties, a large brain, and a good understanding of the neural processes underlying learning and memory, can we somehow optimize the acquisition of specialized skills? Elaborating on this, Jay proposes the prospect of replacing native skills that are losing ground to technology with new ones — sophisticated pattern recognition being just one example. Human beings are still much better at pattern recognition than the most powerful supercomputers.
Central to conscious perception is the ability of the brain to bind perceptual input from different sensory organs into cohesive, unified percepts that somehow hold together and persist in memory. Jay observes that during development, there must be an accretive weaving together of percepts which at some point passes a threshold of complexity, yielding conscious experience. But, when do developing humans and some non-human animals cross this rubicon of awareness? New imaging techniques, including fMRI and MEG, have made it possible for researchers to record some of the functional signatures of integration of percepts. Someday, using improved versions of such techniques, we may increasingly observe the emergence of complex states of consciousness in human infants and young non-human animals.
At the close of the discussion, Bernie, Jay, and David reflect on the work of Wilder Penfield, whose contributions included the identification of numerous brain regions with particular functional specializations and the seminal insight that the cerebral cortex is the organ of mind. The pioneering refinements in open skull surgery which made possible these contributions also led Penfield to observe that variations in blood coloration associated with changes in flow were strongly correlated with differences in brain area activation. In a sense, as Jay remarks, Penfield’s observation presaged the development of fMRI. Tempering the promise of neuroimaging, Jay and David conclude the conversation by pondering the shortcomings of fMRI, including limits on spatial and temporal resolution, extreme computational processing (which can lead to ‘data massaging’), and the danger of overinterpreting results.
BiosDr. Jay GieddChair of child psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital-San Diego and director of child and adolescent psychiatry, Dr. Giedd is also a professor of psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine, and professor in the Dept of Population, Family and Reproductive Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Dr. Giedd was chief of the Section on Brain Imaging, Child Psychiatry Branch of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). His widely published research and expertise evaluates how the child's brain develops in health and illness, the factors that influence development and how to optimize treatments to take advantage of the child's changing brain. Jay and his award winning work were featured in the PBS 2 part series "Brains on Trial" hosted by Alan Alda.David Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Dept of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017.
He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.*Watch Episode 10 on Our YouTube channel!
#podbean #podcast #spotify #itunes #podcasting #podcastlife #stitcher #podcasts #applepodcasts #googleplay #youtube #podcasters #podcaster #soundcloud #podcastshow #newpodcast #googlepodcasts #applepodcast #iheartradio #spotifypodcast #itunespodcast #podcastmovement #entertainment #castbox #radio #subscribe #listen #neuroscience #psychology #brain #globalworkspace #gwt #bernardbaars #davidedelman #jaygiedd #brainscience #sciencepodcast #science -
"You highlighted the difference that makes a difference. Тhis is not only a neat catchphrase, but there's also something very deep about it. And sleep, in fact, is a really interesting aspect of behavior, that maybe gives us a window on the difference between conscious and non-conscious processes in the brain, because there is a distinct difference and it is recordable."
- David Edelman, PhD, A neuroscientist and a Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College
EPISODE 9: Roundtable Part Two - What is the Difference That Makes a Difference?In a continuation from their previous conversation, Neuroscientist David Edelman and Developmental Neuropsychiatrist Jay Giedd, Professor of Psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine and Director of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital are joined by Bernard Baars, the originator of the global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. In this contemplative conversation the trio touches on subjects involving how consciousness gets defined, the developing process of an adolescent human brain, and the role that sensory organs play in an individual's perception of reality.
Get your 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"Talking Points0:00 – Intro by David Edelman.2:00 – David Edelman welcomes Bernard Baars to the conversation.2:31 – Edelman initiates the discussion by revealing what consciousness means to him and how it could be reduced to main aspects (An idea which is based on his father’s views).6:22 – Baars points out that the exploration of consciousness is an idea that has been an inevitable part of humanity and a necessary trait.9:40 – Edelman and Baars discuss the importance of being able to socially broadcast your model of the world as part of the conscious experience.13:17 - Giedd and Edelman discuss whether having some type of social skills is a requirement for consciousness or if it is instead a product of it.19:12 – Jay makes a connection between social skills and the development of the cortex, its structure, and how important it appears to be for the emergence of consciousness22:12 – The development and integration of neuronal connections in the brain, responsible for essential bodily functions such as heart rate and breathing.24:35 – Is consciousness a constant or are there variations of it?26:22 – The uniqueness of the olfactory system and its close interconnectedness to the emotional system.30:31 – The sensation of smell and the human brain’s inability to recreate a memory of smell, the way it would for a visual image32:11 – Baars steers the conversation towards visual perceptional differences.34:55 – Jay Giedd discusses some of the rare conditions in humans which allow for the richer perception of external stimuli Summary of the ConversationBernard Baars has often referred to consciousness as the difference that makes a difference. When we reflect on our everyday experience versus the absence of anything attended to or recalled, as is the case during a deep, dreamless sleep or under general anesthesia — that difference which distinguishes conscious experience from the rest of our mental lives becomes quite obvious.But, how would we characterize that difference?What is it about a particular animal’s makeup — its nervous and sensory systems, its behavior, its social interactions — that singles out that animal as truly conscious?
In this episode of ‘On Consciousness’, Baars, Edelman, and Giedd explore these questions in a thought-provoking discussion, starting with their perspectives on the nature of consciousness. To begin with, David posits a relatively straightforward definition of consciousness: namely, the weaving together of different sensory threads into a coherent unified percept and the persistence of that percept in memory. Bernie then offers that humans have studied consciousness for millennia, and out of that long rumination has come the realization that teaching and learning — the process of communicating and internalizing information — is an interactive exchange of conscious thought.
This social domain of conscious experience could therefore be subsumed within an operational definition of awareness — at least in the human case. As David points out (and Jay amplifies) Bernie’s emphasis on the kind of social interchange of conscious percepts that occurs between humans doesn't take into account the long history of life on earth and in particular the many animals with complex brains and elaborate sensory faculties that have preceded us.
Human sociality is a recent evolutionary innovation, and it seems clear that some form of consciousness existed long before we came along. And, while Bernard emphasizes the idea that human sociality accommodates our conscious experience, Jay flips this on its head, suggesting instead that consciousness may be what ultimately affords our particular social lives as humans.
Moreover, for many non-human animals, survival and reproduction are contingent on social skills — but this was true long before humans walked the earth. In any case, as Jay points out, we should be able to infer whether an animal has the capacity to convey its interpretation of reality to others from the structure and function of its nervous system. Such an inference would be strongly suggestive of a rich conscious life.
Next, the conversation focuses on the role of certain brain structures and sensory faculties in defining and elaborating conscious experience. In the case of human development, we can track the emergence of different perceptual and cognitive capacities, as well as the elaboration of underlying brain areas and circuitry, from infancy well into adulthood. Thus, as Jay suggests, we could in principle observe as the capacity to weave together sensory percepts into a neural representation emerges and is elaborated in the brain of a young child. In this regard, Jay asks two questions:
1) Can consciousness be considered as being on a ‘sliding scale’ during development? 2) Would we expect developing humans to get better at weaving together conscious percepts as they grow older? With regard to evolution, radical distinctions between our sensory organs and those of animals quite distant from our phylogenetic line suggest that the varieties of conscious experience must be legion among animals. Even among humans, differences in sensory equipment must necessarily give rise to differences in conscious experience. Individuals with a condition known as Tetrachromacy — a genetic mutation that is expressed as an extra photopigment — can perceive finer gradations in the spectrum of visible light than the rest of us and are therefore capable of making color distinctions we would certainly miss. The upshot of this lively exchange is that there is, indeed, a difference that makes a difference at the core of conscious experience, and it can be both observed in developing humans and inferred from the rich evolutionary history of complex life on earth. Though Bernie, Jay, and David barely scratch the surface of this tantalizing difference here, they provide listeners with ample armamentarium to forge ahead and continue the intellectual journey on their own.BIOSDr. Jay GieddChair of child psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital-San Diego and director of child and adolescent psychiatry, Dr. Giedd is also a professor of psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine, and professor in the Dept of Population, Family and Reproductive Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Dr. Giedd was chief of the Section on Brain Imaging, Child Psychiatry Branch of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). His widely published research and expertise evaluates how the child's brain develops in health and illness, the factors that influence development and how to optimize treatments to take advantage of the child's changing brain. Jay and his award winning work were featured in the PBS 2 part series "Brains on Trial" hosted by Alan Alda.David Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Dept of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017.
He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks. Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.*Watch Episode 9 on Our YouTube Channel!
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"I want to try to understand consciousness from a neuroanatomy and neuro-function standpoint. What would consciousness look like in a brain scanner and other types of imaging? What are we looking for, in a sense, and could I predict from basically the architecture and the anatomy, that this could be conscious, and this would not be able to be conscious?"
- Dr. Jay Giedd, Developmental Neuropsychiatrist, UCSD School of Medicine, Rady Children's Hospital, and Johns Hopkins
EPISODE 8: Roundtable Part One – The Developing Brain & Consciousness – A thoughtful discussion exploring some fundamental issues that confront the science of consciousness. Namely, how do we define consciousness? What does that term mean? Where do we even start?
Neuroscientist David Edelman and Developmental Neuropsychiatrist Jay Giedd, Professor of Psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine and Director of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital talk candidly about our understanding of the complex - and often tantalizing - nature of consciousness.
In the context of the developing human brain, how can we understand consciousness? To many of us, consciousness seems like a simple, commonsense notion. When we’re awake, we all know that we are, more often than not, aware—of the world, of our thoughts and emotions, of our feeling states (i.e., hunger, thirst, pain, etc.), among others. When we fall into a deep, dreamless sleep, that awareness slips away.
But, this notion is actually quite confounding—particularly when one considers that there must be a specific moment during development when the brain transitions from a small, non-conscious organ comprising a few dozen cells to a complex, 86 billion-cell nexus of conscious feelings, emotions, and thoughts.
When, precisely, does that moment occur? In the womb? When we are just a few weeks old? These are the key questions that David Edelman and developmental neuropsychiatrist Jay Giedd ponder in this podcast.
A lively back-and-forth ensues as the two neuroscientists bring their respective backgrounds to bear on the emergence and nature of consciousness during development:
one, a neuroscientist focused on consciousness in non-human animals and the other,a psychiatrist and neuroscientist who has spent more than thirty years exploring the growth and development of the human brain from embryogenesis through childhood and adolescence well into adulthood.Along the way, David and Jay reinforce the notion that memory is a sine qua non of conscious states. As they learn to negotiate the world, very young infants experience the world with their developing senses, remember certain experiences, and then modify their behaviors accordingly.
But, when do the first substantive memories actually form? There is certainly a Rubicon that is crossed; we just haven’t figured out when it happens or what that passage looks like. Memory is a ubiquitous faculty across the animal kingdom; even relatively simple animals like the humble marine snail Aplysia can learn and remember at a fundamental level.
Are the different developmental stages of memory in growing infants comparable to the increasingly sophisticated memory faculties found in the nervous systems of ever more complex organisms?
Roundtable Part One Talking Points
0:03 – Opening lines by David Edelman.0:58 – Jay Giedd introduces himself, his background in psychiatry, robotics, and reproductive medicine, and how all of it ties together as he studies brain development.1:52 – David Edelman opens the conversation by asking about Jay Giedd’s idea ofconsciousness.2:15 – Jay Giedd looks at consciousness from the perspective of the developing brain in a fetus, particularly at what point does consciousness arise and how would that be detectable through a brain scanner.3:14 – Edelman makes a connection between Giedd’s outlook on consciousness with that of the brain’s behavior during a sleeping state.6:02 – Jay Giedd points out that a memory appears to be essential for the rise of consciousness, and how sleep, a process which no animal escaped from evolutionarily, is essential for proper memory formation.8:57 – David Edelman describes what happens in the brain while a person is asleep and proposes the idea that consciousness may have a variety of forms and that a brain’s sleeping state may be one of several.10:11 – Giedd brings up the role of dreams and our vague understanding of them.Get your 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"David and Jay highlight important questions that may provide important waypoints along the way. Towards the end of their conversation, David and Jay consider the transition from wakefulness to deep non-REM sleep and its signal importance as a transition between conscious and non-conscious states during which changes in brain activity occur that we can actually study—and that provides clues as to the nature of consciousness.
Sigmund Freud once said, “The interpretation of dreams is the royal road to a knowledge of the unconscious activities of the mind.” Though Freud was clearly referring to understanding a behavioral manifestations of a dreaming brain that may now be understood to be conscious in some sense (albeit mostly a matter of the cerebral cortex, cut off from the world, “talking to itself”), we can certainly invoke his spirit as a scientific observer in pursuit of the verifiable truth when we say that investigating the passage from wakefulness to deep sleep and back again may well help pave the royal road to understanding consciousness in the brain, whether still in the throes of development or fully formed.
Quotes from Episode 8 "There's a kind of a commonplace notion of what consciousness is. Nearly everyone sort of knows what we mean when we invoke the term. But when it comes to the actual hard-nosed scientific aspect, we really haven't arrived at any sort of consensus; at least as far as I know, there's no real consensus as to what we mean when we bring up the term, ‘consciousness.'" -- David Edelman "When do we cross that Rubicon from non-conscious processing to conscious processing? And one of the aspects that Bernie Baars and in fact my late father, Nobel Laureate Gerald Edelman delved into was certain brain states -- certain behavioral states, actually -- that have underlying brain states that are indicative perhaps of "a difference that makes a difference." And one example might be the contrast between waking states and say a dreamless deep sleep. And the fact that we can observe through brain imaging -- through a variety of techniques -- we can observe a real difference in function there." -- David Edelman "We all have different paths that we've taken to come to the study of consciousness and my path has been looking at it from the development of the brain. I'm a child, adolescent, and geriatric psychiatrist by training. I'm the Chief of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry here at UC San Diego and a professor at Fukui University in Japan in Robotics, and at Johns Hopkins in Reproductive Medicine. But what ties together my interest has been the brain and how it changes throughout life. What sort of things influenced it, in good ways and in bad ways. And looking at the brain and health and illness and what permeates all of these interests is consciousness, which is in some ways the most basic and simple notion, and also one of the most difficult to grasp." -- Jay Giedd "I want to try to understand consciousness from a neuroanatomy and neuro-function standpoint. What would consciousness look like in a brain scanner and other types of imaging? What are we looking for, in a sense, and could I predict from basically the architecture and the anatomy, that this could be conscious, and this would not be able to be conscious?" -- Jay Giedd "For me, consciousness is more about questions than answers, even after 30 years of trying. But the memory aspect is actually a really good place to start. To what extent do babies in the womb have a memory, or even after they're born?" -- Jay GieddBIOS
Dr. Jay GieddChair of child psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital-San Diego and director of child and adolescent psychiatry, Dr. Giedd is also a professor of psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine, and professor in the Dept of Population, Family and Reproductive Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Dr. Giedd was chief of the Section on Brain Imaging, Child Psychiatry Branch of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). His widely published research and expertise evaluates how the child's brain develops in health and illness, the factors that influence development and how to optimize treatments to take advantage of the child's changing brain. Jay and his award winning work were featured in the PBS 2 part series "Brains on Trial" hosted by Alan Alda.David Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Dept of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017. He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
*Watch Episode 8 on Our YouTube Channel
**Roundtable Episodes of the podcast “On Consciousness with Bernard Baars” were recorded and filmed in the dining room of the La Jolla house that was my father’s home for more than 20 years. These explorations of consciousness are a special tribute to David's Dad, Nobel Laureate Gerald Edelman, and his verdant imagination, immense creativity, prodigious output, and the many discussions about the scientific study of consciousness and biological science generally that we had within these four walls.
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