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On the podcast: Val Agostino talks about the importance of passion for the product you’re working on, how to differentiate in a crowded market, and why achieving the ‘viable’ in Minimum Viable Product is harder than ever.
Key Takeaways:📉 Ad-based revenue models too often lead to a degraded user experience. For ad-supported products, the real customer is the advertiser, not the end user. This causes a conflict between doing what’s going to create the best product and what’s going to drive the most advertising revenue.
🚀 The bar for what makes a “viable” MVP is always getting higher. While no app first ships as a fully-formed 1.0, it’s now rarely viable to launch an app as a barebones MVP (minimum viable product). There are just too many apps offering too much competition to not offer a compelling reason for a user to switch.
🔍 The “Jobs to Be Done” (JTBD) framework allows you to dig deeper than surface-level features. Gathering user feedback is essential, but users rarely request what they truly want. JTBD demands going deeper than feature requests by addressing the underlying need that the user wants to fulfill.
❓ To get to the root cause of a user problem, ask the “five whys”. When a user makes a request, get into the habit of asking “Why?”. The more times you ask, the more clarity you’ll have on what you actually need to build, giving you jobs-to-be-done that can best meet the needs of your users.
🌀How to capitalize on “black swan events”. Adaptability and swift action are key to managing unexpected high-impact events. It's essential to pivot from past decisions without being anchored by sunk costs and to act and ship quickly to capture new opportunities.
About Guest:
👨💻 Seasoned Internet entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience building groundbreaking apps.
🌿Formerly an early employee at Mint, Val had a vision for a better, more user-centered financial health app.
💡“Try to pick a problem that you want to work on for 10 years — even if it were to fail. That’s how I feel. Even if Monarch were to fail, I would feel good that we moved the ball forward, we did something, we helped people along the way.”
👋 LinkedIn
Episode Highlights:[7:54] Ads vs. subscriptions: Why subscriptions (not an ad-supported model) were Val’s first choice for Monarch.
[9:12] The real MVP: In today’s subscription app world, the bar for a minimal viable product has gone way up.
[13:46] Just ship it (or don’t?): Getting customer feedback during the design phase may take more time up front, but it means identifying your users’ key “jobs to be done” in fewer product iterations.
[23:10] The five “whys”: Ask yourself… what is your app really selling?[24:56] Disappoint-Mint: How Val went from the Mint team to creating Monarch — and what happened when Mint shut down.
[34:17] Modern marketing: Talking to potential users on forums like Reddit can be an effective way to build trust and win fans.
[36:31] The butterfly effect: What’s next for the Monarch team and business.[38:02] On a mission: Val and the Monarch team are passionate about helping users improve their financial health.
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On the podcast: Marcus Burke talks about the past, present, and future of Meta ads, tactics to scale subscription apps on Meta, and why you should probably exclude younger audiences in your targeting.
Key Takeaways:
⍰ Why Meta Ads? Its vast reach and precision targeting make Meta the best platform for discovery. Ads seamlessly integrate with organic content, providing a native experience for users and transparency for advertisers.
📈 Simplify for efficiency. Kick off with broad targeting within a consolidated account structure. As your understanding and budget deepens, become more targeted with tailored ad variations.
🎯 Strategic targeting tips. To elevate conversion rates early on, sidestep users under 25 or 30 and prefer manual campaign setups. This initial focus enhances control, paving the way for more automated refinement later on.🧘 Navigating SKAN with patience. Prioritize trial events and give the data time to crystallize into actionable insights. Rushed evaluations can deceive; allowing at least a week can provide a more accurate picture of your campaign's impact.
🦾 Harness creative diversity and precise placements. Scaling up means evolving your creative approach to suit distinct audience behaviors across Meta's diverse platforms. Meticulously analyzing demographic and placement data ensures your ads resonate more profoundly with your target audience.
🖥️ Tips for better ads. Study native content and competitors to design ads similar to what users already see. Test new creatives in separate campaigns to protect your main campaign’s performance.About Guest
👨💻 Independent consultant who helps subscription apps unlock Meta as their primary growth channel.
📈 Marcus has over a decade of experience with a background in both gaming and consumer tech, working with companies like Forge of Empires, Blinkist, and Tandem. You can also find him on LinkedIn sharing practical advice on Meta Ads, Web2App, optimizing paywalls, and improving user onboarding.
💡 “Don’t target too narrow. These algorithms usually need a lot of reach so they can use the data to find the right audience for you. If you apply a ton of targeting restrictions on top, then usually you pay a premium for targeting more granularly while performance is not necessarily better.”
👋 LinkedInEpisode Highlights
[9:18] Before and after: How Meta ad marketing changed after Apple’s App Tracking Transparency (ATT).
[17:56] Working within limits: The pros and (multiple) cons of SKAN 3.
[20:36] Into the Meta-verse: Why subscription apps are uniquely situated to benefit from Meta ads.
[23:40] (Best) practice makes perfect: How to optimize Meta ad campaigns to find the right audiences and maximize ROI.
[32:56] Right on target: Unlock your app’s advertising potential with more advanced creative and placement strategies.
[35:06] The other half of the equation: Ads are just the beginning of the customer journey — make sure your entire funnel is a seamless and compelling experience for potential users.
[48:25] Get creative: For the best ad performance and ROI, create ad content that matches what your users are looking for on social platforms.[52:13] The future is bright: Upcoming developments like SKAN 4 and Meta’s Aggregated Event Measurement (AEM) should make creating and analyzing Meta ads easier.
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On the podcast: David talks about the many failures of his recent app launch, the surprising results of his first-ever A/B test, and the many reasons why you shouldn’t plan a big app launch.
Top Takeaways:🔄 Continuous evolution over big bangs: For subscription apps, frequent updates create enduring value, outpacing the impact of sparse, major launches. This steady stream of enhancements keeps your app relevant and signals relentless improvement to your audience.
🌱 Opt for flexible launches: Avoid putting all your hopes in one major launch. A strategy that includes multiple, smaller launches allows for adaptability and maintains your app's presence against the backdrop of an unpredictable news cycle.
📰 Press is unpredictable: Understand that media coverage does not guarantee app success. The broad reach may not always align with your target audience and many factors are outside of your control. Keep swinging, though, as some hits will indeed make a substantial impact — just keep your expectations in check.
💰 Adopt value-based pricing: Pricing should reflect what customers value in your app, not just the costs to provide it. Value-based pricing doesn't necessarily mean charging more, it just means charging the perceived value. Users don’t care about the costs of providing a service.
🔍 A/B testing insights depend on the nature of the cohort. The origin of your app's users — e.g. via launch events or organic growth — plays a crucial role in interpreting A/B test results. What did or didn’t work for one group isn’t necessarily applicable for the next — so test and draw conclusions appropriately.
About Guest:👨💻 Growth advocate at RevenueCat and indie developer of apps like Launch Center Pro and Weather Up.
🍎 Although he’s neither a designer nor a developer, David has been building the kinds of thoughtful, intuitive apps he wants to use since the App Store first launched in 2008.
💡 “The tough thing about getting attention is you do have to do something unique… and that’s the trade-off. The calculus for me was, ‘Let’s wait and try to make a big splash with all these things.’ But really, we could have already launched the widget, and just adding interaction would have gotten attention.”
👋 LinkedIn | Twitter
Episode Highlights:[11:04] Just ship it: Don’t try to release a ton of new features at once — you’ll get more attention and benefits by releasing incremental updates.
[23:11] Failure to launch: What’s the worst that can happen on your app launch day? A major Apple announcement!
[32:09] Riding the wave: Offering a launch-day sale on your app is a great way to increase conversions when you release a major update.
[36:16] The value of value-based pricing: Set your app’s price based on your target customer’s perceived value of your solution, not your idea of how much it’s worth and costs to run.[42:54] Dog-fooding the ’cat: David used several RevenueCat features (like Paywalls and Experiments) to set up and monitor the results of the Weather Up 3.0 launch.
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On the podcast: RevenueCat’s 2024 State of Subscription Apps report, the state of the app industry more broadly, and why a slight drop in renewals in 2023 isn’t as bad as it may seem.
Key insights:
📈 Optimize conversion rates: With a 1.7% average conversion rate from downloads to paying subscribers, there's a wide gap indicating room for improvement. North America shows higher conversions, spotlighting the need for regional price optimization.
🗓️ Persistence pays off: The top 5% of apps outearn the bottom quartile by 200 times a year post-launch. If year one is tough, consider pivoting or trying a new approach.
🗺️ Strategic focus is key: North America leads in app revenue, but don't overlook markets like South Korea, Japan, and India. Choosing the right platform and regional focus is crucial.
💲 Retention is crucial: A 14% drop in subscriber retention highlights the need for apps to focus on retaining users who truly value their service. It's vital to distinguish between loyal users and those less engaged.
📱 Reactivation grows with scale: While over 10% of churned subscribers resubscribe, reactivation becomes significantly more impactful as your app grows. Early on, prioritize acquisition and retention over win-back campaigns.
About Guests
🎙️David Barnard is Growth Advocate at RevenueCat and host of this very podcast.
👋🏼David’s LinkedIn
💻Jacob Eiting is the CEO of RevenueCat, a self-proclaimed computer person, and often co-hosts this podcast with David.
👋🏼Jacob’s LinkedIn
Links & ResourcesCheck out RevenueCat online
Episode Highlights
[1:31] Weathering the storm: After several years of turmoil in the subscription app industry, things finally started to settle down in 2023 — and app businesses are thriving.[7:12] The business of intelligence: AI technology leapt forward in 2023, and mobile AI apps saw big wins.
[14:07] Stop guessing, start acting: The benchmarks in the 2023 State of Subscription Apps report can help you make data-driven strategic decisions.
[17:37] The state of the (app) union: Five key takeaways from the report that identify industry trends, potential pitfalls, and emerging opportunities.
[38:44] First impressions matter: Most trial starts occur within 24 hours, so make sure your user onboarding experience is compelling.
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On the podcast: How to build a content marketing flywheel, the importance of content that’s inherently valuable, and why you shouldn’t give up on content marketing even if your early attempts only get a few views.
🛠️ Validate your app idea with minimal resources. Use a simple mock-up and some way to drive paid or organic traffic to gauge interest before development. Fares Ksebati tested demand for an app that didn’t exist by collecting emails via a basic website. This lean approach confirmed interest with over 200 sign-ups, showcasing an effective, low-cost validation method.
🌱 Startup accelerators: a selective boost for early ventures. For newcomers like Fares, accelerators are goldmines for skills in customer discovery and networking. They're most valuable for startups without a solid network or those aligned with the accelerator's focus. While they sharpen your pitch and connect you with mentors, their benefits may wane as your business matures. Choose one that fits your app's niche for the best impact.
🏃♂️ Content marketing is a marathon, not a sprint. Fares’s journey with MySwimPro underscores that content marketing requires patience and passion. Initially focusing on answering common swimming questions, the strategy wasn't about quick wins but building trust and brand over time. Early content may not drive immediate app usage spikes, but it lays the foundation for brand recognition and credibility.
💸 Great content transcends user acquisition and unlocks direct monetization. Establishing a significant online presence, particularly on platforms like YouTube, offers dual benefits: attracting new users and generating revenue through ads and brand partnerships. This strategy highlights the power of creating engaging, value-driven content that not only draws in subscribers but also opens additional revenue streams.
🔍 The biggest mistake when experimenting with paid acquisition is not having the right analytics in place. Success in paid acquisition hinges on robust analytics for tracking campaign effectiveness and the ability to quickly adjust strategies. Without confidence in attribution and the ability to iterate quickly, budgets can be wasted on ineffective ads and you won’t be able to scale.
💬 Effective value communication eases the shift from free to paid subscriptions. Transitioning users from free to premium features necessitates a clear demonstration of added benefits. While consumers are increasingly willing to pay for software, that comes with higher expectations. But it’s important to remember that some users will always complain about price, regardless of cost, while some will always be willing to pay for the most premium subscription. Getting pricing right is a constant balance of qualitative user psychology with data-driven insight.
About Guest:👨💻 Co-Founder and CEO of MySwimPro, an app that provides personalized workouts and training plans for swimmers.
🏊 An accomplished swimmer himself, Fares created MySwimPro to help swimmers of all skill levels improve their performance — even if they don’t have a team or coach.
💡 “With content marketing, you have to do one of three things: You have to either educate people, entertain them, or inspire them. Now, if you're really good at any one of those, that's great. But if you're amazing, you can do multiple at the same time.”👋 LinkedIn
Links & Resources:
Connect with Fares on TwitterCheck out MySwimProWatch MySwimPro on YouTubeEpisode Highlights:
[3:41] Fake it ‘til you make it: In 2014, Fares validated the idea for MySwimPro by driving traffic to a website for an app that didn’t exist yet.
[10:07] Don’t reinvent the wheel: Use tools that already exist (like Google and YouTube) to find what potential users are searching for and get the word out about your app.
[19:38] Changing the channel: Your app should have a presence on the social channels that best fit the brand and marketing acquisition funnel you’re trying to build.
[23:59] Content marketing pays off (literally): Monetize your marketing content with ads and brand partnerships for an additional revenue stream.
[30:33] Start simple: These days, making great marketing content is easier than ever — all you need is a smartphone and an inexpensive microphone.
[42:12] The price is… wrong?: Some of your users are willing to pay more than what you’re charging, and developing new pricing packages can unlock more revenue.
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On 25th January, Apple published its guidance on how it would comply with the EU’s Digital Markets Act (DMA). The response, in keeping with Apple’s response to other demands for reforms, effectively disincentivizes most apps from taking advantage of the changes. The changes are complex and confusing, and the answer to whether apps should make changes isn’t completely black-and-white.
To help developers navigate these changes, we pulled together an “emergency” episode featuring RevenueCat’s CEO Jacob Eiting and Head of Product Jens-Fabian Goetzmann, Runway CEO Gabriel Savit, and Nico Wittenborn, founder of Adjacent.
Here are the discussion’s key takeaways:📲 The DMA Reforms How App Stores Work in the EU — The DMA mandates that app stores, like Apple's, cannot enforce the use of first-party app stores or in-app payment systems in the EU. Android already supports third-party app stores (sideloading), so Google’s focus has been on offering alternative payments via “user-choice billing”. For Apple, which does not support sideloading, the EU reforms have needed to be much more significant.
🔓 Apple Releases Opt-In New Business Terms — Apple’s response was to introduce an optional new set of business terms with a dizzying number of changes to fees and choices for developers. By opting-in, developers unlock new ways to distribute their app and charge users, but doing so comes with changes to and additions to fees paid to Apple. The changes are complex enough that developers have to analyze the implications very carefully.
🌀Fee Structure of the New Terms is a Complex Maze — Apple's new terms introduce a convoluted fee structure, where reduced commissions are coupled with the Core Technology Fee (CTF), where developers pay €0.50 for the first annual install over a 1M threshold. The CTF includes not just first-time installs, but first annual re-installs and updates from first and third-party app stores as well. This install fee effectively means that any high volume low average revenue per user (ARPU) app is likely to lose out by accepting the new terms.
🛑 Third-party App Stores Unviable for All but the Biggest Players — The new terms aren’t so rosy for potential new “marketplace apps”, either. New app stores will not be exempt from the CTF, making the first 3M downloads of the marketplace app itself cost the operator €1M — €0.50 per install over the 1M download threshold. And then apps within that marketplace also have to pay the CTF fee. This means that opening a third-party app store is unviable except for the very biggest attempts or for stores that have a high-charge per install (e.g. a game marketplace where users pay a relatively high one-off fee per game).
🔍 There Might Be Strategic Opportunities, but They Remain to Be Seen — Yes, most apps seem to be better off sticking with the original terms. But there might be opportunities for niche apps. For example, apps that have a low volume of installs but high ARPU (by having a costly yearly subscription, for example) might be able to absorb the CTF, even considering yearly updates. An additional as-yet unexplored change is that Apple has introduced 600 new APIs, meaning that there’s an opening for new third-party applications and integrations.
About Guests📱Gabriel Savit is CEO of Runway, a release platform for iOS and Android apps. Find Gabriel on X and on LinkedIn.
💲Nico Wittenborn is Founder of Adjacent, an early-stage VC firm. Find Nico on X and on LinkedIn.
😺Jens-Fabian Goetzmann is Head of Product at RevenueCat
Links & Resources
These aren’t the only concessions Apple has recently had to make. Earlier this month, the Supreme Court ordered that Apple needed to allow developers to link to alternative payment methods in the US. Read more about what those changes mean.On the RevenueCat blog, we’ve written up an overview of this podcast and included additional details that weren’t covered on the podcast and/or have come to light since the recording.
Episode Highlights
[2:31] What is the Digital Markets Act (DMA)? It’s a series of directives set by the EU that aim to limit the dominance of large tech platforms, dubbed “gatekeepers” (of which Apple and Google are a part), and provide more choices to developers and end-users.
[10:34] The principal decision that developers need to make in response to Apple’s changes is: do we switch to the new terms or remain on the old? Right now, there is no indication that it’s a two-way door.
[13:34] When opting into the new terms, there are effectively four separate models: stay distributing through the App Store using Apple’s IAPs; stay distributing through the App Store but use alternative payment providers; distribute instead on a third-party marketplace using alternative payments; or distribute on both the App Store and third-party marketplaces.[15:47] The Core Technology Fee (CTF), in the new terms, charges developers €0.50 per first annual app install on installs above the 1M threshold. This includes first annual reinstalls and updates, and it’s the CTF that is fundamentally making the economics of new terms unviable for most developers.
[30:24] Why haven’t third-party marketplaces taken off on Android? It’s probably down to the size of the opportunity. Most apps, even if they’re multiplatform, make most of their money on iOS. Now that the possibility of third-party marketplaces is available on the most profitable platform, it suddenly becomes worth looking into.
[41:41] There are instances where creating a third-party marketplace would be financially beneficial, such as a premium game distribution platform — higher-priced games ($20+) would negate the disadvantages shown by the CTF.
[47:03] Unless things change, 99% of developers should probably not switch to the new terms. At best, it’s a bad idea, at worst it’s a huge distraction with the risk of owing Apple more in fees than revenue generated. There is a small subset of apps that could benefit, but those apps know who they are, and they’ll find a way to test the waters and mitigate the risk involved.
[52:48] Another opportunity is the 600 new APIs that Apple is making available. It’s too early to say what that opportunity will look like, but there are likely to be some innovative third-party applications to come out of it.
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On the podcast: The strategic pitfalls in modeling Total Addressable Market, how freemium should work, and why Surfline’s current success was actually 38 years in the making.
Top Takeaways:🎯SAM not TAM — The total addressable market (TAM) provides an overview of the market's potential size, but it's too general for strategic purposes. The serviceable addressable market (SAM) more accurately reflects the market portion you can realistically capture.
$ Understanding Price Sensitivity — Price sensitivity involves three key elements: Purchasing power (your market's ability to buy), commitment (likelihood of investing in your app), and value proposition (the value your app offers).
⚖️The Freemium Balance — Success in freemium models hinges on balancing increased conversions with retaining free users. If prioritizing one over the other becomes necessary, focus on retention to allow time for app improvements.
📈Growing Freemium Conversion Rates — A small percentage of free users convert to premium. The strength of freemium lies in its potential for increased conversion rates as your app improves and retains free users over time.
🤝Monetizing Through Partnerships — For free users, displaying ads can monetize the audience that may not convert. For premium users, focus on partnerships offering exclusive deals or benefits to enhance value and average revenue per user (ARPU).
About Guest:
👨💻 Vice President of Strategy, Business Development, and Analytics at Surfline, an app that provides surfers updates on current wave conditions.🏄 An avid surfer himself, Paul joined the Surfline team because he was passionate about the product.
💡 “The biggest issue that I see with most companies that are going out to market and putting together their commercial strategy is they'll use TAM and they'll model everything off of that… But in reality… it's really important to figure out what the serviceable addressable market is.”
👋 LinkedIn
🏄♂️ Check out Surfline
Episode Highlights:
[4:11] The 38-year-old startup: Surfline was originally founded as a 1-800 phone number in 1985 and added consumer subscriptions in 2001 (before Netflix did!).
[5:57] When TAM fails: Total addressable market (TAM) is an unrealistic number for modeling the number of users you’re likely to get — instead, calculate the serviceable addressable market (SAM).[14:46] Different approaches to TAM: You can calculate TAM from the top down or bottom up, whichever makes more sense for your business.
[19:04] The formula for price sensitivity: To effectively price your app, you need to understand (1) your users’ purchasing power, (2) your users’ level of commitment, and (3) the strength of your value proposition.
[24:40] Keeping the “free” in freemium: Remember to balance conversions with free user retention — it’s much easier to convert existing free users than it is to acquire brand-new users.
[37:48] Ads for all: Consider partnering with relevant brands to provide special offers to further monetize your paid subscribers.
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On the podcast: Scaling to $5M in ARR on paid ads, positive and negative results from 121 A/B tests, and why they still haven’t built an Android app.
💡 The Power of a Single Metric: Concentrating on just one key metric can be remarkably effective. In the early stages, it's common to take on too much. By zeroing in on a solitary metric, it becomes simpler to iterate and conduct large-scale testing.
👀 Subscriptions as a Market Fit Gauge: The subscription model acts as a litmus test for your app's value. Gating access early and observing if users are willing to pay offers clear evidence of your app's worth.
💬 Flexibility in Attribution Methods: There's no one-size-fits-all approach to attribution. Various apps adopt diverse strategies. Often, straightforward methods like asking users about their discovery path during onboarding can be the most reliable.
🤳🏼 Prioritizing Creativity in Paid Marketing: If your strategy leans heavily on paid marketing, expect to dedicate at least 80% of your efforts to crafting creative content. For smaller teams, collaborating with content creators and influencers can be an effective strategy for scaling.
📱 Choosing a Single Platform for Initial Launch: Easing early-stage challenges is feasible by focusing on a single platform. Many startups overextend by launching on multiple platforms simultaneously. Opting for a single platform, such as iOS, allows you to concentrate your limited resources on achieving initial milestones before considering a broader launch.
About Guest:
👨💻 Founder and CEO of Opal, an app that helps users limit their screen time and find focus.📱 Even though iOS includes screen time management tools, Kenneth and his team believed they could improve the experience – and that users would pay for it.
💡 “Essentially, if you get people to pay for your products… that's a pretty strong signal that you have something pretty valuable.”
👋 LinkedIn
Connect with Kenneth via LinkedInCheck out Opal: https://www.opal.so/ X: https://twitter.com/kschlenker
Links & Resources:Episode Highlights:
[1:09] A three-phase approach: How the Opal team tackled building a subscription business for a screen time management app.
[4:54] When ad spend is worth it: Opal implemented paid marketing from the beginning – and it paid off.
[10:44] Attribution made easy: Sometimes the simplest method of finding out where users came from – just asking them! – is the most useful.
[13:08] Contracting creatives: Consider hiring independent contractors who care about your mission to build your ad content.
[17:22] From premium to freemium: Many apps (like Duolingo) start out free, then add paid subscriptions later. Opal is doing the opposite.
[25:53] Work smarter, not harder: Releasing your app on a single platform (instead of iOS, Mac, web, and Android all at once) can save your team a lot of time and money.
[30:07] Lessons from 121 A/B tests: Prioritize the bigger swings that will significantly increase your uplift early on.
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On the podcast: How to pitch your app to the press, the importance of focusing on differentiation, and why customizing your pitch to an individual writer is so much more effective.
Top Takeaways:
PR for user acquisition (UA) is best suited for acquiring very specific users. If you’re looking for big numbers then there are better channels to use. But PR allows you to pinpoint your UA to reach smaller, higher-intent audiences, such as early adopters or power users, who help you fulfill a particular goal.
When working with PR agencies or consultants, know what kind of outcome you’re after. For apps that just want to reach a wide audience, a firm focused more on outreach at scale might be sufficient. But most apps will benefit more from a strategist who will help craft deep meaningful stories over the long-term.
When pitching, think about the writer, not just the publication. Find the writer who will have the greatest personal interest in your story — not only will your pitch success rate be higher, but the subsequent write-up will be much more meaningful and useful to you down the road.
Keep your email pitch brief and your press-kit comprehensive. Use the subject line and body copy to highlight uniqueness; feel free to use images but keep it brief. Your press kit, however, should provide enough detail for the journalist to write their story out-of-the-box — but don’t go as far as to write it yourself.
To effectively pitch your app to TechCrunch, specifically, focus on what sets your app apart. A well-executed idea with quality design is just the starting point. Elevate your pitch by highlighting unique features and differentiation. Adding personal stories can further enhance the appeal and depth of your pitch.
About Guest:👨💻 Former Editor-in-Chief of TechCrunch.
✍️ With over 14 years of experience as a tech journalist, Matthew is an expert in the art of the pitch.
💡 “Those stories tend to be the most potent, valuable, and interesting long term, especially for early-stage companies. You convert somebody into a believer, a believer in the thing that you’re doing, the thing that you’re trying to accomplish, the mission that you have. And those writers will become sort of chroniclers of your progress over time. If you’re able to capture one or two of those [writers] ... to get into the minds and hearts of individual writers at a publication, it’s so much more valuable than, ‘Oh, we got covered by Publication X.’”
👋 LinkedIn
Links & Resources:
Connect with Matthew via LinkedInCheck out TechCrunch - https://techcrunch.com/
Episode Highlights:[1:12] Pitch perfect: How to pitch your app to a tech reporter in a cold email (that they’ll actually read).
[14:01] Stand out from the crowd: A competitor’s downtime or failure may be a good opportunity to market your app, but it isn’t enough — you need to highlight your app’s differentiating features, too.
[18:05] Know your audience: Choose not only the right publication but also the right reporter to write about your app.
[26:41] Broad versus targeted UA: Getting your app featured in a publication like TechCrunch can help you acquire a highly interested group of users (early adopters, power users, and people who will send you feedback).
[38:12] The big leagues: What TechCrunch is looking for in a pitch.
[45:15] To PR or not to PR?: Whether or not you should work with a PR firm depends on your app.
[48:18] The whole kit and caboodle: Create a press kit that makes it easy for a journalist to tell your app’s story.
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On the podcast: Phil's Subscription Value Loop framework, what it means to create robust value for customers, and why A/B testing shouldn't be your first step in price optimization.
Top Takeaways:
📈Quantitative growth models can help inform your growth strategy. These models are built around key user actions and growth loops incorporating variables like acquisition, retention, and monetization. They serve not just to align the company around common growth objectives but also as a tool to identify strategic leverage points for driving user and revenue growth.
📲The subscription value loop can model successful consumer subscription apps. This loop, devised by Phil Carter, is a framework for consumer subscription apps that focuses on value creation, delivery, and capture. It identifies the most impactful areas to allocate resources, aiding in decision-making for product development and marketing strategies. It emphasizes the importance of balancing value creation for the user with the business's need to capture value, ensuring a sustainable and efficient growth model.
🔁The 4Rs of value creation — robust, rapid, repeatable, remarkable — emphasize creating a product that solves real customer problems with strong product market fit, delivering value quickly, ensuring long-term engagement and value through repeatable benefits, and being compelling enough to spark word-of-mouth promotion. This framework guides in developing products that not only meet immediate user needs but also maintain their relevance and appeal over time.
💲Value delivery is efficiently connecting users to your valuable product. The playbook of relying on paid marketing to acquire users no longer works, due to increased app store competition and reduced efficiencies caused by ATT. The healthiest subscription app businesses are built on a robust organic acquisition strategy as a foundation, where paid ads are supplementary.
🎯The 5Ps of value capture — paywall, pricing & packaging, payments, promotions — focus on the strategic elements crucial for monetizing a subscription app. Paywall strategies should, as well as adopt general best practices, be tightly aligned with the nature of the app; pricing & packaging perhaps offer the greatest leverage for later-stage apps; payments is about an awareness of alternative payment methods and ensuring you have a clear and transparent payment flow; and promotions should be thoughtful and targeted.
About Guest:👨💻Founder and CEO of Elemental Growth, an advising consultancy focused on helping app businesses unlock their potential.
🔁 Phil developed the Subscription Value Loop, a framework for understanding how to maximize growth in consumer app businesses.
💡 “If you don't have a repeatable value prop that can sustain long-term retention, and your primary growth loop is paid ads, that's where you see a graveyard of companies that have just completely failed.”👋 LinkedIn
Connect with Phil via LinkedInCheck out his website - www.philgcarter.comFind Phil on X: @philgcarterCheck out his Consumer Subscription Growth Course
Links & Resources:Companies Phil has helped:
Quizlet (https://www.quizlet.com/)Faire (https://www.faire.com/)Ibotta (https://www.ibotta.com/)Matter (https://hq.getmatter.com/)Save My Exams (https://www.savemyexams.com/)uDocz (https://www.udocz.com/)Knowunity (https://www.knowunity.com/)Rise (https://www.risescience.com/)Episode Highlights:
[0:44] From consultant to growth guru: Phil’s journey into the subscription growth world began with mission-driven app businesses like Quizlet.
[5:25] What you need to know to grow: Any quantitative growth model will be “wrong”… but you’ll learn so much building one, you should still do it.
[8:30] The Subscription Value Loop: A framework for identifying product-market fit, building a remarkable solution, and investing profits into shoring up your competitive advantage.
[13:48] The 40% rule: Determine product-market fit by how disappointed customers would be if they could no longer use your app.
[23:05] Perfecting the elevator pitch: A great app onboarding experience is snappy, immersive, and packs a punch.
[33:32] Avoid churn: Build repeatable experiences designed to bring users back again and again.
[38:24] Go viral: Find out how to get and keep your users talking.
[45:37] Organic is healthier: In today’s crowded (and post-ATT) app stores, paid ads can’t realistically be your primary growth lever.
[50:22] Keep the engine running: Balancing how much value you capture versus provide can be a challenge — especially when it comes to free users.
[1:11:12] The price is right: How to determine the optimal packaging and pricing for your app.
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On the podcast: Profitably scaling TikTok ads, price optimization, and what the team learned from burning hundreds of thousands of dollars on Instagram ads.
Top Takeaways
📈 Use Micro-Influencers for Early Growth: Niche influencers with between 10k-100k followers provide a direct source to a highly relevant audience. Ladder incentivized Instagram influencers, while the app was in a very early stage, by offering a revenue share; this reinforced the collaborative nature of the partnership and made it financially viable for Ladder. (00:02:39)
💲Adapt Your Pricing Based on Your Core User: Be adaptable with your pricing model based on customer research and feedback. Ladder shifted from a higher price point to a lower one as they learnt more about what value proposition was for their core users. To reach this conclusion, they surveyed their users and analyzed the data using Van Westendorp's pricing analysis. (00:19:36)
🕺🏽Maximize TikTok by Tailoring Your Content: Whereas on Instagram you’re gradually building up an audience, on TikTok you should assume posts are reaching a unique audience every time. This means content on TikTok needs to be made for TikTok — it needs to either entertain or educate, edited in the TikTok style, and should work in isolation without prior knowledge. (00:41:04)
🕸️Using a Web Funnel to Optimize Ad Spend: Ladder efficiently targets the right TikTok audience by directing them to a web quiz. This strategy quickly reveals user preferences, bypassing longer conversion funnels. By embedding pixels in quiz questions, they gain real-time insights into ad performance, enabling rapid optimization of ad spend. (00:49:38)
🪜 Building a Retention Mechanism within the App: By building your product around retention metrics, you’ll naturally build a retentive product. For Ladder, its use of team chats are wildly popular, creating accountability and motivation in its users. And because these social elements drive so much consistency and retention, they work hard on driving users to these chats as quickly as possible. (01:04:49)
About Greg Stewart📱CEO and Founder of Ladder, a fitness app dedicated to providing the world's best strength training plan from the world's best coaches, every single day.
💪 Greg took Ladder from zero to a million dollars in ARR with a zealous early focus on product iteration.
💡 “As a consumer business, I have learned that there is no muscle more important than growth — investing in growth, product-side growth, [and] retention. To have those learnings and that dial being controlled outside the building now makes no sense whatsoever to me.”
👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter
Links & Resources‣ Connect with Greg via LinkedIn
‣ Connect with Greg on X
‣ Join Ladder
‣ Ladder on X
Episode Highlights[0:54] Covid obstacles: Ladder launched during the pandemic but was initially geared toward gym goers. Early UA wasn’t about focus on revenue, but on product iteration to validate product-market fit.
[4:35] Loyal followings: Instagram microinfluencers were a key part of Ladder’s early strategy for driving UA — aiming for “perfect alignment” with fitness coaches.
[8:34] Onboarding: Ladder had a specific method for recommending programming based on lead source.
[12:41] From influencer to team member: The right partners were a fundamental part of Ladder’s success, not as a creator or tool-based platform but as a consumer business.
[16:46] Hardcore product iteration: Greg and his team built a set of tools for coaches after they hit a million dollars in ARR.
[22:54] Honest ad lessons: Instead of focusing on ad optimization and efficiency, Ladder asked how to tell the right stories to the right people.
[24:40] Decreasing price: The team went deep on analysis before lowering the price, with a single-minded commitment to Ladder as a customer-based business.
[30:35] New Year’s resolutions: A lack of growth following their best month ever mobilized Ladder to create a framework leading to effective growth loops.
[34:07] TikTok tactics: With diminishing returns from their Instagram efforts, Greg and his team decided to forge a new path via TikTok, which ultimately paid off.
[39:20] Money where your mouth is: “Organic is the best indication of winning content,” Greg says. But engaging content needs an effective CTA. The roundabout but telling answer is to understand your customer and provide value rather than paying too much attention to acquisition or monetization.
[48:29] CTAs that work: To reel them in, be upfront and direct to customers — and offer verifiable results.
[49:56] Hacking algorithms: Web quizzes are winners for identifying buyer personas, driving a critical move for managing spend.
[57:05] Bye-bye, LTV:CAC: Payback period is much easier to grapple with than variables that are out of the control of the team, helping Ladder to iterate on its annual offering thanks to a good handle on retention.
[1:05:06] High retention: Relentless focus on the customer’s view and experience is the key to driving UA and retention.
[1:14:56] Skeptical prerogative: Rather than building copycats and raising money, ensure there’s a clear differentiator around which the entire business is built. That way lies growth and scaling.
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On the podcast: Landing PR for a niche app, negotiating strategic partnerships, and pretending to have an app helped validate that he should build one.
Top Takeaways
🚀 Validate Early and Build Smartly: Start by validating your app idea with minimal investment — even just an image or a spreadsheet. Once validated, focus on creating an MVP that delivers core value to your users, allowing for effective market testing and valuable feedback. (01:06—11:00)
🎯 Mix Up Your Early Marketing: Early on, explore a mix of marketing tactics, both paid and organic, such as Apple Search Ads and targeted PR. Adapt quickly to focus on strategies that drive early user growth and traction. (11:00—14:06)
✍️ Craft Ready-to-Publish Stories for Media Pick-Up: Develop complete, compelling narratives about your app. A story that's ready-made and engaging eases journalists' workloads and increases the likelihood of your app getting featured. (12:34—15:58)
🤝 How to Close Early Partnerships: When approaching potential partnerships as an early app startup, remember that you’re a risk, so highlight your business’s reliability and responsiveness. Be proactive and flexible in negotiations, demonstrating your commitment to deliverables and reducing perceived risk to partners. (17:02—22:55)
🌐 The Broader Impact of Partnerships: Recognize that the value of partnerships extends beyond direct metrics like user acquisition. They are instrumental in building credibility, social proof points, and establishing a presence in your niche, which leads to organic growth and further collaborative opportunities. (34:41—38:13)
About Adam Allore👨💻 Founder and CEO of Wavve Boating, an app that provides a better marine navigation experience that’s easy, collaborative, and fun.
⚓ Adam initially wanted to build a nautical navigation map that he would use, until he organized himself a booth at a boat show that ultimately led to him building the app thanks to overwhelming positive feedback.
💡 “The quantity of emails that we got was one thing, but seeing people light up and get excited by the app and experience that I built was what gave me that confidence to quit my job, pursue this thing full time, and make the beta a reality that I was telling people about.”
👋 LinkedIn
Links & Resources‣ Connect with Aaron via LinkedIn
‣ Check out Wavve Boating
‣ Adam talking about the Wavve App
‣ Wavve Boating on X, formerly known as Twitter
Episode Highlights[1:10] Ahoy, sailor: Working as an engineer, Adam realized that people struggled to read nautical navigation maps, which provided the inception point for Wavve Boating.
[4:53] Fake it till you make it: Taking the scrappy route can sometimes be the best path to kickstarting your idea — even if it requires a bit of hustle.
[7:26] Just build the beta: Even the bare MVP can be enough to attract investors and users. Unique product insight is where the margin really comes from.
[11:18] Gaining traction: Adam took a shotgun marketing approach before landing on app-based PR hits with a promising community element.
[17:15] Press power: Aaron assumed the initial press outreach kickoff would drive major user growth — it added value and drove recognition in the space (and yes, some user acquisition).
[20:26] Proactive negotiation: Potential partners (especially large ones) may view small startups as a risk — subscription app developers should aim to mitigate that risk.
[26:14] Basement finance plan: Panic led to solid planning as Adam reached out to the local angel network to raise capital and get things going, including a deal that represented his first foray into B2B sales.
[29:24] Market flows: Deep link usage for the paywall was one thing, but what really paid off for the app was ensuring it was as easy to activate and use as possible.
[32:05] DevOps on the cheap: Building for the addressable market of one company could pay off bigger if you take that idea elsewhere — if you know the business. Be careful about which projects you take on, as they may ultimately prove distractions.
[35:00] Partner-driven UA: 25% of Wavve’s total UA comes from partnerships. But plenty of users come through untracked and organic channels.
[37:29] Leveraging reality: Get the PR right, and landing partnerships can quickly snowball into further opportunities.
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On the podcast: The ultimate freemium strategy, making low-risk bets with potentially asymmetrical outcomes, and how Aaron bounced back after almost running out of money.
Top Takeaways
📐As an app startup, while in the early stages of growth, you need to find the one KPI that you’re going to choose to focus on. “Startups can do one thing, barely,” says Foss, so find the KPI that shows that your app is working as intended and that users are finding value. For Nomorobo, this was robocalls blocked; if this KPI grew, then the app was doing its job and users were signing up.
🚀 Not every launch needs to go off with a bang. For Aaron Foss, there’s too much that can go wrong. Soft launches allow you to launch when you’re ready, not when your deadline says you are. You have the benefit of seeing and catching bugs before your app becomes overwhelmed with users.
🌱 To grow organically, and only organically, requires that you find the growth “hacks” that leverage what you already have. For Nomorobo, this meant making use of a free web user base to promote the paid app; programmatic SEO landing pages built using the data they were collecting; and using that data to outreach to the press with relevant stories.
🔎 The benefit of growing slowly and sustainably is that constraints lead to greater focus. When raising money to accelerate your business, it’s easy to overextend and do too many things at once. A slow, gradual approach forces you to focus on what’s the most important thing right now.
🛣️ Freemium works best when you consider it a user acquisition path, not a revenue model, and when those free users deliver additional business value. Being free will bring you more users, but what else do those free users deliver to your business? For Nomorobo, free users on the landline side bring in data to improve the mobile product, which can then be upsold to turn free users into paid.
About Aaron Foss👨💻 Founder of Nomorobo, an app that stops annoying robocalls and spam texts forever.
💪 With a background in programming and an MBA, Aaron built an entire product to stop robocalls from the ground up.
💡 “This is Apple’s world: We just live in it. How insane is it to start an app company building an app that is against App Store rule?”
👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter
Links & Resources‣ Connect with Aaron via LinkedIn
‣ Check out Nomorobo
‣ Check out this Mixergy interview about Aaron’s entrepreneurship journey
‣ Read up on how Aaron beat robocalls for good
Episode Highlights[1:25] The end of apps?: Aaron was between selling his last company and looking for the next challenge when the clarion call came from the FTC to tackle robocalls.
[3:46] From telephony to commerce: For Aaron, $50K signaled that there was a big incentive to solve the problem of robocalls. The size of the bounty drove him to try to develop an innovative solution using existing technology.
[12:26] Close to the chest: Getting a product out validates whether spending your life building it is a good idea or not. Aaron found that the only way to win the competition was using SimRing, but he didn’t go into detail when pitching it.
[13:39] Post-win gameplan: Twilio (and a lot of negotiation) was the key to building the foundations of early Nomorobo.
[17:44] Monetization turning point: As one of the first subscription apps with in-app purchases, Nomorobo’s inflection point was the introduction of mobile apps. It turned out that a price point of $1.99 was cheaper when running with Apple.
[21:47] Big bang, no thanks: The demand to solve the problem of spammy robocalls meant Nomorobo never needed to do any paid acquisition.
[25:43] Hiring decisions: Going from solo to building a team is never an easy leap. Aaron found that the first step was to break off customer support, and another key was to work with contractors while remaining small and scrappy.
[30:59] Relaxed raising: The company found that raising on an as-needed basis worked perfectly well for their setup, but it didn’t come without its trials. Case in point: the white-knuckle $944 in the bank account that Aaron admits they were lucky to pull off.
[35:16] Top growth levers: While Nomorobo never paid for advertising, it had to grow. How did it manage to, and why is landline protection still free?
[42:38] Press management: With landline freemium strategy and programmatic SEO locked down, the next phase was managing press and getting featured by Apple.
[47:41] Life-changing money: Like Frank Sinatra, Aaron did things his way. He shares the story of the eight-figure exit.
[53:17] Value creation: If you want to run a business, it must create value. The more value you create, the more money you make.
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On the podcast: How to profitably scale performance marketing, hard vs soft activation, and why you should keep an extra close eye on your marketing spend in November.
Top Takeaways
⬇️ To effectively scale your performance marketing, grasp your app's funnel from the top down. Start by honing in on app installs, enabling both you and the algorithms to learn. Progress down the funnel — optimizing for different app events as you go — but be prepared for corresponding budget hikes. Throughout this journey, continually test and iterate.
⏲️ Test your ATT prompt timing, starting with first app launch. While the ideal placement for an ATT prompt may vary per app, consider starting your tests with the prompt at first app launch. Surprisingly, this timing has shown minimal impact on sign-ups, trials, and conversions in some cases. Use this as a baseline for your own tests to find the most effective timing for your app.
🎨 Feed your always-on campaigns with rigorously tested ad creatives. Start with a control and multiple variants differing in one element. After identifying the best message, test it across various design formats. This iterative process builds a portfolio of effective creatives for your always-on campaigns, where you can, ideally, leave them untouched as you continue the testing process.
⏯️ For a clear view of product-market fit, track hard activations. These are meaningful actions — such as listening to multiple stories — that reveal user commitment. Don’t make the mistake of thinking a trial-start makes a user engaged. Use these insights to refine the user journey. Make it as easy as possible for users to reach the desired level of engagement.
🍂 Master the seasonal ad cycle: November is a tough month for ad spend, so pivot to awareness campaigns to navigate the rising costs. Come December, particularly after the 15th, you’ll find a rebound in favor of digital products as e-commerce spending drops. This period, often referred to as “Q5,” is also an excellent time to leverage gifting strategies and New Year messaging.
About Hannah Parvaz👨💻 Founder of Aperture, a full-service growth partner making good companies better by helping them to change the world in a positive way.
💪 Hannah has helped hundreds of apps grow, and was previously recognized as a 5-star mentor at GrowthMentor, taking home both App Marketer of the Year and Consultant of the Year awards. She previously worked with learning app Uptime, narrated journalism app Curio, drink app DUSK, and music app DICE.
💡 “Every app is different: Everyone needs different levels of success, but also everyone has a slightly different strategy.”
👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter
Links & Resources‣ Check out Aperture
‣ Hannah’s website
‣ Interview with Hannah on Business of Apps
‣ “Tips for Creating the Right Mindset for Business Growth” interview with Hannah Paravaz
‣ “How to talk to your customers in order to make winning ads with Hannah Parvaz”
Episode Highlights[2:01] Personal growth marketing: Former IBM CEO Ginni Rometty said, “Growth and comfort do not coexist.” Hannah feels this is true of her professional trajectory — an encouraging reminder for everyone in the app space.
[5:02] Scaling performance marketing: The first question you need to ask is, How are you measuring what you’re scaling?
[8:25] The measure of success: Hannah recommends A/B testing and analytics to build out funnels.
[11:05] Post-ATT ad performance: Experimenting with creatives relies on specific goals and tests based on one control and multiple variants. Lots of experimentation and analysis are the keys.
[16:02] Conversations with customers: Android’s Google Play store isn’t quite as stringent as Apple’s App Store, but customers need to know how many trials and installs they’re aiming for in order to maximize the growth they need.
[18:17] Subscription focus: Hannah takes a blended perspective to subscription apps, looking at funnel steps and where the biggest opportunities are, then moving into product.
[20:52] Action hierarchy: Developers need to figure out how many first meaningful actions and core actions must take place for users to truly activate.
[25:31] Finger in the air: Tracking ROI in the early stages ****is a guessing game, but once reality matches expectations, the activation average always becomes clear.
[31:26] The blended perspective: Optimizing performance starts with looking at each channel in isolation and closely monitoring performance.
[34:31] All the leaves are brown: Halloween brings a curse that lasts throughout November — a tough season for marketers and advertisers. Costs skyrocket, then drop on December 1 for “Q5,” which lasts until the beginning of January.
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On the podcast: Spinning off a new product from secondary product market fit, the journey of getting into YC, and the give and take of raising venture capital.
Top Takeaways
🥾 Ground expectations for launching a bootstrapped business — prepare for years of challenges and minimal initial revenue while adapting, learning, and growing over the long term.
💰 Bootstrapping versus raising capital depends on you: Venture capital accelerates growth but increases accountability and responsibility, and you need to decide how you want to grow and whether you want to take that on.
📚 The B2B success playbook is about customer retention and iterative improvement, while B2C is high-risk, high-reward. Early success is harder, so tailor your approach and expectations based on the landscape.
➗ Diversification is a double-edged sword, and being a multi-product app business is still a challenge, making focus crucial. Leverage existing user data and resources to identify truly synergistic opportunities, while staying true to your core mission and expertise.
📱 Diversified app growth means balancing cross-promotion and unique growth strategies — but not all distribution tactics translate seamlessly between apps.
About Martín Siniawski
👨💻 Co-founder and CEO at Podcast App, a fast-growing podcast player now backed by Y Combinator (W18).
💪 Having founded Streema with 10 million monthly users, Martín is now focused on scaling paid acquisition at Podcast App. The two apps have a combined 100 million downloads.
💡 “My first rule of multi-product companies is to try not to become a multi-product company.”
👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter
Links & Resources‣ Check out Podcast App
‣ Connect with Martín on LinkedIn
‣ Connect with Martín on X, formerly known as Twitter
‣ Listen to Martín on From Zero to 1M
Episode Highlights[2:37] Wandering in the desert: Bootstrapping Streema was the perfect way to learn and make mistakes.
[6:10] Masochistic motivations: Getting momentum going with Podcast App came from Martín and his co-founder observing a growing trend of people moving from radio to podcasts.
[10:03] Rise and fall: The first attempt to raise funding failed, thanks to a hard-nosed interview.
[15:36] Interview prep round #2: The second interview at YC went much better for Martín and his co-founder with the help of hindsight from their bootstrapping experience — and a lot of thought.
[17:32] How big do you want to grow?: Involving other people introduces higher stakes and more responsibility, but it can also seriously accelerate your business.
[20:52] B2B vs. B2C: Martín and Jacob differentiate between the two ways of doing business.
[26:09] YC interview tips: Martín dives deep into the second interview.
[29:07] Winning SEO optimization: Initially focused more on ads, the Podcast App doubled down on subscriptions and recently became a multi-product company with 130,000 subscribers.
[35:05] Distribution speedrun: Acquiring users has come naturally for Martín and his co-founder, and he considers distribution to be a major factor in a successfully executed vision.
[37:47] CAC LTV as product-market fit indicator: Martín is focused on making it work — the bottom line is whether or not they have a viable business.
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On the podcast: The B2B opportunity for B2C apps, the App Store alone being bigger than most Fortune 500 companies, and which current or future company will build the Berkshire Hathaway of consumer subscriptions.
Top Takeaways
📱 The App Store ecosystem is far from saturated. With a nearly doubled revenue from content being purchased since 2019 and hosting close to a billion subscriptions, the Apple App Store shows that there's still plenty of room for growth and opportunity. Despite debates about consumer fatigue, these numbers signify an ecosystem that is not only surviving but thriving.
👮 The regulatory spotlight could spark change in App Store fees. Amid increasing pressure from global and domestic regulators, the question looms: Will Apple and Google adjust their app store fees? If they do, it's not just a legal win, but also a potential cash flow boost for app developers. The decision could also be a tactical move for Apple to win back transactions currently lost to alternative payment systems.
🤝 The boundary between B2C and B2B is becoming increasingly fluid, offering a new avenue for growth. Brands like Peloton and Headspace, which thrived in the B2C space during the pandemic, are now venturing into B2B. This isn't a pivot but a strategic expansion, rooted in the belief that what consumers love, businesses will too. This trend underlines the potential of consumer-centric design in unlocking new business opportunities.
3️⃣ The Three C's: Content, Commerce, Community. Companies face three key challenges: acquisition, conversion, and retention. Content lures in users, commerce seals the deal, and a robust community keeps them coming back. It's not just a formula; it's the backbone of today's thriving subscription apps.
🤔There are untapped categories ripe for disruption.
While we often see a couple of dominant brands taking over established categories like dating or fitness, there are still numerous untapped markets in the consumer subscription space. Categories like Femtech and family management are just the tip of the iceberg, presenting just a few examples of the opportunities that await innovative apps.
About Eric Crowley💼Partner at GP Bullhound, focusing primarily on mergers and acquisitions, capital raises, and advisory transactions for technology companies.
📈 With more than a decade in investment banking and edtech growth, Eric focuses on transactions for U.S. and Europe-based growth-stage CSS, adtech, digital services, and fintech companies.
💡 “Who's the Apple of female health? Who’s the brand you go to that is by far the best, [where] you don't question it, you buy it? There isn't one. There should be one, and — for something that happens millions of times a year — why isn't there an Apple of female health?”
👋 LinkedIn and X, formerly known as Twitter
Links & Resources‣ Check out the CSS 2023 report
‣ GP Bullhound
‣ The evolution of consumer subscription apps
‣ Future subscription trends
‣ What venture investors look for when buying an app
Episode Highlights[2:05] Doubling iPhone numbers: Apple’s consistently high growth sees 90 billion in profits this year.
[6:23] Apps are the internet: More people want to use apps over internet sites thanks to superior UX and UI, signaling more investment into apps.
[10:27] App economics: Consumer trends clearly indicate that apps have a lot more room to grow.
[15:01] Regulator attention: The growth of in-app purchases is pressuring Apple and Google to open up payments.
[21:48] Berkshire App-away: From textiles to hundreds of over $300 billion in revenue in 2022, the trajectory of Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway portends what may soon happen in the app world.
[26:39] Making M&A waves: Eric talks through some recent significant CSS buyouts.
[29:12] B2B2C: B2B and B2C are blending, with movements between the two showing what Eric calls “growth extension,” rather than pivoting. But will they cannibalize each other?
[34:46] Three Cs: Content, commerce, and community are leading to more UGC.
[41:11] Becoming the Apple of X: So-called “category killers” show where the greatest potential for success in the app space lies.
[49:44] It could be you: Nearly 80% of companies featured in the annual CSS report raised or sold for a great exit.
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On the podcast: whether or not to increase your price, how to execute if you do, and why price increases often impact growth more than retention.
Top Takeaways
💳 Should you raise your app’s prices at all? It’s one of the most impactful ways of increasing lifetime value and revenue so the answer is yes: you should definitely consider raising prices. But it’s a balancing act. How do you not sacrifice long-term growth for short-term gain?
🌟 Avoid customer backlash by reaffirming the value proposition. Asking people to pay more for the thing they’re already getting is a tough sell, so reaffirm your value proposition by simultaneously launching new or teasing upcoming features ****to avoid customer backlash.
💰 Look at your retention metrics to determine whether or not to raise prices. Above-average retention metrics might indicate that you’re leaving money on the table and should consider a price increase — but if they’re not healthy, focus on product and retention first.
📈 Price increases tend to affect acquisition more than retention. Strong price increase execution means less churn from existing subscribers, with a little more pressure on new user acquisition.
🏆 Add tiers to give users options and strategically raise prices. Bundle higher tiers with extra features or introduce lower tiers for your core user base.
About Reid DeRamus
👨💻 Growth PM at Substack, a newsletter publication platform that provides writers and creators with infrastructure, payment, analytics and design to publish their work and send to email subscribers.
💪 Reid helped launch and grow Hulu, Crunchyroll, and HBO Max, taking his learnings and starting a company called Yem that helped individuals and small teams build their own media empires. Yem was then acquired by Substack, where Reid is now a Growth PM.
💡 “I need to figure out the value that my existing subscribers are getting [and] make sure I'm reinforcing that. But I also need to be mindful of how it'll slowly expand from my core audience today, too, if I want to continue driving subscribers.”
👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter
Links & Resources‣ Growth Croissant
‣ How To Increase Your Price
‣ How To Improve Retention
‣ Boosting Retention with Better Onboarding
‣ Improving Retention with Audience Surveys
‣ Connect with Reid at LinkedIn
‣ Reid on X, formerly known as Twitter
‣ Substack on X, formerly known as Twitter
Episode Highlights[1:13] Price increase: Raising prices is a great way to boost customer lifetime value and revenue but executing it well is a balancing act — with tradeoffs.
[5:40] Consumer sentiment: Asking customers to pay more for the same product is a tough sell. Take a cue from the standard set by Netflix and Spotify by teasing changes and with marginal — not double — increases.
[9:26] Subscription 101: Substack is a great analogy for consumer subscription apps. Health metrics can be “too good,” with writers significantly underpricing their work and not aggressively marketing.
[17:22] Surveys: Surveys don’t only help establish core price, but also what the most passionate fans might pay relative to core subscribers.
[19:18] Be sure to tier: Streaming platforms and a few pioneers in the subscription app space are leading the way in what is likely to become the default business model within the next five years. “Not all subscriptions are created equal,” Reid highlights.
[22:42] Hitting the ceiling: At what point are you bumping up against your total serviceable market?
[24:46] On reaching 12 million: Having a deep relationship with your audience can pay off much more than having the best video player, payment engine, website or app. It’s about persistently asking how you can deliver more value.
[27:51] Back to surveys: Figuring out where core users are finding value comes from surveys via Google Forms, or face-to-face on Zoom calls.
[31:47] Balancing act: There’s no universal right answer to drive business growth. Early on, find initial traction with a relentless focus on product-market fit.
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On the podcast: “Black hat” app optimization, the benefits and drawbacks of hard paywalls, and why, despite Apple and Google’s best efforts, so many apps still use dark patterns and even blatantly break the rules.
Top Takeaways
🎩 Lots of (even the top) apps continue to deliberately break app store rules — even if you don’t break them too, you need to know what black hat strategies you’re up against. (3:46, 13:25)
🔍 Running “keyword install campaigns” mobilizes a large number of people to search for a particular keyword and download the app, tricking the app store algorithms by increasing app relevancy — and rankings — against that keyword. (7:21)
🔐 Don’t be afraid to lock down more content, use a hard paywall, or get more “aggressive” with paywall visibility. If people can use an app for free, they will. (18:59-37:09)
📊 Opinions don’t matter — data does. There are contrasting approaches to onboarding and monetization, so test what’s right for your app and look at the data. (40:01)
✅ Fully optimize your onboarding and your paywall through tinkering, then stabilize to drive revenue via the top of the funnel. (45:46)
About Steve P. Young👨💻 Founder and CEO of App Masters, an app marketing agency that helps grow apps faster, better, and cheaper.
💪 Steve has spent over a decade growth hacking millions of app downloads, and knows the black hat strategies many top apps use to game the system.
💡 “My opinion does not matter. Everything is based on data.”
👋 LinkedIn | X
Links & Resources‣ Check out App Masters
‣ App Masters on YouTube
‣ Connect with Steve at LinkedIn
‣ Steve on X
‣ App Masters on Facebook
‣ Steve on Instagram
Episode Highlights[1:40] Knife to a gunfight: App Store ethics aren’t cleancut. How can you play by the rules when so many apps are using dark patterns to get ahead?
[5:03] Do what you gotta do: Black hat strategies like review-buying are just too tempting not to use in the journey from zero to one.
[8:31] Relevant hacking: Keyword install or boost — similar to ASO — campaigns are still possible to get higher in keyword rankings — as long as you have the right keywords.
[13:25] Legal disclaimer: Even if you don’t like cheating, knowing what competitors are doing is crucial to planning your own strategies.
[14:43] Very edgy: Steve dives into his top “edgy things” for increasing visibility and revenue.
[18:59] No hard paywall: When a growth hacking tactic yields thousands of organic downloads, why put in the X? Data talks, until Apple comes around.
[26:16] AI wall: Given the costs of running AI models, you’re giving away value if you don’t have a hard paywall.
[29:48] Scammy territory: There’s a fine line between bannable black hat strategies and gaming the system.
[34:52] Lock it up: Steve suggests locking as much as you can behind a paywall: Beware giving away value for free, and always look at the data.
[40:01] Your opinion does not matter: Keywords tell us which apps to build.
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On the podcast: The right way to raise prices, the painful lessons from picking the wrong tools, and why you should respond to every single app review.
Top Takeaways
✍️ Start surveying as soon as you start developing, and don’t stop. Identify your MVP by understanding customers early on, and develop new features with key customer insights when you’re growing.
📈 Bundle extra value if you must raise prices to soften the blow of a tough sell and demonstrate attentiveness to customer needs.
🧰 Cheaper, easy-to-integrate tools might not scale on infrastructure and unit economics, which could lead to a painful re-engineering process down the line.
🏗️ Plan for scalability from the start by adhering to solid software engineering principles and ensuring your tooling integrations are easily switchable.
🤑 Provide premium support for a premium product price. Respond to every store review — each interaction leaves a lasting impression on customers and drives loyalty.
About Vince Mayfield
👨💻 Co-founder and CEO of TalkingParents, an app that helps divorced or separated parents manage communication and share responsibilities.
💪 Vince and his partner jumped from professional services to building a scalable app with $10 million in ARR.
💡 “People like to compartmentalize elements of their life and they don't want to have a million apps.”
👋 LinkedIn
Links & Resources
‣ Connect with Vince on LinkedIn
‣ Check out TalkingParents
‣ TalkingParents on Instagram
‣ TalkingParents on Facebook
‣ TalkingParents on Pinterest
‣ TalkingParents on X (formerly Twitter)
‣ Get TalkingParents from the App Store
‣ Get TalkingParents from Google Play
Episode Highlights
[1:35] Origin story: Making money while we sleep is the ultimate goal — Vince talks about how he moved from agency to product company to $10 million in ARR.
[4:44] From hired gun to product growth: Lack of app monetization and not understanding customers early on may make pivoting to a product focus challenging.
[7:59] Risk management for risk mitigators: How do you make money from the court system? Easy: Switch focus to the real customers.
[10:32] Freemium tinkering: Vince dives into the app’s early strategy for monetization and subscription — burning through close to $1 million in the process.
[12:59] Chartered surveying: When it seems like an app is charging too little, asking customers what features they want and need is the ticket to nailing down value.
[15:59] Downhill slalom vs. uphill climb: Raising already low prices can be delicate, but bundling additional value with a rollout often softens the blow. Look for opportunities to layer on deeper value.
[28:33] Nudges and needs: From surveying to app instrumentation, Vince and his partner had to understand the customer journey before making the right moves.
[32:08] The ultimate tool belt: Not paying attention to how apps can scale from the very beginning is an easy mistake for app developers to make — especially when using tools.
[38:28] Best-in-class assessment: Starting with best-in-class tools isn’t always doable, but adopting good software engineering techniques as you go is a satisfactory quick fix.
[41:28] Lightning round: Vince talks about why support matters and how that translates into running a business and customers’ responses.
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On the podcast: Setting sensible goals for paid marketing, how to measure and learn from the results, and why a single ad creative can completely change the trajectory of a company.
Top Takeaways
🥅 Set clear and realistic goals before investing in paid UA — and make sure you can afford to experiment. It can be tough to get to ROAS positive, and even tougher to get that return quickly.
💰 Monthly ad budgets should ideally start at $10-20k for big, algorithmic platforms — increasing data volume for optimization — while lower budgets call for exploring non-algorithmic platforms and influencer marketing.
🤔 Successful ads are built on in-depth, comprehensive user understanding, including their triggers and responses to different messages — before investing in advertising.
🧪 Test and iterate radically and substantially in the the quest for the ideal creative: Promising concepts need further refinement and tweaking, especially given the unpredictable nature of what might work.
🤝 Focus on conversion rates, not just high user engagement
for ad campaigns — low conversion can negatively affect overall performance, and ad platforms like Facebook and Google aim for a balance between engagement and revenue.
About Thomas Petit👨💻 Independent subscription app growth consultant.
💪 Thomas has worked with hundreds of clients and helped manage tens of millions of dollars in ad spend.
💡 “Know your expectations and know what you're after… a lot of people don't ask this question in a deep enough way.”
👋 LinkedIn | Twitter
Links & Resources‣ David’s talk at Mau Las Vegas
‣ Revisiting the Fundamentals of App Marketing Post IDFA — Thomas Petit
‣ Check out MADV - Mobile. Ad.ventures on Substack
‣ Connect with Thomas on LinkedIn
‣ Connect with Thomas on Twitter
‣ Get involved in the Sub Club community
Episode Highlights[2:50] Minimum viability: What does it take to start making paid UA work? The answer depends on what you want to achieve with it.
[9:44] The early bird catches the worm: If you know what you want from the get-go, Thomas explains why starting paid UA early might not be a bad strategy. But only gamble what you can afford to lose.
[14:00] A word on Facebook: If running on a tight budget, Thomas “strongly recommends against” buying ads on Facebook because of targeting and demographic challenges.
[18:44] Cash moves everything around: The guardrails around scaling on algorithmic platforms necessitate a five-digit monthly budget minimum. Below $10-20k a month you’re operating in a very tough spot.
[24:57] Good Ol’ Google: Operating on low budgets, choosing keywords for Google searches may still work. Using a simple landing page builder is an avenue to explore — but only very early on when you need to assess SEO and imagery. The three checks are: goals, cash, and ARPI.
[31:31] Scaling paid UI: Thomas goes deep into how to scale paid UI, and how MMPs and SDKs play into that.
[39:56] The measure of success: It’s critical to assess evolving trends based on changing spend. But attribution isn’t (and never was) an exact science. Look at whatever tools you have at your disposal for an estimate.
[45:39] His toolkit: Thomas talks about the tools he uses for modeling incrementality across product and subscription lifecycle events.
[53:44] Let’s get creative: With growing automation, getting ads right is crucial. Messaging, USP, and understanding your audience all factor into effective ads. Don’t rely on intuition.
[1:05:01] USP: There’s no secret formula for a single, winning USP, but you need to test it to understand what users react to.
[1:09:41] Spanning the gap: Some successful ads are indirect and don’t transition. The relation between downloads and transitioning is a tough nut to crack, but teasing and explicitly explaining it’s an app are good ways to try at least a slight transition.
[1:13:26] Clickbait install rate: Beware of the delicate interplay between clicks, reduced install rate, ad spend, and ROI.
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