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  • Adding management consultancy as a service offering of your recruitment agency can potentially increase your revenue. But the question is, is it easier said than done?

    In this episode, you will hear insights from Colin Kleine, co-founder of Scalerr. They’re a growth advisory firm that helps Tech companies reach their revenue goals through Strategy, Execution, and People.

    Colin discusses why he made the pivot from Recruiter into Management Consultant, and why recruitment was so fundamental in helping him successfully do it. He shared the challenges, key learnings, and how this transition benefits their business.

    I have known Colin since 2014, he’s a former client and I’ve tracked his remarkable rise, especially since he launched Scalerr.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:07] Colin shared how he came across Mark and the learnings he took that transformed his billings.

    [05:34] The highs and lows that led Colin to start Scalerr.

    [11:45] Thriving during the longest COVID lockdown.

    [16:21] From recruitment to management consulting: Colin explains how their advisory services help clients expand internationally to increase their valuation.

    [28:49] Mark emphasizes how understanding the client's objectives rather than just filling roles can add more value.

    [38:14] How having a co-founder who is aligned with Collin’s passion became a game-changer.

    [48:30] Colin shares the biggest challenges that he had to face when building Scalerr.

    [56:13] Key success factors and milestones that led Colin and Scalerr to where they are now.

    [1:00:46] Colin thanks Mark for being a mentor and inspiration throughout his career.



    Recruitment Skills and Experience Leading to Management Consulting

    How Colin pivoted from being just a recruiter to a management consultant is a story that I find fascinating. Aside from talent acquisition, Scalerr helps startup companies scale up and expand globally and increase their valuation. What propelled this shift? Colin shared three takeaways:

    Understanding their client’s objectives and challenges. Colin and his team are focused on being consultative and understanding their client's journey, stresses, and pain points.

    Learning from experience: having helped more than 150 companies, Colin and his team learned what makes some businesses successful and some businesses fail. They have come up with a playbook that

    Leveraging his recruitment experience, Colin took lessons from the CEOs, VPs, and other key positions he placed. He said, “You learn information that somebody else is prepared to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for. So you start learning what is it that made some companies wildly successful? What is it that successful CEOs did to grow and scale a company and also understand how all of this ties in ultimately into valuation?”

    The management consulting arm of their business skyrocketed, leading Colin and his team to start a venture arm.

    Challenges and Solutions While Building Scalerr

    Just like all business owners, Colin faced a multitude of challenges when building Scalerr. I wanted to hear what his top challenges are and how his team was able to overcome them. He shared one particular challenge that resonates with many recruitment business owners:

    “Not enough hours in the day, as many entrepreneurs will do, and make this mistake of trying to do too much of it yourself. And I know there's going to be a lot of people listening to this podcast that know exactly what I'm talking about, not realizing when it's now time to start delegating things out and bringing somebody on board to do that, not knowing when to give up control and relinquish.”

    Colin emphasized the importance of systemizing and delegating tasks. Not doing so and becoming overwhelmed with tasks you can delegate will be a constraint to scaling your business.

    Creating a Flywheel: Pivotal Factors That Propelled Scalerr to Their Current Achievements

    Another topic that stood out to me is how Colin and his team were able to create a flywheel - their consultancy work feeds their recruitment segment and vice versa. Instead of solely relying on placements as a revenue stream, they were able to establish their consultancy to the point that it could be a standalone revenue source. Colin described it this way: “I think there's a lot of mutual value added and then you start speaking to them and introducing yourself and building a relationship, and more and more people know you, and guess what? They end up giving you recruitment work.”

    Colin also elaborated on the three pivotal factors that he believes contributed greatly to their current achievements:

    Diversification of where they source their leads.

    Foundational understanding of their clients on a business level.

    Creating their own flywheel and not solely relying on placements as a revenue source.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Colin Kleine Bio and Contact Info

    Colin specializes in forging innovative revenue streams through strategic channel partnerships, crafting accelerated GTM and Commercialization strategies, and handpicking high-impact teams with a battle-tested background in startup scaling. His expertise spans customized advisory and recruitment services, enabling swift market validation, deft navigation of the intricate APAC landscape, and securing vital venture capital and government grants. With an impressive portfolio of over 150 victorious startups, Colin's results-driven approach guarantees maximum revenue, valuation growth, and a triumphant expansion into the APAC market. As a dedicated investor and seasoned business advisor, Colin puts his money where his mouth is, committed to your success while leveraging his insider knowledge to drive your business forward.

    Colin on LinkedIn

    Scalerr website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Allan Cutter on LinkedIn

    Leanne Sarah Jones Hunt on LinkedIn

    Traction by Gino Wickman

    The E Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber

    Who Not How by Dan Sullivan

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach




    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

  • Working 100+ hours a week nearly burned Gregg out. If running your recruitment business is stressing you out, Gregg’s story may be able to help you.

    I am pleased to be joined by Gregg Salkovitch. Gregg is intentionally growing his recruitment firm to become a lifestyle business. Along the way, he learned a lot of things to achieve his goal while gaining more lifestyle freedom. You will hear insightful strategies on how Gregg is building his team and delegating tasks. We also discussed why it is critical to hire a COO to help you in scaling your business.

    After a career as a top sales performer for 3 consecutive companies, Gregg co-founded a sales recruitment agency to combine the 2 things he loves most in business: sales and helping people. In 6 years, Gregg grew his company organically with no outside funding to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for fastest growing companies 3 consecutive times. He then started a separate recruiting company, Right Choice Resources, which specifically focuses on the placement of salespeople, executives, marketing, account management, and customer success.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:38] Gregg’s journey of how he got into recruiting.

    [04:30] When being laid off is a blessing in disguise.

    [10:18] Transitioning from individual contributor to a recruitment business owner: Gregg shares the challenges that they overcame.

    [14:51] Scaling team to 60 people in six years.

    [17:07] Gregg reveals his key success factors.

    [20:06] Character over resume: hiring strategies to get the right people.

    [35:11] Discussion on growth strategies for a lifestyle business.

    [37:02] When to hire a COO role to scale your business.

    [42:49] Make less money in the short term to get long-term benefits.

    [48:04] Transferrable skills from sales to recruiting.

    [52:57] What is next for Gregg and his business?

    Getting Laid Off Pushed Gregg Into a Recruiting Career

    Gregg shared an amazing story of resilience on how he got into the recruiting industry. Getting laid off unexpectedly pushed Gregg into a recruiting career. He loved his sales job and was blindsided when he was laid off after 4 years as a top performer. This made interviewing difficult as he had to overcome the perception that he must have underperformed despite being an actual top performer. He also had non-compete from his old company which prevented him from staying in the same industry.

    Facing these challenges pushed Greg to explore a new path by using his sales skills to transition into recruiting. This pivot into recruiting ended up being life-changing for Greg's career. You will hear how he used skills he learned from sales to be an effective recruiter. He even leverages his experience of being laid off to engage with candidates. “I think when I speak to candidates and we're seeing more layoffs right now, I have major empathy for them because it's not just like, I've sold like you. I've stood at trade shows for 5 hours like you. I've been laid off like you. And that really helps me, in my opinion, become a better recruiter because I've actually lived it.”

    Though difficult, getting laid off opened new opportunities that Greg capitalized on. In his words, “It was a blessing in disguise. It was probably the best thing that ever happened.”

    Character Over Credentials: Building an All-Star Team to Scale

    Another topic that will also resonate with a lot of business owners is strategies for hiring recruiters and team members to scale. Gregg focuses on hiring people based on character and shared values over resume credentials. He wants people he genuinely enjoys working with. He told the story of how hiring a trusted person without recruiting experience worked well for their business.

    This strategy works well for Gregg and his team. He has grown his first recruiting company (with no outside funding) to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for Fastest-Growing Companies 3 times! These are some of my takeaways from their strategy:

    Vetting the work ethic, values, and coachability is crucial

    Greg wants employees he has a natural rapport

    A team aligned in values helps ensure an ethical, collaborative culture

    Why Hiring a COO is Critical

    If you are a solo recruitment entrepreneur and planning to scale, hiring a COO is critical. This has been true for both Gregg and me, where hiring an effective COO became a game changer.

    A lot of us may be able to relate to what Gregg said:

    “I've been doing it by myself for twelve years and I've never really had help. And it's been exhausting. I mean, it's been an amazing ride, but it's been exhausting. And I like to have my recruiters focus on recruiting. I mean, that's what keeps the lights on and not worrying about doing side projects and onboarding employees and dealing with maybe a tough client, which I know is going to wear them down a little bit. So that's why I decided to hire somebody in operations, is that I have my recruiters recruiting. I'm doing everything else, and to do everything else, it's a lot. I just need a helping hand.”

    Gregg is intentionally growing his firm slowly to have a lifestyle business. Hiring a COO helps him to focus on sales while delegating operations. Offloading operational tasks and delegating things that he does not enjoy doing creates more freedom and a better lifestyle. This resonates well with me. Some business owners may be apprehensive to take this approach because paying someone else can translate to lesser profit. But keep in mind that making less in the short term creates more freedom to earn much more in the long term.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Gregg Salkovitch Bio and Contact Info

    After being a top sales performer for 3 consecutive companies, Gregg decided to co-found a company combining the 2 things he loved most in business, sales and helping people. Over 6 year period, Gregg grew this bootstrapped company with no outside funding to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for fastest growing companies 3 consecutive times. He then started a separate recruiting company, Right Choice Resources, which specifically focuses on the placement of salespeople, executives, marketing, account management, and customer success.

    Gregg on LinkedIn

    Right Choice Resources website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Allan Fisher on LinkedIn

    Greg Savage on LinkedIn

    Paul Warner on LinkedIn

    Rocket Fuel by Gino Wickman and Mark C. Winters

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher

    TRR#189 Recruiting the Savage Way: Navigating AI, Metrics, and Mindset for Recruitment Success, with Greg Savage

    TRR#143 How a Competitive Bike Racer Turned Recruiter Built a 7-Figure Staffing Firm in 3 Years, with Paul Warner



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.



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  • Transitioning from a comfortable corporate recruitment career to building an agency is not an obvious choice for many. The risks it entails may even stop some recruiters from considering this transition. Although it may be a significant leap, with the right skills, mindset, and support, it can lead to a rewarding and profitable career change.

    My special guest, Pat Corrigan, shares his story of how he successfully transitioned and thrived as a recruitment agency owner from being a corporate recruiter for more than a decade. Pat shares the three key factors to his success, as well as the strategies he continues to implement in building his team and driving revenue.

    Pat is the founder of Palladium Point, a leading executive search firm based in St. Louis, serving the commercial insurance industry nationally.

    His recruitment career spans fifteen years, and for the past six years has been focused on building high-performing sales teams for leading commercial insurance brokers.

    After spending years leading the sales recruitment function for a global insurance broker, Pat pursued his entrepreneurial dreams and started his own firm. Since launching in 2022 they’ve taken off like a rocket.

    I’m also honored to have Pat as a member of our Inner Circle coaching program.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:03] Pat's Journey into Recruiting - From Corporate Recruitment to Agency Ownership.

    [12:40] The Bold Leap - Leaving the Comfort of Corporate Life to Establish His Firm - Discover the 3 Key Success Factors.

    [19:06] Accelerating Revenue Growth and Building a High-Performing Team.

    [24:17] How Bringing in Operations Personnel and Offshore Sourcers Became a Long-Term Solution for Pat's Business.

    [32:32] Pat Shares His Proven Client Development Approach.

    [39:07] Building Sustainable Growth - Implementing Systems and Processes.

    [49:30] Crafting an Inspiring Vision and Culture.

    Successful Transition From Corporate Recruitment to Becoming an Agency Owner

    For 15 years, Pat established himself as a recruitment leader for several corporate staffing firms. He had a colorful career but what resonated with me is his story of how being let go from a previous job was a pivotal moment that led him to where he is today. Pat emphasizes the importance of resilience and learning from every experience.

    Pat also revealed what prompted him to leave his corporate gig to set up his firm. His strong work ethic and niche expertise are the foundations that enabled his transition. He shared three critical focus areas that have been key to his success:

    Meticulous Planning - he took time to consult with others and assess potential risks before making his decision.

    Niche Focus - he leverage on his niche expertise that he had developed for half a decade.

    Cash Reserves - he understood that starting a business may not always easily take off successfully, so Pat ensured that he had enough cash reserves to hold him over for a while.

    This indeed is an inspiring story for corporate or in-house recruiters aspiring to become recruitment business owners someday.

    Strategies for Building a Team and Driving Revenue in a Short Span of Time

    We then moved on to discuss strategies for building his team and driving revenue in a short span of time. Pat discussed how long he had to work on his own before he started hiring the next person. After around three or four months he started building his team and his first hire was an ops person. How did this decision to hire an operations person impact his business long term?

    His logic behind it is, as Pat puts it, “If I want to attract, recruiters, or eventually salespeople into my organization, I want to give them the platform to get out there and kick tail. And I didn't want somebody to come in as the first recruiter and say, well, here's your ATS license and your LinkedIn recruiter and Zoom info …I like kind of linear stuff, and I wanted to not rush it. And as we're bringing on talent, I wanted, like, a real solid business platform that people could access”

    This is remarkable insight. Pat hired an operations person to establish a solid foundation for future growth. This strategic move allowed him to attract recruiters and create a platform that would support their success. The hiring process was focused on setting up systems and structures rather than rushing into recruitment because Pat valued organization and long-term growth potential.

    Pat then shared strategies in revenue which is focused on his approach to Business Development. Pat shared his perspective on sales which is focused on interaction and relationship building. He also described a Rainmaker Model way of working that enables him to get consistent revenue in running his business.

    Creating Systems and Processes for Growth

    Pat also emphasized the importance of putting up systems and processes for a smooth start for new hires. We discussed the platforms and tools they are using - such as Slack, to organize his team. He also shared his approach to having an offshore researcher and sources to help in lead generation.

    Pat advocates growth not only for his organization but for his team members as well. He highlighted the value of intentionally designing your business’ vision and culture to attract top talents aligned with your core values. He believes that having the right tools and working environment in place will help your team grow exponentially.

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Pat Corrigan Bio and Contact Info

    As the Founder and President of Palladium Point, Pat brings a rich background in recruitment spanning nearly 15 years to the table. His journey began with recruiting top-tier talent for Lockton Companies, the world's largest independent insurance brokerage, where he played a pivotal role in driving industry-leading growth.

    Fueled by a desire to revitalize the recruitment and talent acquisition landscape within the insurance sector, Pat embarked on the path to establish his own firm. Recognizing the need for a more dynamic and contemporary approach, he envisioned a search firm that would infuse fresh ideas and perspectives into the industry while maintaining a collaborative, human, and intentional ethos.

    Today, Pat and his team at Palladium Point are trusted partners for insurance organizations navigating the intensely competitive landscape, while also serving as advisors to top talent seeking professional fulfillment.

    Prior to his venture into the insurance realm, Pat excelled in technology consulting, where he consistently delivered results on challenging recruitment initiatives for global and mid-market organizations. He proudly holds a B.A. in Psychology and Business from the University of Missouri.

    Pat on LinkedIn

    Palladium Point website link

    Palladium Point on LinkedIn

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Ravi Tangri on LinkedIn

    Gail Audibert on LinkedIn

    Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn

    Joe Rice on LinkedIn

    Rich Rosen on LinkedIn

    ClickUp (Project Management Tool)

    Slack

    Rad Reads, by Khe Hy

    Atomic Habits, by James Clear

    The E-Myth, by Michael Gerber

    10x is Easier Than 2x Dan Sullivan

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#155 How to Grow a Recruitment Agency from Start-Up to $3M Profit in Two Years, with Emily Rushton

    TRR#171 4 Essential Skills that All Recruitment Business Owners Need to Be Successful, with Chris Dinaso



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

  • Is implementing KPIs and measuring metrics the same as micromanagement?

    Measuring activities is fundamental to evaluating how effective your strategies are in running your recruitment business. However, there are some recruiters and business owners who are apprehensive about implementing metrics measurements and KPIs. Is that the same for your recruitment business?

    What are the metrics and KPIs that we should measure? How do we implement a KPI and data-driven environment without giving the vibe that team members are being micromanaged? How do you communicate the intent and purpose of your KPIs to your team members?

    In this episode, Greg Savage explained why it is not about micromanaging and discusses metrics that empower talents. On top of this, you will also hear insightful takes on critical trends in AI and technology, and why your mindset is the key in your recruitment career success.

    I am delighted to welcome the legendary Greg Savage to give us a reality check and revisit the pillars leading to recruitment success. Greg has four decades of experience owning, managing, and growing staffing businesses across the world. He’s the founder of four highly successful businesses; Recruitment Solutions (took to IPO). Firebrand Talent Search (trade sale), Eloquent Staffing (trade sale), and People2People.

    Greg still takes an active interest in founding and growing recruitment businesses, investing in recruitment start-ups in Australia and the UK. He’s a LinkedIn Top Voices and has been inducted into the Recruiter International Hall of Fame.

    He’s founder of The Savage Recruitment Academy, and author of the best-selling book, The Savage Truth, and has recently published a new book called Recruit The Savage Way.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:06] Greg and I delved into the essence of authentic leadership.

    [05:44] Exploring the four key factors for achieving success in the recruitment field.

    [11:01] Strategies for overcoming complacency and avoiding contentment with the status quo.

    [15:00] Greg shared his insights on the importance of continuous learning and how he benefits from nano degrees.

    [18:40] Greg’s valuable insights into the impact of AI on the recruitment industry.

    [29:41] Technological innovations that enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of recruitment.

    [32:08] Conversation about activities and key performance indicators (KPIs) and their role in achieving success in recruitment.

    [39:08] Exploring the best practices for effectively managing KPIs in recruitment.

    [47:52] Greg shared his perspectives on career development opportunities for recruiters.

    [57:00] Analysis of the economic landscape in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic.

    The Mindset, Attitude, and Resilience to Become a Successful Recruiter

    I have always valued Greg as a mentor all these years. With over four decades of phenomenal success in the recruitment industry, he is an established authority when it comes to sharing wisdom with aspiring recruiters and business owners. He has recently published a book, Recruit the Savage Way, which offers “practical advice, skills, and attitudes and will give rookies an excellent grounding to thrive in their new career and help veterans brush up and add new competencies.”

    We have talked about the first section which is on mindset and attitude. Greg said that one of the big reasons for the high turnover in the staffing and recruitment industry is because of the wrong attitude and mindset towards the industry. He mentioned the fallacy of believing that “recruitment is not rocket science,” because it is a complex, sophisticated job.

    Greg believes that the mindset and attitude factors are something that can be corrected early on. Like skills and competencies, mindset and attitude can also be honed and trained. He emphasized four factors:

    Believe in your value as a recruiter

    Believe in the value that you can deliver to your stakeholders

    Having that true resilience - which he refers to as the bounce-back ability

    Overcoming the threat of complacency

    Greg also shared insightful principles on what true resilience looks like for recruiters. He elaborated on the value of emotions and moving on with positivity. You will also appreciate how he defines complacency in the recruitment field.

    Activities and KPIs are Critical For Recruitment Success

    There is a section in Greg’s new book about the reality check on the importance of activities and KPIs to recruitment success. Greg elaborated on the two fundamental things to be successful in the business:

    “The first thing is if you don't do enough stuff in this business, you will fail.”

    “You cannot get better at something unless you measure it.”

    Greg and I talked about the myth that measuring your metrics and KPIs is synonymous with micromanagement. As Greg said, “There is no sports person or academic or anyone who doesn't measure their outputs and then try to work on improving them. So I mean, the problem with... most KPIs is that they are foisted on people with no consideration to where those people are up to, not explained why they're important.”

    Greg shared his advice to recruitment business owners on how to implement KPIs in a healthy working environment.

    Insightful Take on Career Development for Recruiters

    Greg also discussed a topic that deeply resonated with me: career development for recruiters and recruitment business owners. You will hear his thoughts on the threat of complacency. As he simply puts it, 10 years of experience is just 1 year of recruitment experience repeated 10 times if you are complacent. How do we overcome the trap of complacency and move forward with development?

    Continuous Learning. Greg is an advocate of continuous learning. He shared how he benefits from taking “nano degrees” to stay up to date with recent trades, such as AI.

    Owning Your Development. This is how Greg wittily describes it, “There is no one, nobody having sleepless nights about your career. Okay, maybe your mom, but nobody else is having sleepless nights about your career. Even a company that is going to help develop you, you've got to be dreaming if you think they're worried about where you're going to be in 15 years. And nor should they. You've got to worry about your career and you've got to take ownership of your career.”

    Do Not Only Think of Your Career as a Hierarchical One. Greg shared successful recruiters who have had satisfying careers by focusing on and growing the career of becoming a recruiter by itself. My takeaway from this is that appreciating the sense of progress honing your craft and seeing your results increase is extremely satisfying.

    Greg Savage Bio and Contact Info

    With a career spanning four decades, Greg is a founder of 4 highly successful businesses, a trusted advisor and respected voice across the global recruitment and professional services industries, and a regular keynote speaker at conferences around the world.

    Throughout his fascinating career, Greg has learned countless lessons in leadership, business, and life. One of his greatest achievements is his success as a communicator. An early adopter of social media for recruiters, Greg’s industry blog, The Savage Truth, is a must-read in the recruitment industry. In November 2018, he was named one of LinkedIn’s ‘Top Voices’.

    Greg’s website link

    Greg on LinkedIn

    Greg on Facebook

    Greg on Twitter @greg_savage

    Greg on Instagram: @gregsavagetruth

    Greg on Youtube

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Driving performance with recruitment metrics and KPIs

    Greg’s Masterclass: Recruit - The Savage Way: A recruitment masterclass series from Greg Savage

    Greg’s new book: Recruit the Savage Way

    Recruitment Coach Live Summit in Florida - recruitmentcoach.com/florida

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#1 The Future of Recruitment: Strategies To Stay Relevant and Effective, with Greg Savage

    TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

  • Recruitment entrepreneurship can be immensely rewarding, but also brings the risk of burnout and overwhelm. New entrepreneurs can be vulnerable to workaholism, which can lead to negative consequences on physical and mental health, as well as personal relationships. We need to recognize the signs of workaholism and take steps to maintain a healthy work-life balance

    My special guest, Tina Hazlett, founder of Spectrum Recruiting Solutions, shares her tips for success while maintaining a work-life balance. She gave at least four intentional steps that she took to overcome burnout, and I am sure you will find value in exploring the same steps.

    Tina also shared the journey of how she transitioned from being a recruiter to a business owner, and how she navigated unpredictable market conditions. She also walked me through her advocacy of addressing the gender gap in her industry, and the steps they took to be successful in taking small steps forwards.

    Tina has 22 years of experience in recruitment and started her own firm, Spectrum Recruiting Solutions, in 2018. They’ve since grown to a team of 14, based in the Salt Lake City area, Spectrum supports engineering and manufacturing companies in Utah through a combination of Direct-hire recruitment, RPO, and Consulting.



    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:30] Tina Shares the Beginnings of Her Career in Recruitment.

    [03:57] Tina's One-Year Sabbatical Journey Before Launching Her Recruitment Firm.

    [10:33] Envisioning a Business Founded on Inclusivity and Remote Work Opportunities.

    [15:59] Addressing the Challenge of Hiring and Training Individuals Without Recruiting Experience

    [17:54] Tina's Four Steps to Overcoming Burnout as a New Entrepreneur.

    [24:34] The Evolution of Team Growth Throughout Tina's Entrepreneurial Journey.

    [28:30] Cultivating Camaraderie in a Remote Work Environment.

    [29:42] Discussing Gender Balance and Diversity in Utah's Engineering Industry.

    [37:00] Navigating Challenges in an Unconventional Market.

    [40:56] Insights into Tina's Business Development Strategies.

    [48:20] Establishing Career Paths and Succession Plans for the Team.

    [49:20] Tina's Approach to Transforming Solid Planning into Effective Execution.

    [51:48] Recognizing the Right Time to Expand and Grow Your Team.

    Overcoming Burnout as a New Entrepreneur

    New entrepreneurs can be vulnerable to workaholism for various reasons: passion and drive, new responsibilities, and adjusting to the learning curve of managing a new business. This was exactly how Tina felt when she founded Spectrum.

    “If I'm being very honest about a couple years into starting spectrum, I hit a wall and I hit it hard and was so super burned out. And there was about at least a three-week period that I struggled to get out of bed. I was so tired.”

    If you are feeling the same way, do not just ignore it. Workaholism leading to burnout can have many negative consequences. Tina was well aware of this fact, so she took action in order to build herself back up. We discussed the four steps she took to overcome overwhelm:

    Realigning her priorities and making the most of her support system.

    She took concrete steps like scheduling dedicated family time on her calendar

    Creating a space for herself to take care of her mental health by doing yoga.

    Walking away from adversarial clients.

    Gender Balance and Diversity Within the Engineering & Manufacturing Field in Utah

    Tina talked me through her advocacy when she was planning to launch her recruitment firm. She said, “We really struggle in terms of our reputation and women's rights. That's one thing that I really wanted to promote. Where we focus on engineering and manufacturing in Utah, there's not a ton of representation for females out here, especially when it comes to equality, politically and professionally. Our goal was to really make sure women have a seat at the table.”

    Her team took intentional steps to reach their objectives. They created channel partnerships and pipelines of candidates. They go beyond social media platforms through face-to-face networking. She elaborated on how they would align with a group with similar mission and values for mutual support. This resulted in having females in 41% of their placement, which is an astonishing feat in their industry.

    Business Development Strategies

    We also discussed Tina’s most influential business development strategy. How are they able to develop their client base? She explains, “Through a lot of our networking events is our number one way to do it where we can get in front of people. For example, we just did a hosted roundtable with the Utah Outdoor Association which does a lot of product development for outdoors like kayaks, canoes, tables, and that type of thing. So if we can get in and present, be the experts, be that resource, then we have people coming to us with questions that evolve into those strategic conversations. And what's been the most successful for us is getting that FaceTime. We're not cold callers.”

    This strategy of hosting and speaking at events builds the credibility of Tina and her team. This gives them the opportunity to have a consultative approach instead of just selling.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Tina Hazlett Bio and Contact Info

    Tina started Spectrum Recruiting Solutions in 2018 after serving 17 years in the Talent Acquisition industry. A professional sabbatical and personal desire to travel helped to provide the mental space she needed to create her vision of the ideal Talent Acquisition Firm. She and her entire family spent a full year traveling across the United States in a Winnebago, on purpose. She fulfilled her soul as well as her contractual non-compete agreement.

    With sheer determination and a dream, she built a successful recruiting, consulting & outplacement company that is thriving today. Amongst historic levels of economic uncertainty and geopolitical turmoil, she began a recruiting revolution!

    When she’s not putting her blood, sweat, and tears into Spectrum, she is active in the community fighting for gender pay equality and managing her family's annual "Backpack Project" which provides basic necessities to underprivileged kids within our community. Somehow Tina still finds time to continue exploring her soul and her world, traveling, hiking, biking, teaching yoga, and living life to the absolute fullest with her AMAZING family.

    Tina on LinkedIn

    Spectrum Recruiting Solutions website link

    Spectrum on Facebook

    Spectrum on Instagram

    Spectrum on YouTube

    Spectrum on Twitter

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Foram Brown on LinkedIn

    Emily Rushton on LinkedIn

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#155 How to Grow a Recruitment Agency from Start-Up to $3M Profit in Two Years, with Emily Rushton



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

  • Starting a cybersecurity recruitment business during a tech market downturn can be exceptionally challenging for several reasons: reduced demand, intense competition, financial constraints, and talent availability.

    Despite these challenges, it's not impossible to succeed in launching a cybersecurity recruitment business during a downturn, as proven by my special guest, Stuart Mitchell.

    Stu founded Hampton North in 2022 with the goal of building the most trusted cybersecurity search firm in the united states. Despite the downturn in the tech market, they’re on pace to bill $1.5-2M in their first year.

    In this episode, Stu shared his insights into key topics that help him succeed: finding the right people to surround you, attracting and retaining the best people, and how to build a personal brand, and becoming a recognized industry leader.

    With over a decade of experience, Stu has been a successful billing manager, having personally billed over a million dollars while building a multi-million dollar team who achieved an EBITA of $1m.

    He’s placed some of the most well-known cyber security executives into Financial Services Companies, Retail Brands, and Tech Giants alike. He has built cyber security programs from 0-20+ on multiple occasions, including one of these scale-ups in less than 8 weeks.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:30] How Stu got into recruiting leading to him starting his recruitment firm.

    [11:30] From good to great - finding the right people to surround you.

    [16:18] How Stu began to build his brand by sharing a case study on LinkedIn.

    [20:48] Stu shared how he launched Hampton North and what makes them thrive despite the downturn in the tech industry.

    [29:52] Attracting, hiring, and retaining the best people as a startup.

    [39:21] Breakdown of how Stu became a recognized industry leader.

    [50:00] The importance of consistency in creating value-adding content - hear Stuart’s content strategies.

    [1:03:30] Stu shares what is next for Hampton North.

    Overcoming a Tech Market Downturn - Launching Hampton North and Billing 7 Digits on Their First Year

    A remarkable achievement that I wanted to discuss with Stu is how he launched his cybersecurity recruitment business, Hampton North in 2022. What makes it amazing is that despite the downturn in the tech market, they are on pace to bill $2M in their first year!

    I am excited to share in this episode Stu’s insights on the things that contributed to this success. We zoomed in on three key factors:

    The importance of hard work.

    Developing key account relationships.

    The quality of people that you hire.

    The third topic resonated well with me as I feel the impact of having the right team members to support my business. For many recruitment business owners, especially those who are just starting, hiring someone can be like a roll of the dice. Stu shared how he was able to get the top talents and retain them. It can probably be summarized with a question that serves as his guiding principle when hiring: “Who are the best people that I know, and why aren't they already working here?”

    Becoming a Recognized Industry Leader and Consistent in Sharing Relevant Content

    Stu also did a phenomenal job in establishing a reputation in the cybersecurity space as a recognized thought and industry leader. With more than 40,000 LinkedIn followers, he is consistent in posting industry-relevant content. I also enjoy the posts that he shares, so I wanted to get his thought process on how he is consistently coming up with ideas.

    We discussed the following subjects:

    The impact of sharing case studies.

    Creating a brand of familiarity less the intention of wanting to be liked.

    Avoiding “forced content” by sharing free-flowing ideas.

    Strategies in creating 2-3 posts a day consistently.

    Stu described his thought process this way, “I think I kind of see this as t kind of the writer's strike in Hollywood, right? The more you force it and try and make things rigid and structured like it's really hard to force great ideas. Great ideas are free-flowing.”

    Surrounding Yourself with the Right People

    Before becoming a recruitment business owner, Stu has always been a consistently successful billing manager. He billed over a million dollars while building a multi-million dollar team that achieved an EBITA of $1m.

    He revealed what can turn a good recruiter into a great recruiter: “I think it goes back, there's a saying of yours, your collective sum of the five closest people around you.”

    Stu mentioned great recruiters where he learned to shift his perspectives in terms of what is possible. Surrounding yourself with the right people can shift your whole belief system to drive you to reach your potential.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Stuart Mitchell Bio and Contact Info

    Stuart is a seasoned professional with over a decade of global expertise in technical recruiting.

    Stuart's influence extends deep into the heart of America's cybersecurity landscape, where he has been instrumental in securing top-tier executives for prominent Financial Services Companies, Retail Brands, and Technology Giants. His achievements also include the remarkable feat of independently establishing cybersecurity programs from the ground up, often growing them from zero to over 20 employees in astonishingly short periods, with one such endeavor completed within just eight weeks.

    With a track record of building and expanding technical recruitment enterprises, Stuart embarked on the journey to establish Hampton North. His mission is to forge Hampton North into the foremost trusted name in cybersecurity recruitment throughout the United States.

    Stuart on LinkedIn

    Hampton North website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Steven Li on LinkedIn

    Lee Hills on LinkedIn

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR# 175 How to Build Trust and Relationships at Scale by Hosting Meet-up Events, with Steven Li



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

  • Recruiting is not only sales and data-driven. It encompasses a broader range of skills, qualities, and considerations which is mainly focused on building relationships and human connection. Effective recruiting involves understanding people's motivations, aspirations, and personalities.

    That is why it is important for recruiters and business owners to understand the value of Emotional Intelligence. Emotional intelligence empowers recruiters to navigate the intricacies of human interaction, fostering trust, rapport, and success within the recruitment industry.

    In this episode, my special guest, James Elliot, shares the 5 pillars of emotional intelligence which are critical components in becoming effective recruiters. James is very different from my usual guests in that he does not come from a recruiting background.

    James joined the British Army in 2006, deploying around the world including to Afghanistan.

    After his own issues with mental health, James became a strength and conditioning coach at a national league rugby team, where he learned the power of mentoring. He was then asked to help establish the first-ever British Army Parachute Jumping Instructors Platoon.

    At RAF Brize Norton, James also attended several courses in mental health, becoming an instructor, and also broke 2 Guinness world records in feats of endurance in rugby.

    In 2018, James became a Mental Resilience Coach for the British Army, where he helped develop and deliver mental resilience training, including to special forces. In 2020, James left the army to take his mental resilience training to a wider audience including high-performing individuals and teams, such as the Paralympic Rowing team.



    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [1:39] Why understanding human behavior is practical in the recruiting industry.

    [04:36] James’ journey as a mental resilience coach and what made him pursue mental health qualifications.

    [15:04] James shares the resilience principles that he was teaching in the British Army.

    [17:40] Our discussion on the key concepts of resilience.

    [31:14] Practical applications of resilience in the field of recruiting.

    [39:09] Why emotional influence and biases play a huge role in your decision-making.

    [42:29] What should you do when a candidate ghosts you?

    [46:49] Zooming in to Emotional Intelligence - what is it and how do you develop it?

    [54:10] The 5 Pillars of Emotional Intelligence.

    [55:51] James shares his motto "Leave every room better than you found it" - use your positive influence.

    Understanding Resilience and Human Behaviour to Become an Effective Recruiter

    James explains his approach to mental resilience which focused on adapting to adversity. We discussed key topics o human behavior that can contribute to your success as a recruiter or recruitment business owner. The takeaways that well resonated with me are the following:

    Embracing Human Behaviour Insight: He zoomed in on the value of understanding human behavior, which he believes is a massive part of being an effective recruiter. When dealing with your team, a candidate, or a client, this life skill is critical to becoming effective.

    Leveraging Human Connection James also elaborated on the importance of engaging with someone on a very human level to bring out the very best of their performance. This is useful when coaching your team. James relayed very specific examples of how this has worked for him and his coachees and how this can work for you.

    Thriving Through Resilience The principle of resilience is about turning surviving into thriving. For you to become resilient, it is not always about being the strongest or the sharpest. It is about learning to adapt. For James, it is about changing quicker and adapting faster than everybody.

    Unveiling Emotional Intelligence James reveals his thought process about emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and understanding your emotions. These topics are relevant to the recruitment field, which is a people business.

    How Emotional Intelligence Influences Your Decision Making

    When we say resilience, we do not only refer to overcoming drastic events and momentous situations. For example, recruitment on its own is challenging as is due to its demanding and stressful nature, punctuated by daily rejection. You are dealing with human beings, who don't always do what they say or communicate transparently. A strong will and resilient mindset are critical components to be successful in recruitment.

    I had to ask James’ viewpoint on how to develop mental resilience. James argues that resilience isn't about suppressing emotions but understanding them through emotional intelligence. We talked about practical steps that can help you develop emotional intelligence. A good example is when dealing with people, may it be a candidate or your own team member. Emotional maturity includes overcoming conscious and unconscious biases to deal with your stakeholders effectively. James says our biases often make us see people as we want, not objectively. Look at their actions by making an objective timeline of people's actual behaviors to see their true patterns.

    We also discussed modern-day communication and how to deal with ghosting, which is becoming a more common trend nowadays. James gave his perspective on what prompts other people to ghost others and how this can be dealt with in the field of recruiting.

    The 5 Pillars of Emotional Intelligence

    James breaks emotional intelligence into 5 pillars:

    Self-awareness, emotional control, empathy, social awareness, and motivation.

    He elaborated on each of these pillars and shared insights on how their application. He talked about the biggest obstacles to motivation and self-improvement. James also shared his motto: "Leave every room slightly better than you found it".

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    James Elliot Bio and Contact Info

    A psychotherapist and resilience coach, who takes a close look at the scientific methods of the development of resilience, from observable neurobiological reactions to psychotherapeutic processes and proven psychological techniques to develop an individual's emotional resilience.

    Having served 14 years in the British Army's Airborne Forces, including as the second in command of the British Army's Mental Resilience Training Team, as part of the British Army's first Army Parachute Jumping Instructors platoon, operational deployment to Afghanistan, and two seasons as a strength and conditioning coach to a National League rugby team.

    Now working as a psychotherapist who works with a broad spectrum of high-achieving individuals including trail-blazing athletes, special forces operators, blue light services, CEOs, politicians, and vulnerable veterans to help the individual find their subjective fulfillment and state of emotional resilience.

    Fighting through childhood abuse, instability, poor mental health, and poverty, James Elliott uses his lived experiences to help relate the complicated psychological principles to his audience.

    Currently living in Essex, where he is still an avid supporter of his local rugby team, dedicated to a healthy lifestyle and developing his health and strength, James continues his studies currently at King's College London and is a father to a charismatic daughter.

    James on LinkedIn

    Tough Enough to Care website link (A Non-Profit that James support)

    Think Yourself Resilient: Harness Your Emotions. Build Your Confidence. Transform Your Life.



    People and Resources Mentioned

    The Chimp Paradox by Steve Peters

    David and Goliath, by Malcolm Gladwell

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Fostering a workplace where everyone wants to work can translate to positive employer branding. This is a critical factor if you wish to build your recruitment business to scale.

    Joe Curtis, my special guest, will tell us how they can launch and scale recruitment companies while building those as businesses that people want to work for. The first recruitment business Joe and his cofounders built, 3Search, launched in 2014, and currently employs 40 people. With the successful scaling of 3Search, Joe turned his attention to building the 11 Investments Group, now at 100 heads, with 6 recruitment companies within the group.

    In this episode, Joe shared his insights on they are able to have 900+ 5-star Google Reviews across their group, which is phenomenal for a recruitment company. We also discussed the value of diversity and inclusivity, as well as his take on the work-from-home and hybrid setup which is a recently hot topic.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:27] Joe’s recruiter and investor journey: How he left Michael Page and started his boutique firm.

    [06:41] Strategies for investing in startups instead of growing capital for the original business.

    [13:27] Turning mistakes into learning opportunities - Joe revealed their biggest learnings and how they use them to help new startups invest in their holding.

    [22:35] Having a shared vision and working well with co-founders.

    [31:00] What it takes to be recognized as a Great Place to Work.

    [38:49] Zooming in on inclusivity and behavior-based hiring.

    [47:45] Discussion on the hybrid and work-from-home setting.

    Critical Components When Launching and Scaling Recruitment Businesses

    Joe co-founded his first recruitment business, 3Search, in 2014 which currently employs 40 people. With the successful scaling of 3Search, Joe turned his attention to building the 11 Investments Group, now at 100 heads. I wanted to pick his brains on the core components needed to build and scale a recruitment business.

    From a strategic point of view, Joe tells the story of why they invested in startups. “Because we didn't want a multi-discipline business. We wanted a group of specialists,” he continued, “we champion small business, we champion entrepreneurship. and growth of small companies. And we have a platform that enables significant ownership to the guys that come in and found the businesses with us. We know how to scale and grow a recruitment business today in 2023, and we bring in founders who know their market well.”

    What does the roadmap look like when it comes to scaling a recruitment business? Joe explained how they use an investment model to adapt to the market. He also mentioned how important it is to be hands-on. You will also hear strategies for handling operational tasks such as accounting and marketing on a centralized approach. Most importantly, Joe also shared the mistakes and learnings that they had to take for the past 9 years and how they are leveraging them to help out recruitment businesses investing in their group.

    Running a Recruitment Business with Multiple Co-Owners

    Running a recruitment business with multiple co-owners can be challenging for several reasons such as decision-making, division of responsibilities, and communication. But what I think is most common is the lack of a shared vision. Leaders can have different ideas of what they're trying to accomplish. What advice would Joe give to recruitment business owners who are working with multiple or other partners? He discussed the following two key principles:

    Having an articulated vision in the short, medium, and long term.

    Constantly talk about what you are doing and building.

    As Joe describes it, “And these days, you know, we don't spend an awful lot of time together as a three talking about stuff, making decisions. So if you're not careful, you can start planning the future. on your own and then one of the others is planning a slightly different future. And as you kind of, as time goes on, those plans get further and further and further apart. So it's important to keep talking about what we're building.”

    Creating a Business That People Want to Work For

    Recently featured in The Sunday Times, Best Places to Work 2023, 11investment’s efforts have been recognized among the top-rated employers. This is an amazing feat, especially in the recruitment industry. Joe and his partners recognized that “hiring people is going to be hard in the recruitment industry and keeping people was going to be hard in their doing what we're doing.” They took proactive steps to ensure that they retain their valuable talents.

    Joe revealed the things that they are doing differently to foster an environment where people want to work. “This employer brand we're building is all based around us really striving to provide the best benefits package we possibly can as a holistic package for people. It's really important that we consider everybody's needs collectively rather than just paying as much commission as we possibly can or having an amazing holiday benefit or, yeah, we're trying to put everything together. So we do have an amazing commission structure, I believe. We do have a good holiday. We've got unlimited holidays… The goal is to provide the best environment we possibly can that enables everybody to flourish both professionally and personally.”

    We also discussed topics relating to hybrid and work-from-home setups, as well as what it takes to become a B-Corp-certified company.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Joe Curtis Bio and Contact Info

    Joe is a recruiter, founder of multiple businesses, and now a recruitment investor who is helping to build and scale recruitment businesses.

    Joe is the Director & Co-Founder at 11 Investments Director & Co-Founder at Recruiter Labs Director at 3Search

    11 Investments was named The Sunday Times' Top Place To Work for 16-34 year-olds in 2023.

    Joe on LinkedIn

    11 Investments website link

    3Search website link

    Recruiter Labs website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Adrian Romani on LinkedIn

    Anne Swain on LinkedIn

    APSCo website link

    Hibob HR Tool link

    Malcolm Gladwell’s podcast episode discussion on working from home

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • “Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) is a priority to the next generation of employees. Their expectation is to see leaders who look like them and to know organizations are committed to

    DEI long-term — not only during times of social crisis.” The Future of Recruiting 2023 LinkedIn Report

    Embracing diversity in the recruitment industry is a progressive move that not only brings commercial benefits. It is a long-term commitment that aligns with the values of the current and future employees. I am delighted to share this episode with a very special guest, Alexis Alvarez.

    Alexis is a diversity advocate and the founder of Career Rockstars, a boutique talent and diversity search firm that partners with lower and middle-market PE firms in the United States and Europe. In this episode, she shared how they became diversity recruitment specialists for lower and middle-market private equity firms, with diversity hires of 60-75%.

    Alexis has over 10 years of recruiting experience and is also a podcast host. Her show is called Take the Stage - Ladies Who Rock, conversations with rockstar women from the world of private equity.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:46] From the US to the Middle East and Europe - hear Alexis’ recruitment career journey.

    [12:30] How Alexis started her Private Equity (PE) recruitment firm.

    [21:39] Why truly embracing diversity can be a key differentiator to a recruitment company.

    [26:00] A retrospect to Alexis’ biggest achievements as a recruitment business owner including key learnings.

    [29:07] Do you consider yourself the biggest challenge in your recruitment career? Listen as Alexis shares how she can relate.

    [32:02] Discussion on how to dislodge self-limiting beliefs.

    [36:18] Career Rockstar’s critical success factor: Patience, Purpose, and Intention framework.

    [40:20] Launching “Take the Stage Ladies Who Rock” - adding value to the recruitment industry through podcasting.

    [51:12] David vs Goliath - the story of how Alexis won a huge deal over Heidrick & Struggles.

    [56:40] Navigating the unseen challenges of working full-time as a mom and recruitment business owner.

    Truly Embracing Diversity as a Key Differentiator

    Career Rockstars’ unique selling point is its commitment to diversity and inclusion. Alexis has a remarkable 60 to 75% diversity placement rate in her company. They prioritize diversity in their searches. This approach attracts like-minded firms that are also committed to diversity.

    What led Alexis to adopt this approach? She explained, “And I don't know why, maybe it's being, growing up in LA, you're in a really diverse setting... It was really like in 2020 when the world was falling apart. I'm seeing everything happen in the US. I just thought, what's happening, like, I could be doing more… I just thought, okay, well, what can I do? And that's really when I decided to double down on increasing the number of diverse candidates that are in my pipeline, at least. And that's really how it started.”

    Like me, you will also be inspired by Alexis’ passion and positive energy while sharing her story. How are you embracing diversity in your recruitment firm? Doing so is a progressive move that brings significant advantages. By fostering an inclusive culture and actively seeking diverse talent, recruitment companies create a more dynamic and forward-thinking business mindset.

    Operating Under the Patience, Purpose, and Intention Framework

    Alex shared her work framework involving patience, purpose, and intention. This is aligned with her business model and also a no-nonsense approach to coming up with solutions for her clients. Some valuable insights that Alexis shared are:

    Patience - this entails planning in advance and not over-complicating things.

    Purpose - having clarity on purpose and the “why” of doing things will lead you to plan with intention.

    Intention - this is credibility through action.

    This benefits Alexis both personally and professionally. She explains, “So not only with the clients that I work with and telling them how to help them and what they need to do and what patience in their context means and purpose and intention in their context means, but like with candidates who want to make a move, it's the same simple concepts that are applied, but just you're adapting them to different scenarios.”

    Dislodging Self-Limiting Beliefs

    A lot of us can relate to another key topic that Alexis and I discussed: overcoming self-doubt. When I asked her about the biggest challenges she had to face, she mentioned that her biggest obstacle is self-limiting beliefs. I admired how Alexis transparently laid out how she felt when she had to deal with insecurity, an impostor mindset, and self-doubts. We then discussed how she is able to greatly improve her confidence with the support of her husband. She also talked about the value of joining a coaching group.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Alexis Alvarez Bio and Contact Info

    Career Rockstars Founder, recruitment expert, and diversity advocate, Alexis

    Alvarez is a steward of capital...human capital. She delivers value-creating impact

    working with L&MM PE firms who want to increase their diverse hires and broaden

    their talent pools.

    With 15 years of recruitment experience, Alexis knows that firms simply cannot hire

    high-caliber diverse talent with a low-caliber, or non-existent, diversity strategy. She

    understands that attracting, and retaining, diverse talent requires patience, purpose,

    conscious effort, and intention. This approach, together with her positive energy and

    ability to find and attract outstanding talent, make her a true talent partner.

    Alexis’ commitment to diversity started as a child growing up in Los Angeles. As a

    first-generation American, she was raised to embrace different cultures, races, and

    religions, understanding from a very early age that being different was not a

    weakness but a strength. That upbringing has served as a guiding principle

    throughout her life: different is good and more often than not, great!

    Prior to founding Career Rockstars, Alexis led recruitment efforts in the European

    and Middle Eastern digital TV spaces, working with HBO Europe and StarzPlay Arabia. She holds an MBA from IE Business School in Madrid, Spain, and a BS in International Business from CSU Northridge. She is a lover of languages and considers herself a hard-core Godfather fan, and when not playing referee to her three young children, tries to squeeze in time for reading and sewing.

    Alexis on LinkedIn

    Career Rockstars website link

    Take the Stage Podcast link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    The 2023 Future of Recruiting LinkedIn Report

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#154 How to Improve Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion in Your Recruitment Process, with Jo Major

    TRR#102 How Recruiters Can Promote Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, with Chikere Igbokwe

    TRR#57 Diversity as a Differentiator – How Recruiters Can Attract 70% More Diverse Talent, with Helen McGuire

    TRR#12 The Commercial Value of Diversity and Inclusion in Recruitment, with Raj Tulsiani



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • "Selling without selling" refers to an approach or technique that focuses on building authentic relationships with potential customers and meeting their needs without resorting to pushy sales tactics. The goal is to create a positive and genuine interaction with prospects, building long-lasting relationships.

    This can be easier said than done, that is why our special guest, Mike Silverstein of Direct Recruiters, Inc shares how he applies this to his practice and he has helped developed multi-million dollar billers.

    Mike is the Managing Partner of DRI's healthcare IT and life sciences practice. In 2014, Mike was inducted into the Pinnacle Society, which is the nation's premier consortium of top recruiters within the direct placement and search industry. In 2016, Mike was named one of the most influential millennials by Staffing Industry Analysts.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [04:28] How getting fired from his first job led … Mike got into recruitment.

    [08:16] Building a practice from scratch in the middle of a recession

    [17:15] Figuratively depositing in the emotional bank account - hear young Mike’s strategy for building relationships with senior executives in transition.

    [22:30] Mike reveals why you should “Never sell on the first call!”

    [31:20] Practices on leads tracking and follow-up.

    [33:19] Why you must hire team members to complement what you’re good at.

    [38:24] Lessons learned in trying to grow a team.

    [39:56] The one thing you cannot teach your team members.

    [43:41] Hiring, mentoring, and developing million dollar billers.

    “Never Sell on the First Call!”

    Mike revealed the best advice he got when he was just starting as a recruiter.

    He shared, “I learned that if you can resist the urge to sell on the first call … you're going to land in the friend or, you know, consultant bucket versus the person that five minutes into a call is asking for something. And if you can resist the urge to sell on the first call, you'll have carte blanche to ask for stuff for the rest of your relationship because you've established yourself in the right part of somebody's brain.”

    I believe that this approach has contributed greatly to Mike’s success. Understanding the value of being genuine and authentic allowed him to gain respect from potential clients and other stakeholders. Mike shared how he applied these principles to grow a multi-million dollar practice.

    Hiring, Mentoring, and Developing Million Dollar Billers

    A fulfilling accomplishment in Mike’s career is how he hired and developed million dollar billers in their firm. Some of the talent he hired as rookies have gone on to become Partners. What are the key factors in build a team of high performers?

    Here are some insights that Mike shared:

    You cannot teach self-motivation: “I think one of the things I learned is you can't teach motivation. Like people have to be self-motivated. You can teach the skill, but you can't teach them motivation.”

    Build Relationships: Mike loves talking to people, whether it be candidates or senior executives, and would happily add value even if he is not pitching any business during the initial interactions. He described it as “depositing into the relationship bank”, which keeps him top-of-mind when there are positions that need to be filled.

    Be Top-of-Funnel Driven: “I've had to learn the hard way that you can't be relying on any one customer or any one relationship. And so I am obsessed with top of the funnel,” Mike says. Being consistent in top-of-funnel activities like marketing and business development is key to consistent billing.

    Complement Your Strengths with the Right Team Members

    Another topic that resonated with me is our discussion on the value of hiring the right team members. A lot of solo recruiters and recruitment entrepreneurs tend to attemp to do everything on their own. But the most successful business owners I know are those who know how to delegate and hire team members that complement their strengths.

    Mike shared how this has been a game-changer for him when he hired an experienced partner to complement his strengths and weaknesses. He said, “And if recruiting is a combination of art and science, I'm the artist and she's the scientist.”

    If you are a solo practitioner, you might be missing out on opportunities by not building a team. If you're in a boat rowing by yourself,you can only go so fast and so far. But if you have a whole crew who are rowing in the same direction, man, you can really motor!

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Mike Silverstein Bio and Contact Info

    Mike Silverstein is the Managing Partner of DRI's Healthcare IT Division and Life Sciences Practice. In 2014, Mike was inducted into The Pinnacle Society, the nation’s premier consortium of top recruiters within the direct placement and search industry. In 2016, Mike was named one of the most "" by Staffing Industry Analysts, the global advisor of staffing and workforce solutions.

    Mike founded the Healthcare IT practice in 2008. Under his leadership, the Life Sciences Practice has expanded and the HIT practice area has grown significantly year-over-year. Additionally, in 2011, Mike helped found what is now DRI's Hospital IT group as a Managing Partner, which is concentrated largely on Hospital IT staffing and consulting. With a focus on recruiting from the Executive Level and C-Suite through individual contributor roles within healthcare software and services organizations nationwide, Mike's diverse background helps him to identify exceptional individuals from startup companies to Fortune 500 corporations. Mike’s consultative style along with his personable approach enables him to develop trusted relationships with clients and investors in order to deliver high-caliber talent capable of leading companies in competitive and fast-changing business environments. Mike Silverstein is known as one of the top healthcare IT recruiters and life sciences recruiters in the United States.

    Mike graduated Cum Laude in Marketing and Entrepreneurship from Miami University, Oxford, Ohio. He is a Cleveland sports fan, and enjoys music, socializing with friends, and discussing politics.

    Mike on LinkedIn

    Direct Recruiters website link

    Direct Recruiters on Facebook

    Direct Recruiters on YouTube

    Direct Recruiters on Twitter

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Pinnacle Society

    The book mentioned: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team

    Kasey Kaiser on LinkedIn

    Dan Charney on LinkedIn

    Fernando Espinosa on LinkedIn

    Norman Volsky on LinkedIn

    Chris Shoettelkotte on LinkedIn

    Rich Rosen on LinkedIn

    Crelate - recruiting software

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#182 Growth Mindset: How to Conquer Self Doubt and Become a Top Biller, with Fernando Espinosa

    How to Build a $6M+ Practice by Hiring and Training Top Performers, with Norman Volsky

    How to Create a Unique Value Proposition and Sell Retained Executive Search, with Chris Shoettelkotte

    Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

    If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.

  • The most successful recruiters and recruitment business owners are constantly learning and evolving. While average performers often think they know it all, the top 10% are never satisfied in their quest for continuous improvement.

    Someone who has reinvented himself multiple times over his 30-year recruitment career is my special guest, Fernando Espinosa.

    I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did. Fernando is an incredible recruiter who’s filled as many as 500 roles in one year - that’s more than a placement per day! But the reason I most admire and respect Fernando is his humility.

    Fernando has navigated several economic recessions and business setbacks. In the process, he has overcome self-doubt and limiting beliefs numerous times throughout his career. His passion for personal growth and development stems from his sincere desire to become the best version of himself on a daily basis.

    Fernando is the President and CEO of Top Notch Finders, Inc., a member of Sanford Rose Associates (SRA) Network. With over 3 decades of excellence in the field, Fernando’s firm recruits top-tier executives for manufacturing sites in Mexico, LATAM, and the United States. He also has expertise in executive roles across Europe, Asia, and the Americas.

    Fernando’s been a member of The Pinnacle Society since 2007, a collective of the top 80 headhunters in North America.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:54] How Fernando got into the recruiting industry.

    [04:52] Placing 30 to 40 people per month and launching Top Notch Finders.

    [10:47] Making more than one placement a day - how Fernando did it before the internet!

    [15:43] Practice makes progress - Fernando shares how he became fluent in English.

    [18:21] Transitioning from a successful recruiter to becoming a recruitment business owner and returning as a solo recruiter.

    [22:00] Reflection on overcoming limiting beliefs.

    [34:00] Why and how you should avoid the “Lion Syndrome.”

    [35:45] Shifting from contingent to retained and engaged.

    [46:04] What makes Fernando one of the top recruiters in the US? Hear his incredible story of how he filled 500 positions in a year.

    [53:18] The biggest lessons Fernando has learned that make him a successful recruiter today.

    [55:07] Why Fernando invests in coaching and personal development despite his great successes.

    Become a Successful Recruiter by Overcoming Self-Limiting Beliefs

    A key topic that really resonated with me in this conversation with Fernando is his mindset on limiting beliefs.

    He shared his story of resilience when the 2008-09 Global Financial Crisis hit their recruitment business: “We went from $6 million to about $500,000 in sales. So we had to let go of many people. It was a brutal experience. We felt like we were, we had imposter syndrome because we weren't what we thought we were.”

    He had to part ways with his business partner and he had to start over by setting up his solo shop. This is how he described the situation: “I had to start all over again… And of course, also the limiting beliefs. When you have limiting beliefs and you don't know that you have limiting beliefs, that affects your ability to reinvent yourself, to create a better version of yourself. And I have tons of limiting beliefs, self-limiting beliefs.”

    Can you relate to Fernando’s experience? Have you faced a setback so hard that it affected your mindset and you would not know where to start? You will likely be inspired by how Fernando overcame this hurdle by reinventing himself throughout the years and improving in many different ways.

    Evolving from Contingency to Retained Recruiter - and Billing $700,000 in 8 Months with One Client

    I have always advocated the value of the retained or engaged search model as a win-win solution for both clients and recruiters. That is why I was interested to hear how Fernando transitioned from 100% contingent to retained search. He shared mainly two key pointers in doing so:

    Understanding the dynamics of engaged and retained search processes.

    Overcoming the biggest obstacle in transitioning to a retained - his own beliefs.

    Fernando shared his first retainer project and how he started to engage his clients in this new approach by working on positions that most competitors and talent acquisition teams are struggling to fill. He then asked for a low retainer - of one to two thousand dollars, just to get the commitment of the client. He then turned it into an incredible $700k billings in eight months!

    At the time that this episode is published, Fernando is getting a 60% success rate in his retained search.

    Continuously Reinventing Yourself in a 30-Year Recruiting Career

    My main takeaways from this episode are Fernado’s astounding humility and appetite for learning. As he mentioned, he has reinvented himself continuously in his 30-year recruitment career. We actually recently started working together as part of our coaching group. This is despite him already billing $1M+ yearly, having already extensive training from SRA, being a member of Pinnacle, and doing so many things right in his recruitment business.

    This is how he concluded our conversation:

    “I believe that it is very critical to develop the best version of yourself on a daily basis. When you settle with the version of yourself, you automatically put a stop to your growing and your developing. I always believe that I don't have all the answers… I always know that there are people with different perspectives, different ideas, and different thought processes that I can learn from and that I can enrich myself. And I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to listen to an expert recruiting coach that has been very successful helping other recruiting owners.”

    Our Sponsor

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained

    Fernando Espinosa Bio and Contact Info

    Fernando has more than three decades of search experience in search. Since 1994 involved in assisting clients from North America, Europe, and Asia to solve a variety of dedicated search, recruiting, outplacement, employee engagement and retention, cultural sensitivity, and other human-resource-related issues in their Mexico, Latin America, and US/Mexico border region operations.

    He is the first credentialed member of The Pinnacle Society from Mexico. Membership in The Pinnacle Society is limited to 75 of the highest-performing recruiters in North America. Membership is attained only by meeting an exceptionally high standard of recruiting production and after a thorough review and approval process by its Board of Directors. Member of the Board of Directors for NAPS (National Association of Personnel Services). District Director for the US West Coast.

    Fernando on LinkedIn

    Top Notch Finders website link

    Top Notch Finders on Facebook

    Top Notch Finders on YouTube

    Sanford Rose website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    The Pinnacle Society

    Karen Schmidt on LinkedIn

    Jeff Kaye on LinkedIn

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Sales is the lifeblood of every business. It’s almost impossible to scale your recruitment company without a consistent flow of new business. Yet many recruitment agencies are lacking an effective and repeatable sales process.

    My next guest, Alex Elliott, has designed an effective client acquisition system that yields consistent, predictable results. It enables him and his team to focus their efforts on the right things, optimize the customer experience, and make data-driven decisions to drive revenue growth and business success.

    However, designing and executing an effective business development system is easier said than done! In this episode, Alex reveals how they designed their client acquisition funnel around four core sales processes.

    Alex also shared best practices and tips on how to consistently share value-adding LinkedIn posts, and how to structure your business for scale.

    This is Alex’s second time on the show. The last time was way back in December 2019, before the pandemic. He shared the story of co-founding Liquid Personnel with Jonathan Coxon and how they scaled to a 100M revenue business and became the number one market leader in their space before exiting via a sale to Private Equity.

    Alex is now an investor and Strategic Advisor with Strive, headquartered in Manchester. Strive provides Go To Market professionals for disruptive VC-backed tech startups and scaleups across EMEA and the US.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:46] The three steps to consistently post good LinkedIn content.

    [10:30] How to structure an effective LinkedIn post using the AIDA formula.

    [14:18] Mark and Alex share perspectives on LinkedIn posts’ return on effort.

    [19:15] Why Alex invested in Strive Recruitment.

    [23:30] Alex discusses how they structure their business for scale.

    [36:15] The four core sales processes to design an effective client acquisition system.

    [44:53] How to use Sales KPIs the right way to get better results.

    [55:18] Core marketing channels that Alex’s team focuses on.

    Consistently Sharing Value-Adding Linked Content with a Strong Opening Hook

    Posting on LinkedIn consistently can build your professional brand, expand your network, attract top talent, engage with your audience, and promote your organization. If you are a recruitment business leader, you should set an example for your team.

    Alex shared his thought process on why he consistently posts:

    “I think because I've gone into the SaaS space … one of the things I noticed early on sort of going into that industry, a lot of the leaders, the sales leaders, the go-to-market leaders, and also just the CEOs within that space take personal responsibility for building their own brand. Which in turn has a huge, potentially huge positive impact on the business's brand. So I think I saw that and I was kind of motivated to see whether we could do the same.”

    Alex revealed his three steps to be consistent in creating good LinkedIn posts:

    Decide to make posting on LinkedIn a habit.

    Create a workflow. For example Alex writes all his LinkedIn content for the week on Sunday afternoon.

    Bank your ideas. Alex has a note on his phone where he captures ideas throughout the week. Then when he sits down to create content, he can bang out multiple high-quality posts quite quickly.

    He elaborated on how he formulates his content using the AIDA (attention, interest, desire, action) principle. We also talked about our perspectives on the return on effort on LinkedIn posting.

    How to Structure Your Recruitment Agency for Scale with Career Pathways

    “We have multiple career pathways… If you want to scale a recruitment business, you can’t just keep adding heads and heads and heads. You have to build some of the infrastructure which is going to support that growth. One of those things is career pathways.”

    I am 100% aligned with Alex regarding the importance of creating a well defined career path for your team members. For Strive - it is about ensuring that a framework or path is in place for their new joiners. Specifically, they design these paths to ensure that they work on their team’s strengths, rather than the usual progression of biller to manager.

    Alex shared the career path layout for their team members covering delivery, business development, account management, technical, and management routes. We also discussed how the 360, 270, or 180 models fit their organization.

    How to Design an Effective Sales Strategy and Funnel

    Another topic that I love in this conversation is how Strive have designed their client acquisition and sales funnel. Focusing on business development and marketing is an absolute must for building a sustainable and resilient recruitment business. Doing this minimizes the chance of getting into a feast and famine rollercoaster that many in the industry are experiencing.

    You will find value in Elliott’s explanation of the four core sales processes:

    Territory Management

    Call Management

    Opportunity Management

    Account Management

    Alex also generously shared the platforms or media that they mostly focus on for their business development campaigns.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained



    Alex Elliott Bio and Contact Info

    Alex is an Investor and Strategic Director at Strive. Following the sale of his recruitment firm, Liquid Personnel, in 2016 (PE sale), he has now joined the Strive Board of Directors to help scale the business and support our international expansion. A Quote Alex lives by is "Excellence is achieved by mastery of the fundamentals".

    Alex on LinkedIn

    Strive website link

    Strive on Facebook

    Strive on Instagram

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Adam Richardson (Strive co-Founder) on LinkedIn

    Harrison Scott (Strive co-Founder) on LinkedIn

    Cracking the Sales Management Code by Jason Jordan

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#2 Setting Up A Recruitment Business For Scale with Jonathan Coxon and Alex Elliott

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Is it possible to exit a small, boutique search practice where the owner is one of the primary billers? My special guest, Stephan Aschenbrenner, has found a way of making it possible.

    Stephan is the CEO of EO Executives, a franchise network with offices throughout Europe. In 2011, he joined EO executives to build out their German territory. And after four years, they became one of Germany's top 50 executive search and selection firms. Stefan became the managing director of EO International Group in 2016 and became the owner in 2019.

    Stephan’s goal is to help executive search professionals to build and scale a partner-led executive search firm and achieve annual billings of 2-4 million. The idea is to build a sustainable business that could be sold to a successor with a significant equity value.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:52] Stephan discusses the challenges and solutions to sustainably scale small boutique executive search firms.

    [10:40] How Stephan’s retail background relates to growing recruitment businesses through partnership and franchising.

    [14:05] Helping franchise partners to grow - Stephan shares the tools they provide.

    [18:50] Leverage Level - enabling partners to maximize their time and productivity by providing assistants.

    [21:45] Team Level - spreading business relationships within the partner’s team.

    [26:30] Developing others - billing while building teams.

    [33:50] Fostering a culture of training and coaching.

    [43:33] Finding and retaining the right partners in a franchise setup.

    [49:50] Building the equity value of a search firm.

    [54:43] Why 12 is the magic number?

    [57:32] Leveraging technology platforms.

    Enhancing Small Boutique Firms' Growth through the Power of Franchising

    Scaling an executive search firm is very challenging. Stephan described from his own experience how it can be disappointing to invest time and an immense amount of funding to train and onboard new consultants who will end up leaving your business.

    As Stephan shared, “You're always putting the money from the strong builders and investing in the newcomers. And then the other thing is that's what we learned in the UK especially…the better the people are, the sooner they just go for a higher paycheck. So it always was a kind of high turnover. We spent so much time training the people and the people said, ‘thank you for the training. This was probably the best training I ever got. But sorry, now I go to London, for a bigger paycheck.’ So it was a constant turnover in the company.”

    I think this is the experience for many owners who want to grow - the frustration and difficulty can cause many to give up pursuing their dreams of building their businesses. In our coaching program called Apex, we have dedicated business owners who are looking to scale their recruitment business between 5-25 people. We know the difficulty of achieving a strong successful company - but it is absolutely doable!

    Stephan shared another solution - that is through a partner-led franchise business model. This business model is where they find committed recruitment entrepreneurs who are senior executives themselves, train them, and give them the processes to run a successful search firm.

    The value they provide, as discussed by Stephan throughout this episode is helping recruitment-business owners to:

    Grow their team without the risk of investing in expensive fee earners.

    Grow their team while remaining to be a strong fee earner at the same time.

    Help them attract high-fee earners who will stay with them for 5-10 years.

    Have additional revenue streams.

    Prepare the business for succession planning.

    Why Business Leaders Should Embrace Coaching

    Stephan and I discussed the value of business owners and leaders embracing coaching. That is, being coachable and becoming coaches themselves. Stephan says, “Coaching is one of our favorite themes in EO… I am a certified business coach now… We are now training all of our leaders in this coaching habit as well.”

    If you are a recruitment business owner, I most certainly believe that coaching is a top priority. It is a skill that can be developed and improved, and can certainly be a game–changer for your business.

    Leveraging Technology to Support Partners

    On top of training, EO also provides technology platforms to its partners. Stephan shared about Executive Intro (their white label version of i-intro), a technology platform that allows their partners to differentiate their service and win retained searches. They also provide CRM and ATS platforms for all their partners, allowing them and all their partners to work on the same systems and leverage each other’s networks to make more placements.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained



    Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

    Stephan Aschenbrenner Bio and Contact Info

    Stephan used to work in large international companies as an employed executive. He loved all the benefits and the “security” such firms could provide him. Then the dot-com bubble burst, the world went into recession, and he and his wife found themselves unemployed at the same time.

    This was the time he decided to change his career and Stephan started his first company. In the following 10 years, Stephan and his team helped more than 2.000 entrepreneurs to find their right business idea and actually get started. During the financial crisis of 2009 he started EO Executives in Germany and within 4 years had built it into one of the TOP 50 Executive Search Firms in Germany.

    In 2016 he became CEO of EO International and in 2019 he became the owner of the EO Group. Stephan is a certified business coach and during the Covid Crisis, he became a partner in the biggest business coaching network worldwide.



    Stephan on LinkedIn

    EO Executive website link

    EO Executive on Facebook

    People and Resources Mentioned

    i-intro website link

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#91 How to Start, Scale, and Sell Your Recruitment Business in 7 Years, with Karla Reffold

    TRR#123 How a Recruitment Business Launched, Scaled, and Sold for $12,000,000 in 5 Years, with James Caan

    TRR#111 Enjoy Exponential Growth: How to Scale and Sell a Recruitment Firm for €32 million, with Tom Hopkinson



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  • Billing $6M+ in 2022 is no small feat, and my special guest, Norman Volsky revealed how his team of 10 was able to achieve a phenomenal per-desk average. Norman shared valuable insights on building your team and attracting high-potential recruiters, using an internship program to establish a talent pipeline, and how to approach the challenging role of a billing manager.

    Norman is a managing partner at DRI. Since 2011, he's led the digital health practice at DRI and has built a 10-person team billing $6M+ in revenue in 2022. The Pinnacle Society welcomed Norm as a member in 2021. And interestingly, in 2022, DRI managing partners merged with Kay Bassman and Sanford Rose Associates to form Starfish Partners.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:30] Norman shares why he started his podcast.

    [03:35] How Norman got into recruiting through an internship.

    [07:40] Factors leading to becoming a successful billing manager.

    [16:54] How DRi way of working is different from most recruitment firms.

    [23:15] Why finding top clients matters as much as finding top candidates.

    [30:59] Avoid the “something better than nothing” mentality.

    [32:20] How an internship setup fits a recruiting business.

    [38:14] Topic on internal recruitment: how to attract recruiters with the highest potential.

    [44:40] Sharing the success of their internship program.

    [46:49] Becoming the best example for your team and focusing on the other party’s best interest.

    [54:26] Networking into companies - calling a level up to get referred down.

    [58:04] How Norman juggles his billings while supporting his team - 3 focus areas.

    [01:04:30] Norman shares their flat team structure.

    How to Adopt the Internship Model to Build Recruitment Teams

    It may be a rare practice in the recruitment industry, but it’s worth exploring how an internship program could benefit your business. Norman shared the story of how he got into recruitment - from starting as an intern with no salary to becoming a Managing Partner. As the first intern in the history of DRI, his firsthand experience shows that an internship is effective in finding recruiters with the highest potential.

    He revealed how they are using this model in building their team, which has proven to be very successful. Norman’s team of 10 is billing more than $6m, which is phenomenal per desk average. He shared their thought process in implementing their internship program:

    “I was the first and only unpaid intern, but it ended up working out well, so no hard feelings. But our paid internship program is purely in our opinion an opportunity for us to get some talented. individuals exposed to recruiting and for them to get a couple of months of experience and to know whether it's for them. I think a lot of recruiting, it's a great career for a lot of people, but it's not for everyone. It is a lot of rejection. It is a lot of hard work. It is a lot of betting on yourself. Some people want more security than that. Some people want a little bit more of a defined career path as opposed to a lot of ambiguity. So for the right people... It's an amazing career and we want people exposed to that.”

    Would you consider creating an internship program for your recruitment business? This could help you build your team, create a solid talent pipeline, and even boost your branding as an employer.

    Juggling the Tasks as a Billing Manager

    Norman functions as a Managing Partner and a billing manager - which I believe is the toughest job in recruiting. You're managing your own workload, your own client base, and doing deals. And at the same time, you're also training, coaching, mentoring, managing your team, and trying to get that balance right is challenging. Norman walked me through how he is able to cover these tasks with great success. Here are the takeaways:

    It is really important to start with why and focus on your own motivation.

    Learn from the best, and surround yourself with the best people.

    Build your team smartly, think outside the box, and be different from other hiring companies.

    Practice what you preach, lead from the front.

    Overcoming impostor syndrome with the right mindset.

    As Norman puts it, “I think hiring the right people makes your life a lot easier. So that definitely stacks the deck in your favor. I think the other thing is you've got to practice what you preach. You got to lead from the front. You got to show a work ethic and the standard of excellence and the importance of quality. And if you lead by example, you know, people want to rise to that standard. I think that's really, really important. “

    The Three Focus Areas When Scaling Your Business

    Norman also revealed the three focus areas which are key to his team’s success. You will hear him discuss the importance of finding top clients and why it matters as much as finding top candidates. He also shared how to attract the right talent when it comes to internal recruitment and the value of delivering the best training, coaching, and mentoring. Lastly, we talked about being strategic when allocating assignments to your team members and ensuring that you are making great matches for your clients.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained



    Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

    Norman Volsky Bio and Contact Info

    Norman is a Managing Partner at DRI (2011-Present). Norm built the Digital Health team at DRI beginning in 2017 and his 10-person team has scaled it to over $6M in revenue in 2022. The Pinnacle Society welcomed Norm as a member in 2021. Along w/ the rest of the DRI Managing Partners, DRI merged w/ Kaye Bassman and Sanford Rose Associates in 2022 to form Starfish Partners. Norm spoke at the SRA Conference in 2022 (the topic was Best Practices working w/ Venture Capital backed companies) and will be speaking on the Pinnacle Society Panel at NAPS in 2023.

    Norman on LinkedIn

    Direct Recruiters Inc. website link

    Listen to the Digital Health Heavy Weights Podcast

    The Pinnacle Society website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Mike Silverstein on LinkedIn

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Top billers typically have one or more “cornerstone clients.”

    These key accounts are ones you can build your business on because they use you exclusively and give you lots of repeat business. My special guest, Katherine Jerald, is someone who’s mastered the art of client development.

    Katherine is the founder of Elray Search, a firm that is committed to solving the biggest talent needs of middle-market clients in the aerospace, satellite, and defense firm. She’s also a member of the Pinnacle Society.

    What’s fascinating about Katherine’s story is that she’s a second-generation recruiter. She remembers the first day her father opened a recruiting firm. She actually got to skip school at the age of 12 to help set up the office computers.

    Katherine later rejoined her father's search firm, FPC Portland in 2015 as an executive recruiter, and opened an FPC office in Lake Oswego, Washington. During her tenure within the FPC franchise network, Katherine was the five-time winner of FPC's “Top Recruiter” Award.

    In this episode, Katherine shares the skillset and mindset that enabled her to become a top producer and successful business owner. She reveals some killer strategies for winning and developing clients, plus how she transitioned from contingency to 100% engaged search.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:06] How Katherine’s father influenced her career path as a recruiter and owner.

    [06:13] Was it easier or harder working in a family recruitment business?

    [11:30] Success factors to becoming a five-time top recruiter in the FPC network. (client-side development, grind, and hustle)

    [16:48] Strategies for identifying, breaking into, and caring for the correct accounts.

    [21:14] Pitching a relationship instead of a transaction in a recruitment call.

    [25:16] Katherine shares her process for developing client relationships.

    [32:12] How commitment plays a big part in Katherine’s success.

    [33:24] Transitioning from being a top recruiter to launching her own firm - Katherine shares her story.

    [37:29] Discussion and thought process on engaged versus contingent search.

    [45:49] Creating your “irresistible offer” - most recruiters don’t understand this!

    [49:55] Hiring and building your business - how Katherine started growing her team.

    [58:06] Katherine reveals her selling style.

    How to Become a Top Recruiter: Hustle, Grind and Focus on Client Development

    During her tenure at FPC, Katherine was the five-time winner of FPC’s top recruiter award. What’s her secret?

    According to Katherine, “The baseline is you gotta hustle and you gotta grind. And most people do not want to work that hard.” But of course, that can't be all there is to it because I also have seen recruiters work really hard but still not get the same results that Katherine does.

    She then revealed the differentiator: “I would say it's been really connecting and developing the client side.” Katherine is aware of the importance of client development. She shared her strategies for finding the right account, landing that business, and caring for the relationship. This strategy leads to her getting referrals which leads to more businesses and clients.

    Katherine also gave tips on how to pitch without being too salesy, how to establish relationships during a recruitment call instead of being purely transactional, and her process for developing those accounts.

    Transitioning From Contingency to an Engaged Search

    The most exciting part of Katherine’s story is how she recently launched her own recruitment firm, Elray Search. They officially launched on April 1 of this year, and in their first quarter they’ve taken off like a rocket ship, which is fitting since they specialize in aerospace and defence.

    One of the key shifts that Katherine made when she started on her own is that she hasn’t accepted any contingent searches since their launch. How does she pitch this engaged search to her clients? Here’s some of her verbiage:

    “We ask for ten grand to kick things off.”

    “What you can expect from me is weekly update calls. We do a video chat, we'll record them so I can share them with my team as well.”

    “Hey, I'm gonna do your first interview for you. Just tell me what questions you want me to ask. You can watch it on video when you're on the airplane.”

    “If you're not happy with what we're doing after three weeks, I'll give you your ten grand back.”

    Katherine added, “Guess how many have asked for it (the $10k deposit) back? Zero!”

    Katherine also discussed how she started to build her team - having just hired their third member very recently, and how it helped her be free from the 360 model.

    Pitching it the Right Way

    I love Katherine’s mindset when it comes to pitching: “So the whole like the premise is, nobody likes a hard sell anymore. And this is totally contradictory to what we, you know, how it was taught 20 years ago, where you're trying to say, ‘Hey, can I accept on your behalf?’ That doesn't work anymore.”

    For Katherine, it is all about attraction rather than promotion. By asking the right questions, she is able to nudge a candidate to start talking and building a relationship, which eventually leads to successful placements. Katherine added, “I tell them, ‘Hey, I'm never gonna try to talk you into something. At the end of the day, you're always gonna do what's best for you and your family, and everybody should understand that. And if they don't, they don't have the right intentions’.”

    Katherine shared so many golden nuggets, but that little script was my absolute favourite. Could the same approach be effective for you and your recruiters?

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained



    Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

    Katherine Jerald Bio and Contact Info

    Katherine is a second-generation recruiter. She remembered the first day her father opened a recruiting firm; she got to skip school at the age of 12 to set up office computers.

    She received her bachelor’s in business from the University of Oregon in 2004 and her MBA in finance from Washington State University in 2015.

    She rejoined her father’s search firm, FPC Portland, in 2015 as an executive recruiter and opened an FPC office in Lake Chelan, Washington. She specializes in defense, satellite, and aerospace technologies. During her tenure at FPC, she was the five-time winner of FPC’s Top Recruiter award.

    In 2022, Katherine launched Elray Search, LLC, a firm that is committed to solving the biggest talent needs of middle market clients in the aerospace, satellite, and defense firm.

    Katherine is a member of the Pinnacle Society.

    She was a 2022 Pinnacle Conference Speaker and a 2022 Whitman Partners Conference Speaker. She is also an active member of SSPI (Space & Satellite Professionals International) and Leading Ladies of Aerospace.

    Katherine on LinkedIn

    Elray Search website link

    Elray Search on LinkedIn

    The Pinnacle Society website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Seven Ways to Get New Clients Fast Ebook

    $100M Offers: How To Make Offers So Good People Feel Stupid Saying No, by Alex Hormozi

    Crelate

    Jon Bartos on LinkedIn

    Josh Braun on LinkedIn

    Allan Fisher on LinkedIn

    Wes Ashworth on LinkedIn

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher

    TRR#132 How to Break Out of a Slump and Bill an Amazing $420k in 5 Months, with Wes Ashworth



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Starting a recruitment agency is hard. Being a great recruiter is no guarantee you’ll be a successful business owner. There are thousands of competent, hard working recruiters who struggle when they go out on their own.

    That’s why my next guest, Mike Williams, is so remarkable. In his first 12 months, he billed $900,000. He’s now up to $1,200,000 since he started the business 15 months ago.

    Mike is the founder and President of Carnegie Partners, based in Charlotte, North Carolina. He’s a manufacturing and engineering recruitment specialist. I’m honored to count Mike among our clients here at Recruitment Coach.

    You’ll enjoy hearing Mike’s journey because he reveals some of the secrets to his success while being honest about the moments of self-doubt that we can all relate to.

    One of the things Mike has mastered is creating original content on LinkedIn as a key part of his business development strategy. In this interview, Mike shares how to generate content ideas and posts consistently on LinkedIn. Plus we discuss the importance of posting videos to engage with your target audience.

    Mike has an impressive track record as a top producer. In his first 5 years in agency recruitment, he won "Perm Rookie of the Year" plus President’s Club 5 years in a row. He then founded Carnegie Search in February 2022.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [01:15] How Mike got into recruiting and started his own business.

    [06:30] Why recruitment leaders must create a defined career path for their team members.

    [08:35] Mike’s thoughts on how to retain your top recruiters.

    [11:37] From top recruiter to successful recruitment entrepreneur: two key success factors in hitting the ground running.

    [16:06] Building relationships by meeting clients in person and visiting manufacturing companies.

    [25:22] How digital marketing, social media, and LinkedIn played a critical role in Mike’s success.

    [28:33] Mike shares his LinkedIn strategy - how it helped him win business and the barriers he had to overcome.

    [35:35] How to overcome fear when posting content online.

    [41:24] How to generate ideas and create content consistently.

    [49:05] Why you should consider posting videos on Linkedin.

    [51:18] Mike revealed the roadblocks he encountered and his big learnings to date.

    Hitting the Ground Running - Making a Successful Transition from a Recruiter to a Recruitment Business Owner

    How was Mike able to hit the ground running so fast in his transition from a top recruiter to a recruitment business owner? “I think the biggest thing was a little more strategic, which was the niche that we defined … and the geographical area where I decided to do it.”

    Mike’s approach was very analytical, studying the industry trends and looking at the cities with the highest growth. This research even influenced where they decided to live. He explained, “I knew that I liked working locally and meeting the companies and the candidates in person because I felt like it gave just a leg up on the rapport and relationship building.” I think this was a smart move. When I was a recruiter running a desk, we always insisted on visiting our clients in person. Aside from building rapport, as Mike also mentioned, meeting up with clients is a “good litmus test of how serious they are about working with you.”

    Posting on LinkedIn to Build Your Brand and Develop New Business

    Mike is good at cold calling and routinely makes cold calls to both clients and candidates. However, he also leverages LinkedIn as a key component of his business development strategy.

    Mike is a firm believer that you can win clients through LinkedIn. You will hear an amazing story about how Mike received an inbound enquiry from a VP of HR at a billion-dollar company because of a story he posted on LinkedIn. That senior executive became a client and gave Mike a lot of repeat business, which might never have happened without that LinkedIn post.

    Mike also shared how consistent posting helps build a “continued relationship” with potential leads that you may have a cold called before. Here are things that you will find insightful in this section of the episode:

    Why consistent posting can win your clients in the long run.

    Overcoming fear and imposter syndrome when posting LinkedIn content.

    How to generate ideas for your LinkedIn content.

    Why You Need to Post Videos on LinkedIn

    What I also admire about Mike’s LinkedIn strategy is how he is not shying away from posting videos. What is his thought process in creating video content? He shared two things:

    There are “certain topics that don't lend themselves all that well to just text form” and can be best shared with a video.

    Building digital rapport. Mike puts it this way, “Well, I want to get people to get to know me. So if you want to get people to get to know you, do you think that they're gonna get to know you and feel like they know you better from something that you write or from seeing you talk and looking at you visually? Obviously, visually is better.”

    When was the last time that you created and posted a video on LinkedIn? If you want differentiation, increased engagement, and to demonstrate expertise, posting a video is something you can start. In our coaching group, sharing ideas and best practices for posting video content is a recurring discussion topic.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained



    Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

    Mike Williams Bio and Contact Info

    A former top biller for a publicly traded recruitment firm, Mike successfully built a direct hire practice from scratch, earning Rookie of the Year and Presidents Club honors. He was a perennial top 5 producer nationwide, competing in a group of hundreds of recruiters each year.

    An avid networker, passionate career counselor, religious Wall Street Journal reader, and overall headhunting evangelist, Mike has spent years building the skillsets to successfully attract top talent.

    Mike founded Carnegie Partners with the vision of a search firm that would have the following differentiators. A Democratized Structure – An employee-owned company where everyone is eligible for equity partnership. A Culture of Success: Core Values of Continuous Self Improvement and a Determination to Succeed. World Class Service: A client-centric approach that aims to fully understand our clients and bring their stories to our candidates.

    Mike on LinkedIn

    Carnegie Partners website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    25 Best Performing LinkedIn Posts

    Rich Rosen on LinkedIn

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#67 Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen



    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • What are the factors that drive short-term results while ensuring the long term success of your recruitment business?

    If you have ambitions to grow your recruitment agency, you’ll enjoy my conversation with Kevin Burch the CEO and co-founder of Questpro Consultants. Since they opened in 1996, Questpro has grown to a team of 35 people providing four service offerings: temp, retained/contingency, executive search, and college graduate placement.

    In this episode, Kevin shares three of the secrets that have contributed to sustainable growth for the long run:

    Fostering a culture of achievement and empathy

    Diversifying revenue streams

    The mindset of embracing technology and staying relevant

    QuestPro, a staffing and recruiting firm based in Dallas, Texas specializing in the insurance and risk management industry nationwide.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:02] Kevin shares his perspective on collaborating, sharing ideas, and being in a community with competitors.

    [08:20] How Kevin got into recruiting.

    [12:42] Staff retention - How QuestPro’s staff tenure is way above average.

    [21:28] Getting rid of toxic people to protect your business culture.

    [27:09] The role that caring and empathy play in your business.

    [34:37] How Questpro diversifies its revenue streams.

    [42:16] Giving back to the insurance industry with their QGrad Division

    [50:56] Embracing technology to evolve and stay at the forefront.

    Protecting Your Business Culture From Toxic People

    Over the last 25 years, Kevin has built a team of 35 people which is already an achievement on its own. But the thing that stood out to me is how he is able to retain these talents. He has 3 or 4 people with a tenure of 20 years, several more in the 10-15 range, and some between 5-10 years. Out of his 35 team members, only 11 are under the 2-year tenure. If there is a key factor contributing to this phenomenal achievement, it is Questpro’s working culture. Kevin shared how they celebrate little things and big things, initiate fun contests, and reward and recognize performers. These engagement activities in Questpro are actually initiatives from the top management. For Kevin, the culture that they have is a culture not only of achievement but also of caring and empathy.

    Kevin also discussed the importance of protecting their culture by letting go of toxic members that can disrupt team dynamics. He shared their story where they had to let go of large producers for the greater good of the group. Despite being a small company at the time, he was willing to let go of a big revenue contributor for the well-being of others. You will hear how making this move led to their company hitting their best revenues the following year that they made that decision.

    Diversify Your Revenue Streams

    Kevin has a tremendous experience with permanent, retained, contingency, and contract staffing. He shared a very interesting mix in his business that includes 50-50 on temp and permanent (direct hire). They have four service offerings, namely:

    Questpro – Contingency and Retained Search

    QTemps – Temporary and Temp-to-Hire Contract Staffing as well as Payroll Services

    QGrads – Internships, Entry-Level, and College Graduate Placement

    QExecs – Executive Placement through Seasoned Contract Executives

    As Kevin said, “The theory that if you are a temp company you surely can’t be a permanent staffing partner, or you can’t be a retained partner is not true.” They even offer a “Grad Division” which helps keep the industry they serve full of fresh talent.

    For recruitment business owners, the idea of diversifying your revenue stream is critical for success. If you are currently doing only direct hire or perm placements, for example, consider adding recurring revenue streams such as temporary, contract, or interim.

    Keep on Learning and Embracing Technology

    Another takeaway from this episode is how Kevin and his team embrace technology. Being a recruiter for more than two decades, Kevin finds the last few years have been interesting and they have seen a big flip in how business is done. We discussed how they are staying at the forefront of their market, such as:

    Using videos when interacting with clients and candidates

    Best practices for using text messaging effectively in their search process

    Discussion of available tech tools and platforms that they use in their business

    For Kevin, re-learning and embracing technology is an advantage that contributes to his longevity in the industry.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained



    Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

    Kevin Burch Bio and Contact Info

    Kevin co-founded Questpro Consultants in August 1996. Kevin went from the next great sportscaster and play-by-play man to sitting behind a desk and dialing for dollars! Now 25 Years later, he can safely say that it is the best decision he ever made. From coast to coast, Kevin and his team match top-notch insurance talent with the absolute best Insurance Carriers, Brokers, TPA, and more.

    When he’s not playing KOAR (King of All Recruiters), Kevin is at home with his lovely wife, Lauren, and three sons, that continue to challenge and keep him young: Parker, Owen, and Taylor. Kevin is also addicted and frustrated all at once by golf but loves the game.

    Kevin on LinkedIn

    Questpro website link

    Questpro on Facebook

    Questpro on YouTube

    Questpro on Twitter @Questpro_

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Gail Audibert on LinkedIn

    Simon Lafosse on LinkedIn

    Bullhorn

    TextUs

    Hinterview

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#116 How Treating People Well Delivers 30% Annual Revenue Growth for 15 Years, with Simon La Fosse

    TRR#153 Meet The Recruiter Who Survived And Thrived Through Four Recessions, with Gail Audibert

    TRR #171 4 Essential Skills that All Recruitment Business Owners Need to Be Successful, with Chris DiNaso

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Imagine growing your revenue by €100,000,000 in less than 3 years!

    How is this possible?

    In this interview, my special guest Gerard Koolen explains how he and his business partners at Lugera were able to increase revenue from €130M in 2020 to €234M by 2022.

    You’ll discover the critical success factors, which include: leveraging technology - and even developing their own software, constant improvement through training and development, and empowering employees to make decisions.

    What’s even more remarkable is that Lugara’s office in Ukraine had their best performance ever in the midst of a war and they’re currently hiring 26 more recruiters.

    Gerard is the Group Managing Partner of Lugera, a multinational recruiting and staffing agency. Gerard started Lugera in Slovakia in 1996 and is now operating in 11 countries in 30 offices with 700 internal staff and 15,000 temps. In fact they’re the biggest independent staffing country in Central and Eastern Europe. In 2022, Herard partnered with James Caan to create Recruitment Entrepreneur CEE.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:30] Lugera has grown by €100,000,000 in the last three years.

    [07:30] True resilience - how the Ukraine office has continued growing despite the war.

    [18:57] Increasing revenue through training and coaching.

    [25:45] The benefits and challenges of training and coaching remotely.

    [27:36] Gerard shares how they adapt and leverage technology.

    [34:30] New Talent Base (NTB) - how their custom ATS builds networks automatically.

    [40:51] How technology is a key factor in Lugera’s success.

    [44:32] With 700 employees, Gerard must empower people to make decisions.

    [46:49] Why Gerard opted to invest and build their own recruitment platform.

    [54:23] NTB’s lead generation feature.

    [58:48] Partnering with James Caan and Recruitment Entrepreneur.



    True Resilience: How Lugera’s Ukraine Office Achieved Record Breaking Performance

    The most remarkable part of the interview was when Gerard shared the story of his office in Ukraine and what they have achieved in spite of the invasion by Russia.

    “This has to be for us a challenge to grow our business. We said to each other when the going gets tough, the tough get going, and let us see what we can do. A miracle happened, and last year was our best year so far in Ukraine. Can you imagine?” This is how Gerard described it: “The team even when there was a bombing in Kiev they were sitting in bomb shelters with internet and they are still working.”

    It’s hard to imagine a more challenging scenario. How did Gerard ensure the well-being of his team members? He explains how they relocated their team to Bucharest. Gerard’s business partner in Ukraine did a tremendous job organizing the logistics, from booking hotels to hiring buses to ensure the safety of their team.

    People lost their houses and there was a lot of panic and chaos, but luckily all their team members were safely relocated to Bucharest. They did not waste any time and immediately went to work. Their mindset and camaraderie were incredible.

    Due to the invasion, thousands of recruitment agencies in Ukraine closed down. At the same, thousands of vacancies opened up, especially in factories. That is why Gerard’s team had to step up and support their market, despite a very challenging environment. They were able to achieve their best year so far and have continued growing. They’re even in the process of hiring 26 more recruiters in their Ukraine operations. Truly an inspiring story of resilient recruiters!

    Increasing Revenue Through Coaching and Training

    Since I last talked with Gerard three years ago, his firm has grown by acquisition, but also organically.

    Gerard believes that growing rapidly is the most dangerous period for an agency. "Usually quality goes down, you have to pay a lot of salaries but you get your money later.” To manage this risk, they put emphasis on training and coaching their existing people.

    He elaborated on how they structured their coaching and training. Every country has an extensive 2-week onboarding program, plus ongoing training for the whole company including weekly webinars.

    We discussed the benefits and challenges of training people remotely, and agreed that in many ways it’s easier to train remotely versus in a classroom setting. Gerard suggested mixing up the groups so that people from different teams and countries have the opportunity to meet and learn from each other.

    Enhancing the Recruitment Process by Leveraging Technology

    Another key success factor for Lugera’s rapid growth is that they embrace and leverage technology. He shared how they are launching new software that focuses on recruitment automation and AI. Gerard knows the value of technology and how it has impacted their business drastically. This is why he is investing so much in developing tools and software that truly fit the needs of recruitment businesses. You will hear about their Automatic Network Builder embedded in their New Talent Base software.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained



    Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

    Gerard Koolen Bio and Contact Info

    Gerard is the owner of Lugera, a multinational recruiting and staffing agency. Gerard started Lugera in Slovakia in 1996 and is now operating in 11 countries from 30 offices with 700 internal staff and 15,000 temps. Lugera is focused on Permanent Staffing, Temporary Staffing, Payroll & Outsourcing. Gerard is crazy about helping as many people as possible get a better job. He is help driven, he thinks that innovation is key and is a front-runner in innovative HR technology.

    Gerard on LinkedIn

    Gerard on Facebook

    Gerard’s blog link

    Lugera website link

    Lugera on Youtube

    STAA website link

    If you are interested to be a partner in using STAA, get a 50% discount for listeners from the podcast by emailing [email protected] and mentioning Mark Whitby.

    People and Resources Mentioned

    James Caan on LinkedIn

    Bullhorn

    Recruitment Entrepreneur

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#25 How to Build a €130M Staffing Business in Emerging Markets, with Gerard Koolen

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  • Meaningful relationships are foundational to success in recruitment. The challenge is that building a network and earning trust takes time. For many recruiters, it can take years to become established in their market niche.

    What if there was a way to speed up this process and achieve faster results?

    My special guest, Steven Li, has discovered a way to build relationships at scale by organizing meet-ups in his sector. Steven’s strategy has enabled him to progress from a rookie recruiter at Robert Half to the Top Biller in APAC within three years.

    Hosting events isn’t a new concept, but Steven has really taken this strategy to the next level. In fact, Steven is renowned for his cybersecurity events in Tokyo and they’ve become so popular that he holds a lottery to determine who gets to attend.

    In this episode, Steven shares his learnings and best practices on how to organize events that add value to his sector. He revealed his process for running successful meet-ups, the mistakes he’s made and insights gleaned along the way.

    Steven is a Senior Division Director at Robert Half Japan and specializes in Cyber Security recruiting. In 2022, Steven was recognized as the top biller across APAC, as well as managing the number one perm team.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [02:30] From financial services to recruiting - Steven shares his story.

    [09:00] Why “simple does not always mean easy” and how Steven turned things around after his initial struggles as a recruiter.

    [12:21] Fast-tracking his career to becoming a top biller in just three years.

    [21:06] Adding value - how Steven organizes events for the cybersecurity community.

    [32:14] Leveraging LinkedIn to make your meet-up a success.

    [40:13] Things to do (and not do) when hosting events.

    [47:01] Steven talks about leadership and innovation.

    [51:00] Making the transition from top producer to billing manager.

    [58:38] Having a mission that goes beyond you as an individual.

    Building Relationships at Scale by Organizing Meet-Up Events

    Steven is a Gen Y recruiter who believes in the value of working smart. In 2019, he quit his job in the Financial Markets and moved to Tokyo to become a recruiter. He thought it was going to be easy but when the pandemic came in 2020, his resilience was tested which drove him to work smarter.

    Steven took inspiration from Greg Savage’s advice on branding and becoming a micro-celebrity in your marketplace. He connected this to the idea of building relationships at scale in recruitment, and that is when they started doing these meet-up events.

    He shared his learnings on hosting events and how to make the most of them. Here are some takeaways that we covered:

    How he hosts invite-only events to build a safer community for cybersecurity experts.

    How they were able to hold these events in prestigious locations such as Google, Microsoft, and even the British Embassy.

    Learning from past mistakes, especially on the logistics.

    Things to watch out for - such as ensuring there’s no selling or pitching at the event.

    How did this benefit Steven and Rober Half? He became the APAC top-biller in 2022, which was only his third year in recruitment. Plus, Steven’s strategy has now been adopted by other divisions. Robert Half Japan is now hosting community meetup events for Cyber Security, Data, Developers, Consulting, and Executive Search

    Having a Clear Mission That Goes Beyond You

    Steven has a “mission that goes beyond himself,” which is to build a stronger cybersecurity community in Japan, by giving people the platform to share the best ideas and thoughts. This is something that I also firmly believe: if you have a clear mission, that is bigger than you or your company goals but is one that everyone in your market can get behind, then people will go out of their way to help you.

    Having this clarity on your “WHY” and purpose, and how you are able to connect it to how you will add value to your community is a vital key driver to success. Like so many of our guests, successful recruiters and recruitment business owners find ways to add value to their community. Hearing Steven’s story on how he is able to tie up his marketing with his mission can inspire a lot in our industry to do the same.

    Developing Leadership Skills

    Steven is still ‘young’ as a recruiter, but what I also admire about him is how he takes ownership of his development. Top billers don’t necessarily make good managers. Steven has fast-tracked his career because he’s taking responsibility for his own development, proactively seeking to refine his leadership skills through books, mentorship, and coaching.

    This is true with tenured and seasoned recruitment business leaders that I know - they never stop learning and developing. Leadership is a lifelong journey, and there is always room for growth and improvement, regardless of experience.

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained



    Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

    Steven Li Bio and Contact Info

    Steven is the Senior Division Director at Robert Half Japan specializing in cybersecurity Recruiting. In 2022, Steven was recognized as the top biller across APAC, affirming his position as a leader in the field. With a passion for creating a safer cybersecurity community in Japan, Steven is renowned for his cybersecurity events. These events, hosted at prestigious venues such as Microsoft, Google, The British Embassy, and Deloitte unite industry professionals to share knowledge and insights. Prior to his successful recruitment career, Steven gained valuable experience in Market Risk oversight within the Financial Markets Sector in Australia.

    Steven on LinkedIn

    Cyber Risk Meetup website link

    Cyber Risk Meetup on YouTube

    Steven on Twitter @StevenLi1650

    Robert Half website link



    People and Resources Mentioned

    Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter, by Liz Wiseman

    The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari, by Robin Sharma

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter



  • What are the biggest trends that affect the future of agency recruitment? Are you positioned for success in the rapidly evolving world of work?

    With advances in Open AI and the growing popularity of remote work and the gig economy, the recruitment industry is set for a major transformation in the next 5-10 years. This shift might cause fear and uncertainty among recruiters, however if you’re aware of the trends, remain agile and are willing to adapt, you can capitalize on the tremendous new opportunities that will be created.

    Join us in this episode with special guest, Rob Green, as we explore the future of agency recruitment amidst the rapidly changing technological landscape. Rob reveals his insights based on extensive research and shares the specific steps his company is taking to stay relevant.

    Rob Green is the CEO and Founder of The GRM Group, a holding company that combines leading recruitment, research, recruitment tech, and management consulting brands, all servicing the global legal industry. With 20 years of experience in the recruitment industry and having placed lawyers in 40 countries, Rob brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the discussion.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [03:05] Why and how Rob’s business model has evolved since we last spoke. [08:00] How skill matching platforms will change the recruitment industry. [14:57] Why Rob created a research company, GRM Intelligence. [26:45] The future of the recruitment industry. [29:40] Core trends that are changing the way that we work. [40:30] How should you adapt your recruitment business to stay relevant? [47:33] Preparing for the future; why Rob is investing in Umbiie.

    The Three Meta Trends That Are Changing the Recruitment Industry

    Recruiters and recruitment business owners are always interested to know how technology such as Opan AI will affect the industry. You’ll enjoy hearing Rob’s fascinating insights about the future of work, based on the research report that he commissioned. His research team identified three trends that will transform the way people work and how companies recruit:

    The Sharing Economy / Gig Economy

    Global Talent Pools / Distributed Teams

    The Skillset Revolution

    Rob urged the listeners to zoom out from the world of recruitment for a minute and realize how the world is changing based on the above three meta trends. We also discussed the growing “gig economy,” and how talents prefer to work from anywhere in the world and would prefer project-based instead of full-time. If you fear that AI will take a majority of jobs in the future, that is not the crazy part. Rob cited a report by Dell Technologies which it states that “80% of all the jobs in the next decade that we'll all be working in haven't even been invented yet.”

    What does it mean for you as a recruiter or a recruitment business owner? As Rob very well puts it, “There's going to be a whole new way of recruiting, a whole new skill set of recruiting. And we can prepare for this.”

    Leveraging Skill-Matching Platforms for Recruitment

    Rob dived into how they are adapting to the trends of the shared economy and shared data by means of technology. They are using the platform StiiNT.iT (Stint It) - to simplify their process and maximize potential. The platform is a private-labelled recruitment technology where “Professionals across the world are vetted and skills verified creating anonymous profiles. These profiles will be searchable and accessible, whether it sits on someone else’s platform or your own – building a collaborative talent pool, ensuring 100% matches, and removing unconscious biases.”

    Rob’s team has white-labeled the Stint It platform to create Umbiie (umbiie.com), a global skills-matching platform for legal professionals. It’s not a perfect comparison, but this is the equivalent of Bumble for recruiting - the idea is that candidates choose which employers can unlock their profile.

    Rob shared how they deal with data privacy and how the platform can be monetized. As he stated, “This is really not a pitch because I don't get anything out of this. This is just, do you wanna prepare for the future? Do you believe that there's going to be pressure on contingency recruitment? If you do, there is a solution out there.”

    Our Sponsors

    This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro and Recruitment Entrepreneur.

    i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you’ll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained



    Recruitment Entrepreneur is the world’s leading Private Equity firm specializing in the international recruitment industry. If you’ve dreamed of starting, scaling, and selling your recruitment business, this is your chance. James Caan and his team at Recruitment Entrepreneur are actively seeking ambitious recruiters in who they can invest. They provide everything you need to grow a successful recruitment business including funding, financial expertise, coaching and mentoring, operational strategy, back-office support, marketing, and talent attraction solutions. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Start a conversation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/vc

    Rob Green Bio and Contact Info

    With two decades’ experience in the recruitment industry, Rob has recruited lawyers in 40 countries, working with firms and companies from the biggest in DLA Piper, Bank of America, Facebook, Alibaba, and such like, to small one-person law firms, looking to double in size. Rob launched his career with the leading financial services agency, Badenoch & Clark, in London. Following his relocation to the Cayman Islands in 2005, he joined one of the Caribbean’s top recruitment companies, CML, to establish the region’s leading legal recruitment provider. In 2009, Rob became a partner in the business and moved to Hong Kong to grow the business and become one of the top consultancies in Asia. He took full ownership of the Hong Kong branch and rebranded as GRM Search in 2013, winning 15 industry awards in 8 years and working with some of the most coveted legal firms, MNCs, and financial institutions in the world. Enticed by the link between Africa and Asia, Rob opened GRM Search’s first office in South Africa in Johannesburg in 2014. He moved with his family to settle in Cape Town and spearhead the growth of the business into the African continent in 2017. GRM has had notable successes in Asia, Africa, and Australia, with some failures along the way to keep him humble. Rob regularly shares his views on the legal job market with industry publications, business radio shows, HR seminars, and law graduates at HKU, Stellenbosch University, and UWC. He is renowned for his global outlook, experience, legal market knowledge, and down-to-earth approach. In his spare time, Rob is the proud founder and chairman of South Africa’s first soccer program for special needs children (GPS Vikings FC) and a part-time boxing ring announcer as well as a doting father and husband.

    Rob on LinkedIn

    Rob on Instagram

    GRM Search website link

    GRM Intelligence website link

    GRM Group on YouTube

    Umbiie website link

    Rob’s Podcast, Legal Unicorns

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Stiint It website link

    The Three Meta Trends - Revolutionizing the Way We Work

    Why Umbiie - Revolutionizing the Legal Industry

    Korn Ferry Article: 2030: The Very Human Future Of Work

    Korn Ferry Article: The $8.5 Trillion Talent Shortage

    Article on Dell Report: 85% of Jobs that will exist in 2030 haven't been invented yet

    Napoleon Hill: Think and Grow Rich

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

    Mark on LinkedIn

    Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

    Mark on Facebook

    Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

    TRR#96 The Benefits and Challenges of Expanding Your Recruitment Business Overseas

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter