Episoder
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STILL PUSHING THE BOUNDARIES. Sir Norman Rosenthal celebrated his 80th birthday on November 8th 2024. A curator and art historian, he was Exhibitions Officer at Brighton Museum and Art Gallery, a curator at the Institute of Contemporary Arts and for many years Exhibitions Secretary at the Royal Academy in London. Recently he curated Georg Baselitz: The Last Decade at the Sabancı Museum in Istanbul. His Roberto Matta 1911-2002 opened at Ca’ Pesaro, Venice on October 25th 2024, and he is curating David Hockney’s April 2025 exhibition at Fondation Louis Vuitton, Paris.
"Art is a complex story, and one has to pick out the great artists who have their own vision of the world."
"I always liked to do things with other people."
"I'm very proud to be having a dialogue with David Hockney"
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IN MEMORIAM. Joseph Rykwert CBE died on October 18th 2024 at the age of 98. One of the foremost architectural historians and critics of his generation, Rykwert spent most of his working life in the UK and the USA. He was the Paul Philippe Cret Professor Emeritus of Architecture at the University of Pennsylvania and taught the history and theory of architecture at several institutions in Europe and North America. His many influential works on architecture include The Idea of a Town (1963), On Adam’s House in Paradise (1972), The Orders of Architecture (1982), The Dancing Column (1996), and The Seduction of Place (2000). All of his books have been translated into several languages.
I visited Joseph often at his house in London’s Hampstead, and on 9th July 2021 he generously agreed for our conversation to be recorded and to take part in what would become this final interview. We publish it here for the first time because it was made to be able to remember and celebrate Joseph’s ‘gloriously erudite’, light-hearted voice at the time of his passing. Sadly, even if he lived to a considerable age, that time is now upon us.
"I don't think there's one outstanding figure in my generation, there are a lot of second rank figures but there was not one figure of the stature of Corbusier."
"Frank Lloyd Wright was a genius. Some of Wright’s buildings are impressive. I met him once, but not as a pupil. He was very antipatico, very exploitative of all the people who came to learn from him."
"I think of myself as superficial and ignorant, because I just haven't read enough."
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CONTINUING THE RENAISSANCE. Lorenzo Fiaschi is one of the three friends who founded the very prestigious Galleria Continua art gallery in San Gimignano, the town with a fantastic and famous skyline of medieval towers in Tuscany, Italy.
"We aimed to be in the moment, to continue from the past, and to move toward the future. That's why the name: Galleria Continua."
"My idea was to build bridges to help Cuba — cultural bridges between Cuba and the rest of the world."
"It's about seeing people happy and enjoying the projects we are doing when they say, 'Wow!' — creating emotions."
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INDEXING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. Alexandra Mousavizadeh is a Danish economist and CEO of Evident, an intelligence platform that benchmarks and tracks Artificial Intelligence (AI) adoption across the financial services sector. Prior to June 2022 Alexandra was a partner at Tortoise Media in London and creator of The Responsibility 100 Index and The Global AI Index. Alexandra specialises in index creation, using data to build benchmarks that rank nations and companies on key social and technological issues.
“We have never seen technology change this quickly.”
“Implementing AI in a business is a difficult task and requires a compete re-think of how the business is organised.”
“The race has never been this intense before.”
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AN HOMAGE TO FRIENDSHIP. Thomas Persson is a creative director, editor and brand consultant. His understanding of fashion, culture and corporate identity is a resource for global fashion and beauty companies in their visual communication and brand building projects. He created “Acne Paper” an acclaimed magazine published by Acne Studios. He art directed global advertising campaigns for leading fashion brands including Armani and he made two books on the legendary photographer Snowdon. Today he is once again at the editorial helm of a reborn “Acne Paper”.
“A magazine is a beautiful way to connect with the world.”
“There is something about the book and some magazines that, when they are well done, the Internet and social media can’t really compete with it, because it’s an object.”
“There’s always one favourite image that sings to me, so it’s not a difficult choice, it stands out.”
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CELEBRATING INDIVIDUAL SELF-EXPRESSION. Erdem Moralıoglu is a British fashion designer and the eponymous founder of London-based fashion label Erdem, which he established in 2005. His Spring Summer 2025 collection was shown at the British Museum’s South Entrance amidst its 45 feet high columns. The show was based on The Well of Loneliness by Radclyffe Hall, published in 1928 and banned in the same year. The book gives voice and form to the love of two women at a time when the idea of gay love between two women was not even illegal, its very existence was denied as impossible. For Spring Summer 2025 Erdem pays homage to this story of the love of Stephen Gordon, a woman living as a man, and her relationship with Mary Llewellyn.
"I wonder if Radclyffe today would be considered non-binary or trans."
"When you see someone wearing something that you've designed that might be almost 20 years old, but it's absorbed into their life and they wear it in their own way, I find that really wonderful!"
"You can't help but look backwards when you're about to turn 20, but it also feels like the beginning."
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EXPLORING HYBRIDITY. Dr Amin Jaffer is Director of The Al Thani Collection. He is responsible for working with the Centre des Monuments Nationaux and a global team in the creation of a museum space for The Al Thani Collection at the Hôtel de la Marine, Paris. He is also Artistic Director of the 2025 edition of the Islamic Arts Biennale in Jeddah. For 10 years he was International Director of Asian Art at Christie’s. At London’s Victoria and Albert Museum he was External Exhibition Curator responsible for the exhibition Maharaja: The Splendour of India’s Royal Courts.
"When I went to meet the maharajas I was fascinated by their hybrid existence."
"When we do an exhibition at The Al Thani Collection we don't just show beautiful things. There has always to be a very strong premise behind it and a real purpose."
"When the French public came to see the Renaissance show, their response was that they had no idea The Al Thani Collection is so rich in the Renaissance."
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A MISSION TO MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH. Gad Elmaleh is a stand-up comedian. Born in Morocco, after attending French schools in Casablanca he went to Montreal for 4 years. He was a political science student for a year, worked on radio, wrote humorous stories and played them in night clubs. In 1992 he took The Cours Florent theatre course in Paris. Through his one-man shows Décalages and La Vie Normale Gad was revealed as a humorist, and he is an actor who starred in various movies. Gad has two sons: Noé with actress Anne Brochet, and Raphael with Charlotte Casiraghi.
"I love doing movies, but there is nothing I found in my life that can equal and get to the same level of intensity, excitement, adrenaline as the madness of the live performance."
"We experienced such a peaceful relation and fraternity in Morocco with Jews and Muslims. This is quite unique in an Arab country."
"Making people laugh is a great thing, but also is a therapy for a lot of people."
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WRITING NEW CHAPTERS. Kamel Mennour is an Algerian-born French art dealer. In 1999 he founded Galerie Kamel Mennour in Paris. Today Mennour is a contemporary art gallery representing over forty artists with four exhibition locations in Paris.
“I was part of the art scene which was offering a very stimulating position for Paris as a big place on the world map for art.”
“The work has to have something very particular that I can become obsessed with.”
“We are growing a trinity between the artist with his artworks, the gallery, and the collector.”
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REINTERPRETING HERITAGE IN THE NEW WORLD. Leonardo Ferragamo, the fifth son of Salvatore and Wanda Ferragamo, is the Chairman of Salvatore Ferragamo S.p.A. since 2021. He studied economics at the University of Lausanne (UNIL), then at Columbia University. He started working for Ferragamo in menswear, and created Ferragamo Men Division. Today, he is also President of the Lungarno Collection of hotels in Florence, Rome and Milan, and CEO of Palazzo Feroni Finanziaria, one of the Ferragamo family’s two holding companies, which operates in real estate and other diversified businesses. Leonardo Ferragamo is also President of Sawa SRL, which has to do with his personal love of sailing boats and in particular the Nautor Swan yachts, to ensure whose future on August 1st 2024 he sold to Sanlorenzo, a worldwide leader in the production of made-to-measure yachts.
“Heritage is one side of a river from which to build the bridge into the future.”
“I want to make sure that the long-term future of a company and a brand like Swan, loved by so many people around the world, has a route over perennity, supported by a very credible group so as to launch it in the long-term future.”
“You have to know what you’re going towards, what can happen to you, and you have to be aware of the unexpected things that can happen, and when they happen be prepared how to face them and not be scared because they are happening.”
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A RESTAURATEUR ON THE FLOOR. Jeremy King is a well-known London restaurateur. He created some of London’s most iconic restaurants with his former business partner Chris Corbin, including The Ivy, Le Caprice and The Wolseley. In 2024 Jeremy King reincarnated Le Caprice as Arlington to great acclaim, and his latest venture is the all-day restaurant The Park.
“I love clarity in a restaurant, which I feel with The Park that we have.”
“I work on the basis that the food should never be deemed expensive.”
“I realised it is impossible for me to see every customer when they come in, but I can see every member of staff every day, and they see every customer.”
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AN ARCHITECTURE OF OPTIMISM. Amanda Levete CBE is a Royal Institute of British Architects (RIBA) Stirling Prize winning architect and founder and principal of AL_A, an international award-winning architecture studio in London. Since its formation in 2009, AL_A has refined an intuitive and strategic approach to design and urban thinking.
“There’s only one thing in life that you cannot design, and that is heritage.”
“We are using architecture to message the technological optimism of fusion.”
“A historic context has this built-in resistance that forces you to think in a certain way.”
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A FIGHTER FOR EGALITARIANISM AND JUSTICE. Judy Chicago is an artist, author, feminist, cultural historian, and educator who lives and works in New Mexico, USA. In 2018 she was named one of Time Magazine’s most influential people, and she has garnered an enduring stature. Born Judy Cohen in 1939, and known briefly after her first marriage as Judy Gerowitz, Chicago attended the Art Institute of Chicago and the University of California, Los Angeles. In 1970, she adopted the surname ‘Chicago’ and initiated the United States’ first Feminist Art Programme at California State University, Fresno. Chicago became particularly well known for her 1970s installation The Dinner Party. In 2024 her show Revelations is at London’s Serpentine and Herstory is at LUMA Arles.
“Feminist art promotes diversity. I believe that every voice counts.”
“I look at the history of art as the history of men’s art, and so feminist art opens the way for a history of women’s art.”
“I don’t think people quite understand how much work it is for an artist to have three shows within one year.”
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CLASSIC WITH A MODERN TWIST. Charles Zana is a highly sensitive architect who imagines each project through the lens of a French lifestyle. He is also a passionate collector like his father, and has done in-depth research on the great Italian design masters of the 20th century such as Ettore Sottsass and Carlo Scarpa. In 2019 Charles Zana was named Chevalier des Arts et des Lettres by David Caméo, director of the Musée des Arts Décoratifs.
“I like to always start from a classic design, and then to treat it in a modern way.”
“People don’t accept the simple beautiful project; they want to understand what is behind it.”
“I became a good architect and then I became fashionable.”
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THE ARTIST IS UTOPIC. Yinka Shonibare CBE RA is a celebrated British artist whose work explores cultural identity, colonialism and post-colonialism within the contemporary context of globalisation. His show Suspended States is at Serpentine from 12th April until September 1st 2024 and is his first London solo exhibition in over 20 years.
“Artists are always utopian in their thinking, but then somehow we always fail this utopia, because it’s never actually realised.”
“I was asking myself if can I make a work of art that’s really about nothing. Literally about wind.”
“I don’t want to make literal abstractions, but I can get to the sublime through reality.”
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THE PROMISED PARTY. Jennifer Clement is the President Emerita of PEN International and the author of multiple books, including Widow Basquiat and Gun Love. The recipient of many awards, her books have twice been a New York Times Editor’s Choice. Under her leadership at PEN International, and being the only woman elected since the organization was founded in 1921, the groundbreaking PEN International Women’s Manifesto and The Democracy of the Imagination Manifesto were created. As President of PEN Mexico (2009-2012), Clement was instrumental in changing the law to make killing a journalist a federal crime.
“The book is fragmentary in the sense that it is written in very short chapters. It is also the story of how I became a writer and a tale of two cities.“
“I felt it was very important that PEN International, the largest and oldest writers’ organisation, defend the right for writers to use their imaginations and be who you are not.“
“The gun shot low.”
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ENJOYING A NEW CHALLENGE. Minsuk Cho is the South Korean architect who has envisioned the Serpentine Pavilion 2024, the 23rd pavilion in the series, in London’s Kensington Gardens. It is titled Archipelagic Void as a unique void surrounded by a constellation of smaller adaptable structures, each of which has a specific purpose: the Gallery, the Auditorium, the Library, the Play Tower and the Tea House. Minsuk Cho trained in Seoul and New York, and worked in America and the Netherlands before returning to Korea to open his own practice, which he calls Mass Studies.
“Architecture’s unique language allows people to interact, engage and understand in a very positive way.“
“This Serpentine project is exciting because the whole thing only takes six months from conception to completion.“
“The world is changing, and I don’t want to become a jaded professional. I take everything as a new challenge.“
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WRITERS ARE UNBALANCED PEOPLE. Paul Theroux is an American novelist and travel writer known for his highly personal award-winning observations on many locales. Over 50 works of fiction and travel writing include modern classics The Great Railway Bazaar, The Old Patagonian Express, My Secret History and The Mosquito Coast. Theroux’s recent book, Burma Sahib, explores Eric Blair’s years as a British Raj police officer in colonial Burma that transformed him into the anticolonial writer, George Orwell.
"A novelist speculates, and that's my role in life: to invent, to imagine, and to create the person"
"The writer is defining himself or herself with each book"
"Most of my books are about a person, usually a man somewhat like myself, that needs to solve a problem"
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AGENT JOSEPHINE: A BETRAYAL TOO FAR. Robert Verkaik is a British author and award-winning journalist. He was the Home Affairs Editor of the Independent and the Security Editor of the Mail on Sunday. He is the author of Defiant: The Untold Story of the Battle of Britain, Posh Boys and Jihadi John: Making of a Terrorist, as well as the Sunday Times bestseller The Traitor of Colditz. He is a non-practising barrister and lives in Surrey. His most recent book is The Traitor of Arnhem: WWII’s Greatest Betrayal and the Moment That Changed History Forever.
"Blunt himself was responsible for editing the MI5 monthly briefings which were handed to Churchill, so was in a very good position to bury everything that Churchill may or may not have wanted to know about Agent Josephine and Arnhem."
"The arguments that Blunt was making about his own treachery are the same ones that some of the British jihadis were using to justify their own actions."
"Things haven't changed as far as the Russian leaders view the world."
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FOR THE SAKE OF THE WRITTEN WORD. Vera Michalski-Hoffmann spent her childhood in the Camargue, France, then studied at the Graduate Institute in Geneva, Switzerland. Together with her husband Jan Michalski, a Polish native, she founded the publishing company Éditions Noir sur Blanc. Together they developed the Libella group, which now comprises a dozen publishing houses in Switzerland, France and Poland. Jan passed away in 2002, and Vera created the Jan Michalski Foundation for Writing and Literature to perpetuate their shared commitment to the written word, to support literary creation and encourage reading. Vera Michalski-Hoffmann has received Polish and French prizes and distinctions, an honorary doctorate from the University of Lausanne, and is a UNESCO Goodwill Ambassador.
“We try to host as many events as possible that bring people back to the written word.”
“Unless properly controlled, the use of AI in the creative process could mean a great impoverishment of the world.”
“For the Gulag evening most of the people in attendance were older, and I would bet that more than half of young people simply don’t know what Gulag is.”
- Vis mere
