Episoder

  • You are listening to Behind the Design the Studio Lessons. Which brings us to the end of season 4. I want to thank all of my guests for taking the time to chat and give us a behind the scenes look into their design journeys.

    We’ve had some truly insightful conversations. And despite the uncertainty that continues to surround us at the time of recording there is a lot of hope and optimism and just getting on with things because we cannot and will not let a pandemic stop us from expressing ourselves and achieving our potential.

  • This is episode #5 where I am joined by designer Natsai Audrey Chieza.

    ABOUT Natsai:

    Natsai is a designer working at the intersection of technology science and nature and society. She is the founder of Faber Futures an R & D agency that is creating new spaces and strategies that relate to climate change and biodiversity loss, and the social structures that underpin our human survival. In our conversation, Natsai explains bio-design talking us through this exciting emerging technology and the implications it has on devising and creating better sustainable design solutions for our world.

    We talk about:

    The meaning of bio-design and why it matters Looking at alternatives to harmful materials and substances such as plastic and petroleum Finding solutions to problematic processes on an environmental and social level Cultivating and designing with living organisms What is it like to work with biology in a creative context where you start and what do you do Working with nature not against it The correlation between design and science how the two meet How she got into bio-design The real-world applications of bio-design and the other materials that can be created and applied
    the problems of fashion being a heavily polluting industry Responsible production in industry Why Natsai chose to start her company Faber Futures
    How having her own practice enables her to explore her ideas and work with the right teams and clients

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode:

    MA Central St Martins
    University College London
    Adidas x Stella McCartney
    Bolt Threads developed Mylo in partnership with Ecovative
    TEDTalk Fashion Has A Pollution Problem - Can Biology Fix It?
    CooperHewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum
    The Design Museum
    Gingko BioWorks
    Central St Martins MA Biodesign
    Bio-Integrated Design (Bio-ID) Bartlett School of Architecture
    BioDesign Challenge
    Global Community Bio Summit MIT


    Where you can go to find out more about Natsai and Faber Futures:

    https://faberfutures.com

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

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  • This is episode #4 where I am joined by object designer and academic Dr Pam Samasuwo-Nyawiri.

    ABOUT Pam:

    Pam is a multi-award-winning accessories designer, educator, and author, with her own label called Vanhu Vamwe. Her experiences of working with artisans and feeling personally part of the problem of exploiting vulnerable communities led Pam to study a PhD where she could explore the impact designers working with artisans have on their lives and how to make the process better by bringing true, sustainable value to these communities.

    We talk about:

    The struggle with having too many ideas, choosing what to focus on, and managing her time will juggling multiple projects The creativity of discipline Quitting her job and going back to university to study fashion Not being allowed to explore her creativity as a child, and the changing attitudes to pursuing a creative career particularly for those from an African background The role of culture and the futuristic aspect of her designs Her thoughts on cultural appropriation and finding common ground How sustainable design shows up in her work and the need to be transparent in her work with different cultures The difference between partnerships and collaboration How your attitude shapes your work Doing her country proud, and being recognised as a designer and not just a black designer How accountability partners and her faith help to keep her grounded Publishing a book How she challenges herself to grow and develop her craft

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode:

    Loughborough University
    Nottingham Trent Design School
    Abury
    A Woman with No Country

    Where you can go to find out more about Pam and her work:

    Vanhu Vanmwe

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

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  • This is episode #3 where I am joined by jewellery designer Audrey Migot-Adholla.

    ABOUT AUDREY:

    Audrey is the founder of Yala Jewellery an award-winning made in Kenya jewellery brand. In our conversation we talk about the meaning of sustainable luxury, collaborating with her artisan producers across continents, managing a business during a global health crisis, her thoughts on the spotlight being shone on black creatives as a result of Black Lives Matter.

    We talk about:

    Juggling all the hats in business What led her to start a jewellery brand What it is like working the 9-5 then 5-9 The role of mentors in helping her to start and grow her business Finding brand focus and how she did that Managing time and energy while going through the process Perfection - outsourcing weaknesses as much as she can Successfully working and collaborating with artisans Harnessing the power of networks to find people to work with Making the partnerships work across different continents, the role of technology, working out what can be done, and managing quality control Her sampling process The importance of sustainable luxury Getting Certified B Corp Managing Logistics Managing a business during a global health crisis The impact of BLM and the conflicted feelings as a result of the increased attention on black creative businesses How to stay the course

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode:

    Etsy


    The Wayback Machine


    London College of Fashion

    Shopify


    WhatsApp


    Certified B Corporation


    The Guardian Newspaper


    Ella’s Kitchen

    Companies House

    What it feels like to keep a small business going during a global health crisis

    @influencerpaygap


    Where you can go to find out more about Audrey and Yala Jewellery:
    www.yalajewellery.com

    @yalajewellery

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

    Continue the conversation, follow atelier 55 on:

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  • This is episode #2 where I am joined by architect and product designer Tosin Oshinowo.

    ABOUT TOSIN:

    Tosin is an architect with her own architectural practice called C M Design Atelier. She is also a product designer designing furniture using local fabrics under the brand Ilé Ilà. In our conversation, we talk about establishing her name as an architect in an industry with a notoriously high barrier to entry, cultivating the confidence needed to win contracts and the business support essentials that have enabled her to start and managing multiple businesses.

    We talk about:

    What inspired her interest in architecture and led her to set up her architectural studio C M Design Atelier The process of establishing herself as an architect How working from a place of insecurity is a strength The importance of presentation to build trust The importance of understanding the basics of setting up a business, being honest about your capabilities, and getting the skills you need Having a circle of people she can call on for help and advice Managing client and money relationships The types of projects she works on and developing her design signature Designing for the local environment and being aware of how people use space Her thoughts on the development of architecture across the African continent The impact of Covid on her practice and the local architecture/construction industry Embracing multiple income streams The opportunity that led to the creation of her chair design business Navigating the process of getting product to market Managing multiple businesses

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode

    Maryland Mall

    Kingston University

    University College London (UCL)

    OMA


    Where you can go to find out more about Tosin, CMD Atelier and Ilé Ilà:
    www.cmdesign-atelier.com

    @cmdesign_atelier

    www.ile-ila.com

    @ile.ila

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

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  • This is episode #1 where I am joined by textile designer Eno Jonah.

    ABOUT ENO:
    Eno is the founder of Nzuri Textiles, a brand of exquisitely handcrafted textiles with a focus on sustainable luxury. In our conversation Eno talks about the inspiration behind her designs, what sustainable luxury means to her, preserving artisan skills, and takes us on the journey from an idea through to finished textile.

    We talk about:

    Travelling and learning from other cultures Finding also that last and can be recycled The stories behind her designs The journey of a textile from an idea to finished product The meaning of sustainable luxury The journey of setting up a business Connecting to showrooms and how to find reps Getting her name out there and building visibility The impact of Black Lives Matter, and the need to keep the conversation going How she keeps challenging herself to grow as a designer

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode

    Atelier Qubere New York Gallery
    Moyi Magazine
    Maker Amsterdam


    Where you can go to find out more about Eno and Nzuri Textiles:
    https://nzuritextiles.com/

    @nzuritextiles1217

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

    Continue the conversation, follow atelier 55 on:

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  • A warm welcome to Season 4 of Behind the Design. Introducing another stellar line up my guests this season come from the worlds of textiles, architecture, product, and fashion design. Not to mention delving into academia, science and technology and their influences on design practice and the future of design.

    Just before launching this season atelier 55 my platform behind the podcast reached a significant milestone, by marking a decade of blogging curating and writing about contemporary design from Africa and beyond. Without atelier 55 and the amazing journey, it has led me on this podcast may not have come to light. Whilst celebrating the milestone and recording the season 4 episodes it almost slipped my mind that It has been a year since Behind the Design launched. Another milestone to celebrate and a huge thank you to you for downloading and listening, and may you be inspired by the season 4 conversations.

  • You are listening to Behind the Design episode #7 the Studio Lessons. Which brings us to the end of season 3. I want to thank all of my guests for taking the time to chat especially during the circumstances we currently find ourselves in to give us a behind the scenes look into their design journeys. They like most of us have experienced the upheaval and uncertainty of navigating their way through a pandemic and having to continually adapt as the world finds its way towards some sense of stability. And while we can never be sure about what tomorrow will bring their hope, optimism and can-do attitude helps them cut through the challenges.

  • This is episode #6 where I am joined by fashion designer and entrepreneur Mariatu Turay-Akar.

    ABOUT MARITAU:
    You are listening to episode number 6 of season 3. And joining me on the show is Mariatu Turay-Akar. Mariatu is the founder of Gitas Portal a London-based mid-luxury fashion brand that uses vibrant African wax cloth textiles to celebrate and promote cultural diversity. We talk about using fashion to inspire and empower women to be bold, how her faith helps her to stay motivated and push past the challenges of running a business, and how Gitas Portal has become a place of connectivity and healing for her clients. So let’s begin…

    We talk about:

    Gitas Portal a platform to empower women and using it to tell the stories of women Her role in promoting a positive image of brand Africa and telling our own stories What led to her starting her own business The politics of African fashion and prints The impact wearing colour has on ourselves and those around us Managing the negativity and flipping that into positive Growing up with role models who were fighters in what they believe in Standing her ground Staying relevant in changing times How nurturing and listening to her customers has helped her stay relevant Practicing self-care in business The meaning behind the name Gitas Portal? Realising when it was time to leave her business Recognising the signs that you are meant to be doing something

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode


    Where you can go to find out more about Mariatu and Gitas Portal:
    https://www.gitasportal.com

    @gitasportal

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

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  • This is episode #5 of season 3 Where I am joined by furniture and product designer Jomo Tariku.

    ABOUT JOMO:

    You are listening to episode number 5 of season 3. And joining me on the show is Jomo Tariku. Jomo is an Ethiopian / American artist and furniture designer. His company Jomo Furnitures creates pieces inspired by classical African design icons reinterpreting the forms for modern living.

    We talk about:

    The inspiration behind his designs and celebrating the diversity in African creativity What being a member of The Black Artists and Designers Guild, has had on raising awareness of his work Having a full-time day job and how he makes time to work on Jomo Furniture Finding suitable manufacturers to work with to realise his designs His thoughts on African design looking back on when he started to where he is now Underrepresentation of African design and black designers in general in the global design industry

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode

    Kansas University

    Addis Design Week

    Dubai Design Week

    Contemporary Design Africa

    Malene Barnett

    Black Artists and Designers Guild

    Milan Design Week

    Where you can go to find out more about Jomo Furniture:

    www.jomofurniture.com

    @jomofurniture

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

    Continue the conversation, follow atelier 55 on:

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  • This is episode #4 of season 3 where I am joined by textile designer Chrissa Amuah.

    ABOUT CHRISSA:

    Chrissa is a textile designer and the founder of AMWA Designs a brand of handmade textiles and print designs for the home. She is also the founder of Africa by Design a platform bringing together and creating opportunities for African designers.

    We talk about:

    Her thoughts on the future of Africa’s design, and how design can help the African continent to realign and re-navigate its future The motivation behind launching Africa by Design, and the impact has it had on shining the light on African design Celebrating and highlighting the diversity in African design How she discovered her love for textile design Being authentic in telling her story The need to dream bigger for ourselves The challenges she has faced in building her brand and learning to push boundaries with limited means The importance of sustainable design not designing for trends but designing for meaning

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode

    Africa by Design - https://www.africabydesign.org

    Nubuke Foundation Gallery - https://www.nubukefoundation.org

    Chelsea College of Art and Design - https://www.arts.ac.uk/colleges/chelsea-college-of-arts

    Milan Design Week + Salone Satellite - https://www.salonemilano.it/en/

    Marva Griffin - https://www.luminaire.com/illuminate/marva-griffin-mentor-to-young-designers/

    Dominique L’Olive - https://www.arts.ac.uk/study-at-ual/short-courses/stories/studying-with-dominique-lolive-in-the-studio-and-online-csm

    Adinkra Symbols - https://www.atelier55design.com/adinkra-symbols-writing-traditions-connecting-the-verbal-and-visual/

    Central St Martins - https://www.arts.ac.uk/colleges/central-saint-martins

    El Anatsui - https://www.atelier55design.com/art-ghana-el-anatsui-cascading-metal-wall-sculptures/

    Bernhardt Design - https://bernhardtdesign.com

    London Design Biennale - https://www.londondesignbiennale.com

    Alice Asafu-Adjaye - https://www.mustardarch.com/about

    Where you can go to find out more about AMWA Designs:

    www.amwadesigns.com

    @amwadesigns

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

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  • This is episode #3 of season 3 where I am joined by furniture and product designer Lani Adeoye.

    ABOUT LANI:

    Lani is an award-winning sculptural lighting and product designer and design strategist, and the founder of Studio Lani.

    We talk about:

    How her interest in design developed organically and going from a corporate non-creative role to studying design and founding her business Visiting design shows before she started to see what was out there and learn about design Having the confidence to put yourself out there Transitioning from working a full-time day job to freelancing to running her business full-time Moving to Nigeria to bring her closer to the artisans she works with Juggling the different roles that come with owning your own business How long it takes to bring a collection from concept to finished design Harnessing creative thinking to overcome challenges and find solutions that can bring her designs to life Showcasing heritage through contemporary lenses Staying true to what you believe, but being open to evolve Nurturing creativity in young children

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode:

    Interior Design Show Toronto

    International Contemporary Furniture Fair (ICFF)

    Aṣa

    NYCxDesign

    Wanted Design

    Architectural Digest

    Elle Decor International Women of Design

    Simon Sinek book Start With Why

    Where you can go to find out more about Studio Lani:

    www.studiolani.com

    @studiolani

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

    Continue the conversation, follow atelier 55 on:

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  • This is episode #2 of season 3 where I am joined by clay healer Andile Dyalvane.

    ABOUT ANDILE:

    Andile Dyalvane is the co-founder of the Imiso a high-end brand of bespoke, conversational, and collectibles ceramics.

    We talk about:

    How his interest in clay began How culture and heritage influences his design His thoughts on the acceptance of art as a career Using clay as a way of connecting with Mother Earth, with ancestry, and his heritage The responsibility bestowed on him by his elders of being chosen to bring back dignity to his community through his art The journey of setting up Imiso, and the challenges of having to develop business skills fast How residences have helped him grow and develop as an artist and helps with getting back to what matters Being a mentor to those following in his footsteps, and why having someone to look up to matters Developing or finding a design identity Dealing with self-doubt Knowing your purpose and accepting that not everyone will understand or like what he does, and that’s ok Following and embracing his creativity, which fuels his spiritual growth

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode

    Cape Craft and Design Institute

    Katherine Glenday

    Clay Adventures

    Ceramic Studio

    Nelson Mandela University of Technology

    The Old Biscuit Mill

    Design Network Africa

    Southern Guild

    Where you can go to find out more about Imiso:
    www.imiso.com

    Instagram: @imiso

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

    Continue the conversation, follow atelier 55 on:

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  • Welcome to episode 1 of the third season of Behind The Design. This season I bring you more great conversation and insight into the work of amazing creative talent from across Africa and in the diaspora.

    As excited as I am to be welcoming you to the season it was recorded against the backdrop of the biggest seismic shifts our world has faced in recent times. I am feeling the weight of a period of fear, turmoil, uncertainty, frustration, and just plain overwhelming tiredness. My guests also reflect this uncertainty. But through the current challenges, there is hope, and there is optimism.

    So I hope you will find this season inspiring, and I am looking forward to welcoming you to each episode.

    Tapiwa

    You can find the full show notes for all the episodes at:

    atelier | 55 - www.atelier55design.com

  • You are listening to Behind the Design episode #7 the Studio Lessons. Which brings us to the end of season 2. It has been another inspiring season, and I thank all my guests for taking the time to chat and give us a behind the scenes look into their design journeys. I’ve loved discovering their motivations and the challenges and rewards that come from doing what they do.

  • This is episode #6 where I am joined by sustainable design entrepreneur Achenyo Idachaba-Obaro.

    ABOUT ACHENYO:

    You are listening to episode number 6 of season 2. And joining me on the show is Achenyo Idachaba-Obaro. Achenyo is the founder of MitiMeth. An award-winning social enterprise based in Nigeria. Working with local communities MitiMeth takes water hyacinth, an evasive destructive weed, and upcycles it into personal and interior accessories.

    We talk about:

    Going from a corporate computer science career to starting a business the creative industry What drew her to consulting in the green space Being born and raised in the US and making the decision to move to Nigeria her country of heritage to start her business Why she chose to work with water hyacinth, and looking at how local solutions could be applied globally The process for harvesting and turning this weed into a material that she can work with The impact transforming water hyacinth s had on the local communities Mitimeth works with How she identified the communities she wanted to work with How she decides on what products to create How she generates brand awareness Being a Cartier Women’s Initiative finalist and the impact this has had on her business and her as a leader How she keeps challenging herself to grow and develop your business and craft?

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode

    United Nations Environment Programme - https://www.unenvironment.org

    The UN Global goals - https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/sustainable-development-goals/

    Cartier Women’s Initiative - https://www.cartierwomensinitiative.com/candidate/achenyo-idachaba

    Vital Voices and Pond's Fellowship - https://www.vitalvoices.org/what-we-do/signature-programs/vvlead/

    Where you can go to find out more about Achenyo and MitiMeth:

    https://www.mitimeth.com

    @mitimeth.ng - https://www.instagram.com/mitimeth.ng/

    https://www.facebook.com/MitiMeth-Handcrafted-Home-Decor-and-Personal-Accessories-183239771748672/

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

    Continue the conversation, follow atelier 55 on:

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  • This is episode #5 where I am joined by lighting and product designer Dounia Tamri-Loeper.

    ABOUT DOUNIA:

    You are listening to episode number 5 of season 2. And joining me on the show is Dounia Tamri-Loeper. Dounia is the designer and founder of Dounia Home. A lighting company that is based in the US and Morocco. Dounia Home is on a mission to modernise Moroccan design reimagining the traditional techniques and craftsmanship into sophisticated collections that have sustainability at their heart.

    We talk about:

    Taking decision to leave her job to start her own business Researching her idea and spending time in Morocco travelling the country and getting to know the different crafts from a a designer perspective Using her designer’s eye to modernise the old styles Leveraging trade shows to build her brand name, awareness and credibility The importance of knowing her audience and getting in front of them Managing a business between the US and Morocco, and why a process is key Producing in Morocco and working with artisan groups How government support has helped develop and grow her business Designing for sustainability and not trends Finding and attracting collaborations Looking to the future of design Being bold and not being afraid to reach out for opportunities What being in business has taught her about herself

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode

    Maison de l’artisan - http://www.maisonartisan.ma

    Elle Decor - https://www.elledecor.com

    House Beautiful - https://www.housebeautiful.com

    Handmade Contemporary Fair (HmC) - http://www.artlogic.co.za/fairs

    Aphrochic - https://www.aphrochic.com

    Where you can go to find out more about Dounia and Dounia Home:

    https://www.douniahome.com

    @douniahome - https://www.instagram.com/douniahome/

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

    Continue the conversation, follow atelier 55 on:

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  • This is episode #4 where I am joined by furniture and product designer Thabisa Mjo.

    ABOUT THABISA:

    Thabisa is the designer, behind Mash.T an award-winning Johannesburg based design studio that is contributing to the continuing evolution of a home-grown contemporary South African design aesthetic.

    We talk about:

    The reasons for working for herself The challenges is access to market Appreciating the value of social capital The importance of having systems in place to stop you working harder than is actually necessary Not letting failure stop her Being aware of the privilege of being able to have her own business and the responsibilities that come with this Breaking through the barrier of gatekeeping - The challenges of overcoming a system that is designed to keep people out How she did not come to design the traditional way Taking the initiative to go out there and ask for work, for the opportunities The importance of doing your research Having confidence, determination and self-belief Respecting the deep roots of generational knowhow and the people you work with Changing the way people think about African design

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode

    Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs - https://www.thoughtco.com/maslows-hierarchy-of-needs-4582571

    Sketchup - https://www.sketchup.com

    Oprah Magazine South Africa - now closed

    Estee Lauder South Africa - https://www.esteelauder.co.za

    Veuve Clicquot South Africa - https://www.veuveclicquot.com/en-gb

    Tracy Lynch - https://www.leelynch.co.za

    Nando’s Hot Young Designer - http://hotyoungdesigner.co.za

    Louise Mcann - http://thecontentstudio.co.za/

    Chandelle Lighting - http://www.chandelle-lighting.co.za

    Where you can go to find out more about Thabisa and Mash T:

    @mashtdesignstudio - https://www.instagram.com/mashtdesignstudio/?hl=en

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

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  • This is episode #3 where I am joined by furniture and product designer Audrey Forson.

    ABOUT AUDREY:

    Audrey is a furniture designer, and the managing director of Tekura, her family’s business in Ghana. Tekura was started by her parents and Audrey is continuing the legacy by taking the business to the next level.

    We talk about:

    Stepping in to take over the family business How interning at the business while still at school helped her to learn the different aspects of the business Leaning on the job as a self-taught creative and designer The stories Tekura is telling and how the business has a deep link to her heritage The importance of market awareness The production cycle and tailoring products for the different audiences Nurturing the next generation of designers by giving back and sharing her advice and experiences The importance of understanding the business side of design Why legacy matters, creating businesses that can be passed onto the next generations to each take forward

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode

    Cheick Diallo

    Hamed Ouattara - https://www.coroflot.com/hamedouattara

    Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology - Rural Arts - https://www.facebook.com/KNUSTksi/

    **NOTE: The audio has been edited but you will experience some background noise**

    Where you can go to find out more about Audrey and Tekura:

    https://www.designtekura.com

    @tekura_designs - https://www.instagram.com/tekura_designs/

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

    Behind the Design is brought to you by atelier 55

    Continue the conversation, follow atelier 55 on:

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  • This is episode #2 of season 2 where I am joined by fashion designer Lola Ukinamemen.

    ABOUT LOLA: Lola is the founder of the fashion and lifestyle brand, Agnes & Lola, a UK-based platform which pioneered the retail of African fashion to international audiences.

    We talk about:

    Spotting a gap in the market to retail African fashion How Agnes & Lola became a journey of discovery of self The naivety of starting out with passion but not doing the due diligence required to start a business Being unprepared for the visibility that comes with PR recognition Acknowledging when things were not working and knowing it was time to step away Experiencing the shame of stopping and feeling like she was letting everyone down Recognising what went wrong the first time round Appreciating the importance of family, in particular what she could have learned from her grandmother Choosing to revive Agnes & Lola Regaining her passion and sense of identity in the new version of Agnes & Lola

    Links and resources mentioned in this episode

    Chichia - https://www.notjustalabel.com/chichia-london

    CNN - https://edition.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/11/19/african.fashion.agnes.lola/index.html

    Shopify - https://www.shopify.co.uk

    Squarespace - https://www.squarespace.com

    Myleek Teele - https://mytaughtyou.com/podcast-page/

    Finding Paula -

    Where you can go to find out more about Agnes & Lola:
    https://www.agnesandlola.com

    @agnesamdlola - https://www.instagram.com/agnesandlola/

    Get the full show notes at: www.atelier55design.com/podcast

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