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With crazy lives and busy schedules, it's been a minute since we published an episode, but we are excited to release this roundtable on recent current events in the realm of clean sport. Hosts Kara Goucher, Shanna Burnette, and Chris McClung all join to provide life updates and discuss:
- Bizarre cheating scandals in chess and fishing
- Doping positive for Simona Halep (former tennis #1)
- Gold medal upgrade for former guest Lashinda Demus
- Recent Kenyan doping busts (including 2021 Boston champ and 3 pacemakers for Kipchoge's sub 2)
- News of a previous doping suspension for NYRR's new Chairwoman - Nnenna LynchListen in for our reactions to it all and for a few specific changes we would like to see on how doping positives are reported. We hope to be back to you periodically with similar roundtables in the ever-evolving world of doping and clean sport.
Note: Here is a link to an update on the Nnenna Lynch and NYRR story, including her statement which was released after this episode was recorded:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/12/sports/running-nnenna-lynch-nyrr.html
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Jenna Fesemyer was born with a birth defect that would cause doctors to amputate her left leg soon after she entered this world as one of a set of triplets. They told her parents that she would be slow to sit, crawl, and walk even after being fitted with a prosthetic leg before her second birthday.
Spurred on to compete with her siblings, she was the first do to everything which might have been perfect foreshadowing for her current career in sport. She now often stands in first place on top of podiums as a competitive wheelchair racer. She is a national champion, a Pan Am Games champion, a World Marathon Major podium finisher, and now a Paralympian in 3 different events - the 1500m, 5000m, and marathon.
In this episode with Jenna, she shares her journey along the way from her first wheelchair race as a sophomore in high school to living her dream in the Tokyo Paralympics last summer. Jenna also gives us insight into the clean sport culture in the Paralympic world, including out-of-competition testing protocols, the whereabouts filing system, and recent controversy involving new, carbon-fiber wheelchairs that could permanently change the sport.
Jenna is an absolute inspiration. She will be racing the Boston Marathon on April 18th, and we can't wait to cheer her on!
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Dominique Scott is a 2-Time Olympian, a 5-Time NCAA Champion, a South African champion and record holder, and the owner of two new, smoking-fast personal bests in the half marathon (67:32) and 10K (31:00).
Beyond the accolades, her energy and passion for the sport is contagious, and her journey to realize her Olympic dream in 2016 in Rio is absolutely inspirational. Kara and Chris dig into it all with her.
We are fortunate that Dominique believes in #cleansport, because she also went nearly 2.5 years without an out-of-competition drug test between the fall of 2019 and early March of this year, which included no out-of-competition testing immediately before competing at both the 5K and 10K at the Tokyo Olympics.
That, of course, is not her fault but does highlight the challenges of international drug testing and the window of opportunity for cheating that was created by the COVID-19 pandemic. This conversation also underscores the difficulties of staying motivated as an elite athlete knowing that the playing field is not level.
Listen and be a fan. Dominique's story is one to follow closely as she aspires to compete in both the Commonwealth Games and the World Championships this year.
Finally on a podcast note, we just surpassed 1 million podcast downloads last week which is a big milestone for us! We wanted to thank you all for listening and supporting this platform. Together, we are making a difference in the name of clean sport!
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She first tried out for the Olympics in softball but didn't make the team. Then she switched sports, and the rest is a story for the history and record books.
Now, she is a 4-time Olympian. She is a 5-time Olympic medalist and 8-time World Championship medalist. She is the most decorated Black Winter Olympian ever. She is the most decorated female bobsled Olympian ever.
She is the oldest US woman to win a Winter Olympic medal. She is the only woman to ever win two medals in bobsled at a single Olympic games. She is an advocate for female athletes and athletes of color. She is the mother to two-year-old Nico, and she is an inspiration to us all.
She is Elana Meyers Taylor, and we are so excited to welcome her to the show. We talk about her journey from softball to bobsled, from her first trip down the ice in 2007 to her triumphant results in Beijing at the most recent Olympic games. She tells us stories from the sled including her perspective on doping and racism in the sport.
Along the way, you see Elana as one of the toughest, most resilient, humble, caring, and inspiring athletes we've had the chance to interview. She doesn't know what's next for her yet, but no matter what we will be cheering for her and following along!
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We are BACK for a new season of Clean Sport Collective Podcast episodes, and we start this season just like we did the last one with a host round table with Kara, Shanna, and Chris.
We get personal updates from the crew and then talk about some of the big topics in recent months from the world of #cleansport including the Russian doping scandal in figure skating at the Winter Olympics, the confirmed lifetime ban for Alberto Salazar via SafeSport, a recent 10 year ban for Blessing Okagbare in Track and Field, and why Major League Baseball isn’t currently testing for steroids.
Of course, we love to finish on a positive note, and Kara tells us at the end why we should still have hope as fans in the face of these issues.
This episode was recorded prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, making some of these discussions seem trivial in context. We also want to say that we stand with the people of the Ukraine. Our hearts are broken and go out to them during this time. We denounce the Russian invasion and fully support the moves by governing bodies in sport to ban Russia from international competition. #saveUkraine
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Nathan Martin is the fastest US-born black man to ever cover 26.2 miles. He ran 2:11:05 at the Marathon Project in 2020 to earn that title with a new personal best. He also finished 3rd American and 8th overall at the recent NYC Marathon, but based on the TV coverage, you would have barely known he was in the race.
Fortunately in this interview, we get the play-by-play on his in-race back and forth with Ben True over the final miles. It is a riveting firsthand account, and we are proud to give Nathan the platform he deserves to share it.
Nathan, however, is used to not being in the spotlight. He's been diligently working to be a better runner in his home state of Michigan since discovering his talent in middle school. In high school, he focused on and was state finalist in the one mile race before being encouraged to move up in distance by his college (and current coach) Dante Ottolini.
In college, he capped his senior year by winning NAIA national titles in the 10K and marathon (yes, marathon!), all in a span of 36 hours. That final college race kickstarted a post-collegiate marathon career that has now included two Olympic Marathon Trials, top finishes at US Marathon Championships, the big PR at the Marathon Project, and now a top 10 result at a World Major.
Nathan and his coach believe that making a US team at the World Championships or Olympics is a possibility, even as he splits his time coaching high school level athletes himself.
In his own words, we learn where Nathan gets his work ethic and his roll-with-the-punches attitude, along with the values he learned from his coaches and parents along the way. We discover the source of his integrity, his perspective on clean sport, and the lessons he hopes to pass onto the kids he now coaches.
Nathan subtly drops truth bombs throughout this episode, and we couldn't be more honored to share his story with you.
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Ryan Montgomery and Zach Bitter are no strangers to doing really hard things over long distances. Zach holds the world records for both the 100-mile distance by time and for distance run over 12 hours at 104.88 miles. Ryan just finished second at the Javelina 100, earning a golden ticket for the Western States 100, and he earned a spot on Team USA for the 24-Hour World Championships with a 154.71-mile performance over 24 hours last December.
Together, they join us for our most in-depth conversation to date on the clean sport culture in the trail/ultra world. We start with a story from Ryan on an innocent visit to the doctor that could have inadvertently resulted in him committing a doping violation.
From there, we talk about the need for more education and openness on the topic of clean sport in the trail/ultra community. We discuss drug testing in the sport including Ryan and Zach's history with it (or lack thereof). We cover strict liability, IVs, marijuana/THC use in ultras, and the challenges of enforcing clean sport culture in this corner of the competitive running world without a governing body.
Finally, we discuss the roles of various stakeholders to build and sustain the clean sport culture in trail/ultras including athletes, events, brands, and fans. We asked Ryan and Zach the hard questions, and just like in big races, they didn't back down. Thank you to both of them for their willingness to dig deep.
We also owe a special thanks again to Altra Running for hosting us in their booth at The Running Event, for supporting these two amazing athletes, and for being a brand that cares about clean sport.
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"The biggest thing that I just want to stop feeling, that I continue to feel, is the time that I spent in my career being fake." - Alysia Montaño.
Alysia has joined us on 2 episodes already so you know her story well. She is a 7-time US Champion. She is an Olympian, and she has two bronze medals from the World Championships that were stolen by dopers and eventually awarded to her many years later.
You may not know, however, that she is still in an ongoing battle more than 11 years later to recover $60,000 in prize money that was also stolen from her at those two events. For Alysia, it's not about the money. It's the principle that matters, and she is challenging World Athletics, the IOC, the USOPC, and USADA on this issue to set a new precedent for future athletes who might end up in the same situation.
She gives us the play-by-play on that challenge while also catching us up on the latest in her life with 3 kids, her first Spartan obstacle course race, and the important work of her non-profit &Mother.
This is a tough conversation at times, but in the end, we do talk about hope and where she goes to find it. Thank you to Alysia for never shying away from the tough issues and for her commitment to leaving the sport better than she found it.
Also, special thanks to Alysia's sponsor Altra Running, signer of the Clean Sport Collective brand pledge, for hosting us in their booth for this recording during The Running Event in Austin, TX last week.
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"You don't quit. You don't look behind you, and you don't cheat." - Molly Seidel, discussing values she learned from her mom.
We can't think of a better guest for our 100th episode than Molly Seidel. To the world, she might be the new face of American marathoning, but privately she is the same person who grew up in a small town in Wisconsin, doesn't take herself too seriously, and is the fiercest of competitors once on a start line.
From Foot Locker champion to NCAA champion to Olympic Bronze Medalist, the journey has not been a linear one for her. In fact, she almost quit the sport multiple times before finding her love for it again in late 2019. In this episode, we learn about it all.
This episode also represents a passing of the torch as Kara discusses Molly breaking her American course record in New York. You get to be a fly on the wall as the two of them fan-girl each other.
Come for that, stay for the fun details about Molly's journey including her running heroes in high school, where and when she decided to race the Olympic Trials, the source of her ferocious nature in races, and near the end, the advice she would now give to the younger Molly who once wrote down her dream to earn an Olympic medal.
We love Molly for her integrity and for her fun-loving nature. We need more of both in our sport so we know the future of American marathoning is in very good hands.
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Annie Frisbie had a dream day at the NYC Marathon. She finished as the 3rd American and 7th overall in her debut marathon, running two half marathon PRs en route to the finish line in Central Park. Her finishing time gave her the 4th fastest marathon debut ever by an American.
As an unsponsored athlete, she ran in a mix of apparel and footwear from different brands, all while taking vacation from her day job as a graphic designer for a healthcare start-up. Though unsponsored, she is not unsupported as she runs with Minnesota Distance Elite in Minneapolis.
At 24, Annie Frisbie seems to just be getting started as an elite-level runner. She won a state title in cross country in high school, is an NCAA All-American, and is now getting the opportunity to show her potential and passion for road racing.
In this episode, we cover her childhood growing up in River Falls, Wisconsin where her entrepreneurial parents showed her the importance of hard work. We discuss her patient progression in the sport from high school to Iowa State to joining Minnesota Distance Elite. We discuss her love for and early success on the roads and why she chose to move up to the marathon so soon.
Then of course, we get the play-by-play on her amazing marathon debut in NYC including how she celebrated afterward. Finally, we talk about her perspective on clean sport including the fact that she's never been tested out of competition as a pro.
Annie's perspective on our sport is pure and refreshing, and we can't wait to see where it takes her next!
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In 2016, Noah Droddy finished dead last in the US 10K Track Trials as an unsponsored athlete who was relatively new to the pro ranks.
In 2021, Noah Droddy is now the 9th fastest US marathoner of all-time, and to the surprise of many, is again unsponsored.
On the US top 10 list, he's listed with big names like Ryan Hall, Dathan Ritzenhein, and Meb Keflezighi, and yet Noah works full-time at SOS Hydration to make ends meet amidst a professional running world that doesn't always make sense. Sponsored or not, he seems happy, and he's ready to continue chasing his dreams on the road at the NYC Marathon on November 7th.
Sponsored or not, Noah is also unabashedly himself and not afraid to tell it like it is. In this episode, he shares all about his journey from underdog runner in high school in Indiana and at Depauw University to one of the very fastest American marathoners of all-time. He speaks truth about the ups and downs in his story and then isn't afraid to name names on the topics of doping and clean sport. (Yes, he went there.)
We are big fans of Noah and know you will be too. He tells us that he has a big announcement coming on November 4th, and we hope that means a new sponsor sees what we see too!
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"There's value in showing up when you're not at your best and seeing what you can do. Who are you when it's rough?" - Des Linden.
You will have to listen until the very end to hear this very introspective life advice from Des. She showed up in Boston two weeks ago when not at her best. She got it done anyway and is now prepping for the NYC Marathon in just under two weeks.
In this episode, we catch up with Des on everything happening in her life from February 2020 onward including her 4th place finish at the Marathon Trials, life during the pandemic, Des-tober, the 50K world record, her announcing career, and of course, her prep for getting back to the marathon distance this fall.
Along the way, we learn about overcoming failure, when to open "the good stuff," the power of tequila, her future in ultras, and whether or not she has any FOMO for Shalane's Project Eclipse. Plus, we get her clear perspective on the Shelby Houlihan case from this summer and the impact it may or may not have had on how she monitors what goes into her body.
It's always great to catch up with Des. She is an inspiration in running and in life, and we can't wait to see what's next for her in NYC and beyond.
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Good journalism is an important part of promoting a sport, and it’s also an important part of bringing the dark sides into the light. Fortunately, we have good journalists like Erin Strout who help us do both for the sport of running.
Erin’s interest in writing began by interviewing her family at the Thanksgiving table which ultimately led to majoring in journalism at Penn State. After that, she did stints covering business in NYC and higher education in DC before melding her passion for running with her career. Since then, she has worked with Running Times, Runner’s World, and now Women’s Running where she is a writer and digital editor.
In this episode, we chat with Erin about her parallel journeys as an amateur athlete and a journalist before digging into the role of journalism in the areas of doping and clean sport. She tells us about pushback she received covering the Shelby Houlihan case and gives us her ideas for uncovering the dark sides of the sport if she had unlimited time, money, and resources.
Erin is a great writer and storyteller. When she writes we read it, and when she speaks, we listen. We encourage you to do the same.
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We can't think of a better way to finish the summer of Kate Grace than with a podcast with Kate Grace! Yes, she's an Olympian, US Champion, and now multiple-time Diamond League winner, but her career is loaded with ups and downs from injuries to team and sponsor changes and to disappointment on the track. Through it all, she remains the same, balanced human who operates with high integrity and who values family above it all. For those reasons alone, we know you will love getting to know Kate in this episode.
In addition, we know you will be interested to learn from Kate about the practical reality of clean sport in her daily life from whereabouts filings and early morning drug tests to avoiding contaminated food or supplements. Plus, she provides her perspective on the Shelby Houlihan case as a former teammate.
In the end, she tells about what's next for her as she dreams big for the next Olympic cycle. We have a good feeling that there will be more summers of Kate Grace around the corner, and we can't wait to cheer her on for all of them!
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We last talked to Sara Hall in February of 2020 for episode #37, just before she had a disappointing DNF at the Olympic Marathon Trials shortly after. Then, the world shut down and her plan to cope by diving straight into a new training cycle fell apart.
She responded like a champion by pivoting and adjusting to the rapidly changing circumstances to make the most of it. What followed were the best results of her career including a half marathon PR, 2nd place in the London Marathon, a win at the Marathon Project in the 2nd fastest time ever by an American (2:20:32), and 6th place in the 10,000m at the US Track Trials in Eugene.
Of course, it wasn't easy as she faced a host of ups and downs along the way including her own case of COVID-19 earlier this year. We talk to Sara about the details and emotions of it all from dealing with disappointment in Atlanta to the joy and relief of her amazing kick finish in London. Plus, she tells us about how recent doping cases affect her day-to-day life in very real ways.
Sara is now prepping to go after Deena Kastor's American record in Chicago on October 10th, but as she shares in the interview, she is far from done regardless of how it goes. Join us in cheering her on as she goes for the record books and beyond!
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Courtney Dauwalter is already one of the greatest ultra runners of all-time, and she's far from finished. She recently won her second Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc in course record time. She's won the Western States 100, the Tahoe 200, the Moab 240, and the US edition of Big's Backyard Ultra, finishing with 283.3 miles completed over nearly 57 hours. It seems that she gets better as the races get longer and harder.
Did you know that she grew up in Minnesota where she got her start in sport in gymnastics, soccer and floor hockey? Or, that she was a state cross-country skiing champion in high school and went on to compete collegiately as a cross-country ski racer at the University of Denver? And, did you know that she did not finish her first 100 mile race, which stoked her fire to run another one (and another)?
Kara and Shanna host this episode to talk with Courtney about it all, including her perspective on clean sport. You will fall in love with her kind, infectious energy and maybe, just maybe, want to add an ultra distance race to your bucket list. Listen at your own risk!
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It was a busy summer for your Clean Sport Collective hosts, but we are excited to be back to you with new content, starting this week with a host roundtable.
In this episode, we give you quick updates on the lives of Kara, Shanna, and Chris and then dive right into the deep end to discuss the biggest cases of the summer. We cover the Alberto Salazar SafeSport ban, the Sha'Carri Richardson and Brianna McNeal cases, and of course, our perspectives on the Shelby Houlihan decision.
This episode is just us calling it how we see it, and we look forward to the great debate to follow.
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We are excited to present this conversation with new Olympian Cory McGee! She earned a spot in Tokyo with a 2nd place finish in the 1500m at the Olympic Trials earlier this week, and in this episode, she joins us to tell us all about it.
Cory has been running at a high level for a very long time. She was a US junior champion in 2011 then went on to become a 10-time All-American at the University of Florida. In the pro ranks, she's been working diligently toward this breakthrough moment for a really long time. In this discussion, she talks about the importance of her move to Team Boss and the lessons she's learned from teammates Emma Coburn, Aisha Praught-Leer, Kate Grace, Dom Scott, and Laura Thweatt.
She then takes us through the race from her pre-race expectations and strategy to the glorious final 100m when she willed her body to that 2nd place finish. Cory just loves to run and knowing her integrity and her stance on clean sport makes it so easy to cheer loudly for her both now and in Tokyo later this summer!
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Zola Budd Pieterse has every reason in the world to hate the sport of track and field, but she doesn't. Instead, she gives back to it in ways that will help today's young stars experience it in a much more positive way than she did. It has not, however, been an easy journey.
Zola grew up on a farm in South Africa before suddenly being thrust on the world stage at the age of 17 when she ran a world record time in the 5000m. That time would not be ratified by the IAAF because it did not recognize competitions in her home country due to apartheid policies there. Thus to compete internationally, she was sent to Great Britain to claim UK citizenship since her grandfather was British.
This move was met with great controversy as many meet organizers and fans protested her naturalization, making life difficult for Zola upon her arrival. In spite of the less-than-warm welcome, Zola still ran extremely well, claiming the official 5000m world record and earning a spot in the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles.
In the final in LA, she was involved in a collision with Mary Decker Slaney that sent Mary to the ground and left Zola reeling from the boos that then filled the Olympic stadium, directed toward her even though the contact was incidental. Even with this disappointment, Zola went on to claim more European records, win the World Cross Country Championship in back to back years, and make another Olympic team in 1992.
In this episode, Zola joins Shanna and Kara to talk about it all including growing up as a running prodigy, how she dealt with the intensity of the negative spotlight often on her, and why she competed barefoot and always clean in the steroid era of the 1980s and EPO era of the early 1990s.
Zola then shares how she reclaimed her love for the sport as her own while also coaching the next generation of runners in her current home city of Conway, South Carolina. Zola is an absolute legend in our sport, and we are so honored to share her story.
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What price would you be willing to pay for telling the truth? What if you knew it would cost you your home, your livelihood, your security, and nearly your country? Would you still speak up? Would you still do the right thing?
Whether they know it at the time or not, that is the choice often faced by what the world calls "whistleblowers." We call them truth-tellers, and Renee Anne Shirley ("Anne") is one of those truth-telling heroes. In August of 2013, she spoke out via a Sport Illustrated editorial about the lack of testing being done by the Jamaica Anti-Doping Commission (JADCO) in and around the 2012 Olympics in London. That editorial would change her life forever.
In this episode, Kara and Chris talk to Anne about her story including her background in sport growing up in Jamaica and the eventual combination of serendipity and strong will that put her in position to build the anti-doping infrastructure in Jamaica. She details the behind-the-scenes political gamesmanship that sits behind the anti-doping apparatus worldwide and how she maneuvered her way into the power structure before eventually exposing its flaws.
Anne discusses why the global governance structure needs to be re-built from the ground up while still giving us hope for a better future. In addition, she tells us what we can do as fans to make a difference for clean sport wherever we are. Anne is one of the clearest and most objective speakers on any issue related to clean sport, and we are excited to share her story and her insight.
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