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Hakan Şükür is Turkey’s greatest ever footballer, highest goalscorer, and still the man who holds the record for scoring the fastest goal in a World Cup after just 11 seconds in 2002. But for the last nine years, he’s been living in self-imposed exile in the US, moonlighting as an Uber driver, and having his legacy wiped from the records of Turkish football history. Turkey’s ruling AKP party has branded him a “terrorist”, and even saying his name on TV can get you the sack, as one commentator found out during the Qatar World Cup.
This is the story of a footballing hero who has suffered a humbling fall caused by politics, upheaval and a failed coup in Turkey. Şükür, whose father was born in Bosnia and his mother in North Macedonia, helped Turkey finish third in the 2002 World Cup and led his Galatasaray team to a UEFA Cup triumph in 2000 – the first European trophy won by a Turkish domestic side and the high watermark of Turkish football this century. Known as the “Bull of the Bosphorus” for his goal-scoring instincts, Şükür combined his football career with membership of Turkey’s Hizmet movement, a religious organisation led by Islamic scholar, Fethullah Gulen, which has been dubbed as part of Turkey’s “deep state”. The movement recruited lawyers, civil servants, politicians and footballers – and were active in the Galatasaray changing room in the 2000s, says author and anthropologist John McManus.
During the 90s and 2000s, Şükür is a Turkish superstar, and Gulen is allied with Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the leader of the conservative AKP party, who became prime minister in 2003 and the country’s current president. After retiring from football in 2007, Şükür became a member of parliament for Erdogan’s party while retaining his Gulen affiliations, but claims he was always a reluctant politician. In 2013, Gulen and Erdogan have a spectacular fall-out and Şükür, a national hero, is caught in the middle of an internecine struggle for power and influence in Turkey. In 2015, he flees to the US after being prosecuted over a tweet which “insults the president”. Şükür would never return to his homeland.
The episode charts the spectacular cancellation of a footballing icon whose political allegiances put him on the wrong side of an increasingly authoritarian government. In telling his story, Simon and Mehreen attempt to uncancel Hakan Şükür.
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to the episode on Hakan Şükür
01:23 - Simon's first impression of watching Şükür play for Turkey
02:00 - Şükür's peak at the 2002 World Cup
04:25 - Şükür's background and early career
06:25 - The "Welcome to Hell" match between Galatasaray and Manchester United
11:23 - Şükür's performance at the 2002 World Cup, including scoring the fastest ever World Cup goal
14:04 - Explanation of the Gulen movement and Şükür's involvement
23:54 - How Şükür likely got recruited into the Gulen movement
27:52 - Şükür's career after retirement and move into politics
31:04 - Breakdown of Şükür's relationship with Erdogan starting in 2013
34:15 - The failed 2016 coup attempt and Şükür being branded a terrorist
38:20 - Şükür living in exile in the US and working jobs like an Uber driver
41:40 - Şükür continues to criticise Erdogan from exile despite threats
44:36 - Discussion on whether Şükür can ever return to Turkey
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Who is Arne Slot? Simon Kuper, who grew up in the Netherlands and remains a Dutch football obsessive, reveals all about the new Liverpool manager. Join Heroes & Humans for our first ever emergency episode to hear about the new Klopp mini-me.
The Dutchman from a family of schoolteachers is Klopp without the charisma and the teeth visible from outer space. He’s even practically German (well, ten minutes’ drive from the border). We have other comparisons: Slot’s playing career as the slowest Dutch midfielder since Louis van Gaal. And Simon discusses Slot’s similarities and differences with the dreaded Erik ten Hag, and why he’ll probably do better than poor Ten Hag has done at Manchester United. But we also draw a more encouraging parallel: why Slot-for-Klopp looks a lot like Bob Paisley replacing Bill Shankly.
Above all, listeners get a free lesson in how to pronounce Slot’s name.
Timestamps:
00:02 - Introduction to the podcast "Heroes and Humans of Football"
00:48 - Simon expresses excitement about a Dutch manager being hired at Liverpool
01:04 - Discussion about pronouncing Arne Slot's name correctly
02:06 - Details on Liverpool potentially paying £10 million to secure Slot from Feyenoord
03:40 - Comparison of Slot to Erik ten Hag and Bob Paisley
06:43 - Slot's background: growing up in a small village near the German border
09:06 - The potential influence of Billy Beane (Moneyball) in Slot's hiring at Liverpool
12:28 - Slot's coaching style and philosophy, similar to those of Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp
16:43 - How Slot got Feyenoord to buy into and execute his high-pressing system
18:21 - Funny anecdote about Slot laughing at Diego Simeone after beating Atlético Madrid
19:23 - Mehreen's take on Slot's appearance and communication style
21:03 - Why Slot may succeed at Liverpool, where Ten Hag struggled at Manchester United
23:35 - Slot's reliance on wingers and fullbacks suits Liverpool's current squad
25:19 - Feyenoord's limited budget that Slot had to work with
26:21 - Potential weakness of Slot being vain/having high self-esteem
27:43 - Caution about difficulty of replacing a legend like Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool
28:31 - What profession Slot would have if not football (school teacher ... again)
29:09 - Whether they would enjoy spending an evening with Slot
30:24 - Slot has to try to beat his hero Pep Guardiola at Manchester City
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From innovator to "specialist in failure," this riveting episode charts Arsène Wenger's steep fall at Arsenal. His pioneering vision had remade English football, introducing new tactics, diets, and a cosmopolitan ethos that redefined excellence. The unbeaten "Invincibles" season cemented his legend, but also marked the start of a tragic decline.
As richer clubs co-opted Wenger's methods, his stubborn penny-pinching while Arsenal's debt piled up from their new Emirates stadium ended up creating fan toxicity. The famous (and hilarious) battle of "Pizzagate" at Old Trafford in 2004 signalled the start of the unravelling.
With raw insight on Wenger himself, the episode explores the personal costs of his uncompromising obsession, which alienated even die-hard fans. From glorious highs battling Sir Alex Ferguson to humiliating lows like a 6-0 loss on his 1000th game, it traces Wenger's descent from manager to "specialist in failure" caricature. And yet all through it, he loved his job at Arsenal.
This unsparing portrait captures the complexity of a man who remade the modern game yet stubbornly clung to his principles amid changing circumstances. The biggest victim was Wenger himself. His rise, fall, and self-reckoning are the story of a man who ended up feeling he had devoted too much of his life to football.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction to Arsene Wenger and framing his rise and fall
3:00 - Wenger's meteoric rise, pioneering approach and creation of the "Invincibles"
9:00- The "Pizzagate" incident at Old Trafford in 2004 signals the start of Wenger's decline
14:30 - Wenger's aversion to spending and friction with new free-spending owners like Abramovich
19:00 - Poor decisions like selling Van Persie as criticisms mount
23:00 - The Emirates Stadium move precipitating years of austerity and player sales
28:30 - Wenger becoming alienated from fans, a "specialist in failure" meme
33:00 - The lingering pain of the 2006 Champions League final loss
38:00 - How Wenger coped by doubling down on his autonomy as results worsened
43:00 - Rise of fan channels like AFTV amplifying "Wenger Out" toxicity
48:30 - Wenger's forced 2018 exit after protracted decline
53:00 - His struggle adapting to civilian life and reflections on sacrificing family
58:00 - Reassessing Wenger's complicated legacy as a transformative pioneer
1:03:00 - Looking ahead - could Arsenal find a role for him?
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From his humble beginnings in an Alsatian village to his revolutionary tenure at Arsenal from 1996 to 2004, Wenger's journey is a testament to his innovative spirit and enduring influence on English football. Exploring Arsène Wenger's meteoric rise at Arsenal, this first episode of a two-part series delves into the origins and golden years of one of the Premier League's most unforgettable managers.Starting in Duttlenheim, where Wenger grew up in the post-WWII era, his early experiences in a village transitioning back to French control from Germany set the stage for his European outlook and multilingual skills. His transition from a modest playing career to groundbreaking coaching stints across Europe, including a life-changing period in Japan, laid the groundwork for his Arsenal legacy.With three Premier League titles and a remarkable undefeated season with "The Invincibles" in 2003-04, Wenger's Arsenal redefined footballing excellence. His emphasis on a cosmopolitan approach, meticulous attention to player development, and a pioneering embrace of sports science and dietary regimens marked a departure from traditional English practices.When Simon and Mehreen reflect on Wenger's journey, a picture emerges of a man whose dedication to football verged on obsession, often at personal cost. His love for the game and commitment to innovation left an indelible mark on Arsenal and the Premier League. His early triumphs remind us of the profound impact one individual can have on a sport, a club, and its global fanbase. Wenger's story is a blend of ambition, innovation, and the relentless pursuit of excellence—qualities that made him great and defined an era of football that continues to inspire and resonate.Timestamps:00:00 Excitement for Wenger, his legacy, and fan culture.04:22 The French manager becomes known for his unstylish appearance.08:20 Father's health recovered after World War 2.11:50 University of Strasbourg graduate, economist, Arsenal manager.12:52 Fascinated by Germany, no war hatred. Coaching.17:57 Wenger, an economist, uses data to analyse football performance.21:49 Wenger arrives at a small, hidden stadium. Different.22:19 Club guest talks to woman about crucial figure.27:41 England offers the manager a job; Wenger turns it down.30:45 Players arrived at training under the influence of alcohol.35:24 Wenger identifies talented players, signs them.37:14 Wenger's scouting approach and successful player development.40:39 The manager uses data to guide player substitutions.42:53 Drogba's "impressive" performance against Arsenal for Chelsea.45:34 Arsenal's confident old city, winning medals profusely.49:09 Wenger goes from admired to joke.Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere.InstagramTikTokFacebookXVisit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com
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Mohamed Salah is the greatest player to emerge from a football-mad part of the world that has rarely produced elite talent on the level of the clinical, curly-haired winger: the Arab world.
Born in a humble town in Egypt, the Arab world’s most populous country, Salah is an icon in Africa and the Middle East and ranks among the greatest Muslim athletes of the modern era. The 31 year-old’s breakthrough in European football may never have happened were it not for the tragic breakdown of law and order in Egypt in the aftermath of the Arab Spring in 2011. A young Salah had his dream of playing for one of Egypt's big clubs taken away from him following the Port Said stadium disaster, one of the deadliest episodes of football violence in the 21st century.
He burst onto the scene in European football with Swiss side Basel, putting in man of the match performances against Chelsea in successive cup competitions, scoring three times against the Blues who went on to sign him at the age of 22. Liverpool missed out on his signature because they didn’t think he was worth his £11 million transfer fee.
Salah suffered his worst season as a professional under totemic Chelsea coach Jose Mourinho, who loaned him off after a year, in one of the worst transfer decisions ever made by the club. After a stint in Serie A, Salah returned to England with a vengeance with Liverpool in 2017 and has become an Anfield legend, winning the Premier League and Champions League under Jurgen Klopp.
Simon and Mehreen tell the story of a footballer whose impact goes far beyond Liverpool FC or football. He’s probably the only sportsman who has been empirically proven to have helped reduce racism against Muslims in the UK, with his quiet piety, prostrating goal celebrations and boundless dedication to his craft.
Salah is also a source of rare hope for a generation of young Egyptians whose freedoms and aspirations were brutally crushed by Egypt’s military dictator after the extinguishing of the Arab Spring. Liverpool’s Egyptian King is a beacon for millions who will never get the chance to fulfil their dreams in the autocratic, repressive state.
Timestamps:
00:00 Salah stands out as unique Arab footballer.
04:59 Mohammed Salah overcomes obstacles to pursue football.
06:48 Salah emerges as rising football star in Egypt.
09:48 Port Said Massacre led to end of Egyptian revolution.
15:33 Limited play, occasional impact, inconsistent performance.
18:08 Salah's successful transfers lead to record deal.
21:32 Salah's uncertain start, followed by remarkable success.
24:19 Ramos highlights need to eliminate key player.
27:33 Egypt's football journey, Mohamed Salah's pressure, World Cup politics.
30:15 Salah's impact on Liverpool's success and growth.
34:49 Muslim soccer player connects with fans, transcends stereotypes.
36:07 Salah's influence on a Liverpool fan's transformation.
40:52 Salah may end career in Arab world.
42:41 Salah's success is rare amidst Arab adversity.
46:15 Salah's existence sparks debates and political expectations.
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Born in the Catalan village of Santpedor, Pep's early life was steeped in the resurgence of Catalan identity post-Franco. His childhood, marked by the isolation & cultural defiance of his village, was a prelude to a career that would challenge and redefine football norms.At 14, Pep left the village for the Masia, Barcelona's famed academy, embedding himself in a milieu far removed from his humble beginnings. It was here, in the fertile grounds of Barça, that Pep's footballing philosophy began to develop, nurtured by the influence of Johan Cruyff, the architect of total football. Cruyff saw in Pep not just a player but a kindred spirit, a conduit for his revolutionary ideas on the pitch.Pep's playing career at Barcelona manifested his cerebral approach to the game. He was slow and couldn’t tackle, but his understanding of space, movement, and tactical coherence made him indispensable. Yet, it was off the field, in conversations & debates with Cruyff, where Pep's future as a coach was being forged. Their shared vision for football's possibilities became the foundation of Pep's approach to management.Guardiola's transition to coaching was as unexpected as it was meteoric. Chosen to lead Barcelona at just 37, he embodied the club's desire for a Catalan at the helm, a move that might seem narrow-minded to outsiders but was very meaningful to those within the close-knit Barcelona family. His first season, culminating in a treble, was a vindication of the club's faith in him, marking the birth of tiki-taka football—a mesmerising blend of precision, fluidity, & relentless pressing.Pep's journey had its challenges. His relationship with Mourinho, once marked by mutual admiration, evolved into a rivalry that mirrored their contrasting football philosophies. Meanwhile, Pep's commitment to Catalan independence, juxtaposed with his affiliations with Qatar & the UAE, painted a complex picture of a man navigating the intersecting realms of politics, identity, and sport.Guardiola's coaching at Bayern Munich & Manchester City further underscored his insatiable quest for progress. At City, in particular, has been characterised by a relentless pursuit of perfection, a deep understanding of individual player needs, & an unwavering commitment to attacking football. Yet, it is his ability to continuously evolve & adapt his tactics that has cemented his status as one of football's greatest minds.Pep Guardiola's legacy is not merely a collection of trophies but a testament to the power of ideas in shaping the beautiful game. His story is a celebration of intellectual curiosity, tactical innovation, & the enduring impact of a coach who, despite reaching the zenith of football management, remains a student of the game.Timestamps:00:00 Pep Guardiola's legacy.09:51 Despite his limitations, Cruyff saw potential in a young Pep Guardiola and even changed his position to central defence, despite his lack of speed and defensive abilities.25:19 Barcelona interviews Guardiola but prefers Mourinho due to set criteria.26:36 Pep Guardiola becomes Barcelona's head coach unexpectedly.35:38 Pep guides Messi and recommends he become a false nine.45:22 Mourinho and Pep have conflicting coaching styles during their time at Madrid and Barca.48:40 Pep resigns, takes sabbatical, Tito steps up.53:47 Pep coaches kids soccer & Nathan Redmond during games, showing non-partisan sportsmanship.59:57 Evolution of management; Foden challenges Pep, culture change in football.01:09:56 Catalan movement, Pep criticised for lack of consistency.01:13:22 Guest, John Carlin, met Pep Guardiola in New York, became good friends. Dined together, mutual close friends, empathises with him.01:20:09 Football evolution and shift in the game has been largely driven by Pep's influence, with teams adopting a fast-paced, pressing style of play.Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere.InstagramTikTokFacebookXVisit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com
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Roman Abramovich's story unfolds with the complexity of a man who came from Russia to reshape Premier League football. Starting life in a nondescript communist town, orphaned and adopted within an anti-Semitic Soviet Union, Abramovich's acute sensitivity to others' desires propelled him from selling rubber ducks to amassing a fortune amid the chaos of post-Soviet privatisation.
His acquisition of Chelsea FC in 2003 marked a pivotal moment, introducing unprecedented investment into the sport, but also igniting debates around sports washing and the ethical dimensions of football ownership.
Abramovich started at Chelsea painfully aware of his big handicap: he knew no more about football than the average fan. So he displayed another secret of his success: he is a good listener. Despite being the master of all he surveyed at an historically mediocre club, initially he barely opened his mouth.
Under Abramovich, Chelsea claimed 19 trophies in 19 years, but underlying his tenure was a mysterious relationship with Putin and sanctions following geopolitical tensions.
After his fall from grace and forced sale of Chelsea amidst accusations and personal risks, including poisoning, Abramovich's legacy in football remains divisive. Admirers cite his contributions to the club and community. For Mehreen, as a Chelsea fan, there is a part of her that still adores him even in 2024, when it’s not PC to say that, while acknowledging the darker aspects of his oligarchy and influence.
His story is a testament to the intricate dance of power, identity, and the indelible mark one man can leave on a beloved sport.
Timestamps:
00:00 Abramovich: From unknown to controversial football tycoon.
10:03 Canadian deputy PM Chryssia Freeland's book discusses Russian oligarchs, including Abramovich and Berezovsky. It mentions their deals and legal battles, with a spoiler about Berezovsky's fate.
10:40 A select few men gain immense wealth and political power in Yeltsin's Russia, controlling the country's economy and influencing political decisions through ownership of natural resources, media, and political influence.
20:39 Abramovich celebrates buying Chelsea with Evian water.
23:06 Various theories on Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea FC, including Putin's involvement and connections among oligarchs and media magnates in Moscow.
29:56 Learning how to own a football club. Exploring Europe, attending 3 games per day.
36:13 Abramovich values loyalty and shows it lavishly.
40:51 Putin suggests recruiting Abramovich for World Cup bid.
46:13 UK report links oligarch to Kremlin and Putin.
47:53 Abramovich's political and business manoeuvres regarding Chelsea, including potential sanctions and the sale of the club in light of the war.
52:59 Abramovich supports Jewish causes, including the Elad group, but faces criticism for promoting settler tourism.
01:00:01 Possible involvement in geopolitical hotspots, rehabilitation potential
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Tracing Kylian Mbappé’s path from the suburbs of Paris to the pinnacle of global football. With two decades of living in Paris, Simon brings an insider's perspective to Mbappé's early life, highlighting the city's rich football culture that has nurtured talents like Pogba, Kanté, and Mahrez.
The Paris region is the biggest talent pool in global football, ahead of Buenos Aires. To understand the essence of Mbappé, it is necessary to understand the role of Parisian banlieues and artificial fields, which produce an unprecedented number of football stars. Yet, understanding the household that shaped his path is perhaps even more crucial.
In the heart of Bondy, Mbappé's upbringing unfolds—a tale of ambition, community, and family. His parents, Wilfrid and Fayza, pillars of their community, guided their son with a blend of strict education and football mentorship. From his father's coaching at AS Bondy, to listening to dressing-room tactical talks from age four, Mbappé's childhood was steeped in football.
Mbappé encountered broader social and political challenges, growing up as a black-Arab kid in the suburbs, against a backdrop of rising far-right sentiment in France. His early awareness of race and identity issues, alongside his family's careful navigation of fame and society’s expectations, paints a portrait of resilience and conscious ambition.
As Mbappé's talent becomes undeniable, every club wants to sign the kid. The family makes the very canny choice that he’ll start his career at Monaco, where there’s a fast track to the first team, and the club also employs teachers who can school him for the Baccalauréat, the French equivalent of A-levels. Doing ‘le bac’ is non-negotiable for his parents.
From his developmental years at Monaco to his record-breaking move to PSG, calculated decisions shaped his journey. Insights into Mbappé's personal growth, interactions with football legends, and his impact at the World Cup provide a glimpse into his evolution from a promising talent to a global football icon.
Timestamps:
00:00 Paris suburbs & footballing legacy.
08:48 Mbappé's diverse family, community pillars.
15:24 Mbappé meets Ronaldo, Zidane, awestruck by car.
19:03 1998 World Cup, racism controversy, young player.
21:54 Far right leader criticised nonwhite French players.
28:15 Mbappé faces rigid hierarchy, navigates his place in the dressing room.
31:31 Skilled footballer with versatility and tactical acumen.
38:36 Mbappé surprised by World Cup success, humbled by celebration.
44:49 Mixed reception in France for wealthy black celebrities.
48:31 Connecting with a frustrated young French generation.
53:34 Messi competes and pushing each other's performance.
01:00:08 Mbappé's potential to surpass football legends discussed.
01:03:18 Tune in next week for Roman Abramovich.
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Simon Kuper and Mehreen Khan take the heroes of football and show you the human behind them. Uncovering the very strange journeys some of them have made to the place where we got to see them, their life stories, and the societies that gave birth to them, we get to know these football people through a new lens.
The two hosts love football in very different ways. Is the World Cup just for football tourists trying to pretend they love football just as much as we do? That’s what Mehreen says, commenting on Simon having been to the last nine World Cups.
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