Episoder
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Kelsey Molloy is the Northern Great Plains Director at The Nature Conservancy and Angel DeVries is the Executive Director of the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance (RSA)– they both live and work on the Northern Great Plains in Malta, Montana. While they work for different organizations, Kelsey and Angel collaborate on a long list of critical projects, most of which are focused on grassland conservation, ranching, and community partnerships.
One of their most notable collaborations involves the Matador Ranch, a 60,000-acre TNC-owned property near Dodson, Montana. The Matador Ranch is home to an outside-the-box conservation initiative known as a grassbank, which is a partnership opportunity that offers ranchers grazing access to rich grasses in exchange for adopting sustainable practices on their own property.
This grassbank was introduced during the historic drought of the early 2000s, and it offered much needed grazing opportunities for ranching families whose homeplaces had been hit hard by the dry conditions. Since then, for the past 20+ years, the grassbank has continued to provide win-win solutions for ranchers and conservation-focused non-profit organizations, as well as helping to bolster trust, goodwill, and community cohesiveness.
As you’ll hear in this conversation, the grassbank has been such a success, the TNC is currently searching for another ranch to acquire and eventually transform into a community led and owned grassbank. This “grassbank 2.0” will not only provide a grazing safety net during times of drought, but will also further the work of providing opportunities for new or young ranchers who are just entering the business but do not yet have the capital to purchase their own land.
We connected via the magic of the internet, and had a wide-ranging conversation about their productive collaboration, grassbanks, challenges and opportunities in the Northern Great Plains, and more. We discussed the work of the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance, the history of the Matador Ranch, and the ins and outs of the Matador Ranch grassbank. We discussed how skyrocketing land values are making it nearly impossible for new ranchers to enter the business, and also how succession planning is becoming an important, but often underappreciated, issue for ranching families. We also talked a lot about the need for optimism and curiosity, the importance of building community, and how TNC and RSA are working to bridge cultural and geographic divides. We also learn about RSA’s book club, which will likely be of great interest to many of you.
I learned so much from this conversation and appreciate Kelsey and Angel taking time out of their busy schedules to chat with me. Hope you enjoy!
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Kelsey Molloy Angel DeVries TNC Montana Ranchers Stewardship Alliance Full episode notes & links: https://mountainandprairie.com/kelsey-angel/---
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:00 - Kelsey and Angel introduce themselves 8:10 - Background on the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance (RSA) 10:00 - A few of the biggest challenges facing Great Plains ranchers 15:30 - The history of the Matador Ranch and the grassbank 22:00 - Lessons learned from the grassbank 24:15 - A local’s perspective on the grassbank 25:30 - Wildlife-friendly fencing explained 26:30 - Other examples of grassbanks 30:15 - Emerging plans for a new grassbank 33:45 - Steps involved in finding a new property 36:00 - Success stories from the Matador Ranch 41:00 - Easements as a tool for grasslands restoration 43:45 - Importance of positivity and optimism 48:45 - Importance of optimism 52:00 - Important books 56:15 - RSA book club 59:45 - Words of wisdom---
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If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then you’re already familiar with the Partnership of Rangeland Trusts, also known as PORT. But for any new listeners, PORT is an alliance of agriculture-focused conservation organizations dedicated to preserving working farms and ranches and conserving productive agricultural lands. PORT is currently celebrating its 20th anniversary, and in those two decades (and as of this recording), PORT organizations have helped more than 2,000 families conserve almost 3.2 million acres of productive working lands across the West.
In this episode, I chat with three executive directors of PORT-affiliated organizations, two of which have been on the podcast before. You’ll recognize Chad Ellis of the Texas Agricultural Land Trust (TALT), and Erik Glenn of the Colorado Cattlemen’s Agricultural Land Trust. And new to the podcast is Michael Delbar, who leads the California Rangeland Trust. I’ve known all three of these guys for many years now, and I have long admired the ways that they lead their respective organizations. But perhaps even more impressive to me is how they have worked as a team with all nine PORT organizations to increase the scale, influence, and effectiveness of large-scale, working lands conservation.
I don’t think I’ve ever recorded an episode this early in the morning– we squeezed it in between an early morning breakfast and PORT’s board meeting. Just the day before, we had all been at TALT’s Working Lands Innovation Summit on the Birdwell-Clark Ranch in Henrietta, Texas, which was a huge success. So this was a great time to reflect on the importance of working lands, and we covered a lot: The Working Lands Innovation Summit and the importance of spending time out on the land; the history and purpose of PORT, the growth of additive conservation projects; private lands conservation as an economic driver; hard work; innovation; the importance of advocating for conservation in Washington DC; future plans for PORT, and much more. As you’ll hear, I start out chatting with Chad and Erik, and then Michael steps in for Erik about halfway through and shares his valuable perspective.
A huge thanks to TALT for inviting me to Texas and another huge thanks to all the PORT organizations and landowner partners who have had such a positive and significant impact on the landscapes of the West.
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PORT Texas Agricultural Land Trust Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust California Rangeland Trust All PORT members Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/port/ Ed's Book Recs---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:00 - Intro / What brought us all to Texas 7:00 - Importance of being on the land for the conference 8:45 - Introduction to the Partnership of Rangelands Trust (PORT) 12:30 - How and why PORT was created 15:30 - Additive conservation and the future 18:45 - Examples of additive conservation projects 25:30 - Private lands conservation as an economic driver 29:15 - Intro to Michael Delbar 31:00 - How the perception of conservation easements has changed in California 32:00 - Once again, the importance of relationships 34:15 - Hard work and innovation 39:45 - Advocating in DC 42:00 - How PORT’s scale translates into results 43:30 - Future plans for PORT 47:00 - Funding needs and parting words---
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Manglende episoder?
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Kevin Grange is a Wyoming-based author, paramedic, and firefighter. His most recent book is titled “Grizzly Confidential: An Astounding Journey Into the Secret Life of North America’s Most Fearsome Predator,” which is a must-read for anyone interested in the evolving relationship between humans and bears. The book follows Kevin’s journey throughout the American West and Alaska as he seeks to better understand grizzly bears, debunk many deeply engrained myths, explore case studies of successful coexistence, and more. The book is part travelogue, part adventure story, and part science– making for a fun and educational read that I highly recommend.
Kevin was born and raised in New Hampshire, where he grew up obsessed with the outdoors and, like many of us, obsessed with kids’ outdoor books such as Old Yeller, Sounder, and Where the Red Fern Grows. He attended paramedic school in California and began his career in downtown LA before landing a job as a National Park paramedic in Yellowstone. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Kevin has managed to successfully merge his love of medicine and adventure with his talent for writing, and with a lot of hard work, he’s enjoyed two successful, simultaneous careers– one in medicine and the other in writing.
Kevin and I connected just a few weeks after the publication of “Grizzly Confidential” and had a fascinating conversation about his career, his writing process, and his journey to better understand the legendary grizzly bear. We discussed his career path that led him to the West and his first experiences working in Yellowstone. We talk about balancing his paramedic work with his writing work, and how having a full-time job allows him to be more selective with his writing projects. We obviously talk a lot about grizzly bears– grizzly research, poaching, backcountry bear safety, his travels to Alaska, success stories of coexistence, false grizzly myths, overcoming his fear of grizzlies, and much more. Kevin is also a voracious reader, so he offers up plenty of excellent book recommendations.
A huge thanks to Kevin for writing such a fun and educational book, and a huge thanks to you for listening. Enjoy!
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Kevin Grange Grizzly Confidential by Kevin Grange Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/kevin-grange/ Live podcast at the REGENERATE CONFERENCE---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:00 - Intro and Kevin’s upbringing 5:45 - Favorite books as a kid 8:15 - First memories of grizzlies 9:15 - First encounter with a grizzly 11:30 - Becoming a National Park paramedic 13:45 - Types of emergencies in National Parks 15:00 - Idiotic tourist mistakes 16:45 - Balancing paramedic work with writing 19:30 - Why Grizzlies? 22:15 - How this book’s angle is different from other Grizzly books 26:20 - What’s the difference between a “Grizzly bear” and a “Brown bear”? 27:45 - Washington State University’s Bear Center 32:45 - Grizzly poaching 37:15 - Learning bear defense methods, including bear spray 41:15 - Basic backcountry safety in bear country 44:15 - Examples of good and bad coexistence strategies 48:15 - Debunking certain grizzly myths 52:45 - Continued learning about grizzlies 55:45 - How writing this book compares to the others 57:15 0 Favorite writers and books 59:30 - How has Kevin changed because of this project? 1:05:30 - Learning to switch gears after an intense paramedic experience 1:07:30 - Parting words of wisdom---
ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:
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Nick Mott is an award-winning multimedia journalist who lives in Livingston, Montana. His latest project is a wonderful new podcast called The Wide Open, which he produced in collaboration with Montana Public Radio and the Montana Media Lab. The podcast offers a fresh look into our ever-changing relationship with the Endangered Species Act (ESA), and it digs into the history, nuance, and modern-day controversies surrounding what has been called “the most powerful environmental legislation in the world.” Nick explores this devisive topic with deep curiosity and journalistic integrity, and I found the podcast to be amazingly educational and entertaining– which is a rare combo when discussing such a complex piece of legislation.
If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then many of the topics Nick explores in The Wide Open will be of great interest– grizzly bears, wolves, the environmental history of the West, and more. You’ll also hear a few familiar voices, including past podcast guest and living legend Doug Peacock. But what I most appreciated about The Wide Open is how Nick was able to humanize the stories surrounding such a divisive part of Western culture– he features people who love the ESA and people who hate it, but all of them are given the opportunity to share their stories and unique outlooks. In this current cultural moment of hot takes, outrage, and misinformation, The Wide Open is a much-needed return to nuance, curiosity, and civility.
As you’d expect from an award-winning podcaster, Nick knows how to tell a great story, so I know you’ll enjoy this episode. We start out discussing the history of the ESA and Nick’s fresh approach to exploring such a well-known environmental story. We discuss how the ESA is used as a tool to achieve goals other than species protection, how Nick balances the need to make his podcasts both informative and fun to listen to, how he accounts for his own personal biases when telling stories, and how he goes about choosing people to interview. About halfway through the episode, Nick recounts a horrifying recent run-in he had with a grizzly bear, and he discusses how that close call affected his thinking on some of these complex wildlife issues. We also discuss his favorite books, plans for future seasons of The Wide Open, how he deals with negative feedback, wolf reintroduction in Colorado, his professional heroes, and much more.
Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything, including Nick’s other podcasts and his book "This is Wildfire," which he co-authored with Justin Angle.
A big thanks to Nick for taking the time, thank you for listening, and please subscribe to The Wide Open– I know you’ll really enjoy it!
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Nick Mott The Wide Open "This is Wildfire" by Nick Mott and Justin Angle Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/nick-mott/---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:50 - What attracts Nick to specific stories or topics? 6:30 - Nick describes his new approach to examining the ESA. 8:30 - A brief history of the ESA 11:35 - Using the ESA as a tool to save species OR achieve other goals 16:00 - How Nick chooses people to interview and include on the podcast 19:15 - Balancing telling stories that are both entertaining and substantive 22:50 - Accounting for bias in journalism 24:45 - Why Nick includes his own story in the podcast narrative 27:30 - Introvert or extrovert? 28:50 - Did Nick change his mind on anything related to the ESA? 31:30 - How the internet has inflamed the divisiveness of the ESA 33:00 - Nick’s recent terrifying encounter with a grizzly 39:00 - The psychological aftermath of the grizzly scare 44:45 - Providing a framework for thinking about wolf reintroduction in Colorado 49:00 - People Nick admires 53:00 - What type of journalism does Nick like the best? 55:00 - Future seasons of The Wide Open? 56:45 - People Nick admires 1:00:00 - Favorite books 1:02:00 - Dealing with negative feedback 1:04:00 - Parting words of wisdom---
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Mauricia Baca is the State Director of the Nevada Chapter of The Nature Conservancy. In this role, she leads TNC’s efforts in Nevada across a wide range of conservation issues that are familiar to Mountain & Prairie listeners– the Colorado River, the Sagebrush Sea, and renewable energy. But Nevada is also home to some very unique conservation challenges related to biodiversity, mining for rare earth metals, groundwater for agriculture, and more. So I was excited to have this opportunity to learn from Mauricia about some of the specific challenges facing Nevada, TNC’s solutions to these challenges, and how the lessons learned can be applied in other regions of the West.
Mauricia was born in Mexico, grew up in New York City, and credits much of her love of nature and the environment to her childhood experiences exploring Central Park. After college, she served in the Peace Corps, worked as a community organizer in New York, and eventually attended law school. After four years of working as a prosecutor for the United States Department of Justice’s Environment and Natural Resources Division, she moved to Nevada and began her first position with The Nature Conservancy, leading conservation work on the Truckee River. She has served as the State Director since November 2020, and, as you’ll hear, all of her efforts are infused with a deep level of compassion, empathy, and gratitude.
Mauricia has such a fascinating personal and professional trajectory, and there are many lessons to be learned from both her approach to her life and career, and the specifics of TNC’s critical work in Nevada. We talked about her youth in Mexico and New York City, and how she has been committed to environmental work since she was a very young girl. We discuss her stint in the Peace Corps and how those experiences laid the groundwork for her current work with TNC. She shares some insights from switching from the litigation world to the conservation world, and she offers some wisdom for folks looking to make a similar transition. We discuss lithium mining, groundwater conservation, and climate change, and how TNC is making strides to protect biodiversity while balancing society's growing need for rare earth metals, water, and development. She also shares some wisdom gleaned from her recent battle with breast cancer, and discusses how her approach to work has changed since that life-altering health scare.
A big thanks to Mauricia for being so open and thoughtful, and for sharing so many wonderful insights from her inspiring career. Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discussed and to watch Mauricia's recent TEDx talk, which serves as a great companion to this interview. Enjoy!
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Mauricia Baca The Nature Conservancy in Nevada Mauricia’s TEDx talk Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/mauricia-baca/---
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:00 - Mauricia’s upbringing and early years in Mexico and New York City 7:00 - When she knew she wanted to devote her career to environmental work 9:15 - Legal training as thought training 11:45 - How the Peace Corps and other experiences helped her learn to build trust and relationships 16:45 - When TNC entered Mauricia’s life as a next career step 19:45 - More details on how she was able to land her first job with TNC 24:00 - Career evolution within TNC 26:00 - Starting as TNC State Director at the beginning of the pandemic 28:45 - Tackling climate-related challenges in Nevada and beyond 34:00 - The Atwood Preserve and the quiet beauty of the Mojave Desert 39:00 - TNC’s work to preserve biodiversity in the face of lithium mining 43:45 - The importance of groundwater for Nevada’s ag sector 49:00 - Working in partnership with Tribal communities 54:00 - Thinking locally and acting globally 56:00 - Lessons learned from Mauricia’s recent cancer scare 1:03:30 - Favorite books 1:06:00 - Parting words of wisdom---
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Joe Schobert is a retired NFL Pro Bowler who is devoting the second act of his professional career to advocating for the West’s wild places.
Joe was born and raised in Wisconsin, and despite having an exemplary high school football career, he was not offered a scholarship to play college football. So he took matters into his own hands and walked on at the University of Wisconsin– four years later, he was awarded the Jack Lambert Trophy as the nation’s best linebacker. He was then drafted by the Cleveland Browns, and a few years later, he earned a spot on the NFL’s Pro Bowl team. After a successful career with teams including the Browns, Jaguars, and Steelers, Joe recently retired and is leaning into the next phase of his career.
Since childhood, Joe has loved the outdoors and wide-open spaces. During his time with the Browns, he began leveraging his influence and resources to raise awareness and funds for conservation-focused organizations. Through an NFL fundraising initiative called “My Cause, My Cleats,” he spotlighted several Colorado-based conservation organizations on the NFL’s international stage. Back in 2021, his non-profit of choice was my old employer, Palmer Land Conservancy, and before that, he supported the Colorado Fourteeners Initiative. His most recent fundraiser is called the NFLPA Fishing for Conservation, which was created to raise funds for the amazing team at Western Rivers Conservancy.
As you’ll hear in this conversation, Joe loves the West, loves hiking, fishing, and outdoor adventure, and loves exploring wild places with his wife Megan and their two young sons. He also understands and appreciates the wide range of threats facing everything from family farms and ranches to public lands to river ecosystems, and he is committed to doing his part to protect these invaluable resources. So in this conversation, we talk about it all– from Joe’s inspiring journey at the highest levels of professional athletics all the way up to this summer’s first annual Fishing for Conservation, which took place at Lake Tahoe. At his core, Joe is a focused, humble, and action-oriented guy, and it was such a treat to learn the origins of his talents and how he has applied those talents to both football and conservation.
A huge thanks to Joe for joining me for a chat, and for his years-long commitment to western conservation. Enjoy!
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Joe Schobert Joe on Instagram Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/joe-schobert/ Support the podcast on Patreon---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:20 - Joe’s upbringing 6:15 - When it became clear that Joe was a talented athlete 9:30 - Discussing how, despite his clear talent, Joe did not receive an athletic scholarship to college, and how he pushed past that 18:15 - When Joe arrived at the University of Wisconsin 20:15 - What Joe is most proud of doing at Wisconsin 22:15 - Whether or not there was room for other activities (besides school and football) during Joe’s college experience 25:00 - When the NFL became a possibility for Joe 26:30 - How Joe chose an agent 29:45 - Discussing the Combine 32:30 - Discussing the NFL Draft 35:15 - Discussing training camp with the Browns 37:30 - Joe describes the training camp balance between preparing to work as a team but also working against teammates for a spot on the roster 39:00 - The importance of “intangibles” and “soft skills” in the NFL 40:45 - When conservation entered Joe’s brain, and how he ended up in Colorado 50:00 - Joe’s nonprofit, and the conservation fundraiser he held in Lake Tahoe 55:15 - Joe’s recent river trip in Montana 58:00 - Joe’s retirement and family life 1:00:30 - Joe’s book recommendations 1:03:15 - Discussing the need for action 1:06:00 - Joe’s parting words of wisdom---
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Heidi Redd is a renowned rancher, conservationist, author, and member of the National Cowgirl Museum’s Hall of Fame. Sue Bellagamba serves as Canyonlands Regional Director at the Nature Conservancy, and for more than thirty years, she has worked to protect the lands and waters of southeastern Utah.
Heidi and TNC have been partners since 1997 when Heidi sold her family’s Utah ranch– The Dugout Ranch– to the Nature Conservancy in a historic conservation deal that protected the property from impending development. The Dugout Ranch is located at the gateway to Canyonlands National Park and sits within the boundaries of what is now Bears Ears National Monument– a fragile and arid landscape that has faced various development and environmental threats for many decades.
Heidi and Sue have worked together in many capacities over the years, with one of their most notable achievements being the creation of The Canyonlands Research Center (“CRC”), which is headquartered at the Dugout Ranch. The CRC was founded in 2010, and its mission is to “promote a sustainable future on the Colorado Plateau for people and nature through research, inspiration, and demonstration of evidence-based solutions to solve some of our most pressing ecological, social, and economic issues.”
Heidi is also the author of the excellent new book titled A Cowgirl's Conservation Journey: Stories from the Dugout Ranch. The book details her fascinating and adventurous life, with tales ranging from her youth (which included lots of rock climbing and skydiving), to her early years on the Dugout Ranch, all the way up to some recent behind-the-scenes stories from the designation of Bears Ears as a National Monument. If you’re a fan of history, adventure, ranching, conservation, and purpose-driven people, I know you’ll enjoy the book.
We covered a lot in the episode, including Heidi’s upbringing, her first visit to the Dugout Ranch, and when she knew that she would devote her life to stewarding the Dugout’s spectacular landscapes. Sue provides some excellent context around conservation in the American Southwest, and why drylands are such a critical ecosystem and focus of TNC’s efforts. We discuss how TNC initially built trust with Heidi back in the 1990s, the creation of The Canyonlands Research Center, new insights Heidi gleaned from writing her book, and much more. Be sure to visit the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, including Heidi’s book.
A huge thanks to Heidi and Sue for taking the time to chat with me and share their wisdom from so many decades of conversation work in such a special part of the country. Enjoy!
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The Dugout Ranch The Canyonlands Research Center A Cowgirl's Conservation Journey: Stories from the Dugout Ranch by Heidi Redd Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/heidi-sue/---
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
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TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:00 - Heidi’s upbringing 7:15 - Heidi describes the Dugout Ranch 13:30 - When Heidi knew she wanted to dedicate her life to the Dugout Ranch and surrounding area 16:00 - When Heidi took the reins of the Dugout 20:45 - When Heidi became interested in working with TNC 24:30 - Why Heidi trusted TNC 26:45 - Sue explains why TNC wanted to get involved with the Dugout Ranch and what their plan was once they purchased it 30:15 - Sue explains the mission and purpose of the Canyonlands Research Center 32:15 - When climate change got on Heidi’s radar 37:45 - How Heidi discusses climate change, given our political climate 41:30 - Sue explains why drylands are so important 44:00 - Heidi and Sue explain the impact of the political battle surrounding Bears Ears on their work 50:30 - Heidi discusses whether or not writing her book helped her come to new conclusions 54:00 - Heidi’s hopes for her family 55:30 - Heidi and Sue’s book recommendations 59:45 - Parting words of wisdom---
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Curt Meine is a Senior Fellow at the Aldo Leopold Foundation and one of the world’s foremost experts on the life, work, and legacy of conservation icon Aldo Leopold. Curt is the author of the biography “Aldo Leopold: His Life and Work,” and he also works as a conservation biologist, a professor, a senior fellow with the Center for Humans and Nature, and much more.
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Since the very beginning of Mountain & Prairie, Aldo Leopold has been one of the most referenced, admired, and influential conservation thinkers whose name and ideas have been referenced over and over on the podcast. Whether I’m talking to people in agriculture or entertainment, writing or athletics, history or politics, there always seems to be a thread of thinking that connects many Mountain and Prairie guests to the Land Ethic of Aldo Leopold.
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So, I was long overdue in devoting an episode exclusively to Leopold, and I was thrilled to have the opportunity to chat with Curt, one of our most admired and trusted Leopold scholars. Whether you are brand new to the work of Leopold or you’ve read A Sand County Almanac a hundred times, I think you’ll learn a lot from this episode. Curt has a real gift for discussing the details of Leopold’s life in an amazingly engaging way, while also helping us to understand Leopold’s legacy in the context of the broad history of North American conservation.
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We start the conversation with an overview of Leopold’s early years and upbringing, and his eventual enrollment in the Yale School of Forestry. We discuss Leopold’s formative years in the American Southwest, how his outside-the-box ideas about wildlife sometimes clashed with the status quo, and his eventual move back to Wisconsin. We talk a lot about Leopold’s personality and how it compares to other conservation icons, how his work was received both in his lifetime and after his death, his surprising challenges finding a publisher for A Sand County Almanac, and that book’s long-lasting influence. We also discuss criticisms of Leopold’s work, some of his ideas that may not hold up as well today as they did in their time, and Leopold’s abundant curiosity and willingness to change his mind. We also discuss books, the very important work of the Aldo Leopold Foundation, and much more.
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Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of topics and links to everything. And also, I want to thank my friend, the great conservationist and all-around amazing human Doug Duren for so generously introducing me to the team at The Aldo Leopold Foundation and being such a steadfast champion of Leoplod’s legacy. Enjoy!
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Curt Meine The Aldo Leopold Foundation "Aldo Leopold: His Life and Work" Complete episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/curt-meine/ SIGN UP: Ed's Book Recommendations---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:45 - Aldo Leopold’s upbringing
11:15 - Leopold’s work in the Southwest
16:30 - How Leopold’s persona may or may not have helped (or harmed) him in his efforts to implement conservation
20:!5 - What brought Leopold back to his home state of Wisconsin22:45 - How Leopold’s novel ideas for wildlife management were received by the Forest Service establishment
26:45 - How Leopold’s ideas influenced forestry and conservation thinking outside of the Forest Service, and whether or not this influenced FDR’s conservation work
32:45 - Whether or not Leopold ever lost his cool in his fight to change land stewardship thinking in the US
37:00 - Discussing A Sand County Almanac, and how long it took to be viewed as the influential work it is considered by many to be today
43:15 - Leopold’s passion for, and balance between, science and art
45:45 - Which of Leopold’s stances or ideas do not hold up today
50:45 - Leopold’s willingness to accept change and criticism, and its importance today
53:15 - An overview of the Aldo Leopold Foundation
57:45 - Curt’s book recommendations
1:01:30 - Curt’s parting words of wisdom
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This is a completely different kind of episode, featuring a fun and at times crazy conversation with my two daughters, Janie and Louise.
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Back in June, we were eating dinner when, out of the blue, both girls expressed an enthusiastic interest in being guests on the podcast. So the next day, we set up the podcast gear at our dining room table, sat down, and had what I thought was a funny conversation.
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Both girls were surprisingly relaxed and acting pretty naturally despite having microphones jammed up in their faces, and I thought that the conversation highlighted their personalities, curiosities, and senses of humor. But I fully understand and admit that I am about as biased as any human can be when it comes to these two girls, so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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As you’ll hear, we jammed a lot of crazy topics into thirty minutes, including: camping, what makes for an ideal campground, their understanding of conservation, violin, rock climbing, jiu-jitsu, North Carolina versus the American West, the Biltmore House, silly 19th-century rules about girls wearing bathing suits, Costa Rica, Alcatraz, drunk people, earthquakes vs tsunamis, our favorite secret spot in Colorado, favorite books, commentary on my choice of shirts and underwear, and more topics you probably never thought you’d hear on Mountain & Prairie. I also asked them each to prepare a question to ask me, and one of them involved the unexpected topic of me getting into a fight with a wild animal– a subject I’d never really considered in detail until that moment.
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Anyway, I appreciate you humoring me with this episode. It was fun for the girls, fun for me, and my wife Kim and I will be happy to have this audio time capsule years from now when they are out of the house, living their own lives, and having their own adventures.
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Next week, we’ll be back to the normal episodes featuring grown-ups. I’ve got a great line-up of conversations coming your way, including a deep dive into Aldo Leopold’s life and work, a conversation with a Canyonlands conservation/cowgirl/ranching legend, and live interviews from the Old Salt Festival.
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Thanks for listening, and hope you get a few chuckles from this conversation with Janie and Louise.
---
ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:
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Nancy Smith is the Conservation Director for The Nature Conservancy’s Colorado River Program, and Austin Rempel is the Riparian Restoration Program Manager at The Nature Conservancy. Both Nancy and Austin are working on the front lines of some of the West’s most innovative water and habitat conservation projects– projects that benefit everything from groundwater supplies to wildlife habitat, climate resiliency to ecosystem health.
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If you’ve listened to many of these TNC-focused episodes, then you’ll know that TNC works extensively throughout the Colorado River Basin on a wide range of conservation issues that affect people, wildlife, and landscapes. In this episode, we’re going to zoom in on one very specific, very simple, and very effective process that has the potential to have massive positive impacts on ecosystem health throughout the West.
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The process is called “low-tech process-based restoration,” which is the practice of adding simple, low-cost structures made of natural materials like rocks, wood, and posts to simulate natural processes like beaver dams in streams and wetlands, kick-starting natural cycles of recovery. These structures require minimal permitting, can be built quickly by hand without heavy equipment, use locally sourced materials, and can be installed by local workers who do not need extensive training. The end result creates surprisingly effective outcomes that can be scaled quickly across vast stretches of the West.
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We recorded this conversation the day after Colorado River Day, which was a fitting time to highlight such an important project and process. We started out by discussing how this project came to be, which involved a significant amount of funding from the Inflation Reduction Act. We discuss how rivers have historically looked in the West versus how they look now, as well as the ecological complexities of riverscapes and riparian corridors. We then dig into the details of “low-tech process-based restoration”-- timelines, challenges, opportunities, partnerships, and measuring success. We also talk about beavers, shifting cultural norms around conservation, overlaps between forest and riparian restoration, favorite books, and much more.
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As you’ll hear, Nancy and Austin provide such an excellent overview of several varieties of low-tech process-based restoration. But for those of you who want to dig deeper into details of the various processes and case studies, they’ve provided me with extensive additional resources that you can access in the episode notes. I’d also encourage you to check out the short film embedded on the episode’s webpage, which will give you a visual overview of the process and its results.
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A big thanks to Nancy and Austin for the fun conversation, and thank you for listening.
---
Nancy Smith Austin Rempel Riparian Restoration short film Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/nancy-austin/---
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:00 - Nancy’s intro
5:26 - Austin’s intro
7:15 - The impact of wet upland meadows on the Colorado River (Nancy)
10:00 - How the Inflation Reduction Act has funded TNC’s important partnership work (Nancy)
13:30 - Defining the low-tech, process-based, restoration (LTPBR) involved in this project (Austin)
16:30 - What meadows have historically looked like in the American West (Austin and Nancy)
21:00 - Describing more of the structures TNC uses in this work, like beaver dam analogs (Austin)
26:30 - What kind of land TNC does this restoration work on (Austin)
29:30 - How long this work takes (Austin and Nancy)
33:30 - What success will look like for this work (Nancy)
37:30 - How LTPBRs help empower crucial work by being simple
40:45 - What could make or break this project (Austin and Nancy)
44:00 - TNC’s ability to balance innovation with responsible stewardship of funding (Nancy)
46:30 - Overlaps between river and forest restoration (Austin)
50:30 - What would make a good staff member for this work
55:45 - Nancy’s book recommendations
57:00 - Austin’s book recommendations
59:18 - Nancy’s parting words of wisdom
1:00:10 - Austin’s parting words of wisdom
---
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Dr. Alan Townsend is a scientist, author, and Dean of the Franke College of Forestry & Conservation at the University of Montana. His new book is titled “This Ordinary Stardust: A Scientist’s Path from Grief to Wonder,” and it’s an unbelievably powerful book. It’s the story of Alan’s family being rocked to the core by two unthinkable, back-to-back tragedies– his four-year-old daughter and wife both being diagnosed with brain tumors.
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Alan is a highly trained, Ph.D.-level scientist who spent his entire career using cold hard facts, emotionless inquiry, and academic rigor to try and solve some of the world’s most pressing problems. Yet when faced with a father/husband’s worst nightmare, he was forced to accept that science alone was simply not enough to make it through the gauntlet. I was blown away by Alan’s insightfulness and vulnerability and how he managed to constructively meld science and spirituality to make sense of an unimaginable catastrophe.
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Alan was born in Hawaii and grew up in Montana, where he spent much of his youth hunting, fishing, and exploring the West’s wide-open landscapes. His education and career in science allowed him to delve deeper into the natural world, giving him an even more intense respect and appreciation for the beautifully complex biological systems that make our world work. He’s worked in Amazonian forests and Costa Rican jungles, and he’s published more than 140 peer-reviewed articles. But, as you’ll hear in this conversation, Alan also embraces the more ethereal and unknown aspects of our existence, and he has a gift for discussing and writing about them in a very powerful and helpful manner.
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We met up at Alan’s office at the University of Montana, and had a very meaningful conversation about grief, curiosity, generosity, open-mindedness, focus, and family. We discussed Alan’s upbringing in Montana, his path to becoming such a highly trained scientist, and his process of re-evaluating the limits and usefulness of science in the face of tragedy. We talked a lot about his late wife Diana and her unbelievable toughness and his daughter Neva, who thankfully beat the tumor and is now a happy and healthy young lady. We discussed the compassion and skill of medical professionals, Alan’s years-long process of writing the book, and the indispensable role of his agent and editor. Alan also offers some wise, hard-earned wisdom for anyone who may be going through their own set of challenges.
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I loved this conversation, I loved the book, and I really appreciate Alan taking the time to talk with me. Be sure to click through the link in the notes to grab your own copy of "This Ordinary Stardust." Hope you enjoy.
---
Dr. Alan Townsend “This Ordinary Stardust: A Scientist’s Path from Grief to Wonder” by Alan Townsend All episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/alan-townsend/ Leave a (5-Star!) review on Apple Podcasts---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:10 - An introduction to the power of Alan’s book
6:10 - The importance of focus in Alan’s book, and the strength of Alan’s wife and daughter
10:40 - Discussing Alan’s writing
13:40 - Alan’s birth and early childhood in Hawaii
15:30 - When science became a focus for Alan
17:00 - Alan’s reading choices
18:45 - When Alan found out his daughter Neva had a brain tumor
21:00 - How Alan got through this incredibly challenging period in his life
23:15 - The importance of routine for finding mental stability and peace in difficult times
25:15 - The power of curiosity in Alan and his wife, Diana’s, life after Diana was diagnosed with brain cancer
27:45 - The difference between people who are curious when it is easy to do so and those who remain curious when life becomes difficult
30:15 - Why Alan reevaluated his relationship with science, and how he challenges readers to do a similar reevaluation in his book
37:15 - How we share more than we don’t, regardless of political belief
39:15 - How Diana invited Michael Brown into their home to learn more about his work with FEMA, demonstrating the importance of respecting and learning from people with different opinions
45:00 - Unpacking the theme of generosity in Alan’s book
47:45 - How Alan handled vulnerability and the desire for this book to have impact
49:45 - Alan’s relationship with his agent and editor
52:15 - Discussing Doctor Henry Freedman
56:00 - Alan’s take on how doctors dealing with mortality are able to handle the difficulties of that subject on a daily basis
58:15 - Alan’s work right now
1:01:30 - The next 5-10 years for Alan
1:02:45 - Of generosity, curiosity, and the willingness to fail
1:03:45 - Alan’s book recommendations
1:08:00 - Alan’s parting words of wisdom
---
ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:
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If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then you’ll definitely remember Pete McBride. He’s a renowned photographer, filmmaker, and author, and he’s joined me on the podcast twice before– once to discuss his epic hike of the length of the Grand Canyon, and then to chat about his global search for silence in a very loud world. I’m glad to say that he’s back again, and this time, we’re chatting about his backyard river– the mighty Colorado– and the challenges, opportunities, and realities facing the people and wildlife that depend on it.
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Pete’s newest book is titled “The Colorado River: Chasing Water,” and it features Pete’s stunning photography and insightful essays, along with a foreword by Nick Paumgarten and an introduction by Kevin Fedarko. The book follows the Colorado River from its headwaters in the Rocky Mountains all the way down to the Colorado River Delta, where it peters out just before reaching the Gulf of California.
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I’ve read a lot of books about the Colorado River and water in the West, but “Chasing Water” opened my eyes to a number of very specific and sometimes-maddening challenges facing the Colorado River Basin. The book delves into issues such as the unchecked exportation of water-intensive alfalfa to foreign countries, how dust leads to increased evaporation and water loss, as well as more optimistic topics, such as how Las Vegas has become an imperfect-yet-inspiring case study in responsible water conservation. But at its core, the book demonstrates Pete’s deep love and respect for the Colorado River, and showcases his two decades of dedication to telling the story of this world-famous waterway.
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We met up at Pete’s house in Basalt, overlooking the Roaring Fork River, and talked about all things water and conservation. We started by talking about Pete’s father, and how his advice many years ago led Pete to shift his focus from global adventure photography to the Colorado River. We discussed the disconnect between people and their water sources, the challenge of using an over-appropriated water source to grow food for an entire country, Pete’s firsthand experience observing changes in the river and surrounding landscape, his work with Indigenous communities throughout the basin, and his preferences between photography, filmmaking, and writing. We also discuss some of his recent favorite books, and much, much more.
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Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed and links to all of Pete’s books.
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A big thanks to Pete for graciously letting me barge into his house and hassle him with questions yet again, and thank you for listening.
---
Pete McBride The Colorado River: Chasing Water by Pete McBride Seeing Silence: The Beauty of the World’s Quietest Places by Pete McBride The Grand Canyon: Between River and Rim by Pete McBride Into the Grand Canyon documentary Full episode notes & links: https://mountainandprairie.com/pete-mcbride-3/---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:30 - All the places Pete has seen in the Colorado River watershed
6:30 - How Pete’s dad influenced Pete’s career
11:30 - The immense changes to the Colorado River over the course of Pete’s father’s lifetime
13:00 - Reconciling how much of the West’s water comes from the Colorado, and how few people know it
14:30 - Pete’s hope for his new book
18:00 - Pete’s style of writing for this visual book
21:00 - Discussing how much Colorado River water goes to cattle and cattle feed, and the water challenges that face agriculture
29:00 - The impact of dust on Rocky Mountain snow, and how that impacts the Colorado River34:30 - Highlighting an unexpected water conservation success story: Las Vegas, and how southwestern cities can start conserving their water.
39:00 - How many times Colorado River water has been reused along its trek to Mexico, and discussing the state of the Colorado River Delta
44:45 - How Peter wants to divide his time between books and films, and a discussion about “earning” hope
53:00 - Pete’s work with Indigenous communities’ access to Colorado River Water
1:01:00 - Pete’s book recommendations
---
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Peter Gower is the Nature Conservancy’s Climate and Renewable Energy Program Director for the Western United States and Canada Divisions, and Chris Menges is the Director of Climate Action for the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy. Both Peter and Chris are on the front lines of North America’s transition from fossil fuels to renewables, working to find solutions that protect and benefit working lands, natural landscapes, wildlife, and communities.
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As you’ll hear in this episode, the transition from fossil fuels to renewables is an incredibly complex process, and Peter and Chris are highly skilled at breaking down the issues and explaining them in a substantive yet easy-to-understand manner. While the details of their work may be complicated, everything Peter and Chris do is built on the very simple foundation of strong relationships, partnerships, and trust, which has been the common theme of all of these TNC-focused episodes.
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We connected virtually and had a great conversation about The Nature Conservancy’s work in the renewables space, exploring everything from TNC’s big-picture strategies in the American West, down to a few on-the-ground examples of successful initiatives and projects. We discussed how TNC is working with Western states to help them achieve their energy goals and some of the specific renewable work being done here in Colorado.
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We also talked about the challenges of finding sites for renewable energy projects, how market incentives can be used to ensure siting that benefits both people and nature, and recently passed legislation in Colorado that addresses these issues. We chatted about TNC’s extensive research in the renewables space, including its Power of Place studies. As usual, we discuss their favorite books and some resources to learn more about the issues surrounding renewable energy.
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Renewable energy has long been one of those topics that I have never been able to fully wrap my head around, but after this conversation, I felt that I had a solid foundation of knowledge– as well as the curiosity and desire to go out and learn more.
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A huge thanks to Peter and Chris for devoting the time to have this extremely educational conversation, and thank you for listening.
---
Peter Gower Chris Menges TNC’s energy work Power of Place West Report Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/peter-chris/---
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:20 - The state of renewables in the West (Peter)
8:05 - Chris’s renewable work on the ground in CO with TNC (Chris)
12:35- Challenges and opportunities associated with finding physical sites for renewable projects (Chris)
15:50 - Examples of market incentives that Chris thinks would help develop renewable sites to the benefit of as many interests as possible (Chris and Peter)
22:20 - Discussing the Power of Place studies (Peter)
26:35 - Other major challenges to implementing more renewable energy solutions (Peter)
33:05 - Discussing the Connected West study, to be released soon (Peter)
36:20 - Building relationships with businesses and large entities (Peter)
39:05 - Discussing Colorado SB24-212 (Chris)
47:35 - Developing renewable energy sites on “brownfields” (Peter)
51:05 - Where to learn more about renewable energy (Peter and Chris)
---
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Beatriz Soto is the Director of Protégete, a statewide program from Conservation Colorado, whose mission is to elevate Latino-driven solutions to protect our lands, water, air, and fight for environmental and climate justice. Prior to joining Conservation Colorado, she held a number of leadership and founding positions with conservation-focused organizations here in Colorado. At her core, Beatriz is a gifted and highly effective leader, one who combines her professional expertise with her unique personal story to act as a cultural bridge and give voices to both underrepresented communities and the threatened lands and waters of the West.
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Beatriz is originally from Chihuahua, Mexico, and she spent her childhood and youth in a bicultural setting between Mexico and the United States. She graduated from Colorado’s Basalt High School, and then went on to study architecture back in Chihuahua City, Mexico. For nearly 20 years, she applied her talents in architecture and design to a wide range of projects, from Net-Zero affordable housing projects to high-performance strawbale homes and everything in between, in locations ranging from the Pacific Coast of Mexico to Colorado’s Roaring Fork Valley. But as you’ll hear in the conversation, she eventually realized that she wanted to work more directly on issues including conservation and community vitality, so she pivoted and began her new career as a conservation leader in Colorado.
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Beatriz and I connected virtually and had an inspirational and instructive conversation about her amazing life story and her present-day conservation work. We talked about her bicultural upbringing between Mexico and the US, and the realities of growing up as an undocumented child. We discussed her family’s emphasis on service and community, and how those values have expressed themselves throughout her career. We talk about the uncertainty that accompanied her transition from a career in architecture to a career in conservation and advocacy, and why she decided to apply her talents to the mission of Conservation Colorado. We discuss the mind-boggling process of becoming an American citizen, how she builds trust with community stakeholders, her favorite books, and much more. Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we covered.
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A huge thank you to Beatriz for taking the time to share her wisdom, and thank you for listening.
---
Beatriz Soto Conservation Colorado Protégete---
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation.
To whom much is given, much is expected. This value guides the philosophy behind the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation today.
Committed to its cause and infused with an entrepreneurial spirit, Mighty Arrow aims to invest in solutions that take action on climate change to build a more vibrant future, repair relationships from farm to market to table, heal our connection to the lands and waters we call home, and demand a more just and equitable society.
To learn more about Mighty Arrow’s forward-thinking, optimistic, and visionary work here in the American West and beyond, please visit www.mightyarrow.org.
---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:30 - Beatriz’s childhood
5:30- What brought Beatriz and her family from Mexico to the US
8:30 - Reflecting on adaptation within Beatriz’s very mobile childhood
11:30 - Whether or not looking back on the US from Mexico changed Beatriz’s outlook on the US
14:00 - Beatriz’s experience growing up undocumented, and how that affected her upbringing
17:45 - Where Beatriz’s commitment to service comes from
22:45 - The importance of community
24:15 - Beatriz’s goals in college
26:30 - Beatriz’s work in design and architecture
33:00 - Beatriz’s shift away from design and architecture, and the fear that comes with transitions like that
36:30 - How long it took Beatriz to feel like it was the right move to shift from professional architecture to conservation work
39:30 - When Conservation Colorado came into Beatriz’s world
43:15 - Beatriz’s day-to-day work with Conservation Colorado
48:30 - Whether or not leaders and stakeholders are happy to hear from Beatriz and her team
51:15 - How Beatriz handles rejections from potential partners
53:30 - Discussing the Colorado Latino Justice Handbook
1:00:00 - What is next for Beatriz
1:02:45 - How Beatriz became a documented American
1:04:30 - Discussing how to simplify an overcomplicated immigration process
1:08:45 - Beatriz’s book recommendations
1:11:15 - Beatriz’s parting words of wisdom
---
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This is a special episode recorded live in Bozeman at the premiere of the important new short film titled "Good Fire, Bad Fire: Inside the Race to Restore America’s Forests."
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On the evening of May 16, 2024, around 200 folks gathered at Bozeman’s Museum of the Rockies to watch the 15-minute film, which captures the breathtaking beauty of our nation’s forests and delves into the urgent crisis threatening their existence. Following the screening, I moderated a panel discussion featuring an extremely impressive line-up of some of the nation’s leading conservationists and forest-health experts. The on-stage conversation gave us the opportunity to dig deeper into some of the issues raised by the film, and glean valuable insights into the importance of responsible forest management from ecological, recreational, economic, and policy perspectives.
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“Good Fire, Bad Fire” was directed by filmmaker Eric Ian, and produced by the team at the Property and Environment Research Center, better known as PERC, who also hosted the event. The panelists you’ll hear in this episode are:
Brian Ferebee, Chief Executive of Intergovernmental Relations for the U.S. Forest Service
Randy Newberg, renowned conservationist and Host of Fresh Tracks and Hunt Talk with Randy Newberg
Morgan Varner, Director of Fire Research at Tall Timbers
Corey Lewellen, District Ranger for the Bozeman Ranger District
Hannah Downey, Policy Director at PERC
Brian Yablonski, CEO of PERC (and a past Mountain & Prairie podcast guest)
I could’ve spoken with each of these experts individually for several hours, but having them all share a stage and combine their wide range of expertise into a single conversation was a powerfully educational experience.
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While you can listen to this episode on its own, I would strongly encourage you to first spend 15 minutes watching “Good Fire, Bad Fire” as a primer. There’s a link in the episode notes and it’s embedded on the episode webpage.
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I’d also encourage you to check out the episode notes for a full list of all of the topics we discussed, which included everything from a history of fire as a resource management tool to the Forest Service’s evolving approach to wildfires and forest health. We talked about forest health’s impact on hunting and fishing, the pros and cons of policies such as the ESA and NEPA, on-the-ground success stories, optimistic good news about the future of forest health, and much more. There were tons of resources mentioned, all of which are listed and linked on this episode’s webpage.
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A huge thanks to Brian Yablonski and the team at PERC for creating such an important film and for inviting me to participate in such an enlightening conversation. I hope you enjoy the film as much as I did, and I hope that this discussion provides some new insights into the all-important issue of forest health in the American West.
---
WATCH THE FILM: "Good Fire, Bad Fire" Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/good-fire-bad-fire/---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:15 - Introductions
6:15 - Where the USFS stands right now on its approach to wildfire and forest health (Brian F)
8:45 - A hunter and public lands advocate’s perspective on the state of the forests (Randy)
10:30 - A brief history of how fire became a resource management tool in the US and before the US (Morgan)
13:45 - Discussing obstacles to the forest management work described in Good Fire, Bad Fire (Corey)
18:00 - How we can streamline large federal processes like the ESA and NEPA (Hannah)
21:00 - Why PERC became involved in this forestry work (Brian Y)
23:15 - What is preventing ideal progress on forest management in Montana (Brian F)
27:30 - How Randy would recommend hunters and anglers take action and advocate for forest health
31:00 - Discussing how lessons in forest management from the Southeast can impact forestry in MT (Morgan)
35:15 - On-the-ground success stories in forest management (Corey)
39:45 - An example of fire outpacing procedure, and the impacts that can have (Hannah)
41:15 - How discussions of conservation and forestry are received by elected officials (Hannah)
43:00 - Predictions for the next five years of forest management (Morgan and Randy)
47:15 - Brian Y’s optimistic take on the state of forest stewardship
---
ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:
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This is a special Shed Session episode, normally published exclusively for Mountain & Prairie Patreon supporters. In it, I answer the most common question I receive, which is some variation of "How do I start a podcast?"
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In this episode I answer that question in excruciating detail, laying out everything I know about it, based on my own bumbling, meandering, eight-year journey through Podcastlandia.
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I hope this episode will provide a little bit of actionable guidance that will allow you to put your own unique ideas into the world.
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To listen to all past, present, and future Patreon-exclusive episodes, you can sign up at www.mountainandprairie.com/patreon. Memberships start at as little as $2 per month.
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Back to the regular episodes next week!!
–
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
[2:15] - Intro
[6:55] - Disclaimers
[10:00] - How and why I started Mountain & Prairie
[22:13] - Intentions
[28:12] - Getting started + endurance
[39:25] - Finding your voice, authenticity, enthusiasm
[52:55] - Finding an audience
[1:03:09] - Interview techniques
[1:08:48] - Finding guests
[1:11:40] - Dealing with negative feedback
[1:15:14] - Equipment and editing
[1:21:38] - Money (least important!)
[1:25:54] - Further reading
–
RESOURCES:
All Patreon-Exclusive Podcast Episodes Ed's 2024 Freeflow Course on the Rogue River Seth Godin Books: Purple Cow, Tribes, This is Marketing, The Practice Steven Pressfield Books: The War of Art, Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh!t Originals by Adam Grant 1000 True Fans by Kevin Kelly Conan interviewing Jack White Spreadsheet with all my podcast equipment -
Dan Stellar is the State Director for the Arizona Chapter of The Nature Conservancy, where he leads the organization’s efforts across a wide range of cutting-edge initiatives, including forest health, water conservation, resilient cities, healthy grasslands, and more. Arizona is one of the nation’s largest and most biodiverse states, which creates a host of extremely unique conservation challenges and opportunities– both in its arid, wide-open landscapes and densely populated urban centers. As you’ll hear, Dan and his team are implementing conservation solutions that not only benefit people and nature specifically in Arizona, but they are also creating actionable conservation frameworks that can be applied all over the American West.
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Dan was born and raised on the East Coast, and he has spent his career in the non-profit sector, applying his talents to important issues both domestically and abroad. He began his tenure at TNC Arizona in 2016, when he assumed the role of Deputy State Director. He quickly fell in love with Arizona and TNC’s critical work in the state, and, in 2020, he assumed the role of State Director. Dan is also a committed endurance athlete, and he’s run a mind-blowing number of marathons and half-marathons. And on top of all of that, he’s a dedicated father, husband, and family man.
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Dan and I share so many common interests in conservation, endurance sports, and family, so I was super excited to have the opportunity to learn more about the specifics of his work and his fascinating personal and professional journey. We started the conversation with an overview of what makes Arizona such a unique place from a conservation perspective, then we dug into the details of TNC’s work in forest heath, rivers, aquifers, outdoor recreation, and resilient cities. We talked about some of the lessons he learned from traveling and working internationally, why he chooses to push himself so hard athletically, and how he goes about building such strong relationships with stakeholders, partner organizations, and his TNC team members. Dan is also a voracious reader, so we obviously chatted about books, and he wrapped up the conversation with very wise parting words.
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I really felt like I’d met a real kindred spirit in Dan, and I greatly appreciate everything that he and his team are doing to make Arizona– and the West– a better place. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
---
Dan Stellar TNC Arizona's 2023 Annual Report Spring 2024 Field Notes Magazine Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/dan-stellar/---
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
3:30 - Setting the scene for conservation work in Arizona
8:45 - Forest health work in Arizona
15:00 - Aligning profit motives with forest health goals
22:00 - Whether or not there are down-sides to forest thinning
25:15 - Discussing the Verde River
31:15 - Discussing the Big Chino Aquifer
35:00 - Collaborating with the Trust for Public Land to build a new park in Arizona
39:45 - TNC’s work with cities in Arizona
46:00 - Dan’s passion for running, and his attraction to doing hard things
50:15 - How Dan fits running into his schedule
52:00 - How Dan became interested in conservation
57:30 - Dan’s lessons from traveling
1:00:00 - Dan’s book recommendations
1:04:30 - Dan’s parting words of wisdom
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Sandy Colhoun is the President of the National Outdoor Leadership School, also known as NOLS.
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Founded in 1965 by legendary mountaineer Paul Petzolt, NOLS is widely considered to be the world’s premier wilderness school, and its mission is “to be the leading source and teacher of wilderness skills and leadership that serve people and the environment.” NOLS operates in many of the world’s wildest outdoor classrooms, and it provides the highest quality instruction in many outdoor skills, including wilderness travel, mountaineering, rock climbing, sea kayaking, and more. But perhaps most importantly, through these outdoor adventures, NOLS students learn the foundational and all-important life skills of leadership, teamwork, humility, and responsibility.
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Sandy was named the seventh President of NOLS in October of 2023, after serving as the interim President and, before that, as a member of the NOLS Board of Trustees. Prior to his work with NOLS, he had spent much of his career in the worlds of education and journalism, most notably leading a $750 million fundraising campaign at Colby College in Maine. Sandy is also a proud graduate of a NOLS Wind River Mountaineering course, and he’s no stranger to hardcore outdoor adventures– he worked as a ski patroller in Park City, climbed in Alaska, Nepal, and Bolivia, and cycled up and over the Himalayas from Tibet to Nepal. As you’ll hear in our conversation, he’s focused, driven, and lots of fun, and he’s s fully committed to leading NOLS into the future.
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I’m a proud graduate of a 1999 semester-long NOLS course, which was hands-down one of the most formative and valuable experiences of my entire life. Yes, I learned plenty of outdoor skills that have served me well for nearly 25 years now, but the most important lessons were those that taught me the value of good exhibition behavior, being comfortable in uncomfortable situations, and keeping a positive attitude when life gets difficult. If not for that semester, I highly doubt I would’ve ever moved out west, worked in conservation, or started this podcast. So, I’m obviously a superfan of all things NOLS.
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I was so excited to chat with Sandy, and we covered a lot in our hour-long conversation. We discussed the history of NOLS, what separates NOLS from other wilderness schools, risk management, exhibition behavior, expanding one’s comfort zone, a description of the ideal NOLS student, Sandy’s own leadership style, his vision for the future of NOLS, how he will measure success, leaders that Sandy admires, favorite books, and much more. Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss.
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A huge thank you to Sandy for being so generous with his time and for everything he and the entire team at NOLS do to make the world a better place. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy!
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NOLS Sandy Calhoun Ed's Freeflow Institute Workshop Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/sandy-colhoun/---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:00 - A brief history of NOLS
8:15 - What sets NOLS apart from other outdoor schools
10:30 - Discussing NOLS’ partnerships
13:00 - How NOLS manages risk
16:30 - The talent of NOLS instructors
19:00 - What “expedition behavior” is
22:15 - How NOLS recruits students in a world that prioritizes job opportunities and career advancement
24:45 - How NOLS expands one’s comfort zone
28:45 - The ideal NOLS student
30:15 - Determining the next chapter of NOLS in the early 2020s
33:30 - Sandy’s career pre-NOLS
37:00 - Sandy’s leadership style
42:30 - How Sandy got his mind around the task of taking the helm at NOLS
46:00 - Measuring future success at NOLS
49:00 - Leaders that Sandy admires
52:15 - Sandy’s book recommendations
58:15 - Sandy’s parting words of wisdom, and how you can support NOLS
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Kami Bakken is a river guide and outdoor advocate, and she currently serves as the Director of the Freeflow Foundation and Director of Ambassador and Grant Programs for Rivers for Change. A native of Minnesota, Kami headed West for college at Colorado State University, where she earned a degree in Human Dimensions of Natural Resources. Since graduating in 2018, she has been fully focused on helping others explore and appreciate the mountains and rivers of the American West, while also advocating for their protection and conservation.
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Kami and I met in 2023 when she was the facilitator on my Green River Freeflow Institute workshop through Dinosaur National Monument and the Gates of Lodore. During our weeks of preparation for the course and our five days on the river, I was so impressed by her expertise in outdoor education and river travel, and perhaps more importantly, by her ability to connect with a wide range of people in a sometimes-intense wilderness setting. She’s humble yet confident, earnest yet hilarious, and I credit her with so much of the success of that workshop.
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When I was in my late 20s and deep in a traditional career in the real estate business, I dreamed of having a life and career like Kami’s– one that combined adventure and wide-open spaces with purpose-driven work. So I wanted to chat with her in depth to learn more about how she has made it all happen. If, like I was, you are interested in learning the realities of following a non-traditional but deeply fulfilling career in the outdoors, then you’ll definitely learn a lot from Kami.
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We met up a few weeks ago at my house in the Springs and had a wide-ranging and funny conversation about her life, career, adventures, and crazy misadventures. We talked about what drew her to Colorado for college, and some of the challenges of adjusting to such a new place and environment where she didn’t know anyone. We discussed some of her wild experiences traveling in the West and internationally– including a few run-ins with cult-like groups– and how she took the leap to become a sea kayaking guide and eventually a western river guide. We talk a lot about her commitment to pushing outside of her comfort zone, overcoming fear and discomfort, and why she’s drawn to conservation work. We also discuss the financial realities of seasonal work, how her non-profit work compliments her guiding work, her career plans for the future, and her roles with the Freeflow Institute and Foundation.
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And it’s worth noting that Kami and I will be heading out on the river again this summer for another Freeflow workshop, this time on Oregon’s Wild & Scenic Rogue River– August 15th through 20th. As of this recording, there are still a few spots left, so you can follow the link in the episode notes to learn more about the workshop and apply. As of this moment, you can use the secret code “ED200” to get $200 off of the tuition.
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A huge thanks to Kami for agreeing to let me ask her a bunch of weird questions, and more importantly, for all of her leadership and support on our river trips. Enjoy!
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Kami on Instagram and LinkedIn Freeflow Institute Freeflow Foundation Upcoming 2024 Freeflow Program on the Rogue River Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/kami-bakken/---
TOPICS DISCUSSED
4:00 - Where Kami is from
5:00 - Why Kami went to Colorado State, and how her family felt about that decision
9:00 - How her early experience in Colorado led her to WWOOF (and apparently a couple of cults)
15:30 - Kami’s return to CSU, and her entry into the world of outdoor recreation
19:30 - Kami’s travel adventures post-graduation
22:00 - Kami’s time with Protect Our Winters
24:15 - Kami’s transition to professional guiding
27:45 - Where Kami’s desire for connection and impact led her career next
31:45 - What Kami’s friends from college were doing while she was raft guiding, and whether or not she has ever questioned her career path
33:30 - Exploring the difference between contentment and happiness, and some more details about the outdoor education and rafting nonprofit that Kami worked for
37:15 - Kami’s transition to the Freeflow Foundation
44:00 - Discussing the Freeflow Foundation
45:45 - Balancing safety with growth driven by risk
50:00 - The trip that Ed and Kami did together on the Green River
54:45 - What makes for a good outdoor guide, and what makes for a bad one
59:00 - Who Kami admires
1:03:00 - Kami’s next steps
1:05:45 - What worries Kami
1:09:00 - Kami’s book recommendations
1:10:30 - Kami’s advice for those who want to try a new lifestyle or career
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Hampton Sides is a Santa Fe-based historian and bestselling author who has written many books that are favorites of Mountain & Prairie listeners, including "Blood and Thunder," "On Desperate Ground," and "Ghost Soldiers." His newest book is "The Wide Wide Sea: Imperial Ambition, First Contact and the Fateful Final Voyage of Captain James Cook," which is available now and sitting high on the New York Times bestseller list. If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then I’m sure you’re glad to see that Hampton has joined me for yet another podcast conversation.
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Much of Captain Cook’s epic third voyage takes place far from the mountains and prairies of the American West, in tropical paradises including Tahiti and Hawaii. But what you may not realize, is that a big portion of his final voyage was spent exploring and mapping the west coast of North America, from the rocky shores of present-day Oregon and Washington, all the way up to Alaska. While I was somewhat familiar with Cook and his explorations, I didn’t fully understand or appreciate the mind-blowing scale of his journeys or his impact on world history.
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As is the case with all of Hampton’s books, he melds together deep and extensive research with thrilling storytelling to make the process of understanding history as entertaining as it is educational. While Cook is obviously a central figure in "The Wide Wide Sea," the book also profiles numerous fascinating Polynesian and Indigenous historical figures, including the Tahitian man named Mai, whom Hampton and I discussed at length in our September 2021 episode. If you haven’t already listened to that episode, I’d encourage you to do so when you’re done with this one– there’s a link in the episode notes.
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Hampton and I met up here in Colorado Springs, one of many stops on his book tour for The Wide Wide Sea. As usual, we had a fun and at times very funny conversation about history, his research and writing process, and all things Captain Cook. We started out discussing why Hampton is drawn to write about controversial historical figures, and we talked at length about how he combined historical accounts from Europeans with those from the Indigenous communities that Cook visited. We talked about the mystery of Cook’s dramatic personality change, how Cook’s arrival disrupted the equilibrium of Polynesian cultures, Cook’s leadership style both before and after his personality change, how Hampton organized such massive amounts of research, and how and why he works so hard to get his books into the world. He also gives a sneak peek into his next book, which will based here in Colorado and explores one of the West’s most notorious massacres.
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A huge thank you to Hampton for taking time out of his busy schedule to chat with me again, and thank you for listening. Enjoy!
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Hampton SidesThe Wide Wide Sea by Hampton Sides
Hampton’s M&P episode discussing Mai
BOZEMAN FILM EVENT: Good Fire, Bad Fire---
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
4:30 - Discussing Hampton’s recent time on the road, and why Hampton values in-person readings
7:00 - Why write about Captain Cook
10:45 - Captain Cook, pre-1776
16:45 - Cook’s ship
21:15 - Exploring Cook’s mental health
25:30 - Exploring humans’ predisposition towards greed
29:30 - The importance of doing boots-on-the-ground research for history
32:00 - How Cook kept scurvy at bay
34:30 - Hampton’s biggest unexpected discovery while writing The Wide Wide Sea
38:00 - Whether or not Hampton experienced apprehensions about telling the story of a complicated person like Cook
42:00 - Discussing the circumstances that led to Cook’s death
45:45 - Discussing some of Cook’s personality traits and cultural differences between Cook and the Māori
49:30 - How Hampton organizes his quotes for writing
53:45 - How Hampton actually sells his books
58:00 - Hampton’s plans for the future
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