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Customer Acquisition Cost efficiency continues to be challenged in the B2B SaaS environment, while alignment across the Go-to-Market organization continues to be a topic of conversation. So, Dave "CAC" Kellogg a long time Marketing executive and Ray "Growth" Rike, a long time Sales executive decided to take on the the topic of Marketing and Sales alignment from their respective experiences as department executives. Topics discussed include:
What is Marketing and Sales AlignmentWhat isn't Marketing and Sales AlignmentTop 3 Ideas to Achieve Marketing and Sales AlignmentHow Metrics Can Impact Marketing and Sales AlignmentThe Impact of AlignmentIf you are a CEO depending on the productivity of an aligned Go-to-Market organization, or the head of Marketing or Sales in a B2B SaaS company, this conversation is full of interesting ideas, stories and approaches to increasing revenue growth efficiency.
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Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike recently did a LIVE episode of SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers at the Baker Tilly Technology Finance Symposium in San Francisco. The topic of their discussion was aligning Finance and the Go-to-Market functions and included how SaaS metrics can be used as a core "alignment" strategy.
During this "extended" version of SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers, Ray and Dave discussed several different strategies to align Finance and the GTM functions, including:
What is alignmentWhat isn't alignmentReal-life stories on what misalignment looks likePutting "Strategy" back into Strategic PlanningStrategic Planning Frameworks to considerSaaS Performance Metrics Framework to considerIf you are a CFO or GTM executive leader - this live conversation is full of interesting ideas, experiences and of course a few attempts at humor by the Metrics Brothers!
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Stock-based Compensation (SBC) has been a hallmark of the SaaS and Cloud industry since the early days. Stock Options, Restricted Stock Units, Strike Price, and vesting periods continue to be a key discussion point for potential hires. Today's episode covers how Stock-based compensation impacts Operating Expenses on the Income Statement...and how SBC can impact SaaS metrics.
Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dive into the details of Stock-Based Compensation in today's episode including:
What is Stock-Based Compensation (SBC)How does a company pay/account for SBCWhat kind of expense is Stock-Based CompensationWhere does SBC show up on an Income StatementHow can SBC impact SaaS metricsStock-Based Compensation can be a very complex and nuanced topic, but if you are a SaaS executive, a SaaS employee with stock options, or a SaaS company investor, this conversation and episode is full of detailed insights.
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B2B SaaS Benchmark reports are popping up like mushrooms - but how do you know if the benchmark report is good, contains valuable insights and how to use the benchmarks to inform your own objectives and SaaS metrics goals?
Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike take on a topic that is near and dear to their hearts and discuss several key factors that are a tell for a good benchmark report including:
Top things to consider when reading a benchmark reportAttributes of a good benchmark reportAttributes of a "not so good" benchmark reportBenchmark utilization best practicesGood Benchmark reports to reviewIf you read benchmark reports and use them in helping to establish goals and objectives in your B2B SaaS company - this episode is a must listen!
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Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) is a term commonly used across the SaaS industry - but what does it really mean, how can a company effectively build a customer acquisition strategy around it and what METRICS can be used to determine a company's ICP and then measure if it really is the best target customer segment?
During this week's episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the following ICP elements to understand, execute and measure the ROI on the "Ideal Customer Profile":
What variables are used to determine the ICPHow to measure the relevant fit of a prospect to the ICPHow to measure if the identified "ICP" is the best target customer segment(s)What metrics can be added to the traditional ICP criteria to enhance the targeting strategyAs always - CAC and Growth introduce a new pairing and an attempt at humor throughout the episode 😱
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Net Customer Base Expansion = (Expansion ARR - Churned ARR) which helps SaaS companies to understand how the existing customer base is impacting ARR growth excluding the impact of new logo customer ARR.
Why not just use Net Revenue Retention? CAC and Growth dive deep into this SaaS metric including:
Calculation formula for Net Customer Base Expansion (NCBE)How is NCBE different from Net Revenue Retention (NRR)What is CAC's definition of lazy NRRCohort vs Segment Calculations - what is the differenceWhat is a good Net Customer Base Expansion RateWhen and where does the Net Customer Base Expansion provide the most valueIf you are responsible for impacting how ARR grows at existing customers in a B2B SaaS company - this episode may provides some new insights and maybe a new metric to add to your SaaS Metrics glossary!
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B2B SaaS Pricing models have evolved over the past few years with 67% of SaaS companies now saying they have introduced at least one element of Usage-Based Pricing. Though this benchmark does not tell the whole story of pricing, as the primary pricing model is still based upon a subscription fee per user or a subscription fee per user + a Usage-Based or Value-Based pricing variable.
During this episode, CAC and Growth cover a wide range of current pricing trends and benchmarks including:
Subscription vs Usage vs Value vs Hybrid pricing model adoptionAdoption of AI and the associated pricing strategiesImpact on Growth Rates based upon pricing model usedUtilization of "Usage CAPS" and how they are chargedTreatment of Usage-Based Revenue when calculating ARRIf you are a student of the SaaS industry, and/or are evaluating if your current pricing model is optimized for your customers and your company's financial performance - this episode is chalked full of unique insights and thought-provoking commentary from Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike
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Common practice is to measure Sales and Marketing expenses as a percentage of revenue, which in the SaaS industry ranges between 20% - 60% based upon stage, growth and efficiency. CAC and Growth discuss an alternative metric which measures the ratio between Sales expenses and Marketing expenses, known as the Sales/Marketing Expense Ratio.
During this episode topics discussed include:
Sales and Marketing expense as percentage of revenue benchmarksSales and Marketing expense ratio - value and insightsWhat a 2:1 Sales and Marketing expense ratio meansWhat drives a changing Sales and Marketing expense ratioCustomer Acquisition Cost Efficiency metric - CAC Ratio vs S&M Expense RatioIf you are interested in measuring the allocation of the GTM budget between Sales and Marketing, this is a great episode and listen.
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The Sales Velocity metric calculation formula is (win rate x average contract value x # opportunities)/ average sales cycle length. The resultant Sales Velocity metrics highlights the amount of new bookings a Sales team can deliver per day....one key question about Sales Velocity is " is this a metric to help understand sales capacity, sales effectiveness or sales efficiency?
Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike break down Sales Velocity in this episode covering key topics including:
Sales Velocity CalculationSales Velocity BenefitsWhich input variables to focus on firstFour Approaches to Increase Sales VelocityIf you have a sales team, lead a sales team or are involved in how sales performance impacts financial goals, this episode provides several key "operator insights" on how to use the Sales Velocity metric and ideas on how to improve Sales Velocity!
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Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the latest revenue growth trends and the related metrics driving the growth as highlighted in GONGs 2025 State of Revenue Growth Report. Topics discussed include:
2024 Growth RatesSales Velocity Trends including Win Rates, Sales Cycle Length and ACVAI AdoptionTop Growth InitiativesSaaS Magic Number trendsIf you are responsible for the GTM and Revenue growth teams in your SaaS company, or just interested in the latest Sales benchmarks - this episode in another great listen!
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Implied ARR is the SaaS metric used to convert GAAP revenue for public SaaS companies into an equivalent to Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) used by investors and private SaaS companies. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the what, why and how behind Implied ARR.
During this episode CAC and Growth discuss multiple Implied ARR topics including:
Implied ARR Calculation FormulaWhy Investors Calculate Implied ARRSaaS Metrics that use Implied ARRChallenges with Implied ARRImplied ARR versus Trailing Twelve Month RevenueIf you are interested in how public SaaS companies analysts use Implied ARR, and what the differences are between private SaaS companies ARR and public SaaS companies Implied ARR this is another great listen!
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Max Schireson and Jason Mendel, from Battery Ventures recently published an article on Managing and Measuring R&D spend including key metrics from the DORA and SPACE frameworks and they also introduced their own 5 step R&D measurement framework including:
Allocate top downBreak R&D into granular buckets (not a lump sum)Listen to product-adjacent teams that are customer-facingBe deliberate about measuring success of R&D projectsHold the full team accountableThe article also includes benchmarks from Battery Ventures portfolio company, LinearB.
If you are interesting in best practices on measuring R&D productivity, this episode is a great listen!
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In this episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the SaaS Quick Ratio, a SaaS metric first introduced in 2015 with the goal to measure ARR growth efficiency by comparing New ARR growth versus existing customer ARR contraction.
The SaaS Quick Ratio borrows a concept used in general finance known as the "Quick Ratio" - which measures a company's ability to pay it's current liabilities.
The formula used to calculate the SaaS Quick Ratio is:
(New Logo ARR + Expansion ARR)/ (Churned ARR + Down-Sell ARR)
Traditional wisdom says a SaaS Quick Ratio above 4 is good, between 1-4 is ok but beware that ARR growth is not as efficient as it should be and less than 1 is highly inefficient growth - an ARR leaky bucket!
If you are a SaaS operator and looking for an easy metric to calculate that quickly highlights ARR growth efficiency as measured by the ratio of New ARR versus Lost ARR - The SaaS Quick Ratio may be for you.
Listen to the entire episode to hear CAC and Growth discuss the nuances of the SaaS Quick Ratio!
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Marketing budget and productivity benchmarks are hard to find, so when Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike first saw the ICONIQ Growth Marketing Budget and Productivity Report - they knew it was a great topic for this episode of SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers.
During today's episode, Dave and Ray discuss several critical Marketing Planning, Budget, and Productivity benchmarks including:
Marketing budget as a percentage of RevenueOn-line versus off-line spendProgram vs People budget allocationOnline Marketing spend by channelOff-line Marketing spend by programOutsourcing and Agency spend by program typeMarketing efficiency benchmarksPipeline contribution sourcesIf you are a B2B SaaS Chief Marketing Officer, Chief Financial Officer or CEO, this episode is chalked full of great data, insights and ideas for 2025 and beyond...
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ServiceTitan, a vertical SaaS company for the trades recently filed their S-1 and went public on December 12, 2024. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss many details regarding the S-1 including the basic enterprise value creating performance metrics and some very interesting aspects of the IPO structure.
During this episode, Dave and Ray discuss several aspects of the S-1 and IPO measured against industry benchmarks including:
ARR Growth RateRule of 40Net Dollar Retention RateCAC Payback Period Gross Margin S&M as a percentage of revenueR&D as a percentage of revenueARR per FTERevenue breakdown by category (Subscription, Gross Transaction Value, Services)Down round from last rounds of funding as a private companyCompounding IPO RatchetDifferent classes of stock and voting rightsOne of the sources of information used for this episode was the Meritech Capital S-1 breakdown which can be read here.
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KeyBanc Capital Markets in partnership with Sapphire Ventures recently published their 2024 SaaS Metrics Benchmark report. During today's episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dive into this years highlights including:
Growth RatesNet and Gross Revenue RetentionRule of 40Go-to-Market Organization RatiosMarketing Strategies and ProductivityHuman Capital EfficiencyValuation Multiples - By Growth RateIf you are a SaaS executive, employee or investor this episode is a great listen!
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The Sales Operations function evolves dramatically as a company scales and Meghan Gill, SVP Sales Ops and Sales Development at MongoDB has lived that reality. Meghan started in Marketing at MongoDB as employee number 8 as the first non engineering hire, and then seven years later took over Sales Operations in preparation for their IPO.
CAC and Growth discuss the evolution of Sales Ops with Meghan and discuss several key topics including:
The career journey from Marketing to Sales OperationsThe evolution of Sales Operations post IPOSales Operations vs Revenue OperationsGTM changes required when converting to Usage-Based PricingCentralized planning to decentralized global planning - an operations perspectiveHearing how the role of Sales Operations evolves from pre IPO to post IPO and continuing to $2B+ directly from a person who has been in the middle of making that journey possible makes for a highly informative conversation and a unique guest centric SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers episode!!!
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CAC and Growth discuss the recent Scaling SaaS from $1M to $20M ARR ICONIQ Growth report that provides a long term view on the performance metrics benchmarks that SaaS companies exhibit at granular stages of growth including $5M, $10M, $15M and $20M ARR.
Benchmarks covered include:
Enterprise Five Benchmarks (Median and Top Quartile)Growth Plateau Challenges started at $25M ARRNew Logo GrowthOperating Expense TrendsAnnual Contract Value Growth by StageNew ARR vs Expansion ARRARR per FTEBurn MultipleThe ICONIQ Growth "Scaling SaaS from $1M to $20M ARR" Report provides unique insights and perspectives on the benchmarks that define success as measured by both the top quartile and median benchmarks for the 107 private SaaS companies that are included in this research.
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The Remaining Performance Obligation (RPO) metric has become a more standard metric that public company Wall Street analysts have started to follow closely to help evaluate the bookings growth of recurring revenue companies. CAC and Growth cover the following topics regarding RPO including:
Why was the Remaining Performance Obligation createdWhat does the Remaining Performance Obligation (RPO) metric tell investorsHow is RPO calculatedThe difference between RPO and deferred revenueHow multi-year agreements impact both the RPO and Deferred Revenue calculationsIf you are interested in how public company analysts use the RPO metric or are just a student of the SaaS industry - this episode dives deep into an increasingly important SaaS investor metric!
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Customer Retention is a hallmark of the SaaS recurring revenue business model. But what is the primary metric to measure the cost of retaining each customer, how is the efficiency to renew ARR calculated, and what goes into that metric?
Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike go deep into the components of Customer Retention Costs and the value in measuring including:
The benefits of measuring Customer Retention CostsCustomer Retention vs Customer Renewal CostsThe Components of Customer Retention CostsTotal ARR or Renewed ARR - which is the best to measure Retention Costs againstThe SaaS industry has multiple metrics that measure the cost to acquire a customer (Customer Acquisition Cost), the efficiency of acquiring new customers (CAC Ratio), the payback period on Customer Acquisition Costs (CAC Payback Period) and how much recurring revenue is retained every period (Gross Revenue Retention- GRR)...but no standard metric that measures the efficiency of retaining and renewing customers.
During this episode, CAC and Growth dive deep into the topic of the Customer Retention Cost Ratio and the Customer Renewal Cost Ratio!
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