Episoder
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In this episode, Andrew talks about the rapid audience growth he's seeing on Bluesky and the challenges he's running into finding Founding Users for MetaMonster. The guys talk about the idea of product market fit as a spectrum and validation as a way to uncover where you might be on that spectrum, but without ever getting to 100% certainty. Then Sean talks through trying to find his next side project idea.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/CopyWork: https://copy.work/Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00.01Sean
This is a full Andrew podcast with Sean does a support character today Mainly because I was late before this call
00:08.75
Andrew
Uh, I was also kind of late. I was chatting with a friend and it took me a while. Yeah. what's up, man? How are you?
00:17.09
Sean
I'm good. um I'm busy. um Yeah, I'm busy. A lot of things happening with miscreants, Q4, trying to get a lot of things wrapped up before the holidays and and just so much inbound.
00:31.44
Sean
So much inbound.
00:31.83
Andrew
That's great.
00:32.67
Sean
Yeah, it is. It's amazing. You know, partially
00:34.65
Andrew
you see You sound exhausted by it. but
00:36.91
Sean
I'm so tired. Yeah. Well, partially thanks to you for for doing some really good work as well. So I appreciate it.
00:43.48
Andrew
Cool. I'm glad it's been helping.
00:45.98
Sean
Yeah, absolutely. What's up with you? What's going on?
00:49.78
Andrew
So two things I want to talk about today, a small one and then a bigger one that I want to work out some thoughts with, with you and our, our 12 listeners.
01:01.03
Sean
Yeah.
01:02.70
Andrew
so the small one real quick blue sky is popping off right now. It is wild. I've been, I've had an account for like two weeks now and I'm up to 1200 followers.
01:16.59
Andrew
starter kits are this like magical growth hack, uh, where
01:16.28
Sean
he yeah
01:20.44
Sean
Are starter kits just lists but people can auto follow everyone in the list?
01:25.31
Andrew
Basically, yeah, yeah, a starter kit is basically like a Twitter list.
01:26.99
Sean
okay
01:30.65
Andrew
But so in Blue Sky, you have three concepts that that fulfill part of the responsibility of lists um in Twitter. So you have starter kits, which are a way to curate a list of people that you think others should follow most often around the topic. So like, I'm in a couple of like indie hacker, indie founder, bootstrap founder, starter kits. and you can, when you open a starter kit, you can follow individual people or you can just click follow all.
02:01.31
Andrew
and And so that's how I found people to follow. I'm following like 360 people. It's almost all from like a handful of starter kits. And then and it's a really great mechanism for people to very quickly build a little network.
02:18.09
Andrew
And it's if you get added to a couple of these, it's an awesome growth mechanism.
02:22.54
Sean
Hell
02:22.64
Andrew
So I'm up to 1,200 followers. very, very quickly, which is cool.
02:28.21
Sean
yeah.
02:29.29
Andrew
And we'll see how that correlates to engagement. wasn't seeing much engagement for the first like maybe 400 or 500 followers, but now I feel like I'm starting to see some pretty solid engagement.
02:41.50
Andrew
I think engagement is naturally going to lag behind followers on the platform while people are still building a habit of checking and using Blue Sky, because it's still like A lot of people are switching over right now or like signing up and trying it for the first time, and so they're not going to have that usage habit right away. But I'm now seeing more engagement there than I am on tweets, and I have like 2700 Twitter followers.
03:09.80
Andrew
So there's there's starter kits, then there's lists. they do have lists that work exactly like Twitter lists, which are like a non-algorithmic way to curate a list of people whose content you want to view without following them. And then they have feeds, which are custom algorithms that developers can write and publish.
03:31.61
Andrew
so there's like 50,000 feeds. So there's essentially 50,000 different algorithms you can choose to subscribe to and follow. So there's a default discover algorithm. There's a default like following algorithm, where it's just everyone you follow.
03:46.88
Andrew
then you can subscribe to lots of different feeds and customize your algorithm work the way you want to, which is a really cool idea.
03:59.56
Andrew
Yeah.
03:57.79
Sean
that is a really cool idea i wonder i wonder if there's like a secret like if your feed is used a lot you know how like you know plug-in like places that like have that you do upload plugins and stuff will pay out a certain amount if you have like a cool
04:13.36
Andrew
Maybe. Yeah. I don't think they've started doing revenue sharing on blue sky yet. and they very openly said they're going to try to stay away from advertising and sell premium features, which is interesting. sort of Also the blue sky team is only 20 people. There are 20 people on the team.
04:34.05
Sean
So you're saying Musk didn't fire enough people when he joined Twitter. That's what you're telling me.
04:39.64
Andrew
I'm saying it's really cool what they're doing. And they're they're being very open and like chatting with and interacting with the community. Overall, the vibes are just, it I think because it's new, like this won't last forever, but because it's new, people are looking for people to follow. They're looking for content to engage with. therere They're just more open and and curious than where people have more set patterns of behavior that they fall into.
05:11.07
Andrew
So the vibes are really good right ...
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In this episode, Sean talks about getting himself out of day-to-day client work at Miscreants, and Andrew provides an update on his slow progress with customer acquisition for MetaMonster. Andrew shares an idea for a side project and they talk about Dharmesh buying the chat.com domain and "flipping" it to OpenAI.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/CopyWork: https://copy.work/Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00.98Sean
All right, what is this thing, Andrew? What are you gonna tell me? even It's been 30 minutes since you told me we we're changing what we're talking about today. Now you've been, okay, go.
00:12.23
Andrew
let me Let me just play this for you and I think it'll all make sense.
00:15.25
Sean
Okay.
00:21.25
Andrew
and
00:24.28
Andrew
hoping you can so into me baby
00:28.45
Andrew
Do you know what this is yet?
00:33.18
Sean
Yes. I know what this is. I know what this is. This is the... I feel bad for all Asian guys in SF. I'll never outdo you, you tech bros. It's fucking over.
00:51.69
Andrew
Wait, wait! graves keepki godam oh
01:02.88
Andrew
I never thought I would hear Mark Zuckerberg with T paid singing sweat, drip down my balls.
01:04.84
Sean
z pain that's what what what do you want to do you want to dissect the lyrics you want to
01:11.18
Andrew
Oh, ski, ski motherfucker. Oh, ski, ski. God damn.
01:17.79
Andrew
Oh my God. I found this and I was like, holy shit. Clear everything. This is all I want to talk about.
01:32.86
Sean
honey
01:32.98
Andrew
I think it's just fucking hilarious. And like, I can't decide if I like love it or hate it. Like I can't decide if it's the best thing ever or the most cringe thing ever. And I think I love it. And I think I love it in part because it is kind of cringe and he just doesn't give a fuck.
01:52.89
Sean
for what it's worth though maybe this was the light at the this was the this was the one piece of uplifting news in recent times my executor the one who keeps us going
02:01.14
Andrew
Right. Oh my God.
02:08.17
Andrew
Yeah. So that, that is the, uh, Mark Zuckerberg collaboration with T-Pain. Uh, their group is unofficially or officially, I guess, Z-Pain. Um, they have one single, which is an acoustic version of Gitlo, which Mark recorded for his wife Priscilla because apparently it's the song they listened to every anniversary.
02:28.74
Sean
Yep, and then you played it for her, and...
02:32.21
Andrew
Is there a video of him playing it for her?
02:33.61
Sean
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:34.49
Andrew
Oh my God, I gotta go watch that. i I mean, he's found something that works. Being a wife guy is working for his brand right now and he is leaning all all the way in.
02:47.07
Andrew
and
02:47.21
Sean
Hey, you know what they say about wife guys, though?
02:50.47
Andrew
Yeah.
02:50.85
Sean
on the internet. okay I just hope he doesn't.
02:53.35
Andrew
Yep, it's gonna blow up at some point.
02:57.23
Sean
I don't think he was on the ditty list, so we'll be okay.
02:57.61
Andrew
But...
03:00.01
Sean
we might or Or the FC list, so we might be okay.
03:04.72
Andrew
For what it's worth, I love T-Pain so much.
03:08.46
Sean
Yeah, he's great. He's great.
03:09.83
Andrew
T-Pain's Tiny Desk Concert is one of my all-time favorites. It's so good.
03:13.97
Sean
i I just love that he is just doing side quests at the moment. Like, the guy's a genius.
03:21.04
Andrew
Zuck or T-Pain?
03:22.12
Sean
No, no, T-Pain. Zuck, I guess, is also doing a side quests at the moment, but like...
03:23.46
Andrew
Yeah.
03:26.12
Sean
I'll just like I'll watch random youtubers and like sometimes T-Pain will just show up like like that are not related to things related to him you know I'm watching like a car guy youtuber boom T-Pain's winning a drift competition yeah I'm on twitch all of a sudden or I'm not on I'm browsing twitch and all of a sudden T-Pain's a streamer I don't know yeah
03:28.43
Andrew
Mm-hmm.
03:36.42
Andrew
Mm hmm. Holy shit, that's cool.
03:47.23
Andrew
By the way, on the Zuck side, I just listened to the acquired episode about Metta, and it made me realize that like. I feel like public perception of Metta is changing a little bit like I feel like Elon Musk buying Twitter.
04:01.86
Sean
Yeah.
04:04.11
Andrew
has kind of has taken a lot of the heat off of meta.
04:06.90
Sean
Yeah.
04:07.45
Andrew
And so now everyone's like, Elon's elon's the evil one.
04:09.12
Sean
He's almost like, it could be so much worse.
04:13.00
Andrew
And yeah, Elon's like, you guys think 2016 Facebook was bad?
04:13.84
Sean
Yeah.
04:19.71
Andrew
Bro, hold my drink.
04:21.08
Sean
Listen, when you gotta be the best at everything, you know?
04:26.64
Andrew
Including being a massive fucking troll.
04:28.86
Sean
Yeah.
04:30.46
Andrew
Yeah, but it made me realize that like I don't hate meta as much as I used to. And I i don't know if that's like.
04:35.61...
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Manglende episoder?
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In this episode, Andrew and Sean talk about Halloween plans and Sean's decision to kill Stackwise. Meanwhile, Sean has launched two new free tools in the last week! The guys talk about how he did it and what his goals are for both of them. Then they spend the rest of the episode brainstorming marketing ideas for MetaMonster.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/CopyWork: https://copy.work/Wordpress to Webflow-ready CSV: https://contentgobl.in/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00.35Sean
Cool. Happy Halloween.
00:02.59
Andrew
Happy Halloween.
00:04.93
Sean
Are you going to any parties?
00:05.11
Andrew
o
00:08.27
Sean
Are you doing anything?
00:09.37
Andrew
Yeah, we're so normally we go to Chicago for Halloween hang out.
00:14.09
Sean
Because it's extra scary there. Sorry, go ahead.
00:16.45
Andrew
What?
00:17.99
Sean
It's just so scary in Chicago. and i don't know that's not why that's not why i was That's not why I was going with that.
00:20.19
Andrew
Wow, that's racist, John. Fuck you, dude.
00:26.99
Sean
Jeez, I'm kidding.
00:29.92
Andrew
fucking New Yorkers hating on Chicago. Gross.
00:33.16
Sean
That's not racist. I'm just elitist. That's different.
00:38.29
Sean
Yeah.
00:39.11
Andrew
normally we go to Chicago because, uh, a bunch of Maddie's best friends from high school all live there and they throw a Halloween party every year. So normally early we go and we go out with them and we go to like one bar and then we go get, uh, like shitty Greek food and then we go home.
00:46.34
Sean
yeah
00:56.68
Sean
Nice.
00:57.84
Andrew
but this year we decided to stay in Detroit, because we love Halloween and we love decorating for Halloween and. We've never gotten to be in Detroit for Halloween, we really want to pass out candy this year so tomorrow, which will probably be today by the time I get this published.
01:16.54
Andrew
We're gonna hang out, pass out candy, go drink some beers with our neighbors. And then Saturday, one of our best friends is throwing a haunted carnival party.
01:27.46
Andrew
It's her second year in a row throwing this like haunted carnival themed Halloween party.
01:30.91
Sean
Sick.
01:32.68
Andrew
So we're gonna go to the haunted carnival party and Maddie's dressing up as a ringmaster and I'm dressing up dressing up as a lion.
01:39.02
Sean
Nice.
01:39.91
Andrew
She's like a ringmaster lion tamer and then I'm a lion.
01:42.17
Sean
Yeah, hell yeah.
01:43.56
Andrew
So it's gonna be fun.
01:44.70
Sean
Sick.
01:46.43
Andrew
Yeah, what about you?
01:48.22
Sean
I'm debating on whether or not there's this like Instagram, ah like ah ah actually been sorry. I don't even know what they are. There's just like some cool internet website thing called shell tech that they're like a band or or producer do, or I don't, I don't fucking know.
02:02.36
Sean
They just make music. It's apparently dropped the new album.
02:03.90
Andrew
Fun.
02:05.31
Sean
They have like an album party tomorrow and I think it's for, so maybe that, or maybe I'll be in my room jamming away.
02:08.48
Andrew
pun
02:16.05
Sean
on whether or not stackwise has a future because i am uh-huh yeah
02:19.88
Andrew
wait Wait, wait, pause before we get too far into that. Can you just tell me a little bit about like what Halloween is like in New York? I'm so curious.
02:32.57
Andrew
Like Yeah.
02:33.00
Sean
what is how yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like uh well in queens it's super cute it's very residential you know so everyone like especially in a lot of kids in the neighborhood they walk around and they get candy and there's like really nice areas in queens that people will go to and there's like halloween decorations and stuff yeah exactly exactly the full skies can i think it's a trap i think that's like a like
02:52.01
Andrew
Got to go get the full size candy bars. I went to Costco today and I was this close to buying the full size bars, but yeah, I'm not actually sure it's better.
03:03.66
Andrew
I'm not sure giving out full size bars is better. Like my plan is to give out a big old handful of candy and, and then you get a mix of candy and you get to like spread it out a little.
03:05.94
Sean
Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.
03:14.05
Andrew
Whereas if I give you a full size bar, you're going to eat it super fast.
03:18.14
Sean
I was just gonna say, like, the expectation of being in a house that gives full-sized candy bars, that's dangerous.
03:21.100
Andrew
Oh yeah. Once you go, once you go full size, you can't go back.
03:24.58
Sean
Yeah. Exactly. You can't, you can't roll back the whatever.
03:27.20
Andrew
Yeah.
03:30.16
Sean
Yeah. But like, yeah.
03:34.39
Andrew
It was 20 bucks for 30 full size bars or 20 bucks for like a five pound bag of candy.
03:40.29
Sean
Yeah, see?
03:40.72
Andrew
And so I was like.
03:42.09
Sean
Did you see that meme of, uh, one of the fuh- uh, like, fuh in a Halloween bucket?
03:47.49
Andrew
Yes, that was so good.
03:47.91
Sean
And it's like, one ...
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In this episode, Sean discusses the challenges he is facing (and his new momentum) with his project Stackwise, including finding the right developer and getting the project scope defined. He talks about discovering a no-code tool called Subframe that has helped streamline his design process. Andrew shares his progress building the MetaMonster website with Astro and SpinalCMS, and gets feedback from Sean on the first round of MetaMonster wireframes. They also discuss pricing models and ideas for holding company names.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/New MetaMonster website built with Astro: https://metamonster.ai/MetaMonster prototype designs: Click hereChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...Podscan: https://podscan.fm/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00.76Sean
The yeah motivation for the podcast is brought to you by Arvid Kahl, the creator of Podscan.
00:09.01
Andrew
Hi, Arvid.
00:10.02
Sean
Hi Arvid. Shout out to Arvid.
00:13.06
Andrew
Podscan, Podscan, Podscan.
00:14.76
Sean
Yeah, the creator of Podscan, excellent tool, doesn't sponsor us, but but has been the reason why we've had three founders reach out to us on Twitter now.
00:25.94
Sean
So that's pretty cool. It's kind of just like a modern day summoning ritual at this point, Beatlejuice.
00:33.81
Andrew
By the way, what did you say is brought to you by podscan? Did you say like, did you say this podcast sounded like you said like the wrong name of our podcast?
00:39.44
Sean
Oh, the oh this episode no, the motivation, the motivation for ah ah for for this podcast, the the the motivation to do today's episode.
00:47.14
Andrew
Oh, okay.
00:50.86
Sean
Yeah, yeah.
00:51.40
Andrew
Got it. Got it.
00:52.63
Sean
Yeah. Now that we are a full minute in.
00:54.17
Andrew
Cool, man.
00:55.65
Sean
but
00:57.34
Andrew
How are you? What's going on?
00:58.79
Sean
I'm good. I'm good. Remember how I was super stressed last week about stack-wise and the lack of movement on it?
01:08.93
Andrew
Mm hmm.
01:10.11
Sean
So I I put some more budget towards it, a little bit more, and just or like a ah you know mentally committed more budget to it.
01:17.41
Andrew
Cool.
01:21.40
Sean
And checked out Lemon.io. a little bit more expensive than I think. We'll see. I don't know. I checked Alumni.
01:29.78
Andrew
Yeah, fair.
01:30.22
Sean
I also went on Upwork to look for devs. Had some like interesting proposals come in. Then I was talking to a dev and He looked really promising. He was like 75 bucks an hour, is like about lemon I.O. prices. So and you know, he he like like takes supplements and and whatnot. So he has some realm of understanding. And then he hit me with a he'd so he reviewed the he reviewed the current code and everything. And then he hit me with a yeah, if you want me to like fully scope it, I'm going to need you to like actually give me user stories and like better Figma wireframes.
02:10.35
Andrew
Like actually project manage and like build a scope and everything like via products manager.
02:11.90
Sean
Yeah, yeah, like actually do it. I know, I know. And then I was like, wow, that's really annoying. I guess that's kind of fair, I guess. um It's hard to so like really feel like I've put my foot best foot forward on this project without having done that. So I did it. I wrote a PRD. I wrote a bunch of user stories. I mean, I had one in the past that was like a loose bullet pointed list, but this was like a little bit more official.
02:35.52
Andrew
Yeah.
02:37.13
Sean
and then I, and then I sort of wireframe, like rewire framing some stuff in Figma. and, uh, you know, that, that, that for a little bit was pushing back my timeline.
02:48.31
Sean
i have a day job which takes more time out of my which takes more than just my regular day so it's like ah like I got maybe like two screens into the fig into the Figma part and I was like damn I really don't want to go like do this all over again because like I have shitty wireframes right I don't um um uh and oh oh and and in the meantime like as as these guys were like reviewing it i i kind of felt a little bit uh like uh like like i don't know at a just like an informational disadvantage a little bit so
03:24.97
Sean
I've also just watched a shit ton of Laravel tutorials and Laravel things. now now I kind of like mostly understand Laravel and PHP, not to a degree that I can write it, but to a degree that I can read it and know what's going on and and like and make edits and stuff.
03:39.55
Andrew
Mm hmm.
03:42.17
Sean
So, you know, I was able to kind of review the proposals a little bit better. That's been my last week until yesterday. And then I remembered that there is this thing I saw, which was a no code frontend React, like build at with tailwind components, or build with like like React components export as React code and tailwind. And it's called subframe, YC startup, super, super small. I don't know how small they are, but very small following.
04:12.66
Sean
Excellent product. God, it's so good.
04:15.69
Andrew
Cool.
04:15.54
Sean
And not only is it good, it feels like a mix between Figma and Webflow, except I'm kind of working with like components. And i if I want more components, I have to make more make them on my own.
04:25.92
Sean
But there's a long list of just basically subframe versions of Tailwind components. And it makes me way happier to be designing in this than designing in Figma, mainly because I hate the idea that if I'm going to desi...
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In this episode Andrew tries to pick a CMS for the new MetaMonster website and talks about his dream solution. Then the guys talk about their ideal consulting businesses. Meanwhile Sean is feeling frustrated by how slow his projects are moving, and wishes he could focus on them fulltime for a bit. They also touch on the difficulties of balancing attention to design details versus just getting a product out the door quickly. Finally, Sean shares 3 businesses he loves.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00:00.01Sean
Uh, yeah, I mean, I was going to talk about, well, I should have your record.
00:00:05.81
Andrew
Do you want to start over?
00:00:07.50
Sean
No, it just let's just roll with it. Hi, everyone.
00:00:10.80
Andrew
Hi, how's it going? Behind the scenes look at Andrew and Sean being a bit of a clusterfuck trying to figure out what the hell the pod about 30 seconds before the pod or five seconds after the pod.
00:00:12.65
Sean
Good.
00:00:20.21
Sean
We're very organized or we're incredibly organized. think, I think it's a good segue into, into like, we can talk about like other service business and I have a segue into it because I was kind of curious about just how your consulting is sort of going now that.
00:00:34.65
Andrew
Okay.
00:00:35.35
Sean
Yeah. but more importantly, some crazy, crazy, crazy tech Twitter stuff going on these days, huh?
00:00:42.87
Andrew
Oh, so when i when I said I wanted to talk about CMSs, yeah the WordPress drama, I feel like we covered a little bit last time.
00:00:42.94
Sean
Since the last.
00:00:49.11
Sean
Yeah.
00:00:49.88
Andrew
There's more updates. it's It keeps getting wackier.
00:00:53.21
Sean
Mm hmm.
00:00:53.72
Andrew
The WordPress founder took over a plugin, which is batshit crazy.
00:00:59.63
Sean
Yeah, I was just going to go from crazy batshit WordPress things into maybe Ghost and then CMS's house imagining.
00:01:08.50
Andrew
Uh, sorry, I totally fucked your, your segue there.
00:01:09.97
Sean
No.
00:01:13.12
Andrew
yeah, anyway, I need to build a website and I'm trying to pick a CMS and I want you to, to I want you to tell me which CMS to use and I'm gonna, I'm gonna like ignore you and tell you why you're wrong on every CMS.
00:01:22.11
Sean
squarepace Okay.
00:01:26.46
Andrew
Like, because they all suck.
00:01:26.71
Sean
Okay. Hit me. Hit me. They do all suck, but hit me.
00:01:31.00
Andrew
Okay. So I think I have it narrowed down. I wanted to use, so I'm trying to build a proper marketing site for MetaMonster so that I can get a little bit of SEO stuff rolling and then publish some content and just like have a place to do marketing.
00:01:51.26
Andrew
um want to build some free tools, want to do some other things to just start building building the list, our waiting list.
00:01:54.30
Sean
Yeah.
00:01:59.89
Andrew
So need to pick a CMS. would typically just build on Webflow. Like Webflow is so fast. It's what I built chart juice on. It's clunky, it's expensive, it has its problems. The CMS sucks if you're doing a lot of content, but for like early stage SaaS website, I don't know many things better. So would typically just do Webflow. But I know one of the marketing channels I wanna try is building
00:02:32.68
Andrew
some free tools to try to drive, get like SEO juice from, from free tools and like some traffic. it just aligns perfectly with MetaMonster, you know, having a free like, enter a link or copy and paste your content in and we'll generate a page title for you. We'll generate a meta description for you. Like it just makes too much sense. Um, and sorry, one second. Let me let my cat in.
00:02:57.67
Sean
got
00:02:58.58
Andrew
Come on in you dork.
00:03:01.38
Andrew
Okay. So yeah, I want to build free tools and like.
00:03:03.43
Sean
You want to build free tools. It's great. It isn't a monster.
00:03:08.40
Andrew
The process of doing that in Webflow is just clunky. I could yeah know i could build them, host them on some free thing like Netlify, and then just like run them on a subdomain.
00:03:19.66
Andrew
But you know if the whole point is SEO, then running it on a subdomain is a little counterproductive. you know It's not the worst thing in the world, I guess, but you're just like, do they now?
00:03:28.86
Sean
does it you I thought subdomains count as the main domains. like Yeah, I thought that was the whole thing.
00:03:38.16
Andrew
I feel, oh, okay, I need to look into that. Cause that would massively simplify my my problems.
00:03:44.34
Sean
right
00:03:46.07
Andrew
I always thought like best practice was to do everything on your primary domain and that like subdomains got treated differently.
00:03:52.10
Sean
I thought that
00:03:56.09
Andrew
You're looking it up.
00:03:57.51
Sean
Yeah, I'm looking it up. I feel like it was something.
00:04:01.40
Andrew
There was a Google update, like in this, one of these new big updates, they they started
00:04:02.81
Sean
Yeah.
00:04:06.13
Sean
Yeah.
00:04:07.62
Andrew
Mashing it all together.
00:04:08.89
Sean
Yeah. I mean, Ahrefs literally pulls shop.mistreins.com and mistreins.com into one thing now for me.
00:04:16.03
Andrew
Interesting.
00:04:16.97
Sean
So. I don't know. Yea...
-
Sean just got back from two weeks in Korea and Japan. His trip got derailed when he had to jump in to put out fires and finish some Webflow dev work for a client. He and Andrew talk about the challenges of removing yourself from the day-to-day as an agency owner and how to balance work and time off.
Andrew gives an update on the client work he's doing with Miscreants, his decision to put ChartJuice on the backburner, and the traction he's seeing with a new product (MetaMonster) he's working on with a partner. MetaMonster helps SEO agencies automate metadata cleanup using AI. He already has 3 agencies/consultants signed on to be design partners and is working on getting more.
We wrap up with an outsider's explanation of all the Wordpress drama going on right now.Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00:01.77Sean
What's up? I wanna go see.
00:00:03.30
Andrew
Miss you.
00:00:04.17
Sean
I wanna see you too. I wanna see you too.
00:00:05.85
Andrew
How are you?
00:00:06.85
Sean
Good. I feel like I saw you in person and then all of a sudden I was in Korea and Japan and then I...
00:00:13.69
Andrew
Yeah, shit. That was like not, not far apart, was it?
00:00:14.59
Sean
So... It wasn't... My last memory of the US was being at your place and drinking cocktails. So, yeah.
00:00:26.00
Andrew
That's a good night.
00:00:26.91
Sean
It was a good night. It was a good night. We played basketball.
00:00:30.25
Andrew
but that was Oh my God.
00:00:32.10
Sean
Play is a strong word. We attempted basketball.
00:00:35.25
Andrew
We threw basketballs around in the dark and like one or two of them went into a basket.
00:00:40.26
Sean
Yeah.
00:00:40.26
Andrew
Oh my God. You made me feel a lot better though. Cause I was like, I was like, Sean's going to smoke me. Like he's going to be so embarrassed at how bad at basketball I am and you are just as bad as I am.
00:00:51.77
Andrew
So I was like, okay, cool.
00:00:56.81
Sean
Yeah. I think about like how like my first million has that basketball camp. Just like there's no way all these people are that good at basketball.
00:01:08.14
Andrew
I love the image of like Sean Burry is just like, you know, making people like, uh, like bring over a step stool or something so he can dunk. He's like, but then he he goes on my first million and talks about it and he's like, yeah, it was awesome.
00:01:17.33
Sean
Yeah.
00:01:23.65
Sean
Yeah, I hit every sh- I hit- I banked every shot.
00:01:26.87
Andrew
No, I think like there are a lot of people in tech who are actually athletic because they played sports at some point in their life.
00:01:35.34
Sean
Yeah, probably.
00:01:35.70
Andrew
And then, and then there's the rest of us who got into tech because we were nerds and liked computers.
00:01:42.01
Sean
Yeah. Oh. Plus, I mean, you rock climb. Like, you're pretty athletic.
00:01:47.12
Andrew
I haven't been rock climbing in like two months.
00:01:47.27
Sean
You- you just suck the best at work.
00:01:51.37
Sean
Oh.
00:01:51.95
Andrew
I am actually going rock climbing outside in with some friends in two weeks, and I'm like, I should probably go climb a wall in the gym before I go, because I haven't climbed in like two or three months, so.
00:01:51.93
Sean
Okay.
00:01:55.81
Sean
Oh, cool.
00:02:00.09
Sean
Yeah.
00:02:02.82
Sean
and Get those forearm muscles pumping again.
00:02:05.99
Andrew
I gotta get my skin. My skin's gonna.
00:02:07.90
Sean
Right.
00:02:09.20
Andrew
like be shredded if I if I don't climb at all and then go try to climb outside so I feel like it takes me like two or three climbs before my skin starts to thicken up again
00:02:19.51
Sean
you know what you can do there's this guy on tiktok he pours i don't know what it is but something really sticky on his hands so he like is like a martial artist or something and it's like it's like epoxy or something and he basically just rubs it on his hand and or like sand papers down his hand basically and until it gets super super rough he just does it every single day on tiktok it's gross.
00:02:40.15
Sean
It's terrible. And you can like, oh, oh, it's, uh, it's like floor wax.
00:02:43.18
Andrew
And so then it like grows back thicker or something?
00:02:45.40
Sean
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like floor wax basically.
00:02:47.63
Andrew
Wait, wait, wait. We were talking about the wrong thing. How was your fucking trip?
00:02:48.09
Sean
he just like, and he also puts his hand next to the microphone and it's like the worst version of ASMR you've ever heard in your life. It's like worst at misophonia. Um.
00:02:57.48
Andrew
wait wait wait we're talking about the wrong thing how was your fucking trip
00:03:03.02
Sean
Well, much like listening to really shit awful man hands. It was. It was good to attempt a vacation.
00:03:17.29
Andrew
Oh, no.
00:03:18.12
Sean
It was not it is it is not what I would call a vacation.
00:03:18.68
Andrew
Oh, no, Sean.
00:03:23.61
Sean
It sucked. It sucked to be honest with you. It was like it.
00:03:26.96
Andrew
Brutal.
00:03:26.33
Sean
Yeah, yeah, y...
-
In this episode, Andrew and Sean got hit up by someone clearly using Podscan... again! They talk about it, then Andrew shares details about his recent trip to Mexico City, including highlights like a hot air balloon ride over the pyramids and an exciting Lucha Libre wrestling match.
Sean provides an update on Stackwise, discussing the data sources they've uncovered and the challenges of building a comprehensive database. Meanwhile, Andrew delves into the validation process for his latest SEO-focused startup idea, weighing the pros and cons of targeting different user segments.Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...Podscan.fm: https://podscan.fm/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:01.71Sean
You know what we should rename our podcast tagline to?
00:05.21
Andrew
sandwich free.
00:06.47
Sean
No, not same.
00:09.97
Andrew
What is that?
00:10.48
Sean
No, the best case study that Podscan works.
00:15.95
Sean
We should be front page on Podscan FM.
00:18.73
Andrew
Genuinely, we should we should reach out to it's not Arjun. What's his name, Arran?
00:24.60
Sean
I have no idea. I don't know who makes Podscan. I just know about it.
00:27.08
Andrew
Oh, he's he's the dude who's the. ah ah Oh, fuck, I signed out of Twitter everywhere. so that I wouldn't get distracted.
00:36.50
Sean
Nice. I'll look it up.
00:37.86
Andrew
Arlen, something like that, he built he built like class dojo or he he built some like teaching software with his wife, sold it.
00:48.13
Sean
Arvid. Arvid.
00:48.97
Andrew
Arvid, Arvid call, that's his name.
00:49.57
Sean
Arvid.
00:51.16
Andrew
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, if avid has a and Arvid hot scan trigger, we'll find out.
00:56.81
Sean
Yeah, we'll find out. Arvid.
00:59.14
Andrew
So, hey Arvid.
00:59.99
Sean
Arvid call. Arvid call. Arvid call. Feedback panda. Arvid call.
01:03.88
Andrew
feed neck to end there, that's what it was.
01:06.67
Sean
Zero to sold, or we'd call. Alright, maybe we'll summon him for the next one.
01:12.62
Andrew
Yeah, that was wild. So, I get...
01:18.40
Andrew
I forget which podcast episodes we've published because I'm behind. So I like didn't even realize I'd published that episode.
01:24.75
Sean
Yeah.
01:24.82
Andrew
But we published a podcast episode where we were kind of like, I was hating on intro. You're pro intro. I was hating on intro.
01:32.17
Sean
Uh-huh.
01:33.57
Andrew
And then the CEO of intro tweeted at us this week and was like, here's why you're wrong and why intro is great.
01:39.63
Sean
not Really, it's not really a tweet. It was kind of an essay, actually. It was kind of like, yeah, yeah.
01:42.93
Andrew
Yeah.
01:44.32
Sean
But that's the second time someone famous on the internet has hit us up on Twitter because of that.
01:49.41
Andrew
I wish they would fucking promote our podcast when they treat at us.
01:56.45
Sean
I don't know.
01:56.90
Andrew
Instead of doing it so subtly.
01:57.13
Sean
I feel like this is a secret and feel like there's a little secret growth hack in there, you know?
02:01.18
Andrew
Yeah, but the girth hack only works if they like tell people about you.
02:06.72
Sean
No, no, no, no, no. I think that you can leverage it for, for more reach.
02:08.29
Andrew
To become biffles.
02:12.19
Sean
Cause if I, cause if I reply to his thing, I'm, you know, I feel like there's enough Twitter engagement there in in the, you know, get the algo going and, and, and you know, what is beef marketing?
02:22.26
Andrew
Is this like even grosser beef marketing?
02:27.16
Andrew
Beef marketing is when you start beef with somebody just for like the views and the clicks.
02:30.09
Sean
Oh, I see.
02:35.19
Andrew
So obnoxious.
02:36.88
Sean
I say yeah.
02:37.09
Andrew
yeah who's You know who's the king of beef marketing?
02:41.16
Sean
No. Who's the king of beef marketing?
02:42.94
Andrew
DHH. DHH is the
02:44.69
Sean
Oh.
02:45.98
Andrew
The king, the founder, the creator, the the god of beef marketing.
02:51.86
Sean
Right, right, right.
02:52.08
Andrew
That man can start beef with anybody.
02:54.78
Sean
right say well What's his full name? Just in case pods can.
02:56.89
Andrew
David Heinemeyer Hanson.
02:58.48
Sean
OK, cool, cool, cool. Basecamp, basecamp, basecamp. Maybe he uses Podscan too. Yeah. Yeah. Jason.
03:08.45
Sean
Yeah. I don't know. I think he has good ideas sometimes.
03:14.37
Andrew
What did you actually think of the intro guy's response to us? I can no longer pull up because I logged myself out of Twitter and don't want to log back in.
03:23.34
Sean
you know i think i appreciated the thoughtful response um um on it that's kind of
03:29.13
Andrew
You want to summarize real quick?
03:29.28
Sean
weirded I was weirded out yeah I was weird for what's worth a a little bit weird out kind of kind of weird ...
-
Note: This episode was supposed to come out a couple of weeks ago. But Andrew forgot to attach the audio file when he went to publish, so it's just been sitting in our podcast hosting software. Sorry about that.
In this episode, Andrew and Sean dig into Paul Graham's founder mode essay that has gone viral in the past couple of weeks. Spoiler alert: Andrew is not a fan.
Sean talks about the challenges of evolving client demands with Miscreants, while Andrew recounts his experiences in Mexico City and his decision to pivot ChartJuice towards a freemium model.
Then they talk through some of Andrew's new AI-related business ideas, including automating marketing graphics and financial modeling for agencies, and his new co-founder and year-end goals.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00.63Sean
Can I start this podcast off by reading you a quote?
00:06.34
Andrew
Sure, I'm so curious.
00:10.28
Sean
um Have you seen the Ted Chiang essay about Gen AI?
00:15.59
Andrew
No.
00:16.55
Sean
okay um It was on The New Yorker. he okay so
00:20.85
Andrew
For a second, when you said JIN AI, I thought J-E-N, and I thought this was like some new AI company I hadn't heard of that named their AI JIN, as in short for Jennifer, and then I realized I'm an idiot, and you're talking about generative AI.
00:34.68
Andrew
so
00:35.09
Sean
Well, there's there's a startup called, I think, Jim, it's like a 25 year old like Korean person who Korean guy um and he like did like the rounds on YouTube for a little bit about how he like went from like broke to 100 million in net worth overnight because.
00:35.41
Andrew
ah
00:41.20
Andrew
Oh, that's cool.
00:51.05
Andrew
Jesus Christ. What?
00:52.11
Sean
um I mean, it was like the dawn of like LLM stuff and jennna I had just started so.
00:57.32
Andrew
Yeah.
00:57.44
Sean
adam
00:57.71
Andrew
Okay. All right. Hit me with the quote.
00:59.67
Sean
Okay, so let me just preface this. Ted Chiang, excellent sci-fi writer, um um ah wrote a really great book called Exhalation, one of my favorites.
01:10.54
Sean
um
01:10.83
Andrew
Oh, I've been wanting to read that.
01:12.94
Sean
Yeah, excellent, excellent book.
01:15.57
Andrew
Cool.
01:16.59
Sean
Would recommend, there's like a two page story in there that I really, really like. But, um You know, this this would have been great if i if I had it pull up, and I didn't.
01:28.60
Andrew
Had it pulled up if you were prepared.
01:31.18
Sean
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's not how we do things. we you You know what? I can't find in this article. So I'm going to pull it up on a Slack thing.
01:42.69
Sean
OK. um It's just the task that generative a generative AI has been most successful at is lowering our expectations. um And I was like, damn.
01:54.53
Andrew
Oh, interesting.
01:55.78
Sean
hot take yeah uh
01:57.03
Andrew
How do, okay. So how do you interpret that?
02:00.61
Sean
well um i sent it as like a kind of honestly like uh
02:05.49
Andrew
Do you agree?
02:10.72
Sean
Yeah, yeah, I do. um I don't agree with his essay. I think his essay about how his essay is about how Gen AI won't ever make art, and I think that's arguably true, um but I think that he misses the fact that Gen AI would be an art form, and people will use it the way that they make art with Photoshop and then collage things together.
02:25.42
Andrew
Sure, but at that point, it's not Gen AI making the art, I don't think. I think it's human artists making art using Gen AI as a medium or a tool.
02:29.77
Sean
you
02:35.06
Sean
Agreed, agreed.
02:35.66
Andrew
ah like I think what he's saying is like the thing that Gen AI, at least in its current form, can't think.
02:36.21
Sean
hence in
02:43.90
Andrew
right it doesn't It doesn't produce creative thought.
02:44.72
Sean
Right.
02:46.78
Andrew
it's not It's not actually that intelligent, even though it's really good at looking intelligent.
02:47.70
Sean
Right.
02:53.73
Sean
Right.
02:53.80
Andrew
um it just it repeats it guesses it and you know there's still this possibility that if we like scale it up enough we find out that that's all we do anyway and original thought is all just like guessing and repeating and suddenly it's doing what we can do but like we think that most likely we will need a new technological revolution like and a different form of AI technology paired with
02:58.14
Sean
Yeah. yeah
03:13.96
Sean
Sure.
03:25.17
Andrew
paired with or that replaces our current. Anyway, sorry, you know all this shit I'm preaching to the choir.
03:28.49
Sean
know um Well, to go back to the quote, I absolutely think it's true.
03:33.93
Andrew
Yeah.
03:34.93
Sean
I actually think Gen. AI makes incredibly mid stuff. um Yeah.
03:39.30
Andrew
Yeah, for the most part. Yeah.
03:41.52
Sean
But I think we are always astounded by it because of the speed at which it can make incredibly mid stuff is impressive.
03:41.64
Andrew
um
03:48.77
Andrew
Yeah.
03:50.11
Sean
And that's I think that's lowering expectat...
-
In this episode, Andrew talks about his upcoming trip to Mexico City, which started as a potential plan to live there but has evolved into a working vacation. Sean talks about recent challenges in his agency, including team members getting sick after conferences and some project misfires with smaller clients.
Andrew then gives an update on the lukewarm progress he's seeing with ChartJuice (complete with raw metrics) and again ponders a freemium pivot. He's grappling with the question - how do you know when to give up on a SaaS product?
They wrap up by debating whether shelling out big bucks for 15 minutes with a big shot is worth it or just a fancy way to burn cash.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00:01.34Sean
but what up what up
00:00:02.64
Andrew
Not much, just ah trying to get a full week of work done for the first time in what feels like weeks um in part because I am headed to Mexico City next week.
00:00:09.84
Sean
yeah well
00:00:14.45
Andrew
um And I'll be working from there, but the first week I'm only going to have like two days because um Maddie gets in like midday Thursday.
00:00:14.79
Sean
yeah
00:00:24.72
Andrew
I'm traveling Monday. um We've got plans Friday um and Thursday afternoon. So it's like, yeah, I'm i'm not getting shit done.
00:00:35.69
Sean
are you Are you going, like, is there a reason you're going or are you just going to hang out because you like.
00:00:35.75
Andrew
So.
00:00:41.99
Andrew
um It started with like Maddie and I had kind of talked about like this pipe dream of maybe living in Mexico City one day.
00:00:49.90
Sean
Oh.
00:00:50.25
Andrew
um Part of me really wants to live in a Spanish speaking country at some point um so that I can become properly fluent because I've been taking Spanish lessons um almost every week for the last like year and some change.
00:01:04.58
Sean
OK.
00:01:05.07
Andrew
um and so And I've just always wanted to be fluent in Spanish. So this was kind of supposed to be a test run. It was a goal I set for myself this year. I was like, all right, I'm taking this year off. I'm focusing on startup shit. But I also want to make sure I still get in at least one long backpacking trip, which I did with my dad. And then I want to go to Mexico City for a couple weeks.
00:01:25.52
Sean
Oh yeah.
00:01:25.58
Andrew
um So, um yeah, the plan is to kind of work from there and try to like, try to spend some time.
00:01:37.70
Andrew
We're going to, again, take some days, have some fun, explore, but then also have some days where it's like go to a working space ah and just like live a normal life.
00:01:41.52
Sean
Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:48.19
Andrew
um I think that like the odds of moving to Mexico City are not very high anymore, like it just doesn't feel like it's probably going to fit into like our life plan.
00:02:00.44
Sean
Mm
00:02:00.83
Andrew
um But I think that I um would still strongly consider going for a longer stint at some point.
00:02:03.94
Sean
-hmm.
00:02:10.30
Andrew
So like the school I take lessons from is based in Puebla, which is, like I think, like two hours from Mexico City. So if I like it a lot and you this continues to be a goal, then I might, at some point, go spend a couple months at the school to try to become fluent.
00:02:30.28
Sean
Nice, nice. Have I ever told you that I have a pipe dreamer living in Vegas?
00:02:37.53
Andrew
Yeah, yeah, we've talked about it.
00:02:38.27
Sean
good Okay, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. Because I want to be fluid in losing all my money at the casino.
00:02:42.93
Andrew
yeah
00:02:45.71
Sean
That's cool.
00:02:45.76
Andrew
You just want DEFCON year round, huh?
00:02:48.13
Sean
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. um
00:02:51.19
Andrew
DEFCON's a lot of fun. That sounds awful. DEFCON year round sounds like the worst thing in the world.
00:02:55.66
Sean
You know, there's a new there's a new conference now that's like going to be the new new big thing, um supposedly.
00:02:59.98
Andrew
Really?
00:03:00.66
Sean
Yeah, it goes. It's the Monday right after DEFCON and Black Hat. It's called A.I. 4. It's like the new hotness because it's all like A.I. stuff. It's a corporate event. um
00:03:10.75
Andrew
Hotness outside of cybersecurity.
00:03:12.58
Sean
No, like in in cybersecurity as well.
00:03:15.31
Andrew
But but like it has broader reach than cybersecurity?
00:03:17.72
Sean
I think so. I think so.
00:03:19.29
Andrew
OK.
00:03:19.74
Sean
I think so. I haven't looked so much into it. I just know that, like, yeah. I just know that. Well, my guess is it's going to be like the black hat, but for AI, basically. um
00:03:28.63
Andrew
What was the old hotness?
00:03:30.68
Sean
Black hat.
00:03:32.12
Andrew
But like outside of cybersecurity, what was the old hotness?
00:03:32.46
Sean
Black hat artist thing. Oh, I have no idea. I don't know.
00:03:35.77
Andrew
Yeah.
00:03:36.17
Sean
ah yeah um Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:37.85
Andrew
Not your job.
00:03:41.49
Sean
Not my area of expertise. um That's cool. I didn't know you were taking Spanish lessons lesss that regularly. I had no idea.
00:03:50.11
Andrew
Yeah, although I actually haven't taken a lesson in like the past three weeks be...
-
In this episode, Sean gives a recap on shirt sales, his annual Korean BBQ dinner, and more from DEF CON. Andrew shares some feedback he got from the client project he's been working on, and dives into the early results he's seeing from running Google Ads for ChartJuice. Andrew reveals his latest mile times from his half marathon training, and the guys talk about how much impact you could make in congressional elections with some basic digital marketing chops.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00:00.75Sean
What up, what up? Long time no see.
00:00:02.71
Andrew
Yeah, how's it going? Can't wait to hear all about Defcon.
00:00:07.02
Sean
Good. I can't wait to tell you all about DEFCON. A little sniffly. Definitely have conflu.
00:00:14.04
Andrew
Concrud.
00:00:14.49
Sean
Yeah, a couple friends. A couple friends I've also got in COVID. There's, I think, all that stuff.
00:00:19.25
Andrew
Ouch.
00:00:20.33
Sean
um I'll test again later. So far, so good. But ah yeah, we'll see. um Yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been hectic.
00:00:31.74
Sean
Got back yesterday at 5am because my plane got delayed, and that was brutal. But it's the first time I've ever used my priority pass for a lounge. So that was kind of cool. um But before we get into Defcon, what have you been up to?
00:00:43.45
Andrew
pun What?
00:00:45.64
Sean
What's been, what's been going on?
00:00:47.21
Andrew
what No, no, no, no, no. We got to start with Defcon.
00:00:48.83
Sean
Okay.
00:00:49.58
Andrew
and Defcon is is the big news here.
00:00:50.65
Sean
All right, fine.
00:00:51.69
Andrew
I've got i've got some some little tattoo stuff to talk about, but ah yeah no you I want to start with Defcon.
00:00:54.82
Sean
Okay.
00:00:58.31
Andrew
and
00:00:58.87
Sean
All right, okay, fine, fine, fine, fine. Defend was good, Black Hat was good, Black, I'll start with the Black Hat. I went to the, shout out to Lucas Nelson, and he handed me to the Investors and Innovators Summit. um So first I'm going to like a summit at Black Hat.
00:01:14.64
Sean
um
00:01:14.94
Andrew
Huh.
00:01:15.56
Sean
ah ah like I got to go that to that basically like for free which is cool and so I just decided not to pay for an expo pass this year terrible idea by the way like I really want to pay for an expo pass it's 800 bucks and like I don't really like it's not like I go for sales so I kind of just go to meet our clients but probably should have paid a hundred bucks to just go like like go to a booth
00:01:25.56
Andrew
Oh no.
00:01:37.19
Andrew
Why? Why do you say that?
00:01:39.28
Sean
Um, I think I felt, okay, one, I think I felt a little bit of FOMO not seeing stuff at Black Hat and the expo floor. Um, I mean, in part didn't have like that much time to walk the floor.
00:01:53.41
Sean
Definitely met people outside of the expo floor. So it was fine overall. I think it was just felt very weird not to like go do the whole expo thing that I always done every year. Um,
00:02:05.12
Andrew
You all have never set up like a booth at Black Hat, have you?
00:02:08.15
Sean
No, not for us, only for our clients.
00:02:08.79
Andrew
Yeah.
00:02:10.64
Sean
um But I think it's just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we would never we would never like be black hat booth wise, that would be, actually, that would be very, very interesting.
00:02:10.67
Andrew
Yeah. That shit is expensive, right?
00:02:18.97
Andrew
Yeah.
00:02:21.00
Sean
I don't think black hat would ever let us do that, now that I think of that.
00:02:22.17
Andrew
Oh really?
00:02:24.51
Sean
I mean, we're not a security vendor, so it'd be very weird to do it.
00:02:26.65
Andrew
Hmm.
00:02:29.87
Sean
I don't know, it'd be weird. i like That's not that's not like a terrible idea. actually it'd be very interesting i wonder if there's something we could do there but anyway we like uh uh i didn't get to wander it which means i didn't get to like i think i think one of the things i missed out on and what's kind of sad about it is i didn't get to get them i didn't get to go pick up merchandise that we made for our clients that they printed and that was probably the biggest thing i was bummed out about
00:02:51.17
Andrew
Hmm.
00:02:56.29
Sean
Uh, but the innovator summit was super cool.
00:02:56.53
Andrew
That's a bummer.
00:02:59.57
Sean
Uh, shout out to Mike Privet and Ross. Uh, you know, they were, they were both on a panel together. That was super good.
00:03:04.65
Andrew
Cool.
00:03:06.02
Sean
Um, um, and that was fun. Def Con was Oh, so very fun. A lot of good pictures. We ah including me brought six people out this year.
00:03:15.41
Andrew
Tick.
00:03:19.17
Sean
um More like extended team members rather than like team core team members. It's been kind of like extended team members slash friends basically coming to help.
00:03:30.92
Sean
It's just a lot cheaper than flying out our design staff um from from a like
00:03:37.44
Andrew
Oh, because so that design staff can keep like doing design work for clients.
00:03:41.34
Sean
doing yeah yeah um yeah exactly um which is like i don't know it's something i like it's something it's been always the biggest issue of this like agency plus merchandise model right they're two separate businesses so flying out on...
-
Sean is exhausted because he has so many inbound emails from prospective clients he doesn't have time to answer them all. Meanwhile, Andrew is trying to buckle down and get Stripe built into ChartJuice so he can start advertising and collecting payments. Sean and Andrew talk about how the consulting project is going, and Sean has to rain Andrew in as he contemplates repositioning ChartJuice again. As a bonus, find out how fast Andrew can run a mile and why he needs to run faster.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00.90Andrew
What's up, friend?
00:00.81
Sean
Not so much. How are you?
00:04.17
Andrew
Good, we haven't talked other than Slack in like two weeks.
00:07.87
Sean
Yeah. You've been traveling.
00:11.38
Andrew
Yeah.
00:11.84
Sean
How have your trips been multiple?
00:14.99
Andrew
um Montana is fucking beautiful. Oh my god. um Glacier in particular is stunning. Was there for a friend's wedding. um And then I think right before that, my sister was in town visiting. Have we talked since then? I can't remember.
00:34.15
Sean
we talked i think i think the last time we talked was the day you i think you went to pick up your sister from the airport or yeah something like that yeah yes
00:42.08
Andrew
Okay. Cool. Cool. Yeah. So, okay. Great. Time makes no sense, but that was the week before. And then there was a week. I think. I don't know. Anyway, my sister came to visit. That was a blast. It was great to see her. Got to meet her new boyfriend. So that was fun. And then went to Glacier for one of my best friend's weddings. His name is Alex. His now wife's name is also Alex. So that was very entertaining.
01:15.17
Andrew
um We love her. We've known her for a long time. It's kind of the novelty is kind of worn off, to be honest, but but she is taking his name.
01:21.51
Sean
Got it.
01:24.95
Andrew
So they are going to be Alex Drake and Alex Drake, which is like absurd. Um, but we did a lot of hiking, did some white water rafting. Um, I saw, uh, mountain goats and big horn sheep. Um, and yeah, Glacier is just absolutely stunning. I, it reminded me that like, there's so much of this country that I have not seen that I want to see. Um, so I think next year I might. Maddie and I might make it a point to do like some sort of national park road trip or something, but we'll see.
02:04.04
Sean
nice um i've always dreamed of just going and like driving to go cross-country trip in either like an rv or just with multiple motels and just driving around and staying like a like 52 weeks in 50 52 weeks in 52 states something like that and then you're right sorry it's been a long it's been a long since you've been gone it's been a war zone here
02:18.26
Andrew
There are 50 states, but
02:31.01
Andrew
Oh no, what's happening? Why are you so tired?
02:36.01
Sean
um i count california as two states just for the record and porta rico just just before but i'm not yeah i am not smarter than a fifth grader for what it's worth so um anyway uh i don't know just like you
02:43.80
Andrew
Puerto Rico should be a state, but yeah.
02:55.44
Sean
and You know that thing where they're like, you'll know when you have product market fixed or bang on your door. It's like, have feeling like you have service market fit and people are banging on my door and we say yes to things. and We say no to some things, but like whenever, you know, just, we have a lot of clients and I don't have, we have.
03:12.22
Andrew
I understand.
03:17.00
Sean
Barely amount the amount of people to get all of it done with all the things that are going on.
03:20.77
Andrew
Yeah.
03:23.63
Sean
um um
03:26.14
Andrew
So you're in, you're fully in one of the agency peaks where there's just like too much work and you're happy that there's too much work.
03:34.68
Sean
Yeah.
03:36.60
Andrew
So you're finally not stressed about like paying the bills and making ends meet, but instead that's replaced with doing the work and making sure the work is done to a high standard because, you know, when there's lots of work to go around, it's easy for things to slip through the cracks and yeah.
03:42.32
Sean
Right.
03:49.41
Sean
Yeah. Yeah.
03:52.74
Sean
Yeah. But there's more money in our bank account than ever.
03:54.51
Andrew
Yeah.
03:56.04
Sean
So, you know, that's, that's really cool.
03:59.49
Andrew
Yeah, it really is.
03:59.93
Sean
Um, yeah.
04:00.84
Andrew
This is the thing about agencies is it does feel like you're always trading one type of stress for another. It's either you're like, fuck, I need to find clients. Or it's like, fuck, I need to get this work done for clients. um
04:13.50
Sean
Yeah. I do really think like,
04:18.39
Sean
Like I think I think creative agencies also like creative service providers are also an extra level of like because it's objectives right it's not like I have a friend who runs an MSP or an it's MSP sort of shop, but it's very like those that sort of work is very like oh you get the green checkmark because because the scanner no longer detects an issue so you're good, it's good to go.
04:41.89
Andrew
Yeah, the flip side is like people don't usually call us in the middle of the night because they're like design got hacked into.
04:41.82
Sean
you can like
04:48.71
Sean
You're right. You're right. You're right.
04:50.45
Andrew
So that's, that's like, Oh yeah, that's.
04:50.52
Sean
We do manage websites. We do. Weflo did go down the other day, and that was my nice slide blew the fuck up.
04:54.91
Andrew
hu
-
Season 2: Episode 5
In this episode Sean talks about being buried in client work at Miscreants and how to design trendy clothing that gets people hyped. Meanwhile, Andrew talks about making slow progress on ChartJuice and trying to fight the temptation to become an SEO content goblin.Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...Cider: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:02.21Sean
So where are you up to? You're late.
00:04.34
Andrew
Uh, I was, I'm so behind on writing my newsletter for this month. Um,
00:11.16
Sean
Because you're not using AI to help you anymore.
00:14.65
Andrew
Dick.
00:15.61
Sean
Sorry, sorry.
00:16.52
Andrew
Um, yeah, I just like, honestly I've been busy with, uh, with consulting work for somebody. I think that's, that's what I'm going to blame it on.
00:26.47
Sean
i it is his fault i would blame it on him as well he's made a lot of poor decisions recently we player
00:34.31
Andrew
Yeah, I've been busy with consulting work and then we were like, um we were up north for ah the fourth for a week. um And so there was like a day where I thought about trying to write it there. We had kind of a rainy day and I was like, I'm just going to fuck around on my phone and read a book instead.
00:49.38
Sean
I, it is his fault.
00:53.84
Andrew
um Which was a choice I don't really regret, but now I'm like,
00:55.16
Sean
I would blame it on him as well. He's made a lot of poor decisions recently.
00:59.72
Andrew
uh like two weeks behind getting a newsletter out so trying to trying to get a piece written about how I validated church use and like just how I got to the point where I was willing to make the investment in the initial MVP because when I say validated I don't know if the product is going to work yet we're a ways off from that but
01:07.48
Sean
Cool.
01:24.03
Andrew
validated it enough to have confidence building an MVP.
01:27.50
Sean
Cool.
01:27.60
Andrew
So writing an essay about that and then ah need to put together like the newsletter portion with some links and stuff. But yeah, completely lost track of time. I did the thing I do where I like procrastinated for 30 minutes and then started writing again 30 minutes before our podcast and then looked up and it was like four twelve and we were supposed to start at four o'clock. So
01:50.67
Sean
I do find that like that level of like crunch time is what really snaps me into flow real quick.
01:55.08
Andrew
Oh, absolutely.
01:56.39
Sean
Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad. I'm glad we could do that for you.
02:01.80
Andrew
Honestly, like, that's part of why we wanted to start the podcast again, right?
02:05.41
Sean
For sure.
02:05.71
Andrew
Or at least for me, I i needed, like, I need some social forcing functions to make me do shit.
02:07.01
Sean
Yeah.
02:13.01
Sean
Yeah. Yeah.
02:14.19
Andrew
If I have to give you an update every week, then I have to have an update every week.
02:14.27
Sean
hundred
02:20.36
Sean
Yeah. I mean, like you tweeted out something about us writing and I was like, fuck. And I started writing. I haven't done it last week, but ah since like, since you tweeted about it, but it at least like made me attempt to put words to the paper for a couple of days. So that was pretty cool.
02:38.93
Andrew
Nice. Yeah, we got to actually we got to decide on an actual an actual bet or something. But I don't want to do that right the second because I have too many other things I'm trying to do right this second.
02:46.30
Sean
Yeah.
02:52.07
Sean
For sure.
02:52.29
Andrew
I'm like, I don't want to take on a writing bet.
02:54.63
Sean
ah sure
02:55.72
Andrew
Maybe maybe in a ah month or two.
02:59.59
Sean
um How's your trip by the way, you went through a cabin.
03:03.82
Andrew
Yeah, Trip was great. um My girlfriend's aunt and uncle have this amazing place on Drummond Island, which is this cool island off the tip of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. If anyone listening has never been to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which you probably haven't because most people haven't, it's like one of the most beautiful parts of the entire country. like i didn't really hear about it until I came here and moved to Detroit. And now it's one of my favorite places in the world. It's so fucking beautiful. The Great Lakes are like
03:38.57
Andrew
turquoise blue. theres The trees feel like you're in the Pacific Northwest, um but the weather is way better than the Pacific Northwest. It's chilly enough in the middle of July that you need like a sweatshirt and jeans at night, um but it's warm enough to swim during the day.
03:53.37
Sean
whoa
03:57.01
Andrew
It's it's a magical place.
03:57.65
Sean
Whoa.
03:59.70
Andrew
um And I felt like a ah true digital nomad because I had I felt like I had perfected my my um transportable work setup. I had my laptop. my iPad, which they have made iPad mirroring so good and so easy now.
04:17.24
Sean
Yeah.
04:18.21
Andrew
I haven't used it in years, but it's like it's great now.
04:18.30
Sean
Yeah.
04:21.49
Andrew
And then I was using Starlink at Maddie's aunt and uncle's place. And the so the Wi-Fi was great. And I was just like, holy shit, with like that new Starlink Mini, you could have an amazing multi-screen set up that you could put in a backpack and it would be light as hell.
04:42.70
Sean
I thought a lot about what you said about the Starlink this weekend, by th...
-
Season 2: Episode 4
Did you know AI really loves the word delve? Sean and Andrew can't help starting the pod off with a little more AI talk. Then they get into Sean's new product he's working on. Meanwhile Andrew is putting aside his IDE and starting to shift his focus to marketing and selling ChartJuice. He talks about using Flow.club to focus and setting a goal of doing two hours of deep work every day. Sean asks Andrew if he would sell ChartJuice if someone made him an offer tomorrow. And Sean and Andrew talk about working together on a new client project!
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...Cider: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00.77Sean
What's up? What's up? How you doing?
00:03.03
Andrew
Not bad. What happened to our theme music? I thought you were supposed to be coming in every week with a new theme song.
00:09.35
Sean
So, you know, it's actually a little bit harder to use. than i Yeah.
00:14.64
Andrew
Isn't this the classic story of all of these AI tools is it's like, it seems great at first glance. And then you start trying to really use it for something and you start going, oh, this is so much work to get out of this, what I want to get out of it.
00:28.82
Sean
Yeah, 100%. I think like it doesn't have it doesn't have the levers I would want. you know I can't like dial a voice. I can't like switch. I have to use a prompt to change. like Do I want a male singer or a female singer? Do I want it to be you know louder here? I can't i can't say like I want to be louder here or different here. I feel like that.
00:49.46
Andrew
You need a cringe dial. Let me crank the cringe all the way down to zero.
00:51.24
Sean
Yeah. Yeah, i don't think i don't the thing is AI doesn't know what that is, which is crazy.
00:55.60
Andrew
AI doesn't understand cringe. AI is by default cringe. That's that's why we still have jobs.
00:58.85
Sean
You know?
01:01.89
Sean
um I've been looking at some other AI things and God.
01:07.62
Sean
which AI really likes the word Delve. Did you know that?
01:10.59
Andrew
Oh, interesting. I have not noticed that.
01:11.63
Sean
Yeah. I think Paul Graham had a tweet or something to say like that's like the one of the biggest indicators that someone's seeing AI and they never saw it and then until I finally like um I was pulling a transcription out and then trying to get a summary just to see how any of that works and the amount of times it uses Delve is astounding and
01:31.86
Andrew
That's fascinating.
01:32.63
Sean
There's nothing I can't, i you know, once it's like a wrapper around whatever sort of AI tool, I can't tell it to, you know, at that point, I can't even change the prompt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um.
01:42.85
Andrew
By the way, I really want to try out a couple of different transcription tools to see if any any of them can do a better job with our voices because Zincaster is not terrible, but it's a little bit of a mess.
01:45.78
Sean
Hmm.
01:57.05
Sean
Hmm.
01:57.49
Andrew
I do think the, Post edit transcription is usually better.
02:03.85
Sean
Mm-hmm.
02:04.19
Andrew
like I see a pretty noticeable improvement from pre-edit and post-edit, so that's kind of interesting.
02:06.81
Sean
Mm-hmm.
02:09.69
Andrew
But I'm really curious, like what if Podscan actually has the best the best transcriptions?
02:10.71
Sean
Maybe.
02:14.46
Sean
maybe
02:15.85
Andrew
Or yeah know maybe Transistor's new transcription tool will be better because that's all they're doing?
02:16.09
Sean
Maybe.
02:21.50
Sean
Yeah.
02:25.24
Andrew
I don't know.
02:25.29
Sean
Is there a job to be good at that?
02:27.00
Andrew
Yeah, I guess it's Zincaster's job to get that right as much as Transistor's job. but um It might even be the same person powering both.
02:31.87
Sean
Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Um,
02:37.63
Andrew
It might be the same tool under the hood.
02:39.95
Sean
um
02:40.45
Andrew
That would be funny.
02:40.75
Sean
so, so this podcast, uh, for a client, I was running it through, I tried swell AI by, I don't remember his last name, Cody something, um. The draft horse, now he's doing swell, um and I tried to script again. um Interestingly, I don't know what's going on with swell, but like so far, that's the best transcript I got back. um Yeah, so that's pretty good. um Okay, no, no, no, no.
03:08.87
Andrew
I also saw every, do you know them? ah Nathan used to be Bashaw and now I think it's Basquez. He was at Product Hunt and then at Gimlet and um then I think co-founded every with
03:25.58
Sean
Cool.
03:31.51
Andrew
Dan Schipler, if that, I might have that name right. It's kind of interesting. They were doing bundled newsletters. So taking different newsletter creators and creating a unified brand for them to publish under and then offering a bundled price where the creators split the revenue and they're now taking.
03:43.65
Sean
Cool.
03:47.29
Sean
cool
03:52.41
Andrew
that bundle concept to a new extreme and launching software products. And the only way to pay for their software products is by buying a bundle, a subscription to every. So for one price, you get access to all of their newsletters and their software products. And their first one was Lex, an AI powered document editor where you could
04:18.67
Sean
Okay. You use that, yeah.
04:22.06
Andrew
I, yeah, I've used it a little bit. It's, it's pretty nifty. And then it se...
-
Season 2: Episode 3
It's a Small Efforts Double Header! We were late getting this episode out, so we decided to go ahead and publish two weeks of episodes at once. In this episode Andrew is coming straight from a tattoo session, and talks about fighting bugs with ChartJuice. Meanwhile, Sean has gotten over 300 APPLICATIONS to his open job post, almost all from Dribbble. And he previews the consumer SaaS/community he's building on the side. Andrew and Sean discuss the strategy behind the new ConvertKit rebrand, and finally debate whether AI-generated book notes can be a good growth strategy for Andrew's personal blog.
Differences between serverless functions and edge functions according to Claude:
Execution Location: Serverless functions run on the cloud provider's servers centralized in large data centers, while edge functions run on edge servers distributed across multiple locations closer to the user.Latency: Edge functions have lower latency compared to serverless functions due to their proximity to the user.Scalability and resource constraints: Serverless functions scale automatically based on demand, while edge functions have a more limited scalability. Edge servers generally have less compute power and storage compared to cloud servers.Use Cases: Serverless functions are better suited for compute-intensive tasks, while edge functions are more efficient for data processing and content delivery near the user.Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00:00.69Sean
What's up?
00:00:02.02
Andrew
Not much, just got back from a little tattoo session, got some fresh ink.
00:00:06.48
Sean
Very cool. What did what you get?
00:00:08.97
Andrew
Uh, got a piece of flash. So I was at a fundraiser for, um, a friend's, a friend was organizing the fundraiser. He's part of this group called prism, um, that raises money to support, uh, GSAs in schools, which used to stand for gay straight alliances.
00:00:19.32
Sean
Cool.
00:00:27.96
Andrew
Now I think stand for gender sexuality alliances.
00:00:31.21
Sean
Okay.
00:00:31.48
Andrew
Um, so he's part of this group prism. They were doing a fundraiser and they had a raffle as part of the fundraiser.
00:00:38.18
Sean
Hmm.
00:00:38.43
Andrew
And they were raffling off three flash tattoos. Um, so it was like a design and you could put. ticket in, and if you won, you would get that tattoo. And um I like two of them. And so I put a ticket in each one and was like, well, let fate decide. And I got picked. And so I went and got this cool vase with, it's like kind of an abstract vase with monstera leaves sticking out.
00:01:04.13
Sean
Yeah.
00:01:06.90
Andrew
And it's my first leg tattoo, got it on my thigh. um it will be very visible when I wear shorts.
00:01:14.20
Sean
Hell yeah.
00:01:14.51
Andrew
um So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:15.18
Sean
Five inch the blue velvet shorts.
00:01:18.18
Andrew
When I wear my short shorts, which is all I wear.
00:01:19.60
Sean
Nice.
00:01:20.58
Andrew
So, um yeah, I'm pretty into it.
00:01:20.75
Sean
Nice.
00:01:23.87
Andrew
It was cool. This was my first, I guess it was my second flash tattoo. um But the artist, she was great. Her name was Ali Gostella, I think. Super chill, super welcoming, had a great time, made the experience fantastic.
00:01:40.32
Sean
Hmm.
00:01:41.67
Andrew
And one of the cool parts was she really was stoked about this design, which was so much fun because she was having fun tattooing it and was really hyped and excited about it. And that made it more fun and made me more excited about getting it. And so it was just like just good energy.
00:01:55.53
Sean
Nice.
00:01:58.07
Sean
I like it. Congrats.
00:01:59.08
Andrew
Yeah.
00:01:59.96
Sean
Yeah, congrats on waiting.
00:02:01.33
Andrew
Thanks. I'm I'm stoked. i'm I'm really excited about it.
00:02:04.48
Sean
Cool.
00:02:04.66
Andrew
I will show you after the podcast because it will not get podcast content.
00:02:08.82
Sean
That's true. That's true. We are, we are not a video podcast yet. We tried, but yeah.
00:02:13.67
Andrew
We can be. I guess whenever we just got to commit to doing another thing, which is not like us.
00:02:18.46
Sean
Yeah.
00:02:21.08
Andrew
Well, and is also like us. You know what I mean?
00:02:23.70
Sean
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure.
00:02:26.97
Andrew
Yeah. So what's up with you?
00:02:29.04
Sean
Um, last week was brutal. Last week was a couple, a couple of our folks are out on like PTO and then some folks got sick.
00:02:31.81
Andrew
Yeah.
00:02:36.01
Sean
Um, uh, yeah. Uh, so I didn't sleep much and that was, that was exciting, but we're back to it.
00:02:44.58
Andrew
Oh, that's rough.
00:02:45.14
Sean
You know, I'm on eight hours, so extra energetic today. Um, I mean, Oh,
00:02:52.52
Andrew
How is hiring going?
00:02:55.23
Sean
dribble is not dead.
00:02:56.62
Andrew
Oh, really?
00:02:56.72
Sean
dribble not that hot take dribble like yeah yeah hiring our type form
00:03:00.41
Andrew
For hiring designers specifically? Yeah.
00:03:06.01
Sean
So we were going to do we're going to do like an online, we're going to put a form on our website at first and then I was like, I don't i ...
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Season 2: Episode 2
It's a Small Efforts Double Header! We were late getting this episode out, so we decided to go ahead and publish two weeks of episodes at once. In this episode Andrew talks about quietly pushing ChartJuice live, and raves about his new favorite podcast. Meanwhile Sean drops some knowledge about the intricacies of swag supply chains, and the guys discuss the trap of being an expert beginner vs a true expert. Finally, Sean talk about a leadership retreat he's going on soon.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00.00Sean Sun
Yeah, hey doing sorry late.
00:00.64
Andrew
All good man I've just been over here sipping on my in Zony Happy as can be.
00:06.41
Sean Sun
Ah, there you good there Good How's your week been. What's you been up to.
00:13.49
Andrew
Um, not a bad week. Um, let's see I haven't been hella productive this week but I've been making steady progress. So um.
00:29.64
Andrew
Think this happened after last week's pod. Um, so I sent out chart juice for feedback to a small group of friends you um, awesome price Greg um, handful of people and.
00:49.48
Andrew
My friends are super generous and so a bunch of people took the time to create an account and give me some feedback and a lot of feedback I got was like hey this is cool. Um, you know Austin understandably spent a bunch time on the ux and was like hey you know you should left a line. Your text anytime you have more than a line or two because it becomes harder to read when it's center aligned and I was like dope didn't know that that's a really helpful rule of thumb. Thanks for telling me um and then like Greg um in very Greg fashion pointed out. Hey on the signup form you should really have a couple of statements about the value props and like what people are going to get out of this to help encourage them to finish the signup process which is very Greg always thinking from the perspective of the user and thinking about like how do we optimize this. Um, so that was super helpful. My friend Kevin who is one of the original partners in crit and a super talented engineer took a very engineer's approach to it and he was like hey just so you know if you put in a ah. Width of greater than a hundred thousand pixels it breaks and I was like cool I don't care and like he obviously knew I wouldn't care but you know took took a very engineer approach to it and.
02:09.31
Sean Sun
Yeah, yeah.
02:19.44
Sean Sun
Um, yeah.
02:21.86
Andrew
Ah, like looked for the edge cases the weird extreme edge cases. The other one was like if you add more than 21 elements to a pie chart then the legend gets really wonky like create. Um, so.
02:39.40
Sean Sun
I think that's a hold on I just want to point out I don't think I think that's a feature not a bug I think no one should be adding 21 elements to a pie chart like a pizza doesn't have 21 slices yeah um
02:41.61
Andrew
Yeah.
02:49.77
Andrew
I Love it? Yeah yeah, yeah, we we intentionally make your chart look like shit past a certain point because like why stop.
02:56.87
Sean Sun
Right? right? Exactly There's a hidden feature that if you make it look like it'll all turn brown and.
03:03.80
Andrew
I mean the good thing to do would be if you use more than 8 elements or something in your pie chart. We just automatically start combining the smallest ones that would be nifty but um, but my favorite piece of advice came from my friend ramy um, who is an indie hacker.
03:13.12
Sean Sun
Um.
03:21.69
Andrew
Um, based out of the Uk and repeat founder has a few successful small products under his belt and his advice was basically good enough ship it and I was like that's you're so fucking right? so.
03:33.50
Sean Sun
Nice.
03:41.60
Andrew
Um, yeah, the first half of this week was shipping it so chart juice is now technically live I'm calling it a soft launch because I haven't really talked about it being live much at all yet I'm not being super public about it. Um I just linked up.
03:46.26
Sean Sun
Um, okay, um.
04:00.70
Andrew
The buttons on the marketing website to the actual app so that you can get to the app from the marketing website and then I made some small updates yesterday to the marketing website adding screenshots and a little bit more information about how it how it works. To try to make it a little bit clear what the product does because I had several people like hit the marketing website and go so is this like chart Js for emails and I was like I mean kind of but it's like a layer above that. Um, so I added some some screenshots and like a little bit more information without. While trying not to change too much because I still want to test kind of that original marketing copy and see how well it works. Um, but yeah, so chart juice is now live I am spending the rest of this week focused on trying to get billing working. Um, so i.
04:45.97
Sean Sun
Um, right.
04:57.83
Andrew
If you go sign up for an account right now it is free until I get billing implemented um and once I get billing implemented I'll I'll find some way to grandfather in any existing accounts with like an extra long free trial Probably um.
05:11.20
Sean Sun
Right? right? So Andrew's giving away lifetime access to anyone who signs up right now.
05:16.66
Andrew
Andrew's giving away short to your mas if your life only you know continues for another three or four weeks then yeah lifetime access.
05:25.31
Sean Sun
If you plan on dying soon. Sign up for George ah, that's the ad there you go is converting ad.
05:31.90
Andrew
Ah, perfect ship it so working on getting billing um, integrated which I've just been dragging my feet a little bit. It's just boring. It's like it's standard. Ah. Stuff I Just got to hook up some webhooks and Yada Yada Um, and then the other thing I need to do that's kind of important is I need to actually test using our embed code in a transactional email which is like somewhat. Hard to do since I don't have an existing Saas product with existing data. Um, So yeah, I'll just I'll probably just fudge the data. But um I need to send out some test emails. Um, and then I want to record a demo video of like the entire end-to-end process.
06:24.35
Sean Sun
Right...
-
Andrew and Sean are back for Season 2! In Season 2 they'll get transparent about the highs and lows of building their businesses (with plenty of goofing around too). Same concept, new businesses.
In this episode we recap WHERE THE HELL WE'VE BEEN FOR TWO YEARS. Plus we talk about the projects we're working on now, how to market and validate Andrew's new startup, and Sean's search for founder friends.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
Transcript:
00:00.73
Sean
All right? don't scream this time. Maybe I'll cut that front part out. Um, okay, take 4 episode 1 season 2 small efforts like no see oh yeah, me too.00:11.35
Andrew
Ah, but what's up man Glad to be back. Ah back on the pod with you.00:18.76
Sean
Too I'm excited to be doing this again. It's been a fun 6 ones of a dry run. Um, so ah.00:22.92
Andrew
It wouldn't be us if we didn't record for six months and then finally describe decide to scrap all of those recordings and just say fuck it. Let's go live or as close to live as we can get.00:32.53
Sean
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's literally how I've built the michigans website every single iteration actually I spent months on it and then I'm like fuck. And I just do it in the black in my hotel room right? before blackhead starts in a day like yeah, good enough I don't care if it's not perfect. Um, what's been going on. Why have we disappeared what happened you know what happened to season 1 I'm sure everyone wants to know.01:02.54
Andrew
Ah, yeah, um, yeah, it's been 2 years almost to the day like pretty close to it. So um, we were running the podcast before and had set it up in a way to be like.01:05.75
Sean
Our 11 listeners.01:22.00
Andrew
Fairly highly highly produced and um in a way that required as little involvement from us after recording as possible so we had an awesome producer and an editing team who would take care of everything for us. Um, but that also meant it was. A little bit expensive to create um and then I went and sold my business and that meant that half of our funding disappeared. So I sold crit almost two years ago exactly um, sold the company to.01:47.45
Sean
Hell yeah, a girl. Yeah, he did.01:58.77
Andrew
Of our longtime clients grayyno which was an awesome experience. I still haven't really written about the experience of going through this sale process. It might be hard to do now I've I'm sure I've already forgotten a lot. Um, but it was it was a really. Really fascinating experience to go through I think our sale was really pretty easy and pretty fast compared to a lot of people because we already knew each other really well um, and structured it in a way that that due diligence was pretty simple. So um, yeah, sold crit two years ago02:23.90
Sean
A 502:36.57
Andrew
Then went to work at graynoy for a year um so learned a ton in that time about security and technology and what it's like to be part of a larger team as hilarious as it is a 50 person team is like by far the biggest team I'd ever been a part of.02:53.75
Sean
Yeah.02:55.78
Andrew
Um, and ah learned about management and it was like a year of speed learning. Um, it was really interesting. Had a lot of fun. Um, and then ultimately got fired which was kind of. Ah, shock and kind of not a shock. Um, ultimately I think it just wasn't as good a fit on either side as either of us were were hoping for um, still have a ton of friends there and still am rooting for them all to be successful. Um, you know it's funny I've mentioned that I got fired to. Entrepreneur friends and to like non-onpreneur friends and non-onreneur friends are generally like oh my god are you? okay like what's ah, what's wrong. What can I do to help and then all my entrepreneur friends are like yeah I kind of expected that we're just ah.03:46.18
Sean
Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.03:52.10
Andrew
I Guess once you're like an entrepreneur through in through you kind of become unhireable but not in the way you thought just unhireable in the sense that like you become a bad employee or don't want to don't want to work for anyone? Um, so um.03:56.64
Sean
Um, yeah, yeah.04:00.33
Sean
Yeah, yeah.04:10.71
Andrew
Yeah, shocking and not a shock. Um, but ultimately like 2 really good things came out of bad experience which were um one when I was at crit my fear. The thing that kept me up at night. Was often this idea of like what if our clients all disappear and we run out of money and we have to lay off the entire team that was like the failure mode that that was constantly eating away at me constantly like this pit of stress in the middle of my stomach. Um, and then once I sold the company and joined grey noise. Thought that fear would go away. It didn't it just morphed and the new fear. The new failure mode was what if I get fired. Um, and so when I ultimately did it was this kind of positive forcing function to face this deep fear of failure that I had. Um, and you know went through it and was like oh shit I'm okay and the people around me don't actually think any worse of me. In fact, they all are being super supportive and kind and like are very understanding and and then I had time to make a podcast to get.05:20.70
Sean
So yeah, and then you had time to do a podcast again. So it's been great.05:28.17
Andrew
Um, and and that actually was the second positive thing. So the the second really positive thing was that it gave me the nudge to take a long extended sabbatical. Um, so after that I went and fulfilled a lifelong dream and walked across Spain on the camino de santiago. Um. Spent two months over in Europe um, that was incredible I've written about that on my on my website a little bithitteraskins dot com um, and then I I came back from that and had time to sit down and just think about what I really wanted to do and um. Decided that I wanted to get back into startups and wanted to try to build a new product and do do it the way that I had always wanted to do it which was bootstrapped calm slow growth. Um, and ah, you know, but do something that. You know, high margin. Um, try to basically build my perfect job. My dream job my my dream business. Um, so I started working on ad at the beginning of this year worked with a partner for a little while who um, ultimately had to step away for some personal reasons. Um. Which then launched me into the process of learning to code again which has been really cool. Um, kind of surprised myself with how much I have enjoyed that and liked that. Um and so that was a few months ago that I I started learning to code and and building the product.07:05.74
Andrew
Myself and I'm now ah at a point where I've got a functional prototype and I'm you know probably going to be launching in a week or 2 probably 2 two weeks would be my guess. So um, yeah.07:19.46
Sean
I Hell yeah.07:24.27
Andrew
Last time we recorded I was running an agency and now I am getting ready to launch a new Saas company. So yeah, and so now that's ah now we're on season 2 Um, so yeah, tell me tell me ah tell me and tell our 3 listeners.07:29.51
Sean
Yeah, act... -
(0:24) This is officially a rock climbing podcast
(8:15) Andrew and Sean's gardens have attracted guests
(12:59) Sean lowkey needs another break
(25:10) Miscreants is doing a collection drop at DEFCON
(29:56) Rebranding is like creating a religion but without Kool-Aid
Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
-
(0:27) There’s a parallel universe where Andrew’s life revolves around photography
(8:34) Sean is suspicious as hell
(17:31) The real reason why so many CEOs are super fucking into meditation
(26:31) Andrew and Sean’s bi-weekly book club chat
(34:29) Your lawyer career doesn’t mean shit if you can’t work on your streetwear brand
Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Sublime Security: https://sublimesecurity.com/ Email Rep IO: https://emailrep.io/ Ted at Sentinel IPS: @tedgruenloh Margins by Ranjan Roy and Can Duruk: https://www.readmargins.com/ Leave Me Alone: https://leavemealone.app/ SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com/ Melissa Perri’s book: Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value Bionic reading: https://bionic-reading.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
-
(0:25) The difference between Andrew and Sean is that Sean is extra delusional
(6:27) Sales feels like throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks
(17:23) Either the channels depend on the day, or different channels work during different times
(24:32) Giving constraints encourages creativity, not stifles it
(34:21) Andrew and Sean are both traveling and bad at bowling
Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Traction: https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
-
(0:22) Getting experience is all about putting in the reps
(9:09) It’s easy judging a designer by their portfolio. A PM by their resume? Not so much.
(18:58) It’s mad hard building a leadership team
(27:12) Commission vs. Salary: We’re undecided on which one’s better
(37:03) If Krit didn’t exist, Andrew would definitely have an SEO marketing agency
Thanks for listening to Small Efforts, a podcast collaboration between Krit and Miscreants. Shoutout to the Hatch Team and Mary Vuong for producing and editing.
Links:
Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/Chartkit: https://www.chartkit.io/Krit: https://www.krit.com/ Miscreants: https://www.miscreants.co/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunHatch Team: https://www.hatch.team/Pyramid of Success: http://www.coachwooden.com/pyramid-of-success Traction: https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837 Entreprenurial Operation System: https://www.eosworldwide.com/ Luke Stephens: @hakluke HackerContent: https://hackercontent.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.
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