Episoder
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“Ready to go ten rounds?” Nancy asked Sarah, when Sarah asked her to watch Emilia Pérez, a Spanish-language musical for which there is no shortage of agitation on both the right and the left. Trans activists hate it, Ben Shapiro called it garbage, Mexican film goers are apparently asking for their money back. And yet, the movie got a whopping 13 Oscar nominations. What gives?
Nancy reluctantly watched Emilia Pérez, and — was completely surprised. Her reaction was, in fact, very similar to Sarah’s. (That’s why Sarah wanted her to see it.) Is this wild, unconventional movie a triumph, a “glittering disaster,” a “trans Mrs. Doubtfire”? The answer is all of the above.
Also discussed:
* “Happy Monday!”
* Nancy fat-shames the poor widdle groundhog
* New coinage: “Western Time”
* Sarah’s pre-flight soul inventory is arduous
* “The denial of death shapes most people’s lives.”
* “House of Strauss” has the best theme music (and, ahem, the best guests)
* General Hospital, remembered
* We hate lecture films
* Why Emilia Perez makes sense as an opera
* Selena Gomez is like watching fourteen cupcakes shimmy around in a dress
* Johanne Sacreblue!
* The Pope version of Survivor
* Kieran Culkan is a bad-ass
Plus, Nancy writes a nice essay, Sarah is up for an award, what the hell is Groundhog’s Day, and much more!
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Sarah and Nancy discuss the Atlantic story “The Anti-Social Century,” about how much of modern life is being lived in isolation. They talk about eating alone, parasocial relationships, and why Sarah feels completely nailed by the data point that “the typical female pet owner spends more time actively engaged with her pet than she spends in face-to-face contact with friends of her own species.”
Also discussed:
* Okay, we’ll talk about that thing Elon did
* Is the blue/gold dress the metaphor of our times?
* Trump is the candidate Americans built brick-by-brick
* Who did Nancy write-in for president 2024? This guy…
* Gotta agree with Sarah’s old roommate on the Kleenex thing
* Shark Tank love
* McLuhan: “Every augmentation is an amputation”
* Sarah finds listening to Jon Ronson is “deeply edifying”
* Nancy is impressed — again! — with the concept “skin hunger”
* Someone admits to watching Rock of Love
* Character.ai: Let us know if you’re using it!
* Late-breaking Oscar nominations
Plus, the generosity of David Lynch’s dreamscapes, “let me sell you a solution to a problem you didn’t know you had,” Sarah requests you send her postcards stating your favorite hm-hm-hm, and much more!
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Manglende episoder?
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Reading Noah Rothman’s new piece in Commentary, “A Clockwork Blue: How the Left Has Come to Excuse Away and Embrace Political Violence,” I felt as though he had written it just for me; this, because he called to account institutions and individuals who proclaim violence from the left justified, a trend I found maddening when I covered 150+ nights of violent street protests in Portland in 2020.
And about that: How long did Rothman think that violence would have been explained away had it been committed by the right?
"Hours," he said.
In a discussion that calls out violence on all sides, Rothman addresses the roots of political barbarism, how the power of crowds can lead well-adjusted people to commit orgies of violence, the juvenile cop-out of making avatars of people in order to justify brutality against them, and some especial opprobrium for the intellectual and spiritual poverty that makes a hero of Luigi Mangione, who, weeks after murdering UnitedHealth CEO Brian Thompson, was given a round of applause by an SNL audience.
“The point of this piece is a call for political consistency,” said Rothman. “Only when we have consistency will we see a decline in political violence.”
Noah Rothman is a senior writer for National Review. He is the author of Unjust: Social Justice and the Unmaking of America (Regnery, 2019) and The Rise of the New Puritans: Fighting Back Against Progressives’ War on Fun (HarperCollins, 2022). His work has been published in USA Today, the Washington Examiner, the New York Post, the New York Times, the Atlantic, the Washington Post, and elsewhere. Follow on Twitter/X at NoahCRothman
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Nancy and Sarah dive into the messy New York magazine cover story on literary superstar Neil Gaiman, accused of sexual assault by multiple women. The story broke over the summer in a British podcast — which Nancy and Sarah listened to, and much preferred — and they zero in on the story’s different presentations and ethical tangles. It’s a tale of celebrity, status-seeking, boundarilessness, and cruelty. But is it criminal? Let’s discuss.
Also discussed:
* Joe Biden made a speech
* Bathtub as flytrap
* If I serve you a steak, and you write to tell me you loved it, then logically do I:
* Serve you another steak
* Assume you don’t really like steak and only told me you did so we can keep hanging out
* Report me because I pressed the steak on you while knowing you hated steak
* What does logic have to do with it?
* To be clear: We are anti-vagina whipping
* Do women want sexual freedom, to be protected class — or both?
* Please don’t trot out experts to support your insupportable point
* Nancy knee-jerks over journalism
* Is consent really black and white? And if so, why has it spawned five million think pieces and hours of podcasts like this?
* Jon Ronson puts Sarah to sleep but “in a loving way.”
* “If my literary hero appeared to me when I was 22 when I happened to be hot and not a binge-drinking chubby lonely-heart watching Real World marathons while hungover on the futon …”
Plus, Sarah hates the “cup of tea” consent video, some love for fact-checkers, the 1-minute video that’s made Nancy laugh 20 times, and much more!
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Be warned, beloveds: Lots of sex talk here; hide the kiddies and the squeamish. Also! Due to some ghost in the machine, our last episode, “Meghan Daum on What We've Lost in the Los Angeles Wildfires,” may have included a paywall that we did not put there. It is free for all, and it’s fixed now.
No worries if you haven’t seen “Babygirl,” the erotic drama wherein a tightly wound CEO with an Instagram-perfect life (Nicole Kidman) gets down and dirty with a much younger male intern (Harris Dickinson). Sarah and Nancy are discussing a lot more than just a movie: The nature of female desire, why domination fantasies are so taboo, and whether masochism is threaded into the female sexual experience. (Sweeping generalizations alert!)
Also discussed:
* Nancy’s name makes a comeback and she can’t take it
* Consent does not line up with desire
* The thing about negging is …
* Don Draper, feminist icon?
* All hail Showgirls, the best-worst movie ever
* Nancy likes to wrestle
* The orgasm gap
* Why does a man buy a woman a steak?
* Nancy Friday’s My Secret Garden
* Define “hypergamy”
Plus, Nancy picks an “obscure book” for her hotbox only to find it has 105,000 reviews on Amazon, a male companion robot that looks like Harry Dean Stanton, “Freedom for Scotland!” and much more
Are there heretofore unexperienced pleasures when you become a paid subscriber? One way to find out
We might be paywalling this episode, but we’re not monsters…
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Essayist and Unspeakable pod host Meghan Daum joins Nancy and Sarah to talk about the worst fires ever recorded in Southern California — what it was like to learn that her house in Altadena burned down, the blame game that both sides are playing, the surreal celebrity angle, and why you don’t actually have to tweet.
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This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com
“I am still waiting for my bathrobe, and until you give it to me, I am going to be forced to do this podcast in the nude,” Kat Rosenfield tells Nancy and Sarah, who really need to move on this gift they keep promising her for repeat appearances. Kat is here to discuss her recent Free Press column on Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, “a turducken of a story” about alleged misbehavior and creative control on the set of It Ends With Us. The stars’ dueling legal documents lit up social media over the holidays, but it’s … confusing. Kat sees it less as a “he said/she said," and more of a battle of PR narratives.
Also discussed:
* But who is Colleen Hoover?
* “I have a series of really hot takes…”
* Justin Baldoni: sexy or nah?
* Nancy likes a dad bod
* Is asking someone what they weigh “fat-shaming”?
* “I have been taken on a journey of eroticism and repulsion, and that’s what I count on you for…”
* Shades of Depp-Heard
* Megan Twohey strikes again
* “Astro-turfed pseudo-consensus”; rolls right off the tongue
* How to pronounce “simulacram”?
* Reflexive outrage: what is it good for?
* Wait, that’s not Markle’s kitchen?
* Ascribing a richness of interior life to people that they neither have nor deserve
Plus, dry cake, Nancy’s failing face, a movie trailer that gives all the cringes, and much more!
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Nancy and Sarah share their highs and lows from the year that was. Which movie did Nancy love, and Sarah despise? (Hint: It’s not the Bob Dylan movie.) Which book did Sarah love, even though Nancy finds the author “twee”? Plus, Sarah quizzes Nancy about momentous events in 2024, and Nancy mostly bombs, no cap.
Also discussed:
* “It’s always butter with you”
* Was Joan Baez that hot?
* The movie that set both Sarah and Nancy’s nerves on edge
* What live televised event got a Taylor Swift bump?
* Who was that guy that bombed at the Golden Globes, again?
* Big love for Andy Mills
* No Problematic Coffee
* “As a childless cat lady …”
* Michael Moynihan’s Melania impersonation gets a run for its money
Plus, knee-jerk Nancy on the year’s worst politician, Sarah panic-votes for macaroni and cheese, and more!
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It’s the end of 2024, and Sarah and Nancy wonder if two recent media phenomena represent a paradigm shift in two areas: porn and the collective consciousness. On one side: “I’m Lily Phillips, and today I’m getting run through by a hundred guys.” On the other side: “This groundbreaking series challenges everything we think we know about communication and the human mind, inviting viewers to step into a reality where the impossible is not only possible but happening every day.”
Yes, we’re talking about the YouTube documentary I Slept With 100 Men in One Day and the podcast The Telepathy Tapes, exploring the potentially telepathic abilities of nonverbal autists. What do these two things have in common? Join us to find out, in a conversation that veers from unexpected sex toys to Carl Jung. Also, Nancy cries about something other than journalism.
Also discussed:
* Nancy pens a viral tweet!
* The how-to-fold-a-fitted-sheet debate
* Wait, there are drones over LA, too?
* Sarah wants Nancy to start an OnlyPans page
* The orange street cone goes into WHAT, now?
* Lily Phillips’ understatement of the year: “I don’t know if I’d recommend it”
* The arrogance of thinking we know everything about science
* When Freud and Jung parted ways …
* Babe Paley’s husband
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Nancy and Sarah discuss the very online experience of watching both the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson and the capture of the man named as his killer, Luigi Mangione. We discuss the memes, conspiracies, tasteless jokes, and crushes on the alleged shooter. Did the tragic incident offer a pressure-valve release to Americans frustrated by a limping healthcare system, or is it an inflection point for something more dangerous? And how should we feel when murder becomes entertainment?
Also discussed:
* The Daniel Penny verdict
* The floating-in-space feeling between election and inauguration
* Activism ain’t what it used to be
* “Will you forgive me for loving to say his name?”
* Piers Morgan, the Jerry Springer of political shows
* “The brain is a dangerous thing”
* Bonnie & Clyde and glamorous crime
* “Desire knows no ethics”
* The detail that helps Luigi Mangione’s capture in a McDonald’s make sense
* Caitlin Flanagan, the master storyteller
* “What will survive of us is love”
* Did Sonny Liston take a dive?
Plus, Sarah’s brain makes “popcorn” in the middle of the night, Nancy thinks CBD makes her sing better, Ben Dreyfuss talks with Taylor Lorenz (let’s listen), and more!
As the poet says, what will survive of us is love. As the podcasters say, we survive only if you become a paid subscriber
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Smoke ‘Em welcomes favorite repeat guest and self-proclaimed “absolute newspaper romantic” Matt Welch. He talks with Nancy and Sarah about whether legacy papers can ever make a comeback and how they ignore local news at their own peril, plus whether civility might be on the upswing.
Also discussed:
* Pink hair don’t care
* How the Los Angeles Times “changed the physical landscape of the West.”
* Scott Jennings joins the editorial board at the LA Times. And?
* “Like perestroika, incivility starts in the home”
* They’re still counting votes in California!
* Is activism dead or just sleeping?
* “Throw any Russian in a skirt at Hegseth and he’s going to loosen his tie”
* “A dark sky had fallen over Nantucket, Mass., on Saturday evening when President Biden left church alongside his family after his final Thanksgiving as president …”
* Meghan McCain, flashpoint
* “Mono-politics is bad for governance”
* Maybe people should disengage from politics and take up streaking and fart books?
* People who voted for Kamala, but were pulling for Trump?
* Nancy thinks “raw-dogging” means …
* Sarah interviews Ken Burns, American treasure
Also, a wretched New York Times “Ethicist” question, thoughts on why Biden pardoned his son, dick-shaped cookie cutters, and much more!
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Nancy and Sarah discuss two recent dust-ups between men and women: One is fraught and potentially career-damaging, the other is (arguably) romantic, but also potentially legacy-damaging. Trump’s nominee to lead the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, is facing scandal that stems from a 2017 encounter at a Republican women’s convention, and the details are … confusing? Don’t really add up? Then we discuss the secret muse of Cormac McCarthy, 64-year-old Finnish lass Augusta Britt, who shares the story of her underage love affair (and lifelong connection) with McCarthy in a Vanity Fair story that was much-loved and much-trashed. Wanna guess where we fell?
Also discussed:
* Can anyone pronounce the last name Hegseth?
* The detail that brought the case together for Nancy
* Never name your bar “Knuckles”
* What if he were in a blackout, and she wasn’t …
* Cock-clock, crotch-block, what?
* The two foods all men love
* “We don’t get enough Finnish chutzpah”
* “Well baby, that’s what I do. I’m a writer.”
* Nancy just keeps vibrating
* Purple prose? Bring it
* The case of Joyce Maynard
* Sarah is really mad at Wicked
Plus, controversy over a writer’s hair, Nancy’s stuffing recipe, and more!
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After a brief discussion of the Mike Tyson-Jake Paul fight, Nancy and Sarah talk about health, weight, and other confusions. The inspiration is a recent New York Times story that three-quarters of Americans are overweight or obese, a report that coincides with the rise of new gurus like Dr. Casey Means, who recently appeared on Real Time With Bill Maher to talk about how little doctors understand nutrition and why Robert F. Kennedy Jr. could be a disruptor in the Department of Health. (Debatable.) Sarah, who has struggled with weight most of her life, expresses frustration at the mixed messages around eating. Nancy, who carried 20 extra pounds as a young woman, wonders how much people let weight keep them in a holding pattern.
Also discussed:
* JerryWorld!
* Was the fight fixed?
* “You gotta let people take their shot.”
* One word: Plastics
* Glucose monitors?
* The U.S. state with the most obese women is …
* To Ozempic, or not to Ozempic?
* Bill Maher is never backing down from January 6
Plus, Sarah gets a walking desk, a new Taylor Sheridan show drops, Nancy’s daughter has a doppelganger, and more!
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“I didn’t transition to replace cis women in sports,” begins Brianna Wu, the straight-shooter who chats with Sarah and Nancy this week. “I transitioned because I wanted to get along.” Joined by Kelly Cadigan, who co-hosts their new podcast “Dollcast,” both women talk openly about the frustration of watching the trans civil rights conversation hijacked by extremists, pitting people against each other. We discuss how the election may have been affected by the trans issue, the challenge of integrating trans women into sports, and what a more sane approach to dealing with trans minors might look like.
Also discussed:
* The newest member of Sarah’s family
* Gamergate
* Brianna just wants to have lunch uptown
* Vaginoplasty, actually rare among trans women
* “You do not want to know me without HRT”
* The nonbinary phenomenon
* “I don’t have any delusions I’m a biological woman, just admit I’m a kind of woman, albeit a weird one.”
* 15 is terrible for every girl!
* “It’s dangerous for me to out myself.”
* Who drank the Zionism super-serum?
Plus, the conundrum of granting grace, the hope that we’ve reached a reset on conversations, the sexiness of Seth Moulton, and more!
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Rats in the walls, ghosts in the bull rushes and some extreme reactions to the election of Donald Trump as president. What to do? Swear off sex? Buy a blue bracelet at Target? Excise at least 53% of Americans from your life? Sounds tragic. Maybe what we need is a child actress from the ‘80s to deliver some common sense …
Also discussed:
* A 🌹 is code for …
* Worry is not useful
* When a protest for sexual freedom becomes a vow of chastity
* Say “blue bracelet” three times fast
* Top o’ the morning, I doff my blue top hat
* Nancy wants the ladies to “bring their bushels”
* Joy Reid gonna Joy Reid
* Young men and #MeToo
* Justine Bateman’s cri de coeur
Plus: A fond farewell to “A Special Place in Hell,” Nancy pronounces the word “pianist” a lot like a DIFFERENT word, and Sarah studies up for this week’s biggest! boxing! event! of all time!
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Trump won, Kamala lost. People have feelings about this (including us). But it’s not going to get easier imagining that 50% of Americans are racists, misogynists, or whatever other -ist can be deployed to explain how Republicans pulled off a stunning victory on Tuesday, which some worry is ushering in an unprecedented period of darkness…
As it turns out, the sun rose! And Nancy and Sarah talk about What Happened: Are people uncomfortable with a woman leading? How big a factor was abortion? Do people just want change?
Also discussed:
* “Hollywood lost its grip on the popular imagination.”
* Polling: What is it good for?
* I mean we like Queen Latifah too, but …
* Sarah once wrote a column called “Crying in Restaurants”
* Trump announced during his acceptance speech that Melania’s book was #1. Does it shock anyone that this is not exactly the case?
* What’s up with all the crying videos?
* “Shut up, Mom!”
* Some love for Brianna Wu
* Is kissing cheating?
* Wishing our pal Steve Kornacki a nap
Plus, some day-after podcasts that made sense of the election, an eye-popping new Netflix bio on Martha Stewart, and a bonus video of … Eli Lake dancing?
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Sarah is scared to fly, Nancy is freaked out by moldy cheese, and both of them have scary stories related to times they got in a car they shouldn’t have. In honor of Halloween, we talk about classic horror movies, break out some October 31 trivia, and discuss what scares Americans most.
Also discussed:
* Is Jaws a horror movie: a debate!
* Nancy’s almost-star turn in said same movie
* 2023’s #1 Halloween costume
* Alligators in the sewers: real or urban myth?
* The movie image that freaked out 12-year-old Sarah
* The devil’s entrance from hell was in … Nancy’s dad’s apartment?
* Everyone is afraid of one of these: snakes, rats or …
* Small planes have a better chance of survival?
* “The guy with the pin cushions in his face.”
* Elevator shaft close calls
* “The line between blooper reel and tragedy is very thin”
Plus, how to swim out of a riptide, Nancy does a Vincent Price impersonation, Sarah’s top scary movie, and much more!
First Sunday — and last call before the election — Zoom: For paid subscribers, this Sunday, November 3, 8pmET/5pmPT. Bring your predictions, your fears, what’s left of your kids’ Halloween candy and/or something stronger.
It was a dark and stormy night when you finally became a paid subscriber …
Forgot to mention: Our pal Michael Moynihan will be on “Real Time with Bill Maher” this Friday. Last show before the election should be a doozy.
Episode Notes:
“Bannon's Prison Sentence Is Over and He Has Nothing New To Say,” by Nancy Rommelmann (Reason)
“Highest Grossing Horror Movies of All Time,” by Travis Bean (Forbes)
“What Are Americans Really Afraid Of?” Chapman University survey
Americans’ #1 fear? Corrupt politicians. In related news …
“Alligators in the sewer myth is true: City workers find out in jaw-dropping video,” by Ben Cost (New York Post)
Thank you, Stephen King
What’s in your hot box?
Sarah: Stoner, by John Williams
Nancy: Citizens: A Chronicle of the French Revolution, by Simon Schama
Sarah picks the outro
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This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com
“The election is a week from tomorrow, thank God,” says Sarah, speaking for the rest of us, feeling as though we are Danny in The Shining and the candidates are the twins…
We take a break from political news (well, kind of) to talk about two recent TV distractions: Anatomy of Lies, a three-part docuseries about the bundle of fraudulence that was Grey’s Anatomy writer Elisabeth Finch, and Woman of the Hour, a tense Netflix drama directed by and starring Anna Kendrick and based on the real-life story of a serial killer contestant on The Dating Game.
Also discussed:
* Tony Hinchcliffe’s very bad joke
* Nancy wants the media to use more precise language
* Joe Rogan podcast: Trump has logorrhea
* Be careful what you say in the supermarket …
* Andie MacDowell and the afterlife
* A side effect of knee surgery replacement is … obsessive lying?
* What with all the serial killers?
* Should we watch the Menendez Brothers documentary?
Plus, Sarah can’t go anywhere without being recognized, Nancy has a question about crossing over, a very enthusiastic hot box recommendation, and much more!
Correction: Nancy initially said the pro-Nazi rally in Madison Square Garden took place in 1939, then changed it to 1936. Right the first time!
First Sunday — and last call before the election — Zoom: For paid subscribers, this Sunday, November 3, 8pmET/5pmPT. Bring your predictions, your fears, what’s left of your kids’ Halloween candy and/or something stronger.
Our girl Nancy has a birthday this week, and we know the perfect gift:
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Let’s say you want to promote a book and you have a little ad money to burn. If you are author and communications consultant Melanie Notkin, you might contact Shelf Awareness, which sends free newsletters to, per its Instagram bio, “booksellers, librarians, publishers, book collectors, literary antiquarians, and everyone else who loves to read.” Shelf Awareness publisher Matt Balducci was happy to run the promo, for the U.S. release of Bernard-Henri Lévy's latest book… until two days later, when he emailed Melanie to say they were cancelling the ad.
“I’ve never been denied the ability to pay for an ad in any outlet,” says Notkin, who knew, before she spoke with Balducci — a conversation Notkin recorded — that he was backing out because of one of the words in the book’s two-word title, and it wasn’t “Alone.”
Francesca Block at The Free Press reported on the story earlier today. Here, Notkin picks up the conversation, including:
* Is the anti-Israeli movement contracting or going underground?
* Pro tip: When you basically tell someone you’re caving to the mob, maybe try not to sound patronizing
* The shadow-banning of books and authors leads nowhere good
* Quick: A group of masked people on the subway chant, “Raise your hand if you’re a Zionist!” What do you do?
* “I don’t want to live in a world where my friend denounces me.”
* #nevershuttingup
Plus, big love for Douglas Murray, when intolerance becomes a show of valor, and did casual Fridays ruin everything?
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Greetings from Nancy’s 31st hotel room! Our roving reporter is on the scene in Asheville, North Carolina, where she gives Sarah the scoop on hurricane damage, what the politicized coverage has gotten wrong, and why it’s good to live near churches when catastrophe strikes. The two of them talk Ted Cruz vs. Colin Allred, as well as Kamala Harris vs. Bret Baier. Then it’s on to the New York Times’ latest story on University of Michigan’s DEI double-down.
Also discussed:
* What up with those shower half-doors?
* Fewer “talking points” Kamala, more Feisty Kamala
* Name someone more weasely than Ted Cruz. We’ll wait …
* “Whore’s bath”???
* FEMA controversy = not that controversial
* Does DEI cause plane crashes?
* How long will colleges ignore the ROI?
* Anatomy of Lies: Next week’s topic?
* What does it say about us that we love exposing liars?
Plus, the problem with the docu-series, the man who puts Sarah to sleep every night, Nancy needs a bath, and more!
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