Episoder
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Thereâs a lot to process as 2024 draws to a close.
In our end-of-year Ask Me Anything, the supervising editor of âThe Ezra Klein Show,â Claire Gordon, joins Ezra in the studio to ask your questions â on politics, and lots of not-politics too. Ezra talks about the ways this year has affected him personally: how his views on government have changed; his efforts to stave off burnout; and his off-again, on-again relationship with social media.
They also discuss the making of the show: the accusation that certain episodes have ânormalizedâ Donald Trump; how weâre going to approach covering the next administration; the story behind our new theme music; and whatâs going on with that arm tattoo.
Thank you to the listeners who sent in questions, and to everyone whoâs tuned in this year. Without you, this year would have been a lot lonelier. (We also wouldnât have jobs.) Weâll be re-airing one of our favorite episodes this Friday (on the art of rest). And then weâll be back here with new episodes in 2025. Wishing you a great end to 2024. Happy new year!
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âMagical Tree Creaturesâ by Pat McCusker
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was fact-checked by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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In 2022, President Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act, ushering in, by some estimates, nearly half a trillion dollars of investment in green energy and manufacturing. But what will happen to this huge investment as Donald Trump enters office?
Jigar Shah is one of the best people to answer this question. As the director of the Loan Programs Office at the Department of Energy, he has spent his career finding new ways to finance green infrastructure. And heâs more optimistic than you might expect about the road ahead.
In this conversation, guest host Robinson Meyer, a contributing writer for New York Times Opinion and the founding executive editor of Heatmap News, asks Shah for a progress check on decarbonization. They discuss what has changed about the economics and financing of clean energy; what has worked well in the green energy transition, as well as the trade-offs it has entailed; and what may or may not change as Trump enters office.
Book Recommendations:
Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Nicholas Taleb
What If We Get It Right? by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson
Romney by McKay Coppins
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu [Who]. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Donald Trump will enter office at a time when presidential power has significantly expanded, because of a string of Supreme Court decisions in recent years. These decisions can be understood to have two functions: They give presidents a âswordâ to act more decisively and unilaterally, and a âshieldâ that protects them from prosecution against actions taken in their official capacity. What will these capacities mean for Trumpâs second term â especially as he has promised to radically transform the federal government?
Gillian Metzger is a professor at Columbia Law School who has studied the presidency, the administrative state and the Supreme Courtâs relationship to both. In this conversation, guest-hosted by Kate Shaw, a New York Times Opinion contributing writer and law professor, Metzger discusses two key Supreme Court cases â the Trump immunity case, which gave presidents broad protections from prosecution, and the Loper Bright Enterprises case, which overturned the Chevron doctrine, expanding judicial power. Shaw and Metzger also cover how much leeway Trump actually has to take some of the bolder executive actions heâs floated, including ending birthright citizenship; what still remains uncertain about the federal governmentâs regulatory powers in the post-Chevron regime; and more.
âThe Demise of Deference â And the Rise of Delegation to Interpret?â by Thomas W. Merrill
âThe DOGE Plan to Reform Governmentâ by Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy
Book recommendations
Creating the Administrative Constitution by Jerry L. Mashaw
The Forging of Bureaucratic Autonomy by Daniel Carpenter
âCuration, Narration, Erasureâ by Karen M. Tani
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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This election felt like the peak of the TV-ification of politics. Thereâs Trump, of course, who rose to national prominence as a reality-TV character and is a master of visual stagecraft. And while Trumpâs cabinet picks in his first term were described as out of central casting, this time he wants to staff some positions directly from the worlds of TV and entertainment: Pete Hegseth, his choice to run the Pentagon, was a host on âFox and Friends Weekendâ; his proposed education secretary, Linda McMahon, was the former C.E.O. of W.W.E.; Mehmet Oz, star of the long-running âThe Dr. Oz Show,â is his pick to run Medicare and Medicaid; and heâs tapped Elon Musk, one of the most powerful figures in American culture, to lead a government efficiency effort.
Two years ago, we released an episode that helps explain why politics and entertainment are converging like this. Itâs with my old Vox colleague Sean Illing, host of âThe Gray Area,â looking at the work of two media theorists, Marshall McLuhan and Neil Postman, who uncannily predicted what weâre seeing now decades ago.
And so I wanted to share this episode again now, because itâs really worth stepping back and looking at this moment through the lens of the media thatâs shaping it. In his book âThe Paradox of Democracy,â Illing and his co-author, Zac Gershberg, put it this way: âItâs better to think of democracy less as a government type and more as an open communicative culture.â So what does our communicative culture â our fragmented mix of cable news, X, TikTok, YouTube, WhatsApp and podcasts â mean for our democracy?
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
ââFlood the zone with shitâ: How misinformation overwhelmed our democracyâ by Sean Illing
âQuantifying partisan news diets in Web and TV audiencesâ by Daniel Muise, Homa Hosseinmardi, Baird Howland, Markus Mobius, David Rothschild and Duncan J. Watts
Book Recommendations:
Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman
Public Opinion by Walter Lippmann
Mediated by Thomas de Zengotita
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by RogĂ© Karma. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Sonia Herrero, Carole Sabouraud and Isaac Jones. Our production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin, Jack McCordick and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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This is our first bonus content of the paywall era, a subscriber-only, election-themed âask me anything.â If you havenât subscribed and would like to, you can do that directly through Apple Podcasts and Spotify, or click here. If you donât want to subscribe, youâll still have an end-of-year âask me anythingâ coming down your feed â a mix of politics and things in life that, thankfully, arenât politics.
And if you do subscribe, thank you so much for supporting the show. We hope you enjoy this little extra for your money.
Thank you, also, to everyone who sent in questions. We read them all and wish we had time to get to more of them.
But in the time that we had, the showâs supervising editor, Claire Gordon, quizzed Ezra with listenersâ questions on the meaning of âthe working class,â whether an election that seemed to hinge on the economy could qualify as postmaterialist, the lessons he worries the Democrats will overlearn, his response to L.G.B.T.Q. voters who fear political backlash, what the election means for Israelâs war in Gaza, how blue cities should respond to their apparent electoral rebuke and more.
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was fact-checked by Michelle Harris and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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It was possible to see Donald Trumpâs first election victory as some kind of fluke. But after the results of this election, itâs clear that America is living in the Trump era. And for Americans whoâve struggled to process this fact, you have lots of company around the world. From Hungary to Brazil, right-wing figures with openly authoritarian goals have been voted into power, to the concern of many of the people who live there.
A political phenomenon that spans countries like this â especially countries with such different levels of wealth, political systems and cultures â requires an explanation that spans countries, too.
So we wanted to re-air this episode that originally published in November 2022, because it offers exactly that kind of theory. Pippa Norris is a political scientist at Harvardâs Kennedy School of Government. Sheâs written dozens of books on topics ranging from comparative political institutions to right-wing parties and the decline of religion. In 2019, she and Ronald Inglehart published âCultural Backlash: Trump, Brexit and Authoritarian Populism,â which gives the best explanation of the far rightâs rise that Iâve read. And it feels so much more relevant now in this country, after Trumpâs decisive election.
In this conversation, we discuss what Norris calls the âsilent revolution in cultural valuesâ that has occurred across advanced democracies in recent decades, why the âtransgressive aestheticâ of leaders like Trump and Brazilâs Jair Bolsonaro is so central to their appeal, the role that economic anxiety and insecurity play in fueling right-wing backlashes and more.
Mentioned:
Sacred and Secular by Pippa Norris and Ronald Inglehart
âExploring drivers of vote choice and policy positions among the American electorateâ
Book Recommendations:
Popular Dictatorships by Aleksandar Matovski
Spin Dictators by Sergei Guriev and Daniel Treisman
The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. (And if you're reaching out to recommend a guest, please write âGuest Suggestion" in the subject line.)
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ is produced by Emefa Agawu, Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Roge Karma. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Original music by Isaac Jones. Mixing by Jeff Geld. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Kristina Samulewski.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by RogĂ© Karma. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by our senior engineer, Jeff Geld. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show's production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin, Jack McCordick and Aman Sahota. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Right after the election, I talked about how the results reminded me of 2004. George W. Bush won re-election that year â and unlike four years earlier, the popular vote, too. Democrats were truly, undeniably in the wilderness. But two years later, they found their way out. Democrats won the House for the first time in 12 years. And two years after that, with the election of Barack Obama, they completed their trifecta. Does that comeback story have any lessons for Democrats today?
Rahm Emanuel is the person to ask. He helped orchestrate that 2006 Democratic victory as the chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. He was Obamaâs first chief of staff. And before that, Emanuel was a senior adviser to President Bill Clinton. Emanuel has been a central player in most of the biggest Democratic victories of the past few decades. And people like David Axelrod and Steve Israel have been floating his name to lead the Democratic National Committee to help guide Democrats out of the wilderness once more. But Emanuel is also a controversial figure in the party. And the eras of Democratic politics he represents have complicated legacies and arenât remembered with unanimous warmth.
In this conversation, Emanuel argues that Democrats have fallen out of touch with what Americans actually want. We discuss why Democrats lost this November, what lessons theyâve forgotten from the Obama and Clinton years and how he would plot a Democratic comeback today.
Book Recommendations:
Lincoln at Gettysburg by Garry Wills
The Lost by Daniel Mendelsohn
The Noise of Time by Julian Barnes
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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There are a lot of different opinions about how the Democratic Party should rebuild after the blow of Donald Trumpâs victory. And for the next two episodes, weâre going to showcase two very different ones.
Faiz Shakir was Bernie Sandersâs 2020 campaign manager, and he believes that Democrats need to embrace a Sanders-style class-first populism. This question of whether Sanders or a candidate like him could have beaten Trump loomed over Democratic post-mortems of the 2016 election, and theyâve reared up again this year, as Democrats have continued to lose working-class voters. As Sanders put it in a blistering statement: âIt should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working-class people would find that the working class has abandoned them.â
But some Democrats have been frustrated with this criticism. President Biden has been arguably the most economically populist president of the modern era. And the Democrats who have been winning in redder parts of the country arenât democratic socialists. So I wanted to have Shakir on for a lively debate. Shakir worked not just for Sanders; he was also a senior adviser to the Senate majority leader Harry Reid and to Nancy Pelosi. And heâs currently the founder and executive director of More Perfect Union, a media outlet focused on issues affecting Americaâs working class.
This episode contains strong language.
Book Recommendations:
The Tyranny of Merit by Michael J. Sandel
Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek
Donât Get above Your Raisinâ by Bill C. Malone
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The core conflict in our politics right now is over institutions. Democrats defend them, while Republicans distrust them, and seek, in some cases, to eliminate them.
This is really bad. Itâs bad for institutions when Republicans are elected, because of the damage they might inflict. And itâs bad for institutions when Democrats are elected, because when youâre so committed to protecting something, itâs hard to be clear-eyed or honest about all the ways itâs failing. And when Democrats wonât admit to the problems that so many Americans can see and feel, that creates a huge opening for the right. So, what are Democrats missing?
Steven Teles is a political scientist and director of the Center for Economy and Society at Johns Hopkins, and a senior fellow at the Niskanen Center. Jennifer Pahlka is the founder of Code for America and the author of one of my favorite books on why government doesnât deliver, âRecoding America: Why Government is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better.â Sheâs also a senior fellow at Niskanen.
In this conversation, we discuss how and why the country has become polarized over institutions; the ways this was supercharged during the pandemic; the reasons government agencies are so focused on process, often at the expense of outcomes; how a second Trump administration will probably distract from some much needed institutional reforms; and more.
This episode contains strong language.
Recommendations:
âVoice and Inequality: The Transformation of American Civic Democracyâ by Theda Skocpol
âInfrastructure Costsâ by Leah Brooks and Zachary D. Liscow
Why Nothing Works by Marc Dunkelman
The Unaccountability Machine by Dan Davies
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Iâve been watching since the election to see what timeline weâre in. And Donald Trumpâs first wave of selections for appointees were pretty straightforward. But then came the turn: Pete Hegseth, a former âFox & Friendsâ host, to helm the Pentagon; Tulsi Gabbard for director of national intelligence; and the real gut-punch, the former representative Matt Gaetz for attorney general.
In the parts of government that can be weaponized most dangerously â the military, the intelligence services, the Department of Justice â Trump is putting true lackeys and loyalists in charge. I fear weâve entered the bad timeline.
Anne Applebaum is a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian, a staff writer at The Atlantic, and the author of a new book, âAutocracy, Inc.: The Dictators Who Want to Run the World.â In this conversation, we discuss how sheâs been processing Trumpâs picks, what to make of Elon Muskâs role in Trumpâs inner circle, the indicators to look out for when governments slide in an autocratic direction, the appeal and excitement of autocratic regimes that often get missed in our history books, the relationship between autocracies and futurists, the politics of performance and more.
Mentioned:
Join our team as a story editor
Book Recommendations:
Moneyland by Oliver Bullough
Offshore by Brooke Harrington
American Kleptocracy by Casey Michel
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The Democratic Party has been hemorrhaging nonwhite and working-class voters. There are a lot of theories about why that has been happening, blaming it on the partyâs ideas or messaging or campaign tactics. But I think the problem might be deeper than that â rooted in the structure of the Democratic Party itself.
Michael Lind is a columnist at Tablet magazine, a co-founder of New America and the author of âThe New Class War: Saving Democracy From the Managerial Elite.â He argues that the Democratic Party in recent years has become more beholden to special-interest nonprofits, which claim to represent large constituencies but actually reflect the interests of the donor class. In this conversation, we discuss why he thinks the nonprofit complex became so powerful, how that might have led to a disconnect between the Democratic Party and its core voter base and what he thinks Democrats could do to course correct.
Book Recommendations:
Where Have All the Democrats Gone? by John B. Judis and Ruy Teixeira
Tyranny, Inc. by Sohrab Ahmari
Mother Jones by Elliot J. Gorn
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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To understand the 2024 election results, it helps to go back to 2020. Donald Trump lost the election that year, but he made significant gains with nonwhite voters. At the time, a lot of Democrats saw that as a fluke, a hangover from Covid lockdown policies. But the Republican pollster Patrick Ruffini saw it as bellwether.
In his 2023 book, âParty of the People: Inside the Multiracial Populist Coalition Remaking the GOP,â Ruffini argued that Trump was ushering in a party realignment. A trend that had been happening for years in the white electorate â college-educated voters moving to the left, and non-college-educated ones moving to the right â was now evident, he said, among voters of all races, breaking up the core of the Democratic base.
And so far, the data we have from this election suggests that Ruffini was right.
In this conversation, Ruffini, a founding partner at Echelon Insights, contextualizes the 2024 election results by looking back at 2020âs. We discuss what Democrats missed about these voter trends; the appeal of Trumpâs brand of class politics; why Democrats might have been better off with a red wave in the 2022 midterms; and how Kamala Harrisâs campaign may have hurt her with nonwhite working-class voters.
Book Recommendations:
Steadfast Democrats by Ismail K. White and Chryl N. Laird
The Real Majority by Richard Scammon and Ben Wattenberg
The New Americans by Michael Barone
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair, Mary Marge Locker, Jack McCordick and Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The coalition the Democratic Party built in the Obama years has crumbled. But Democrats can choose how to respond.
Mentioned:
âDemocrats Have a Better Option Than Bidenâ
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by our supervising editor, Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Jack McCordick and Kristin Lin. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Elias Isquith. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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In 2010, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert held a satirical rally on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., called the Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear. This was amid the Tea Party movement. Political emotions were running high. And Stewart ended the rally with a speech slamming the media for stoking the countryâs divisions.
âBut we live now in hard times, not end times,â he said. âAnd we can have animus and not be enemies. But unfortunately, one of our main tools in delineating the two broke.â
That rally has a Rosetta Stone quality to it now. Because what Stewart was describing has only gotten worse. Our divisions feel deeper and more dangerous.
So as we enter election week, I wanted to have a conversation with Stewart about some of the arcs he has traced in American politics since he first hosted âThe Daily Showâ in 1999. We discuss how the media has become increasingly segmented and polarized in the past 25 years, how that has affected politics, how he understands Tucker Carlsonâs political transformation and whether his own politics have changed.
Note: The Washington Post is one of several news organizations mentioned in this conversation. We taped this interview before the recent controversy at the Washington Post over ending its practice of presidential endorsements -- a decision made by the paper's owner, Jeff Bezos.
This episode contains strong language.
Book Recommendations:
I Shouldnât Be Telling You This (But Iâm Going to Anyway) by Chelsea Devantez
The works of Kurt Vonnegut (Breakfast of Champions, Player Piano, Catâs Cradle, Slaughterhouse-Five, God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater, etc.)
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Our politics are increasingly divided on fundamental issues like the legitimacy of elections and the nature and integrity of the basic systems of American government. Thatâs the most important fact of this election. But strange new zones of agreement have been emerging, too â on China, outsourcing and health care. What should we make of that?
In his book âThe Rise and Fall of the Neoliberal Orderâ the historian Gary Gerstle describes these shifts in consensus in terms of political orders â these eras that stretch for decades, when both parties come to accept a certain set of ideas. In this conversation he walks me through the political, economic and social factors that shaped two political orders in the last century: the New Deal order and the neoliberal order. And we apply this lens to whatâs happening in our politics right now.
It may seem strange to take a step back in time right before the election. But I think Gerstleâs framework helps uncover an overlooked dimension of the 2024 race and where politics might go next.
Book Recommendations:
The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory by Tim Alberta
Underground Asia by Tim Harper
The Known Citizen by Sarah E. Igo
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Michelle Harris and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Vivek Ramaswamy burst onto the national scene last year as a wild card candidate for the Republican presidential nomination. Here was a relatively unknown biotech executive with no political experience, pitching himself as someone who could carry on Donald Trumpâs movement. Trump ultimately won that primary contest handily, but Ramaswamy was a breakout star. There was even chatter that he might be Trumpâs V.P. pick.
Trump, of course, ended up choosing JD Vance â Ramaswamyâs friend and former classmate â who has a very different vision for the future of Trumpism. But Ramaswamy believes the future of the Trump movement is still up for grabs and is fighting hard for his camp to win out over the one that Vance represents, including in his new book, âTruths: The Future of America First.â
In this conversation, we discuss the two competing visions that Ramaswamy sees as lurking beneath the surface of Trumpism, what he calls ânational protectionistâ and ânational libertarian,â whether his vision is really so different from Paul Ryan-style conservativism, why he thinks these debates within the Republican Party are really deep down about identity and what it means to be an American.
Book Recommendations:
The Constitution of Liberty by Friedrich Hayek
The Bhagavad Gita
The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich Hayek
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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This week I published an audio essay about what I think is unique about Donald Trump as a personality and political figure and the dangers he poses if he gets a second term in the White House. But I wanted to go deeper on this topic with someone who knows him much better than I do.
Maggie Haberman is a senior political correspondent for The New York Times and has traced his evolution over the decades in her 2022 book, âConfidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America.â
In this conversation, we discuss what Haberman agreed and disagreed with in my essay, the forces that shaped Trumpâs ideas of politics and power as a real estate developer in New York City, what she thinks he wants from a second term (including his desire for revenge), how his inner circle has changed since his time in office, what he might do if he loses and more.
Note: This conversation was taped before Trumpâs former chief of staff John Kelly went on the record saying that Trump meets the definition of a fascist and confirming that the former president made admiring statements about Hitler.
Mentioned:
âWhatâs Wrong With Donald Trump?â by Ezra Klein
âTrumpâs Speeches, Increasingly Angry and Rambling, Reignite the Question of Ageâ by Peter Baker and Dylan Freedman
âTrump Leans On Creative Bookkeeping to Keep Up in Cash Raceâ by Shane Goldmacher and Maggie Haberman
Book Recommendations:
Kamalaâs Way by Dan Morain
Romney by McKay Coppins
American Carnage by Tim Alberta
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ is produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Jack McCordick.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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I think thereâs an answer. But itâs not age â or, at least, itâs not just age.
Mentioned:
âWhite House aides lean on delays and distraction to manage Trumpâ by Josh Dawsey
âI Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administrationâ by Miles Taylor
âWhat JD Vance Believesâ by Ross Douthat
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This audio essay for âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by our supervising editor, Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Jack McCordick. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Crime data has been a flashpoint in this election. Kamala Harris has claimed that violent crime is at a ânear 50-year low,â while Donald Trump has insisted that crime is going up. According to the numbers reported to the F.B.I., Harris is right: Crime, especially violent crime, has been falling. But if you look at survey data, Trump is tapping into something people feel. Last year, 77 percent of Americans told Gallup that they believe crime is on the rise.
So whatâs going on here? Why, if crime is falling, do people feel less safe?
Charles Fain Lehman, a crime and drug policy researcher at the Manhattan Institute, wrote a piece on his Substack, The Causal Fallacy, on exactly this question. In this conversation, we discuss why he thinks Americans are feeling less safe, despite what the data says, as well as the ideological shifts taking place around drugs and crime, on both the left and the right.
Mentioned:
âBreakdownâ by Heather Mac Donald
âBetween Tolerant Containment and Concerted Constraint: Managing Madness for the City and the Privileged Familyâ by Neil Gong
Book Recommendations:
Thinking About Crime by James Q. Wilson
Against Excess by Mark Kleiman
The Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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As of this week, the archive of this show is behind a paywall. The three most recent episodes are free, but earlier episodes are available only to New York Times subscribers. If you donât want the whole subscription, thereâs an audio-only subscription for $1.50 a week. That gets you access to our archives, as well as the archives of all the other great Times podcasts.
To help make the pitch here, I wanted to share an episode from our friends at the âBook Reviewâ podcast. Itâs hosted by Gilbert Cruz, the editor of The Timesâs Book Review section. And I thought you might enjoy this particular episode with Robert Caro about his book âThe Power Broker.â It came out 50 years ago, and itâs still one of the most influential books in politics and policy circles â for better or for worse. In this conversation they dig into why that is and what to make of the bookâs legacy. I hope you enjoy it.
To learn more about the subscription, visit nytimes.com/podcasts.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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