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How does curiosity show up in your life, work, and relationships?
Does your curiosity influence your strategy or planning? Or do you follow your curiosity to gain more knowledge or deepen your understanding of topics or viewpoints? Do you lean on curiosity to help you get to know someone better in ways that satisfy your interests or deepen your connection?
Do you keep following your curiosity even if it leads to uncomfortable or unknown places?
Our curiosity can reveal much about us, our interests, and our capacity for hope, discomfort, and imagination. But just as important is HOW we use our curiosity.
When we wield our curiosity to prove a point, we can cause division and harm. And when we use curiosity to honor others and our vulnerability, we can build the bridges necessary to cultivate the spaces we dream about and desire.
Todayâs guest has combined his own lived experiences and research on curiosity and bridge-building into a powerful, nuanced book and set of practices on curiosity and how we use it in our relationships.
Scott Shigeoka believes curiosity has the power to transform your life and change the world. It's the key to connection, healing, and personal growth. It's a critical practice for your relationships, leadership, and life satisfaction. In his book, Seek: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the World, Scott teaches readers to strengthen their curiosity muscles with his signature DIVE method.
Scott has appeared on The Today Show, Harvard Business Review, NPR, The Guardian, and CNBC, and he has spoken at Google, Microsoft, Pixar, IDEO, Meta, Airbnb, and universities and schools around the world and teaches at The University of Texas at Austin.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Scottâs cross-country road trip showed in real-time that approaching fears with curiosity builds connection, understanding, and possibilityThe limits and boundaries to approaching others with curiosity in the momentWhy we need to bring curiosity and humility when we catch our own biasesHow social and structural power dynamics influence how we balance curiosity, discomfort, and anger in a groupThree key questions to ask yourself to identify if your curiosity about another person or situation is invasive or predatoryHow letting go of certainty opens up possibilities and allows for growthLearn more about Scott Shigeoka:
WebsiteSeek: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the WorldInstagram: @scottshigeokaLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Rising Strong: How the Ability to Reset Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead, Brené BrownThe Making of Another Major Motion Picture Masterpiece, Tom HanksBillie Eilish - LUNCHInside Out 2Beyoncé - RENAISSANCE -
What is your relationship with your dreams?
Not your goals or visions for the future, but the actual dreams that appear when you sleep?
Deepening our understanding of our dreams is not just a trailhead, but a transformative journey to better understanding ourselves, what drives us, what limits us, and what impacts our choices and behaviors.
Todayâs guest, Selden âDeeâ Kelley, urges us to take the time to reflect on dreams so that we can better understand how our inner systems are processing our present and our past. He reminds us of the profound power of witnessing our subconscious burdens, a process that validates our experiences and our desire to be seen and heard.
Dee is a lifelong learner. He holds five degrees in religion, psychology, an MBA, and a PhD in Industrial Psychology and Organizational Development. He served 18 years as the Pastor of the First Church of the Nazarene in San Diego and held various leadership and administration positions before becoming a pastor.
He has a deep passion for helping others discover the rich guidance that dream work can provide for their journey toward health and wholeness, and helps people connect with the power of their dreams as a pathway toward new insight, better decision-making, and improved creative thinking.
Content Note: Dee draws heavily from Jungian male-female archetypes. I want to note that the discussion of gender expands across the spectrum and is not limited to the male-female binary.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Deeâs approach blends hypotheses of the biological functions of dreaming and uses them in service of greater self-awarenessHow every personâs dreams have an individual dialect Advice for beginning to remember and take note of your dreamsWhy specific interpretation can matter less than the reflections the interpretation leads toHow paying attention to our dreams can help us embrace imaginative, nuanced thinkingDifferentiating between dream crushers and useful contrarian voices, in dreams and awakeLearn more about Dee Kelley:
WebsiteInstagram: @drdeedreamscoachLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
What Dreams May ComeInception -
Manglende episoder?
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When you are excited about something, how do you show up?
Do you wear excitement and passion on your sleeve for all to see?
Maybe your personality is more low-key and strategic, and it is less obvious when you're really excited about an idea, a vision, or being a part of something.
Or maybe you adapt and edit yourself, muting your responses to play it cool for fear you wonât be taken seriously.
Yes, itâs essential to consider your role, environment, and audience when you feel energized about something. But if weâre constantly focused on who we should be, how we should act, and what the right thing to say is, itâs hard to have hope and a vision for the future.
Meg Raby Klinghoffer does not feel weighed down by messages about playing it cool and downplaying her excitement and joy anymore. She is emphatically all in with helping others envision how the spaces where we live, work, and play can be inclusive for those with invisible disabilities. She is becoming a contagion to create spaces where we can all be welcome and feel comfortable being ourselves, from concerts to museums to schools and beyond.
Meg is the author of the My Brother Otto series, a Speech-Language Pathologist, a writer for Scary Mommy, and a full-time employee of KultureCity, the nationâs leading nonprofit in sensory inclusion. She is also autistic.
At any given moment, Meg is thinking about how to better love the humans around her and how to create positive change without causing division.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How receiving an autism diagnosis and owning that identity has allowed Meg to advocate for herself more freelyHow to respectfully approach learning more about and supporting the autistic adults in your lifeHow having an autistic community helped Meg let go of old rules and embrace her identityHow KultureCity addresses the need for macro-level change to make spaces more supportive and inclusiveMegâs vision for moving beyond awareness or acceptance to true inclusionLearn more about Meg Raby Klinghoffer:
KultureCityScary MommyInstagram: @author.meg.rabyLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Somebody's Daughter: A Memoir, Ashley C FordKamala Harris and the Threat of a Woman's Laugh - Sophie Gilbert, The AtlanticWe're Not Broken: Changing the Autism Conversation, Eric GarciaYung PuebloPost Malone - Hollywood's BleedingLauren Daigle - Rescue3 Body ProblemThe Jacksons: An American Dream -
What sparks your imagination?
What shuts down your capacity to imagine?
Where does your mind go when the stakes are high, and the pressure feels too great? Do you find yourself mentally preparing for the worst possible outcomes, as if you were rehearsing a play? Do you shut down or numb out to manage your fears and anxieties?
Our brains naturally seek comfort in the known or fill in the unknown with potential disasters. However, it takes conscious effort and practice to build the capacity to imagine positive outcomes when things feel bleak.
But we can counter overwhelm and despair by connecting with imaginative individuals who embody hope, curiosity, and possibility grounded in vision and action.
These visionary leaders remind us that something different is possible and that we can choose to take deliberate action to change the prevailing tides.
In this new series of Unburdened Leader conversations, Iâll be in dialogue with leaders who urge us to envision a future that's not just a distant dream, but a reality we can actively shape today.
Over the next few months, you will hear conversations that invite you to take meaningful action here and now that does not deplete but heals and energizes.
These visionary conversations will help you connect with your desire to see a way through the noise and do something different.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
Why this moment feels so vital to share conversations with leaders imaginingâand buildingâa more moral and just worldA taste of upcoming topics of conversation, from invisible disabilities to reframing resilience as a collective undertakingEssential steps for building and protecting your capacity to hope and imagine in trying timesLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
EP 02: How Self-Leadership Saves You From The Relentless Drive To Succeed with Dr. Richard SchwartzEP 88: Right-Use-of-Power: Navigating Leadership Dynamics with Dr. Cedar Barstow -
What does it mean to you to live a life with no regrets? Is that even possible?
What if itâs less about avoiding regrets entirely and more about being clear on your values, dreams, and desires and combining that with intentional practices to build a life focused on things that matter to you and the world around you?
Of course, this takes work because weâre constantly pulled in many different directions and responding to many inputs, just trying to keep our heads above water.
To lead well, we must get clarity in our values and develop trusting relationships with our inner worlds and physical bodies.
Instead of chasing a life with zero regrets, we need to learn to respond well to our regrets in the moment. If we want to look back and feel good about how we responded, we canât numb out or bypass; we must make amends and correct our course.
Todayâs conversation is with a long-time friend and colleague who reminds us that living an aligned life is a meandering path, a life that is always stretched and tested. It's not always easy, but when we stay connected to our values, desires, and integrity, there can be ease and clarity even in the hard times.
Molly Mahar is the founder of Stratejoy, a community helping women reclaim intimate, honest, and joyful relationships with themselves for the good of all. She's an entrepreneur, mama, writer, and adventurer obsessed with designing personal experiments that scare you, telling the truth, and her new teardrop trailer. In this episode, Molly shares her journey of living an aligned life, her struggles, and the lessons she learned along the way.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Molly prepared, financially and emotionally, to embark on a year of travel and a major move with her familyHow relocating on their return may have actually made it easier for Molly to integrate her experiencesWhat putting their lives on hold and being together 24/7 revealed about Mollyâs relationship with her husband, their parenting choices, and how they handle conflictThe support and practices that helped Molly get back in alignment Unpacking her complicated relationship with alcohol and why she knew she needed to get sober for goodThe core questions that Molly used to guide her self-reflection throughout the tripLearn more about Molly Mahar:
StratejoyInstagram: @stratejoy, @mollymaharLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
EP 107: The Seasons of Entrepreneurship: Leading a Deliberate Life with Laura RoederBetween Two Kingdoms: A Memoir of a Life Interrupted, Suleika JaouadBirnam Wood, Eleanor CattonYou, Again, Kate GoldbeckPaper Planes - Radio UpMAGIC! â Good Feeling About YouNyadThe Idea of YouSaved by the Bell -
What do you want to be known for? And what actions do you take to be seen in that light?
What lengths do you go to to avoid being misunderstood and viewed differently than what you want to be known for?
What drives what you want to be known for, and what are your choices to uphold your desired image or reputation?
Most of us have multiple internal agendas that shape our decisions and how we show up and are seen by others and ourselves. Our values, fears, and burdens, internally and externally, drive us.
When we place our worth and safety solely in the hands of others, we go to great lengths to hold on to how we want to be perceived. Lengths that too often leave a wake of chaos, abuse of power, manipulation, and betrayalâall to maintain the illusion of control.
We need more leaders who give us hope and reverence for humanity and others. These leaders do the work to build their capacity for discomfort so that they can lead with conviction, humility, and a deep sense of connectedness bigger than their personal ambitions or fears.
Joining us today is a guest who embodies the principles we discuss on this podcast. Dee Kelley is a leader who leads with love and compassion, demonstrating the power of these qualities in leadership. Our conversation with Dee is a reminder that compassion and empathy are not signs of weakness, but rather, tools for personal growth and resilience.
Selden âDeeâ Kelley is a lifelong learner and a beacon of knowledge. With five degrees, his academic prowess is unmatched. He served 18 years as the Pastor of the First Church of the Nazarene in San Diego, demonstrating his deep understanding of faith and its intersection with personal development.
A driving force in his life is to help others discover the rich guidance that dream work can provide for their journey toward health and wholeness. He now helps people connect with the power of their dreams as a pathway toward new insight, better decision-making and improved creative thinking.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
Why Dee wanted to open a conversation about the relationship between the LGTBQIA+ community and the church, and why he has no regrets despite the consequencesHow Dee came to realize that the things he feared in others were invitations for learning and growthWhy we need to commit to having hard conversations even when we donât know the outcomeHow a strong sense of values and identity apart from his position in the church softened the loss of his role and credentialsHow Deeâs case sits in the larger context of faith communities grappling with and declaring how they will relate to LGBTQIA+ communitiesLearn more about Dee Kelley:
WebsiteInstagram: @drdeedreamscoachLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
The Daring WayâąEP 02: How Self-Leadership Saves You From The Relentless Drive To Succeed with Dr. Richard SchwartzA Hope For ChangeWhy We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams, Matthew WalkerAstridWomen Talking -
What are you deliberate about in your life?
What does living deliberately mean to you?
Would you say that youâre a deliberate person? Would those who know you say that you are deliberate in how you live your life and lead?
Living deliberately can be a real challenge, especially when weâre constantly dealing with unexpected issues and navigating through the many crises in our world. The pace of life is so fast, it often feels impossible to slow down and reflect before taking action.
But thereâs something deeply important about being deliberate if we want to cultivate life, work, and relationships that align with our values. It is messy, awkward, and challenging, but it is so worth it.
Todayâs guest has built a career that serves her personal needs, values, interests, and skills through deliberate action, even when it flies in the face of conventional wisdom about entrepreneurship.
Our guest today, Laura Roeder, is a true inspiration. She's a lifelong entrepreneur and the founder of several bootstrapped companies that have each reached multi-million dollar status. Her ventures include Paperbell, CoachCompare, MeetEdgar, Marie Forleoâs B-School, and LKR Social Media. She's been recognized as one of the top 100 entrepreneurs under 30 and has shared her insights on entrepreneurship at prestigious venues like the White House, the Virgin Unites Branson Centre of Entrepreneurship, the University of Southern California, and Loyola Marymount University.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Lauraâs desire for time freedom has impacted her decision-making as a business ownerHow launching a business immediately before having her first child fundamentally changed the way Laura has run every venture sinceWhy leaders need to let go of the belief that they canât teach someone else to do what they do How owning up to your mistakes and the steps youâve taken to fix them builds trustHow Laura has navigated her desire to work and to lead after selling a company for a life-changing amount of moneyLearn more about Laura Roeder:
BlogPaperbellInstagram: @bypaperbellLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
The One Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth about Extraordinary Results, Gary KellerNo, Wealth is Not a Measure of Value CreationExit Interview: The Life and Death of My Ambitious Career, Kristi CoulterFlorence and the MachineLove is BlindSaved by the BellWaking Up -
Do you have thoughts about how the word âtraumaâ and other therapy-speak terms have bled into our day-to-day conversations in person, at work, and on social media?
Do you feel pressure to perform being âokay,â even when youâre anything but?
Have you ever pursued a project or career milestone only to realize, once you achieved it, that it no longer fits your life, values, or interests?
Todayâs guest is a long-time, respected colleague who joins me for a profound and thought-provoking conversation about all of the above and then some. Itâs a privilege to have people with whom we can engage in deep conversations without hesitation or self-editing; this chat is no exception.
Our guest, Sarah Buino, is a renowned speaker, educator, and therapist. She is the founder of Head/Heart Therapy, Inc. and Head/Heart Business Therapy, and a member of the adjunct faculty at Loyola University Chicago. Sarah is also a podcast host, known for her series, âConversations With a Wounded Healer' and 'The Burnt Out Practice Owner.â Her work focuses on the role of personal healing in caregiving and the challenges of group therapy practice ownership.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How the concept of ordinary trauma helped Sarah recognize what was and wasnât her responsibility as she healedThe essential difference between discomfort and trauma and how it relates to our relationship with agencyWhy being âokayâ is just a data point, not a destinationHow mindful awareness sets the stage for healing, regardless of modalityWhy Sarah maintains that therapy is political and that we have to lead through values and relationshipsHow Sarah and her colleagues brought their values into their group practiceHow Sarah came to realize that she was done owning her practice and ready to move onLearn more about Sarah Buino:
Head/Heart Business TherapyInstagram: @HeadHeartBizTherapyConversations with a Wounded Healer PodcastThe SarahsLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
How trauma became the word of the decade â and the Covid-19 pandemic - VoxWhat is NARM?Farewell, Strategic Accommodation, An Elegy to White Supremacy by Sarah SuzukiDecolonizing Therapy for Black Folk 2024Politicizing Your PracticeLiving In The Tension: The Quest for a Spiritualized Racial Justice, Shelley TochlukOlivia Rodrigo - vampireThe Secret of Skinwalker RanchSaved by the Bell -
What does healing mean to you?
What expectations do you hold around how we heal and how quickly we heal?
Meeting our basic human need to be loved and experience belonging can be the root of many things we do, say, and wantâfor better or for worse.
Many of us have experienced relationships that shape how we pursue love and belonging, how we respond to folks who are different or have differences, how we handle conflict, and how we navigate not being perfect and not knowing all the answers.
So, how we seek love and belonging and perceive and pursue healing are inextricably connected.
Under those circumstances, we want to rush our healing process, achieve our desired changes, and be fixed as soon as possible. The stakes are high!
But we do not arrive at âhealedâ and coast for the rest of our lives. There is no three-step plan to change, heal, and thrive ever after.
Healing is a lifelong process that must be pursued and revisited with the ebbs and flows of our lives. Sometimes, those ebbs and flows feel like tsunamis, forcing us to revisit old wounds or discover new spaces in our stories that require our care and attention so that we can find love and belonging within, first and foremost.
Frank Anderson, MD, returns to the show to discuss his beautiful new book, To Be Loved: A Story of Truth, Trauma, and Transformation.
Frank Anderson, MD, completed his residency and was a clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. He is an author, psychiatrist, therapist, speaker, and trauma specialist whoâs spent the past three decades studying neuroscience and trauma treatment. He is passionate about teaching brain-based psychotherapy and integrating current neuroscience knowledge with the IFS therapy model. His published work spans contributions to literature and training for a clinical audience and works accessible to the general public.
Content Warning: We cover some heavy topics around verbal and physical abuse, conversion therapy, and suicidal ideation. Please take care as you listen to this conversation.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How the process of writing his memoir caused Frank to interact with his past in ways that surprised himThe tricky balance of telling stories honestly but from a loving place, especially with his familyHow releasing his anger and coming to forgive and love people who harmed him gave Frank space and freedom to forgive himself for the harm he has doneWhy Frank says healing happens first emotionally and somatically within yourself, and then you can work towards relational healing and forgivenessHow different phases of Frankâs life have influenced what and how trauma he unpacked and releasedWhy do we have to stop clinging to divisive polarities and recognize the good and bad in ourselves and each otherLearn more about Frank Anderson, MD:
WebsiteInstagram: @frank_andersonmdFacebook: @mdfrankandersonConnect on LinkedInTo Be Loved: A Story of Truth, Trauma, and TransformationTranscending Trauma: Healing Complex Ptsd with Internal Family SystemsLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
Open Monogamy: A Guide to Co-Creating Your Ideal Relationship Agreement, Tammy NelsonConan Gray - HeatherP!NK - TRUSTFALLFellow Travelers -
If you love, you experience loss.
Looking back over the last few years, who or what have you lost? A loved one, a friendship, a relationship, a pet, a job, your health, your community? Something else?
Have you had time to reflect on and grieve your losses and find meaning and sense in all you experienced?
And how do you talk about your losses with those around you, if at all?
We cannot engineer the experience of grief out of our lives, but many try, at a significant cost, to their well-being, their relationships, and their ability to function, connect, and lead.
Grief will always do its job regardless of our response to griefâs presence. And the more we try to avoid the heartbreak, mess, awkwardness, outrage, and vulnerability, the more we disconnect from our humanity and those around us.
So, the question for us is: How will we respond when grief comes knocking in our personal lives, work, and world?
Joon âJ.S.â Park is a hospital chaplain, former atheist/agnostic, sixth-degree black belt, suicide survivor, and Korean-American, a person of faith and valuer of all.
He is the author of As Long As You Need: Permission to Grieve, part hospital chaplain experience and memoir, and The Voices We Carry: Finding Your One True Voice in a World of Clamor and Noise.
J.S. currently serves at a top-ranked, 1,000+ bed hospital and was a chaplain for three years at one of the largest nonprofit charities for the unhoused on the East Coast.
Content note: This conversation covers topics around sexual abuse, suicide, and experiences of racism. Joonâs message and heart feel healing and gracious as he shares some tender issues. But please take care of yourself as you move through this beautiful conversation.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
The physical toll of unacknowledged accumulated grief that J.S. took on through his chaplaincy trainingHow contending with pervasive and severe suffering daily challenged and reshaped J.S.âs faithHow he began to grapple with his experiences of abuse, racism and internalized shameWhy we need to learn to engage with a range of grief and validate our responses to it to healWhat we can learn about others when they use clichĂ©s and platitudes in response to griefHow working closely with grief has changed J.S.âs concept of what it means to be successfulLearn more about J.S. Park:
Instagram: @jspark3000Facebook: @jspark3000As Long As You Need: Permission to GrieveThe Voices We Carry: Finding Your One True Voice in a World of Clamor and NoiseLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Meditations of the Heart, Howard ThurmanWhat We Kept to Ourselves, Nancy Jooyoun KimThe Last Story of Mina Lee, Nancy Jooyoun KimDeparturesAndorBeyond the Infinite Two Minutes -
Are you aware of all the expectations you hold yourself to?
The day-to-day buzzing of our inner life can feel relentless, can't it? We're all too familiar with the bombardment of 'shoulds' about how we should act, dress, talk, move, etc. It's a struggle that resonates with each one of us, making us feel understood in our shared experiences.
We carry so many shoulds from our family of origin, culture, difficult life experiences, work experiences, people we respect, and people who we want to respect us.
But the shoulds that mess with us the most and lead to the heaviest burdens are the stealth shoulds around what we should and should not feel.
Todayâs guest, Dr. Alison Cook, returns for the third time to share her transformative new book. This isn't just a guide that addresses these 'shoulds ', it's an empowering invitation to unpack our stealth expectations of ourselves and our world. It's an invitation to approach the 'shoulds' that show up in our lives with curiosity and compassion, paving the way for personal growth and self-improvement.
Dr. Alison Cook is a psychologist and teacher who has spent two decades helping individuals name what's hard and take brave steps to transform their lives. She is also a best-selling author, teacher, and host of The Best of You podcast. She co-authored Boundaries for Your Soul and is the author of The Best of You, and I Shouldnât Feel This Way. Alison is also a certified Internal Family Systems therapist, a dear friend, and a trusted colleague.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
The internal tension and disorientation Alison experienced when she couldnât accomplish what she âshouldâ haveHow following her systemâs lead led Alison to make a surprising connection to another pivotal transition in her lifeUnpacking the familial and cultural origins of our shoulds around work and successThe high personal and social stakes of not making space to name what weâre feeling Why itâs vital to be able to discern who can best support you in processing what youâre going throughHow to cultivate space for yourself to witness the hard things, rather than bypassing from naming to fixingLearn more about Alison Cook, PhD:
WebsiteThe Best of You PodcastInstagram: @dralisoncookI Shouldnât Feel This WayLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Ep 50: Embracing the Hot Mess: A Special Anniversary Episode with Alison Cook, PhDEP 25: The Boundary Barriers of Leadership with Psychologist and Author Alison Cook, PhDNotes to Myself: My Struggle to Become a Person, Hugh PratherDaily Affirmation: Valentine's Day - Saturday Night LiveCircle of Grace: A Book of Blessings for the Seasons, Jan RichardsonBob Marley & The Wailers - Redemption SongBob Marley: One LoveFriendsPretty in Pink -
Many of us are familiar with the kind of person who easily earns the moniker âtoxicâ and instills fear, rage, and frustration in those around them.
What do you do when you work with a toxic leader?
How do you feel when toxic leaders continue to get promoted and receive accolades?
And what do you do when others make excuses for these toxic leaders, like saying their skill set or network is too important to the organization and you have to âtake the good with the bad?â
Toxic leaders and cultures take a toll on you, especially when you have your own relational wounding history. You may try to speak up or feel shut down, but thereâs another common theme: How betrayed you feel when your experiences are met with silence, inaction, or retribution.
We're at a critical moment regarding leading, accountability, and culture. But one thing that still feels constant is the impact of our history with relational wounding and relational trauma, and how that impacts how, or if, we speak up in the face of injustices from toxic leaders and toxic work culture.
Todayâs guest wrote a book on the impact of toxic leaders and cultures, including how we often protect toxic leaders at great expense to the staff and the business. As someone who was bullied both as a child and in the workplace, she has some very special insight into this all-too-common experience.
Mita Mallick is a corporate change-maker with a track record of transforming businesses. She has had an extensive career as a marketer in the beauty and consumer product goods space, fiercely advocating for the inclusion and representation of Black and Brown communities. Her book, Reimagine Inclusion: Debunking 13 Myths to Transform Your Workplace, is a Wall Street Journal and USA Today Best Seller.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
The practical toll on the business of enabling toxic leaders to continue to manage teamsThe psychological and physical impact of the workplace trauma created by working under toxic leadersHow people end up in environments that recreate the harmful relational patterns of their pastWhy those with more power in the workplace need to speak up on behalf of othersHow executive coaching can be used as a Band-Aid to cover toxic behaviorHow guilt and empathy for the teammates weâd leave behind can keep us stuck in toxic environmentsLearn more about Mita Mallick:
Connect with Mita on LinkedInBrown Table Talk PodcastReimagine Inclusion: Debunking 13 Myths to Transform Your WorkplaceLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
Glossy: Ambition, Beauty, and the Inside Story of Emily Weiss's Glossier, Marisa MeltzerSia - UnstoppableBreaking Bad -
Do you feel frustrated by recurring struggles with self-doubt, hypervigilance, and overwhelm?
Behind many of your inner doubts, self-judgements, fears, and insecurities lie echoes from old betrayals or relational hurts.
These breaches of trust in important relationships donât necessarily lose their impact on how you lead and work just because they happened a long time ago.
So when you're doing something new or high stakes, or there's an experience in a relationship at work or in your personal life, or you respond to a collective trauma that taps the echoes of your old wound, it can bring up old ways of responding or old patterns that impact how you honor your boundaries and values.
And the expectation that you should âbe over this by nowâ when you are human and working with others adds to your stress and frustration.
But the reality is that healing from relational wounds and betrayal traumas often comes in stages and seasons, and you may need support along the way.
Deran Young is a licensed therapist, New York Times Best-Selling Author, former military mental health officer, and the founder of Black Therapists Rock. This nonprofit organization mobilizes over 30,000 mental health professionals committed to reducing the psychological impact of systemic oppression and intergenerational trauma.
She obtained her social work degree from the University of Texas, where she studied abroad in Ghana, West Africa for two semesters, creating a high school counseling center for under-resourced students. She is a highly sought-after diversity and inclusion consultant working with companies like Facebook, Linked In, Field Trip Health, and YWCA. Deran has become a leading influencer and public figure committed to spreading mental health awareness and improving health equity.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
The importance of learning to recognize the cultural and familial legacy burdens that impact usHow shame and an inability to be vulnerable shut down speaking the truth about cultural and personal historiesHow early relational trauma can lead people to feeling out of place, not just at home, but in the world at largeWhy our earliest experiences with our caregivers have such a deep impact on our relationships later in lifeThe lasting impact of the roles we take on as children in dysfunctional families in how we lead ourselves and othersHow cultural expectations and perfectionism can dehumanize mothers and leadersThe potential for psychedelic-assisted therapy to change our relationships with our burdensLearn more about Deran Young:
Black Therapists RockInstagram: @blacktherapistsrockTikTok: @blacktherapistsrockBlack Therapists Rock Facebook GroupFollow Deran on FacebookLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional FamiliesThe Happiest Baby on the Block: The New Way to Calm Crying and Help Your Newborn Baby Sleep Longer, Harvey KarpThe Gifts of Imperfection, Brené BrownDaring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead, Brené BrownRage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger, Soraya ChemalyEP 73: The Potential of Psychedelics to Help and Heal with Victor CabralWhole Brain Living: The Anatomy of Choice and the Four Characters That Drive Our Life, Jill Bolte TaylorBeyoncé - COZYElemental -
Have you ever done something steadily, week in and week out, for a period of time?
What did you learn about yourself and the world around you in the process? Was there anything that came up that surprised you?
Putting in consistent reps and hundreds of hours towards something inevitably shapes and changes you, and producing this show has been no different for me.
Today Iâm celebrating the 100th episode of The Unburdened Leader by sharing some behind-the-scenes stories, learnings, and reflections from starting a podcast in a pandemic to the pillars and themes of the show that have stood out over time.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How unburdened leaders shape healing and growth through vulnerability and a willingness to be uncomfortableHow wrestling with perfectionism in the beginning has eased into taking actual pleasure in the process of working on the showThe positive impact of finding certainty anchors in the rhythms of productionHow good questions beget good questions, and how that guides who I want to have on the showLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Yellow House MediaInternal Family SystemsGlass Onion -
Have you ended a relationship to get relief from tension and conflict?
Do you struggle with developing a clear sense of boundaries around whatâs your responsibility and whatâs not, especially when feeling responsible for how others think and feel?
When relationships are toxic, abusive, and oppressive and the other person does not have the interest or capacity to work on the relationship, ending the relationship can bring grief but also relief, emotional healing, and health.
But when you regularly use emotional cutoffs to protect yourself from hurt and discomfort, you create a world that feels dangerous and small when the slightest sense of conflict or overwhelm arises.
But if two people can come together with clear boundaries, shared values, compassion, curiosity, humility, and support to work through conflict and disagreement, an emotional cut-off may become unnecessary.
My guest today returns to the podcast to share his experience of an incident that could have ended his relationship with his father, and how they both committed to working through the conflict to maintain their connection, even through their differences.
Jonathan Merritt is a prolific and trusted writer on faith, culture, and politics whose articles have appeared regularly in outlets such as The Atlantic, The New York Times, USA Today, Christianity Today, and The Washington Post. He is the author of numerous critically acclaimed books, including Learning to Speak God from Scratch: Why Sacred Words are Vanishing and How We Can Revive Them, which was named Book of the Year by Englewood Review of Books. He is also author of the forthcoming childrenâs book, My Guncle and Me, releasing in May 2024.
Jonathan has become a popular speaker at conferences, colleges, and churches and guest commentary on CNN, Fox News, CNN, NPR, PBS, and ABC World News. He holds graduate degrees from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and Emory University's Candler School of Theology.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How being publicly outed forced Jonathan into a reckoning with his faith, his identity, and his family and communityThe role that dreams and expectations play in the way both parents and children respond to fundamental differences between themWhy an expectation of change cannot be a prerequisite for a relationshipWhy Jonathan says he and his father fight with each other in private and for each other in publicWhy finding healthy surrogates or outlets for processing is vital for healing when we truly canât continue the relationshipNavigating past avoidance and confrontation to renegotiating the relationship with necessary boundaries and guardrailsHow âflash-card faithâ stifles the questioning and openness to possibilities that underpin trust and faith and breeds binary divisivenessLearn more about Jonathan Merritt:
WebsiteFacebook: @JonathanMerrittWriterInstagram: @jonathan_merrittTwitter: @JonathanMerrittLearning to Speak God from Scratch: Why Sacred Words Are Vanishingâand How We Can Revive ThemPreorder My Guncle and MeLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Bowen Family SystemsFaith does not live by answers alone, Jonathan MerrittThe Artist's Way, Julia CameronWrite for Life: Creative Tools for Every Writer, Julia CameronMother, Nature: A 5,000-Mile Journey to Discover If a Mother and Son Can Survive Their Differences, Jedidiah JenkinsDarlin' (Christmas is Coming), Over the RhineIf We Make It Through December, Phoebe BridgersIf We Make It Through December, Merle HaggardJulia -
What is your relationship with conflict and disagreement?
Do you see conflict as bad or dangerous or simply a natural part of relationships and being in a group or on a team?
What helps you move through conflict and differences of opinion when things are heavy and charged?
Do you avoid it at all costs? Or do you try to be a peacemaker and help everyone feel heard? Or do you dive right into the arena and take a stand for what you believe?
You probably vacillate between all of these depending on the topic, the people you are around, how you experienced conflict growing up, and the combination of your unique personality, temperament, gender, race, class, etc.
Todayâs guest shares a framework that offers a way to contain our overwhelm into some actionable practices that can help you connect to your purpose and your values while navigating the discomfort of disagreement, high-stakes decisions, and deep exhaustion.
Deepa Iyer is a South Asian American writer, strategist, and lawyer. Deepa leads projects on solidarity and social movements at the Building Movement Project, a national nonprofit organization. She conducts workshops and trainings, uplifts narratives through the Solidarity Is This podcast, and facilitates solidarity strategy for cohorts and networks.
Deepaâs first book, We Too Sing America: South Asian, Arab, Muslim, and Sikh Immigrants Shape Our Multiracial Future, chronicles community-based histories in the wake of 9/11 and received a 2016 American Book Award. Deepaâs most recent book, a guide based on the social change ecosystem map that she created, is called Social Change Now: A Guide for Reflection and Connection.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
The three main components of an ecosystem-based approach to social changeHow an ecosystem creates a container where we can have uncomfortable conversations around our valuesWhy a clash in values isnât an indicator of an unhealthy ecosystemHow ecosystems for social justice allow us to play to our strengths even in urgent times sustainablyQuestions to ask and red flags of an unhealthy ecosystemWhy finding joy in the midst of heartbreak is essential to sustainable movementsWhy itâs key to consider who holds power inside and outside an ecosystem when calling out bad behavior or policyLearn more about Deepa Iyer:
WebsiteSolidarity Is This PodcastWe Too Sing America: South Asian, Arab, Muslim, and Sikh Immigrants Shape Our Multiracial FutureSocial Change Now: A Guide for Reflection and ConnectionInstagram: @deepaviyerX: @dviyerLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
(Un)known Project TrailSolidarity Is This: Truth Telling From The Banks of the Ohio River with Hannah Drake and Josh MillerMeena AlexanderHonor, Thrity UmrigarThe Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917-2017, Rashid KhalidiThe Mountain Goats - This YearBorgenThe Outsiders, S.E. HintonNothing Gold Can Stay, Robert FrostThe Social Change MapBuilding Movement Project -
Do you find yourself in a constant state of proving? Proving that you are a good enough leader, parent, partner, fill in the blank?
Do you know what drives your need to prove to others and yourself?
When does the need to prove you are good enough and worthy enough show up the most? At work, in your relationships with others, or maybe in your relationship with yourself?
When you fall into a constant state of proving your worthiness and value, your unaddressed relational wounds fuel an excessive need for validation and recognition from those around you that exhausts and leaves you in an excessive loop of hustling, anxiety, and doubt.
But when you commit to doing the work to understand your underlying motivations to constantly prove yourself, you can release these burdens and develop a more secure, confident approach to leadership, relationships, and conflict resolution in all areas of your life.
Arielle âEstoria (she/her) is a poet, author, actor, and model. Her motto, "Words not for the ears but for the soul" stems from her dedication to remind anyone who encounters her work that words are meant to be felt and experienced not just heard, with a specific heart in empowering, encouraging and making space for audiences of women to feel free and at home in their own bodies.
Arielle has shared her work through custom spoken word pieces, workshops and themed keynote talks with companies such as Google, Sofar Sounds, Lululemon, Dressember, Tedx, the SKIMS campaign by Kim Kardashian and more. She has consecutively emceed annual conferences and has led various writing, embodiment and self-acceptance workshops in various settings ranging from students to professional development spaces.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Arielle has worked to cut ties with people pleasing and learned not to constantly explain herselfHow Arielle defines âsecure provingâ versus âinsecure provingâ in her lifeHow we can try so hard to prove ourselves that we forget the self weâre trying to proveBalancing performance and authenticity online, and how social media makes it hard to show up as your full selfHow Arielle defines success for herself, outside of the linear path through life that she was taughtLearn more about Arielle Estoria:
WebsiteInstagram: @arielleestoriaVagabonds and ZealotsWrite Bloody, Spill PrettyThe UnfoldingLearn more about Rebecca:
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Thicker Than Water: A Memoir, Kerry WashingtonCleo WadeSula, Toni MorrisonJamila WoodsMaddie ZahmReservation DogsOnly Murders in the Building -
What is your relationship with your anger?
How much of your stress and exhaustion is fueled by repressed anger and rage?
And how do you respond when those around you express anger?
Our experiences early in life, experiences at our places of work and education, and our conditioning from culture all play significant roles in how we view and respond to anger and rage within and around us.
And for womenâespecially Black and brown womenâwe learn our anger and rage come off as unbecoming and distancing, which can be the death of a promotion, a deal, or financial advancement.
Many experience firsthand the negative impact of expressing our anger, which can bring about a dangerous backlash that can impact not only our well-being but also our safety.
But when we shift the focus from seeing anger solely as dangerous or something to be feared and instead befriend and learn from it, so much changes in how we lead and do life.
Todayâs guest wrote a beautifully written and well-cited book documenting the impact of suppressed rage in women on themselves and those around them.
Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning author and activist. She writes and speaks frequently on topics related to gender norms, inclusivity, social justice, free speech, sexualized violence, and technology. She is the former Executive Director of The Representation Project and Director and Co-Founder of the Womenâs Media Center Speech Project, and also the author of Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Womenâs Anger, which was recognized as a Best Book of 2018 by the Washington Post, Fast Company, Psychology Today, and NPR.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How suppressing anger harms more than just the individualHow rage is justified and tolerated differently for men and womenHow niceness and a focus on the feelings of others is socialized into girls from an early ageThe anger that hides underneath stress, disappointment, and other ways women minimize their angerThe long-term impacts and risks of suppressed anger on physical and mental healthLearn more about Soraya Chemaly:
WebsiteInstagram: @sorayachemalyââRage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's AngerLearn more about Rebecca:
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Braving the Wilderness, Brené BrownReproduction, Louisa HallDo You Know Me By Heart, Cameron AveryJames Blake - Say What You WillImogen Heap - Hide And Seek -
When you experience injustice, how do you respond?
Do you immediately speak up and fight back?
Maybe you get introspective and go deep into reflection, weighing out different options and scenarios before deciding how or whether to take action.
Or do you suppress your authentic emotions and maintain a facade until you have figured out your next move?
Many factors inform how you respond to threats and injusticeâyour values, life experiences, personality and temperament, identities, and privilegesâto name just a few.
Todayâs guest moved me profoundly with his responses in the days, weeks, and months following the January 6th insurrection in the face of many critics, threats, and risks. Not speaking up would have felt inauthentic for him, leaving him feeling out of alignment.
New York Times best selling author, Harry Dunn,served in the United States Capitol Police from 2008 to 2023. He has been on duty for presidential inaugurations, joint sessions of Congress, State of the Union addresses as well as hundreds of peaceful protests and demonstrations.
For his role defending the Capitol on January 6, 2021, Dunn received the Presidential Citizens Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the Capitol Police Service Medal, the Capitol Police Achievement Medal, the Gus Heningburg Award from the African American Chamber of Commerce in New Jersey, and the Concerned Black Men Award. He has been outspoken about his experience, testifying in congressional hearings and speaking in the media about the violence he experienced that day and its aftermath.
His memoir, Standing My Ground: A Capitol Officerâs Fight for Accountability and Good Trouble After January 6th provides a firsthand account of what happened that day and the ramifications it has on our political and legal systems, democracy, communities, and individuals.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Officer Dunn knew he needed to move from isolated and processing the events to speaking outHow Officer Dunn has navigated using his anger a purposeful forceThe fine balancing act of speaking as a citizen versus as a Capitol Police officer as he took his story publicHow speaking out and testifying at trials and in front of Congress was both a painful and ultimately healing experienceThe values and faith in democracy that keep Officer Dunn going back to work at the CapitolLearn more about Office Harry Dunn:
Twitter: @libradunnStanding My Ground: A Capitol Police Officer's Fight for Accountability and Good Trouble After January 6thLearn more about Rebecca:
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Michael Jackson - We're Almost ThereSaturday Night LiveBlack Panther: Wakanda Forever -
What worked for you in 2023? What did not work this year?
What data did you collect about yourself, your work, and your relationships?
What do you want to take into 2024, and what do you want to leave behind?
Yes, itâs that time of year when I share one of my favorite and most fruitful practices of looking back and looking forward - my annual debrief.
My debrief practice teaches me the power of pausing, reflecting - especially on my words of the year, and honoring lessons learned, victories achieved, and wounds that need care so I can look forward more clearly and confidently. And this year taught me a lot.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How focusing on space and pace challenged my tendency to associate my identity with what I doThe challenges that came up as I really forced myself to slow down and reflect on what I want life to look like in an upcoming season of transitionExperiences this year that were fun, healing, and joyfulThe practices and supports Iâm carrying forward into 2024What aspects of Space and Pace are bearing fruit as 2023 comes to a close and what Iâm focusing on for 2024Learn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
How I've Changed My Thinking About Burnout, Anne Helen PetersenOn the life that wants to live in you., Laura McKowenParker PalmerStephen CoveyConspiritualityMaintenance PhaseWhy Is This Happening? with Rachel MaddowââPrequel: An American Fight Against Fascism, Rachel MaddowFriendsNyadAre You There God? It's Me, Margaret. Sitting in Bars with Cake AirCocaine BearYou Are So Not Invited to My Bat MitzvahBoston StranglerOld Dads BarbieGuardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3Ant-Man and the Wasp: QuantumaniaThe FlashIndiana Jones and the Dial of DestinyFinding YouSomebody I Used to KnowFleishman Is in TroubleBased on a True StoryThe PowerDeadlochThe DiplomatWednesdayShiny Happy People: Duggar Family SecretsThe Murdaugh MurdersThe Last of UsCase HistoriesThe TowerClass of '07Jury DutyHuntersYouPainkillerDaisy Jones & The SixBosch: LegacyOnly Murders in the BuildingLessons in ChemistryThe Morning ShowShrinkingThe Lincoln LawyerBodiesQueen Charlotte: A Bridgerton StoryThe Mother - Vis mere
