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Syria is carving a new path forward after the overthrow of Bashar al-Assad. While the country’s future remains uncertain, Mehdi Hasan and Owen Jones have a brutally honest and outspoken conversation in London about how the Western Left has reacted to the fall of the Assad regime.
“Yes, Israel may benefit from the fall of Assad,” Mehdi argues, “And yes, the United States did want Assad to fall and spent millions of dollars. But so did Syrian people. And we shouldn’t strip them of their agency and their desires.”
Owen adds, “It is important that we, on the Left, keep our house in order, and we have a universal, emancipatory project which is about freeing people from all forms of oppression, violence, wherever that comes from. You know, the United States of America, they pick and choose. It’s what they did with Saddam Hussein for a long time … It’s Orwellian.”
The two also unpack the double standards when it comes to Syria and Palestine. “On the pro-Palestine side, you have some people who are pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel … But then when it comes to Syria, they're pro-Assad, which I find inconsistent morally and politically,” Mehdi says, pointing out that Western powers do the reverse — backing an al-Qaeda offshoot in Syria, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), while obsessing over Hamas in Gaza.
As Syria begins to rebuild after Assad, Owen emphasizes the importance of anti-imperialism: “We need an anti imperialism, which is also about consistent liberation and not dictatorship, because the point with Assad is he used that rhetoric for legitimacy rather than actually practical help for the Palestinians.”
Watch the full show above to hear Mehdi and Owen get into this lively, impassioned, and timely discussion, including on Israel’s seizure of Syrian land — they don’t hold back! And for those of you who are paid subscribers, join the conversation in the comments. We love to hear what you think of this episode of ‘Two Outspoken.’
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This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit zeteo.com
In the latest episode of ‘Two Outspoken’, Mehdi and Owen talk through what this historic period in American history means - what many are calling the decline of the U.S.. From how it resembles the former Soviet Union in its dying days; to how Donald Trump - if he wins! - is planning to rebuild the nation in his autocratic image; to the implications around the world for human rights and international law, especially when it comes to Israel and Palestine.
Watch the full discussion above, read more about it below, or have a listen wherever you get your podcasts: ‘Two Outspoken’ is available on Spotify and Apple.
And for paid subscribers, don’t forget to tell us what you think in the comments - including what Mehdi and Owen should discuss in the next episode!
On J.D. Vance…
Mehdi and Owen delve into the rise of J.D. Vance as Trump’s running mate. They discuss Vance's glaring inability to bring in new votes and what that signals about Trump’s confidence.
“He's a hardcore, right-wing Republican,” says Owen, about Vance. “He talks about sacking all civil servants, replacing them with ‘our people’ - basically a coup d'etat!”
On America’s decline…
Mehdi and Owen go on to discuss the broader implications of the U.S.’s decline, comparing it to the late USSR. Owen explains why he’s likened Biden to Brezhnev and Trump to Putin in a recent Guardian column.
But what is the cost of “burning the system down”? Mehdi cautions against what it could lead to.
On Europe’s genocide hypocrisy…
In their discussion on foreign policy, Mehdi and Owen call out the politicians of the West for not seeing the Palestinian people as human beings, and the brazen double standards that have been revealed over the course of the last 9 months of genocidal violence in Gaza.
From the hypocrisy of figures like new Labour Foreign Secretary David Lammy of the UK, meeting with the same Netanyahu he used to berate on Twitter, to the German government trying to stop the ICC case against Netanyahu and becoming involved in yet another genocide, Mehdi and Owen don’t hold back in their criticisms of the people in power. They are, after all, ‘Two Outspoken.’
PROGRAMMING NOTE: Mehdi and Owen will be taking a (well-deserved?) break from ‘Two Outspoken’ in the month of August but will be coming back with new episodes in September. Stay tuned!
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Mehdi and Owen Jones met up in London this week to debrief the significant UK election results - and to vent about all the things the media hasn’t been covering about it!
“I landed at Heathrow Airport last night, and I had a little spring in my step,” Mehdi tells Owen. “England won the quarter final. Liz Truss lost her seat.”
Owen’s equally excited about what this means for the left.
“I’m really optimistic,” he tells Mehdi. “Now these Labour MPs have to look over their shoulders at voters opting for the Green Party.”
The truth is, as Owen explains in this episode, Labour won “a Jenga landslide.”
So, what does that mean going forward? And why is the media obsessed with Nigel Farage and Reform? Where’s the coverage of the independents who won on Gaza, and the Greens?
Watch Mehdi and Owen in the video above discuss everything you need to know about the UK election results in this special episode of Two Outspoken.
You can also listen to the Two Outspoken podcast on Apple and Spotify.
This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit zeteo.com/subscribe -
In the latest episode of ‘Two Outspoken’, Mehdi and Owen discuss the rescue in Gaza that saved four Israelis but also killed hundreds of Palestinians in the process, proving how little value Israel’s far-right government - and its Western allies - place on Palestinian’s lives. They also debunk U.S. government talking points on how Israel has accepted a ceasefire deal but Hamas hasn’t.
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‘Two Outspoken’ is a twice-monthly conversation between broadcaster, author, and Zeteo Editor-in-Chief Mehdi Hasan and political commentator, author, and activist Owen Jones. Mehdi and Owen will be discussing the news of the week, offering their analysis on the state of American and British politics, and even, from time to time, taking questions from Zeteo subscribers.
This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit zeteo.com/subscribe -
In this episode, Owen and Mehdi discuss the UK’s looming July 4th election, the Labour Party’s decision to suspend Faiza Shaheen’s candidacy, and Nigel Farage’s latest attempt to normalize Islamophobia.
Mehdi brings up UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s not-so-hopeful start to the campaign, when he got soaked in rain while announcing the early election date. This election comes as Sunak’s Conservative Party has become widely unpopular, after going through three different prime ministers in the space of one parliament with no election.
“The Conservatives have just destroyed themselves more comprehensively than any government ever in British democratic history,” Owen told Mehdi.
As polls predict a huge defeat for Sunak and the Conservatives in the general election, Mehdi and Owen discuss the current state of the Labour Party, including the party’s recent decision to suspend the campaign of left-wing candidate Faiza Shaheen. Her wrong doing? Liking a tweet about a Jon Stewart sketch.
“It's an old clip and a tweet describing what's happening in the clip, and the intensity with which pro-Israel figures, the pro-Israel lobby, people in the media, go crazy if you dare to criticize Israel or say things that people don't want to hear. And that gets her suspended,” Mehdi said to Owen.
“What makes their [the Labour Party] heart beat a little bit faster is crushing left-wing opponents. And the fact she's spoken out on Gaza is definitely something which has made them want to get rid of her,” Owen added.
On the topic of Gaza, Mehdi called out the U.S. State Department for refusing to call Israel’s invasion of Rafah a full ground invasion, comparing John Kirby to Comical Ali. Mehdi and Owen also discussed Nigel Farage’s Islamophobic comments on Sky News last weekend, as well as the irony of Farage being interviewed by a host with his own history of Islamophobia.
‘Two Outspoken’ is a twice-monthly conversation between broadcaster, author, and Zeteo Editor-in-Chief Mehdi Hasan and political commentator, author, and activist Owen Jones. Mehdi and Owen will be discussing the news of the week, offering their analysis on the state of American and British politics, and even, from time to time, taking questions from Zeteo subscribers.
This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit zeteo.com/subscribe -
The International Criminal Court Chief Prosecutor announced Monday that he is seeking arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity. In response, ‘Two Outspoken’ hosted a special breaking news town hall for Zeteo paid subscribers where Owen and Mehdi were joined by two guests: former PLO legal adviser Diana Buttu and Israeli academic Ilan Pappé.
Paid subscribers were able to ask their questions directly to Owen, Mehdi, Buttu and Pappé.
They discussed how the ICC’s prosecution team is also seeking warrants for Israel’s Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, as well as two other Hamas leaders — Mohammed Diab Ibrahim al-Masri, and Ismail Haniyeh. They also covered what a shock it is for the Israeli political class to find itself held to account by international legal institutions; and whether this move will change anything on the ground for Palestinians.
‘Two Outspoken’ is a twice-monthly conversation between broadcaster, author, and Zeteo CEO Mehdi Hasan and political commentator, author, and activist Owen Jones. Mehdi and Owen will be discussing the news of the week, offering their analysis on the state of American and British politics, and even, like today, taking questions from Zeteo paid subscribers.
Zeteo’s live town halls and Q&A sessions are a bonus feature for paid subscribers. If you would like to join the next one live, please consider upgrading to a paid subscription.
This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit zeteo.com/subscribe -
In this episode:
Owen and Mehdi discuss the ongoing misrepresentation of college protests in the mainstream media, the debate over genocide in Gaza, and the London mayoral elections. They discuss how college and antiwar protests have long been demonized to undermine public support for them, and how the term "genocide" is deliberately and conveniently mis-defined by supporters of Israel.
Plus, Mehdi takes us back in time to read Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s letter from a Birmingham jail about the “white moderate,” and reflects on its relevance to modern-day politicians, particularly in light of recent comments made by President Joe Biden.
Owen criticizes Biden's approach on all this, accusing him of fetishizing past struggles while vilifying current protests. He highlights MLK's historical unpopularity and draws parallels to contemporary criticisms of activism. Both critique Biden's stance on issues like Israel's actions in Gaza and tie it to broader public opinion trends.
They also touch on the London mayoral elections and the challenges faced by Sadiq Khan, particularly in the context of his stance on issues like Gaza and Islamophobia. And Mehdi highlights the importance of context in journalism and the need to address misinformation and prejudice in public discourse.
‘Two Outspoken’ is a twice-monthly conversation between broadcaster, author, and Zeteo Editor-in-Chief Mehdi Hasan and political commentator, author, and activist Owen Jones. Mehdi and Owen will be discussing the news of the week, offering their analysis on the state of American and British politics, and even, from time to time, taking questions from Zeteo subscribers.
Friendly reminder: All of our content is currently available to all subscribers, free or paid. But this will only be for a limited, promotional period. Building and sustaining an independent media company like this requires, above all else, money. If you appreciate the work our team is doing, and want to be a part of this effort, please consider supporting us by becoming a paid subscriber.
This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit zeteo.com/subscribe -
Zeteo is excited to present the first episode of ‘Two Outspoken,’ a twice-monthly conversation between broadcaster, author, and Zeteo CEO Mehdi Hasan and political commentator, author, and activist Owen Jones. Mehdi and Owen will be discussing the news of the week, offering their analysis on the state of American and British politics, and even, from time to time, taking questions from Zeteo subscribers.
https://zeteo.com/subscribe
In this first episode:
Mehdi and Owen share the story of how they met over a decade ago on television, and recall those who compared them to a left-wing Batman and Robin (you can probably guess who is who).
Owen explains why he has recently quit the UK’s Labour Party, while Mehdi compares current Labour leader Keir Starmer to Tony Blair.
Finally, both of them discuss the mainstream media's multiple moral failures when it comes to coverage of Israel's ongoing genocide in Gaza — and, in particular, how the killing of seven international aid workers from the World Central Kitchen sparked more moral outrage from journalists and politicians than the killing of over 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza.
Friendly reminder: All of our content is currently available to all subscribers, free or paid. But this will only be for a limited, promotional period. Building and sustaining an independent media company like this requires, above all else, money. If you appreciate the work our team is doing, and want to be a part of this effort, please consider supporting us by becoming a paid subscriber.
This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit zeteo.com/subscribe
