Episodes
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Amazon is one of the largest companies in the world with over a million employees in the U.S. alone. A monolith responsible for trillions of dollars of revenue through retail, entertainment, and infrastructure. But Chris Smalls took it on anyway. Chris had worked at Amazon for 5 years before he was fired in March 2020 after leading a walkout at Amazon's Staten Island warehouse to protest pandemic working conditions. "We all got radicalized at some point in our lives," he told me. "My life changed forever when I got fired from Amazon." Chris used that motivation to work with his former colleagues to try to unionize the warehouse. The first attempt failed, but in March 2022 the vote passed, and it became the first Amazon warehouse in the United States to be unionized. As of today Amazon has not come to the bargaining table and is pursuing multiple legal actions to avoid recognizing the union, including challenging the constitutionality of the National Labor Relations Board. What's going on? I flew down to Hackensack, New Jersey to find out. What really happened at that warehouse? And what happens next? Chris filled me in on life after the union drive, why he's been traveling the globe, his experience being under surveillance by Amazon and the police, what it's like leading protests at Jeff Bezos house, and why the Amazon Labor Union has recently affiliated with the Teamsters. Chris calls bullshit on a lot of what we hear about labor organizing and reports on what's happening in the street. What can we learn from socialist countries? Why is the U.S. government reluctant to enforce antitrust regulations? What does fair human work look like in an increasingly algorithmic and AI-dominated society? Pull up a white plastic chair beside us in Chris's backyard as he leans back behind dark shades and plumes of smoke to tell us how working at Amazon is like slavery, what's happening with human jobs as automation skyrockets, whether unions can be effective today, what politicians represent the working class, his 3 most formative books, and much, much more... Let’s flip the page to Chapter 143 now...
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Once you find purpose, and once you find style… what’s left?
Beauty.
What’s left is finding and putting out beauty into the world. There are not many writers who have genuinely figured this out … but one of them is Mitch Albom.Mitch is the author of 'Tuesdays with Morrie,' the bestselling memoir of all time, as well as 'The Five People You Meet in Heaven' and his latest bestseller 'The Little Liar' which came out in 2023 and debuted at #1 on the New York Times bestseller list.
His books have sold over 40 million copies.
Mitch just doesn’t turn off. He’s like a Tasmanian Devil. He’s hosting a radio show, he’s on TV, he’s writing columns in the Detroit Free Press, he’s a musician, he’s even running an orphanage in Haiti.
Mitch is full of energy and life and moves quickly and talks quickly … and so we talked about that. We go deep into why he moves through life so fast. We unpack his relationship with Morrie and talk about how I actually misinterpreted parts of the book.
We talk about what the worst thing you can say to an artist is (which he learned from Maya Angelou) and what the true enemy of getting things done is (and surprise, it’s not time or energy).
Fly down to Detroit with me and let's take the elevator way, way up the 96-year-old Fisher Building. Let's enjoy the wise Mitch Albom sharing his 3 most formative books with us in this classic chapter.
Let's flip the page to Chapter 15 now...
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Missing episodes?
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Are you ready for a writing masterclass from one of the best self-help writers in the world? After graduating from Cambridge, Oliver Burkeman wrote the popular column “This Column Will Change Your Life” in ‘The Guardian’ for over 15 years sharing his real-world, real-time poetic exploration of the self-help universe. In 2021 he published 'Four Thousand Weeks,' a literary examination of how we live today. Mark Manson (our guest in Chapter 28) called it “a reality check on our culture’s crazy assumptions around work, productivity and living a meaningful life” and Adam Grant (our guest in Chapter 72) called it “the most important book ever written about time management." Oliver's work is much more about how to live a good life in the limited time we have than the system and hacks you find in other popular productivity books, and he’s just released a wonderful follow-up called 'Meditations For Mortals.' This book offers the reader 28 short chapters meant to be read one a day for 28 days, a quiet evening ritual with Oliver's potent words. Naturally with such a talented guest, this Chapter dives deep into writing craft. How does a productivity writer focus on meaningful work? What does Oliver always have in his pocket on a walk to help him write? And what is his dream writing schedule? But we also mine Oliver's brilliant mind in wide conversations that ask: What are the signs of living in a totalitarian state? What is Jungian analysis? Is promotion offensive? And why does Oliver wear earplugs even in silence? Oliver Burkeman is my favorite self-help writer so it was a great pleasure that he joined me on 3 Books. Join me to learn how Oliver manages his writing projects, his 3 most formative books, the best question to ask before making big decisions, why mess is necessary, and much, much more. Let’s flip the page to Chapter 142 now...
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Let's jump into the backseat of Vishwas Aggrawal's Uber and take a trip you won't forget.
This is a story about setting your own standards in a world constantly hammering us into "human resources."
This is a story about setting your own winning lines in a world that wants us to be widgets.
This is a story about raising the bar for yourself and deeply valuing the human connection and love that has the potential to exist between every single one of us.
Uber has no formal leaderboard, reward mechanism, or pay-for-performance tied to driver rating. So why would Vish care?
Why would he care about giving thousands of rides and pouring in day after day of high-end customer services to establish an incredible 4.99 rating? Why would he clean his mats between every trip, only eat raw vegetables in his car to avoid odors, and develop masterful scripts that help riders feel deeply valued in the middle of their busy days?
Why bother?
Join me in the backseat of Vish's Uber as we slowly circle closer and closer to what we're really playing for in our short time on the planet. We discuss the books that shaped Vish from his upbringing in India to his journey to give his daughter a better education on the other side of the world... even if it meant starting back at the beginning.
Vishwas Aggrawal is one of the most engaging and inspiring people I've ever met.
After you listen to his story in this classic 3 Books chapter, I hope you feel the same way. Let's flip the page to Chapter 7 now... -
James Daunt grew up in England the child of a diplomat—moving countries, tasting cultures, living a life with books and history at its core. He lived in Turkey and Cyprus before coming back to England for boarding school. After studying history at Cambridge, he didn’t know what he wanted to do, so the Career Services department pointed him towards investment banking across the sea in New York City. He actually liked the job but his girlfriend thought it was incredibly boring and encouraged him to quit. He thought, "How do I combine my love of reading and my love of travel into doing something wholly different?" The first Daunt Books independent bookstore opened on Marylebone High Street in London soon after. Unlike nearly every book store in the world he organized his books … by country. Not genre! But by place. Bookselling isn't an easy business! Lots of stores were going belly-up and profits were meager but over time he found a special knack for it. He went to bookselling school, paid fairly, and took mentorship and development seriously. When big bookstore chains started falling in the wake of Amazon, and Waterstones was essentially the only national chain left in the UK, a wealthy entrepreneur bought it and asked James to lead it. He turned the concept of a chain bookstore on its head, suggesting that stores would do better if the head office minimized itself and helped the booksellers operate like their own independent bookstores. Gone were planograms! Head office mandates! He tore up lucrative publisher deals spelling out which books to force onto the front tables to guarantee bestseller lists! He ripped up the rulebook completely. And what happened? Sales shot up. The chain survived ... then thrived. When the new owners of Waterstones bought Barnes & Noble—the largest bookstore chain in the world—they asked James to lead it, too. Today, James Daunt is the biggest bookseller on the planet overseeing nearly 1000 bookshops including his now-9 store Daunt Books indie chain, over 300 Waterstones, and over 600 Barnes & Nobles (including 65 new ones this year!!). I was very excited when James said "yes" to coming on 3 Books. We go deep on learning from history, the role of bookstores in society, his most formative books, the best place to find a date, the key to customer service, leading from behind, and much, much more.... Let’s flip the page to Chapter 141 now...
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Did you grow up with Judy Blume?
My mom says I “found my voice” reading 'Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing' to my sister in the bathtub when I was a little kid. Well, I grabbed that tattered copy and carried it with me down to Key West, Florida where I had the extreme privilege of sitting down with the one and only Judy Blume.
Judy and I met on a hot and sweaty day in her Books & Books bookstore … where she works! I’m not joking. Step off your cruise ship and Judy Blume will ring up a copy of 'It Starts With Us' if you like. We grabbed a little circle table, set it up in front of the bestseller wall, and then talked about her most formative books. In this classic 3 Books chapter, Judy and I discuss censorship, why sexy scenes should be kept in books, how to get kids to love reading, the role of bookstores in a community, and a surprise reveal on which book Judy says is the only one she has left to write... -
“Happiness is a choice.”
Heard that saying before? Betting you have. We all have! It’s almost cliché. And yes, while research shows that a good deal of our happiness really is a choice, the saying gives us a “what” without a “how.” And if your life is anything like mine, you have a million things going on—emaisl! texts! driving kids to soccer practice! finding time for date night!—and you need a "how" that can get you there fast, especially when your night time angst bubbles up, that dangerous mind that rears its ugly head after the dust of the day has settled and your resilience is low. So in this special Fall Equinox Bookmark, I want to share this simple—dead simple, ruthlessly simple—system to help get you back on track. All you need is two minutes around the dinner table with your family or lying in bed to scroll back through your day. It's like wiping a wet shammy over the blackboard of your mind, and is backed up by science, too. Ready to wind down your brain with intention? Let's flip the page... -
‘The Help’ by Kathryn Stockett. ‘Big Little Lies’ by Liane Moriarty. ‘Let's Pretend This Never Happened’ by Jenny Lawson. ‘American Dirt’ by Jeanine Cummins. ‘This Is How It Always Is’ by Laurie Frankel. ‘Listen for the Lie’ by Amy Tintera. ‘We Begin At the End’ by Chris Whittaker. ‘A Higher Loyalty’ by James Comey. ‘The Book of Awesome’ by Neil Pasricha. What do these books have in common? The famed but invisible editor pulling the strings from behind the curtain: Amy Einhorn Fifteen years ago my seven-month-old blog ‘1000 Awesome Things’ was nominated for ‘Best Blog’ from the International Academy of Digital Arts and Sciences. I was approached by literary agents and my new agent Erin Malone told me she wanted to auction my blog to publishers … next week. Suddenly I was in the foreign position of interviewing editors who were somehow clamoring to publish my book. I signed with Amy Einhorn—a woman I’d never heard of, who had just started an eponymous imprint I’d never heard of, within Putnam Publishing, which I’d also never heard of. But I was immediately and magnetically attracted to her vision for the book. “It’s a hardcover, Neil,” she said. “It’s for moms. It’s a gift book. You gotta lose the frat boy posts. No blowing your nose in the shower. And I need a lot more new content.” I learned everything about editing from Amy in our passionate late night diatribe emails, our hot-potato-ing of 300-page Word docs back and forth with 100s of comments in red down the sides, and arguing—good arguing!—about every single element along the way. I’d sit in her office and she’d have a variety of ‘cases’ laid out on her desk. “What do you think of 5” by 7”?” she’d say. “Too precious? Too cute?” Amy is one of the most successful editors in the world today with the highest percentage of books edited hitting the New York Times bestseller list. According to a feature in The Observer, “New York editors and publishers speak of Amy Einhorn's success as the product of an almost mystical editorial instinct.” She has a knack for sniffing out voice, for knowing what will work and what won’t and, as you can imagine, I’ve been begging her to come on 3 Books for six years to hear how it all works. So I flew down to NYC to talk with the bright, brilliant, and beaming Amy Einhorn about what an editor does, how a book gets published, what helps a book sell, Amy's 3 most formative books, and much, much more. Let’s flip the page to Chapter 140 now…
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Happy new moon, everybody!
I am going to release a few of my favorite classic chapters of 3 Books. Let's start with Seth Godin!
I flew down to New York to uncover and discuss the most formative books of the one and only Seth Godin (@ThisIsSethsBlog) from his Hastings-On-Hudson studio.
Seth is the bestselling author of 'Linchpin', 'Purple Cow', 'Tribes' and many more books and is known as one of the world's biggest thinkers in communities such as TED and the Marketing Hall of Fame. And did I mention he writes one of the most popular blogs in the world?
In this interview we discuss where Seth sees publishing going and his thoughts on the changes we're seeing in how people read and spend time. Seth shares his opinions on blurbs, acknowledgments, and his unique perspective on work-life balance. He also gives insights into how we can change our own world by changing the narrative inside our heads.
I sat in Seth's studio transfixed, mesmerized, and hypnotized by one of the world's best brains.
I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Big thank you to the kind, generous, and indispensable ... Seth Godin.
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I was at a coffee shop on College Street when the barista Tony yelled “Hey! There’s that duck!” I turned and, sure enough, out the front window was a… duck. A giant pixelated-looking green-headed Mallard set atop a rubber-tire-sized body on top of orange-stockinged legs and a pair of orange Converse. And he was just … walking by. Like some kind of interdimensional tumbleweed. Uh, what … was this? Some gimmick from the local radio station? An ad campaign for a boot company? I ran outside with my friend Ateqah and was puzzled that … she seemed to know him! “Hiiiiiii Lewis,” she cooed. “You’re looking great, Lewis! How’s your day going, Lewis?” He just … quacked at her. I had so many questions: “Who are you? What are you doing? What is the meaning of this?” But, of course, he just … quacked. Ducks can’t talk! Then he turned and did a 1920s-pauper-finding-a-penny-style heel-click a good three feet in the air and I was left standing on the sidewalk, stunned, with a big smile on my face. I couldn’t let the story finish there. Turns out Ateqah had been following Lewis Mallard on Instagram for years so when she saw him she knew who he was. She took a picture of us and posted it on her Instagram Story, after which Lewis Mallard picked it up, artistically edited it, and posted it on his own. I learned Lewis Mallard is an anonymous ‘interdimensional psychedelic folk artist’ responsible for street performances and art installations across Hamilton, Toronto and, most recently, Victoria. Little duck-painted streetcar stations are popping up and, of course, the duck, in full quacking character, is being spotted on the streets. Lewis’s work has been covered in all the local press in Toronto—CP24, City News, CTV, The Toronto Star, etc. In one of many pieces of coverage in CBC a person named J.J. Collins, manager of a local record label, said "Anybody who sees Lewis will tell the next person they see and say, 'Oh my God, I saw Lewis on the way to work today.' It's like finding the golden ticket." Finding the golden ticket? I … love that. BlogTo calls Lewis a “Toronto legend” and a “viral folk artist” and was trumpeting him after he painted a Toronto streetcar stop to look like … himself. There was this … allure, to me, of what Lewis Mallard *was* and what he was doing. Taking over the streets, creating art amidst dustry construction, and mapping rivers of love, humanity, and community through endlessly flowing change we all feel happening on the streets. Lewis Mallard agreed to meet me in human form—though his face, name, and identity remain secret throughout this interview—on a bright orange bench on College Street outside the same Manic Coffee where I saw him the first time. Lewis and I parked in the hot sun in front of noisy streetcars, gaggles of teens, and one guy who (really) believes Lewis is a spy. We share Manic's famous yogurt cups, ham and cheese croissants, and cookies—all homemade!—and discuss sacrifices for art, the power of the collective, the right amount of ‘bad,’ community through poverty, how to parent your parents, becoming an adult reader, what vandalism *really* is, and, of course, Lewis Mallard’s 3 most formative books… Let’s flip the page into Chapter 139 now…
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Maria Popova was born in communist Bulgaria and emigrated to the U.S. six days after her 19th birthday back in 2003. She studied at the University of Pennsylvania after “being sold on the liberal arts promise of being taught how to live.” Did it work? Well, yes and no. She spent her family’s life savings in the first few weeks on textbooks and, despite attending an American high school in Bulgaria, found herself in a bit of culture shock. “I mean, fitted sheets? Brunch?” She worked hard, a defining Popova characteristic, sometimes eating store brand canned tuna and oatmeal three times a day to get by. “I figured it was the most nutritious combo for the cheapest amount.” At one of her jobs in 2006 a senior leader started sending out a Friday email of miscellany to provoke innovation and then Maria took the project on herself—weaving together write-ups on seemingly unrelated topics. One day was Danish pod homes, another the century-long evolution of the Pepsi logo, another on the design of a non-profit's new campaign to fight malaria. It was becoming clear: You never knew what you were going to get from Maria. And in an era of homogenization that was so ever-delightful. Maria’s emails got popular and then she taught herself programming to put it all online on a site called BrainPickings.org. I was blogging on 1000 Awesome Things every night in that internet paleolithic. I still remember so many times I’d be researching for some arcane bit of wisdom or trivia and Google would wisely fire me over to BrainPickings.org. I came to love the site which had a top-of-the-page tagline back then that read: “A scan of the mind-boggling, the revolutionary, and the idiosyncratic.” And like my own blog’s 'About' page, this one didn’t reveal the author’s name, face, or identity. Was the internet just a bit more chat-room-anonymous back then? Or was this just before social media had been invented or figured out they needed our real names to maximize their ad revenues? Either way, Maria and I never got to know each other then … but, thankfully, a full 18 (!) years later the endlessly curious, cool, and erudite Maria Popova is ... still going. George Saunders, our guest in Chapter 75, says Maria Popova manifests "abundant wit, intelligence, and compassion in all of her writings." Seth Godin, our guest in Chapter 3 says Maria "is indefatigable in her pursuits of knowledge and dignity. She does her work without ever dumbing down the work." And Krista Tippett, host of On Being, calls Maria a "cartographer of meaning in a digital age." Perhaps no surprise the Library of Congress has included her project, The Marginalian (once called Brain Pickings), in their permanent web archive of culturally valuable materials I agree with the accolades and find Maria, her blog, and her wonderful books (‘Figuring,’ ‘The Snail With the Right Heart,’ 'The Universe in Verse,' and ‘A Velocity of Being’) truly exquisite and much-needed reflections of everything that makes life beautiful. Like 3 Books, her site The Marginalian has remained free and ad-free over the years. Maria has no staff, no interns, no assistant, and The Marginalian is, in her words, “a thoroughly solitary labor of love that is also my life and my livelihood.” The world can feel heavy, intense, and overwhelming—media, politics, and news pulls us away from those harder-to-measure things that make life wondrous. Love, connection, trust, kindness, passions, memories. The invisible but much-more-important guideposts that emerge as we look back on our lives from the end of it. That’s where Maria and The Marginalian rescue us—to point our attention towards the turn of phrase in a poem, a forgotten piece of advice from Ralph Waldo Emerson on trusting ourselves, or to provide a close reading with some stunning artwork from a 100-year-old picture book that helps illuminates one of those impossible-to-articulate emotions that we all share and feel… I loved this conversation with the much-requested Maria Popova on a wonderfully wide-ranging set of topics including, of course, her 3 most formative books…
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I remember getting the knife. It was near Christmas about 10 years ago and Leslie and I were zipping up a tiny suitcase before a beach trip with her grandparents and extended family. We weren’t married and I was making a desperate last-second plea to stuff a 576-page novel called ‘The Corrections’ by Jonathan Franzen into our bag. “It just won’t fit,” Leslie said. “You have … 100 pages left? Want to leave it and read it when we’re back?” I did *not* want to do that. The book was slipping under my skin—serrating my soul. So I remember getting that knife. The deep blasphemous pain I felt slicing the paperback spine and carving the last 100-ish pages off the book was far outweighed by the exquisite suite of pleasures I had slowly savoring it on the beach all week. I had never read anything like ‘The Corrections’—with a clarity of character, wildly spinning plot, and unique three-dimensional *realness* that, page by page, twist by twist, left pits in my stomach, lumps in my throat, and tears in my eyes. The book single-handedly elevated what I thought books could do. I read ‘Freedom’ (2010), ‘Purity’ (2014), and 'Crossroads' (2021) the same way—equal parts admiration, fascination, and with a psychologically-transporting feeling of living outside of myself. Jonathan Franzen is one of the most successful, accomplished, and decorated writers in the world. He is a Fulbright Scholar, National Book Award Winner, Pulitzer Prize Finalist, PEN/Faulkner Finalist, 2x Oprah’s Book Club Pick, voted to TIME’s ‘100 Most Influential’ list as well as gracing their cover as "Great American Novelist," and much, much more. The NYT calls his books "masterpieces of American fiction," NYMag calls his books "works of total genius," and Chuck Klosterman writing in GQ says "Franzen is the most important fiction writer in America, and—if viewed from a distance—perhaps the only important one.” Tall praise! But there is just nothing like a Jonathan Franzen novel and it was sheer delight going deep with the master of the deep to discuss writing advice, the magic of the written word, what heroes look like today, competing with David Foster Wallace, the best thing we can do for the climate, Jon’s 3 most formative books, and much, much more… Let’s turn the page to Chapter 137 now…
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I just got back from St. Louis.
It was my first time there and I met a wonderfully rich collection of people who I’m so excited to introduce you to in a special on-the-ground, in-the-street, from-the-backseat Chapter of 3 Books.
On the way from the airport to the hotel, the driver regaled me with St. Louis trivia from a deep well of St. Louis pride. “Did you know we hosted the World Fair and the Olympics the same year?” he asked. I knew about the World Fair! “Most do,” he said. “But not many know about the Olympics. 1904 was a banner year here. We were the fourth largest city in the US at the time!”
The next day I had time to explore. I knew there was a local bird species that didn’t exist anywhere else in the country! The Eurasian Tree Sparrow was one of six species of birds brought to St. Louis in 1870 by German immigrants. The other five died that winter, but the Tree Sparrow still lives near Lafayette Park where it was first released. It has thrived without expanding its range or disrupting the local ecology.
After I got an address to try and find the birds, I hailed an Uber and met Jacqueline, who drove a bus in town for 27 years. When I asked her for the best thing about St. Louis she said, “Nothing! Watch your back or somebody gonna put a bullet in your head.” Our raw conversation touches on the erosion of community, the deprioritization of connection, and how we might find new kinds of support in our disconnected world. “My family is whoever loves on me,” Jacqueline said. “Blood makes you kin but it doesn’t make you family.”
I then met Deneane, a 28-year-old single mother of five who does drop-off, pick-up, and evenings solo every day while driving Uber thirty hours a week, working at a cupcake shop, and running a small business online. We went to the Gateway Arch and Left Bank Books together while talking about enduring—after her mom found bruises all over her body, she left her abusive relationship and “found the strength to start over.”
The next morning I gave the talk that sent me down there and then got a final ride to the airport with Albano from Albania, who left his job as a public school teacher in Florida to make more than double as a driver. “Unfortunately,” he said, “if teaching was something others would care about, teachers wouldn’t leave the profession.”
I hope you feel a kinetic pulse listening to stories from people whose stories aren’t often told. Get ready to laugh, cry, and connect hearts as we tether ourselves to the human connection that exists around us every day.
Let’s head down to St. Louis and hang out with Jacqueline, Deneane, and Albano as they share the love and connection we are always searching for on 3 Books.
Let’s flip the page to Chapter 136 now…
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Cal Newport is a guide, a visionary, a role model to me and millions of others on living an intentional and productive life amidst our noisy, scatterbrained, tech-drenched world.
He’s an MIT-trained computer science professor at Georgetown University and author of 10 books which have collectively sold over 2 million copies including ‘Deep Work,’ ‘Digital Minimalism,’ and his latest bestseller, ‘Slow Productivity.’
“I sometimes joke that my entire career is built on giving two-word terms to things everyone thinks and knows,” Cal says, but the truth is he’s doing a lot more than that.
Take ‘Slow Productivity.’
He’s boiled this new phrase down into three principles: 1) Do fewer things, 2) Work at a natural pace, and 3) Obsess over quality.
Sounds simple, right? Trite, even! But that’s when you raise your head and realize the world is conspiring against you doing any of these. Doesn’t our world today reward… doing *more* things, working at an *unnatural* pace, and obsessing over *quantity*?
There’s a reason Cal has no social media apps on his phone. Why he has no social media accounts at all…and never has! With his books, and his wonderful podcast ‘Deep Questions,’ he is focused on helping us find our way as we navigate ever-changing technology and work patterns that increasingly feel at odds with our shared quest of living intentional lives.
Cal has a giant mind and it was on full display in this chat as we discuss: how Cal measures success, the neuroscience of reading, Denis Villeneuve, the relationship between rest and work, the ideal age for unrestricted Internet access, The Washington Nationals, leetspeak and productivity pr0n, the role of books today and their future, Andrew Huberman, positive reinforcement theory, Jonathan Haidt and ‘The Anxious Generation,’ technology boundaries for children, and much, much more…
Let’s turn the page to Chapter 135 now… -
I got an email from longtime 3 Booker Bo Boswell who told me he found an enticingly-titled thread on reddit called “What’s your field or study (hobbyist or professional) and what’s a cornerstone beginners book for that topic/field?” The most upvoted reply on the thread read: "Librarian here, Susan Orlean’s ‘The Library Book’ is at first glance a true-crime book about tracking the arsonist who set fire and burned down the main library in Los Angeles, but it also gives a comprehensive glimpse into contemporary libraries and their issues, especially updating a view of them if you haven’t been inside one since you were a kid."
Bo picked up the book, loved it, and then wrote to me that "the amount of research and bizarre detail Orlean puts into her work is so engrossing.” Bizarre detail! I was convinced. I picked up ‘The Library Book’ and it blew me away. Reading it was like … wandering a library. Surprising curiosity trails at every turn. I ended up putting the book in my Best Of 2023 and then went deeper into Susan Orlean’s back catalog where I found myself reading profiles like ‘The American Man, Age 10’ and a series of fascinating but unconventional obituaries about people like the inventor of Hawaiian Tropic or the first magician on the Las Vegas strip.
I’ve come to think of Susan Orlean as one of the best non-fiction writers on the planet. She’s been a Staff Writer for ‘The New Yorker’ since 1992 and has written more than 10 bestselling books including ‘The Library Book’, ‘On Animals’, ‘Saturday Night’, and ‘The Orchid Thief’, which was turned into the movie ‘Adaptation’, starring Meryl Streep in her Oscar-nominated role as … yes, Susan Orlean.
Susan has an endless, unbridled curiosity — that ‘bizarre detail’ — which you’ll see on full display in this conversation which begins by talking about how she organizes her shoes! She’s a writer’s writer who offers us a true masterclass and always reminds us that “storytelling and knowledge-sharing is the essential human experience.”
We talk about organizing shoes and spices, what books do that nothing else does, finding the balance between professional and amateur, the genius of container ships, what great book design does, how to cultivate your writing voice, how you might organize your book, facing the fear of failure, LSD, the power of libraries, Susan’s 3 most formative books, and much, much more… I am so excited to share this conversation and hope you’ll find it as endlessly inspiring, thoughtful as I did.
Let’s jump into Chapter 134 of 3 Books now… -
It’s Oscar season!
I was so thrilled to see ‘Past Lives’, the astounding slow-moving-yet-somehow-fast-paced debut film from Celine Song nominated for Best Picture. Best Picture! On her very first film. Oh, and no biggie, Best Screenplay, too. This following a slew of other noms like 5 Golden Globes, 3 Critics Choice Awards, 3 BAFTAs, and a recent Director’s Guild of America win for Outstanding Directorial Achievement for a First-Time Feature Film.
Leslie and I loved ‘Past Lives’ so much we went back to theaters to see it again. The film had such unique energy as it told the story of Nora and Hae Sung, two childhood friends in South Korea, who lose touch when Nora’s family emigrates, and then seem to be forever-chasing the goodbye they never had.
The film opens with a late-night bar scene of Hae Sung visiting Nora and her husband in New York before scrolling back to tell the unpredictable, jumping-around-the-decades story of how they got there. Every shot was such a sumptuous visual feast — from silhouetted lineups for the Staten Island Ferry to broken-transmission Skype calls to a final waiting-for-an-Uber scene that deserves its own prize. And the writing! Crisp. Punctuating. So much said ... with so little. ‘Past Lives’ is a truly magical film that I can’t recommend enough. 96% on Rotten Tomatoes also means there’s a great chance your movie-going pal will love it, too.
I was thrilled ‘Past Lives’ director, writer, and filmmaker wunderkind Celine Song joined me on 3 Books from her New York apartment to talk about the Korean concept of in-yun, why we’re drawn to stories, what unique role millennials play as the last pre-Internet-immersive generation, how a cannibalistic orgy makes for great literature, a surprising cure for loneliness, why sensory deprivation increases chemistry, the other job of a director, Celine’s 3 most formative books, and much, much more...
Let’s flip the page into Chapter 133 now... -
Back in Chapter 101 of ‘3 Books’ we had a magical, eve-of-‘Everything-Everywhere-All-At-Once’-coming-out moment-in-time conversation with creative super-geniuses Daniels — who are Daniel Kwan and Daniel Scheinert. We were discussing the fascinating book 'Sex At Dawn' and our conversation led to discussing Dunbar’s Number.
Dunbar’s Number! Have you heard of Dunbar’s Number? It’s 150! That’s the cognitive limit on the number of social relationships we can have. We, as in humans. Limit, as in our brains can’t handle any more. The number was coined, of course, by Oxford Emeritus Professor, Anthropologist, Evolutionary Psychologist, and General All-Round Super-Genius Robin, yes you guessed it, Dunbar. “There are only eight people with numbers named after them,” Robin says, with a grin. “And the other seven people are dead.” (Shoutout to Avogadro!)
Now: 150 is one in a series of numbers. More intimately: We have 15 ‘shoulders to cry on friends’, those who’d drop everything to help us or for whom we’d drop everything to help. And our cognitively limited brains can handle 500 ‘acquaintances’ and even 5000 ‘total faces.’ But 150? That’s the limit for ‘friends’. No wonder 150 is the average wedding size, it’s the average number of total people who 'see your Christmas card’, and it’s even the average size of 8000-year-old Middle East villages and 1000-year-old English countryside villages.
Once you start seeing this number — it’s hard to stop. But: Why is it important? Well, because friendships, the trust between all of us, it’s … at an all-time low. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy (our guest in Chapter 66!) has declared a ‘loneliness’ epidemic with 1 in 2 adults feeling alone now — higher than ever before in history. (Doesn’t sound too bad till you realize loneliness is worse for our health than smoking 15 cigarettes a day!) Meanwhile, the Harvard Adult Development Study, the longest study ever on happiness, says that friendship and community is the number one source of happiness.
So enter: Robin Dunbar! Wise, cheery, and ever-eloquent, he’s got a massive mind capable of distilling more than five decades of scientific work — and 16 published books including ‘How Religion Evolved’, ‘How Many Friends Does One Person Need?’, and ‘Friends’ — into simple observations, prophecies, and advice on how we can all live richer, more fulfilling lives.
I found this an astoundingly nutritious conversation and we talk about: how to raise children, what HR departments *should* be doing, what you’re doing wrong when you go to the gym, why religion ‘dies during times of peace and revives during times of war’, the death and finding of our deep community, Robin’s 3 most formative books, and much, much, *much* more...
Let’s flip the page into Chapter 132...
Watch now at https://youtu.be/eaHd90bKldw or listen at 3books.co/chapters/132
---Leave us a voicemail. Your message may be included in a future chapter: 1-833-READ-A-LOT.
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3 Books is a completely insane and totally epic 22-year-long quest to uncover and discuss the 1000 most formative books in the world. Each chapter discusses the 3 most formative books of an inspiring person. Sample guests include: Brené Brown, David Sedaris, Malcolm Gladwell, George Saunders, Angie Thomas, Daniels, Cheryl Strayed, Rich Roll, Soyoung the Variety Store Owner, Derek the Hype Man, Kevin the Bookseller, Vishwas the Uber Driver, Roxane Gay, David Mitchell, Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, Mark Manson, Seth Godin, Judy Blume, and Quentin Tarantino. 3 Books is published on the lunar calendar with each of the 333 chapters dropped on the exact minute of every single full moon all the way up to April 26, 2040. 3 Books is an Apple "Best Of" award-winning show and is 100% non-profit with no ads, no sponsors, no commercials, and no interruptions. 3 Books has 3 clubs including the End of the Podcast Club, the Cover to Cover Club, and the Secret Club, which operates entirely through the mail and is only accessible by calling 1-833-READ-A-LOT. Each chapter is hosted by Neil Pasricha, New York Times bestselling author of 'The Happiness Equation', 'Two-Minute Mornings', and 'The Book of Awesome.' For more info check out: https://www.3books.co
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Buckle up! We are heading down to the fields of Clemson, South Carolina! I got an email from 3 Booker Rumble D. back in February which said “Neil, I have a guest suggestion for you. J Drew Lanham is a 2022 MacArthur fellow and an American ornithologist. I loved his book and would love to hear you interview him (maybe while you guys go birding?)” Intrigued, I looked him up and discovered I … sort of already knew him? I had read and loved his wonderfully thoughtful and nuanced essay last year called "What Do We Do About John James Audubon?" and his viral YouTube clip called "Rules for the Black Birdwatcher". (“You’re gonna need at least two pieces of ID. And never wear a hoodie. Ever.”) So I bought Drew’s memoir 'The Home Place' and found it completely entrancing. His writing is poetry — vivid, transportive, meditative. After that I reached out to Drew and we set a time to make the 10-hour haul down to Clemson farm country, wake up at the crack of dawn, and then get picked up by Drew in his Dodge Ram to spend a morning together — birdwatching. J. Drew Lanham is a naturalist, birdwatcher, hunter-conservationist, MacArthur 'Genius' Grant-winning distinguished professor. He is a meditative, philosophical, nature- and wild-loving soul who has deeply considered our long relationship with the natural world and is never afraid to confront harsh truths. “European Starlings are a dark-plumaged being brought over the Atlantic for the services of others,” Drew says at one point. “Hmmm, where have I heard that before?” You’ll be riding in the middle seat of the truck, getting out with us between fence posts and grassy meadows, hearing Blue Grosbeaks, Eastern Meadowlarks, and Red-Shouldered Hawks, and listening to Drew’s endlessly wise observations about everything from South Carolina’s slavery past, why there’s blood in tofu, what your birdwatching ‘starter kit’ should look like, how to observe a land ethic, how we might behave differently if Chicken Nuggets blinked at us, formative books (of course!), and much, much more. “You can’t see everything at once,” Drew reminds us. “So learn to see the everything in one.” With birds serving as a metaphor for everything in life I think you’ll love this slow, soul-fueling, wisdom-stuffed conversation with Professor J. Drew Lanham. I left his truck that morning thinking “I want to be more like Drew.” I think you’ll feel the same way. Let’s flip the page into Chapter 131 now… Listen at https://www.3books.co/chapters/131 ---
Leave us a voicemail. Your message may be included in a future chapter: 1-833-READ-A-LOT.
Sign up to receive podcast updates here: https://www.3books.co/3mail
3 Books is a completely insane and totally epic 22-year-long quest to uncover and discuss the 1000 most formative books in the world. Each chapter discusses the 3 most formative books of an inspiring person. Sample guests include: Brené Brown, David Sedaris, Malcolm Gladwell, George Saunders, Angie Thomas, Daniels, Cheryl Strayed, Rich Roll, Soyoung the Variety Store Owner, Derek the Hype Man, Kevin the Bookseller, Vishwas the Uber Driver, Roxane Gay, David Mitchell, Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, Mark Manson, Seth Godin, Judy Blume, and Quentin Tarantino. 3 Books is published on the lunar calendar with each of the 333 chapters dropped on the exact minute of every single full moon all the way up to April 26, 2040. 3 Books is an Apple "Best Of" award-winning show and is 100% non-profit with no ads, no sponsors, no commercials, and no interruptions. 3 Books has 3 clubs including the End of the Podcast Club, the Cover to Cover Club, and the Secret Club, which operates entirely through the mail and is only accessible by calling 1-833-READ-A-LOT. Each chapter is hosted by Neil Pasricha, New York Times bestselling author of 'The Happiness Equation', 'Two-Minute Mornings', and 'The Book of Awesome.' For more info check out: https://www.3books.co
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Another year around the sun!
It is the Winter Solstice which means it is time for our sixth annual "Best Of" episode of 3 Books. 3 Books began back in 2018 with a simple goal of counting down the 1000 most formative books in the world ... 3 books at a time. We wanted this show to help all of us read more and read better and we wanted to do that by being different -- with a lunar-based schedule and a deep intention of being an ‘intrinsically-motivated journey’ with no ads, sponsors, commercials, or interruptions.
We started collecting values like: "No book shame, no book guilt", "Humans are the best algorithm", and "You are what you eat and you are what you read."
Over the years this journey has been a warm ray of sun in my life. I hope it’s felt the same for you.
My goal with the “Best Of” is to reflect on the year by picking a snippet from every Chapter and Bookmark that helps us pause and ponder.
You'll hear (or re-hear) wisdom from our chats with Steve Toltz, Timothy Goodman, Johann Hari, Tank Sinatra, Suzy Batiz, Martellus Bennett, Chefs Osama and Houssam, Jully Black, Lenore Skenazy, Heather McGowan, Sahil Bloom, Ralph Nader, and J. Drew Lanham (his interview is coming out on December 26th!!)
Thank you for sharing time with me and our incredible warm-hearted community of 3 Bookers around the world. I hope this (lengthy!) Best Of can keep you company on a long drive, late-night walk, or over some quiet moments through the holidays.
Let’s stop and reflect and then keep enjoying the ride.
Listen now at 3books.co/chapters/best-of-2023
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Leave us a voicemail. Your message may be included in a future chapter: 1-833-READ-A-LOT.
Sign up to receive podcast updates here: https://www.3books.co/3mail
3 Books is a completely insane and totally epic 22-year-long quest to uncover and discuss the 1000 most formative books in the world. Each chapter discusses the 3 most formative books of an inspiring person. Sample guests include: Brené Brown, David Sedaris, Malcolm Gladwell, George Saunders, Angie Thomas, Daniels, Cheryl Strayed, Rich Roll, Soyoung the Variety Store Owner, Derek the Hype Man, Kevin the Bookseller, Vishwas the Uber Driver, Roxane Gay, David Mitchell, Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, Mark Manson, Seth Godin, Judy Blume, and Quentin Tarantino. 3 Books is published on the lunar calendar with each of the 333 chapters dropped on the exact minute of every single full moon all the way up to April 26, 2040. 3 Books is an Apple "Best Of" award-winning show and is 100% non-profit with no ads, no sponsors, no commercials, and no interruptions. 3 Books has 3 clubs including the End of the Podcast Club, the Cover to Cover Club, and the Secret Club, which operates entirely through the mail and is only accessible by calling 1-833-READ-A-LOT. Each chapter is hosted by Neil Pasricha, New York Times bestselling author of 'The Happiness Equation', 'Two-Minute Mornings', and 'The Book of Awesome.' For more info check out: https://www.3books.co
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“Your airbag” by Ralph Nader. “Your seatbelt” by Ralph Nader. “Your cleaner air” by Ralph Nader. “Your safer food” by Ralph Nader. “Your lead protection when you get dental x-rays", “Your warning labels on cigarettes”, “Your right to know if you’re exposed to dangerous chemicals at your job”. By Ralph Nader, by Ralph Nader, by Ralph Nader.
We slap names on everything! Bylines. Authorship! We see names on everything in our ego-oriented society with commercialization and profit maximization near its core. But Ralph’s name isn’t on any of these things. Could be! Maybe should be! But when you’ve spent nearly seven decades — seven decades! — as a tireless consumer advocate, fighting to achieve protections for a healthier and safer society for all, well, maybe you don't focus on credit. You just focus on change.
“Dissent is the mother of ascent,” Ralph reminds us in Chapter 130 of 3 Books, one of many calls-to-arms issued by the four-time Presidential candidate and author of the new book The Rebellious CEO to our fiery global community of book lovers, writers, makers, sellers ... and librarians.
And while Ralph’s not running for President in 2024 — “We have a two-party duopoly not a competitive democracy" — he’s still working, day after day, calling for change. Sure, he’s turning 90 in February, joining his two active nonagenarian sisters, but he doesn’t feel old. Why not? Because, according to Ralph, “The only true aging is the erosion of one’s ideals."
I was very excited to sit down with Ralph and learn from his plentiful experience, wisdom, and ideas. On lots of things! Including de-computerizing elementary schools, shifting from a warmaking to peacemaking society, adding safety to social media, his ingredients for cognitive longevity, his current views of the famed Bush-Gore 2000 presidential election where he was called a "spoiler", and, of course, his 3 most formative books.
In an era of blaring, dopamine-spiking news and social media overwhelm this longform conversation with a true master awoke and inflamed my spirit on so many things. I think it'll do the same for you.
Let's flip the page into Chapter 130 now...
You can find show notes and more information by clicking here: https://www.3books.co/chapters/130
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Leave us a voicemail. Your message may be included in a future chapter: 1-833-READ-A-LOT.
Sign up to receive podcast updates here: https://www.3books.co/3mail
3 Books is a completely insane and totally epic 22-year-long quest to uncover and discuss the 1000 most formative books in the world. Each chapter discusses the 3 most formative books of an inspiring person. Sample guests include: Brené Brown, David Sedaris, Malcolm Gladwell, George Saunders, Angie Thomas, Daniels, Cheryl Strayed, Rich Roll, Soyoung the Variety Store Owner, Derek the Hype Man, Kevin the Bookseller, Vishwas the Uber Driver, Roxane Gay, David Mitchell, Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, Mark Manson, Seth Godin, Judy Blume, and Quentin Tarantino. 3 Books is published on the lunar calendar with each of the 333 chapters dropped on the exact minute of every single full moon all the way up to April 26, 2040. 3 Books is an Apple "Best Of" award-winning show and is 100% non-profit with no ads, no sponsors, no commercials, and no interruptions. 3 Books has 3 clubs including the End of the Podcast Club, the Cover to Cover Club, and the Secret Club, which operates entirely through the mail and is only accessible by calling 1-833-READ-A-LOT. Each chapter is hosted by Neil Pasricha, New York Times bestselling author of 'The Happiness Equation', 'Two-Minute Mornings', and 'The Book of Awesome.' For more info check out: https://www.3books.co
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