Episodes
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Chuck Cowdery was called “the dean of American whiskey journalism” by no less than Robert Simonson in the New York Times. So when I decided more than 250 episodes into this podcast to finally devote one to Mexican whiskey, I naturally invited my celebrated drinking buddy over. It’s (perhaps) the corniest episode of Agave Road Trip!
Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Chuck Cowdery and additional wisdom from Ismael Gomez of Laika Spirits, Xaime Navarro of Whisky Juan del Campo and Gracias a Dios Mezcal, Txomin Alcorta of Whisky Prieto y Prieta, and Jonathan Barbieri of Whiskey Maiz Nation!
Episode Notes
Check out The Chuck Cowdery Blog!
Thanks to Ismael Gomez of Laika Spirits, Xaime Navarro of Gracias a Dios Mezcal and Juan Del Campo Whiskey, Txomin Alcorta of Whisky Prieto y Prieta, and Jonathan Barbieri of Whiskey Maiz Nation for the quotes this episode.
You can check out NOM 199 here and to see how the rules for whiskey in Mexico compare to the rules for Mezcal, Tequila, and everything else, check out this spreadsheet.
And if the tangent about feni in Goa got you going, check out Hansel Vaz’s Instagram page and Fazenda Cazulo!
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Last episode we contrasted the good done through the consumption of heritage agave spirits with the damage caused by same. This episode, we talk about the damage done by the casual consumption of agave spirits. And coffee. And chocolate. And … well, everything. It’s a casual-destruction episode of Agave Road Trip!
Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Linda Sullivan of seynasecreto with wisdom from Xaime Navarro of Gracias a Dios Mezcal.
Episode Notes
Thanks to Xaime Navarro of Gracias a Dios Mezcal and Juan Del Campo Whiskey for the quote this episode.
Shout outs to Palomo Mezcal, Dark Matter Coffee, Chengdu Bistro, Rogue Ales & Spirits, and Chuck Klosterman and his novel Downtown Owl! (But also … go read Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs: A Low Culture Manifesto. Like, now.)
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Missing episodes?
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It’s amazing and moving to see mezcalerxs whose lives have clearly improved as a result of the growing interest in agave spirits. But there’s another side to that story – or, really, multiple other sides to it: some good, some bad, and some … well, the jury is still out on those. We talk about those various stories in this episode of Agave Road Trip!
Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Linda Sullivan of seynasecreto.
Episode Notes
This episode cover is Courtesy of Slim Pickens! Thanks, Slim!
The episode of “The Hidden Brain” that I was trying to recall is “Relationships 2.0: The Power of Tiny Interactions + Your Questions Answered: Erica Bailey on Authenticity.” So good!
My friends Jen & Adam Murphy have great Instagram feeds, if you’re a gardening nerd or a garden-in-a-cocktail nerd!
Shout out this episode to Jason Cox whose Cinco Sentidos brand of agave spirits is amazing! Equally amazing are his two (count them, two!) brands of Oaxacan rum: Alambique Serrano and Cañada - Aguardiente Oaxaqueño!
Shout out this episode to Mezcal tour guide Randall Stockton and his amazing pandemic program, Feeding Chichicapam!
Shout out this episode to Chuck Klosterman and his novel Downtown Owl! (But also … go read Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs: A Low Culture Manifesto. Like, now.)
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When I first started drinking Mezcal, I was told that there were some agaves that couldn’t be farmed — that could only grow wild. And I still here that narrative some two decades later. And it still doesn’t make sense to me. So I did the only logical thing: I asked a farmer.
Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Tracey Vowell of Three Sisters Garden.Episode Notes
If you’re anywhere near Chicago or Kankakee, order your farm-fresh produce (and dry goods like locally grown popcorn, beans, and oats) from Three Sisters Garden!
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In my consumer-focused tastings, I tell attendees that one of the big things I hope they walk away with is, they can lead a more delicious life and support a more sustainable ecosystem if they start drinking more than just Blue Weber processed in Jalisco and Espadin processed in Oaxaca – that’s literally 99% of what they drink now, and if they instead drink one of those two eight times out of ten instead of, rounded up, ten times out of ten, they’ll be helping to turn the ship away from the monoculture trajectory. And I ask them to ask their bartenders if they have an agave spirit that isn’t one of those two, so the bartender ask their beverage director to get something different. But … what if we could get the gringx bartenders to make that argument themselves? What suggestions can they make to put the agave spirits industry on a healthier trajectory?
Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Linda Sullivan of seynasecreto.
Episode Notes
If you want to listen to that episode about flights, it’s “Mezcals flights or Mezcal cocktails?”
If you want to listen to that episode about biodiverse cocktail Mezcals, it’s “The Best Mezcals for Mixing, According to Agave Road Trip.”
If you’re a bartender who wants to visit agave spirits producers in Mexico who aren’t connected to brands, check out the Tequila Interchange Project!
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Mexico has been purchasing about $3 billion of corn annually from farmers in the USA, the vast majority of that corn having been grown from genetically modified seeds. The Mexican government announced in 2020 that it would, in 2025, ban that GMO corn from the country, which was found to be in violation of the USMCA agreement of 2018. So now, the Mexican government has amended their constitution to identify native corn as an "element of national identity," which will ban GMO corn from being planted in the country – and "[a]ny other use of genetically modified corn must be evaluated ... to be free of threats to the biosecurity, health and biocultural heritage of Mexico and its population." What exactly does this all mean, for farmers in Mexico, for the environment in the Americas, and for the price of tacos? We try to suss it all out in this episode of Agave Road trip!
Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Dave Dyrek, retired farmer of Leaning Shed Farm, with quotes from Dr. Hector Ortiz of the Chicago Botanic Gardens and Chef Gustavo Romero of Oro by Nixta.
Episode Notes
When in Chicago, visit the Chicago Botanic Gardens! When in Minneapolis, grab a meal and a stack of tortillas at Oro by Nixta! When traveling back in time, head to the farmers market and visit Leaning Shed!
“US wins ruling in a trade dispute with Mexico over its bid to ban genetically modified corn,” AP News, December 20, 2024
“After trade dispute, Mexico officially bans the planting of GM corn,” Reuters, February 25, 2025
“Don’t mess with Mexico’s maíz: Constitutional amendment to ban GMO corn seeds,” Los Angeles Times, March 13, 2025
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If you want to listen to that October 2023 episode with Khrys Maxwell, it’s “The CRT loses their Tequila monopoly.”
You might also want to check out this episode: “The Birth and Death of the CRM,” in which MIA Chava and I discuss the end of the CRM’s monopoly on Mezcal certification.
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Check out Riker’s project, MadAgave, on the Web, on Instagram, and on Facebook — and consider making a financial gift. It will help support this important project and also help mitigate the damage done by the recent cyclone that hit the community.
In the episode cover, that’s head distiller Fomesoa, and the other crew members are Samba, Tsimireke, and Freddy.
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Marissa is also a board member of Tequila That Cares, a philanthropic organization bringing positive change to the agave spirits industry!
If you missed World Poetry Day, it’s not too late to celebrate. Click here for the archived celebration with Agave Road Trip Poet Laureate Larry Beckett and August Gladstone!
Some numbers I culled from the DISCUS data over the past eight years:
If you just look at volume consumed, 2.7 billion liters in 2024
o Vodka: 667 million liters (24.4%), trending down a point or two last three years
o Cocktails (RTDs): 658 million (24.0%), trending up in a big way, double-digit growth every year
o Whiskey: 647.5 million liters (23.7%), trending down four-ish percent past two years
o Agave: 289.8 million liters (10.6%), trending up but growth is slowing
o Rum: 186.1 million liters (6.8%), trending down in an escalating pattern
o Cordials: 180.7 million liters (6.6%), trending down four-ish percent past two years, like whiskey
o Brandy: 105.4 million liters (3.9%), big hits past three years
If you look at dollars spent, $36.2 billion in 2024
o Vodka: $7.2 billion (19.9%), flat since 2021
o Cocktails (RTDs): $3.3 billion (9.1%), trending up in a big way, double-digit growth every year
o Whiskey: $11.9 billion (32.9%), trending down two to three percent past two years
o Agave: $6.7 billion (18.5%), trending up but growth is slowing
o Rum: $2.2 billion (6.1%), trending down in an escalating pattern
o Cordials: $2.8 billion (7.7%), trending down but not at same pace as volume
o Brandy: $2.1 billion (5.8%), big hits past three years
If you look at dollars spent per liter, bearing in mind that inflation between 2016 and 2024 was 30.7%,
o Vodka: $10.83, up 11% since 2016
o Cocktails (RTDs): $5.01, down 23% since 2016
o Whiskey: $18.30, up 15% since 2016
o Agave: $23.17, up 25% since 2016
o Rum: $11.99, up 12.6% since 2016
o Cordials: $15.54, 13.8% since 2016
o Brandy: $20.24, 10.6% since 2016
You can get all the raw data and draw uyour own conclusions at DISCUS.
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Shout outs this episode to Cambio Tequila and Puesto! And Howard Gardner’s “Theory of Multiple Intelligences”!
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That one hit is from Australian Traveller: “30 of the best bars in Sydney right now.”
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This episode was inspired by a post that Mexican distiller Tomas Nava made in the Facebook group Mezcal Society. His post was inspired by the entry for “foreshots” at SpiritsBeacon.com. The response from Tom Bartram of Speciality Brands gave me the excuse to reconnect with Tom!
Bonus! Tom’s puntas-filled annecdote!
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Check out 30A Distilling Co. when you’re in Florida!
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First and foremost, when claims are made about expenses by USAID or any federal agency of the US government, you can research for yourself at usaspending.gov. This is a great tool that is as close to absolute transparency in government as the USA has ever had. In the (literal) days since I recorded this episode (February 17, 2025), President Trump has signed an executive order that requires “radical transparency” of all government offices. In that very order, he highlights as an example of “how the federal government has wasted [our] hard-earned wages” this item:
Numerous USAID grants have come under review, including $1.5 million to “advance diversity equity and inclusion in Serbia’s workplaces and business communities.”
But he doesn’t share the Prime Award ID number or the recipient of that award. So you’re left to dig into that yourself. If you believe there should be “radical transparency” in the government, ask for those items so you can see, for yourself, that this claim is true. Or just go digging and try to find evidence of this claim. Or any of the others in that executive order or the many posts the president or Elon Musk have made.
Now … to watch the beautiful sermon from Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde — a wonderful call for mercy — click here.
To read the transcript of the bishop’s interview with “All Things Considered,” click here.
While I don’t believe I actually mentioned it in the episode, even as an apathetic agnostic, I’d still encourage everyone to read the letter that Pope Francis sent to the USA.
To read how the first Trump administration launched the Women's Global Development and Prosperity Initiative, click here.
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Shout out this episode to Steve Catbagan, Denver, and its groovy agave scene; Arik Torren and his Lot 001 Brands, and fog nets. And of Cambio Tequila!
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Shout out this episode to Quiote Mezcaleria!
And when in Chicago go visit the desert house at the Chicago Botanic Garden. It’s as close to Mexico as anything 1,800 miles north of Mexico!
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The previous episode that inspired this episode is “The secret origin of Tequila Oro.”
Shout out this episode to Jason Cox at 5 Sentidos! Shout out to Tequila Cascahuin!
Maybe dibs in Chicago actually was documented…? Click here!
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That incredible beer-not-beer was made by tlachiquero Marco Antonio of pulqueria El rincon de Mayahuel in San Felipe, Guanajuato. I was introduced to Marco by Malena Villasuso and Juan Pedro Valdes of Mezcal Villasuso. This episode was recorded outdoors at Bárbaro Asador de Campo, an amazing table-in-farm restaurant in Queretaro, where we stopped to have lunch with our travel companions: environmental scientist and SACRED program manager Regina Gonzalez and Brian Rabon of 30A Distilling Company.
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This episode was inspired by a bottle by Victor Ramos, sourced from his tasting room in Miahuatlan, Oaxaca, labeled “Mensoncle de Arroqueno.” It’s the first time I’ve seen that spelling, but it refers to the heart of the agave — like mezontle. mesonte, and Mezonte. (Hi, Pedro!)
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Shout outs this episode to Oaxacan speakeasy Hembra, Marco Ochoa of Mezcouting, Sylvia Philion of Mezcaloteca, and Enrique Martinez of Metsal!
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