Can You Grow Rhubarb in a Warm to Hot Climate? Yes!

20 Aug · Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast

If you’re a transplant from a colder USDA Zone to a warmer zone, you may have fond memories of rhubarb pie, strawberry-rhubarb jam, rhubarb crisp, or something more exotic, such as Rhubarb-Blueberry Upside Down Cake. But if you now live in USDA Zones 9 or 10, you may be wondering, is it too hot here in the summer to grow rhubarb? Is it too warm in the winter here to grow rhubarb?

Yes you can! But leave your rhubarb growing techniques back in Wisconsin. The trick to growing rhubarb here is: start from seed, not roots; use varieties that are developed for milder climates; and grow them in the shade.

In the podcast above, we talk with Ronni Kern of the West Los Angeles chapter of the California Rare Fruit Growers Association. She has all the details for growing it successfully here in California and in other milder climates.

But before we dive into the pit of endless rhubarb, a bit of business:

“It’s All About the Soil (for a Successful Garden!)”

Did you listen to Episode 353 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast? It’s entitled, “It’s All About the Soil (for a successful garden!)”.

We chat with Kevin Marini, a community education specialist with UC Cooperative Extension in Placer and Nevada Counties, about the topic of soil and gardening. We discuss the pros and cons of using native soil versus commercial soil, the importance of improving native soil, the use of bagged mixes and raised beds, and the role of organic matter and fertilizers in gardening. We also touch on the benefits of mulch and the importance of proper watering techniques. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding and improving soil for successful gardening.

You’ll want to listen to it twice, as well as reading the transcript, for all the handy gardening tips and tricks we mention to achieve an outstanding garden.

The podcast (along with a transcript) is available now wherever you get your podcasts. But if you want an accurate, corrected transcript along with the podcast, go to GardenBasics.net . Thank you for listening (and/or reading!)

Farmer Fred’s Ride for the Kids!

I'm fundraising on behalf of the Sacramento Rotary Club’s 2024 Sac Century Challenge bike ride on September 28th to raise money for the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery and I could use your support. Here’s the link.

On that date, I’ll be riding my bike, a Surly Midnight Special (NOT an e-bike) 100 miles along the Sacramento River to help out the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery. I’ve ridden 100 miles in one day plenty of times…when I was younger.

But at 73, I could use some moral support, and the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery can use your pledge money. So, how about it? Maybe pledge 10 cents a mile (that’s $10) along with a hearty, “You go, Fred!” Or a more generous one dollar a mile ($100), to give me the mental endurance for the entire ride, to dodge the pothole-filled levee roads and pedal harder in the ferocious headwinds that makes this ride a real challenge!

The Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery is the only program of its kind in Sacramento County and directly prevents child abuse and neglect by supporting families with small children at times of crisis. The nursery allows parents to bring their children ages newborn to five for emergency hourly or overnight care during difficult times, with the goal of keeping families together and reducing the number of children entering foster care. To care for our community's most vulnerable children, we rely on support from community members like you. By donating, you empower us to provide a safe haven for children throughout the Sacramento area, offering respite to parents during times of crisis, and building a strong support system for the future. Your support helps provide a safe place to stay local kids in need. Again, here’s the link to make a donation to the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery. Or do it because this newsletter is still free (for now).

Thank you for your support, and say "Hi!" if you see me pedaling like crazy out there along the Sacramento River on Saturday, September 28th!

Can You Grow Rhubarb? Yes!

Here’s the transcript of the podcast (above) chat with Ronni Kern of the West L.A. California Rare Fruit Growers. There are lots and lots of hot links in the transcript to get you to more information about rhubarb and more!

TRANSCRIPT - How To Grow Rhubarb in USDA Zones 9 and 10.

Farmer Fred:

As you are probably very aware, I've been answering garden questions here in Northern California for, well over 40 years, actually. And nobody ever asked me about rhubarb until I visited the eye doctor a few months ago. And besides her questions, which are usually, “Which is clearer, the first one or the second one?” “One or two?” Her other question was, “Can you grow rhubarb here?”

And nobody in all those years has ever asked me about growing rhubarb before. And I mentioned that to her and I said, well, I'll look into it and see what it is. Now, this was back about five months ago. And since then, what an adventure it has been about the history of rhubarb, the history of rhubarb in California, and how to grow it, and all the varieties. And the short answer to my eye doctor's question is, “yes,” with a few reservations. But to even add more to this story, at a recent gathering of the Master Gardeners of Sacramento County, of which I'm one, I came across a Master Gardener who is growing it here in Sacramento, and she sent me a picture of it. And it is gorgeous. It is growing in full sun, which to find out, can be chancy. But it's doing great. It's a variety called “Success” that she found in Australia, in a seed catalog, French Harvest. We'll get into that, too, because this little voyage with rhubarb is going to take us around the world.

Farmer Fred:

It's an amazing journey, so stick around and you'll find out a lot. We are talking with Ronni Kern. Ronni Kern is with the California Rare Fruit Growers Association, and she is down in West Los Angeles for that chapter. And I'm very familiar with the California Rare Fruit Growers here in the Sacramento area. And one thing I know about them, they love to experiment. They love to try new things. That's the whole idea of being a gardener. And the California Rare Fruit Growers Association is full of very curious gardeners. And Ronni is one of those. Ronni Kern also had the same issue I had with finding rhe answer to the question, can you grow rhubarb in California?

Farmer Fred:

And for years, it was like, no, you can't. It gets too hot here. It doesn't get cold enough in the wintertime. Well, California has a lot of climates. And in fact, in her research about growing rhubarb in California, she discovered that actually it was a thriving crop at one time here. Actually, the rhubarb seeds that were developed here, that grew here, came from a very famous seedsman, and you know him well, Luther Burbank, who farmed in Santa Rosa, which, as you may know, gets rather hot as well, over 100 degrees in the summertime. And he was very effusive about the varieties of rhubarb that he was growing. When I start mentioning this about rhubarb to people, if they're from the Midwest, oh, their eyes light up because they remember, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to love rhubarb pie, fresh rhubarb, jellies and jams.

Farmer Fred:

And they're usually from the Midwest or back east, as is Ronni Kern. Ronnie, you were born and raised in Rhode Island?

Ronni Kern:

Well, actually, I was born in Brooklyn, but I was raised in Rhode Island.

Farmer Fred:

It sounds like your parents, though, would have no business being in New York City, considering how much they loved fresh picked fruit.

Ronni Kern:

Well, my mother loved fruit. My dad was the one from Brooklyn. My dad was not much of an eater until lwhen I was in my 20s, I had a huge organic garden in Vermont and suddenly discovered, oh, “vegetables have taste”. Because when he was growing up, his mother didn’t cook. And my mother cooked frozen vegetables. So he basically was not an eater. My mother was. So it was my mother who was the fruit person. My dad, not so much. Steak, a couple of vegetables. That was it. And I went to college without knowing what a cauliflower was. I mean, to give you some idea of New England upbringing in the 50s. But no, I mean, fruit growing, fruit was a huge part of my childhood because of my mother and because of New England and where I lived. A lot of fruit grew there back then. And I guess it still does. I'm not there now, I've been in California for over 50 years.

Farmer Fred:

Well, rhubarb has sort of the same kind of legal history as tomatoes, in that it took a court in New York to decide that rhubarb should be considered a fruit, because it is primarily used in desserts.

Ronni Kern:

Right. Well, you know, the actual name they used to call it in England was “pie plant” because it was the first thing to come up in the spring when there was snow was on the ground. So people could make pies out of it. And yeah, they consider it definitely a fruit. Though one of my main propagator friends in the West LA chapter, Charles Portney, actually doesn't use it as a fruit because he is pre-diabetic. So he roasts it and cooks it with onion and garlic and olive oil. And he loves it that way. So you can consider it a vegetable. It isn't a vegetable. Burbank considered it a vegetable, but most of us consider it a fruit. And the California Rare Fruit Growers, all right, we're growing it as a fruit. Others grow it as a vegetable.

Farmer Fred:

It has quite the history here in the United States. Allegedly, Ben Franklin brought it over from France. The history of rhubarb goes back to ancient China, where they found it in the mountains of China. So it has a very good cold tolerance. I think here in the United States, it can grow down into USDA Zone 2, which would be probably where my relatives were farming back in North Dakota. But the problem with growing rhubarb, though, has to do with summertime heat, which can really can knock it back for certain varieties. And tell us about your adventure and how you came upon Luther Burbank and all these other rhubarb varieties.

Ronni Kern:

Well, you know, when I came to California, I wanted to grow rhubarb. I mean, that's what I grew up eating. And so I go to the nursery, but all they sell is Victoria. Victoria, some people can grow, but does not really do well in Southern California. It grows as an annual. You put it in the ground, you get a crop, and it dies. And I was frustrated because it never got really big. It never got really sweet. And rhubarb, actually, if it's good, it's sweet. But I gave up on it.

Ronni Kern:

Basically, I said, all right, this is not working. I grew other things. And then four or five years ago, five years ago, I got cancer. And after that, I said, I've got to really figure out rhubarb. You know, time is limited here. So I started researching, and that's when I came upon Burbank and his book, “Luther Burbank, his Methods and Discoveries” has a big chapter on rhubarb. And he said it can be grown, his could be grown in arid, warm, arid climates. I thought, oh, I need some of that stuff. And I thought, okay, no big deal. He was in Santa Rosa. I'll get some of his roots.

Ronni Kern:

Unfortunately, the more I researched, the more I discovered, the roots had disappeared. Somebody bought the patent when he died, and then they got moved on and moved on. But the land was more valuable for housing development or industrial development. And ultimately, his roots were all plowed under, which broke my heart, broke the heart of David Karp, who was a great writer on fruit, well-known around the country. I knew that there were people who must have still had the roots. I bought rhubarb at the farmer's market here from a woman from Valley Center (near San Diego), which is where the last commercial fields were. I have friends who live in Valley Center, but I couldn't find any. And nobody knew about any of that. They had other varieties, cherry and this and that, but nobody knew if they were actually Burbanks. And so that's when I went back to his book and discovered he'd gone to New Zealand to get the roots. And I couldn't get roots then. It was during COVID. I found this wonderful company, French Harvest in Australia.

Ronni Kern:

It's a family that's been growing rhubarb for four generations. Colin Clayton (and his wife, Tina) is the last generation. He wrote a book on rhubarb, which I have in front of me. I started ordering seeds from them. And I passed them out to my members who were interested in propagating. Mostly Charles and I produced most of the plants that have now been spread across Southern California. And people are just going crazy for the stuff because it does grow year round. It does grow in our heat. I do grow it in shade. I have it on my north side of my house where it's happier. But people are growing it almost anywhere. And it's doing really, really well. And we're now in year four and it keeps coming. It's perpetual. It doesn't ever really die back entirely. It slows down. This time of year, it's already starting to curl up. Probably September, October, it'll be looking pretty peaked. And then November when the rains come, hopefully it'll start coming back again. In fact, my big problem is figuring out how to divide roots here because you normally divide divide roots when they're dormant in the winter on the East Coast or Midwest or wherever. And we don't really have that season. I'm a stubborn person. I've been researching my whole life. I was a writer my whole life. A lot of my work was historical, and I just got into the habit of doing a lot of research. And so finding Burbank's book on archive.org or the old news articles that would announce his latest discovery. I mean, he grew strawberry-flavored rhubarb. He grew raspberry. He was a lunatic, and I don't know how much of it was just hype and marketing and how much of it was real.

Ronni Kern:

I don't want to diss Luther Burbank, obviously, but other people were growing it.

Farmer Fred:

I can do that. I can diss him for you if you would like. You made a reference to an old newspaper clipping, and you had it posted in one of the West LA CRFG chapter newsletters, which is online. And it was from the Los Angeles Herald newspaper of 1904. Thank you. And it says, “concerning an improvement on the Australian crimson winter rhubarb, so highly prized by all who have used it, Luther Burbank of Santa Rosa answers an inquiry from the California fruit growers as follows. He said, my last new rhubarb is a variety which produces luscious, juicy stalks perpetually throughout the year, and which do not have the rank strong acid taste, or as some express it, ground flavor, which we naturally associate with the older rhubarb. In place of this is a mild but pronounced fruity flavor, very much resembling strawberries or raspberries, so much so that when this rhubarb is once tasted, no one ever cares to taste the old kind.” Now there's a salesman.

Ronni Kern:

Right. The wonderful thing about this is something called the California Digital Newspaper, whatever it's called, collection at UC Riverside. So you can find all these old California newspapers in there, including something called the Pacific Rural Press, which goes back to 1905(?), where they're talking about his winter, crimson winter rhubarb. And it's coming into great prominence in California. And they were growing hundreds of thousands of acres of rhubarb at a certain time in California. They were shipping it all over the country because it was growing so well here. That's what is so heart-threatening. Now there's almost none, almost none being grown, just backyard gardeners and a couple of commercial, small, small-scale commercial gardeners.

Farmer Fred:

You mentioned David Karp, and he pointed out, I think this was about 10 years ago, so the number may have grown since then. He pointed out back then that there's only four commercial acres left in California of rhubarb, whereas back in the 1920s and 30s, it was over 1,000 acres.

Ronni Kern:

Right. And, you know, I just gave some roots of my Tina's Noble to Dominic Shainer, who's part of Shainer Farms down in Valley Center, the original place where the roots went. And he works with Gray Martin a lot on growing interesting things. And I'm hoping maybe they're commercial growers. I'm hoping maybe they'll get... Them growing again commercially but even at the farmer's market there are maybe two people that sell them and one sells the green stuff which never gets soft and you feel like you're eating celery when you're eating it in a dessert and then this other woman from the valley center was actually growing the really good red stuff but i haven't seen her in years so i don't think there are very many commercial growers. What's one of the things that california fruit growers do we kind of pick up the slack and the same thing with rhubarb. we're going to get rhubarb growing. I must have, I don't know, 25 people growing it now around mostly Southern California.

Farmer Fred:

Do you have any growing it in the Central Valley of California?

Ronni Kern:

I personally don't know. Even though it can handle heat, I would say if you were going to grow it in where you are, I would put it in shade. I would put it either under shade cloth. I actually threw a shade cloth over one of my plants, which is not in shade and was looking kind of, eh. Some of the people that are growing it here said, it's not looking good. I said, put a shade cloth both on it. And it helps. I mean, it makes a huge difference. It seems to be surviving and it's grown well. And some of these, Especially the variety “Success”, the woman that you talked about growing. Success is one that I have. It's one of my favorites because it is the sweetest of the ones I grow. And that comes from Sydney, which is actually much more a climate like we have down here in Southern California.

Farmer Fred:

Sydney, Australia.

Ronni Kern:

Yeah, Sydney, Australia. Whereas the Claytons live in Melbourne, which is further south, which means it gets colder. It definitely gets colder there. I think Colin brought in seeds from Greenland, for Pete's sakes, Who found it in Greenland. I don't need that. I don't have a Greenland climate, but I do have a Sydney climate.

Farmer Fred:

For the sake of those who don't know where Valley Center, California is, where is Valley Center, California?

Ronni Kern:

That's outside San Diego. That's North San Diego County. It's a prime growing area. Most of the avocados come from there. Citrus come from there. It's a wonderful, wonderful growing area. It's just a really good agricultural area.

Farmer Fred:

That's a rather Impolite name then, for an area that is close to the Garden on Eden, calling it Valley Center.

Ronni Kern:

I don't know Where the name came from. It must have been derived from something else. And that's where the last sighting down here of the Burbank roots were.

Farmer Fred:

Well, let's go back to those Burbank roots, because you've been doing updates just about every year on the California Rare Fruit Growers website newsletter for West LA.

Farmer Fred:

You always have something to add every year. And we were talking beforehand that you just discovered that if you go to Santa Rosa, to the Luther Burbank Farm and Gardens, and it's in downtown Santa Rosa, they're back to selling the original roots.

Ronni Kern:

Well, they may be. That's what I was told. And their website seems to indicate that they have located them. Whether you can get them today, I don't know. And I've been tempted to call them and say, are you still selling them? But I haven't done that. But yes, two different chapter chairs have obtained them from the Burbank.

Farmer Fred:

Do we know what varieties are available?

Ronni Kern:

They just call it Burbank Perpetual. That's the name. It's a single variety. Even though he ultimately developed 36 varieties, these are all called just Burbank Perpetual. So I assume that they... Basically have found one variety or they're not distinguishing among them after all this time i sometimes get sounded on the growing fruit forum for saying oh i'm growing glasgow perpetual or i'm growing this one i say well you're not really, because glasgow's been dead 100 years so lord knows what's happened to those seeds over time and it's true. and actually colin when he sent me the seeds the first time he said, “grow them up and if you decide to grow seeds name them whatever you want. these are going to be your california seeds and the ones that do best for you, name them what you want to call them, because they'll be specific to your area.”

Farmer Fred:

Well, that brings up a very good question about what do these seeds develop as? If you buy the Success seed of rhubarb, is it going to come up as Success? Or because it is a hybrid, is it going to be some combination of a lot of different ones?

Ronni Kern:

They are seedlings. They are seedlings, so they are not going to be 100% true. But I think Colin actually has some statistics in his book. I actually glanced at it this morning … But he said basically 50% true, 10% will be even better than they should have been, 10% will be worse than they should have been, and the rest is somewhere in between. So his suggestion is you grow a lot of them and that's why he sends you 100 seeds in a packet for like 15 bucks. He keeps telling me to pull out my Success because it keeps trying to send up seed pods. And you don't want to send up seed pods because then you lose the energy to the roots and then you don't get the rhubarb. But it makes the best rhubarb. So I just cut the seeds off, I don't worry about it, and then have the rhubarb. But I actually have a Tina's Noble that has now formed three different heads. And I'm actually going to separate those out at one point and let one of them go to seed because it is an exceptional plant. And some of the other Tina's I've had have been, they're all been good, but some have not been quite as vigorous as this one. So that's worth perpetuating. I was expecting us just to be sending out, planting out roots and selling roots. But if I can get one of these to go to seed, it seems like pretty easy. Then yeah, we would try that. Back at the Venice Learning Center at the Venice High School, they have a seed bank and they were really big on saving seeds that do well for them there. And they do have some rhubarb seeds of just a sort of generic variety. And I looked at them, then I was big as mine, so I don't care.

Farmer Fred:

But you really do want to grow the colored variety, like the red leaf rhubarb.

Ronni Kern:

The red ones, yeah. Yeah. Well, not the red leaf, the red stalk.

Farmer Fred:

Red petiole, yeah.

Ronni Kern:

There is a red leaf one called Ace of Hearts, but that's really just an ornamental one. You don't need it. It's just a pretty guy.

Farmer Fred:

Yeah, you're right. I should say red stalked.

Ronni Kern:

Red stalk. And yeah, The Glasgow Perpetual, for example, is a green stalked one. It's an excellent, excellent rhubarb. I just happen to like the red ones, when you cook them up, they stay red and you don't have this sort of muddy looking, whatever, compote. You have a nice red compote. You don't have to put cherries or strawberries or raspberries in it. It just is red. I like that. And also, as I said, Success is sweet. The Success is a sweet one, sweeter than any of them. I haven't tasted Crimson Sunrise yet. That's my newest one. But Tinas is a delicious one, but it's not really sweet. You have to add sugar to it. Whereas Success, not so much. You know, it's pretty amazing.

Farmer Fred:

I had mentioned that I came across a master gardener here in Sacramento County, Ruth Ostroff, who is growing Success rhubarb in the Sacramento area. The plant is in full sun. She sent me a picture of it. It is gorgeous. It is large. And it strikes me that rhubarb is a crop that is sort of like asparagus. You want to put it at the back of the garden.

Ronni Kern:

Yeah, it's big. It can be, well, I keep having members say, can I grow this in a pot? And Colin does sell a couple of varieties. I'm actually trying to get one to come up now called Urban Harvest, which is smaller and can be grown in a pot. But these guys, by and large, are big. Crimson sunrise is huge. It needs wind protection. And yeah, so you want them at the back of your plot. Or in my case, I just have it in its own plot all by itself.

Farmer Fred:

And where it's getting, what, afternoon shade? You said it's on the north side of the house. So it's getting afternoon shade.

Ronni Kern:

It gets mostly permanent shade. Oh, okay. It's permanent shade. This time of year, the middle of the day gets sun. But it does fine. You know, the leaves do crinkle up a little bit. I mean, my Tina's Noble is starting to turn a little brown on the leaves. But yeah, it's doing great.

Farmer Fred:

We should mention who Clayton and Tina are. They're the ones that are running French Harvest, the seed company, down in Australia, and they truly are rhubarb heads. And I just ordered a container rhubarb from them, Ruby Red, and the seeds will be arriving soon. If you can find seeds locally, that would be the way to go, because ordering seeds from Australia, while the seeds are cheap, it's like $10 for 100 seeds, but then there's a $25 shipping charge.

Ronni Kern:

This is why this woman in Orange asked me if we could go in together. I bought four packages. And the shipping was finally less than the seeds were.

Ronni Kern:

And also, the other reason why I like to order a lot is because the U.S. Postal Service uses these automated things to cancel the packages, and Tina sends them in an envelope. I've had a lot of seeds arrived crushed. And Tina, she's great about replacing them, but it's a hassle. You wait months to get them, and then they're crushed. And this time, I had my Tina’s Noble and my Crimson Sunrisers just exploded out of the germination beds. And the Urban Harvest and the Success, which has always done well for me, did nothing. And I suspect that they were crushed. It's not anything on the Claytons. They grow great seeds. It should sometimes the vagaries of getting them in from overseas is if you can get them locally, that would be the best. That's why I'm hoping at some point to start growing seeds. And if your friend, the master gardener who's grown success can get seeds off hers, that would be fantastic. Success goes to seed really easily. So she should be able to do that.

Farmer Fred:

As a matter of fact, I have. We try many different varieties here. I mean, that's what gardeners do, too.

So let's get into the nuts and bolts of planting rhubarb seeds. When do you plant them here in California? How do you care for them?

Ronni Kern:

I basically plant them year round. Since I'm getting mine from Australia, they're coming in. This is their winter. So fall is when they're harvesting and putting them up. So any time after I got mine, I ordered mine in June, tend to order mine usually around June, partially because we have our plant sale in December every here so i like to grow them up so we can sell them sell the plants at our plant sale i tend to be a very conservative person in terms of putting things into the ground i want them to be really good strong plants so i let them and make sure they have a lot of leaves i basically get them into one gallon pots before i put them in the ground but i've tried many many different ways of germinating them. it really depends sometimes. i used to float them in water on a heat mat until they formed a little seedling and then then put them in my standard one-third sand, one-third perlite, one-third peat starting mix. i've tried this last batch i tried some of that. i just started another batch in what i happen to have around which was pumice, perlite, and peat, and then just one thing that Colin says is that in nature rhubarb seeds just fall on the ground and germinate, so he says you don't have to bury them. you can just put them on top of your planting mix and then put maybe a little light something on that. i put some perlite on mostly because there's a guy in Eagle Rock who germinates really hard seeds from Brazil, and that's what he does. It's just a very light coating of perlite, very easy for the plants to come up through, doesn't get them overly wet.

Ronni Kern:

Colin keeps saying, do not get them too wet, do not get them cold. They do not like that. As I said, some of these things with Tina’s Noble that have like 90% germination, Success usually had excellent germination, this time not so much. And the Crimson Sunrise also has excellent germination.

Farmer Fred:

I didn't soak my rhubarb seeds, as some instructions might imply. There are several states that are facing the same issue we are as far as growing rhubarb. Down in Texas, they have a great publication about growing rhubarb, especially around the Austin, Texas area. and they talk about the fact that you're better off just growing it as an annual because it just gets too hot there in the summertime. And they have fungal issues too, which can be a detriment to rhubarb because of their higher humidity levels in Texas. Whereas here in California, for the most part, we don't have humidity issues. Of course, it depends where you live.

Ronni Kern:

Right. So this year, the humidity has been insane, but I do plant them up a little high. Some places, they actually plant the rhubarb on mounds. I think even Colin plants his on mounds, so you can walk between the mounds to harvest. Any plant that you're worried about, root rot, whether it's a tropical tree or perhaps a rhubarb, there's no harm in planting it on a mound that sort of protects you from too much water. Mostly, I just planted it. I had a birch tree die. The house was 100 years old. The birch had been here 100 years. It died.

I had the people who took it down ship it and leave it there. So the rhubarb was planted in birch chips and did very well there.

Farmer Fred:

Yeah, Colin points out that they send a nice little piece of literature with every order of rhubarb seeds, and they mention, “rhubarb seed hates to be wet and cold. Rhubarb seeds should not be treated like other seeds. Use high-grade propagation mix. Water once when first sown, then don't water again until the seed starts to germinate in approximately 10 days. Depending upon the air temperature, if the soil becomes really, really dry, then water very lightly if absolutely necessary.” I took a chance and I took some of those seeds. I had a blank spot in a raised bed that is in full sun. I scattered some seed. I put on maybe an eighth of an inch of vermiculite on top of it. And it all germinated within three days.

Ronni Kern:

Wow. And that's the ruby, the ruby red?

Farmer Fred:

No, that was the Success.

Ronni Kern:

The Success. Yeah, because the Ruby Red, we've had a terrible time. I think the smaller the seed, the more likely it is that it's going to get crushed. These are the Success seeds from your friend or from Australia?

Farmer Fred:

These are the ones from Australia. And I grew a second batch of rhubarb seed, the ones from the Master Gardener and the ones that are also from French Harvest. I grew them as suggested in containers, in seed starting mix, in a protected area, and they never sprouted.

Ronni Kern:

that's interesting. So the ones that you planted outside in the sun, in a raised bed, sprouted. My problem is animals eat everything, including my dog. I tend not to start things in the ground because they just disappear.

Farmer Fred:

I mentioned this publication out of Texas, How to Grow Rhubarb Texas Style, and they talk about it as growing it as a winter annual. And so I would think that planting the seeds for that would be similar to what it would be in Texas throughout most of California. And that would be to start those rhubarb seeds in August or September.

Ronni Kern:

Well, again, if you're going to grow it as an annual, you can. I mean, I started this batch. The ones in the garden, I've got Crimson Sunrise and a Success of new ones. I planted the seeds in June of 2023. and then I think in July, my granddaughter was here and we up-potted them out of the little seed things to bigger pots. And then I must have put them in the ground in September. And they're huge now. They're absolutely huge. I tend not to harvest my first year because I want good roots. I want these things to be around. But I could have harvested them if I wanted them as an annual crop. Actually, in all honesty, you can grow them anytime in California. We're not going to get the the deep winter so it's not going to go dormant and if you're growing them especially if you're starting them inside you're not going to get the killing heat when they're just little tiny seedlings actually that's the problem for me if you started them now and put them out in time for the Santa Ana’s (heavy winds) down here. Do you get santa anna's up there?

Farmer Fred:

No, we have delta breezes.

Ronni Kern:

Yeah my brother lived in Sacramento for decades and you've got of course you've got uc davis. you've got the mothership of growing fruit. you could probably follow the Texas thing and start them in the fall. Because of wanting to be able to sell them in December, I start them usually around June, July. And by December, they're definitely big. One of my friends, Charles, actually starts his earlier and then they get too big by December. They're actually, they've outgrown their pots. I don't like to sell plants that have outgrown their pots.

Farmer Fred:

Talk about how you harvest the leaves because I understand you don't cut it, you yank it.

Ronni Kern:

Yank it. And this is a problem because I'm not a young kitty cat anymore. And it requires a certain amount of arm strength because you pull it and twist it at the same time. And some of these plants, if they're not really well rooted, you will pull up the whole plant. I have done that with Tina’s Noble a couple of times. And that's why I give plants away because I accidentally pull them out. But you technically don't want to cut them. But Colin has said, if you have to, you can. You know, it's not going to kill the plant. Again, the big issue if you cut them is the risk of rot. If you left a stub and it rots, then it can affect the plant. But at least down here, even where you are, it's so dry. We don't really have the same issues with rot that other places have. But the correct way is to pull it and twist it at the same time. Usually, there's one way to twist it, and you learn faster because it's different. Each stalk, whether you want to twist right or left, and that sort of signals the roots to grow some more. If you cut it, it doesn't get that same signal to grow some more stalks. So, theoretically, you want to pull it and twist it. I did it as a kid. I just can't do it so well anymore.

Farmer Fred:

Did you eat the leaves as a child?

Ronni Kern:

No, no. I was not dumb. I always have people say, oh, is that charred? Can I eat the leaves? No. The leaves are poisonous. The leaves of rhubarb is full of oxalic acid, great rust remover if you have a rust, but you do not want to eat it. When I pull the stalks up, I just break the leaves off and drop them right down back in the garden for mulch. Some people say you have to cut down two, three inches from the leaves.

Ronni Kern:

I don't worry about that.

Farmer Fred:

So what you're preparing in the kitchen then is that petiole, the center part of the leaf, the spine of the leaf.

Ronni Kern:

I just shy away from any mention of eating any part of the leaf because people, I don't want anybody to die.

Farmer Fred:

So basically, you rip off the green part and eat the middle.

Ronni Kern:

Right. Absolutely right.

Farmer Fred:

There. Okay.

Ronni Kern:

And according to Colin, if you catch it in time, when the thing is starting to put up a seed pod, it'll actually have this little lumpy looking thing. He says, you can actually eat that too. Oh, okay. But I never find it in time. But by the time I see it, it's already got flowers. It's like, okay, I got to get this out of here before they sap my root strength.

Farmer Fred:

And if you want a recipe for rhubarb, just ask anybody from the Midwest or back East.

Ronni Kern:

Right. Well, I mean, we have a couple on our website, but there's East Coast. It was always strawberry rhubarb pie. I'm sure that's the Midwest too, because those are the two fruits that ripened in spring, and they were both red. And especially if you had green rhubarb, you wanted that nice red strawberry to make it look not quite so disgusting. My husband actually prefers raspberry rhubarb cobbler. As I said, Charles prefers to roast it, eat it as a vegetable. And most of us who are obsessive are from either the East Coast or the Midwest. And there's a couple of guys from Connecticut who drove all the way up here to get plants for me. I think they've now put in a big order with Colin themselves because they just really wanted rhubarb. And Steve's always sending me recipes for everything that he finds, beverages and desserts and main courses.

Farmer Fred:

I saw one for snacks for kids where you take that center stem and you chop it into little pieces and you cover it in sugar and serve those little pieces as candy.

Ronni Kern:

Well, when I was a kid, that's what I did. I’d steal the rhubarb from this neighbor. I was not a good kid. And we'd run to somebody's steps and with a lap holding a napkin full of sugar in our laps, we would just dip the rhubarb stem in the sugar and eat it. And that's that's that was our happiness and inexpensive treat.

Well, the sugar was cheap back then. Not so much now.

Farmer Fred:

And there is a very short harvest season, isn't there?

Ronni Kern:

Well, no, see, that's the thing. There's a short harvest season if you are in Rhode Island, because it's a spring crop. But here, no, I've been harvesting. I can't even remember when I first started harvesting this year. Basically, it starts November, December. I'm still harvesting. In fact, if I hadn't just harvested 200 bananas, I'd be harvesting now. But right now we're trying to eat our way through the bananas. I can't tell what's a rhubarb.

Farmer Fred:

We should point out we're talking in August. You're talking eight, nine months you've been harvesting from the same plant.

Ronni Kern:

And I think, I think that I probably will be able to... I mean, I have some big stems out there. I'll probably be able to harvest right into September. And then I'll probably stop September, October. November is when it starts to cool down and they'll start to... That's probably when I'll start dividing them. I think I got to talk to Colin about when I should do that. And yeah, so it's basically a nine-month... I mean, I wouldn't call it entirely perpetual. Though I suspect if I had a lot of different varieties under shade, I probably could stretch it out. Because Success and Tina's Noble tend to be strong at different times of year. Crimson Harvest, Sunrise, I don't quite know because it's new to me, but it's looking huge and very healthy. I'm willing to see what it's going to do for me.

Farmer Fred:

Is all that work worth it?

Ronni Kern:

It's not a lot of work. I mean, the starting of the seeds is a hassle just because I'm not a seed person. I'm not very good with little tiny things. I like to be able to dig in big holes. Once you put them in the ground, it's sort of easy to take care of. They don't have bugs. We don't have the diseases. I guess people talk about the fungus. We don't have that. You give them a big, good snack at the beginning of every growing season, some people use manure, I don't use animal products, but I use fish bones, maybe. Give them a good snack at the beginning of the growing season. That's it. And then you harvest them and you eat them. Or you cook them and eat them, depending on what you want to do.

Farmer Fred:

So one warning that I've seen in several places is don't overwater them.

Ronni Kern:

Yeah, well, you don't want them to rot. You want to water them enough that they don't look wilty. But I just have them on the same drip system as the rest of my yard. I water them the same as I water my avocado trees and my lemon trees and my banana trees. Well, my bananas are also on gray water, but everything just basically gets the same amount of water because in California, at least, I don't know where you are, but down here, we can only water twice a week. It's actually, of all the plants I grow, it's probably the least high maintenance because once you get the seeds up and in the ground, they do it themselves.

You just have to keep an eye out for the seeds. You don't want them to go to seed. That's it.

Farmer Fred:

So the answer to the question, can you grow rhubarb in California? Ronni Kern would give you a resounding yes, you can.

Ronni Kern:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Do not hesitate. Just give them some shade. That's the only thing I would say.

Farmer Fred:

Ronni Kern is with the West Los Angeles California Rare Fruit Growers Association. We'll have links in the notes today about where you can read her literature. And it's very enlightening. So if you have a relative from back east and or you're from back east and you fondly want some rhubarb, well, get to it and start growing it. Ronni Kern, thank you so much for all this great information.

Ronni Kern:

Well, thank you, Fred, for finding me. I have no idea how you did it, but you did your research. That's for sure.

Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.

Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.

Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com

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Episodes

Weed Killers Just Got More Confusing
24 Sep· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
In this episode of the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter/podcast, we engage in an in-depth discussion about weed killers with Debbie Flower, America’s favorite retired college horticultural professor. We delve right into the complexities of weed management, addressing the various options available while navigating the maze of products at our local big box stores.
As we stand before a daunting wall of weed killers, the conversation brings clarity to the overwhelming choices, shedding light on the distinctions between the products and their formulations.
We start by tackling the widespread confusion surrounding Roundup, a brand historically synonymous with glyphosate. As glyphosate is being phased out, we explore the newer formulations that have replaced it. Many consumers may assume that Roundup still contains glyphosate, but Debbie explains that consumers must be vigilant in understanding the fine prints of these products.
According to the University of Tennessee publication, “Update on Roundup-Branded Herbicides for Consumers”, Roundup weed-killing products now encompass a range of active ingredients that may vary significantly in toxicity and efficacy. We emphasize the importance of reading labels thoroughly, highlighting the legal implications of using herbicides incorrectly.
Debbie expands on the shift in chemical composition within Roundup by introducing us to several active ingredients like Diquat, Fluazipop, and Triclopyr. We discuss the implications of using these chemicals, including their varying half-lives and their potential effects on soil and nearby desirable plants.
Notably, Debbie reminds us that some products can render soil inhospitable for new planting for extended periods, which is crucial information for gardeners planning their next steps after weed control.
Throughout our discussion, we touch on the critical aspect of safety. Both Debbie and I stress the significance of protecting oneself when applying any chemical herbicide. We explain how understanding the signal words such as “caution,” “warning,” and “danger” on product labels can help consumers navigate the toxicity levels of different herbicides.
The conversation leads us to the point that, while chemical weed control can be effective, many gardeners often overlook traditional methods, like manual weeding and mulching, which can be safer and more environmentally friendly.
We tackle alternative options popular on some Internet gardening sites, including vinegar as a natural weed killer but quickly highlight the hazards of using 30% vinegar, which is often found in the cleaning aisle rather than the gardening section. This topic was also covered in depth in the September 3, 2024 edition of the “Beyond the Garden Basics” newsletter.
We caution gardeners about the need to treat such products with care, as they can be more harmful than conventional herbicides. This well-rounded dialogue between us brings to light both the benefits and the risks associated with various gardening techniques and products.
As we progress, we dig into the technical side of weed killers—discussing how different chemicals are absorbed by plants, persistence in soil, and the necessary wait times before replanting. Debbie provides valuable insights into the environmental impact of chemicals leaching into the soil and waterways and how this can affect crops and landscaping efforts. Our conversation is not merely about identifying the right products but also understanding their broader implications on health and the environment.
Finally, we encourage listeners to be proactive and informed gardeners by seeking out educational resources on reading and understanding product labels, as well as considering effective non-chemical alternatives to weed management.
With all these insights shared, the overarching message is clear: informed decision-making is paramount in effective and safe gardening practices. We leave you equipped to tackle weed problems while fostering a safe and flourishing garden.
And, one more excellent weed suppressant:
(authors: Fred and his pal, AI)
Farmer Fred's Ride For the Kids!
I'm fundraising on behalf of the 2024 Sac Century Challenge on September 28th to raise money for the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery and I could use your support. Here’s the link for making a donation.
On that date, I’ll be riding my bike, a Surly Midnight Special (NOT an e-bike) 100 miles along the Sacramento River to help out the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery. I’ve ridden 100 miles in one day plenty of times…when I was younger.
But at 73, I could use some moral support, and the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery can use your pledge money. So, how about it? Maybe pledge 10 cents a mile (that’s $10) along with a hearty, “You go, Fred!” Or a more generous one dollar a mile ($100), to give me the mental endurance for the entire ride, to dodge the pothole-filled levee roads and pedal harder in the ferocious headwinds that makes this ride a real challenge!
The Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery is the only program of its kind in Sacramento County and directly prevents child abuse and neglect by supporting families with small children at times of crisis. The nursery allows parents to bring their children ages newborn to five for emergency hourly or overnight care during difficult times, with the goal of keeping families together and reducing the number of children entering foster care. To care for our community's most vulnerable children, we rely on support from community members like you. By donating, you empower us to provide a safe haven for children throughout the Sacramento area, offering respite to parents during times of crisis, and building a strong support system for the future. Your support helps provide a safe place to stay local kids in need. Again, here’s the link to make a donation to the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery.
Thank you for your support, and say "Hi!" if you see me pedaling like crazy into a headwind out there on Saturday, September 28th!
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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The Catalina Cherry Tree. The Fruit is for the Birds.
17 Sep· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
Autumn officially begins on Sunday. Fall planting season, however, is already here. The cooler air temperatures, combined with the still-warm soil, are the perfect growing conditions for a new plant. Increasing in popularity, thanks to increased production by wholesale nurseries and the plants’ needs for less water once established, are an increasing number of California native plants.
From the garden e-mail, Evan of San Jose, California wants to know about an evergreen tree or shrub that is native to coastal Southern California but does well in most mild coastal areas of the West Coast that stay above 20 degrees in the winter:
“I just ordered a Catalina cherry for my backyard,” writes Evan. “And I remembered that cherry trees need a pollinizing partner to produce fruit. Unfortunately, I can't find any information about which other cherry varieties are compatible with Catalina cherry. I was wondering if you could help me find a second tree to put in my backyard to pollinize the Catalina cherry. And I was hoping for more of an eating cherry other than the Catalina cherry. So, if there's a variety that my kids might like a little more that I can plant next to this one, I would appreciate it. This will be the first cherry in my backyard.”
The Catalina cherry (Prunus illicifolia subsp. ‘Lyonii’) is a California native shrub or tree, and it does quite well in coastal zones up and down the Pacific coast from San Diego to Seattle (Sunset Zone 5). And perhaps even a wider range. The “Sunset Western Garden Book” says the Catalina cherry’s progenitor, the Prunus illcifolia (the Hollyleaf Cherry), has a range from Sunset Zones 5-9 and 12-24, which would include areas ranging from the hot valleys of California into the Sierra foothills. The tree can survive cold temperatures down to about 20 degrees. I know that some of you like to experiment with growing species that are outside of your area’s normal plant palette. This might be one of them. But, as always, gardener beware. I hope you have more success with this than I had, attempting to get rhubarb seed to germinate.
Some specimens of the Catalina cherry on the coastal Southern California mainland tend to grow on slopes, and that might be a tip for where to plant it, in an area that gets good drainage. And cherry trees are notorious for needing good drainage.
The Catalina cherry can be a tree or a shrub, because it only gets 15 to 20 feet tall, in gardens; but it can get twice that size in the wild. And, it is a true cherry, even though the dark red-to-black cherries themselves are not very tasty. Calscape.org, which is a plant finder service of the California Native Plant Society, says that “the fruit on the tree is best left for the birds” and parts may be poisonous. From Wikipedia:
The pulp of the (hollyleaf) cherry is edible.[4] However, the seeds of the hollyleaf cherry are considered to be toxic, and the plant must undergo certain leaching processes to make it safe for consumption.[24]Native Americans fermented the fruit into an intoxicating drink.[4] Some also cracked the dried cherries and made meal from the seeds after grinding and leaching them.[25] It has also been made into jam.[26]
The method of preparation for the cherry was to first extract and crush the kernel in a mortar, and the resulting powder would then be leached in order to eliminate remaining bad chemicals. The final step was to boil the leached powder into an atole.[24] Once this process was completed, Native Californians would then make soup base, tortillas, or tamale-like foods using the resulting ground meal. Other times, the kernel would be kept whole, leached to remove its hydrocyanic acid content, roasted for a couple hours, and then used to make cakes or balls.[27]
Aside from food, the hollyleaf cherry was also used for medicinal purposes by some Native Californian tribes, including the Diegueño and the Cahuilla. Specifically, infusions made from the bark and roots of hollyleaf cherry plants would be used as treatment for common colds and coughs.[27]
However, the Catalina cherry tree is quite showy, with spikes of five inch-long white to cream-colored flowers in spring, followed by the cherries.
As far as getting more of that fruit that the birds will enjoy, be aware of this: the fruit can stain many hard surfaces. So, plant it well away from the patio or driveway.
What would be a good cherry variety to use as a pollenizer? As you are probably aware as a parental gardener, you never want your children to utter the phrase, “the cherries we bought at the grocery store are better than the cherries we're getting in our backyard”. So, get them a sweet, tasty cherry tree that is self-fertile, but also serves well as a pollenizer for other cherry varieties.
And one of the best for doing that is the Stella cherry. The Stella cherry is a popular tree that does quite well throughout most cherry growing regions, such as ours. It's good for canning, preserves, cooking, and fresh eating. The Stella takes about two to five years after planting to bear fruit. The mature size of the tree isn't that large, perhaps 12 to 16 feet. As far as the watering requirements, it does need regular water, about 12 to 15 gallons per week, May through September.
The problem with having a fruiting cherry tree where you're harvesting for the fruit versus a Catalina cherry where you're using it more as a beautiful, blooming, evergreen screening plant is the fact that the Catalina cherry is drought tolerant when mature. It doesn't like a lot of summer water once it's established, perhaps only once every three weeks or so during the summer. However, you will need to water it regularly to get it off to a strong initial growth through its first year. The Stella cherry tree, on the other hand, will need regular weekly watering during the dry season for its lifetime.
So, what do you do? If that Stella cherry is upwind of the Catalina cherry, you'll be okay to plant it well away from the root zone of the drought tolerant Catalina cherry, on its own irrigation circuit, about 30 feet away.
Farmer Fred’s Ride for the Kids!
I'm fundraising on behalf of the 2024 Sac Century Challenge on September 28th to raise money for the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery and I could use your support. Here’s the link.
On that date, I’ll be riding my bike, a Surly Midnight Special (NOT an e-bike) 100 miles along the Sacramento River to help out the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery. I’ve ridden 100 miles in one day plenty of times…when I was younger.
But at 73, I could use some moral support, and the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery can use your pledge money. So, how about it? Maybe pledge 10 cents a mile (that’s $10) along with a hearty, “You go, Fred!” Or a more generous one dollar a mile ($100), to give me the mental endurance for the entire ride, to dodge the pothole-filled levee roads and pedal harder in the ferocious headwinds that makes this ride a real challenge!
The Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery is the only program of its kind in Sacramento County and directly prevents child abuse and neglect by supporting families with small children at times of crisis. The nursery allows parents to bring their children ages newborn to five for emergency hourly or overnight care during difficult times, with the goal of keeping families together and reducing the number of children entering foster care. To care for our community's most vulnerable children, we rely on support from community members like you. By donating, you empower us to provide a safe haven for children throughout the Sacramento area, offering respite to parents during times of crisis, and building a strong support system for the future. Your support helps provide a safe place to stay local kids in need. Again, here’s the link to make a donation to the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery.
Thank you for your support, and say "Hi!" if you see me pedaling like crazy out there on Saturday, September 28th!
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
- Listen Listen again Continue Playing...
- Listen later Listen later
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What is a Crisis Nursery?
10 Sep· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
Today’s newsletter podcast talks about a Crisis Nursery. No, it’s not an emergency room for sickly looking houseplants; although, the gardening entrepreneurs among you may be thinking…”hmm, that may not be a bad idea!”
The Crisis Nursery we are talking about today deals with the safety of children, and the role the Sacramento Children’s Home has in its survival.
Oh, listen! I hear my dead mother saying, “And what exactly does that have to do with the price of tea in China?” That would be her way of saying, “stay in your lane, Freddie Joe.” Adding, “stick to gardening.”
Sharp-eyed readers of this digital scenic bypass-laden newsletter, ostensibly dealing with horticulture, may know that I include a picture of a bicycle in just about every issue. Because, if I am not in the garden, I’m on my bike.
And sharper-eyed, highly caffeinated readers will recall that I have been plugging “Farmer Fred’s Ride for the Kids” for a few weeks now. At least, that’s what I’m calling it. The Sacramento Rotary Club would prefer to call it by its actual name, the Sacramento Century Challenge, a fundraising 100-mile bike ride (plus shorter rides) on September 28 to raise funds to support the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery program.
Now, I know you came for the gardening here. But thanks for letting me talk about the Crisis Nursery in today’s newsletter podcast with the Sacramento Children’s Home Director of Philanthropy, Todd Koolakian. And if you are adverse to listening to podcasts, a transcript of our conversation is below. The internet links mentioned in the podcast are underlined in the above paragraphs.
And below the transcript, is my garden gift to you for sticking with me all these years: a chart from the UC Davis Post Harvest Technology Department, “Storing Fresh Fruits and Vegetables for Better Taste”, which answers the question: where do all the tomatoes and zucchini (and other backyard garden favorites) go when you bring them into the house? The counter, the refrigerator, or a combination of the two? You’ll want to print this chart out and hang it inside a kitchen cabinet door, for easy reference.
At this point, the sharpest-eyed, super-caffeinated, hyper-critical readers of this newsletter might remark, “Didn’t you publish this in a newsletter two years ago?” Hey, quit waving your trowel at me, Columbo. That time around, it was only the first page of a two page document. Today, it’s both pages of information on storing fresh fruits and vegetables.
But no matter your caffeine intake, thanks for listening and reading all these years.
What is a Crisis Nursery? The Transcript
Farmer Fred
Coming up Saturday, September 28th, I'm gonna be riding my bike. That is not so unusual. If I'm not in the garden, I'm usually on my bike. Well, on September 28th, that happens to be the date for the Sacramento Century Challenge. It's a 100-mile bike ride along the Sacramento River. It starts in downtown Sacramento (on Capitol Mall), heads south through the Delta Farmland region, and then back to downtown Sacramento.
And yes, 100 miles is part of the challenge, as is the bike I'll be riding on. I'm not cheating you. I'll be on an analog bike, not an e -bike. It's my good, trusty, steel-framed Surly Midnight Special. And adding to the challenge, of course, is the route. It's not a very hilly route, the 100 mile route, but it goes along the river on the levee roads, which are full of potholes. And usually in past events in doing this ride, there are some ferocious headwinds, usually on the way back. And making it more of a challenge, and this is where you come in, folks, is helping out the Sacramento Rotary Club raise money for the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery by spurring me on with a donation for the Crisis Nursery.
The Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery is the only program of its kind in Sacramento County. Exactly what do they do? You probably saw the little headline in the newsletter or the podcast that asked the question, “what is a crisis nursery?” And you might be thinking, “some plants are in danger!”
It's better than that. We're talking with Todd Koolakian. He is with the Sacramento Children's Home and the Crisis Nursery. And Todd, tell us a little bit about the Sacramento Children's Home and the Crisis Nursery. The Children's Home has been around since what, the 1800’s?
Todd Koolakian
That is true. Yes, we've been around since 1867. We originated as an orphanage at that time. During the gold rush days, we were started by a group of volunteer women and we've been continuously operating for 157 years.
First, thanks Fred, for having me on to share a little bit more about our events and the beneficiary, the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery. I'm also a member of the Rotary Club of Sacramento and I am the immediate past president. So I had the pleasure of leading the organization last year and now in my retirement of being the president of the club, but still a proud member of the Rotary Club of Sacramento.
And we've been doing this event in partnership together, our two organizations, for 11 years and so proud to benefit from this event and folks like you that are going out and raising money on our behalf.
The Crisis Nursery is a fairly unique program. There's only five crisis nurseries in the state of California. We operate two of them here in Sacramento County. It's a 24 -7 program that serves families with young children that are going through a crisis. And that crisis could really be anything. It could be a medical or mental health emergency. It could be homelessness, an employment crisis, just going through a time of despair and not having somewhere else to turn.
So the crisis nursery is there for families going through any number of those crisis. They can turn to the nursery as a resource to bring their children for anywhere from a few hours up to 30 days, completely free of charge. The nursery can take those small children into their care, providing all the essentials they need. Everything is free, from clothing, food. It’s just a warm, loving place to stay.
And then during that time, we work with the families to help solve their crisis. A lot of the families that we care for don't have a great support system. There's that age old African proverb that says “it takes a village to raise a child”. For a lot of the families that we serve, they don't have that village. And so we provide that village for them and provide some of the supports that they need during their time of crisis. And it's a really great program.
We operate the only crisis nursery in Sacramento County. And like I said, one of only a handful in the state of California. And we're really proud to operate that program. We started it in 1996 and have had it ever since. And we opened up our second location in 2002. So really, it’s a great program. And we really appreciate all the generous support that comes from the Sac Century Challenge. Each year it raises about $100,000 to support our program.
Farmer Fred
That's great. What age of children are eligible to be in the crisis nursery?
Todd Koolakian
Great question. The idea behind crisis nurseries is to serve families with children, infant through age five. So a child from just a few days old all the way up to the day before their sixth birthday, all qualify to come and stay at the nursery.
We can assist families with older children, with other resources. We just can't take them per our licensing in to stay at the facility. So some of the other resources we can provide families with older children, there is all sorts of other supports. You know, our organization, the Sacramento Children's Home, has programs that serve children of all different ages. So we have a lot of other resources, but as far as kids that can actually stay at the nursery, it is from a few days old all the way up to a day before their sixth birthday.
Farmer Fred
Yeah, it's interesting the number of reasons that people would want to avail themselves of your services. I noticed in your annual report that one of the stories cited was about a shooting outside of a bedroom window of a home where a family lived, and they wanted to get their children to safety. And they came to you.
Todd Koolakian
Exactly. It really runs the gamut on the types of reasons that clients come and utilize the crisis nursery. And there really is no right or wrong reason. We are open to anybody and everybody that may need our resource. There's all sorts of scenarios.
What I would say is the connection between all of the different reasons is wanting to ensure that their young children are safe and that they're in a safe place.
I think we've all unfortunately heard about some of the terrible news over the years of
young children at times being left in vulnerable situations. That's what we're trying to avoid with the crisis nursery. And that's why the program's there. We don't want parents to be in a situation where they leave their child with unsafe people or in an unsafe environment. And so that's why the nursery is there. Really, there is no wrong reason to come to the nursery. There's no judgment on our part. Really, any reason is a good reason to come in and utilize that program.
Farmer Fred
What do you tell the parents - or parent - when they come in with a child and want the child to stay there? Do you explain to them that if we see a situation where there's abuse, we will bring in the authorities? Or do you not do that?
Todd Koolakian
All of our programs under the Sacramento Children's Home umbrella really are required to be mandated reporters. So if there's ever in any of our programs any sign of abuse, neglect, anything of that sort, we do have to report that to the authorities. What I will say though is the nursery is intended to be a program that families can use to avoid those situations to prevent child abuse and neglect. So we want the nursery to be a program that parents can use so that those sorts of things don't happen. And that's really why the nursery is there. It's a critical prevention tool for local families.
It's a proven child abuse prevention tool that many of our partners and collaborators in the area know is a proven tool to avoid child abuse and neglect. So that's what we hope parents will use as a means to prevent those situations. Now, what I'll also tell you is we let all of the parents know that are utilizing the program, that there's nothing wrong with them for utilizing the program, that they shouldn't be ashamed, they shouldn't feel like they've done anything wrong as a parent.
One of the greatest things that you can do to be a wonderful parent is to know when you need to seek help. And that's what we really try to drive home with clients that utilize the nursery. It's okay to ask for help. That's actually a really good thing. It means that you're wanting your kids to have the best possible outcome. And that sometimes all of us need a little bit of helping hand and the nursery is there judgment free to assist those sorts of families that might just need a short -term helping hand.
Farmer Fred
And the helping hand is to be extended as well to the Crisis Nursery itself. The reason behind this ride, the Sacramento Century Challenge that I'll be participating in on Saturday, September 28th, is raising funds for the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery. We'll have a link in the show notes and here in the newsletter about how you can donate to the Crisis Nursery through “Farmer Fred's Ride for the Kids”, I'm calling it. It's through an organization called Just Giving. So if you go to JustGiving.com and type in “Farmer Fred” in the search engine, you'll find Farmer Fred's Ride for the Kids, the 2024 Sacramento Century Challenge, right there, where you can help by making a donation.
Not to lay any guilt on you folks, but do I ever ask for money when I answer your garden questions? No, no. I'm asking you now, to perhaps share some of your money with the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery. Thank you very much.
Todd Koolakian, we have certainly learned a lot about the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery. Best of luck. Are you going to be out riding on September 28th?
Todd Koolakian
I won't be riding, but I will be out there as a volunteer. So for folks that are going to ride such as yourself, Fred, and go to the post ride festival, I'll be out there at that event, helping out with manpower. But we'll have a lot of great Rotarians out along the way to assist riders. And it should be a really great event, as it always is year after year.
Farmer Fred
And I would think that you take signups for the ride up to the day of the ride.
Todd Koolakian
We do. We will take people the morning of. And we also have an early registration that folks can do on the Friday before the ride. We'll take signups there as well.
All are welcome. We love to have folks even up until the very last minute show up and ride with us. We'd be happy to have you. It's a well supported event. We have several rest stops along the ride route, as well as safety vehicles that are driving around throughout the event to assist riders that may have a snag in their bike. We never hope that happens, but sometimes things arise and we have folks going around to assist with that.
Farmer Fred
For folks that like to ride, hope to see you out there. Yeah, I should point out that it's not just the 100 mile ride. There's a few other rides involved with the Sacramento Century Challenge. There's the Metric Century, which is 62.1 miles. There's a Half Century, which is 50 miles. And then there's the Fun Rides (36 miles, and 16 miles long). And they all start at a little different time, but all on the morning of September the 28th, a Saturday. So if you're in the Sacramento area and you want to do a nice bike ride along the Sacramento River, you might consider the Sacramento Century Challenge, which begins and ends downtown on the Capitol Mall (on Capitol Avenue adjacent to the state Capitol building.) You can find out more information about the ride and the routes at sacramentocentury.com and we'll have a link to that as well, in the show and newsletter notes. Todd Koolokian, thank you so much for your help and best of luck with the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery.
Todd Koolakian
Thank you, Fred. Really appreciate your support.
After the Harvest, Where Do You Store It?
This time of year, no one walks in from the garden without a handful (or bucketful) of fresh fruits and vegetables. Usually, they end up next to the kitchen sink.
For those just-picked fruits and vegetables to last the longest, where should you put them? On the counter? The refrigerator? Both? Neither?
It’s all neatly displayed in the two graphics further down this column, “Storing Fresh Fruits and Vegetables for Better Taste” from the UC Davis Post Harvest Technology Department and UCANR.
It includes this information on proper storage of fresh fruits and vegetables at home, either from the garden or the grocery store:
Store on Counter at Room Temperature: apples (for less than 7 days), bananas, grapefruit, lemons, limes, mandarins, mangoes, melons, oranges, papayas, persimmons, pineapple, plantain, pomegranates, watermelons, basil (in water), cucumbers (refrigerator is OK for 1 to 3 days), dry onions (well ventilated), eggplant (refrigerator OK for 1 to 3 days), garlic (well ventilated), ginger, jicama, peppers (refrigerator OK for 1 to 3 days), potatoes (well ventilated), pumpkins, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, winter squash.
Ripen on Counter, Then Store in Refrigerator - avocadoes, kiwifruit, nectarines, peaches, pears, plums, plumcots (and I would imagine pluots would be in this category).
Store in Refrigerator - apples, apricots, Asian pears, blackberries, blueberries, cherries, cut fruits, figs, grapes, raspberries, strawberries, artichokes, asparagus, green beans, beets, Belgian endive, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, carrots, cauliflower, celery, cut vegetables, green onions, herbs (not basil), leafy greens, leeks, lettuce, mushrooms, peas, radishes, spinach, sprouts, summer squashes, and sweet corn.
And, as promised…Storing Fresh Fruits and Vegetables for Better Taste…The Chart
And one more time, the link to donate to the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery to support and encourage my 100-mile bike adventure during the Sacramento Century Challenge on Sept. 28, “Farmer Fred’s Ride for the Kids” .
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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Why You Want a Chipper/Shredder, and not a Rototiller.
27 Aug· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
With fall approaching, now might be a good time to invest in some equipment to ease autumn and winter chores as well as improve your soil: making mulch from tree branches with a chipper/shredder, or easing raking chores by gathering the fallen leaves with a device that blows them into a pile, sucks them into a 30-gallon bag, and chops them up into little pieces as they head to the bag, where you can then spread those chopped-up leaves as mulch. In today’s podcast (above) we talk with Brad Gay of JB’s Power Equipment in Davis, California about what to look for when shopping for a chipper/shredder as well as the niftiness of owning a piece of equipment such as a Shred n Vac that can reduce those piles of leaves into gardener’s gold: mulch! These segments were recorded during the first wave of Covid, so there may be mask references. However, I bet we all still have a box of masks somewhere handy.
What You May Have Missed on This Week’s Garden Basics Podcast
But first, a not-so-subtle plug for the latest episode (#354) of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, Lawn Substitutes.
Ripping out or reducing a lawn come fall? In this episode, Fred and America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, discuss lawn elimination and alternative landscape options. They address the challenges of transitioning from lawns to alternative landscapes, including weed management and aesthetics. They explore lawn alternatives that require less maintenance and water, such as no-mow lawns, fescue varieties, and ground cover like dymondia and clover. They caution against over-reliance on artificial turf and emphasize the importance of localized advice and education about plants that thrive in unique ecosystems. They also discuss the need for proper maintenance in all types of landscapes.
Chipper-Shredder vs Rototiller
Are you thinking about buying a rototiller? How about instead purchasing a chipper/shredder? Now, that's a machine that's going to make easy work of chopping up your garden clippings including tree limbs. it's going to make it into the greatest mulch you could possibly own. The latest research shows that rototilling your soil actually damages soil structure and doesn't do anything good for the soil biology. On the other hand, the end result of using a chipper/shredder is going to provide you with a quality of mulch that we like to call, "gardeners' gold".
Northern California Organic Gardening Consultant Steve Zien has some rather strong thoughts on this subject. Go back and listen to his comments back in Episode 89 of the Garden Basics podcast, from 2021.
Thinking that perhaps his opinions may have mellowed on the chipper-shredder vs rototiller choice over the last three and a half years, I recently asked for his thoughts. Nope. No change. Here’s what he had to say (in bullets):
Chipper shredder
Pros:
• Eliminates or dramatically reduces green waste
• Helps eliminate the need for a rototiller
• Provides material for mulch or compost
• When shreddings are applied to soil surface:
• Feeds soil biology – resulting in improvements in:
• Soil structure (pore space diversity)
• Improve movement in soil by water, air, roots, soil biology
• Soil water holding capacity (drought resistance)
• Nutrient holding capacity
• Biological diversity of soil microbes
• Greater variety of nutrients, vitamins etc. available to plants
• Improves pest resistance
• Plant health improves (drought resistance, pest resistance)
• Nutrient availability to plants improve
• Availability of natural growth hormones, vitamins improves
• Nutrient content of vegetables improves
• Sequesters carbon – contributes to the reversal of climate change
• Weed management benefits
• Mulch created by chipper/shredder moderates soil temperatures
• Erosion protection (mulch slows the force of falling rain)
• Mulch created by chipper/shredder repels some pests
Cons:
• Expensive
• Hard work. And, when done, you then have to apply the mulch to soil surface
• Don’t chip diseased material
Rototiller:
Pros:
• Get to smell actinomycetes
• Mental connection to past horticultural practices (although no longer recommended)
• Creates fine seedbed – but soil quickly becomes compacted making it difficult for sprouts to develop
Cons:
• It’s hard work
• Expensive
• Destroys soil structure
• Compacts soil (reducing aeration, drainage, limit root development)
• Fine clays quickly fill in pore spaces
• Increases runoff – transporting soil, nutrients and pesticides into our waterways
• Kills beneficial soil biology
• Makes it harder for your plants to grow
• Harder to obtain water, nutrients, growth hormones, vitamins
• Increases pest susceptibility due in part to:
• Reduced crop health
• Pest management provided by soil biology
• Reduces nutrient content of food crops
• Results in the need for additional irrigation, fertilization, pesticides
• Mother Nature’s natural rototillers (earthworms) are killed by the blades.
• Creates biological imbalance - abundance of bacteria vs. fungi (raises pH)
• Loss in biological diversity in the soil
• Reduction of soil health (results in reduction of plant health)
• Reduces ability of soil to function
• Releases greenhouse gasses (CO2) to atmosphere – contributing to global climate change
• Reduces organic matter content
• Reduces soils water holding capacity – need to irrigate more/more runoff….
• Makes plants more susceptible to drought
• Reduces food for soil biology
• Reduces soil productivity
• Reduces soil cover
• People feel they need to till every spring because previous tillage created a compacted, dead soil below
• Brings up weed seeds so they can germinate
Obviously, Steve has a bleak future as a salesman at Troy-Bilt.
How to Choose a Chipper-Shredder
(Originally aired in Ep. 51 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, “Chipper-Shredder Basics”)
Farmer Fred
We're talking with Brad Gay, he owns JBS power equipment in Davis, California. What are the benefits of owning your own Chipper/Shredder?
Brad Gay
The big, big thing if you're into gardening or if you're just starting out in gardening or whatever level of gardening you're at, the chipper shredder is going to give you a means of changing the soil quality of your garden and you're going to be able to get rid of stuff that you would maybe put in a container that the city or county would pick up; or you would have to haul it off. With this, you can maintain your yard and get rid of your trimmings, your limbs that have fallen down, and will chip them up to a size that is used as a mulch or as a top dressing. You can make your own mulch. If you're just even using them for small pots, you can get mulch and create a good high quality mulch and I can't think of anything better to accomplish that then a chipper-shredder.
Farmer Fred
Chipper shredders are great especially if you have a lot of trees on your property and you're constantly pruning your trees. Instead of throwing those branches away, chop them, shred them. Just add them to the top of your soil as a four inch layer of mulch on your soil. It moderates soil temperature, it inhibits weed production. As it breaks down it feeds the soil, making it richer. It's amazing too if you put four inches of mulch or even four inches of shredded leaves on your garden surface over the winter, and you go back in the spring you move it aside, and you dig down a few inches you'll be amazed at the number of earthworms that are saying thank you for doing that. And earthworms improve the soil too.
Brad Gay
But that's the fun of it. I mean I've been doing my garden for 20-25 years and I can go out and see the change. I don't have weeds, that’s one big thing. But I can actually go into my soil even after it's been watered and planted in there, I can still take my hand and kind of move it into the soil because it's porous enough. That because of the mulch and all the good ingredients have been added to it. To be able to do that takes a while, so a good chipper shredder is like is a very good startup, getting good quality soil going for you.
Farmer Fred
So let's talk about chipper shredder basics, what people should look for when buying a chipper-shredder. I would of course recommend buying it from a known entity, some company that you've heard of before, that has produced lawn and garden equipment as opposed to going online and seeing a bunch of names you don't know. But when you're looking at the specs of a chipper shredder, what are the specs you should pay attention to?
Brad Gay
Well, the big one I look at is what's driving your chipper, what's driving the shredder apart. These are two different entities there that are combined and one is a wheel typically, that has a cutter blade. Probably about four inches long but it's very hard steel. Probably two of them on what I call a wheel. And then the other part is on the other side. It has a bunch of little edger blades that are on small half inch shaft that spin around, and they will shred leaves. But the chipper part is very important because that reel that you have on there that's holding those blades, you want that to have some weight, because when they have that weight on there, that's what's going to pull the limb in and chop chop, chop it up. If you notice if you have somebody in your neighborhood who has been around and you'll hear that whirring sound that's going on, they have this huge flywheel turning. That's probably a commercial chipper, and it has some pretty good sized blades in there that can eat up like a nine inch limb or something like that. But you can get that same technology as a gardener for your smaller chipper Shredder. And I usually recommend about a 40 pound flywheel will be just about a good place to start. You have to look in to see if that entity exists on what you're going to buy. And you're not going to get it in your cheaper versions, like you say, you'll get something that's labeled a chipper shredder, but you're talking about things...well, I've been there. And believe me I've had things that have turned my fingernails black and blue because I'm trying to force a limb through there like I got a baseball bat hitting a steel post, it just rattles around. So you want to get something that's got a big flywheel, 40 pounds plus, and it'll help suck those limbs in through with very little effort and grind up a hardwood versus the softer wood. It does a great job.
Farmer Fred
What size branch diameter branch can a 40 pound flywheel handle?
Brad Gay
Well, depending on what you've got, usually I'm gonna say three inches, in some cases it's four inches, I think on a BCS model, it can take a four inch limb on there. But what's nice is you can take a good three, four inch limb, shove it down into the chipper shredder and I usually get it from where it is to the point where that now you're having the branches which with which would have leaves or smaller limbs and then when it gets to that point, you can take it out and then pick it up and put it over into your Shredder. And then that shredder will go in take care of the rest of the stuff the smaller limbs that if there's leaves on there, it'll take care of that as well and it just turns it into a fine, finer mulch. And a good chipper shredder, it will actually have plates where that mulch exits through, after it's been chipped, through a grid. And you can put in whatever size you want in there to make those pieces what size you want. Or if you're just doing corn stalks and you just want to reduce... like you grow popcorn, now you got to get rid of the stalks. Instead of throwing it into the greenwaste, you can instead shred that down. Well I take that grid out just to beat them up to go, so I can actually work it back in there. But they do have grids that you can install and it can make that mulch whatever size you want. It's actually a nice feature and that's what's pertinent in getting the good soil and mulch that you want for your gardens.
Farmer Fred
You know you brought up a very good point there, and the fact that we've been talking about chipping and shredding tree limbs, but for your vegetable waste in your garden, your corn stalks, or even your tomato branches, you could put those through a chipper shredder, probably the shredder portion.
Brad Gay
Oh I take all my grapes. I got these runners off of my grape plant that is trellised along a 300 foot fence that goes alongside of my yard and I put it all into grapes. And it's all table grapes. So you know grapes, and the grapes are one of those plants where you can literally watch it grow. So you've got these runners that are you know 10-15 feet long. And I'll just cut those off in the fall and I'll bring those over and get rid of all of that. And you have to make sure when you're using your chipper shredder, by the way, if you're doing this because if you get you put a bunch of these grape vines that you're sticking in your shredder, it is like sucking spaghetti into your mouth. This “Spaghetti” starts spinning around and flipping around, except this is a like a whip. So you have to wear eye protection, hearing protection, long sleeves, leather gloves so that you don't get smacked. And it gets rid of a lot of stuff you just never thought of before: all your fruit tree trimmings, when you prune trees in the winter to get things ready for your peach trees and apricot trees. All those trimmings you can put through a chipper shredder too. And what you have in pile there will reduce it to at least 12 to one or more. It's amazing what comes out after you do that.
Farmer Fred
I would like to reinforce your safety comments because anybody who's ever owned a chipper shredder and attempted to throw in some thinner, but longer branches. Like grape branches, for example, yes, they will whip at you because of the friction, the sucking action of the shredder that just basically tries to suck it all in. And in the meantime, you've lost hold of those branches and they start whipping around.
Brad Gay
Oh, yeah, you just let it go. It's like I got a bunch of whips. So yeah, you just want to protect yourself. I would say protect yourself. Like you're gonna go into a beehive. You know, you don't have to have that big big helmet on but you know, have eyeglasses on the helmet or a hat or something? I wear headphones for my ears just for the noise and all that that it deals with. So I protect myself quite well when I go out there.
Farmer Fred
And please do wear gloves and take off any jewelry or wristwatches you might have as well.
Brad Gay
Oh yeah, and keep track of your pruning shears.
Farmer Fred
Yes, yes. Yeah, don't keep your eyeglasses in your top breast pocket. Yeah, it's, it's follow all safety instructions when you get a chipper Shredder.
The cost of a chipper shredder is not cheap, but I'd rather see people invest in a chipper shredder than a rototiller. More and more research coming out about roto-tilling soil is that it does the soil no good at all, you're better off doing no tilling whatsoever, and more and more farmers are going that route as well. So take that money that you might want to spend on a rototiller and put it into a chipper shredder. what is the price range for a decent chipper shredder?
Brad Gay
Well, it starts at about I would say about 800 bucks with entry level if you get a Bearcat. And that’s in the near and dear two inch to three inch chipper shredder range. That's light use. And that's a good starter. And it certainly will do the job and it doesn't take care of what the next level is, which is about 1200 a little over 1200 dollars. And it will take on a three inch limb and everything I've been talking about. I've had my chipper shredder for years, it's got to be 25 years plus. And you just have to maintain it. But it's one of the most useful things when you need it. And then you don't have to deal with a pile of trimmings and try to get it to the garbage can or get it out of the yard on the curb, if they still do that where you live; or have to haul it off somewhere. Now you can take that and make it into a very useful product that will benefit your own garden. It starts about 800 bucks. And you can go up to in the two to three inch range. For $2000-$3000 you go into four inch range.
Farmer Fred
Talk a little about the different brands that are available. You mentioned Bear Cat, I own a BCS and they are both high quality chipper shredders.
Brad Gay
Oh, BCS is an excellent chipper Shredder. that's what I have. Go to BCS America website if anybody wants to go into it. That is a great site just to visually see what a chipper shredder can do for you and your garden. I mean it's amazing, the gentleman who did the video. He incorporates a lot of stuff in his in the mulch and cardboard for instance, he's taken cardboard, newspaper and those leaves of limbs and everything else has been debris that normally you would throw in a trash can or try to get, you have to get rid of it somehow. Or leave it in a big pile and let the rodents get in there and live healthy. But the best way is running all of it through a chipper Shredder. But that's a very good video, just go to that site, BCS America, a very good quality chipper shredder. Bearcat is very good. We also sell DR, which is Country Homes Products, they offer very good chipper shredders, we have accessibility for Bear Cat locally. So that’s for people who want something that they can actually come in and buy it locally. I can get it rapidly. If I have to get DR that takes usually seven to 10 days. And BCS takes me about five days to get their stuff. So those are three of the top names that are out there that I would recommend.
Farmer Fred
When one goes online and sees the array of chipper shredders. They're going to, I think, see the majority of them, unfortunately, are electric powered. I don't know if, "unfortunately" is the right word or not. But it just seems to me that a gas powered chipper shredder has more power than something that's powered by 110 volt electric.
Brad Gay
We used to sell the electric, this was some years ago. And in Davis, there was a viable need because most of the gardens there, are relatively small, I would consider. And they were using for table scraps and clippings and leaves and stuff like that. And they work well. But the problem with it, it had to fit in a slot to get it to go down into this chipper shredder contraption. The opening is about the size of a medium size book, it was only like two inches, two and a half inches wide, and maybe 12 inches long. And it was like you're trying to squish things down into this slot to get it in there to work. They've improved it quite a bit better. But with gas powered units, a lot of my problems are, if you get something in there, you get too much in there and it starts to plug up. And then you need to stop it. With gas power, you can shut the engine off. But if electric, if you do cause that thing to run and not be, actually turning over, you can cook those motors pretty easily. And we found that there was not a substantial amount of electric failures. But it's like a an electric lawnmower, if you use electric lawnmower, and you're out there trying to cut grass that's 12 inches tall, you're slowing that motor down, a lot those motors overheat. And because you're plugged into the grid, it's just endless energy and those motors overheat. And so I don't give them a real thumbs up on quality. I know electric products have really kind of taken over the imagination for most people out there as far as tools and that, but I don't think this is money well spent, at least at this point.
Farmer Fred
And whichever unit you get, you want to follow all the instructions in the booklet that it comes with. And you mentioned a problem that all chipper shredders have be they electric or gas: they can sometimes jam up. And yes, very important to turn that motor off as soon as you sense that it is not chipping or shredding.
Brad Gay
Yeah, you'll lose a belt or you'll cook a motor is what will happen if it's electric. But the belt, if you lose the belt, now you're done. And you got to go get a belt. We do restock belts for what we sell and we have access to them fairly rapidly. But you're done for the day, you just don't go down to a hardware store or auto parts store and buy another belt. That's just a mess. It's not gonna happen. So you got to stop those things relatively quickly.
Farmer Fred
All right, chipper shredder, great investment for making your own mulch from not only tree branches, but your garden, your grape vines, your corn stalks, any sort of woody material can become your mulch in your garden.
Brad Gay
Oh yeah, it's tremendous. Yeah, what it is I would recommend that I agree with you about the roto tiller and the chipper Shredder. I would spend the money on the chipper shredder first and then if you need a roto tiller I use a roto tiller but I've got a pretty good sized piece of ground but it's not used as much as I did before. I don't need to do that.
Farmer Fred
We've been talking with Brad Gay from JB's power equipment in Davis, California. Chipper shredders: every gardener should own one. Thanks, Brad.
Brad Gay
Thanks, Fred. Good talking to you.
What About Electric Chipper/Shredders?
For that, we turn to Debbie Flower, who owns an electric chipper-shredder, the 15 amp Sun Joe. Her review:
My chipper is a Sun Joe 15 amp Electric Wood Chipper/Shredder plug-in, model #CJ602E. I have had the pleasure of using it only a few times. It is a compact, easy to store machine. The 6” wheels and light weight make it easy to move around the yard.
The hopper at the top accepts material to be chipped, and a plastic device that fits in the hopper is attached making it safe to push wood into the chopper. Chips come out the bottom. To collect the chips I put a larger grow pot, about 12” tall, under the output hole. Chips are smaller than those of arborist chippings and great to add mulch to the garden.
The Sun Joe makes quick work of wood that is stiff and up to 1.5” diameter, the maximum suggested to put in it. Letting fresh prunings from live plants dry a day or two makes it easier to chip them. Fresh prunings do get chipped but the thinnest of these and any leaves attached are more likely to clog the machine then they do if they are a bit drier.
I have tested the machine by pushing branches larger than the suggested limit through the hopper. They did go through and get chipped, but the strain on the machine was evident by the noises it made and, eventually, how hot it got.
I am somewhat disappointed in how poorly it handles the thinnest branches. They go in the hopper and either come out the bottom in long, maybe a foot long, pieces, or they clog the machine. The machine does not successfully chip soft plant material like dead stems of herbaceous perennials. Because of this I have not tried to shred leaves using the Sun Joe.
I am not one to purchase every new-fangled garden tool but am happy to have this one in my garage. It was not expensive, is very easy to use, requires little maintenance, and the chips I get from the it add to the mulch in my garden.
My thoughts about electric-chipper shredders are closely aligned with Brad Gay’s opinion (above). Reviewers of this electric chipper shredder say they have issues including the shredding problems mentioned by Debbie, and the overheating problem she mentioned. As Brad said, it’s cheaper to replace a belt on a gas chipper/shredder when the machine gets overwhelmed to the point of freezing up with material jammed in the hopper, than it is to replace a burned out electric motor. And make sure you plug the unit into a 20 amp outlet, not 15, to avoid tripping either the house circuit or the overload circuit on the machine. And as with any outdoor electric-powered garden implement, make sure you have the right gauge extension cord which is determined by the power pull of the unit as well as the length of the extension cord.
Reviews of Sun Joe chipper shredders by owners on Amazon also complained about the unit’s inability to chop thin branches, as well as the difficulty to replace the blades, which need to be sharp to do an effective job. Still, most reviewers were very satisfied with this particular Sun Joe 15 amp chipper-shredder. One reviewer did offer a helpful suggestion to avoid clogging situations: “If you feed large branches up to 1" (or more) you really have to hold on to them and only let it take a little at a time, pull it up off the cutter (still inside the safe area) then feed more. One reason it jammed is that when it passes the safety cover it's still several inches long, which is good safety wise, but it will fall over onto the cutters when you're no longer holding on to it. That ends up turning that 1" diameter stick into a 1 1/2" + oval. (turn a cylinder on an angle and it's a long oval) Feed something small along side it and it will keep it vertical. That can help. I learned to just chip smaller stuff.”
Farmer Fred’s Ride for the Kids!
I'm fundraising on behalf of the Sacramento Rotary Club’s 2024 Sacraamento Century Challenge bike ride on September 28th to raise money for the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery and I could use your support. Here’s the link.
On that date, I’ll be riding my bike, a Surly Midnight Special (NOT an e-bike) 100 miles along the Sacramento River to help out the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery. I’ve ridden 100 miles in one day plenty of times…when I was younger.
But at 73, I could use some moral support, and the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery can use your pledge money. So, how about it? Maybe pledge 10 cents a mile (that’s $10) along with a hearty, “You go, Fred!” Or a more generous one dollar a mile ($100), to give me the mental endurance for the entire ride, to dodge the pothole-filled levee roads and pedal harder in the ferocious headwinds that makes this ride a real challenge!
The Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery is the only program of its kind in Sacramento County and directly prevents child abuse and neglect by supporting families with small children at times of crisis. The nursery allows parents to bring their children ages newborn to five for emergency hourly or overnight care during difficult times, with the goal of keeping families together and reducing the number of children entering foster care. To care for our community's most vulnerable children, we rely on support from community members like you. By donating, you empower us to provide a safe haven for children throughout the Sacramento area, offering respite to parents during times of crisis, and building a strong support system for the future. Your support helps provide a safe place to stay local kids in need. Again, here’s the link to make a donation to the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery. Or do it because this newsletter is still free (for now).
Thank you for your support, and say "Hi!" if you see me pedaling like crazy out there along the Sacramento River on Saturday, September 28th! Here’s the link to help support the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery.
All About Leaf Mulchers
(Originally aired in Episode 54 of the Garden Basics podcast, “Easy Leaf Mulch”)
EASY LEAF MULCHING
Farmer Fred:
We're talking with Brad Gay from JB's Power Equipment in Davis. And if you're a gardener, every fall, if you have leaves or if your neighbors have trees with leaves, those leaves make an excellent mulch, they can improve your garden soil, and it's pretty easy to improve your soil. If you don't have a winter garden. When those leaves fall in October, November, December. you grind them up, you put them on your garden bed, stack it up as tall as you want, four inches, eight inches, 12 inches. and then the following spring, you've got improved soil, no question about it. The problem is, all right, how do you gather up those leaves? How do you grind them up? In the past, what I've done is use the leaves from my neighbor’s 60 foot Pin Oak tree. So I'll go over there, rake her leaves, put them in a metal 30 Gallon Trash Can, stick my string trimmer down into that metal trashcan and sort of whip it around and grind up those leaves. It does an okay job but not really a great job of making all those leaves smaller. There's something on the market that if you want to do that, too, it makes it a heck of a lot easier. We're talking with Brad Gay from JB's Power Equipment in Davis. And Brad, I like the idea of having a tool that sucks up the leaves and grinds them and then I can just dump it onto the garden bed. That sounds pretty darn easy. What are those instruments of destruction?
Brad Gay:
Well, it's a great tool, it's a conversion of your handheld blower, is what it amounts to. And they've gone in and adapted the front of the blower that brings in the air for the blower to blow out the pipe to blow your leaves. Well they put a tube on that so now it becomes a vacuum. And the blower exit you would be blowing has a curved tube to it. that attaches to a bag before you put that tool on, If you look on the inside of that blower, there are little metal shredders, something you wouldn't want to touch.
Farmer Fred:
Thank you.
Brad Gay:
That way you can't run it with that tube off.
Farmer Fred:
Yeah, that's great.
Brad Gay:
So that's a very strong safety feature. But it's metal, like a mower blade, but a real small version of it. That's a shredder. So now you can go in and suck up all the leaves in these areas. And it hits that shredder device and puts it in your bag and it's a 12 to one ratio reduction. So in areas like under shrubs that you've got that you can't get to as easily or let's say your around a pool and you're in corners where leaves are collected. In my case I have large Sycamore leaves. So now you got to reduce that to be able to use it. So by using this, by sucking that debris up and going through that shredder, it reduces that down. And most of the pieces are about less than the size of a dime, which is pretty good considering how big that leaf was originally.
Brad Gay:
I've been very satisfied with it, you save a few steps, you just take it out, dump it. You can use it right then as long as you don't have to go shred it up. I live in a house that has two huge sycamore trees. And before I had a chipper shredder, or had a vac and sack or a shredder vac, I had tarps that I would hold in my backyard and put them on my garden. And I'd have piles back there. Well, it reduced really well. But for corn leaves, which are a pretty good sized leaf. So in the spring, I'd go out there, and there at the bottom of the pile there's still some of those leaves in their original configuration. Wow, since I've started doing the chipping and the shredding and reducing that and then putting it on a yard, it's done. it's mulch. it's ready to use right then. There's no big piles anymore. So that vac and sack, That's a great tool to have.
Farmer Fred:
Yeah, I noticed on your website, JBSpower.com, that the Echo people have one called a shredding vac. And actually, it's three units in one because it's a blower, like a typical leaf blower, it's a vacuum. And it's a shredder mulcher.
Brad Gay:
Yeah, that's the whole thing. But it's got a nice bag on it so that when the bag has a strap that goes over your shoulder, it's like you're carrying it. it has a rear handle to it. So usually you have an upper handle on a blower or a handheld blower, well, this actually has a rear handle, so you can hold it and the upper handle, so you got two hands on there. And then you have a strap that's on the bag that you put over, like a backpack kind of sling that goes over your back. So then you power the leaves in that bag. Well, when that starts getting heavy, that's about time for you to go dump it. So I'm gonna say it’s about a 30 gallon, plastic bag container. Not quite that but it's a good amount that you can pick up and get rid of all that debris in a timely fashion. So you can go do other things in your garden.
Farmer Fred:
Now we're talking here about the Echo shredding vac. But I imagine there's other manufacturers with very similar items.
Brad Gay:
yeah, there is. Stihl has one, there's is the same idea. We also sell that , which is competitively priced. The same thing, there's no difference. everybody's producing stuff like that. But both of these companies are top of the line. And they're run by people that if you do have a problem with this piece of equipment, you've got someplace to go to which is a good thing to fall back on. That's what I meant. Buy the best and cry only once, a little bit. But you generally just don't have the problem.
Farmer Fred:
The Echo unit we're talking about and I imagine the Stihl unit as well. They're both two stroke gas engines, correct?
Brad Gay:
That's correct. Wear a dust mask when you're doing this.
Farmer Fred:
Yeah, we got plenty of masks these days.
Brad Gay:
Well, yeah, everybody has access to those for some reason. Yes.
Farmer Fred:
All right. garden mulch. I've preached it for years. It's the one of the best things to add to your garden and you don't have to till it in. you can just lay it on top. You can plant around it. garden mulch has numerous benefits. It blocks weed seeds from sunlight so they don't germinate. It promotes better water retention. It provides needed nutrients as it decomposes. It moderates soil temperatures as well. Mulch is wonderful. Why not make it yourself from the things that are around you, that are falling, tree branches or leaves. I think a shredding vac is the way to go for just about every gardener.
Brad Gay:
I've been using it for about three years now. But you know when I'm so glad that I got a number of friends that have similar landscapes and they have it and they use them quite a bit themselves too. It's really a nice handy tool. There you go. If you need a blower you've got a blower too. So if you want to just blow things around, get it into a pile and then put the bag on there and the other hose and now you can shred everything up out of your pile. So it's a two in one, three in one device.
Farmer Fred:
Well, I thank you and my next door neighbor with the 60 foot tall Pin Oak Tree thanks you as well, with this information about the shred and vacuum. If you're going to have one garden tool that might set you back a couple hundred bucks, this would be the one to have, to make your own mulch and improve your soil. We've been talking with Brad Gay from JBS Power Equipment in Davis, California. Brad, thanks so much.
Brad Gay:
Fred, it's always a pleasure talking to you.
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Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

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Can You Grow Rhubarb in a Warm to Hot Climate? Yes!
20 Aug· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
If you’re a transplant from a colder USDA Zone to a warmer zone, you may have fond memories of rhubarb pie, strawberry-rhubarb jam, rhubarb crisp, or something more exotic, such as Rhubarb-Blueberry Upside Down Cake. But if you now live in USDA Zones 9 or 10, you may be wondering, is it too hot here in the summer to grow rhubarb? Is it too warm in the winter here to grow rhubarb?
Yes you can! But leave your rhubarb growing techniques back in Wisconsin. The trick to growing rhubarb here is: start from seed, not roots; use varieties that are developed for milder climates; and grow them in the shade.
In the podcast above, we talk with Ronni Kern of the West Los Angeles chapter of the California Rare Fruit Growers Association. She has all the details for growing it successfully here in California and in other milder climates.
But before we dive into the pit of endless rhubarb, a bit of business:
“It’s All About the Soil (for a Successful Garden!)”
Did you listen to Episode 353 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast? It’s entitled, “It’s All About the Soil (for a successful garden!)”.
We chat with Kevin Marini, a community education specialist with UC Cooperative Extension in Placer and Nevada Counties, about the topic of soil and gardening. We discuss the pros and cons of using native soil versus commercial soil, the importance of improving native soil, the use of bagged mixes and raised beds, and the role of organic matter and fertilizers in gardening. We also touch on the benefits of mulch and the importance of proper watering techniques. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding and improving soil for successful gardening.
You’ll want to listen to it twice, as well as reading the transcript, for all the handy gardening tips and tricks we mention to achieve an outstanding garden.
The podcast (along with a transcript) is available now wherever you get your podcasts. But if you want an accurate, corrected transcript along with the podcast, go to GardenBasics.net . Thank you for listening (and/or reading!)
Farmer Fred’s Ride for the Kids!
I'm fundraising on behalf of the Sacramento Rotary Club’s 2024 Sac Century Challenge bike ride on September 28th to raise money for the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery and I could use your support. Here’s the link.
On that date, I’ll be riding my bike, a Surly Midnight Special (NOT an e-bike) 100 miles along the Sacramento River to help out the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery. I’ve ridden 100 miles in one day plenty of times…when I was younger.
But at 73, I could use some moral support, and the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery can use your pledge money. So, how about it? Maybe pledge 10 cents a mile (that’s $10) along with a hearty, “You go, Fred!” Or a more generous one dollar a mile ($100), to give me the mental endurance for the entire ride, to dodge the pothole-filled levee roads and pedal harder in the ferocious headwinds that makes this ride a real challenge!
The Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery is the only program of its kind in Sacramento County and directly prevents child abuse and neglect by supporting families with small children at times of crisis. The nursery allows parents to bring their children ages newborn to five for emergency hourly or overnight care during difficult times, with the goal of keeping families together and reducing the number of children entering foster care. To care for our community's most vulnerable children, we rely on support from community members like you. By donating, you empower us to provide a safe haven for children throughout the Sacramento area, offering respite to parents during times of crisis, and building a strong support system for the future. Your support helps provide a safe place to stay local kids in need. Again, here’s the link to make a donation to the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery. Or do it because this newsletter is still free (for now).
Thank you for your support, and say "Hi!" if you see me pedaling like crazy out there along the Sacramento River on Saturday, September 28th!
Can You Grow Rhubarb? Yes!
Here’s the transcript of the podcast (above) chat with Ronni Kern of the West L.A. California Rare Fruit Growers. There are lots and lots of hot links in the transcript to get you to more information about rhubarb and more!
TRANSCRIPT - How To Grow Rhubarb in USDA Zones 9 and 10.
Farmer Fred:
As you are probably very aware, I've been answering garden questions here in Northern California for, well over 40 years, actually. And nobody ever asked me about rhubarb until I visited the eye doctor a few months ago. And besides her questions, which are usually, “Which is clearer, the first one or the second one?” “One or two?” Her other question was, “Can you grow rhubarb here?”
And nobody in all those years has ever asked me about growing rhubarb before. And I mentioned that to her and I said, well, I'll look into it and see what it is. Now, this was back about five months ago. And since then, what an adventure it has been about the history of rhubarb, the history of rhubarb in California, and how to grow it, and all the varieties. And the short answer to my eye doctor's question is, “yes,” with a few reservations. But to even add more to this story, at a recent gathering of the Master Gardeners of Sacramento County, of which I'm one, I came across a Master Gardener who is growing it here in Sacramento, and she sent me a picture of it. And it is gorgeous. It is growing in full sun, which to find out, can be chancy. But it's doing great. It's a variety called “Success” that she found in Australia, in a seed catalog, French Harvest. We'll get into that, too, because this little voyage with rhubarb is going to take us around the world.
Farmer Fred:
It's an amazing journey, so stick around and you'll find out a lot. We are talking with Ronni Kern. Ronni Kern is with the California Rare Fruit Growers Association, and she is down in West Los Angeles for that chapter. And I'm very familiar with the California Rare Fruit Growers here in the Sacramento area. And one thing I know about them, they love to experiment. They love to try new things. That's the whole idea of being a gardener. And the California Rare Fruit Growers Association is full of very curious gardeners. And Ronni is one of those. Ronni Kern also had the same issue I had with finding rhe answer to the question, can you grow rhubarb in California?
Farmer Fred:
And for years, it was like, no, you can't. It gets too hot here. It doesn't get cold enough in the wintertime. Well, California has a lot of climates. And in fact, in her research about growing rhubarb in California, she discovered that actually it was a thriving crop at one time here. Actually, the rhubarb seeds that were developed here, that grew here, came from a very famous seedsman, and you know him well, Luther Burbank, who farmed in Santa Rosa, which, as you may know, gets rather hot as well, over 100 degrees in the summertime. And he was very effusive about the varieties of rhubarb that he was growing. When I start mentioning this about rhubarb to people, if they're from the Midwest, oh, their eyes light up because they remember, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to love rhubarb pie, fresh rhubarb, jellies and jams.
Farmer Fred:
And they're usually from the Midwest or back east, as is Ronni Kern. Ronnie, you were born and raised in Rhode Island?
Ronni Kern:
Well, actually, I was born in Brooklyn, but I was raised in Rhode Island.
Farmer Fred:
It sounds like your parents, though, would have no business being in New York City, considering how much they loved fresh picked fruit.
Ronni Kern:
Well, my mother loved fruit. My dad was the one from Brooklyn. My dad was not much of an eater until lwhen I was in my 20s, I had a huge organic garden in Vermont and suddenly discovered, oh, “vegetables have taste”. Because when he was growing up, his mother didn’t cook. And my mother cooked frozen vegetables. So he basically was not an eater. My mother was. So it was my mother who was the fruit person. My dad, not so much. Steak, a couple of vegetables. That was it. And I went to college without knowing what a cauliflower was. I mean, to give you some idea of New England upbringing in the 50s. But no, I mean, fruit growing, fruit was a huge part of my childhood because of my mother and because of New England and where I lived. A lot of fruit grew there back then. And I guess it still does. I'm not there now, I've been in California for over 50 years.
Farmer Fred:
Well, rhubarb has sort of the same kind of legal history as tomatoes, in that it took a court in New York to decide that rhubarb should be considered a fruit, because it is primarily used in desserts.
Ronni Kern:
Right. Well, you know, the actual name they used to call it in England was “pie plant” because it was the first thing to come up in the spring when there was snow was on the ground. So people could make pies out of it. And yeah, they consider it definitely a fruit. Though one of my main propagator friends in the West LA chapter, Charles Portney, actually doesn't use it as a fruit because he is pre-diabetic. So he roasts it and cooks it with onion and garlic and olive oil. And he loves it that way. So you can consider it a vegetable. It isn't a vegetable. Burbank considered it a vegetable, but most of us consider it a fruit. And the California Rare Fruit Growers, all right, we're growing it as a fruit. Others grow it as a vegetable.
Farmer Fred:
It has quite the history here in the United States. Allegedly, Ben Franklin brought it over from France. The history of rhubarb goes back to ancient China, where they found it in the mountains of China. So it has a very good cold tolerance. I think here in the United States, it can grow down into USDA Zone 2, which would be probably where my relatives were farming back in North Dakota. But the problem with growing rhubarb, though, has to do with summertime heat, which can really can knock it back for certain varieties. And tell us about your adventure and how you came upon Luther Burbank and all these other rhubarb varieties.
Ronni Kern:
Well, you know, when I came to California, I wanted to grow rhubarb. I mean, that's what I grew up eating. And so I go to the nursery, but all they sell is Victoria. Victoria, some people can grow, but does not really do well in Southern California. It grows as an annual. You put it in the ground, you get a crop, and it dies. And I was frustrated because it never got really big. It never got really sweet. And rhubarb, actually, if it's good, it's sweet. But I gave up on it.
Ronni Kern:
Basically, I said, all right, this is not working. I grew other things. And then four or five years ago, five years ago, I got cancer. And after that, I said, I've got to really figure out rhubarb. You know, time is limited here. So I started researching, and that's when I came upon Burbank and his book, “Luther Burbank, his Methods and Discoveries” has a big chapter on rhubarb. And he said it can be grown, his could be grown in arid, warm, arid climates. I thought, oh, I need some of that stuff. And I thought, okay, no big deal. He was in Santa Rosa. I'll get some of his roots.
Ronni Kern:
Unfortunately, the more I researched, the more I discovered, the roots had disappeared. Somebody bought the patent when he died, and then they got moved on and moved on. But the land was more valuable for housing development or industrial development. And ultimately, his roots were all plowed under, which broke my heart, broke the heart of David Karp, who was a great writer on fruit, well-known around the country. I knew that there were people who must have still had the roots. I bought rhubarb at the farmer's market here from a woman from Valley Center (near San Diego), which is where the last commercial fields were. I have friends who live in Valley Center, but I couldn't find any. And nobody knew about any of that. They had other varieties, cherry and this and that, but nobody knew if they were actually Burbanks. And so that's when I went back to his book and discovered he'd gone to New Zealand to get the roots. And I couldn't get roots then. It was during COVID. I found this wonderful company, French Harvest in Australia.
Ronni Kern:
It's a family that's been growing rhubarb for four generations. Colin Clayton (and his wife, Tina) is the last generation. He wrote a book on rhubarb, which I have in front of me. I started ordering seeds from them. And I passed them out to my members who were interested in propagating. Mostly Charles and I produced most of the plants that have now been spread across Southern California. And people are just going crazy for the stuff because it does grow year round. It does grow in our heat. I do grow it in shade. I have it on my north side of my house where it's happier. But people are growing it almost anywhere. And it's doing really, really well. And we're now in year four and it keeps coming. It's perpetual. It doesn't ever really die back entirely. It slows down. This time of year, it's already starting to curl up. Probably September, October, it'll be looking pretty peaked. And then November when the rains come, hopefully it'll start coming back again. In fact, my big problem is figuring out how to divide roots here because you normally divide divide roots when they're dormant in the winter on the East Coast or Midwest or wherever. And we don't really have that season. I'm a stubborn person. I've been researching my whole life. I was a writer my whole life. A lot of my work was historical, and I just got into the habit of doing a lot of research. And so finding Burbank's book on archive.org or the old news articles that would announce his latest discovery. I mean, he grew strawberry-flavored rhubarb. He grew raspberry. He was a lunatic, and I don't know how much of it was just hype and marketing and how much of it was real.
Ronni Kern:
I don't want to diss Luther Burbank, obviously, but other people were growing it.
Farmer Fred:
I can do that. I can diss him for you if you would like. You made a reference to an old newspaper clipping, and you had it posted in one of the West LA CRFG chapter newsletters, which is online. And it was from the Los Angeles Herald newspaper of 1904. Thank you. And it says, “concerning an improvement on the Australian crimson winter rhubarb, so highly prized by all who have used it, Luther Burbank of Santa Rosa answers an inquiry from the California fruit growers as follows. He said, my last new rhubarb is a variety which produces luscious, juicy stalks perpetually throughout the year, and which do not have the rank strong acid taste, or as some express it, ground flavor, which we naturally associate with the older rhubarb. In place of this is a mild but pronounced fruity flavor, very much resembling strawberries or raspberries, so much so that when this rhubarb is once tasted, no one ever cares to taste the old kind.” Now there's a salesman.
Ronni Kern:
Right. The wonderful thing about this is something called the California Digital Newspaper, whatever it's called, collection at UC Riverside. So you can find all these old California newspapers in there, including something called the Pacific Rural Press, which goes back to 1905(?), where they're talking about his winter, crimson winter rhubarb. And it's coming into great prominence in California. And they were growing hundreds of thousands of acres of rhubarb at a certain time in California. They were shipping it all over the country because it was growing so well here. That's what is so heart-threatening. Now there's almost none, almost none being grown, just backyard gardeners and a couple of commercial, small, small-scale commercial gardeners.
Farmer Fred:
You mentioned David Karp, and he pointed out, I think this was about 10 years ago, so the number may have grown since then. He pointed out back then that there's only four commercial acres left in California of rhubarb, whereas back in the 1920s and 30s, it was over 1,000 acres.
Ronni Kern:
Right. And, you know, I just gave some roots of my Tina's Noble to Dominic Shainer, who's part of Shainer Farms down in Valley Center, the original place where the roots went. And he works with Gray Martin a lot on growing interesting things. And I'm hoping maybe they're commercial growers. I'm hoping maybe they'll get... Them growing again commercially but even at the farmer's market there are maybe two people that sell them and one sells the green stuff which never gets soft and you feel like you're eating celery when you're eating it in a dessert and then this other woman from the valley center was actually growing the really good red stuff but i haven't seen her in years so i don't think there are very many commercial growers. What's one of the things that california fruit growers do we kind of pick up the slack and the same thing with rhubarb. we're going to get rhubarb growing. I must have, I don't know, 25 people growing it now around mostly Southern California.
Farmer Fred:
Do you have any growing it in the Central Valley of California?
Ronni Kern:
I personally don't know. Even though it can handle heat, I would say if you were going to grow it in where you are, I would put it in shade. I would put it either under shade cloth. I actually threw a shade cloth over one of my plants, which is not in shade and was looking kind of, eh. Some of the people that are growing it here said, it's not looking good. I said, put a shade cloth both on it. And it helps. I mean, it makes a huge difference. It seems to be surviving and it's grown well. And some of these, Especially the variety “Success”, the woman that you talked about growing. Success is one that I have. It's one of my favorites because it is the sweetest of the ones I grow. And that comes from Sydney, which is actually much more a climate like we have down here in Southern California.
Farmer Fred:
Sydney, Australia.
Ronni Kern:
Yeah, Sydney, Australia. Whereas the Claytons live in Melbourne, which is further south, which means it gets colder. It definitely gets colder there. I think Colin brought in seeds from Greenland, for Pete's sakes, Who found it in Greenland. I don't need that. I don't have a Greenland climate, but I do have a Sydney climate.
Farmer Fred:
For the sake of those who don't know where Valley Center, California is, where is Valley Center, California?
Ronni Kern:
That's outside San Diego. That's North San Diego County. It's a prime growing area. Most of the avocados come from there. Citrus come from there. It's a wonderful, wonderful growing area. It's just a really good agricultural area.
Farmer Fred:
That's a rather Impolite name then, for an area that is close to the Garden on Eden, calling it Valley Center.
Ronni Kern:
I don't know Where the name came from. It must have been derived from something else. And that's where the last sighting down here of the Burbank roots were.
Farmer Fred:
Well, let's go back to those Burbank roots, because you've been doing updates just about every year on the California Rare Fruit Growers website newsletter for West LA.
Farmer Fred:
You always have something to add every year. And we were talking beforehand that you just discovered that if you go to Santa Rosa, to the Luther Burbank Farm and Gardens, and it's in downtown Santa Rosa, they're back to selling the original roots.
Ronni Kern:
Well, they may be. That's what I was told. And their website seems to indicate that they have located them. Whether you can get them today, I don't know. And I've been tempted to call them and say, are you still selling them? But I haven't done that. But yes, two different chapter chairs have obtained them from the Burbank.
Farmer Fred:
Do we know what varieties are available?
Ronni Kern:
They just call it Burbank Perpetual. That's the name. It's a single variety. Even though he ultimately developed 36 varieties, these are all called just Burbank Perpetual. So I assume that they... Basically have found one variety or they're not distinguishing among them after all this time i sometimes get sounded on the growing fruit forum for saying oh i'm growing glasgow perpetual or i'm growing this one i say well you're not really, because glasgow's been dead 100 years so lord knows what's happened to those seeds over time and it's true. and actually colin when he sent me the seeds the first time he said, “grow them up and if you decide to grow seeds name them whatever you want. these are going to be your california seeds and the ones that do best for you, name them what you want to call them, because they'll be specific to your area.”
Farmer Fred:
Well, that brings up a very good question about what do these seeds develop as? If you buy the Success seed of rhubarb, is it going to come up as Success? Or because it is a hybrid, is it going to be some combination of a lot of different ones?
Ronni Kern:
They are seedlings. They are seedlings, so they are not going to be 100% true. But I think Colin actually has some statistics in his book. I actually glanced at it this morning … But he said basically 50% true, 10% will be even better than they should have been, 10% will be worse than they should have been, and the rest is somewhere in between. So his suggestion is you grow a lot of them and that's why he sends you 100 seeds in a packet for like 15 bucks. He keeps telling me to pull out my Success because it keeps trying to send up seed pods. And you don't want to send up seed pods because then you lose the energy to the roots and then you don't get the rhubarb. But it makes the best rhubarb. So I just cut the seeds off, I don't worry about it, and then have the rhubarb. But I actually have a Tina's Noble that has now formed three different heads. And I'm actually going to separate those out at one point and let one of them go to seed because it is an exceptional plant. And some of the other Tina's I've had have been, they're all been good, but some have not been quite as vigorous as this one. So that's worth perpetuating. I was expecting us just to be sending out, planting out roots and selling roots. But if I can get one of these to go to seed, it seems like pretty easy. Then yeah, we would try that. Back at the Venice Learning Center at the Venice High School, they have a seed bank and they were really big on saving seeds that do well for them there. And they do have some rhubarb seeds of just a sort of generic variety. And I looked at them, then I was big as mine, so I don't care.
Farmer Fred:
But you really do want to grow the colored variety, like the red leaf rhubarb.
Ronni Kern:
The red ones, yeah. Yeah. Well, not the red leaf, the red stalk.
Farmer Fred:
Red petiole, yeah.
Ronni Kern:
There is a red leaf one called Ace of Hearts, but that's really just an ornamental one. You don't need it. It's just a pretty guy.
Farmer Fred:
Yeah, you're right. I should say red stalked.
Ronni Kern:
Red stalk. And yeah, The Glasgow Perpetual, for example, is a green stalked one. It's an excellent, excellent rhubarb. I just happen to like the red ones, when you cook them up, they stay red and you don't have this sort of muddy looking, whatever, compote. You have a nice red compote. You don't have to put cherries or strawberries or raspberries in it. It just is red. I like that. And also, as I said, Success is sweet. The Success is a sweet one, sweeter than any of them. I haven't tasted Crimson Sunrise yet. That's my newest one. But Tinas is a delicious one, but it's not really sweet. You have to add sugar to it. Whereas Success, not so much. You know, it's pretty amazing.
Farmer Fred:
I had mentioned that I came across a master gardener here in Sacramento County, Ruth Ostroff, who is growing Success rhubarb in the Sacramento area. The plant is in full sun. She sent me a picture of it. It is gorgeous. It is large. And it strikes me that rhubarb is a crop that is sort of like asparagus. You want to put it at the back of the garden.
Ronni Kern:
Yeah, it's big. It can be, well, I keep having members say, can I grow this in a pot? And Colin does sell a couple of varieties. I'm actually trying to get one to come up now called Urban Harvest, which is smaller and can be grown in a pot. But these guys, by and large, are big. Crimson sunrise is huge. It needs wind protection. And yeah, so you want them at the back of your plot. Or in my case, I just have it in its own plot all by itself.
Farmer Fred:
And where it's getting, what, afternoon shade? You said it's on the north side of the house. So it's getting afternoon shade.
Ronni Kern:
It gets mostly permanent shade. Oh, okay. It's permanent shade. This time of year, the middle of the day gets sun. But it does fine. You know, the leaves do crinkle up a little bit. I mean, my Tina's Noble is starting to turn a little brown on the leaves. But yeah, it's doing great.
Farmer Fred:
We should mention who Clayton and Tina are. They're the ones that are running French Harvest, the seed company, down in Australia, and they truly are rhubarb heads. And I just ordered a container rhubarb from them, Ruby Red, and the seeds will be arriving soon. If you can find seeds locally, that would be the way to go, because ordering seeds from Australia, while the seeds are cheap, it's like $10 for 100 seeds, but then there's a $25 shipping charge.
Ronni Kern:
This is why this woman in Orange asked me if we could go in together. I bought four packages. And the shipping was finally less than the seeds were.
Ronni Kern:
And also, the other reason why I like to order a lot is because the U.S. Postal Service uses these automated things to cancel the packages, and Tina sends them in an envelope. I've had a lot of seeds arrived crushed. And Tina, she's great about replacing them, but it's a hassle. You wait months to get them, and then they're crushed. And this time, I had my Tina’s Noble and my Crimson Sunrisers just exploded out of the germination beds. And the Urban Harvest and the Success, which has always done well for me, did nothing. And I suspect that they were crushed. It's not anything on the Claytons. They grow great seeds. It should sometimes the vagaries of getting them in from overseas is if you can get them locally, that would be the best. That's why I'm hoping at some point to start growing seeds. And if your friend, the master gardener who's grown success can get seeds off hers, that would be fantastic. Success goes to seed really easily. So she should be able to do that.
Farmer Fred:
As a matter of fact, I have. We try many different varieties here. I mean, that's what gardeners do, too.
So let's get into the nuts and bolts of planting rhubarb seeds. When do you plant them here in California? How do you care for them?
Ronni Kern:
I basically plant them year round. Since I'm getting mine from Australia, they're coming in. This is their winter. So fall is when they're harvesting and putting them up. So any time after I got mine, I ordered mine in June, tend to order mine usually around June, partially because we have our plant sale in December every here so i like to grow them up so we can sell them sell the plants at our plant sale i tend to be a very conservative person in terms of putting things into the ground i want them to be really good strong plants so i let them and make sure they have a lot of leaves i basically get them into one gallon pots before i put them in the ground but i've tried many many different ways of germinating them. it really depends sometimes. i used to float them in water on a heat mat until they formed a little seedling and then then put them in my standard one-third sand, one-third perlite, one-third peat starting mix. i've tried this last batch i tried some of that. i just started another batch in what i happen to have around which was pumice, perlite, and peat, and then just one thing that Colin says is that in nature rhubarb seeds just fall on the ground and germinate, so he says you don't have to bury them. you can just put them on top of your planting mix and then put maybe a little light something on that. i put some perlite on mostly because there's a guy in Eagle Rock who germinates really hard seeds from Brazil, and that's what he does. It's just a very light coating of perlite, very easy for the plants to come up through, doesn't get them overly wet.
Ronni Kern:
Colin keeps saying, do not get them too wet, do not get them cold. They do not like that. As I said, some of these things with Tina’s Noble that have like 90% germination, Success usually had excellent germination, this time not so much. And the Crimson Sunrise also has excellent germination.
Farmer Fred:
I didn't soak my rhubarb seeds, as some instructions might imply. There are several states that are facing the same issue we are as far as growing rhubarb. Down in Texas, they have a great publication about growing rhubarb, especially around the Austin, Texas area. and they talk about the fact that you're better off just growing it as an annual because it just gets too hot there in the summertime. And they have fungal issues too, which can be a detriment to rhubarb because of their higher humidity levels in Texas. Whereas here in California, for the most part, we don't have humidity issues. Of course, it depends where you live.
Ronni Kern:
Right. So this year, the humidity has been insane, but I do plant them up a little high. Some places, they actually plant the rhubarb on mounds. I think even Colin plants his on mounds, so you can walk between the mounds to harvest. Any plant that you're worried about, root rot, whether it's a tropical tree or perhaps a rhubarb, there's no harm in planting it on a mound that sort of protects you from too much water. Mostly, I just planted it. I had a birch tree die. The house was 100 years old. The birch had been here 100 years. It died.
I had the people who took it down ship it and leave it there. So the rhubarb was planted in birch chips and did very well there.
Farmer Fred:
Yeah, Colin points out that they send a nice little piece of literature with every order of rhubarb seeds, and they mention, “rhubarb seed hates to be wet and cold. Rhubarb seeds should not be treated like other seeds. Use high-grade propagation mix. Water once when first sown, then don't water again until the seed starts to germinate in approximately 10 days. Depending upon the air temperature, if the soil becomes really, really dry, then water very lightly if absolutely necessary.” I took a chance and I took some of those seeds. I had a blank spot in a raised bed that is in full sun. I scattered some seed. I put on maybe an eighth of an inch of vermiculite on top of it. And it all germinated within three days.
Ronni Kern:
Wow. And that's the ruby, the ruby red?
Farmer Fred:
No, that was the Success.
Ronni Kern:
The Success. Yeah, because the Ruby Red, we've had a terrible time. I think the smaller the seed, the more likely it is that it's going to get crushed. These are the Success seeds from your friend or from Australia?
Farmer Fred:
These are the ones from Australia. And I grew a second batch of rhubarb seed, the ones from the Master Gardener and the ones that are also from French Harvest. I grew them as suggested in containers, in seed starting mix, in a protected area, and they never sprouted.
Ronni Kern:
that's interesting. So the ones that you planted outside in the sun, in a raised bed, sprouted. My problem is animals eat everything, including my dog. I tend not to start things in the ground because they just disappear.
Farmer Fred:
I mentioned this publication out of Texas, How to Grow Rhubarb Texas Style, and they talk about it as growing it as a winter annual. And so I would think that planting the seeds for that would be similar to what it would be in Texas throughout most of California. And that would be to start those rhubarb seeds in August or September.
Ronni Kern:
Well, again, if you're going to grow it as an annual, you can. I mean, I started this batch. The ones in the garden, I've got Crimson Sunrise and a Success of new ones. I planted the seeds in June of 2023. and then I think in July, my granddaughter was here and we up-potted them out of the little seed things to bigger pots. And then I must have put them in the ground in September. And they're huge now. They're absolutely huge. I tend not to harvest my first year because I want good roots. I want these things to be around. But I could have harvested them if I wanted them as an annual crop. Actually, in all honesty, you can grow them anytime in California. We're not going to get the the deep winter so it's not going to go dormant and if you're growing them especially if you're starting them inside you're not going to get the killing heat when they're just little tiny seedlings actually that's the problem for me if you started them now and put them out in time for the Santa Ana’s (heavy winds) down here. Do you get santa anna's up there?
Farmer Fred:
No, we have delta breezes.
Ronni Kern:
Yeah my brother lived in Sacramento for decades and you've got of course you've got uc davis. you've got the mothership of growing fruit. you could probably follow the Texas thing and start them in the fall. Because of wanting to be able to sell them in December, I start them usually around June, July. And by December, they're definitely big. One of my friends, Charles, actually starts his earlier and then they get too big by December. They're actually, they've outgrown their pots. I don't like to sell plants that have outgrown their pots.
Farmer Fred:
Talk about how you harvest the leaves because I understand you don't cut it, you yank it.
Ronni Kern:
Yank it. And this is a problem because I'm not a young kitty cat anymore. And it requires a certain amount of arm strength because you pull it and twist it at the same time. And some of these plants, if they're not really well rooted, you will pull up the whole plant. I have done that with Tina’s Noble a couple of times. And that's why I give plants away because I accidentally pull them out. But you technically don't want to cut them. But Colin has said, if you have to, you can. You know, it's not going to kill the plant. Again, the big issue if you cut them is the risk of rot. If you left a stub and it rots, then it can affect the plant. But at least down here, even where you are, it's so dry. We don't really have the same issues with rot that other places have. But the correct way is to pull it and twist it at the same time. Usually, there's one way to twist it, and you learn faster because it's different. Each stalk, whether you want to twist right or left, and that sort of signals the roots to grow some more. If you cut it, it doesn't get that same signal to grow some more stalks. So, theoretically, you want to pull it and twist it. I did it as a kid. I just can't do it so well anymore.
Farmer Fred:
Did you eat the leaves as a child?
Ronni Kern:
No, no. I was not dumb. I always have people say, oh, is that charred? Can I eat the leaves? No. The leaves are poisonous. The leaves of rhubarb is full of oxalic acid, great rust remover if you have a rust, but you do not want to eat it. When I pull the stalks up, I just break the leaves off and drop them right down back in the garden for mulch. Some people say you have to cut down two, three inches from the leaves.
Ronni Kern:
I don't worry about that.
Farmer Fred:
So what you're preparing in the kitchen then is that petiole, the center part of the leaf, the spine of the leaf.
Ronni Kern:
I just shy away from any mention of eating any part of the leaf because people, I don't want anybody to die.
Farmer Fred:
So basically, you rip off the green part and eat the middle.
Ronni Kern:
Right. Absolutely right.
Farmer Fred:
There. Okay.
Ronni Kern:
And according to Colin, if you catch it in time, when the thing is starting to put up a seed pod, it'll actually have this little lumpy looking thing. He says, you can actually eat that too. Oh, okay. But I never find it in time. But by the time I see it, it's already got flowers. It's like, okay, I got to get this out of here before they sap my root strength.
Farmer Fred:
And if you want a recipe for rhubarb, just ask anybody from the Midwest or back East.
Ronni Kern:
Right. Well, I mean, we have a couple on our website, but there's East Coast. It was always strawberry rhubarb pie. I'm sure that's the Midwest too, because those are the two fruits that ripened in spring, and they were both red. And especially if you had green rhubarb, you wanted that nice red strawberry to make it look not quite so disgusting. My husband actually prefers raspberry rhubarb cobbler. As I said, Charles prefers to roast it, eat it as a vegetable. And most of us who are obsessive are from either the East Coast or the Midwest. And there's a couple of guys from Connecticut who drove all the way up here to get plants for me. I think they've now put in a big order with Colin themselves because they just really wanted rhubarb. And Steve's always sending me recipes for everything that he finds, beverages and desserts and main courses.
Farmer Fred:
I saw one for snacks for kids where you take that center stem and you chop it into little pieces and you cover it in sugar and serve those little pieces as candy.
Ronni Kern:
Well, when I was a kid, that's what I did. I’d steal the rhubarb from this neighbor. I was not a good kid. And we'd run to somebody's steps and with a lap holding a napkin full of sugar in our laps, we would just dip the rhubarb stem in the sugar and eat it. And that's that's that was our happiness and inexpensive treat.
Well, the sugar was cheap back then. Not so much now.
Farmer Fred:
And there is a very short harvest season, isn't there?
Ronni Kern:
Well, no, see, that's the thing. There's a short harvest season if you are in Rhode Island, because it's a spring crop. But here, no, I've been harvesting. I can't even remember when I first started harvesting this year. Basically, it starts November, December. I'm still harvesting. In fact, if I hadn't just harvested 200 bananas, I'd be harvesting now. But right now we're trying to eat our way through the bananas. I can't tell what's a rhubarb.
Farmer Fred:
We should point out we're talking in August. You're talking eight, nine months you've been harvesting from the same plant.
Ronni Kern:
And I think, I think that I probably will be able to... I mean, I have some big stems out there. I'll probably be able to harvest right into September. And then I'll probably stop September, October. November is when it starts to cool down and they'll start to... That's probably when I'll start dividing them. I think I got to talk to Colin about when I should do that. And yeah, so it's basically a nine-month... I mean, I wouldn't call it entirely perpetual. Though I suspect if I had a lot of different varieties under shade, I probably could stretch it out. Because Success and Tina's Noble tend to be strong at different times of year. Crimson Harvest, Sunrise, I don't quite know because it's new to me, but it's looking huge and very healthy. I'm willing to see what it's going to do for me.
Farmer Fred:
Is all that work worth it?
Ronni Kern:
It's not a lot of work. I mean, the starting of the seeds is a hassle just because I'm not a seed person. I'm not very good with little tiny things. I like to be able to dig in big holes. Once you put them in the ground, it's sort of easy to take care of. They don't have bugs. We don't have the diseases. I guess people talk about the fungus. We don't have that. You give them a big, good snack at the beginning of every growing season, some people use manure, I don't use animal products, but I use fish bones, maybe. Give them a good snack at the beginning of the growing season. That's it. And then you harvest them and you eat them. Or you cook them and eat them, depending on what you want to do.
Farmer Fred:
So one warning that I've seen in several places is don't overwater them.
Ronni Kern:
Yeah, well, you don't want them to rot. You want to water them enough that they don't look wilty. But I just have them on the same drip system as the rest of my yard. I water them the same as I water my avocado trees and my lemon trees and my banana trees. Well, my bananas are also on gray water, but everything just basically gets the same amount of water because in California, at least, I don't know where you are, but down here, we can only water twice a week. It's actually, of all the plants I grow, it's probably the least high maintenance because once you get the seeds up and in the ground, they do it themselves.
You just have to keep an eye out for the seeds. You don't want them to go to seed. That's it.
Farmer Fred:
So the answer to the question, can you grow rhubarb in California? Ronni Kern would give you a resounding yes, you can.
Ronni Kern:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Do not hesitate. Just give them some shade. That's the only thing I would say.
Farmer Fred:
Ronni Kern is with the West Los Angeles California Rare Fruit Growers Association. We'll have links in the notes today about where you can read her literature. And it's very enlightening. So if you have a relative from back east and or you're from back east and you fondly want some rhubarb, well, get to it and start growing it. Ronni Kern, thank you so much for all this great information.
Ronni Kern:
Well, thank you, Fred, for finding me. I have no idea how you did it, but you did your research. That's for sure.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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Dealing with Fruit Tree Varmints
13 Aug· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
In today’s newsletter podcast, fruit tree expert Ed Laivo of Ed Able Solutions gives us tips for dealing with varmints that get to your tree fruit before you’ve had a chance to sample it. And, he has tips for growing fruit trees in containers. I mentioned in the podcast that we would have a video link to Ed’s Harvest Day 2024 presentation at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center on August 3, which was about growing fruit trees in containers. That video is not yet available; but here, enjoy Ed talking about that topic on his YouTube page.
In the typed remarks below, we get into another way to thwart the crawling, walking, hopping, flying pests that get into your fruit trees, and that is to skirt prune those trees that have low hanging branches, that reach the ground.
For those of you who were hoping for stories of the high school girls at U.S. Grant High School in Van Nuys who would surreptitiously raise the hem of their mandatory skirts above the knee near the end of lunch period because the vice principal would leave the premises after one lap through the cafeteria area, sorry. And yes, it was a public school. And yes, skirts were mandatory for the female students. Except for one school day a year (Senior Day) in June, when the senior girls got to wear slacks (but not blue jeans!). How long ago was that? An up and coming band was the entertainment in the high school auditorium that Senior day, Three Dog Night.
When to Prune, When Not to Prune, Citrus Trees
If your citrus trees – the oranges, lemons, limes, mandarins, grapefruit, and more – are looking a bit overgrown and bushy, pruning can help reinvigorate them to produce more fruit. But don’t prune them now.
Cindy Fake is the Horticulture and Small Farms Advisor for the University of California Ag and Natural Resources in Placer County, who wrote their “Pruning Citrus” webpage. She agrees there are benefits to pruning citrus trees, but the timing is important.
“Citrus trees are evergreen trees, generally requiring less pruning than deciduous trees. However, they do need to be pruned regularly for optimal fruit quality and productivity. Pruning can improve fruit quality through increasing light in the canopy. In some cases, pruning out water sprouts (vertical shoots) may improve yields. Reducing tree height facilitates harvesting as well as risk of injury from ladders.”
However, Fake adds: “Pruning citrus trees is best accomplished in spring and early summer, after it sets flowers and then again when the small fruit appears.”
Retired citrus grower Lance Walheim, author of the book “Citrus”, seconds that motion. “Late summer and early fall citrus pruning is discouraged. Late pruning often stimulates vigorous tender growth, which doesn't have enough time to harden off before cold weather, increasing chances of frost damage. Pruning in late summer, especially here, where triple digit temperatures are common, can cause citrus bark and fruit to become exposed to too much intense sunlight. Citrus bark is highly sensitive to sunburn. The bark can be killed, which can girdle the tree, especially if the tree is in a south or west exposure. Whenever bark is newly exposed to intense sunlight, paint the exposed area with a whitewash, made of 50% water and 50% interior white latex paint.”
However, there are a few minor citrus pruning chores that can be done anytime of the year: removing the suckers that begin below the bud union just above ground level; and skirt pruning the citrus tree. “Skirt pruning” is exactly what it sounds like, removing any branches that reach the ground.
“Skirt pruning facilitates weeding, mulch laying, and other cultural practices, as well as reducing risk of soil borne pathogens affecting the fruit,” explains Fake. “The pruning may also reduce insect and disease pest problems.”
And, as Laivo points out in the podcast, netting the tree can be a somewhat effective pest deterrent, especially if you drape the netting completely over the tree to the ground, and tie it around the trunk of the tree. Try doing that with a non-skirted tree!
Fake says to keep an eye out for low-lying branches on mandarin trees, especially. “Satsuma mandarins tend to have pendulous branches that hang to the ground. These are called skirt branches, and they can impede weeding, fertilizer, and compost application, as well as provide pathways for ant populations to use the trees. With heavy fruit loads, these branches can bend, and fruit may touch the ground. Fruit may then be contaminated by soil borne pathogens. These pathogens may be plant disease-causing such as Brown rot, or potential food safety risks.”
The Department of Agriculture and Food in Western Australia (actually, it’s the Department of Primary Industries and Regional Development) offers these reasons for commercial growers of citrus to skirt prune their citrus trees (warning: their dates are for the Southern Hemisphere, where summer there is winter here and winter there is summer here):
Skirting (skirt pruning)
Skirting is the removal of branches and limbs which hang down to the ground. It should be done as soon after harvest as possible.
Skirting of Valencias and summer navels is more difficult as the trees are carrying two crops. Some crop loss is inevitable whenever late varieties are skirted. Skirting in October or November after fruit set is probably the best option.
Mature trees should be skirted to a height of at least 75cm (29 inches). This allows for branches dropping lower when fruit develops. Machine skirting is quick and easy (I didn’t see any tree skirting machines on Amazon, but they did have a parking lot striping machine!).
Skirting provides the following advantages:
* better air movement under the trees
* easy application of below-tree herbicides and fertilizers
* reduced access into the tree for insects and pests such as Fuller’s rose weevil and snails
* clear throw of irrigation water from mini-sprinklers and ease of checking on the operation of mini-sprinklers and drippers
* no splashing of soil-borne fungi into the canopy from rain or irrigation
* better access when harvesting
* prevents lower set fruit from hanging in the dirt
* required practice as part of the market access protocol for some export markets.
Dress for the Occasion
As a general rule, Citrus trees should be skirted up about 18 to 24 inches above the ground every couple of years.
And before you tackle any pruning chores with citrus, Walheim says to dress for the occasion.
“Before you prune citrus, take measures to protect yourself from the sharp thorns, warns Walheim. “Wear thick gloves, a long-sleeved shirt (or thorn-resistant sleeves) and protective glasses. Wear a hard hat, too.”
Young citrus trees are especially prone to gangly growth says Walheim. “These younger citrus trees produce highly vigorous shoots, the water sprouts, that give the tree and unkempt, out of balance appearance. These shoots can be cut back to maintain a more uniform shape. Also, remove suckers that originate from below the graft union, known as the suckers. They are nonproductive and only sap strength from the tree.”
During prime citrus pruning time – late winter and early spring – that’s the best time to control the height of your citrus trees.
“The most vigorous types of citrus trees, especially lemons, are often trimmed or cut back 20 to 30 percent every year or two,” says Walheim. “Keeping the centers of citrus trees open by selectively thinning branches (the total removal of the branch) can improve their health. Remove branches that crisscross or crowd one another; prune out any dead limbs. By allowing sunlight to reach the center of the tree, the inner portions remain productive.”
Skirt pruning is also a good idea for deciduous fruit trees, as well, Removing low hanging branches as well as any rootstock suckers from peach, nectarine, pear, apple, cherry and more fruit tree varieties makes it a heck of a lot easier for monitoring your irrigation system, applying fertilizer, weeding, cleaning up fallen fruit, and spreading mulch.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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Fruit Tree Pruning Steps
6 Aug· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
Today’s Newsletter Podcast features Ann Ralph, author of the book, “Grow a Little Fruit Tree”.
Fruit Tree Pruning, Step by Step
Last Friday’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, Episode 351 - “Honey I Shrunk the Fruit Trees” also dealt with the benefits of keeping the height of fruit trees to no taller than you can reach to the top of the tree to pick fruit. Because, who wants to fall off a ladder?
UC Cooperative Extension Communications Specialist - and Consulting Arborist - Kevin Marini walked us through the steps of keeping your fruit trees healthy, and at a reasonable height (listen to the episode for his tree reduction tips).
Among our topics:
• Maintaining the height of fruit trees at a manageable level allows for easier fruit harvesting and reduces the risk of broken branches.
• Thinning fruit trees is necessary to remove crowded fruit and allow the tree to breathe, resulting in bigger and juicier fruit.
• Bringing down the height of a fruit tree can be done gradually over a few years to avoid stressing the tree.
• Using the right pruning cuts, such as reduction cuts and thinning cuts, helps maintain the structure of the tree and promotes better fruit production.
• Cutting newly planted fruit trees at the knees stimulates the growth of lower branches and makes fruit more accessible.
• Rootstock selection is important for controlling the height and spread of fruit trees.
• Thinning cuts are essential for improving air circulation within the tree and ensuring fruit production in lower areas of the branches. Pruning suckers and water sprouts is essential to maintain the structure of fruit trees.
• Removing branches that grow towards the center of the tree helps prevent overcrowding and disease.
• Cutting dead, dying, and diseased branches is important to maintain the overall health of the tree.
• Proper pruning cuts, including the three-cut method for larger branches, help prevent damage and decay.
• Using sharp pruning tools and cleaning them regularly improves the efficiency and effectiveness of pruning.
You can listen to our complete conversation here.
And one more pruning term, according to the U. Of Florida: Reduction Cut
A reduction cut (also referred to as a drop-crotch cut) shortens a branch by removing a stem back to a lateral branch that is large enough to resist extensive disfunction and decay behind the cut. This is generally interpreted as cutting back to a lateral branch that is at least one-third the diameter of the cut stem. Sprouts commonly follow a reduction cut. In most cases these should not be removed because they help the retained portion of the branch retard decay. When the branch that remains is less than about one-third the diameter of the cut stem, the cut is considered a heading cut. Heading cuts are not considered appropriate in most instances in the landscape. Heading cuts are sometimes necessary when attempting to restore trees following storm damage.
Kevin Marini’s Steps for Pruning Your Fruit Trees For Better Health
From the Ep. 351 podcast transcript:
Farmer Fred
Kevin, you mentioned there are some steps, like four or five steps, when it comes to reducing the height of a fruit tree?
Kevin Marini 35:28
Yeah, well, let's start with one that maybe doesn't reduce the height, but it's the easiest step. And everyone could do this any time of year. And they don't even have to be very careful about where they make the cut. And that is the suckers.
Because fruit trees are grafted on to a root stock, you get suckers that grow up from the ground from the root stock. Believe it or not, this can be a big problem. Because if you let those suckers continue to grow, they can eventually convince you that they're part of your fruit tree until you actually see this weird looking fruit on them. And you realize, Wait, what's that all about? Prune out those suckers. Step number one, go out to your fruit tree anytime during the year. If they're shooting from the ground, obviously, from the root stock below the graft union, cut them out, do not let them take over your tree. So that's easy. Step number one.
Farmer Fred 36:21
Yeah, let's define that. First. For people who are trying to find the bud union, if a tree was planted properly, that's going to be like a little lump or a little bump that should be just a few inches above the surface of the soil. And so anything that is emanating from below that point, can be removed completely and safely.
Kevin Marini 36:39
Yes, I'm actually glad you drilled down on that a little bit, because one thing that I have encountered quite a bit is that people bury the graft union. So they buy their fruit tree in a container. And the graft union is above the soil line when they bring it home. But when they pop it out of the container and put it into the ground, many times they'd bury it too deep. And if that graft union is subsurface, if it's underneath the ground, it can absolutely quickly rot. And then you can lose your fruit tree in a nice stiff wind down the road. That's super important, The graft has to be above ground. It has to be daylighted. You really have to take care of that, right? Ideally, you don't want it facing west, where the afternoon sun is hammering it, you kind of want it facing the other way. It's not a deal breaker, if you didn't do that. Don't worry, folks. But having that graft union up above ground and then controlling any sucker growth from below that coming from the ground, from the rootstock, or just beneath the graft on the stem, is important.
Farmer Fred 37:44
Yep, there are other suckers - I don't know if this is unique to citrus or not - they're called water sprouts, that can just spring up almost anywhere in the tree. But the thing with them is they're growing straight up. And they're easy to spot and easy to remove.
Kevin Marini 37:59
So that is I would say your step number two. So you start with your suckers down below, get rid of all those, get them out of the way. Some of them can be quite thorny, and vicious as well, especially on citrus. And so then you're looking for these other type of suckers called water sprouts. They generally occur as vigorous vertical shoots on lateral branches. So branches that are going out relatively in a horizontal fashion, they will have these sprouts that vertically shoot up to the sky. On certain plums and cherries, sometimes these water sprouts can be seven, eight feet in length. I mean, they can completely destroy this beautiful structure that you're trying to work on with this fruit tree. Identifying those water sprouts and getting them out of there is super important. You know, some people will use water sprouts to rejuvenate fruit trees. That would be getting really technical here. We're not going to go into that, but I just want to point out that they could have a use in certain circumstances. But overwhelmingly in our backyard orchard, you see a waterspout, it should be taken out.
So, let's talk about number three. Okay, so you've got your suckers, got your waterspouts right. So now you're going to start actually looking for some problem children. Okay, what are the problem children? Well, those shoots that are going into the middle of the tree that you spoke about earlier, are probably I call them problem children. By themselves. They're just little shoots the branches and you might not think anything of them. But for me, trying to maintain a certain structure to the fruit tree, those can really muck it up very quickly. They really become cumbersome to deal with, if you really let them grow in there, you really have to get in there and find their origin and cut them out and yank them out. And it can be a little troubling. So I say, stay on top of this, those branches that are crossing, rubbing, and then going from branches into the middle of the fruit tree, get those out of there. They are pretty easy to identify and remove. Now, of course, there's also I mentioned the crossing, rubbing, those aren't necessarily only branches that are going towards the middle of the fruit tree, those are branches that are just growing too close together. And if they're touching already, with a fruit load, it's even going to be worse. And they can create wounds, which then of course lead to potential disease. So you don't want that.
And then of course, the next step is those dead, dying, diseased branches. If you know a branch is dead, cut it out of there, don't let it be a host for other bacteria or fungi that could reinfect the live tissue somewhere on the planet from the tree. If it's dying, if you see something dying back, sometimes the best thing to do is to prune that puppy out quickly, potentially stopping the infection in its tracks. Right? Those four or five quick tips, if everyone just did those, the fruit trees would be in good shape. For the most part, you still would probably have to do what we talked about in the beginning, which is reduction cuts, and a mix of dormant and summer pruning to keep that height down. But those easy steps - like walk out to the tree - and take out suckers, water sprouts, branches going towards the center, dead, dying, diseased, crossing, rubbing. Five. So there it is, you do those five things, you are doing way more than most people do.
A Few Q&A’s about fruit tree pruning:
• How far back should I prune my deciduous fruit trees?
The latest trend for backyard orchardists: keep your fruit trees no taller than you can reach. All the fruit above your extended arms, after all, is for the birds. For fruit trees five years old and less, this is fairly easy to do. For older, taller established fruit trees, remove one-third of the total tree height each year until the desired height (under ten feet) is achieved.
• How much of a branch should I cut?
Never cut back a healthy branch of any tree by more than one-third its entire length. Don't make a "flush cut" (removing a branch right next to the stem). Leave the nub or "branch collar" that protrudes out less than an inch from the stem. That area contains the chemicals necessary for the tree wound to heal.
If in doubt what to cut, especially when the branches are out of easy reach, don't hesitate to call in a tree pruning professional.
• How Do I Prune a Thick Branch?
Don't try to get rid of any branch thicker than an inch with just a single pass of the saw; you could end up with a fallen branch that may have removed more than you had anticipated, such as a strip of the main stem. When tackling the big branches, use the three-cut method with a pruning saw:
•Cut number one: make a cut halfway through the underside of the branch to be removed, about one foot out from the collar where the branch attaches to the main stem.
•Cut number two: Saw through the top of the branch, about two inches farther out from cut number one. The branch should give way about half way through this cut, with the undercut portion preventing any damage to the tree along the stem.
•Cut number three is the clean up cut, sawing through the remaining stub of the branch you want to remove. Make this cut close to the collar (the enlarged portion encircling the branch that attaches to the main stem) but do not make the cut flush with the stem; damage to the vascular system (a tree's pipeline for nutrients) may result.
How to Sharpen Hand Pruners
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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The Soil Texture Triangle
30 Jul· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
The newsletter podcast (above) is an excerpt from last Friday’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, #350, “New Home? First Garden Tips”. America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor(℠), Debbie Flower and myself, help out a very rhythmic listener figure out how to prep a garden space at her new home. And one of the first steps to take is to do a home analysis of the soil, referred to as the “Soil Texture Triangle Test”.
Although it might look like something designed by a Freemason on Acid, the Soil Texture Triangle is quite ingenious in its design, as well as the ability to give you an insight into many of the qualities of the soil you are attempting to garden in.
But before we get into the “why” and the “how” of the Soil Texture Triangle, here’s what you may have missed if you didn't listen to Episode 350 of the podcast in its entirety:
• Get a soil test done to determine the texture of your soil and its nutrient levels.
• Plan your garden carefully, considering the spacing of plants and the eventual growth of trees.
• Hydro-zone your vegetables in raised beds to meet their specific watering needs.
• Limiting factors if using raised beds on concrete for gardening in partial sun spaces.
The Soil Texture Triangle Test: Why do it?
Ahhh, the things you will learn about your soil when you figure out if you have sandy loam, silty loam, clay loam, sandy clay (great name for a Top 40 DJ), something in between, or - Heaven forfend - all sand or all clay.
Christine Anne Clark is a soil health specialist with the Crops and Soils Division of the Extension Service of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. She works with farmers, researchers and agricultural industry experts, to help the farmers in Northeast Wisconsin better understand their soils. In this University of Wisconsin publication - “The important role of soil texture on water” - she points out the obviously most important part of understanding the Soil Texture Triangle right there in the title. Know your soil, and you’ll know where the water is going (or not going) in your crops:
“It is not nitrogen, but water, that is the most limiting factor in crop production. Soil texture, structure, percent organic matter (OM) and management practices also influence the amount water and nutrients a soil can retain for crop use. You can better understand your farmland’s strengths and weaknesses by digging deeper into the physical characteristics of your soil and where different soil types are located on your farm.
Soil texture refers to the feel of soil. Soils are made up of different amounts of sand, silt, and clay. There are 12 soil textural classes according to the USDA classification system. Each soil texture has varying responses to water, affecting major crops like corn, soybeans, wheat, and alfalfa differently. Here’s a general overview:
1. Sand: Sandy soils have the largest particle size, which allows water to drain quickly. As a result, sandy soils tend to dry out faster. Sandy soils have low water and nutrient-holding capacity and struggle to retain sufficient amounts for crops. Shallow-rooted crops are more susceptible to drought stress in sandy soils, as they may experience water deficits that hinder their growth and yield.
2. Silt: Silty soils have medium-sized particles, providing better water retention than sandy soils. They have moderate water-holding capacity and drainage characteristics. During drought, silty soils can retain moisture for longer periods compared to sandy soils. Silty soils have more plant-available water capacity than clayey soils.
3. Clay: Clay soils have lots of small fine particles with many inner layers creating lots of surface areas that hold water and nutrients tightly. They have higher water and nutrient holding capacity but lower drainage, resulting in slower water movement and potential waterlogging. Also, they have lower plant available water capacity than silty soils because clays hold water tightly as they dry. During drought, clay soils can retain moisture relatively well, which benefits crops like corn, soybeans, and wheat. However, excessive water retention in clay soils can also lead to root oxygen deprivation and negatively impact crop growth in wet years. Any crop with a deeper root system may perform better in clay soils during drought as it can access the stored water.
Water infiltration speed and plant water availability are dependent on soil texture. In coarse sandy soils the bigger pore spaces increase the rate of water movement and have higher infiltration rates than fine textured soils. Coarse soils can “soak” up a drenching rain or recharge quickly but is unable to hold as much water as finer textured soils. A coarse sand infiltrates very fast, up to 10 inches per hour, while a clay is the slowest can be less than 0.05 inches per hour. However, sandy soils have a low water holding capacity compared to loamy or clayey soils. On the opposite end, soils with very high clay contents hold water tightly and provide less water storage for plants than loamy soils. The table below illustrates the water that can be absorbed by soil that is available to plants, which varies with soil texture.
Organic matter increases water retention
Clark continues:
Typical Wisconsin soils have 1.5- 4% organic matter. Peat or muck soils can be over 20%. The organic portion of soil is important, it improves soil properties that help plants grow by promoting structure, pore space, and a home and source of food for soil life. Yet anytime you till and mix oxygen into the soil, organic matter is burned off a bit. Over time this can decrease the amount of organic matter in soil. Increasing soil organic matter can take 5 to 8 years depending on soil type, climate, and management.
Organic matter has a natural attraction to water. Organic matter acts as a sponge in the soil, capable of holding and storing water. It has a high water-holding capacity due to its porous structure and ability to absorb and retain moisture, plus it helps aggregation and pore space where water can be stored. Here are some general examples of the impact of organic matter on soil water:
* For each 1 % increase in soil organic matter helps soil hold 20,000 gallons more water per acre.
* An ideal soil with 4-5% organic matter can soak up a 4-6” rain event.
* A 1994 study by Hudson showed that a silt loam soil with 4% organic matter holds more than twice the water of a silt loam with 1% organic matter.
Understanding the role of soil texture in water-holding capacity, and that organic matter significantly improves water-holding capacity can help us understand the strengths and weaknesses of a field during rainfall, irrigation, and during flood or drought conditions. Wisconsin has a wide range of soil textures. The challenge in managing sandy soils is to improve water retention or water holding capacity. In fine texture soils, however, the challenge can be to remove excess water depending on drainage conditions. Both goals can mean increased profit. Farmers cannot change the soil texture that mother nature has provided them. Although increasing organic matter content takes time, practices such as adding compost or manure, using cover crops, and practicing organic farming methods can enhance the soil’s ability to retain water and support healthy soil and healthy plant growth.”
So, there you go. Even if you have achieved “Soil Nirvana” (see below), you would still need to regularly add compost, cover crops, mulch, and practice no-till gardening to keep the area thriving with microbial activity and a consistent supply of water that’s available for your plants.
Marin County (CA) Master Gardener Nanette Londeree puts it succinctly in the UCANR Publication, “Garden Good Guys - Soil”:
“An ideal soil would be made up of 45% minerals (sand, clay, silt), 5 % organic (plant and animal) material, 25% air and 25% water. The mineral portion would be loam (20 – 30% clay, 30 – 50% silt and 30 – 50% sand). It would be crumbly, relatively dark in color, smell earthy and rich, teem with microorganisms and earthworms, have plenty of nutrients and a pH between 6.5 and 7.5. This soil would be described as having good tilth. Tilth is to soil what health is to people. If you have this kind of soil now, you don’t need to read any further.”
And now you know what “tilth” is! Memorize that. It might be on the Final. Especially if St. Peter is a gardener.
So, How Do You Shake it Up, Shake it Up, Shake it Up, Shake it Up?
For that, we turn to Clemson University’s College of Agriculture, Forestry and Life Sciences’ horticulture and natural resources agent, Andrew “Drew” Jeffers. This is from the aptly named publication, “The Jar Test.”
Materials:
* Straight-edged, clear jar
* Permanent marker
* Ruler
* Watch or stopwatch
* Mesh sieve or old colander
Procedure:
1) Using a mesh sieve or old colander, sift the soil to remove any debris, rocks, and large organic matter (leaves, sticks, roots, etc.).
2) Fill the jar ⅓ full of the soil to be tested
3) Fill the remainder of the jar with clean water, but leave some space at the top. (At this point, I am sure Debbie Flower is mumbling at her phone: “And add a drop of dish soap!”)
4) Cap the jar and shake vigorously (“For 10 minutes!”, yells Debbie) until the soil turns into a uniform slurry.
5) Set on a level surface and time for one minute. (“Not two minutes?” questions Debbie)
6) Place a mark on the outside of the jar, showing the coarse sand layer settled at the bottom of the jar.
7) Leave the jar in a level spot for 2 hours. (“Finally! Something I agree with!”, says Debbie)
8) Mark the top of the next settled layer with the permanent marker. This is the silt layer.
9) Leave the jar on a level spot for 48 hours. (“I concur!”, says Debbie)
10) Mark the top of the next settled layer with the permanent marker. This clay layer has settled on top of the silt layer.
11) Using a ruler, measure and record the height of each layer and the total height of all three layers. Use the soil texture analysis worksheet below to record the results.
12) Use the soil texture triangle to estimate the soil type for the site.
a) The clay percentages are listed on the triangle’s left side. Lines corresponding to clay percentages extend from the percentages reading left to right (see red line).
b) The silt percentage is on the right side, with lines extending downwardly, diagonally from right to left (see green line).
c) The sand percentage is on the bottom side, with lines extending upwardly, diagonally from right to left (see blue line).
13) Track the lines with the percentages measured and find the spot on the triangle where all three lines intersect. The region where these lines intersect indicates the soil type present. The example shown represents a loam soil texture.
Adding organic matter to clay and sandy soil can help with:
* Nutrient holding capacity
* Improved drainage
* Reducing compaction
Soil Texture Analysis “The Jar Test” Worksheet
Measurements
Height of sand layer ________inches / cm
Height of silt layer ________inches / cm
Height of clay layer ________inches / cm
TOTAL HEIGHT OF LAYERS ________inches / cm
% SAND=(sand height)/(total height) x 100 =___________ % SAND
% SILT=(silt height)/(total height) x 100 =____________ % SILT
% CLAY=(clay height)/(total height) x 100 =____________ % SILT
Thanks for reading Beyond The Garden Basics Newsletter. Subscribe for free to receive new posts. Pledge Your Support, thank you!
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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Why Are the Blackberries Turning White?
23 Jul· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
If you’re wondering about blackberry discoloration this summer, you won’t find that information in the podcast (above). What you will find for your ears: great information about superior blackberry varieties to grow, along with tips for pruning and trellising blackberries.
As to why you might start seeing some discoloration in your blackberry patch right now might be due to the weather.
But before we shine a light on that, here’s what you may have missed in last Friday’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, Ep. 349: “Stressed? Your Garden Can Help.” And haven’t we all seen an increase in the stress levels this past couple of weeks. One easy way to soothe the worried mind: single malt Scotch Take a whiff of the garden. Really!
America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, and myself sniff out the answers that may be in your own yard.
• Gardening and spending time in nature can help reduce stress and anxiety.
• Forest bathing, or enjoying a slow walk or sit in a natural environment, can have calming effects.
• Having a garden or indoor plants can provide stress relief and improve mental well-being.
• Aromatic plants, such as jasmine, lavender, and mint, can have a soothing effect on the mind and body.
Why Are the Blackberries Turning White?
From the garden e-mail bag, Teri asks: "What is wrong with my blackberries?"
Dewey & Ann write: "What is causing this problem with my Chester blackberries? This is on the majority of them. I had it last year too. I checked with the local Hmong community farmers, and they also had it and said it was the 111 degrees we had in Oroville. We are at 2500 feet and 10 degrees cooler, but it wasn’t this hot last year. My Black Satin Blackberries were forming and doing well and I thought the problem was only with the Chester. Well, pretty soon I see it on them also. Am I missing something in our soil? It’s not on every one of them. It’s a dried seed eventually, but goes from a pink to beige and then worse if you don’t pick them. I would like to get to bottom of this. Can you help me?"Your local Hmong are wise horticulturists. The recent week of very sunny 100+ temperatures, along with several of triple digit scorchers in the first week of July, could very well be the culprit.Usually when we think of heat stressed plants, the cool season ones that tend to croak when it gets hot come to mind, such as lettuce plants in early summer or snow pea vines by Memorial Day weekend.Even warm season vegetables that like sunlight, especially tomatoes, can be adversely effected by too much high intensity sun. Abiotic disorders such as cracking, solar yellowing or green shoulders are common this time of year on young tomato crops.
One remedy for those tomatoes: don't prune off any of the leaf canopy of tomato plants; or, cover with a lightweight row cover to provide some more shade.
And now, you can add blackberries to the list of crops that develop problems when it gets too sunny, too hot, dry and windy, especially because of extended heatwaves. The problem is known as White Drupelet Disorder (WDD).
According to the UC Integrated Pest Management Guidelines for Caneberries:"White drupelet is a tan-to-white discoloration of one to many drupelets on the fruit. Most often, white drupelets will appear when there has been an abrupt increase in temperature accompanied by a drop in humidity; it is especially pronounced when there is wind. In the Monterey Bay area, white drupelet typically occurs when temperatures that are fairly steady around 70 degrees suddenly go above 90 degrees, and there is an absence of fog.While white drupelets may seem to be directly caused by weather, they are actually caused by ultra-violet (UV) radiation. Weather conditions modulate this by the effect they have on penetration of UV radiation into the fruit. Cool, humid air scatters and absorbs UV radiation, while hot dry air has the opposite effect and allows more direct UV rays to reach the fruit. The movement of humidity away from the canopy by wind only heightens the effect of hot dry air. Additionally, as humidity is moved away from the plant canopy, more UV rays penetrate the canopy and damage fruit that may not even have been exposed to the sun. Fruit inside of the canopy is not acclimatized to UV radiation and is subsequently more susceptible when it reaches them.Some growers of caneberries in the Willamette Valley of Oregon, where rapid changes from a normally mild climate to temperatures up to and above 100 degrees occur through the summer, use overhead irrigation to minimize fruit loss to white drupelet. This is not merely to mist the fruit; instead, large amounts of water are applied to thoroughly wet the canopy and maintain cool temperatures and high canopy humidity for as long as possible. Sprinkling is not done too late in the evening to allow fruit to dry before nightfall.While some varieties, such as Apache blackberry, Kiowa blackberry, and Caroline red raspberry tend to get white drupelets more frequently than others, almost all caneberry varieties are susceptible to white drupelet to some degree."
From North Carolina State University:
White drupelet disorder (WDD) is a discoloration of some of the drueplets on developing blackberry fruit. The drupes appear as tan to white and can be concentrated in patches or randomly distributed on the fruit. The causes of WDD in blackberries are attributed to multiple factors. Environmental factors include the exposure of the drupelets to ultraviolet-B (UV-B) light or high light intensities, low humidity, wind, rainfall, and interactions of these factors. WDD is often observed earlier in the fruiting season when the canopy is less dense. We know that there are some cultivars are particularly prone to displaying this disorder, so there is a genetic factor as well. The blackberry cultivar Apache appears to be especially vulnerable.
From the University of Arkansas:
Thoughts on White Drupes on Blackberries by Dr. John R. Clark - Fruit Breeder
“I would like to make a few comments on white drupes (WD) and related topics in the early part of this blackberry season in Arkansas. My experience is from the research plots in the Arkansas breeding program, based in West-Central Arkansas, and are based on observations from early June until June 17, 2013. I have seen more white drupes this year than normal, and I think it is due to several factors. A primary one is that our environment shifted quickly, from daytime high temperatures in the upper 70s and nights in the upper 50s to daytime highs near the mid-90s, with above 70 nights (all are Fahrenheit temperatures). I think the plants were rather shocked with this change and responded with more susceptibility to this increased heat and possibly sunlight. I also saw more true sunburned berries during this time –the whole sides of berries burned red or white. The problem appears to have lessened somewhat as fruit maturity has moved along, and I suspect the plants may have adjusted to some degree. One cultivar I noted to have no white drupes was Prime-Ark®45. As I was looking closely at cultivar and new breeding developments I could not find any white drupes on it while some selections were covered with WD berries. Natchez had a few white drupelets with the first ripe berries, while Ouachita had no ripe berries. Note this was in the floricane fruit of PA 45, and it began ripening about June 5 (our season is running 7- 9 days late this year).
Prior to this heat, we saw a tremendous amount of dry drupe berries, often concentrated at the tips of berries. I am not sure if this was anthracnose or another problem, but the weather was very wet several weeks prior to this, the plants were only sprayed with liquid lime sulfur at bud break, and heavy foliar anthracnose was seen during this time. I don’t have a solution to this problem other than as a breeder to try to select and advance selections to release that have less or none of the WD problem, and not spraying to try to identify the most resistant plants to the dry drupe issue. I still feel this WD event is associated with wet periods and sunlight damage; it can be much worse on berries located lower on the plant and closer to the ground that stay wetter longer.”
From the University of Missouri’s Integrated Pest Management Program:
July is the prime time for harvesting and enjoying blackberries. The fruit is ripe when the drupelets are uniformly black. However, sometimes individual or multiple drupelets on a blackberry are off-colored. White, tan, red, or brown drupelet discoloration can be caused by various factors during the growing season.
White drupelet disorder on blackberry often occurs during hot, dry summers. Although drupelets enlarge during the growing season, they fail to turn red. These white or tan drupelets can be interspersed individually among dark-colored ones or in groups. In the past, white drupelet disorder was attributed to stinkbug feeding. However, white drupelets are caused by ultraviolet radiation and high temperatures. In studies conducted on red raspberry, unpigmented or white drupelets developed when fruit was exposed to temperatures of 107°F or higher with four or more hours of ultraviolet radiation. In another study, researchers found that the use of 30% shade cloth during the growing season reduced white drupelet disorder by 63%, but the total soluble solids (i.e., sugars) concentration of shaded fruit was 1% lower than non-shaded fruit, which slightly reduced blackberry sweetness. Some of the older blackberry cultivars, such as Kiowa and Apache, are more prone to developing this disorder than others, but several are susceptible. While white drupelets on blackberries may not be aesthetically pleasing, affected fruit are edible.
Interspersed red drupelets on ripe blackberry fruit can develop before or after harvest. Excessive rainfall before harvest has been associated with red drupelets that are soft and never turn black. In 2020, red drupelets were observed on the floricane crop Prime-Ark 45 blackberries grown in the field and in high tunnels in North Carolina. Also, a tiny eriophyid mite (Acalitus essigi) is known to cause "redberry" fruit on blackberry. Late-maturing blackberry cultivars are particularly prone to redberry mite infestations. These mites feed on the fruit core and at the base of berry drupelets. However, these mites are not common in the eastern United States.
Reversion is the most common cause of red drupelets on blackberry fruit after harvest. With this disorder, some of the black drupelets at harvest change to a red color. Reversion occurs on blackberries that are damaged by bruising or fruit compression during harvest or shipping. Also, blackberries that have a core temperature above 73°F at harvest tend to have a higher incidence of red drupelet than cooler fruit, especially during the early part of the season. Thus, a step-cooling process to lower fruit temperature is used to reduce the incidence of this disorder.
Anthracnose is a fungal disease that produces brown, shrunken drupelets on infected blackberries. Infection occurs in the spring during warm, wet conditions. Pruning to enhance air circulation among plants and removal of old fruiting canes in the dormant season reduces the amount of overwintering inoculum in the planting. Also, weed control improves air flow through the planting during the growing season and helps reduce disease infection. An application of liquid lime sulfur (Sulforix) can also be applied to dormant blackberry buds just before they begin to produce new growth will control anthracnose. Blackberries infected with this disease are off-flavored and are unfit for sale.
All those Universities agree: blame it on our “Heatdome” weather.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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How to Grow Cilantro in the Summer in Hot Climates
16 Jul· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
Are you trying to grow a salsa garden? It's great that most of the ingredients for salsa ripen at about the same time in the backyard garden. The main salsa ingredients - tomatoes, peppers, onions, and garlic - are ready this time of year. And if you wait until September or October to make the salsa, there might be some limes ready from a backyard lime tree in citrus growing regions. But there is one ingredient that throws off that salsa recipe timing: cilantro. Cilantro is easy to grow in hot climates in fall, winter, and early spring. But in hot summers? You can forget about it being ready when the rest of your salsa ingredients are all growing fine. Because of the rising frequency of extended, triple digit summer temperatures (“heat dome” seems to be the 2024 phrase that pays), cilantro is going to turn bitter and send up flower stalks (which, by the way, the beneficial insects love).
You could buy cilantro at the store or farmer’s market. But the aroma and tangy taste of fresh, homegrown, just-picked cilantro can’t be beat.
Before we delve into the solution for getting fresh homegrown cilantro in the summer, here’s what you may have missed in last Friday’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Podcast, #348:
Right now - mid-summer - is peach and plum harvest time for most of us. Phil Pursel of Dave Wilson Nursery talks about choosing the tastiest peach and plum tree varieties, along with care tips, including watering and fertilization. Phil points out the difference between freestone and cling peaches, the importance of chill hours for peach trees, and the major insect pests of peach trees. Phil’s favorite peach: the Red Baron. Fred’s favorite: a dwarf variety, the Garden Gold peach. Phil’s favorite plum: the Emerald Beaut. Fred’s tastiest favorite plum: The weeping Santa Rosa plum.
We’ve talked in the past about ways to improve clay soil; but what about sandy soil? Maser Gardener Gail Pothour offers tips for a listener in Michigan on what to add to that sandy soil to help it retain nutrients and water. And it turns out, Gail is also knowledgeable about how parts of Michigan got its sandy soil to begin with!
The episode concludes with our America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, dissecting a listener’s plan for adding sticks to the bottom of a new raised bed. Even though it’s counterintuitive, that can actually slow down the flow of water through the bed, leading to possible wet soil problems for the plant roots. Unlike what water does above ground (fall through the air, downward). Underground, water must travel along soil particles, not air particles - to head downward. Thus, the importance of using a uniform soil type throughout the container or raised bed.
Find out more when you listen to Ep. 348, The Tastiest Peaches and Plums. Improving Sandy Soil. Raised Bed Drainage Tips.
How To Grow Cilantro in a Hot Summer Climate
There is a solution for cilantro lovers who garden in a hot climate, according to Renee Shepherd, owner of Renee’s Garden seed catalog: Grow cilantro as a microgreen. “Pick it when it's very young, just a few inches tall,” advises Shepherd, based in Santa Cruz County, CA. “The hotter the weather, the younger you pick it. I have seen it growing that way in the Napa Valley. I work with a grower there who besides growing the cilantro seed for us, grows very fancy greens for upscale restaurants in San Francisco. And it's very hot in Napa, just as hot as where you are. He's successful growing cilantro as a microgreen. He uses row covers for protection and grows it in an area that gets afternoon shade through the summer.”
Shepherd says it is a quick, easy crop to grow as a microgreen in just a couple of weeks. The seeds will sprout in five to ten days. But even though you're harvesting the cilantro at a very young age after just a few weeks of growing, you increase your chances of success by planting it where it gets afternoon shade.
That’s just one of the crops Renee discusses in today’s newsletter podcast (above). At Renee’s Garden seed catalog, the Cut & Come Again Salad Garden is prominently featured.
Here is a sampler of carefully chosen varieties for growing in the Cut & Come Again Salad Garden from Renee’s Garden, especially when gardening in containers or small space gardens:
There are replacements for cilantro that may complement your homemade salsa. Some common substitutes mentioned online include mint, basil, parsley and chives, all of which grow well here this time of year. However, there are herbs that ripen in the summer that contain a more cilantro-like flavor. Most of these herbs originate in Southeast Asia, usually Vietnam, and they're available at better nurseries that have a wider range of herbs.
According to Rose Loveall-Sale of Morningsun Herb Farm in Vacaville, CA: “One of the best cilantro substitutes is Vietnamese coriander (Polygonum odoratum), which is also called Rau Ram. The flavor is very similar to cilantro, with a hint of lemon and without the soap flavor that's often associated with cilantro. It makes a great cilantro substitute during the summer when other cilantro species suffer and die under the hot dry conditions.”
Morningsun Herb Farm will be one of the participating vendors at the UC Sacramento County Master Gardener’s big free event, Harvest Day, at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center on Saturday, August 3.
If you bought cilantro seeds today, you could be harvesting it by August for your salsa recipes, by growing it as a microgreen. The UC Master Gardeners of Sonoma County offer these cilantro microgreens growing tips:
• Grow microgreens indoors in pots or trays that are a few inches deep; outdoors grow them in a flat that gets afternoon shade and is protected with a row cover.
• Make sure all containers have good drainage.
• Use a commercial seed starting soil mix to avoid soil pathogens.
• Sow seeds 1/8 of an inch deep. Mix seeds with fine sand to help with even distribution.
• Water regularly with a spray mister to avoid disturbing seeds. Maintain moist, but not wet, soil.
• Growing indoors? You can start the seeds in a container in low light, but move the pot or flat to an eastern, western, or south-facing window after germination.
• Provide six to eight hours of sunlight as soon as sprouts appear. Indoors, if lacking a sunny window, use specialized grow lights over the trays, about 12 hours a day, with the lights 6-12 in. above the sprouted greens.
• Harvest microgreens after they develop their first set of true leaves and are about 2-4 inches tall.
• Snip small clusters of stems with scissors a little above the soil level; rinse before eating.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter!
Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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In search of a Heat-Tolerant Leafy Green Vegetable
9 Jul· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
Today’s podcast deals with any hot climate vegetable gardener’s dilemma: what greens can I grow in the summer that are bolt resistant and won’t end up tasting bitter? We talk with Sacramento County Master Gardener and avid vegetable grower Gail Pothour, who talks about the finalists in the heat-resistant greens growing trial held at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. And the Fresh Physician (and avid gardener), Florida-based Dr. Laura Varich, who extols the virtues of a diet loaded with green, leafy vegetables. And she has a favorite leafy green vegetable that (in her own yard) can withstand the Florida summer heat.
But before we delve into the delicious, nutritious, easy to grow world of leafy green vegetables, here’s what you may have missed in last Friday’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, Episode 347: The Garden Basics travel playlist -“Top 5 All Time Episodes” (which was also featured in last week’s newsletter), “Growing Raspberries and Boysenberries”, and “Getting Rid of Slugs in a Compost Pile”.
The Take-aways:
• Proper spacing, irrigation, and pruning are important for growing berries successfully.
• Slugs can be managed in compost bins by ensuring proper moisture levels and using barriers like iron phosphate or copper.
Why, thank you, AI, for that succinct, bland recap of a 40 minute-plus podcast! Please, take a WD-40 break and I’ll add the flowers.
The ever-ebullient and knowledgeable Master Gardener Pam Bone loves to grow raspberries and boysenberries.
And with 40 years of backyard growing experience of those vining sweet treats, she’s got the keys to success down pat. Originally aired in April of 2022.
Susan Muckey, Master Gardener and worm whisperer, volunteers at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center’s Composting/Vermicomposting Demonstration area.
And she was surprised, amused and befuddled that a question from a listener asked: “There are slugs in my compost! How do I get rid of them?”
We both wondered, how did those slugs get in there? We went through our litany of slug and snail control suggestions, although Susan has one unique take: “Turn the pile at night, so you won’t see them.”
Again, all that, plus that Garden Basics playlist of 5 episodes for long car trips, is in last Friday’s episode 347 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast.
In Search of a Heat Resistant Green
(Today’s Podcast Transcript)
Originally aired on Garden Basics Ep. 264, “Top 10 Homegrown Vegetables, Part 2”
Farmer Fred I have been on a lifelong garden search for a lettuce variety, a loose leaf lettuce variety, that can take the heat. Some are better than others as far as getting through July, perhaps. But it seems like when July turns into August, they all start bolting.
Gail Pothour Right. And actually, several years ago, we did an experiment two years in a row at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. Because we get this question a lot, “Why can't I grow lettuce in the summer?”. So we thought okay, let's find some varieties, and grow them through the heat of summer and see how they do. First off, you need to start with some varieties that are heat resistant, like Jericho that was bred in Israel, so it's a little more heat resistant. And we tried half dozen or so different varieties we monitored when we planted them, how many weeks it was before they started bolting. Some did better than others. Some did pretty well. But what we found is you need to mulch heavily to keep the moisture in, to keep them well watered, provide shade during their entire lifespan in the summer, and then be prepared as soon as one starts to bolt, take it out and then replant with another transplant. So kind of a succession planting. It is possible but it's a lot of work. It takes a lot of water and shading and monitoring. Not sure if it's worth it or not. Grow it in the shade if you have a shady location but often it's not just the sunlight, it is the heat and that’s true even in the shade in Sacramento. We can be fairly warm in the summertime. So it's a tough thing to do.
Farmer Fred The closest green I found that can be grown year round and especially if you do it in the shade it does okay here, and that’s swiss chard.
Gail Pothour right yeah, that can be grown year round. I have done it in an area of my yard where it got some afternoon shade in the summertime. And it was able to survive over summer. But yeah, any of the other leafy greens are going to be a little tough. One of my favorites or absolute favorite lettuce is called Pomegranate Crunch. It's a red romaine. And it is very good. I get it as pelleted seeds, which makes it a little bit easier to germinate. Lettuce can have a difficult time germinating. Lettuce does need light in order to germinate. So don't plant the seed too deeply. Pelleted seeds don't have that problem. But I think sometimes if people have difficulty getting lettuce to germinate, it’s because maybe they buried it too deep. It needs light. It's one of the few vegetables that needs light to germinate.
Farmer Fred And I believe it's one of those seeds that will not germinate in heat.
Gail Pothour Right, right. If you tried sowing lettuce seed in the summer, maybe for a fall crop, it is difficult. If your soil temperatures are too warm, the lettuce seed can go dormant. So if you're also starting it indoors, whereas I use a heating mat to get a lot of my seeds to germinate, you don't use a heating mat for lettuce because the soil will be too warm and lettuce seed will go dormant in heat.
Farmer Fred Some of the varieties that have been recommended as heat tolerant lettuces that I've grown over the years, and they're barely heat tolerant, are Black Seeded Simpson and Amish Deer Tongue. They're pretty good. But like I said, they do eventually bolt. But I think one good rule to remember is if you want lettuce to last in the yard as long as possible, grow loose leaf varieties, not head lettuce.
Gail Pothour Right. And of the ones that we did in our heat tolerant trial, the ones that did well besides Jericho was Year Round Bronze. It's an oak leaf variety, and it was late to bolt in the summer so it actually did very well. Red Cross is a red butterhead, Merlot is a dark red leaf lettuce, and “Paradai”, a red oak leaf. That's one of my favorites, but I can no longer find seeds for it. And then Nevada. It's a green loose leaf, kind of a semi heading type. So all those did well as well as completely expected in our summer heat. So they did better than a lot of other varieties.
Farmer Fred I'm glad you mentioned Nevada because I have grown that one before and it it was pretty good. But I think if you want a dependable green, do the Swiss chard.
Gail Pothour Right, I agree.
Link: Sacramento County Master Gardeners’ Warm Weather Lettuce Trials
============================
Dr. Laura’s Tip for a Heat Resistant Leafy Green Vegetable
Originally aired on Garden Basics Ep. 327, “The Heart Healthy Garden” Guest: Dr. Laura Varich, the Fresh Physician
Farmer Fred I have been on a search for a bolt resistant lettuce, and you gave me that tip last year when we talked last June. I believe it was episode 269 about a healthy diet. You said you need to try the Chinese cabbage, the Tokyo Bekana Chinese cabbage. It is bolt resistant. It can take the heat. And I go, well, gee, I'll try that because I've been searching for years for a summertime lettuce, a green, that I can grow and have with just about every meal. And sure enough, that Tokyo Bekana Chinese cabbage, which isn't really a cabbage, it's more lettuce-like, it has a crunchy flavor, it's a loose leaf variety. Grow it in the shade in the summertime. Grow it in the winter in full sun. And it is delicious. It grows easily. You can plant a short row every month and you can cut it and it comes back and eventually it wears out.
But you can still plant it several times a year. Try it. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. And you even said to try it! it's a game changer. And it really is for anybody searching for a bolt resistant, leafy green that can take the heat. Try that Tokyo Bekana Chinese Cabbage.
Dr. Laura Varich You get a nice big head of that growing and you could just cut off the outer leaves like you said and keep it going and keep it going. And for some reason, the cabbage pests don't seem to like it that much. I haven't had trouble with them, whereas I have trouble with some of the other cabbages. Another one I want to tip you off to, in case you haven't tried it, is one called Devil's Ear lettuce. Have you tried that?
Farmer Fred No. OK, I'm writing it down. Devil's Ear lettuce.
Dr. Laura Varich That's another one that I feel like it probably goes a lot longer before bolting than the rest of them. And it's kind of got a long skinny leaf. It's a smallish kind of head with a long skinny leaf. It's a loose leaf. And it's got some purple on the edges. Super wonderful, very nice flavor. And it doesn't bolt, at least not for a long time. So I love that about it.
Farmer Fred They've done some trials out at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center, the Sacramento County Master Gardener Demonstration Garden, and one summer they did try a lot of different heat tolerant lettuce or allegedly heat tolerant lettuces. And their final verdict was, well, they're barely heat tolerant. And they included things like black seeded Simpson, Amish deer tongue, Red Cross, Jericho, Year Round Bronze and a dark red leaf lettuce called Paradai, P -A -R -A -D -A -I, which is a red oak leaf lettuce. And also they tested Nevada, which is a green loose leaf. And it's kind of a semi -heading type. Again, they did as well as expected in summer heat, but as expected means, well, it might get you to August, but that's about it. So you think Devil's Ear lettuce can last through August?
Dr. Laura Varich Oh, I don't know if I'd say that. But it seems to go longer than the rest of mine as far as before it bolts.
Farmer Fred All right. Well, I will definitely pick up some devil's ear lettuce and give that a try this summer and see how it does. Great. Let's talk a little bit about greens. They're so good for you. They're low calorie and you can serve them in a variety of ways. You can serve them raw in a salad. You can saute them. You can mix it up in stir fries. There's just so much you can do with greens.
Dr. Laura Varich Yeah, and they really are good for you. If you think about healthy foods, they're probably our number one healthy food. They have the most nutrients, again, that nutrient density that we were talking about. So yeah, greens are terrific for us.
And some of the things that are really, really good for us in the foods that we eat. I know we talked about this a little bit before, the strong colors and the strong flavors in our food. And greens have both of those things going for them. Those dark green colors are really a combination of colors. It's a whole smattering of colors that's making that dark green. So they've got a lot of phytonutrients there and they do have some of those stronger flavors, right? Some of that bitterness to it and things like that. That tells us that there's a lot of those are really good phytonutrients in there. So yeah, greens, we can do so much with them. And it's just a matter of finding the ones that you really love.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s). Uphill.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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Can Termites Live in Mulch?
2 Jul· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
Before we start digging through the mulch looking for termites, here is what you may have missed in last Friday’s (June 28) Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Podcast,
Ep. 346: All About Soil Thermometers, Soil pH, and Cardboard Mulch.
• Soil thermometers are precise measuring devices that need to be taken care of properly. They should not be left sitting in the soil or exposed to direct sunlight.
• The depth at which you measure soil temperature depends on what you are planting. For seeds, measure at a shallow depth, while for transplants, measure at a deeper depth.
• Some soil thermometers have a calibration nut that allows you to calibrate the temperature reading. This can be done by placing the thermometer in a glass of ice water and adjusting the arrow to read 32 degrees.
• Soil pH can vary at different depths, especially when using layered mulching techniques. It is important to wait for the layers to break down and mix together before relying on pH readings.
• Professional soil tests from reputable labs can provide accurate information about soil pH and nutrient levels. It is recommended to follow the specific instructions provided by the lab when taking soil samples.
• Cardboard can be used to smother grass and weeds when starting a new garden bed. It should be plain and unadulterated, and watered before being placed on the soil. It takes time for the cardboard to break down and create a suitable planting environment.
=========
After nearly five years of podcasts, here are the five most listened-to episodes of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast:
#5. Ep. 263 The Top Homegrown Vegetables, Pt 1
Farmer Fred and Master Gardener/vegetable expert Gail Pothour discuss the top 5 homegrown vegetables. They cover topics such as growing tomatoes, cucumbers, sweet peppers, beans, and carrots. They provide tips for beginners, including starting with easy-to-grow varieties and using supports for indeterminate tomatoes. They also discuss favorite tomato and pepper varieties and share tips for growing cilantro in the summer.
#4 Ep. 258 10 More Garden Quick Tips
Fred presents 10 more garden quick tips. The topics covered include creating a container garden, making a cheaper seed starting mix, storing and washing chicken eggs, taking better pictures of garden insects, growing small apples, and growing the Suncrest peach tree. The episode also features interviews with experts in the gardening field who provide valuable insights and advice. In this conversation, Fred discusses various gardening topics, including growing fruit trees in small spaces, warding off pests, propagating strawberry runners, improving drainage, and growing popcorn. He provides tips and advice on each topic, sharing insights from experts and personal experiences. The conversation covers a range of gardening techniques and practices that can be helpful for both beginners and experienced gardeners.
#3 Ep. 256 Container Gardening Basics
Fred interviews Pam Farley, author of the book 'The First Time Gardener, Container Food Gardening.' They discuss container gardening for beginners, including tips on choosing the right containers, ensuring proper drainage, and selecting the right plants. They also cover troubleshooting common issues in container gardening and provide a quick planting guide for vegetables, fruits, and herbs.
#2 Ep. 266 Cucumber Growing Basics
This conversation with America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor (and cucumber aficionado), Debbie Flower, covers topics such as cucumber varieties, growing techniques, harvesting tips, and how to prevent bitterness in cucumbers. The episode also touches on the importance of bees in pollinating cucumber flowers and discusses common pests and diseases that can affect cucumber plants. They provide recommendations for trellising cucumbers and share favorite cucumber varieties. In this conversation, Fred also provides recommendations for further reading and resources.
#1 Ep. 319 How to Plant and Care for a Shade Tree
Consulting arborist Gordon Mann joins Fred and shares his expertise on planting and caring for shade trees. They discuss the importance of choosing the right spot with good soil, proper planting techniques, and the long-term care required for tree health. They also emphasize the role of soil in tree growth and the need for organic matter and mulch. The conversation covers topics such as tree watering, root pruning, and the correct way to plant a tree. Overall, the episode provides valuable information for homeowners looking to plant and care for shade trees. They also delve into the topic of tree pruning, emphasizing the need for proper pruning techniques and debunking common misconceptions. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the importance of tree diversity and the role of water management in tree care.
Mulch vs Termites
From the garden e-mail bag, Carol wants to know: “We mulch all over the place, but all those wood chips got me thinking about termites! Has anyone mentioned a problem with the little guys? We keep the chips away from the wood siding, but how far is far enough? Any thoughts?”
My first thought is: mulch is good. A layer of organic mulch, such as wood chips, chipped/shredded tree limbs, compost, or straw, applied a few inches thick around (but not touching) the plants in your garden and walkways, has a lot of benefits.
Mulch retains moisture; it keeps soil temperature constant; it reduces plant stress; mulch suppresses weeds; organic mulch will gradually increase soil organic matter; it attracts beneficial organisms that improve soil fertility and porosity; mulch encourages healthier plants; it reduces the needs for pesticides and fertilizers; mulch protects roots and plants from mechanical injury; and applied on a hillside to thwart the development of flammable weeds, mulch can suppress the spread of brush fires.
Worrying about introducing termites to your yard via a load of mulch is a waste of worry wrinkles. Former college horticulture professor Debbie Flower and I talked about this in an episode of the Garden Basics podcast (Ep. 284 “Ranking Garden Mulches”), because it is a good question for anyone wondering if that load of chipped/shredded tree parts (my favorite form of mulch) that is dropped off in front of your house might contain termites.
“There could have been a pest or disease in that plant that was taken down,” explained Flower. “But all research has shown that those diseases and insect pests, as well as fungus and bacteria, do not survive the process of the chipping and then the moving of the pile. They rely on the intact plant to live. Termites don't live in wood mulch. They rely on bigger pieces of wood, not on this chipped-up stuff that's piled up with lots of air between it. It gets wet, it dries out, it's a very different environment that termites don’t like. The diseases, as well as the insect pests that may have caused the demise of the tree do not survive this process, so they don't come to your house.” You can hear our entire conversation about mulch in today’s newsletter podcast (above).
University research agrees with that assessment. However, there are some warnings.
The University of Florida cautions users of mulch to only apply a thin layer of mulch – or none at all – next to the foundation of the house or outbuildings. Thick, consistently wet mulch can provide a living bridge from the mulch pile to the wood foundation of a house.
Iowa State University points out a problem with termite species that might live in the soil in that state, but still say mulch is a good thing. “Does this mean, as some pest control advertisements claim, that mulch attracts termites to your home or that the mulch somehow causes termites? The answer to both questions is, ‘no.’ In the field, termites were detected with equal frequency beneath mulches of eucalyptus, hardwood, pine bark and pea gravel, as well as bare, uncovered soil. Sustained activity over time was significantly higher beneath gravel mulch.”
Linda Chalker-Scott of Washington State University agrees, but also warns about using cardboard as mulch, which can attract termites: “Many people believe that they shouldn’t use wood chip mulches around their house for fear of attracting termites to their home. This is not true. Termites are not attracted to wood-based mulches, they prefer higher nutrient woody materials like cardboard. If termites were in the tree when it was chipped to make mulch, the termites would have died through the process and will not be introduced into your garden from the mulch. However, if you have an established termite population in the ground surrounding your garden, wood chip mulch can be a bridge from the soil to the structure. If you are concerned with termites around your garden, it would be best to consult a professional to set up monitoring or barrier control methods around your home.”
I would add that keeping mulch 12 inches away from the foundation, allowing that area to occasionally dry out, will dissuade termites from entering that non-moist environment.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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Helping Your Garden Cope with the Heat
25 Jun· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
Before we delve into the sweaty details of getting your garden through the summer, here’s what you may have missed in last Friday’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, the Heart Healthy Garden, recorded live at the Sacramento Rose Society in February of 2024:
• Eating a heart-healthy diet and exercising regularly can help improve heart health and reduce the need for medications.
• Fiber is an important component of a heart-healthy diet and can be found in a variety of fruits, vegetables, and whole grains.
• Growing your own fruits and vegetables allows you to have a constant supply of fresh, fiber-rich produce.
• Choosing heirloom varieties of vegetables can provide higher nutritional content compared to hybrid varieties.
• Seeking information from reliable sources, such as university websites, can help ensure accurate and trustworthy gardening advice.
What’s in Today’s Podcast at the top of this page?
The perfect companion piece to the information below, Debbie Flower and myself discussed more container planting tips, recorded last summer at Harvest Day at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center, a free community event held the first Saturday of August every year, including this August, on Saturday, August 3. Details here about Harvest Day. This segment originally aired in Episode 278 of the Garden Basics Podcast. Among its highlights:
• Why you don’t want to use garden soil in containers.
• The best potting mix to use for a container plant.
• What’s happening to the roots of plants in containers on a 100-degree day.
• How to better protect your outdoor potted plants in a heatwave.
• The differences in shade cloth, and how to use it.
• How to reuse old potting soil.
• Are you watering your container plants effectively? Probably not.
• What do you put in the bottom of a plant container to aid drainage? Nothing! We tell you why.
• How to save garden seeds to last for years.
• And, how to get pepper seeds to germinate in half the time.
Helping Plants Cope with the Heat
Much like most of the country, our area here in Northern California just went through the first real heat wave of the season, with temperatures hovering around the century mark for several days this past week. The “Excessive Heat Warning” issued by the National Weather Service for Tuesday through Thursday predicted, “Dangerously hot conditions with temperatures 95 to 108 possible and widespread major heat risk.” As if that was not enough, try getting a good night’s rest with “limited overnight relief with temperatures in the 60s to mid 70s.” My apologies to those of you who normally try to sleep at night when summer nighttime temperatures are above 70.
Several meteorologists are calling for more intense heatwaves for the United States this summer. What’s a gardener to do to make their lawn and garden more heat-tolerable? Here are some tips for having a thriving garden during the summer’s upcoming heat waves, as well as save water:
• Mulch like mad. Create a one to three-inch layer of organic material such as bark, shredded leaves, or chipped/shredded tree branches, laid on top of the soil. This will reduce moisture loss from soil, moderate soil temperatures, control weeds which compete for water, and will return nutrients to the soil as it breaks down. Be sure to keep mulch a few inches away from the stems or trunks of plants.
• Count on compost. Mix compost into the soil to increase the soil’s ability to absorb and hold water, and to slowly release nutrients to plants. This reduces stress, making them less susceptible to pests.
• Plant early ripening varieties of vegetables that are mostly harvestable after only 60-65 days of growth. Plant in blocks instead of rows to create shade for roots and reduce evaporation.
• Choose vegetable varieties that will produce a lot of food from one plant, such as tomatoes, squash, and peppers. Corn, on the other hand, is a thirsty crop that may only give you one or two ears per stalk, depending on the variety.
• Hot afternoons can kill a container plant in a single day. Consider grouping potted plants together in an area that gets some afternoon shade. Or slip that pot into a larger pot so the sun isn’t beating down on the sides of the pot containing the soil.
• If you feed plants, use a slow release, organic fertilizer to discourage excessive plant growth that attracts pests and increases water needs.
• Hold off on major planting chores. When working on a large planting project, remember that the best time to plant is in the fall when the weather starts to cool. Winter rains will help these plants establish deep, healthy root systems before they are exposed to the summer heat.
• The less lawn, the better. Lawns need more water than most other landscaping, so consider reducing or replacing your lawn with water-wise groundcovers, low maintenance perennials or a porous hardscape. If you plant a lawn, chose drought resistant varieties.
• Mow lawns less often and raise the height of your mower blade to 3 inches. The longer grass will shade roots, lessen evaporation, and inhibit weed growth.
• Get wise to the weeds. Keep up with controlling these unwanted plants since weeds compete for water. The combination of a drip irrigation system and several inches of mulch will help prevent weeds.
• Go with the low flow. Use soaker hoses for irrigation. Or invest in a drip system or micro sprayers that can cut down on water waste. This allows the slower trickle of water to penetrate further into the soil without running off.
• Consider installing a ‘smart controller’ for your irrigation system. This can save water by helping to calculate your water requirements and automatically adjust as the weather changes.
• Irrigate early in the day. Watering early in the morning with cooler temperatures and lighter winds will minimize evaporation.
• Go deep. Water less often, but more deeply. This encourages deeper root systems that can better tolerate dry periods.
• Get in the zone. Group plants with similar water needs together to make watering easier and more efficient.
• Go native. Consider replacing declining plants with a species better suited to your climate, such as plants native to your area. Once established, many of these plants can survive on rainfall alone.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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A Tour of Debbie Flower's Garden
14 Jun· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
Last week, we did a little podcast tour of my garden, with Debbie Flower asking the questions. Turnabout is fair play, so this episode features Debbie’s unique, water-saving landscape and her collections of plants and garden tools that have some very interesting stories.
But again, an audio tour is missing the picture. Pictures, to be more exact. So, while you’re listening to this repurposing of Episode 343 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, scroll down to enjoy the visuals that go along with the stories of Debbie Flower’s landscape.
But first, here’s a link to what you might have missed on Tuesday’s Garden Basics podcast (Ep. 342) - our weekly Q&A session, this time tackling the challenges of planting carrots in hot climates; and, the pros and cons of using landscape fabric/weed cloth in your garden (the “pros” list will be quite short).
Word of Warning: Latin Used Here Today
A word of warning: a lot of Latin-based botanical names are tossed around here. Some people think we’re just bein’ highfalutin’ elitists, jabbering in a dead language. Actually, the botanical names can be very accurate in pinpointing the exact plant.
For example, according to the Sunset Western Garden Book, the plant known commonly as “Dusty Miller” could refer to any of five distinct plants with differing growth habits: Artemisia stelleriana, Centaurea cineraria, Lychnis coronaria, Senecio cineraria/Jacobaea maritima (old name/new name), and Tanacetum ptarmiciflorum. The “Dusty Miller” Debbie refers to as a plant she remembers from her youth in New Jersey was the Lychnis; and to avoid any confusion, she only used the term, “Lychnis”. Here in California, I grew up with Senecio cineraria in the front yard, which was always referred to as, “Dusty Miller.”
“What Does That Have to Do with the Price of Tea in China?”
That was a favorite saying of my mother, to prod me to get to the point of whatever I was talking about. OK, here’s the point: After listening to this, you may be intrigued by one or more of the plants in Debbie’s garden, perhaps the California native plant, Eriogonum grande rubescens that she mentions towards the end of our chat.
But, just hearing her say, “Eriogonum grande rubescens” may have you wondering…
“What the hell? How do you spell that?” At least, that is what I was thinking when she said it. But I’m too polite to interrupt. Besides, if I had asked the question, “What is the common name for that plant?” There’s a darn good chance the answer would be a variation of, “I don’t keep common names in my brain,” bringing the chat to a standstill, while we ponder the answer. In the interest of keeping the conversational ball rolling, I move forward, knowing I can solve this issue easily enough:
CHECK THE OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT!
Don’t check the Substack transcript. Don’t check the Apple or Spotify transcripts. Unless you want a good laugh. And it’s why I include my own edited transcript for each episode of the Garden Basics podcast available at either GardenBasics.net or via my podcast uploader, Buzzsprout. Not only will you get the correct plant spelling (usually), but you will also get the common name, usually (but not always) in parenthesis. For example, here is the portion of the Eriogonum plant chat from the transcript provided at GardenBasics.net:
Farmer Fred
But this is quite the view, sitting here on your front porch, especially this time of year with the Palo Verde in bloom, and just the understory of all the plants and the flowers of the sage peeking up over the the wall.
Debbie Flower
And the Eriogonum grande rubescens (red or rosy buckwheat) that's flowering red right now, with the lavenders in front of it. And then the yellow calendulas. I like that combination too. And the pink Pelargonium behind.
Now, here is the same portion, generated by AI and used by many podcast transcription services:
Farmer Fred
this is quite the view sitting here on your front porch, especially this time of year with the Palo Verde in bloom, and just the understory of all the plants and the flowers on the stage peeking up over the the wall
Debbie Flower
and the Areoginum grandrubescens. That's an flowering read right now with the lavenders in front of it. And then the yellow color Angelus. I like that combination too. And the pink Pelargonium behind, see
And this is why we are safe from world domination by Artificial Intelligence. It’s just a robot that has never pulled a weed or smelled a rose in its mechanical life.
Nor, even after five years of manually correcting their transcripts to make them more gardener friendly, have they figured out the difference between “root” (as in, a tree root) and “route” (as in, “Get Your Kicks on Route 66”). Even though Oklahoma City is “oh, so pretty,” you’d think they could figure out after all these years, I am probably referring to that bulge in your lawn, not offering melodious praise to Amarillo, TX or Gallup, NM. Or Flagstaff, AZ.
(P.S. “Angelus” is not a plant. It’s daily church bells at noon and 6 p.m.)
Again, just punch play above, and begin scrolling through the pictures of Debbie’s Garden:
“Native fescue lawn in foreground, Leymus condensatus ‘Canyon Prince’ grey-green grass behind. Pink flowering shrub is my neighbors. It’s probably an oleander”
“Hollywood juniper at the end, far right, Matilia poppy next (Romneya coulteri)
Butterfly weed with white blooms (Asclepia speciosa), Meyer Lemon on right, perhaps the dead remains of a young Tower of Jewel plant in the bottom.
Three Tower of Jewel plants (2 in their second year, one in its first year) (Echium wildpretti). Scarlet Oak in back. Unnamed “Governor’s Mansion” pelargonium on left.
Closer look at the “Governor’s Mansion” pelargonium.
Palo Verde ‘Desert Museum’ tree
“Fat Albert” Colorado Blue Spruce with Verbena bonariensis in front, desert willow on right
Eleagnus x Ebbingei cultivar. Commonly called oleaster or Ebbing's silverberry, it’s a cross between Elaeagnus macrophylla × Elaeagnus pungens (according to the Missouri Botanical Garden)
Eleagnus, Muhlenbergia rigens (deergrass), toyon, Fat Albert Colorado blue spruce
In a hot climate, it makes sense to put a greenhouse in afternoon shade
Asparagus aethiopicus, Sprenger’s day (Sprenger's asparagus fern)
Dymondia margaretae (Silver Carpet). An interesting story about this groundcover.
Birdbath with high-spout dripper. Caged for cat deterrence.
The gardener’s path. On right: calendula, abutilon, Eriogonum giganteum (St. Catherine’s Lace buckwheat). On left, around birdbath: liriope (lilyturf)
Smart Pot with vegetable seeds planted and bamboo sticks to deter animals.
Green Cone composter. Strawflower and Borage behind.
lavender, Eriogonum grande rubescens (red or rosy buckwheat) on right, calendula in back. Upside down wine bottle is in a small olla at base of newly planted lavender.
closeup of wine bottle in olla.
Counterclockwise from front left: Palo verde, Euphorbia charisma’s ‘Wolfenii’, Hesperaloe parviflora, sulfur buckwheat, white pacific coast Iris, salvia leucantha, another salvia leucantha. “This is one of the dryest parts of my garden,” says Debbie.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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A Tour of Fred's Garden, with Debbie Flower
7 Jun· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
If this newsletter podcast sounds familiar, it should. It is also the current (Ep. 341) Garden Basics podcast where myself and America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, take a late May stroll through my garden, discussing the plants, as well as gardening techniques. But wouldn’t it be nice to see those plants and garden accoutrements? Well, here you go.
But first, a recap of what you may have missed on this week’s two Garden Basics podcasts:
Tuesday, June 4:
Ep. 340 -Q&A Cross Pollination Concerns. What is the Best City or State for Gardening?
• Understanding cross-pollination and its implications for seed saving and plant breeding.
• The importance of local conditions and location-specific knowledge in gardening.
• The impact of climate and weather on gardening success.
• Different perspectives on the best US cities for gardening, highlighting the influence of location on gardening success.
Thank you, AI, for your dry summary. Debbie Flower and I are more warm and endearing than that.
Friday, June 7: Ep. 341 - Fred’s Yard Tour with Debbie.
Or, listen above and scroll below. But we are definitely more entertaining and informative than AI would have you believe:
Takeaways
• The importance of selecting heat-resistant greens for summer gardening
• Strategies for dealing with garden pests like tomato hornworms and cabbage worms
• Tips for growing determinate tomatoes and managing peach trees
• Insights on using raised beds and root cellars for gardening
• The benefits of using vermiculite for seed planting and the use of worm bins for fertilizer
• The significance of providing shade for certain plants and the value of using row covers for protection. SmartPot compost sacks are a convenient and effective way to create rich compost for gardening (golly, AI, thanks for plugging the sponsor!)
• Clover is resistant to dog urine and can be used as a ground cover in areas frequented by pets.
• Fruit trees can be grown in containers, and it's important to control the width and height of the tree to manage root growth.
• Different soil types, such as raised bed soil planter mix and pumice, can be used for gardening in containers.
• Citrus, blueberries, and potatoes can be successfully grown in containers, providing a versatile option for home gardeners.
Again, just punch play above, and begin scrolling here:
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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When Should You Fertilize Your Plants?
31 May· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
Before we delve into the soil, fertilizer in hand, a quick review of what was on the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast this past week;
Tuesday, May 28, Ep. 338: Zucchini Sex! Which cherries are best for cooking?
Questions tackled on this episode include answering questions about squash that is slow to produce healthy looking fruit (it’s due to the lousy sex life of male and female squash flowers this time of year: “it’s too hot!”, “it’s too cold!” “I’m hungry!” “I’m too full!” (See? Plants are just like us. Except they don’t get headaches.) And, some kind words about growing tart/sour cherry trees. They’re great in pies!
Takeaways from Ep. 338
• Squash, melons, and cucumbers have male and female flowers on the same plant, and successful pollination requires synchronized flowering.
• Pollinators like bees play a crucial role in transferring pollen between male and female flowers.
• When fertilizing plants, it's important to consider the temperature and nutrient concentration, especially with synthetic fertilizers.
• Organic fertilizers tend to have lower nutrient concentrations and are less likely to cause burning or osmotic problems.
• Cherry trees, particularly tart cherries, require good drainage to prevent root rot.
Friday, May 31 - Ep. 339 How to Water Clay Soil (and more tips for gardening in clay!)
In this episode of Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, the focus is on how to water clay soil and other tips for gardening in clay. Debbie Flower, America’s Favorite Retired College Horticultural Professor, shares valuable insights on the topic. The episode covers the characteristics of clay soil, the importance of organic matter, watering techniques, mulching, and the use of cover crops. The conversation also delves into the impact of soil structure on crop production and the benefits of no-till and cover cropping practices.
Takeaways From Ep. 339
• Understanding the characteristics of clay soil and the importance of organic matter in improving its quality.
• Learning effective watering techniques for clay soil, including surge irrigation and the use of moisture meters.
• Recognizing the benefits of mulching and the use of cover crops to enhance soil structure and promote healthy plant growth.
When Should You Fertilize Your Plants?
From the garden e-mail bag, Danny has been thinking about fertilizing, probably a little bit harder than most of us gardeners: “I am wondering if at a particular temperature, plants can’t feed themselves. Do they just need water if it’s too hot? What time of day is best for feeding the plants: during the day, or at night? Or do they need the sun to eat?”
Those were good questions, which we took up on the Garden Basics podcast. You can hear that segment in today’s newsletter podcast post.
According to retired college horticulture professor Debbie Flower, Danny is on to a very important aspect of correct fertilization techniques in the garden: plants can’t absorb fertilizer, if it’s too hot.
“Research shows that above 86 degrees Fahrenheit, plants don't use fertilizer, don't absorb nutrients,” explains Flower. “They're just pumping water through their system to keep themselves cool, much like a human would sweat in a very hot situation. He asks if they need sun to eat. Plants do need sun to make food. Plants are autotrophs, meaning they feed themselves. ‘Auto’ means self. And they use nutrients which are gathered primarily through the roots and some from the air through the stoma on the leaves to make their own food. And that food would only happen when the plant can collect the energy from the sun or other light source.”
Flower also explains that when we fertilize, that food is being processed and absorbed primarily underground, by the plant roots. “When we fertilize, we are just putting nutrients into the growing media. That growing media, in most cases, is the soil outdoors. It can also be the soilless mix in a container you have for a houseplant. Whatever the roots are growing in, that is the media I'm talking about. And that's where the nutrients need to be, that the plant will then absorb. We can apply those nutrients at pretty much any time of day or night. But we really want to apply the nutrients when it's cooler. All we're doing is loading the root zone with the nutrients that the plant then will collect when it's ready to make its own food. The one caveat is it's recommended we not fertilize at very high temperatures, above 86 degrees. If we get any fertilizer on the leaves of the plant, we might cause burning, especially if we applied too much fertilizer at any one time. We can cause burning, because the plant only has a limited ability to choose what it absorbs. If the growing media is just completely full of nutrients, and it's above 86 degrees and the plant is trying to just pump water through itself, it may not be able to get just water if there's too much of the nutrients in the root zone or too much when applying it. Those are the reasons we don't apply when temperatures are very high. We want the plant to be able to get just water to keep itself cool when it’s hot.”
The source of the fertilizer is also critical. “Plant injury can happen more easily when applying synthetic fertilizers in hot weather,” says Flower. “When we apply organic fertilizer, however, they tend to have a much lower concentration of nutrients in them. And they are in larger molecular sizes and need to be broken down by natural processes before the plant can get them. So, it's a slow release. It happens over time. It happens with the activity of weather as well as microorganisms and macro-organisms like worms, that break down that organic material and release those nutrients more slowly. So, we tend to be safer applying the organic ones. We tend to have less fertilizer burning with organic fertilizers.”
But if you're using lots of mulch, you may not even need to apply any fertilizer at all, says Flower.
“Using organic matter can apply all the nutrients that you need,” says Flower. Remember that the source of the nutrients for the plant is in the growing media. We put the nutrients in, or nature does, by digesting the dropped leaves, for example, creating a natural compost below the plant. Put it in the growing media and then the plant will take that up when the plant needs it.” Good sources of mulch for the garden include chipped/shredded tree parts, straw, fallen and shredded leaves, or aged compost.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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Composting Kitchen Scraps, Both Indoors and in the Garden. Is That a Good Idea?
24 May· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
Composting, Indoors and Out
Today’s newsletter podcast deals with options for indoor food scrap composting equipment, specifically kitchen composters (originally aired in Episode 196 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast in May of 2022. In our conversation with America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, she took a scenic bypass to talk about her outdoor garden kitchen scrap composter device, the Green Cone Composter. More information about that is below.
But before we get to that, let’s recap what you may have missed on this week’s two Garden Basics podcast, which includes another deep dive into the “kitchen scraps in the garden” debate:
Tuesday, May 21: Episode 336 - Q&A Kitchen Scraps in the Garden? When Should You Plant a Flowering Magnolia Tree, Spring or Fall?
Takeaways
• Burying kitchen scraps in the garden can attract scavengers like rats, gophers, voles, and ants, and may affect the quality of the soil microbiology.
• Composting kitchen scraps first or using alternative methods like African keyhole-style gardens or the Green Cone composter are recommended.
• The best time to plant a flowering tree like the Magnolia Genie is in the fall, but it can also be planted in the spring with extra care and regular watering.
• Keeping a tree in a container over the summer requires frequent watering and protection from heat damage.
• Using Smart Pots can help maintain cooler soil temperatures and reduce evaporation in container gardening.
Friday, May 24: Garden Basics Podcast, Episode 337 - How to Choose Nursery Plants. Tips for Starting a School Garden
Takeaways
Choosing Nursery Plants:
• Read the signs and make sure the plant will fit in your garden and take the conditions you have in mind.
• Check the plant for health, including good color, no holes or spots on the leaves, and no stickiness or mushiness.
• Inspect the media the plant is growing in, looking for weeds, the height of the media, and the presence of roots.
• Consider direct seeding certain vegetables like cucumbers and squash, as transplanting them when they have too many leaves can hinder their growth.
• Pot up plants in larger containers if you're not immediately planting them in the ground, especially for tomatoes, peppers, and other summer vegetables.
Tips for Starting a School Garden:
• School gardens can be a valuable educational tool and a source of community involvement.
• Getting the school on board and finding funding can be challenges, but reaching out to the principal and parent groups can help.
• Students play an active role in maintaining the garden and learn valuable gardening skills.
• The garden provides opportunities for hands-on learning, including lessons on composting, integrated pest management, and plant care.
• The garden also serves as a gathering place for the community, hosting farmers markets and lunch pop-ups.
Burying Kitchen Scraps in the Garden: Is That a Good Idea?
Recently, we received a question wondering about the pros and cons of burying kitchen scraps to feed the garden soil.
From the garden e-mail bag, Alice confesses: “I am a lazy composter. What we do is bury our kitchen scraps in different holes, all throughout our raised beds, all winter long. And it ends up making truly beautiful soil over the years. And there's lots of earthworms and other microorganisms I can't even see. Anyway, I'm wondering if there would be any problems with that. We do have raccoons, skunks, and possums because we live in the country. But they don't visit the garden. Apparently, they have resources elsewhere. And except for them, I don't see that there's an issue because the soil looks very nice. But you never mention burying garbage in your columns or podcasts. So, I'm wondering if there's some problem that I'm not aware of.”
Alice, other possible scavengers of kitchen scraps buried in the garden might include rats, gophers, voles and ants. Especially ants, which could create tunnels throughout your raised bed which could siphon the irrigation water away from plant roots and out the bottom of the bed, or wherever their tunnels might lead. However, whatever you're doing seems to be working.
But beware, there are a lot of variables. You want to bury it deep, certainly deeper than 12 inches to keep the four-legged varmints, including the household dogs, away from it. You don’t want to bury meat scraps. Also, avoid any foods soaked in oils, salts or sugars, which can attract smaller pests and possibly effect the quality of your soil.
For even more opinions, and they are just that - opinions - the National Gardening Association has a thread at their website (garden.org) entitled, “Kitchen Waste Buried in Garden Soil?” Many people have weighed in on their experience doing that very thing, and it appears to be evenly divided as to whether they like it or not.
Some of the comments and opinions:
From Florida: “My mother in law (who lived to be 97 years old) had wonderful vegetable and flower gardens and she'd always take kitchen waste out to her garden, dig a hole and bury it. Just be sure to bury it deep enough that night time critters (raccoons, possums) don't dig it up.”
From Nevada: “Short answer: No. Decomposition is an aerobic process, it needs oxygen to happen - that's why we continually turn our composts piles. Well preserved fossils were formed in an anaerobic environment - without oxygen, instead of decomposing, they turned into rocks. You won't really have fossils in your garden, you will have a landfill. Although archeologists do get pretty excited when they find an old dump. If you choose to leave your kitchen waste on the surface of the soil, it will decompose but, the bacteria will be using nitrogen in the process. So, the soil will be low in nitrogen until the decomposing process is completely finished. When the bacteria finish the job and die, the nutrients will be put back into the soil. In the meantime, you will have a messy, rat filled garden.”
And, From Western Massachusetts, my favorite: “I do this. Well, I was doing it, but the dogs drove me insane so I have stopped for now. I was using this method and won't know how it works until I plant that bed in May (it will be tomatoes next year):-Dug a trench 12-18" deep and piled the soil to the right of it. -started keeping a separate wastebasket for kleenex, paper towels ("browns"). It's actually kind of amazing how much garbage is composed of that stuff....toilet paper rolls and so on. -go out and dump the kitchen compost bucket & coffee grounds in the trench, throw on some browns, cover with an inch or so of soil-repeat until the whole mound was about ten inches off the surface of the bed, then dig another trenchThis was great for me and also great for the dogs who were like, 'did someone bury a Kleenex somewhere???? IT IS WAITING FOR ME'And I had to cover the three rows I'd done with chicken wire. If it weren't for those bozos though I would totally have kept it up. I think the freezing and thawing over the winter would have compressed that to a normal soil level and by the time I transplanted tomatoes into it in late May, it would be unrecognizable. Unfortunately I was unable to complete my testing on this theory.”
Many of the other answers were variations of what is known as the African Keyhole Garden, a subject we explored in depth in a previous edition of this newsletter.
The African Keyhole Garden
There is also the African Keyhole Garden, which is another way to incorporate kitchen waste in the garden using a container – with plenty of small holes – to allow worms to go in and out of it, sort of like a real time, secure worm bin where the worms can spread their castings throughout the garden bed. The garden is shaped like a keyhole, to allow you to get to the middle of a six-foot bed to deposit the scraps in a container, which could be as simple as a trash can with a lid, with holes drilled in the sides that are buried in the garden. “The African keyhole garden was designed by CARE in Zimbabwe during the mid-1990’s to encourage people to grow their own food,” explains Napa County Master Gardener Penny Pawl. “The design relied on materials that were close at hand—such as bricks, stones, branches, hay, ashes, manure and soil—to create an easy-care garden for disabled people. The plan became so popular that many Africans began growing kitchen gardens. More than 20,000 of these have been built in Africa.”
An Alternative Way to Bury Kitchen Scraps in the Garden
Another person with experience of burying kitchen waste in the garden is our frequent contributor to the podcast, retired college horticulture professor Debbie Flower. She has a device that is buried in her garden that hold kitchen scraps and keeps the four-legged critters out: the Green Cone Solar Waste Digester/Compost Bin.
“It's tall enough - about three feet tall - that a raccoon, which was my initial fear, cannot get into it,” says Flower. “It has a lid with a hinge and a lock. I have to say I've broken every hinge and lock that has come on them. That's kind of the weak point of the thing, but I just put a rock on top. And only because the lid might blow away. Nothing has tried to get into it. I have lots of worms that go in and out of it. Everything in it just disappears because the worms come to it and take it away to the rest of the garden. I had my last one for 15 or more years.”
I believe the best place to break down those kitchen scraps for use in the garden is in a compost pile or a worm bin, where the worms will make some of the best soil amendments around, worm castings.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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Roly Polys, Sowbugs, Earwigs - Which One Is Guilty of Garden Destruction?
17 May· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
In today’s newsletter podcast, our America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, talks about earwigs, a garden scavenger that probably does more damage than you might want a “neutral” garden critter to do. Probably the most famous “neutral” garden insect is the non-selective praying mantis, who doesn’t mind chowing down on your aphids for dinner, with a ladybug for dessert. The big takeaway from that earwig chat? “Don't wear loose clothing in an earwig infested garden.” We also touch on (in a manner of speaking) roly polys (aka, pillbugs).
This Week on the Garden Basics Podcast
Before we delve into the answer to that question posed in the headline, here is what is going on in the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast this week:
Tuesday, May 14: Episode 334 Q&A Rhubarb for Hot Climates? Lights for Seedlings?
In this episode, we answer garden questions from listeners. The first question is about growing rhubarb in hot weather. Master Gardeners Ruth Ostroff and Kathy Morrison (of the Sacramento Digs Gardening newsletter) discuss their experiences with growing rhubarb in Sacramento, which is challenging in a hot climate. (Ruth also names the rhubarb variety she has had success with in the hot Sacramento Valley.) Kathy shares a rhubarb recipe, made as an upside-down cake.
The second question is about grow lights for starting tomato and pepper seeds indoors. Debbie Flower and I explain the importance of using a light system that is big enough to cover all the seedlings equally, as well as mixing different bulb spectrum colors. Of course, Debbie also emphasizes the need for air circulation and movement for young plants. We’re old, so we recommend using fluorescent lights, but we discuss the different options available in the market.
Friday, May 17: Ep. 335 Roof Rat Control Tips. Asparagus-Lemon Recipes
In this episode of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, the main topic of discussion with retired UC Cooperative Extension Farm Advisor Rachael Long is roof rats and their impact on gardens and orchards. The conversation covers the behavior and habits of roof rats, their diet, nesting habits, and the damage they can cause to fruit trees. The episode also includes tips for controlling roof rats, such as trapping and using bait stations. Additionally, the episode features a segment on recipes using garden fresh asparagus and lemons, with Master Food Preserver Myrna Undajon-Haskell.
Takeaways:
• Roof rats are nocturnal creatures that can cause significant damage to fruit trees and orchards.
• They have a preference for heights and are known to nest in attics and burrow underground.
• Roof rats can be controlled through trapping and the use of bait stations.
• Recipes using garden fresh asparagus and lemons are provided.
• Preserving lemons and dehydrating citrus are also discussed.
So, Who is Eating Your Seedlings? Controlling Sowbugs, Pillbugs and Earwigs in the Garden…and Indoors
From the garden e-mail bag, Jessica wants to know:
“I have a crazy amount of roly-polys and pincher bugs this year. And the pincher bugs keep making their way into my house, too. Help! Is there anything I can do to drive them away other than bug spray? And can the roly-polys cause damage to my plants? I normally don't have a green thumb but my plants are doing great this year and I'm finally feeling like a good ‘plant mom’ so I don't want anything to mess them up.”
Jessica, generally roly-polys (pillbugs) and sowbugs cause few issues with thriving plants. They prefer the dead organic matter on the ground. But if their favorite foods aren’t around, they will go after your plants.
According to the creepy, crawly experts at the UC Integrated Pest Management Department, sowbugs and pillbugs feed primarily on decaying plant material and are important decomposers of organic matter. However, they occasionally feed on seedlings, new roots, lower leaves, and fruits or vegetables touching the soil. They sometimes come indoors, which can be nuisance.
If pillbugs or sowbugs are a problem, reduce the amount of decaying organic matter on the soil and minimize the wetness of the soil surface. Irrigate early in the day so surfaces are drier by evening. Keep compost and mulch back from plants and building foundations to keep them outdoors. Using raised beds or planting boxes and drip or furrow irrigation instead of sprinklers usually keeps pillbugs and sowbugs from becoming serious problems.
Pincher bugs (earwigs) are also a mixed blessing. They will munch on garden plants, but they also eat aphids!
Despite their ferocious appearance, earwigs generally don’t attack humans, although they are capable of biting if trapped in clothing or sat upon.
Should you be concerned about earwigs in your garden? Yes, and no. If your yard is primarily lawn, trees, woody ornamentals or native plants, let the earwigs do their job, going after aphids.
However, if you are growing vegetables, herbaceous flowering plants, sweet corn or plants with soft fruits such as strawberries or apricots…yes, take action. Earwigs feed at night and hide during the day in dark, cool, moist places in the yard as well as within flowers and vegetables. Your job is to reduce their hiding places and surrounding moist areas, as well as employing vigilant trapping.
Some tips for earwig control from the UC Integrated Pest Management Program:
• Eliminate dense undergrowth of vines, ground cover, and weeds around vegetable and flower gardens.
• Clear weeds away from the base of fruit trees and prune out any fruit tree suckers near the ground that earwigs could use as a ladder. Harvest fruit as soon as it’s ready. Pick up any fallen fruit.
• Remove leaves, boards, boxes, and other debris from the planting areas.
• Move flowerpots and other garden objects that can harbor earwigs.
• Reduce moisture in the area. Use drip irrigation instead of sprinklers.
Indoors, earwigs can be swept or vacuumed up. If earwigs are a regular problem in a building, inspect the area to see how they are getting into the house and seal up cracks and entry points. Remove materials outside the perimeter of the building that could provide hiding places, such as ivy growing up walls, ground cover, bark mulches, debris (especially leaves in gutters), wood piles, leaf litter, piles of newspapers, or other organic matter.
Also, keep water and moisture away from the structure by repairing drain spouts. Grade the area so water drains away from the structure.
Pillbug and Sowbug Fun Facts!
(courtesy of Butte Co. (CA) Master Gardener Michelle Ramsey)
• It’s hard to believe, but sowbugs and pillbugs are more closely related to lobsters and crayfish than they are to insects. These soil-dwelling crustaceans belong to the Isopoda order.
• Because they are crustaceans they breathe through plate-like gills located on the underside of the abdomen.
• These bugs are the only crustaceans that have adapted to living their entire life on land.
• Sowbugs and pillbugs are similar in appearance and their names are sometimes used interchangeably.
• However, the sowbug has a pair of tail-like appendages which project out from the rear of its body.
• The pillbug has no extreme posterior appendages, and can roll up into a tight ball when disturbed. This is why pillbugs are sometimes called “Roly-Poly” bugs
• Females have marsupial-like pouches on the undersides of their bodies that can hold up to 100 developing eggs.
• The immature isopod can remain in the pouch for up to 2 months after hatching.
• Full development to an adult takes about 1 year. During this time, the isopod will molt 4-5 times. Molting occurs in two stages: first the back half of the exoskeleton molts, then, two to three days later, the front half molts.
• The life span of both pillbugs and sowbugs is about three years.
• Sowbugs and pillbugs are most active at night. They spend daylight hours in moist, dark habitats.
• Because they breathe through gills, they require a very moist environment. That’s why you will find them hidden underneath rocks, in ground litter, or between the edges of moist grass and sidewalk areas during the day.
• They do not bite, sting or transmit disease. They are harmless to humans.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Thank you for supporting my work with your pledge. I really could use some new handlebar tape.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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Thin Crowded Fruit Now, For a Lot of Good Reasons
10 May· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
If you’re looking to harvest bigger pieces of fruit from your trees and vines this summer, now's the time to get out your hand pruners and thin off the overcrowded fruit. Other good reasons for thinning lots of little fruit from trees now can also thwart bigger problems later this year, such as undersized fruit, excessive fruit drop, and broken fruit tree branches.
Here are some tips for thinning from the fruit tree experts at UCANR:
• For apples, European and Asian pears, apricots, peaches, nectarines, plums, pluots, kiwifruits, and persimmons: Remove some of the fruit. Space fruit evenly along each branch, with perhaps six inches between each piece of fruit. More importantly, be sure to leave the largest sized fruits on the tree or vine. Although the trees might appreciate a light feeding now, the best time to fertilize these crops is in July and August, when the trees are setting their fruit buds for the following year. An exception would be peach and nectarine trees attempting to recover from peach leaf curl. For those varieties, thinning and fertilizing now can help redirect the tree’s energy into producing more leaves to replace the fallen ones.
• For table grapes, remove grape bunches so that there is at least six inches of space between each remaining bunch of table grapes. Cut off the "tails" from the remaining bunches at that same time. This is the lower one-quarter to one third of the bunch, where it begins to taper down in size. This will send more energy to the remaining grapes on the bunch. The book, "The California Master Gardener Handbook" advises that fertilizer can be applied for each grapevine when the berries are about a quarter-inch big, usually in May. The same book advises gardeners to apply about 50 gallons of water per week per vine, during the hottest months (June through August) here in the Central Valley. Apply less (about 35 gallons a week) during May and September. Adding a few inches of mulch to the top of the soil beneath the vines will help preserve soil moisture.
• Because of their small size, cherries are not usually thinned from backyard trees. In addition, nut crops, such as almonds and walnuts, are not thinned.
• What about blueberries? The amount of thinning will depend upon the blueberry variety and fruit load relative to the vegetative area of the plant. Larger plants and branches that are more vigorous can support a heavier fruit load.
• Citrus trees tend to thin themselves, a phenomenon called “June Drop.” However, citrus fruit thinning now can help a tree drop fewer fruit in late spring.
Certain citrus types such as Valencia oranges or some mandarins have tendencies towards alternate bearing. That’s a year with heavy fruit production followed by a year with sparse production. You can reduce the potential of a tree to alternate bear by reducing the fruit load in a heavy fruit set year by thinning out some of the fruit. Pruning the tree will also help to offset alternate bearing. Also, fertilize less in light years and more in heavy years so that the trees needs are met according to the demands of the fruit load. Despite using these strategies, some varieties will just alternate bear.
• Do not allow the old citrus fruit to stay on the tree longer than necessary. This may contribute to a smaller crop and perhaps, more fruit drop, for the next crop. And, as you may have noticed, those oranges and mandarins that usually produce ripe fruit in the winter but still have some left on the branches may taste dry, with little or no flavor. Cleaning up fall fruit now beneath citrus trees can help cut down on future pest and disease issues, as well.
The University of California’s “California Backyard Orchard” website goes into the science of the benefits of thinning deciduous fruits:
Removal of flowers or young, immature fruits early in the spring can lead to increases in fruit size by limiting the number of fruits that continue growing to harvest. It increases the leaf-to-fruit ratio and removes smaller fruit that would never reach optimum size or quality. Apples, European and Asian pears, apricots, peaches, plums, kiwifruits, and persimmons are almost always thinned until the leaf to fruit ratio is favorable for supporting growth of adequately sized fruits. Typically, nut crops and cherries are not thinned.
Large fruit come from strong flower buds that grew in full sunlight, and on trees that have a favorable leaf to fruit ratio; not too many fruit per branch. In order to manipulate the tree into having just the right amount of crop that will size well and develop adequate flower buds for next year’s crop the fruits are hand thinned, removed in the dormant pruning process, or both. Apples, European and Asian pears, apricots, peaches, plums, kiwifruits, and persimmons are almost always thinned. Fruits on non-thinned trees are still edible, just smaller.
The earlier that fruits are thinned and the leaf to fruit ratio is increased, the larger the fruits will be at harvest and the greater the effect on next year’s bloom. The home fruit gardener needs to use judgment regarding spacing of the fruit as well as removal of small and damaged fruit. Spacing fruits evenly along a branch or leaving only one fruit per spur is a good practice, but leaving the largest fruit is more important. The small ones even well spaced will never become as large as the big ones closer together or in clusters. Leave the same number of fruit per branch, but leave the big ones no matter how they are spaced. This will lead to larger fruit. Most home fruit producers do not thin enough fruit off. It hurts to drop all that potential fruit on the ground. It usually takes 2–3 years of experiencing small fruit from inadequate thinning to get it right.
Blossom thinning also increases the leaf to fruit ratio because competition among developing fruits and elongating shoots and roots is relieved early; however, risk can be associated with blossom thinning because bad weather during bloom and postbloom may reduce fruit set even more.
Standard apple and peach cultivars require leaf to fruit ratios between 40:1 and 75:1 (40 to 75 leaves per single fruit) to reach typical size at harvest. Early varieties need a larger ratio of leaves to fruit. Spur-type apple varieties require a smaller leaf to fruit ratio of 25:1 to attain good crop size. This result seems to be related to the fact that photosynthates and stored food reserves are distributed more for fruit growth relative to vegetative growth in trees of this growth habit. Leaves of dwarf trees seem to be more efficient in exporting photosynthates because they are exposed to direct sunlight for more hours of the day than those on standard trees.
Nut crops are not thinned because kernel size is not an important factor.
Thanks for reading Beyond Basics: The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
Thank you for also listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast! It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your garden friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
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Meet the Garden Beneficials, Pt. 2 (and Barn Owls!)
3 May· Beyond the Garden Basics Podcast
The podcast included with this newsletter features an interview with Rachael Long, University of California Cooperative Extension Farm Advisor Emeritus, and one of the nation’s best sources of information on the benefits of having barn owls prowling over your property to control rodents. Rachael mentions the UC Publication, “Songbird, Bat and Owl Boxes” which is a paid publication. Here’s a link for more information on barn owl boxes; and, another link with specific barn owl box building instructions. This chat originally aired in Episode 40 of the Garden Basics podcast in August of 2020.
Before we continue with our beneficial insect hit parade, here’s what has happened this week on the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast:
Tuesday, April 30: Ep. 330 - Q&A Controlling Bermudagrass; What about using black plastic in the garden?
Gail from California wants to start a vegetable and flower garden in her backyard, which is currently covered in Bermuda grass. Fred and Debbie suggest waiting a year and using soil solarization to kill off the Bermuda grass. They also recommend starting small with container gardening. They discuss the challenges of dealing with Bermuda grass and the benefits of solarization. They also touch on the use of black plastic mulch in the garden.
Friday, May 3: Ep. 331 Cucumber Starting and Training Tips
In this episode, Fred and Debbie Flower discuss cucumber planting advice, including starting cucumbers from seed or nursery transplants, training cucumber growth, and choosing the right cucumber plants. They also cover topics such as soil temperature, soil type, watering, trellising, pollination, and harvesting cucumbers. They provide tips for preventing cucumber diseases and pests, as well as suggestions for different cucumber varieties to try.
Meet the Garden Beneficials, Part 2
Last week, we discussed three of the best beneficial insects to have in your garden: lacewings, ladybugs, and hoverflies. Today, we cover several more garden good guys worth putting to work in your yard to subdue the pests, and the “Welcome Mat” plants they need for extra food and shelter.
Soldier Beetles (leather-winged beetles)
Like many of the beneficials, it is the larval stage of soldier beetles that do most of the munching on the bad bugs. Whereas the adult soldier beetles feed mostly on the pollen and nectar of flowers - as well as the occasional aphid, insect eggs and larvae - young soldier beetles can be found under the bark of the plant or in soil or litter. There, they feed primarily on the eggs and larvae of beetles, butterflies, moths and other insects.
Plants That Attract Soldier Beetles
* Celosia Cockscomb
* Coreopsis
* Daucus carota Queen Anne’s Lace
* Echinacea purpurea Purple Coneflower
* Pycnanthemum Mountain Mint
* Rosa Roses
* Solidago Goldenrod
Parasitic Mini-Wasps
Mini-wasps are parasites of a variety of insects. They do not sting! The stingers have been adapted to allow the females to lay their eggs in the bodies of insect pests. The eggs then hatch, and the young feed on the pests from the inside, killing them. After they have killed the pests, they leave hollow “mummies.” Among the parasitic mini-wasps:
Braconid Wasps
Braconid wasps feed on moth, beetle and ﬂy larvae, moth eggs, various insect pupae and adults. If you see lots of white capsules on the backs of a caterpillar, these are the braconid cocoons. Leave the dying caterpillar alone!
Ichneumonid wasps control moth, butterﬂy, beetle and ﬂy larvae and pupae.
Trichogramma wasps lay their own eggs in moth eggs (hungry caterpillars-to-be), killing them and turning them black.
Plants that attract parasitic mini-wasps:•Achillea ﬁlipendulina Fern-leaf yarrow•Achillea millefolium Common yarrow•Allium tanguticum Lavender globe lily•Anethum graveolens Dill•Anthemis tinctoria Golden marguerite•Astrantia major Masterwort•Callirhoe involucrata Purple poppy mallow•Carum carvi Caraway•Coriandrum sativum Coriander•Cosmos bipinnatus Cosmos white sensation•Daucus carota Queen Anne’s lace•Foeniculum vulgare Fennel•Limonium latifolium Statice•Linaria vulgaris Butter and eggs•Lobelia erinus Edging lobelia•Lobularia maritima Sweet alyssum - white•Melissa ofﬁcinalis Lemon balm•Mentha pulegium Pennyroyal•Petroselinum crispum Parsley•Potentilla recta ‘warrenii’ Sulfur cinquefoil•Potentilla villosa Alpine cinquefoil•Sedum kamtschaticum Orange stonecrop•Sweet alyssum - white•Tagetes tenuifolia Marigold ‘lemon gem’•Tanacetum vulgare Tansy•Thymus serpylum coccineus Crimson thyme•Zinnia elegans Zinnia - 'liliput'
TACHINID FLIES
Parasites of caterpillars (corn earworm, imported cabbage worm, cabbage loopers, cutworms, armyworms), stink bugs, squash bug nymphs, beetle and ﬂy larvae, some true bugs, and beetles. Adults are 1/3 to 1/2 inch long. White eggs are deposited on foliage or on the body of the host. Larvae are internal parasites, feeding within the body of the host, sucking its body ﬂuids to the point that the pest dies. Plants that attract tachinid ﬂies:•Anthemis tinctoria Golden marguerite•Eriogonum fasciculatum California Buckwheat•Melissa ofﬁcinalis Lemon balm•Mentha pulegium Pennyroyal•Petroselinum crispum Parsley•Phacelia tanacetifolia Phacelia•Tanacetum vulgare Tansy•Thymus serpyllum coccineus Crimson thyme
MINUTE PIRATE BUGS (Orius spp.)
True to their name, minute pirate bugs are tiny (1/20 inch long) bugs that feed on almost any small insect or mite, including thrips, aphids, mites, scales, whiteﬂies and soft-bodied arthropods, but are particularly attracted to thrips in spring.
DAMSEL BUGS (Nabis spp.)
Damsel bugs feed on aphids, leafhoppers, plant bugs, and small caterpillars. They are usually dull brown and resemble other plant bugs that are pests. Their heads are usually longer and narrower then most plant feeding species (the better to eat with!).
BIG EYED BUGS (Geocoris spp.)
Big eyed bugs are small (1/4 inch long), grayish-beige, oval shaped) bugs with large eyes that feed on many small insects (e.g., leaf hoppers, spider mites), insect eggs, and mites, as both nymphs and adults. Eggs are football shaped, whitish-gray with red spots. Plants that attract minute pirate bugs, damsel bugs and big eyed bugs:•Carum carvi Caraway•Cosmos bipinnatus Cosmos “white sensation”•Foeniculum vulgare Fennel•Medicago sativa Alfalfa•Mentha spicata Spearmint•Solidago virgaurea Peter Pan goldenrod•Tagetes tenuifolia Marigold “lemon gem”
Thank you also for listening to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. It’s available wherever you get your podcasts. Please share it with your gardening friends.
Fred Hoffman is also a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener in Sacramento County, California. And he likes to ride his bike(s).

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit gardenbasics.substack.com
- Listen Listen again Continue Playing...
- Listen later Listen later
Show more

Episodes

Weed Killers Just Got More Confusing

The Catalina Cherry Tree. The Fruit is for the Birds.

What is a Crisis Nursery?

Why You Want a Chipper/Shredder, and not a Rototiller.

Can You Grow Rhubarb in a Warm to Hot Climate? Yes!

Dealing with Fruit Tree Varmints

Fruit Tree Pruning Steps

The Soil Texture Triangle

Why Are the Blackberries Turning White?

How to Grow Cilantro in the Summer in Hot Climates

In search of a Heat-Tolerant Leafy Green Vegetable

Can Termites Live in Mulch?

Helping Your Garden Cope with the Heat

A Tour of Debbie Flower's Garden

A Tour of Fred's Garden, with Debbie Flower

When Should You Fertilize Your Plants?

Composting Kitchen Scraps, Both Indoors and in the Garden. Is That a Good Idea?

Roly Polys, Sowbugs, Earwigs - Which One Is Guilty of Garden Destruction?

Thin Crowded Fruit Now, For a Lot of Good Reasons

Meet the Garden Beneficials, Pt. 2 (and Barn Owls!)