Episodes
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The international humanitarian protection system that was built in the aftermath of World War II does not offer protection for people displaced by climate change. In this episode, former UN Deputy High Commissioner for Refugees T. Alexander Aleinikoff, who is now Executive Dean of The New School for Social Research, calls the refugee system “broken.” Rather than expanding to accommodate “climate refugees,” he makes the case for starting over with a new paradigm focused on a right not to be displaced. Such a system would be designed to help people stay in their homes through climate adaptations and resilience, he argues, and provide a mechanism for seeking justice.
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The ways in which people talk about climate migration can affect how individuals are treated. While many activists frame climate migrants as blameless victims of circumstance and even refer to them as “climate refugees,” this approach does not always lead to public sympathy. Moreover, highlighting the role of climate in displacement can unintentionally cause a backlash among host communities, who themselves likely are experiencing or expecting to face similar environmental challenges. In this episode, we speak with Natalia Banulescu-Bogdan, who is deputy director of MPI's International Program and our in-house expert on public opinion and migration messaging, about the narratives and public attitudes towards climate migrants.
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Missing episodes?
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The Arctic region is warming much faster than other parts of the world. Nordic countries—Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden—have a reputation for being at the forefront of efforts to combat climate change. But does their track record also extend to helping people who have been displaced by environmental impacts, internally and internationally? In this episode, we discuss the impacts and responses in the Nordic region. Our guests are the researchers Miriam Cullen and Matthew Scott, who are among the leaders of the Nordic Network on Climate Related Displacement and Mobility.
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Climate change is remaking vacations, particularly in hot months. Extreme heat can be deadly for tourists and events such as wildfires, hurricanes, and sea-level rise can devastate tourism-dependent communities. Tourism is also a major contributor to climate change, and some travelers have begun rethinking their plans, taking emissions into account as they consider transportation and destinations. This episode explores how climate change is affecting global tourism. Our guest is Daniel Scott, research chair at the University of Waterloo’s Department of Geography and Environmental Management and an international research fellow at the School of Hospitality and Tourism at the University of Surrey.
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Floods and other fast-moving natural disasters are becoming more common and more severe because of climate change. When these disasters strike, they can displace huge numbers of people. This episode turns to Brazil, where historic flooding in 2024 forced hundreds of thousands of people from their homes. Our guest is Valéria Emília de Aquino, a human-rights lawyer and researcher in Brazil.
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The U.S. military has long warned that climate change poses a challenge to global security. Instability and insecurity can be a result of unmanaged migration, with the potential for widespread climate displacement creating tensions in host communities. And they could also spark additional migration, if people flee precarious political dynamics. This episode, with Climate Migration Council member and retired U.S. Navy Pacific Fleet Commander Admiral Scott H. Swift, evaluates the security dynamics of climate change and migration, focusing on the Pacific.
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Do countries that are major polluters have a moral responsibility to aid people displaced by hurricanes, sea-level rise, and other events driven or exacerbated by climate change? What form might that responsibility take? For this episode, we are joined by Jamie Draper, who focuses on political philosophy and ethics at Utrecht University. While he argues that certain countries do have a responsibility to aid displaced people, labeled “climate migrants” by some, in his view that does not necessarily translate to offering them protection.
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The world is grappling with the idea of restitution for people who have been negatively affected by the impacts of climate change—potentially including displacement within a country or across international borders. World leaders are at the early stages of creating a global loss and damage fund to financially compensate these climate victims. Much remains unresolved, including complicated and controversial questions about which countries owe money to whom, and how to attach a dollar figure to intangible losses such as destruction of natural land. In this episode, we speak with Adelle Thomas from Climate Analytics to wade through the thicket of challenges ahead, in particular as relates to climate migrants—those displaced by hostile environmental conditions linked to a rapidly changing climate.
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Many people are leaving rural mountain areas around the globe because their livelihoods are becoming less profitable and the threat of landslides and other disasters is increasing. As the impacts of climate change grow, these mountain residents may face additional challenges dealing with environmental disruption. And by moving to urban areas, they may face a new set of issues and lose connection with their homelands. In this episode, we speak with Amina Maharjan from the International Centre for Integrated Mountain Development about the unique climate migration issues that are witnessed in mountain regions.
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A landmark climate migration deal inked in late 2023 would allow hundreds of climate-vulnerable residents of the small island nation of Tuvalu to move to Australia. The pact is the latest step for a region that is at the leading edge globally in policy experimentation to address climate displacement. This Australia-Tuvalu deal, which is not uncontroversial, follows a brief and ultimately shelved attempt by New Zealand to create a “climate refugee” visa. How are these policies playing out, and what can the rest of the world learn from the Pacific experiences? This episode features renowned legal scholar Jane McAdam, who directs the Kaldor Centre for International Refugee Law at UNSW.
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Migration is complex, and rarely is there only one single factor that prompts people to leave their homes. That is especially true when climate change is involved, since its impacts on internal and international migration are often indirect and hard to trace. So when we talk about climate migration, what exactly do we mean? And why is the distinction important? Kerilyn Schewel, co-director of Duke University’s Program on Climate-Related Migration, joins this episode of the podcast to help make sense of the terminology and why it matters.
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Can climate-driven international migration pose a security threat? Former U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff thinks so, but not necessarily because of the migrants themselves. Irregular migration prompted by climate events can empower smugglers and criminal groups. And it can spur an extremist backlash in receiving countries if people feel their government is not adequately protecting them. Chertoff talks about the security implications of climate change and migration in this episode of the podcast.
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Facing the adverse impacts of climate change, many people are better off migrating, whether within their country or internationally, at least for a short time. Yet for a variety of reasons, migration is not always possible. This episode of our podcast focuses on these groups, sometimes known as “trapped populations.” Why do people stay in places where their homes, livelihoods, and their very lives are threatened? We explore these questions with Caroline Zickgraf, deputy director of the Hugo Observatory at the University of Liège in Belgium.
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Climate migration sounds simple. It’s not. This episode of the podcast speaks with Lawrence Huang, MPI’s lead researcher on climate change and migration, to answer the most common questions around one of the least understood dynamics in human movement. Read an article on this topic from Lawrence here: "Climate Migration 101: An Explainer."
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Humanitarian organizations often race to help people affected by natural disasters. But what if they could act before catastrophes occur to mitigate disaster-induced forced migration? In this episode, we discuss this kind of anticipatory action and how it might reduce chaotic displacement. Our guests are Gana Gantulga and Zeke Simperingham from the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies.
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When large numbers of asylum seekers and other migrants arrive at the borders of Western countries without prior authorization to enter, they are often treated as “spontaneous” arrivals. But migration is almost never truly spontaneous. Usually, human mobility across international borders is the result of complicated decision-making and a careful weighing of the costs and benefits. This episode features David Leblang, a professor of politics and public policy at the University of Virginia, who discusses how climate change fits into the migration calculus.
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Increasingly, human beings are city dwellers. More than half the global population lives in an urban area, and the rates are increasing. Some new urban residents may be fleeing rural areas vulnerable to the impact of climate change. But are they likely to fare much better in the city when it comes to climate impacts? And are fast-growing cities around the world prepared to confront environmental challenges that come with rising populations? This episode discusses these questions with noted climate expert Neil Adger, a professor of human geography at the University of Exeter.
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People displaced by climate change are not eligible for refugee status. But should countries extend any sort of legal protections to them? Our guest, Ama Francis, a climate displacement project strategist with the International Refugee Assistance Project and Columbia Law School’s Sabin Center for Climate Change Law, thinks so. In this episode, we discuss some small ongoing initiatives and what new legal pathways might look like.
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Is the world facing a chaotic century of mass migration spurred by climate change? As the planet’s temperature warms, award-winning environmental journalist Gaia Vince thinks so. In her book, Nomad Century: How Climate Migration Will Reshape Our World, she contemplates a future in which hundreds of millions of people move from one part of the globe to another in a planned and deliberate migration. We discuss her bold solutions for managing what she terms a species emergency in this episode.
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Guyana is a small country in South America that undoubtedly will be greatly transformed by the recent discovery of massive offshore oil reserves. Extremely vulnerable to climate change, with predictions that its capital will be underwater by 2030, Guyana has been known as a green champion, trapping more carbon dioxide than emits. How will the world’s fastest growing economy manage environmental change, particularly with economic growth and proximity to troubled Venezuela likely to drive significant immigration? We discuss these dynamics with Camila Idrovo and Jermaine Grant from the Pan American Development Foundation.
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