Episodes
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What does growth actually look like across different company stages? And why do so many CMOs and CEOs get it wrong?
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the absolutely awesome Irina Chuchkina to unpack how marketing strategy should evolve as a business scales, from scrappy startup to polished scaleup and beyond.
We dig into misaligned expectations, chaotic Slack messages, undercooked processes and the all-too-common urge to chase “unicorn status” without building the proper foundations.
Irina drops absolute gold advice like: “Growth is such an often abused word… building strong foundations matters a lot more than just speed.”
We talk about the power of focus, the danger of spreading too thin too fast and why your org design, KPIs and even your spark need to shift at each stage.
This one’s a must-listen for marketing leaders navigating the madness of growth and trying to do it the smart (not scary) way.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Partner marketing: powerful strategy or PR vanity project?
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I'm joined by the fabulous fintech marketing leader Yuliya Muir to dive into the real work that should happen before anyone hits "publish" on that shiny press release.We get into the nitty-gritty of what makes a great partnership, from aligning on ICPs and co-owning go-to-market plans, to navigating lopsided dynamics and building genuine, long-term relationships. It’s not all about airtime, it’s about impact!
We also chat about how to divide and conquer campaign responsibilities, what to do when one partner has way more resources than the other, and how to make sure both sides actually win.
As Yuliya puts it: “Partnerships just work when done right. But you have to nail the ‘why’ before you go anywhere near the ‘what.’”
If you’ve ever been handed a partner announcement and asked to “just do some marketing,” this episode’s for you.
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Missing episodes?
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Ready for a dose of real talk about squiggly careers and breaking through glass ceilings in marketing?
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the fabulous Betsy Samuel to unpack the twists, turns and triumphs of a marketing leader’s journey.
Betsy shares candid stories from her “one-person-band” early days in FinTech, the bold leaps that shaped her career and why embracing uncertainty can be your biggest advantage.Together, we tackle the challenges of burnout, building credibility and finding your tribe - both inside and outside your company.
Betsy’s practical advice? Raise your hand for new projects, lean into your network, and remember: “You never know where that next opportunity is gonna come from to learn something new.”
If you’re looking for inspiration, actionable tips, or just want to hear from someone who’s been there, this episode is packed with wisdom, humor, and heart. Perfect for any marketer ready to level up.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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In this episode, we’re diving into one of the hottest debates in marketing: does brand or revenue get the trophy? I’m joined by Keith Povey, who’s spent over two years as Director of Revenue Marketing and trust me, he’s got the battle scars and the wisdom to prove it! We unpack what it really means to balance brand building with revenue-driving tactics, especially when your KPIs are all about new business.
Keith shares his journey from being laser-focused on revenue to embracing the power of brand, revealing why “if people don’t know who you are, they can’t buy from you”. We chat about the challenges of measuring brand value, the evolving relationship between marketing and sales, and why sometimes, marketers need to be brave enough to be held accountable for business growth. As Keith puts it, “it’s easy to get an ‘A’ when you write the questions to the exam”. But does that really move the business forward?
Tune in for honest stories, practical tips and a few laughs along the way. This is a must-listen for marketers who want to level up!In this episode, we’re diving into one of the hottest debates in marketing: does brand or revenue get the trophy? I’m joined by Keith Povey, who’s spent over two years as Director of Revenue Marketing and trust me, he’s got the battle scars and the wisdom to prove it! We unpack what it really means to balance brand building with revenue-driving tactics, especially when your KPIs are all about new business.
Keith shares his journey from being laser-focused on revenue to embracing the power of brand, revealing why “if people don’t know who you are, they can’t buy from you”. We chat about the challenges of measuring brand value, the evolving relationship between marketing and sales, and why sometimes, marketers need to be brave enough to be held accountable for business growth. As Keith puts it, “it’s easy to get an ‘A’ when you write the questions to the exam”. But does that really move the business forward?
Tune in for honest stories, practical tips and a few laughs along the way. This is a must-listen for marketers who want to level up!Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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What’s it really like working in a big marketing team at a large company? In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with the brilliant Nicola Harley, Head of Global Content at Morningstar, to unpack the highs, the lows and everything in between.
We chat about the perks - think structured career paths, specialist roles and (sometimes) bigger budgets - but also the politics, long approval chains and finding your voice in a sea of stakeholders. Nicola shares why marketers in large companies need to think like intrapreneurs: “You have to really treat a big business like a startup… build things, demonstrate things and build an incredible network around you.”We also talk leadership, EQ vs IQ, how to handle idea overload from the C-suite and why marketers should be better at communicating what they learn, not just what they achieve.
Big company or small, this episode is full of insight and it’s definitely not just for the corporate crowd. You’re going to love it!Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by the brilliant Emma Westley to unravel the emotional rollercoaster that is marketing attribution. Yep, we’re talking about the messy middle between marketing activity and actual sales – and why proving ROI isn’t as simple as plugging numbers into a spreadsheet.
From navigating complex customer journeys to the billboard problem (“How do you really know if it worked?”), Emma shares her candid thoughts on what attribution can – and can’t – do. Spoiler alert: “Attribution is never going to be perfect. So stop chasing perfection – chase insight.”
We get into why marketers need to be more confident telling their story to the business, what metrics actually matter and why aligning with sales is the secret sauce. Whether you love data or dread the dashboards, this is the honest chat every marketer needs.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Ever had that moment where your CEO casually says to you “I've had an idea, let’s go international, so congratulations your market just tripled” Suddenly, it’s not just about growing, it’s about scaling across borders, cultures and entirely different customer expectations. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with Jasper Martens, CMO at PensionBee, to unpack what really happens when you take your brand global.
We talk about where to start, what not to assume and why you need to treat localisation like a non-negotiable, not an afterthought. Jasper shares what he learned the hard way: “You can’t add culture later like a hat - you need your outfit ready before you start.”
From building the right team and budget planning to navigating brand tone and working with strategic partners, we get into the real-world nitty-gritty of making international expansion actually work.
If you’re thinking about growing beyond your home turf, this one’s packed with the stuff you really need to know.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence1
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Scaling marketing without a bottomless budget? It’s a balancing act - part strategy, part scrappiness and a whole lot of creativity! In the episode of CMO Therapy I’m joined by the brilliant Katie Hayes, Head of Marketing at Ozone API, who’s mastered the art of doing more with less.
We dive into how Katie’s built a standout global brand with a small but mighty team, smart partnerships and some seriously savvy content moves. As Katie said, “you can do a hell of a lot with a specialised, talented, ambitious, keen team.” Expect lots of great tips on co-marketing, content repurposing, scaling without overspending and personalisation that doesn’t cost the earth.
If your budget’s being stretched, shifted or squeezed but you’re still expected to make magic happen, then this episode is packed with real talk and actionable advice.Music clip by Filo Starquez with Divergence
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ABM. Three letters that should mean strategic gold… but all too often spark confusion, chaos and, let’s face it, mayhem.
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by the brilliant Cathy Calver, CMO at Global Relay, who helps us cut through the buzz and get real about account-based marketing – what it actually is, when it’s the right approach and how to make it work without driving your teams mad.
We talk about how ABM isn’t just a tactic – it’s a mindset shift. It needs cross-functional buy-in, proper planning and a whole lot of alignment between sales, marketing and everyone in between. Cathy shares war stories, practical tips and a few “please don’t do this” moments that every marketing leader needs to hear.
Whether you’re already deep in ABM land or just trying to make sense of it, this one’s for you. Come for the therapy, stay for the strategy.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Are you mapping your marketing to the buyer’s journey? Or just following sales?
Marketers love a good strategy - but are we mapping ours to how buyers actually buy or are we just shadowing sales? In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with Dr Christine Bailey to dive into one of my all-time favourite debates: how much the buyer’s journey has evolved and what that means for measuring marketing success.We’ve all heard the cry "death to the MQL!” but what’s the real alternative? Christine brings the data, the insights, and a refreshingly candid take on what marketers should be tracking instead. We tackle:
- Why traditional funnels are failing marketers
- The (many) ways B2B buyers are actually making decisions today
- How to align your marketing efforts before buyers ever hit a sales pipelineIf you’ve ever felt like your marketing team is speaking one language and sales another then this one’s for you. Let’s talk buyer journeys, real marketing impact and finally cracking this puzzle.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Walking into a company as the first marketing leader (or the new one) is a wild ride. Everyone has an opinion on what marketing should be—branding, lead gen, social media, events... maybe even ordering swag. But what if their expectations don’t match reality?
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I chat with Mariette about the highs, lows, and curveballs of stepping into a marketing leadership role. We get real about setting boundaries, educating the business on what marketing actually does, and handling the flood of “have you tried this?” ideas without shutting people down or becoming the dreaded “no” person. Mariette shares her strategy: listen, filter, and steal with pride - because great ideas can come from anywhere.If you've ever felt like a one-person marketing department juggling a thousand expectations, this one’s for you. Grab a coffee (or something stronger), hit play, and let's figure this out together.
Listen now!Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Ever feel like marketing is just a lonely game of shouting into the void? Well, guess what? It doesn’t have to be. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Gemma Livermore - founder of Women of FinTech and FS International Marketing Lead at Seismic - to dive into the power of community.
We’re talking about more than just networking. This is about real human-to-human connections, building trust, and creating a marketing strategy that doesn’t just sell but actually matters. Gemma shares how brands can grow loyal advocates (without being salesy), why community-driven marketing is the secret weapon every marketer needs, and how to get leadership buy-in when they start asking about ROI.
If you’ve ever wondered how to turn your audience into a thriving, engaged community, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in and learn how to build something that lasts.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence -
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with Kathryn Strachan - marketing powerhouse, author and fractional CMO - to uncover the secret sauce of content strategies. Spoiler alert: you can’t create a killer content strategy without a solid marketing strategy to back it up. Kathryn and I talk about why starting with your audience is everything and how truly understanding their needs can help you deliver content that actually connects.
We dive into the big questions: how do you balance quality and quantity? How do you navigate internal battles over messaging? And how can you create campaigns that not only look great but deliver real results? Kathryn also shares her tips on building your own personal brand, leveraging partnerships and using AI (the smart way) to save time without cutting corners.
Whether you’re focused on driving brand awareness, creating case studies or proving ROI, this episode is packed with insights you can take straight to your team.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Ever feel like AI is the shiny new toy everyone’s talking about, but you’re not sure what to do with it? In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with marketing maestro Sumeet Vermani to cut through the hype and uncover what AI really means for marketers.
We’re tackling the big questions: - Where do you even start with AI? - Should you focus on tech or strategy first? - And what’s the right balance between human creativity and machine efficiency?
Sumeet shares real-world examples, from AI-generated personas to global content localisation, and even a glimpse into AI-powered sales coaching. Plus, we explore how to avoid AI pitfalls, foster collaboration across teams, and create a future-ready marketing strategy.
If you’ve ever wondered how AI could transform your marketing team (or secretly feared it might replace you), this is the episode for you. Expect actionable insights, a few laughs, and a hefty dose of inspiration. Don’t miss it!
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by Alex Ford, a true marketing genius who effortlessly bridges the gap between sales and marketing. Together, we dive into the world of demand generation, intent measurement, and the often-complicated relationship between sales and marketing teams.
Alex shares his unique perspective on creating awareness and demand without rushing to the hard sell, as well as his hands-on approach to digging deep into buyer intent – a must for measuring the success of demand gen efforts.
We explore some big questions, like:
- How can marketers effectively measure and communicate intent throughout the buying process? - Where should marketing end and sales begin – or is it all one continuous effort? - What are the biggest misconceptions sales and marketing teams have about each other? - And most importantly, how can sales and marketing work together as a true revenue-generating team?
This is a must-listen episode for anyone looking to align these two powerhouse teams and unlock their full potential.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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In this episode of CMO Therapy, we dive into the art of fluid marketing with Helen Owen, a marketing guru in the world of payments and an expert in navigating the ever-changing world of marketing strategy. Together, we explore the delicate balance between long-term planning and the need for agility in today’s fast-paced market.
From knowing when to pivot to managing resources and motivating teams amidst shifting priorities, Helen shares insights and real-world examples of how flexibility isn’t just a necessity—it might also be what makes marketing so exciting.
We tackle questions like:
- How do you strike the balance between strategy and adaptability? - What does a truly flexible marketing campaign look like? How can data and tools help you stay ahead of the curve?
Whether you see constant change as a challenge or an opportunity, this episode will leave you with actionable ideas and plenty to think about.
Tune in to learn how to embrace the ebb and flow of marketing and turn uncertainty into your biggest advantage.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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When it comes to thinking like a challenger brand, I couldn’t think of anyone better to ask advice, other than the amazing Eric Fulwiler. With oodles of experience, Eric was previously CMO at 11:FS where he built a media machine and is now Founder of his own agency Rival.
Listen in as we chat about:
- Doing more with less – what does that look like for marketing?
- Challenger brands seem to thrive under pressure, so what are they doing right that bigger players could learn from?
- So many marketing leaders often feel like they’re juggling a hundred things at once with no time for a breather.
- How can we manage it all, especially when we’re trying to do more with less?
- Myth busting the biggest misconception about challenger brands
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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In this episode I speak to Andrea Linehan, Fractional CMO, Advisory Board member for the CMO Council, and previously CMO for CurrencyFair.
Andrea and I have a fantastic discussion about the challenges marketing leaders often face with building a relationship and communicating with the CFO… or communicating ROI from marketing in general!
We chat about:
- When you're in those budget meetings and the CFO is all about numbers, how can we manage the pressure to justify marketing spend, especially when a lot of what we do is more long-term or harder to measure?
- Do you ever get the sense that CFOs see marketing as just a big cost centre?
- How can we flip that narrative and help them understand the long-term value of brand building and customer engagement?
- The best go-to strategy for proving ROI in areas like content creation or brand awareness, where results are more intangible, and how we can show it's worth the investment.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Welcome to my new podcast, CMO Therapy!
Wait, what’s that, another podcast? OK OK. Give me a minute to tell my story.
My name is Lucy Heavens and I’m a senior marketing professional. I’ve worked in the fintech industry for more than 25 years and I love it!One of my favourite and (so I’m told) top skills is relationship building, and I’ve built up quite a network of fintech marketers over the years. Not just any marketers. In my humble opinion, I’m super grateful to be surrounded by lots of awesome marketers.
In more recent years as I’ve become more senior (*cough* and older), I’ve realised that I need these awesome people in my life more than ever. The life of a CMO can be tough at times, right?
On a regular basis my WhatsApp pings with a “fancy a chat?” or “can I pick your brain?” message. I fondly call these ‘therapy sessions’ where my fellow CMOs and I bounce ideas off each other, discuss challenges and unpack sticky situations. Just to confirm – I am not suggesting I have all the answers, 100% not! But there is so much power in having a buddy, an ear, a trusted friend to talk things through.
Two heads are better than one. It takes a village… take your pick of any of those quotes. It’s this approach that’s helped me grow so much quicker into a better marketer and kept me sane over the years.
During one of our therapy sessions, one person said “Lucy, we should record this. So many other would definitely benefit from listening, learning, and offering another perspective.” So this is my gift to you.
If you’ve made it this far, I hoped I’ve tempted you enough to have a listen.
So, welcome to CMO Therapy everyone! A podcast that’s hopefully going to help you navigate your way through your marketing journey because let me tell you, I get it – being a marketing leader is no walk in the park.
In each episode we dive headfirst into the world of B2B marketing, where uncertainty, tight budgets, and fierce competition are just the beginning of the rollercoaster ride. But guess what? You're not alone in this. Why go solo when you can tap into the powerhouse of insights from some of the most awesome marketing leaders in the game?
And look, the title might include the word therapy, but we're not just talking about challenges here – we're tackling them head-on. Join us as we deep dive into the nitty-gritty, share war stories, and unlock secret strategies. Get ready for no-holds-barred conversations because sometimes I have no filter.
So, if you're a chief marketing officer, a marketing lead, or just someone looking to up their marketing game – then CMO Therapy is for you!
You’ll get one new episode every 2 weeks on a Tuesday – my new favourite day of the week - with chats about about so many marketing topics from AI, to thinking like a challenger, to how CMOs can love your CFO.
I’m so excited for you to listen and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. So stay tuned for episode 1!
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
