Episodes
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For grieving people, processing loss through creativity can open doors to healing. In this episode, Trudy and Lisa engage in a lively and illuminating conversation with poet and biographer Molly Peacock about her new book of poems, The Widow’s Crayon Box. This book of poetry is a deeply personal and moving chronicle of Molly’s journey before, during and after the death of her beloved husband. Molly realized she was not living the perceived idea of a widow’s mauve existence, but was experiencing life in all colours. The Widow’s Crayon Box is published by WW Norton and is available wherever you buy books.
Molly has received awards from the Danforth Foundation, the Ingram Merrill Foundation, the New York Foundation for the Arts, the National Endowment for the Arts, and the Woodrow Wilson Foundation. She is a president emerita of the Poetry Society of America and was one of the originators of Poetry in Motion, a popular program that places poems on placards in subways and buses.
Molly joins us from her home in Toronto, Ontario.
Read our blog: CroneCast.ca
Share your questions and comments at cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--From This Episode--
-Poetry-
The Widow’s Crayon Box (W. W. Norton, 2024)
The Analyst (W. W. Norton, 2017)
The Second Blush: Poems (W. W. Norton, 2008)
Cornucopia: New and Selected Poems (W. W. Norton, 2002)
Original Love (W. W. Norton, 1995)
Take Heart (Random House, 1989)
Raw Heaven (Random House, 1984)
And Live Apart (University of Missouri Press, 1980).
-Prose-
A Friend Sails in on a Poem: Essays on Friendship, Freedom and Poetic Form (Palimpsest Press, 2022)
Flower Diary: In Which Mary Hiester Reid Paints, Travels, Marries & Opens a Door (ECW Press, 2021)
Alphabetique, 26 Characteristic Fictions (McClelland & Stewart, 2014)
The Paper Garden: An Artist Begins Her Life’s Work at 72 (Bloomsbury, 2011)
How to Read a Poem, and Start a Poetry Circle (Riverhead Books, 1999)
Paradise, Piece by Piece (Riverhead Books, 1998), a literary memoir
(01:13) - Molly Peacock's Biography and Upcoming Book(03:12) - Reading of "Touched"(05:19) - Touch, Loss & Meaning(10:25) - Imagery and Grief(13:26) - The Widow's Crayon Box and Its Metaphor(18:20) - The Contradictions of Grief(27:49) - The World Continues(33:00) - Sonnet Sequence(41:33) - Closing & What’s Next
--Credits—Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen
Original music by Darrin Hagen
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The conversation centers on creativity for people of a certain age. Lisa is inspired by a writing workshop led by Krista Vernoff, so she and Trudy explore the challenges and obstacles to creativity, such as societal expectations and the publishing industry's youth-driven focus. If creativity is inherent, shouldn’t it be pursued regardless of age? Lisa shares her experience learning Italian and the importance of starting small. They highlight the need for "margins" in life to engage in creative activities and encourage listeners to embrace their creative potential without fear of being too late or questioning the point of the pursuit.
Read our blog: CroneCast.ca
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:42) - Krista Vernoff's Expressive Writing Workshop(04:08) - Exploring Creativity at Different Life Stages(07:03) - The Importance of Purpose in Creativity(09:35) - Finding Margins for Creativity(13:34) - Inspiration and Overcoming Obstacles(22:03) - Reflecting on Childhood Interests(24:43) - Contributing Creatively to the World(26:07) - Encouraging Listeners to Be Creative--Credits--
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen
Original music by Darrin Hagen
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Missing episodes?
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Trudy and Lisa discuss the positive feedback the episode about grief received from listeners of all ages and experiences. Trudy talks about the wonderful and unexpected engagement from diverse listeners. They also reflect on the importance of inclusive spaces and our evolving roles and identities as we age. A rousing debate about the necessity of having some women-only spaces versus only inclusive ones ensues, with Trudy emphasizing her desire to participate in spaces with all genders. Both hosts highlight the importance of adapting to new technologies while maintaining a sense of joy and adventure in life.
Read our blog: CroneCast.ca
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:34) - Intro (02:56) - Seeing Oneself in Stories(07:59) - Space to Be(14:33) - Networking(17:28) - Changing roles(21:14) - Explaining(24:53) - Pace(28:06) - Close--Credits—
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen
Original music by Darrin Hagen
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Trudy and Lisa turn their eyes to the ebb and flow of relationships as they navigate absent loved ones and changing friendships over time.
Read our blog: CroneCast.ca
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(03:59) - Cycles(09:37) - Grace(15:01) - Reciprocity(17:14) - Ebbs + Flows(22:03) - Stages(24:44) - Shared Experiences(29:36) - Close--References--
Franco, Marisa G. (2022) Platonic: How the Science of Attachment Can Help You Make — and Keep — Friends. G. P. Putnam’s Sons. New York, US.--Credits—
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen
Original music by Darrin Hagen
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Our younger selves may have had more stamina, but they’ve got nothing on our experience. Trudy and Lisa explore the idea of competing with the younger self and finding strength in their cronage.
See the clip of Jodie Foster’s full quote: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AynbA4j99NE
Read the blog: CroneCast.ca
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(04:01) - Younger Self(07:50) - Confidence (14:05) - Growth(21:08) - Stamina(23:53) - Refined Treasure(31:43) - Close--Credits—
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen
Original music by Darrin Hagen
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When words don’t feel right, we are left to action. Trudy shares what she learned from those who supported her through the loss of her husband in the best ways they knew how — comforting efforts, clumsy advice and all.
Read our blog:CroneCast.ca
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact.
We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(02:21) - Words(08:08) - Funerals(12:38) - Hospital Staff(17:08) - Acts of Kindness(23:37) - Carrying Forward(27:38) - Get Over It(31:14) - Kinds of Grief(35:21) - Close
--Credits--Hosted by Lisa Austin and Trudy Callaghan
Produced by Odvod Media
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen
Original music by Darrin Hagen
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A beautiful and deeply moving conversation, this episode is Trudy’s story of losing her husband. For those who are acquainted with grief and for those who’ve yet to face the death of someone they love, this is one crone’s vulnerable recounting of the days leading up to a life changing loss.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
Quote from Anne Lamott:
“If you haven’t already, you will lose someone you can’t live without, and your heart will be badly broken, and you never get over the loss of a deeply beloved person. But this is the good news. The person lives forever, in your broken heart that doesn’t seal back up. And you come through, and you learn to dance with the banged-up heart. You dance to the absurdities of life; you dance to the minuet of old friendships.”
In the episode, Trudy mentions that this is the quote they read at a monument near Christchurch in New Zealand. The quote was printed on a temporary sign, which her husband took a picture of.
We found that this quote appears differently across various online posts. We were unable to determine the original text for the quote, and so have shared the one Trudy has come to know from her husband’s photograph.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(02:03) - An Invisible Shawl(05:52) - Bearing Witness(19:32) - Record of Days(29:48) - Gathering(37:57) - Close--References--
Hall, Emory. (2023). Metabolism. made of rivers. Three Rivers Publishing. Boulder, CO. USA.Emory Hall and Trevor Hall created an audio version of select poems from the made of rivers anthology, and you can find that on YouTube at this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QcZuTpv42I
--Credit--
Hosted by Lisa Austin and Trudy CallaghanProduced by Odvod Media
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen
Original music by Darrin Hagen
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“Purpose” is an audacious idea that purports to shape our lives. We’re not so sure about that. We put our thinking faces on and take a look at the purpose we decide for ourselves, the purpose others discover in us, and whether this whole “purpose” thing is as singular as we’ve been told.
Read our blog: CroneCast.ca
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(01:53) - Flummoxed by Purpose(06:20) - One or Many(13:54) - Unique Contributions(20:22) - Stay Present(25:08) - Close
--Credits—Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen
Original music by Darrin Hagen
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Robin Pacific is a Canadian writer and visual artist. She is a highly credentialed, single malt drinking Anglican socialist. And she is a crone. Embodying all that and more, Robin joins us in a thought-provoking discussion about identity, grief and creativity.
See Robin Pacific’s work: https://www.robinpacific.ca/
Check out our blog: CroneCast.ca
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters–
(00:00) - Intro(04:04) - Collage(09:35) - Words + Images(15:30) - Grief Speak(18:36) - Dayne(24:14) - Naked(28:48) - Seasons(31:23) - Ephemeral(34:59) - Transformative(40:16) - Close--References--
Pacific, Robin. (2024) Skater Girl, An Archeology of the Self. Guernica Editions. Gananoque, ON, CAN.
--Credits—
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media.
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen.
Original music by Darrin Hagen.
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Since posting our “Stuff of Life” episode, we’ve been thinking more about how a life can be depicted in things. Our friend, Jane Bisbee, joins us to further celebrate the joy and history of the treasures we collect and what happens when it’s time to let them go.
Check out our blog at CroneCast.ca.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(03:39) - Interesting Things(08:22) - Stewardship(12:46) - Layers(16:49) - Pass It On(23:23) - Destinations(33:03) - Photos(38:17) - Treasures(41:09) - Close
--References--1. Peter Pauper Press. (2015) I’m Dead, Now What! Planner. Peter Pauper Press. Rye Brook, NY, U.S.
2. Find. https://findedmonton.com/
--Credits—Hosted by Lisa Austin and Trudy Callaghan
Produced by Odvod Media.
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen.
Original music by Darrin Hagen.
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Bucket lists are tricky. They can help explore dreams and desires to fulfill in a lifetime. They can also become a list of to-dos before death, shaping expectations about the future. We talk about these lists in the face of limited time, and celebrate the journey of becoming.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(00:35) - Time (07:27) - Opportunity(10:36) - Self Acceptance(15:14) - Living Ahead(19:16) - Doing Your Best(22:52) - Integrity(28:44) - Becoming(32:15) - Close
--References-- Reiner, R. (2007). The Bucket List [Film]. Warner Bros. Zadan/Meron Productions. Two Ton Films. Castle Rock Entertainment. Storyline Entertainment.Ferguson, Melanie. “The Case For Bucket Lists: Busting Myths and Changing Mindsets” [Blog Post]. postcardsandplaces.com. January 4, 2024.Ufuoma, Jessica. “How Ditching My Bucket List Has Helped Me Travel More” [Blog Post]. theufuoma.com. November 17, 2017.Ware, Bronnie. (2011) The Top Five Regrets of the Dying: A Life Transformed by the Dearly Departed.” BalboaPress. Bloomington, IN.Nouwen, Henri J.M. (1992) The Return Of The Prodigal Son, A Story of Homecoming. Doubleday. New York, NY.--Credits—
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media.
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen.
Original music by Darrin Hagen.
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Inspired by listener email, we talk about what to do with all the “stuff” we acquire through our lives. The stuff we cherish, the stuff that anchors us and the stuff that holds the memories of those we love.
We don’t have all the answers, we want to hear from you! Send us your thoughts at https://cronecast.ca/contact.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(01:53) - Archivists(06:07) - Touchstones(12:24) - Home Finding(15:57) - Intentional Purpose(20:00) - Hold Them(24:12) - Honour Them(30:03) - Enjoy(35:42) - Close--References--
Walsh, Peter. (2006) It’s All Too Much: An Easy Plan for Living a Richer Life with Less Stuff. Free Press. New York, U.S.Walsh, Peter. (2017) Let it Go: Downsizing Your Way to a Richer, Happier Life. Rodale Books. Pennsylvania, U.S.
--Credits—Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media.
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen.
Original music by Darrin Hagen.
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Don’t die before you’re dead. Others might say it’s time to get out of the way to make space for someone younger, but not us. We crones can support younger generations and keep living our own lives to the fullest.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
Oliver, Mary. (1990). The Summer Day. In House of Light. Beacon Press. Boston, MA.Alfred, Lord Tennyson. (1922). Ulysses. Poetry Foundation.Chin, J. (Director). Vasarhelyi, E.C. (Director). (2023). Nyad [Film]. Black Bear. Mad Chance. Zurich Avenue.
(00:00) - Intro(00:49) - Someone Else’s Time(07:48) - Wild + Precious(14:43) - Finite Beings(20:35) - Exit Cues(22:36) - Close
--References----Credits—
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media.
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen.
Original music by Darrin Hagen.
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Falling down hurts - literally and figuratively. It hurts the body, it hurts one’s dignity, and it reveals our total lack of control over the world around us. Come compare bruises, metaphorical and real.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
Bolen, Jean Shinoda. (2003) Crones Don't Whine: Concentrated Wisdom for Juicy Women. Conari Press. Massachusetts, US.Cloud, Henry. (2006) Integrity: The Courage to Meet the Demands of Reality. Harper Business. California, US.Milton, J. (1673). Sonnet 19: When I consider how my light is spent. https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44750/sonnet-19-when-i-consider-how-my-light-is-spent
(00:00) - Intro(01:03) - Don’t Avert Your Eyes(05:52) - Oof! (09:46) - “Cast” (12:17) - Face It(14:50) - The Wind Down(18:46) - What will I want?(22:27) - Close
--References----Credits—
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media.
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen.
Original music by Darrin Hagen.
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Don’t avert your eyes! We crones look at the hard stuff head-on. It takes courage, curiosity and grit. Muster your inner-crone as we look life (and the mirror) in the eye.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(00:46) - Crones Don’t Whine(05:19) - Gravity and Perspective(12:03) - Acquired Knowledge(15:32) - I Don’t Want No Satisfaction(22:28) - Unexpected Wisdom(25:12) - Close--References--
Bolen, Jean Shinoda. (2003) Crones Don't Whine: Concentrated Wisdom for Juicy Women. Conari Press. Massachusetts, US.
--Credits—Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media.
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen.
Original music by Darrin Hagen.
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Crones. Crones everywhere. We talk about how to recognize the crones in our world, whether passing by in good, technical footwear or being a caring constant in our lives. Let's discover the crones around us and seek their wisdom.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(01:28) - Fully Formed(07:43) - Archetypes(10:22) - Victoria(13:34) - Are You a Crone?(23:39) - Close--References--
Bolen, Jean Shinoda. (2003) Crones Don't Whine: Concentrated Wisdom for Juicy Women. Conari Press. Massachusetts, US.
--Credits—Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media.
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen.
Original music by Darrin Hagen.
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Relationships change over time, and so do personal values and needs. At a certain stage in life, there’s no time for passivity. Special guest, Sandra Carl, joins us in embracing “cronage”, finding new friendships and staying in the fray.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(01:04) - Friendship(06:08) - Winnowing(09:09) - Love is Expandable(12:07) - Stay in the Fray(15:40) - Correcting the Record(16:39) - Be Curious(21:38) - We’re Listening(23:19) - Close
--Credits—Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media.
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen.
Original music by Darrin Hagen.
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Honing Crone Intuition
Take a deep dive with us into honing crone intuition. Jump in as we face the world as it is, good stuff and bad, all while avoiding the cynicism-trap.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(00:46) - Time(04:25) - Repetition(09:00) - Trauma (15:46) - Practice(22:32) - Discernment vs. Cynicism (25:32) - Close--Credits—
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media.
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen.
Original music by Darrin Hagen.
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Do you trust your intuition? We revisit some hard moments where our bodies may have been trying to tell us something, and discuss how getting it wrong taught us how to get it right Later on.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(00:45) - “Juicy”(05:13) - Becoming You(09:41) - Intuition(11:18) - A Ride Home (16:30) - Feel it(19:19) - Trust It(22:04) - Use It(27:35) - A Lower Grade (32:05) - Listen (32:57) - Close--References--
Bolen, Jean Shinoda. (2003) Crones Don't Whine: Concentrated Wisdom for Juicy Women. Conari Press. Massachusetts, US.--Credits—
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen
Original music by Darrin Hagen
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Come with us as we discuss our relationship to the words that describe older women and delve into the nuance of defining oneself in a world that tries to judge us as all good or all bad: The wise woman vs. the terrible mother. We embrace our complexity and lived experience. We decide that we can be who we are. Unabashedly and amazingly.
Read Trudy and Lisa's Bios: CroneCast.ca
Read this show's blog at CroneCast.ca for in-depth thoughts on topics covered in this episode.
Share your questions and comments at https://cronecast.ca/contact. We want to hear from you about all things crone.
--Chapters--
(00:00) - Intro(01:06) - Maiden, Mother, Crone(07:48) - The Passing of Knowledge(11:17) - The Terrible Mother(14:50) - Be Amazingly Who You Are(20:40) - Generosity(23:13) - Close--References--
Conway, D. J., (1994) Maiden, Mother, Crone: The Myth & Reality of the Triple Goddess. Llewellyn Publications. Minnesota, US.Glennon, Doyle. (2020) Untamed. The Dial Press. New York, US.--Credits—
Hosted by Trudy Callaghan and Lisa Austin
Produced by Odvod Media
Audio Engineering by Steve Glen
Original music by Darrin Hagen
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