Episodes
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we pull from the archive to listen to a conference talk by Fr. Richard Rohr in 2006. Father Richard, a Franciscan friar and ecumenical teacher, talks in his endnote about the transformational work of the Enneagram and the notion of higher consciousness. He explores if the Enneagram is a private spirituality or if there are any social or political directions.
Connect with us:
Web: internationalenneagram.org
2025 IEA Global Conference: internationalenneagram.org/2025-iea-global-conference
Join the email list: [email protected]
IEA Conference Proposal Submission Information & Guidelines: internationalenneagram.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/2025-Proposal-Submission-Information-Guidelines.pdf
IEA Global Podcast Proposal Submission Form: forms.gle/Q48QXSwQ3zDfDJaJA
Richard Rohr:
Web: cac.org
X: @RichardRohrOFM
Book: The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we continue listening to the talk by Dr. Dan Siegel and the late Dr. David Daniels about attachment theory–the importance of seeking closeness between infants and their parents–in the Enneagram. They speak to a group of parents and have them describe each Enneagram type’s parenting style based on small group work, their strengths and weaknesses, and at times asking them about their specific family situations.
Connect with us:
Web: internationalenneagram.org
2025 IEA Global Conference: internationalenneagram.org/2025-iea-global-conference
Join the email list: [email protected]
IEA Conference Proposal Submission Information & Guidelines: internationalenneagram.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/2025-Proposal-Submission-Information-Guidelines.pdf
IEA Global Podcast Proposal Submission Form: forms.gle/Q48QXSwQ3zDfDJaJA
Dr. David Daniels:
Web: drdaviddaniels.com
Web: narrativeenneagram.org
Dr. Dan Siegel:
Web: drdansiegel.com
Web: mindsightinstitute.com
FB: Dr. Dan Siegel
IG: @drdansiegel
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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Missing episodes?
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we pull from the archives and listen to a talk from 2005 by Dr. Dan Siegel and the late Dr. David Daniels about the attachment theory in the Enneagram. Attachment theory is the importance of seeking closeness to another human, in this case, the early relationships between infants and their parents. Dr. Daniels and Dr. Siegel discusses the attachment styles within this theory—a topic that has grown in popularity–and how it works with the different Enneagram types.
Connect with us:
Web: internationalenneagram.org
2025 IEA Global Conference: internationalenneagram.org/2025-iea-global-conference
Join the email list: [email protected]
IEA Conference Proposal Submission Information & Guidelines: internationalenneagram.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/2025-Proposal-Submission-Information-Guidelines.pdf
IEA Global Podcast Proposal Submission Form: forms.gle/Q48QXSwQ3zDfDJaJA
Dr. David Daniels:
Web: drdaviddaniels.com
Web: narrativeenneagram.org
Dr. Dan Siegel:
Web: drdansiegel.com
Web: mindsightinstitute.com
FB: Dr. Dan Siegel
IG: @drdansiegel
Book: Parenting from the Inside Out
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we continue the talk by Russ Hudson and the late Don Richard Riso about psychic structures from the IEA Global Conference in 1994. Psychic structures are the schematic models that help us visualize the dynamics for each Enneagram type, and Russ and Don use Enneagram Types Six and Nine as examples.
Connect with us:
Web: internationalenneagram.org
2025 IEA Global Conference: internationalenneagram.org/2025-iea-global-conference
Join the email list: [email protected]
IEA Conference Proposal Submission Information & Guidelines: internationalenneagram.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/2025-Proposal-Submission-Information-Guidelines.pdf
IEA Global Podcast Proposal Submission Form: forms.gle/Q48QXSwQ3zDfDJaJA
Russ Hudson:
Web: russhudson.com
Web: enneagraminstitute.com
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we dig into the archives and present a talk by Russ Hudson and the late Don Richard Riso from the first IEA Global Conference in 1994. With the theme for this year’s conference being “Honoring Pioneers and Future Frontiers,” we hear from some of the founders as they discuss psychic structures, the schematic models that help us visualize the dynamics for each Enneagram type. In this first part of the talk, Russ and Don start with Enneagram Type Three.
Connect with us:
Web: internationalenneagram.org
2025 IEA Global Conference: internationalenneagram.org/2025-iea-global-conference
Join the email list: [email protected]
IEA Conference Proposal Submission Information & Guidelines: internationalenneagram.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/2025-Proposal-Submission-Information-Guidelines.pdf
IEA Global Podcast Proposal Submission Form: forms.gle/Q48QXSwQ3zDfDJaJA
Russ Hudson:
Web: russhudson.com
Web: enneagraminstitute.com
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, Adelaida Harrison, Seth "Creek" Creekmore, Milton Stewart and Patrick Simonsen talk about the 2025 IEA Global Conference, which will take place July 25-27 in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Milton, Conference Chair, previews what to expect as IEA celebrates 30 years with this year’s theme, “Honoring Pioneers and Future Frontiers,” and the opportunities to connect with others around the Enneagram.
Connect with us:
Web: internationalenneagram.org
2025 IEA Global Conference: internationalenneagram.org/2025-iea-global-conference
Join the email list: [email protected]
IEA Conference Proposal Submission Information & Guidelines: internationalenneagram.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/2025-Proposal-Submission-Information-Guidelines.pdf
IEA Global Podcast Proposal Submission Form: forms.gle/Q48QXSwQ3zDfDJaJA
Adelaida Harrison:
Web: enneagramcenter.com.mx
Radio show: Eneagrama Conócete
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Milton Stewart:
IG: @kaizencareers
Web: KaizenCareers.com
Web: Kaizen Enneagram Academy
Pod: Do It For The Gram: An Enneagram Podcast
Patrick Simonsen:
Web: nordiccoach.dk
Web: IEA Denmark
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, Patrick Simonsen, from IEA Denmark, speaks with Karl Hebenstreit, an executive coach, author, speaker, leadership/team/organization development consultant with more than 25 years of experience. Karl talks about his books, starting with his most recent, Explicit Expectations: The Essential Guide & Toolkit of Management Fundamentals, that explores why we should treat others the way they want to be treated, rather than how we want to be treated. It also discusses how the Enneagram can develop from the Golden Rule to the Platinum Rule which can be integrated towards a more robust world. Karl also talks about his children’s book, Nina & The Really, Really Tough Decision, which gives an introduction to the Enneagram through the lens of decision making and his other book, The How and Why: Taking Care of Business with the Enneagram, which shares how leaders can improve their leadership skills through the Enneagram.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Karl Hebenstreit:
Web: performandfunction.com
Book: Explicit Expectations: The Essential Guide & Toolkit of Management Fundamentals
Book: The How and Why: Taking Care of Business with the Enneagram
Book: Nina & The Really, Really Tough Decision
Patrick Simonsen:
Web: nordiccoach.dk
Web: IEA Denmark
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we share the second part of Sandra Maitri’s talk from 2017 about using the Enneagram as a tool for growth. Sandra talks more in depth about the practice of inquiry to question our basic assumptions for each Enneagram type. Each Enneagram type has fundamental qualities and reactive tendencies to our behavioral problems. Sandra shares why we need to be present with all three centers of intelligence so that we can inquiry effectively.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Sandra Maitri:
Web: sandramaitri.com
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we pull from our 2017 archives to feature a talk by Sandra Maitri about the history of the Enneagram and how to understand the Enneagram as a tool for growth that describes a pattern our consciousness takes. In this first part of her talk, Sandra talks about her experience with the Enneagram to remind us that it is a map but doesn’t tell you how to travel the territory, but rather teaches us how to work with our ego structure, rather than move beyond it.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Sandra Maitri:
Web: sandramaitri.com
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we present the second half of Leslie Hershberger’s presentation on her approach to the centers. She shares an excerpt from a panel that explores the heart center and its core function of doing as well as discusses the body center and its dominant function of feelings. She also gives tips on how to pay attention to your patterns and all three centers.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Leslie Hershberger:
Web: lesliehershberger.com
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we take a break from our usual content and share some archival discussions from conferences and what we think is a great fit. This week is the first part of Leslie Hershberger’s presentation on her unique approach to the centers. She walks us through her research project that studies the centers and understands the functions for the different centers and conducts an experiment for us to learn how we experience ourselves and other people.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Leslie Hershberger:
Web: lesliehershberger.com
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Milton Stewart, founder of Kaizen Careers, Coaching and Consulting LLC and creator of the podcast "Do It For the Gram: An Enneagram Podcast." As a member of the IEA Global Board of Directors, Milton shares his thoughts on the IEA Conference compared to previous years, reflecting on some of his favorite moments. He also discusses what’s next for the global community as they interweave these sparks of great ideas and innovations to grow and do better.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Milton Stewart:
Web: KaizenCareers.com
IG: @doitforthegrampodcast
IG: @kaizencareers
Pod: Do It For The Gram: An Enneagram Podcast
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Vanessa Fernandez, a coach and somatic practitioner who explores the intersections of identity in relation to Enneagram work. She explores the things that no one tells you when you start doing this Enneagram work and some of the support that can help as you are faced with the period of actual transformation.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Vanessa Fernandez:
Web: theenneagramworkshop.com
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Anne Geary, founder of The Enneagram Approach. Anne explains her unique approach of combining the powerful tool of the Enneagram map with the pragmatic process of the 12-Steps of Recovery. She shares her personal story of recovery that led her to this work and how this unique approach can help us do the deep work.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Anne Geary:
Web: enneagramapproach.com
IG: @enneagramapproach
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Elisabeth Wurm, a theater director and Enneagram teacher from St. Louis. Elisabeth discusses the overlap between improv and the Enneagram as they are both ego work. Each Enneagram type has a false personality, or ego, that will try to get in the way, and Elisabeth shares how improv can bring out the ego but also help work through that.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Elisabeth Wrum:
Web: notjustenneacoach.com
IG: @survival_thrival
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Rev. Nhien Vuong, an Enneagram thought leader, spiritual mentor, and founder of Evolving Enneagram, a community-centered organization whose mission is to transform human ecosystems around the globe using a contemplative, wholeness-based approach to our individual and collective awakening. Rev. Nhien talks about the session she facilitated at the IEA Conference about sex and the Enneagram and hosted by the Enneagram & Sexuality Enneagroup. She shares what inspired her to participate in this topic and some of the main takeaways participants took away from the sessions.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Rev. Nhien Vuong:
Web: evolvingenneagram.com
IG: @evolvingenneagram
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Stephanie J. Spencer, an executive coach and Enneagram guide. Stephanie talks about her story with the Enneagram and what inspired her to explore it through the heart rather than the mind. Using imagery, she shares how nature is grounding for her and can help us see ourselves more, which she discusses in depth in her book, “Out of the Box & Into the Wild: An Enneagram Journey Through the Triads of Nature.”
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Stephanie J. Spencer:
Web: stephaniejspencer.com
IG: @stephanie_j_spencer
Book: Out of the Box & Into the Wild: An Enneagram Journey Through the Triads of Nature
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Dr. Deborah Egerton and Dr. Robert Holden, both also known as Dr. E and Dr. R respectively, about their friendship and the idea work they collaborate through the Enneagram. They also talk about coming to a place of understanding to bring us back to love. This can be accomplished through conversations and kind spaces so we can have an exchange of thoughts rather than a debate.
Connect with us:
IEA2023.com
Dr. Debra Egerton:
Web: deborahegerton.com
Book: Know Justice Know Peace: A Transformative Journey of Social Justice, Anti-Racism, and Healing through the Power of the Enneagram
Dr. Robert Holden
Web: robertholden.com
Seth "Creek" Creekmore:
IG: @_creekmore
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast
Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B
Seth Abram:
IG: @integratedenneagram
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lindsey Davis Marks:
IG: @lindseyfaithdm
Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast
Lee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
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Here’s Part 2 of Revisiting Ego & Essence. In this episode we continue to have a deep and meaningful conversation with enneagram legends Russ Hudson and Mario Sikora on these often used, often misunderstood concepts.
Lee Fields joins the Fathoms crew for this conversation, which always makes us better.
[2:00] How can we move forward with these terms despite the issues?
[13:05] Ego & Essence as bypassing
[19:05] It’s about the process, not a destination
[24:00] Individuality, Mutuality, & Unity in relation to ego and essence
[31:35] Russ’ and Mario’s closing remarks for people using the enneagram
[35:40] The Fathoms Cohosts provide their initial reactions to the conversation
[45:05] How we’ll use the terms “ego” & “essence” moving forward
[60:00] Abram shares a story
[1:01:00] Linz hands out podcast awards to the guys
[1:05:30] Why we do this podcast
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Brought to you by:
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
The Enneagram Letters: A Poetic Exploration of Who You Thought You Had to Be
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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew Moser
Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore
Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdmLee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
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Learn More About the International Enneagram Association
Web: https://www.internationalenneagram.org/
Events: https://ieaninepoints.com/
IG: @ieaenneagram
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Today we have the pleasure of reposting an episode from our friends from the Fathoms podcast. The Fathoms crew sat down at the 2023 IEA conference to have a deep and meaningful conversation with enneagram legends Russ Hudson and Mario Sikora on the often used and often misunderstood concepts, Ego and Essence.
Joining the Fathoms crew is, Lee Fields, which always makes it better.
[1:00] A quick recap of Fathoms season 4
[5:30] We talk about (and cringe a bit) our Season 1 episode on Ego & Essence
[12:30] Lindsey’s thoughts about the first episode as a listener
[14:15] Our thoughts behind ending the season with the topic of Ego & Essence
[18:50] Some tips listening to this conversation with Russ & Mario
[23:00] Our conversation with Russ & Mario begins
[25:15] What’s the conversation we need to have today about ego & essence?
[27:45] Having beginner’s mind with ego & essence?
[28:50] Russ & Mario’s first meeting…and first impressions!
[30:45] Their common fascination with zombies
[32:50] What Russ and Mario admire about each other’s enneagram work
[35:45] Russ and Mario’s definition of “ego” and “essence”
[45:00] Examples of how they’ve changed their minds on ego and essence
[55:30] How Mario interprets Russ’ view of ego and essence
[1:00:00] Russ on “essence”
[1:08:00] Mario’s problems with the term “essence”
[1:11:45] Why are still using these words in these ways?
[1:18:45] Lindsey pushes back a bit
Stay tuned for Part 2 of our conversation with Russ & Mario next week!
—
Brought to you by:
Aephoria Partners:
Web: aephoriapartners.com
FB: Aephoria Partners Consulting
The Enneagram Letters: A Poetic Exploration of Who You Thought You Had to Be
—
Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew Moser
Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore
Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdmLee Fields:
Web: enneagrammatic.com
IG: @enneagrammatic
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Learn More About the International Enneagram Association
Web: https://www.internationalenneagram.org/
Events: https://ieaninepoints.com/
IG: @ieaenneagram
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