Episodes
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In episode no. 90, my guest is Bridgette Toy-Cronin, Director, Civil Justice Centre,
The access to justice issues in Aotearoa New Zealand; Key aims of the ‘Wayfinding for civil justice’ project; How the project commenced at the start of the pandemic with a hui; The other jurisdictions the working group looked to for guidance on this project; How the project is doing two related but different things at the same time; Factors peculiar to Aotearoa New Zealand that are facilitating the entire process; The diversity of the working group, and which organisations have made submissions to the consultation process; Early findings about what will assist going forward; Funding sources for this stakeholder-led strategy, and for the recommendations; Gaps that have been identified through this work; Different approaches to legal innovation in Aotearoa New Zealand; The intersection of customary Māori law and the mainstream justice system; How Māori principles are influencing procedure including process in the District Court, mediation and dispute resolution; How ‘innovation’ and ‘technology’ are often conflated; and Bridgette’s definition of legal innovation.
Co-Director, Otago Centre for Law and Society and Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Law, University of Otago. We cover:
Proudly sponsored by Neota!Links:
Wayfinding for Civil Justice Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust ProjectAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 89 my guest is Fiona Kirkman, CEO and co-founder of FamilyProperty. We cover:
The functionality of expert system FamilyProperty that Fiona and her co-founder (husband!) Tim developed; The journey of FamilyProperty from an idea to MVP, to market, to acquisition; The integration of FamilyProperty with global practice management software, Smokeball bringing the ‘business of law’ together with effective delivery of legal advice; How technology is always changing and the need for ongoing maintenance (especially when court forms change!); The importance of beta testing and accurate data mapping; Benefits of this use of technology for lawyers and clients; What it is about the people that adopt these new methodologies and the organisations in which they work, including their size and what that means for change management; The impact of the pandemic on the legal industry; Where you fit on ‘the innovative scale’; The importance of understanding users’ pain points and how technology can assist with that, as well as empower the professionals to do more of the ‘human work’; Plans for scaling and expansion of FamilyProperty in the USA; Unexpected uses of the financial aspects of FamilyProperty and a model that Legal Aid is piloting; Constraints that Fiona and Tim have come up against recently; The importance of confidentiality and cybersecurity; Fiona’s 3 passions and how they relate to her numerous roles; What lawyers will need to be effective mediators in the future; What is the ‘resolution revolution’?; The importance of collaborative practice and multidisciplinary input; When Fiona became comfortable with being labelled an ‘innovator’; What she is most proud of along the journey of both joys and challenges; How technology is an enabler of access to justice; and Fiona’s definition of legal innovation.
Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic!Links:
Family Property Smokeball Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project Survey Future Ready Regional and Rural Legal ConferenceAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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Missing episodes?
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In episode no. 88, my guest is Nicolas Patrick, Partner, Head of Responsible Business, DLA Piper. We cover:
Nic’s views on the potential of technology; The reason for DLA Piper holding a forum on technology and access to justice in 2019; The problem with digitising existing processes; Why an international law firm without family law expertise, supports a Sydney based non-profit family law firm; The way Wallumatta Legal operates and how it runs an efficient practice; How pro bono provides insight into areas of unmet legal need;
The different contributions that Macquarie University and DLA Piper bring to Wallumatta Legal; What technology is used for at Wallumatta Legal and the software it relies upon; Why Nic isn’t concerned about the digital divide in the context of Wallumatta Legal given all its services are delivered online; How Wallumatta Legal will improve access to justice across the sector; Why they recruit a ‘different kind of lawyer’ at Wallumatta Legal; The biggest challenge in the first six months of the firm’s operations; Plans for scaling and expansion of this model into other jurisdictions and areas of law; Why Nic thinks that there aren’t more low bono or alternative models servicing the needs of people at the lower end of the legal market; The potential for regulatory reform to facilitate technology use and other models to improve justice outcomes for marginalised people; The opportunity for firms to collaborate and establish a network of low bono and not-for-profit law firms; and Nic’s definition of legal innovation.
Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic!Links:
Wallumatta Legal Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project Survey Future Ready Regional and Rural Legal ConferenceAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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This is the third episode in a 3-part series about justice entrepreneurship.
Part 1 provides an overview of justice entrepreneurship - 3 categories of justice entrepreneurship with real examples from each of the categories and the problem solved.
Part 2 covers 5 key factors to maximise the likelihood of success of your justice innovation. You might be surprised to hear about some of them!
And now in part 3, we look at funding options and some of their pro’s and con’s.
Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
Landers Village Capital Grant connect Grant search Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project SurveyAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 86 I had the pleasure of speaking with John Lord, Co-founder and Chairman of long term sponsor of the podcast, Neota (formerly Neota Logic).
We discuss:
What John wants the world to know about no-code and why; Some unintended consequences of no-code including hybrid working models; How no-code supports the democratisation of information in both commercial and public interest contexts; The areas of law that are suited to apps, what can be built, and how they help; The scope of opportunity for legal technology both in terms of market and career choices; The genesis of the university program that Neota now operates in 18 universities around the world and its involvement with pro bono; Outcomes from university ‘Law Apps’ courses including an example of how Neota’s technology resulted in homes being repaired in a remote Aboriginal community; How an app assists people to have criminal records expunged in the United States; The meaning and relevance of the name ‘Neota’; and John’s definition of legal innovation.
Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic!Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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This is the second episode in a 3-part series about justice entrepreneurship.
Episode 3 was an overview of justice entrepreneurship - the types of issues justice entrepreneurs work on, the 3 categories of justice entrepreneurship with real examples from each of the categories.
This episode covers 5 key factors to maximise the likelihood of success of your justice innovation. You might be surprised to hear about some of them!
Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
Justice Entrepreneurship Artificial Lawyer Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project SurveyAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 83 I speak with Co-founder, CEO and General Counsel of Turnsignl, Jazz Hampton. We discuss:
The problem that prompted the creation of TurnSignl and how Jazz and his co-founders knew it was the right time to act; The professional backgrounds of the three black founders; What Turnsigl does and how it works to protect civil rights at scale; How Turnsignl gets to the people who need it (it’s an interesting approach); The product’s similarity to roadside assistance programs or an insurance policy; Turnsignl’s partners across different sectors; Why Jazz describes the users as the ‘3 P’s’; How to know if Turnsignl is working; Power imbalances that exist in civil and criminal law contexts; How Jazz considers Turnsingl provides mental health support; Turnsignl’s technology resources and funding model; The difference working in a team when you’re responsible for their salaries; Whether you should consider your employees as family; Biggest challenges as a justice entrepreneur especially growing a two-sided marketplace; Something that justice entrepreneurs shouldn’t be nervous about; Why you don’t need a non-profit vehicle to make a difference (and why a business model might be more suitable); Attributes that gave Jazz the confidence to move from practising law to the becoming an entrepreneur; Insight into his work ethic; Something unique about the foundation for Turnsignl’s work; What is ‘moving at the speed of trust’; and Jazz’s definition of legal innovation!Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
TurnSignl Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project SurveyAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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Episode no. 83 is the first episode in a 3-part series about justice entrepreneurship.
This episode covers:
What is justice entrepreneurship? What are the types of issues justice entrepreneurs work on? The 3 categories of justice entrepreneurship Real examples from each of the categories A question to you about what motivates law firm owners? What’s coming up including an interview with a passionate justice entrepreneur and more short solo episodes on how to activate justice entrepreneurshipProudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
Justice Entrepreneurship Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project SurveyAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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Episode no. 82 is about “Law Labs”.
In Part 1, I cover:
What is a Law Lab and where and why were they set up? What kinds of issues or projects do Law Labs work on? Who are the key stakeholders and the benefits they receive (should I establish one)?Part 2 is all about:
4 things you need for a viable Law Lab (in under 4 minutes!)Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
Institutionalizing Legal Innovation: The (Re)Emergence of the Law Lab Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project SurveyAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 81 my guest is Brian Tang, Founding Executive director of LITE Lab@HKU and Co-chair, Asia-Pacific Legal Innovation & Technology Association (ALITA). We discuss:
Career path (which will be interesting to law students); How he became involved with innovation in the law in Hong Kong; Main justice issues in Hong Kong; What LITE stands for, and why it is intentionally a “Lab”; How the Lab works with students from 6 out of the 10 faculties at Hong Kong University; Topics and the experiential experiences that are covered in the Lab’s courses and why; How LITE Lab partners with tech start-ups, NGOs and in-house counsel to co-design research projects; Examples of the innovative projects including workers compensation, low-income tenants, discrimination, womens’ rights, human trafficking and foreign workers; Cultural foundations of ‘pro bono’ and differences in approach across the world; Capacity and evolution of NGOs affecting their response to implement technology; Why Brian considers the LITE Lab a ‘marketplace’ of sorts; The criticism that undergrad courses and hackathons are not effective; The potential of low code/no code, including the ability to maintain software in-house; Need for integration with existing corporate and NGO systems; Issues of funding and software sustainability of applications developed by NGOs; Impact investing, ESG requirements and social entrepreneurs’ potential for the future; Asia-Pacific Legal Innovation and Technology Association’s (“ALITA”) mission; Categories of ALITA awards (closing soon!); and Brian’s definition of legal innovation!Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
LITE Lab My employee is pregnant Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project SurveyAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 80 I discuss multidisciplinary teamwork in the context of law firms and legal tech start-ups developing products, services and projects. I cover:
An explanation of multidisciplinary collaboration and teamwork (and what it’s not); Effective and real-life examples in both a commercial and not-for-profit context; and Tips for making the most from working with a multidisciplinary team.Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project SurveyAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 79, guests Simon Goodrich, Co-founder and Luke Thomas, senior legal designer, Portable cover:
Portable’s work and its founders’ motivation to do the work it does; Simon’s journey from community radio and running a film festival to his current work; What prompted Portable’s foray into justice issues and how design and technology can leverage high value tasks and have impact; Specific justice projects including with family violence, young people, wage theft issues and Amica; Luke shares his daily activities of a legal designer; The stage of the design process that both Luke and Simon think is most critical; What Luke has learned from working on numerous projects; Why Simon thinks constraints are good, and tips on navigating them; How to determine whether an organisation will succeed with a design project; Simon’s creative ways to get around resourcing constraints to make a project happen; Whether online information, advice or dispute resolution will make the most difference; Broader actions that are required to improve people’s experience of the law; Tips for effective multidisciplinary collaboration; Approaches that lead to better design outcomes; The one thing they want you to know about Portable; and Simon and Luke’s definition of legal innovation!Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
Portable Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project SurveyAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 78, Andrea explores all things document automation. She covers:
What is document automation;
Use cases in the commercial and not-for-profit context; Factors to consider when embarking on a document automation project; What kinds of documents to automate; and How to overcome barriers to adoption of technology.Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
Document Automation - Neota Logic ‘Legal Document Automation – Measuring ROI’ by BamLegal – Artificial Lawyer Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust ProjectAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 75 I speak with Catherine Bamford, CEO & Founder of BamLegal. We cover:
BamLegal’s clients and services; The UK legal industry’s adoption of document automation; How Catherine addresses some common objections to legal technology; The relevance of time billing and fixed fee in this context; How legal technology intersects with ‘real lawyering’; Who should and shouldn’t ‘own’ a legal tech product or project; How legal technology vendors get sales pitches ‘wrong’; Catherine’s ‘why’ for leaving BigLaw and the steps that led her to create her own business; How Catherine got started with legal technology, what she’s working on now and why; Real examples of how document automation assists people with low-middle income; How point-in-time online guidance has significantly improved accuracy of UK divorce forms; Other advantages of technology for clients, lawyers and courts; Catherine’s motivation to produce ‘BamBytes’, ‘Breakfast with Bam’ and to compile innovation and technology resources for the ecosystem; Her thoughts on how the next generation of lawyers approach legal tech; Just how ‘uberised’ the legal process is right now; Her personal characteristics that suggest she would work in legal technology; The job role that was invented when she was working at Pinsent Masons; What jumping in cold rivers and rearranging beer cellars has to do with Catherine’s career; Similarities between legal analysis and computer coding; What Catherine wishes she knew when she started her business; The impact of being able to say “I’m a lawyer” when becoming a legal engineer; How Catherine structures her business to enable flexibility in her team; and Catherine’s definition of legal innovation.
Proudly sponsored by Neota LogicProudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
BamLegal Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust ProjectAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 76 I share my comments from an International Women’s Day event in Brisbane in early March, hosted by 9 University of Queensland and Queensland University of Technology clubs.
I share what breaking the bias means to me and how I apply it in practice, and a particular bias each of us possess and need to be aware of if we are to innovate and bring about social change.
Also, as the title suggests, how actress America Ferrera helps us to understand why we don’t innovate more!
Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
Your identity is your superpower International Womens Day Cocktail Evening Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust ProjectAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 75 I speak with Jason Tashea, Consultant with the World Bank and Innovation Fellow at Vanderbilt University. We discuss:
Jason’s motivation for his new project, ‘40 Futures’; the fine line between dystopian fiction and reality; Jason’s writing process and the ‘rules’ he set for himself in developing the project; ’40 Futures’ topics including technological surveillance, improper use of alerts, bio-data, digital privacy laws, automated police vehicles, use of genetic material and ‘the metitentiary’!; ‘Problem finding’ and ‘threatcasting’; the consequences and rights implications of technology or services; the principles that Jason shares that could guide development of technology; a real-world example Jason is working on with the World Bank; our short-term, quick fix approach compared to long term approaches; feeback he’s had from people outside the legal innovation community about the project; what popular TV shows like ‘Law and Order’ did for people understanding their rights; interdisciplinary collaborations to share information!! the ‘Justice Technology Association’ – mission and activities; update on changes to professional legal regulation in the USA; how to get people’s attention on these issues; Jason flipping the interview onto me; and Jason’s (non-!) definition of legal innovation.Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
’40 Futures’ Justice Tech Download newsletter Eastern State Penitentiary Historic Site Episode with Ed Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust ProjectAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 74, I continue the conversation about technology in courts from episode 73 with Dr Anne Wallace and discuss online dispute resolution “ODR”. I cover: How ODR is defined; 6 key characteristics of ODR; Advantages and disadvantages of ODR; International and Australian examples of ODR; The different forms of technology used in ODR; The volume of disputes resolved by e-commerce platforms; Whether ODR should be applied to resolve disputes at scale; How an effective ODR should be designed and what it should include; Is there a professional obligation to use ODR and in what circumstances?; and For the first time on Reimaging Justice, I answer a listener’s question!
Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
2021 Innovation Committee Report Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust ProjectAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 73 my special guest is Dr Anne Wallace, Adjunct Professor La Trobe University and Deputy Director Sir Zelman Cowen Centre. We discuss:
what first prompted Anne’s interest in technology and court processes; court innovations from the 1990’s and how those initiatives have progressed; how courts and lawyers have adapted to the pandemic; how close we are to a virtual court; advantages of audio visual links for providing evidence and what should determine whether it should be adopted more broadly; what currently informs court strategy and what should do so; court surveys and what they uncover; the potential for courts and researchers to work together to develop indicators to measure people’s experience; the potential for apps and SMS messages to assist litigants given the proliferation of mobile phone usage; automate and enable people to do preliminary work paired with intelligent assistance – CRT; the opportunity for lawyers to use technology to diversify their services and tap into the latent legal market; why the Victorian court’s response to the pandemic didn’t surprise her; courts’ awareness of the need for ‘innovation’ and the relevance of that language; how working with an architect and other disciplines provided Anne with new insights; changes in the mindset of members of the legal industry and Judges; how legal education could encourage multidisciplinary engagement; Anne’s predictions about technology in courts as we move through the pandemic; Imaginative dispute resolution in overseas jurisdictions; and Anne’s definition of legal innovation.Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic.
Links:
Wallace, A and Laster, K “Courts in Victoria, Australia, During COVID: Will Digital Innovation Stick?” International Consortium on Court Excellence International Womens Day Cocktail Evening Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust ProjectAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 72 I share with you 3 (or maybe 4!) things you should know about legal design. The episode covers:
The definition of legal design; How it differs from human-centred design and design thinking; 3 categories of legal design; Real examples of legal design in commercial and not-for-profit contexts; Some key elements of any effective legal design process; Questions to ask if you’d like to implement legal design; How legal design intersects with technology; and A special offer from me!Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
Legal Design Lab Legal design summit The Design of Everyday Things Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust ProjectAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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In episode no. 71 my guest is Principal Legal Designer, Inkling Legal Design, Sara Rayment. We discuss: Why legal design makes sense to Sara; The types of projects Inkling Legal Design work on and the common thread between them; Common characteristics of Inkling’s clients; The approach to legal design that sets Inkling apart; The diversity of skills in her law firm and design practice; What science has to do with design thinking; The challenges of managing diverse projects; How linear project management, budgets and agile approach interrelate; The most difficult aspect of working with a new client; Key elements of successful legal design for projects and the people involved; How design sprints are just one part of a project, and the importance of being able to communicate ‘the story’ to facilitate implementation; Participants’ emotional reactions to the various stages of a design sprint and how they encourage personal growth; The primary purpose of user-testing; How law students respond to design thinking; An AI tool developed by Inkling Legal Design to assist lawyers more easily adopt plain language; The lack of consistency in approach and rigour towards legal design as a discipline; and Sara’s definition of legal innovation. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic
Links:
Inkling legal design Andie Assists Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust ProjectAndrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au
Twitter - @ReimaginingJ
Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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