Episodes
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Jelena Vucinic: Why Sharing Product Ownership Leads to Better Product Results
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
The Great Product Owner: Sharing Product Ownership with the TeamIn this episode, Jelena highlights the qualities of a great Product Owner (PO) who excels by sharing product ownership with the team. This PO had deep knowledge of the product but also understood that they didn’t need to know everything. By involving the team in product decisions and creating a sense of co-ownership, the team became more engaged and motivated to deliver better results. Jelena emphasizes that this collaborative approach helps the team to fully understand customer needs and take pride in the product’s success.
The Bad Product Owner: Two Anti-Patterns, The Controller and The OrganizerJelena identifies two common anti-patterns in Product Owners: The Controller and The Organizer. The Controller tries to make every decision, leading to a bottleneck and stifling team creativity. On the other hand, The Organizer focuses more on coordination and administration but lacks a deep understanding of the product. This PO is often disconnected from the team’s efforts and the product vision. Jelena suggests fostering better collaboration and encouraging Product Owners to involve the team in decision-making processes, particularly through practices like mobbing, which can help integrate the PO more closely with the team and the product.
About Jelena Vucinic
Jelena is a self-conscious perfectionist and an everlasting optimist. She is deeply curious about the way people interact. After listening attentively, she likes to ask open questions that often help to reflect and improve collaboration. Jelena believes that every single person makes a difference, and she is dedicated to helping teams and leaders unlock their potential.
You can link with Jelena Vucinic on LinkedIn. -
Jelena Vucinic: How Agile Team Satisfaction and Value Delivery Define Scrum Master Success
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
In this episode, Jelena shares her approach to measuring success as a Scrum Master by focusing on two key areas: team satisfaction and value delivery. She emphasizes the importance of discussing these metrics with the team, gauging engagement levels, and reflecting on factors like time-to-market and throughput. Jelena encourages Scrum Masters to consider using net promoter scores as a way to evaluate their impact.
Self-reflection Question: How can you help your team define and measure success in a meaningful way? Leave your answer in the comments, let’s get this conversation started!
Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Uncover the Stinky FishJelena shares a retrospective format known as "Uncover the Stinky Fish," designed to help teams address underlying issues that are not being openly discussed. This format is especially useful in conflict resolution but requires a safe environment for it to be effective. Jelena emphasizes the need for personalization in retrospectives, tailoring the approach to the context and encouraging empathy and connection among team members.
About Jelena Vucinic
Jelena is a self-conscious perfectionist and an everlasting optimist. She is deeply curious about the way people interact. After listening attentively, she likes to ask open questions that often help to reflect and improve collaboration. Jelena believes that every single person makes a difference, and she is dedicated to helping teams and leaders unlock their potential.
You can link with Jelena Vucinic on LinkedIn. -
Missing episodes?
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Jelena Vucinic: Leading Change in a Large Scaled Agile Organization
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Jelena shares her experience leading change in a large scaled agile organization with 200 engineering teams. The change involved restructuring roles, connecting teams closer to customers, and a significant mindset shift. Jelena emphasizes the importance of introducing changes slowly, being transparent, and keeping communication open. She highlights the need to empower leaders with tools and support while collecting continuous feedback throughout the process.
Self-reflection Question: What steps can you take to ensure that change initiatives are sustainable in your organization? Leave your answer in the comments, let’s get this conversation started!
About Jelena Vucinic
Jelena is a self-conscious perfectionist and an everlasting optimist. She is deeply curious about the way people interact. After listening attentively, she likes to ask open questions that often help to reflect and improve collaboration. Jelena believes that every single person makes a difference, and she is dedicated to helping teams and leaders unlock their potential.
You can link with Jelena Vucinic on LinkedIn. -
Jelena Vucinic: The Pitfalls of Relying on Key Individuals in Agile Teams
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
In this episode, Jelena discusses a team of six that became heavily reliant on two highly capable individuals. Their eagerness to deliver results quickly created a bottleneck, as the two individuals began to own critical components of the project. Over time, this led to increased pressure and eventual conflict. Jelena reflects on how to manage situations where individuals may unintentionally dominate the team's workflow, and how team dynamics can be affected when key members are overburdened.
Self-reflection Question: How can you identify and address over-dependence on key individuals in your team? Leave your answer in the comments, let’s get this conversation started!
Featured Book of the Week: Dare to Lead by Brené BrownJelena recommends Dare to Lead by Brené Brown, a book that encourages leaders to adopt a courageous, growth-oriented mindset. The focus is on leading with empathy and vulnerability, showing up for your teams, and creating a supportive environment that helps foster collaboration and creativity. Jelena finds this book valuable as it aligns with her belief that empathetic leadership leads to better outcomes and a stronger connection within teams.
About Jelena Vucinic
Jelena is a self-conscious perfectionist and an everlasting optimist. She is deeply curious about the way people interact. After listening attentively, she likes to ask open questions that often help to reflect and improve collaboration. Jelena believes that every single person makes a difference, and she is dedicated to helping teams and leaders unlock their potential.
You can link with Jelena Vucinic on LinkedIn. -
Jelena Vucinic: The Power of Asking for Help During Difficult Workshops
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
In this episode, Jelena shares a challenging story of facilitating a large internal workshop in Zurich, where 50 people participated in activities like story mapping, magic estimation, and release planning. Despite her preparation, the event quickly became difficult as participants grew frustrated, wanting to dive deep into details that could not be addressed. Jelena reflects on how she learned to adapt her approach, embrace agility even in preparation, and ask for help when needed.
Self-reflection Question: How can you recognize when your workshop expectations are too ambitious and need adjustment? Leave your answer in the comments, let’s get this conversation started!
About Jelena Vucinic
Jelena is a self-conscious perfectionist and an everlasting optimist. She is deeply curious about the way people interact. After listening attentively, she likes to ask open questions that often help to reflect and improve collaboration. Jelena believes that every single person makes a difference, and she is dedicated to helping teams and leaders unlock their potential.
You can link with Jelena Vucinic on LinkedIn. -
BONUS: Unlocking High-Performance in Agile Organizations, with Rebecca Homkes
In this BONUS episode, strategy expert Rebecca Homkes delves into the core themes of her book Survive Reset Thrive: Leading breakthrough growth strategy in volatile times. With a wealth of experience advising CEOs and serving as a Lecturer at London Business School, Rebecca shares practical advice on how leaders can navigate uncertainty, cultivate internal predictability, and create adaptive, high-performing teams. Whether you're in the software industry or any other fast-paced environment, this conversation offers invaluable insights into leading through change and driving sustainable growth.
Reframing Our Response to Uncertainty for Agile Organizations“Uncertainty is the new certainty. Let’s not make change bigger than it needs to be.”
Rebecca opens with a key premise from her book: the need to reframe our natural response to uncertainty. She challenges the common association between uncertainty and negativity, urging leaders to embrace it as an opportunity for growth. She explains how software industry leaders can guide their teams to view change as a pathway to innovation, rather than a setback. Uncertainty, after all, is a constant, and thriving in volatile times requires a mindset shift towards flexibility and resilience.
"Leaders should embrace uncertainty as an opportunity, not a setback. It’s about changing the narrative and leading your team to thrive amidst change."
Planning for the Future in Agile Contexts“Shift from planning to preparing. Build capabilities to seize opportunities as they emerge.”
Rebecca advises against over-reliance on rigid strategic plans. Instead, she emphasizes the importance of building flexibility into long-term strategies—especially in fast-moving industries like software development. Leaders should focus on preparation, enabling their teams to adapt quickly to new opportunities as they arise. She highlights the value of testing beliefs, making small, incremental bets, and staying agile when strategic assumptions change.
"Stop focusing on rigid plans. Build preparation into your strategy and be ready to capitalize on unexpected opportunities."
Building Internal Predictability“Internal predictability enables teams to navigate chaos. Clarity in decision-making is key.”
While adaptability is crucial, Rebecca highlights the importance of internal predictability to create a stable foundation for teams to thrive. This means establishing clear decision-making processes and aligning team goals, so that despite external chaos, there is an internal structure that teams can rely on. She underscores the need for "aligned speed"—the ability to make quick, effective decisions with clarity on who is responsible for each choice.
"Adaptability doesn’t mean chaos. Build internal predictability by codifying decision-making processes, enabling faster, clearer decisions."
The 9 Power Moves in the Agile Framework"Surviving crises requires discipline in execution. The 9 Power Moves provide a playbook."
Rebecca shares insights into her "9 Power Moves," a framework designed to help organizations navigate crises. She explains how these moves can be adapted by software companies facing market shifts or project setbacks. Each move offers a practical step leaders can implement to ensure their teams remain agile, focused, and ready to turn challenges into growth opportunities.
"To thrive in a crisis, you need a disciplined approach. The 9 Power Moves give leaders a clear playbook for turning adversity into success."
Celebrating Experimentation in the Software Industry“If you learn faster, you grow faster. Experimentation is about learning, not failure.”
Rebecca emphasizes the importance of fostering a culture that celebrates experimentation, especially in industries like software where innovation drives success. Experimentation is not about failure but about quickly testing assumptions that could impact the company's success. She encourages leaders to create an environment where experimentation is seen as a discipline, supported by clear processes to test new ideas rapidly and cheaply.
"Experimentation is about fast learning, not failure. Create a culture where testing assumptions is celebrated as a path to growth."
Fostering Shared Context for Cohesive Agile Teams“Communication is not the same as understanding. Focus on simplicity and shared context.”
One of the key insights Rebecca shares is the idea that more communication does not necessarily lead to better results. Instead, she stresses the need for shared context among team members. In agile environments, leaders should focus on simplicity, ensuring everyone understands what the organization is trying to achieve and how each person’s work ties into that vision. This approach helps maintain alignment and efficiency, especially in cross-functional teams.
"More communication doesn’t equal better teamwork. Focus on building a shared context to ensure everyone is aligned on goals."
Overcoming Leadership Obstacles in Agile Transformation“Take a pause and reassess your beliefs. Don’t let past success create blind spots.”
Rebecca identifies common leadership traps during Agile transformations, such as overconfidence in past successes. She advises leaders to regularly reassess their beliefs and strategies to avoid stagnation. She also stresses the importance of creating space for strategic conversations, so teams feel aligned and empowered to execute their work within the broader organizational goals.
"Avoid leadership traps by regularly reassessing your beliefs. Don't let past success blind you to new realities."
Learning from Real-Life Case Studies in Agile Environments“High-performing teams act on beliefs, not just facts. Track your beliefs to learn and adapt faster.”
Drawing from real-life case studies from companies like Spotify and Dell, Rebecca shares key lessons for building high-performing teams. She emphasizes the importance of acting on well-tested beliefs and using these as the foundation for strategic decisions. To support this, she suggests using a "belief tracker" to monitor and adapt strategies based on real-time learning and experimentation.
"Successful teams don’t just rely on facts—they act on beliefs. Use belief trackers to stay agile and learn faster."
About Rebecca Homkes
Rebecca Homkes is a strategy expert, advising CEOs and serving as a Lecturer at London Business School. With roles at Duke, BCG University, and as a London School of Economics fellow, she is also a keynote speaker and YPO Faculty Director. Leading fintech accelerators and serving on company boards, she holds a doctorate from LSE and resides in Miami, San Francisco, and London. Rebecca is the author of Survive Reset Thrive: Leading breakthrough growth strategy in volatile times.
You can link with Rebecca Homkes on LinkedIn.
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Dominika Bula: The Power of Storytelling in Product Ownership
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
The Great Product Owner: Storytelling and FocusDominika shares a story about a great Product Owner (PO) who excelled in communicating the essence of what the team was doing through storytelling. This PO acted as an ambassador, bridging the gap between the team and stakeholders. They knew when to step in and when to step back, allowing the team to contribute their ideas. This PO also helped the team focus by presenting clear objectives and guiding the team through challenges without micromanaging. Their ability to communicate and foster collaboration made them an excellent example of what a Product Owner should strive to be.
The Bad Product Owner: Overwhelmed and IsolatedIn contrast, Dominika highlights a negative Product Owner pattern where the PO tried to take on too much by themselves. Lacking a holistic view of their role, this PO attempted to manage everything alone, making decisions without team input and feeling overwhelmed as a result. This led to a lack of team collaboration, with the team feeling unappreciated and their feedback ignored. The PO, in this case, failed to justify or validate their decisions, leading to disengagement and frustration for both the PO and the team.
Self-reflection Question:
Are you fostering collaboration as a Product Owner, or are you trying to manage everything on your own? Leave your answer in the comments, let’s get this conversation started!About Dominika Bula
Dominika is an Agile Coach at SAP Signavio with a strong background in agile practices from her experiences at Oracle and Red Hat. She is passionate about Kanban and firmly believes that Agile and DevOps are the perfect combination. As a facilitator for the Women in Agile mentorship program, Dominika is dedicated to supporting and nurturing the next generation of agile leaders.
You can link with Dominika Bula on LinkedIn. -
Dominika Bula: How To Grow Self-Sufficient Agile Teams
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Dominika shares a story of a self-sufficient team that fully embraced Scrum values, communicated openly, and thrived without her direct involvement. The team had developed a strong internal support system, understood their code of conduct, and took ownership of their decisions. For Dominika, the ultimate sign of success is when the team operates independently, learning and growing together.
Self-reflection Question: Is your team ready to operate independently, or do they still rely on you for guidance? Leave your answer in the comments, let’s get this conversation started!
Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Circles of ControlDominika recommends the "Circles of Control" retrospective format, a powerful tool to help teams identify what they can control, what they can influence, and what is outside of their control. This format opens up discussions on different perspectives within the team and creates a safe space for sharing. It also helps teams focus on what they can impact, driving actionable improvements.
About Dominika Bula
Dominika is an Agile Coach at SAP Signavio with a strong background in agile practices from her experiences at Oracle and Red Hat. She is passionate about Kanban and firmly believes that Agile and DevOps are the perfect combination. As a facilitator for the Women in Agile mentorship program, Dominika is dedicated to supporting and nurturing the next generation of agile leaders.
You can link with Dominika Bula on LinkedIn. -
Dominika Bula: Tackling Resistance to Change with Effective Communication, A Scrum Master’s Guide
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
In this episode, Dominika discusses the challenges of harmonizing tools across different teams within a project. As more teams join the project, the inconsistencies in tool usage become apparent. Dominika emphasizes starting with a discovery process to understand the current situation before proposing options for change. She shares tips on effective communication strategies, the importance of involving team leads, and how to tackle emotional objections to change. She also warns against focusing on tasks rather than end-state outcomes when defining goals for change.
Self-reflection Question: How do you communicate changes in your teams, and are you focusing on outcomes or just tasks? Leave your answer in the comments, let’s get this conversation started!
About Dominika Bula
Dominika is an Agile Coach at SAP Signavio with a strong background in agile practices from her experiences at Oracle and Red Hat. She is passionate about Kanban and firmly believes that Agile and DevOps are the perfect combination. As a facilitator for the Women in Agile mentorship program, Dominika is dedicated to supporting and nurturing the next generation of agile leaders.
You can link with Dominika Bula on LinkedIn. -
Dominika Bula: Building Stronger Agile Teams Through Working Agreements And Deliberate Collaboration
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
Dominika shares a story about a growing team in a scaling agile environment where new members were joining frequently. This team lacked a proper working agreement, which resulted in disengaged team members who didn't participate fully in daily discussions. Dominika’s approach was to help the team start a buddy system for new joiners and ensure that everyone, especially new members, felt heard. She emphasizes the importance of developing a deliberate decision-making model and the need to differentiate between the Definition of Done (DoD) and a team working agreement.
Self-reflection Question: Is your team’s working agreement fostering participation and inclusion from every member, especially new joiners? Leave your answer in the comments, let’s get this conversation started!
Featured Book of the Week: Kanban Pocket Guide by Dan VacantiDominika recommends Kanban Pocket Guide by Dan Vacanti as a must-read for anyone interested in improving team flow. It’s a concise and practical guide that helps integrate Kanban into Scrum teams by focusing on value and transparency. Dominika appreciates its clarity, specific examples, and how it helps Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches refine their understanding of Kanban to enhance team performance. The guide is also a great resource to revisit regularly.
About Dominika Bula
Dominika is an Agile Coach at SAP Signavio with a strong background in agile practices from her experiences at Oracle and Red Hat. She is passionate about Kanban and firmly believes that Agile and DevOps are the perfect combination. As a facilitator for the Women in Agile mentorship program, Dominika is dedicated to supporting and nurturing the next generation of agile leaders.
You can link with Dominika Bula on LinkedIn. -
Dominika Bula: How To Let Go, And Help Teams Take Ownership of Their Problems
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
In this episode, Dominika shares a personal story when she initially joined a team and made the mistake of trying to solve the problems for the team rather than letting them own their improvement journey. This approach led to disengagement, as team members stepped back and avoided participation. Dominika highlights key anti-patterns, such as thinking you are "too senior to learn" and being resistant to change. Her advice is clear: step back, let the team take charge, and foster a culture of continuous learning by exploring external communities and attending conferences.
Self-reflection Question:
Have you ever stepped back to allow your team to solve their own problems, or are you still trying to lead them through every challenge? Leave your answer in the comments, let’s get this conversation started![IMAGE HERE]🔥 In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it's about leadership. 🔥
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About Dominika Bula
Dominika is an Agile Coach at SAP Signavio with a strong background in agile practices from her experiences at Oracle and Red Hat. She is passionate about Kanban and firmly believes that Agile and DevOps are the perfect combination. As a facilitator for the Women in Agile mentorship program, Dominika is dedicated to supporting and nurturing the next generation of agile leaders.
You can link with Dominika Bula on LinkedIn. -
BONUS: Mastering Remote Work in Agile Teams With Antony Marcano
NOTE: We want to thank the folks at Tuple.app for being so generous with their stories, and supporting the podcast. Visit tuple.app/scrum and share them if you find the app useful! Remember, sharing is caring!
In this BONUS episode, Antony, co-founder of RiverGlide and Head of Engineering at Ford Digital, joins us to share his experiences and insights from 30 years in software development, including 25 years in Agile practices. As a technical practitioner, leader, and consultant, Antony reflects on navigating remote work, overcoming challenges, and setting up successful remote software teams, while exploring future trends in the industry.
The Shift to Fully Remote WorkAntony reflects on his first fully remote software project, which took place during the pandemic when everyone was forced to work from home. While his team had been working together for 12 months, they struggled with traditional video conferencing tools that lacked the ability to support pair programming or mob programming effectively. This is when Antony and his team discovered Tuple, a tool that allows for seamless control sharing and a co-located pairing experience.
"Switching to Tuple was a game-changer for us in making remote pairing feel as interactive as in-person collaboration."
Overcoming Challenges in Remote CollaborationThe biggest challenge Antony identifies in remote work is the loss of serendipitous moments—those random watercooler conversations that often lead to innovation. To address this, Antony encourages teams to create opportunities for these moments by structuring time for informal interactions and fostering a safe and open communication culture.
"You can’t recreate the watercooler, but you can create opportunities for innovation by encouraging open-door policies and setting up shared virtual spaces."
Building Effective Remote TeamsFor Antony, real collaboration is critical to the success of remote teams. He grew up on XP (Extreme Programming) and believes in the power of pairing and mob programming. Antony emphasizes the importance of maintaining good practices from in-person work, such as prioritizing mental well-being, while adapting to the unique needs of remote teams.
"Collaboration is not just about tools—it’s about mental well-being, trust, and giving the team what they need to succeed."
Keeping Teams on Track with Clear GoalsAntony shares his approach to ensuring that teams remain aligned with clear goals and progress tracking. His teams focus on delivering small, incremental slices of work and using techniques like limiting Work In Progress (WIP). Rather than viewing user stories as a list of tasks, Antony encourages teams to focus on the user benefit and desired outcomes.
"It’s about the ‘why,’ not just the ‘what.’ User stories should focus on the goal, not just be a list of tasks."
The Future of Remote Work in Software DevelopmentLooking ahead, Antony predicts that tools will continue to evolve, with AI playing a more significant role in software development. He discusses the possibility of having AI participants in pairing sessions and shares his concerns about the convergence of tools that may lose focus over time. Antony encourages developers to experiment with new technologies and remain open to change.
"AI is the next frontier in software development, and we need to embrace how it can enhance our remote work experiences."
Recommended Resources for Mastering Remote WorkAntony notes that while many resources on remote work are often too generic, there are valuable tools and practices software teams can adopt. He recommends regularly rotating hosts during remote pairing sessions and setting aside time for retrospectives and discussions about the bigger 'why' behind the work.
"When pairing, rotate roles, reflect regularly, and always focus on the bigger ‘why’ to keep your team aligned and motivated."
About Antony Marcano
Antony is the co-founder of RiverGlide and Head of Engineering at Ford Digital. With 30 years of software development experience, including 25 years in Agile practices, he is a respected leader, coach, and consultant. Antony has contributed to books and journals and is a keynote speaker at global conferences and universities such as Oxford and McGill. He is also the co-creator of 'PairWith.Us,' and remains a hands-on technical practitioner, specializing in Agile development and leading teams to excel in agility.
You can link with Antony on LinkedIn visit RiverGlide.com, or check out RiverGlide TV on YouTube.
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Eli Goodman: How Team Alignment Drives Product Success, A Product Owner’s Journey
NOTE: We want to thank the folks at Tuple.app for being so generous with their stories, and supporting the podcast. Visit tuple.app/scrum and share them if you find the app useful! Remember, sharing is caring!
The Great Product Owner: The Collaborator POIn this episode, Eli Goodman, Head of Product at Tuple, shares an inspiring example of a Product Owner who truly embraced collaboration, ensuring the entire team was aligned with the product vision. Eli highlights the positive impact of this behavior on both team morale and product outcomes.
The Bad Product Owner: The Isolated POEli explores a classic Product Owner anti-pattern—working in isolation from the team. In this episode, he discusses the negative effects of this behavior on team collaboration and product success. Listen in to find out how Product Owners can avoid becoming isolated and instead foster collaboration within Agile teams.
About Eli Goodman
Eli Goodman has been working on software teams for 17 years. He’s been a full-stack developer and engineering manager at both large and small companies, including Etsy and Headspace. A few years ago, Eli transitioned to product management and is now the Head of Product at Tuple, a remote pair programming service used by companies such as Figma, Shopify, and many others in the software industry.
You can link with Eli Goodman on LinkedIn, or email Eli at [email protected].
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Eli Goodman: Keeping Product Teams Aligned, Advice for Product Leaders in Remote Teams
NOTE: We want to thank the folks at Tuple.app for being so generous with their stories, and supporting the podcast. Visit tuple.app/scrum and share them if you find the app useful! Remember, sharing is caring!
Eli reflects on the unique challenges of being a product manager for a distributed team. He emphasizes the importance of staying in touch with reality, testing assumptions, and journaling as key habits for success. He also shares tips on how to pair effectively with colleagues to maintain accountability and stay aligned with the team’s goals. Listen in to find out what are some of the key habits that can help product managers thrive in remote environments.
Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: The Sailboat RetrospectiveIn this episode, Eli Goodman, Head of Product at Tuple, shares his favorite retrospective format: the Sailboat Retrospective. Eli explains why this format helps teams visualize their progress and challenges while promoting open communication. He highlights the importance of retrospectives in creating alignment and continuous improvement within distributed teams.
About Eli Goodman
Eli Goodman has been working on software teams for 17 years. He’s been a full-stack developer and engineering manager at both large and small companies, including Etsy and Headspace. A few years ago, Eli transitioned to product management and is now the Head of Product at Tuple, a remote pair programming service used by companies such as Figma, Shopify, and many others in the software industry.
You can link with Eli Goodman on LinkedIn, or email Eli at [email protected].
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BONUS: What the UK COVID App Project Taught Us About Remote Agile Collaboration: A Conversation with Giovanni Asproni
NOTE: We want to thank the folks at Tuple.app for being so generous with their stories, and supporting the podcast. Visit tuple.app/scrum and share them if you find the app useful! Remember, sharing is caring!
In this special BONUS episode, Giovanni Asproni, CTO and co-founder of Launch Ventures, takes us behind the scenes of his work on the UK government's COVID-19 app project. Giovanni shares insights into the rapid development process, the adoption of remote pairing and ensemble programming, and valuable lessons on leadership in large-scale, high-stakes projects. Giovanni also offers practical advice for teams embracing remote collaboration and agile methodologies.
The Start of a Crucial Project"When we got the call from the UK government, we knew this was a mission to help stop the spread of the virus." Giovanni kicks off the episode by recounting how his team at Zühlke Engineering got involved in the development of the UK’s COVID-19 app. Tasked with the challenge of building a solution that could help prevent the spread of the virus, they were under immense pressure to deliver quickly. Giovanni explains how they tackled technical hurdles, such as using Bluetooth technology to assess contagion risks, despite the lack of existing APIs on iOS and Android at the time.
"Speed was essential, but we also needed a robust design—Bluetooth was key to evaluating contagion risks, even though we didn’t have the APIs we needed."
Overcoming Rapid Release Challenges"We had to move fast, but accessibility and coordination were non-negotiable." Giovanni discusses how the team, which consisted of around 60-70 members spread across the globe, used agile methodologies to stay organized and on schedule. By fostering open communication and using a clear team structure, they were able to streamline development. Agile planning and strong leadership, including cross-team coordination, were crucial to staying on track.
"Agile was our backbone—every team knew their responsibility, and clear communication meant we could deploy with confidence."
The Power of Remote Pairing and Ensemble Programming"Pairing allowed us to maintain quality under immense pressure." Giovanni dives deep into the practices of remote pairing and ensemble programming (or mobbing), which were introduced to enhance code quality and resilience during the project. With team members working remotely and under heavy scrutiny, mobbing provided a social outlet and improved problem-solving, while tools like Tuple made remote collaboration seamless. He reflects on the success of these practices, highlighting their impact on efficiency and team morale.
"We embraced mobbing not just for resilience, but to stay connected in a time when social contact was scarce."
Advice for Remote Pairing Beginners"Don’t overthink it—just start and take breaks!" For teams new to remote pairing or ensemble programming, Giovanni offers simple but effective advice: give it a serious try, take breaks to avoid burnout, and don't overcomplicate the process. He emphasizes that these practices can dramatically improve productivity and team cohesion if executed well.
"Take the plunge—remote pairing can feel awkward at first, but the benefits are worth it."
Key Lessons on Remote Work and Collaboration"Don’t try to recreate the office—remote work offers unique advantages." Reflecting on the lessons from the COVID-19 app project, Giovanni explains how remote work is not just a substitute for office work but an entirely different mode of collaboration. He warns against trying to replicate office dynamics remotely, and instead, encourages teams to embrace the benefits of remote settings, such as easier scheduling and fewer distractions from management oversight.
"Remote work isn’t about replicating the office—when done right, it’s a whole new way to collaborate."
Resources for Learning More"Explore the power of mob programming with these great resources." To wrap up, Giovanni shares a few key resources for listeners who want to dive deeper into remote pairing, ensemble programming, or leadership in software engineering. He recommends "Software Teaming" by Woody Zuill and the Remote Mob Programming website, which offers comprehensive guides and tools.
You can also find out more about Giovanni’s work at his company website: https://www.asprotunity.com.
During the episode, Giovanni mentions a network of consultants, which you can access at: https://www.clockwork.ing.
And the podcast Giovanni hosts is the Software Engineering Radio podcast.
About Giovanni Asproni
Giovanni Asproni is a consultant, CTO, and co-founder of Launch Ventures. He is an expert in agile development, software design, and modern software engineering practices. Giovanni is a host for the Software Engineering Radio podcast and a frequent speaker at international conferences.You can link with Giovanni Asproni on LinkedIn.
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Eli Goodman: How A/B Testing Can Derail Product Development, A Product Leadership Story
NOTE: We want to thank the folks at Tuple.app for being so generous with their stories, and supporting the podcast. Visit tuple.app/scrum and share them if you find the app useful! Remember, sharing is caring!
Eli Goodman, Head of Product at Tuple, discusses a recurring anti-pattern in product development: the over-reliance on A/B testing. Reflecting on his experiences at two different companies, Eli illustrates how A/B testing, when misused, can slow down product progress and lead to a bloated team structure. He also shares strategies on how to avoid this trap and take responsibility for product decisions. How can product teams avoid hiding behind A/B testing and instead move forward with confidence? Listen in to find out!
Featured Book of the Week: The Idea Factory by Jon GertnerIn this episode, Eli Goodman, Head of Product at Tuple, shares the profound influence of The Idea Factory, a book about Bell Labs, on his career as a product manager. Eli delves into how the book’s lessons on creativity, innovation, and the long-term impact of foundational ideas have shaped his thinking. What can today’s product leaders learn from the story of Bell Labs? How does creativity fuel product success, even in today’s fast-paced tech world? Listen in to find out.
About Eli Goodman
Eli Goodman has been working on software teams for 17 years. He’s been a full-stack developer and engineering manager at both large and small companies, including Etsy and Headspace. A few years ago, Eli transitioned to product management and is now the Head of Product at Tuple, a remote pair programming service used by companies such as Figma, Shopify, and many others in the software industry.
You can link with Eli Goodman on LinkedIn, or email Eli at [email protected].
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Eli Goodman: The Risk of Investing in Non-Critical Features That Remove Focus From the Core Experience, A Product Leadership Story
NOTE: We want to thank the folks at Tuple.app for being so generous with their stories, and supporting the podcast. Visit tuple.app/scrum and share them if you find the app useful! Remember, sharing is caring!
In this episode, Eli Goodman, Head of Product at Tuple, shares a compelling failure story that transformed his approach to product development. Eli reflects on a time when he ambitiously pursued building a community feature that seemed like a perfect addition to the product. However, the project didn't take off, leading to a realization about investing in features that aren't critical to the core user path. How do you identify which features truly belong in your product? And when is it time to pull the plug on an idea?
About Eli Goodman
Eli Goodman has been working on software teams for 17 years. He’s been a full-stack developer and engineering manager at both large and small companies, including Etsy and Headspace. A few years ago, Eli transitioned to product management and is now the Head of Product at Tuple, a remote pair programming service used by companies such as Figma, Shopify, and many others in the software industry.
You can link with Eli Goodman on LinkedIn, or email Eli at [email protected].
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BONUS: Mastering Product Management in a Remote World, Insights from Tuple’s Head of Product, Eli Goodman
NOTE: We want to thank the folks at Tuple.app for being so generous with their stories, and supporting the podcast. Visit tuple.app/scrum and share them if you find the app useful! Remember, sharing is caring!
In this episode, Eli Goodman, Head of Product at Tuple, shares insights from his extensive experience in software development and product management. Having transitioned from engineering management to product leadership, Eli reveals the key strategies Tuple uses to develop its remote pair programming service, which is trusted by companies like Figma and Shopify. Tune in to discover how Tuple handles remote team dynamics, customer-driven development, and balances tech debt with client needs, all while maintaining a customer-centric focus.
Introduction to Tuple and Why It’s UniqueTuple, a remote pair programming service designed by engineers, solves a pain point that its founders, all pairing enthusiasts, experienced firsthand. They were unsatisfied with generic screen-sharing tools that disrupted the flow of coding collaboration. Tuple’s product philosophy is about staying "one inch wide, one mile deep" to ensure the tool stays focused on enhancing the pairing experience without getting in the way.
"The details matter. Generic screen-sharing tools just don't cut it for productive pairing."
Managing a Remote Team at TupleManaging a distributed team across the U.S. and Europe comes with its challenges. Eli highlights the importance of alignment and ensuring everyone is on the same page, despite working remotely. He emphasizes the role of Product Owners as "connective tissue" and the power of connecting team members with key initiatives. Through personal conversations, Eli uncovers what motivates his team, allowing him to support them without micromanaging.
"What makes you proud? What brings you shame? Understanding these emotions helps uncover what drives our team."
Ensuring Effective Communication in a Remote EnvironmentEffective communication is the backbone of remote work, and Eli shares some of the practices that have helped Tuple’s team stay aligned and collaborative. From using spontaneous pairing sessions to fostering a culture of checking in, Tuple has created a remote work environment where conversations are naturally sparked, and collaboration is effortless.
"We have more space in our schedules for spontaneous pairing, which keeps collaboration flowing."
Lessons Learned from Pairing RemotelyOne of the key insights Eli shares is how Tuple has evolved its remote pairing process. In the past, pairing might have felt like a formal meeting, but now it happens more spontaneously. Tuple's app facilitates this by offering the metaphor of a phone call—engineers can call each other at any time, making collaboration easy, especially when someone is deep into a task and needs quick support.
"At Tuple, engineers only have three meetings a week, leaving the rest of the time open for pairing and creative work."
Pairing Beyond Programming TasksWhile pairing is typically associated with programming, Eli explains how Tuple uses pairing for other activities, like design or planning sessions. This practice has extended beyond coding, fostering a culture where team members collaborate on various tasks that benefit from shared perspectives and live problem-solving.
"We’ve expanded pairing beyond coding, using it for activities like design reviews and project planning."
Balancing Customer Feedback with Product VisionResponding to customer feedback is vital, but it can also lead to losing focus. Eli explains how Tuple balances this by capturing as much feedback as possible, using tools like Product Board to keep track of customer requests. However, instead of building every requested feature, Eli focuses on synthesizing broader patterns and emotional triggers that align with Tuple’s long-term vision.
"Focus on discovery as a product person. Understand the emotional context behind customer feedback—that’s what drives great products."
Tuple’s Ideal Customer and Core ValueTuple’s ideal customers are teams that value deep collaboration through pair programming. The platform’s most important offering is the ability to make remote pairing seamless and intuitive, something traditional tools fail to deliver.
"Tuple is built for teams that believe in the power of collaboration and want a tool that enhances their pairing experience, not disrupts it."
Roadmapping: How to Prioritize the Right Work in Product DevelopmentLooking ahead, Eli shares Tuple’s plans to continue investing in quality and lowering the barriers to remote pairing. One exciting potential direction includes creating a "social layer" within the app to help users feel more connected with their teammates. Another idea is incorporating non-human pairing agents that could assist with specific tasks.
"We want to see if we can make it feel like you're right there with your teammates, lowering the barriers to start pairing."
Recommended ResourcesEli recommends The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick, a must-read for anyone working in product management. The book teaches how to talk to customers in a way that gets honest, useful feedback rather than polite responses that don't help improve the product.
"I thought caring about people was enough to talk to customers, but The Mom Test taught me what not to do during customer interviews."
About Eli Goodman
Eli Goodman has been working on software teams for 17 years. He’s been a full-stack developer and engineering manager at both large and small companies, including Etsy and Headspace. A few years ago, Eli transitioned to product management and is now the Head of Product at Tuple, a remote pair programming service used by companies such as Figma, Shopify, and many others in the software industry.
You can link with Eli Goodman on LinkedIn, or email Eli at [email protected].
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BONUS: The Creative Agile Coach: Jaques Smit’s Lessons on Fostering Creativity in our Work and within Teams
In this BONUS episode, we dive deep into the unique intersection of agile coaching and fantasy writing with Jaques Smit, an Agile Coach in the gaming industry, and master transformational coach with his passion for crafting fantasy stories infused with Positive Psychology. Join us as we explore how his dual passions inform and enhance each other, providing practical insights for both aspiring writers and agile professionals.
Agile Coaching Through Storytelling"I explore ideas in agile coaching in my writing through characters and context, making complex concepts relatable and actionable to the reader."
Jaques shares how his background in fantasy writing enriches his approach to agile coaching. By creating vivid characters and immersive contexts, he brings agile principles to life, allowing teams to better understand and implement them. This storytelling technique not only engages team members but also facilitates deeper comprehension and retention of agile methodologies.
Deciding Which Ideas to Pursue"Fiction allows you to push ideas to the nth degree, exploring possibilities that can inspire real-world solutions."
Drawing from his agile experience, Jaques discusses his method for selecting which ideas to develop further in his writing. He emphasizes the importance of iterative planning and feedback, much like agile sprints, to refine and enhance his stories. By focusing on one key idea per book and continuously improving based on reader feedback, he ensures that each narrative remains compelling and impactful.
Gathering Feedback for Writing Projects"Understanding your target audience is crucial – you need to know your reader better than they know themselves."
Jaques outlines his strategies for collecting and utilizing feedback to shape his writing projects. From selecting alpha readers to conducting in-depth conversations, he highlights the importance of targeted feedback in refining his stories. By defining the "value" of his books and aligning them with his readers' needs, Jaques ensures that his work resonates deeply and meets the expectations of his audience.
Experimenting with Story Ideas"Character sketches and story outlines are invaluable tools for testing different ideas before committing to a full project."
Reflecting on his early writing experiences, Jaques shares how experimenting with various story and topic ideas has been pivotal in his development as an author. He discusses the use of character and story sketches to explore different directions and gather feedback, enabling him to pivot and adapt his narratives based on what resonates most with his readers. From these stories shared by Jaques, we learn how the same principles can be applied in Product Development.
Using Storytelling to Lead Change"Incorporating a coach into the book creates real coaching conversations that mirror transformative leadership practices."
Jaques explains how he integrates his coaching expertise into his storytelling to illustrate effective leadership and transformational change. By embedding coaching dialogues within his narratives, he provides readers with practical examples of how to navigate challenges and foster growth, both in fictional settings and real-life scenarios.
The Value of Fiction in Learning"Reading fantasy and sci-fi allows you to explore problems from a safe distance, offering a stress holiday while fostering creative solutions."
Highlighting the benefits of fiction, Jaques discusses how genres like fantasy and science fiction can serve as powerful tools for learning and problem-solving. By presenting challenges and solutions in imaginative contexts, these stories encourage readers to think outside the box and apply creative thinking to their own professional and personal lives.
Maintaining Momentum to Finish a Book"Focusing on early adopters and serving their needs provides the motivation and evidence needed to complete a book."
Jaques shares his strategies for staying motivated and ensuring the completion of his writing projects. By engaging with his early adopters and continuously seeking their input, he maintains a clear direction and purpose, which helps him overcome distractions and challenges along the way. In Product Development, we can learn from Jaques’ story and apply some of the same ideas when developing products.
Writing Principles Applicable to Software Development"The principles of iterative improvement and feedback loops in writing are directly transferable to agile software development."
Drawing parallels between writing and software development, Jaques emphasizes how practices like iterative drafting and continuous feedback can enhance both creative and technical projects. His insights reveal how the disciplined approach of writing can inform more effective and responsive software development processes.
Overcoming Writing Challenges"Embracing challenges as opportunities to grow strengthens both your writing and your agile practices."
Jaques discusses common obstacles writers face and how adopting an agile mindset can help overcome them. By viewing challenges as chances to iterate and improve, he maintains momentum and ensures consistent progress toward his writing goals.
Closing Thoughts: The Synergy of Coaching and Writing"Integrating coaching techniques into storytelling not only enriches the narrative but also empowers readers to implement positive changes in their lives."
In his closing remarks, Jaques reflects on the powerful synergy between his coaching and writing endeavors. He underscores the importance of blending practical coaching strategies with engaging storytelling to create meaningful and transformative experiences for his audience.
About Jaques Smit
Jaques Smit was born in Rundu, Namibia, and lives with his family in Wellington, New Zealand. As a games Agile Coach and master transformational coach, he writes about fantasy laced with Positive Psychology, aspiring to create compelling stories that touch the reader.
You can link with Jaques Smit on LinkedIn.
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Richard Coplan: The Power of a Vision-Driven Product Owner
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
The Great Product Owner: The Power of a Vision-Driven Product OwnerRichard highlights a positive example of a PO at a pharma company who excelled by focusing on the holistic system and maintaining strong user relationships. This PO inspired both the team and the business by bringing a clear product vision to every planning session.
The Bad Product Owner: When a PO Disconnects from Users, A Recipe for FailureRichard discusses the pitfalls of a Product Owner who treats their role as a side job, leading to disengagement from both the users and the development team. This PO was more concerned with their personal to-do list than listening to user feedback, creating a disconnect between the system’s true needs and what was being prioritized.
[IMAGE HERE] Are you having trouble helping the team work well with their Product Owner? We’ve put together a course to help you work on the collaboration team-product owner. You can find it at bit.ly/coachyourpo. 18 modules, 8+ hours of modules with tools and techniques that you can use to help teams and PO’s collaborate.
About Richard Coplan
Richard joins us from the UK. He has been a software developer for many years and later became data-centric, eventually transitioning into the role of Scrum Master. Over the past decade, Richard has specialized as a Scrum Master and Agile Coach, with a focus on collaboration tools like Miro and helping firms streamline their team structures.
You can link with Richard Coplan on LinkedIn.
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