Episodes
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Is your product losing traction or failing to grow? You might be experiencing product-market drift—the silent killer of product success. In this episode, we are joined by David Nash, who helps us spot the warning signs and shows you how to realign with customer needs, market trends, and evolving technologies. Learn how to stay ahead of the drift with actionable strategies that ensure your product remains relevant and continues to deliver value. Don’t let your hard work go to waste—listen in and discover how to keep your product healthy, adaptable, and ready for growth.
Show Links
Dave Washa- Product Market Drift
https://www.mindtheproduct.com/fighting-product-market-drift-by-dave-wascha/
Find David Nash on Linkedin
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dnashpdx/
Show Notes for Episode 13: Battling Product-Market Drift
[1:00] Welcome, David Nash!
David joins us to talk about product-market drift and how product managers can stay ahead of it.[1:30] The Secret to Hiring Great Product Leaders
David shares his knack for building stellar product teams.[2:06] What Is Product-Market Drift?
We dive into what this sneaky challenge is and why it matters.[3:50] The 6 Causes of Product-Market Drift
David breaks down the top reasons products lose their way.[5:30] David’s Big Contributions
How David’s work helps product managers keep their products relevant.[9:00] When Startups Lose Focus
Ryan explains how a lack of focus leads to failed products.[10:49] Customers Want More (and They’re Not Waiting)
65% of people expect better services now than just a few years ago.[12:30] Joe’s Vegas Love Story
What online travel agencies after 9/11 taught us about market evolution.[15:07] David’s Vegas Adventure
A fun story about a father-daughter trip and customer expectations.[18:00] Southwest Airlines and Risks of Change
Joe questions Southwest’s decision to tweak its winning formula.[21:06] Risk: The Biggest Organizational Mistake
David explains why avoiding risk can be deadly for products.[24:00] AI Projects and Taking Risks
David shares lessons from his team’s first AI project.[27:10] Todd’s Stakeholder Management Lesson
An unforgettable story about managing tricky stakeholders.[29:55] Driving Risk Through Red Tape
David introduces his “risk register” to help product managers tackle organizational barriers.[31:45] Job Description Drift
When roles shift, how do you stay on track?[32:30] Todd’s Big Epiphany
What makes product managers such a unique and fascinating group?[35:00] Key Takeaways
Learn how to spot and fix product-market drift before it’s too late.Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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Are you unsure how your Product Manager responsibilities fit into your team’s dynamics? Struggling to define your Product Manager job or wondering what it takes to thrive in your role? In this episode, we label different product team culture types, explore their anti-patterns, and discuss the types of people who perform best in each environment. Along the way, we break down the Product Manager definition within these settings and highlight essential skills for Product Managers to succeed. Think of this episode as part career guide, part group therapy—it’s packed with insights to help you navigate team dynamics and unlock your full potential.
1:21 - Todd has been thinking a lot about cultures—specifically product team cultures and how they impact Product Manager responsibilities.
2:00 - The Product Culture Name It Game and how to thrive in each culture as part of your Product Manager job.
3:26 - We discuss the different elements of product team cultures and their impact on defining essential skills for Product Managers.
5:52 - “If you build it, they will come”—a classic anti-pattern in product management.
8:29 - A discussion around sales enablement and its role in Product Manager responsibilities.
11:11 - A team that ONLY focuses on metrics/KPIs—aka the “tightwad” product culture, and what this means for the Product Manager job.
14:12 - Good aspects of a data-driven product culture and how it aligns with the Product Manager definition.
16:57 - Todd explains why he would thrive in a “data-thirsty” culture.
19:01 - Tips for how a PM can succeed in a data-driven culture by leveraging essential skills for Product Managers.
21:10 - Is success making all stakeholders happy? Or is it ensuring all departments agree on the right thing to do?
22:39 - The Consensus-Driven Culture—Joe gets the gold star for team alignment!
23:30 - A fun “Truman Show” reference to illustrate consensus-driven decision-making.
25:20 - Ryan shares when a consensus-driven culture isn’t ideal for a Product Manager job.
26:00 - Lightning Round: We share our favorite product culture names!
29:00 - Cool Kids Culture? Todd shares childhood trauma about not being “cool.”
30:52 - The Learners Culture: Why constant learning is an essential skill for Product Managers.
32:40 - Ryan and Todd joke about Joe’s real age—was he born in 1935?
34:04 - The Mission-Driven Culture: Aligning product strategy with purpose.
36:22 - The Fire-Fighter Culture: When every day is crisis management.
38:45 - Joe shares the Customer-Centric Culture: What it means for Product Manager responsibilities.
39:20 - Advantages and disadvantages of customer-centric cultures and their impact on defining essential skills for Product Managers.
41:00 - We share which product cultures each of us would thrive in based on our strengths as PMs.
42:00 - Key Takeaways: Plus, a fun “Jumanji” reference to wrap things up.
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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Missing episodes?
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1:42 - Meet Jeff and his big question for product managers: "How can we ensure we have the right understanding from our leaders?"
4:30 - Ryan emphasizes the importance of focusing on outcomes over outputs to clarify product manager responsibilities.
7:35 - Todd jokes about where their "outputs over outcomes" tattoo should go.
9:20 - Ryan urges product managers to seek clarity when they don’t understand the "why" behind a request.
10:30 - Todd shares a story from his LA Times days on asking for clarification from his boss.
15:12 - The group discusses how product managers can overcomplicate unclear requests.
16:00 - Joe suggests playing the "New Guy" card when in doubt.
19:00 - The team highlights that asking questions is a strength for a product manager, not a weakness.
23:35 - Ryan poses the question: Is there ever a time when product managers shouldn't ask for clarification?
24:28 - Joe shares a story about when he had to "bite his tongue" as a product manager.
26:30 - Todd adds that timing is everything; knowing when to ask is part of the product manager job.
30:00 - Joe discusses the role evolution from order-taker to partner for a product manager.
33:26 - Todd revisits Jeff’s story to highlight the importance of avoiding wasted time and resources on misaligned products.
34:30 - Joe shares a product manager tip: develop internal personas to better manage stakeholders and understand their goals.
35:20 - A lightning round on common requests that product managers initially misunderstood.
36:40 - The infamous "JIRA-slinging ticket monkey" term makes an appearance. Shoutout to Dean Peters!
38:46 - Key takeaways (and some friendly teasing of Joe for his wording choices).
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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Episode Description
1:00- Meet Nils Davis
2:47- Nils reminds us that Product Managers are really “Unicorns” in the workforce
7:00- Nils shares his favorite phrase as a Product Manager “Your obvious is your art”
8:47- Nils shares the pros/cons of understanding your “spike”
10:03- We discuss how it's difficult to share our superpower with the people that surround us
12:08- Nils shares the different ways we can discover our PM spike/superpower
15:45- Todd shares the struggle with asking for feedback to identify your PM spike/superpower
17:52- Nils shares one of his PM spikes
20:15- Todd shares the PM spike he wishes he had
22:12- Todd compares Joe’s PM spike to that of a Golden Retriever
25:20- A new word is introduced to the Product Porch- “Pragmatic Empathy”
28:15- Todd asks the question of whether or not the PM role has a unique set of capabilities
33:19- We review the stable of “Product” Unicorns-
36:19- Todd reminds us why he’s against Annual Performance Reviews and not a coder 🙂
39:10- We wrap up with our advice for the PM community struggling to find their “spike” (Nils-leverage Clifton Strengths Finder assessment)- people are the stars of their own movies
40:18- Todd- Don’t feel guilty for your spike. Find that thing that you love and lean into it
41:30- Joe- Be genuine and true to yourself (not as profound as Todd/Nils)
42:00- Nils ends with a very profound thought- “Product Managers are amazing creatures, yet you would never know it from reading their resume”
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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2:15 What are the Product Management trends everyone is talking about
4:30- Todd asks the question: Are we focusing on the problem at the expense of the solution?
7:00- Joe explains why he believes we have over-indexed on some of the common PM themes
10:05- We are getting paid to deliver- reality check for all PMs
11:45- Ryan tells how this is a struggle for Type A personalities
13:16- Todd walks us through his approach to move to execution (from high-level concepts to delivery)
14:21- Joe’s shares an unpopular opinion about SAFe and its value for Product Leaders
16:08- Todd shares how he uses Ryan and Joe for some very specific product needs- team bonding moment
18:45 Todd admits that SAFe quarterly planning is awesome. Joe and Todd have a moment
22:54- What is the Product Managers Role in Solutioning? Ryan shared his POV
27:12- Todd shares a current situation on what to do with competing perspectives on proposed solutions-
29:09- You need to have confidence and conviction- Ryan Cantwell- this is what a PM needs to do
30:30- Sometimes you just make calculated risks as Product Managers- we discuss as a team
35:03- Todd kicks off a Job title game- problem or solution. Grab your popcorn!
39:01- Todd shares why he loves “defining the problem”
41:04- Key Takeaways-
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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1:22 The fellas discuss their favorite Ken phrase
1:44- Ken tells us what it means to be a product management truth teller
5:16- What can we do as product managers to become more valuable?
8:35- One of the first steps- What goal are you trying to achieve and how can I help you get there?
10:30- Ken tells us why you should spend 20 min a week interviewing a customer
12:55: Todd outlines why experimentation is critical for a product manager
16:45- The team discuss the product management anti-patterns we should watch out for
23:00- How to make yourself an indispensable product person?
26:30- Ken talks about how you can build a quarterly plan to build a strong product management team
28:00- Todd shares his PM secret sauce- Product Framing
29:00- Ryan reminds us to ask the question “So What”
30:56- We share Ken’s favorite PM phrase “Magic Beans”
34:15- What got us here (why are there so many PMs that are unemployed)?
37:40- Is there another domain where the role is defined by someone who doesn’t understand the value of product management?
40:00 Key Takeaways/Wrap-up
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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1:22- Joe explains why the role of Product Player Coach role is a cop-out
2:51- Todd uses data to say how it can work and leverages his love of the NBA to demonstrates why
5:34- We discuss what success looks like for a Product Manager Player Coach
10:02- Ryan walks us through how we resolved the challenges associated with this hybrid role
13:32- Todd walks us through the disadvantages of the hybrid PM/Coach role
16:03- Joe emphatically tells us why Product Managers must be successful at relationships- Product Managers are already “coaches”
20:15- We talk about getting uncomfortable to grow as a product manager
23:30- Joe discusses his affinity for gold stars
26:30- Life lessons from being a player-coach have advantages for career advancement if you want to be a people manager
30:20- What are the negatives of being a player-coach?
32:30- We hear about Todd’s real-life experience as a player-coach. Todd clashes with his peers but learns to turn it around.
34:50- Ryan tells us about his real-life experience as a player-coach. He’s the scapegoat!
37:10- How do relationships change when you become a player-coach?
40:20- Hear a fantastic analogy between player-coach and Spider-man 2
44:25- Words of advice for anyone considering the role of player-coach.
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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1:30 Ryan ponders what product failure means?
3:37 The true definition of failure is identified
6:33 Todd speaks to the categories of product failure
9:33 Todd assumes the role of therapist and tells Ryan and Joe they didn’t fail
12:13- We discuss how we turn failure into a learning opportunity
15:06- Joe discusses the most underrated product management skill
19:08- We bring back the Jobs to be done framework when dealing with our co-workers
22:25- Todd shares a tip on how manage friction with a co-workers (brilliant)
25:44- We talk about the temptation to take short-cuts with process
29:00 Todd tells us why he didn’t win any newsroom awards one year
31:00 Ryan comes up with a new PM slogan “It's the scars that make you and not the successes” (Joe thinks it should be on a bumper sticker)
32:34- The “learning” is knowing how we can do it better next time (Hallmark card time)
35:00 - Todd reminds why we shouldn’t never give up when the going gets tough
36:08 - We talk about the fear of using AI to make product management short cuts
37:09 - We all share our product failure war stories
44:30- Wayne’s World reference makes its way into our podcast- Success!
48:00- Thoughts on how you respond to failure drives who you are as a product manager
52:00 Wrap Up
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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1:07 – Joe kicks off the discussion on useless product management terms.
1:49 – We start the PM Jargon Draft, with Todd winning the #1 pick.
3:04 – Todd and Ryan’s #1 pick: "CEO of the Product."
4:23 – Joe’s #1 pick: "Customer Centric" (he’s salty he couldn’t trade for the #1 pick).
6:07 – Todd discusses how every healthcare company is "patient-first" – shouldn’t we all be patient-first in healthcare?
7:14 – Ryan questions "Productize" – is it a verb? A new word in the English dictionary? The big draft controversy.
9:41 – Todd adds "Gathering Requirements" to his hit list of terrible PM terms. We suggest "Gathering Insights" as a better alternative.
15:00 – Iteration vs. Agile discussion – "We are going to be Agile" drives Joe nuts because it often just means "Can we launch it faster?"
18:20 – Ryan selects a declaration: "We are going to be more innovative."
21:10 – "Thinking outside the box" is a controversial pick in the draft.
22:25 – Todd explains why he hates the term "Feature Parity"; Joe recommends "Holistic Approach" instead.
30:51 – "Being Product-led" is a steal in the 3rd round for Ryan, who explains what it really means.
36:10 – Undrafted superstar PM Terms (Joe has PTSD from Ryan yelling at him for "fail fast").
40:00 – Todd predicts next year’s draft class, starting with "Outcomes over Outputs," "Product-Market Fit," and "Go-to-Market Enablement."
43:00 – Actionable takeaways.Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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Ryan tells us how he leveraged PM principles recently for his mulch project ( 0:45)Joe shows us how Ryan applied the Jobs to Done framework to Ryan’s approach (3:00)We discuss how often we apply PM Principles creep into our life (5:00)Todd discusses how Problem Framing can be applied in real-world scenarios (12:00)Joe gives us a review of the Broadway Show “Heart of Rock and Roll” (20:00)Ryan walks us through dot voting techniques for family (21:00)Todd experiments with Tiny Acts of Discovery (23:50) Ryan applies iteration techniques when filling up the dishwasher (26:40)Todd discusses success metrics and his neighbor's lawn (31:00)We talk about which product principles don’t work in real life (32:27)Key takeaways and our recommendations (38:24)
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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Product Champions: a new title for PMs (1:00)Airbnb gets rid of product manager title (3:45)Chief No Officer / Head of No / Innovation Sponge / Walking Roadblock / Killer of Dreams, (5:55)Superman, Smokey the Bear and Lil Smokies, and User Psychologists (12:15)Group Therapist, Anger Manager, and The Negotiator (15:20)Outcome Architect and Director of Opinions (19:00)Aladdin and Product Genie wishing rules (22:30)Provlemologist and Innovation Specialists (27:15)The Fortune Teller, Product Facilier, and Product Gambler (29:45)Napalm Artist, sports cliches, and The Joker (33:40)Value Broker, Risk Mitigator, and Zookeeper (37:40)We discuss whether or not the PM title needs a rebrand (39:00)Which PM titles are our favorites (41:00)Why the Product Manager role needs a brand and marketing department (45:15)Key Takeaways (46:40)
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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Ryan emphatically explains why you don’t need experience for a PM job (2:11)Joe shares why it isn’t a black/white answer (4:20)The danger in over-indexing to hiring for experience (8:30)The value of mentorships to overcome a lack of industry experience (18:00)Ryan walks us through the beginners mindset as a product leader (23:00)Find fit for the role - don’t rely on the experience - how long does it take to be great at product discovery (28:00)Ryan tell us why he hates the term “fail fast” (31:00)The similarities between baseball and product management (35:10)A teaser on an upcoming product management podcast (41:00)Key Takeaways (45:30)
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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Ryan’s story - struggle with plastic bags - being environmentally responsible (:58)Jobs to be Done is a PM’s superpower (5:00)Using the empathy superpower for evil (6:00)Using the storytelling for evil (8:14)Navigating Righteous Path of Product Management (13:20)Using the planning superpower for evil (17:00)Avoiding stakeholders that get in your way (20:15)Why shouldn't we pursue the dark side of product management (22:00)How do you know when your employees are looking for impact but doing it in a self serving way - how to stop it from happening (27:00)Balance between short and long term product decisions (31:30)Todd’s talks about how the Nintendo Wii is a good example of ethical product management (36:30)Key takeaways (38:00)
Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
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On The Product Porch, every topic is a product topic. Dive into casual conversations on product management and career growth, woven with pop culture and real-life insights. Each episode offers actionable takeaways as the hosts tackle pressing questions and challenges in the product field. Settle in with Joe Ghali, Ryan Cantwell, and Todd Blaquiere!Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at
Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.
