Episodios
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Best-selling author, Air Force veteran, and psychologist Rob K. Henderson joins Erik Torenberg to explore the complex dynamics and evolutionary psychology in modern dating.
The conversation examines how evolutionary psychology explains attraction patterns, particularly women's occasional interest in men with dark triad personality traits. Henderson unpacks the phenomenon through the lens of the Luigi Mangione case, discussing how violence and aggression can paradoxically enhance male appeal due to evolutionary adaptations.
They explore dark triad attraction, pickup artist culture, partner selection research, and practical advice for men navigating relationships in the age of dating apps and challenging social dynamics.
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero
It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.
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LINKS:
Rob’s Newsletter: https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Rob-Henderson/177690581
Rob’s Best-selling book Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class:
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Troubled/Rob-Henderson/9781982168544
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FOLLOW ON X:
Rob - @robkhenderson
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
Chapters
00:00:00 Intro and Preview
00:01:41 Evolutionary psychology in relationships
00:04:17 Dark triad attraction case study: Luigi Mangione
00:10:56 Why women respond to violent men
00:14:04 Sponsor: Relationship Hero
00:15:54 Pickup artist culture evolution
00:20:40 Reconciling evolutionary psychology with being a good person
00:24:14 Partner selection research findings
00:29:49 Dark triad assortative mating patterns
00:31:13 High-leverage ways men can improve dating value
00:37:44 Age gap relationships
00:42:15 Black pill ideology and incel communities
00:49:41 Jordan Peterson vs. Andrew Tate as male influences
00:55:09 Vulnerability's role in male attraction
00:57:44 Closing thoughts on modern dating challenges
01:01:18 Wrap -
Carl Narcisse, a partner on the talent team at Andreessen Horowitz, and Whitnie Narcisse, formerly an operating partner at First Round Capital who just launched a matchmaking company, talk to Erik Torenberg about their relationship.
The couple discuss their decade-long marriage that began at a baseball game, balancing tech careers with raising three children, and applying "people ops" principles to their partnership—like maintaining a #relationshipgoals spreadsheet to track their goals. They share insights on navigating cultural differences, dating 360s, and why relationships require both spiritual alignment and a growth mindset.
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero
It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.
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LINKS:
Whitnie’s website: Whitnie.com
a16z.com: https://a16z.com/
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FOLLOW ON X:
Carl - @cnarcisse
Whitnie - @WhitnieLow
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro
(01:34) How Whitnie and Carl Met
(03:49) Their Dating Journeys Before Meeting
(07:22) Recognizing the Right Partner
(09:57) Early Relationship Challenges
(14:00) Cultural Differences
(15:50) Sponsor: Relationship Hero
(17:25) Handling Temperament Differences
(19:00) Balancing Energy Levels
(21:28) Wanting a Partner Who Leads
(23:40) Whitnie’s Evolution from Avoidant to Secure
(27:09) Applying People Ops to Marriage
(31:47) Building a Support System
(33:52) Relationship Goals and Communication
(38:26) Whitnie’s Dating Concierge Business
(44:23) The Value of 360 Reviews in Dating
(47:04) Finding the Right Partner vs. The "Perfect" Match
(53:34) Dating Process Advice
(56:04) Marriage and Commitment
(1:00:18) Navigating Challenges in Marriage
(1:02:09) Parallels Between Recruiting and Matchmaking
(1:04:30) Wrap
Chapters
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:34 How Whitnie and Carl Met
00:03:49 Their Dating Journeys Before Meeting
00:07:22 Recognizing the Right Partner
00:09:57 Early Relationship Challenges
00:14:00 Cultural Differences
00:15:50 Sponsor: Relationship Hero
00:17:25 Handling Temperament Differences
00:19:00 Balancing Energy Levels
00:21:28 Wanting a Partner Who Leads
00:23:40 Whitnie's Evolution from Avoidant to Secure
00:27:09 Applying People Ops to Marriage
00:31:47 Building a Support System
00:33:52 Relationship Goals and Communication
00:38:26 Whitnie's Dating Concierge Business
00:44:23 The Value of 360 Reviews in Dating
00:47:04 Finding the Right Partner vs. The "Perfect" Match
00:53:34 Dating Process Advice
00:56:04 Marriage and Commitment
01:00:18 Navigating Challenges in Marriage
01:02:09 Parallels Between Recruiting and Matchmaking
01:04:30 Wrap -
¿Faltan episodios?
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OpenAI Chief Product Officer Kevin Weil and Scribble Ventures' Founder & Partner Elizabeth Weil share how they've navigated demanding tech careers over 20 years while raising three children—from their whirlwind marathon meetup to building parallel paths in Silicon Valley.
They discuss how they've navigated their career decisions while raising three children, why they believe in letting kids develop natural resilience, and their theory that "life's too short not to be with someone who brings out all the good things."
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero
It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.
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LINKS:
Scribble Ventures: https://www.scribble.vc/
OpenAI: https://openai.com/
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FOLLOW ON X:
Kevin - @kevinweil
Elizabeth - @elizabeth
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Preview and Intro
(02:04) Meeting Story: Marathon Connection
(05:33) Moving Fast: From Dating to Engagement
(08:02) Partner Expectations: Finding Each Other
(10:38) Life's Too Short: Relationship Philosophy
(11:38) Relationship Chapters: Pre and Post Kids
(13:00) Career and Motherhood Balance
(16:31) Sponsor: Relationship Hero
(18:05) Elizabeth's Work Philosophy
(21:00) Kevin's Career Journey
(23:15) Growing Up Together in Tech
(26:21) Division of Labor & Parenting
(30:37) Delegation and Help at Home
(34:53) Parenting Philosophy: Raising Grounded Kids
(37:25) Safety vs. Independence
(40:05) Approach to Academic Achievement
(42:38) Education in an AI World
(46:09) Core Values for Children
(48:47) Maintaining Marriage After Kids
(50:55) Couples They Admire
(53:05) Balancing Everything: Lowering the Bar
(54:45) Final Thoughts: In It Together
(56:14) Wrap -
Curious Humans podcast host Jonny Miller and creative coach Kelly Wilde Miller sit down with Erik Torenberg and share their framework for "shortening the half-life of reactivity" of conflicts, their sacred Sunday check-in practice, and why they view marriage as "an arena for surfacing our own stuff."
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero
It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.
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RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:
Curious Humans with Jonny Miller: https://curioushumans.com/
Nervous System Mastery: nsmastery.com
Kelly Wilde Miller: https://kellywildemiller.com/
Creative Dysregulation: https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0CVBM1JTV?ref_=mr_referred_us_au_au
FOLLOW ON X:
Jonny - @jonnym1ller
Kelly - @kellycwilde
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
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TIMESTAMPS:
(01:07) Intro
(01:50) Finding Your Partner
(04:24) Transitioning from Friendship to Relationship
(07:06) Engagement Story
(14:13) Working Through Relationship Challenges
(18:36) Sponsor: Relationship Hero
(20:11) Marriage as an Arena for Growth
(26:22) Conflict Resolution Techniques
(30:49) Communication Frameworks
(45:18) Nervous System Regulation
(52:44) Sunday Partnership Check-ins
(1:00:15) Children and Community
(1:07:30) Thoughts on Polyamory
(1:10:05) Final Reflections
(1:14:00) Closing -
Philosophers Agnes Callard and Arnold Brooks bring their intellectual rigor to marriage and relationships. They sit down with Erik Torenberg to discuss their relationship's beginnings (when Agnes was Arnold's professor), their Platonic versus Aristotelian disagreements about whether marriage is something to transcend or achieve, and why relationships must "escape their beginnings" to thrive. Agnes explains why "marriage is a preparation for divorce," while Arnold argues the healthiest foundation for partnership isn't reciprocal support but simply appreciating how your partner lives—what he calls "bearing witness.".
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero
It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.
--
RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:
* New Yorker article on Agnes and Arnold, by Rachel Aviv: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/13/agnes-callard-profile-marriage-philosophy
* Arnold Brooks: http://philosophy.uchicago.edu/arnold-brooks
* Pre-order Agnes Callard's new book Open Socrates: https://wwnorton.com/books/open-socrates
* Agnes Callard on Upstream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JotaCsaG3Y
FOLLOW ON X:
Agnes - @agnescallard
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
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TIMESTAMPS:
(01:49) Intro
(02:08) Agnes' and Arnold's relationship background
(08:13) Marriage and philosophy connection
(16:38) Sponsor: Relationship Hero
(18:13) Discussion about divorce
(26:37) Relationships haunted by their beginnings
(30:18) Maintaining friendship with an ex-partner
(34:00) Advice on choosing a partner
(43:34) Conflict about ambition and contentment
(49:35) Arnold's advice to overthink marriage together
(59:42) Parenting philosophy and making children interesting
(1:04:12) Reflections
(1:08:17) Wrap -
Sasha Chapin and Cate Hall have been together for three years. Sasha is a writer and co-founder of a perfume company, while Cate is a former pro poker player and CEO of a foundation. They talk about radical honesty in relationships, why the Enneagram can help bridge extreme personalities, and commitment over connection.
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
--
SPONSOR: Relationship Hero
It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.
--
FOLLOW ON X:
Sasha - @sashachapin
Cate - @catehall
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Preview and Intro
(02:26) How They Met
(05:15) Initial Incompatibility vs Sense of Inevitability
(11:41) Complementary Extremes
(14:37) The Reverse Honeymoon Period
(15:05) Sponsor: Relationship Hero
(17:57) Reversed Gender Roles
(24:51) Radical Honesty
(29:02) Levels of Woo
(29:38) Spiritual Alignment
(31:41) The Enneagram as Relationship Tool
(45:02) Relationship Advice: Marriage Timing and Commitment
(51:47) Puzzle Difficulty vs Slush Difficulty
(57:58) Commitment Before Connection
(1:00:12) Reverse Catfishing
(1:02:00) Wrap -
Adam Gries and Rie Yano are both startup founders now building in the longevity space (Vitalism). They discuss their approach to partnership, from their serendipitous first meeting (started as a misunderstanding) to building a 50/50 marriage while running companies and raising children. They examine why great relationships shouldn't require constant work, how they maintain true equal responsibilities, and why finding the right partner parallels finding an exceptional co-founder.
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
--
SPONSOR: Relationship Hero
It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.
--
FOLLOW ON X:
Rie - @rieglobe
Adam - @adamgries
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro and Preview
(01:50) "The One": Their Unique Meeting Story
(08:25) "Co-locating": Their Innovative Long-Distance Approach
(19:39) "Work is for Fools": Their Anti-Work Philosophy
(23:05) Sponsor: Relationship Hero
(24:40) The One Hard Thing - What Relationships Are Able to Handle
(30:21) Highest Tension Moments: Working Together & Lemonade Incident
(37:23) The True 50-50 Partnership
(40:56) Systems for Success
(45:05) Practical Hacks: Google Calendars & "Airing of Grievances"
(47:19) Life board of directors meetings
(52:16) On Men Doing More
(57:13) Full Stack Parents
(59:10) Monogamy: Intentional Choice or Default?
(1:00:38) Chasing Longevity: Supporting a Partner with Unconventional Goals
(1:03:26) Money & Career Dynamics
(1:08:32) Modern Parenting Approach
(1:11:18) If You Knew Then? Tolerating Pain & Cutting Losses
(1:14:20) The Illusion of Difficulty: How to Find a Great Match
(1:17:49) Finding Your "Three Sigma" Match
(1:21:21) Closing Thoughts & Final Advice -
Tara Viswanathan (founder who recently sold her startup) and Alex Modon (startup founder) share their journey from a 15-minute Bumble date to marriage. They discuss Tara's systematic approach to dating (including analyzing 60 first dates), building a relationship while running startups, and their thoughts on balancing ambitious careers with starting a family. A rare glimpse into two founders making partnership work.
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
--
SPONSOR: Relationship Hero
It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.
--
FOLLOW ON X:
Tara - @TaraViswanathan
Alex - @alexmodon
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
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RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:
Books
The Defining Decade by Meg Jay: https://www.amazon.com/Defining-Decade-Your-Twenties-Matter/dp/0446561754
Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro and Preview
(01:41) Tara's Unconventional Quest for "The One"
(05:19) Alex's Journey to Finding Love Unintentionally
(07:53) Tara's "Crazy" Playbook: Love Hacks and Radical Self-Improvement
(12:59) Lessons Learned from Countless "I Dos" (and "I Don'ts")
(14:14) Sponsor: Relationship Hero
(15:49) A Dynamic Approach to Partnership
(18:24) Considering Age Rate and Stage of Life
(19:35) Reclaiming Authentic Power in Love and Life
(23:36) Decoding Each Other's Communication Styles
(28:41) Integrating Family and Work Adventures
(32:50) A Shared Vision for Family and Career
(36:26) Future Family Plans: Adoption
(50:39) Hot Takes on Dating
(51:26) The Core of the Decision: Ask "What Feels Right"
(55:05) Protecting Your Relationship
(59:19) The Dream: An Integrated Life
(1:03:14) Wrap -
Aike Ho (Partner, ACME Capital) and Camilla Hermann (entrepreneur) discuss "relationship yoga" - viewing intimate relationships as paths to growth through how we trigger each other. They explore how relationship patterns reveal unresolved aspects of ourselves and why finding a partner who's willing to evolve together matters more than matching a checklist of ideal traits.
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
--
SPONSOR: Relationship Hero
It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.
--
FOLLOW ON X:
Aike - @aikeho
Camilla - @CamillaFHermann
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
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LINKS
Enneagram personalities https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/
Dr. Becky "Good Inside" https://www.amazon.com/Good-Inside-Guide-Becoming-Parent/dp/0063159481
Hoffman Process https://www.hoffmaninstitute.org/
Evolution of The Internal Family Systems Model By Dr. Richard Schwartz, Ph. D.: https://ifs-institute.com/resources/articles/evolution-internal-family-systems-model-dr-richard-schwartz-ph-d
Concept of Basic Trust from Book 'Facets of Unity' by AH Almaas: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/2533/facets-of-unity-by-a-h-almaas/
TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro and Preview
(01:33) What is Relationship Yoga?
(02:22) Relationship as a Canvas for Wholeness
(04:54) Triggers and the Opportunity for Healing
(08:40) Observing and Processing Triggers
(09:38) The Role of Past Experiences
(10:51) Holding Space & Interlocking Patterns
(11:32) Using the Enneagram
(12:56) Example of Reactivity and Softness
(14:00) Reparenting & the Little Ones
(15:39) Interlocking Triggers & Internal Family Systems (IFS)
(16:39) Working with Internal Parts
(20:07) Free Will & Running Patterns
(21:00) Growth, Ego Death & Commitment in Relationships
(23:11) Seeing With Fresh Eyes
(23:16) Sponsor: Relationship Hero
(24:59) The Art of Loving & Unconditional Acceptance
(28:30) Reflections on Being Single
(34:50) Challenges & Bouncing Back
(39:44) Patterns Want to be Liberated
(42:34) Causes of Struggle in Relationships
(55:57) Tension of Triggers and Attraction
(1:00:04) Advice For Making It Fantastic
(1:02:04) Connection: Spark, Attraction, Intimacy
(1:05:23) Wrap -
Liv Boeree (former poker champion, host of the Win-Win podcast) and Igor Kurganov (poker pro, co-founder of Raising for Effective Giving) have been together for 10 years. They're masters of creative conflict, inventors of the "hiss method," and champions of rational decision-making in relationships. In this candid episode, they share their unconventional wisdom and strategies for building lasting partnerships.
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
--
SPONSOR: Relationship Hero
It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.
--
Follow on X:
Liv - @Liv_Boeree
Igor - @IgorKurganov
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
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Links:
The Win-Win Podcast: https://winwinpodcast.com/
The Passion Trap: https://www.amazon.com/Passion-Trap-Right-Unbalanced-Relationship/dp/1587361086
Erik's substack: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro and Preview
(02:21) How Liv and Igor Met
(06:04) Advice on Finding a Partner
(09:13) Friend Zone and Attraction
(13:02) Evolving Preferences
(15:03) Sponsor: Relationship Hero
(18:57) "Dumbbell Theory"
(25:43) The "Hiss" Signal
(27:53) Communication and Directness
(29:43) Relationship Rituals
(31:11) Variety and Self-Actualization
(33:16) The Passion Trap
(36:16) Thoughts on Children
(45:07) Longevity and Evolution
(47:57) Early Relationship Patterns
(50:17) Tone Policing
(51:47) Empowering Each Other
(53:34) Love Enables Choice
(57:16) Igor's Greatest Gift
(1:04:03) Identifying the Wrong Match
(1:06:14) The Future of Their Relationship
(1:07:54) Wrap -
In this week's episode, Phil Levin and Kristen Berman share the ultimate friend zone to romance success story.
What started with running quirky social experiments together (like turning a bar into a controlled study on meeting people) blossomed into a relationship that defies convention. Now this behavioral scientist and founder (Live Near Friends) runs a "friend compound" in Oakland, applies data to life's biggest decisions, and proves that sometimes the best relationships start knowing it "would be too good." Kristen and Phil share how they've built an unconventional but deeply fulfilling life together. Instead of trying to change each other, they focus on designing their environment for success.
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
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🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse
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Follow on X:
Kristen - @bermster
Phil - @levin_phil
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine - @turpentinemedia
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Links:
Kristen: https://irrationallabs.com/
Phil: https://livenearfriends.com/
Erik's substack: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:34) Relationship Differences & Learnings
(01:53) Partner Selection: Starting as Friends
(03:52) Navigating Attraction and Friendships
(05:30) Initial Connection and the "Mental Band"
(06:26) Key Lessons on Partner Selection
(09:16) Core Personality Traits and Acceptance
(10:04) Shared Values and Co-Living Vision
(14:16) Co-Living and Community Life
(18:28) Tradeoffs of Community Living
(19:13) Converting Friends & Attraction
(20:54) Chemistry and Early Relationship Stages
(21:44) Fighting and Disagreements
(24:28) Managing Conflict
(25:11) The Importance of a Good Partner
(26:53) Decisions Around Having Children
(30:07) Stress and Decision-Making Structures
(31:55) Careers as a Couple & Childcare
(38:39) Unique Fights & Rituals for Forgiveness
(40:46) Lessons from Dan Ariely
(42:45) Behavior Change and Life Design
(49:25) "Thieves" Friendship Hack
(50:23) Vision for the Future
(56:12) Career Priorities
(57:53) Taboo Topics and Memorable Conversations
(1:00:00) Baby Number Two
(1:00:39) Wrap -
We rarely get to hear how high-powered tech couples actually make relationships work. In this remarkably candid conversation, Delian Asparouhov (Founders Fund partner and Co-Founder of Varda Space Industries) and author Nadia Asparouhov pull back the curtain on their unique approach to love and commitment. From their memorable first date featuring frantically-eaten burrata to building a space company while starting a family, they share how they've figured out what really matters - and why sometimes the best relationship advice is to talk less, not more. Together with Erik Torenberg, they dig into everything from their unconventional take on conflict resolution to what it's actually like balancing a growing family with ambitious work in tech.
Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co
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🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse
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Follow on X:
Nadia - @nayafia
Delian - @zebulgar
Erik - @eriktorenberg
Turpentine Podcasts - @turpentinemedia
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Links:
Nadia's writing: https://nadia.xyz/
Delian's site: https://delian.io/
Erik's substack: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Preview and Intro
(00:46) Origin of Modern Relationships
(01:48) "Make marriages great again"
(02:59) Fighting about the Eight Sleep mattress
(06:27) Handling unvoiced feelings
(10:05) Prison metaphor
(10:47) Early stages of the relationship
(14:03) First date and first impressions
(15:58) The burrata incident
(20:54) Ranking relationship priorities
(22:59) Finding the sweet spot in a relationship
(27:10) Communication and commitment
(32:46) Parenthood drudgery
(37:09) Debating young parenthood
(42:37) Having children
(49:32) Building 'an aristocracy'
(54:20) Balancing identity and motherhood
(56:05) Growing together through changes
(58:11) Tough guy cries at space movies
(58:41) Wrap -
Introducing "Modern Relationships" a podcast about how people in tech actually make relationships work. Preview from episode 1 with Delian Asparouhov (Founders Fund, Varda Space Technology) and Nadia Asparouhova (author), interviewed by Erik Torenberg
