Episodios
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When private equity buys online community platforms, who wins? What about if those platforms were built on open source software? Does the company continue to be a good citizen of the open source community that helped build the product?
History has shown us that it is often the community managers and pros who lose. They might not just lose a good platform though, they might lose their job.
Lincoln Russell has an interesting perspective on this topic. He joined Vanilla Forums, an open source community software platform, as a senior developer in 2011, having already used it for a couple of years. He left the company in 2020, then the director of engineering. Lincoln has continued to use the software. Vanilla Forums was subsequently purchased by Higher Logic, a company lacking a meaningful history of open source contributions.
As a matter of disclosure, both Higher Logic and Vanilla Forums are past sponsors of the show.
Lincoln and I also discuss:
How Vanilla Forumsâ open source ethos shifted over time The importance of data migration standards for community software Is community software best built by small businesses?Big Quotes
Your community software provider must answer this (16:38): âThe first question you should ask a [community software] vendor is: How easy is it to leave you? Itâs not a fun question to ask, but the answer is crucial to me. Itâs a deal-breaker question.â -Patrick OâKeefe
Some community platforms try to lock their customer data into the platform (18:07): âWhen [a client is] onboarding [to new community software during the] initial year or two, they donât care about their data export. Itâs at the end. Thatâs a long-term reputational issue about how people talk about their experiences. We saw that with [community software] competitors. We had some trouble with a couple of competitors in trying to get the data from them and spent way more hours than particular customers were worth â just on principle, honestly â getting the data out for them because we were so personally offended. At least I was.â -Lincoln Russell
When you arenât selling community software to the people who will actually use it (20:37): âIn the [community software] sales process, you identify stakeholders â people that are decision makers. A lot of the time they werenât a community manager. A lot of the time it was a director of technology, it was a CEO, or other positions, and that warps your roadmap.
âWhen those are the people that [the] sales team [is] sitting in front of, day in and day out, and youâre pitching an improved moderation queue, they want this button that does this thing. Youâre like, âBut thatâs stupid.â But it doesnât matter. If those are the people youâre selling to, [with] their own idea of community that doesnât actually align with community management because they have internal business goals, and all they want to do are check those boxes.â -Lincoln RussellWhy community professionals should drive community platform choice (22:10): âAlthough Iâd like to believe, ego-wise, that I could make a community out of whatever piece of garbage application you throw in front of me, I know the software can either help me or hurt me, and itâs tough when youâre making dinner with someone elseâs ingredients.â -Patrick OâKeefe
Great ideas need great communicators (23:44): âThe biggest issue with charting a course is you need a really clear vision, and you also need someone who can articulate that vision a lot, and over and over again, to the right people in the right circumstances. You need an external marketer. All of us in engineering at Vanilla [were] all introverts. None of us were going to conferences and giving talks about our vision for community software. It just wasnât in us to do that. I think we were poorer off in that we had some really good ideas, and could have shifted the conversation a bit, but we didnât put our energy there because that was a lot of energy.â -Lincoln Russell
Protecting your culture makes you unique from the big social media platforms (33:43): âI think this idea of being more private and being very selective about what you present to the world, and having an internal culture that is protected from the internet â not promoted to the internet â is the future of these independent community spaces because thatâs the space those [bigger] platforms cannot touch.â -Lincoln Russell
Community drives great software projects (37:04): âTo build great software, like the great software projects that are going to outlive me, you need a community of people committed to working on them for long periods of time. [You need] to replace those people when they leave, but you have to have a system to keep that going, not just like, [we] got great five minds in a room and they did a thing, and then they cash out at the end. Thatâs not sustainable.â -Lincoln Russell
About Lincoln RussellLincoln Russell is the vice president of engineering for uConnect, which builds virtual career centers for colleges and universities to help students get better jobs. Earlier in his career, he spent 8 and a half years at Vanilla Forums, starting as a senior developer in 2011 and leaving in 2020 as the director of engineering.
Related Links Lincolnâs website Higher Logic Vanilla, from Higher Logic uConnect, where Lincoln is vice president of engineering Automattic, the company behind WordPress.com WordPress.org, the home of the WordPress open source community Arlington-Based Higher Logic Acquires Montrealâs Vanilla by Richard Foster for Virginia Business Nitro Porter, Lincolnâs community platform migration tool Lincolnâs blog post announcing Nitro Porter Matt Mecham of Invision Community Matt Mecham on Community Signal Transcript View on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment or send me an email. Thank you for listening.
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Rebecca Newton is a legend of the online community profession. After 30 years, she has retired. But what does it mean when we retire from this work?
Her career began AOL in 1994, building communities and managing a massive volunteer program. Among her numerous stops, Rebecca found a focus in child safety, leading such efforts for Sulake (the company behind Habbo Hotels and Disneyâs Virtual Magic Kingdom), Mind Candy (Moshi Monsters), and most recently SuperAwesome, a provider of tools for safer, responsible digital engagement with young people, who was acquired by Epic Games.
A program manager for community in 1997, a community director in 2001, a chief community officer in 2007: Rebecca has held all of the titles. Along the way, she has paved a path for the community profession, pushing us higher in corporate environments and creating valuable resources for us. Most notably, her 24 year stewardship of the e-mint listserv for community pros, an iconic resource that has helped countless community facilitators.
After such a career, whatâs it like to step away from full-time work? What goes through the mind of a retiring community pro? Thatâs what weâll discuss, plus:
How do you prepare for retirement, as a community pro? What will Rebecca miss? What wonât she miss? The least and most effective pieces of legislation passed during Rebeccaâs careerBig Quotes
What will Rebecca miss most about being a full-time community pro? (17:32): âIâm going to miss working with people online the most. Itâs a different animal than working with people offline, and I did plenty of that before I started in the online world. ⊠Everybody thought they invented remote working. Iâve had remote teams since 1994, so itâs not new. Iâm going to really miss that because thereâs a special culture in the online world, as you know, that is really hard to describe, or itâs hard for me to describe but is not like the offline world. Itâs like being in a special club, in a secret club. Thatâs how it feels to me.â -Rebecca Newton
What wonât she miss? (23:07): âI wonât miss ⊠people naively thinking they know better than everybody who built the widget. Iâve heard the conversations. âOh, they canât let go. They donât know how to let go. They donât know how to grow. They donât know how to do this.â Then I would think, âOkay, well, weâll see whoâs not growing in a year, so Iâm going to go looking for another job because I know in a year this thingâs not going to exist.'â -Rebecca Newton
The cyclical trend of online community obsession (31:09): âI remember in 2000 when dentists were [asking], âDo I need an online community?â There was a trend of, âOh, itâs online community,â because of the success at AOL. I was like, âNo. Youâre a dentist.'â -Rebecca Newton
Overreaction from government officials who arenât active online (34:21): âIâm not saying anything about how smart [government decision makers] are, about how great their intentions were, or their abilities in the world. [But] if youâre not [active online], if youâre not a heavy user, if youâre not in the kidâs world using it, how can you possibly [make good decisions]? Thatâs what we see in Great Britain, in the EU. Something happens to one person under 16, they want to have 27 laws about it. Because this thing happened.â -Rebecca Newton
Kids want to collaborate, they want a job (38:40): âThatâs the biggest thing I learned about working with kids. The very first thing when they get online or game in an app, whatever it is, [they say] âI want a job. Can I have a job? Letâs do this together. Letâs do that together.'â -Rebecca Newton
When legislation goes too far (39:18): âOver-regulation is detrimental. I think all it does is create a whole lot of jobs for people to do a lot of stuff that nobodyâs ever going to look at. Thatâs a really rude thing for me to say, but I believe that.â -Rebecca Newton
About Rebecca NewtonRebecca Newton has spent 30 years in the commercial internet industry. As head of digital trust and community, Rebecca led online community, online safety, moderation, engagement, and customer services efforts at SuperAwesome (of Epic Games) from 2015 to 2023. Prior to joining SuperAwesome, Rebecca worked at Mind Candy as the chief community & safety officer, serving over 140 million registered (young) users.
From 2001 to 2007, she worked at Sulake (the company behind Habbo Hotels) as the global director of community for the worldâs largest teen virtual world site, spanning 24 countries. She began her online community career with America Online in 1994, where she wore many hats, and finally landed as the program manager for AOLâs community leader program.
Among her contributions to the discipline of online community, Rebecca co-founded VirComm, the London-based annual conference for online community professionals in 2011, and the e-mint community management listserv. She serves on boards and committees for numerous organizations, including AgeCheq, the Archewell Foundation, and DitchTheLabel.org.
Related Links Rebeccaâs previous appearance on Community Signal Rebeccaâs website e-mint, a community management listserv that Rebecca has managed since 2000 AgeCheq, the Archewell Foundation, and DitchTheLabel.org, organizations that Rebecca provides guidance to eWorld, an Apple service that launched in 1994 and provided a community feature Michael Acton Smith, who was once Rebeccaâs boss The Childrenâs Online Privacy Protection Act, the Communications Decency Act, and Section 230, which were all pieces of legislation passed during Rebeccaâs career Virtual Magic Kingdom, an online game created by Disney and Sulake, where Rebecca led community and safety efforts Jenna Woodul, potentially the first person with the chief community officer title Jenna Woodul on Community Signal MITâs Scratch community, which is managed by someone that Rebecca has mentored, who was initially a member of one of the communities she was responsible for Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment or send me an email. Thank you for listening.
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Online community consultants arenât unlike consultants for any other area of work. Some are ethical, smart, and talented, and some arenât. Consultants also donât often make great guests for the show because they view it as yet another lead generational funnel for them to shout generalities into.
But hopefully an exception is this episode with community consultant Jenny Weigle. On it, we discuss how being humble is often at odds with how many consultants promote themselves, as they place a certain importance on appearing authoritative and revelatory, even if that isnât actually correct in the context of the history of this work.
Can you even be a community consultant or an online community resource if you havenât taken a concept pioneered 30 years ago and thrown your logo on it?
We also discuss:
An update on past guest Tim McDonaldâs quest for a liver donor Self-promotion by community consultants Community professionals do roadshows, but are they ever invited to roadshows by other departments?Big Quotes
When consultants and resources claim general concepts (3:57): âIâve seen plenty of [community] consultants and resources pop up over my 25 years and throw a logo on something. The commitment curve, the activity ladder, the mountain of progression⊠how many different upward-facing shapes can we throw a logo on? Iâve seen a lot of that, and Iâve seen people claim something that has either been claimed decades ago or no one should be laying claim to.â -Patrick OâKeefe
How much of the talk in community work is brand new? (6:01): âThere are very few things that happen in our field today that make me pause and say, âWow,â either to myself or out loud. When Iâm putting out my materials and what Iâm personally working on, Iâm just doing whatâs top of mind and mainly itâs influenced by what my clients need at the time.â -Jenny Weigle
The danger AI poses to community creativity (15:19): â[With ChatGPT and similar AI tools,] Iâm worried about elements of communities where creativity is usually needed. An easy example is the writing of content, the writing of posts, the writing of conversations, and how those things start. Iâm worried about everyone sounding the same. Iâm worried about everyone getting the same prompts. Iâm worried about everyone rewriting their posts using the same tool that learns on the same data set, and will all move them closer to the same center. Ultimately, thatâs the death of community.â -Patrick OâKeefe
Why community pros should read hospitality books (26:05): âThere were so many things [that community builders can learn from the hospitality industry]. I was in awe as I turned each page of Danny Meyerâs book because he paid so much attention to wanting to know his customerâs preferences, their likes, dislikes, what was relevant going on in their lives at the moment, what would bring them in the door, and what would keep them from coming. These are all things that community managers are concerned about with their online communities, as well.â -Jenny Weigle
About Jenny WeigleJenny Weigle has been creating, executing, and reviewing strategies for online communities for more than 10 years. Sheâs worked with more than 100 brands on various aspects of their community strategy and implementations, including launch, migration, programming, and planning. These brands include, Airbnb, Google, HP, Intuit, Pinterest, REI, Samsung, Sephora, Splunk, Stubhub, and Visa.
When sheâs not geeking out on community strategy, Jenny spends time in Los Angeles with her partner, John, and stepdaughter. In her personal life, she is a proud member of a number of communities, including Southern California Gator Club, Spiritual Sisters of Los Angeles (which she founded), Oak Park LA (for CrossFit), Sofar Sounds, and D23: The Official Disney Fan Club.
Related Links Jennyâs website Tim McDonald on Community Signal Good news from Tim! TimsLiver.com Jennyâs Substack The Hospitality Books That Made Me a Better Community Professional by Jenny Danny Meyerâs book, Setting the Table TV shows that deal with hospitality and customer service: Hotel Impossible, Bar Rescue, Kitchen Nightmares, and The Profit The 2-Hour Cocktail Party by Nick Gray Be Our Guest by The Disney Institute with Theodore Kinni Jennyâs Community Roadshow template Jenny on LinkedIn Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment or send me an email. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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Bodies arenât moderated equally on the internet. Content moderation efforts, especially those at large, mainstream platforms, can suffer from policy-based bias that results in moderation centering a cisgender gaze. This reinforcing of heteronormativity can leave some of your most vulnerable community members â and potential community members â feeling alienated, ostracized, and simply unwelcome.
Last year, in her role as CX escalations supervisor at Grindr, Vanity Brown co-authored a whitepaper, Best Practices for Gender-Inclusive Content Moderation. Insightful, with a straight forward approach to making content moderation just a bit better, I found that it was also a validation of good, thoughtful moderation that has been going on for a long time.
Vanity joins the show to talk about these efforts, which are tempered by a realistic acknowledgement of the limitations of this work, and how our need to be in other places (like app stores) can often slow down the progress weâd like to make.
We also discuss:
Why itâs not our job to guess the gender of our members The state of AI trust and safety tools ChatGPT, Midjourney, and how much to worry about themBig Quotes
How bodies are moderated differently online (2:16): âWe want folks to express themselves and their sexuality joyfully, without judgment. Of course, without any harm. But what does that look like? ⊠There traditionally are [community] guidelines for females and guidelines for males, but the world is changing and folks are becoming more in tune with who they are, and we want to be able to treat them equally and let folks, especially I emphasize our trans users, who are uploading photos ⊠and if they are showing the top, then theyâre considered a woman if they have female-presenting breasts versus male. There are just a lot of nuances there that we saw as we were moderating content from a community who is very fluid with their gender expression.â -Vanity Brown
When do kinks create a moderation issue? (6:38): â[Kinks vs. crimes get] sticky when the kink looks like a crime. ⊠Everything is about sex and kinks at Grindr. With this mass of kinky stuff, which of these things are harmful? I often echo that, in my work, Iâm always driven ⊠to do no harm. At the end of the day, are we harming someone? ⊠Do we have a responsibility to protect them and keep them safe? As we continue to build trust with the community, we have to realize that folks are adults, too.â -Vanity Brown
Empathy sits at the core of good moderation (14:38): âIf you canât be empathetic for the things you are not ⊠then youâre not really doing good thoughtful community moderation, trust and safety work. ⊠Ultimately, if you want to be truly great at this work, you have to protect the people who arenât you.â -Patrick OâKeefe
What can community pros learn from dating apps? (24:23): â[Community, moderation, trust, and safety pros] can learn from dating apps on the level of how personal and sensitive dating apps are in the content youâre sending back and forth. Folks using dating apps, a lot of times their heartstrings are attached, and their heartstrings are attached on a dating app, but not necessarily Amazon or shopping at Macyâs. ⊠Itâs just important to look at folks with a microscope and treat them with kindness as those in dating apps hopefully are doing when theyâre handling their customers.â -Vanity Brown
About Vanity BrownVanity Brown is the CX escalations supervisor for Grindr, where she has worked in trust and safety for over 2 years, following more than 7 years at eHarmony. Vanity manages an escalations team of specialists devoted to handling the most complex cases that come through Grindrâs support channels.
Related Links Vanity on LinkedIn Grindr, where Vanity is CX escalations supervisor Best Practices for Gender-Inclusive Content Moderation whitepaper, co-authored by Alice Hunsberger, Vanity, and Lily Galib, which I found via Juliet Shen Grindrâs community guidelines OpenAIâs efforts to identify AI-generated text, which were only able to identify âlikelyâ AI-written text 26% of the time, a bit more than the approximately 10% I mentioned during the show Love Light Community, a youth choir founded by Vanity, dedicated to âenriching the lives of youth and families in underserved communities through the transforming power of music and the artsâ Love Light Community on Instagram Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment or send me an email. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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Safeguarding is a term used in Ireland and the United Kingdom that covers efforts to protect the health, wellbeing, and human rights of people, especially children and those who are otherwise vulnerable.
At Diabetes UK, four people alternate by week as the safeguarding lead, helping to protect those that the charity comes in contact with. One of them is Josh Poncil, the online community and learning manager. Among his responsibilities is Diabetes UKâs online forum.
On this episode, we talk about safeguarding and knowing if youâve done the right thing at the end of the day, plus:
What is considered âtoo technicalâ for the average member to answer in a diabetes community? How Josh writes for a vulnerable audience Moderation decisions that could trigger a meltdownBig Quotes
When veteran members go bad (18:39): â[After 25 years in content moderation,] I really believe that the most stressful situation is when an experienced member takes a turn for the worst. ⊠Itâs painful because they are an example to other people in the community. Especially new members who see their posts and say, âThat member has this number of contributions and has been in the community this long. If they [post] that and itâs up still, thatâs probably how this community behaves.'â -Patrick OâKeefe
An example of safeguarding in an online community (23:43): âI had someone on the forum saying, âIâve just been diagnosed a couple of weeks ago. Iâve barely eaten.â Thatâs like an alarm ringing bells in my head. Iâll take the lead and private message them. ⊠âIs everything okay? Could you please contact the helpline or tell us whatâs going on?â
âLetâs say they got back to me saying, âYes, I havenât eaten anything. I donât feel well. I feel dizzy.â Then Iâll contact back, âDo you need me to call an ambulance?â Sometimes theyâll go back to me, âYes, hereâs my address, my telephone number.â Iâll ring [the emergency service] 999. I have to be careful what I say at the beginning because of my accent. Iâm American, but I live in London. I have to make sure Iâm not coming off as a scam. Iâm calling from a charity. I have a safeguarding concern.â -Josh PoncilWith safeguarding, you regularly are questioning if you did the right thing (24:53): âIâve had someone on the forum saying, âMy mom is in quite a worrying state. Sheâs scared to go to the hospital. Sheâs dizzy, sheâs not coherent. Iâm scared she hasnât been testing for blood sugars.â On my end, Iâve contacted the daughter, âPlease get your mom to [Accident and Emergency]. It sounds like she needs medical attention.â Theyâve got back to me, âThank you for getting in touch, but my mom didnât make it.â This affected me, and it hit me quite hard not knowing if I did the right thing. I have to just take a moment of, âDid I make the right choice? Is there anything else I could do at this time?'â -Josh Poncil
About Josh PoncilFor the last 4 years, Josh Poncil has been the online community and learning manager for Diabetes UK, after a stint at Blood Cancer UK. He went to school for creative writing and journalism, before transitioning to community by way of social media management.
Related Links Sponsor: Higher Logic, the community platform for community managers Josh on LinkedIn Diabetes UK, where Josh is online community and learning manager Diabetes UKâs online forum Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment or send me an email. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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Employee resource groups (ERGs) can do a lot to create a greater sense of belonging at your organization. But the folks who volunteer to lead these groups may find themselves in need of help when it comes to utilizing perhaps the greatest tool at their disposal: Your internal employee community platform.
As a community strategist within large organizations, Lori Harrison-Smith has trained employees to help them get the most out of these platforms.
She has also managed two large migrations, both from Jive, and that has led her to have a (in her words) cynical perspective on the resources made available for these migrations, by both companies and the software vendors themselves.
Lori and Patrick discuss:
Doing something for an employee vs. showing them how to do it themselves How much the ERG leaders sheâs worked with have dipped into moderation The short timeframes given to internal community migrationsBig Quotes
Whatâs really driving an internal community migration deadline (22:59): âWhen [an internal employee community] migration is happening, [companies are often] trying to save some money while theyâre at it, and theyâve got this deadline. Itâs usually a contract signature that is driving that deadline. Thereâs never enough time. Itâs like, âWe need to get off of this because the contract expires in November.â Itâs May when weâre having this conversation because thatâs when everybody started looking at the balance sheet.â -Lori Harrison-Smith
Instead of adjustments to their platforms, vendors can push âchange managementâ (31:52): âWith the different [internal community] vendors Iâve worked with, Iâve always had great relationships with them. The people have always been great and nice, but thereâs just these struggles as a community manager because Iâm hearing what the employees are saying. Iâm hearing them talk about the pain points theyâre experiencing. Then you go back to the vendor, and a lot of it is, âWell, change management. You just got to get them used to this new system.'â -Lori Harrison-Smith
The downside of big dollar value community software contracts (33:57): âMaybe [the consolidation in the community software space is] a case for lower-cost platforms and open source solutions that may seem a little harder upfront but ultimately allow you to be a little more nimble internally as opposed to the sunk cost that makes you feel like youâre in a relationship you could never leave because you need to get that money back out of it.â -Patrick OâKeefe
About Lori Harrison-SmithLori Harrison-Smithâs career began in advertising, where she worked as a copywriter and editor. She found her real passion, though, when she transitioned to a role where she launched and supported an 8,000-strong employee community. Since 2011, Lori has held community roles within large organizations, leading platform updates and migrations, developing content and engagement programs, advocating for user experience, and guiding and supporting employees around communication and knowledge sharing.
She is currently the collaboration network manager at VMware, following community roles at Motorola Solutions and Steelcase.
Related Links Lori Harrison-Smith on LinkedIn VMware, where Lori is the collaboration network manager Employee Resource Groups Create a Sense of Belonging, Foster Engagement by Stephen Miller for SHRM Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment or send me an email. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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As we celebrate Community Signalâs 7th birthday, Patrick takes questions from Community Signal listeners and supporters in this first ever âAsk Patrick Anythingâ episode of the show.
Questions include:
If everything had worked with CNN+, what would community look like for the platform? Would you rather be a working community professional or a community consultant? Will we ever see community leaders in the C-suite as the norm?2023 will be Patrickâs 25th year of community work, so this is an opportunity to reflect on that passage of time. A lot has changed and, surprisingly, some things havenât.
Joining Patrick to ask the questions and dig deeper is previous guest Jared Smith. They also cover:
The early promise of CNN+âs Interview Club How community moderation tools have changed over the years Why community isnât special when it comes to the C-suite Big QuotesYou have to commit to be successful with D2C products (11:55): âIf you build interactive products and kill them after three weeks, itâs hard to prove out anything. Itâs hard to build out loyalty. Itâs hard to build out a D2C product if youâre not willing to commit.â -Patrick OâKeefe
The magic of the unexpected in media products (13:04): âI think there is something magical that can happen when you take some of the expected nature of television or media, of what we expect is going to happen, and you throw the consumer, the community, the members, the subscribers into that. You give them the freedom to make other things happen.â -Patrick OâKeefe
Operators drive moderator tool development more than platforms (22:24): â[When it comes to moderator tools], itâs often the community of people who need something driving it more so than the platforms themselves.â -Patrick OâKeefe
Developers still focus on the frontend more than the administrative backend (23:35): âItâs a clichĂ© to say that software developers focus on the frontend and the user experience and not so much the admin and moderation experience. Thatâs a clichĂ© in our business. I think that is largely the case with some exceptions. Those exceptions tend to be people who have run communities themselves or who have a really good foundational understanding of the web from being in it for so long.â -Patrick OâKeefe
If you want to make a difference in moderator tooling, start with the communities that donât have money (23:58): âI get pitched by developers, and I always tell them that the way to make change in this industry is to make your product available to the people who donât have anything. The Fortune 500s of the world are always going to have money, and theyâre always going to have engineers. They can figure their way around problems and pay for solutions. Most communities, 99.9% of people, donât have any money. Thatâs where you make change.â -Patrick OâKeefe
Artificial intelligence isnât a moderation panacea (24:36): âIf you think about it [going back 25 years], forums are not dead and the mod tools are basically the same that we had. Remove user, close thread, things like that, a lot of that stuff. Itâs the same. I also donât think itâs a bad thing. If it ainât broke, donât fix it. One of the things about these AIs is sometimes they get it really, really wrong in really offensive ways. You still need that human element to counter that.â -Jared Smith
Banning Andrew Anglin is not brave, itâs obvious (27:09): âWhen [Elon Musk decides] to unban Andrew Anglin, whoâs arguably the most prominent real nazi on the internet, the founder of The Daily Stormer, the most prominent nazi publication on the internet [that makes Twitter a place I am less likely to engage]. ⊠Andrew Anglin can join any platform I own and heâll be banned. Thatâs not a brave thing. Thatâs not a talking point or like, âWow, thatâs amazing.â Itâs obvious. Itâs not an amazing thing.â -Patrick OâKeefe
Hyping the chief community officer role isnât helpful (39:46): âWeâve seen these tweets that are like, âHalf of the Fortune 500 will have chief community officers in the next 10 years,â or â10% of this or all big companies or all the Fortune 100 or the future of companies will be a chief community officer.â Itâs all hype. Itâs all nonsense. For the most part, itâs to encourage hype in our industry. I donât see it as healthy. I donât see it as good. I donât see it as aspirational. I donât see those people as friends or allies of the work.â -Patrick OâKeefe
Be wary of the hype (41:42): âI donât trust anyone who says chief community officers are the future of community, that thereâs going to be one at every big company. Itâs always hype. Itâs always because they have some financially-vested interest in community work proliferating in that way or at least sounding like your friend. They want to sound like theyâre in your corner or theyâre your ally because there is some financial incentive tied to that for them long-term.â -Patrick OâKeefe
About Jared Smith
Jared Smith is a manager of software engineering at BoomTown in Charleston, SC, leading engineering teams and encouraging developer career growth, including a ten-year stint working on and eventually leading a team of engineers dedicated to implementing WordPress for real estate agent websites. In addition to BoomTown, Jared runs @chswx (shorthand for Charleston Weather) and the chswx.com blog, where he writes forecasts and disseminates National Weather Service alerts for the Charleston, SC metro area. Over nearly 15 years, @chswx has emerged as a key catalyst in the weather conversation, not only acting as a conduit for sending alerts but also for receiving reports in real-time, improving situational awareness for public, media, and NWS warning forecasters alike.
Related Links Jared Smith, our guest host BoomTown, where Jared is manager of software engineering Charleston Weather (including @chswx on Twitter), a project that Jared runs Wesley Faulkerâs appearance on Community Signal Wikipedia page for CNN+, the streaming service Patrick helped launch A clip from the Interview Club interview with Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Dr. Anthony Fauci Bassey Etim on LinkedIn, who has been on several Community Signal episodes Mastodon, free, open source decentralized social media platform Ryan Hall, a weather YouTuber Brad Williamsâ appearance on Community Signal Invision Community and Discourse, two community software options recommended by Patrick ChatGPT Community Signal episode covering Elon Muskâs acquisition of Twitter COPPA, Childrenâs Online Privacy Protection Act DMCA, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment or send me an email. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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Elon Muskâs presence has loomed over Twitter since he announced plans to purchase the platform. And for these few weeks that heâs been in charge, many concerns have proven to be justified. Musk laid off 3,700 employees, and then 4,400 contractors. He is firing those who are critical of him. The verification process, perhaps one of Twitterâs most trusted features, has been unraveled. Heâs offered severance to those who donât want to be part of âextremely hardcoreâ Twitter. Following the results of a Twitter poll, he reinstated the account of Donald Trump, who was suspended from the platform for his role in inciting the January 6th attacks.
So, what happens now? What of the many social movements that manifested on Twitter? While some movements and followings may see new manifestations on other platforms, not everything will be completely recreated. For example, as writer Jason Parham explains, âwhatever the destination, Black Twitter will be increasingly difficult to recreate.â
In this episode of Community Signal, Patrick speaks to three experts: Sarah T. Roberts, associate professor in the Department of Information Studies at UCLA, trust and safety consultant Ralph Spencer, and Omar Wasow, assistant professor in UC Berkeleyâs Department of Political Science and co-founder of BlackPlanet, about the current state and future of Twitter. They dissect the realities facing the platform today including content moderation, loss of institutional knowledge, and uncertainty about Twitterâs infrastructure, but also emphasize the importance of Twitter as a social utility for news and more.
This episode also touches on:
The reality of moderating a platform like Twitter What platforms actually mean when they say theyâre for âfree speechâ How Musk tanked the value of verification on TwitterBig Quotes
On the future of content moderation at Twitter (8:28): âThereâs no way possible with the cuts [Musk has] made that heâs going to be able to do any type of content moderation. ⊠[He] isnât going to have anybody who remotely begins to know to how to do that [legal compliance and related work].â âRalph Spencer
Sarah T. Robertsâ moderation challenge for Elon Musk (11:19): âI want Elon Musk to spend one day as a frontline production content moderator, and then get back to this [Community Signal] crew about how that went. Let us know what you saw. Share with us how easy it was to stomach that. Were you able to keep up with the expected pace at Twitter? Could you ⊠make good decisions over 90% of the time, over 1,000, 2,000 times a day? Could you do that all the while seeing animals being harmed, kids being beat on, [and] child sexual exploitation material?â â@ubiquity75
Bumper sticker wisdom doesnât make good policy (15:46): âEverything [Musk has said about free speech] has had the quality of good bumper stickers but is totally divorced from reality, and that doesnât bode well, obviously.â â@owasow
The responsibility in leading a social media platform (19:41): âOne thing that we are seeing in real-time [at Twitter] is what a danger there is in having one individual â especially a very privileged individual who does not live in the same social milieu as almost anyone else in the world â one very privileged individualâs ability to be the arbiter of ⊠these profoundly contested ideological notions of something like free speech which again is continually misapplied in this realm.â â@ubiquity75
Muskâs peddling of conspiracy theories (20:29): â[Musk is] running around tweeting that story about Nancy Pelosiâs husband, the false article about what happened between him and his attacker. What kind of example is that to set? ⊠What it is to me is like this kid who has way too much money, and he found a new toy he wants to play with.â âRalph Spencer
Leading with humility (21:23): â[If youâre running a site like Twitter,] you have to have a âsmall dâ democratic personality, which is to say you really have to be comfortable with a thousand voices flourishing, a lot of them being critical of you, and thatâs not something that you take personally.â â@owasow
There are always limits on speech (23:50): âWhen you declare that your product, your site, your platform, your service is a free speech zone, there is always going to be a limit on that speech. ⊠[CSAM] is the most extreme example that we can come up with, but that is content moderation. To remove that material, to disallow it, to enforce the law means that there is a limit on speech, and there ought to be in that case. If thereâs a limit on speech, it is by definition not a free speech site. Then we have to ask, well, what are the limits, and who do they serve?â â@ubiquity75
âFree speechâ platforms are not a thing (25:25): âWhen I hear people invoke free speech on a for-profit social media site, not only does that not exist today, it never has existed, and it never will exist. Letâs deal with what reality is actually giving us and talk about that instead of these fantasies that actually are pretty much not good for anyone involved.â â@ubiquity75
The social weight and trust that verification brought to interactions on Twitter (32:52): â[Twitter] has outsized social impact, whether itâs in the political arena, whether itâs in social movements, whether itâs in celebrity usage, all of these things have been true. In terms of political movements, the good, bad, the ugly. We saw an insurrection against the United States launched by the President of the United States on Twitter, so itâs not all rosy, but the point is that Twitter had this outsized power and part of that could be attributed ⊠to this verification process that let a lot of high profile folks, prominent individuals, media organizations, other kinds of people in the zeitgeist or in the public eye, engage with a certain sense of security.â â@ubiquity75
How does Twitter sustain its infrastructure amidst the mass layoffs and resignations? (39:18): âWe have good reason to fear that [Twitterâs] infrastructure is going to get considerably worse over time. [Musk has] fired enough of the people. ⊠In a lot of ways, [Twitter is] like a telephone company. Itâs got a lot of boring infrastructure that it has to maintain so that itâs reliable. [Musk has] taken a bunch of these pillars or blocks in the Jenga stack and knocked them out, and itâs a lot more wobbly now.â â@owasow
Muskâs Twitter user experience is not the common one (48:23): â[Musk is] obsessed with bots and spam, but why is that such a compulsion for him? Well, he has 100-plus million followers, and when he looks at his replies, thereâs probably a lot of bots and spam there. Thatâs not where I live because Iâm a civilian. His perspective is distorted in a way partly by the investment around him but partly also by just being so way out of proportion to almost any other human on Earth.â â@owasow
About Our GuestsOmar Wasow is an assistant professor in UC Berkeleyâs Department of Political Science. His research focuses on race, politics, and statistical methods. Previously, Omar co-founded BlackPlanet, an early leading social network, and was a regular technology analyst on radio and television. He received a PhD in African American Studies, an MA in government, and an MA in statistics from Harvard University.
Ralph Spencer has been working to make online spaces safer for more than 20 years, starting with his time as a club editorial specialist (message board editor) at Prodigy, and then graduating to America Online. During his time at AOL, he was in charge of all issues involving Child Sexual Abuse Material or CSAM. The evidence that Ralph and the team he worked with in AOLâs legal department compiled contributed to numerous arrests and convictions of individuals for the possession and distribution of CSAM. He currently works as a freelance trust and safety consultant.
Sarah T. Roberts is an associate professor in the Department of Information Studies at UCLA. She holds a PhD from the iSchool at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Her book on commercial content moderation, Behind the Screen, was released in 2019 from the Yale University Press. She served as a consultant, too, and is featured in the award-winning documentary The Cleaners. Dr. Roberts sits on the board of the IEEE Annals of the History of Computing, was a 2018 Carnegie Fellow, and a 2018 recipient of the EFF Barlow Pioneer Award for her groundbreaking research on content moderation of social media.
Related Links Elon Musk takes control of Twitter and immediately ousts top executives (via NPR) Omar Wasowâs website Omar Wasow on Twitter BlackPlanet.com, founded by Wasow Ralph Spencer on LinkedIn Sarah T. Robertsâ website Sarah T. Roberts on Twitter Behind the Screen: Content Moderation in the Shadows of Social Media, by Sarah T. Roberts Note from Patrick: After 5 years, this is Carolâs final episode as editorial lead on Community Signal. Weâll miss you, Carol! The Twitter Rules Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace by Lawrence Lessig Elon Musk says Twitter will have a âcontent moderation councilâ (via The Verge) Democratic U.S. senators accuse Musk of undermining Twitter, urge FTC probe (via Reuters) We got Twitter âverifiedâ in minutes posing as a comedian and a senator (via The Washington Post) How Much Did Twitterâs Verification Chaos Cost Insulin Maker Eli Lilly and Twitter Itself? (via Gizmodo) Patrickâs (somewhat sarcastic) Twitter thread about the policies he hoped the platform would put in place to address Muskâs conflicts of interest Saturday Night Liveâs content moderation council sketch Transcript View on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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As Zendeskâs customer base and product offerings have grown, so has its community. The Zendesk community started in 2008, under the support organization, as a space for people to ask and answer questions about using the product. Since then, it has shifted departments multiple times, leading to changes in KPIs and core purpose.
Nicole Saunders, the companyâs director of community, joins the show to explain how she has navigated these challenges. Tune in for her approach on thoughtfully managing change and expectations within your community and inside of your organization.
Patrick and Nicole also discuss:
Why the comments are open on Zendeskâs knowledge base articles You canât tell people to contact support in Zendeskâs community Handing some conversations in the community off to other teamsBig Quotes
Going from scrappy to resourced as your community team grows and develops (04:36): â[While community was part of the support organization,] we were functioning very scrappy, very much like a startup team within a larger organization. ⊠Being within [the] integrated marketing organization let us connect to a lot more pieces and parts of the business, which as we built our strategy became increasingly important.â â@NicoleinMadison
Participate in the community you serve (14:20): âIâm always encouraging my team to [step] out of the ticket queue on a regular basis ⊠and just wander around [the community] and try to have that same experience as the end users to make sure weâre not missing anything, make sure that the queue isnât keeping us in just a transactional space.â â@NicoleinMadison
Why you canât tell people to contact support in the Zendesk community (24:58): âWe were getting a lot of people that were just saying, âYou should contact support for this,â and what it was doing was discouraging other users from jumping in and trying to help. A lot of these were questions that people could answer for one another, and ⊠it was short-circuiting the community conversation.â â@NicoleinMadison
The knowledge and value that community can offer (26:17): âYouâre going to gain so much more out of talking to somebody [in the community] who has done what you are trying to do, than someone who knows what functionality you should use to try to do it. Even the best support agent in the world probably hasnât done exactly the thing that youâre trying to do. Thereâs actually a real benefit to talking to other users.â â@NicoleinMadison
About Nicole SaundersIn over 12 years as a community professional, Nicole Saundersâ experience has ranged from consulting to launching communities for startups to currently leading the community team at Zendesk. Sheâs built communities across forums, social media, and offline. Her background also includes social media management, event production, communications, and freelance writing.
Passionate about building community both in her work and in life, Nicole engages in several volunteer efforts, including mentoring for the Wisconsin Womenâs Network, singing with the Philharmonic Chorus of Madison, and teaching dance fitness classes.
Related Links Nicole Saunders on LinkedIn Zendesk community Zendesk knowledge base Zendeskâs community code of conduct Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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Recently, community pro Danielle Maveal joined Community Signal to discuss her experiences reporting into the product organization at Burb. In this episode, weâre getting the opposite perspective from product leader Gitesh Gohel.
Gitesh and Patrick worked together at CNN, where community reported into product. And while the product and community that they were building were short lived, they both speak highly of their time working together. Gitesh describes creating a team atmosphere where each individualâs expertise was respected and given room to ladder into organizational goals, giving each person the opportunity to see the impact of their work. Patrick shares how this fostered trust in processes and created great experiences for the community and the brand.
If youâre debating a community role that reports into product, this conversation will give you insight into how that can be productive when the team has a strong foundation.
Patrick and Gitesh also discuss:
Giteshâs first experience managing community pros as a product leader Why community pros should be excited about reporting into product The successes and promise of CNN+âs Interview ClubBig Quotes
Making room for each individualâs expertise within your org (11:35): âOne thing which is really important, especially when it comes to collaboration, trusting each other, and being able to lean in on the skill set or experience that everyone brings to the table to accomplish a shared vision, is being able to create space and autonomy for folks to be able to do their jobs. One thing that we did at CNN, specifically working on Interview Club, was create goals which your team had by itself, but also having those goals be integrated into the success of the product itself.â â@giteshg
The background of a product professional (12:54): âMost people donât train to be a product manager or to have an expertise in product development. ⊠Most of my training came through experience. It was being part of a team who was building a product and being able to play a small role in it, being able to see what really good successful products look like, being able to see what do really healthy relationships look like across cross-functional teams.â â@giteshg
Is product the right org for community? (25:42): âWhen you make community part of product, [youâre saying] that your users are important, that the relationships that you develop with your users are important and positive, that you want to be able to not have a transactional relationship with your users, but actually one where you proactively engage, where youâre proactively identifying ways in which you have your users connected.â â@giteshg
Why should a community pro be excited about being part of the product org? (26:50): â[When community sits within product], in a way, youâre closest to the decision maker, and I think thatâs important. What you are able to do is influence product strategy and how you think about what you build and who youâre building for, and being able to bring the skills and expertise that you have directly into that conversation. [Product is] where you get to do the most fun stuff. Itâs where you get to say and explore different ideas that you want to try. Itâs a way in which you get the voice of the user closest to the way in which you think about what you end up doing.â â@giteshg
About Gitesh GohelGitesh Gohel has 14 years of experience as a product leader solving user problems in the startup, consumer, media, political, and civic tech space for organizations like CNN, Tumblr, Giphy, Facebook, Jumo, and Obama 08. He is currently the VP of product for Narwhal.
Related Links Gitesh Gohel on LinkedIn The Pros and Cons of Community Reporting to Product, Danielle Maveal on Community Signal Brigade Bassey Etim, who has been on multiple episodes of Community Signal Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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If youâre wondering how you can more actively foster safety and belonging for LGBTQ+ folks in your online community, thereâs precedent to learn and borrow from. In this episode of Community Signal, weâre joined by Samantha âVeniaâ Logan, the CEO and founder of Socially Constructed. Venia shares lessons from her decade of experience building community for LGBTQ+ individuals, which started when she began sharing her transition journey on YouTube.
Patrick and Venia discuss tools, policies, and practices that can help build queer friendly spaces over time. For example, how easy is it for someone to edit their profile information within your online community? What specific policies do you have in place to protect LGTBQ+ people? And a big one â how are others in your organization (outside of the community team) contributing to diversity and inclusion?
At this point you might be asking, âhow do I measure or communicate progress?â To this we ask, what are community-based outcomes that indicate someone feels safe contributing and like they belong? As Venia explains (15:23): âAs a person feels more and more comfortable self-disclosing, theyâre going to use more organic language, theyâre going to talk a lot more, their rate of inclusion is going to increase, but so will the length of their posts.â Work with your community to figure out which behaviors relate to their sense of inclusion and measure those over time.
Patrick and Venia also discuss:
Making pronouns part of everyday conversations Twitterâs policies and handling of a recent high-profile deadnaming case Being intentional about your metrics and KPIs (Key Performance Indicators)Big Quotes
Make space for everyone to share their pronouns in everyday conversation (08:48): âPronouns are not just a segment that youâre going to put on your profile. ⊠At every meeting, [if] you invite people to share their pronouns â cis, trans, doesnât matter â it essentially says, pervasively speaking, this is a queer-friendly, queer-safe space. ⊠Oftentimes, you want to implement these rules so that youâre not looking for explicit consent, youâre looking for implicit acceptance.â â@SamanthaVenia
Focus on tracking the behaviors that matter most to your community (14:23): â[With behavioral metrics], we need to return to a notion of simplicity, where we are recording things that people actually want us to listen to. When people engage in our online communities, they are leaving behind comments, behaviors, artifacts of conversation, and they want us to pay attention to those things, so why are we recording every single move they make in a community and not recording anything about the nature of the comment they left?â â@SamanthaVenia
Perfectly accurate data reporting does not exist, instead, try replicating your results (18:06): âInstead of worrying about gross amounts of accuracy in your data ⊠[measure] it again. The exact same thing that you did, in a second spot, in a second scope, just do it again, and again, and again. Once you repeat the same process and you have four corollary actions that are all telling you the same thing and one thatâs different, what is the resolution of your action? It just skyrocketed without you ever having to be accurate. Social science is not about causation, itâs about enough correlation to infer causation.â â@SamanthaVenia
Keep spaces safe by upholding the commitment to exclusivity (20:50): âDonât expand whatâs working for a safe space because keeping an exclusive space is what made that place safe. Instead, go over to the other place, reproduce your success, diversify it. The phrase that I use is âDonât expand, diversify.â Exclusivity breeds inclusivity.â â@SamanthaVenia
If youâre creating a space for everyone, youâre creating a space for no one (23:56): âWhen you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one, and you end up having no one because no one feels particularly special, or catered to, or welcome in those spaces.â â@patrickokeefe
Focus on your role of setting precedent, building momentum (24:59): âI will boil down any community management job from architect, coordinator, moderator, facilitator⊠it doesnât matter what you do in community. Your job is to set precedent, to do a thing, then build momentum for that thing until the community is doing it on its own.â â@SamanthaVenia
About Samantha âVeniaâ LoganIn 2010, Samantha âVeniaâ Logan transitioned from male to female and shared her entire 10-year journey on YouTube. Over the next decade, that decision snowballed into an active and healthy career in community management, diversity, education, and measurement in anonymous community health. In 2012, Venia founded RESCQU.NET, a nonprofit organization that simultaneously marketed to an invisible audience and catered to their anonymity. In 2017, she graduated with a degree focused on community management and became a full-stack marketer at DigitalMarketer.
For the past five years, Venia has built quantitative and qualitative data measurement tools for brand communities online. Through SociallyConstructed.Online, she is committed to helping businesses build robust, self-sustainable communities.
Related Links Samantha âVeniaâ Logan on LinkedIn Venia on YouTube Venia on Twitter RESCQU.NET SociallyConstructed.Online â3 Takeaways From a Decade Building Queer Communityâ 2022 Edelman Trust Barometer Chris Mercer Twitterâs hateful conduct policy Socially Constructedâs Discord and YouTube channel Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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Which team or leader does your community organization report into? And which would you like it to? Community teams can be successful as independent pillars or as part of other verticals, like product, ops, or marketing. In this episode of Community Signal, Danielle Maveal, the CCO (chief community officer) at Burb, shares how community professionals can be successful within a teamâs product organization.
All reporting structures have their pros and cons, but product and community share the job of âdeeply understand[ing] what the user wants and what their motivations are, and how to get them from point A to point B (2:17).â With a shared mandate, community and product teams that effectively partner can expand each otherâs influence and success.
No matter what team you report into, creating a foundation in which all teams have respect for each otherâs knowledge, experience, and processes is critical to every team, the business, and the community itself. Tune in to hear how Patrick and Danielle have fostered product relationships at Burb, CNN, Lyft, and more.
Danielle and Patrick also discuss:
The value that community pros can bring to product teams Learning and leveraging productâs processes How the OKR (objectives and key results) goal structure can be adapted by community pros Big QuotesCommunity can be very repetitive (7:37): â[Product] structures donât always work for a community team. Sometimes product teams are very much into launching features ⊠and then feature usage. Community is a lot of repetitive tasks or maintenance. These things are important. Itâs hard to fit under almost any team actually because we do have this kind of work where mostly, especially in tech, everyoneâs trying to launch something and get awesome feedback on it. Thatâs not always the case in community.â â@daniellexo
Product and community can partner to expand each orgâs influence and success (18:16): âHaving community in your product team is an opportunity for product leaders to increase their mandate and increase their influence. Itâs not just one way. Itâs not just community influencing product. Itâs increasing the influence of product within the wider org, too.â â@patrickokeefe
Approaching your product team with community feedback (22:35): âItâs really important to bring problems. Bring as much data as you can, make partners with other teams who are also getting this feedback and data. ⊠Have as much support as you can around this problem. You can even tell stories from the community about this problem, but just donât barge in with the solution that the community wants because itâs never going to get people on your side. Itâs not going to motivate them to want to work on that project.â â@daniellexo
Maintain a birdâs eye view of issues impacting your community (25:14): âFires are burning. People are fighting. People are upset. ⊠Thereâs a little community [forming] thatâs making this thing look like an emergency, and itâs not always an emergency. [Itâs] really important to have partnerships with other teams; data science, research, customer service, and make sure you have a really birdâs eye view of a story before you go to product or engineering, trust and safety, or legal with your requests.â â@daniellexo
Being on the defensive for product enhancements can rob you of creative opportunities (31:38): âWhen youâre spending a lot of your energy, time, and mind thinking up all [the counterpoints to expected criticisms,] the defensive positions, and backing up everything you say, thereâs little room to come to the table with someone and actually dream up something better. Usually, youâre just defending the bare minimum. If you can build that trust, and if you have a team that will trust you and work together to build that trust, you can use that time to be creative. Go leaps forward versus, âUgh, we just need to maintain the status quo, so I need to fight for this one little thing.'â â@daniellexo
Being a community person on a product team can make you better (32:16): âUltimately, I think that being on a product team can make, with some exceptions, you a better community person, and a broader community person.â â@patrickokeefe
About Danielle MavealDanielle Maveal is a serial founding team member. Sheâs been building community at Etsy, Airbnb, and Lyft for 15 years. Sheâs the chief community officer at Burb, a messaging, automation, and CRM toolset for community builders. Danielle also coaches community professionals and runs multiple support groups for community builders.
Related Links Danielle Maveal on Twitter Danielle Maveal on LinkedIn Burb Danielleâs past appearance on Community Signal Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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Do you manage an international community? How do you thoughtfully foster community across different continents, languages, and norms? Mercedes Oppon-Kusi, the community manager for Europe for the International Legal Technology Association, is working to do just that for their community of technology pros working at law firms.
With ILTA originating in the U.S., Mercedes shares the differences in behaviors between U.S. and Europe-based community members, and how she has approached expanding the European chapter to include more countries. Her strategy comes back to advice thatâs helpful no matter what stage your community is at: Overcome your biases as a community professional. Take time to learn the interests and challenges that impact your community members and scale thoughtfully.
As Mercedes puts it, â[Itâs] about building that practical knowledge of the market, and then figuring out where to go first.â
Plus:
How to help community members break through the âI donât have enough timeâ barrier Why U.S. members are more engaged than their European counterparts In-person events that help members feel bought-in to the ILTA communityBig Quotes
How ILTA community members help each other grow (6:45): âYou have the people that have been there and done it, you have people that are looking to branch into it, and you have the people that want to grow in it. Thatâs what our communities do. They help our members learn how to become better than they are.â â@M4Mercedes
Tech pros at U.S. law firms are more likely to share experiences (7:38): â[With] our membership pool in the U.S., you will not struggle to get a big firm to share. Theyâre proud of it. Theyâre like, âWeâve done this so well because weâre amazing, and this is how we did it,â but in the UK, theyâre decidedly more reserved. Itâs very hard to get the big firms to share about anything. I donât know what it is, but it does seem like people are nervous because they do not want to be seen as bragging, so it differs according to the geographies. Itâs not really by firm size.â â@M4Mercedes
Localizing matters to your community members (19:07): âA lot of our material has the word attorney, which doesnât exist in the UK. We have solicitors and barristers. ⊠There are little tweaks around the material and our language that weâve had to do in order to localize what weâre providing to [the UK] region. ⊠Itâs a big deal to people.â â@M4Mercedes
Growing the ILTA community and reaching new members (24:25): âThe challenge is finding your first [community members] that are going to be your champions. Once you have that, theyâre usually a good insight into the networks and what topics exist, and theyâre really good at introducing you to other individuals that might have similar interests.â â@M4Mercedes
About Mercedes Oppon-KusiMercedes Oppon-Kusi is the community manager for Europe for the International Legal Technology Association, a community for technology pros working at law firms.
Related Links Mercedes Oppon-Kusi on LinkedIn International Legal Technology Association (ILTA) The Chatham House Rule Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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WordPress, the popular open source CMS, powers a reported 43%+ of the web, including this site. It is backed by a global community of contributors who volunteer their time in all sorts of ways, from code to documentation to training. But did you know that many of the projectâs biggest contributors are sponsored by their employer to provide that time?
As we discussed with Brad Williams of WebDevStudios, the success of WordPress has created an economy around the software, growing and launching many businesses that serve the needs of its users, from personal blogs to major corporations. And one of the way those companies give back is through these sponsorships.
No company is more tied to WordPress than Automattic, the owners of WordPress.com, which was founded by the co-founder of WordPress, Matt Mullenweg. Hugh Lashbrooke is the head of community education at Automattic, which sponsors him for 40 hours a week, primarily to contribute to WordPressâ training team.
Hugh joins us on this episode to give us an inside look at these sponsorship arrangements and how they influence WordPress team dynamics. Plus:
What happens when a company stops sponsoring an employee to contribute to WordPress? The flexibility you need to work with volunteers on such a massive project âPublic by defaultâ as a standard of workOur Podcast is Made Possible ByâŠ
If you enjoy our show, please know that itâs only possible with the generous support of our sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform.
Big QuotesHow sponsored contributors bolstered WordPressâ training team (6:49): â[After COVID struck, the community team] realized that people werenât getting the training they normally get at events. ⊠It started off as an informal conversation with the existing training team, which wasnât huge in terms of numbers. ⊠We came together and now, we have this platform called Learn WordPress, which is where all of this content is housed. The idea for Learn WordPress existed in the training team before but because they were a small team ⊠they didnât have the resources to really get that going like they wanted. When we came on board, and because we are sponsored volunteers and we have more time and access to more resources, we were able to help them do more and now, weâre working alongside them very closely to make the platform better.â â@hlashbrooke
Automattic canât track the financial impact of contributors they sponsor (21:16): âAs WordPress improves, and becomes more popular, that helps Automattic improve profits and revenue. In our division, we donât track financial ROI at all. We donât have anything to track in that sense, so we donât. But our work in the open source project does benefit Automattic financially. ⊠As people get better with WordPress and WordPress becomes more popular, easier to use, and more well-known, Automatticâs business grows.â â@hlashbrooke
COVID led to volunteer drop-off (27:18): âCOVID had a big impact on [volunteers dropping off]. The lockdown, everyone being at home, and just the general stress of whatâs going on in the world. As we got to mid-to-late 2020, and then going all through 2021 and even now, a big dip in contributors. People werenât as committed as they were before. People who said they would be committed, they just slowly disappeared. There was just a trend that we saw, and it was very clearly because of the response to everything going on and the world being so stressful.â â@hlashbrooke
Allowing people to weigh-in can slow things down, but increase long-term engagement (35:40): âIf you make a decision about how weâre going to lay out the homepage of something, for example, if we say, âThis is what we doâ and we do it, then people look at it like, âOh, okay.â If youâve had 15 people in the community contribute their voice to it and give their input on it, theyâll be more interested, and they might be more interested in contributing further because theyâre like, âOh, my voice actually matters, so I want to contribute more.â Sure, it makes things take longer, but it means they generally stick around for longer because they can see the impact and the effect of their input.â â@hlashbrooke
About Hugh LashbrookeHugh Lashbrooke is a long-time community builder, currently serving as head of community education for the WordPress open source project, sponsored by Automattic. He leads a team that is building and managing an education program for the WordPress community.
Related Links Sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform Hughâs website Automattic, where Hugh is head of community education, sponsored to spend 40 hours per week contributing to WordPress Brad Williams of WebDevStudios on Community Signal Learn WordPress, an educational resource that Hughâs team works on A Dedicated Volunteer Program for the Training Team by Hugh, covering the âfaculty programâ idea Exploring WordPress Certifications by Hugh Hugh on Twitter Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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As the former director of community for HuffPost, where he led the management of an active, massive comment section, Tim McDonald has had a unique vantage point to the mass closure of news media comment sections. Patrick and Tim go in depth on that topic on this episode.
Toward the end, Tim shares what he believes will be his greatest community ROI story: He has stage IV colon cancer and is in need of a liver donor and could get a lot closer with your help. Please visit TimsLiver.com for more info.
Plus:
Why Tim believes he doesnât make a good soccer referee â or content moderator Keeping track of your community wins â both qualitative and quantitative Leveraging relationships with influential community members to get your message across, rather than being the face of the community yourselfOur Podcast is Made Possible ByâŠ
If you enjoy our show, please know that itâs only possible with the generous support of our sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform.
Big QuotesYou canât make everyone happy in moderation (10:56): âI would hate it when there was a close call [as a soccer referee] because I knew in my head what the call was but I knew if I looked at it objectively from one teamâs viewpoint and from the other teamâs viewpoint, half were going to be happy with me, half were going to be upset with me, and I wanted to make everybody happy. You canât do that in comment moderation, and you canât do that being a referee.â â@tamcdonald
Allowing influential members to do the talking (11:34): âI didnât need to get into the [HuffPost] community and be the face of the community. I could just have relationships with about a dozen of our community members who were very well respected and let them do the talking. But in exchange, I would take phone calls from them at home, at night, on the weekends. I would listen to them, I would understand what they were going through, but I would also be able to convey what, from a company standpoint, we were trying to achieve. When I did that, they started understanding.â â@tamcdonald
If we arenât going to invest in it, why spend so much effort? (19:08): âMy very last day [at HuffPost was] when we pushed the button and [switched to Facebook Comments]. Everybody looked at me like I was crazy, but I just told everybody, âIâve come up with solutions. Iâve come up with options. Nobody wants to pay for this. If we canât invest in it, and weâre not willing to invest in it, and weâre not going to generate any revenue off of it, why are we supporting it?â That was the end of it. Obviously, they still had comments. They still do have comments, but itâs nothing to what it was back when I was at HuffPost.â â@tamcdonald
Document your community wins (22:53): âThe subscriber growth of The New York Times is often cited ⊠by media folks and executives as an example of the D2C model, but I think people would do well to remember that The New York Times never closed their comments. ⊠People want that success of, âLook at all the people they have paying for news,â but they donât necessarily want to do that work that is moderating comments for 20 years to build a section that is befitting of The New York Times.â â@patrickokeefe
Document your community wins (30:02): âWe say [document your wins], but we donât necessarily always talk about the process through which we capture that, and so it fails. ⊠If itâs easy and itâs comprehensive, then youâre going to do it. Whereas if itâs manual and itâs slow, not only are you not going to do it, but when you donât do it, youâre going to not be able to access that information as easily.â â@patrickokeefe
Generous giving is the greatest community ROI (34:16): âWhen I find [a liver] donor through [the communities] Iâve built up over the years, that is going to be the greatest ROI because I donât think thereâs a price that we can put on our lives, and I donât think thereâs a price that we can put on the amount of giving that that would take from another human being.â â@tamcdonald
About Tim McDonaldTim McDonald is the community account manager for HomeRoom.club. He is the former director of community at HuffPost, founder of My Community Manager, and director of communications for Social Media Club Chicago. Tim works with organizations and individuals who are stuck to get them unstuck. He helps people connect with their voice and stories. He is also a speaker and facilitates workshops.
Recognizing how fear held him back, he has changed his relationship with fear and has used it to get unstuck and end a 17-year marriage, meet his life partner, move to a new city, twice, leave a toxic job, and currently looks at having stage IV metastasized colon cancer as a gift. Tim is in search of a liver donor with surgery planned around September 2022. If you think this could be you, please visit TimsLiver.com for more info.
Related Links Sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform Tim McDonald on Twitter Visit TimsLiver.com to help Tim find a liver donor HomeRoom.club My Community Manager Social Media Club Bassey Etim, many time guest on Community Signal When You Need Community To Save Your Life: The Story of Tim McDonald, by listener and Patreon supporter Jenny Weigle Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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What are the reasons why you would voluntarily end the interview process for a community role? If you give it some thought, youâll probably come up with some!
Ryan Arsenault and Patrick share real stories from their careers, giving the reasons why they decided against continuing to interview with certain companies, including some youâve heard of.
This leads to a conversation on the community opportunists, and how Web3 and NFT projects often fit into this category. What does it mean for your career if a rug pull happens on your NFT project? What responsibility do community industry players have in hyping these projects? After they remove the .eth from their handle, who is left holding the bag?
Patrick and Ryan also discuss:
The simple question Patrick asks recruiters to understand if what they are building is a community Using âcommunityâ as a manipulation tactic Why Web3 hype feels different from Web2 hypeOur Podcast is Made Possible ByâŠ
If you enjoy our show, please know that itâs only possible with the generous support of our sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform.
Big QuotesA case where Ryan ended the interview for a community role (1:39): â[I have become] more experienced in identifying the red flags that might not set me up for success in [a community] role. ⊠In one interview, the platform was purchased already. No community goals in mind. No strategy. How do you know if the platform is even going to meet your needs if you donât know what you need the community for yet?â â@RyanArsenault
Does the community talk to each other? (10:48): âI got to talking with the [recruiter for a community role], and I realized something. I said, âLet me stop you for a second. These people that are in this community, do they talk to one another?â She said, âNo.â I said, âOh okay, I understand. I have to say I donât think Iâm right for this.â ⊠Thatâs just a different role from what I do.â â@patrickokeefe
Does buying an NFT make it a community? (12:35): âTo me, the concept of buying an NFT, and then youâre part of a Discord community, doesnât make it a community. A communityâs built on trust and moderation.â â@RyanArsenault
Using âcommunityâ to keep people from leaving an NFT project (16:51): âWhen thereâs a rug pull ⊠whatever they were thinking they would get out of this NFT project, itâs gone now, or thereâs almost no chance. To use the term âcommunityâ as a way to try to make people feel better or to ensure they stay bought in with that project and donât sell ⊠it feels incredibly manipulative. ⊠âWeâre part of this community, weâre all in this together, hold on for dear life, weâre all going to make it,â all that stuff. Itâs all just social manipulation thatâs been going on forever.â â@patrickokeefe
About Ryan ArsenaultRyan Arsenault has been fascinated by the power of community as a member of online forums for two decades. He has managed communities for over 7 years, building strategy and scaling super user and advocacy programs, while establishing trust and lasting relationships. He has worked in pre- and post-IPO companies, and won a 2018 TheCR Connect Award for Best Recognition + Reward Program (for Mimecast community).
Related Links Sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform Ryan Arsenault on Twitter Intuitâs TurboTax, where Ryan is a contact community manager âI worked at Vistaprint â maybe youâve heard of them?,â via Patrick Jacob Silverman on Community Signal Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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Is speaking one-on-one with your community members part of your community strategy? For Tosin Abari, when building paid professional communities, itâs an integral part. His phone calls with community members provide an opportunity to reset the tone and remind each member of what they can learn, share, and achieve with their fellow community members.
Through this work, Tosin often finds that these one-on-one conversations with community members translate into their first forum post, or later down the line, becoming a community ambassador. What personal touches help you form deeper connections with your community members?
Whereâd this strategy come from? Tosin has also worked as a director of player development Vanderbilt Universityâs football team. He explains how his work building relationships with students and their parents, helping them start off on this new chapter of their lives, prepared him for work in community management.
Patrick and Tosin also discuss:
Tosinâs background in football Why Tosin started taking phone calls with members without mentioning it to Patrick, his manager at the time Where we focus our efforts in a world without vanity metricsOur Podcast is Made Possible ByâŠ
If you enjoy our show, please know that itâs only possible with the generous support of our sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform.
Big QuotesHelping members see the potential in the community (10:22): âThereâs so many people out there that have the same struggles that you do, or maybe something that youâve conquered, and you have expertise that you can share with someone else. ⊠[Each community member has] an opportunity to make a difference, or have someone else make a difference in their lives. They can make something beautiful happen.â -Tosin Abari
Having phone calls with members (12:35): âMost places Iâve been at, theyâre like, âNo, we donât have time [for phone calls with members].â ⊠We have X amount of members, we just got to do what we got to do through email orientation, and theyâll figure it out. That always gnawed at me a little bit, because these people are paying X amount of dollars for a membership, and we want to give them the best experience of their life. ⊠[These one-on-one calls can help] other people feel like theyâre not isolated, that theyâre in a place that holds space for them.â -Tosin Abari
Giving each member the space to feel heard (18:06): âI donât know how many times Iâve gotten nasty emails [and] Iâm like, âOh my God, this is going to be a very contentious call.â I let them talk [and] by the end of the conversation, theyâre like, âThank you for having this call with me. You calmed me down, and I feel so much better.â It was just because they wanted to be heard.â -Tosin Abari
Owning your work with your manager (25:50): âNever let [your manager] be surprised by bad news. If there is bad news, [they] should hear it from you first, before anyone else. Donât let [them] be surprised, because if [they are] surprised, itâs going to make matters worse. ⊠You should be the person who delivers the message.â â@patrickokeefe
About Tosin AbariTosin Abari (he/him/his) is a former collegiate football administrator turned motivated community manager and social media aficionado. With over 10 years of experience in community management and memberships, as well as front-end and back-end social media management, Tosin is extremely passionate in bringing people together with the goal of fostering authentic community.
Related Links Sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform Tosin Abari on LinkedIn Photos of Patrickâs son, Patrick James Kindred Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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Which community leaders helped you grow as a professional? Who in the industry do you study from or reference? On the last episode of Community Signal, our guest Mohamed Mohammed mentioned how his former manager, Joe Pishgar, helped him feel welcome in the industry. âYou belong hereâ were Joeâs encouraging words to Mohamed, and this phrase signifies an ethos that Joe brings to his role as chief community officer for VerticalScope.
Managing an organization of 27 full-time community pros, 30 contracted admins, and over 10,000 volunteer moderators across 1,200 sites, Joe understands the necessity of scale and delegation, but also realizes that delegating is not always as simple as it sounds. âThereâs competing thoughts in your head that surround the force of delegating. On the one hand, you donât have enough time to do it all. The time you spend in operational or in tactical, youâre not spending at the strategic, and no one else is going to spend time at the strategic level.â (13:18) Joe also explains that by delegating and creating space, we give our team members the opportunity to grow and experience community management for themselves.
How have leaders made space for you to grow as a community professional and how can you create that space for others?
Joe and Patrick also discuss:
The difference between having community volunteers and exploiting them The ebb and flow of hiring booms in the community industry Unifying strategy in an organization with multiple stakeholders and individual contributorsOur Podcast is Made Possible ByâŠ
If you enjoy our show, please know that itâs only possible with the generous support of our sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform.
Big QuotesGiving your team the space to grow (03:48): âGive [your team] as much space as possible within the quantity of trust that you can hand them, let them complete those tasks, learn the discipline, and develop in the discipline so that they develop that confidence. It comes with getting it right, having space to get it right, but also making sure that you as supervisor [are] around for when they bump into those really tricky questions.â â@Pishgar
Autonomy will help newer recruits to develop their confidence as community managers (14:45): âIf your name, clout, expertise, background, and experience is required for every single decision, youâre in trouble. Then youâve got a bunch of people who are basically your eyes and ears out there who arenât really taking things off of your plate as much as they need to be or as much as you need them to. ⊠Sometimes you have to go hands-off, even if it means embracing that fear that itâs not going to get done 100% to your spec.â â@Pishgar
What drives your sense of fulfillment as a community manager? (17:15): âWhen I know that communities under my wing are growing, that Iâm helping to make the world a better place, one individual forum member at a time, because they got an answer to their question, or they felt like they belonged, or there was something that they were shopping for that they got word of mouth on through a post that they found on one of our forums and they were only able to do that because the place was kept civil, that to me is fulfilling. That is my life work.â â@Pishgar
About Joe PishgarJoe Pishgar joined VerticalScope as its chief community officer in 2020. Joe is an 18+ year veteran of online community management. Prior to joining VerticalScope, he served as vice president Global Communities at Future plc, where he launched communities for PC Gamer, Space.com, Live Science, What Hi-Fi, and more. Previously, he served as director of community for Purch Inc., where he built the communities for Tomâs Hardware, Tomâs Guide, and AnandTech.
Related Links Sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform Joe Pishgar on Twitter Joe Pishgar on LinkedIn Joe Pishgarâs website VerticalScope Mohamed Mohammed on Community Signal Joe King on Community Signal Joe and Patrick shoutout the following community professionals: Rebecca Newton, Linda Carlson, Sanya Weathers, Valerie Massey, Troy Hewitt, and Gail Ann Williams Rebecca Newton on Community Signal Gail Ann Williams on Community Signal Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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This conversation with Mohamed Mohammed, a community manager and a PhD student studying deepfakes, is timely. Just last week, a deepfake emerged attempting to spread misinformation that the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, was announcing surrender to Russiaâs invasion. In that situation, preparation and rapid response helped minimize the spread of misinformation.
So, whatâs your community strategy against deepfakes? Mohamed recommends starting with learning from the information and experts in our field. He also shares an important reminder: As community professionals, while we may want to prevent all harms from happening, we simply canât. However, we can minimize the harm thatâs caused, and we can educate our community members to identify and flag suspicious behaviors. Just as many platforms adjusted their community guidelines and enforcement rubrics to prevent the spread of misinformation, deepfakes represent a new area for us to learn about and help our communities adapt.
Mohamed and Patrick also discuss:
Why science denial is banned in the Space.com community What good governance on deepfakes might look like Mohamedâs PhD on deepfakesOur Podcast is Made Possible ByâŠ
If you enjoy our show, please know that itâs only possible with the generous support of our sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform.
Big QuotesGround your moderation in your guidelines (6:13): âThere was no way to not iterate our [community] policies when the world shut down because of a global pandemic, when flat Earth or conspiracy theories found their way to the forums. When these things happen, you have to make changes. Otherwise ⊠we look shadowy. We start banning content or removing forum posts simply because we think itâs a bad thing. Even if everyone agrees with us, the perception is so important. The perception that weâre consistent within the scope of our guidelines is massive to being able to, for lack of a better term, keep the peace.â â@MMohammed_Comms
If your community has the same problems as a big social media platform, why should people stick around? (9:24): âIf youâre not consistent [in your community moderation,] and if you happen to have the same problems as bigger platforms, then whatâs the difference? Why am I investing all of this time as a user into this forum of yours when all of my efforts are being met with inconsistent approaches to keeping the place safe?â â@MMohammed_Comms
Antagonizing people to engage (11:30): âI donât think itâs a coincidence that [the antagonistic content we discourage as forum managers] is the same thing a brand whose KPI is engagement on Twitter will post just to get engagement and to antagonize someone into giving the rapid-fire answers that get people. Nothing brings engagement on a place and an echo chamber quite like a divisive question. Weâre trying to be the opposite.â â@MMohammed_Comms
In the words of Sam Gregory, âPrepare, donât panicâ (40:48): âDonât get scared about this apocalyptic vision of deep fakes ⊠[just] read as much as you can about them. I know itâs going to sound scary, but the more you understand them, the more you get comfortable with the fact that tools are advancing.â â@MMohammed_Comms
Shoutout to the supportive managers out there (46:01): âHaving a [supportive] manager is to me the difference between having this long career that can be fulfilling and rewarding and can help you feel better about yourself versus something where you have to build this foundation all by yourself.â â@MMohammed_Comms
About Mohamed MohammedMohamed Mohammed is a community manager at Future Plc, managing forums for brands such as PC Gamer and Space.com. He is also a PhD candidate at the QUEX Institute, researching the platform governance of deepfakes.
Related Links Sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform Mohamed Mohammed on LinkedIn Mohamed Mohammed on Twitter A Zelensky Deepfake Was Quickly Defeated. The Next One Might Not Be, via WIRED Future PLC PC Gamer Space.com QUEX Institute Amanda Petersen on Community Signal Truepic Communications Decency Act Sam Gregory of the WITNESS Media Lab Joe Pishgar Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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Online communities are can be essential for people impacted by illness. For those directly affected, their families, and support systems, these communities can provide a much needed place to share experiences, to vent, and to learn about different symptoms, treatments, and the intricacies of navigating the healthcare system. For our guest, Amanda Petersen, Planet Cancer provided such a community as she fought breast cancer in her early twenties.
Amanda has since continued to be an active contributor and moderator in online spaces dedicated to providing a safe and functional community for cancer survivors. In this conversation, she talks about the role that Planet Cancer played in her life in addition to why she felt motivated to start participating in r/breastcancer. The community exists and is functional because of its people ââ people like Amanda that help to moderate the space and people that are looking to connect with others and find support in their journeys.
Whether a moderator takes a break or community members sadly pass away or move on, the rules that they have created and the space that theyâve fostered will continue to provide a meaningful community for cancer survivors.
Amanda and Patrick also discuss:
Rules that are representative of the community they serve and protect The emotional labor of managing a community of care How Planet Cancer helped Amanda through her own journey with cancerOur Podcast is Made Possible ByâŠ
If you enjoy our show, please know that itâs only possible with the generous support of our sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform.
Big QuotesWhat makes a space for cancer survivors not functional? (12:27): â[After you have been in the] support community space for so long, there are certain things that you start IDing [that indicate] this is no longer a functional space for survivors. People flooding it when theyâre concerned about having cancer, while totally legitimate, will drive away your survivors. People asking for donation requests will drive away your survivors. People asking for research requests will drive away your survivors.â â@amandarhiann
The important roles of active moderators in a subreddit (15:46): âUnless the moderators are paying attention, Reddit can be a very unsafe place for many reasons. With strong moderator teams, it can be a safe place of healing.â â@amandarhiann
Why r/breastcancer does not allow pre-diagnosis posts (19:13): âDonât take advice about your health from someone at a grocery store, [and that also] applies to Reddit. [People] need to go to their doctor, and there are tons of pre-diagnosis resources out there that arenât going to force people who are actively going through treatment to answer questions they shouldnât have to answer.â â@amandarhiann
The emotional tax of research requests for cancer survivors (21:04): â[r/breastcancer] is a place for helping people navigate the complexities of breast cancer. Itâs not a place to help other people do their jobs better. Sure, if you want to come and read [or] do text analysis on Reddit, go ahead, itâs all public, but donât harm the people that weâre trying to help, even inadvertently.â â@amandarhiann
About Amanda PetersenAmanda Petersen is the program manager for community operations at MURAL. Prior to working in community, Amanda spent ten years of her career helping people who used challenging behaviors to communicate complex needs. In tandem, she moderated and managed online support communities for young adults with cancer.
Related Links Sponsor: Hivebrite, the community engagement platform Amanda Petersen on Twitter MURAL Community r/breastcancer Planet Cancer First Descents American Cancer Society Young Survival Coalition Breast Cancer Research Foundation Transcript View transcript on our website Your ThoughtsIf you have any thoughts on this episode that youâd like to share, please leave me a comment, send me an email or a tweet. If you enjoy the show, we would be so grateful if you spread the word and supported Community Signal on Patreon.
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